October 24, 2024 • 49 mins
The baffling 1986 disappearance of 10-year-old Juan Pedro Martinez Gomez in Spain is considered by Interpol as one of the strangest disappearance cases in Europe. It begins with a horrific truck accident involving sulphuric acid in the remote Somosierra Mountain Pass but quickly spirals into a maze of unanswered questions and eerie theories. From suspicious sightings of a mysterious foreign couple in a white Nissan van to trace amounts of heroin found in the truck, each clue adds another layer to this enduring enigma. Eyewitness accounts, potential drug smuggling, and possible abductions are meticulously examined, with investigators retracing the family's last steps and exploring every twist. Tune in to uncover the chilling details and conflicting reports that continue to perplex investigators and the public decades later.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elena (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Eerie
Side Podcast with your host,Elena, Sophia, and D.
(00:43):
Alright, before we get into theshow, we would appreciate it if
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(01:05):
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Alright guys, are we ready toget into the episode today?
D (01:20):
Yes.
Elena (01:21):
So this episode is very interesting and I think you guys
are going to just be very likeperplexed on this case.
But I literally like did all myresearch and I wrote this up
yesterday, but I feel like Ihave this whole episode like
already memorized and I can gooff of like memory just because
of how fascinating it was inthis case and the sheer amount
of research I've done sincefinding it.
Sophia (01:42):
I'm glad we're recording it because you've been so
excited to share this with us.
Yeah, it's I can tell it's beenbuilding
Elena (01:47):
I also just want to say this case Takes place in Spain.
It's like an older one So thereis a little bit of lack of
information sometimes and a lotof the resources are in Spanish.
So just know that and just bearwith me when there's like a few
different, conflicting reports.
The disappearance of Juan PedroMartinez remains one of Spain's
most baffling and chillingunsolved mysteries.
(02:09):
Interpol even considered this tobe one of the strangest missing
person cases in Europe.
On June 25th, 1986, theenergetic 10 year old boy
vanished without a tracefollowing a horrific truck On a
remote mountain near theSomosierra community of Madrid,
Spain, the circumstancessurrounding his disappearance
(02:31):
have left investigators and thepublic grappling for answers for
over three decades.
On the morning of June 25th,1986, Juan's father, Andres
Martinez Navarro, and hismother, Carmen Gomez, set off on
a trip in a tank carrying 20,000 liters of sulfuric acid.
Sophia (02:51):
They were driving a
Elena (02:52):
tank?
Yeah.
Sophia (02:52):
Full of Why?
Elena (02:54):
he was a trucker, so there was just part of his
Sophia (02:57):
Well, that's like a disaster waiting to happen.
Elena (02:59):
So just keep that in mind.
20, 000 liters, that's like over5, 000 so gallons of sulfuric
acid.
So just keep that in mind.
The father, Andreas, was a truckdriver and brought the family
along as a reward for Juanearning good grades.
Andreas made a deal with Juanthat if he earned good grades in
(03:19):
school, he could tag along, andthat's exactly what Juan did.
He studied hard, he worked forit, and he got the good grades.
Now, I believe the mother justkind of tagged along to watch
over Juan while the fatherdrove, but, not really sure.
There are some other theoriesthat we'll get into later,
regardless, they took off fortheir journey from Fuente Alamo
(03:41):
de Murica to Bilbao, andunfortunately, on that June
25th, in the early mornings,Andreas truck, which was
carrying that 20, 000 liters ofsulfuric acid, was seen
traveling around 140 kilometersper hour, which is about 85
miles per hour, on the SomiseraMountain Pass, where it collided
(04:03):
with an oncoming vehicle.
Sophia (04:05):
85 miles per hour, he's driving a truck of sulfuric acid
on mountain roads?
Elena (04:10):
Yeah, on the Somisera Mountain Pass.
Sophia (04:15):
If anyone's listening to this and have, they have not
driven in mountains wherethere's so many turns, it is
scary.
Elena (04:21):
This is exactly that, like I'm gonna show you guys a
picture of kind of what it lookslike.
It's not the best,
D (04:30):
Did he suffer a heart attack or something?
Elena (04:32):
Well, we're gonna get into what is going on in a
little bit.
This kind of gives a little bitof like how windy the roads
were, and believe me when I saythis is like, this is a very
dangerous, route to take, and itis very well known for being a
very dangerous, path because ofthe mountains, the sharp turns,
(04:55):
all that stuff.
So it is known to be not thesafest, especially when you're
driving fast.
D (05:02):
This does not look bad.
I've been on the worst road.
Elena (05:04):
Well, no, it's not the best picture, but this is,
Sophia (05:07):
No, if you're not paying attention and you swerve off,
you're off a cliff.
Yeah.
D (05:10):
This is not that bad.
No, it's There's worsemountains.
There's worse.
Yeah, there is.
Don't get me wrong, but 85 miles
Sophia (05:15):
per hour and you're driving a truck and it has
sulfuric acid?
Right.
Elena (05:18):
These pictures don't really do it justice, but it is
It does have real bad twists andturns and very steep edges.
D (05:27):
Okay, this is Where you have to be careful in some of sense.
Elena (05:30):
Yeah.
The second picture kind of showsyou that there is, uh, a good
amount of like steep drops inand sharp turns that you have to
be aware of.
D (05:37):
Right.
Elena (05:38):
So, the accident damaged the tanker that contained the
sulfuric acid, and it began toleak.
Leading up to the crash, thetruck was seen rapidly speeding
past other cars, almost goingover the edge as it passed each
vehicle, and even hitting theside mirror of another vehicle
while passing.
The truck also knocked anothercar completely off the road and
(05:59):
then fatally crashed head onwith another truck.
Obviously, there were witnessesseeing this crazy behavior and
emergency services were alreadynotified before, you know, the
truck even crashed.
So, when the truck did crash,responders were already on their
way.
When they first arrived, theychecked on the parents, but
there wasn't anything they coulddo.
(06:20):
They immediately died from theimpact.
Sophia (06:22):
Oh, wow.
Elena (06:23):
There wasn't anything that they could do.
D (06:25):
Wait, the accident, did they fall off a cliff?
Elena (06:28):
Yeah, so they didn't like fall completely off, but they
did fall into a ditch.
So the truck did get knockedover and it fell into a ditch
but when they did go to check,there was only Andres and
Carmen.
There was no evidence of Juanand so they had no idea that
Juan was even in the truck tobegin with.
Sophia (06:49):
That's what I was wondering.
Elena (06:51):
So obviously they begin to deal with the sulfuric acid
that was contaminating the areaand so that's what immediately
they focused on.
They were trying to contain thearea as there is nature,
wildlife all around.
Sophia (07:04):
This might be obvious, but what are some of the
negative effects of thatsulfuric acid?
filling in the air towards likethe other people nearby in the
wildlife and animals?
Elena (07:13):
You know, I'm not too sure.
I, do you know that when Ilistened to it and read
research, that they were sayingthat they were afraid that the
acid would get into the water,like the lakes and stuff.
So I'm not sure to what extentit would damage.
I do know that, Sulfuric aciddoes have the ability to kind of
burn skin.
(07:34):
So it could definitely damage,the grass and the trees and,
contaminate the water.
And I don't know if they wereusing that water supply for
themselves.
Like people drank from thoselike streams that were there,
but.
They were definitely trying tocontain the area.
And they were successful inpreventing it from, affecting
the nearby area.
Now, once the scene was secureand safe, they began to remove
(07:56):
the bodies that were in thetruck.
They removed Andreas and Carmen,but they were unaware that Juan
was previously in the truck.
So they weren't looking for him.
It wasn't until later, thatCarmen's mother was contacted
that day to tell her that herdaughter and her son in law had
died.
And that's when Carmen's motherasked, Well, what about Juan?
Like, is Juan okay?
(08:16):
Is he still alive?
That's when they learned thatJuan was traveling with them.
And they were shocked.
So they immediately beganlooking for Juan, and they did
notice that there were signsthat he was there.
the truck with them in thecabin.
They found items such as,children's clothes, toys,
children's cassette tapes.
I've also heard reports that,the sole of his shoe was found.
(08:37):
It was clear that Juan had beenwith them.
But, where is it now?
They began searching thesurrounding areas with dogs,
motorbikes, horses, andhelicopters.
And they even lifted the truckto see if maybe he was thrown
underneath it somehow, but hewas nowhere to be found.
Now, this case and crash isbecoming more and more
perplexing to the investigatorsand what they initially
(08:59):
expected.
There's this weird crash with alittle boy missing and no leads.
So the investigators beganretracing the family steps and
talking to witnesses.
While talking to witnesses, oneof the witnesses that was in the
car that Andreas had managed torun off the road had said that
he saw a foreign looking couplepull up in a white Nissan van to
(09:20):
assist him.
The man and the blonde woman,and I heard reports that both
were blonde or that the man hada mustache, so A man and a
blonde woman who claimed to be anurse.
They were like all white.
The woman claimed to be a nurseor some sort of doctor and they
were wearing like white labcoats.
So the guy initially justassumed like it was some sort of
like doctor or nurse who wastrying to like help the
(09:42):
situation, but.
Sophia (09:44):
This is after the crash?
Elena (09:45):
Right, yeah, right after the crash.
D (09:47):
Wait a second, two people in lab coats appear at the crash?
Elena (09:52):
Mm hmm, in a white Nissan van.
D (09:54):
And they appear at the crash where the truck is, not where
they hit other people.
Elena (10:00):
I guess it was kind of both like they were trailing a
little bit behind.
So they kind of pulled up tothat car and then eventually
they went to the crash.
Now, I don't know how farbetween that car and the truck
is.
I don't know if that personcould see the truck or not.
But at some point they weredriving behind.
Went to the car, and then latergoes to the truck, and I'll get
(10:21):
into that in a second.
D (10:22):
And they're two foreign individuals?
Elena (10:24):
Yeah, and they knew that based on the blonde hair,
because they're from Spain, andthey're like, Nordic looking,
they were from some sort ofNordic country.
D (10:33):
Do they speak
Elena (10:35):
I'm not sure.
I think they spoke English, butI'm not sure.
D (10:39):
There's two individuals driving around with lab coats
on.
Elena (10:41):
Mm hmm.
D (10:42):
Okay,
Sophia (10:43):
That's suspicious.
Elena (10:44):
it's interesting.
Yeah, two other witnesses saw awhite van pull up to the truck
after it had crashed and thesame pair of people got out and
took a package from the cabin.
Now what that package was hasnever been confirmed, but there
are theories surrounding it andI'll get into that a little
later.
So, all of this is becomingvery, very strange to
(11:07):
investigators.
There's multiple reports of thiscouple being at the scene, but
fleeing before first responderscould get there.
They claimed that they weretrying to help, and yet didn't
seem to help at all.
So the investigators turned tothe cabin of the truck where the
parents were.
And that's where they foundtrace amounts of heroin and some
reports cocaine as well.
(11:29):
Wow.
Now neither Andreas or Carmenhad criminal records or were
involved with illegal drugs.
But the family did say thatAndreas was getting threats for
weeks from supposed mafias whowanted him to transport drugs
for them.
Also, the decision to bring Juanalong, some people speculate,
may have been motivated more bythe couple's attempts to protect
(11:53):
him than for Juan getting goodgrades.
Now, this theory doesn't quitealign with the fact that the
family didn't own the truckAndreas was So, I mean, the
Heroin could have been fromsomeone else theoretically if
other people had driven thattruck and like I said, there's
not any Proof that he had anyties.
