January 5, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, we explore the vital role of special needs trusts in elder law, discussing their importance for families and how attorneys can incorporate them into their practices. With practical marketing strategies and insights, listeners learn how to serve this unique community effectively.
• Understanding the significance of special needs trusts
• Navigating client needs in the realm of elder law
• The impact of financial advisors and CPAs on trust planning
• Effective marketing strategies for reaching families in need
• The advantages of creating dedicated special needs trusts
• Legal considerations regarding congressional changes and trust regulations
• Strengthening professional relationships within the community
If you are interested in coaching, please visit www.theelderlawcoach.com for more information.
Check out our new website www.TheElderLawCoach.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thank you.
Specialized experience, Whetheryou're an established attorney
looking to refine your expertiseor an emerging lawyer seeking a
successful foray into elder law, this is your masterclass.
Now let's get started with theluminary in the field.
Here's Todd Whatley.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's right.
This is the Elder Law Coach andI am Todd Whatley and, as
always, I am very thankful foryou downloading, listening and
subscribing.
I'm getting pretty, you knowwell over a hundred downloads as
soon as I put this up, whichmeans people have downloaded
this, and I appreciate that.
And if you haven't done that, Iwould encourage you to do that.
(01:01):
I am on a mission to do apodcast a week throughout 2025.
And so there will be a lot ofcontent coming through here and
I encourage you to subscribe,all right.
So let's get right to it.
Today's topic is a practice areathat, if you're not doing this,
I highly encourage you to do it, and I want to talk about why.
(01:22):
And that practice area isspecial needs trust, or
supplemental needs trust.
If you're not familiar withthat, let's talk about that very
quickly, just so you can knowwhat it is, and then I'll
explain why it's so important.
And this is one of those areasthat I'm very passionate about
because, if you know my historypassionate about because, if you
(01:43):
know my history, I started outas a physical therapist.
I had a have a master's degreein physical therapy, did that
for 13 years until I got boredand went to law school and me
being bored with that hadnothing to do with the clients.
I love the clients, love doingit.
It's just I just wanted to dosomething different.
(02:05):
But special needs trust orspecial needs people are very
special people.
This population is very nearand dear to the family's hearts,
to friends' hearts, to a lot ofpeople, and they want to make
sure that these people are takencare of because, by definition,
(02:27):
they typically cannot take careof themselves and they need a
lot of you know, sometimes a lotof help, sometimes not much
help, but typically with someonewho will be a client for this
type of work.
This person doesn't work andprobably never will work and is
(02:49):
on Medicaid for benefits,typically medical help,
financial help and they need tokeep these benefits.
But people family members wantto leave them money, want to
help them the best way they can,but helping them financially
will cause them to lose theirMedicaid benefits unless
(03:10):
something special is done andthat something special is a
special needs trust.
This population is veryclose-knit.
The families of special needspeople are very close.
They talk, they communicate andif you can get in with this
(03:32):
group and do very good work forthem, serve them, work with them
.
They will tell other people andyour business will thrive
tremendously from working withthis population.
Okay, it's a fun group.
Okay, these families are verypassionate.
The special needs client issometimes very interesting, very
(03:58):
fun to work with and everyoneappreciates what you do.
Okay, and everyone appreciateswhat you do Okay, and I think,
as the population is aging andif you do elder law, this is an
area that you need to befamiliar with, because a lot of
times, families come in for justgeneral estate planning, and
(04:20):
when the issue of a specialneeds child or grandchild comes
up, this is the families want toprotect this child.
(04:45):
They want to leave them money,knowing that this child never
will be able to work, or, ifthey do work, it's very minimal
and they need money to supportthemselves, because Medicaid
doesn't do everything or it's avery minimal amount of financial
support for this child.
(05:06):
But they want to do more.
But giving them money willcause them to lose their
benefits, and so a special needstrust has specific language in
it that allows the person tostill get Medicaid but also
benefit from money.
Okay, families are are seekingout this help.
They, um, they either knowabout it and want someone to do
(05:31):
this for them, or they don'tknow about it, but they do know
that.
Um, they have heard ofsolutions, they know there are
problems with leaving a childmoney and they are seeking out
legal assistance to do this andyou are very specifically
(05:52):
positioned to provide thisbenefit.
I will tell you financialplanners, cpas they are being
inundated with estate planningsolutions.
Okay, software, hey, get yourclient to do this with you
rather than with an attorney.
Those solutions are very basic,very generic, but the general
(06:18):
public just thinks, okay, atrust is a trust is a trust.
