February 20, 2025 • 34 mins
The Snowden House, a stunning lakefront estate in Arkansas, has a shocking history with unimaginable tragedy. It all starts with the brutal 1996 murders of Sally McKay and her nephew Lee by a 16-year-old family acquaintance, Travis Lewis. Decades later, in an astonishing turn of events, Sally’s daughter Martha forgives Travis and offers him a second chance, only for fate to strike again in a gruesome twist.
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Sophia (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to the Eerie Side podcast with your
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Has anyone heard of Martha McKayor Sally McKay?
D (01:21):
I don't think so.
Elena (01:23):
I don't know, I'd have to hear more about the story to
tell.
Sophia (01:25):
Okay, it seems like we're probably going in blind.
Before I get into the year, Iwant to start with a house,
specifically an old, white,columned mansion called the
Snowden House, which had athousand acres of lakefront
property and hosted parties,reunions, and weddings.
To picture it, it's a gorgeousestate built way back in 1919,
(01:48):
sitting pretty on the edge ofHorseshoe Lake in Arkansas.
Over the years, it went frombeing the heart of a tight knit
family to a charming bed andbreakfast run by Martha McKay.
Martha's family owned theSnowden house for generations,
and after living on the westcoast for a while, she would
eventually return back to it.
(02:09):
The locals even started callingher the Lady of the Lake.
She wasn't just fixing up an oldbuilding, she was breathing new
life into it, preserving thehistory and charm of the place.
But, here's the twist.
Beneath all that charm, therewas a seriously dark secret
lurking.
Let me take you back to 1996,the year that would change
(02:30):
everything.
Sally Snowden McKay, Martha'smom was 75 years old and she
took care of the day-to-dayoperations of the Snowden house
during the 1990s.
Sally had three daughters.
Grace, Katie, and Martha.
The Snowden family also mademoney from renting out
properties in Horseshoe Lake andon one of those properties lived
(02:52):
52 year old Joseph Lee Baker whowent by Lee, who was Sally's
nephew and who would help herout with managing the business.
Lee was a famous blues and rockguitarist in Memphis, Tennessee.
He had been influential in themusic scene there and had been
part of many local bands.
Sally and Lee were part of thevery well known Snowden family,
(03:15):
which owned much of the propertyin the area, including the
Peabody, a historic hotel inMemphis.
On Horseshoe Lake, which theyalso owned, they rented a
property to the Lewis family.
The wife, Gladys, was ahousekeeper at the Snowden
house.
The family also had two sons,one of whom was 16 year old
(03:37):
Travis.
So to make it clear on theproperty, there is the Snowden
house, which is where Sallylived.
There is Horseshoe Lake alsoowned by Sally.
And there's multiple propertieson the land that Sally has
rented out to her nephew, Leeand the Lewis family.
The Snowden house became thescene of a heartbreaking
tragedy.
(03:58):
On the night.
Of September 10th, 1996, Sallyand Lee were in the Snowden
house when 16 year old TravisLewis decided to break in.
Reports differ on whether Sallyand Lee were sleeping or not,
but they were in the house whenTravis broke in, which is
probably not the smartest thingfor Travis to do.
Now, while Travis's intentionswere to burglarize the home,
(04:21):
instead of a simple burglary,things escalated.
D (04:25):
Sally and Lee was sleeping in the same room?
Sophia (04:27):
No, I don't think that at all.
D (04:29):
The same house?
Sophia (04:30):
I don't think he was sleeping there necessarily.
In news sources it doesn't saywhether they were sleeping or
resting.
They were just there.
D (04:38):
The same house?
Sophia (04:40):
Yes, but Lee lived in a property that was not the house.
He lived in another property.
D (04:44):
When this happened, they were in the same house?
Sophia (04:46):
They were in the same house, but don't forget that was
her nephew.
He helped her manage thebusiness.
D (04:50):
Okay, but they weren't sleeping together or they were
in the same room or anythinglike that?
Sophia (04:54):
No, there's no mention of that at all.
And we don't even know if theywere sleeping.
They could have just beenwatching TV or whatever, doing
something else.
D (05:00):
Oh, okay.
Sophia (05:01):
The thing is they were just in the house there.
D (05:03):
The Snowden house, the big one.
Sophia (05:05):
Yes, the Snowden house.
Sally and Lee, who presumablywere caught off guard by Travis,
decided to confront him.
Travis, in a moment of panic orsheer recklessness, ends up
shooting both of them, brutallymurdering them.
And if that wasn't enough,Travis goes on to set the house
on fire, almost like he wantedto erase any trace of what he'd
(05:27):
done.
So what started as a simplebreak in has now spiraled into a
nightmare.
And later, it was determinedthat Lee's house had been broken
into as well.
The next morning, called inbecause of reports of a fire at
the Snowden house, investigatorsfound more than just smoldering
ruins.
There were scattered belongings,a dropped glove with Travis's
(05:49):
fingerprints, and even a bit ofhis DNA and a broken piece of
furniture.
All these clues quickly led thepolice straight to Travis.
Witnesses remembered seeing thekid running off in the dark and
a nearby security camera, eventhough grainy helped confirm his
identity.
Travis and his brother had beenfriends with Lee's sons, and the
families had known each other.
(06:10):
Travis told the police he hadnothing to do with the crime,
but they later realized that hewas suspended from school on the
day of the murders.
He was asked to take a polygraphtest.
While he passed initially, hewas asked to take another one,
which he failed.
In no time, the authoritiestracked him down and he was
arrested at a local hangout spotjust a few blocks away.
It all happened so fast that thecommunity was left in shock,
(06:33):
grappling with the brutalreality of that night.
D (06:36):
I have a question.
Why was Travis suspended fromschool?
Sophia (06:42):
According to reports, he was involved in a fight at
school and had been sent home.
D (06:48):
Okay.
Elena (06:49):
So he burned the house down, but there's still DNA
evidence left behind.
Is it because his, like thehouse was probably really big.
Sophia (06:58):
So yes, even though he burned it down, the structure
was still there.
So it wasn't like it wascompletely flattened and brought
to the ground.
So I'm assuming they were stillable to gather some evidence
from it.
Elena (07:10):
Okay.
D (07:10):
Did he use an accelerator?
Sophia (07:13):
I don't know.
They never mentioned anaccelerator.
D (07:15):
Maybe that's why there was DNA or fingerprints because it
probably didn't burn completelythrough.
Elena (07:22):
Yeah.
Sophia (07:23):
Upon interrogation, Travis confessed that he had
decided to break into LeeBaker's house, but also
implicated another friend ofhis, and said that it was the
both of them who committed theburglary.
Travis stated that it was hisfriend who killed Sally and Lee,
but police found no evidencetying his friend to the crime.
Sally's car was found to havebeen crashed not too far from
(07:44):
her house, and Travisfingerprints were found on the
passenger side of the car.
Furthermore, his DNA was a matchto the hair that was found
inside the car.
D (07:55):
He killed them and then he went and stole the car and drove
it away?
Sophia (08:01):
That is correct.
D (08:02):
But they didn't find fingerprints on the driver's
side, just the passenger's side?
Elena (08:06):
Yeah, I'm confused about that too.
