January 23, 2025 • 49 mins
Gary Heidnik was a sick monster who kidnapped six women into his home in Philadelphia in the 1980s. He would torture them for months, even keeping one chained to a radiator. Gary wasn’t just a criminal though; he thought he was running his own 'church'—a sick, twisted version of it. Gary kept these women captive in his basement because his plan was to create his own big family. Unfortunately, this was just the tip of the iceberg. Tune in as we go deep inside the mind of monster Gary Heidnik.
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Episode Transcript
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Sophia (00:01):
Hey guys, welcome to the Eerie Side podcast with your
hosts, Sophia, D, and Elena.
We appreciate you guys listeningand I hope you're ready to get
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(00:49):
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Before we begin, please be awarethat this episode contains
detailed discussions aboutdisturbing and tragic events
(01:29):
involving torture, sexualassault, and murder.
We understand the subject mattermay be deeply unsettling or
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Listener discretion is advised.
If you feel this content may betoo difficult for you, we
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(01:51):
All right, everyone.
The case I'm doing today takesplace in Philadelphia.
I wanted to do a Pennsylvaniacase because we actually have a
lot of listeners inPennsylvania, especially
Philadelphia.
So this is one for all of youPennsylvania and Philly
listeners.
The case is about Gary Heidnik.
(02:12):
Do either of you two know him?
Elena (02:15):
No.
D (02:16):
Something sounds familiar, but I don't have a clear
picture.
Sophia (02:20):
It's a very brutal one.
In this story, Gary is not thegood guy.
He ends up doing a lot ofterrible things to women, which
is not surprising given what heexperiences in his childhood.
Not to excuse it, but when welook at some of these monsters,
oftentimes they've had traumaticchildhoods, and Gary definitely
(02:40):
fits into this.
Gary Heidnik was born onNovember 22nd, 1943 in East
Lake, Ohio, which is a suburb ofCleveland.
His parents were Michael andEllen Heidnik, and he had a
younger brother, Terry.
After their parents divorced in1946, Gary and his brother were
raised by their mother for fouryears before being placed in the
(03:02):
care of their dad and his newwife.
Gary would later claim that hewas emotionally abused by his
father.
He struggled with a lifelongproblem of bedwetting and said
that his father would humiliatehim by forcing him to hang his
stained sheets from his bedroomwindow in full view of the
neighbors.
However, this is something thathis father would later deny.
(03:23):
At school, Gary did not interactwith other students and he
refused to make eye contact.
An example of Gary beingantisocial is when one time a
well meaning new girl studentasked him, did you get the
homework done, Gary?
He yelled at her and told hershe was not worthy enough to
talk to him.
Gary was also teased about hisoddly shaped head, which he and
(03:47):
Terry claimed was the result ofhim falling out of a tree when
he was younger.
Looking at pictures of him, Ihave a hard time seeing his head
as being unusually shaped, butmaybe it was more noticeable
when he was younger.
Nonetheless, Gary performed wellacademically and tested with an
IQ of 148.
With his father's encouragement,when Gary was 14 years old, he
(04:09):
enrolled at the StauntonMilitary Academy in Staunton,
Virginia for two years, and heleft right before graduation.
At some point, he ended up backin public school, after which he
dropped out and joined theUnited States Army when he was
17.
Gary's military service ended uplasting 13 months.
During basic training, his drillsergeant graded him as
(04:30):
excellent.
He applied for severalspecialist positions, including
the military police, but wasrejected.
He was assigned to San Antonio,Texas to be trained as a medic
and did well through medicaltraining.
However, Gary did not stay inSan Antonio for long and was
transferred to the 46th ArmySurgical Hospital in Landstuhl,
(04:50):
West Germany.
Within weeks of his new posting,he earned his GED.
In August 1962, Gary begancomplaining of severe headaches,
dizziness, blurred vision, andnausea.
A hospital neurologist diagnosedGary with gastroenteritis.
And noted that he also displayedsymptoms of mental illness for
(05:10):
which he was prescribed InOctober 1962, Gary was
transferred to a militaryhospital in Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania, where he wasdiagnosed with Schizoid
Personality Disorder, and thenwas honorably discharged from
military service.
I'm not a psychologist.
But according to Mayo Clinic,Schizoid Personality Disorder
(05:35):
is,"A condition where a personshows very little, if any,
interest and ability to formrelationships with other people.
It's very hard for the person toexpress a full range of
emotions.
If you have Schizoid PersonalityDisorder, you may be seen as
keeping to yourself or rejectingothers.
You may not be interested in, orable to form close friendships
(05:56):
or romantic relationships.
Because you do not tend to showemotion, it may appear that you
do not care about others orwhat's going on around you."
Elena (06:06):
It's actually really interesting that you're doing a
case about that because I'm in aclass that's actually right now
and I'm learning about that.
Sophia (06:13):
Schizoid personality disorder?
Elena (06:14):
Well it's one of the disorders that I'm learning
about, yeah.
Sophia (06:17):
That's so interesting because sometimes I will
randomly go and read them andit's hard to understand what
kind of person that you knowactually fits into this.
But knowing Gary, knowing how hetreated people, at least like
for example that one girl who hecompletely shut down.
He fits right into this.
D (06:38):
When the military honorably discharged Gary, did they also
release him from the medicalhospital?
Or was he still in there?
Elena (06:49):
That's a good question.
Sophia (06:51):
That's a good question.
I'm not sure, but I do know thatGary spent his adulthood in and
out of psychiatric hospitals.
So, potentially he was still ina psychiatric hospital.
D (07:04):
Okay, I was just wondering if the government just decided
goodbye, go out on the streets,you're not part of the military,
and let him be or not.
Sophia (07:13):
He was transferred to the military hospital, and then
he was diagnosed with it, andthen he was discharged.
But after they discharged, I'mnot sure if he had to leave,
because he was in a militaryhospital, or if they sent him to
another hospital, I'm not sure.
But he was in and out ofhospitals quite frequently, so.
D (07:31):
Okay.
Sophia (07:32):
Shortly after his discharge, Gary became a
licensed practical nurse andenrolled at the University of
Pennsylvania, but dropped outafter one semester.
He then worked at a VeteransAdministration Hospital in
Coatesville, but was fired forpoor attendance and rude
behavior towards patients.
In terms of his mental health,like I mentioned, Gary spent his
(07:54):
adulthood in and out ofpsychiatric hospitals and had
attempted suicide at least 13times.
Unfortunately, his familystruggled with their own mental
health too.
In 1970, his mother, who hadbeen diagnosed with bone cancer
and was struggling withalcoholism, took her own life by
drinking mercuric chloride.
(08:15):
His brother, Terry, also spenttime in mental institutions and
attempted suicide multipletimes.
In October 1971, Gary started achurch called The United Church
of the Ministers of God, and itinitially only had five
followers.
Then, in 1975, he opened anaccount under the church's name
(08:35):
with Merrill Lynch.
Elena (08:37):
Wait, just to double check, you said he started his
own church?
Yep.
Okay, interesting.
Sophia (08:44):
I know this is taking an interesting turn.
The initial deposit that he putin his account in Merrill Lynch
was for$1,500 and Garyeventually acquired over
$500,000, which in today's moneyin 2025 would be$2.9 million.
So Gary's doing pretty well.
D (09:04):
Where did he get the money?
I missed that.
Sophia (09:07):
I didn't say, but essentially just by growing the
church is how he managed.
D (09:11):
Oh, I thought maybe he got some loan or something.
Sophia (09:13):
The only thing I have is that he successfully amassed
$550,000 through his brokerageaccount.
He was an investor.
believe he got that throughinvesting.
Later on, somebody who wasfamiliar with his finances
mentioned that he was an astuteinvestor.
So I think it probably came frominvesting.
(09:35):
And as he continued the church,I'm wondering if maybe some of
it came from church donations aswell, but I'm not entirely sure.
So by 1986, the United Church ofthe Ministers of God was doing
very well financially.
So, let's go back a little bit.
I told you that he started thechurch in 1971, and 15 years
(09:58):
later, 1986, it was doing verywell.
But, after he started thechurch, 5 years after, in 1976,
Gary was charged with aggravatedassault and carrying, and
procuring an unlicensed pistolafter shooting at the tenant of
a house he offered for rent.
The bullet ended up grazing theman's face.
(10:20):
Now, when it came to his lovelife and dreams for the future,
Gary wanted to have a bigfamily.
In the 1970s, he dated a womannamed Gail Lincow.
After dating for a while, thetwo gave birth to a son named
Gary Jr.
But shortly after his birth, hewas put into foster care.
The reason he was put intofoster care was because Gail was
(10:41):
mentally disabled.
In the late 1970s, Gary gotinvolved in a relationship with
Anjeanette Davidson.
Anjeanette was illiterate andalso had a mental disability,
just like Gail.
So Anjeanette ended up givingbirth to a daughter named Maxine
on March 16th, 1978.
(11:01):
However, just like his firstchild, Maxine was placed in
foster care in 1978 due toAnjeanette's mental
disabilities.
Okay, around the same time, Garylearned about Anjeanette's
sister, Alberta Davidson, whoalso had a mental disability.
Alberta was in an institutionfor the mentally disabled, and
so in 1978, Gary decided toabduct Alberta from the
(11:26):
institution.
He then went and he signedAlberta out of the Harrisburg
State Hospital.
Elena (11:32):
Oh, I think you're saying he like kidnapped her.
Like he did, but he's like stillsigned her out.
Sophia (11:38):
Yes, because he's, he really wasn't supposed to do
what he did.
I'm just letting you know howthe kidnapping went.
Elena (11:44):
Oh, okay.
Sophia (11:44):
He wasn't supposed to sign her out.
He had no right to do that.
Elena (11:47):
I thought you, it like broke in and snuck in and like.
Sophia (11:50):
That's what I thought at first, but after I right into
it, it wasn't how it happened.
And also, it's also a kidnappingjust based on what he does to
her, right after this.
And so he signed her out on dayleave.
But then he imprisoned her in alocked storage room in his
basement.
To be honest, I'm not sure if hewould have been able to sign her
out if he didn't do thefollowing, but regardless, it
(12:11):
was a kidnapping because of whathappened.
Anyways, after Alberta was foundand returned to the hospital.
An examination revealed that shehad been raped and sodomized and
that she had contractedgonorrhea as well.
Elena (12:26):
Oh my God.
Sophia (12:28):
Yeah, I mean, he's just a beast, honestly.
D (12:32):
Okay.
We're on number three here and Iwas wondering if he was arrested
at this point and put in jail.
He himself has some mentalissues.
He is finding vulnerable womenwho have mental issues.
He gets to the point that he'skidnapping them and raping them.
(12:54):
He has two children who are infoster care.
No one has arrested him.
No one has done anything.
Sophia (13:00):
Well, keep in mind, he technically didn't do anything
wrong with Anjeanette and Gail.