And when they have their estateplanning person not their
estate when they have theirfinancial person, their CPA
financial advisor also offerthem an estate plan.
They're like oh sure, why not?
But I will tell you, this is anarea that is very specific
(06:39):
special needs planning.
These families of special needs, people don't mess around, they
don't want to mess this up andI would hope that a CPA
financial advisor who's offeringthis estate planning software
work would come to their sensesand realize, okay, if we're
(07:00):
doing, if this family is askingfor something to help a child
who is on public benefits, wedon't want to mess this up.
And that software willdefinitely mess them up, and
surely they will seek the adviceof an attorney to do this, and
that's where you come in.
You present yourself as theexpert on this, with your
(07:23):
knowledge of Medicaid and estateplanning.
It combines those to make surethis is done absolutely correct.
And there are a lot of potholeshere.
There are a lot of areas thatcan cause problems, and I would
hope that a financial advisor,cpa, would come to their senses
and say we need to seek out theadvice of an expert and you can
(07:49):
become that expert in this area,okay, and so I want to talk
about you know there, there maybe someone in your community who
is doing this, who is wellknown for this.
That's fine, you can do it too.
Okay, competition's always goodfor people being out there, as
another alternative is is good.
(08:10):
It's good for that person toknow someone is out there
competing with them.
It'll keep them on their toes,make sure that they're doing a
good job, but it will also forceyou to do a good job or a
better job at this.
And communicating and providingthis service to people Okay,
marketing to this group is kindof easy, because these groups
(08:35):
tend to congregate at thedaycare that is special for
these people at.
You know there are events, thereare things that are
specifically for this population, and if you can get in there,
if you can talk to the directorat a special needs daycare or a
(08:57):
adult facility that works withthis population, if you can get
in with them and say, hey, I'man attorney, I do special needs
work and what can I do for you,how can I get on your list of
referrals?
Can I do a lunch and learn?
Can I come out after hours andhave families come in and speak?
(09:20):
What can I do and speak?
What can I do?
How can I get in front of thesepeople to get them the services
that they are looking for?
It's not that you're sellingthem anything.
They are looking for this andyou are able to provide that and
it's a it's a very closecommunity.
Okay, so if you choose to dothis and I encourage that you do
(09:44):
get out there to thesefacilities, talk to them and get
in front of them and see whatyou can do to to make their life
easier, and they will thenrefer folks to you.
Another great marketing umlocation or, you know,
population is personal injuryattorneys.
When a personal injury attorneysettles a lawsuit, and
(10:08):
particularly if it's for aperson who became disabled
because of this incident, carwreck, medical malpractice
whatever they are suing for,medical malpractice, whatever
they are suing for.
If this person is now soinjured that they are disabled
and that they are on Medicaid,this settlement needs to be
(10:29):
handled in a specific way and aspecial needs trust is the way
to do that.
And marketing to these peopleis pretty straightforward Find
out who does it, call them andsay, hey, do you have a special
needs trust attorney?
Even if they do, that's fine,still go talk to them and say,
hey, I'm doing this.
Also, if your person is busy,can't get this to you in
(10:54):
sufficient time, please call me.
I'm into this, I have time.
I can turn this around prettyquickly for you.
So here's my card Give me acall and they will definitely be
open to having someone else outthere that they can call on.
(11:16):
Increase your general clientsatisfaction being able to meet
with a person who hasn't thoughtabout this to say, hey, you
have a special needs grandchild.
What have you thought aboutdoing for this child?
How do you plan on leaving yourestate?
Would you like to leave somemoney to this child who will
(11:40):
never work, who needs extra help.
Have you thought about leavingmoney to them?
Typically, they'll say, yes,but if I leave them money, they
will lose their benefits.
You're like you're exactlycorrect, but here's a solution
and that will make their day.
They're like, yeah, this isfantastic.
Now let's talk about when youget to this point.
(12:01):
Okay, I would hope that everyrevocable living trust that you
do has contingency special needstrust language in it, meaning
if, at the death of your clients, the trust creators, if at
their death there is a disabledchild, their share of the money
(12:22):
goes into a special needs trust.
I would hope that every trustthat you do does that, and I
honestly think it's almostmalpractice if you don't do that
.
However, that is not sufficient.
When there is a known specialneeds trust person out there,
okay, when there is a knownspecial needs trust or special
(12:43):
needs person, I encourage you topresent to your client to say,
hey, I think we should do aseparate freestanding special
needs trust.
Okay, that that means anadditional trust to do today.
Okay, when you do theirrevocable living trust, you will
also create a freestandingspecial needs trust that is
(13:05):
created, it's funded slightlyand it's there, ready, willing
and able to accept funds whenthe trust makers pass away.
