August 14, 2025 • 59 mins
Lori Longfritz shares the extraordinary story of her brother John Chapman, a US Air Force Combat Controller who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor 16 years after being left for dead on an Afghan mountaintop where he continued fighting alone for over an hour.
• John Chapman was a compassionate, brave individual from childhood who stood up to bullies and showed kindness to everyone
• The battle on Takur Ghar Mountain was part of a larger operation where Chapman was embedded with a SEAL Team Six unit
• After being wounded and mistakenly reported as dead, Chapman regained consciousness and continued fighting alone
• Multiple attempts by the family to have Chapman's Air Force Cross upgraded were blocked for years
• Video evidence from a CIA drone and AC-130 gunship ultimately proved Chapman's continued fight after being left behind
• Chapman was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor in 2018, making him the first enlisted Air Force recipient since Vietnam
• Lori describes institutional resistance and attempts to suppress the truth about what happened on the mountain
• The First There Foundation now supports combat controllers and other military/first responders with mental health resources
Visit FirstThere.org to learn more about the foundation's work supporting military personnel, law enforcement and first responders. Both books about John Chapman's story are available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
She's the voice behind the viral comedy, bold
commentary and truth-packedinterviews that cut through the
chaos.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Author, brand creator , proud conservative Christian.
This is Elsa Kurt.
Welcome to the show that alwaysbrings bold faith, real truth
and no apologies.
Well, hey, my friends, welcomefor a very special interview.
Special episode we're going tohave Lori Longfritz on.
So here's the backstory InMarch of 2002, us Air Force
(00:31):
Combat Controller John Chapmanwas left behind on a mountaintop
in Afghanistan.
He was wounded, alone andsurrounded, and he continued to
fight for over an hour toprotect the very teammates who
had unknowingly retreatedwithout him.
He died saving lives that day,and for years, that part of the
(00:51):
story remained buried, disputedand, in some circles,
deliberately ignored.
It took 16 years, a mountain ofevidence and the unrelenting
advocacy of his family,especially his sister Lori, for
the truth to be formallyrecognized.
In 2018, john Chapman wasposthumously awarded the Medal
(01:11):
of Honor.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
We're gathered together this afternoon to pay
tribute to a fallen warrior, agreat warrior, Technical
Sergeant John Chapman, and toaward him our nation's highest
and most revered military honor.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But, as Lori will tell you, that wasn't the end of
the fight and in many ways, itwas just the beginning.
So join me in welcoming Loriwith us today.
Hi, lori, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thanks, elsa, thanks for havingme, absolutely.
So.
You know it's such anincredible story and you know I
really want to start by sayingthank you to John, of course,
(01:53):
and to your family, for, youknow, a sacrifice that so many
of us are so fortunate to notever have to experience.
So we thank you for that andwe're sorry for that for your
family, for what they've gonethrough and what they're still
going through, what you're goingthrough.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thank you.
We never expected it reallyeither, because John was just
growing up and you know he, he Idon't want to say he never
failed at anything, but if hestruggled with something he
pushed through until he made itand so, so, and we didn't know
what combat control was.
We had no idea a lot of most ofwhat he was doing in that
capacity.
So I think for most of us, ifnot all of us, we just assumed
(02:34):
that he would always be fine,you know, and so we never
thought we would be, you know,the ones getting the knock on
the door.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So yeah, I would imagine that you know you would
have never imagined yourselfbeing in the spotlight, so to
speak, and doing what you'redoing.
It changed everybody's lives inyour family, and in so many
different ways, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, it sure did.
It changed all of us, you know,and we initially, when it all
happened, we, my mom and I, werethe only ones left in Windsor
Locks and you know we tried tobe private like we didn't want
to make do interviews and things.
But we were basically told well, you know, if you don't do
interviews, then we'll just comeup with whatever we want to say
.
You know, we'll interviewsomeone who may have known him
(03:20):
for five minutes or you know,something along those lines.
So you know, we were almostpretty much forced into, you
know, giving interviews and youknow, and exposing our pain
right there in front ofeverybody.
So you know, I thought that waskind of kind of crappy.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But yeah, yeah, it absolutely is.
And you know, and I rant aboutthis regularly, about the
behavior of mainstream media andso-called journalists, and you
know, and all of these people,the integrity of all of it is in
has declined to, you know, tojust just a deplorable degree,
and I'm sorry your familyexperienced that too.
(03:56):
I want to ask you you know so,so many of us who know John's
story, we, we know him as a heroLike that is our only
understanding and knowledge ofhim.
I would love, if you wouldn'tmind, could you share a moment
that kind of shows who he was,and I love the things I've seen,
some things you've said abouthim.
Tell us a little bit about John, the brother, the guy, the son,
(04:21):
the friend.
What was he like?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
guy, the son, the friend what was he like oh?
my gosh, how much time do youhave?
We grew up in the 70s basically70s, 80s and back in a time
where I think even adultswouldn't insist on the kids
accepting everybody for whateverthey brought to the table.
And John was ahead of his timein that he didn't care if it was
(04:47):
cool to be seen with a certainperson or you know, um, he, just
he.
He had a lot of compassion forfor most people.
Um, he would stand up againstbullies, for, you know, kids who
couldn't defend themselves.
Um had a neighbor, family,friends they're our family and
(05:08):
they had a handicapped daughterand even at 12 years old, john
would just disappear.
We'd all be playing outside andhe'd just disappear.
And we'd find him inside thehouse playing with Mary because
she couldn't come outside.
You know she had a lot ofmobility issues and things like
that.
So you know he would justdisappear and go play with her
(05:30):
and you know he was that kind ofkid and I don't know.
I'm sure I've told the storybefore.
I mean it started way back, youknow, from the time he was
probably born, because my momwould.
My mom said that before hecould really talk much at all,
if he saw her upset.
He would just walk up to herand cup her face and say it's OK
, mommy.
I mean, he just had thatcompassion in him.
(05:51):
He stood up to a kindergartenbully when they were all in
kindergarten.
It was the very first day ofschool and I got this story from
little Billy.
Billy was new to this town and,um, it was before school
started.
And billy says I must have saidsomething to piss off maureen
walsh, and, and she punched mein the stomach and she wound up
(06:14):
to punch me again.
And this, this kid, stepped inthe way and it was john.
You know, they're all fiveyears old, you know.
So at five years old, johnstepped in front of you know.
I mean, it was like that's justwho he was.
And he was funny, funny, asmart ass, what a smart ass.
But just a great, great guy.
I mean, I don't want to.
You know, both of all of mysiblings were just great people
(06:37):
that we're talking about Johnhere.
So, yeah, he was just.
He didn't.
I don't think he had like a lotof inner circle friends, but
when he pulled you in, it meant,you know, he really saw
something in you or he wantedyou near him, um, and so he did
have some really good friendsthere um growing up.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's beautiful I, you know I I love
that.
Did.
Um, I would imagine that somany people after his passing
came and shared stories.
That's probably.
You know, if there's everanything good to come from such
a tragedy is that.
You know, because we don't justrandomly share great memories
of people with each other, right, and when something like this
(07:20):
happens, it triggers all ofthose memories and people are so
kind to share those memories sothat you get to have them as
well.
Did that?
Is that something that happeneda lot?
Did you get a?
lot of stories that you neverknew.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Absolutely.
It happened a lot.
So I just self-published a bookafter Alone at Dawn.
I have Alone at Dawn first, sothat my co -author I just
self-published first there theLife and Legacy of American Hero
, master Sergeant John Chapman.
It's a mouthful, but it kind ofhad to be.
But in that book I tell about alot of the stories that came
(07:57):
out after he was killed, andstories that even went back all
the way to.
One of them was when he wasaround nine years old, that
somebody just held on to for allthose years and then felt, you
know, I as a mom, I need toshare this with his mom and you
know, so it was a lot of thesestories that came out in, you
know, after he was killed.
(08:17):
That I included in there and um, I'm repeating myself now, but
um, so so yeah, there were lotsof.
Even I think Billy was one ofthe ones that I mean, he told me
that story and I think in 2016,.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You know, it's just those pictures on the, on the
cover, are such a treasure and Iwould imagine there's there's
so many, like every family ofthat era.
Now they all, they it's all ontheir phone.
They got to scroll their phoneto find it, but we're so blessed
to have those actual albums andphysical pictures you can hold
in your hand and look at andthey're such treasures now, I'm
(08:52):
sure, more than ever.
Since we're talking about thebooks, tell me a little bit more
about that one.
I'm so curious about thatactual writing process of it
because I'm sure it had to besuch a mixed bag of emotions,
the sadness, the you know.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe best parts about writing
this book for you and if you'rewilling to share one of the most
(09:16):
difficult parts of it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
The first there.
