October 20, 2025 • 30 mins
In this “Ask Holly” edition of the EdUp Learning and Development podcast, Holly Owens shares her personal journey and insights on navigating career transitions, particularly for those moving into learning and development roles. She emphasizes the importance of understanding one's direction, taking actionable steps, and building a portfolio. Holly also discusses the significance of community engagement and maintaining a positive mindset while overcoming challenges like imposter syndrome. The episode concludes with practical advice on how to approach job searching and professional growth.
Ask Holly
Connect with Holly + Access Her Resources:
Grab your official EdUp L&D merch here:
___________________________________
Episode Sponsor: iSpring Solutions
🎙️ Huge thanks to our friends at iSpring Solutions for sponsoring this episode of the EdUp L&D podcast! 🙌
If you haven’t already, be sure to check out the iSpring Learning Exchange Community — a vibrant space for creators, educators, and L&D pros to connect and grow.
Grateful for the support and excited to see what our community creates
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, we're ispring, an international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than 60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online learning.
Our two flagship solutions are ispring Suite and ispring Learn
LMS. Ispring Suite is an intuitive,
all in one authoring tool for creating engaging e-learning
(00:23):
content, and ispringlearn is an innovative online training
platform for onboarding, upskilling, and certifying your
teams. We also provide tons of free
resources for aspiring and experienced e-learning
professionals, conduct weekly webinars with top industry
experts, and organize annual e-learning conferences,
(00:43):
challenges, and championships. We'd be happy to get to know you
and pick a solution that fits your needs best.
Go to www.icepringsolutions.com to learn more about us, download
our resources, and connect. Hello everyone, and welcome to
another fantastic episode of AddUp LMD.
(01:06):
My name is Holly Owens and I'm your host.
And today we're going to jump into another question, another
ask. But before we do do that, I want
to be a little bit real with you.
I have been kind of off the grida little bit in the past few
(01:27):
weeks. Unfortunately, on October 2nd,
my grandfather passed away from lung cancer at the age of 85.
Yes, he lived a wonderful life. You know, we're very grateful to
have him as long as we did, but it's still been very difficult
for me and my family. So that's been happening in the
background. And something on a happier note,
(01:50):
I got married to my partner Willon October 13th.
So that's a bright spot in what's all going on in the
world. You know how life is.
It doesn't just wait and put things in linear fashion.
But I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the
support of this fabulous community.
I sent out some emails and people responded with their
(02:12):
support and saying, you know, things like how sorry they were
and Congrats and take your time getting back into things.
So before I jump into today's episode, I just want to let you
know that I am human and as muchas learning and development and
instructional design give me excited about things, I
experience life as well. But I'm happy to be back with
(02:33):
you today to talk about this next question.
So let's dive into it. I think this probably should
have been the first episode of Ask Holly.
Remember that first episode is how do I stand out?
Because that's a question I get asked a lot during my webinars,
during in LinkedIn DMS. But I think this question is
(02:55):
definitely another one in the top five of questions that I get
asked. And just thinking about if you
are, for example, I love my transitioning teachers group.
And if you're sitting in a classroom right now and you're
like, you're just at your wit's end, you think you've outgrown
the role where you just want something different.
(03:16):
You want a better work life balance.
You want to be able to take yourexperience and education and
apply it. And I think this is a question
that people often start with, especially coming out of the
classroom or any sort of profession and thinking about
like, you know, what's the path?That's not the question, but
(03:37):
what do I do? So one of the things that I
often think about is that when you are transitioning out of a
role and into something else, a different career, a different
role, maybe it's linear, maybe it's not.
Maybe it's a promotion or you'rejust thinking about a change in
your life. The question that you normally
(04:00):
ask yourself is where do I start?
Where do I start? It feels like you're climbing a
mountain. That's you.
Summoning is unattainable, like when you're transitioning.
I can say that for a fact, especially most recently
(04:20):
transaction transitioning out offull time into freelancing.
So where do I start is the question that I want to address
today. One of the things that people
commonly do when they're transitioning out of roles and
looking for something and learning development is they're
like, I want to fix my resume. I want to apply for jobs right
(04:41):
away. I want no, you need to take a
step back because you're coming out, especially transitioning
teachers, you're coming out of aposition.
You have some emotions about that.
You're starting something new. You may be in territory that
you've never been in before. You're trying to figure out your
way through it. So before you even go anywhere,
(05:05):
where do you start? You need to figure out, number
one, where you're going, where you want to be.
Where are you going now? You're not going to get in the
car and drive somewhere where you don't have the directions
to, to a place you've never beenbefore.
I mean, you can get the maps outand stuff, but just saying
you're not going to just go drive off and try to figure it
out from there. You're going to want to have a
(05:26):
plan. So one of the things that people
should ask themselves is where do you want to be?
And transitioning to a role in learning and development is
something that you really have to think about because learning
and development, the sector is so huge.
It's huge. You have higher education, you
(05:47):
have corporate, you have government, you have freelance,
you have nonprofit, you have other different areas that
people get into that maybe learning and development
adjacent like edtech. So you have to figure out where
you want to be. So that comes with doing some
research about roles, about likewhat do you like?
(06:13):
What do you like in a role? Do you want it to be remote?
Do you want it to be something? What's your salary expectations?
Other things that you want to consider, like what like hours
you want to work. Maybe you want to go in the
freelance world because you wantto set your own hours.
Or maybe you want something that's more like 9 to 5 because
(06:34):
you like that sort of structure.Or maybe you want something
hybrid. So it feels very foggy at the
beginning and there's a lot of questions.
The question where do I start isa loaded question.
So you're telling yourself, I want to move into learning and
development. Learning and development itself
(06:54):
isn't just one job. It's an entire ecosystem.
Like I'm saying, you've got instructional designers building
online courses, you've got facilitators leading live
trainings, you've got LXDS or learning experience designers
focused on behavioral change in the learning experience.