Okay.
There are three reasons that Irecommend that you do a separate
, freestanding special needstrust.
Number one what Congress givesCongress can take away.
(13:29):
Okay, the ability to put moneyinto this trust and still get a
federal benefit, medicaid orsocial security federal benefit,
medicaid or Social Security isa grace from Congress.
Congress says, sure, we willlet you do this with the
(13:50):
understanding particularly ifthe disabled person's putting
their money into the trust thatis a first party special needs
trust we will get our money backwhen that person dies.
Or if there is any money leftin this trust, we will get it.
Okay, that's an agreement thatCongress has made with these
people to say, sure, we'll letyou stay on Medicaid, but the
(14:11):
money from this trust will goback to reimburse Medicaid for
the care that you got.
So if Congress gives that to us, they can also take it away.
They can pass a law to say, hey,we see that there's a lot of
money being protected and peopleare on benefits when they have
money.
We don't like that anymore,we're going to change it.
(14:32):
And so from this date forward,or in 60 days, 90 days, whatever
special needs trust will beoutlawed.
Whatever special needs trustwill be outlawed.
Now I don't see them evermaking that law retroactive to
say all current special needstrusts are now outlawed.
They would just say, from thispoint forward, special needs
trust are outlawed.
(14:53):
Therefore, if you have aspecial needs trust that is up
and going today and that law ispassed next month, your special
needs trust will not be affectedby the new law.
It will be only for trustcreated from that point forward,
your testamentary special needstrust in your revocable living
(15:16):
trust.
If it is created in the futurewhen your client dies and
Congress has changed the rules,that special needs trust would
not get created.
Okay, you see my point.
So I want to do it today, sothat it is up and going today
and therefore not subject to thewhims of Congress later on.
(15:38):
It's there, it's going, it'sslightly funded and will not be
affected by future laws.
That's number one.
Number two I want to I havethis trust up and going and in
effect, so that I can send it toSocial Security and have them
look at it and either give metheir blessing or tell me what
(16:01):
they don't like about it.
Ok, so every time I do afreestanding special needs trust
, we send a copy to SocialSecurity just your, your local
office with a cover letter thatsays hey, we did a special needs
trust for this beneficiary.
Here's their social securitynumber.
Please look at it.
If you have any concerns withit, please let me know.
(16:24):
All right, do they do that?
No, they do not.
I've done dozens of these, sentthem to social security and I
think I've gotten one letterback.
Okay, they typically don'trespond, they're like whatever,
fine, well, I send it to themwith a return receipt, green
card or you know somethingonline saying that they got it.
(16:46):
I make a copy of that and I putit in my client's file so that
we know that they got it.
They had the opportunity to lookat it and they chose not to.
Then, 10, 15 years from now,when your clients pass away and
a substantial amount of moneygoes into this trust, everybody
(17:09):
gets concerned.
It's like, oh, this person onMedicaid just got a few hundred
thousand dollars.
They then start looking at it.
It's like, oh, this person onMedicaid just got a few hundred
thousand dollars.
They then start looking at it.
It's like, yeah, we don't likethis language or this language
or this language.
It's like, well, and they sendyou the letter, the family
freaks out, they bring you theletter and you're like hey,
medic, hey, social security.
Fifteen years ago I sent youthis letter.
You got it on this date.
(17:31):
I gave you the opportunity tolook at it at that point in time
.
You chose not to, so you'rekind of stuck with it.
Okay, now it's the federalgovernment.
They can kind of do what theywant to.
But I do think that thatcarries a lot of weight to a
judge to say, hey, we gave themthe opportunity when we created
this while we could change it,and they did not do anything.
(17:55):
Okay, so I think it at leastputs you in a better position to
say you're kind of stuck withit.
You can't make changes now,when you had the opportunity to
do it later.
Whereas if you rely on thattestamentary special needs trust
that is not created until theperson dies, then you send that
(18:16):
special needs trust to thesocial security office and they
complain about it.
They have a good position tosay, yeah, we don't like this,
and it's very difficult then tochange because the trust makers
have passed away.
That's point number two.
Point number three is there maybe other people who want to
(18:36):
benefit this child or thisperson.
Okay, you do it so that yourclients, the parents or
grandparents, at their death, aportion of their inheritance
will go to this special needstrust to benefit this person.
But other people may want tohelp this child.
(18:57):
They're like, oh, there's atrust, we can name that trust as
a beneficiary of our land.
Say it's the grandparents oraunts and uncles or cousins or
siblings.
