October 30, 2023 • 37 mins
Have you ever wondered how the world of personal injury law operates? Join us as we sit down with James Grant, a lawyer who's redesigned the game with his innovative approach. James takes us through his journey of building a successful law firm, and how he's carved a niche by becoming a referral lawyer - assisting other injury lawyers by helping them settle their cases faster and with less stress. He also touches on the financial benefits of this model: by cutting out costs on digital ads and pre-litigation campaigns, his firm has created a symbiotic relationship with other law firms.
In the world of business, we know that connections are everything. James shares how something as simple as offering a free meal can open doors and forge professional relationships, setting the stage for future B2B transactions. We also chat about the power of networking within your industry, and the role tools like podcasting play in nurturing these relationships. Get ready to discover a new way of cultivating connections and growing your business.
Finally, James peels back the curtain on how automation and technology have dramatically altered his legal practice. By streamlining processes and reducing costs, he's managed to drive his firm to new heights. He also shares his experiences with trusted advisors and coaching, revealing how these resources have helped him make smarter, objective business decisions. Plus, we delve into the importance of professional growth and mentorship in service-based businesses. It's a conversation packed full of valuable insights from a seasoned lawyer who's successfully navigated the turbulent waters of the legal field. Join us and learn how to harness the power of connections, technology, and strategic planning in your professional journey.
This episode is NOT sponsored. Some product links are affiliate links, meaning we'll receive a small commission if you buy something.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Elevate Media podcast with your
host, Chris Anderson.
In this show, Chris and hisguests will share their
knowledge and experience on howto go from zero to successful
entrepreneur.
They have built theirbusinesses from scratch and are
now ready to give back to thosewho are just starting.
Let's get ready to learn, growand elevate our businesses.
And now your host, ChrisAnderson.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right, welcome to another recording of the
Elevate Media podcast.
I am Chris Anderson, your host,and today I'm going to have to
be careful what I say, becausewe're talking to a lawyer.
No, I'm just kidding, but weare talking to a lawyer.
We got James Grant on the showtoday.
We're going to dive into hisjourney of how he's built his
successful law firm and how he'sdone it a little bit out of the
(00:55):
ordinary.
So, james, welcome to theElevate Media podcast today.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hey, chris, thanks for having me.
You don't have to be worried, Iwon't hold you to the line too
much with your words, words arekind of a big deal in my line of
work.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, absolutely so.
You know what even got you intothis line of work, you know,
with personal energy andlitigation, lawyer stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Man, my story has taken so many different turns.
I went from being a civilengineer to thinking I was going
to do patent law, to ending upin a firm that did every type of
law there was, to running myown firm and finding a narrow
focus to where we help otherpersonal injury lawyers make
more money faster and with lessstress.
So it's been a wild journey tocome to the niche that we've
(01:34):
ended on.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, and that's an interesting sector.
It's something I one I didn'treally even realize was a thing.
So you help other lawyers withcases, right?
Am I tracking on that?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
No, I mean.
So that's exactly how it worksand that's a common
misconception because a lot ofpeople, especially when they get
in an accident, they call thename and number that they you
know here on the radio, they seeon the buses, on the billboards
, tv, radio, all that stuff.
And those firms are actuallyreally good at the first part of
a case.
There's two phases to apersonal injury case.
You have a pre litigation phasewhere most of the time the
(02:09):
insurance company is able toresolve the case.
But there's some cases wherethe insurance company doesn't do
the right thing and the onlyway to move it forward is to
file a lawsuit.
And if a law firm is runninglike a business and they've got
a great business flow forhandling those pre litigation
cases a lot of time, it's morevaluable to them and the client
(02:30):
if they stay in that lane andthen our firm actually helps
them and their clients becausethat's all we do as well.
So we're kind of just tag,teaming the case together in
different stages and really ableto maximize recovery on a lot
of different ends.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh wow.
So they're basically, when theyget this point, it's kind of
outside of their bread andbutter, their sweet spot.
They kind of outsource or theyteam up with you guys and you
come in and you get yourspecialty and you get things
done.
So it's a win-win-win really.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Oh yeah no it's a win-win for the client 100%,
because they're getting aspecialist number one in that
first stage and then, when itcomes to litigation, they're
getting a litigation specialistand team of trial attorneys
where that's all we do andthat's what we're good at.
So it's one of those dealswhere, well, when you go to the
doctor, you want to have aspecialist along the way.
You don't necessarily want tohave your primary care physician
(03:22):
doing an operation.
They're going to refer you outto the specialist and it's the
same way it works with us.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Okay, interesting.
So how is that starting out?
Because I don't know.
But is that just like a normalthing?
Is there a kickback from otherlaw firms that like, oh, I don't
want to work with someone else?
Like, what did that look likestarting out to build these
relationships?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, I mean.
So this is something that's notsuper common.
We are a I don't like to sayunicorn, because no one in
business is a unicorn.
Everyone kind of is goingthrough the same stuff.
But we have a very, very, verylarge market share and we have a
unique value proposition thatdifferentiates us from a lot of
the competition that we mighthave in this space.
(04:06):
But there are personal injurylaw firms out there that do what
we do and we kind of call itreferral work.
Another attorney is going torefer us a case and then we're
going to litigate it and we'regoing to resolve it for them,
but within what we've done.
When any type of business istrying to set themselves apart,
you can't sit back and be like,well, I give the greatest
(04:26):
service and my clients love me.
That's not objective.
No one cares about that stuff.
You have to have somethingthat's objective, that's an
offering that they can look andsay, oh, when I compare you to
this firm, you are objectivelydifferent.
Our difference maker was that ifwe're going to set out to truly
help other law firms, then wecan't compete with them.
At the same time, Ourcommitment to our partners is
(04:49):
we're not going to spend anymoney on digital ads, Facebook,
Google, billboards, buses, radio, TV none of that stuff because
we're not actually going to goafter your clients being the
people that are injured in anaccident today.
We want the case that you can'tresolve.
So that way we're building asymbiotic relationship as
opposed to working a case with afirm and a partner will split
(05:12):
the fee, but then I take thatmoney and invest it in a pre-let
campaign to where now I'mcompeting with them and also
using their money to drive uptheir cost of acquisition.
So when we cut that out, wekind of created a very large
market share with no one reallywants to hop in our space
because they see the bright andshiny objects over here of the
new cases and we just want tobuild relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Got you.
So you basically said, hey,we're not going to, we're not
trying to take out the middleman like we want you to still be
there, and we're just kind ofan extension of what you do.
Yep, you save money withmarketing that way, because it's
all kind of word of mouth,referral and, of course,
probably reaching out to firms.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh, yes, no, our marketing has taken on an
entirely different plan.