So that was the book Ioriginally wanted to write.
You know, right out of the gate, as soon as John was gone, I, I
, you know he can't just be afootnote in history Um,
especially that's how they weretelling it initially Um, and so
I wanted to write a book and ittook me 15 years to even I would
start and stop cause I had noidea what I was doing, and um,
(09:42):
and then I got connected with mycoauthor from Alone at Dawn, uh
, dan, and you know, with apartner.
It changed my view, my, my umvision changed entirely, which
is the way it should have.
It needed to happen that way.
But so eventually, after afterAlone at Dawn came out in 2019,
(10:02):
um, I started kind of working onthat again with my husband's,
you know, kind of encouragement,like, hey, when are you going
to sit down and when are yougoing to keep doing this?
So, and it was, I had alreadytalked to a lot of his like
brothers in arms there to getstories about him, cause, you
know, I don't know combatcontrol, I didn't know what
happened in his training oranything after training.
(10:23):
So a lot of them were verygracious enough to sit down with
me and give me some stories andor email me something, and so
that it was really fun to to seeJohn from that perspective,
cause I obviously I knew himgrowing up, I knew him
personally, but I didn't knowhim in the job basically, and so
it was.
It was a lot of fun to hearthose stories and just to hear
(10:45):
how much they respected him, howmuch he had a lot of bona fides
.
He'd walk in the room and youknow I'm not saying every room,
but you know, and a lot ofpeople would say, oh, you know,
he's with Chappie, so he's good,you know.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Chappie that was his nickname.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, yeah, and that was even his nickname growing up
from with his, with his friendsand um, but, yeah, that's what
he I I think after he died, someof the guys were even like, oh
yeah, his name is john, likethey didn't really know, they
just called him chappy, you know.
So, yeah, so it was really.
I think the best part was justhearing stories from other
people, um, that I hadn't heardbefore, or, um, even some some
(11:23):
things from my family membersthat I hadn't either hadn't
heard before, or even some somethings from my family members
that I hadn't either hadn'theard before, or they clarified
it.
You know, it brought it more tolife for me and hopefully in
the book for everyone who readsit.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
But yeah, it's a beautiful thing to have done for
you know, for your own sake,really, you know that's probably
first and foremost for you,your family, john's friends, you
know the people that knew himand then to extend that to us,
for us to get to know him, toknow these things about him.
(11:58):
So what a wonderful thing tohave done to keep his legacy and
, you know, his memory alive.
I think that's so great and asan author, I totally fiction and
nonfiction, so I totally geteverything that you're saying
about that process andeverything that goes into it and
all of those things.
Have those books given you anykind of bug?
(12:21):
I'm just out of curiosity.
This is a random offside,sideways question here.
Does it give?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
a bug for more writing.
Oh yeah, I've always likedwriting.
I've never, you know, I thinkfrom here on out I'll never
write nonfiction again, but Ihave some ideas swirling around
in my head about, you know, forfiction.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That's exciting.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I love that yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
We mentioned the other book with Dan Schilling.
Let's talk about this one alittle bit.
This one actually came outfirst, you said correct?
Yes, yeah, Tell me a little bitabout the process of that, what
we can find inside there too.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
So the process was I mean, I had never written a book
before, so everything was newto me.
Um, the process was, um, it wasinteresting.
It was challenging at times.
Um, you know, um, dan is a verystrong personality.
I mean, he was a combatcontroller too.
I mean, they're all type a, youknow, um, and Dan could pretty
much sell, you know, ice toEskimo.
So you know it was, it wasdefinitely interesting and I
(13:20):
learned a lot of very valuablelessons.
And you know, we went throughour issues, but I think, you
know, we were able to workthrough them and and produce a
really good book.
It was a New York timesbestseller, yes, um, and so it's
basically no one's ever heardof air force combat control, or
(13:42):
at least maybe back then theydidn't.
And, um, even people in the airforce hadn't heard of it, or at
least didn't know much about it.
And so we, we kind of uh, givethe background on how it, how it
kind of started.
Um, the pipeline is the longestand hardest of any of the.
Whether you're looking at deltaseals, whatever pipeline is the
longest and hardest of any ofthe.
Whether you're looking at DeltaSEALs, whatever, it's the
longest of all of them becausecombat controllers and there may
(14:04):
be only one per group have tointegrate with various.
They have to integrate with theSEALs and the Delta and, you
know, sas and all these, evenforeign entities.
So they have to know, they haveto be prepared to be able to
integrate with each one.
It could be day to day, week toweek or hour to hour.
(14:25):
You know, you don't know.
You have to be able to just um,pivot and and, uh, fit right in
.
So there's this longest andhardest, uh, so we talk about
that.
Obviously dan is the one who didall all that, because I
wouldn't have a clue what Johnwent through in the pipeline and
John didn't.
It wasn't easy for him.
You know, that was the firstthing, the first time when I was
(14:45):
, when I was learning about evencombat control myself, like I
didn't know about combat controluntil after he died.
So in writing that book Ilearned a lot more than I had
had before that and I mean Igrew to.
I was so impressed with John,even more so after learning what
they have to go through andwhat they have to know and what
they have to do and and have toknow like high level math.
(15:07):
I'm like high level math.
You know he did.
You know, in high school heprobably had average grades.
You know, I never, you know.
So I was like, wow, littlebrother, I'm pretty impressed
with this um.
So it was nice to, to, to findout that stuff.
But we, so we explained thatand then we kind of go in, we,
and there are some littlestories about john's
interspersed throughout um, justto kind of connect where john
(15:30):
was when this combat control waswas growing um, and then we,
you know, talk about the battleand, um, I have a chapter in
there at the end.
That's.
That's strictly on the Medal ofHonor ceremony in 2018.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
So yeah, yeah, the the book is is a really
fascinating blend of like thethe tactical and the personal
like it's.
It's such a great balancing actbetween the two and and you get
both of those perspectivesreally you know.
So what, what, what you'regetting on the personal side and
then marrying that with all ofthat technical, tactical stuff,
(16:06):
it's like it's almostoverwhelming right for like just
learning all of that going.
Wow, there's just so muchencapsulated in all of this.
And and of course, youmentioned the battle, so I think
it's a great time to go intothat.
So if you could, you know andfeel free to kind of like just
(16:27):
summarize it for everyone, justthe the timeline in the events
of what happened, so we can kindof go into what happens next so
the timeline was, um, thatthere was this big, uh, the
sheikah valley.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
They were the, all the military, they were all
going to be.
There was just going to be thisbig, um, massive, let's, you
know, sweep through here and andget stuff done.
Well, the combat controllershad to find higher ground, so
from from there they could callin airstrikes and they could see
the valley and, uh, and knowwhere to to do that.
So there had to be, you know,uh, they had to find places to
(17:06):
land and things like that.
So john's group, um, he wasembedded with a seal team, six
team, and, um, they didn't haveto go into the mission, they
already had people in place.
Um, and the I don't want to getto go into the mission, they
already had people in place.
And the I don't want to get toodeep into the weeds.
Just, it was a poorly planned,unnecessary mission that the
SEALs pushed because theythought that bin Laden was there
(17:27):
and that they were going to getthe kill.
I mean the ultimate get down tothe brass tacks.
They wanted their you know,we're so wonderful, you, you
know, be able to raise theirflag over his body and um, so,
but they didn't need to go there.
It wasn't a mission that had tohappen.
That night, um, two other sealteam leaders were given the
mission and they said, no, we'renot doing that.
(17:48):
And then john's team leader andI usually say leader, but, um,
that's just me, because I'vegone through this for so many
years I've gotten very cynicalbut, um, yeah, so he accepted it
and he did try to push it 24hours, um, and the leadership
said, no, I, you know, we want,we need to get in it now, we
need to get in the fight.
And so they went and they hadhelicopter issues and things
(18:12):
like that, and so.
So initially they're supposedto land at the base of the
mountain and work their way upand be a surprise that they went
up there.
Um, so, because of, um,helicopter issues and whatnot,
they delayed.
It was delayed for hours, andso the best thing they came up
with was to land on the top ofthe mountain in a chinook, like.
(18:32):
I mean, everybody knew theywere coming.
There's no way to hide that,you know.
Know the sound of it, themassive, you know it's huge.
And so the and they knew theenemy was there.
They were told prior to thatthat the enemy was up there and
they just decided to cowboy itand it's like, well, you know
we're SEALs and you know they'llrun because they know it's us.
But and they didn't, you know.
So they were attacked when, assoon as they were trying to land
(18:53):
, the back was already open andone of the seals, somebody else,
had fallen out and he wastethered.