They're like, hey, I want somemoney to go to the special needs
trust.
You can't leave money to afuture created, testamentary
(19:17):
special needs trust.
You can only leave it to onethat is created now, has a date
and is up and freestanding, andso it gives other people the
opportunity to leave money tothis child Parents love this
idea or the creator of thistrust who's saying, yes, I want
to benefit this person, but ifthis will allow other people to
(19:40):
also benefit this child, that'sa great idea.
So therefore, that's why Iencourage three good reasons to
do a separate, freestandingspecial needs trust so you not
only do your client's revocableliving trust, powers of attorney
, all of that, you also get todo another trust on top of that,
(20:01):
which does cost more, but tothe client it is worth it.
It's like this is definitelyworth it to know that we're
sending it to social security,they're going to look at it.
They may or may not complainabout it, but at least they've
been given notice.
This is in effect today.
When we do it, it's not subjectto the whims of Congress and
(20:23):
other people can't benefit thischild, it just makes sense.
And pretty much every time Ihave presented that to a client
and I charge somewhere between$1,500 and $2,500 extra for this
trust, families are like, yeah,let's do it, it's fine.
Yeah, that's a great idea,let's do it, all right.
So I highly encourage you thatif you don't do special needs
(20:48):
trust planning, you need to, andhopefully I've given you good
reasons and some quick marketingtips on doing that.
Now, if you're like, but Todd, Idon't know how to do this, I've
never done this before I wouldnot have any idea what to do
with a client who called to say,hey, do you do special needs
trust?
(21:08):
Well, if you do coaching, youcan take those clients.
You can say, yeah, come on in,let's get some information,
gather the information and thencall me and let's solve this
problem.
Ok, that's the purpose ofcoaching is knowing that I am
there with you.
(21:29):
I will help you from the verystart.
I have slide decks ready to gofor presentations to this
community.
You just take out myinformation, put in your
information.
It is ready to go.
It works.
It's a fantastic slideshow thatwill get people in the door to
(21:51):
have you do special needs trustfor them.
You can take this client havingno idea what to do.
Get on the phone with me.
I will walk you through this.
I'll even do the initialmeeting with you by phone to
help field their questions,answer their questions, help.
Both of you know.
Yes, we do have a solution forthis and you don't have to turn
(22:16):
these people away.
I will help you draft thedocuments with your software.
I know Wealth Council.
I know Elder Council.
I know Interactive Legal.
If you have something differentthan that, it might take me a
little while to figure it out,but I can definitely help you go
through and do a special needstrust and make sure that you do
(22:36):
the right one.
We talked about a first partyspecial needs trust.
There's also a third party.
You don't want to do the wrongone because you will cause
problems and it's malpractice todo a first party when you
should have done a third partybecause there's a payback.
So all of that stuff we willcover in coaching and I would
encourage you please implementspecial needs trust.
(22:59):
It's fun, clients love it.
You'll love it because you knowyou get a fun special needs
person in your office.
It's truly fun.
You know one of my favoriteclients to bring in are clients
that have Down syndrome.
You know one of my favoriteclients to bring in are clients
that have Down syndrome.
You know Down syndrome kids.
They're typically living theirbest life.
(23:21):
I mean they're not stressed,they're just living life and
they enjoy it.
And some of your higherfunctioning Down syndrome are
just fun to work with, okay, andthey appreciate what you're
doing.
The parents appreciate it andit's a lifelong client that you
will get to work with and you'lltruly have fun with it.
(23:43):
So please do it.
And if you are interested incoaching, please go to the elder
law coachcom.
You'll get a ton of informationthere.
I would love to work with you,help you get this along with a
state planning for older peopleMedicaid.
I have the complete trainingprogram ready to go.
(24:04):
I would love to work with you.
Also on the website, you canschedule a phone call
appointment with me.
I would love to talk to you Ifyou do have questions, if you're
like well, I don't know ifcoaching is good for my practice
, let's talk about it.
Okay, there are some people thatI've told no, I don't think
you're ready, I don't think thisis something that it's not
(24:26):
worth the investment right now.
I'll be honest with you.
Okay, you're not going to geton the phone with me and, you
know, feel like you're beingbadgered into it.
It's a thing that if it's not agood fit for both of us, we're
not going to do it.
Okay, I don't want you to beforced into this.
(24:48):
I only want to work with peoplewho want to work with me and
then I can see implement thisinto their practice and do what
I think is the best job in theworld.
Okay, give us a call, visit thewebsite and I would love to
work with you and I will see younext time.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Thank you for joining this episode of the Elder Law
Coach Podcast.