And there's even other types of roles like in operations,
(07:17):
enablement, talent development, coaching.
I've done marketing, you know, this is just my list.
This is a list of everything. Consulting, content strategy,
learning, analytics. So figuring out where you want
to be. Really, you have to dive a
little bit deeper before you start filling out those
(07:38):
applications. So thinking about what kind of
work lights you up, What are youpassionate about?
Like I love doing this podcast. I love talking to you through
the screen. It's a little bit weird because
there's no audience, you know? Normally I have a guest, but I
love talking to people. I love sharing my experiences
(07:58):
and telling you what not to do and what I did in my path.
I love teaching others, so I still teach things like that.
You have to consider also too, do you want to create learning
experiences behind the scenes, like as an instructional
designer because you really are the stage hands that are setting
up the props for the learning experience.
(08:20):
Or do you like being in front ofpeople?
Do you like facilitating conversations?
Do you like maybe being the instructor in the room who is
talking about the course? May you know you're the trainer,
you're doing the train the trainer stuff, maybe virtually.
Think about it like this. Are you more creative,
(08:40):
analytical, strategic, or you more people centered?
This becomes your map. Once you know the direction
you're going, the next steps foryou actually start to make
sense. Like all too often I get people
asking me questions like I'm applying to 200 rolls or I've
(09:01):
applied to every single thing that's popped up on LinkedIn or
everything single thing that's popped up on Indeed and I
haven't got one interview. I tell people that's because you
can have 800 lottery tickets andyou can have 500 lottery tickets
or 50 lottery tickets and you still have the same chances of
(09:24):
winning. So putting multiple applications
in and praying and hoping that that gets you the role is
probably not a good strategy. So you need to know your
direction. So here's a little story.
When I was first thinking about transitioning out teaching, I
(09:47):
had no instructional design. It was there, but it really it
wasn't like a part of the mainstream.
Like we talked about it Lao talkabout everything now I just knew
that I love like creating lessons.
I love dead tech. I love teaching others.
I love like the feeling that youget when you're in a classroom
(10:08):
or the feeling that you get whenyou're in a learning experience.
You're like, that makes sense and you connect it to it to
something relevant in your life.So really I knew I figured out
over the years what I wanted to do just based off of of that
experience. So what you're already doing is
probably connected to learning, especially if you're in the
(10:32):
classroom. So that's where you're path
begins. So where do you start?
Where do I start? You have to find out where where
are you going? What direction are you taking?
OK, you can't just like just just go out there.
And I know, I know, I know, I know, I know people just want to
start applying. I know people want to update
(10:52):
their resume and you want to getjob, you want to do it really
fast and you want to, well, nothing as fast is happening
right now in this job market. It's very competitive.
You know, people talk about, we talked about the saturation with
Chelsea and it's not saturation so much as it that there's a lot
of people who are qualified for the roles that they're applying
for. So really it's important for you
(11:13):
to know what direction you're going in.
All right, so now think about that.
Where's your direction once you know that?
Once you got your direction, let's talk about action steps.
What are the the next things that you want to do?
You have your clarity, but if you don't move on it, you're
just going to be procrastinating.
(11:34):
And so let's let's talk about what you do next after you know
that direction. OK, so first action, I want you
to audit #1 audit your experience.
Grab a notebook. That's what I do.
I have a notebook sitting right here in front of me.
(11:56):
List every single time, like you've helped somebody learn or
you've done some sort of training, you've done mentoring,
you've built PowerPoints, you'vebuilt learning experiences,
you've hosted team meetings. Like all of this counts.
My microphone just keeps slidingdown.
All of this stuff counts. People think that they don't
need to count these things, but they do.
(12:17):
So these are your learning and development receipts.
So for example, when I was a teacher, I was training at the
Board of Education for teachers on how to use a certain Ed tech
that no longer exists. Well, student response systems
exist, but it's not that the classroom tech itself doesn't
exist the company. So that counts.
(12:38):
The next thing I want you to do so #1 audit your experience.
Go through and like think of allthe things that you did because
eventually these experiences aregoing to turn into how you
answer interview questions. These may may be things when
people ask you in an interview Like, well, tell me about a time
when these will come become yourexperiences then #2 I want you
(13:02):
to study. I want you to study the job
market. I've been posting jobs on
LinkedIn for about, I think I'm going to three years now.
And I have seen the way that jobs are posted and the
different things that people expect and the responsibilities.
And is it from remote, is it hybrid, the salary, all that
stuff like what text do you needto know?
(13:23):
What theories you need to know? What types of modeling do you
need to know? So just thinking about those
things, if you go to LinkedIn orif you go to Indeed or whatever
your favorite, go to skip Chelsea's site and look up
learning and development roles and just start reading the job
descriptions and or take a few links, put them in the ChatGPT
(13:44):
and say, give me a synopsis, Give me a summary of these job
descriptions. You're definitely going to start
notice season patterns. So you're going to see things
like Addy needle and analysis storyline, Ice spring, Canba,
Blooms taxonomy, Kirkpatrick stakeholder communication, ROI,
like a lot of different vocabulary things like what are
the expectations in the job market.
(14:07):
This is also going to help you find clarity in your direction
because you may not want to workin higher education or you may
want to work in higher educationbecause that might be a comfort
area. So just thinking about, you
know, do I want to be in corporate where it moves really
fast, or don't want to be more in education where it takes a
little bit longer for trends andthings to take place.
(14:31):
And we all know there's a lot ofred tape in education.