(12:13):
Like he said there was threatsthat he was getting supposedly
from the family members Butnothing that could be proven.
Sophia (12:21):
He was getting threats from mafia, right?
And why how did they find thathim if they we even know?
Elena (12:26):
well, this area is pretty well known by truckers for Like
cartel and like mafias and whowill kind of threaten truck
drivers into transporting drugsfor them.
It's also like a big thing, formafias to kind of target truck
drivers because they have thatability to transport stuff
(12:49):
sometimes within the country andsometimes outside of the
country.
D (12:51):
Let me understand, he's just a truck driver, I mean he does
not own the truck himself,correct?
Elena (12:57):
Correct, but I think this was like the truck that he would
repeatedly use, but I don't knowif during this time anyone else
was using the truck, so I'm notcertain because this was a while
ago, and there's not always likeclear answers to some of these.
D (13:14):
My other question is, they brought Juan with to protect the
dad?
Elena (13:20):
Andres claimed that he brought Juan along because he
got good grades and that thiswas a deal made.
But some speculate that maybeAndres wanted to bring Carmen
and Juan along to protect themfrom whoever was threatening
him.
Maybe he thought that they weregoing to come to their home and
do something because Andresdidn't want to transport drugs,
(13:41):
but we don't know.
D (13:41):
What about the theory that he brought them along to protect
him.
Mafia doesn't like to attackfamilies.
Yeah.
True.
So if they thought he had hisfamily with, he may have thought
he was safe.
Elena (13:53):
That's true too, but I also, I'm not sure if he would
want to bring his kids with himif he thought something could
happen.
Because I don't know for sure ifthis was like mafia, drug,
cartel, so I'm not 100 percentsure, but it is possible.
Upon further investigation, likeI said, there were, trace
amounts of heroin.
But, while they were looking atthe truck, everything was
(14:14):
working fine.
Because initially they thought,well, it's gotta be the brakes,
right?
There's gotta be something wrongbecause he was driving downhill,
85 miles per hour, crashed headon.
To another truck.
So they thought the brakes, butafter multiple specialists and
mechanics looked over thebrakes, just to make sure it was
clear that they were workingfine.
(14:34):
However, the tachometer on thetruck did show that it made 12
very short stops, lasting nomore than a few seconds to the
longest being 30 seconds.
And he never left the road,meaning he.
And his truck was driving onthis road, stopping completely,
and then starting up again.
(14:55):
At first, it was considered,there might have been a, like a
traffic jam, or some sort ofaccident.
But after talking to witnessesthat were there that day on the
road, and there at the crash,there was No traffic.
So these stops that were takenacross eight miles when the
family had stopped for breakfasttill they had crashed, it was
getting strange.
Now, I also want to point outthat the waiter at the
(15:18):
restaurant said that he saw thefamily, including Juan, get into
the cabin of the truck.
So we have a witness that putsJuan back into the truck, so we
know, at least, after they leftthe, that Juan went back into
the cabin, which is like thefront of the truck.
Sophia (15:36):
I was wondering if he was even there that day.
So that told me that he wasthere at some point.
Elena (15:41):
Yeah, there were multiple witnesses during that day
because they left the nightbefore and then they were
driving through the night intothe early morning.
So I think.
witnesses and stuff were able tocollaborate that yes, Juan was
on this trip.
So investigators thought thatmaybe Andres was trying to
communicate with another vehicleor avoid one.
But nothing was ever confirmed.
Because remember, he's makingthese weird 12 stops, and he has
(16:04):
a truck, so keep in mind, thesehuge tanker trucks, cannot stop
and start up easily.
So it's very, very strange thaton this road, he's just taking
these 12 random stops.
Sophia (16:17):
Do they say, like, how far in between one stop to
another it was, and how often itwas?
Elena (16:23):
No, I'm not sure, but I think this all happened within a
span of an hour or two.
So it wasn't like within an houror so, like it wasn't that long.
But what's clear is thatsometimes you would stop for a
few seconds, the longest beingabout 30 seconds.
Where does this leave theinvestigators?
Well, with no further leads andnobody to really help them, the
(16:47):
investigation hits a halt.
There's a truck that was drivingerratically that eventually
crashed, there's sulfuric acidspilling everywhere, there's a
missing child, multipleeyewitness accounts, seeing a
strange pair showing up afterthe crash, and trace amounts of
heroin found in the cabin.
With no new leads to go on,theories started to form.
It was initially thought thatJuan's body could have been
(17:09):
completely dissolved by theacid.
There's some holes with thistheory.
One, Andreas and Carmen werefound with the acid on them, and
they weren't dissolved.
And two, further tests wereeventually ran, and it was clear
that the boy would have had tohave been completely submerged
for a very long time Just to getthe soft tissues dissolved, it
(17:30):
would have had to take about 24hours of him being dissolved and
for the sulfuric acid todissolve bones, he would have
had to been submerged for aboutfive days.
And even then, hair, nails,teeth that still would have been
left behind.
To have him been, dissolved bythe sulfuric acid just wasn't a
possible theory in this case.
(17:51):
So, where is Juan?
Given the condition that theparents were in, it's unlikely
that he just walked away andeven if he did, he wouldn't have
been able to get very far.
An investigator searched thesurrounding area to see if Juan
was there, but they foundnothing.
That does bring me to anothertheory, which is some speculate
that Juan was in the cabinduring the crash.
(18:11):
And then when, the crashhappened, he hit his head, maybe
got some sort of amnesia,doesn't really remember where he
was, kept going, and theneventually somehow, I don't
know, that theory to me doesn'treally hold a lot because,
although it's possible hewould've had severe injuries, I
would assume, his parents werekilled upon impact, so you would
(18:32):
have to assume that he had somepretty bad injuries, if he was
in that crash.
I doubt he would have been ableto get far.
It's possible someone picked himup.
Sophia (18:40):
Well, my question is, did it look like something had
gone through the windshield?
Elena (18:45):
I'm not sure, but they did search the surrounding area
of the truck, so if he hadgotten thrown out of the vehicle
somewhere, they would have foundhim.
Sophia (18:54):
Well, you'd think.
How about his parents?
Were they wearing theirseatbelts?
Elena (18:58):
I think so.
I mean, cause they didn't getthrown out.
They were in their cabin.
I will say the parents weresomewhat damaged, obviously by
the sulfuric acid, but they werestill, fully intact.
Another theory is that, Juansomehow survived the crash and
went to the water, maybe to washoff the sulfuric acid, and
(19:20):
succumbed to his injuries, orthe water just washed him away,
but they did look in the, thenearby lakes, and they did
search them, and they didn'tfind him anywhere.
And, when I tell you, thissearch that they did for Juan
was very, very, in depth.
they were saying they were,like, looking at every bush,
every corner, every tree, theywere looking for Juan.
(19:41):
So, I feel like, If he wassomewhere in the woods or the
surrounding area, they wouldhave seen him.
Another theory is that thiswhole thing was drug related.
After the heroin and possiblycocaine was found, police
thought that it was possible.
Another vehicle, that was partof the smuggling ring was
following Andreas and that hecrashed because of the nerves or
(20:04):
that he was attempting to followanother car that had kidnapped
Juan.
Now, this theory does seem verypossible because the tachometer
readings and why Andreas wasdriving so radically.
But again, there's no evidence,I would say, that this the
family was ever involved in drugsmuggling or anything.
(20:24):
But it is possible that, thosetwelve frequent stops could have
been, Andreas noticing thatthere was some suspicious van
following him.
And so maybe thought, Oh,they're going to try and stop us
and, try to force us to smuggledrugs.
So maybe he tried to stop to letthe, the van go or the car go
(20:44):
frequently.
And then eventually during thelast stop, which I believe
lasted like 30 seconds, that'swhen they came in.
That's when they, swarmed thetruck, maybe possibly a
gunpoint, forced one out, forcedthe package into the car and
said, you will transport this towherever you, we need you to go,
(21:04):
and then you will get your sonback, which is possible.
And it does explain a lot ofthings like the stops and of
course why he was driving sofrantically because no one in
their right mind would everdrive like that.
With their wife and child in thecar.
It's possible he wasn't in hisright mind, right?
I mean, his child just gotkidnapped.
(21:26):
And it's also possible that somepeople theorize that maybe he
was having some sort of medicalemergency, which you did talk
about, mom.
Now this would explain Thefrequent stops, like maybe he
was feeling something with hisheart, something was going on
and he wasn't too sure.
And then he just kept going.
He's like, okay, no, I'm feelingbetter.
And then eventually when he wasdriving, he passed out.
(21:46):
And then the erratic driving wasCarmen trying to swerve out of
the way.
It doesn't explain Juan beingmissing.
And I feel like they probablywould have been able to tell
with an autopsy or something ifhe had a heart attack.
I don't know if they did anautopsy or what that would show,
but I feel like that probablycould be debunked pretty easily.
Sophia (22:07):
I have a lot of holes with that theory you just
mentioned.
Elena (22:09):
Yeah, there is definitely a lot of holes and I don't
really Believe that theory but.
Sophia (22:14):
You said you kind of did I thought no?
Elena (22:16):
The the heart attack?
Sophia (22:18):
No, not the heart attack the fact that you think there it
was drug related and thatsomebody kidnapped him I don't
if somebody's like trying tokidnap you or your child.
Why are you gonna stop so manytimes?
After the first time in this cardoesn't go ahead of you.
Why you keep stopping?
Elena (22:32):
It is weird I mean it could also be that he was trying
to communicate with another car.
We don't really know.
There could have been anothercar that was making them stop.
It was braking, brake checkingthem.
We don't know.
And it is, everything in thattheory, for me, Aligns except
the frequent stops.
I mean it does explain like that30 second stop where Juan could
have been taken But those otherstops it is a weird thing, but I
(22:55):
feel like to me The drug theoryholds a little bit more weight
than some of the other theories.
Sophia (23:00):
What I don't understand is if they're already
transporting these drugs in acar, they're transporting them
themselves.
Why go hand a package of drugsto somebody in a truck?
Elena (23:10):
Because I think the trucks can go unnoticed more.
And I think that's why becausethis is an issue from what I
read that trucks can sometimesbe threatened to transport
goods, drugs on this specificroad, on this path.
Sophia (23:27):
That they can be threatened?
Elena (23:28):
Yeah, it is something that happens.
Sophia (23:30):
I don't know, I suppose maybe they were trying to get
the truck to stop and that's whyhe was stopping But nobody else
saw that on the road?
Elena (23:38):
There's no witnesses that could say like, yeah I saw him
stopping, this is why, or whynot, but, no.
Personally, like I said, I thinkit's possible that somehow along
the way Juan was kidnapped andthe parents were frantically
trying to catch up with whoevertook their son and unfortunately
crashed.
Then the people who took Juan,the couple in the white van,
(24:02):
went back to the truck toretrieve something.
Rather that be the drugs orsomething else and then left.
There's also finally I do wantto say this theory this last
theory doesn't hold a lot ofweight for me But there is
another theory that states thatWhoever that couple was in the
van pulled up trying to help sawJuan and maybe took him in hopes
(24:25):
of Going to like driving to ahospital to save him and then
along the way he died in the carAnd he succumbed to his injuries
and maybe they had a criminalpast and they didn't want to
explain that and everything butpersonally I don't know.
That's like it's a little weirdthat someone would just You know
Take this kid, and then try andsave them, but then not, and
(24:46):
just discard the body.
It's also possible that this wascompletely random, and some
people were looking to kidnap achild.