That guy was tethered, so NeilRoberts tried to pull him back
in and in you know the push pullof trying to bring someone back
in and he wasn't tethered.
You know the guy.
He ended up being pulled outand they were taking RPGs.
(19:14):
So the pilot, and and they weretaking RPGs, so the pilot, not
knowing what was going on in theback, you know, said we got to
get out of here and left.
So they left Neil there, who?
And he was ultimately executedwithin I don't forget how many,
I don't know, it could be 20, 40minutes, I don't know.
I know he did, you know, try tokill them, but he was
(19:35):
surrounded.
But so, anyway, once they crashlanded, they said, well, we
have to go back and get Neil,and John wanted to.
They wanted to leave John withthe, with the crew of that
fallen helicopter, the downedhelicopter and John was like no,
I'm on the team, I'm comingwith you.
But then there were still moredelays because they brought in
(20:01):
another helicopter and pilotsaid oh no, I'm not going back
up there right now, we need togo back and whatever.
So there were still more delaysand um, so then when they went
back the second time and theydid the same thing gonna land
right there where they tried toland before and expecting
different you know whateverresults and uh, they got they
landed.
Um, normally the controller isthe last one out, from what I
understand, um, at this point,because it was all ad hoc and
(20:22):
they just wanted to go find neil.
Uh, the team leader went outfirst post hold into their knee
to thigh deep snow and um, so hepost hold and fell on his face
and john stepped over him andthey were taking fire from you
know, two bunkers.
So he, uh, attack, is the,you're supposed to attack your
attacker.
So he went right after thefirst bunker and killed those
(20:43):
two guys, took over the bunker.
Um, you know, basically therewas all that.
Then, uh, at some point in timethey he and the team leader
went to and the other guys hadcome out and kind of spread out.
Then john, um, went to thesecond bunker.
At some point in time he washit and um, that's when the team
(21:03):
leader split off and met upwith the other guys and they
were like where's chappy?
Oh, he's dead.
But he never checked him, um,so I can't, you know the.
The guys on the mountain werelike okay, well, well, you know,
now we have to go with what wewere just told.
So he told them Chappie's dead.
And so then they egressed, butnot far, because they could
still hear the once I'm blowingthrough all this, skipping a lot
(21:28):
, skipping a lot.
But John came to after maybe 15,20, 30 minutes, I don't know
how long, and started fightingwith the, with the elk.
They tried to, you know, attackhim with whatever they had.
So the team leader had admittedthat he heard what was going up
on the mountain, going on up onthe mountain, and these guys
are elite, they know thedifferent reports from you, know
(21:51):
different weapons, and sothere's no way he didn't know
that that was an american weapon.
Um, they tried to push it offas it was red on red.
Where they were, the enemy werefighting each other or shooting
at each other, but this time itwas daylight.
Well, it was.
It was it was dawn, which islike alone at dawn, you know.
But the sun was coming up andthese guys had been on the
mountain for weeks, months,maybe even years, so they knew
(22:12):
each other.
They weren't going to befighting each other.
And then he said, well, it musthave been them celebrating and
I'm like that's fine, they mightcelebrate for like five minutes
(22:34):
, they're not going to celebratefor over an hour.
You know himself and the team.
He called in airstrikes.
Having heard the firefightgoing on there, he called in
airstrikes.
So not only is John handlingbeing fired at RPGs,
hand-to-hand combat.
He had to kill a couple guyswith hand-to-hand combat.
Now he's being bombed by hisown munitions and you know even
(22:55):
just the concussive impacts thathe had been taking.
I can't even imagine.
Yeah, so you know, ultimatelythey called in for QRF, the
quick reaction force.
John had gotten into the bunker.
He had been, you know, shot,you know he had all kinds of
wounds, shrapnel, whatever, andhe was in there.
(23:17):
And I know he heard thehelicopter.
He knew the helicopter, the qrf, the third one was coming up
there and, um, I, I.
He actually had to have seen italso, and he could have stayed
in the bunker, um, and justprayed that he didn't bleed out
and that he would be saved.
But instead he knew that theenemy wanted that bunker from
(23:39):
which to shoot RPGs and theDishka machine gun and he left
cover so that he could lay downsuppressive fire for the
incoming QRF.
Unfortunately, some of the guyswere shot as soon as they left
the the rail, um, but john'sactions, you know, actually
(24:00):
probably saved all of them onthat urf.
And then after that um, yeah,he was.
He was killed right after he.
He laid prone to try to keep.
I think he was shooting at thefish disc machine gun and then
somebody you know got a shotthat that that ended up killing
him.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Wow, the, the horror and also pride that in him, of
course, that you and your familyhad to have been feeling at
hearing all of this, because isthat is a lot, that is a lot to
envision, that's a lot to hear,that's a lot to process.
(24:43):
Um, I can't even fathom howthat must have felt for your
family.
How long from the time thatjohn was killed was it before
you actually got the full story?
And did you and your familyalready suspect there were
things like what was thattimeline where things kind of
(25:05):
started evolving into somethingdifferent, where you had to
question so, immediately afterit all happened, we were
basically told they landed onthe mountain, he killed two
people and he was shot andkilled.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So basically, you know, like bing bang, boom, he's
done and he's now a footnote Um, and we all I mean I haven't
talked to all, I haven't talkedto my sister and my brother
about, um, what their feelingwas, um, but I know my mom and I
were like there's somethingmore to this, there has to be
something.
Yes, especially my mom, becauseshe wanted to know from his
(25:40):
commander did he suffer, did hedie immediately?
And she was told he diedimmediately, which is true, he
died immediately with that lastshot, but he didn't, you know,
he lived for an hour and a halfan hour and 20 minutes after
they left him.
Now, I'm not saying that thecommander knew that at the time,
right after it happened, Idon't know um, but and then it
(26:02):
took, it was just like intrickles, like you know, I we
talked, because my husband wasthe first sergeant of that unit.
So, okay, yeah, that's how Imet him was through john's death
, but, um, you know, so therewas, we still had that
connection in in there.
You know, if I had just been asister with no connection to the
unit at all.
We probably there might have.
I don't know if we would haveknown half of this stuff.
(26:24):
I don't know, um, but peoplestarted saying, hey, this is
there's no way, this is wrong.
You know people within thecommunity saying, you know,
chappie didn't die right awayand because, um, there was
another combat controller onanother mountain after the SEALs
left and John came up on theradio and he had a specific
combat controller, specificwhatever you call it, call sign,
(26:50):
and they were Mako 30.
He was Mako 30, charlie.
He was the Charlie because ofthe combat controller.
And so John came up on theradio.
I want to say, uh, maybe 10 toa dozen times.
You know any station, anystation, this is Mako three,
zero Charlie, and a combatcontroller on another mountain
heard him and he, you know hehad worked with John, he knew
that, he knew John's voice, heknew how he spoke and um, and he
(27:13):
would respond and, and knew howhe spoke and um, and he would
respond and, and, just, forwhatever reason, john either
couldn't or or didn't respondback whenever whenever Jay, uh,
you know, answered him.
So, and that was after the guysleft, um, so there's that proof
.
You know, there were just littlethings that started coming out,
like he, his body was found notwhere the team leader said that
(27:36):
he left them, you know.
And he what?
And so neil's body.
They had a few hours with himand so he, he was stripped of
most of his clothing and he was.
You know, they did things tohim.
John didn't have any mutilation, he didn't, he wasn't stripped,
they didn't have time.
So, I'm OK, they, they had thistime between when the SEALs
(27:57):
left and the and the Rangersfinally came in after the QRF.
They, they would have done thesame thing to John and he was
not touched.
So, you know, in my mind I'mlike they didn't have time to do
it, you know.
So, you know, there was just alot of things that didn't make
sense.
And then the lies well, Ichecked him.
Well, how did you check him?
Well, I rolled over him.
And then, you know, then it waswell, I, I checked him, I
(28:21):
checked his pulse, or oh, therewas a laser, a stupid story
about a laser from his weaponlaying on.
You know, first it was movingand then it wasn't moving, I
mean, so the story kept himbasically yeah and and yeah, and
they were pretty stupid, so youknow's like we're not dumb.
So it started coming out alittle bit at a time and I got
(28:42):
married to Kenny and he got tosee both sides of losing a troop
and then seeing the pain of thefamily.
Like you know, he lived bothsides and we were talking and we
tried everything we could backin I want to say 05, 06 to get
him get his Air Force crossupgraded or at least looked at
(29:05):
for an upgrade, and we just keptgetting shot down like
immediately, like immediately,and we're like, ok, there's
something going on here, thatit's, that it's this fast.