So thinking about all the different things that you're
seeing out there and then takingthat, and this goes into #3 I
want you to learn intentionally.Don't go taking all the
certifications. Don't go doing 10 million
LinkedIn learning courses or Udemy or Coursera going and
(14:56):
getting a degree thinking that that degree is going to land you
the role. It's a supporting actor and
landing the role. So don't go chasing all those
things. I know we want to check stuff
off the list. As humans, we're extrinsically
motivated. We, we definitely want to check
stuff off the list. We want to say that we have
(15:17):
this, we did this. Well, I'll tell you both of my
master's degrees, I have one in instructional technology and one
in distance learning. So if I really combine them,
that we need one instructional design, but they're not an
instructional design. Most of my instructional design
experience is the experience of the roles.
So thinking about it that way, Iknow people or like, I got to go
(15:40):
take this or I got to go do this.
And I want to caution you and tell you that you need to
exhaust the free resources firstbefore you start paying for
stuff, before you start paying for academies, before you start
paying for access to certain tools, before you start like
just jumping into all these different things.
Exhaust the free resources first.
(16:01):
So we've got your auditing, yourexperience, you're studying the
job market, and now you're learning intentionally.
If you want to design like you want to be an LXD or you want to
be an instructional designer andyou're thinking about the
technology and the technology definitely comes secondary to
the what you bring to the table as far as you a person, like
what are your unique learning experiences?
(16:23):
What have you done in the past so you can go learn articulate
or eyespring or different types of tools?
If you want to facilitate things, practice your
presentations, your coaching skills.
If you want to go Mike to strategy of OPS, learn about
(16:43):
data, how things are measured, how that impacts business
outcomes, how that you know whatwhat's important to people in
the business world when it comesto those things.
I'm sorry, my microphone is being fickle today.
All right, so we got, we've donethree out of your experience,
(17:04):
study the job market, learn intentionally.
And I'm looking through my noteshere so I don't forget anything
I wrote down. Join the L&D community if you're
not out there. This community is so fantastic.
We are community of former teachers.
We are community of helpers. We like to share information
because you know what, We never stopped learning.
(17:25):
At this point, I'm almost 20 years in and I still don't know
everything. There's a misconception that you
know everything at this point. I do not.
And it's shifting with AI, so I definitely don't know
everything. This community runs on
connections. Join spaces go out to LinkedIn.
If you don't have a LinkedIn profile, I'm going to tell you
(17:45):
right now you're going to go through those job applications
and you're going to see, they'regoing to ask you for a link to
your LinkedIn profile. That's that is absolutely
necessary in today's job market.Join spaces like I talked about,
like the ispring Learning Exchange, you know,
instructional designers in higher education is something I
run. If you're if you're thinking
about going to in higher education, other groups that are
fantastic out there, the instructional design central
(18:08):
IDCE learning industry, just go out there and join some
communities. Again, do some research, find
your favorite corner. Obviously, I love the add up L&D
community, this community, the people listen to this podcast
and I love sharing resources. So go out there, get connected,
ask questions, show your work, get feedback, make genuine
(18:30):
connections because it's so important, especially this job
market. Like we think that since we're
in a digital space, it doesn't matter who you know, it doesn't
matter who you know, it doesn't matter who you connect with.
It doesn't matter who is involved in your processor,
who's supporting you, whether that's a mentor or something
else. So join the L&D community if you
(18:52):
haven't already. All right, so let's go #1 audit
your experience #2 study the jobmarket #3 learn intentionally #4
join the L&D community and #5 start building your portfolio.
You notice I didn't say resume your portfolio, especially if
you're hold on my puppy is he's eating something.
(19:15):
OK, she stopped. So start building your mini
portfolio. If you're not, you know you're
not getting paid yet. Just start gathering those
artifacts, create something, getused to the design process, show
something that you're working through that process.
Portfolios are how you prove your capability.
(19:37):
You're not just talking about it.
I can tell you too, I'm blue in the face, all the different
things that I've done in articulator, eye spraying or
PowerPoint or online and canvas.I can tell you all the things,
but I have to prove it because you can't see it when I'm
talking about it. So you definitely need to start
thinking about what you want to put in your portfolio and start
(19:57):
gathering those artifacts. And if things aren't created
yet, that's OK. You can.
You can create stuff and I'm notgoing to.
I'm not saying you have to go out there and design a whole
e-learning experience, pick a module, A redesign a process,
something like, you know, of in a past position that you're like
this needed to be fixed. So I would use this instead of
this. Like, you know, one of the
(20:19):
things I did in Amazon is I set up a process for a ticketing
system so that we had different like lanes, it was like
waterfalls and stuff like that. You know, just working through
like, what were those going to be named and what happens at
each point of the process? So thinking about those things
too, it's not just an artifact. It's like, oh, I created this or
oh, I did this. It's like what shows your best
(20:42):
skills, your capabilities? All right, so going back, some
quick wins for you to get moving.
Number one is audit your experience.
Number 2 is study the job market#3 is learn intentionally for
join this community if you haven't already.
And then five, start thinking about your portfolio, building
(21:03):
out your portfolio. OK, So a lot of information,
where do you start? And we've, we've even got beyond
some of that. And I know probably at this
point some of you might be thinking, OK, Holly, I hear you,
but I still have no idea where to begin.
(21:24):
I need something to help me organize all this.
And this is where my teacher passion heart meets my LND like
strategist brain. And I made you something.
And it does cost money. It's $5.
It's the Unlock Your LND Career,the ultimate resource guide.
I have set for hours and sourcedand crowd sourced different
(21:47):
learning and development resources and put them in
different categories from peopleyou should follow to books you
should read, academies that are paid for, things that are free,
blogs. And the best part of is you pay
$5 and I update it monthly. Even more than that if I find a
great resource that I need to add to it.
So you have access for life. So I got the best free and paid
(22:11):
for resources, career paths and definitions, podcast books, like
I said, and communities where you know, people are hanging out
where you should be. Actually had somebody say
recently when you buy this living document, you're not just
getting a list, you're getting acompass for your L&D career.
Somebody said that I was like, whoa.
Because you know, when you really work and stuff, it's like
(22:33):
you don't know the impact. But when somebody says it has
the impact that you intended to have, it's awesome.