Sophia (08:08):
Yes, I don't know why that is, but they did find his
DNA in the car and fingerprints.
D (08:16):
Okay.
Elena (08:17):
Interesting.
Sophia (08:19):
Now here's where it gets even crazier.
After the murders, Travis asquickly caught, charged as an
adult with two counts of capitalmurder and one count of
burglary, and he eventuallypleaded guilty to the crimes
which spared him from having toface the death penalty which
capital murder carries.
D (08:36):
You said Travis is 16 at this point?
Sophia (08:38):
He was 16 when he committed the crimes and 17 when
he went to prison.
D (08:42):
So they decided that it'd be best to charged him as an adult.
Sophia (08:46):
Yes.
D (08:47):
And not an adolescent.
Sophia (08:48):
Yes.
D (08:50):
And, if I remember correctly, his mother worked for Sally?
Sophia (08:55):
Yep, she was a housekeeper.
D (08:57):
Okay, that's what I thought.
Sophia (08:59):
And also Travis lived on the property too.
So because Travis pleadedguilty, Travis was handed a
sentence of 28 and a half yearsin prison.
But this did not close thechapter on this tragedy because
life, as it turns out, isn'tthat simple.
After the tragic events thatunfolded in 1996, Martha McKay,
Sally's daughter, took it uponherself to restore the Snowden
(09:22):
house.
She invested time and resourcesinto bringing the once grand
mansion back to life.
The fire had caused quite a bitof damage, and while the
structure itself wasn't entirelydestroyed, much of the interior
had been ravaged by the flames.
Despite this, Martha workedtirelessly to rebuild, not only
repairing the physical parts ofthe house, but also attempting
(09:43):
to reestablish it as a place ofpositivity, turning it into a
bed and breakfast with the goalof rejuvenating its spirit and
legacy.
However, even as she rebuilt thehome, the dark shadow of the
past seemed to linger, creatingan eerie sense of history and
haunting.
When Martha initially lost hermother and cousin, she was
(10:04):
obviously devastated, as was thecommunity too.
But let's fast forward a coupleof decades to when Travis Lewis
gets paroled around 2018.
And here's the kicker.
Instead of burning bridges orseeking vengeance, Martha,
despite all the pain and lossshe had suffered, decided to
forgive him.
Yes, you heard that right.
(10:25):
Martha reached out to Traviswhile he was still behind bars.
She truly believed that peoplecan change and that redemption
is possible, no matter how deepthe scars of the past might be.
You see, Martha was a Buddhist,so she believed in forgiveness.
So when Travis got out, Marthanot only welcomed him back into
her life, but even offered him ajob at the Snowden house and a
(10:48):
place to stay, right back wherethis all started.
Elena (10:51):
Boy, so she hired him back after all that?
Sophia (10:56):
Oh yeah.
D (10:57):
Is there any information that Travis has some mental issues or
that he's in crime a lot oranything like that?
Or was he an ideal prisoner?
Sophia (11:10):
When it comes to Travis's behavior in prison, it
seems like he reflected on hisactions but it's not really
clear that he had a completetransformation.
Some sources implied that heunderwent counseling and worked
on personal rehabilitation whileothers suggested that he mostly
kept to himself.
He reportedly expressed remorsefor his deeds, which may have
(11:33):
contributed to a sentence beingreduced and eventually him being
given parole.
I didn't see any sources aboutwhether Travis was an ideal
prisoner or not, but she clearlybelieved that he was possible of
reform.
And yeah, she not only offeredhim a job, but he was living on
the property too.
D (11:53):
The other thing is if he expressed remorse, he could have
done it to reduce his prisonsentence and not because he
really was remorse.
Sophia (12:02):
True.
Very true.
And I think prisoners are awareof that too.
He was described as pretty quietand compliant, but who knows if
he did that because that was himor because he wanted to get out.
But one way or another, it seemslike he is able to behave, if he
wants to.
I think.
I don't know.
I'm making an assumption here.
(12:23):
And this relatively calmbehavior of his that granted him
parole is what convinced Marthathat people could change.
D (12:31):
In 1996, did they do any testing on him?
They assumed he killed them justfor the heck of it.
Really, this sounds ridiculous.
He knows them.
Unless he killed them because heknew they knew him, or did they
think there was something wrongwith him or anything of that
sort?
Sophia (12:47):
There's no mention of that.
So I have no idea if theythought there was something
wrong with them or they testedhim or not.
There was no mention of that.
D (12:54):
I'm also still confused about the fire since it seemed that
the fire destroyed the housemore or less.
I'm surprised they were able tofind DNA and fingerprints.
Sophia (13:06):
I don't know why they were.
I just know that they were.
Elena (13:08):
If the house wasn't damaged, that badly that would
explain why the fingerprintswere still there and how they
were still able to keep thehouse.
D (13:17):
Yes, but from our story of the yogurt killings in Austin
the fire and the water, you pourwater in an area, it damages and
you lose evidence.
And the fire department wascalled, I assume, and I assume
they did use water to put outthe fire.
(13:37):
So I'm surprised that they wouldbe able to find evidence.
Elena (13:41):
True.
Sophia (13:43):
So what Martha did in the situation, you know,
allowing Travis to come back andhave a job and live with her,
it's certainly not for everyone,but to do that takes a kind of
bravery and compassion that'sjust very hard to fathom.
That is definitely Martha.
And here's the thing, I'massuming that because Travis
grew up on Horseshoe Lake, andbecause his mom was a
(14:04):
housekeeper there, maybe Marthaknew him in some way and wanted
to give him a second chance?
I can't say that for surebecause I couldn't find in any
news sources that they had anysort of relationship prior to
the murders.
So I don't know for sure, but Iwouldn't be surprised if some
sort of previous relationshipcontributed to her decision to
bring him back into her life andgive him a second chance,
(14:25):
especially since she knew theirfamily.
But here's something else I needto share.
Travis's mother, Gladys, toldMartha just stay away from
Travis because he's going backto his old ways.
Now to me that's a warning andsome foreshadowing too.
D (14:43):
What does old ways mean?
Because when he killed and didwhat he did the first time,
there was nothing mentionedabout his ways other than he got
into a fight at school.
Elena (14:58):
Yeah I'm confused about that and also what is he doing
now that's making her thinkthat?
Sophia (15:03):
It doesn't expand upon that.
It doesn't say what she thought.
I'm not sure she even toldMartha what she thought and as
to why she thought he wasreturning to his old ways.
But clearly there was somethingthat made Gladys think that
Martha should stay away from himand that he wasn't safe.
And I assume his old ways meanttrouble because he did get into
(15:28):
a fight at school, he murderedtwo people, and he also was in
the process of burglarizingthem, and then he did commit
arson.
So I'm assuming that's what shemeans by his old ways.
Elena (15:41):
Okay, thank you.
Sophia (15:42):
At first, everything at the Snowden house seemed to be
turning around.
Martha's act of forgiveness wasseen by a lot of folks as
nothing short of heroic.
A genuine chance for a freshstart.
But people in the community weredivided, though.
Some admired her for her bigheart and willingness to let go
of old grudges, while othersthought it was a huge risk.