For those eager to take theirelder law practice to new
heights and are interested inTodd's acclaimed coaching
program, visitwwwtheelderlawcoachcom.
With Todd Watley by your side,the journey to becoming an elder
law authority has never beenmore achievable.
(25:23):
Until next time, keep learning,keep growing and stay
passionate about elder law.
Thank you.
Specialized experience, Whetheryou're an established attorney
looking to refine your expertiseor an emerging lawyer seeking a
successful foray into elder law, this is your masterclass.
Now let's get started with theluminary in the field.
Here's Todd Whatley.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's right.
This is the Elder Law Coach andI am Todd Whatley and, as
always, I am very thankful foryou downloading, listening and
subscribing.
I'm getting pretty, you knowwell over a hundred downloads as
soon as I put this up, whichmeans people have downloaded
this, and I appreciate that.
And if you haven't done that, Iwould encourage you to do that.
(01:01):
I am on a mission to do apodcast a week throughout 2025.
And so there will be a lot ofcontent coming through here and
I encourage you to subscribe,all right.
So let's get right to it.
Today's topic is a practice areathat, if you're not doing this,
I highly encourage you to do it, and I want to talk about why.
(01:22):
And that practice area isspecial needs trust, or
supplemental needs trust.
If you're not familiar withthat, let's talk about that very
quickly, just so you can knowwhat it is, and then I'll
explain why it's so important.
And this is one of those areasthat I'm very passionate about
because, if you know my historypassionate about because, if you
(01:43):
know my history, I started outas a physical therapist.
I had a have a master's degreein physical therapy, did that
for 13 years until I got boredand went to law school and me
being bored with that hadnothing to do with the clients.
I love the clients, love doingit.
It's just I just wanted to dosomething different.
(02:05):
But special needs trust orspecial needs people are very
special people.
This population is very nearand dear to the family's hearts,
to friends' hearts, to a lot ofpeople, and they want to make
sure that these people are takencare of because, by definition,
(02:27):
they typically cannot take careof themselves and they need a
lot of you know, sometimes a lotof help, sometimes not much
help, but typically with someonewho will be a client for this
type of work.
This person doesn't work andprobably never will work and is
(02:49):
on Medicaid for benefits,typically medical help,
financial help and they need tokeep these benefits.
But people family members wantto leave them money, want to
help them the best way they can,but helping them financially
will cause them to lose theirMedicaid benefits unless
(03:10):
something special is done andthat something special is a
special needs trust.
This population is veryclose-knit.
The families of special needspeople are very close.
They talk, they communicate andif you can get in with this
(03:32):
group and do very good work forthem, serve them, work with them
.
They will tell other people andyour business will thrive
tremendously from working withthis population.
Okay, it's a fun group.
Okay, these families are verypassionate.
The special needs client issometimes very interesting, very
(03:58):
fun to work with and everyoneappreciates what you do.
Okay, and everyone appreciateswhat you do Okay, and I think,
as the population is aging andif you do elder law, this is an
area that you need to befamiliar with, because a lot of
times, families come in for justgeneral estate planning, and
(04:20):
when the issue of a specialneeds child or grandchild comes
up, this is the families want toprotect this child.
(04:45):
They want to leave them money,knowing that this child never
will be able to work, or, ifthey do work, it's very minimal
and they need money to supportthemselves, because Medicaid
doesn't do everything or it's avery minimal amount of financial
support for this child.
(05:06):
But they want to do more.
But giving them money willcause them to lose their
benefits, and so a special needstrust has specific language in
it that allows the person tostill get Medicaid but also
benefit from money.
Okay, families are are seekingout this help.
They, um, they either knowabout it and want someone to do
(05:31):
this for them, or they don'tknow about it, but they do know
that.
Um, they have heard ofsolutions, they know there are
problems with leaving a childmoney and they are seeking out
legal assistance to do this andyou are very specifically
(05:52):
positioned to provide thisbenefit.
I will tell you financialplanners, cpas they are being
inundated with estate planningsolutions.
Okay, software, hey, get yourclient to do this with you
rather than with an attorney.
Those solutions are very basic,very generic, but the general
(06:18):
public just thinks, okay, atrust is a trust is a trust.
And when they have their estateplanning person not their
estate when they have theirfinancial person, their CPA
financial advisor also offerthem an estate plan.
They're like oh sure, why not?
But I will tell you, this is anarea that is very specific
(06:39):
special needs planning.
These families of special needs, people don't mess around, they
don't want to mess this up andI would hope that a CPA
financial advisor who's offeringthis estate planning software
work would come to their sensesand realize, okay, if we're
(07:00):
doing, if this family is askingfor something to help a child
who is on public benefits, wedon't want to mess this up.