Elena (13:08):
True.
And there's nothing arrestable.
D (13:11):
There is for the last one.
Elena (13:13):
For the last one, of course.
D (13:14):
I mean, he has a record of, you know, doing something that
isn't healthy for the community.
And now he's leveled up tokidnapping and raping.
So are there any consequences to
Sophia (13:31):
Yes, well for Alberta, because I'm assuming her mental
disability was more challengedthan her sister's.
I'm not entirely sure.
She was in the institution, andthe fact that he ended up doing
all these things to her and itwas a rape, I'm assuming there
was no way she could consent toanything.
Gary was arrested and chargedand convicted of kidnapping,
(13:52):
rape, unlawful restraint, falseimprisonment, involuntary
deviant sexual intercourse, andinterfering with the custody of
a committed person.
The original sentence wasoverturned on appeal and Gary
spent three years of hisincarceration to being released
in April of 1983 under thesupervision of a state
(14:15):
sanctioned mental healthprogram.
So, really, seems like he wasn'tsupposed to take her out
anyways, regardless.
And,,as we'll find out, Albertahad not been mentally fit to
take the stand and because ofthat Gary got away with a
lighter conviction.
After his incarceration, Gary'sobsession with having a family
(14:38):
only seemed to have gottenstronger.
When Gary was released, he triedto locate Anjeanette but was
unable to do so.
So he resorted to a matrimonialservice to find another partner
for himself.
In 1983, he met a Filipino womannamed Betty Disto.
Betty was in the Philippines.
So for a couple of years, theysent each other letters to get
(14:59):
to know each other before Garyeventually proposed to her.
Then Betty came to the UnitedStates in September 1985, and
they tied the knot in Marylandin the following month on
October 3rd and were legallymarried.
However, this marriage did notlast long because Betty ended up
catching Gary in bed with threeother women.
Elena (15:20):
Wait, like three all at once?
Sophia (15:22):
Yes, three all at once.
Elena (15:24):
Oh my God.
Sophia (15:25):
And it gets even worse because supposedly he would even
force Betty to be an onlookerwhile he had sex with these
other women right in front ofher.
Elena (15:33):
Ew.
Yeah.
He's just a man
Sophia (15:36):
So gross.
Betty would also accuse Gary ofraping and assaulting her.
And so with the help of theFilipino community in
Philadelphia, she was able toleave Gary in January 1986.
Gary was eventually arrestedagain and charged with assault,
indecent assault, spousal rape,and involuntary deviant sexual
(15:57):
intercourse.
Then in 1987, and by that time,Gary and Betty had already
gotten a divorce, Bettyrequested child support payments
from Gary, which is how helearned that on September 15,
1986, she had given birth to ason, whom she named Jesse John
Disto.
So Betty left Gary in January1986 and later on that year he
(16:22):
would start committing thecrimes he is most notorious for
to this day.
D (16:27):
So these crimes are more notorious than what he's already
committed?
Sophia (16:31):
Yes, much much more.
In my opinion, he's one of theworst people we've done.
So let's get into it.
This next part is really brutaland disgusting, so just take
care of yourselves.
On November 25th, 1986, whenGary was 43 years old, he
abducted a 25 year old womannamed Josefina Rivera.
(16:54):
Josefina had gotten into drugsat an early age and by 25 she
was working as a prostitute indowntown Philadelphia to
maintain her habit.
Josefina was picked up by Garywho convinced her to go back to
his house.
After they had sex, he chokedher from behind, put her in
handcuffs, and led herdownstairs naked to his run down
(17:15):
basement cellar.
And she was tied to a radiatorin what was described as a cold,
dark hole in the ground.
The first few days of hercaptivity, Gary beat her, and
Josefina thought eventually hewould kill her.
But after those first few days,Gary told her the real reason he
brought her down there.
He said, I want to have kids.
(17:35):
Lots of them.
I got kids already, but thestate keeps taking them off of
me.
Well, I got a way now of havingkids, so nobody can take them
away.
You're just the start.
You gonna have my babies downhere.
But not just you.
I want to get 10 girls down hereso you can all have my kids.
Elena (17:52):
Oh my God.
Sophia (17:55):
That was Josefina's reaction too.
Elena (17:57):
There's just so much to unpack there.
First of all, he's doing all ofthis just because he wants
babies?
Sophia (18:03):
Apparently.
D (18:04):
The man is unbalanced.
Elena (18:06):
Delusional more likely.
It's crazy.
Sophia (18:10):
And that's what Josefina thought because in that moment,
she thought his plan was sodelusional that there was no way
Gary would actually followthrough.
She actually said,"At first Iwas relieved.
Until then, I thought he wantedme dead.
But hearing his plan was justunbelievable."
D (18:28):
Let's throw the key away.
Sophia (18:30):
Just, just hold on a little bit.
Elena (18:32):
Mom's about ready to swallow this key.
Sophia (18:35):
Herself, yeah!
Elena (18:37):
She's like, I'll take it.
Sophia (18:40):
But unfortunately, Gary would remain true to his plan.
And by January 1987, he hadkidnapped another poor woman.
He kidnapped Sandra Lindsay.
age 24 on December 3rd, 1986.
Lisa Thomas, age 19, on December23rd, 1986.
(19:00):
Deborah Dudley, age 23, onJanuary 2nd, 1987.
And Jacqueline Askins, age 18,on January 18th, 1987.
He held all these women captivein a pit in the basement of his
house at 3520 North MarshallStreet in North Philadelphia.
The captives were starved,raped, beaten, and tortured.
(19:24):
Now, I want to say that Gary waswhite, but all of his kidnapping
and murder victims were black.
D (19:32):
If he wants them to have babies, why is he starving them?
Elena (19:36):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point.
D (19:37):
That does make no sense to me.
I mean, women who are starvingcannot get pregnant, because
they don't have enough energy.
Their body's not gonna keep achild.
So, I'm trying to understand hislogic.
Elena (19:47):
I mean, if women get too stressed, they'll stop having
their period because theirbody's like We can't have a
child right now.
Sophia (19:54):
That's a good question.
And honestly, I think it'sbecause of his unbalanced
mindset.
I don't think he's being smartabout it as you will see later
when an unfortunate eventhappens.
His response is not onlydisgusting, but I think it just
goes to show you how mentallyimbalanced he is and not
thinking about this in a logicalway if he actually wants to have
(20:15):
more babies.
Elena (20:16):
Even if a woman does get pregnant It would be unlikely
that they'd be able to carry it,the child to term, and even if
that does happen, the birthwithout medical equipment and
all this stuff, it just, I can'timagine it would be successful.
Sophia (20:30):
So the reason I mentioned that Gary's white, but
his murder victims are black isbecause Gary's lawyer, when we
get to that point, CharlesPeruto, would eventually say
that Gary was trying to enslave10 girls to have a baby with all
of them and he was going tocreate a perfect race.
He believed that the raceseventually hundreds of years
(20:52):
from now would all be mixed andthere would be only And that's
when we would find peace.
He believed white people shouldmix with black people and vice
versa, so we could get closer toa perfect race.
Elena (21:06):
This is their defense?
Sophia (21:09):
I don't know if it's his defense.
Honestly, I'm not really surehow people would take this in a
trial.
I don't know, maybe it is hisdefense.
It doesn't defend him kidnappingthese women against their will.
Elena (21:24):
I can't imagine them being like, well, we enslaved
them and people in the jury belike, you know what?
I can't see it.
Cuz didn't he, in the quote,didn't he say, like, he enslaved
them?
Sophia (21:35):
Yes, he did mention that he was enslaving them to create
a perfect race.
But, of course, it's justproblematic.
D (21:40):
I just don't understand why the attorney thought this was
something he needed to informus.
Because Gary is a nobody and noone asked Gary to create the
perfect race.
So I guess I'm missing the pointof an attorney making a comment
that makes no sense to me.
Elena (22:00):
Yeah, Gary, no one asked you.
Sophia (22:02):
That's a perfect point.
D (22:03):
Well, Gary didn't say it, his attorney said it.
Sophia (22:05):
Here's the thing.
I think aspiring for a perfectrace.
It's problematic as a whole.
D (22:11):
Well, it appears to me that the attorney didn't know what to
say and came up with acompletely stupid idea and made
a comment on it.
If you want to get up and saythat to the media, what are you
really saying?
Sophia (22:27):
I think, and what I'm about to tell you is, I think
one of the reasons he includedthis is because he's trying to
make Gary seem insane and unfitfor prison, so he can, be sent
to, a mental institution or justget off on a lesser charge.
So, this would actually,potentially help his defense,
depending on how you want toargue it.
Elena (22:48):
It seems like he knew what he was doing was wrong,
though.
I mean, he's hiding them.
Sophia (22:54):
It's a good point.
D (22:55):
Oh wow, we all want Gary to be the father of the perfect
race.
Sophia (23:03):
Okay, let's get back into it.
One of the woman, 24 year oldSandra Lindsay, unfortunately
ended up dying on February 7th,1987 from a combination of
starvation, torture, and anuntreated fever after being
suspended to the ceiling for twodays by her wrists.
(23:24):
Gary's reaction to her deathshows just how disgusting he is.
Thinking she was pregnant, whenhe realized she was dead, he
said, Oh man, what a waste of ababy.
Elena (23:36):
Wow, not even dressing the woman that just died.
So he just sees them as objects,basically, like sex objects.
Sophia (23:41):
Yes, in order to get his children.
And it kind of goes to what yousaid is why, mom, earlier, is
why is he starving them if hewants them to have babies?
It really doesn't make anysense.
He's illogical.
He's mentally imbalanced.
So I just don't think he's beinga logical individual at this
point.
Gary dismembered her body buthad problems dealing with the
(24:02):
arms and legs, so he put them ina freezer and labeled them dog
food.
He cooked her ribs in an ovenand boiled her head in a pot on
the stove.
Police officers came to hishouse after his neighbors
complained that a nauseatingodor was emanating from his
residence.
They ended up leaving thoughbecause Gary said that he had
been cooking a roast and hadfallen asleep and burnt it and
(24:25):
they just believed him.
Elena (24:27):
It's kind of sounding like Dahmer.
Sophia (24:29):
It's reminding me of Omaima.
Elena (24:30):
Oh yeah, she did that too.
Sophia (24:31):
Yeah, she did this whole cookin up thing.
Allegedly, Gary would end upgrinding Sandra's flesh, mixing
it with dog food, and feeding itto his other victims.
However, his defense attorney,Chuck Peruto, said that upon
examination of a cusinart andother tools in his kitchen, they
found no evidence of this.
Chuck said that Gary made up thestory to support the insanity
(24:54):
defense, and that Gary startedthe rumor of cannibalism in
public, and that there was noevidence of anyone eating human
flesh.
However, Josefina said that theythought they ate Sandra because
they were forced to eatsomething that she said,"There
was this horrible, horriblesmell I will never forget in my
life.