Imagine being in her shoes.
(16:04):
You've lost your mom and yourcousin in the most tragic way
possible, and instead of lettinganger fester, you extend a hand
to the person who caused allthat pain.
It's the kind of decision thatmakes you sit back and ask, what
would I do in that situation?
I'm curious, what do you allthink about what she did in that
situation, having the ability toforgive, but not only forgive,
(16:26):
to actually try and have arelationship, a close
relationship in some ways withthis individual.
Elena (16:32):
I mean to each their own, but personally, I don't think I
would do that.
I just don't think I could lookat the person every day after
that.
Even if I could findforgiveness, I don't think I'd
be able to.
D (16:44):
I do believe that individuals should have second chances.
I'm not sure if I would havewanted to give him the second
chance and be near me.
The other thing is sometimes youneed to wonder why people are
creating this crime and if hehad issues and he still has
(17:06):
issues.
I would not want him near me,and because of the situation, I
would say he would probablystill need to get some
assistance and help.
So I wouldn't say no as far ashim getting a second chance, but
I think it'd be better if he wasin a halfway house where they
would monitor him, as he's outin the real world and not near
(17:27):
me.
The way I see it, I would havefelt pain with this individual
and I would say I would bereliving it.
So I would say give him a secondchance but not near me.
Elena (17:40):
Yeah, I would agree with that one too.
Sophia (17:42):
That's a good way to put it.
I think if I had to see thatperson every single day, it
would be hard to continue toforgive them.
And I think there coulddefinitely be some resentment.
And also, I believe in secondchances for certain people.
There are some crimes andsituations that are way too
heinous.
He was underage at that timetoo, so she could have thought
(18:05):
or made the argument that maybehis brain wasn't developed.
At the same time, along the samelines of what you said, mom,
while I would want him to have asecond chance, I don't think I
would feel comfortable or trusthim enough to have that second
chance be with me.
For a while, it almost seemedlike Martha's Gamble was paying
off.
(18:25):
The Snowden house buzzed withnew energy and there was a sense
that maybe, just maybe, oldwounds could heal.
But, and you know how life lovesits twists, the past has a nasty
way of catching up with you.
Then came March 25th, 2020,right at the beginning of COVID
actually, which doesn't reallymatter in the story, but is more
(18:46):
of an interesting fact.
At this point, Martha is 63 andTravis is 39.
Late that night, Martha McKaywas found murdered in her own
home.
It was brutal.
She had been stabbed andbludgeoned.
Upon arriving at the home,deputies found the back door
open.
D (19:05):
Is this the bed and breakfast?
Sophia (19:08):
Yes, it's the bed and breakfast, which is the Snowden
house,
D (19:11):
The only person they found dead was Martha.
Sophia (19:13):
Martha.
D (19:14):
They did not find that any guests over the B and B, or was
it because it was COVID?
No one was there.
Sophia (19:20):
That's a good question.
I don't know.
They don't mention there beingany guests there, so perhaps
there weren't any.
D (19:27):
Okay.
Sophia (19:29):
Inside, they found a man, later identified as Travis,
who jumped out of an upstairswindow, ran to his vehicle, and
drove across the property.
When the vehicle got stuck inthe yard, Travis jumped from the
car and ran into the lake.
He was seen going under thewater and never came back up.
Using sonar equipment, membersof the Crittenden County Search
(19:52):
and Rescue Team were able tolocate and recover Travis's
body.
When they conducted an autopsyon Travis's body, they found
cocaine, meth, and marijuana inhis system.
When police discovered Martha'sbody at the top of the stairs,
they also found a cloth bag ontop of a nearby chair containing
several valuables and a bloodykitchen knife.
(20:15):
Travis was intending to stealthese valuables, however, it was
not determined whether hisintentions were to burglarize
Martha's home and she was killedin the process, or if his
intention was to murder Marthaand opted to steal the items.
Whatever his motive, he hadfound a benefactor in Martha.
Elena (20:35):
Wow, that's surprising, but at the same time not because
he did end up going back to hisold ways.
D (20:42):
Was he taking drugs during the first crime?
Sophia (20:46):
I have no idea.
D (20:48):
Because now he's on drugs, which of course does not help
him making the right decisions.
I think the way he reacts showsthat he was not okay.
You don't jump out of a window,go to a car, drive on a property
where it's probably grass andwho knows what else.
(21:09):
And then get stuck and then jumpin a lake, especially if you
don't know how to swim, which itsounds like he didn't.
Elena (21:17):
That or he was just too high to function and to swim and
he and accidentally drowned.
D (21:23):
That's true.
Elena (21:24):
And he was just like not in his right mind.
So he just ran into the lake
Sophia (21:28):
Or he just doesn't make very smart decisions, which is
probably a sign of something.
But think about it, he, this isthe second time he's committed a
crime in a way where he iscaught really red handed in some
ways.
Elena (21:44):
I wonder if it was really his intention sober to do that
or if he had gotten high and hejust thought that oh, he'll just
steal some things.
And then it happened again thesame way.
And I'm wondering if he was highthat first time too and he
wasn't in the right mind becauseof the drugs and he instead of
(22:05):
just running away or whatever hekilled them and did the same
now.
D (22:12):
The steps he took after the crime definitely shows there's
some illogical thought process.
Sophia (22:19):
100 percent.
D (22:21):
I don't think jumping from a window, getting into a car and
all that, especially if he'shigh, that could, that makes
sense that his thought processwas affected by the drugs.
Sophia (22:33):
In some ways, I think he's pretty impulsive.
Elena (22:38):
Definitely, I think one based off his actions and then
his willingness to do all thosedrugs at once shows that he
doesn't think his actions, sodefinitely not when he's high as
well.
Sophia (22:48):
It also makes me wonder because this happened the exact
same time, twice, was he thereto burglarize and again made the
mistake and did not know therewere people in the house or did
he go with the intention to doboth?
D (23:01):
It appears to me that maybe both times he was trying to rob
the place for drugs if he neededmoney for drugs.
Elena (23:10):
Yeah, I would agree.
It doesn't seem like at leastthe first time or even the
second time that his intentionswere to harm a person.
It seems like he went in to roband because he wasn't in his
right mind, just made the worstdecision possible and killed
them.
Sophia (23:26):
And he had a good job, so he could have kept using that
to fund drugs perhaps, but maybeit wasn't enough to cover his
needs and drugs.
Elena (23:36):
How long did he work there before?
He decided to do this.
Sophia (23:41):
I want to say two years.
Cause he was released in 2018, Ithink.
And then he killed Martha in2020.
Elena (23:50):
Cause it seems like if he really wanted to kill her for
whatever reason, maybe in someweird way, revenge, although to
me that doesn't make sense.
He had plenty of time to do it.
So that's why I'm wondering ifthis murder was more drug
related and there's some other,underlying mental illness issues
here.
D (24:10):
I'm wondering if there isn't some mental issues also involved
here.
And if he was clean in jail,then it would have been easier
for him to keep clean, when hecame out.
I would think, but it looks likehe went back to his old ways.
Sophia (24:26):
Prisoners can still find drugs in jail.
So he may not have been clean injail.