And that software willdefinitely mess them up, and
surely they will seek the adviceof an attorney to do this, and
that's where you come in.
You present yourself as theexpert on this, with your
(07:23):
knowledge of Medicaid and estateplanning.
It combines those to make surethis is done absolutely correct.
And there are a lot of potholeshere.
There are a lot of areas thatcan cause problems, and I would
hope that a financial advisor,cpa, would come to their senses
and say we need to seek out theadvice of an expert and you can
(07:49):
become that expert in this area,okay, and so I want to talk
about you know there, there maybe someone in your community who
is doing this, who is wellknown for this.
That's fine, you can do it too.
Okay, competition's always goodfor people being out there, as
another alternative is is good.
(08:10):
It's good for that person toknow someone is out there
competing with them.
It'll keep them on their toes,make sure that they're doing a
good job, but it will also forceyou to do a good job or a
better job at this.
And communicating and providingthis service to people Okay,
marketing to this group is kindof easy, because these groups
(08:35):
tend to congregate at thedaycare that is special for
these people at.
You know there are events, thereare things that are
specifically for this population, and if you can get in there,
if you can talk to the directorat a special needs daycare or a
(08:57):
adult facility that works withthis population, if you can get
in with them and say, hey, I'man attorney, I do special needs
work and what can I do for you,how can I get on your list of
referrals?
Can I do a lunch and learn?
Can I come out after hours andhave families come in and speak?
(09:20):
What can I do and speak?
What can I do?
How can I get in front of thesepeople to get them the services
that they are looking for?
It's not that you're sellingthem anything.
They are looking for this andyou are able to provide that and
it's a it's a very closecommunity.
Okay, so if you choose to dothis and I encourage that you do
(09:44):
get out there to thesefacilities, talk to them and get
in front of them and see whatyou can do to to make their life
easier, and they will thenrefer folks to you.
Another great marketing umlocation or, you know,
population is personal injuryattorneys.
When a personal injury attorneysettles a lawsuit, and
(10:08):
particularly if it's for aperson who became disabled
because of this incident, carwreck, medical malpractice
whatever they are suing for,medical malpractice, whatever
they are suing for.
If this person is now soinjured that they are disabled
and that they are on Medicaid,this settlement needs to be
(10:29):
handled in a specific way and aspecial needs trust is the way
to do that.
And marketing to these peopleis pretty straightforward Find
out who does it, call them andsay, hey, do you have a special
needs trust attorney?
Even if they do, that's fine,still go talk to them and say,
hey, I'm doing this.
Also, if your person is busy,can't get this to you in
(10:54):
sufficient time, please call me.
I'm into this, I have time.
I can turn this around prettyquickly for you.
So here's my card Give me acall and they will definitely be
open to having someone else outthere that they can call on.
(11:16):
Increase your general clientsatisfaction being able to meet
with a person who hasn't thoughtabout this to say, hey, you
have a special needs grandchild.
What have you thought aboutdoing for this child?
How do you plan on leaving yourestate?
Would you like to leave somemoney to this child who will
(11:40):
never work, who needs extra help.
Have you thought about leavingmoney to them?
Typically, they'll say, yes,but if I leave them money, they
will lose their benefits.
You're like you're exactlycorrect, but here's a solution
and that will make their day.
They're like, yeah, this isfantastic.
Now let's talk about when youget to this point.
(12:01):
Okay, I would hope that everyrevocable living trust that you
do has contingency special needstrust language in it, meaning
if, at the death of your clients, the trust creators, if at
their death there is a disabledchild, their share of the money
(12:22):
goes into a special needs trust.
I would hope that every trustthat you do does that, and I
honestly think it's almostmalpractice if you don't do that
.
However, that is not sufficient.
When there is a known specialneeds trust person out there,
okay, when there is a knownspecial needs trust or special
(12:43):
needs person, I encourage you topresent to your client to say,
hey, I think we should do aseparate freestanding special
needs trust.
Okay, that that means anadditional trust to do today.
Okay, when you do theirrevocable living trust, you will
also create a freestandingspecial needs trust that is
(13:05):
created, it's funded slightlyand it's there, ready, willing
and able to accept funds whenthe trust makers pass away.
Okay.
There are three reasons that Irecommend that you do a separate
, freestanding special needstrust.
Number one what Congress givesCongress can take away.
(13:29):
Okay, the ability to put moneyinto this trust and still get a
federal benefit, medicaid orsocial security federal benefit,
medicaid or Social Security isa grace from Congress.