It was bad.
(25:14):
This odor was consuming." So,Josefina and the other woman
think that they did eat Sandrajust because they were given
some kind of meat that smelledabsolutely horrid.
Elena (25:25):
Interesting.
What do you think?
Do you think that it was her?
Sophia (25:30):
I personally believe Josefina and the woman.
I think if they're being fedtheir normal food and then all
of a sudden, after Sandra diesand he's been processing her
body parts.
Disgustingly, and then they'regiven this piece of meat that
smells unusually bad.
Don't forget he burnt it too.
So I'm gonna have to believethem.
D (25:49):
I need the key and I'm gonna throw it in the deepest parts of
the ocean.
This is the most disgustingthing I've heard.
Elena (25:55):
That's just crazy.
To do that to the women.
They're going through thistrauma together, so after they
saw one of the girls die and ontop of that they're being forced
to possibly the other one isjust is just trauma beyond
trauma.
Sophia (26:12):
And to think that they could be next.
Elena (26:14):
Yeah.
Did they ever find her body?
Sophia (26:17):
Yes.
D (26:18):
First of all, if he was emotionally abused as a child,
what he's doing is beyondnormal.
People have been emotionallyabused and yeah, they become
criminals.
They do things, but.
It's just, this sounds really,really bad.
Furthermore, I don't know thismental abuse thing, this is
(26:39):
worse than mental abuse.
I mean, this is just severe.
Elena (26:43):
Psychological torture.
D (26:44):
Yeah, this is beyond him having mental Oh, there's
there's something else going onhere
Elena (26:50):
In addition to just physically torturing them He's
psychologically torturing themto just with this idea of like
giving them to eat right.
D (27:00):
The other woman.
This is.
Elena (27:02):
Unbelievable.
D (27:03):
If he's going to sit there and claim that he was
emotionally abused as a child, Idon't see the severity of his
childhood.
Unless, they don't all knoweverything that happened to him.
I mean, this is like more thanbeing having mental illness.
There's something else going onhere.
Sophia (27:20):
Honestly, who knows what the heck happened.
Who knows if he was moregenetically predispositioned to
become like this if he had somenegative environments in his
childhood or who knows whatreally happened.
Later on in this case, I willshare a quote that his niece
said.
But she essentially says thatthe whole family was screwed up
and really weird.
(27:41):
And he did suffer physical abusetoo.
But who even knows to the extentof it what happened.
And don't forget, Gary was ahuge bedwetter as a child.
And sometimes that can meanthere's some sexual abuse going
on.
And not to say that becausesomebody experiences sexual
abuse as a child, that they'regoing to turn up like Gary, but
if he has a certain geneticpredisposition and then also
(28:03):
experiences these effects in hischildhood, it could set him on
the wrong course for life.
D (28:07):
Does bedwetting also represent sexual abuse or just
having an emotional, or physicalabuse in the home too?
Sophia (28:14):
Good question.
I'm not entirely sure.
I've heard it stated more assexual
Elena (28:21):
I do know that there is some research that suggests that
bedwetting can also be, like,any sort of disturbing event
that they've had in their life.
So it could be not just sexualabuse, it can be other abuse or
just trauma or any sort of badthing that happened could
contribute to bedwetting.
D (28:40):
Well, his whole childhood had trauma.
So that makes sense for him.
Sophia (28:45):
And then if he's being punished for the bedwetting,
it's just a vicious cycle.
Elena (28:48):
Right.
Sophia (28:51):
I do want to say that Gary's supposed best friend,
Cyril Brown.
Witnessed Sandra's death in thebasement and saw Gary
dismembering her body.
If he was in the basement, I'mgoing to assume there's no way
he could have missed the otherwoman being held captive there.
Yeah.
D (29:08):
Was he also going to be a father of the human race?
The perfect human race?
Sophia (29:13):
They never mentioned anything about being sexually
abused by him, but who knows?
What, what was going on in hismind and Gary's mind.
Elena (29:22):
Still, he saw a murder and I'm assuming he didn't do
anything.
Sophia (29:25):
And he saw other women who were being captive and
didn't try and help them.
Elena (29:29):
Exactly.
D (29:30):
Isn't he a culprit then?
Sophia (29:32):
He is because not only did he not say anything about
his friend murdering anddismembering a person, but he
also like I said, did not getany help for these women, which
is just wrong.
It's disappointing on so manylevels, but if he had gotten
help for the captive, at leastone of their lives would have
been saved as we'll soon see.
D (29:49):
His friend also have mental issues?
Sophia (29:53):
It's never mentioned or talked about, but in my opinion,
there is something wrong withyou if you see people being held
against their will and you don'tdo something about it.
Elena (30:01):
Does he have a criminal record that you know of?
Sophia (30:04):
They didn't mention it in the articles that I found.
Did not mention anything aboutit.
Elena (30:08):
Okay.
Sophia (30:09):
Gary also used electric shock as a form of torture.
Gary ordered Josefina and one ofthe other three to fill a hole
in the basement with water.
He then forced Lisa, Deborah,and Jacqueline bound in chains
into a pit.
Gary then made Josefina help himapply electric current from a
(30:29):
stripped extension cord to thewoman's chains.
23 year old Deborah Dudley washorrifically electrocuted to
death on March 19, 1987, andGary disposed of her body in the
New Jersey Pine Barrens.
Gary also wrapped duct tapearound the mouths of the victims
and stabbed them in their earswith a screwdriver, which is
(30:51):
just so horrific and awful.
I can't imagine the pain theyhad to endure.
D (30:56):
It sounds more like he wanted these women for torture than for
the human race.
Sophia (31:01):
Yeah.
D (31:02):
Idea.
Sophia (31:04):
It surely does, because he is not keeping the mothers
healthy safe if he wants to behaving healthy babies.
On March 23, 1987, Gary andJosefina abducted 24 year old
Agnes Adams.
The next day, Josefina convincedGary to let her go, temporarily,
so she could visit her family.
(31:26):
But Josefina has other plans.
Josefina said she realized thatthe reason Gary wanted all those
babies was because he waslonely.
So she decided to use thisknowledge to her advantage and
pretend that she was on hisside, which is how he eventually
trusted her enough to let herleave.
So Gary drove Josefina to a gasstation and said that he would
wait for her there.
(31:47):
She walked to her boyfriend'shouse.
She initially wanted to confrontGary, but then decided to call
the police instead.
The responding officers, notingchafing from chains on her legs,
went to the gas station anddetained Gary.
At this point, Gary's bestfriend, Cyril Brown, was also
arrested.
Cyril was released on$50,000bail and an agreement that he
(32:09):
would testify against Gary.
Cyril admitted that he hadwitnessed Sandra's death in the
basement and that he hadwitnessed Gary dismembering her
body.
Shortly after his arrest inApril 1987, Gary attempted to
hang himself in his jail cell.
So, at this point, Josefina,Lisa, Jacqueline, and Agnes are
(32:29):
the remaining victims who endedup surviving.
D (32:34):
How long did he have these women captive for now at the
moment?
Sophia (32:37):
So, five months.
because he abducted Josefina inNovember of 1986 and in April of
1987 he was arrested.
Gary would refuse to take anyresponsibility and would create
all sorts of defenses in orderto try and get out of facing any
sort of punishment.
(32:57):
At his arraignment, Gary claimedthat the woman were already in
the house when he moved in,which is just ridiculous.
Elena (33:05):
I know where I know this story from.
Sophia (33:07):
Where?
Elena (33:08):
If any of you guys have not watched this, I highly,
highly, highly recommend you do.
It's called I Survived a SerialKiller.
I think I told you guys aboutthis a while ago.
When I was watching it because Iwas like, Oh my God, it's such
an interesting story.
Sophia (33:23):
I can't believe there's that many men and women, who've
survived serial killers thatthey can make a show about that.
Elena (33:27):
Oh yeah, there's, sixteen episodes.
There's one season and sixteenepisodes.
She was the last episode.
And it's Josefina Rivera comeson and she talks about it and
that's where I knew it from.
That's where I was like, I don'tremember because I thought it
was this show but I wanted todouble check.
And yes, so if you haven'twatched it, I Survived a Serial
Killer, I think it's on Hulu.
(33:48):
And crazy hearing their storiesand how they've survived.
And it's men and women, theyboth talk about all these.
It's incredible.
Because it's really sad, but youstill get to have a little bit
of hope that some peoplesurvived and that just to tell
their story and it's reallybrave.
Sophia (34:05):
Definitely have to look into that.
Elena (34:06):
Yeah, I'm shocked you didn't see the episode.
Sophia (34:11):
I just think it's crazy that he would say that these
women were already in the housewhen he moved in.
And also you're going to tell meyou show up to a house and find
women chained in the basementand you think that you
supposedly keeping them there inthat condition is supposed to
help your defense.
Again, Chuck Peruto has a great,quite an interesting defense
(34:31):
strategy, I will say.
But he has not been given thebest.
At trial, like I mentioned, Garywas defended by Charles Peruto
Jr., who attempted to prove thatGary was legally insane.
Gary's insanity claim wassuccessfully rebuted by the
prosecution, led by CharlesGallagher III.
The fact that Gary hadsuccessfully amassed
approximately$550,000 throughhis brokerage account was used
(34:55):
to prove that he was an astuteinvestor and therefore not
insane.
Testimony which was given by hisMerrill Lynch financial advisor,
Robert Kirkpatrick, was alsoused to prove Gary's mental
competence.
Robert Kirkpatrick called Garyan astute investor who knew
exactly what he was doing.
On July 1st, 1988, Gary wasconvicted of two counts of first
(35:19):
degree murder, six counts ofkidnapping, five counts of rape,
four counts of aggravatedassault, and two counts of
involuntary deviant sexualintercourse.
At his trial, Gary refused toever admit guilt, stating, I say
real or phony, they can executeme because I am innocent and I
can prove it.
(35:39):
That is the end of capitalpunishment in this state.
When you execute an innocentman, knowingly execute an
innocent man, you know therewill be no more capital
punishment in this state andpossibly anywhere else in this
country.
And you know I didn't kill themtwo, woman.
Go ahead and execute me.
Yes, I want you to execute aninnocent man so there will be no
more capital punishment".
(36:02):
clearly, Gary was just a verysick, twisted, and disturbed
man.
He was sentenced to death andincarcerated at the State
Correctional Institution atPittsburgh.
In January 1989, he attemptedsuicide with an overdose of
prescribed Thorazine, butfailed.
In 1997, Gary's daughter, MaxineDavidson White, and his ex-wife,
(36:26):
Betty, filed a suit in federalcourt in the Eastern District of
Pennsylvania in which theyrequested a stay of execution on
the basis that Gary was notcompetent enough to be executed.
After two years of legalproceedings in various courts on
July 3rd, 1999, the U.
S.