Elena (24:32):
Even if they are clean, the second they get out, they
can always start up again.
And I know like adjusting frombeing in the prison back into
society can be very stressfuland very difficult.
Sophia (24:44):
I will say, like I think with most people who murder or
commit crimes, I think there'ssomething wrong with him because
it doesn't benefit him or anyonewho commits a murder to actually
do it.
I actually think you're harmingyourself by doing that.
So I do think there's somethingwrong with him for committing
these crimes.
D (25:05):
I also think by having his mother work on the property and
then committing a crime reallyis an embarrassing situation for
his family.
And if he really cared, he wouldhave some remorse and felt bad
that he did this, and it alsoembarrassed the family.
But I don't think that was theway he thought, because he did
(25:28):
it again.
So I think there's some mentalillness involved here.
I may be wrong.
Sophia (25:33):
I think you're right.
I don't think he thinks likethat.
And I wouldn't have necessarilyexpected him to think like that
at 16, 17, but as he grew up inprison to eventually come to
terms with that.
But his mother, Gladys, she eventold Martha, hey, watch out.
So she seemed to accept andunderstand who her son was to
not be in denial of that.
(25:54):
So that's interesting.
Elena (25:57):
I wonder if there is something already going on, and
the drugs, and maybe he wasusing drugs at a young age, 15,
16, and that amplified things,and that led to the burglary,
and then making an awfuldecision to murder, or if he was
surrounded by bad people, maybebad peers, who introduced him to
(26:19):
drugs, and that just damaged himin the way he his thought
process was because his brain isstill developing and that caused
him to act the way he did.
I don't know but i'm curious iswhat caused what?
Sophia (26:33):
Who's to say what causes there's so many assumptions or
theories we could come up with.
So get this, it wasn't untilafter Martha's death that her
family learned a secret from herdiary.
Before Martha's murder, hersister sold a chandelier for
about ten to fifteen thousanddollars in cash, depending on
(26:53):
which source you read, and waskeeping the money at Snowden
House to help fund house repairsand renovations.
Travis was at the house the dayMartha came home with this
money, which then vanished.
Once the money vanished, Marthaquickly fired Travis.
So, at the time of the murder,Martha had ended her ties with
(27:14):
Travis.
Elena (27:16):
Okay.
I think he probably was angrythat he had gotten fired and
probably went back and becausehe was upset, took the drugs and
in his fit of anger, and justfrom being high, went in to rob
and then when he saw her, heprobably just, like, a switch
(27:36):
was, flipped and he justattacked her.
D (27:38):
If$10,000 to$15,000 are missing, you know he's using it
for drugs.
Elena (27:43):
Yeah.
D (27:44):
So his drug money ran out.
Elena (27:46):
Mm hmm.
And he needed more.
Sophia (27:49):
I think it was all about the money for him.
He took it, and maybe she didn'tcatch him in the act, which is
why he didn't murder her, butwhen she found out she fired
him.
And, at that point, when he wentto go and steal something else,
and she most likely caught himin the act, he decided to murder
her.
Maybe it was all about themoney.
Elena (28:10):
Yeah, I think it was about the money, and then, when
he was caught, he either did itbecause he thought he could get
away with it, he wasn't thinkingright because of the drugs, or
was in a fit of rage.
I don't know why, but I'mguessing it was probably
something along those lines.
Sophia (28:26):
It's interesting because at the time this all happened,
Martha seemed to have realizedand accepted that Travis had not
changed after all.
And yet this still happened.
Martha was known for her largerthan life presence and good
heart.
She loved her house.
After all this went down, thelocal community was left in
shock.
(28:46):
Just think about it.
Here was a woman who had shownwhat many would call the
ultimate act of forgiveness, andyet her trust ended in
heartbreak and violence.
People began debating Martha'sdecision to forgive Travis.
Was it a sign of unparalleledcompassion or was it a naive
risk that left her vulnerable?
While forgiveness is a beautifulthing in theory, there's a line
(29:09):
where you have to think aboutyour own safety too.
It's hard not to be moved byMartha's story.
Here's a woman who, aftersuffering unimaginable loss,
managed to find the strength toforgive.
That takes a kind of resiliencethat you rarely see.
Yet, at the same time, herdecision highlights the painful
reality that sometimes our bestintentions can lead to
(29:31):
unforeseen consequences.
Imagine being her, holding on tohope that people can truly
change, only to face a nightmarethat upends everything you
believed in.
I can't blame Martha for wantingto have compassion and
forgiveness.
She was a beautiful soul forthat, and maybe she hoped to
have some relief by forgivinghim as well.
(29:51):
And while I do think people canchange, this unfortunately is an
example of how some people neverwill.
And I think by Martha firingTravis before this all went
down, she realized this too.
But still, it must have come toolate.
D (30:08):
That's the risk you take when you do what Martha did.
Sophia (30:12):
And I think we all take that in our own lives in
different ways.
When someone hurts us or breaksour trust which every single one
of us experiences and youexperience in every single kind
of relationship, even healthyrelationships.
You have to decide, okay, can Itrust this person again?
And how are we going to work torestore the relationship and the
(30:32):
trusts and all of that.
Elena (30:34):
Yeah, I think she did what she had to do in order for
her to move on.
It was just unfortunate thatthat involved working and
trusting with someone who didnot deserve that trust and did
not earn it and misused it andbetrayed her, unfortunately.
Sophia (30:54):
True, because I think there are a good amount of
criminals, and perhaps evenpeople who've murdered people,
especially if they were youngerand they just were not thinking
correctly, who could be able tobe rehabilitated back into
society, and who would be sograteful to have the opportunity
that Martha provided.
I think there are so many peoplewho would wish that they would
(31:18):
have had a Martha in thesituation that Travis did, and
he just took it for granted.
Elena (31:24):
Agreed.
D (31:25):
I assume for him to get suspended to get into a fight
that this may have not been thefirst time he got into a fight
at school.
Sophia (31:34):
I'm not sure but I would not be surprised if it was not
the first time.
D (31:38):
Is there any mention of him taking drugs when he was
younger?
Sophia (31:43):
Some friends and family members have stated that Travis
experimented with drugs in hisyouth, so that may have
contributed to some of hisbehavioral problems.
So, it's possible.
And if he was using drugs likesome of his family members and
friends have stated, It's notreally gone into too deeply and
it's not very emphasized.
(32:03):
It's not like Travis has been onthese drugs, and we're so
devastated and he wasn't likealways like this.
People do not dwell on it inthis instance.
I don't know what effect thishas, but it's definitely not
talked about or dwelled on.
D (32:20):
It was 1996, if I'm not mistaken, which I think.
At that point, they probablythink the drugs just made him
make a bad decision.
They may not have said, why ishe taking the drugs?
If there's an underlying issueof mental illness or behavior
issues or something causing it.
(32:42):
I think they just said, oh, hewas a bad apple or something of
that sort, instead of reallylooking at the problem.
Sophia (32:49):
Well said, Mom.
I want to thank you forlistening to us this week.
We love our listeners andbecause of you, we do this
podcast.
Your help and engagement reallyhelps the podcast grow.
If you enjoyed this episode,please text a friend and family
member to listen to our podcast.
