February 27, 2025 • 37 mins
On a cold November day in 1970, the charred remains of an unidentified woman were discovered in Norway's Death Valley, sparking one of the most enduring mysteries in Scandinavian history. From cryptic items found near her body, to her multiple aliases, and international travels each piece of evidence paints a puzzling picture of a woman whose life may never be fully understood. With no clear explanation for her death, questions mount around the circumstances that led to her demise. Was she a victim of foul play, a spy, or someone with a hidden past? Known only as the "Isdal Woman," her identity remains unknown to this day.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elena (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome back to the Eerie Side Podcast with your
hosts, Elena, Sophia, and D.
We appreciate you guys listeningand I hope you're ready to get
on the Eerie Side.
Woop woop! Before we get intothe show, we'd appreciate it if
(00:47):
you guys could give the podcasta follow and make sure that the
bell notifications turned on soyou guys will be notified
whenever we drop an episode, andif you're enjoying the show, we
would love to hear your feedbackand for you to share a review.
And if there's any casesuggestions or any feedback
you'd like to share feel free tosend us a message in the text
box below.
Share the podcast with family,friends or really anyone you
(01:08):
think that would enjoy it.
And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook at the Eerie
Side podcast.
Alrighty guys, let's get intothe case.
So today I will be covering theIsdal Woman.
On a cold November day in 1970,the body of an unknown woman was
(01:29):
discovered in a remote Valley ofNorway, Isdalen, also known as
Death Valley.
The bizarre circumstancessurrounding her death, coupled
with an array of cryptic clues,have perplexed investigators and
conspiracy theorists alike forover half a century.
Who was she?
What was she doing in Norway?
And why does her case remainunsolved to this day?
(01:53):
All right, I just want to pausethere.
Are we familiar with this caseat all?
Sophia (01:57):
Yes, I am familiar with this case, and I have heard
about it multiple times.
Elena (02:02):
Okay, are you like super familiar or just have a brief
understanding of it?
Sophia (02:06):
Once you go into it, it'll all come back to me.
Elena (02:08):
Okay, cool.
Mom?
D (02:10):
I don't know.
Elena (02:11):
Okay, cool.
So we have someone who has alittle bit more info and someone
who might be going in blind.
Perfect.
On November 29th, 1970, a fatherand his two daughters were
hiking, Isdalen a rugged andisolated area near Bergen,
Norway, when they stumbled upona gruesome scene lying among the
rocks, was the partially burnedbody of a woman.
(02:33):
She had suffered extensiveburns.
Her hands were raised inupwards.
A common reaction to intensefire.
I think like a boxer's posewhere you're of, turn into fists
and they get pulled upwards.
And she was also laid down onher back with her stomach and
the top of her body facingupwards to the sky and traces of
(02:55):
soot were found in her lungsindicating that she was alive
when she was set on fire.
Nearby investigators found aseries of curious items near
her.
An empty bottle of St.
Hallvard Likor, two meltedplastic water bottles, rubber
boots, a woolen jumper, a scarf,nylon stockings, an umbrella,
purse, matchbox, and plasticpassport holder, watch, and
(03:20):
jewelry.
One forensic investigator said,"The placement and location of
the objects surrounding the bodywas strange.
It looked like there had beensome kind of ceremony." What's
even stranger was that allidentifying marks on her
clothing had been meticulouslyremoved and the labels had been
cut off.
(03:40):
Norwegian police quicklylaunched an investigation, but
their initial efforts toidentify the woman proved
futile.
She carried no passport,identification, or any personal
belongings that could have ledauthorities to her origins.
Her fingerprints were not foundin any police database, however,
her dental work was distinct.
And remember when I mentionedlike that boxer's pose.
(04:03):
I think because her hands turnedinto fists It was able to
preserve some of herfingerprints for them to test
them and her fingerprints willalso come back in later.
Sophia (04:10):
Oh, that's really interesting that her
fingerprints got saved becauseof that reason.
Elena (04:14):
Right and that actually significantly helped the
investigation later on andyou'll see.
She also had several gold crownsand 14 fillings, but
unfortunately furtherinvestigation led nowhere,
although they had hoped that herunique dental work could have
led somewhere, but they think itwas like most likely Southeast
(04:35):
Asia or like somewhere inEurope, or Southeast Africa.
The enamel of her teeth showedshe most likely was born around
1930 in or near Nuremberg,Germany, but moved to France or
the French Germany border whenshe was a child.
This would make sense, sincereports showed that she wrote in
German.
(04:55):
Though there were mistakes,meaning she most likely grew up,
and was educated in France or anearby country.
The most likely being her agewas closer to 40 than 30.
Initially, I think they believeher age was closer to 30, but
after recently going intofurther detail, it seems like
she was more in her forties.
An autopsy revealed that she haddied from a combination of
(05:18):
carbon monoxide poisoning and ahigh dose of sleeping pills
found in her stomach.
In total, she had consumedbetween 50 to 70 Fenemal pills,
which is a type of sleepingpills.
Her death was deemed a probablesuicide, but there are
conflicting reports that suggestsomething else.
She had suffered a bruise fromher neck suggesting a possible
(05:39):
blow or fall before her death.
The case already bizarre, tookan even stranger turn when the
police discovered that she hadbeen seen in Bergen multiple
times before her death.
Now, before we go any further, Iwant you guys to look at the
pictures the last of the setthat shows what Izdalen looks
like.
And it's a very rugged,mountainy terrain.
(06:02):
It's a very interesting placefor someone to travel after
they've taken sleeping pills.
In her system, the sleepingpills weren't completely
dissolved, so it wouldn't havetaken into effect yet, but it's
definitely a very interestingplace to travel with a bunch of
sleeping pills.
However, this valley has beenknown in the past for suicides,
(06:24):
hence the name Death Valley.
What she was wearing, from whatthey could tell, that wasn't
burned, she wasn't reallyprepared.
The type of clothing you wouldwear.
It was cold out, and I don'tthink from what I've understood
to suggest that she was wearinglike a coat or anything like
that.
Her shoes were not proper shoes.
I guess it's possible if you'regoing to commit suicide, maybe
(06:44):
you were not worrying too muchabout how you are going to
dress, but it is just
Sophia (06:52):
It also sounds like it's the perfect place to set up a
murder if you want it to looklike suicide, because it's
called Death Valley.
Elena (07:00):
And even before that, there's just been a lot of
deaths and tragedies in thisarea.
Sophia (07:06):
The fact that she has so much of the sleeping pills in
her system that initially wouldprobably point to suicide,
right?
But of course the act of settingherself on fire is very
questionable, in a suicide.
Elena (07:18):
Right and only the top part of her body was on fire
too.
And there are some conflictingreports that there was like a
nearby campfire, which I'venever found anything that was
like super credible to say that.
But maybe it's possible thatlike she fell, but then again
it's weird that only like thewhole top part of her body was
(07:38):
on fire.
Because they couldn't really geta good look at her face because
it was so badly burned.
Although we do have sketchartists, a few of them actually
made of her.
You can see a couple of them aslike the first picture and the
second picture is her with likeher hair pulled back and
actually in that picture you cansee, if you keep going, you can
see the third picture isactually her body.
(07:59):
So you can clearly see what shelooked like.
Do you guys see that?
Sophia (08:03):
Yes.
Elena (08:05):
Thoughts?
it's her legit body so I wouldhave thought there would be some
shock value in that.
Sophia (08:09):
I will say because the picture is black and white and
not as clear as it could be.
I think it distorts and hidesthe graphic nature of the body
and the crime a little bit.
Of course, I think if it was ina very crisp and color
condition, and it would be veryhard to look at this photo.
(08:31):
But if you had not told me whatwas in this photo, it may be
even hard to figure out that herbody is a body and not a bunch
of rocks.
Elena (08:41):
I remember at first I was looking at it and I was like,
wait, like, where is she?
And then I was able to find it.
Sophia (08:47):
Can see it.
Of course it's disturbing, but Ithink because it's not clear, it
blocks how graphic it really isand how disturbing it really
could be if you were able to seeit much more.
Elena (08:59):
Yeah.
Clearly.
Definitely, it would be a lotmore shocking to see it in
person or in a colored pictureas you said.
A breakthrough in the case camewhen investigators traced a set
of abandoned suitcases left atthe Bergen Railway Station.