District Court for the EasternDistrict of Pennsylvania issued
(36:47):
its final ruling clearing theway for Gary's execution.
Governor of Pennsylvania TomRidge, who had campaigned and
pledged to accelerate thesigning of death warrants, which
were delayed under formerGovernor Bob Casey Sr., said
Gary's execution was justified.
Gary's daughter, Maxine, spentan hour with him before his
execution, but left before hewas actually executed.
(37:10):
Maxine's attorney, KathySwedlow, told the Post Gazette
that Maxine was devastated.
She said,"The state has executedan extremely mentally ill and
psychotic man." I just want tosay that personally, Gary was
definitely mentally ill.
He was diagnosed withpersonality disorder and I'm
sure and there is definitelymore going on because he was
(37:33):
horrifically torturing all thesewomen But I'm not sure he was
psychotic because at the veryleast he wasn't diagnosed with
psychosis.
So I don't know if he waspsychotic or not, but he wasn't
diagnosed and he definitelyseemed to be aware of what he
was doing.
So at the end of the day, Ithink he knew what he was doing
was wrong and was aware of hisactions, and it never seemed as
(37:54):
though he felt any sorrow orguilt or empathy at all for what
he did and for his victims, orat least he never showed it.
Elena (38:03):
I mean, yeah, he was still pretending that he was
innocent till his death.
Sophia (38:08):
He was trying to make it that he was innocent.
He tried all sorts of defenses.
Elena (38:12):
He knew it, but I don't know, it's just crazy that
people with so much evidencewould still be like, I didn't do
it.
Sophia (38:18):
Gary's last meal was two slices of cheese pizza and black
coffee.
He was executed by lethalinjection on July 6, 1999 at the
State Correctional Institution,Rockview, in, Bellefonte,
Pennsylvania and his body wascremated.
He was the last person executedby the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania and remains thethird of only three people
(38:42):
executed there since theresumption of the death penalty.
The other two were KeithZettlemoyer in May 1995 and Leon
Moser in August 1995.
Keith Zettlemoyer was on deathrow for murdering his friend who
was set to testify against himin a burglary case, and Leon was
(39:02):
on death row for killing hisex-wife and his two daughters.
Jacqueline attended Gary'sexecution, as did Sandra's
family and Deborah's family.
Sandra's said,"I went to theexecution, but it was too calm
and serene for me.
I'm thinking execution issomething like, turn around and
let me shoot you.
Instead, they just stuck aneedle in his arm.
(39:23):
He never looked at us, neveracknowledged us, never said he
was sorry.
He didn't say anything.
He didn't even look in ourdirection." Which, I'm just
saddened to hear that it wasn'twhat Sandra's sister hoped it
would be.
But Sandra's sister wasn't theonly one dissatisfied with the
execution.
Jacqueline said,"I watched himdie.
It didn't bring nosatisfaction." Josefina chose
(39:46):
not to attend and said, It wouldhave been better for him to sit
in a 4x4 cell.
Gary's brutal crimes, for betteror worse, supposedly inspired
the character of serial killerBuffalo Bill in the movie, The
Silence of the Lambs.
When it comes to Gary's familytoday, Maxine has managed to
stay under the radar.
She once attended TempleUniversity, but we haven't heard
(40:09):
anything about her since.
Gary's niece, Shannon Heidnik,which I told you about before,
this is what she said about thefamily,"The whole family was
screwed up and weird.
My mom told me how their dadbeat Gary real bad with a toy
wooden airplane, because he peedhis pants.
His dad was an alcoholic and hismom took poison.
(40:29):
They found her in the basement.
She was tired of the abuse.
They were really sick parentsand they gave their kids some
serious problems.
Gary and my dad left Ohio atsome point, and I'm not exactly
sure how we wound up inPennsylvania".
While Gary is no longer here,His victims are still left to
deal with the repercussions ofwhat happened to them that
night.
Reflecting on all of thisdecades later, Josefina, the
(40:51):
first victim he took, said, Iwish I hadn't gone out that
night.
I wanted to get clean for thesake of my kids.
I had three kids, and though thetwo youngest were in temporary
foster care, the judge said if Istayed off drugs, I may get them
back.
Josefina says that today, evenseeing certain objects like a
screwdriver can trigger her fromher captivity and send her into
(41:13):
a depressive episode that lastsa month.
I'm not surprised, just knowinghow a screwdriver was used for
them before.
After Gary's arrest, Josefinastill had an ordeal to go
through because some people,including the press and some of
the survivors, thought she wasan accomplice and they wanted
her charged.
Because Josefina held theextension cord with Gary and was
(41:36):
part of electrocuting the otherwoman, where Debra ultimately
died, the other victims assumedshe was in on it and are really
bothered by what she did.
They actually wanted to havecharges pressed against her.
I can see why people, especiallythe surviving woman, are
disturbed by what happened andultimately, the survivors are
the ones who can only say theywere there and experienced it
(41:58):
first hand.
But I do want to say thatJosefina was a victim too, and I
personally believe she was justtrying to do whatever it took to
survive.
And ultimately, her pretendingto be an accomplice to Gary is
what allowed him to trust herinto giving her the freedom to
walk off.
Which is ultimately what alsoended up saving her and the
other woman.
(42:18):
And we'll get into it later, butone of the survivors ends up
acknowledging this later on anddoes say that Josefina doing
what she did is what set themfree.
And if we remember Josefina wasthere for five months.
So considering some people havepeople locked up for years,
which is just so sad to thinkabout.
It seems like Josephine, whenshe had the opportunity, took it
(42:40):
to escape and help the others.
D (42:43):
These women were missing for five months?
Were the police not looking forthem?
Sophia (42:48):
We don't forget they were leading what they would
deem as high risk lifestyles,because I think most of them, if
not all of them are prostitutes.
So, you know, when unfortunatelythey went missing.
I don't know for sure, but Iknow lots of times police don't
give prostitutes the same timeand value as they would give
other victims.
D (43:09):
The police did not do their due diligence with searching for
these women, right?
Sophia (43:14):
There's no mention of the police knew these women were
missing or they didn't care oranything.
There was no mention.
I'm, not even really sure thepolice knew these women were
missing or had made anyconnections.
D (43:27):
It just doesn't sound right, because it's what six women.
Someone would have noticed.
I know they were leading livesthat maybe it's difficult to
trace or know what they'redoing.
But I mean the same thinghappened in New York where all
these women were missing andeventually they finally put it
together.
But it just sounds like no onewas looking for them.
Sophia (43:50):
I don't know.
Nothing about that is evenmentioned, and it could be no
one was looking for them.
Josefina had to give up her twoyoungest children for adoption
when she came out of the cellar,because she wasn't capable of
caring for them.
And she did pick up her drughabit again for a number of
years to cope with the ongoingtrauma.
She also returned to sex workfor a year after the trial but
(44:12):
eventually gave up bothprostitution and drugs for good.
She has since worked differentjobs as a waitress, security
guard, and daycare worker.
She said,"My time in the cellarchanged me forever.
I kept trying to go back to theperson I was before Heidnik, but
it simply wasn't possible."Josefina finally found the right
(44:34):
therapy around 2010 and she wasreunited with the children she
gave up for adoption.
She is now a grandmother of sixand close to all her family and
she has found peace at lastliving near the sea in Atlantic
City and collecting sea glass.
She even married her long termpartner, Chris Lyle.
Josefina is still in counselingand experiences panic attacks,
(44:55):
but they're less frequent.
However, she still has to turnoff the TV if she sees chains or
handcuffs.
Ultimately, though, Josefina isproud of her strength and how
far she's come and battling hertrauma.
Some final words from Josefina Iwant to share are,"You don't
ever totally get over anexperience like mine.
(45:16):
You just have to learn to livewith it.
It is a constant struggle todeal with normal life, but being
by the sea has helped.
There, I am free and safe.
For a long time, I was hauntedby Gary, by the woman who died
next to me, but not any longer.
I hope I can inspire othervictims to feel positive about
the future." All the survivorsreceived a$30,000 settlement.
(45:40):
Lisa and Agnes were never reallyable to recover from the
experience and have dealt withmental health issues and
addiction in the years since.
Jacqueline still lives inPhiladelphia and cleans houses.
She's close with her two sonswho are now adults.
and is on medication to dealwith her anxiety and trauma.
She does suffer from intenseflashbacks and still can't enter
(46:01):
any basement.
Jacqueline and Josefina did endup having a meeting that was
shown in Monster Preacher and itwas a tense and emotional
reunion.
Jacqueline said to Josefina,"Iain't gonna lie.
I did have some hate for you.
I blamed you for a lot of stuffthat happened down there." But
(46:22):
after Josefina explained herposition, Jacqueline was able to
understand her better.
Jacqueline said to her,"I thinkthe plan you did was the best
one.
We're here." The two parted on ahopeful note, believing the
reunion was essential for bothof them to heal.
Elena (46:41):
There's a lot to unpack there.
I mean, it's horrible thatthat's how people felt towards
Josefina, but I'm just glad thatpeople realized that she was a
victim too.
And that it was the only waythat they were ever going to get
out because it's, it's clearthat no one was really looking
for them.
Sophia (47:00):
I can totally understand why people, especially
Jacqueline, would be disturbedby Josefina a little bit.
D (47:08):
I'm surprised when these women were finally found, it
doesn't sound like there was anyhelp or assistance set up for
them.
I mean, not only do they needtherapists, they need medical
assistance, they need assistancefor jobs.
I mean, they've been out, theirwhole life has changed.
It's just kind of like they weresaved and there they go.
(47:30):
Bye.
Sophia (47:31):
That's a really good point.
There should be some sort ofsystem where if somebody goes
through something traumatic likethis, like a kidnapping, that
they are given the resources toget back on their feet.
D (47:43):
I mean, they were given $30,000.
That's nothing.
You can't even pay for therapyat$30,000.
So I just don't understand.
I mean, they were just kind oflike, Oh, we saved you.
Goodbye.
Go back to your normal life.
There's, no such thing as normallife after this.
Sophia (47:58):
I wonder if there's a foundation that helps victims
who have survived these sorts ofsituations.
I'm hoping and assuming thereis, but I'm not sure, and I'm
not sure to the extent that itcan help all the survivors.
Elena (48:12):
Maybe now, but back then, probably not.
Sophia (48:16):
You're right.
A lot has changed over theyears.
Elena (48:19):
I'm just glad that they got out.
I know they won't ever be thesame, but at least they're not
there.
Sophia (48:25):
True.
I'm really sad that they had togo through all of this and have
to live with the traumas of it.
But I'm happy that, at leastsome of them were able to get
out.
It's really sad for Sandra andDeborah's family, though, that
they lost their loved ones, andnot only lost them, but lost
them in horrific ways.
Elena (48:44):
It's just really unfortunate.
Sophia (48:47):
Well, this is the ending.
I want to thank you forlistening to us this week.