Until next time, make sure youstay on the Eerie Side.
(33:12):
Bye, guys.
Bye.
Bye.
And be safe.
Hey guys, welcome to the Eerie Side podcast with your
hosts, Sophia, Elena, and D.
We appreciate you guyslistening, and I hope you're
ready to get on the Eerie Side.
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Has anyone heard of Martha McKayor Sally McKay?
D (01:21):
I don't think so.
Elena (01:23):
I don't know, I'd have to hear more about the story to
tell.
Sophia (01:25):
Okay, it seems like we're probably going in blind.
Before I get into the year, Iwant to start with a house,
specifically an old, white,columned mansion called the
Snowden House, which had athousand acres of lakefront
property and hosted parties,reunions, and weddings.
To picture it, it's a gorgeousestate built way back in 1919,
(01:48):
sitting pretty on the edge ofHorseshoe Lake in Arkansas.
Over the years, it went frombeing the heart of a tight knit
family to a charming bed andbreakfast run by Martha McKay.
Martha's family owned theSnowden house for generations,
and after living on the westcoast for a while, she would
eventually return back to it.
(02:09):
The locals even started callingher the Lady of the Lake.
She wasn't just fixing up an oldbuilding, she was breathing new
life into it, preserving thehistory and charm of the place.
But, here's the twist.
Beneath all that charm, therewas a seriously dark secret
lurking.
Let me take you back to 1996,the year that would change
(02:30):
everything.
Sally Snowden McKay, Martha'smom was 75 years old and she
took care of the day-to-dayoperations of the Snowden house
during the 1990s.
Sally had three daughters.
Grace, Katie, and Martha.
The Snowden family also mademoney from renting out
properties in Horseshoe Lake andon one of those properties lived
(02:52):
52 year old Joseph Lee Baker whowent by Lee, who was Sally's
nephew and who would help herout with managing the business.
Lee was a famous blues and rockguitarist in Memphis, Tennessee.
He had been influential in themusic scene there and had been
part of many local bands.
Sally and Lee were part of thevery well known Snowden family,
(03:15):
which owned much of the propertyin the area, including the
Peabody, a historic hotel inMemphis.
On Horseshoe Lake, which theyalso owned, they rented a
property to the Lewis family.
The wife, Gladys, was ahousekeeper at the Snowden
house.
The family also had two sons,one of whom was 16 year old
(03:37):
Travis.
So to make it clear on theproperty, there is the Snowden
house, which is where Sallylived.
There is Horseshoe Lake alsoowned by Sally.
And there's multiple propertieson the land that Sally has
rented out to her nephew, Leeand the Lewis family.
The Snowden house became thescene of a heartbreaking
tragedy.
(03:58):
On the night.
Of September 10th, 1996, Sallyand Lee were in the Snowden
house when 16 year old TravisLewis decided to break in.
Reports differ on whether Sallyand Lee were sleeping or not,
but they were in the house whenTravis broke in, which is
probably not the smartest thingfor Travis to do.
Now, while Travis's intentionswere to burglarize the home,
(04:21):
instead of a simple burglary,things escalated.
D (04:25):
Sally and Lee was sleeping in the same room?
Sophia (04:27):
No, I don't think that at all.
D (04:29):
The same house?
Sophia (04:30):
I don't think he was sleeping there necessarily.
In news sources it doesn't saywhether they were sleeping or
resting.
They were just there.
D (04:38):
The same house?
Sophia (04:40):
Yes, but Lee lived in a property that was not the house.
He lived in another property.
D (04:44):
When this happened, they were in the same house?
Sophia (04:46):
They were in the same house, but don't forget that was
her nephew.
He helped her manage thebusiness.
D (04:50):
Okay, but they weren't sleeping together or they were
in the same room or anythinglike that?
Sophia (04:54):
No, there's no mention of that at all.
And we don't even know if theywere sleeping.
They could have just beenwatching TV or whatever, doing
something else.
D (05:00):
Oh, okay.
Sophia (05:01):
The thing is they were just in the house there.
D (05:03):
The Snowden house, the big one.
Sophia (05:05):
Yes, the Snowden house.
Sally and Lee, who presumablywere caught off guard by Travis,
decided to confront him.
Travis, in a moment of panic orsheer recklessness, ends up
shooting both of them, brutallymurdering them.
And if that wasn't enough,Travis goes on to set the house
on fire, almost like he wantedto erase any trace of what he'd
(05:27):
done.
So what started as a simplebreak in has now spiraled into a
nightmare.
And later, it was determinedthat Lee's house had been broken
into as well.
The next morning, called inbecause of reports of a fire at
the Snowden house, investigatorsfound more than just smoldering
ruins.
There were scattered belongings,a dropped glove with Travis's
(05:49):
fingerprints, and even a bit ofhis DNA and a broken piece of
furniture.
All these clues quickly led thepolice straight to Travis.
Witnesses remembered seeing thekid running off in the dark and
a nearby security camera, eventhough grainy helped confirm his
identity.
Travis and his brother had beenfriends with Lee's sons, and the
families had known each other.
(06:10):
Travis told the police he hadnothing to do with the crime,
but they later realized that hewas suspended from school on the
day of the murders.
He was asked to take a polygraphtest.
While he passed initially, hewas asked to take another one,
which he failed.
In no time, the authoritiestracked him down and he was
arrested at a local hangout spotjust a few blocks away.
It all happened so fast that thecommunity was left in shock,
(06:33):
grappling with the brutalreality of that night.
D (06:36):
I have a question.
Why was Travis suspended fromschool?
Sophia (06:42):
According to reports, he was involved in a fight at
school and had been sent home.
D (06:48):
Okay.
Elena (06:49):
So he burned the house down, but there's still DNA
evidence left behind.
Is it because his, like thehouse was probably really big.
Sophia (06:58):
So yes, even though he burned it down, the structure
was still there.
So it wasn't like it wascompletely flattened and brought
to the ground.
So I'm assuming they were stillable to gather some evidence
from it.
Elena (07:10):
Okay.
D (07:10):
Did he use an accelerator?
Sophia (07:13):
I don't know.
They never mentioned anaccelerator.
D (07:15):
Maybe that's why there was DNA or fingerprints because it
probably didn't burn completelythrough.
Elena (07:22):
Yeah.
Sophia (07:23):
Upon interrogation, Travis confessed that he had
decided to break into LeeBaker's house, but also
implicated another friend ofhis, and said that it was the
both of them who committed theburglary.
Travis stated that it was hisfriend who killed Sally and Lee,
but police found no evidencetying his friend to the crime.
Sally's car was found to havebeen crashed not too far from
(07:44):
her house, and Travisfingerprints were found on the
passenger side of the car.
Furthermore, his DNA was a matchto the hair that was found
inside the car.
D (07:55):
He killed them and then he went and stole the car and drove
it away?
Sophia (08:01):
That is correct.
D (08:02):
But they didn't find fingerprints on the driver's
side, just the passenger's side?
Elena (08:06):
Yeah, I'm confused about that too.
Sophia (08:08):
Yes, I don't know why that is, but they did find his
DNA in the car and fingerprints.
D (08:16):
Okay.