They saw this crash, and theytook the opportunity, which is
very rare.
What are the odds that you'redriving on this windy road
looking to kidnap a kid, andthen eventually a car, a truck
(25:06):
crashes?
We're not looking, but they knowthey want to kidnap a kid, and
then They see this opportunityand they take it.
It's very, very rare.
Sophia (25:14):
I think, I still think it's possible that Juan could
have just wandered off andgotten confused too.
D (25:19):
Here's a question about Juan wandering off.
If he did do that, the thing ishe had sulfuric acid burns on
him.
So, if he was lost, he wouldprobably be wandering trying to
find maybe water or something toease his pain.
My first question would be howlong after the accident did
someone go to see what's goingon?
Elena (25:39):
I would say pretty quickly because there was a
witness, like I said, that sawthat van pull up and I don't
think they saw anyone else exitthe cabin since that van pulled
up.
I guess it's possible.
Juan might have walked outbefore that couple pulled up,
and I don't know if thosewitnesses that saw the van pull
(25:59):
up to the truck were therebeforehand, but what I do know
is that they saw them.
It's possible he could have leftbefore then, but after that I
would assume those people werestill watching the crash, and
there's other cars around.
So, I feel like it's very hard.
Juan would have had a very shortperiod of time to leave that
cabin without people noticing,because investigators And like
(26:22):
the civil guard, like theyshowed up relatively quick.
Cause remember people phone, youknow, like calling this in me,
like there is someone drivingerratically on this road.
Who's going to crash.
D (26:32):
He could have had burns and then thrown at the same time.
And then if he's confused orwhatever, it's a really foresty
area, he could have walked anddied eventually.
But the only question is, didthey do a thorough check?
Elena (26:48):
They claim they did.
It was a very large search partyand Juan's face though, was
plastered everywhere after thiswas going on.
So, if he had walked away, hewould need to get, Most likely
medical treatment somewhere andI feel like someone would have
noticed him Someone would haveseen like okay, this kid is the
missing kid or where yourparents something like that And
(27:11):
also he's a ten year old boy Ifeel like if he just came out of
a crash his first thing unlesshe was like amnesia But his
first thing would probably be totry and find an adult Which I
feel like he would probably goto the other cars that crashed
rather than just wandering offby himself.
D (27:28):
It all depends how far he'd been thrown.
Exactly.
If he'd been thrown.
Elena (27:32):
Right.
D (27:32):
And the other thing is, if he's been hit, he could walk
through a river and then if hefell in it dissolved him.
you wouldn't find bones, itcould have flowed down.
Well, he
Elena (27:42):
wouldn't have been dissolved though, even if he
fell into the river.
D (27:44):
Over time, did they check the whole area around there?
Elena (27:48):
Yeah, they said that they looked in all like the lakes and
the bodies of water.
It's possible like he could havebeen washed out.
I don't know if it was likeconnected to like a bigger like
I don't know how big thesebodies of water were but it's
possible that he could have beenwashed out.
D (28:03):
Here's the thing if anyone did go and take him this couple
let's say they took him I meanthis boy is burned.
Elena (28:11):
Unless he was already gone before then.
D (28:13):
Well if he's gone, why are they taking him?
Elena (28:15):
They, they went back to take something else.
There was eyewitness reportsthat two people saw this van
pull up and remove somethingfrom the truck.
D (28:23):
They could have removed drugs.
Elena (28:24):
True.
But then at that point, I guessone was already be with them at
that point.
Sophia (28:30):
But what if he ran away?
Cause he was afraid of them.
What if they had been trying tokidnap him or hurt his family or
whatever.
And so when he crashed, hethought he still needed to run.
Elena (28:41):
Which is true.
But I feel like the dogs wouldhave been able to pick up the
scent somewhere, unless thesulfuric acid was affecting the
scent, but, he wouldn't havebeen able to get very far if he
was in that crash, and then theywould have been able to find
him.
Sophia (28:57):
But have you heard those cases recently where the,
toddlers go missing in the woodsand then they end up miles away
and they have no idea how theywere able to go that far in such
a short period?
Yeah.
A time so it could be somethinglike he maybe in he's older.
He could have traveled very far.
Elena (29:13):
It's possible
D (29:13):
With burns though I don't know.
Elena (29:15):
His his parents were killed on impact So I gotta
assume that if he was there, hewould have had real bad injuries
So he wouldn't have been able toget very far.
Sophia (29:25):
I don't know for sure because just because\we don't
know how he would have gottenhit.
I think he would have gotteninjured somewhat but Maybe he
was the only one wearing hisseatbelt when his parents
weren't.
He would have had differentinjuries at that point.
Elena (29:37):
True.
It's very interesting because itdoesn't explain the frequent
stops.
Sophia (29:45):
Yes, and I will say if they are carrying drugs or if
they want to sit under the radarCausing that scene where you're
hitting other cars.
Obviously it made a scene peoplecalled 9 1 1 So I I mean my at
my hunch is that probablysomething happened to Juan and
they were chasing after.
Elena (30:02):
Yeah I think that too because 30 seconds.
Like I said, it's a very smallwindow, but It's possible for
someone to kidnap someone and Imean you hear stories where it's
like parents turn away for twoseconds And then the kid walks
off and then they're snatched Sowhat I think that they were
taken beforehand Because Andreasand Carmen and Juan they were a
(30:22):
happy Loving family by allreports.
They weren't like particularlywealthy, but they were happy
They were living their life.
He was a family man Andreas andI don't believe that he would
drive so frantically like thatwith Juan in his car unless he
had good reason.
And I can't really think what areason would be to drive like
(30:44):
that while his wife and kid werein the car.
Sophia (30:48):
Yeah, that's fair.
I'm not convinced that the mafiadid this though.
I'm not saying it wasn'torganized crime.
But because the Mafia is knownfor not hurting women and
children.
Elena (30:59):
Yeah.
Sophia (30:59):
It's really hard for me to think that.
Elena (31:01):
It could be like, just drug cartels and just some, drug
trafficking ring.
That's very possible.
Could be, like, gang related.
Drug traffickers and cartelgangs.
They're not really worried abouthurting a family or not.
They didn't transport the drugs,but now we can sell Juan.
We're gonna take Juan, we'regonna say we're gonna give him
back to you, we're gonna haveyou transport the drugs, we're
(31:22):
gonna have you commit a crime,and then we're gonna tell you
we're keeping your kid and youcan't go to the police or to the
authorities.
Sophia (31:29):
Well, at that point, I think you could.
Elena (31:30):
You could, 100%.
But I think most peoplewouldn't.
Sophia (31:35):
Because they had committed a crime?
Elena (31:36):
I think some people, if they don't know, they may not
Sophia (31:38):
they didn't want to.
You could say, I was forced to.
They took my child, and theygave me the drugs.
Elena (31:45):
Unless they were planning on after they get to that
destination that they're like,Okay, well now, transport more
drugs, and then we'll give youJuan, and at that point, Juan's
already been sold.
I mean, if they were totheoretically have dropped off
that first package, if theynever crashed, then their plan
could have been like, well,we're still going to sell Juan,
but we're going to keep thisthing going and have you,
(32:06):
transport more drugs.
And this whole thing could havebeen also about the drugs and
Juan.
It could have been like aorganized crime that does both.
Sophia (32:14):
But how would they even know about Juan in the first
place?
How would they know he was goingto be bringing his son?
How did they know what his sonlooked like?
What age he was?
What his child, that his childwas even a boy in the first
place.
Elena (32:26):
It could not really matter to them.
Someone could have seen them atthe restaurant.
They did make stops along theway from when they left to when
they crashed, like they werestopping frequently.
It's possible someone could haveseen them there.
Sophia (32:39):
So this could have been somewhat spontaneous then with
Juan.
Elena (32:42):
It could have been.
Sophia (32:43):
It was just, it was a way for them to actually get him
to do the drugs.
Elena (32:46):
It could have been like, we need to find a truck.
We need to force this truck totransport these drugs.
And then they saw, this truckerhas a wife and a kid.
We can use the kid as leverage.
You can use maybe the wife too.
We'll target that truck.
So it could have been somewhatplanned, but still random.
Sophia (33:03):
If Juan was kidnapped and they managed to get away, I
think all that publicityactually hurts his chances
because if people have someonethat the general public is very
well informed about and knowsabout, that puts them at risk.
Elena (33:19):
True.
It does.
And a lot of times they couldjust kill them this
disappearance is getting toomuch traction.
Too many missing person, flyersare being posted up.
Too many people know this kid'sface.
We have to get rid of him.
You didn't expect that.
I will say one more last pieceof information is that obviously
in like the months and yearshave followed, people started
reports of, Oh, I saw Juan.
(33:40):
And, a lot of these, reportsweren't really valid.
But, there was one story about1987 in May, where someone in
Madrid claims that he saw aelderly blind woman from Iranian
descent with, a little boy.
Sophia (33:59):
That's oddly specific.
Elena (34:01):
And a little boy, who's, guiding the elderly lady, Who,
they claimed to be a grandson,and the boy looked just like
Juan.
Now, while I don't know exactlywhere this took place, there's a
lot of conflicting reports aboutwhere this interaction took
place, but essentially, some guysaw an elderly woman and a child
(34:23):
walk in, and they were talking,and she mentioned somehow like,
she's not from here, they'rejust traveling, and The boy was
translating for the elderlylady, and the guy complimented
this kid, on his, Spanish, thathe, what he was speaking was
very fluent, and then that'swhen the older lady took this
(34:44):
kid's hand and kind of was like,decided okay, this conversation
needs to end quickly and kind ofmove things along.
And didn't really let this boyreally talk afterwards.
So it was very suspicious.
the boy's accent sounds likehe's from.
He's from Spain.
Sophia (34:58):
Where is this taking place?
Elena (34:59):
This is taking place in Madrid.
Sophia (35:01):
Well, he's in Spain then.
Elena (35:02):
Well,, that's what I'm saying, he's saying that this
accent.
Sophia (35:04):
This boy, what they were claiming he's Iranian.
Elena (35:07):
they were claiming that he wasn't from there, that they
just traveled there.
Oh.
But this guy's like, well.
Then why does he have an accentthat he's from here and why does
he speak so fluently?
And it wasn't until later thathe saw the missing, poster or
something of Juan where he waslike, That's who I saw.
This is who I saw.
And he went back and by then,the boy and the older lady had
(35:29):
fled.
But I do think it's interestingthat this is like the one
eyewitness account of Juan.
One that's really the only onethat holds any value,
Sophia (35:41):
did he see this, was it, you didn't say a laundromat, did
you?
Elena (35:46):
No.
I don't really know where thistook place.
I've seen multiple reports ofthis happening like a driving
school or something like that.
Different places.
I think it's possibly could havebeen some sort of government
building.
I'm not sure.
But yes, there was, essentiallyan older elderly blind woman who
came in in Madrid and it wasaccompanied by this little boy.
(36:11):
He spoke the language fluently.
He had the accent.
So it just really wasn't addingup.
And the lady, once the guycomplimented the boy's accent,
that's when the older lady beganto kind of like, okay, we're
wrapping this up, like notletting him talk anymore.
I'm taking more control.
Sophia (36:29):
It's definitely weird, but to counter that, children
have an easier way of grasping alanguage in a shorter amount of
time and accent too.
I will say if it was Juan, Juanlooks Spanish, but if somebody
wanted to pretend that he wasIranian, yeah, he could
definitely play the part, withhis feature.