So I'm going to have everything in the show notes.
If you want that resource and there's a few other ones out
there, do some free ones on my gum Rd.
So I'll share that link in the show notes.
And I'm I'm not here selling yousomething.
I'm really genuinely putting hours into these things and
(22:55):
making sure the content and the resources are there to help you.
All right, let's talk about the mindset because I think that's
something I talk about the mindset and how that has to
shift. It's really difficult.
I want people to know that you're not.
People always think of it like you're starting over.
(23:19):
I want you to think of it like this.
You're building forward, you're moving forward.
So whether you've been in teaching, managing, customer
support, nursing, retail, all your skills like matter.
I don't like it when I hear the teachers leave their teaching
experience off the resume or a recruiter or a resume reviewer
tells you to do that. I don't like that.
I think that that's wrong. That's not what it should be.
(23:43):
In these experiences, you've taught, you've coached, you've
designed, you've communicated, you've solved all kinds of
problems. Your next job is to translate
that into L&D language. All right, let's let's give a
few examples. So if you're a trainer, for
example, you didn't just train new hires, you developed and you
delivered an onboarding program that improved time to
(24:05):
productivity or time to proficiency.
The onboarding experience. You didn't just run meetings,
you facilitated knowledge sharing sessions that increased
team performance by X. Use some data in there.
You see how the language shifts,reframes the value there.
(24:27):
This is really when people startto see your capabilities and
this is this helps you stand outtoo.
So those doors really do start to open.
I have it. I'm sure all of you have it.
I'm talking about imposter syndrome.
And my friend, if you asked Betty, Betty Danowitz on that,
asked if you asked Betty podcastdid a whole thing on imposter
(24:49):
syndrome. So if you want to learn more
about that, go check out her stuff and I'll include that in
the show notes too. Don't let imposter syndrome stop
you. Every single personality, we all
started somewhere. Like My Portfolio is not very
shiny. It really, you know, a lot of my
stuff is proprietary. So I really can't share with the
role. So nobody woke up one day and
(25:11):
said I want to be a senior learning Stratus just when I
grow up and they have everythingready to go.
Like they just know it before they even get to the role.
That's not the case. What happens is they've learned,
they practice, and they're building the momentum.
And this is exactly what I want you to do.
(25:31):
So don't let that imposter syndrome stop you.
Think about translating your experiences into the LND
language and get, hey, how to help you.
It can help you. I mean, it's not perfect, but it
can help you. All right, so let's wrap up with
things like what's next? What's what's going to happen to
(25:55):
you next? What's what's the road ahead
look like? Here is what I definitely 100%
recommend. Spend about 20 minutes a day
doing like job stuff, doing likeresearch, doing like, you know,
just being out there. Don't make it a full time job
because you're going to get burnout.
I promise. I've seen this happen through
(26:18):
some of my coaching clients and I've seen this seen this happen
more so recently because of the competitiveness of the job
market. So just 20 minutes a day, maybe
spend like an hour a week on revising your professional
resources. And definitely go back to the
last Ask Holly episode when I talked about what do you do to
(26:40):
stand out? Because things I mentioned there
are definitely going to help youstand out.
And as you're revising portfolios or resumes and
professional resources. So go back to that and once a
month maybe try to connect with somebody.
It'd be fun if they were. You can connect in person.
I've met a lot of people, a couple people in my area.
Or you can connect online if they have the availability,
(27:01):
availability to do like a 15 minute chat.
Some people don't have that availability.
So try to connect. That's it, 20 minutes, one hour
a week, every couple weeks. Try to connect with people, be
out there on LinkedIn World. Do that for like say 90 days and
(27:22):
see how your confidence changes.You really don't need to do
everything. You just have to do some things.
We're all not doing everything if I'm doing one thing well.
I think this was said recently on Pop Culture World of Kim
Kardashian said it on the call your dad, call her whatever that
(27:45):
podcast is. If I'm doing something really
well, there's something else that's not getting the
attention. So you don't have to do
everything. It's OK.
All right, here is what I want you to do for the next week.
After you're done listening to this episode and going through
the resources I share in the show notes, write down three
things. The kind of work that lights you
up that you're passionate about.The skills are the moments in
(28:10):
your career that helped you learn something new.
One next step you'll take in this next week whenever you're
listening to this podcast. This could be later in the
winter. This could be at the beginning
of the year. This could be mid year.
Not Sunday. Not when you're ready.
Like what are you going to do this week?
Because remember, you can't build a new path if you if you
(28:30):
don't know where you're going, you have no idea where do I
start? You got to know where you're
going. I think it's important to
reflect on who you are and whereyou want to be as you're doing
these different things. So just remember that you're
worth it that you are more than just a resume.
You're more than just these portfolio things or these
resources that you're sharing. And I thank you for joining me
(28:50):
for another episode of Ask Holly.
If this episode gave you a spark, go grab the Unlock Your
L&D career guide. It's going to be your road map.
Make sure you subscribe because we're going to definitely going
to be doing more of these. You can submit questions.
I'll have a link in the show notes to that because we want
(29:11):
to, I want to make sure that youfeel prepared to step into this
role. And I don't want you to make the
same mistakes I did. OK?
So thank you so much for joining, joining me for this
episode. Where do I start?
And I'm always here to support you.
So connect with me on LinkedIn World and I'll see you next time
(29:31):
for another episode. Take care.
That's a wrap for today's episode of the Ed Up Learning
and Development podcast. I hope you picked up some
inspiration, strategies, and maybe even a spark of motivation
to take with you on your own journey.
If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to
(29:53):
subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode.
And while you're there, go aheadand give us a five star rating.
It really helps more people in the L&D community find us and
join the conversation. Until next time, remember my
motto, Speak it, build it, land it.
Thanks for listening and I'll catch you in the next episode.