We love our listeners andbecause of you, we do this
podcast, your help andengagement really helps the
podcast grow.
So if you enjoyed this episode,please text it to a friend and
family member to give ourpodcast a listen.
Until next time, make sure youstay on the Eerie Side.
(49:08):
Bye! Bye! Bye guys! Be safe!
Hey guys, welcome to the Eerie Side podcast with your
hosts, Sophia, D, and Elena.
We appreciate you guys listeningand I hope you're ready to get
on the Eerie Side.
(00:49):
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Before we begin, please be awarethat this episode contains
detailed discussions aboutdisturbing and tragic events
(01:29):
involving torture, sexualassault, and murder.
We understand the subject mattermay be deeply unsettling or
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(01:51):
All right, everyone.
The case I'm doing today takesplace in Philadelphia.
I wanted to do a Pennsylvaniacase because we actually have a
lot of listeners inPennsylvania, especially
Philadelphia.
So this is one for all of youPennsylvania and Philly
listeners.
The case is about Gary Heidnik.
(02:12):
Do either of you two know him?
Elena (02:15):
No.
D (02:16):
Something sounds familiar, but I don't have a clear
picture.
Sophia (02:20):
It's a very brutal one.
In this story, Gary is not thegood guy.
He ends up doing a lot ofterrible things to women, which
is not surprising given what heexperiences in his childhood.
Not to excuse it, but when welook at some of these monsters,
oftentimes they've had traumaticchildhoods, and Gary definitely
(02:40):
fits into this.
Gary Heidnik was born onNovember 22nd, 1943 in East
Lake, Ohio, which is a suburb ofCleveland.
His parents were Michael andEllen Heidnik, and he had a
younger brother, Terry.
After their parents divorced in1946, Gary and his brother were
raised by their mother for fouryears before being placed in the
(03:02):
care of their dad and his newwife.
Gary would later claim that hewas emotionally abused by his
father.
He struggled with a lifelongproblem of bedwetting and said
that his father would humiliatehim by forcing him to hang his
stained sheets from his bedroomwindow in full view of the
neighbors.
However, this is something thathis father would later deny.
(03:23):
At school, Gary did not interactwith other students and he
refused to make eye contact.
An example of Gary beingantisocial is when one time a
well meaning new girl studentasked him, did you get the
homework done, Gary?
He yelled at her and told hershe was not worthy enough to
talk to him.
Gary was also teased about hisoddly shaped head, which he and
(03:47):
Terry claimed was the result ofhim falling out of a tree when
he was younger.
Looking at pictures of him, Ihave a hard time seeing his head
as being unusually shaped, butmaybe it was more noticeable
when he was younger.
Nonetheless, Gary performed wellacademically and tested with an
IQ of 148.
With his father's encouragement,when Gary was 14 years old, he
(04:09):
enrolled at the StauntonMilitary Academy in Staunton,
Virginia for two years, and heleft right before graduation.
At some point, he ended up backin public school, after which he
dropped out and joined theUnited States Army when he was
17.
Gary's military service ended uplasting 13 months.
During basic training, his drillsergeant graded him as
(04:30):
excellent.
He applied for severalspecialist positions, including
the military police, but wasrejected.
He was assigned to San Antonio,Texas to be trained as a medic
and did well through medicaltraining.
However, Gary did not stay inSan Antonio for long and was
transferred to the 46th ArmySurgical Hospital in Landstuhl,
(04:50):
West Germany.
Within weeks of his new posting,he earned his GED.
In August 1962, Gary begancomplaining of severe headaches,
dizziness, blurred vision, andnausea.
A hospital neurologist diagnosedGary with gastroenteritis.
And noted that he also displayedsymptoms of mental illness for
(05:10):
which he was prescribed InOctober 1962, Gary was
transferred to a militaryhospital in Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania, where he wasdiagnosed with Schizoid
Personality Disorder, and thenwas honorably discharged from
military service.
I'm not a psychologist.
But according to Mayo Clinic,Schizoid Personality Disorder
(05:35):
is,"A condition where a personshows very little, if any,
interest and ability to formrelationships with other people.
It's very hard for the person toexpress a full range of
emotions.
If you have Schizoid PersonalityDisorder, you may be seen as
keeping to yourself or rejectingothers.
You may not be interested in, orable to form close friendships
(05:56):
or romantic relationships.
Because you do not tend to showemotion, it may appear that you
do not care about others orwhat's going on around you."
Elena (06:06):
It's actually really interesting that you're doing a
case about that because I'm in aclass that's actually right now
and I'm learning about that.
Sophia (06:13):
Schizoid personality disorder?
Elena (06:14):
Well it's one of the disorders that I'm learning
about, yeah.
Sophia (06:17):
That's so interesting because sometimes I will
randomly go and read them andit's hard to understand what
kind of person that you knowactually fits into this.
But knowing Gary, knowing how hetreated people, at least like
for example that one girl who hecompletely shut down.
He fits right into this.
D (06:38):
When the military honorably discharged Gary, did they also
release him from the medicalhospital?
Or was he still in there?
Elena (06:49):
That's a good question.
Sophia (06:51):
That's a good question.
I'm not sure, but I do know thatGary spent his adulthood in and
out of psychiatric hospitals.
So, potentially he was still ina psychiatric hospital.
D (07:04):
Okay, I was just wondering if the government just decided
goodbye, go out on the streets,you're not part of the military,
and let him be or not.
Sophia (07:13):
He was transferred to the military hospital, and then
he was diagnosed with it, andthen he was discharged.
But after they discharged, I'mnot sure if he had to leave,
because he was in a militaryhospital, or if they sent him to
another hospital, I'm not sure.
But he was in and out ofhospitals quite frequently, so.
D (07:31):
Okay.
Sophia (07:32):
Shortly after his discharge, Gary became a
licensed practical nurse andenrolled at the University of
Pennsylvania, but dropped outafter one semester.
He then worked at a VeteransAdministration Hospital in
Coatesville, but was fired forpoor attendance and rude
behavior towards patients.
In terms of his mental health,like I mentioned, Gary spent his
(07:54):
adulthood in and out ofpsychiatric hospitals and had
attempted suicide at least 13times.
Unfortunately, his familystruggled with their own mental
health too.
In 1970, his mother, who hadbeen diagnosed with bone cancer
and was struggling withalcoholism, took her own life by
drinking mercuric chloride.
(08:15):
His brother, Terry, also spenttime in mental institutions and
attempted suicide multipletimes.
In October 1971, Gary started achurch called The United Church
of the Ministers of God, and itinitially only had five
followers.
Then, in 1975, he opened anaccount under the church's name
(08:35):
with Merrill Lynch.
Elena (08:37):
Wait, just to double check, you said he started his
own church?
Yep.
Okay, interesting.
Sophia (08:44):
I know this is taking an interesting turn.
The initial deposit that he putin his account in Merrill Lynch
was for$1,500 and Garyeventually acquired over
$500,000, which in today's moneyin 2025 would be$2.9 million.
So Gary's doing pretty well.
D (09:04):
Where did he get the money?
I missed that.
Sophia (09:07):
I didn't say, but essentially just by growing the
church is how he managed.
D (09:11):
Oh, I thought maybe he got some loan or something.
Sophia (09:13):
The only thing I have is that he successfully amassed
$550,000 through his brokerageaccount.
He was an investor.
believe he got that throughinvesting.
Later on, somebody who wasfamiliar with his finances
mentioned that he was an astuteinvestor.
So I think it probably came frominvesting.
(09:35):
And as he continued the church,I'm wondering if maybe some of
it came from church donations aswell, but I'm not entirely sure.
So by 1986, the United Church ofthe Ministers of God was doing
very well financially.
So, let's go back a little bit.
I told you that he started thechurch in 1971, and 15 years
(09:58):
later, 1986, it was doing verywell.
But, after he started thechurch, 5 years after, in 1976,
Gary was charged with aggravatedassault and carrying, and
procuring an unlicensed pistolafter shooting at the tenant of
a house he offered for rent.
The bullet ended up grazing theman's face.
(10:20):
Now, when it came to his lovelife and dreams for the future,
Gary wanted to have a bigfamily.
In the 1970s, he dated a womannamed Gail Lincow.
After dating for a while, thetwo gave birth to a son named
Gary Jr.
But shortly after his birth, hewas put into foster care.
The reason he was put intofoster care was because Gail was
(10:41):
mentally disabled.
In the late 1970s, Gary gotinvolved in a relationship with
Anjeanette Davidson.
Anjeanette was illiterate andalso had a mental disability,
just like Gail.
So Anjeanette ended up givingbirth to a daughter named Maxine
on March 16th, 1978.
(11:01):
However, just like his firstchild, Maxine was placed in
foster care in 1978 due toAnjeanette's mental
disabilities.
Okay, around the same time, Garylearned about Anjeanette's
sister, Alberta Davidson, whoalso had a mental disability.
Alberta was in an institutionfor the mentally disabled, and
so in 1978, Gary decided toabduct Alberta from the
(11:26):
institution.
He then went and he signedAlberta out of the Harrisburg
State Hospital.
Elena (11:32):
Oh, I think you're saying he like kidnapped her.
Like he did, but he's like stillsigned her out.
Sophia (11:38):
Yes, because he's, he really wasn't supposed to do
what he did.
I'm just letting you know howthe kidnapping went.
Elena (11:44):
Oh, okay.
Sophia (11:44):
He wasn't supposed to sign her out.
He had no right to do that.
Elena (11:47):
I thought you, it like broke in and snuck in and like.
Sophia (11:50):
That's what I thought at first, but after I right into
it, it wasn't how it happened.
And also, it's also a kidnappingjust based on what he does to
her, right after this.
And so he signed her out on dayleave.
But then he imprisoned her in alocked storage room in his
basement.
To be honest, I'm not sure if hewould have been able to sign her
out if he didn't do thefollowing, but regardless, it
(12:11):
was a kidnapping because of whathappened.
Anyways, after Alberta was foundand returned to the hospital.
An examination revealed that shehad been raped and sodomized and
that she had contractedgonorrhea as well.
Elena (12:26):
Oh my God.
Sophia (12:28):
Yeah, I mean, he's just a beast, honestly.
D (12:32):
Okay.
We're on number three here and Iwas wondering if he was arrested
at this point and put in jail.
He himself has some mentalissues.
He is finding vulnerable womenwho have mental issues.
He gets to the point that he'skidnapping them and raping them.
(12:54):
He has two children who are infoster care.
No one has arrested him.
No one has done anything.
Sophia (13:00):
Well, keep in mind, he technically didn't do anything
wrong with Anjeanette and Gail.
Elena (13:08):
True.
And there's nothing arrestable.
D (13:11):
There is for the last one.
Elena (13:13):
For the last one, of course.
D (13:14):
I mean, he has a record of, you know, doing something that
isn't healthy for the community.
And now he's leveled up tokidnapping and raping.