I don't know what capabilitiesthey have, but I'm sure if they
(36:50):
brought him to Iran physicallyhe could pretend to fit right
in.
Elena (36:54):
Yeah, there was a report I saw once that they're saying
like the woman claimed she wasjust been there for like six
months, which I don't know ifthat's enough time for a little
boy to grasp a language fullyand then the accent as well.
D (37:07):
The boy could have been living there.
She claimed that they all movedthere.
The elderly lady claimed.
We don't know that.
Maybe she didn't want to sayanything.
Don't forget that during thattime there were a lot of
problems with Iran.
Yeah.
And many of the Iranians whowere immigrants, had a very
difficult time in Europe and theUnited States.
Right.
So it could be she was tryingnot to have much communication
(37:30):
for reasons that we are unawareof.
Elena (37:33):
And there was one report that, claimed that she had just
fled Iran.
So it's possible.
Sophia (37:39):
She could be distrustful of people.
Elena (37:39):
Right, we just fled, like, why are you talking to my
grandson?
I don't want to bring moreattention towards me than what's
necessary.
Unfortunately, that's all wereally have on this case.
What you choose to thinkhappened, it's your own choice
and your own theories.
But personally, I thinksomething happened along the way
from the crash, from thebreakfast that they had, the
(38:02):
breakfast stop, and the crashwhere Juan was taken.
Cause I, based on what I knowabout Andreas and how he was as
a father and a husband, he justdoes not seem like that kind of
person who would drive soerratically knowing his son was
in the car.
And then of course this weirdcouple that pulled up and
removed something for the carthen drove off, that's not a
(38:24):
coincidence, personally.
What are you guys kind ofleaning more towards?
D (38:27):
I don't know.
It is a little strange.
Sophia (38:30):
I think the whole thing is pretty weird.
But given that the truck wasstopping so often, and it would
be very weird for him to becrashing into people
intentionally, especially if,They're trying to transport
drugs like he has there's tracesof heroin and cocaine in that
truck and doing that is bringingattention to him So I think he'd
(38:51):
have he must have a very validreason for doing that.
If you forced me to like bet mymoney on something I'd bet my
money that somebody hadkidnapped Juan and they were
chasing after him.
Elena (39:00):
I mean, I guess it's possible maybe he just hit his
head and Has amnesia and it'sbeen 30 decades and maybe but
like I still feel like even ifthat was the case.
Sophia (39:09):
Do you think he'd still be alive with amnesia?
Elena (39:12):
He could be, he just forgot his identity and started
a new one.
Sophia (39:16):
But wouldn't people know him.
Elena (39:17):
That's the problem with that theory is,
Sophia (39:19):
I mean he could have had temporary amnesia and then maybe
like drowned in a lake orsomething.
Elena (39:23):
True, but for the theory of like permanent amnesia and
why he's never been found isjust because he's living a whole
new, different life, it'spossible, but I feel like
someone would have recognizedhim or he would have recognized
himself or gone to authoritiesor something like that.
Sophia (39:38):
I also think it's possible they just didn't find
his body.
Elena (39:41):
It's possible, but they combed through that area.
I will say and they did verythorough, search efforts, but at
the end of the day, it can't, itcould be hard.
Sophia (39:53):
Okay, not to put the spotlight on the dad, but if
this area is known for beingdifficult for truck drivers and,
being asked to carry drugs byMaybe dangerous parties.
Why would he take his wife andson along?
Elena (40:07):
I think he's done this Route a lot.
I think he's taken this tripbefore and It's possible that he
just thought like nothing's everhappened before like nothing
will happen to me.
It's possible Maybe he didn'tknow that Like I said, it was
just like a couple of reportsfrom other truckers that said
that this is possible in thearea.
Maybe it's not.
Sophia (40:26):
Or, was there something going on with the family that he
knew they were in danger, and hewanted to take them with to try
and protect them?
Something that we're unaware ofyeah, maybe they were involved
in drugs beforehand or somethingI don't know.
Elena (40:39):
It's possible.
I the family did say, you knowthat Andreas was receiving
threats to transport drugspreviously now That's true or
not.
I don't know.
I think at the beginning thefamily pushed more of the drug
theory than the investigators Ithink they wanted to just say
well, you know He was his bodyjust was dissolved in the acid
and then after that was Clearlylike debunked they didn't have
(41:03):
anywhere else to turn but Idon't know if it's necessarily
drug related But I do think mostlikely he was kidnapped somehow
By someone beforehand before thecrash I should say.
Sophia (41:15):
Were there multiple cars following them?
Elena (41:17):
I think so.
Sophia (41:19):
Just based on eyewitness reports?
Elena (41:21):
There was the car that crashed and then there was two
People further back that weren'tpart of the crash.
They were called Shepherds andherders.
So I guess they were herdingtheir goats.
Sophia (41:37):
But these people saw multiple cars.
Engaging with the truck.
Elena (41:41):
They just saw the van.
Sophia (41:43):
Oh, the van, okay.
Elena (41:44):
The Nissan van.
And investigators did try tolook into the white Nissan van
being driven by two blondepeople on white lab coats, but
there's like 3, 000 vans in thatarea that match the description,
so there wasn't much that theycould go on.
D (41:58):
The bundle that they removed from the truck, do they think
that may be drugs or Juan?
Elena (42:06):
Both are possible theories.
Sophia (42:09):
Wait, how big was his bundle?
Elena (42:11):
It was reported as like a small packet.
Now, small can mean anythingfrom like foot to maybe three,
four, five feet.
D (42:20):
Three, four, five feet is not a lot.
Elena (42:22):
Well, I guess, yeah, but it could have been like three
feet.
It could have been, it couldhave been a little boy.
you don't know.
They just had like a smallpackage.
Sophia (42:28):
We need to know the size, because a small package,
I'm imagining like a foot longpackage, which is not Juan, but
if it's four feet potentially,that could be Juan.
Elena (42:38):
It could have been maybe like Juan was already knocked
out, so he was bundled up, andthe people were further away.
These herders were further backthough, so they were pretty far
away, so they claimed that theysaw like some sort of package.
Sophia (42:50):
Wrapped in what?
Elena (42:51):
They didn't say.
Like I said, they were furtherout, and they were like, On the
mountains, they, they may nothave seen like that much.
Sophia (42:59):
I wonder if he felt like they could just not stop and ask
for help.
These people were loaded withguns or something.
Elena (43:06):
It was the eighties.
So it's, they probably didn'thave like cell phones or
anything to call the police andsay, Hey, this is what's
happening on this road.
And They just kidnapped my son.
D (43:17):
If they kidnapped him, then if they went back to the truck,
I'm assuming they went back tothe truck for the drugs.
Yeah.
Already had kidnapped the boy.
Elena (43:26):
Yeah.
I think some of the theories islike, there's probably two cars,
two vans, or some sort of twovehicles.
There's,, two theories.
One is that there were two carsversus one car, but.
There's two cars, there wouldhave been the car in the front
that took Juan, maybe the car inthe front and the back could
have forced the truck to reallynot go anywhere, took Juan out,
(43:46):
and then he was trying to chasethem, and when the truck
crashed, the car in front maynot have known that it crashed,
but the car behind them couldhave been like, Okay, we need to
take these drugs out becausethese are the drugs that we need
to transport and also we don'twant the police to find them.
The white van, The way it wasdescribed and how I interpreted
it was like it came up behindthe car, which doesn't explain,
(44:10):
why he was rapidly driving sofast that the van was behind him
unless there's another car infront of him that he was trying
to catch up with.
Unless the van circled backaround somehow.
D (44:21):
It doesn't make sense for them to kidnap Juan if he was
already doing the drugsdeliveries.
I don't understand why theywould feel the need to kidnap
Juan if he is doing already thedrug deliveries.
Elena (44:33):
I guess the theory is that he wasn't.
That they had asked him.
He could have gotten threatspreviously.
D (44:39):
But I felt the family said that he was doing it.
Elena (44:42):
No, the reports that he was being threatened to do this,
but he hadn't done it yet.
I did see a couple reports wherethe family said that he was
actively transporting drugs, butI didn't really include that
because at first, becausehonestly, I don't know if that's
(45:02):
true or not.
Because, there's no criminalrecord of him transporting
drugs.
There's no proof that he evertransported drugs.
But, some of the families didsay that he was threatened to
transport, but if he wastransporting drugs, I doubt he
would have taken his son on thattrip.
Which is why I feel like hedidn't set out.
Sophia (45:19):
Well, if he was transporting drugs, then why do
they need to threaten him?
Elena (45:22):
That's what I'm saying is I don't think he was
transporting drugs.
I think he probably said no, ormaybe he did it a little bit and
then he was like, that's it, nomore, I'm done, I'm out.
And then he was like, well,we're gonna take your kid until
you do it.
And that would be the theoriesbehind the weird 12 stops.
Maybe they, someone went infront of him and slammed the
brakes and was like, and anothercar pulled up and you need to
(45:45):
transport this drugs.
He was like, no, I'm not doingit.
And, and maybe this happened afew times and they were like,
screw this.
And like, we're just going totake your kid and you're going
to have to do it.
Or you're never going to see himagain.
D (45:56):
I wonder if maybe he was just not feeling well.
Because he did those weirdstops.
And if that's so, then there'sno drugs and no kidnapping.
And it could have been that onewas just thrown so far away.
And supposedly I think thosemountains are pretty thick and
difficult.
So maybe from his burns and allthat just happened to, pass
(46:17):
away.
And maybe they did not do athorough investigation.
Elena (46:20):
As they thought they did.
Sophia (46:22):
And the people who went to go get the package, they were
just like stealing from the car.
D (46:26):
Maybe they found drugs and took it.
Yeah, I don't know.
Sophia (46:29):
Yeah.
Elena (46:29):
It's possible.
D (46:30):
I mean, there are people who go through accidents to steal.
Elena (46:34):
Yeah, so in this theory Juan was in the car and died But
he was still transporting drugsand then people in the white van
were like, okay This is like anopportunity and just took drugs.
D (46:46):
Yeah, I mean if they did or who knows what they took.
Elena (46:49):
I definitely think that those people probably took drugs
out of the wreckage because Idon't think Juan was there.
I also feel like they probablywould have seen Blood from Juan
if they tested the blood thatthey found in the cabin to see
if any was from Juan in thecrash.
D (47:07):
Don't forget you have sulfuric acid all over the
place.
Elena (47:09):
Oh, that's true Yeah.
D (47:11):
So they are not checking for blood.
Elena (47:14):
Because that would have probably dissolved.
D (47:15):
First of all, they didn't even know there was a third
person.
Elena (47:18):
I'm saying later on, if they went back to see, was he
even in the vehicle when itcrashed, but I guess the
sulfuric acid probably wouldhave dissolved the blood.
D (47:25):
Well, the blood, yeah, if he hit blood.
And it all depends if he wasthrown out, how he was thrown
out, if he got burns, there's alot of ifs.
Elena (47:34):
There's a lot of ifs and there's a lot of questions and
this is why I wanted to do thiscase because one, it's a pretty
like well known case I feel likein Spain, but not a lot of
people know about this case andit's a very fascinating case and
there's a lot of weird twistsand turns and You're just left
with more unanswered questionsthan you are with answered.
And I want to bring this tolight because at the end of the
(47:55):
day that 10 year old boy Isstill missing after three
decades and Or decades now.
And I just I wanted to bringlight to the story and to this
little boy that unfortunately ishas never been seen again.