Personal law firms are veryfocused on a lot of the digital
outreach, because that's reallyhow you get the most exposure to
people.
You have your network of closefamily friends, former clients,
current clients, and that cansustain a lot of firms.
(06:14):
But once you start getting intothe millions of dollars in
revenue, you really have tostart spending a lot of money in
the digital space to acquirethose new leads and qualify them
in that With us.
We're now a B2B businessdevelopment marketing firm,
effectively on the marketingside.
So it's all about buildingrelationships with other lawyers
(06:35):
and that's you're going tobreakfast, going to lunch, going
and playing golf, going to ballgames, doing other things with
other lawyers so they canestablish that no like and trust
because that's who you dobusiness with.
So it's entirely different thanmost other lawyers when you
think of how other lawyersmarket.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, and I like that perspective.
So you mentioned like taking aball game, taking the golf,
taking breakfast.
How do you approach theseindividuals for those listening
who might have never done a coldoutreach or try to connect with
someone new that's within theirtarget market as far as an
audience like especially B2Bwith service?
You know, how did you kind ofwalk that journey with them to
(07:16):
get them even on the golf course, you know, because that's I
mean I love golf and so, yeah, Imean what's your process there?
Is it just kind of like hey, Ihave this offer, we do this, or
do you approach it in adifferent way?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So a lot of it is.
There's definitely a lot ofeffectively cold calling, cold
emailing, but at the same timeyou have to leverage your
network as well.
Even though there's not a lotof other personal injury lawyers
in the state of Georgia,there's still several thousand.
So there's a lot of prospectsjust in my state and there's
(07:48):
actually lawyers that are in allthe surrounding region that
still practice in Georgia.
Because, for instance, a clientmay live in South Carolina but
they work in Georgia.
They get injured on the way towork in Georgia but they go home
and they call their lawyer inSouth Carolina.
That can happen, but if theyneed litigation they'll call me.
So there's a lot of people thatare out there.
But you have to be able toleverage first your close
(08:10):
connections, and that's where westarted, probably for the first
year, year and a half of doingthis is just leveraging our
connections, because once youget into somebody else's room,
then you get access to theirroom and their room and their
room and all of a sudden you nowhave the ability to say well, I
know John, and John introducedme to Fred and Fred introduced
(08:32):
me to Jennifer and Jennifer.
So that way you're building thetimeline to the people that
you're connecting with, asopposed to just the true cold
calls and cold emails where it'slike who is this person?
So that's really probably thebiggest thing in the B2B space
is leveraging connections,because connections start to
build that know, like and trustfaster, as opposed to just cold
(08:53):
emails, cold calls.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah.
So with that do you kind ofjust as you're connecting with
people hey, you wanna just goplay golf?
And then of course in thoseconversations it just comes up,
hey, what do you do?
Kind of thing.
It's not like as a directconversation.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, I mean, and also you have to think about it
from the perspective of what'sin it for me.
Everyone that you're pitching,so to speak, is they have to sit
back and be like, well, whywould I do this?
What am I gonna get out of it?
So you have to offer something,and generally the offer is
something simple as hey, let metake you out to lunch, let me go
buy you lunch, let me go buy abreakfast, and then from there
you can, at least in a 45 hourhour and a half conversation,
(09:31):
you can figure out pretty quickif you're gonna make a
connection with this person.
And it's not to say that youhave to have a connection on a
personal level with everyonethat you do business with.
But those are obviously gonnabe your strongest leads, those
are gonna be your strongestrelationships for the future,
because, again, this is along-term play.
This isn't something whereyou're looking for a quick pop
of hey, I want this one-timecustomer and then that's it.
(09:53):
You're looking for the lifetimevalue, especially on the B2B
side of business.
So, with that, the people thatyou have the strongest
connection with andrelationships with are the ones
that you pursue the easiest andjust give them something that,
hey, here, here's a free meal.
What?
70 bucks for a nice lunchsomewhere?
I mean, it's not that much, butit at least gives you the
(10:15):
offering to figure out what theydo, how you can work together.
And then from there, hey, let'sgo play golf the next week.
Or hey, let's go to this ballgame.
Or do you like this concert?
Hey, come to the concert, let'sgo, let's go, and stuff like
that.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, and I think it's good to look at it from
that perspective, because I knowa lot of people they just try
to push like right away, like Iget a lot of messages on
LinkedIn that's like, hey, Ithink you would like this is
what we do.
I'm like you don't even ask,like you don't even know, like
it's just a straight pitch outof the gate and that's just like
when I see those, I just eitherdelete them or don't respond,
(10:48):
because it's like it doesn'twork that way.
We wanna build a relationship,like you're saying, and that's
why I love podcasting too,because I mean you just are
trying to learn from someone.
You're kind of putting them onthe pedestal to your audience,
and it opens the door to build arelationship and be able to
just see what everyone's about,which I think is another great
tool as well.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Well, I think at the same time you make the point of
you have different people acrossdifferent service industries.
It's really easy for me as alawyer to go talk to another
lawyer because we automaticallyhave something in common right
there.
Even if I'm a CPA, I go toanother CPA.
We've been through that sameexam, we've done the same thing,
so we understand each other, atleast conceptually.
(11:31):
So it makes that introductionand hey, what's wrong with
another CPA taking another CPAto lunch?
So, like when you start doingthings within your own service
industry, you automatically havea leg up on everyone else.
Because, to your point ofLinkedIn, if some just random
marketer deems me on LinkedIn asopposed to another lawyer, well
, hey, I mean at least gonnathrow something behind that,
(11:53):
because maybe they havesomething to actually offer as
opposed to this unknown quantity.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, so when you're starting out with that, I mean
that's something that'sobviously learned, excuse me,
learned along the way.
Did you have any of thosemoments where You're like this
isn't working, Something's gotto give, We've got to shift
something.
And what was that?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, I mean, it's not necessarily the process, but
it's the plan.
A lot of times and we've beenwith a business coach since 2018
, and it's been the greatestthing ever but sometimes we just
fall off the wagon, so to speak, and we don't plan things out
like we should.
And in this instance, we'rekind of like, well, this is just
going to work, it's going to befine, and we didn't truly plan,
(12:39):
we didn't have the true inputof all the data that we needed
to where, when we finally madesome adjustments, we're like oh,
if we were to just look back,we would have seen that we
should have made this adjustmentsix months ago, and it's just
little things like that.
But it all comes down toplanning and tracking and being
able to pivot, because if youdon't do that, then you really
(13:00):
just are going on kind of gutand feel, and that never works
in the end.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, you could be taking action, you could be
taking initiative on it, but onthe wrong things set in the
wrong ways.