Inside they found furtherperplexing evidence.
A prescription for eczema creamfrom a doctor with the off.
Sophia (09:21):
I didn't even know they had eczema cream back then.
That's so interesting.
Elena (09:26):
In the 70s?
Sophia (09:28):
It's just so interesting.
Elena (09:30):
Yeah, it definitely.
The clothing with all the labelshad been removed.
Notepad with cryptic code thatthe police were able to crack
and discovered it to be a travelitinerary.
You can look at that picture oneof the pictures I sent you with
the writings.
I'll explain the code in asecond.
Sophia (09:50):
This all screams spy.
Elena (09:52):
Yes, but at the same time, it's a very easy code to
crack.
So it was like 22 to 28,October, Paris.
So it was written as O, two,two,O, two, eight P, which would
stand for October 22nd toOctober 28th in Paris, And O, 2,
(10:19):
29, S would be October 29thStavanger.
Yes, it is a code and it'scryptic.
But at the same time, spymessages I feel like are a
little bit harder to crack'causethe police did not have that
hard time cracking it.
You can see it says 20 M to, 23M O, which is.
(10:41):
22nd of March to the 23rd ofMarch in Oslo.
So not that cryptic as well.
Sophia (10:49):
I'm curious what a spy would even be doing in Norway in
the 70s.
Elena (10:53):
i'm gonna get into that in just a second.
D (10:55):
It's called Russia.
Elena (10:57):
She's correct.
There were also several wigs, arailway map of Norway, a pair of
non prescription glasses andsunglasses with partial
fingerprints matching the woman,which is how they were able to
identify that this is, in fact,her stuff.
A variety of different coinsfrom different countries, some
including Belgian, British, andNorwegian coins.
(11:20):
There was, however, a plasticbag from a footwear store that
was in Stavanger, which is about130 miles south from Bergen.
The worker remembered helpingthis woman out and recalls on
November 18th how unusual andstrange this woman was.
He couldn't place her accent,but thought it was maybe French
(11:40):
or German.
He recalls that she was pickyand smelled a spicy smell, and
later on people report hersmell, reference it to like a
garlicky smell, which I foundwas interesting.
Sophia (11:52):
I do remember that and that is so odd, but I have
smelled someone who smelled likegarlic and that's because they
spent all day preparing a mealwith a heavy garlic usage.
Elena (12:02):
It's strange for someone like her to smell that
distinctive smell to differentpeople on different days.
Was it really garlic?
And if so, why was she workingwith garlic so much?
And if not, then, what otherscent would it have been?
Sophia (12:16):
Maybe she was just cooking one day or she was
dealing with some sort ofchemicals.
Elena (12:20):
That too.
He couldn't place the odor, butother people had referenced it
being garlic.
She eventually left withoutbuying anything, only to come
back and purchase a pair ofboots, the ones that were found
on her body.
Police were able to link theseitems to the deceased, but
instead of answering theirquestions, the discovery
deepened the mystery.
(12:41):
Inquiries revealed that thewoman had traveled extensively
across Europe, staying invarious hotels under at least
nine different aliases.
She spoke multiple languages,including French, German, and
even some people reported likebroken English and Flemish.
The last she was seen alive wason November 23rd at the Hotel,
(13:02):
I'm sorry if I pronounce thiswrong Hordenheimen.
The staff told police that shewas roughly 5'4 had brown hair
and brown eyes, and was goodlooking.
The staff also noted that shemainly kept to herself in her
room and seemed to be on guard.
This seemed to be a theme amonghotel staff that had saw her.
They would describe her as quietand serious.
(13:24):
She also would frequently demandher room be changed and wouldn't
allow housekeeping to clean herroom.
One report going as far assaying she put a table up
against her door to preventpeople from entering.
One maid entered, in one of thehotels, not this one, but had
entered and reported seeing hertalking with a handsome blonde
(13:45):
man, and she went in and theIsdal Woman let her do her
thing, but it was quiet.
The Isdal Woman did not sayanything, nor did the man, and
then the maid just left.
There was also a waitress in oneof the hotels that reported
seeing her eating next to twoGerman naval officers.
I'm not sure if they were at thesame table or just like next to
(14:08):
each other, but she didn't saythat it was strange and they
never said like did not say aword to each other.
So there's a lot of eyewitnessesthat come forward and see her
with men, but they're notdiscussing anything.
There was another person thatsaid that she witnessed this
woman having dinner with a greathair man and they were like
going over some paper, but theynever said anything.
(14:28):
It was just silent.
So very interesting.
When she would check into ahotel, she would use one of the
fake aliases and fake passportsfor the handwritten check in
forms.
She would change her birthdaysand occupations, but
consistently put her nationalityas Belgian.
She would usually put heroccupations as a saleswoman or
an antiques dealer.
(14:49):
There was a witness who reportedseeing her talking to a man in a
hotel in Bergen, in German.
Eventually the Bergen chief ofpolice announced, interestingly,
that the woman had died bysuicide and the case was to be
closed, stating that there's noevidence to suggest that if
anything, all the evidence justpoints to a suicide.
(15:13):
This surprised everyone, eventhe police within the
department, because it'sreported that they didn't fully
believe the suicide theory.
They considered it, but there'sa lot of conflicting evidence
that suggested possiblysomething else.
However, before theinvestigation was closed,
investigators and the publicbegan formulating theories about
(15:35):
the Isdal Woman's true identityand her mysterious demise.
One theory was espionage, orspy.
The Cold War was at its peak in1970, and Norway with its
strategic location was a hotspotfor intelligence activities.
The women's use of multipleidentities, her European
(15:57):
travels, and her seeming,caution about being followed
suggested that she would havebeen involved in espionage.
Some believe that she could havebeen a double agent who was
eliminated by intelligenceoperatives.
And there's also a report at ahotel where, I think it was like
a bellboy saw this woman in afur hat and the only thing that
(16:19):
he could think of that itreminded him of was like the
Soviet hats.
I'm not sure if that's what itwas, but that's just what it
reminded him of.
Sophia (16:26):
Or maybe she was trying to portray herself as that.
Elena (16:29):
Possibly.
Sophia (16:29):
It's interesting to think of her potentially being
eliminated by somebody who wason her own team.
Elena (16:35):
Exactly
Sophia (16:36):
It's always so fascinating to me that many of
these agents or spies orwhatever you want to call them
know so many different languagesand are able to so easily adapt
and morph and become chameleonsinto whoever they want to be.
Because for myself, even thatsounds cool in some ways, I know
(16:56):
I don't even have the talentsand the skills to do that.
So to think of her having, theability to know all these
different languages and changeherself whenever she needs to is
just so interesting andfascinating.
Elena (17:10):
Some people have even speculated that maybe she didn't
really have broken English andthat she was just pretending
that she did.
Sophia (17:15):
Ooh, that's really interesting.
Elena (17:17):
Maybe even pretended to get stuff wrong in German on the
check ins too, who knows?
Sophia (17:22):
She would have to be a really great actress for that,
and totally possible, right?
But that requires definitelysome serious skill and talent.
Elena (17:30):
Right.of course.
The other theory is likecriminal or covert operations.
So some theories, propose thatshe may have been involved in
illegal trade or intelligencework related to the military.
During her travel, she visitedareas near Norway's military
testing sites, raisingsuspicions that she was
gathering intelligence for anunknown party.
(17:52):
A fisherman reported seeing aweird woman that looked Russian
and too well dressed for theharbor.
He witnessed her talking to anaval officer for a while right
by Norwegian Navy ships thatwere testing a new target
seeking missile.
Now this theory I don't reallybelieve in, and I think a lot of
people have just debunked this,but I'm still going to put it in
(18:13):
there.
Some people have considered thatshe could have been doing sex
work.
Meaning that she could have beena sex worker or a prostitute and
that's why she was seen withdifferent men.
However, it is strange that asex worker would go through all
of this to hide her identity andchange her look.
To me, a sex worker is a littlefar but it could explain why the
(18:35):
men that she was seen with nevercame forward.
Sophia (18:38):
And it's also hard to imagine a sex worker knows all
these different languages and isportraying herself in all these
different ways.
Elena (18:47):
It's definitely a little far fetched for me.
I feel like weirdly theespionage theory is less far
fetched than a sex worker.
There's also other reasons,obviously why the men could not
have come forward, but it couldexplain that.