(30:16):
Hi, we're Ice Spring, an international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than 60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online learning.
Our two flagship solutions are Ice Spring Suite and Ice Spring
Learn LMS. Ice Spring Suite is an intuitive
all in one authoring tool for creating engaging e-learning
content, while Ice Spring Learn is an innovative online training
(30:37):
platform for onboarding, upskilling and certifying your
teams. We'd be happy to get to know you
and pick a solution that fits your needs best.
Go to www.ispringsolutions.com to learn more about us and
connect.
Hi, we're ispring, an international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than 60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online learning.
Our two flagship solutions are ispring Suite and ispring Learn
LMS. Ispring Suite is an intuitive,
all in one authoring tool for creating engaging e-learning
(00:23):
content, and ispringlearn is an innovative online training
platform for onboarding, upskilling, and certifying your
teams. We also provide tons of free
resources for aspiring and experienced e-learning
professionals, conduct weekly webinars with top industry
experts, and organize annual e-learning conferences,
(00:43):
challenges, and championships. We'd be happy to get to know you
and pick a solution that fits your needs best.
Go to www.icepringsolutions.com to learn more about us, download
our resources, and connect. Hello everyone, and welcome to
another fantastic episode of AddUp LMD.
(01:06):
My name is Holly Owens and I'm your host.
And today we're going to jump into another question, another
ask. But before we do do that, I want
to be a little bit real with you.
I have been kind of off the grida little bit in the past few
(01:27):
weeks. Unfortunately, on October 2nd,
my grandfather passed away from lung cancer at the age of 85.
Yes, he lived a wonderful life. You know, we're very grateful to
have him as long as we did, but it's still been very difficult
for me and my family. So that's been happening in the
background. And something on a happier note,
(01:50):
I got married to my partner Willon October 13th.
So that's a bright spot in what's all going on in the
world. You know how life is.
It doesn't just wait and put things in linear fashion.
But I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the
support of this fabulous community.
I sent out some emails and people responded with their
(02:12):
support and saying, you know, things like how sorry they were
and Congrats and take your time getting back into things.
So before I jump into today's episode, I just want to let you
know that I am human and as muchas learning and development and
instructional design give me excited about things, I
experience life as well. But I'm happy to be back with
(02:33):
you today to talk about this next question.
So let's dive into it. I think this probably should
have been the first episode of Ask Holly.
Remember that first episode is how do I stand out?
Because that's a question I get asked a lot during my webinars,
during in LinkedIn DMS. But I think this question is
(02:55):
definitely another one in the top five of questions that I get
asked. And just thinking about if you
are, for example, I love my transitioning teachers group.
And if you're sitting in a classroom right now and you're
like, you're just at your wit's end, you think you've outgrown
the role where you just want something different.
(03:16):
You want a better work life balance.
You want to be able to take yourexperience and education and
apply it. And I think this is a question
that people often start with, especially coming out of the
classroom or any sort of profession and thinking about
like, you know, what's the path?That's not the question, but
(03:37):
what do I do? So one of the things that I
often think about is that when you are transitioning out of a
role and into something else, a different career, a different
role, maybe it's linear, maybe it's not.
Maybe it's a promotion or you'rejust thinking about a change in
your life. The question that you normally
(04:00):
ask yourself is where do I start?
Where do I start? It feels like you're climbing a
mountain. That's you.
Summoning is unattainable, like when you're transitioning.
I can say that for a fact, especially most recently
(04:20):
transaction transitioning out offull time into freelancing.
So where do I start is the question that I want to address
today. One of the things that people
commonly do when they're transitioning out of roles and
looking for something and learning development is they're
like, I want to fix my resume. I want to apply for jobs right
(04:41):
away. I want no, you need to take a
step back because you're coming out, especially transitioning
teachers, you're coming out of aposition.
You have some emotions about that.
You're starting something new. You may be in territory that
you've never been in before. You're trying to figure out your
way through it. So before you even go anywhere,
(05:05):
where do you start? You need to figure out, number
one, where you're going, where you want to be.
Where are you going now? You're not going to get in the
car and drive somewhere where you don't have the directions
to, to a place you've never beenbefore.
I mean, you can get the maps outand stuff, but just saying
you're not going to just go drive off and try to figure it
out from there. You're going to want to have a
(05:26):
plan. So one of the things that people
should ask themselves is where do you want to be?
And transitioning to a role in learning and development is
something that you really have to think about because learning
and development, the sector is so huge.
It's huge. You have higher education, you
(05:47):
have corporate, you have government, you have freelance,
you have nonprofit, you have other different areas that
people get into that maybe learning and development
adjacent like edtech. So you have to figure out where
you want to be. So that comes with doing some
research about roles, about likewhat do you like?
(06:13):
What do you like in a role? Do you want it to be remote?
Do you want it to be something? What's your salary expectations?
Other things that you want to consider, like what like hours
you want to work. Maybe you want to go in the
freelance world because you wantto set your own hours.
Or maybe you want something that's more like 9 to 5 because
(06:34):
you like that sort of structure.Or maybe you want something
hybrid. So it feels very foggy at the
beginning and there's a lot of questions.
The question where do I start isa loaded question.
So you're telling yourself, I want to move into learning and
development. Learning and development itself
(06:54):
isn't just one job. It's an entire ecosystem.
Like I'm saying, you've got instructional designers building
online courses, you've got facilitators leading live
trainings, you've got LXDS or learning experience designers
focused on behavioral change in the learning experience.
And there's even other types of roles like in operations,
(07:17):
enablement, talent development, coaching.
I've done marketing, you know, this is just my list.
This is a list of everything. Consulting, content strategy,
learning, analytics. So figuring out where you want
to be. Really, you have to dive a
little bit deeper before you start filling out those
(07:38):
applications. So thinking about what kind of
work lights you up, What are youpassionate about?