So are there any consequences to
Sophia (13:31):
Yes, well for Alberta, because I'm assuming her mental
disability was more challengedthan her sister's.
I'm not entirely sure.
She was in the institution, andthe fact that he ended up doing
all these things to her and itwas a rape, I'm assuming there
was no way she could consent toanything.
Gary was arrested and chargedand convicted of kidnapping,
(13:52):
rape, unlawful restraint, falseimprisonment, involuntary
deviant sexual intercourse, andinterfering with the custody of
a committed person.
The original sentence wasoverturned on appeal and Gary
spent three years of hisincarceration to being released
in April of 1983 under thesupervision of a state
(14:15):
sanctioned mental healthprogram.
So, really, seems like he wasn'tsupposed to take her out
anyways, regardless.
And,,as we'll find out, Albertahad not been mentally fit to
take the stand and because ofthat Gary got away with a
lighter conviction.
After his incarceration, Gary'sobsession with having a family
(14:38):
only seemed to have gottenstronger.
When Gary was released, he triedto locate Anjeanette but was
unable to do so.
So he resorted to a matrimonialservice to find another partner
for himself.
In 1983, he met a Filipino womannamed Betty Disto.
Betty was in the Philippines.
So for a couple of years, theysent each other letters to get
(14:59):
to know each other before Garyeventually proposed to her.
Then Betty came to the UnitedStates in September 1985, and
they tied the knot in Marylandin the following month on
October 3rd and were legallymarried.
However, this marriage did notlast long because Betty ended up
catching Gary in bed with threeother women.
Elena (15:20):
Wait, like three all at once?
Sophia (15:22):
Yes, three all at once.
Elena (15:24):
Oh my God.
Sophia (15:25):
And it gets even worse because supposedly he would even
force Betty to be an onlookerwhile he had sex with these
other women right in front ofher.
Elena (15:33):
Ew.
Yeah.
He's just a man
Sophia (15:36):
So gross.
Betty would also accuse Gary ofraping and assaulting her.
And so with the help of theFilipino community in
Philadelphia, she was able toleave Gary in January 1986.
Gary was eventually arrestedagain and charged with assault,
indecent assault, spousal rape,and involuntary deviant sexual
(15:57):
intercourse.
Then in 1987, and by that time,Gary and Betty had already
gotten a divorce, Bettyrequested child support payments
from Gary, which is how helearned that on September 15,
1986, she had given birth to ason, whom she named Jesse John
Disto.
So Betty left Gary in January1986 and later on that year he
(16:22):
would start committing thecrimes he is most notorious for
to this day.
D (16:27):
So these crimes are more notorious than what he's already
committed?
Sophia (16:31):
Yes, much much more.
In my opinion, he's one of theworst people we've done.
So let's get into it.
This next part is really brutaland disgusting, so just take
care of yourselves.
On November 25th, 1986, whenGary was 43 years old, he
abducted a 25 year old womannamed Josefina Rivera.
(16:54):
Josefina had gotten into drugsat an early age and by 25 she
was working as a prostitute indowntown Philadelphia to
maintain her habit.
Josefina was picked up by Garywho convinced her to go back to
his house.
After they had sex, he chokedher from behind, put her in
handcuffs, and led herdownstairs naked to his run down
(17:15):
basement cellar.
And she was tied to a radiatorin what was described as a cold,
dark hole in the ground.
The first few days of hercaptivity, Gary beat her, and
Josefina thought eventually hewould kill her.
But after those first few days,Gary told her the real reason he
brought her down there.
He said, I want to have kids.
(17:35):
Lots of them.
I got kids already, but thestate keeps taking them off of
me.
Well, I got a way now of havingkids, so nobody can take them
away.
You're just the start.
You gonna have my babies downhere.
But not just you.
I want to get 10 girls down hereso you can all have my kids.
Elena (17:52):
Oh my God.
Sophia (17:55):
That was Josefina's reaction too.
Elena (17:57):
There's just so much to unpack there.
First of all, he's doing all ofthis just because he wants
babies?
Sophia (18:03):
Apparently.
D (18:04):
The man is unbalanced.
Elena (18:06):
Delusional more likely.
It's crazy.
Sophia (18:10):
And that's what Josefina thought because in that moment,
she thought his plan was sodelusional that there was no way
Gary would actually followthrough.
She actually said,"At first Iwas relieved.
Until then, I thought he wantedme dead.
But hearing his plan was justunbelievable."
D (18:28):
Let's throw the key away.
Sophia (18:30):
Just, just hold on a little bit.
Elena (18:32):
Mom's about ready to swallow this key.
Sophia (18:35):
Herself, yeah!
Elena (18:37):
She's like, I'll take it.
Sophia (18:40):
But unfortunately, Gary would remain true to his plan.
And by January 1987, he hadkidnapped another poor woman.
He kidnapped Sandra Lindsay.
age 24 on December 3rd, 1986.
Lisa Thomas, age 19, on December23rd, 1986.
(19:00):
Deborah Dudley, age 23, onJanuary 2nd, 1987.
And Jacqueline Askins, age 18,on January 18th, 1987.
He held all these women captivein a pit in the basement of his
house at 3520 North MarshallStreet in North Philadelphia.
The captives were starved,raped, beaten, and tortured.
(19:24):
Now, I want to say that Gary waswhite, but all of his kidnapping
and murder victims were black.
D (19:32):
If he wants them to have babies, why is he starving them?
Elena (19:36):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point.
D (19:37):
That does make no sense to me.
I mean, women who are starvingcannot get pregnant, because
they don't have enough energy.
Their body's not gonna keep achild.
So, I'm trying to understand hislogic.
Elena (19:47):
I mean, if women get too stressed, they'll stop having
their period because theirbody's like We can't have a
child right now.
Sophia (19:54):
That's a good question.
And honestly, I think it'sbecause of his unbalanced
mindset.
I don't think he's being smartabout it as you will see later
when an unfortunate eventhappens.
His response is not onlydisgusting, but I think it just
goes to show you how mentallyimbalanced he is and not
thinking about this in a logicalway if he actually wants to have
(20:15):
more babies.
Elena (20:16):
Even if a woman does get pregnant It would be unlikely
that they'd be able to carry it,the child to term, and even if
that does happen, the birthwithout medical equipment and
all this stuff, it just, I can'timagine it would be successful.
Sophia (20:30):
So the reason I mentioned that Gary's white, but
his murder victims are black isbecause Gary's lawyer, when we
get to that point, CharlesPeruto, would eventually say
that Gary was trying to enslave10 girls to have a baby with all
of them and he was going tocreate a perfect race.
He believed that the raceseventually hundreds of years
(20:52):
from now would all be mixed andthere would be only And that's
when we would find peace.
He believed white people shouldmix with black people and vice
versa, so we could get closer toa perfect race.
Elena (21:06):
This is their defense?
Sophia (21:09):
I don't know if it's his defense.
Honestly, I'm not really surehow people would take this in a
trial.
I don't know, maybe it is hisdefense.
It doesn't defend him kidnappingthese women against their will.
Elena (21:24):
I can't imagine them being like, well, we enslaved
them and people in the jury belike, you know what?
I can't see it.
Cuz didn't he, in the quote,didn't he say, like, he enslaved
them?
Sophia (21:35):
Yes, he did mention that he was enslaving them to create
a perfect race.
But, of course, it's justproblematic.
D (21:40):
I just don't understand why the attorney thought this was
something he needed to informus.
Because Gary is a nobody and noone asked Gary to create the
perfect race.
So I guess I'm missing the pointof an attorney making a comment
that makes no sense to me.
Elena (22:00):
Yeah, Gary, no one asked you.
Sophia (22:02):
That's a perfect point.
D (22:03):
Well, Gary didn't say it, his attorney said it.
Sophia (22:05):
Here's the thing.
I think aspiring for a perfectrace.
It's problematic as a whole.
D (22:11):
Well, it appears to me that the attorney didn't know what to
say and came up with acompletely stupid idea and made
a comment on it.
If you want to get up and saythat to the media, what are you
really saying?
Sophia (22:27):
I think, and what I'm about to tell you is, I think
one of the reasons he includedthis is because he's trying to
make Gary seem insane and unfitfor prison, so he can, be sent
to, a mental institution or justget off on a lesser charge.
So, this would actually,potentially help his defense,
depending on how you want toargue it.
Elena (22:48):
It seems like he knew what he was doing was wrong,
though.
I mean, he's hiding them.
Sophia (22:54):
It's a good point.
D (22:55):
Oh wow, we all want Gary to be the father of the perfect
race.
Sophia (23:03):
Okay, let's get back into it.
One of the woman, 24 year oldSandra Lindsay, unfortunately
ended up dying on February 7th,1987 from a combination of
starvation, torture, and anuntreated fever after being
suspended to the ceiling for twodays by her wrists.
(23:24):
Gary's reaction to her deathshows just how disgusting he is.
Thinking she was pregnant, whenhe realized she was dead, he
said, Oh man, what a waste of ababy.
Elena (23:36):
Wow, not even dressing the woman that just died.
So he just sees them as objects,basically, like sex objects.
Sophia (23:41):
Yes, in order to get his children.
And it kind of goes to what yousaid is why, mom, earlier, is
why is he starving them if hewants them to have babies?
It really doesn't make anysense.
He's illogical.
He's mentally imbalanced.
So I just don't think he's beinga logical individual at this
point.
Gary dismembered her body buthad problems dealing with the
(24:02):
arms and legs, so he put them ina freezer and labeled them dog
food.
He cooked her ribs in an ovenand boiled her head in a pot on
the stove.
Police officers came to hishouse after his neighbors
complained that a nauseatingodor was emanating from his
residence.
They ended up leaving thoughbecause Gary said that he had
been cooking a roast and hadfallen asleep and burnt it and
(24:25):
they just believed him.
Elena (24:27):
It's kind of sounding like Dahmer.
Sophia (24:29):
It's reminding me of Omaima.
Elena (24:30):
Oh yeah, she did that too.
Sophia (24:31):
Yeah, she did this whole cookin up thing.
Allegedly, Gary would end upgrinding Sandra's flesh, mixing
it with dog food, and feeding itto his other victims.
However, his defense attorney,Chuck Peruto, said that upon
examination of a cusinart andother tools in his kitchen, they
found no evidence of this.
Chuck said that Gary made up thestory to support the insanity
(24:54):
defense, and that Gary startedthe rumor of cannibalism in
public, and that there was noevidence of anyone eating human
flesh.
However, Josefina said that theythought they ate Sandra because
they were forced to eatsomething that she said,"There
was this horrible, horriblesmell I will never forget in my
life.
It was bad.
(25:14):
This odor was consuming." So,Josefina and the other woman
think that they did eat Sandrajust because they were given
some kind of meat that smelledabsolutely horrid.
Elena (25:25):
Interesting.
What do you think?
Do you think that it was her?