And last but not least, likesuicide or mental illness.
Although it's deemed unlikely bysome, many speculate that these
(19:11):
dull woman may have taken herown life.
The sedatives in her systemsuggest an intentional overdose,
but this does not completelyexplain the fire or why all the
labels on her belongings wereremoved.
I guess it's possible that,suicide is likely given, it
would be hard, to force someoneto take 50 to 70 pills.
(19:32):
There's also some reports thatthere were like some pills
nearby, like 12 pills nearby herbody.
Which if that is true, it wouldbe conflicting, because the
pills were like partiallydigested.
If that's true, that she hadtaken 50 to 70 pills there,
waited a while, somehow fell,because remember, she had a
(19:53):
bruise on her neck.
Then decided to light herself onfire, and then, I guess, hit her
neck.
It's just strange, but at thesame time, it would be hard to
force feed someone 50 to 70pills.
Sophia (20:07):
I definitely think she could have taken 50 to 70 pills
and then falling on her neck.
But, to set herself on fireafterwards, that's a bit
unrealistic and hard to imagine.
Elena (20:18):
Right.
Sophia (20:20):
She could have been forced by gunpoint or knife
point or whatever to take 50 to70 pills.
Definitely possible and if maybethey were hanging someone else's
life over her head.
Elena (20:31):
Right.
Sophia (20:31):
100% she could have taken it and at that point If
she is spy, I think she knewvery well what was happening and
what they were setting her upfor.
D (20:40):
Were the pills just found in her system or were they found in
her stomach?
Elena (20:46):
In her stomach?
D (20:47):
So they actually found pills.
Elena (20:49):
She ate it orally and I ingested them.
D (20:52):
It sounds more like suicide then.
Sophia (20:55):
Then how do you explain her being set on fire?
You're on fire.
I should say.
D (20:59):
I have no idea.
Elena (21:00):
I think it's possible that If she fell over and hit
her neck, maybe that didn't killher and she landed on a nearby
campsite.
That campfire that some peopledo report was nearby and she,
lit herself on fire.
And somehow still survived thatand was getting up and was, like
freaking out about the fire andthen fell on her back and died.
Sophia (21:23):
That would be a really awful thing to have to
experience if you were trying tocommit suicide, and then it's
like it just keeps getting worseand worse.
Like you fall and then now youset yourself up on fire.
If you take pills and you fallasleep and go off into
unconsciousness, it's easy tojust let that happen.
Elena (21:41):
Right.
Sophia (21:41):
But then to be In that amount of pain with the fire,
she may also even want to havetried to get help just to stop
the damage that would have done.
Elena (21:51):
Oh, yeah, it would have been extremely painful, and I
feel like an instincts wouldhave kicked in at that point.
The pills were not digestedenough that she would have had
that overdose just yet if shehad not been lit on fire.
Yes, she would have had thatoverdose, because there's
definitely enough pills in therefor her.
So it's possible some of theside effects started to kick in,
(22:12):
and she slipped and she fell hither neck.
It's very possible.
I also saw another theory that,as someone in the field of
psychology I would agree with aswell, which is she could have
been having like a mental healthissue or like, a psychotic
break.
It would explain why she was soscared.
And she was maybe feeling likeshe was being watched and
(22:35):
explained like the differentwigs and all that stuff.
To me that actually seems verypossible that this was all like
due to some sort of likepsychotic break or some sort of
mental illness.
Sophia (22:49):
There was induced paranoia?
Elena (22:52):
Yes.
Sophia (22:53):
I suppose that could also explain why her tags were
removed.
Mm hmm.
Having tags removed does screamspy.
Right?
Elena (23:00):
Right.
Sophia (23:01):
Though, but of course that is possible, and I will say
the different genders, of courseeveryone is unique and specific,
but generally the differentgenders commit suicide in
different ways.
So when men commit suicide, it'smuch more violent.
Think, of course, settingyourself on fire, gun, anything
(23:22):
violent like that.
But when women commit suicide,it's less violent and less
painful.
So taking the pills, forexample, which is what she may
have done.
That would definitely be in linefor a woman committing suicide.
Elena (23:34):
It could definitely be something like she was suffering
from schizophrenia or likebipolar induced mania, something
that is going on.
And the other thing is if shewas a spy, she wasn't that great
at it.
I think about it because hercode, easy to crack.
Police cracked it prettyquickly.
Spies are supposed to be underthe radar.
(23:55):
Everyone remembered her.
They remember seeing her.
Her B.
O.
maybe it's not garlic, but she'sjust not taking care of herself.
Sophia (24:03):
She seemed to stick out.
Elena (24:05):
She did.
Sophia (24:05):
Quite often and not just it was not just one scenario.
She definitely seemed to stickout.
D (24:11):
If you remember the movie, The Beautiful Mind.
Russel Crowe.
Sophia (24:15):
I do.
D (24:16):
Schizophrenia made him think he was doing something secret,
and he thought that he wastalking to a high official, I
think in the United States andhe wasn't.
So she could just be into thatthought process.
Sophia (24:31):
Ooh, like she thinks she's a spy and working with.
Elena (24:34):
Right.
Sophia (24:35):
That's really scary.
Elena (24:35):
And given the time period, it's very possible that
could have impacted herdelusions, and why she thought
that given the whole Cold Warand all that stuff going on.
Sophia (24:46):
Well, now I feel like I have a different potential
opinion than I did the previoustime as I've explored this case.
Elena (24:53):
I would agree.
I definitely went in thinkingone way and then as I started
doing my further investigation Iwas like I can actually see it
being an accidental death, but Iwouldn't fully rule espionage
off.
It seems more likely now that itcould have been a suicide
induced by psychosis or a mentalillness or a psychotic break or
(25:15):
Schizophrenia or something likethat.
D (25:16):
It could have been a suicide and as the pills were setting
in, maybe she was losing controlof her body and then panicking.
And then she fell in the fire,which made things worse, because
her whole body didn't burn onlythe upper.
That makes sense.
If you're trying to stand up andyou can't, the first thing that
goes sometimes is your head.
So you fall over like that.
Elena (25:37):
But she felt back.
D (25:38):
Oh, she felt back.
Okay.
Elena (25:40):
Yeah, either way.
D (25:40):
That's what I'm saying is she fell.
Her legs didn't burn.
Her upper body burned.
I'm thinking that she lostcontrol of her body, and then
she came out of it maybe orrolled out, and she still didn't
know what was going on.
And she may not have beenfeeling pain.
Elena (25:56):
True.
if the pills had kicked in.
D (25:57):
Had kicked in.
Right.
All she's feeling is she can,maybe have control of her body.
Elena (26:02):
Right.
D (26:02):
Maybe that's creating more of a paranoia or more of a panic,
because she took the pills butthen maybe she doesn't remember.
Elena (26:09):
I would think that she at least had some motor functions
because if she fell forward onthe campsite, that may or may
not have been there.
She still would have enoughcontrol in her body to get up.
So that way she can fall on herback.
Sophia (26:24):
I don't know if that's true though.
Maybe she was trying to get upbut she just fell like she
couldn't balance herself.
Elena (26:29):
Yeah, yeah.
But I'm saying she at least hadenough to get up.
Sophia (26:32):
And maybe she even had that only for a minute or two
and then lost that ability.
Can't they confirm if there is acamp or at this point if there
was a campsite there?
Elena (26:43):
Yeah.
So I'll say this, I've seenreports talking about a
campfire.
There's been a few that havementioned it, but there's no
credible new sources or anythingreleased by the police that
fully confirms that.
It's usually just like otherpeople who do their research,
and they're relaying that, but Idon't know where they're getting
(27:05):
that research, where they'regetting that evidence from.
So it could have just been likea rumor that started
speculating.
On February 5th, 1971, she wasburied in a zinc coffin to
preserve her remains in case offurther investigation in the
Mollendal Graveyard in Bergen,where Bergen police officers
attended.
(27:25):
And unfortunately, it seemedthat only it was the Bergen
police officers that attended,and they did give her a Catholic
burial just because, the namesthat were used were Catholic
saint names.
That's why they decided to dothat.
D (27:41):
Did they put any posters in Europe to see if anyone could
identify her?
Elena (27:46):
Yeah, they put the sketch out everywhere.