So I think, yeah, I think one,like you said, I had a business
coach, having a mentor, havesomebody that can kind of
externally say, hey well, thatdoesn't seem to be doing the
right thing, and then being ableto pivot and shift and adapt,
as you guys think.
That's a good one to think on,because on our journey you never
(13:26):
know what's going to come.
You never know what's going tohappen.
Like who would have thoughtChatGPT would have done what it
did and blew up?
And there's so much stuff goingon in the world you never know
what's next.
So along your journey, I'm surehas ChatGPT done anything crazy
within your industry?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Man, I love AI.
This stuff is phenomenal.
It's amazing.
It is going to revolutionizethe legal industry.
Now, with that, it's going tocause a lot of problems Because
it's going to put a whole lot ofpeople out of business Because
there's so many, and especiallywith lawyers.
Lawyers are notorious forhating technology, hating
(14:08):
financial controls and metricsand objective science, Just
because we like the practice oflaw, and the practice of law is
very consistent.
But when you throw in thesedisruptors, a lot of people just
get scared.
And I'm seeing the writing onthe wall six months a year ago
where it's like we have to hopon this train now Because if we
(14:31):
adapt AI into our firm, we'regoing to be light years ahead of
the firms that adapt it withinthe next two, three, four or
five years, and even theinsurance companies as well.
Those suckers move super, superslow.
They're still operating onsystems from the early 2000s.
So if we can get an advantage,bring it on.
But yeah, I love this stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, I saw a video the other day someone talking
about that.
Well, he's on the Joe Roganpodcast.
I forget the guest's name, buthe was saying how he went to
ChatGPT and he had a couple ofquestions that he was going to
ask his lawyer.
And he asked the same thing toChatGPT and then he called his
lawyer, which charges $600 perhour or whatever in his case,
and he said that the answerswere eerily similar.
(15:14):
He's like well, there goes oneexpense I don't have to do, and
I'm like man, that's crazy.
And I didn't know, from yourperspective, if you see that as
a negative or even like aslippery slope for people who
want to utilize that versusactually calling a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So I think for other lawyers potentially that is
super scary, but it gets us awayfrom the hourly billing model
where we just have to milk cases.
Now my firm we don't do hourlybilling, so that's not
necessarily a problem for us.
But when you're billing hourlya lot of times you're paying for
(15:53):
routine, for administrativethings that can be automated,
that can be delegated, that youcan use AI to help speed up the
process, because really we'reall about objective results.
When you hire a lawyer, youaren't paying for the time that
they put in.
You aren't paying for anythingother than give me this desired
result and actually the moreefficient you make the process
(16:17):
and the quicker you're able todeliver a result, the better
your firm, the better yourclients, the better everyone's
going to be off.
So that's why I think theimplementation of this is really
going to be a disrupter in thelegal field.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's definitely an interesting thing.
It suddenly shakes stuff up ina lot of things and, like you
said, if you're not on board, ifyou don't utilize this as a
tool, it is you're going to getleft behind, which is crazy.
So shift gears a little bitwith that.
I'm curious on your journey,have you ever had any moments
that were kind of like that kickin the gut, that win knocked
(16:52):
out at any moment, where you'relike, oh my gosh, are we going
to be able to rebound from this?
I never saw that coming.
I don't know your story aboutpeople with partners or trusting
someone and it backfires, and Idon't know if you've had any
random moments like that withinyour journey.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I mean, there have been moments where you look at
the situation and you're like,how did we get here, or what
controls did we not put in placeto end up along this way?
Fortunately, I'm in apartnership with my business
partner since 2015 and we're ina great relationship and there's
(17:30):
not many especially in thelegal field.
There's not many law firms thathave partnerships that last for
a long time, just because a lotof lawyers tend to be very
aggressive in their approach ofthey know how to do everything
the right way and they're thesource of all truth where Mark
and I have learned that he'sgood at this, I'm good at that,
we're able to come together on alot of things, and so being
(17:53):
able to have a trusted businesspartner and then surrounding
yourself with trusted businessadvisors, it helps you to make
smarter, objective decisions.
But, yeah, early on, we hadabsolutely no clue what we were
doing.
That's with most people andmost service industries anyway,
because we go to school, we aretrained how to do something, how
(18:16):
to think like a lawyer and someof how to practice law, but
we're given no business skills.
So that's really where most ofour failings were.
Obviously, we were still ableto generate revenue and grow our
firm.
But we didn't do it the rightway at all.
I mean, we were falling into themantra of, oh, I'm working 80
(18:36):
hours a week and I'm workingthese late nights serving my
clients.
Then when you sit back and lookback and it's like no, that's
not a badge of honor to wear,then if you actually talk with
an individual that's thinkingthat and talk with their client
and ask them the question ofwell, who would you want working
your case?
Do you want the attorney thatgot eight hours of rest and had
(18:57):
a meal with their family and isfeeling emotionally well and has
good mental health, or do youwant the attorney that's working
80, 90 hours, wearing it as abadge of honor, working your
case?
Will you ask them that question?
They say obviously I want theattorney that has strong mental
health.
But in the service industry wedon't think like that.
We think it's great to bepushing ourselves beyond what
we're really capable of doingand thinking that's somehow
(19:19):
going to actually benefitourselves and our clients.
That's probably where we made alot of feelings early on.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, how did you shift that?
Obviously, because I feel likethat is a badge of honor.
How did you go and actuallymake those shifts?
Was it tough to make that shift?
Did it take some time?
Or was it just like, hey, we'rechanging this because this is
not how we want to be and youjust implemented it?
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, that was the first three years of our lives.
Okay, when we started coachingin 2018, that's what really
helped us and changed us.
I tell everybody that'sinterested in coaching is, if
you have started a business andare in that business and then
you later bring on a coach, it'sgoing to suck Like there's
nothing that's going to be funabout it, because you go from
(20:04):
working in your businessgenerally a lot of hours let's
say you're working 60 hours aweek.
That's a lot of time thatyou're devoting to that business
Then you bring on a businesscoach.
Guess what?
You're still working 60 hours aweek in your business and now
you have to learn to work onyour business another 20 hours.
Your time requirement goes upexponentially.
(20:25):
There has to be a buy-in foryou, for your family, for your
team, for those that are aroundyou that are going to support
you through it, because for thefirst 6 to 18 months it's going
to suck, yeah, but for the usingthe cliche term of your
investing in your future self,if you make that early
investment in yourself, yourfuture self is going to thank
(20:46):
you because, again, thatinvestment is going to pay
dividends down the line.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, it's like the quote sacrifice now so you don't
have to sacrifice later thing.
Yeah, it's definitely veryvalid, especially early on when
you have to be in both in thebusiness and on it at the same
time.