Like I love doing this podcast. I love talking to you through
the screen. It's a little bit weird because
there's no audience, you know? Normally I have a guest, but I
love talking to people. I love sharing my experiences
(07:58):
and telling you what not to do and what I did in my path.
I love teaching others, so I still teach things like that.
You have to consider also too, do you want to create learning
experiences behind the scenes, like as an instructional
designer because you really are the stage hands that are setting
up the props for the learning experience.
(08:20):
Or do you like being in front ofpeople?
Do you like facilitating conversations?
Do you like maybe being the instructor in the room who is
talking about the course? May you know you're the trainer,
you're doing the train the trainer stuff, maybe virtually.
Think about it like this. Are you more creative,
(08:40):
analytical, strategic, or you more people centered?
This becomes your map. Once you know the direction
you're going, the next steps foryou actually start to make
sense. Like all too often I get people
asking me questions like I'm applying to 200 rolls or I've
(09:01):
applied to every single thing that's popped up on LinkedIn or
everything single thing that's popped up on Indeed and I
haven't got one interview. I tell people that's because you
can have 800 lottery tickets andyou can have 500 lottery tickets
or 50 lottery tickets and you still have the same chances of
(09:24):
winning. So putting multiple applications
in and praying and hoping that that gets you the role is
probably not a good strategy. So you need to know your
direction. So here's a little story.
When I was first thinking about transitioning out teaching, I
(09:47):
had no instructional design. It was there, but it really it
wasn't like a part of the mainstream.
Like we talked about it Lao talkabout everything now I just knew
that I love like creating lessons.
I love dead tech. I love teaching others.
I love like the feeling that youget when you're in a classroom
(10:08):
or the feeling that you get whenyou're in a learning experience.
You're like, that makes sense and you connect it to it to
something relevant in your life.So really I knew I figured out
over the years what I wanted to do just based off of of that
experience. So what you're already doing is
probably connected to learning, especially if you're in the
(10:32):
classroom. So that's where you're path
begins. So where do you start?
Where do I start? You have to find out where where
are you going? What direction are you taking?
OK, you can't just like just just go out there.
And I know, I know, I know, I know, I know people just want to
start applying. I know people want to update
(10:52):
their resume and you want to getjob, you want to do it really
fast and you want to, well, nothing as fast is happening
right now in this job market. It's very competitive.
You know, people talk about, we talked about the saturation with
Chelsea and it's not saturation so much as it that there's a lot
of people who are qualified for the roles that they're applying
for. So really it's important for you
(11:13):
to know what direction you're going in.
All right, so now think about that.
Where's your direction once you know that?
Once you got your direction, let's talk about action steps.
What are the the next things that you want to do?
You have your clarity, but if you don't move on it, you're
just going to be procrastinating.
(11:34):
And so let's let's talk about what you do next after you know
that direction. OK, so first action, I want you
to audit #1 audit your experience.
Grab a notebook. That's what I do.
I have a notebook sitting right here in front of me.
(11:56):
List every single time, like you've helped somebody learn or
you've done some sort of training, you've done mentoring,
you've built PowerPoints, you'vebuilt learning experiences,
you've hosted team meetings. Like all of this counts.
My microphone just keeps slidingdown.
All of this stuff counts. People think that they don't
need to count these things, but they do.
(12:17):
So these are your learning and development receipts.
So for example, when I was a teacher, I was training at the
Board of Education for teachers on how to use a certain Ed tech
that no longer exists. Well, student response systems
exist, but it's not that the classroom tech itself doesn't
exist the company. So that counts.
(12:38):
The next thing I want you to do so #1 audit your experience.
Go through and like think of allthe things that you did because
eventually these experiences aregoing to turn into how you
answer interview questions. These may may be things when
people ask you in an interview Like, well, tell me about a time
when these will come become yourexperiences then #2 I want you
(13:02):
to study. I want you to study the job
market. I've been posting jobs on
LinkedIn for about, I think I'm going to three years now.
And I have seen the way that jobs are posted and the
different things that people expect and the responsibilities.
And is it from remote, is it hybrid, the salary, all that
stuff like what text do you needto know?
(13:23):
What theories you need to know? What types of modeling do you
need to know? So just thinking about those
things, if you go to LinkedIn orif you go to Indeed or whatever
your favorite, go to skip Chelsea's site and look up
learning and development roles and just start reading the job
descriptions and or take a few links, put them in the ChatGPT
(13:44):
and say, give me a synopsis, Give me a summary of these job
descriptions. You're definitely going to start
notice season patterns. So you're going to see things
like Addy needle and analysis storyline, Ice spring, Canba,
Blooms taxonomy, Kirkpatrick stakeholder communication, ROI,
like a lot of different vocabulary things like what are
the expectations in the job market.
(14:07):
This is also going to help you find clarity in your direction
because you may not want to workin higher education or you may
want to work in higher educationbecause that might be a comfort
area. So just thinking about, you
know, do I want to be in corporate where it moves really
fast, or don't want to be more in education where it takes a
little bit longer for trends andthings to take place.
(14:31):
And we all know there's a lot ofred tape in education.
So thinking about all the different things that you're
seeing out there and then takingthat, and this goes into #3 I
want you to learn intentionally.Don't go taking all the
certifications. Don't go doing 10 million
LinkedIn learning courses or Udemy or Coursera going and
(14:56):
getting a degree thinking that that degree is going to land you
the role. It's a supporting actor and
landing the role. So don't go chasing all those
things. I know we want to check stuff
off the list. As humans, we're extrinsically
motivated. We, we definitely want to check
stuff off the list. We want to say that we have
(15:17):
this, we did this. Well, I'll tell you both of my
master's degrees, I have one in instructional technology and one
in distance learning. So if I really combine them,
that we need one instructional design, but they're not an
instructional design. Most of my instructional design
experience is the experience of the roles.
So thinking about it that way, Iknow people or like, I got to go
(15:40):
take this or I got to go do this.