And so John had a ship namedafter him in I want to say it
was 06, and general jumper wasthere and jumper knew that kenny
was married to john's sister,and so kenny went up to him and
(29:27):
said hey, you know, um, what doyou think about having this,
having looking, looking intohaving his upgraded to the medal
of Honor?
And Jumper said to Kenny again,knowing that he's married to
John's sister, the Chapmanfamily has been very easy to
work with, so let's not makewaves, wow.
That to me was like you know,full confirmation that there's
(29:49):
more.
You know.
And then that's go ahead.
I'm sorry, no, no go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I'm sorry, no, no, go ahead.
So that's almost in a nutshellthat this all it's all because
they didn't want this incidentlooked at.
That's the whole reason, right,why the Medal of Honor upgrade
was not happening, why they werejust stonewalling you, because
they did not want eyes on anyscrutiny on what really happened
(30:16):
, right right, and they is notthe air force, they in the, in
the seals, they did not, youknow, because for them it's all
about the brand that you know.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You know we are, we are navy seals and we, which is
completely not true um, they'rehuman beings and they always
make mistakes.
And so you, you know, as from afamily perspective and I think
I feel like I speak for prettymuch every family who's lost
someone in war or not Just, allwe want is the truth.
(30:47):
Tell us the truth.
If our person male, female,whatever if they screwed up,
then we want to know If he orshe was a hero.
We want to know that too.
We don't want it know if, if heor she was a hero, we want to
know that too.
We don't want it to besuppressed, we don't.
Neil roberts was a hero.
They didn't even celebratetheir own guy, you know, because
in doing so it would have.
It's just.
It blows my mind that this, themany, the people, that they
(31:09):
don't care who they hurt, aslong as it keeps their brand,
you know, shiny, I don't know.
And american people are sogullible, you know, everybody's
like oh well, they're needySEALs, so they would.
Or military doesn't even haveto be SEALs.
So they're above board and theywould never lie.
I mean, look at Pat Tillman'sfamily.
They were lied to, you know,and it's just tell us the truth.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah, you uh, in undertaking all of this and,
you know, just being exposed toit and then advocating the way
that you have, that obviouslymust have drawn so many more
military families who wentthrough or are going through
similar things as this.
(31:51):
Did you find that there were alot of people coming to you and
saying and sharing their ownstories and sharing their own
questions and asking maybe evenfor your help in, you know,
writing these grievous wrongs?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I didn't really get.
I mean, I start, I didn't start.
I entered or joined a Facebookpage that was a Gold Star
Siblings for a while and therewere some sisters who reached
out to me, you know, withdifferent grievances, some of it
with whatever branch it wasthat their you know their
sibling had was in.
Some of it had to do with morepersonal things, like the what
(32:31):
do you call it?
Pnok, the primary nexapin,which is at the.
You know, the ones that came tome were the ones who had
spouses, who had in-laws,sister-in-laws, and how they
were treated in that respect.
So you know, that was a bigthing for on that, on that site.
But I didn't really have a lotof people I mean, cause I was
(32:54):
still fighting my fight have alot of people because I was
still fighting my fight and alot of them.
I think they they just acceptedwhat they were told and I don't
know, I feel like there are alot out there whose story is not
quite what you think it is.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I feel like they lie about it for no apparent reason.
You know, like it's just likethe knee jerk reaction, like you
heard about things in Vietnam.
Or you know somebody, somebodywent off the off the reservation
, but you know they were.
The family was told well, hesaved a whole platoon.
You know, and it's like justtell the truth.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Right.
I don't know, yeah, no, I agreewith you and I can certainly see
, you know, I can certainlyunderstand families just wanting
to take the the best possibleversion and and leaving it that
at that.
But you know there's and thenthere's people like you and your
mom that are, you know, justtruth.
(33:45):
Truth comes before everythingand you know, and it's really a
testament to your fortitude andmy gosh, especially your mom,
you know, as a mother, to tohear those things.
You know, again, I always putmyself in that mindset of how
would I feel, how would I react,what would I think, what I do.
None of us know, certainly forreal, until they're faced with
(34:05):
it.
So I commend you so much becausethere are other families and
other military families who havehad that gut check as well.
That said, something's notright here and I think your
story and the way that you havehandled this and pursued this, I
think it is such anencouragement and almost like a
(34:26):
guidebook of how to right, youknow, to be like, okay, wait a
minute, this is the steps thatthey went through, these are the
things that they said and didand you know, and really just
putting the pressure on andputting the spotlight on and
obviously that tenacity, thatperseverance, it finally paid
off with that deserved medal ofhonor.
(34:48):
Take me through, if you will,that, just that, the feeling,
the emotions of that, theeverything of getting finally
that for John.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
So, just so everyone knows, our efforts to get his
Air Force Cross looked at forthe Medal of Honor went nowhere.
We had nothing to do with theultimate him ultimately being
awarded the Medal of Honor.
What happened was back in, Iwant to say, 2014-ish.
Then Secretary of the Air Force, Deborah James was reading an
article in the military time orAir Force Times that asked what
(35:23):
does an airman need to do toreceive a Medal of Honor Because
there hadn't been one sinceVietnam.
An airman, not like a pilot oranything.
And so she said, hmm, let'sfind out.
And so she tasked her peoplewith finding I don't know 10 or
12 names of people who wouldhave been awarded something, but
maybe it should have been themedal of honor and john's name
(35:44):
floated to the top, and um, sothen ultimately it was, he was
chosen as the one to let's,let's prove this, let's make it
happen, and um, so then theprocess went on from there and,
uh, the seals, they triedeverything they could do to
squash john's metal, likeeverything they could think of,
you know.
(36:04):
And when it didn't work, theydecided to.
So so there's a whole big thing.
So, rob, rob harrison, was inthe um, the ac-130 that was
flying overhead and recording.
So he was an ear and eyewitnessto the whole thing and he was
tasked he was on the Medal ofHonor task force to prove the
medal.
So he knew everything that wasgoing on and he was in a room.
(36:29):
They were in a meeting that wasa.
It was just here.
We're just gonna show you this.
We don't have to do this.
We're just going to show youthis.
We don't have to do this, we'rejust going to do it anyway,
just so you know what we have.
And even in the meetings theywere like that, that didn't
happen that way.
Or when he said you know, youknow we're talking about John
(36:49):
and his, his call sign.
And you know they're like, hey,didn't you use that call sign?
Yeah, I think I used that callsign too.
Like no, they didn't, but theywere already doing that.
And then, at some point in time, this Jeremy Williams was a.
I don't know if he was acommander, I don't know what he
was.
As far as I'm concerned, he wasjust a turd.
(37:10):
But he leaned back and lookedat the team leader and said well
, we should just put you in forthe Medal of Honor, which is
what they ultimately did.
And so, yeah, if you read hiscitation, the actions that he's
credited with on his citationwere actually John's.
So if you look at the video,that was another thing.
What happened, how John wasactually awarded, it was because
(37:38):
, so, there was a CIA droneflying overhead, overhead, when
the battle happened, and thenthere was the ac-130 flying
overhead.
Well, when, um, and we didn't,we knew there was a video, but
no one ever.
We couldn't see it for years,um, and then the medal of honor
group was able to take the video.
So there was there were somegaps in the the uh cia drone
video because I guess probablybecause they were circling, so
there might were some gaps inthe CIA drone video because I
guess probably because they werecircling, so there might be
(37:59):
some gaps.
Well, the AC-130 had theirvideo and they were able to fill
in the gaps Like this, you know, because they didn't.
However, it happened, they werestill able to see the entire
thing and so that's how they hadthe video to prove John's first
Medal of Honor with video proofand he ended up being the first
(38:22):
enlisted Air Force Medal ofHonor since Vietnam.
But it just took a lot and theyall tried to.
So when John was awarded the AirForce Cross, they had three I
want to say three after actionreports or three eyewitness
statements is what it was bythree teammates for for the air
force cross.
They weren't signed becausethey were downrange or they were
somewhere, so they wereelectronically sent.
(38:43):
So they they weren't like,physically signed.
The air force asked them tosign their, just ask them to
sign their, their statementsfrom the air force cross thing,
and they refused to sign them,like no, not signing them.
There were just so many thingsthat they did to try to.
Oh, he went against orders andhe did this and he did that.
He saved your lives, people.
(39:03):
He did what he was supposed todo.
He attacked the attackers, youknow.
Yes, he was a combat controller.
Yes, he was supposed to call inairstrikes or set up comms, but
that wasn't the mission.
At that point in in time, themission was finding neil and and
and even if john had to set upcomms, he had to reach higher
ground.