Alright guys, I want to thankyou all for listening to us this
week.
We love our listeners andbecause of you, we do this
(48:18):
podcast.
Your help and engagement reallyhelps the podcast grow and if
you enjoyed this episode, pleasetext a friend and family member
to listen to our podcast.
Until next time, make sure youstay on the eerie side.
Bye.
Bye.
And be safe.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Eerie
Side Podcast with your host,Elena, Sophia, and D.
(00:43):
Alright, before we get into theshow, we would appreciate it if
you all could give the podcast afollow, and make sure that the
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(01:05):
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Alright guys, are we ready toget into the episode today?
D (01:20):
Yes.
Elena (01:21):
So this episode is very interesting and I think you guys
are going to just be very likeperplexed on this case.
But I literally like did all myresearch and I wrote this up
yesterday, but I feel like Ihave this whole episode like
already memorized and I can gooff of like memory just because
of how fascinating it was inthis case and the sheer amount
of research I've done sincefinding it.
Sophia (01:42):
I'm glad we're recording it because you've been so
excited to share this with us.
Yeah, it's I can tell it's beenbuilding
Elena (01:47):
I also just want to say this case Takes place in Spain.
It's like an older one So thereis a little bit of lack of
information sometimes and a lotof the resources are in Spanish.
So just know that and just bearwith me when there's like a few
different, conflicting reports.
The disappearance of Juan PedroMartinez remains one of Spain's
most baffling and chillingunsolved mysteries.
(02:09):
Interpol even considered this tobe one of the strangest missing
person cases in Europe.
On June 25th, 1986, theenergetic 10 year old boy
vanished without a tracefollowing a horrific truck On a
remote mountain near theSomosierra community of Madrid,
Spain, the circumstancessurrounding his disappearance
(02:31):
have left investigators and thepublic grappling for answers for
over three decades.
On the morning of June 25th,1986, Juan's father, Andres
Martinez Navarro, and hismother, Carmen Gomez, set off on
a trip in a tank carrying 20,000 liters of sulfuric acid.
Sophia (02:51):
They were driving a
Elena (02:52):
tank?
Yeah.
Sophia (02:52):
Full of Why?
Elena (02:54):
he was a trucker, so there was just part of his
Sophia (02:57):
Well, that's like a disaster waiting to happen.
Elena (02:59):
So just keep that in mind.
20, 000 liters, that's like over5, 000 so gallons of sulfuric
acid.
So just keep that in mind.
The father, Andreas, was a truckdriver and brought the family
along as a reward for Juanearning good grades.
Andreas made a deal with Juanthat if he earned good grades in
(03:19):
school, he could tag along, andthat's exactly what Juan did.
He studied hard, he worked forit, and he got the good grades.
Now, I believe the mother justkind of tagged along to watch
over Juan while the fatherdrove, but, not really sure.
There are some other theoriesthat we'll get into later,
regardless, they took off fortheir journey from Fuente Alamo
(03:41):
de Murica to Bilbao, andunfortunately, on that June
25th, in the early mornings,Andreas truck, which was
carrying that 20, 000 liters ofsulfuric acid, was seen
traveling around 140 kilometersper hour, which is about 85
miles per hour, on the SomiseraMountain Pass, where it collided
(04:03):
with an oncoming vehicle.
Sophia (04:05):
85 miles per hour, he's driving a truck of sulfuric acid
on mountain roads?
Elena (04:10):
Yeah, on the Somisera Mountain Pass.
Sophia (04:15):
If anyone's listening to this and have, they have not
driven in mountains wherethere's so many turns, it is
scary.
Elena (04:21):
This is exactly that, like I'm gonna show you guys a
picture of kind of what it lookslike.
It's not the best,
D (04:30):
Did he suffer a heart attack or something?
Elena (04:32):
Well, we're gonna get into what is going on in a
little bit.
This kind of gives a little bitof like how windy the roads
were, and believe me when I saythis is like, this is a very
dangerous, route to take, and itis very well known for being a
very dangerous, path because ofthe mountains, the sharp turns,
(04:55):
all that stuff.
So it is known to be not thesafest, especially when you're
driving fast.
D (05:02):
This does not look bad.
I've been on the worst road.
Elena (05:04):
Well, no, it's not the best picture, but this is,
Sophia (05:07):
No, if you're not paying attention and you swerve off,
you're off a cliff.
Yeah.
D (05:10):
This is not that bad.
No, it's There's worsemountains.
There's worse.
Yeah, there is.
Don't get me wrong, but 85 miles
Sophia (05:15):
per hour and you're driving a truck and it has
sulfuric acid?
Right.
Elena (05:18):
These pictures don't really do it justice, but it is
It does have real bad twists andturns and very steep edges.
D (05:27):
Okay, this is Where you have to be careful in some of sense.
Elena (05:30):
Yeah.
The second picture kind of showsyou that there is, uh, a good
amount of like steep drops inand sharp turns that you have to
be aware of.
D (05:37):
Right.
Elena (05:38):
So, the accident damaged the tanker that contained the
sulfuric acid, and it began toleak.
Leading up to the crash, thetruck was seen rapidly speeding
past other cars, almost goingover the edge as it passed each
vehicle, and even hitting theside mirror of another vehicle
while passing.
The truck also knocked anothercar completely off the road and
(05:59):
then fatally crashed head onwith another truck.
Obviously, there were witnessesseeing this crazy behavior and
emergency services were alreadynotified before, you know, the
truck even crashed.
So, when the truck did crash,responders were already on their
way.
When they first arrived, theychecked on the parents, but
there wasn't anything they coulddo.
(06:20):
They immediately died from theimpact.
Sophia (06:22):
Oh, wow.
Elena (06:23):
There wasn't anything that they could do.
D (06:25):
Wait, the accident, did they fall off a cliff?
Elena (06:28):
Yeah, so they didn't like fall completely off, but they
did fall into a ditch.
So the truck did get knockedover and it fell into a ditch
but when they did go to check,there was only Andres and
Carmen.
There was no evidence of Juanand so they had no idea that
Juan was even in the truck tobegin with.
Sophia (06:49):
That's what I was wondering.
Elena (06:51):
So obviously they begin to deal with the sulfuric acid
that was contaminating the areaand so that's what immediately
they focused on.
They were trying to contain thearea as there is nature,
wildlife all around.
Sophia (07:04):
This might be obvious, but what are some of the
negative effects of thatsulfuric acid?
filling in the air towards likethe other people nearby in the
wildlife and animals?
Elena (07:13):
You know, I'm not too sure.
I, do you know that when Ilistened to it and read
research, that they were sayingthat they were afraid that the
acid would get into the water,like the lakes and stuff.
So I'm not sure to what extentit would damage.
I do know that, Sulfuric aciddoes have the ability to kind of
burn skin.
(07:34):
So it could definitely damage,the grass and the trees and,
contaminate the water.
And I don't know if they wereusing that water supply for
themselves.
Like people drank from thoselike streams that were there,
but.
They were definitely trying tocontain the area.
And they were successful inpreventing it from, affecting
the nearby area.
Now, once the scene was secureand safe, they began to remove
(07:56):
the bodies that were in thetruck.
They removed Andreas and Carmen,but they were unaware that Juan
was previously in the truck.
So they weren't looking for him.
It wasn't until later, thatCarmen's mother was contacted
that day to tell her that herdaughter and her son in law had
died.
And that's when Carmen's motherasked, Well, what about Juan?
Like, is Juan okay?
(08:16):
Is he still alive?
That's when they learned thatJuan was traveling with them.
And they were shocked.
So they immediately beganlooking for Juan, and they did
notice that there were signsthat he was there.
the truck with them in thecabin.
They found items such as,children's clothes, toys,
children's cassette tapes.
I've also heard reports that,the sole of his shoe was found.
(08:37):
It was clear that Juan had beenwith them.
But, where is it now?
They began searching thesurrounding areas with dogs,
motorbikes, horses, andhelicopters.
And they even lifted the truckto see if maybe he was thrown
underneath it somehow, but hewas nowhere to be found.
Now, this case and crash isbecoming more and more
perplexing to the investigatorsand what they initially
(08:59):
expected.
There's this weird crash with alittle boy missing and no leads.
So the investigators beganretracing the family steps and
talking to witnesses.
While talking to witnesses, oneof the witnesses that was in the
car that Andreas had managed torun off the road had said that
he saw a foreign looking couplepull up in a white Nissan van to
(09:20):
assist him.
The man and the blonde woman,and I heard reports that both
were blonde or that the man hada mustache, so A man and a
blonde woman who claimed to be anurse.
They were like all white.
The woman claimed to be a nurseor some sort of doctor and they
were wearing like white labcoats.
So the guy initially justassumed like it was some sort of
like doctor or nurse who wastrying to like help the
(09:42):
situation, but.
Sophia (09:44):
This is after the crash?
Elena (09:45):
Right, yeah, right after the crash.
D (09:47):
Wait a second, two people in lab coats appear at the crash?
Elena (09:52):
Mm hmm, in a white Nissan van.
D (09:54):
And they appear at the crash where the truck is, not where
they hit other people.
Elena (10:00):
I guess it was kind of both like they were trailing a
little bit behind.
So they kind of pulled up tothat car and then eventually
they went to the crash.
Now, I don't know how farbetween that car and the truck
is.
I don't know if that personcould see the truck or not.
But at some point they weredriving behind.
Went to the car, and then latergoes to the truck, and I'll get
(10:21):
into that in a second.
D (10:22):
And they're two foreign individuals?
Elena (10:24):
Yeah, and they knew that based on the blonde hair,
because they're from Spain, andthey're like, Nordic looking,
they were from some sort ofNordic country.
D (10:33):
Do they speak
Elena (10:35):
I'm not sure.
I think they spoke English, butI'm not sure.
D (10:39):
There's two individuals driving around with lab coats
on.
Elena (10:41):
Mm hmm.
D (10:42):
Okay,
Sophia (10:43):
That's suspicious.
Elena (10:44):
it's interesting.
Yeah, two other witnesses saw awhite van pull up to the truck
after it had crashed and thesame pair of people got out and
took a package from the cabin.
Now what that package was hasnever been confirmed, but there
are theories surrounding it andI'll get into that a little
later.
So, all of this is becomingvery, very strange to
(11:07):
investigators.
There's multiple reports of thiscouple being at the scene, but
fleeing before first responderscould get there.
They claimed that they weretrying to help, and yet didn't
seem to help at all.
So the investigators turned tothe cabin of the truck where the
parents were.
And that's where they foundtrace amounts of heroin and some
reports cocaine as well.
(11:29):
Wow.
Now neither Andreas or Carmenhad criminal records or were
involved with illegal drugs.
But the family did say thatAndreas was getting threats for
weeks from supposed mafias whowanted him to transport drugs
for them.
Also, the decision to bring Juanalong, some people speculate,
may have been motivated more bythe couple's attempts to protect
(11:53):
him than for Juan getting goodgrades.
Now, this theory doesn't quitealign with the fact that the
family didn't own the truckAndreas was So, I mean, the
Heroin could have been fromsomeone else theoretically if
other people had driven thattruck and like I said, there's
not any Proof that he had anyties.
(12:13):
Like he said there was threatsthat he was getting supposedly
from the family members Butnothing that could be proven.
Sophia (12:21):
He was getting threats from mafia, right?
And why how did they find thathim if they we even know?
Elena (12:26):
well, this area is pretty well known by truckers for Like
cartel and like mafias and whowill kind of threaten truck
drivers into transporting drugsfor them.