How can people for someoneworking like service to service
B2B, what would some tips yougive them to help them have
(21:13):
guardrails up so they don't gettoo far off to sacrifice their
emotional stability, theirmental health?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
So one of the biggest thing is looking for a mentor
and an advisor.
Don't look kind of like youlook with social media.
Social media, we all post thebest and brightest generally,
but we don't post our failures.
We don't post when things aretough.
Those are the ones that youprobably actually want to find
as your advisors.
(21:45):
You want to find the person inyour service industry that
they're able to take a vacationfor two, three, four weeks at a
time and their business stilloperates and runs.
You don't want the personthat's posting all these late
night photos and doing all thislate night work because, again,
(22:05):
is the business revolving aroundthem or does the business
operate outside of them?
You want to find people in yourprofession, in your area, that
are running a true business,that they're not just running a
hobby that kind of revolvesaround themself, and when
they're there, business is great, but when they go away,
nothing's getting done.
That's probably the biggest stepof finding somebody.
(22:25):
That is where you want to be,so that then you can learn to
grow and then, as you grow,maybe you outgrow them.
You find again that next person.
That's where you want to be.
Every time you're alwaysreevaluating your stage of where
you are and finding thosementors at those next levels,
because the way you run a$500,000 business is not the way
you run a million-dollarbusiness.
(22:46):
It's not the way you run a $5million, $10 million and so on.
So as you're growing and asyou're scaling, you have to find
new rooms and new people to bearound, to surround yourself, or
else you're going to kind offall back a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, and I think that's a huge crucial piece is
looking at someone for wherethey are and where you want to
go.
Because, yeah, like you said,so many always see on, social
media really is the positive,like the good stuff.
And, if you can, yeah, I thinkif you can find someone who's a
couple of chapters ahead of youon the journey, that's the most
(23:21):
important thing, because, yeah,if someone's not doing what you
want to do, then why reallylisten to them?
So, with that, how do you, youknow you don't, you don't, you
don't, you don't, you don't, youdon't do traditional marketing.
You don't run ads, things likethat.
You do word of mouth.
Is there any place you think inthe future, or maybe you are
(23:43):
utilizing social media at allfor your firm?
That's not maybe to gainclients, but is there still a
piece to be had within that foryou?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Social media definitely has its place.
You can still target a lot ofthings to lawyers.
We have a large portion of ourwebsite specifically geared
towards other personal injurylawyers.
We give away a lot of ourtemplates because, again, my
thought is, a rising tide raisesall ships.
I think that our work productis very good.
(24:14):
I'm willing to share that withanybody else that wants it.
They get inserted into a dripcampaign and inserted into our
funnel and maybe they can becomea client of ours.
Maybe not, but we're stillgiving.
Because, again, the wholethought of the more you give,
the more you're going to getback.
You can't constantly bepitching and selling and taking.
(24:35):
You have to offer something.
You have to be a source oftruth, a source of authority,
and you don't get that by justdumping a bunch of money in
Google machine.
You can, but at the same time,I think the longer play of
building an organic base isreally from that giving area.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, oh, 100%.
I agree on that.
I think you get the most returnthe more you give.
I like that.
You mentioned that you stilluse basically lead magnet with
your templates and things likethat, giving that value, and
then they get into your dripcampaign from your perspective,
because everyone comes out ofdifferent with their drip
campaigns or their emailsequences Is there a secret
(25:16):
sauce you found so far, we sendout seven emails and then you
buy the fifth one.
Is the gold mine that peopleactually schedule a card.
Is there a number that you'veseen by chance?
I'm just curious with that.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
No, I mean it's variable.
We have seen success since wereally gone back in time almost.
We used to use really fancyemails with all cool graphics
and backgrounds.
Now they're super short, butthey're just very simple, very
(25:53):
genuine emails.
Yeah, it doesn't come off asselling, it just comes off hey,
here's some cool information.
By the way, if you'd like more,if you see some value in this,
let's just have a free strategysession.
Let's just chat, let's justtalk.
Hey, you want me to take youout to lunch?
I'll come take you out to lunch.
That's literally it Again.
We've still built it outthrough six or seven different
(26:17):
series in the email campaigns,but I think those have actually
had more of a response asopposed to the high quality,
high production emails whichsometimes comes off as just
selling right from the get go.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, that's a good thought to think about too.
Keeping it simple, I think, andyou can always improve as you
go and add little things.
Plus those listening a lot ofthem are wearing a lot of hats,
so a simpler email to create, atleast to get it out there, will
be better than trying to makeit really fancy and not doing it
because there's too many thingsyou're trying to click on.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Oh yeah, no, you make a wonderful point.
It's so easy to just get sofocused on refining it and
making sure that it's perfect.
Perfection never gets done, itnever gets sent out.
Just do something.
Put it out there and then testit and then see what works, and
then if it doesn't okay, thenyou can adjust and adapt.
(27:11):
But if you wait for perfection,you're never going to start.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
For sure, oh, so good there.
So, james, if someone'sstarting out service-based
business-to-business, they'retrying to gain traction, what
would be the one tip besidesnetworking with people that you
would give them to help themgrow?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
I think it's going to transcend both businesses, from
whether you're B2B or whetheryou're B2C.
The most important thing Iwould focus on is what are your
core values?
What do you and your companystand for?
And if you can come up and havea set and say this is what we
stand for, this is what we, asXYZ company, this is what we're
(27:55):
going to offer, this is whatwe're going to deliver, this is
what we're going to stand for,and roll that out to your whole
team and get your teams buy-in.
And then everything goes back tothose decisions.
It makes everything easierbecause, rather than your time
having to be wrapped up inanswering everyone's question,
it's just everyone gets directed.
All right, do I have a question?
(28:16):
Go back to the core values.
Does this further or accomplishone of the core values?
If yes, do it.
If not, don't, do it.
And then, all of a sudden, youstart building a company that
means something, that stands forsomething, as opposed to just
necessarily delivering a service.
I think that really can helpevery business scale infinitely
(28:38):
by having strong core values andbrand promises that are
objective, that everyone whetherthey're internal or their
clients or their potentialclients, or they're just anybody
that's out there they can seeand look at and say I know what
this company now stands for.
I think that goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah, I love that and I couldn't agree more on that.
So, james, this has been greatconversation.
I've really appreciated youtaking time out to speak to all
this and if you provided somegreat value to the listeners, I
know.
So.
I know I've learned from you.
So, again, if people are tryingto connect with you, want to
learn more from you, where's thebest place for them to go?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Best place to go is our website, and we've got a
toll-free number as well.
It's 833-4-The-WIN.
That's also our URL.
Or you can also look it up atGeorgia Trial Attorneys.