Elena (08:17):
Interesting.
Sophia (08:19):
Now here's where it gets even crazier.
After the murders, Travis asquickly caught, charged as an
adult with two counts of capitalmurder and one count of
burglary, and he eventuallypleaded guilty to the crimes
which spared him from having toface the death penalty which
capital murder carries.
D (08:36):
You said Travis is 16 at this point?
Sophia (08:38):
He was 16 when he committed the crimes and 17 when
he went to prison.
D (08:42):
So they decided that it'd be best to charged him as an adult.
Sophia (08:46):
Yes.
D (08:47):
And not an adolescent.
Sophia (08:48):
Yes.
D (08:50):
And, if I remember correctly, his mother worked for Sally?
Sophia (08:55):
Yep, she was a housekeeper.
D (08:57):
Okay, that's what I thought.
Sophia (08:59):
And also Travis lived on the property too.
So because Travis pleadedguilty, Travis was handed a
sentence of 28 and a half yearsin prison.
But this did not close thechapter on this tragedy because
life, as it turns out, isn'tthat simple.
After the tragic events thatunfolded in 1996, Martha McKay,
Sally's daughter, took it uponherself to restore the Snowden
(09:22):
house.
She invested time and resourcesinto bringing the once grand
mansion back to life.
The fire had caused quite a bitof damage, and while the
structure itself wasn't entirelydestroyed, much of the interior
had been ravaged by the flames.
Despite this, Martha workedtirelessly to rebuild, not only
repairing the physical parts ofthe house, but also attempting
(09:43):
to reestablish it as a place ofpositivity, turning it into a
bed and breakfast with the goalof rejuvenating its spirit and
legacy.
However, even as she rebuilt thehome, the dark shadow of the
past seemed to linger, creatingan eerie sense of history and
haunting.
When Martha initially lost hermother and cousin, she was
(10:04):
obviously devastated, as was thecommunity too.
But let's fast forward a coupleof decades to when Travis Lewis
gets paroled around 2018.
And here's the kicker.
Instead of burning bridges orseeking vengeance, Martha,
despite all the pain and lossshe had suffered, decided to
forgive him.
Yes, you heard that right.
(10:25):
Martha reached out to Traviswhile he was still behind bars.
She truly believed that peoplecan change and that redemption
is possible, no matter how deepthe scars of the past might be.
You see, Martha was a Buddhist,so she believed in forgiveness.
So when Travis got out, Marthanot only welcomed him back into
her life, but even offered him ajob at the Snowden house and a
(10:48):
place to stay, right back wherethis all started.
Elena (10:51):
Boy, so she hired him back after all that?
Sophia (10:56):
Oh yeah.
D (10:57):
Is there any information that Travis has some mental issues or
that he's in crime a lot oranything like that?
Or was he an ideal prisoner?
Sophia (11:10):
When it comes to Travis's behavior in prison, it
seems like he reflected on hisactions but it's not really
clear that he had a completetransformation.
Some sources implied that heunderwent counseling and worked
on personal rehabilitation whileothers suggested that he mostly
kept to himself.
He reportedly expressed remorsefor his deeds, which may have
(11:33):
contributed to a sentence beingreduced and eventually him being
given parole.
I didn't see any sources aboutwhether Travis was an ideal
prisoner or not, but she clearlybelieved that he was possible of
reform.
And yeah, she not only offeredhim a job, but he was living on
the property too.
D (11:53):
The other thing is if he expressed remorse, he could have
done it to reduce his prisonsentence and not because he
really was remorse.
Sophia (12:02):
True.
Very true.
And I think prisoners are awareof that too.
He was described as pretty quietand compliant, but who knows if
he did that because that was himor because he wanted to get out.
But one way or another, it seemslike he is able to behave, if he
wants to.
I think.
I don't know.
I'm making an assumption here.
(12:23):
And this relatively calmbehavior of his that granted him
parole is what convinced Marthathat people could change.
D (12:31):
In 1996, did they do any testing on him?
They assumed he killed them justfor the heck of it.
Really, this sounds ridiculous.
He knows them.
Unless he killed them because heknew they knew him, or did they
think there was something wrongwith him or anything of that
sort?
Sophia (12:47):
There's no mention of that.
So I have no idea if theythought there was something
wrong with them or they testedhim or not.
There was no mention of that.
D (12:54):
I'm also still confused about the fire since it seemed that
the fire destroyed the housemore or less.
I'm surprised they were able tofind DNA and fingerprints.
Sophia (13:06):
I don't know why they were.
I just know that they were.
Elena (13:08):
If the house wasn't damaged, that badly that would
explain why the fingerprintswere still there and how they
were still able to keep thehouse.
D (13:17):
Yes, but from our story of the yogurt killings in Austin
the fire and the water, you pourwater in an area, it damages and
you lose evidence.
And the fire department wascalled, I assume, and I assume
they did use water to put outthe fire.
(13:37):
So I'm surprised that they wouldbe able to find evidence.
Elena (13:41):
True.
Sophia (13:43):
So what Martha did in the situation, you know,
allowing Travis to come back andhave a job and live with her,
it's certainly not for everyone,but to do that takes a kind of
bravery and compassion that'sjust very hard to fathom.
That is definitely Martha.
And here's the thing, I'massuming that because Travis
grew up on Horseshoe Lake, andbecause his mom was a
(14:04):
housekeeper there, maybe Marthaknew him in some way and wanted
to give him a second chance?
I can't say that for surebecause I couldn't find in any
news sources that they had anysort of relationship prior to
the murders.
So I don't know for sure, but Iwouldn't be surprised if some
sort of previous relationshipcontributed to her decision to
bring him back into her life andgive him a second chance,
(14:25):
especially since she knew theirfamily.
But here's something else I needto share.
Travis's mother, Gladys, toldMartha just stay away from
Travis because he's going backto his old ways.
Now to me that's a warning andsome foreshadowing too.
D (14:43):
What does old ways mean?
Because when he killed and didwhat he did the first time,
there was nothing mentionedabout his ways other than he got
into a fight at school.
Elena (14:58):
Yeah I'm confused about that and also what is he doing
now that's making her thinkthat?
Sophia (15:03):
It doesn't expand upon that.
It doesn't say what she thought.
I'm not sure she even toldMartha what she thought and as
to why she thought he wasreturning to his old ways.
But clearly there was somethingthat made Gladys think that
Martha should stay away from himand that he wasn't safe.
And I assume his old ways meanttrouble because he did get into
(15:28):
a fight at school, he murderedtwo people, and he also was in
the process of burglarizingthem, and then he did commit
arson.
So I'm assuming that's what shemeans by his old ways.
Elena (15:41):
Okay, thank you.
Sophia (15:42):
At first, everything at the Snowden house seemed to be
turning around.
Martha's act of forgiveness wasseen by a lot of folks as
nothing short of heroic.
A genuine chance for a freshstart.
But people in the community weredivided, though.
Some admired her for her bigheart and willingness to let go
of old grudges, while othersthought it was a huge risk.
Imagine being in her shoes.
(16:04):
You've lost your mom and yourcousin in the most tragic way
possible, and instead of lettinganger fester, you extend a hand
to the person who caused allthat pain.