Sophia (25:30):
I personally believe Josefina and the woman.
I think if they're being fedtheir normal food and then all
of a sudden, after Sandra diesand he's been processing her
body parts.
Disgustingly, and then they'regiven this piece of meat that
smells unusually bad.
Don't forget he burnt it too.
So I'm gonna have to believethem.
D (25:49):
I need the key and I'm gonna throw it in the deepest parts of
the ocean.
This is the most disgustingthing I've heard.
Elena (25:55):
That's just crazy.
To do that to the women.
They're going through thistrauma together, so after they
saw one of the girls die and ontop of that they're being forced
to possibly the other one isjust is just trauma beyond
trauma.
Sophia (26:12):
And to think that they could be next.
Elena (26:14):
Yeah.
Did they ever find her body?
Sophia (26:17):
Yes.
D (26:18):
First of all, if he was emotionally abused as a child,
what he's doing is beyondnormal.
People have been emotionallyabused and yeah, they become
criminals.
They do things, but.
It's just, this sounds really,really bad.
Furthermore, I don't know thismental abuse thing, this is
(26:39):
worse than mental abuse.
I mean, this is just severe.
Elena (26:43):
Psychological torture.
D (26:44):
Yeah, this is beyond him having mental Oh, there's
there's something else going onhere
Elena (26:50):
In addition to just physically torturing them He's
psychologically torturing themto just with this idea of like
giving them to eat right.
D (27:00):
The other woman.
This is.
Elena (27:02):
Unbelievable.
D (27:03):
If he's going to sit there and claim that he was
emotionally abused as a child, Idon't see the severity of his
childhood.
Unless, they don't all knoweverything that happened to him.
I mean, this is like more thanbeing having mental illness.
There's something else going onhere.
Sophia (27:20):
Honestly, who knows what the heck happened.
Who knows if he was moregenetically predispositioned to
become like this if he had somenegative environments in his
childhood or who knows whatreally happened.
Later on in this case, I willshare a quote that his niece
said.
But she essentially says thatthe whole family was screwed up
and really weird.
(27:41):
And he did suffer physical abusetoo.
But who even knows to the extentof it what happened.
And don't forget, Gary was ahuge bedwetter as a child.
And sometimes that can meanthere's some sexual abuse going
on.
And not to say that becausesomebody experiences sexual
abuse as a child, that they'regoing to turn up like Gary, but
if he has a certain geneticpredisposition and then also
(28:03):
experiences these effects in hischildhood, it could set him on
the wrong course for life.
D (28:07):
Does bedwetting also represent sexual abuse or just
having an emotional, or physicalabuse in the home too?
Sophia (28:14):
Good question.
I'm not entirely sure.
I've heard it stated more assexual
Elena (28:21):
I do know that there is some research that suggests that
bedwetting can also be, like,any sort of disturbing event
that they've had in their life.
So it could be not just sexualabuse, it can be other abuse or
just trauma or any sort of badthing that happened could
contribute to bedwetting.
D (28:40):
Well, his whole childhood had trauma.
So that makes sense for him.
Sophia (28:45):
And then if he's being punished for the bedwetting,
it's just a vicious cycle.
Elena (28:48):
Right.
Sophia (28:51):
I do want to say that Gary's supposed best friend,
Cyril Brown.
Witnessed Sandra's death in thebasement and saw Gary
dismembering her body.
If he was in the basement, I'mgoing to assume there's no way
he could have missed the otherwoman being held captive there.
Yeah.
D (29:08):
Was he also going to be a father of the human race?
The perfect human race?
Sophia (29:13):
They never mentioned anything about being sexually
abused by him, but who knows?
What, what was going on in hismind and Gary's mind.
Elena (29:22):
Still, he saw a murder and I'm assuming he didn't do
anything.
Sophia (29:25):
And he saw other women who were being captive and
didn't try and help them.
Elena (29:29):
Exactly.
D (29:30):
Isn't he a culprit then?
Sophia (29:32):
He is because not only did he not say anything about
his friend murdering anddismembering a person, but he
also like I said, did not getany help for these women, which
is just wrong.
It's disappointing on so manylevels, but if he had gotten
help for the captive, at leastone of their lives would have
been saved as we'll soon see.
D (29:49):
His friend also have mental issues?
Sophia (29:53):
It's never mentioned or talked about, but in my opinion,
there is something wrong withyou if you see people being held
against their will and you don'tdo something about it.
Elena (30:01):
Does he have a criminal record that you know of?
Sophia (30:04):
They didn't mention it in the articles that I found.
Did not mention anything aboutit.
Elena (30:08):
Okay.
Sophia (30:09):
Gary also used electric shock as a form of torture.
Gary ordered Josefina and one ofthe other three to fill a hole
in the basement with water.
He then forced Lisa, Deborah,and Jacqueline bound in chains
into a pit.
Gary then made Josefina help himapply electric current from a
(30:29):
stripped extension cord to thewoman's chains.
23 year old Deborah Dudley washorrifically electrocuted to
death on March 19, 1987, andGary disposed of her body in the
New Jersey Pine Barrens.
Gary also wrapped duct tapearound the mouths of the victims
and stabbed them in their earswith a screwdriver, which is
(30:51):
just so horrific and awful.
I can't imagine the pain theyhad to endure.
D (30:56):
It sounds more like he wanted these women for torture than for
the human race.
Sophia (31:01):
Yeah.
D (31:02):
Idea.
Sophia (31:04):
It surely does, because he is not keeping the mothers
healthy safe if he wants to behaving healthy babies.
On March 23, 1987, Gary andJosefina abducted 24 year old
Agnes Adams.
The next day, Josefina convincedGary to let her go, temporarily,
so she could visit her family.
(31:26):
But Josefina has other plans.
Josefina said she realized thatthe reason Gary wanted all those
babies was because he waslonely.
So she decided to use thisknowledge to her advantage and
pretend that she was on hisside, which is how he eventually
trusted her enough to let herleave.
So Gary drove Josefina to a gasstation and said that he would
wait for her there.
(31:47):
She walked to her boyfriend'shouse.
She initially wanted to confrontGary, but then decided to call
the police instead.
The responding officers, notingchafing from chains on her legs,
went to the gas station anddetained Gary.
At this point, Gary's bestfriend, Cyril Brown, was also
arrested.
Cyril was released on$50,000bail and an agreement that he
(32:09):
would testify against Gary.
Cyril admitted that he hadwitnessed Sandra's death in the
basement and that he hadwitnessed Gary dismembering her
body.
Shortly after his arrest inApril 1987, Gary attempted to
hang himself in his jail cell.
So, at this point, Josefina,Lisa, Jacqueline, and Agnes are
(32:29):
the remaining victims who endedup surviving.
D (32:34):
How long did he have these women captive for now at the
moment?
Sophia (32:37):
So, five months.
because he abducted Josefina inNovember of 1986 and in April of
1987 he was arrested.
Gary would refuse to take anyresponsibility and would create
all sorts of defenses in orderto try and get out of facing any
sort of punishment.
(32:57):
At his arraignment, Gary claimedthat the woman were already in
the house when he moved in,which is just ridiculous.
Elena (33:05):
I know where I know this story from.
Sophia (33:07):
Where?
Elena (33:08):
If any of you guys have not watched this, I highly,
highly, highly recommend you do.
It's called I Survived a SerialKiller.
I think I told you guys aboutthis a while ago.
When I was watching it because Iwas like, Oh my God, it's such
an interesting story.
Sophia (33:23):
I can't believe there's that many men and women, who've
survived serial killers thatthey can make a show about that.
Elena (33:27):
Oh yeah, there's, sixteen episodes.
There's one season and sixteenepisodes.
She was the last episode.
And it's Josefina Rivera comeson and she talks about it and
that's where I knew it from.
That's where I was like, I don'tremember because I thought it
was this show but I wanted todouble check.
And yes, so if you haven'twatched it, I Survived a Serial
Killer, I think it's on Hulu.
(33:48):
And crazy hearing their storiesand how they've survived.
And it's men and women, theyboth talk about all these.
It's incredible.
Because it's really sad, but youstill get to have a little bit
of hope that some peoplesurvived and that just to tell
their story and it's reallybrave.
Sophia (34:05):
Definitely have to look into that.
Elena (34:06):
Yeah, I'm shocked you didn't see the episode.
Sophia (34:11):
I just think it's crazy that he would say that these
women were already in the housewhen he moved in.
And also you're going to tell meyou show up to a house and find
women chained in the basementand you think that you
supposedly keeping them there inthat condition is supposed to
help your defense.
Again, Chuck Peruto has a great,quite an interesting defense
(34:31):
strategy, I will say.
But he has not been given thebest.
At trial, like I mentioned, Garywas defended by Charles Peruto
Jr., who attempted to prove thatGary was legally insane.
Gary's insanity claim wassuccessfully rebuted by the
prosecution, led by CharlesGallagher III.
The fact that Gary hadsuccessfully amassed
approximately$550,000 throughhis brokerage account was used
(34:55):
to prove that he was an astuteinvestor and therefore not
insane.
Testimony which was given by hisMerrill Lynch financial advisor,
Robert Kirkpatrick, was alsoused to prove Gary's mental
competence.
Robert Kirkpatrick called Garyan astute investor who knew
exactly what he was doing.
On July 1st, 1988, Gary wasconvicted of two counts of first
(35:19):
degree murder, six counts ofkidnapping, five counts of rape,
four counts of aggravatedassault, and two counts of
involuntary deviant sexualintercourse.
At his trial, Gary refused toever admit guilt, stating, I say
real or phony, they can executeme because I am innocent and I
can prove it.
(35:39):
That is the end of capitalpunishment in this state.
When you execute an innocentman, knowingly execute an
innocent man, you know therewill be no more capital
punishment in this state andpossibly anywhere else in this
country.
And you know I didn't kill themtwo, woman.
Go ahead and execute me.
Yes, I want you to execute aninnocent man so there will be no
more capital punishment".
(36:02):
clearly, Gary was just a verysick, twisted, and disturbed
man.
He was sentenced to death andincarcerated at the State
Correctional Institution atPittsburgh.
In January 1989, he attemptedsuicide with an overdose of
prescribed Thorazine, butfailed.
In 1997, Gary's daughter, MaxineDavidson White, and his ex-wife,
(36:26):
Betty, filed a suit in federalcourt in the Eastern District of
Pennsylvania in which theyrequested a stay of execution on
the basis that Gary was notcompetent enough to be executed.
After two years of legalproceedings in various courts on
July 3rd, 1999, the U.
S.
District Court for the EasternDistrict of Pennsylvania issued
(36:47):
its final ruling clearing theway for Gary's execution.
Governor of Pennsylvania TomRidge, who had campaigned and
pledged to accelerate thesigning of death warrants, which
were delayed under formerGovernor Bob Casey Sr., said
Gary's execution was justified.