It's also like a big thing, formafias to kind of target truck
drivers because they have thatability to transport stuff
(12:49):
sometimes within the country andsometimes outside of the
country.
D (12:51):
Let me understand, he's just a truck driver, I mean he does
not own the truck himself,correct?
Elena (12:57):
Correct, but I think this was like the truck that he would
repeatedly use, but I don't knowif during this time anyone else
was using the truck, so I'm notcertain because this was a while
ago, and there's not always likeclear answers to some of these.
D (13:14):
My other question is, they brought Juan with to protect the
dad?
Elena (13:20):
Andres claimed that he brought Juan along because he
got good grades and that thiswas a deal made.
But some speculate that maybeAndres wanted to bring Carmen
and Juan along to protect themfrom whoever was threatening
him.
Maybe he thought that they weregoing to come to their home and
do something because Andresdidn't want to transport drugs,
(13:41):
but we don't know.
D (13:41):
What about the theory that he brought them along to protect
him.
Mafia doesn't like to attackfamilies.
Yeah.
True.
So if they thought he had hisfamily with, he may have thought
he was safe.
Elena (13:53):
That's true too, but I also, I'm not sure if he would
want to bring his kids with himif he thought something could
happen.
Because I don't know for sure ifthis was like mafia, drug,
cartel, so I'm not 100 percentsure, but it is possible.
Upon further investigation, likeI said, there were, trace
amounts of heroin.
But, while they were looking atthe truck, everything was
(14:14):
working fine.
Because initially they thought,well, it's gotta be the brakes,
right?
There's gotta be something wrongbecause he was driving downhill,
85 miles per hour, crashed headon.
To another truck.
So they thought the brakes, butafter multiple specialists and
mechanics looked over thebrakes, just to make sure it was
clear that they were workingfine.
(14:34):
However, the tachometer on thetruck did show that it made 12
very short stops, lasting nomore than a few seconds to the
longest being 30 seconds.
And he never left the road,meaning he.
And his truck was driving onthis road, stopping completely,
and then starting up again.
(14:55):
At first, it was considered,there might have been a, like a
traffic jam, or some sort ofaccident.
But after talking to witnessesthat were there that day on the
road, and there at the crash,there was No traffic.
So these stops that were takenacross eight miles when the
family had stopped for breakfasttill they had crashed, it was
getting strange.
Now, I also want to point outthat the waiter at the
(15:18):
restaurant said that he saw thefamily, including Juan, get into
the cabin of the truck.
So we have a witness that putsJuan back into the truck, so we
know, at least, after they leftthe, that Juan went back into
the cabin, which is like thefront of the truck.
Sophia (15:36):
I was wondering if he was even there that day.
So that told me that he wasthere at some point.
Elena (15:41):
Yeah, there were multiple witnesses during that day
because they left the nightbefore and then they were
driving through the night intothe early morning.
So I think.
witnesses and stuff were able tocollaborate that yes, Juan was
on this trip.
So investigators thought thatmaybe Andres was trying to
communicate with another vehicleor avoid one.
But nothing was ever confirmed.
Because remember, he's makingthese weird 12 stops, and he has
(16:04):
a truck, so keep in mind, thesehuge tanker trucks, cannot stop
and start up easily.
So it's very, very strange thaton this road, he's just taking
these 12 random stops.
Sophia (16:17):
Do they say, like, how far in between one stop to
another it was, and how often itwas?
Elena (16:23):
No, I'm not sure, but I think this all happened within a
span of an hour or two.
So it wasn't like within an houror so, like it wasn't that long.
But what's clear is thatsometimes you would stop for a
few seconds, the longest beingabout 30 seconds.
Where does this leave theinvestigators?
Well, with no further leads andnobody to really help them, the
(16:47):
investigation hits a halt.
There's a truck that was drivingerratically that eventually
crashed, there's sulfuric acidspilling everywhere, there's a
missing child, multipleeyewitness accounts, seeing a
strange pair showing up afterthe crash, and trace amounts of
heroin found in the cabin.
With no new leads to go on,theories started to form.
It was initially thought thatJuan's body could have been
(17:09):
completely dissolved by theacid.
There's some holes with thistheory.
One, Andreas and Carmen werefound with the acid on them, and
they weren't dissolved.
And two, further tests wereeventually ran, and it was clear
that the boy would have had tohave been completely submerged
for a very long time Just to getthe soft tissues dissolved, it
(17:30):
would have had to take about 24hours of him being dissolved and
for the sulfuric acid todissolve bones, he would have
had to been submerged for aboutfive days.
And even then, hair, nails,teeth that still would have been
left behind.
To have him been, dissolved bythe sulfuric acid just wasn't a
possible theory in this case.
(17:51):
So, where is Juan?
Given the condition that theparents were in, it's unlikely
that he just walked away andeven if he did, he wouldn't have
been able to get very far.
An investigator searched thesurrounding area to see if Juan
was there, but they foundnothing.
That does bring me to anothertheory, which is some speculate
that Juan was in the cabinduring the crash.
(18:11):
And then when, the crashhappened, he hit his head, maybe
got some sort of amnesia,doesn't really remember where he
was, kept going, and theneventually somehow, I don't
know, that theory to me doesn'treally hold a lot because,
although it's possible hewould've had severe injuries, I
would assume, his parents werekilled upon impact, so you would
(18:32):
have to assume that he had somepretty bad injuries, if he was
in that crash.
I doubt he would have been ableto get far.
It's possible someone picked himup.
Sophia (18:40):
Well, my question is, did it look like something had
gone through the windshield?
Elena (18:45):
I'm not sure, but they did search the surrounding area
of the truck, so if he hadgotten thrown out of the vehicle
somewhere, they would have foundhim.
Sophia (18:54):
Well, you'd think.
How about his parents?
Were they wearing theirseatbelts?
Elena (18:58):
I think so.
I mean, cause they didn't getthrown out.
They were in their cabin.
I will say the parents weresomewhat damaged, obviously by
the sulfuric acid, but they werestill, fully intact.
Another theory is that, Juansomehow survived the crash and
went to the water, maybe to washoff the sulfuric acid, and
(19:20):
succumbed to his injuries, orthe water just washed him away,
but they did look in the, thenearby lakes, and they did
search them, and they didn'tfind him anywhere.
And, when I tell you, thissearch that they did for Juan
was very, very, in depth.
they were saying they were,like, looking at every bush,
every corner, every tree, theywere looking for Juan.
(19:41):
So, I feel like, If he wassomewhere in the woods or the
surrounding area, they wouldhave seen him.
Another theory is that thiswhole thing was drug related.
After the heroin and possiblycocaine was found, police
thought that it was possible.
Another vehicle, that was partof the smuggling ring was
following Andreas and that hecrashed because of the nerves or
(20:04):
that he was attempting to followanother car that had kidnapped
Juan.
Now, this theory does seem verypossible because the tachometer
readings and why Andreas wasdriving so radically.
But again, there's no evidence,I would say, that this the
family was ever involved in drugsmuggling or anything.
(20:24):
But it is possible that, thosetwelve frequent stops could have
been, Andreas noticing thatthere was some suspicious van
following him.
And so maybe thought, Oh,they're going to try and stop us
and, try to force us to smuggledrugs.
So maybe he tried to stop to letthe, the van go or the car go
(20:44):
frequently.
And then eventually during thelast stop, which I believe
lasted like 30 seconds, that'swhen they came in.
That's when they, swarmed thetruck, maybe possibly a
gunpoint, forced one out, forcedthe package into the car and
said, you will transport this towherever you, we need you to go,
(21:04):
and then you will get your sonback, which is possible.
And it does explain a lot ofthings like the stops and of
course why he was driving sofrantically because no one in
their right mind would everdrive like that.
With their wife and child in thecar.
It's possible he wasn't in hisright mind, right?
I mean, his child just gotkidnapped.
(21:26):
And it's also possible that somepeople theorize that maybe he
was having some sort of medicalemergency, which you did talk
about, mom.
Now this would explain Thefrequent stops, like maybe he
was feeling something with hisheart, something was going on
and he wasn't too sure.
And then he just kept going.
He's like, okay, no, I'm feelingbetter.
And then eventually when he wasdriving, he passed out.
(21:46):
And then the erratic driving wasCarmen trying to swerve out of
the way.
It doesn't explain Juan beingmissing.
And I feel like they probablywould have been able to tell
with an autopsy or something ifhe had a heart attack.
I don't know if they did anautopsy or what that would show,
but I feel like that probablycould be debunked pretty easily.
Sophia (22:07):
I have a lot of holes with that theory you just
mentioned.
Elena (22:09):
Yeah, there is definitely a lot of holes and I don't
really Believe that theory but.
Sophia (22:14):
You said you kind of did I thought no?
Elena (22:16):
The the heart attack?
Sophia (22:18):
No, not the heart attack the fact that you think there it
was drug related and thatsomebody kidnapped him I don't
if somebody's like trying tokidnap you or your child.
Why are you gonna stop so manytimes?
After the first time in this cardoesn't go ahead of you.
Why you keep stopping?
Elena (22:32):
It is weird I mean it could also be that he was trying
to communicate with another car.
We don't really know.
There could have been anothercar that was making them stop.
It was braking, brake checkingthem.
We don't know.
And it is, everything in thattheory, for me, Aligns except
the frequent stops.
I mean it does explain like that30 second stop where Juan could
have been taken But those otherstops it is a weird thing, but I
(22:55):
feel like to me The drug theoryholds a little bit more weight
than some of the other theories.
Sophia (23:00):
What I don't understand is if they're already
transporting these drugs in acar, they're transporting them
themselves.
Why go hand a package of drugsto somebody in a truck?
Elena (23:10):
Because I think the trucks can go unnoticed more.
And I think that's why becausethis is an issue from what I
read that trucks can sometimesbe threatened to transport
goods, drugs on this specificroad, on this path.
Sophia (23:27):
That they can be threatened?
Elena (23:28):
Yeah, it is something that happens.
Sophia (23:30):
I don't know, I suppose maybe they were trying to get
the truck to stop and that's whyhe was stopping But nobody else
saw that on the road?
Elena (23:38):
There's no witnesses that could say like, yeah I saw him
stopping, this is why, or whynot, but, no.
Personally, like I said, I thinkit's possible that somehow along
the way Juan was kidnapped andthe parents were frantically
trying to catch up with whoevertook their son and unfortunately
crashed.
Then the people who took Juan,the couple in the white van,
(24:02):
went back to the truck toretrieve something.
Rather that be the drugs orsomething else and then left.
There's also finally I do wantto say this theory this last
theory doesn't hold a lot ofweight for me But there is
another theory that states thatWhoever that couple was in the
van pulled up trying to help sawJuan and maybe took him in hopes
(24:25):
of Going to like driving to ahospital to save him and then
along the way he died in the carAnd he succumbed to his injuries
and maybe they had a criminalpast and they didn't want to
explain that and everything butpersonally I don't know.
That's like it's a little weirdthat someone would just You know
Take this kid, and then try andsave them, but then not, and
(24:46):
just discard the body.
It's also possible that this wascompletely random, and some
people were looking to kidnap achild.
They saw this crash, and theytook the opportunity, which is
very rare.
What are the odds that you'redriving on this windy road
looking to kidnap a kid, andthen eventually a car, a truck
(25:06):
crashes?
We're not looking, but they knowthey want to kidnap a kid, and
then They see this opportunityand they take it.
It's very, very rare.