That's why a lot of theseeyewitnesses started to come
forward and say, hey, I think Isaw this woman at this harbor.
I think this person was at thishotel and whatnot.
So yes, they did put thesepictures out.
Everywhere they could.
D (28:04):
But no one identified her as far as they knew who she was.
Elena (28:08):
No, no one was like, this is whatever.
I will say when they were doingan autopsy, there's no evidence
that she had given birth.
So it doesn't seem like she hasany kids, but as her family,
relative, friends, no one hascome forward to say that they
know this woman.
So the case of the Isdal Womanis one of the most enduring
(28:29):
mysteries in modern criminalhistory.
Whether, she was a spy, a victimof assassination, or a woman
struggling with mental illness.
Her story continues to captivatethose who seek the truth.
The unanswered questionssurrounding her death, who she
was, why she traveled so widely,and how she met her tragic fate,
(28:50):
ensure that the mystery of theIsdal Woman remains one of
Norway's most haunting andperplexing cold cases.
Even after decades,investigators and journalists
continue to pursue new leads,hoping that advances in forensic
science or a long hidden pieceof evidence might finally crack
the case.
(29:10):
The enigma surrounding hermovements, multiple identities,
and the sheer effort to eraseher traces suggest that someone,
somewhere, knows more than theyhave ever revealed.
Until that truth emerges, theIsdal Woman remains a ghostly
figure in the records of crime,a puzzle whose solution may yet
lie hidden in the shadows ofhistory.
Sophia (29:33):
I'm curious to hear what our listeners think happened to
her.
So, if you all could commentyour opinions, if you think it
was mental illness or if it wassomehow spy related, or
whatever, really want to hearwhat everyone else thinks.
Because this one is definitelyinteresting and fascinating to
me.
Elena (29:52):
Yeah, every time I like want to lean one way, there's
always something about someother theory that I'm like, this
doesn't quite explain that.
But then if I put the leantowards that there, I keep going
back and forth.
Sophia (30:05):
Right.
I feel like if she was a spy,she would have done better to
conceal herself, but it's sointeresting, because I feel like
until now, I had always assumedit was somehow spy related, but
now my opinion has changed.
Elena (30:19):
Yeah, I think that for me is one of the biggest things is
if she was really a spy.
I don't think there would bethat many identifications of
her, but I wonder who those menwere.
That she kept meeting up withdifferent guys.
Maybe it was, I don't know.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Sophia (30:41):
It could have been, she was a prostitute or meeting with
them as if though she was aprostitute.
Elena (30:46):
Maybe as part of her illness, her thinking that.
Sophia (30:50):
Because if she was ill, how was she getting money?
Elena (30:53):
True.
That's true.
Maybe she was using that.
As a way and that would makesense as to why they were quiet
But if that's the case, I don'tthink she was just a sex worker.
I think there has to besomething mixed in with it like
some sort of mental illness orbreak or something like that.
Sophia (31:10):
100 percent.
I still think there isdefinitely mental illness at
play.
Elena (31:15):
Mom any thoughts?
D (31:16):
No, she sounds like she probably had mental illness.
Maybe there's no way of knowingwhich country she came from.
Mm hmm.
And if she didn't have anyincome, she probably did some
prostitution to get some money.
And the men who probably nevercame forward, probably never
even realized that they weretalking about her when they
said, they found this woman.
Because, in their minds, she'sjust a prostitute.
(31:38):
They may not even remember herface or anything.
Elena (31:41):
True.
Sophia (31:43):
Yeah, I think a lot of them would not even put the dots
together or unfortunately thinkmuch about her.
Elena (31:50):
I'm sure there might have been like some reports that If
you looked like this and youwere in this hotel at this date
with a woman that looked likethis description, maybe then
those guys would've been like,oh yeah, that was me.
But if they're there for sexwork.
Sophia (32:03):
They're not gonna say anything.
Elena (32:04):
Right.
Especially in that time.
Nowadays, I feel like maybepolice officers would be like,
Hey, we don't care.
If you were doing that, we justwant to get the information.
But back then they may not haveknown that, or the police would
care about that, so maybe thatkept them quiet.
Or they had wives, they had afamily, business, they had a
job, a whole life that theycouldn't risk.
Sophia (32:25):
Did they examine her private area to see if she had
semen in her or not?
Elena (32:31):
No.
There is no mention of that.
Possibly could have been thefire maybe damaged?
I'm not sure.
Sophia (32:39):
But if she only had fire on the upper half of her body,
if something did happen, thatwould definitely give more
context to the story.
Elena (32:48):
True, but I don't think there was anything in the
autopsy to suggest, yes, it didhappen.
My guess is either it wasinconclusive, maybe the fire
damage was too bad, just soawful they couldn't tell, or
there was just no evidence ofanything like that.
Sophia (33:05):
Okay, because even if it wasn't showing that she was
raped or anything violent likethat, having multiple semen
samples would definitely pointin the direction of her
potentially being a prostitute.
D (33:18):
Yeah, but if she didn't have any Joes for two, three days
right after a while.
Maybe she wasn't doing it allthe time.
Sophia (33:27):
That's true.
Elena (33:28):
That's unfortunately all I have for this case any last
thoughts
Sophia (33:33):
I don't think we're gonna get this one solved; even
though, I wish we could.
But it'll be interesting to seewhat happens with It.
Elena (33:39):
You didn't think we're gonna solve it right here and
right now.
Sophia (33:42):
No, I'm saying of course the longer this goes on the less
likely it is to be solved.
Mm hmm And I would not besurprised if this one in
particular was never solved.
Elena (33:53):
Yeah, unfortunately.
This is like one of the caseswhere I'd really want to see a
solve.
Or some sort of answer, but, Ifeel like the only way we'd ever
get an answer is if she wasactually a spy, and we caught
the person who killed her.
Sophia (34:08):
Not necessarily, if we were able to determine her
identity,
Elena (34:11):
Oh yeah, you know what, that's true.
Sophia (34:12):
Because then the people who knew her could say yes she
really suffered with mentalillness or she never seemed to
have any sort of struggles,issues.
Elena (34:20):
Right.
Exactly.
D (34:20):
Did they ever think of opening her now and getting DNA?
Elena (34:24):
They did.
That's how they got the newupdate with the teeth, and where
she was born.
And all that.
D (34:30):
How long ago was this?
Sophia (34:31):
If they do genealogy tests?
D (34:33):
They'll figure it.
Sophia (34:35):
Ooh, that would be really interesting.
That could really actually helpwith the case.
Elena (34:40):
It was in 2017 where they got the isotope analysis of the
woman's teeth.
D (34:46):
But they do genealogy DNA now, so I think they could
probably even narrow it downmore, since they know it's from
Germany, they could probablystart there.
Oh, in Germany you can't do DNAtesting, I think.
Sophia (35:00):
But she didn't die in Germany.
D (35:02):
I know.
But if she was born in Germany,I think there's something about
Germany.
Sophia (35:07):
How are they going to know that though?
D (35:09):
Who?
Sophia (35:09):
I think she's in Norway's custody.
Right?
Elena (35:13):
They've done a lot of DNA though, with her.
They have some like MT DNA,Harpo group eight to find out
that she had maternal descentfrom Southeast Europe or
Southwest Asia.
But I don't know, causedifferent countries have
different regulations.
So like the Belgian and Norwaywould have to work with Germany
(35:35):
and France.
And I just don't know if they'rewilling to do that.
If a lot of people now are justassuming it's a suicide.
Which is unfortunate andheartbreaking because the family
still deserves answers
D (35:51):
They could still do it, I think.
I don't think that matters.
The other thing is, even if theyput the posters around of her
face back then, if her familythought she was living in the
streets, they never would expectto see that there's a picture of
a woman in Norway and think it'sher.
So it could be that they saw,they're like, yeah, whatever.
(36:14):
I didn't think of anything ofit, because, she was from
another country and they knewshe was in the streets or left.
Because,,if she wasn't fromNorway, probably didn't think of
it.
Elena (36:24):
I saw that it could also be due to a lack of just enough
DNA for a genealogy sample.
That could also effect theirability to do an adequate
sample, because I know you needa lot of DNA for a genealogy
test.
Unfortunately that is all wehave for this case, but I do
want to thank you for listeningto us this week.
(36:44):
We love our listeners, and it'sbecause of each and every one of
you that we do this podcast.