Congress says, sure, we willlet you do this with the
(13:50):
understanding particularly ifthe disabled person's putting
their money into the trust thatis a first party special needs
trust we will get our money backwhen that person dies.
Or if there is any money leftin this trust, we will get it.
Okay, that's an agreement thatCongress has made with these
people to say, sure, we'll letyou stay on Medicaid, but the
(14:11):
money from this trust will goback to reimburse Medicaid for
the care that you got.
So if Congress gives that to us, they can also take it away.
They can pass a law to say, hey,we see that there's a lot of
money being protected and peopleare on benefits when they have
money.
We don't like that anymore,we're going to change it.
(14:32):
And so from this date forward,or in 60 days, 90 days, whatever
special needs trust will beoutlawed.
Whatever special needs trustwill be outlawed.
Now I don't see them evermaking that law retroactive to
say all current special needstrusts are now outlawed.
They would just say, from thispoint forward, special needs
trust are outlawed.
(14:53):
Therefore, if you have aspecial needs trust that is up
and going today and that law ispassed next month, your special
needs trust will not be affectedby the new law.
It will be only for trustcreated from that point forward,
your testamentary special needstrust in your revocable living
(15:16):
trust.
If it is created in the futurewhen your client dies and
Congress has changed the rules,that special needs trust would
not get created.
Okay, you see my point.
So I want to do it today, sothat it is up and going today
and therefore not subject to thewhims of Congress later on.
(15:38):
It's there, it's going, it'sslightly funded and will not be
affected by future laws.
That's number one.
Number two I want to I havethis trust up and going and in
effect, so that I can send it toSocial Security and have them
look at it and either give metheir blessing or tell me what
(16:01):
they don't like about it.
Ok, so every time I do afreestanding special needs trust
, we send a copy to SocialSecurity just your, your local
office with a cover letter thatsays hey, we did a special needs
trust for this beneficiary.
Here's their social securitynumber.
Please look at it.
If you have any concerns withit, please let me know.
(16:24):
All right, do they do that?
No, they do not.
I've done dozens of these, sentthem to social security and I
think I've gotten one letterback.
Okay, they typically don'trespond, they're like whatever,
fine, well, I send it to themwith a return receipt, green
card or you know somethingonline saying that they got it.
(16:46):
I make a copy of that and I putit in my client's file so that
we know that they got it.
They had the opportunity to lookat it and they chose not to.
Then, 10, 15 years from now,when your clients pass away and
a substantial amount of moneygoes into this trust, everybody
(17:09):
gets concerned.
It's like, oh, this person onMedicaid just got a few hundred
thousand dollars.
They then start looking at it.
It's like, oh, this person onMedicaid just got a few hundred
thousand dollars.
They then start looking at it.
It's like, yeah, we don't likethis language or this language
or this language.
It's like, well, and they sendyou the letter, the family
freaks out, they bring you theletter and you're like hey,
medic, hey, social security.
Fifteen years ago I sent youthis letter.
You got it on this date.
(17:31):
I gave you the opportunity tolook at it at that point in time
.
You chose not to, so you'rekind of stuck with it.
Okay, now it's the federalgovernment.
They can kind of do what theywant to.
But I do think that thatcarries a lot of weight to a
judge to say, hey, we gave themthe opportunity when we created
this while we could change it,and they did not do anything.
(17:55):
Okay, so I think it at leastputs you in a better position to
say you're kind of stuck withit.
You can't make changes now,when you had the opportunity to
do it later.
Whereas if you rely on thattestamentary special needs trust
that is not created until theperson dies, then you send that
(18:16):
special needs trust to thesocial security office and they
complain about it.
They have a good position tosay, yeah, we don't like this,
and it's very difficult then tochange because the trust makers
have passed away.
That's point number two.
Point number three is there maybe other people who want to
(18:36):
benefit this child or thisperson.
Okay, you do it so that yourclients, the parents or
grandparents, at their death, aportion of their inheritance
will go to this special needstrust to benefit this person.
But other people may want tohelp this child.
(18:57):
They're like, oh, there's atrust, we can name that trust as
a beneficiary of our land.
Say it's the grandparents oraunts and uncles or cousins or
siblings.
They're like, hey, I want somemoney to go to the special needs
trust.
You can't leave money to afuture created, testamentary
(19:17):
special needs trust.
You can only leave it to onethat is created now, has a date
and is up and freestanding, andso it gives other people the
opportunity to leave money tothis child Parents love this
idea or the creator of thistrust who's saying, yes, I want
to benefit this person, but ifthis will allow other people to
(19:40):
also benefit this child, that'sa great idea.