It's the kind of decision thatmakes you sit back and ask, what
would I do in that situation?
I'm curious, what do you allthink about what she did in that
situation, having the ability toforgive, but not only forgive,
(16:26):
to actually try and have arelationship, a close
relationship in some ways withthis individual.
Elena (16:32):
I mean to each their own, but personally, I don't think I
would do that.
I just don't think I could lookat the person every day after
that.
Even if I could findforgiveness, I don't think I'd
be able to.
D (16:44):
I do believe that individuals should have second chances.
I'm not sure if I would havewanted to give him the second
chance and be near me.
The other thing is sometimes youneed to wonder why people are
creating this crime and if hehad issues and he still has
(17:06):
issues.
I would not want him near me,and because of the situation, I
would say he would probablystill need to get some
assistance and help.
So I wouldn't say no as far ashim getting a second chance, but
I think it'd be better if he wasin a halfway house where they
would monitor him, as he's outin the real world and not near
(17:27):
me.
The way I see it, I would havefelt pain with this individual
and I would say I would bereliving it.
So I would say give him a secondchance but not near me.
Elena (17:40):
Yeah, I would agree with that one too.
Sophia (17:42):
That's a good way to put it.
I think if I had to see thatperson every single day, it
would be hard to continue toforgive them.
And I think there coulddefinitely be some resentment.
And also, I believe in secondchances for certain people.
There are some crimes andsituations that are way too
heinous.
He was underage at that timetoo, so she could have thought
(18:05):
or made the argument that maybehis brain wasn't developed.
At the same time, along the samelines of what you said, mom,
while I would want him to have asecond chance, I don't think I
would feel comfortable or trusthim enough to have that second
chance be with me.
For a while, it almost seemedlike Martha's Gamble was paying
off.
(18:25):
The Snowden house buzzed withnew energy and there was a sense
that maybe, just maybe, oldwounds could heal.
But, and you know how life lovesits twists, the past has a nasty
way of catching up with you.
Then came March 25th, 2020,right at the beginning of COVID
actually, which doesn't reallymatter in the story, but is more
(18:46):
of an interesting fact.
At this point, Martha is 63 andTravis is 39.
Late that night, Martha McKaywas found murdered in her own
home.
It was brutal.
She had been stabbed andbludgeoned.
Upon arriving at the home,deputies found the back door
open.
D (19:05):
Is this the bed and breakfast?
Sophia (19:08):
Yes, it's the bed and breakfast, which is the Snowden
house,
D (19:11):
The only person they found dead was Martha.
Sophia (19:13):
Martha.
D (19:14):
They did not find that any guests over the B and B, or was
it because it was COVID?
No one was there.
Sophia (19:20):
That's a good question.
I don't know.
They don't mention there beingany guests there, so perhaps
there weren't any.
D (19:27):
Okay.
Sophia (19:29):
Inside, they found a man, later identified as Travis,
who jumped out of an upstairswindow, ran to his vehicle, and
drove across the property.
When the vehicle got stuck inthe yard, Travis jumped from the
car and ran into the lake.
He was seen going under thewater and never came back up.
Using sonar equipment, membersof the Crittenden County Search
(19:52):
and Rescue Team were able tolocate and recover Travis's
body.
When they conducted an autopsyon Travis's body, they found
cocaine, meth, and marijuana inhis system.
When police discovered Martha'sbody at the top of the stairs,
they also found a cloth bag ontop of a nearby chair containing
several valuables and a bloodykitchen knife.
(20:15):
Travis was intending to stealthese valuables, however, it was
not determined whether hisintentions were to burglarize
Martha's home and she was killedin the process, or if his
intention was to murder Marthaand opted to steal the items.
Whatever his motive, he hadfound a benefactor in Martha.
Elena (20:35):
Wow, that's surprising, but at the same time not because
he did end up going back to hisold ways.
D (20:42):
Was he taking drugs during the first crime?
Sophia (20:46):
I have no idea.
D (20:48):
Because now he's on drugs, which of course does not help
him making the right decisions.
I think the way he reacts showsthat he was not okay.
You don't jump out of a window,go to a car, drive on a property
where it's probably grass andwho knows what else.
(21:09):
And then get stuck and then jumpin a lake, especially if you
don't know how to swim, which itsounds like he didn't.
Elena (21:17):
That or he was just too high to function and to swim and
he and accidentally drowned.
D (21:23):
That's true.
Elena (21:24):
And he was just like not in his right mind.
So he just ran into the lake
Sophia (21:28):
Or he just doesn't make very smart decisions, which is
probably a sign of something.
But think about it, he, this isthe second time he's committed a
crime in a way where he iscaught really red handed in some
ways.
Elena (21:44):
I wonder if it was really his intention sober to do that
or if he had gotten high and hejust thought that oh, he'll just
steal some things.
And then it happened again thesame way.
And I'm wondering if he was highthat first time too and he
wasn't in the right mind becauseof the drugs and he instead of
(22:05):
just running away or whatever hekilled them and did the same
now.
D (22:12):
The steps he took after the crime definitely shows there's
some illogical thought process.
Sophia (22:19):
100 percent.
D (22:21):
I don't think jumping from a window, getting into a car and
all that, especially if he'shigh, that could, that makes
sense that his thought processwas affected by the drugs.
Sophia (22:33):
In some ways, I think he's pretty impulsive.
Elena (22:38):
Definitely, I think one based off his actions and then
his willingness to do all thosedrugs at once shows that he
doesn't think his actions, sodefinitely not when he's high as
well.
Sophia (22:48):
It also makes me wonder because this happened the exact
same time, twice, was he thereto burglarize and again made the
mistake and did not know therewere people in the house or did
he go with the intention to doboth?
D (23:01):
It appears to me that maybe both times he was trying to rob
the place for drugs if he neededmoney for drugs.
Elena (23:10):
Yeah, I would agree.
It doesn't seem like at leastthe first time or even the
second time that his intentionswere to harm a person.
It seems like he went in to roband because he wasn't in his
right mind, just made the worstdecision possible and killed
them.
Sophia (23:26):
And he had a good job, so he could have kept using that
to fund drugs perhaps, but maybeit wasn't enough to cover his
needs and drugs.
Elena (23:36):
How long did he work there before?
He decided to do this.
Sophia (23:41):
I want to say two years.
Cause he was released in 2018, Ithink.
And then he killed Martha in2020.
Elena (23:50):
Cause it seems like if he really wanted to kill her for
whatever reason, maybe in someweird way, revenge, although to
me that doesn't make sense.
He had plenty of time to do it.
So that's why I'm wondering ifthis murder was more drug
related and there's some other,underlying mental illness issues
here.
D (24:10):
I'm wondering if there isn't some mental issues also involved
here.
And if he was clean in jail,then it would have been easier
for him to keep clean, when hecame out.
I would think, but it looks likehe went back to his old ways.
Sophia (24:26):
Prisoners can still find drugs in jail.
So he may not have been clean injail.
Elena (24:32):
Even if they are clean, the second they get out, they
can always start up again.
And I know like adjusting frombeing in the prison back into
society can be very stressfuland very difficult.