Your help and engagement isreally what helps this podcast
grow.
And if you enjoy this episode,please send it to a friend or
family member to listen to.
And until next time, make sureyou stay on the Eerie Side.
Bye guys.
Bye.
Bye and be
D (37:03):
safe.
Hey guys, welcome back to the Eerie Side Podcast with your
hosts, Elena, Sophia, and D.
We appreciate you guys listeningand I hope you're ready to get
on the Eerie Side.
Woop woop! Before we get intothe show, we'd appreciate it if
(00:47):
you guys could give the podcasta follow and make sure that the
bell notifications turned on soyou guys will be notified
whenever we drop an episode, andif you're enjoying the show, we
would love to hear your feedbackand for you to share a review.
And if there's any casesuggestions or any feedback
you'd like to share feel free tosend us a message in the text
box below.
Share the podcast with family,friends or really anyone you
(01:08):
think that would enjoy it.
And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook at the Eerie
Side podcast.
Alrighty guys, let's get intothe case.
So today I will be covering theIsdal Woman.
On a cold November day in 1970,the body of an unknown woman was
(01:29):
discovered in a remote Valley ofNorway, Isdalen, also known as
Death Valley.
The bizarre circumstancessurrounding her death, coupled
with an array of cryptic clues,have perplexed investigators and
conspiracy theorists alike forover half a century.
Who was she?
What was she doing in Norway?
And why does her case remainunsolved to this day?
(01:53):
All right, I just want to pausethere.
Are we familiar with this caseat all?
Sophia (01:57):
Yes, I am familiar with this case, and I have heard
about it multiple times.
Elena (02:02):
Okay, are you like super familiar or just have a brief
understanding of it?
Sophia (02:06):
Once you go into it, it'll all come back to me.
Elena (02:08):
Okay, cool.
Mom?
D (02:10):
I don't know.
Elena (02:11):
Okay, cool.
So we have someone who has alittle bit more info and someone
who might be going in blind.
Perfect.
On November 29th, 1970, a fatherand his two daughters were
hiking, Isdalen a rugged andisolated area near Bergen,
Norway, when they stumbled upona gruesome scene lying among the
rocks, was the partially burnedbody of a woman.
(02:33):
She had suffered extensiveburns.
Her hands were raised inupwards.
A common reaction to intensefire.
I think like a boxer's posewhere you're of, turn into fists
and they get pulled upwards.
And she was also laid down onher back with her stomach and
the top of her body facingupwards to the sky and traces of
(02:55):
soot were found in her lungsindicating that she was alive
when she was set on fire.
Nearby investigators found aseries of curious items near
her.
An empty bottle of St.
Hallvard Likor, two meltedplastic water bottles, rubber
boots, a woolen jumper, a scarf,nylon stockings, an umbrella,
purse, matchbox, and plasticpassport holder, watch, and
(03:20):
jewelry.
One forensic investigator said,"The placement and location of
the objects surrounding the bodywas strange.
It looked like there had beensome kind of ceremony." What's
even stranger was that allidentifying marks on her
clothing had been meticulouslyremoved and the labels had been
cut off.
(03:40):
Norwegian police quicklylaunched an investigation, but
their initial efforts toidentify the woman proved
futile.
She carried no passport,identification, or any personal
belongings that could have ledauthorities to her origins.
Her fingerprints were not foundin any police database, however,
her dental work was distinct.
And remember when I mentionedlike that boxer's pose.
(04:03):
I think because her hands turnedinto fists It was able to
preserve some of herfingerprints for them to test
them and her fingerprints willalso come back in later.
Sophia (04:10):
Oh, that's really interesting that her
fingerprints got saved becauseof that reason.
Elena (04:14):
Right and that actually significantly helped the
investigation later on andyou'll see.
She also had several gold crownsand 14 fillings, but
unfortunately furtherinvestigation led nowhere,
although they had hoped that herunique dental work could have
led somewhere, but they think itwas like most likely Southeast
(04:35):
Asia or like somewhere inEurope, or Southeast Africa.
The enamel of her teeth showedshe most likely was born around
1930 in or near Nuremberg,Germany, but moved to France or
the French Germany border whenshe was a child.
This would make sense, sincereports showed that she wrote in
German.
(04:55):
Though there were mistakes,meaning she most likely grew up,
and was educated in France or anearby country.
The most likely being her agewas closer to 40 than 30.
Initially, I think they believeher age was closer to 30, but
after recently going intofurther detail, it seems like
she was more in her forties.
An autopsy revealed that she haddied from a combination of
(05:18):
carbon monoxide poisoning and ahigh dose of sleeping pills
found in her stomach.
In total, she had consumedbetween 50 to 70 Fenemal pills,
which is a type of sleepingpills.
Her death was deemed a probablesuicide, but there are
conflicting reports that suggestsomething else.
She had suffered a bruise fromher neck suggesting a possible
(05:39):
blow or fall before her death.
The case already bizarre, tookan even stranger turn when the
police discovered that she hadbeen seen in Bergen multiple
times before her death.
Now, before we go any further, Iwant you guys to look at the
pictures the last of the setthat shows what Izdalen looks
like.
And it's a very rugged,mountainy terrain.
(06:02):
It's a very interesting placefor someone to travel after
they've taken sleeping pills.
In her system, the sleepingpills weren't completely
dissolved, so it wouldn't havetaken into effect yet, but it's
definitely a very interestingplace to travel with a bunch of
sleeping pills.
However, this valley has beenknown in the past for suicides,
(06:24):
hence the name Death Valley.
What she was wearing, from whatthey could tell, that wasn't
burned, she wasn't reallyprepared.
The type of clothing you wouldwear.
It was cold out, and I don'tthink from what I've understood
to suggest that she was wearinglike a coat or anything like
that.
Her shoes were not proper shoes.
I guess it's possible if you'regoing to commit suicide, maybe
(06:44):
you were not worrying too muchabout how you are going to
dress, but it is just
Sophia (06:52):
It also sounds like it's the perfect place to set up a
murder if you want it to looklike suicide, because it's
called Death Valley.
Elena (07:00):
And even before that, there's just been a lot of
deaths and tragedies in thisarea.
Sophia (07:06):
The fact that she has so much of the sleeping pills in
her system that initially wouldprobably point to suicide,
right?
But of course the act of settingherself on fire is very
questionable, in a suicide.
Elena (07:18):
Right and only the top part of her body was on fire
too.
And there are some conflictingreports that there was like a
nearby campfire, which I'venever found anything that was
like super credible to say that.
But maybe it's possible thatlike she fell, but then again
it's weird that only like thewhole top part of her body was
(07:38):
on fire.
Because they couldn't really geta good look at her face because
it was so badly burned.
Although we do have sketchartists, a few of them actually
made of her.
You can see a couple of them aslike the first picture and the
second picture is her with likeher hair pulled back and
actually in that picture you cansee, if you keep going, you can
see the third picture isactually her body.
(07:59):
So you can clearly see what shelooked like.
Do you guys see that?
Sophia (08:03):
Yes.
Elena (08:05):
Thoughts?
it's her legit body so I wouldhave thought there would be some
shock value in that.
Sophia (08:09):
I will say because the picture is black and white and
not as clear as it could be.
I think it distorts and hidesthe graphic nature of the body
and the crime a little bit.
Of course, I think if it was ina very crisp and color
condition, and it would be veryhard to look at this photo.
(08:31):
But if you had not told me whatwas in this photo, it may be
even hard to figure out that herbody is a body and not a bunch
of rocks.
Elena (08:41):
I remember at first I was looking at it and I was like,
wait, like, where is she?
And then I was able to find it.
Sophia (08:47):
Can see it.
Of course it's disturbing, but Ithink because it's not clear, it
blocks how graphic it really isand how disturbing it really
could be if you were able to seeit much more.
Elena (08:59):
Yeah.
Clearly.
Definitely, it would be a lotmore shocking to see it in
person or in a colored pictureas you said.
A breakthrough in the case camewhen investigators traced a set
of abandoned suitcases left atthe Bergen Railway Station.
Inside they found furtherperplexing evidence.
A prescription for eczema creamfrom a doctor with the off.
Sophia (09:21):
I didn't even know they had eczema cream back then.
That's so interesting.
Elena (09:26):
In the 70s?
Sophia (09:28):
It's just so interesting.