And I want to caution you and tell you that you need to
exhaust the free resources firstbefore you start paying for
stuff, before you start paying for academies, before you start
paying for access to certain tools, before you start like
just jumping into all these different things.
Exhaust the free resources first.
(16:01):
So we've got your auditing, yourexperience, you're studying the
job market, and now you're learning intentionally.
If you want to design like you want to be an LXD or you want to
be an instructional designer andyou're thinking about the
technology and the technology definitely comes secondary to
the what you bring to the table as far as you a person, like
what are your unique learning experiences?
(16:23):
What have you done in the past so you can go learn articulate
or eyespring or different types of tools?
If you want to facilitate things, practice your
presentations, your coaching skills.
If you want to go Mike to strategy of OPS, learn about
(16:43):
data, how things are measured, how that impacts business
outcomes, how that you know whatwhat's important to people in
the business world when it comesto those things.
I'm sorry, my microphone is being fickle today.
All right, so we got, we've donethree out of your experience,
(17:04):
study the job market, learn intentionally.
And I'm looking through my noteshere so I don't forget anything
I wrote down. Join the L&D community if you're
not out there. This community is so fantastic.
We are community of former teachers.
We are community of helpers. We like to share information
because you know what, We never stopped learning.
(17:25):
At this point, I'm almost 20 years in and I still don't know
everything. There's a misconception that you
know everything at this point. I do not.
And it's shifting with AI, so I definitely don't know
everything. This community runs on
connections. Join spaces go out to LinkedIn.
If you don't have a LinkedIn profile, I'm going to tell you
(17:45):
right now you're going to go through those job applications
and you're going to see, they'regoing to ask you for a link to
your LinkedIn profile. That's that is absolutely
necessary in today's job market.Join spaces like I talked about,
like the ispring Learning Exchange, you know,
instructional designers in higher education is something I
run. If you're if you're thinking
about going to in higher education, other groups that are
fantastic out there, the instructional design central
(18:08):
IDCE learning industry, just go out there and join some
communities. Again, do some research, find
your favorite corner. Obviously, I love the add up L&D
community, this community, the people listen to this podcast
and I love sharing resources. So go out there, get connected,
ask questions, show your work, get feedback, make genuine
(18:30):
connections because it's so important, especially this job
market. Like we think that since we're
in a digital space, it doesn't matter who you know, it doesn't
matter who you know, it doesn't matter who you connect with.
It doesn't matter who is involved in your processor,
who's supporting you, whether that's a mentor or something
else. So join the L&D community if you
(18:52):
haven't already. All right, so let's go #1 audit
your experience #2 study the jobmarket #3 learn intentionally #4
join the L&D community and #5 start building your portfolio.
You notice I didn't say resume your portfolio, especially if
you're hold on my puppy is he's eating something.
(19:15):
OK, she stopped. So start building your mini
portfolio. If you're not, you know you're
not getting paid yet. Just start gathering those
artifacts, create something, getused to the design process, show
something that you're working through that process.
Portfolios are how you prove your capability.
(19:37):
You're not just talking about it.
I can tell you too, I'm blue in the face, all the different
things that I've done in articulator, eye spraying or
PowerPoint or online and canvas.I can tell you all the things,
but I have to prove it because you can't see it when I'm
talking about it. So you definitely need to start
thinking about what you want to put in your portfolio and start
(19:57):
gathering those artifacts. And if things aren't created
yet, that's OK. You can.
You can create stuff and I'm notgoing to.
I'm not saying you have to go out there and design a whole
e-learning experience, pick a module, A redesign a process,
something like, you know, of in a past position that you're like
this needed to be fixed. So I would use this instead of
this. Like, you know, one of the
(20:19):
things I did in Amazon is I set up a process for a ticketing
system so that we had different like lanes, it was like
waterfalls and stuff like that. You know, just working through
like, what were those going to be named and what happens at
each point of the process? So thinking about those things
too, it's not just an artifact. It's like, oh, I created this or
oh, I did this. It's like what shows your best
(20:42):
skills, your capabilities? All right, so going back, some
quick wins for you to get moving.
Number one is audit your experience.
Number 2 is study the job market#3 is learn intentionally for
join this community if you haven't already.
And then five, start thinking about your portfolio, building
(21:03):
out your portfolio. OK, So a lot of information,
where do you start? And we've, we've even got beyond
some of that. And I know probably at this
point some of you might be thinking, OK, Holly, I hear you,
but I still have no idea where to begin.
(21:24):
I need something to help me organize all this.
And this is where my teacher passion heart meets my LND like
strategist brain. And I made you something.
And it does cost money. It's $5.
It's the Unlock Your LND Career,the ultimate resource guide.
I have set for hours and sourcedand crowd sourced different
(21:47):
learning and development resources and put them in
different categories from peopleyou should follow to books you
should read, academies that are paid for, things that are free,
blogs. And the best part of is you pay
$5 and I update it monthly. Even more than that if I find a
great resource that I need to add to it.
So you have access for life. So I got the best free and paid
(22:11):
for resources, career paths and definitions, podcast books, like
I said, and communities where you know, people are hanging out
where you should be. Actually had somebody say
recently when you buy this living document, you're not just
getting a list, you're getting acompass for your L&D career.
Somebody said that I was like, whoa.
Because you know, when you really work and stuff, it's like
(22:33):
you don't know the impact. But when somebody says it has
the impact that you intended to have, it's awesome.
So I'm going to have everything in the show notes.
If you want that resource and there's a few other ones out
there, do some free ones on my gum Rd.
So I'll share that link in the show notes.
And I'm I'm not here selling yousomething.
I'm really genuinely putting hours into these things and
(22:55):
making sure the content and the resources are there to help you.
All right, let's talk about the mindset because I think that's
something I talk about the mindset and how that has to
shift. It's really difficult.
I want people to know that you're not.