He had to.
He had to do something otherthan staying there fighting with
(39:24):
the, with the helicopter.
He had to move to higher groundanyway.
So everything that they've saidis just fiction, bullshit,
really.
And and and, and, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, you have been so fearlessly bold in calling
out by name these people whoreally did a disservice, more
than a disservice.
That's such an understatementto your brother and to your
family and to his memory andagainst their own honor.
Really, I'm curious have any ofthem ever responded or reacted
(39:58):
to you, publicly or privately,positively or negatively, in
response to any of this?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Well, I don't know, I guess we haven't talked about
the museum thing.
But, and so I have this NavySEAL.
So I say turd, because in theircommunity that's a really bad
thing to be called.
But I really truly believe thatthese people are certain ones.
So there's a Navy SEAL inCalifornia who's trying to make
(40:28):
a documentary of the fiction andhe's been trying to get in
touch with me.
Um, for his own nefariousreasons, you know, get me on
video, get or get me on tapesaying something.
And then he can say you know,well, John's sister actually
talked to me, or, you know, orhe could take what I say and
(40:48):
twist it and edit it or whateverit is.
Um, so he's tried.
Um, and I did talk to him acouple years ago when he first,
when I had no clue, you know,and he and I I just told him
back then I don't trust you, youknow, you're Navy SEAL, you
know he even admitted, you know,I might have a, I might have a
slant towards the Navy SEALs,what you think you know.
So he was, he was just a lapdogfor, for the, for the guys, for
(41:13):
the higher up dudes that arepulling the strings, and I'm not
afraid to say their names,because they have to be spoken,
because we're not the onlyfamily that has been affected by
these people.
I mean, 12, 10 years after John,Commander Joe Price was
murdered, murdered.
He was a commander of SEAL Team4.
He was murdered by his own menat the order of someone who was
(41:37):
also involved in John's, TimSzymanski.
He was the one who forced themission for John and he was the
commander or above CommanderPrice.
Yeah, so this has to be, it hasto be stopped.
People have to know their names, they have to hear the stories
of all these families who are,who are destroyed because of
(42:00):
these, of these, this faction ofevil, corrupt navy seals.
Um, you know, logan melgar wasmurdered by navy seals and I
mean everybody knows that he wasmurdered and yet nothing
happened to these guys.
You know, initially the armywas investigating that and they
said well, it's because he foundout that they were stealing
(42:21):
money from the you know they'resent over with a whole bunch of
money that they were stealingmoney.
And then the Navy took over theinvestigation and all of a
sudden it was a hazing accidentgone wrong and so nobody got.
You know, and it's like it'sjust disgusting and it has to
stop, and, and I feel like theonly way for it to stop is to
start saying their names.
You know the guy John's teamleader, Brent Kelly Slabinski,
(42:44):
is.
I mean, he has a big hand inwhat happened with the, the
Medal of Honor Museum and I mean, I don't know how.
I just don't know how they sleepat night.
I mean, they have no souls.
I pray, I pray and it's hardfor me to pray for them, but I
pray that that God enters theirhearts and their souls because,
or helps them regain their souls, because if he's in their
(43:08):
hearts they can't be doing whatthey're doing.
You know, one of them adifferent guy, navy SEAL, you
know said oh my God, he said heinvoked God and I'm like, if you
truly had God in your heart,you could not do what you're
doing.
Yeah, so, and it's again, it'svery hard for me to pray for
(43:29):
them, but I do.
I pray that they, that Godhelps them wrench their souls
back from the devil.
And I know there's some peopleout there who probably be like
oh, she sounds like a crazy nut,but I truly believe that you
know, if they had God in theirhearts, they couldn't do what
they're doing.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, I think.
Personally, as a Christian, Ithink that is probably one of
the hardest things to do.
One of the hardest things to do, which is, instead of cursing
the people who have done youwrong or done grievous wrongs,
instead of cursing them, to prayfor them.
I find that to be one of mygreatest challenges and I
(44:09):
commend you so much for diggingso deep to find that ability to
offer that kind of grace whenthe us in us would rather punch
him in the face.
Let's call it what it is.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
We'd rather throw a punch and then preach to him.
That's exactly what I said.
I'd rather throw a punch at him, and don't get me wrong.
And I had to talk to my pastorabout this because I was so
conflicted Like I don't know howto forgive.
I'm not there.
I don't know if I'll everforgive, but I can still pray
for them.
And I was conflicted withtrying to find that but also
(44:48):
really feeling the need tocontinue to tell the story
because more families are beingdestroyed because of them, and
so I feel like there's not justthis for me to pray for them or
try to find some kind offorgiveness, but it's also I
don't know why I've asked God tomake sure.
(45:09):
Am I on the right path?
Am I supposed to be doing this?
And I've never had to know.
So you know, my pastor was likeyou can have the two.
Things can coexist.
You can want to speak the truthand try to forgive them.
You know you can do the bothAbsolutely, and so I'm really
conflicted about all of that.
Yeah, and I think that's.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I think that is more than okay, that's, that's so
human and understandable.
And I think the biggesttakeaway from everything that
you just said was your desire tokind of reconcile those
feelings and to still powerthrough all of that which makes
us so human and ourselves, andbring that faith into it and ask
(45:55):
God to work through you to helpyou through that.
And I think that's soincredible and it's funny.
One of the last questions I wasgoing to ask you, I was going
to say I'm going to read itanyway.
I was going to say, if John'sstory helps reshape how we honor
fallen heroes or hold certainleaders accountable, what kind
of change would you most want tosee in the next few years?
And I feel like you partlyanswered that already.
(46:17):
It's, you know it's thetransparency and bringing to
light the things that are in thedark.
And then you know your gracepart speak a little bit more and
better than I did on that,please.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yeah.
So, like I said, the truth justneeds to be told.
Just good, bad, ugly, whatever,just tell the truth.
It's just let's just stop, youknow.
And then they always get caught.
You know, pat tillman, theyfinally got caught.
You're lying.
You know all these otherstories.
You got caught.
You're lying like let's, can wejust stop, um.
But there also has to be and Idon't know how this happens, and
I know there were people withinthe seal community and I and
(46:53):
I'm not saying that the SEALcommunity is the only community
that has bad actors, I'm notsaying that and I also am saying
that not all SEALs are bad Ihave yet to meet.
I have two guys, two guys thatI would probably trust, you know
, one I'm Facebook friends withand one I just know, um.
But um, I've been just so jadedby the whole thing that, you
(47:18):
know, if I hear someone say, oh,my brother's a Navy SEAL, I
mean I'm immediately like, oh,well, then he's a piece of crap,
you know, and it might not befair, but that's my all every
dealing that I've had with theNavy SEALs.
Um, even even I, I um, what'shis name?
Ryan zinke.
He's a representative frommontana.
He called me when you, I didn'ttell you, you know, he called
(47:39):
me trying to smooth things over,things over with the museum
thing, and he was such anarrogant dick like he thought he
was just gonna swoop in thereand have a phone call with me
and smooth things over.
And and then when he, when I, Imean I got heated, I got upset,
you know, pissed.
I'm like, well, you're tellingme that this is okay, you.
And then when he, when I, Imean I got heated, I got, you
know, pissed.
I'm like, well, you're tellingme that this is okay, you know.
And then he would like turntail and ran.
He's like, well, I can seeyou're upset, I think we should
(48:00):
end the call.
You know, I'm like, is thatwhat you do with your
constituents?
They get pissed at you, soyou'll turn around and run, like
I mean that'm getting into that.
But so I think I started to saybefore I did the caveat of you
(48:20):
know, not the not everyone's abad seal and not not every other
branch is perfect either.
But I feel like the onus is alot on each, each group, each
branch, each, even in just downto a small.
Why would you have?
You know, everybody talks aboutthis brotherhood or we're this
great brotherhood.
Why would you want anyone inyour brotherhood who could
tarnish your brand, tarnish yourtrident tarnish, whatever your
(48:44):
symbol is?
Why would you do that?
Why would you accept that?
And I know that there wassomebody within the SEAL
community that was trying toclean things up in SEAL Team 6.
And he got ousted.
You know, know, and it's likeright, because there's this
group that's that's growingstronger and has a lot of so I
don't know, if you read the bookum code over country by matthew
(49:07):
cole and he delves into the,you know where seal team six
started with marchenko in the70s and talks about this stanley
penny in one of the very firstchapters and what they did to
him.
If you read nothing else ofthat book, read what they did to
him.
And that's the type of thingthat they do for especially the
weaker ones to control them.
(49:28):
They get them in compromisingsituations, they take
photographs, they do things likethis so now they own you.