Elena (09:30):
Yeah, it definitely.
The clothing with all the labelshad been removed.
Notepad with cryptic code thatthe police were able to crack
and discovered it to be a travelitinerary.
You can look at that picture oneof the pictures I sent you with
the writings.
I'll explain the code in asecond.
Sophia (09:50):
This all screams spy.
Elena (09:52):
Yes, but at the same time, it's a very easy code to
crack.
So it was like 22 to 28,October, Paris.
So it was written as O, two,two,O, two, eight P, which would
stand for October 22nd toOctober 28th in Paris, And O, 2,
(10:19):
29, S would be October 29thStavanger.
Yes, it is a code and it'scryptic.
But at the same time, spymessages I feel like are a
little bit harder to crack'causethe police did not have that
hard time cracking it.
You can see it says 20 M to, 23M O, which is.
(10:41):
22nd of March to the 23rd ofMarch in Oslo.
So not that cryptic as well.
Sophia (10:49):
I'm curious what a spy would even be doing in Norway in
the 70s.
Elena (10:53):
i'm gonna get into that in just a second.
D (10:55):
It's called Russia.
Elena (10:57):
She's correct.
There were also several wigs, arailway map of Norway, a pair of
non prescription glasses andsunglasses with partial
fingerprints matching the woman,which is how they were able to
identify that this is, in fact,her stuff.
A variety of different coinsfrom different countries, some
including Belgian, British, andNorwegian coins.
(11:20):
There was, however, a plasticbag from a footwear store that
was in Stavanger, which is about130 miles south from Bergen.
The worker remembered helpingthis woman out and recalls on
November 18th how unusual andstrange this woman was.
He couldn't place her accent,but thought it was maybe French
(11:40):
or German.
He recalls that she was pickyand smelled a spicy smell, and
later on people report hersmell, reference it to like a
garlicky smell, which I foundwas interesting.
Sophia (11:52):
I do remember that and that is so odd, but I have
smelled someone who smelled likegarlic and that's because they
spent all day preparing a mealwith a heavy garlic usage.
Elena (12:02):
It's strange for someone like her to smell that
distinctive smell to differentpeople on different days.
Was it really garlic?
And if so, why was she workingwith garlic so much?
And if not, then, what otherscent would it have been?
Sophia (12:16):
Maybe she was just cooking one day or she was
dealing with some sort ofchemicals.
Elena (12:20):
That too.
He couldn't place the odor, butother people had referenced it
being garlic.
She eventually left withoutbuying anything, only to come
back and purchase a pair ofboots, the ones that were found
on her body.
Police were able to link theseitems to the deceased, but
instead of answering theirquestions, the discovery
deepened the mystery.
(12:41):
Inquiries revealed that thewoman had traveled extensively
across Europe, staying invarious hotels under at least
nine different aliases.
She spoke multiple languages,including French, German, and
even some people reported likebroken English and Flemish.
The last she was seen alive wason November 23rd at the Hotel,
(13:02):
I'm sorry if I pronounce thiswrong Hordenheimen.
The staff told police that shewas roughly 5'4 had brown hair
and brown eyes, and was goodlooking.
The staff also noted that shemainly kept to herself in her
room and seemed to be on guard.
This seemed to be a theme amonghotel staff that had saw her.
They would describe her as quietand serious.
(13:24):
She also would frequently demandher room be changed and wouldn't
allow housekeeping to clean herroom.
One report going as far assaying she put a table up
against her door to preventpeople from entering.
One maid entered, in one of thehotels, not this one, but had
entered and reported seeing hertalking with a handsome blonde
(13:45):
man, and she went in and theIsdal Woman let her do her
thing, but it was quiet.
The Isdal Woman did not sayanything, nor did the man, and
then the maid just left.
There was also a waitress in oneof the hotels that reported
seeing her eating next to twoGerman naval officers.
I'm not sure if they were at thesame table or just like next to
(14:08):
each other, but she didn't saythat it was strange and they
never said like did not say aword to each other.
So there's a lot of eyewitnessesthat come forward and see her
with men, but they're notdiscussing anything.
There was another person thatsaid that she witnessed this
woman having dinner with a greathair man and they were like
going over some paper, but theynever said anything.
(14:28):
It was just silent.
So very interesting.
When she would check into ahotel, she would use one of the
fake aliases and fake passportsfor the handwritten check in
forms.
She would change her birthdaysand occupations, but
consistently put her nationalityas Belgian.
She would usually put heroccupations as a saleswoman or
an antiques dealer.
(14:49):
There was a witness who reportedseeing her talking to a man in a
hotel in Bergen, in German.
Eventually the Bergen chief ofpolice announced, interestingly,
that the woman had died bysuicide and the case was to be
closed, stating that there's noevidence to suggest that if
anything, all the evidence justpoints to a suicide.
(15:13):
This surprised everyone, eventhe police within the
department, because it'sreported that they didn't fully
believe the suicide theory.
They considered it, but there'sa lot of conflicting evidence
that suggested possiblysomething else.
However, before theinvestigation was closed,
investigators and the publicbegan formulating theories about
(15:35):
the Isdal Woman's true identityand her mysterious demise.
One theory was espionage, orspy.
The Cold War was at its peak in1970, and Norway with its
strategic location was a hotspotfor intelligence activities.
The women's use of multipleidentities, her European
(15:57):
travels, and her seeming,caution about being followed
suggested that she would havebeen involved in espionage.
Some believe that she could havebeen a double agent who was
eliminated by intelligenceoperatives.
And there's also a report at ahotel where, I think it was like
a bellboy saw this woman in afur hat and the only thing that
(16:19):
he could think of that itreminded him of was like the
Soviet hats.
I'm not sure if that's what itwas, but that's just what it
reminded him of.
Sophia (16:26):
Or maybe she was trying to portray herself as that.
Elena (16:29):
Possibly.
Sophia (16:29):
It's interesting to think of her potentially being
eliminated by somebody who wason her own team.
Elena (16:35):
Exactly
Sophia (16:36):
It's always so fascinating to me that many of
these agents or spies orwhatever you want to call them
know so many different languagesand are able to so easily adapt
and morph and become chameleonsinto whoever they want to be.
Because for myself, even thatsounds cool in some ways, I know
(16:56):
I don't even have the talentsand the skills to do that.
So to think of her having, theability to know all these
different languages and changeherself whenever she needs to is
just so interesting andfascinating.
Elena (17:10):
Some people have even speculated that maybe she didn't
really have broken English andthat she was just pretending
that she did.
Sophia (17:15):
Ooh, that's really interesting.
Elena (17:17):
Maybe even pretended to get stuff wrong in German on the
check ins too, who knows?
Sophia (17:22):
She would have to be a really great actress for that,
and totally possible, right?
But that requires definitelysome serious skill and talent.
Elena (17:30):
Right.of course.
The other theory is likecriminal or covert operations.
So some theories, propose thatshe may have been involved in
illegal trade or intelligencework related to the military.
During her travel, she visitedareas near Norway's military
testing sites, raisingsuspicions that she was
gathering intelligence for anunknown party.
(17:52):
A fisherman reported seeing aweird woman that looked Russian
and too well dressed for theharbor.
He witnessed her talking to anaval officer for a while right
by Norwegian Navy ships thatwere testing a new target
seeking missile.
Now this theory I don't reallybelieve in, and I think a lot of
people have just debunked this,but I'm still going to put it in
(18:13):
there.
Some people have considered thatshe could have been doing sex
work.
Meaning that she could have beena sex worker or a prostitute and
that's why she was seen withdifferent men.
However, it is strange that asex worker would go through all
of this to hide her identity andchange her look.
To me, a sex worker is a littlefar but it could explain why the
(18:35):
men that she was seen with nevercame forward.
Sophia (18:38):
And it's also hard to imagine a sex worker knows all
these different languages and isportraying herself in all these
different ways.
Elena (18:47):
It's definitely a little far fetched for me.
I feel like weirdly theespionage theory is less far
fetched than a sex worker.
There's also other reasons,obviously why the men could not
have come forward, but it couldexplain that.
And last but not least, likesuicide or mental illness.
Although it's deemed unlikely bysome, many speculate that these
(19:11):
dull woman may have taken herown life.
The sedatives in her systemsuggest an intentional overdose,
but this does not completelyexplain the fire or why all the
labels on her belongings wereremoved.