That's our name, gtakgcom.
You can find us on the internet.
You can call us.
You can set up a free strategysession with me.
I'm happy to talk with anybody.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Awesome.
If you guys need James or justwant to keep learning from them,
definitely get connected.
Again, James, thanks so muchfor being on the Elevate Media
Podcast today.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Thanks, Chris.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Thank you for listening to the Elevate Media
Podcast.
Don't forget to subscribe andleave a review.
See you in the next episode.
Thank you for watching.
(30:35):
Thank you for watching.
(31:05):
Thank you for watching.
(31:35):
Thank you for watching.
(32:05):
Thank you for watching.
(32:35):
Thank you for watching.
(33:05):
Thank you for watching.
(33:35):
Thank you for watching.
(34:05):
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(34:35):
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(35:05):
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(35:35):
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(36:05):
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(36:35):
Thank you for watching.
Welcome to the Elevate Media podcast with your
host, Chris Anderson.
In this show, Chris and hisguests will share their
knowledge and experience on howto go from zero to successful
entrepreneur.
They have built theirbusinesses from scratch and are
now ready to give back to thosewho are just starting.
Let's get ready to learn, growand elevate our businesses.
And now your host, ChrisAnderson.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right, welcome to another recording of the
Elevate Media podcast.
I am Chris Anderson, your host,and today I'm going to have to
be careful what I say, becausewe're talking to a lawyer.
No, I'm just kidding, but weare talking to a lawyer.
We got James Grant on the showtoday.
We're going to dive into hisjourney of how he's built his
successful law firm and how he'sdone it a little bit out of the
(00:55):
ordinary.
So, james, welcome to theElevate Media podcast today.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hey, chris, thanks for having me.
You don't have to be worried, Iwon't hold you to the line too
much with your words, words arekind of a big deal in my line of
work.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, absolutely so.
You know what even got you intothis line of work, you know,
with personal energy andlitigation, lawyer stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Man, my story has taken so many different turns.
I went from being a civilengineer to thinking I was going
to do patent law, to ending upin a firm that did every type of
law there was, to running myown firm and finding a narrow
focus to where we help otherpersonal injury lawyers make
more money faster and with lessstress.
So it's been a wild journey tocome to the niche that we've
(01:34):
ended on.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, and that's an interesting sector.
It's something I one I didn'treally even realize was a thing.
So you help other lawyers withcases, right?
Am I tracking on that?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
No, I mean.
So that's exactly how it worksand that's a common
misconception because a lot ofpeople, especially when they get
in an accident, they call thename and number that they you
know here on the radio, they seeon the buses, on the billboards
, tv, radio, all that stuff.
And those firms are actuallyreally good at the first part of
a case.
There's two phases to apersonal injury case.
You have a pre litigation phasewhere most of the time the
(02:09):
insurance company is able toresolve the case.
But there's some cases wherethe insurance company doesn't do
the right thing and the onlyway to move it forward is to
file a lawsuit.
And if a law firm is runninglike a business and they've got
a great business flow forhandling those pre litigation
cases a lot of time, it's morevaluable to them and the client
(02:30):
if they stay in that lane andthen our firm actually helps
them and their clients becausethat's all we do as well.
So we're kind of just tag,teaming the case together in
different stages and really ableto maximize recovery on a lot
of different ends.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh wow.
So they're basically, when theyget this point, it's kind of
outside of their bread andbutter, their sweet spot.
They kind of outsource or theyteam up with you guys and you
come in and you get yourspecialty and you get things
done.
So it's a win-win-win really.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Oh yeah no it's a win-win for the client 100%,
because they're getting aspecialist number one in that
first stage and then, when itcomes to litigation, they're
getting a litigation specialistand team of trial attorneys
where that's all we do andthat's what we're good at.
So it's one of those dealswhere, well, when you go to the
doctor, you want to have aspecialist along the way.
You don't necessarily want tohave your primary care physician
(03:22):
doing an operation.
They're going to refer you outto the specialist and it's the
same way it works with us.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Okay, interesting.
So how is that starting out?
Because I don't know.
But is that just like a normalthing?
Is there a kickback from otherlaw firms that like, oh, I don't
want to work with someone else?
Like, what did that look likestarting out to build these
relationships?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, I mean.
So this is something that's notsuper common.
We are a I don't like to sayunicorn, because no one in
business is a unicorn.
Everyone kind of is goingthrough the same stuff.
But we have a very, very, verylarge market share and we have a
unique value proposition thatdifferentiates us from a lot of
the competition that we mighthave in this space.
(04:06):
But there are personal injurylaw firms out there that do what
we do and we kind of call itreferral work.
Another attorney is going torefer us a case and then we're
going to litigate it and we'regoing to resolve it for them,
but within what we've done.
When any type of business istrying to set themselves apart,
you can't sit back and be like,well, I give the greatest
(04:26):
service and my clients love me.
That's not objective.
No one cares about that stuff.
You have to have somethingthat's objective, that's an
offering that they can look andsay, oh, when I compare you to
this firm, you are objectivelydifferent.
Our difference maker was that ifwe're going to set out to truly
help other law firms, then wecan't compete with them.
At the same time, Ourcommitment to our partners is
(04:49):
we're not going to spend anymoney on digital ads, Facebook,
Google, billboards, buses, radio, TV none of that stuff because
we're not actually going to goafter your clients being the
people that are injured in anaccident today.
We want the case that you can'tresolve.
So that way we're building asymbiotic relationship as
opposed to working a case with afirm and a partner will split
(05:12):
the fee, but then I take thatmoney and invest it in a pre-let
campaign to where now I'mcompeting with them and also
using their money to drive uptheir cost of acquisition.
So when we cut that out, wekind of created a very large
market share with no one reallywants to hop in our space
because they see the bright andshiny objects over here of the
new cases and we just want tobuild relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Got you.
So you basically said, hey,we're not going to, we're not
trying to take out the middleman like we want you to still be
there, and we're just kind ofan extension of what you do.
Yep, you save money withmarketing that way, because it's
all kind of word of mouth,referral and, of course,
probably reaching out to firms.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh, yes, no, our marketing has taken on an
entirely different plan.
Personal law firms are veryfocused on a lot of the digital
outreach, because that's reallyhow you get the most exposure to
people.
You have your network of closefamily friends, former clients,
current clients, and that cansustain a lot of firms.
(06:14):
But once you start getting intothe millions of dollars in
revenue, you really have tostart spending a lot of money in
the digital space to acquirethose new leads and qualify them
in that With us.
We're now a B2B businessdevelopment marketing firm,
effectively on the marketingside.