You either leave or you do whatthey tell you to do.
And like this so now they ownyou.
You either leave or you do whatthey tell you to do.
And and I know this for a fact,and there was just an article
that a woman uh, was it sethattenant?
Put out on the sub stack andwhere she said that I think it
was three things I wish I knewbefore my son became a navy seal
(49:50):
or tried to be a navy seal.
And she talks about somethingvery similar to that where
it's's like they find a way tocontrol you, and apparently I
don't know.
That's what's going on there.
But so that's what I feel.
Like each service, each group Imean going all the way down to
the smallest group you should bepolicing yourselves.
(50:10):
Why would you want somebody badin your group?
And I was trying to think aboutthis one time, like, okay,
there are brotherhoods andthere's sisterhoods, I really
feel like sisterhoods.
Like if I was in this big groupsisterhood and one or two or
three of them decided to do allthis, hey, let's go rob banks,
whatever I would be like, ohheck, no, you're out.
And not only are you out, I'mcalling the police on you.
(50:31):
You know what I mean.
Like maybe that's.
Well, that doesn't go.
The bro code is you know you're, you don't.
You don't rat your people out,but well, you could at least
kick them out.
You know, if you don't want torat them out, kick them out.
So I feel like there has to besome kind of the joe price
murder.
And yet they're not speakingout.
(50:59):
Yeah, there are people who knowhow bad some of these seals are
.
I mean, there are.
I've talked to controllers,I've talked to pjs who who have
said, yeah, we don't, we neverwanted to be deployed with seals
because they got people injuredor killed because they they
call cowboy it up, it up.
You know, like we can just rollin there and and and just shoot
from the hip, and you know.
So, these people, I know theyhave their lives.
(51:21):
But you know, if you, if allthis is going to be fixed and
cleaned up and and, and you know, wipe the tarnish off the, off
the tridents and everybodyelse's symbols, then they need
to start from within.
And and Unfortunately, with theSEAL faction, a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
You, lori, who you know I would call a reluctant
(51:59):
warrior right Like this, is notthe role that you would have
ever imagined yourself being inor playing, or even having
knowledge of so many differentaspects of this, but it's.
You know, if I dare say, it'salmost like it's the path that
God chose for you to do this,because he must have taken one
look at you and said they arenot going to mess with this one.
(52:22):
So I'm sending her, I amsending her in, and she is going
to be the one, to you know, togo in there and shine this light
on this dark underbelly ofsomething the rest of us only
see the shiny surface of.
So again, you know, I know Isaid it to you before, but I
have so much respect andadmiration for what you do
(52:43):
because I can only imagine howdifficult it has been, and I'm
sure it does not get easier, andI'm sure that the battle that
you fight on behalf of yourbrother and men and women like
him who have had similar thingshappen to them, it must be
exhausting in so many ways.
(53:04):
So I just I commend you beyondthe words that I'm even capable
of.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Thank you, but you know, as you're talking about,
you know, back after, after theMedal of Honor poll thing, you
know watching Slabinski get amedal that he didn't earn and
and it's like I had moved on.
That was 2018, when that wasbecause he, he had to, that was
another thing.
They wanted to make sure thathis was awarded first, but
whatever, it's all about opticsand whatever.
(53:32):
But I had I had kind of movedon, I had, you know, I'm living
my life.
I found my own piece and thenthe whole museum thing happened
and then, once that came about,I just said I'm never going away
, like I'm just, I can't likethis is.
It's so egregious and sodisgusting that, um, I, I, just,
(53:55):
I, I'm, I'm like this one tinylittle voice in in the giant,
you know universe, and mostpeople aren't paying attention
and you know it's sad.
You know there are, I think, Ithink pretty much every navy
seal in the in the congress,which I think is five of them.
You, they all ran on Republicanticket.
Because why?
(54:15):
Because Republicans love themilitary, and you know.
But you know, and again, likeyou said, I know more than I
wish I did.
I'm not going to say all of it.
But yeah, they're not therebecause they want to serve the
country.
They're there for other reasonsand it's sad I don't know how
we got here.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, I know I've said that in so many different ways.
You know as I go on my journeyhere, and news and reporting and
all of the things youunfortunately you know, you see
it, you see it and you can, andit's that discernment that you
know these things.
You hear and read it and see itand it's immediately setting
(54:58):
off those those you know hugered flags like wait a minute, I
can tell already this is notright, this is not what it seems
and you know, while the rest ofthe world is like that's
wonderful, it looks true, itsounds true, they're saying it
so sincerely, so it must be true.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, it's like no, what's wrong with you?
How do you not?
So, yeah, that discernment manit's.
It's a curse and a gift, isn'tit?
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Oh, no lie.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yeah, laurie, tell everyone where they can find the
books and if there is, oh, wedid not talk about First Thayer
Foundation, so please take amoment and share about that, if
you would.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Sure, the First Air Foundation was founded by a man
named Eric Lionheart.
He was a combat controller I'lljust do a quick, you know,
reader's Digest version and hewas retired or had gotten out
and one of his mentors andfriends ultimately took his own
(56:02):
life.
And it was at that moment thatEric said this has to stop.
So he, that night like laidthere and thought about the
mission and everything and thendecided that the mission
statement would be to help hiscombat control family, the
controllers and their families,and so he founded the first
(56:24):
there foundation, and I can'tremember which year.
I think we're in our fifth yearnow.
I wasn't part of it.
In the beginning I didn't knowhim, and now he's just, he's
like my brother, but so we'venow branched out out.
So now it's not just combatcontrollers and their families,
it's all, all military lawenforcement, you know first
responders and their families,mostly to help with mental
(56:46):
health.
Um, we do, we do offer otherthings, like for the controllers
when they get out, like youknow, hey, how to write a resume
for you know the uh, thegeneral, general public or
civilian jobs and things likethat.
So, um, so that we're, we'rethere to help, um, but again,
mostly with mental health and uhand different retreats to help
(57:07):
with that.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
So I love that.
Is there a website?
Do you have a website you can?
We'll put, and we'll put it,guys, we'll.
We will be putting this in theshow notes.
You'll be able to click oneverything and go right First
there, yeah, the number one, stthereorg.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Perfect First thereorg.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, and the books are on Amazon, correct?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Both books are on Amazon Barnes and Noble, I think
first alone at dawn, I believeis you can get it anywhere
whatever bookstore your favorite.
Um, with mine beingself-published, I'm not sure if
they've gone anywhere besidesamazon and barnes and noble.
I have some on myself,obviously because it's
self-publishing.
So I'm under no I've said thisbefore, I'm under no delusion
(57:50):
that somebody would want asigned copy of mine.
You know, just read the book.
But, um, you know, if anyonewanted a signed copy of mine,
you know, just read the book.
But you know, if anyone wanteda signed copy, it's probably
best to buy it from me, so I canjust sign it and mail it
instead of you buy it.
You mail it to me, I mail itback and all that kind of stuff.
But yeah, so that's where theyare Outstanding.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Again, lori, thank you so much for sharing your
time with me, sharing your storyand, of course, john's story,
and all the blessings in theworld to you and your family,
and your husband as well.
Thank him for his service,please.
And yeah, it was so greathaving you on and it was an
honor and a privilege to be ableto share this story with our
(58:27):
audience, so I hope you willconsider coming back again when
you get your first fiction bookmaybe.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
I know right.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Lovely.
I would love that personally,so that would be phenomenal.
So, thank you very much and,guys, thank you all for watching
and we will see you in the nextepisode.
Take care Three.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Four.
Speaker 3 (58:50):
Five, six, seven, eight, seven, five, six, seven,
eight.
One for teamwork who's up, down, up and teamwork.
One for our fallen comrades,who's up, down, up and All
(59:11):
comrades.
And one for our brother JohnChapman, who's up, down, for our
brother John Chapman, who's notdown On offense.
John Chapman Recovered.
She's the voice behind the viral comedy, bold
commentary and truth-packedinterviews that cut through the
chaos.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Author, brand creator , proud conservative Christian.
This is Elsa Kurt.
Welcome to the show that alwaysbrings bold faith, real truth
and no apologies.
Well, hey, my friends, welcomefor a very special interview.
Special episode we're going tohave Lori Longfritz on.
So here's the backstory InMarch of 2002, us Air Force
(00:31):
Combat Controller John Chapmanwas left behind on a mountaintop
in Afghanistan.
He was wounded, alone andsurrounded, and he continued to
fight for over an hour toprotect the very teammates who
had unknowingly retreatedwithout him.
He died saving lives that day,and for years, that part of the
(00:51):
story remained buried, disputedand, in some circles,
deliberately ignored.