I guess it's possible that,suicide is likely given, it
would be hard, to force someoneto take 50 to 70 pills.
(19:32):
There's also some reports thatthere were like some pills
nearby, like 12 pills nearby herbody.
Which if that is true, it wouldbe conflicting, because the
pills were like partiallydigested.
If that's true, that she hadtaken 50 to 70 pills there,
waited a while, somehow fell,because remember, she had a
(19:53):
bruise on her neck.
Then decided to light herself onfire, and then, I guess, hit her
neck.
It's just strange, but at thesame time, it would be hard to
force feed someone 50 to 70pills.
Sophia (20:07):
I definitely think she could have taken 50 to 70 pills
and then falling on her neck.
But, to set herself on fireafterwards, that's a bit
unrealistic and hard to imagine.
Elena (20:18):
Right.
Sophia (20:20):
She could have been forced by gunpoint or knife
point or whatever to take 50 to70 pills.
Definitely possible and if maybethey were hanging someone else's
life over her head.
Elena (20:31):
Right.
Sophia (20:31):
100% she could have taken it and at that point If
she is spy, I think she knewvery well what was happening and
what they were setting her upfor.
D (20:40):
Were the pills just found in her system or were they found in
her stomach?
Elena (20:46):
In her stomach?
D (20:47):
So they actually found pills.
Elena (20:49):
She ate it orally and I ingested them.
D (20:52):
It sounds more like suicide then.
Sophia (20:55):
Then how do you explain her being set on fire?
You're on fire.
I should say.
D (20:59):
I have no idea.
Elena (21:00):
I think it's possible that If she fell over and hit
her neck, maybe that didn't killher and she landed on a nearby
campsite.
That campfire that some peopledo report was nearby and she,
lit herself on fire.
And somehow still survived thatand was getting up and was, like
freaking out about the fire andthen fell on her back and died.
Sophia (21:23):
That would be a really awful thing to have to
experience if you were trying tocommit suicide, and then it's
like it just keeps getting worseand worse.
Like you fall and then now youset yourself up on fire.
If you take pills and you fallasleep and go off into
unconsciousness, it's easy tojust let that happen.
Elena (21:41):
Right.
Sophia (21:41):
But then to be In that amount of pain with the fire,
she may also even want to havetried to get help just to stop
the damage that would have done.
Elena (21:51):
Oh, yeah, it would have been extremely painful, and I
feel like an instincts wouldhave kicked in at that point.
The pills were not digestedenough that she would have had
that overdose just yet if shehad not been lit on fire.
Yes, she would have had thatoverdose, because there's
definitely enough pills in therefor her.
So it's possible some of theside effects started to kick in,
(22:12):
and she slipped and she fell hither neck.
It's very possible.
I also saw another theory that,as someone in the field of
psychology I would agree with aswell, which is she could have
been having like a mental healthissue or like, a psychotic
break.
It would explain why she was soscared.
And she was maybe feeling likeshe was being watched and
(22:35):
explained like the differentwigs and all that stuff.
To me that actually seems verypossible that this was all like
due to some sort of likepsychotic break or some sort of
mental illness.
Sophia (22:49):
There was induced paranoia?
Elena (22:52):
Yes.
Sophia (22:53):
I suppose that could also explain why her tags were
removed.
Mm hmm.
Having tags removed does screamspy.
Right?
Elena (23:00):
Right.
Sophia (23:01):
Though, but of course that is possible, and I will say
the different genders, of courseeveryone is unique and specific,
but generally the differentgenders commit suicide in
different ways.
So when men commit suicide, it'smuch more violent.
Think, of course, settingyourself on fire, gun, anything
(23:22):
violent like that.
But when women commit suicide,it's less violent and less
painful.
So taking the pills, forexample, which is what she may
have done.
That would definitely be in linefor a woman committing suicide.
Elena (23:34):
It could definitely be something like she was suffering
from schizophrenia or likebipolar induced mania, something
that is going on.
And the other thing is if shewas a spy, she wasn't that great
at it.
I think about it because hercode, easy to crack.
Police cracked it prettyquickly.
Spies are supposed to be underthe radar.
(23:55):
Everyone remembered her.
They remember seeing her.
Her B.
O.
maybe it's not garlic, but she'sjust not taking care of herself.
Sophia (24:03):
She seemed to stick out.
Elena (24:05):
She did.
Sophia (24:05):
Quite often and not just it was not just one scenario.
She definitely seemed to stickout.
D (24:11):
If you remember the movie, The Beautiful Mind.
Russel Crowe.
Sophia (24:15):
I do.
D (24:16):
Schizophrenia made him think he was doing something secret,
and he thought that he wastalking to a high official, I
think in the United States andhe wasn't.
So she could just be into thatthought process.
Sophia (24:31):
Ooh, like she thinks she's a spy and working with.
Elena (24:34):
Right.
Sophia (24:35):
That's really scary.
Elena (24:35):
And given the time period, it's very possible that
could have impacted herdelusions, and why she thought
that given the whole Cold Warand all that stuff going on.
Sophia (24:46):
Well, now I feel like I have a different potential
opinion than I did the previoustime as I've explored this case.
Elena (24:53):
I would agree.
I definitely went in thinkingone way and then as I started
doing my further investigation Iwas like I can actually see it
being an accidental death, but Iwouldn't fully rule espionage
off.
It seems more likely now that itcould have been a suicide
induced by psychosis or a mentalillness or a psychotic break or
(25:15):
Schizophrenia or something likethat.
D (25:16):
It could have been a suicide and as the pills were setting
in, maybe she was losing controlof her body and then panicking.
And then she fell in the fire,which made things worse, because
her whole body didn't burn onlythe upper.
That makes sense.
If you're trying to stand up andyou can't, the first thing that
goes sometimes is your head.
So you fall over like that.
Elena (25:37):
But she felt back.
D (25:38):
Oh, she felt back.
Okay.
Elena (25:40):
Yeah, either way.
D (25:40):
That's what I'm saying is she fell.
Her legs didn't burn.
Her upper body burned.
I'm thinking that she lostcontrol of her body, and then
she came out of it maybe orrolled out, and she still didn't
know what was going on.
And she may not have beenfeeling pain.
Elena (25:56):
True.
if the pills had kicked in.
D (25:57):
Had kicked in.
Right.
All she's feeling is she can,maybe have control of her body.
Elena (26:02):
Right.
D (26:02):
Maybe that's creating more of a paranoia or more of a panic,
because she took the pills butthen maybe she doesn't remember.
Elena (26:09):
I would think that she at least had some motor functions
because if she fell forward onthe campsite, that may or may
not have been there.
She still would have enoughcontrol in her body to get up.
So that way she can fall on herback.
Sophia (26:24):
I don't know if that's true though.
Maybe she was trying to get upbut she just fell like she
couldn't balance herself.
Elena (26:29):
Yeah, yeah.
But I'm saying she at least hadenough to get up.
Sophia (26:32):
And maybe she even had that only for a minute or two
and then lost that ability.
Can't they confirm if there is acamp or at this point if there
was a campsite there?
Elena (26:43):
Yeah.
So I'll say this, I've seenreports talking about a
campfire.
There's been a few that havementioned it, but there's no
credible new sources or anythingreleased by the police that
fully confirms that.
It's usually just like otherpeople who do their research,
and they're relaying that, but Idon't know where they're getting
(27:05):
that research, where they'regetting that evidence from.
So it could have just been likea rumor that started
speculating.
On February 5th, 1971, she wasburied in a zinc coffin to
preserve her remains in case offurther investigation in the
Mollendal Graveyard in Bergen,where Bergen police officers
attended.
(27:25):
And unfortunately, it seemedthat only it was the Bergen
police officers that attended,and they did give her a Catholic
burial just because, the namesthat were used were Catholic
saint names.
That's why they decided to dothat.
D (27:41):
Did they put any posters in Europe to see if anyone could
identify her?
Elena (27:46):
Yeah, they put the sketch out everywhere.
That's why a lot of theseeyewitnesses started to come
forward and say, hey, I think Isaw this woman at this harbor.
I think this person was at thishotel and whatnot.
So yes, they did put thesepictures out.
Everywhere they could.
D (28:04):
But no one identified her as far as they knew who she was.
Elena (28:08):
No, no one was like, this is whatever.