So it's all about buildingrelationships with other lawyers
(06:35):
and that's you're going tobreakfast, going to lunch, going
and playing golf, going to ballgames, doing other things with
other lawyers so they canestablish that no like and trust
because that's who you dobusiness with.
So it's entirely different thanmost other lawyers when you
think of how other lawyersmarket.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, and I like that perspective.
So you mentioned like taking aball game, taking the golf,
taking breakfast.
How do you approach theseindividuals for those listening
who might have never done a coldoutreach or try to connect with
someone new that's within theirtarget market as far as an
audience like especially B2Bwith service?
You know, how did you kind ofwalk that journey with them to
(07:16):
get them even on the golf course, you know, because that's I
mean I love golf and so, yeah, Imean what's your process there?
Is it just kind of like hey, Ihave this offer, we do this, or
do you approach it in adifferent way?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So a lot of it is.
There's definitely a lot ofeffectively cold calling, cold
emailing, but at the same timeyou have to leverage your
network as well.
Even though there's not a lotof other personal injury lawyers
in the state of Georgia,there's still several thousand.
So there's a lot of prospectsjust in my state and there's
(07:48):
actually lawyers that are in allthe surrounding region that
still practice in Georgia.
Because, for instance, a clientmay live in South Carolina but
they work in Georgia.
They get injured on the way towork in Georgia but they go home
and they call their lawyer inSouth Carolina.
That can happen, but if theyneed litigation they'll call me.
So there's a lot of people thatare out there.
But you have to be able toleverage first your close
(08:10):
connections, and that's where westarted, probably for the first
year, year and a half of doingthis is just leveraging our
connections, because once youget into somebody else's room,
then you get access to theirroom and their room and their
room and all of a sudden you nowhave the ability to say well, I
know John, and John introducedme to Fred and Fred introduced
(08:32):
me to Jennifer and Jennifer.
So that way you're building thetimeline to the people that
you're connecting with, asopposed to just the true cold
calls and cold emails where it'slike who is this person?
So that's really probably thebiggest thing in the B2B space
is leveraging connections,because connections start to
build that know, like and trustfaster, as opposed to just cold
(08:53):
emails, cold calls.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah.
So with that do you kind ofjust as you're connecting with
people hey, you wanna just goplay golf?
And then of course in thoseconversations it just comes up,
hey, what do you do?
Kind of thing.
It's not like as a directconversation.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, I mean, and also you have to think about it
from the perspective of what'sin it for me.
Everyone that you're pitching,so to speak, is they have to sit
back and be like, well, whywould I do this?
What am I gonna get out of it?
So you have to offer something,and generally the offer is
something simple as hey, let metake you out to lunch, let me go
buy you lunch, let me go buy abreakfast, and then from there
you can, at least in a 45 hourhour and a half conversation,
(09:31):
you can figure out pretty quickif you're gonna make a
connection with this person.
And it's not to say that youhave to have a connection on a
personal level with everyonethat you do business with.
But those are obviously gonnabe your strongest leads, those
are gonna be your strongestrelationships for the future,
because, again, this is along-term play.
This isn't something whereyou're looking for a quick pop
of hey, I want this one-timecustomer and then that's it.
(09:53):
You're looking for the lifetimevalue, especially on the B2B
side of business.
So, with that, the people thatyou have the strongest
connection with andrelationships with are the ones
that you pursue the easiest andjust give them something that,
hey, here, here's a free meal.
What?
70 bucks for a nice lunchsomewhere?
I mean, it's not that much, butit at least gives you the
(10:15):
offering to figure out what theydo, how you can work together.
And then from there, hey, let'sgo play golf the next week.
Or hey, let's go to this ballgame.
Or do you like this concert?
Hey, come to the concert, let'sgo, let's go, and stuff like
that.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, and I think it's good to look at it from
that perspective, because I knowa lot of people they just try
to push like right away, like Iget a lot of messages on
LinkedIn that's like, hey, Ithink you would like this is
what we do.
I'm like you don't even ask,like you don't even know, like
it's just a straight pitch outof the gate and that's just like
when I see those, I just eitherdelete them or don't respond,
(10:48):
because it's like it doesn'twork that way.
We wanna build a relationship,like you're saying, and that's
why I love podcasting too,because I mean you just are
trying to learn from someone.
You're kind of putting them onthe pedestal to your audience,
and it opens the door to build arelationship and be able to
just see what everyone's about,which I think is another great
tool as well.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Well, I think at the same time you make the point of
you have different people acrossdifferent service industries.
It's really easy for me as alawyer to go talk to another
lawyer because we automaticallyhave something in common right
there.
Even if I'm a CPA, I go toanother CPA.
We've been through that sameexam, we've done the same thing,
so we understand each other, atleast conceptually.
(11:31):
So it makes that introductionand hey, what's wrong with
another CPA taking another CPAto lunch?
So, like when you start doingthings within your own service
industry, you automatically havea leg up on everyone else.
Because, to your point ofLinkedIn, if some just random
marketer deems me on LinkedIn asopposed to another lawyer, well
, hey, I mean at least gonnathrow something behind that,
(11:53):
because maybe they havesomething to actually offer as
opposed to this unknown quantity.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, so when you're starting out with that, I mean
that's something that'sobviously learned, excuse me,
learned along the way.
Did you have any of thosemoments where You're like this
isn't working, Something's gotto give, We've got to shift
something.
And what was that?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, I mean, it's not necessarily the process, but
it's the plan.
A lot of times and we've beenwith a business coach since 2018
, and it's been the greatestthing ever but sometimes we just
fall off the wagon, so to speak, and we don't plan things out
like we should.
And in this instance, we'rekind of like, well, this is just
going to work, it's going to befine, and we didn't truly plan,
(12:39):
we didn't have the true inputof all the data that we needed
to where, when we finally madesome adjustments, we're like oh,
if we were to just look back,we would have seen that we
should have made this adjustmentsix months ago, and it's just
little things like that.
But it all comes down toplanning and tracking and being
able to pivot, because if youdon't do that, then you really
(13:00):
just are going on kind of gutand feel, and that never works
in the end.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, you could be taking action, you could be
taking initiative on it, but onthe wrong things set in the
wrong ways.
So I think, yeah, I think one,like you said, I had a business
coach, having a mentor, havesomebody that can kind of
externally say, hey well, thatdoesn't seem to be doing the
right thing, and then being ableto pivot and shift and adapt,
as you guys think.
That's a good one to think on,because on our journey you never
(13:26):
know what's going to come.
You never know what's going tohappen.
Like who would have thoughtChatGPT would have done what it
did and blew up?
And there's so much stuff goingon in the world you never know
what's next.
So along your journey, I'm surehas ChatGPT done anything crazy
within your industry?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Man, I love AI.