It took 16 years, a mountain ofevidence and the unrelenting
advocacy of his family,especially his sister Lori, for
the truth to be formallyrecognized.
In 2018, john Chapman wasposthumously awarded the Medal
(01:11):
of Honor.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
We're gathered together this afternoon to pay
tribute to a fallen warrior, agreat warrior, Technical
Sergeant John Chapman, and toaward him our nation's highest
and most revered military honor.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But, as Lori will tell you, that wasn't the end of
the fight and in many ways, itwas just the beginning.
So join me in welcoming Loriwith us today.
Hi, lori, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thanks, elsa, thanks for havingme, absolutely.
So.
You know it's such anincredible story and you know I
really want to start by sayingthank you to John, of course,
(01:53):
and to your family, for, youknow, a sacrifice that so many
of us are so fortunate to notever have to experience.
So we thank you for that andwe're sorry for that for your
family, for what they've gonethrough and what they're still
going through, what you're goingthrough.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thank you.
We never expected it reallyeither, because John was just
growing up and you know he, he Idon't want to say he never
failed at anything, but if hestruggled with something he
pushed through until he made itand so, so, and we didn't know
what combat control was.
We had no idea a lot of most ofwhat he was doing in that
capacity.
So I think for most of us, ifnot all of us, we just assumed
(02:34):
that he would always be fine,you know, and so we never
thought we would be, you know,the ones getting the knock on
the door.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So yeah, I would imagine that you know you would
have never imagined yourselfbeing in the spotlight, so to
speak, and doing what you'redoing.
It changed everybody's lives inyour family, and in so many
different ways, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, it sure did.
It changed all of us, you know,and we initially, when it all
happened, we, my mom and I, werethe only ones left in Windsor
Locks and you know we tried tobe private like we didn't want
to make do interviews and things.
But we were basically told well, you know, if you don't do
interviews, then we'll just comeup with whatever we want to say
.
You know, we'll interviewsomeone who may have known him
(03:20):
for five minutes or you know,something along those lines.
So you know, we were almostpretty much forced into, you
know, giving interviews and youknow, and exposing our pain
right there in front ofeverybody.
So you know, I thought that waskind of kind of crappy.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But yeah, yeah, it absolutely is.
And you know, and I rant aboutthis regularly, about the
behavior of mainstream media andso-called journalists, and you
know, and all of these people,the integrity of all of it is in
has declined to, you know, tojust just a deplorable degree,
and I'm sorry your familyexperienced that too.
(03:56):
I want to ask you you know so,so many of us who know John's
story, we, we know him as a heroLike that is our only
understanding and knowledge ofhim.
I would love, if you wouldn'tmind, could you share a moment
that kind of shows who he was,and I love the things I've seen,
some things you've said abouthim.
Tell us a little bit about John, the brother, the guy, the son,
(04:21):
the friend.
What was he like?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
guy, the son, the friend what was he like oh?
my gosh, how much time do youhave?
We grew up in the 70s basically70s, 80s and back in a time
where I think even adultswouldn't insist on the kids
accepting everybody for whateverthey brought to the table.
And John was ahead of his timein that he didn't care if it was
(04:47):
cool to be seen with a certainperson or you know, um, he, just
he.
He had a lot of compassion forfor most people.
Um, he would stand up againstbullies, for, you know, kids who
couldn't defend themselves.
Um had a neighbor, family,friends they're our family and
(05:08):
they had a handicapped daughterand even at 12 years old, john
would just disappear.
We'd all be playing outside andhe'd just disappear.
And we'd find him inside thehouse playing with Mary because
she couldn't come outside.
You know she had a lot ofmobility issues and things like
that.
So you know he would justdisappear and go play with her
(05:30):
and you know he was that kind ofkid and I don't know.
I'm sure I've told the storybefore.
I mean it started way back, youknow, from the time he was
probably born, because my momwould.
My mom said that before hecould really talk much at all,
if he saw her upset.
He would just walk up to herand cup her face and say it's OK
, mommy.
I mean, he just had thatcompassion in him.
(05:51):
He stood up to a kindergartenbully when they were all in
kindergarten.
It was the very first day ofschool and I got this story from
little Billy.
Billy was new to this town and,um, it was before school
started.
And billy says I must have saidsomething to piss off maureen
walsh, and, and she punched mein the stomach and she wound up
(06:14):
to punch me again.
And this, this kid, stepped inthe way and it was john.
You know, they're all fiveyears old, you know.
So at five years old, johnstepped in front of you know.
I mean, it was like that's justwho he was.
And he was funny, funny, asmart ass, what a smart ass.
But just a great, great guy.
I mean, I don't want to.
You know, both of all of mysiblings were just great people
(06:37):
that we're talking about Johnhere.
So, yeah, he was just.
He didn't.
I don't think he had like a lotof inner circle friends, but
when he pulled you in, it meant,you know, he really saw
something in you or he wantedyou near him, um, and so he did
have some really good friendsthere um growing up.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's beautiful I, you know I I love
that.
Did.
Um, I would imagine that somany people after his passing
came and shared stories.
That's probably.
You know, if there's everanything good to come from such
a tragedy is that.
You know, because we don't justrandomly share great memories
of people with each other, right, and when something like this
(07:20):
happens, it triggers all ofthose memories and people are so
kind to share those memories sothat you get to have them as
well.
Did that?
Is that something that happeneda lot?
Did you get a?
lot of stories that you neverknew.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Absolutely.
It happened a lot.
So I just self-published a bookafter Alone at Dawn.
I have Alone at Dawn first, sothat my co -author I just
self-published first there theLife and Legacy of American Hero
, master Sergeant John Chapman.
It's a mouthful, but it kind ofhad to be.
But in that book I tell about alot of the stories that came
(07:57):
out after he was killed, andstories that even went back all
the way to.
One of them was when he wasaround nine years old, that
somebody just held on to for allthose years and then felt, you
know, I as a mom, I need toshare this with his mom and you
know, so it was a lot of thesestories that came out in, you
know, after he was killed.
(08:17):
That I included in there and um, I'm repeating myself now, but
um, so so yeah, there were lotsof.
Even I think Billy was one ofthe ones that I mean, he told me
that story and I think in 2016,.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You know, it's just those pictures on the, on the
cover, are such a treasure and Iwould imagine there's there's
so many, like every family ofthat era.
Now they all, they it's all ontheir phone.
They got to scroll their phoneto find it, but we're so blessed
to have those actual albums andphysical pictures you can hold
in your hand and look at andthey're such treasures now, I'm
(08:52):
sure, more than ever.
Since we're talking about thebooks, tell me a little bit more
about that one.
I'm so curious about thatactual writing process of it
because I'm sure it had to besuch a mixed bag of emotions,
the sadness, the you know.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe best parts about writing
this book for you and if you'rewilling to share one of the most
(09:16):
difficult parts of it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
The first there.
So that was the book Ioriginally wanted to write.
You know, right out of the gate, as soon as John was gone, I, I
, you know he can't just be afootnote in history Um,
especially that's how they weretelling it initially Um, and so
I wanted to write a book and ittook me 15 years to even I would
start and stop cause I had noidea what I was doing, and um,
(09:42):
and then I got connected with mycoauthor from Alone at Dawn, uh
, dan, and you know, with apartner.
It changed my view, my, my umvision changed entirely, which
is the way it should have.
It needed to happen that way.
But so eventually, after afterAlone at Dawn came out in 2019,
(10:02):
um, I started kind of working onthat again with my husband's,
you know, kind of encouragement,like, hey, when are you going
to sit down and when are yougoing to keep doing this?
So, and it was, I had alreadytalked to a lot of his like
brothers in arms there to getstories about him, cause, you
know, I don't know combatcontrol, I didn't know what
happened in his training oranything after training.
(10:23):
So a lot of them were verygracious enough to sit down with
me and give me some stories andor email me something, and so
that it was really fun to to seeJohn from that perspective,
cause I obviously I knew himgrowing up, I knew him
personally, but I didn't knowhim in the job basically, and so
it was.
It was a lot of fun to hearthose stories and just to hear
(10:45):
how much they respected him, howmuch he had a lot of bona fides
.
He'd walk in the room and youknow I'm not saying every room,
but you know, and a lot ofpeople would say, oh, you know,
he's with Chappie, so he's good,you know.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Chappie that was his nickname.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, yeah, and that was even his nickname growing up
from with his, with his friendsand um, but, yeah, that's what
he I I think after he died, someof the guys were even like, oh
yeah, his name is john, likethey didn't really know, they
just called him chappy, you know.
So, yeah, so it was really.