So therefore, that's why Iencourage three good reasons to
do a separate, freestandingspecial needs trust so you not
only do your client's revocableliving trust, powers of attorney
, all of that, you also get todo another trust on top of that,
(20:01):
which does cost more, but tothe client it is worth it.
It's like this is definitelyworth it to know that we're
sending it to social security,they're going to look at it.
They may or may not complainabout it, but at least they've
been given notice.
This is in effect today.
When we do it, it's not subjectto the whims of Congress and
(20:23):
other people can't benefit thischild, it just makes sense.
And pretty much every time Ihave presented that to a client
and I charge somewhere between$1,500 and $2,500 extra for this
trust, families are like, yeah,let's do it, it's fine.
Yeah, that's a great idea,let's do it, all right.
So I highly encourage you thatif you don't do special needs
(20:48):
trust planning, you need to, andhopefully I've given you good
reasons and some quick marketingtips on doing that.
Now, if you're like, but Todd, Idon't know how to do this, I've
never done this before I wouldnot have any idea what to do
with a client who called to say,hey, do you do special needs
trust?
(21:08):
Well, if you do coaching, youcan take those clients.
You can say, yeah, come on in,let's get some information,
gather the information and thencall me and let's solve this
problem.
Ok, that's the purpose ofcoaching is knowing that I am
there with you.
(21:29):
I will help you from the verystart.
I have slide decks ready to gofor presentations to this
community.
You just take out myinformation, put in your
information.
It is ready to go.
It works.
It's a fantastic slideshow thatwill get people in the door to
(21:51):
have you do special needs trustfor them.
You can take this client havingno idea what to do.
Get on the phone with me.
I will walk you through this.
I'll even do the initialmeeting with you by phone to
help field their questions,answer their questions, help.
Both of you know.
Yes, we do have a solution forthis and you don't have to turn
(22:16):
these people away.
I will help you draft thedocuments with your software.
I know Wealth Council.
I know Elder Council.
I know Interactive Legal.
If you have something differentthan that, it might take me a
little while to figure it out,but I can definitely help you go
through and do a special needstrust and make sure that you do
(22:36):
the right one.
We talked about a first partyspecial needs trust.
There's also a third party.
You don't want to do the wrongone because you will cause
problems and it's malpractice todo a first party when you
should have done a third partybecause there's a payback.
So all of that stuff we willcover in coaching and I would
encourage you please implementspecial needs trust.
(22:59):
It's fun, clients love it.
You'll love it because you knowyou get a fun special needs
person in your office.
It's truly fun.
You know one of my favoriteclients to bring in are clients
that have Down syndrome.
You know one of my favoriteclients to bring in are clients
that have Down syndrome.
You know Down syndrome kids.
They're typically living theirbest life.
(23:21):
I mean they're not stressed,they're just living life and
they enjoy it.
And some of your higherfunctioning Down syndrome are
just fun to work with, okay, andthey appreciate what you're
doing.
The parents appreciate it andit's a lifelong client that you
will get to work with and you'lltruly have fun with it.
(23:43):
So please do it.
And if you are interested incoaching, please go to the elder
law coachcom.
You'll get a ton of informationthere.
I would love to work with you,help you get this along with a
state planning for older peopleMedicaid.
I have the complete trainingprogram ready to go.
(24:04):
I would love to work with you.
Also on the website, you canschedule a phone call
appointment with me.
I would love to talk to you Ifyou do have questions, if you're
like well, I don't know ifcoaching is good for my practice
, let's talk about it.
Okay, there are some people thatI've told no, I don't think
you're ready, I don't think thisis something that it's not
(24:26):
worth the investment right now.
I'll be honest with you.
Okay, you're not going to geton the phone with me and, you
know, feel like you're beingbadgered into it.
It's a thing that if it's not agood fit for both of us, we're
not going to do it.
Okay, I don't want you to beforced into this.
(24:48):
I only want to work with peoplewho want to work with me and
then I can see implement thisinto their practice and do what
I think is the best job in theworld.
Okay, give us a call, visit thewebsite and I would love to
work with you and I will see younext time.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Thank you for joining this episode of the Elder Law
Coach Podcast.
For those eager to take theirelder law practice to new
heights and are interested inTodd's acclaimed coaching
program, visitwwwtheelderlawcoachcom.
With Todd Watley by your side,the journey to becoming an elder
law authority has never beenmore achievable.
(25:23):
Until next time, keep learning,keep growing and stay
passionate about elder law.
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