People always think of it like you're starting over.
(23:19):
I want you to think of it like this.
You're building forward, you're moving forward.
So whether you've been in teaching, managing, customer
support, nursing, retail, all your skills like matter.
I don't like it when I hear the teachers leave their teaching
experience off the resume or a recruiter or a resume reviewer
tells you to do that. I don't like that.
I think that that's wrong. That's not what it should be.
(23:43):
In these experiences, you've taught, you've coached, you've
designed, you've communicated, you've solved all kinds of
problems. Your next job is to translate
that into L&D language. All right, let's let's give a
few examples. So if you're a trainer, for
example, you didn't just train new hires, you developed and you
delivered an onboarding program that improved time to
(24:05):
productivity or time to proficiency.
The onboarding experience. You didn't just run meetings,
you facilitated knowledge sharing sessions that increased
team performance by X. Use some data in there.
You see how the language shifts,reframes the value there.
(24:27):
This is really when people startto see your capabilities and
this is this helps you stand outtoo.
So those doors really do start to open.
I have it. I'm sure all of you have it.
I'm talking about imposter syndrome.
And my friend, if you asked Betty, Betty Danowitz on that,
asked if you asked Betty podcastdid a whole thing on imposter
(24:49):
syndrome. So if you want to learn more
about that, go check out her stuff and I'll include that in
the show notes too. Don't let imposter syndrome stop
you. Every single personality, we all
started somewhere. Like My Portfolio is not very
shiny. It really, you know, a lot of my
stuff is proprietary. So I really can't share with the
role. So nobody woke up one day and
(25:11):
said I want to be a senior learning Stratus just when I
grow up and they have everythingready to go.
Like they just know it before they even get to the role.
That's not the case. What happens is they've learned,
they practice, and they're building the momentum.
And this is exactly what I want you to do.
(25:31):
So don't let that imposter syndrome stop you.
Think about translating your experiences into the LND
language and get, hey, how to help you.
It can help you. I mean, it's not perfect, but it
can help you. All right, so let's wrap up with
things like what's next? What's what's going to happen to
(25:55):
you next? What's what's the road ahead
look like? Here is what I definitely 100%
recommend. Spend about 20 minutes a day
doing like job stuff, doing likeresearch, doing like, you know,
just being out there. Don't make it a full time job
because you're going to get burnout.
I promise. I've seen this happen through
(26:18):
some of my coaching clients and I've seen this seen this happen
more so recently because of the competitiveness of the job
market. So just 20 minutes a day, maybe
spend like an hour a week on revising your professional
resources. And definitely go back to the
last Ask Holly episode when I talked about what do you do to
(26:40):
stand out? Because things I mentioned there
are definitely going to help youstand out.
And as you're revising portfolios or resumes and
professional resources. So go back to that and once a
month maybe try to connect with somebody.
It'd be fun if they were. You can connect in person.
I've met a lot of people, a couple people in my area.
Or you can connect online if they have the availability,
(27:01):
availability to do like a 15 minute chat.
Some people don't have that availability.
So try to connect. That's it, 20 minutes, one hour
a week, every couple weeks. Try to connect with people, be
out there on LinkedIn World. Do that for like say 90 days and
(27:22):
see how your confidence changes.You really don't need to do
everything. You just have to do some things.
We're all not doing everything if I'm doing one thing well.
I think this was said recently on Pop Culture World of Kim
Kardashian said it on the call your dad, call her whatever that
(27:45):
podcast is. If I'm doing something really
well, there's something else that's not getting the
attention. So you don't have to do
everything. It's OK.
All right, here is what I want you to do for the next week.
After you're done listening to this episode and going through
the resources I share in the show notes, write down three
things. The kind of work that lights you
up that you're passionate about.The skills are the moments in
(28:10):
your career that helped you learn something new.
One next step you'll take in this next week whenever you're
listening to this podcast. This could be later in the
winter. This could be at the beginning
of the year. This could be mid year.
Not Sunday. Not when you're ready.
Like what are you going to do this week?
Because remember, you can't build a new path if you if you
(28:30):
don't know where you're going, you have no idea where do I
start? You got to know where you're
going. I think it's important to
reflect on who you are and whereyou want to be as you're doing
these different things. So just remember that you're
worth it that you are more than just a resume.
You're more than just these portfolio things or these
resources that you're sharing. And I thank you for joining me
(28:50):
for another episode of Ask Holly.
If this episode gave you a spark, go grab the Unlock Your
L&D career guide. It's going to be your road map.
Make sure you subscribe because we're going to definitely going
to be doing more of these. You can submit questions.
I'll have a link in the show notes to that because we want
(29:11):
to, I want to make sure that youfeel prepared to step into this
role. And I don't want you to make the
same mistakes I did. OK?
So thank you so much for joining, joining me for this
episode. Where do I start?
And I'm always here to support you.
So connect with me on LinkedIn World and I'll see you next time
(29:31):
for another episode. Take care.
That's a wrap for today's episode of the Ed Up Learning
and Development podcast. I hope you picked up some
inspiration, strategies, and maybe even a spark of motivation
to take with you on your own journey.
If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to
(29:53):
subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode.
And while you're there, go aheadand give us a five star rating.
It really helps more people in the L&D community find us and
join the conversation. Until next time, remember my
motto, Speak it, build it, land it.
Thanks for listening and I'll catch you in the next episode.
(30:16):
Hi, we're Ice Spring, an international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than 60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online learning.
Our two flagship solutions are Ice Spring Suite and Ice Spring
Learn LMS. Ice Spring Suite is an intuitive
all in one authoring tool for creating engaging e-learning
content, while Ice Spring Learn is an innovative online training
(30:37):
platform for onboarding, upskilling and certifying your
teams. We'd be happy to get to know you
and pick a solution that fits your needs best.
Go to www.ispringsolutions.com to learn more about us and
connect.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.