This stuff is phenomenal.
It's amazing.
It is going to revolutionizethe legal industry.
Now, with that, it's going tocause a lot of problems Because
it's going to put a whole lot ofpeople out of business Because
there's so many, and especiallywith lawyers.
Lawyers are notorious forhating technology, hating
(14:08):
financial controls and metricsand objective science, Just
because we like the practice oflaw, and the practice of law is
very consistent.
But when you throw in thesedisruptors, a lot of people just
get scared.
And I'm seeing the writing onthe wall six months a year ago
where it's like we have to hopon this train now Because if we
(14:31):
adapt AI into our firm, we'regoing to be light years ahead of
the firms that adapt it withinthe next two, three, four or
five years, and even theinsurance companies as well.
Those suckers move super, superslow.
They're still operating onsystems from the early 2000s.
So if we can get an advantage,bring it on.
But yeah, I love this stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, I saw a video the other day someone talking
about that.
Well, he's on the Joe Roganpodcast.
I forget the guest's name, buthe was saying how he went to
ChatGPT and he had a couple ofquestions that he was going to
ask his lawyer.
And he asked the same thing toChatGPT and then he called his
lawyer, which charges $600 perhour or whatever in his case,
and he said that the answerswere eerily similar.
(15:14):
He's like well, there goes oneexpense I don't have to do, and
I'm like man, that's crazy.
And I didn't know, from yourperspective, if you see that as
a negative or even like aslippery slope for people who
want to utilize that versusactually calling a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So I think for other lawyers potentially that is
super scary, but it gets us awayfrom the hourly billing model
where we just have to milk cases.
Now my firm we don't do hourlybilling, so that's not
necessarily a problem for us.
But when you're billing hourlya lot of times you're paying for
(15:53):
routine, for administrativethings that can be automated,
that can be delegated, that youcan use AI to help speed up the
process, because really we'reall about objective results.
When you hire a lawyer, youaren't paying for the time that
they put in.
You aren't paying for anythingother than give me this desired
result and actually the moreefficient you make the process
(16:17):
and the quicker you're able todeliver a result, the better
your firm, the better yourclients, the better everyone's
going to be off.
So that's why I think theimplementation of this is really
going to be a disrupter in thelegal field.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's definitely an interesting thing.
It suddenly shakes stuff up ina lot of things and, like you
said, if you're not on board, ifyou don't utilize this as a
tool, it is you're going to getleft behind, which is crazy.
So shift gears a little bitwith that.
I'm curious on your journey,have you ever had any moments
that were kind of like that kickin the gut, that win knocked
(16:52):
out at any moment, where you'relike, oh my gosh, are we going
to be able to rebound from this?
I never saw that coming.
I don't know your story aboutpeople with partners or trusting
someone and it backfires, and Idon't know if you've had any
random moments like that withinyour journey.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I mean, there have been moments where you look at
the situation and you're like,how did we get here, or what
controls did we not put in placeto end up along this way?
Fortunately, I'm in apartnership with my business
partner since 2015 and we're ina great relationship and there's
(17:30):
not many especially in thelegal field.
There's not many law firms thathave partnerships that last for
a long time, just because a lotof lawyers tend to be very
aggressive in their approach ofthey know how to do everything
the right way and they're thesource of all truth where Mark
and I have learned that he'sgood at this, I'm good at that,
we're able to come together on alot of things, and so being
(17:53):
able to have a trusted businesspartner and then surrounding
yourself with trusted businessadvisors, it helps you to make
smarter, objective decisions.
But, yeah, early on, we hadabsolutely no clue what we were
doing.
That's with most people andmost service industries anyway,
because we go to school, we aretrained how to do something, how
(18:16):
to think like a lawyer and someof how to practice law, but
we're given no business skills.
So that's really where most ofour failings were.
Obviously, we were still ableto generate revenue and grow our
firm.
But we didn't do it the rightway at all.
I mean, we were falling into themantra of, oh, I'm working 80
(18:36):
hours a week and I'm workingthese late nights serving my
clients.
Then when you sit back and lookback and it's like no, that's
not a badge of honor to wear,then if you actually talk with
an individual that's thinkingthat and talk with their client
and ask them the question ofwell, who would you want working
your case?
Do you want the attorney thatgot eight hours of rest and had
(18:57):
a meal with their family and isfeeling emotionally well and has
good mental health, or do youwant the attorney that's working
80, 90 hours, wearing it as abadge of honor, working your
case?
Will you ask them that question?
They say obviously I want theattorney that has strong mental
health.
But in the service industry wedon't think like that.
We think it's great to bepushing ourselves beyond what
we're really capable of doingand thinking that's somehow
(19:19):
going to actually benefitourselves and our clients.
That's probably where we made alot of feelings early on.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, how did you shift that?
Obviously, because I feel likethat is a badge of honor.
How did you go and actuallymake those shifts?
Was it tough to make that shift?
Did it take some time?
Or was it just like, hey, we'rechanging this because this is
not how we want to be and youjust implemented it?
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, that was the first three years of our lives.
Okay, when we started coachingin 2018, that's what really
helped us and changed us.
I tell everybody that'sinterested in coaching is, if
you have started a business andare in that business and then
you later bring on a coach, it'sgoing to suck Like there's
nothing that's going to be funabout it, because you go from
(20:04):
working in your businessgenerally a lot of hours let's
say you're working 60 hours aweek.
That's a lot of time thatyou're devoting to that business
Then you bring on a businesscoach.
Guess what?
You're still working 60 hours aweek in your business and now
you have to learn to work onyour business another 20 hours.
Your time requirement goes upexponentially.
(20:25):
There has to be a buy-in foryou, for your family, for your
team, for those that are aroundyou that are going to support
you through it, because for thefirst 6 to 18 months it's going
to suck, yeah, but for the usingthe cliche term of your
investing in your future self,if you make that early
investment in yourself, yourfuture self is going to thank
(20:46):
you because, again, thatinvestment is going to pay
dividends down the line.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, it's like the quote sacrifice now so you don't
have to sacrifice later thing.
Yeah, it's definitely veryvalid, especially early on when
you have to be in both in thebusiness and on it at the same
time.
How can people for someoneworking like service to service
B2B, what would some tips yougive them to help them have
(21:13):
guardrails up so they don't gettoo far off to sacrifice their
emotional stability, theirmental health?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
So one of the biggest thing is looking for a mentor
and an advisor.
Don't look kind of like youlook with social media.
Social media, we all post thebest and brightest generally,
but we don't post our failures.
We don't post when things aretough.
Those are the ones that youprobably actually want to find
as your advisors.
(21:45):
You want to find the person inyour service industry that
they're able to take a vacationfor two, three, four weeks at a
time and their business stilloperates and runs.