Gary's daughter, Maxine, spentan hour with him before his
execution, but left before hewas actually executed.
(37:10):
Maxine's attorney, KathySwedlow, told the Post Gazette
that Maxine was devastated.
She said,"The state has executedan extremely mentally ill and
psychotic man." I just want tosay that personally, Gary was
definitely mentally ill.
He was diagnosed withpersonality disorder and I'm
sure and there is definitelymore going on because he was
(37:33):
horrifically torturing all thesewomen But I'm not sure he was
psychotic because at the veryleast he wasn't diagnosed with
psychosis.
So I don't know if he waspsychotic or not, but he wasn't
diagnosed and he definitelyseemed to be aware of what he
was doing.
So at the end of the day, Ithink he knew what he was doing
was wrong and was aware of hisactions, and it never seemed as
(37:54):
though he felt any sorrow orguilt or empathy at all for what
he did and for his victims, orat least he never showed it.
Elena (38:03):
I mean, yeah, he was still pretending that he was
innocent till his death.
Sophia (38:08):
He was trying to make it that he was innocent.
He tried all sorts of defenses.
Elena (38:12):
He knew it, but I don't know, it's just crazy that
people with so much evidencewould still be like, I didn't do
it.
Sophia (38:18):
Gary's last meal was two slices of cheese pizza and black
coffee.
He was executed by lethalinjection on July 6, 1999 at the
State Correctional Institution,Rockview, in, Bellefonte,
Pennsylvania and his body wascremated.
He was the last person executedby the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania and remains thethird of only three people
(38:42):
executed there since theresumption of the death penalty.
The other two were KeithZettlemoyer in May 1995 and Leon
Moser in August 1995.
Keith Zettlemoyer was on deathrow for murdering his friend who
was set to testify against himin a burglary case, and Leon was
(39:02):
on death row for killing hisex-wife and his two daughters.
Jacqueline attended Gary'sexecution, as did Sandra's
family and Deborah's family.
Sandra's said,"I went to theexecution, but it was too calm
and serene for me.
I'm thinking execution issomething like, turn around and
let me shoot you.
Instead, they just stuck aneedle in his arm.
(39:23):
He never looked at us, neveracknowledged us, never said he
was sorry.
He didn't say anything.
He didn't even look in ourdirection." Which, I'm just
saddened to hear that it wasn'twhat Sandra's sister hoped it
would be.
But Sandra's sister wasn't theonly one dissatisfied with the
execution.
Jacqueline said,"I watched himdie.
It didn't bring nosatisfaction." Josefina chose
(39:46):
not to attend and said, It wouldhave been better for him to sit
in a 4x4 cell.
Gary's brutal crimes, for betteror worse, supposedly inspired
the character of serial killerBuffalo Bill in the movie, The
Silence of the Lambs.
When it comes to Gary's familytoday, Maxine has managed to
stay under the radar.
She once attended TempleUniversity, but we haven't heard
(40:09):
anything about her since.
Gary's niece, Shannon Heidnik,which I told you about before,
this is what she said about thefamily,"The whole family was
screwed up and weird.
My mom told me how their dadbeat Gary real bad with a toy
wooden airplane, because he peedhis pants.
His dad was an alcoholic and hismom took poison.
(40:29):
They found her in the basement.
She was tired of the abuse.
They were really sick parentsand they gave their kids some
serious problems.
Gary and my dad left Ohio atsome point, and I'm not exactly
sure how we wound up inPennsylvania".
While Gary is no longer here,His victims are still left to
deal with the repercussions ofwhat happened to them that
night.
Reflecting on all of thisdecades later, Josefina, the
(40:51):
first victim he took, said, Iwish I hadn't gone out that
night.
I wanted to get clean for thesake of my kids.
I had three kids, and though thetwo youngest were in temporary
foster care, the judge said if Istayed off drugs, I may get them
back.
Josefina says that today, evenseeing certain objects like a
screwdriver can trigger her fromher captivity and send her into
(41:13):
a depressive episode that lastsa month.
I'm not surprised, just knowinghow a screwdriver was used for
them before.
After Gary's arrest, Josefinastill had an ordeal to go
through because some people,including the press and some of
the survivors, thought she wasan accomplice and they wanted
her charged.
Because Josefina held theextension cord with Gary and was
(41:36):
part of electrocuting the otherwoman, where Debra ultimately
died, the other victims assumedshe was in on it and are really
bothered by what she did.
They actually wanted to havecharges pressed against her.
I can see why people, especiallythe surviving woman, are
disturbed by what happened andultimately, the survivors are
the ones who can only say theywere there and experienced it
(41:58):
first hand.
But I do want to say thatJosefina was a victim too, and I
personally believe she was justtrying to do whatever it took to
survive.
And ultimately, her pretendingto be an accomplice to Gary is
what allowed him to trust herinto giving her the freedom to
walk off.
Which is ultimately what alsoended up saving her and the
other woman.
(42:18):
And we'll get into it later, butone of the survivors ends up
acknowledging this later on anddoes say that Josefina doing
what she did is what set themfree.
And if we remember Josefina wasthere for five months.
So considering some people havepeople locked up for years,
which is just so sad to thinkabout.
It seems like Josephine, whenshe had the opportunity, took it
(42:40):
to escape and help the others.
D (42:43):
These women were missing for five months?
Were the police not looking forthem?
Sophia (42:48):
We don't forget they were leading what they would
deem as high risk lifestyles,because I think most of them, if
not all of them are prostitutes.
So, you know, when unfortunatelythey went missing.
I don't know for sure, but Iknow lots of times police don't
give prostitutes the same timeand value as they would give
other victims.
D (43:09):
The police did not do their due diligence with searching for
these women, right?
Sophia (43:14):
There's no mention of the police knew these women were
missing or they didn't care oranything.
There was no mention.
I'm, not even really sure thepolice knew these women were
missing or had made anyconnections.
D (43:27):
It just doesn't sound right, because it's what six women.
Someone would have noticed.
I know they were leading livesthat maybe it's difficult to
trace or know what they'redoing.
But I mean the same thinghappened in New York where all
these women were missing andeventually they finally put it
together.
But it just sounds like no onewas looking for them.
Sophia (43:50):
I don't know.
Nothing about that is evenmentioned, and it could be no
one was looking for them.
Josefina had to give up her twoyoungest children for adoption
when she came out of the cellar,because she wasn't capable of
caring for them.
And she did pick up her drughabit again for a number of
years to cope with the ongoingtrauma.
She also returned to sex workfor a year after the trial but
(44:12):
eventually gave up bothprostitution and drugs for good.
She has since worked differentjobs as a waitress, security
guard, and daycare worker.
She said,"My time in the cellarchanged me forever.
I kept trying to go back to theperson I was before Heidnik, but
it simply wasn't possible."Josefina finally found the right
(44:34):
therapy around 2010 and she wasreunited with the children she
gave up for adoption.
She is now a grandmother of sixand close to all her family and
she has found peace at lastliving near the sea in Atlantic
City and collecting sea glass.
She even married her long termpartner, Chris Lyle.
Josefina is still in counselingand experiences panic attacks,
(44:55):
but they're less frequent.
However, she still has to turnoff the TV if she sees chains or
handcuffs.
Ultimately, though, Josefina isproud of her strength and how
far she's come and battling hertrauma.
Some final words from Josefina Iwant to share are,"You don't
ever totally get over anexperience like mine.
(45:16):
You just have to learn to livewith it.
It is a constant struggle todeal with normal life, but being
by the sea has helped.
There, I am free and safe.
For a long time, I was hauntedby Gary, by the woman who died
next to me, but not any longer.
I hope I can inspire othervictims to feel positive about
the future." All the survivorsreceived a$30,000 settlement.
(45:40):
Lisa and Agnes were never reallyable to recover from the
experience and have dealt withmental health issues and
addiction in the years since.
Jacqueline still lives inPhiladelphia and cleans houses.
She's close with her two sonswho are now adults.
and is on medication to dealwith her anxiety and trauma.
She does suffer from intenseflashbacks and still can't enter
(46:01):
any basement.
Jacqueline and Josefina did endup having a meeting that was
shown in Monster Preacher and itwas a tense and emotional
reunion.
Jacqueline said to Josefina,"Iain't gonna lie.
I did have some hate for you.
I blamed you for a lot of stuffthat happened down there." But
(46:22):
after Josefina explained herposition, Jacqueline was able to
understand her better.
Jacqueline said to her,"I thinkthe plan you did was the best
one.
We're here." The two parted on ahopeful note, believing the
reunion was essential for bothof them to heal.
Elena (46:41):
There's a lot to unpack there.
I mean, it's horrible thatthat's how people felt towards
Josefina, but I'm just glad thatpeople realized that she was a
victim too.
And that it was the only waythat they were ever going to get
out because it's, it's clearthat no one was really looking
for them.
Sophia (47:00):
I can totally understand why people, especially
Jacqueline, would be disturbedby Josefina a little bit.
D (47:08):
I'm surprised when these women were finally found, it
doesn't sound like there was anyhelp or assistance set up for
them.
I mean, not only do they needtherapists, they need medical
assistance, they need assistancefor jobs.
I mean, they've been out, theirwhole life has changed.
It's just kind of like they weresaved and there they go.
(47:30):
Bye.
Sophia (47:31):
That's a really good point.
There should be some sort ofsystem where if somebody goes
through something traumatic likethis, like a kidnapping, that
they are given the resources toget back on their feet.
D (47:43):
I mean, they were given $30,000.
That's nothing.
You can't even pay for therapyat$30,000.
So I just don't understand.
I mean, they were just kind oflike, Oh, we saved you.
Goodbye.
Go back to your normal life.
There's, no such thing as normallife after this.
Sophia (47:58):
I wonder if there's a foundation that helps victims
who have survived these sorts ofsituations.
I'm hoping and assuming thereis, but I'm not sure, and I'm
not sure to the extent that itcan help all the survivors.
Elena (48:12):
Maybe now, but back then, probably not.
Sophia (48:16):
You're right.
A lot has changed over theyears.
Elena (48:19):
I'm just glad that they got out.
I know they won't ever be thesame, but at least they're not
there.
Sophia (48:25):
True.
I'm really sad that they had togo through all of this and have
to live with the traumas of it.
But I'm happy that, at leastsome of them were able to get
out.
It's really sad for Sandra andDeborah's family, though, that
they lost their loved ones, andnot only lost them, but lost
them in horrific ways.
Elena (48:44):
It's just really unfortunate.
Sophia (48:47):
Well, this is the ending.
I want to thank you forlistening to us this week.
We love our listeners andbecause of you, we do this
podcast, your help andengagement really helps the
podcast grow.
So if you enjoyed this episode,please text it to a friend and
family member to give ourpodcast a listen.
Until next time, make sure youstay on the Eerie Side.
(49:08):
Bye! Bye! Bye guys! Be safe!
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