Sophia (25:14):
I think, I still think it's possible that Juan could
have just wandered off andgotten confused too.
D (25:19):
Here's a question about Juan wandering off.
If he did do that, the thing ishe had sulfuric acid burns on
him.
So, if he was lost, he wouldprobably be wandering trying to
find maybe water or something toease his pain.
My first question would be howlong after the accident did
someone go to see what's goingon?
Elena (25:39):
I would say pretty quickly because there was a
witness, like I said, that sawthat van pull up and I don't
think they saw anyone else exitthe cabin since that van pulled
up.
I guess it's possible.
Juan might have walked outbefore that couple pulled up,
and I don't know if thosewitnesses that saw the van pull
(25:59):
up to the truck were therebeforehand, but what I do know
is that they saw them.
It's possible he could have leftbefore then, but after that I
would assume those people werestill watching the crash, and
there's other cars around.
So, I feel like it's very hard.
Juan would have had a very shortperiod of time to leave that
cabin without people noticing,because investigators And like
(26:22):
the civil guard, like theyshowed up relatively quick.
Cause remember people phone, youknow, like calling this in me,
like there is someone drivingerratically on this road.
Who's going to crash.
D (26:32):
He could have had burns and then thrown at the same time.
And then if he's confused orwhatever, it's a really foresty
area, he could have walked anddied eventually.
But the only question is, didthey do a thorough check?
Elena (26:48):
They claim they did.
It was a very large search partyand Juan's face though, was
plastered everywhere after thiswas going on.
So, if he had walked away, hewould need to get, Most likely
medical treatment somewhere andI feel like someone would have
noticed him Someone would haveseen like okay, this kid is the
missing kid or where yourparents something like that And
(27:11):
also he's a ten year old boy Ifeel like if he just came out of
a crash his first thing unlesshe was like amnesia But his
first thing would probably be totry and find an adult Which I
feel like he would probably goto the other cars that crashed
rather than just wandering offby himself.
D (27:28):
It all depends how far he'd been thrown.
Exactly.
If he'd been thrown.
Elena (27:32):
Right.
D (27:32):
And the other thing is, if he's been hit, he could walk
through a river and then if hefell in it dissolved him.
you wouldn't find bones, itcould have flowed down.
Well, he
Elena (27:42):
wouldn't have been dissolved though, even if he
fell into the river.
D (27:44):
Over time, did they check the whole area around there?
Elena (27:48):
Yeah, they said that they looked in all like the lakes and
the bodies of water.
It's possible like he could havebeen washed out.
I don't know if it was likeconnected to like a bigger like
I don't know how big thesebodies of water were but it's
possible that he could have beenwashed out.
D (28:03):
Here's the thing if anyone did go and take him this couple
let's say they took him I meanthis boy is burned.
Elena (28:11):
Unless he was already gone before then.
D (28:13):
Well if he's gone, why are they taking him?
Elena (28:15):
They, they went back to take something else.
There was eyewitness reportsthat two people saw this van
pull up and remove somethingfrom the truck.
D (28:23):
They could have removed drugs.
Elena (28:24):
True.
But then at that point, I guessone was already be with them at
that point.
Sophia (28:30):
But what if he ran away?
Cause he was afraid of them.
What if they had been trying tokidnap him or hurt his family or
whatever.
And so when he crashed, hethought he still needed to run.
Elena (28:41):
Which is true.
But I feel like the dogs wouldhave been able to pick up the
scent somewhere, unless thesulfuric acid was affecting the
scent, but, he wouldn't havebeen able to get very far if he
was in that crash, and then theywould have been able to find
him.
Sophia (28:57):
But have you heard those cases recently where the,
toddlers go missing in the woodsand then they end up miles away
and they have no idea how theywere able to go that far in such
a short period?
Yeah.
A time so it could be somethinglike he maybe in he's older.
He could have traveled very far.
Elena (29:13):
It's possible
D (29:13):
With burns though I don't know.
Elena (29:15):
His his parents were killed on impact So I gotta
assume that if he was there, hewould have had real bad injuries
So he wouldn't have been able toget very far.
Sophia (29:25):
I don't know for sure because just because\we don't
know how he would have gottenhit.
I think he would have gotteninjured somewhat but Maybe he
was the only one wearing hisseatbelt when his parents
weren't.
He would have had differentinjuries at that point.
Elena (29:37):
True.
It's very interesting because itdoesn't explain the frequent
stops.
Sophia (29:45):
Yes, and I will say if they are carrying drugs or if
they want to sit under the radarCausing that scene where you're
hitting other cars.
Obviously it made a scene peoplecalled 9 1 1 So I I mean my at
my hunch is that probablysomething happened to Juan and
they were chasing after.
Elena (30:02):
Yeah I think that too because 30 seconds.
Like I said, it's a very smallwindow, but It's possible for
someone to kidnap someone and Imean you hear stories where it's
like parents turn away for twoseconds And then the kid walks
off and then they're snatched Sowhat I think that they were
taken beforehand Because Andreasand Carmen and Juan they were a
(30:22):
happy Loving family by allreports.
They weren't like particularlywealthy, but they were happy
They were living their life.
He was a family man Andreas andI don't believe that he would
drive so frantically like thatwith Juan in his car unless he
had good reason.
And I can't really think what areason would be to drive like
(30:44):
that while his wife and kid werein the car.
Sophia (30:48):
Yeah, that's fair.
I'm not convinced that the mafiadid this though.
I'm not saying it wasn'torganized crime.
But because the Mafia is knownfor not hurting women and
children.
Elena (30:59):
Yeah.
Sophia (30:59):
It's really hard for me to think that.
Elena (31:01):
It could be like, just drug cartels and just some, drug
trafficking ring.
That's very possible.
Could be, like, gang related.
Drug traffickers and cartelgangs.
They're not really worried abouthurting a family or not.
They didn't transport the drugs,but now we can sell Juan.
We're gonna take Juan, we'regonna say we're gonna give him
back to you, we're gonna haveyou transport the drugs, we're
(31:22):
gonna have you commit a crime,and then we're gonna tell you
we're keeping your kid and youcan't go to the police or to the
authorities.
Sophia (31:29):
Well, at that point, I think you could.
Elena (31:30):
You could, 100%.
But I think most peoplewouldn't.
Sophia (31:35):
Because they had committed a crime?
Elena (31:36):
I think some people, if they don't know, they may not
Sophia (31:38):
they didn't want to.
You could say, I was forced to.
They took my child, and theygave me the drugs.
Elena (31:45):
Unless they were planning on after they get to that
destination that they're like,Okay, well now, transport more
drugs, and then we'll give youJuan, and at that point, Juan's
already been sold.
I mean, if they were totheoretically have dropped off
that first package, if theynever crashed, then their plan
could have been like, well,we're still going to sell Juan,
but we're going to keep thisthing going and have you,
(32:06):
transport more drugs.
And this whole thing could havebeen also about the drugs and
Juan.
It could have been like aorganized crime that does both.
Sophia (32:14):
But how would they even know about Juan in the first
place?
How would they know he was goingto be bringing his son?
How did they know what his sonlooked like?
What age he was?
What his child, that his childwas even a boy in the first
place.
Elena (32:26):
It could not really matter to them.
Someone could have seen them atthe restaurant.
They did make stops along theway from when they left to when
they crashed, like they werestopping frequently.
It's possible someone could haveseen them there.
Sophia (32:39):
So this could have been somewhat spontaneous then with
Juan.
Elena (32:42):
It could have been.
Sophia (32:43):
It was just, it was a way for them to actually get him
to do the drugs.
Elena (32:46):
It could have been like, we need to find a truck.
We need to force this truck totransport these drugs.
And then they saw, this truckerhas a wife and a kid.
We can use the kid as leverage.
You can use maybe the wife too.
We'll target that truck.
So it could have been somewhatplanned, but still random.
Sophia (33:03):
If Juan was kidnapped and they managed to get away, I
think all that publicityactually hurts his chances
because if people have someonethat the general public is very
well informed about and knowsabout, that puts them at risk.
Elena (33:19):
True.
It does.
And a lot of times they couldjust kill them this
disappearance is getting toomuch traction.
Too many missing person, flyersare being posted up.
Too many people know this kid'sface.
We have to get rid of him.
You didn't expect that.
I will say one more last pieceof information is that obviously
in like the months and yearshave followed, people started
reports of, Oh, I saw Juan.
(33:40):
And, a lot of these, reportsweren't really valid.
But, there was one story about1987 in May, where someone in
Madrid claims that he saw aelderly blind woman from Iranian
descent with, a little boy.
Sophia (33:59):
That's oddly specific.
Elena (34:01):
And a little boy, who's, guiding the elderly lady, Who,
they claimed to be a grandson,and the boy looked just like
Juan.
Now, while I don't know exactlywhere this took place, there's a
lot of conflicting reports aboutwhere this interaction took
place, but essentially, some guysaw an elderly woman and a child
(34:23):
walk in, and they were talking,and she mentioned somehow like,
she's not from here, they'rejust traveling, and The boy was
translating for the elderlylady, and the guy complimented
this kid, on his, Spanish, thathe, what he was speaking was
very fluent, and then that'swhen the older lady took this
(34:44):
kid's hand and kind of was like,decided okay, this conversation
needs to end quickly and kind ofmove things along.
And didn't really let this boyreally talk afterwards.
So it was very suspicious.
the boy's accent sounds likehe's from.
He's from Spain.
Sophia (34:58):
Where is this taking place?
Elena (34:59):
This is taking place in Madrid.
Sophia (35:01):
Well, he's in Spain then.
Elena (35:02):
Well,, that's what I'm saying, he's saying that this
accent.
Sophia (35:04):
This boy, what they were claiming he's Iranian.
Elena (35:07):
they were claiming that he wasn't from there, that they
just traveled there.
Oh.
But this guy's like, well.
Then why does he have an accentthat he's from here and why does
he speak so fluently?
And it wasn't until later thathe saw the missing, poster or
something of Juan where he waslike, That's who I saw.
This is who I saw.
And he went back and by then,the boy and the older lady had
(35:29):
fled.
But I do think it's interestingthat this is like the one
eyewitness account of Juan.
One that's really the only onethat holds any value,
Sophia (35:41):
did he see this, was it, you didn't say a laundromat, did
you?
Elena (35:46):
No.
I don't really know where thistook place.
I've seen multiple reports ofthis happening like a driving
school or something like that.
Different places.
I think it's possibly could havebeen some sort of government
building.
I'm not sure.
But yes, there was, essentiallyan older elderly blind woman who
came in in Madrid and it wasaccompanied by this little boy.
(36:11):
He spoke the language fluently.
He had the accent.
So it just really wasn't addingup.
And the lady, once the guycomplimented the boy's accent,
that's when the older lady beganto kind of like, okay, we're
wrapping this up, like notletting him talk anymore.
I'm taking more control.
Sophia (36:29):
It's definitely weird, but to counter that, children
have an easier way of grasping alanguage in a shorter amount of
time and accent too.
I will say if it was Juan, Juanlooks Spanish, but if somebody
wanted to pretend that he wasIranian, yeah, he could
definitely play the part, withhis feature.
I don't know what capabilitiesthey have, but I'm sure if they
(36:50):
brought him to Iran physicallyhe could pretend to fit right
in.
Elena (36:54):
Yeah, there was a report I saw once that they're saying
like the woman claimed she wasjust been there for like six
months, which I don't know ifthat's enough time for a little
boy to grasp a language fullyand then the accent as well.