Sophia (24:44):
I will say, like I think with most people who murder or
commit crimes, I think there'ssomething wrong with him because
it doesn't benefit him or anyonewho commits a murder to actually
do it.
I actually think you're harmingyourself by doing that.
So I do think there's somethingwrong with him for committing
these crimes.
D (25:05):
I also think by having his mother work on the property and
then committing a crime reallyis an embarrassing situation for
his family.
And if he really cared, he wouldhave some remorse and felt bad
that he did this, and it alsoembarrassed the family.
But I don't think that was theway he thought, because he did
(25:28):
it again.
So I think there's some mentalillness involved here.
I may be wrong.
Sophia (25:33):
I think you're right.
I don't think he thinks likethat.
And I wouldn't have necessarilyexpected him to think like that
at 16, 17, but as he grew up inprison to eventually come to
terms with that.
But his mother, Gladys, she eventold Martha, hey, watch out.
So she seemed to accept andunderstand who her son was to
not be in denial of that.
(25:54):
So that's interesting.
Elena (25:57):
I wonder if there is something already going on, and
the drugs, and maybe he wasusing drugs at a young age, 15,
16, and that amplified things,and that led to the burglary,
and then making an awfuldecision to murder, or if he was
surrounded by bad people, maybebad peers, who introduced him to
(26:19):
drugs, and that just damaged himin the way he his thought
process was because his brain isstill developing and that caused
him to act the way he did.
I don't know but i'm curious iswhat caused what?
Sophia (26:33):
Who's to say what causes there's so many assumptions or
theories we could come up with.
So get this, it wasn't untilafter Martha's death that her
family learned a secret from herdiary.
Before Martha's murder, hersister sold a chandelier for
about ten to fifteen thousanddollars in cash, depending on
(26:53):
which source you read, and waskeeping the money at Snowden
House to help fund house repairsand renovations.
Travis was at the house the dayMartha came home with this
money, which then vanished.
Once the money vanished, Marthaquickly fired Travis.
So, at the time of the murder,Martha had ended her ties with
(27:14):
Travis.
Elena (27:16):
Okay.
I think he probably was angrythat he had gotten fired and
probably went back and becausehe was upset, took the drugs and
in his fit of anger, and justfrom being high, went in to rob
and then when he saw her, heprobably just, like, a switch
(27:36):
was, flipped and he justattacked her.
D (27:38):
If$10,000 to$15,000 are missing, you know he's using it
for drugs.
Elena (27:43):
Yeah.
D (27:44):
So his drug money ran out.
Elena (27:46):
Mm hmm.
And he needed more.
Sophia (27:49):
I think it was all about the money for him.
He took it, and maybe she didn'tcatch him in the act, which is
why he didn't murder her, butwhen she found out she fired
him.
And, at that point, when he wentto go and steal something else,
and she most likely caught himin the act, he decided to murder
her.
Maybe it was all about themoney.
Elena (28:10):
Yeah, I think it was about the money, and then, when
he was caught, he either did itbecause he thought he could get
away with it, he wasn't thinkingright because of the drugs, or
was in a fit of rage.
I don't know why, but I'mguessing it was probably
something along those lines.
Sophia (28:26):
It's interesting because at the time this all happened,
Martha seemed to have realizedand accepted that Travis had not
changed after all.
And yet this still happened.
Martha was known for her largerthan life presence and good
heart.
She loved her house.
After all this went down, thelocal community was left in
shock.
(28:46):
Just think about it.
Here was a woman who had shownwhat many would call the
ultimate act of forgiveness, andyet her trust ended in
heartbreak and violence.
People began debating Martha'sdecision to forgive Travis.
Was it a sign of unparalleledcompassion or was it a naive
risk that left her vulnerable?
While forgiveness is a beautifulthing in theory, there's a line
(29:09):
where you have to think aboutyour own safety too.
It's hard not to be moved byMartha's story.
Here's a woman who, aftersuffering unimaginable loss,
managed to find the strength toforgive.
That takes a kind of resiliencethat you rarely see.
Yet, at the same time, herdecision highlights the painful
reality that sometimes our bestintentions can lead to
(29:31):
unforeseen consequences.
Imagine being her, holding on tohope that people can truly
change, only to face a nightmarethat upends everything you
believed in.
I can't blame Martha for wantingto have compassion and
forgiveness.
She was a beautiful soul forthat, and maybe she hoped to
have some relief by forgivinghim as well.
(29:51):
And while I do think people canchange, this unfortunately is an
example of how some people neverwill.
And I think by Martha firingTravis before this all went
down, she realized this too.
But still, it must have come toolate.
D (30:08):
That's the risk you take when you do what Martha did.
Sophia (30:12):
And I think we all take that in our own lives in
different ways.
When someone hurts us or breaksour trust which every single one
of us experiences and youexperience in every single kind
of relationship, even healthyrelationships.
You have to decide, okay, can Itrust this person again?
And how are we going to work torestore the relationship and the
(30:32):
trusts and all of that.
Elena (30:34):
Yeah, I think she did what she had to do in order for
her to move on.
It was just unfortunate thatthat involved working and
trusting with someone who didnot deserve that trust and did
not earn it and misused it andbetrayed her, unfortunately.
Sophia (30:54):
True, because I think there are a good amount of
criminals, and perhaps evenpeople who've murdered people,
especially if they were youngerand they just were not thinking
correctly, who could be able tobe rehabilitated back into
society, and who would be sograteful to have the opportunity
that Martha provided.
I think there are so many peoplewho would wish that they would
(31:18):
have had a Martha in thesituation that Travis did, and
he just took it for granted.
Elena (31:24):
Agreed.
D (31:25):
I assume for him to get suspended to get into a fight
that this may have not been thefirst time he got into a fight
at school.
Sophia (31:34):
I'm not sure but I would not be surprised if it was not
the first time.
D (31:38):
Is there any mention of him taking drugs when he was
younger?
Sophia (31:43):
Some friends and family members have stated that Travis
experimented with drugs in hisyouth, so that may have
contributed to some of hisbehavioral problems.
So, it's possible.
And if he was using drugs likesome of his family members and
friends have stated, It's notreally gone into too deeply and
it's not very emphasized.
(32:03):
It's not like Travis has been onthese drugs, and we're so
devastated and he wasn't likealways like this.
People do not dwell on it inthis instance.
I don't know what effect thishas, but it's definitely not
talked about or dwelled on.
D (32:20):
It was 1996, if I'm not mistaken, which I think.
At that point, they probablythink the drugs just made him
make a bad decision.
They may not have said, why ishe taking the drugs?
If there's an underlying issueof mental illness or behavior
issues or something causing it.
(32:42):
I think they just said, oh, hewas a bad apple or something of
that sort, instead of reallylooking at the problem.
Sophia (32:49):
Well said, Mom.
I want to thank you forlistening to us this week.
We love our listeners andbecause of you, we do this
podcast.
Your help and engagement reallyhelps the podcast grow.
If you enjoyed this episode,please text a friend and family
member to listen to our podcast.
Until next time, make sure youstay on the Eerie Side.
(33:12):
Bye, guys.
Bye.
Bye.
And be safe.
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