You don't want the personthat's posting all these late
night photos and doing all thislate night work because, again,
(22:05):
is the business revolving aroundthem or does the business
operate outside of them?
You want to find people in yourprofession, in your area, that
are running a true business,that they're not just running a
hobby that kind of revolvesaround themself, and when
they're there, business is great, but when they go away,
nothing's getting done.
That's probably the biggest stepof finding somebody.
(22:25):
That is where you want to be,so that then you can learn to
grow and then, as you grow,maybe you outgrow them.
You find again that next person.
That's where you want to be.
Every time you're alwaysreevaluating your stage of where
you are and finding thosementors at those next levels,
because the way you run a$500,000 business is not the way
you run a million-dollarbusiness.
(22:46):
It's not the way you run a $5million, $10 million and so on.
So as you're growing and asyou're scaling, you have to find
new rooms and new people to bearound, to surround yourself, or
else you're going to kind offall back a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, and I think that's a huge crucial piece is
looking at someone for wherethey are and where you want to
go.
Because, yeah, like you said,so many always see on, social
media really is the positive,like the good stuff.
And, if you can, yeah, I thinkif you can find someone who's a
couple of chapters ahead of youon the journey, that's the most
(23:21):
important thing, because, yeah,if someone's not doing what you
want to do, then why reallylisten to them?
So, with that, how do you, youknow you don't, you don't, you
don't, you don't, you don't, youdon't do traditional marketing.
You don't run ads, things likethat.
You do word of mouth.
Is there any place you think inthe future, or maybe you are
(23:43):
utilizing social media at allfor your firm?
That's not maybe to gainclients, but is there still a
piece to be had within that foryou?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Social media definitely has its place.
You can still target a lot ofthings to lawyers.
We have a large portion of ourwebsite specifically geared
towards other personal injurylawyers.
We give away a lot of ourtemplates because, again, my
thought is, a rising tide raisesall ships.
I think that our work productis very good.
(24:14):
I'm willing to share that withanybody else that wants it.
They get inserted into a dripcampaign and inserted into our
funnel and maybe they can becomea client of ours.
Maybe not, but we're stillgiving.
Because, again, the wholethought of the more you give,
the more you're going to getback.
You can't constantly bepitching and selling and taking.
(24:35):
You have to offer something.
You have to be a source oftruth, a source of authority,
and you don't get that by justdumping a bunch of money in
Google machine.
You can, but at the same time,I think the longer play of
building an organic base isreally from that giving area.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, oh, 100%.
I agree on that.
I think you get the most returnthe more you give.
I like that.
You mentioned that you stilluse basically lead magnet with
your templates and things likethat, giving that value, and
then they get into your dripcampaign from your perspective,
because everyone comes out ofdifferent with their drip
campaigns or their emailsequences Is there a secret
(25:16):
sauce you found so far, we sendout seven emails and then you
buy the fifth one.
Is the gold mine that peopleactually schedule a card.
Is there a number that you'veseen by chance?
I'm just curious with that.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
No, I mean it's variable.
We have seen success since wereally gone back in time almost.
We used to use really fancyemails with all cool graphics
and backgrounds.
Now they're super short, butthey're just very simple, very
(25:53):
genuine emails.
Yeah, it doesn't come off asselling, it just comes off hey,
here's some cool information.
By the way, if you'd like more,if you see some value in this,
let's just have a free strategysession.
Let's just chat, let's justtalk.
Hey, you want me to take youout to lunch?
I'll come take you out to lunch.
That's literally it Again.
We've still built it outthrough six or seven different
(26:17):
series in the email campaigns,but I think those have actually
had more of a response asopposed to the high quality,
high production emails whichsometimes comes off as just
selling right from the get go.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, that's a good thought to think about too.
Keeping it simple, I think, andyou can always improve as you
go and add little things.
Plus those listening a lot ofthem are wearing a lot of hats,
so a simpler email to create, atleast to get it out there, will
be better than trying to makeit really fancy and not doing it
because there's too many thingsyou're trying to click on.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Oh yeah, no, you make a wonderful point.
It's so easy to just get sofocused on refining it and
making sure that it's perfect.
Perfection never gets done, itnever gets sent out.
Just do something.
Put it out there and then testit and then see what works, and
then if it doesn't okay, thenyou can adjust and adapt.
(27:11):
But if you wait for perfection,you're never going to start.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
For sure, oh, so good there.
So, james, if someone'sstarting out service-based
business-to-business, they'retrying to gain traction, what
would be the one tip besidesnetworking with people that you
would give them to help themgrow?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
I think it's going to transcend both businesses, from
whether you're B2B or whetheryou're B2C.
The most important thing Iwould focus on is what are your
core values?
What do you and your companystand for?
And if you can come up and havea set and say this is what we
stand for, this is what we, asXYZ company, this is what we're
(27:55):
going to offer, this is whatwe're going to deliver, this is
what we're going to stand for,and roll that out to your whole
team and get your teams buy-in.
And then everything goes back tothose decisions.
It makes everything easierbecause, rather than your time
having to be wrapped up inanswering everyone's question,
it's just everyone gets directed.
All right, do I have a question?
(28:16):
Go back to the core values.
Does this further or accomplishone of the core values?
If yes, do it.
If not, don't, do it.
And then, all of a sudden, youstart building a company that
means something, that stands forsomething, as opposed to just
necessarily delivering a service.
I think that really can helpevery business scale infinitely
(28:38):
by having strong core values andbrand promises that are
objective, that everyone whetherthey're internal or their
clients or their potentialclients, or they're just anybody
that's out there they can seeand look at and say I know what
this company now stands for.
I think that goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah, I love that and I couldn't agree more on that.
So, james, this has been greatconversation.
I've really appreciated youtaking time out to speak to all
this and if you provided somegreat value to the listeners, I
know.
So.
I know I've learned from you.
So, again, if people are tryingto connect with you, want to
learn more from you, where's thebest place for them to go?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Best place to go is our website, and we've got a
toll-free number as well.
It's 833-4-The-WIN.
That's also our URL.
Or you can also look it up atGeorgia Trial Attorneys.
That's our name, gtakgcom.
You can find us on the internet.
You can call us.
You can set up a free strategysession with me.
I'm happy to talk with anybody.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Awesome.
If you guys need James or justwant to keep learning from them,
definitely get connected.
Again, James, thanks so muchfor being on the Elevate Media
Podcast today.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Thanks, Chris.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Thank you for listening to the Elevate Media
Podcast.
Don't forget to subscribe andleave a review.
See you in the next episode.
Thank you for watching.
(30:35):
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(35:35):
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(36:05):
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(36:35):
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