I will say when they were doingan autopsy, there's no evidence
that she had given birth.
So it doesn't seem like she hasany kids, but as her family,
relative, friends, no one hascome forward to say that they
know this woman.
So the case of the Isdal Womanis one of the most enduring
(28:29):
mysteries in modern criminalhistory.
Whether, she was a spy, a victimof assassination, or a woman
struggling with mental illness.
Her story continues to captivatethose who seek the truth.
The unanswered questionssurrounding her death, who she
was, why she traveled so widely,and how she met her tragic fate,
(28:50):
ensure that the mystery of theIsdal Woman remains one of
Norway's most haunting andperplexing cold cases.
Even after decades,investigators and journalists
continue to pursue new leads,hoping that advances in forensic
science or a long hidden pieceof evidence might finally crack
the case.
(29:10):
The enigma surrounding hermovements, multiple identities,
and the sheer effort to eraseher traces suggest that someone,
somewhere, knows more than theyhave ever revealed.
Until that truth emerges, theIsdal Woman remains a ghostly
figure in the records of crime,a puzzle whose solution may yet
lie hidden in the shadows ofhistory.
Sophia (29:33):
I'm curious to hear what our listeners think happened to
her.
So, if you all could commentyour opinions, if you think it
was mental illness or if it wassomehow spy related, or
whatever, really want to hearwhat everyone else thinks.
Because this one is definitelyinteresting and fascinating to
me.
Elena (29:52):
Yeah, every time I like want to lean one way, there's
always something about someother theory that I'm like, this
doesn't quite explain that.
But then if I put the leantowards that there, I keep going
back and forth.
Sophia (30:05):
Right.
I feel like if she was a spy,she would have done better to
conceal herself, but it's sointeresting, because I feel like
until now, I had always assumedit was somehow spy related, but
now my opinion has changed.
Elena (30:19):
Yeah, I think that for me is one of the biggest things is
if she was really a spy.
I don't think there would bethat many identifications of
her, but I wonder who those menwere.
That she kept meeting up withdifferent guys.
Maybe it was, I don't know.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Sophia (30:41):
It could have been, she was a prostitute or meeting with
them as if though she was aprostitute.
Elena (30:46):
Maybe as part of her illness, her thinking that.
Sophia (30:50):
Because if she was ill, how was she getting money?
Elena (30:53):
True.
That's true.
Maybe she was using that.
As a way and that would makesense as to why they were quiet
But if that's the case, I don'tthink she was just a sex worker.
I think there has to besomething mixed in with it like
some sort of mental illness orbreak or something like that.
Sophia (31:10):
100 percent.
I still think there isdefinitely mental illness at
play.
Elena (31:15):
Mom any thoughts?
D (31:16):
No, she sounds like she probably had mental illness.
Maybe there's no way of knowingwhich country she came from.
Mm hmm.
And if she didn't have anyincome, she probably did some
prostitution to get some money.
And the men who probably nevercame forward, probably never
even realized that they weretalking about her when they
said, they found this woman.
Because, in their minds, she'sjust a prostitute.
(31:38):
They may not even remember herface or anything.
Elena (31:41):
True.
Sophia (31:43):
Yeah, I think a lot of them would not even put the dots
together or unfortunately thinkmuch about her.
Elena (31:50):
I'm sure there might have been like some reports that If
you looked like this and youwere in this hotel at this date
with a woman that looked likethis description, maybe then
those guys would've been like,oh yeah, that was me.
But if they're there for sexwork.
Sophia (32:03):
They're not gonna say anything.
Elena (32:04):
Right.
Especially in that time.
Nowadays, I feel like maybepolice officers would be like,
Hey, we don't care.
If you were doing that, we justwant to get the information.
But back then they may not haveknown that, or the police would
care about that, so maybe thatkept them quiet.
Or they had wives, they had afamily, business, they had a
job, a whole life that theycouldn't risk.
Sophia (32:25):
Did they examine her private area to see if she had
semen in her or not?
Elena (32:31):
No.
There is no mention of that.
Possibly could have been thefire maybe damaged?
I'm not sure.
Sophia (32:39):
But if she only had fire on the upper half of her body,
if something did happen, thatwould definitely give more
context to the story.
Elena (32:48):
True, but I don't think there was anything in the
autopsy to suggest, yes, it didhappen.
My guess is either it wasinconclusive, maybe the fire
damage was too bad, just soawful they couldn't tell, or
there was just no evidence ofanything like that.
Sophia (33:05):
Okay, because even if it wasn't showing that she was
raped or anything violent likethat, having multiple semen
samples would definitely pointin the direction of her
potentially being a prostitute.
D (33:18):
Yeah, but if she didn't have any Joes for two, three days
right after a while.
Maybe she wasn't doing it allthe time.
Sophia (33:27):
That's true.
Elena (33:28):
That's unfortunately all I have for this case any last
thoughts
Sophia (33:33):
I don't think we're gonna get this one solved; even
though, I wish we could.
But it'll be interesting to seewhat happens with It.
Elena (33:39):
You didn't think we're gonna solve it right here and
right now.
Sophia (33:42):
No, I'm saying of course the longer this goes on the less
likely it is to be solved.
Mm hmm And I would not besurprised if this one in
particular was never solved.
Elena (33:53):
Yeah, unfortunately.
This is like one of the caseswhere I'd really want to see a
solve.
Or some sort of answer, but, Ifeel like the only way we'd ever
get an answer is if she wasactually a spy, and we caught
the person who killed her.
Sophia (34:08):
Not necessarily, if we were able to determine her
identity,
Elena (34:11):
Oh yeah, you know what, that's true.
Sophia (34:12):
Because then the people who knew her could say yes she
really suffered with mentalillness or she never seemed to
have any sort of struggles,issues.
Elena (34:20):
Right.
Exactly.
D (34:20):
Did they ever think of opening her now and getting DNA?
Elena (34:24):
They did.
That's how they got the newupdate with the teeth, and where
she was born.
And all that.
D (34:30):
How long ago was this?
Sophia (34:31):
If they do genealogy tests?
D (34:33):
They'll figure it.
Sophia (34:35):
Ooh, that would be really interesting.
That could really actually helpwith the case.
Elena (34:40):
It was in 2017 where they got the isotope analysis of the
woman's teeth.
D (34:46):
But they do genealogy DNA now, so I think they could
probably even narrow it downmore, since they know it's from
Germany, they could probablystart there.
Oh, in Germany you can't do DNAtesting, I think.
Sophia (35:00):
But she didn't die in Germany.
D (35:02):
I know.
But if she was born in Germany,I think there's something about
Germany.
Sophia (35:07):
How are they going to know that though?
D (35:09):
Who?
Sophia (35:09):
I think she's in Norway's custody.
Right?
Elena (35:13):
They've done a lot of DNA though, with her.
They have some like MT DNA,Harpo group eight to find out
that she had maternal descentfrom Southeast Europe or
Southwest Asia.
But I don't know, causedifferent countries have
different regulations.
So like the Belgian and Norwaywould have to work with Germany
(35:35):
and France.
And I just don't know if they'rewilling to do that.
If a lot of people now are justassuming it's a suicide.
Which is unfortunate andheartbreaking because the family
still deserves answers
D (35:51):
They could still do it, I think.
I don't think that matters.
The other thing is, even if theyput the posters around of her
face back then, if her familythought she was living in the
streets, they never would expectto see that there's a picture of
a woman in Norway and think it'sher.
So it could be that they saw,they're like, yeah, whatever.
(36:14):
I didn't think of anything ofit, because, she was from
another country and they knewshe was in the streets or left.
Because,,if she wasn't fromNorway, probably didn't think of
it.
Elena (36:24):
I saw that it could also be due to a lack of just enough
DNA for a genealogy sample.
That could also effect theirability to do an adequate
sample, because I know you needa lot of DNA for a genealogy
test.
Unfortunately that is all wehave for this case, but I do
want to thank you for listeningto us this week.
(36:44):
We love our listeners, and it'sbecause of each and every one of
you that we do this podcast.
Your help and engagement isreally what helps this podcast
grow.
And if you enjoy this episode,please send it to a friend or
family member to listen to.
And until next time, make sureyou stay on the Eerie Side.
Bye guys.
Bye.
Bye and be
D (37:03):
safe.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!