D (37:07):
The boy could have been living there.
She claimed that they all movedthere.
The elderly lady claimed.
We don't know that.
Maybe she didn't want to sayanything.
Don't forget that during thattime there were a lot of
problems with Iran.
Yeah.
And many of the Iranians whowere immigrants, had a very
difficult time in Europe and theUnited States.
Right.
So it could be she was tryingnot to have much communication
(37:30):
for reasons that we are unawareof.
Elena (37:33):
And there was one report that, claimed that she had just
fled Iran.
So it's possible.
Sophia (37:39):
She could be distrustful of people.
Elena (37:39):
Right, we just fled, like, why are you talking to my
grandson?
I don't want to bring moreattention towards me than what's
necessary.
Unfortunately, that's all wereally have on this case.
What you choose to thinkhappened, it's your own choice
and your own theories.
But personally, I thinksomething happened along the way
from the crash, from thebreakfast that they had, the
(38:02):
breakfast stop, and the crashwhere Juan was taken.
Cause I, based on what I knowabout Andreas and how he was as
a father and a husband, he justdoes not seem like that kind of
person who would drive soerratically knowing his son was
in the car.
And then of course this weirdcouple that pulled up and
removed something for the carthen drove off, that's not a
(38:24):
coincidence, personally.
What are you guys kind ofleaning more towards?
D (38:27):
I don't know.
It is a little strange.
Sophia (38:30):
I think the whole thing is pretty weird.
But given that the truck wasstopping so often, and it would
be very weird for him to becrashing into people
intentionally, especially if,They're trying to transport
drugs like he has there's tracesof heroin and cocaine in that
truck and doing that is bringingattention to him So I think he'd
(38:51):
have he must have a very validreason for doing that.
If you forced me to like bet mymoney on something I'd bet my
money that somebody hadkidnapped Juan and they were
chasing after him.
Elena (39:00):
I mean, I guess it's possible maybe he just hit his
head and Has amnesia and it'sbeen 30 decades and maybe but
like I still feel like even ifthat was the case.
Sophia (39:09):
Do you think he'd still be alive with amnesia?
Elena (39:12):
He could be, he just forgot his identity and started
a new one.
Sophia (39:16):
But wouldn't people know him.
Elena (39:17):
That's the problem with that theory is,
Sophia (39:19):
I mean he could have had temporary amnesia and then maybe
like drowned in a lake orsomething.
Elena (39:23):
True, but for the theory of like permanent amnesia and
why he's never been found isjust because he's living a whole
new, different life, it'spossible, but I feel like
someone would have recognizedhim or he would have recognized
himself or gone to authoritiesor something like that.
Sophia (39:38):
I also think it's possible they just didn't find
his body.
Elena (39:41):
It's possible, but they combed through that area.
I will say and they did verythorough, search efforts, but at
the end of the day, it can't, itcould be hard.
Sophia (39:53):
Okay, not to put the spotlight on the dad, but if
this area is known for beingdifficult for truck drivers and,
being asked to carry drugs byMaybe dangerous parties.
Why would he take his wife andson along?
Elena (40:07):
I think he's done this Route a lot.
I think he's taken this tripbefore and It's possible that he
just thought like nothing's everhappened before like nothing
will happen to me.
It's possible Maybe he didn'tknow that Like I said, it was
just like a couple of reportsfrom other truckers that said
that this is possible in thearea.
Maybe it's not.
Sophia (40:26):
Or, was there something going on with the family that he
knew they were in danger, and hewanted to take them with to try
and protect them?
Something that we're unaware ofyeah, maybe they were involved
in drugs beforehand or somethingI don't know.
Elena (40:39):
It's possible.
I the family did say, you knowthat Andreas was receiving
threats to transport drugspreviously now That's true or
not.
I don't know.
I think at the beginning thefamily pushed more of the drug
theory than the investigators Ithink they wanted to just say
well, you know He was his bodyjust was dissolved in the acid
and then after that was Clearlylike debunked they didn't have
(41:03):
anywhere else to turn but Idon't know if it's necessarily
drug related But I do think mostlikely he was kidnapped somehow
By someone beforehand before thecrash I should say.
Sophia (41:15):
Were there multiple cars following them?
Elena (41:17):
I think so.
Sophia (41:19):
Just based on eyewitness reports?
Elena (41:21):
There was the car that crashed and then there was two
People further back that weren'tpart of the crash.
They were called Shepherds andherders.
So I guess they were herdingtheir goats.
Sophia (41:37):
But these people saw multiple cars.
Engaging with the truck.
Elena (41:41):
They just saw the van.
Sophia (41:43):
Oh, the van, okay.
Elena (41:44):
The Nissan van.
And investigators did try tolook into the white Nissan van
being driven by two blondepeople on white lab coats, but
there's like 3, 000 vans in thatarea that match the description,
so there wasn't much that theycould go on.
D (41:58):
The bundle that they removed from the truck, do they think
that may be drugs or Juan?
Elena (42:06):
Both are possible theories.
Sophia (42:09):
Wait, how big was his bundle?
Elena (42:11):
It was reported as like a small packet.
Now, small can mean anythingfrom like foot to maybe three,
four, five feet.
D (42:20):
Three, four, five feet is not a lot.
Elena (42:22):
Well, I guess, yeah, but it could have been like three
feet.
It could have been, it couldhave been a little boy.
you don't know.
They just had like a smallpackage.
Sophia (42:28):
We need to know the size, because a small package,
I'm imagining like a foot longpackage, which is not Juan, but
if it's four feet potentially,that could be Juan.
Elena (42:38):
It could have been maybe like Juan was already knocked
out, so he was bundled up, andthe people were further away.
These herders were further backthough, so they were pretty far
away, so they claimed that theysaw like some sort of package.
Sophia (42:50):
Wrapped in what?
Elena (42:51):
They didn't say.
Like I said, they were furtherout, and they were like, On the
mountains, they, they may nothave seen like that much.
Sophia (42:59):
I wonder if he felt like they could just not stop and ask
for help.
These people were loaded withguns or something.
Elena (43:06):
It was the eighties.
So it's, they probably didn'thave like cell phones or
anything to call the police andsay, Hey, this is what's
happening on this road.
And They just kidnapped my son.
D (43:17):
If they kidnapped him, then if they went back to the truck,
I'm assuming they went back tothe truck for the drugs.
Yeah.
Already had kidnapped the boy.
Elena (43:26):
Yeah.
I think some of the theories islike, there's probably two cars,
two vans, or some sort of twovehicles.
There's,, two theories.
One is that there were two carsversus one car, but.
There's two cars, there wouldhave been the car in the front
that took Juan, maybe the car inthe front and the back could
have forced the truck to reallynot go anywhere, took Juan out,
(43:46):
and then he was trying to chasethem, and when the truck
crashed, the car in front maynot have known that it crashed,
but the car behind them couldhave been like, Okay, we need to
take these drugs out becausethese are the drugs that we need
to transport and also we don'twant the police to find them.
The white van, The way it wasdescribed and how I interpreted
it was like it came up behindthe car, which doesn't explain,
(44:10):
why he was rapidly driving sofast that the van was behind him
unless there's another car infront of him that he was trying
to catch up with.
Unless the van circled backaround somehow.
D (44:21):
It doesn't make sense for them to kidnap Juan if he was
already doing the drugsdeliveries.
I don't understand why theywould feel the need to kidnap
Juan if he is doing already thedrug deliveries.
Elena (44:33):
I guess the theory is that he wasn't.
That they had asked him.
He could have gotten threatspreviously.
D (44:39):
But I felt the family said that he was doing it.
Elena (44:42):
No, the reports that he was being threatened to do this,
but he hadn't done it yet.
I did see a couple reports wherethe family said that he was
actively transporting drugs, butI didn't really include that
because at first, becausehonestly, I don't know if that's
(45:02):
true or not.
Because, there's no criminalrecord of him transporting
drugs.
There's no proof that he evertransported drugs.
But, some of the families didsay that he was threatened to
transport, but if he wastransporting drugs, I doubt he
would have taken his son on thattrip.
Which is why I feel like hedidn't set out.
Sophia (45:19):
Well, if he was transporting drugs, then why do
they need to threaten him?
Elena (45:22):
That's what I'm saying is I don't think he was
transporting drugs.
I think he probably said no, ormaybe he did it a little bit and
then he was like, that's it, nomore, I'm done, I'm out.
And then he was like, well,we're gonna take your kid until
you do it.
And that would be the theoriesbehind the weird 12 stops.
Maybe they, someone went infront of him and slammed the
brakes and was like, and anothercar pulled up and you need to
(45:45):
transport this drugs.
He was like, no, I'm not doingit.
And, and maybe this happened afew times and they were like,
screw this.
And like, we're just going totake your kid and you're going
to have to do it.
Or you're never going to see himagain.
D (45:56):
I wonder if maybe he was just not feeling well.
Because he did those weirdstops.
And if that's so, then there'sno drugs and no kidnapping.
And it could have been that onewas just thrown so far away.
And supposedly I think thosemountains are pretty thick and
difficult.
So maybe from his burns and allthat just happened to, pass
(46:17):
away.
And maybe they did not do athorough investigation.
Elena (46:20):
As they thought they did.
Sophia (46:22):
And the people who went to go get the package, they were
just like stealing from the car.
D (46:26):
Maybe they found drugs and took it.
Yeah, I don't know.
Sophia (46:29):
Yeah.
Elena (46:29):
It's possible.
D (46:30):
I mean, there are people who go through accidents to steal.
Elena (46:34):
Yeah, so in this theory Juan was in the car and died But
he was still transporting drugsand then people in the white van
were like, okay This is like anopportunity and just took drugs.
D (46:46):
Yeah, I mean if they did or who knows what they took.
Elena (46:49):
I definitely think that those people probably took drugs
out of the wreckage because Idon't think Juan was there.
I also feel like they probablywould have seen Blood from Juan
if they tested the blood thatthey found in the cabin to see
if any was from Juan in thecrash.
D (47:07):
Don't forget you have sulfuric acid all over the
place.
Elena (47:09):
Oh, that's true Yeah.
D (47:11):
So they are not checking for blood.
Elena (47:14):
Because that would have probably dissolved.
D (47:15):
First of all, they didn't even know there was a third
person.
Elena (47:18):
I'm saying later on, if they went back to see, was he
even in the vehicle when itcrashed, but I guess the
sulfuric acid probably wouldhave dissolved the blood.
D (47:25):
Well, the blood, yeah, if he hit blood.
And it all depends if he wasthrown out, how he was thrown
out, if he got burns, there's alot of ifs.
Elena (47:34):
There's a lot of ifs and there's a lot of questions and
this is why I wanted to do thiscase because one, it's a pretty
like well known case I feel likein Spain, but not a lot of
people know about this case andit's a very fascinating case and
there's a lot of weird twistsand turns and You're just left
with more unanswered questionsthan you are with answered.
And I want to bring this tolight because at the end of the
(47:55):
day that 10 year old boy Isstill missing after three
decades and Or decades now.
And I just I wanted to bringlight to the story and to this
little boy that unfortunately ishas never been seen again.
Alright guys, I want to thankyou all for listening to us this
week.
We love our listeners andbecause of you, we do this
(48:18):
podcast.
Your help and engagement reallyhelps the podcast grow and if
you enjoyed this episode, pleasetext a friend and family member
to listen to our podcast.
Until next time, make sure youstay on the eerie side.
Bye.
Bye.
And be safe.
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