I think the best part was justhearing stories from other
people, um, that I hadn't heardbefore, or, um, even some some
(11:23):
things from my family membersthat I hadn't either hadn't
heard before, or even some somethings from my family members
that I hadn't either hadn'theard before, or they clarified
it.
You know, it brought it more tolife for me and hopefully in
the book for everyone who readsit.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
But yeah, it's a beautiful thing to have done for
you know, for your own sake,really, you know that's probably
first and foremost for you,your family, john's friends, you
know the people that knew himand then to extend that to us,
for us to get to know him, toknow these things about him.
(11:58):
So what a wonderful thing tohave done to keep his legacy and
, you know, his memory alive.
I think that's so great and asan author, I totally fiction and
nonfiction, so I totally geteverything that you're saying
about that process andeverything that goes into it and
all of those things.
Have those books given you anykind of bug?
(12:21):
I'm just out of curiosity.
This is a random offside,sideways question here.
Does it give?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
a bug for more writing.
Oh yeah, I've always likedwriting.
I've never, you know, I thinkfrom here on out I'll never
write nonfiction again, but Ihave some ideas swirling around
in my head about, you know, forfiction.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That's exciting.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I love that yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
We mentioned the other book with Dan Schilling.
Let's talk about this one alittle bit.
This one actually came outfirst, you said correct?
Yes, yeah, Tell me a little bitabout the process of that, what
we can find inside there too.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
So the process was I mean, I had never written a book
before, so everything was newto me.
Um, the process was, um, it wasinteresting.
It was challenging at times.
Um, you know, um, dan is a verystrong personality.
I mean, he was a combatcontroller too.
I mean, they're all type a, youknow, um, and Dan could pretty
much sell, you know, ice toEskimo.
So you know it was, it wasdefinitely interesting and I
(13:20):
learned a lot of very valuablelessons.
And you know, we went throughour issues, but I think, you
know, we were able to workthrough them and and produce a
really good book.
It was a New York timesbestseller, yes, um, and so it's
basically no one's ever heardof air force combat control, or
(13:42):
at least maybe back then theydidn't.
And, um, even people in the airforce hadn't heard of it, or at
least didn't know much about it.
And so we, we kind of uh, givethe background on how it, how it
kind of started.
Um, the pipeline is the longestand hardest of any of the.
Whether you're looking at deltaseals, whatever pipeline is the
longest and hardest of any ofthe.
Whether you're looking at DeltaSEALs, whatever, it's the
longest of all of them becausecombat controllers and there may
(14:04):
be only one per group have tointegrate with various.
They have to integrate with theSEALs and the Delta and, you
know, sas and all these, evenforeign entities.
So they have to know, they haveto be prepared to be able to
integrate with each one.
It could be day to day, week toweek or hour to hour.
(14:25):
You know, you don't know.
You have to be able to just um,pivot and and, uh, fit right in
.
So there's this longest andhardest, uh, so we talk about
that.
Obviously dan is the one who didall all that, because I
wouldn't have a clue what Johnwent through in the pipeline and
John didn't.
It wasn't easy for him.
You know, that was the firstthing, the first time when I was
(14:45):
, when I was learning about evencombat control myself, like I
didn't know about combat controluntil after he died.
So in writing that book Ilearned a lot more than I had
had before that and I mean Igrew to.
I was so impressed with John,even more so after learning what
they have to go through andwhat they have to know and what
they have to do and and have toknow like high level math.
(15:07):
I'm like high level math.
You know he did.
You know, in high school heprobably had average grades.
You know, I never, you know.
So I was like, wow, littlebrother, I'm pretty impressed
with this um.
So it was nice to, to, to findout that stuff.
But we, so we explained thatand then we kind of go in, we,
and there are some littlestories about john's
interspersed throughout um, justto kind of connect where john
(15:30):
was when this combat control waswas growing um, and then we,
you know, talk about the battleand, um, I have a chapter in
there at the end.
That's.
That's strictly on the Medal ofHonor ceremony in 2018.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
So yeah, yeah, the the book is is a really
fascinating blend of like thethe tactical and the personal
like it's.
It's such a great balancing actbetween the two and and you get
both of those perspectivesreally you know.
So what, what, what you'regetting on the personal side and
then marrying that with all ofthat technical, tactical stuff,
(16:06):
it's like it's almostoverwhelming right for like just
learning all of that going.
Wow, there's just so muchencapsulated in all of this.
And and of course, youmentioned the battle, so I think
it's a great time to go intothat.
So if you could, you know andfeel free to kind of like just
(16:27):
summarize it for everyone, justthe the timeline in the events
of what happened, so we can kindof go into what happens next so
the timeline was, um, thatthere was this big, uh, the
sheikah valley.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
They were the, all the military, they were all
going to be.
There was just going to be thisbig, um, massive, let's, you
know, sweep through here and andget stuff done.
Well, the combat controllershad to find higher ground, so
from from there they could callin airstrikes and they could see
the valley and, uh, and knowwhere to to do that.
So there had to be, you know,uh, they had to find places to
(17:06):
land and things like that.
So john's group, um, he wasembedded with a seal team, six
team, and, um, they didn't haveto go into the mission, they
already had people in place.
Um, and the I don't want to getto go into the mission, they
already had people in place.
And the I don't want to get toodeep into the weeds.
Just, it was a poorly planned,unnecessary mission that the
SEALs pushed because theythought that bin Laden was there
(17:27):
and that they were going to getthe kill.
I mean the ultimate get down tothe brass tacks.
They wanted their you know,we're so wonderful, you, you
know, be able to raise theirflag over his body and um, so,
but they didn't need to go there.
It wasn't a mission that had tohappen.
That night, um, two other sealteam leaders were given the
mission and they said, no, we'renot doing that.
(17:48):
And then john's team leader andI usually say leader, but, um,
that's just me, because I'vegone through this for so many
years I've gotten very cynicalbut, um, yeah, so he accepted it
and he did try to push it 24hours, um, and the leadership
said, no, I, you know, we want,we need to get in it now, we
need to get in the fight.
And so they went and they hadhelicopter issues and things
(18:12):
like that, and so.
So initially they're supposedto land at the base of the
mountain and work their way upand be a surprise that they went
up there.
Um, so, because of, um,helicopter issues and whatnot,
they delayed.
It was delayed for hours, andso the best thing they came up
with was to land on the top ofthe mountain in a chinook, like.
(18:32):
I mean, everybody knew theywere coming.
There's no way to hide that,you know.
Know the sound of it, themassive, you know it's huge.
And so the and they knew theenemy was there.
They were told prior to thatthat the enemy was up there and
they just decided to cowboy itand it's like, well, you know
we're SEALs and you know they'llrun because they know it's us.
But and they didn't, you know.
So they were attacked when, assoon as they were trying to land
(18:53):
, the back was already open andone of the seals, somebody else,
had fallen out and he wastethered.
That guy was tethered, so NeilRoberts tried to pull him back
in and in you know the push pullof trying to bring someone back
in and he wasn't tethered.
You know the guy.
He ended up being pulled outand they were taking RPGs.
(19:14):
So the pilot, and and they weretaking RPGs, so the pilot, not
knowing what was going on in theback, you know, said we got to
get out of here and left.
So they left Neil there, who?
And he was ultimately executedwithin I don't forget how many,
I don't know, it could be 20, 40minutes, I don't know.
I know he did, you know, try tokill them, but he was
(19:35):
surrounded.
But so, anyway, once they crashlanded, they said, well, we
have to go back and get Neil,and John wanted to.
They wanted to leave John withthe, with the crew of that
fallen helicopter, the downedhelicopter and John was like no,
I'm on the team, I'm comingwith you.
But then there were still moredelays because they brought in
(20:01):
another helicopter and pilotsaid oh no, I'm not going back
up there right now, we need togo back and whatever.
So there were still more delaysand um, so then when they went
back the second time and theydid the same thing gonna land
right there where they tried toland before and expecting
different you know whateverresults and uh, they got they
landed.
Um, normally the controller isthe last one out, from what I
understand, um, at this point,because it was all ad hoc and
(20:22):
they just wanted to go find neil.
Uh, the team leader went outfirst post hold into their knee
to thigh deep snow and um, so hepost hold and fell on his face
and john stepped over him andthey were taking fire from you
know, two bunkers.
So he, uh, attack, is the,you're supposed to attack your
attacker.
So he went right after thefirst bunker and killed those
(20:43):
two guys, took over the bunker.
Um, you know, basically therewas all that.
Then, uh, at some point in timethey he and the team leader
went to and the other guys hadcome out and kind of spread out.
Then john, um, went to thesecond bunker.
At some point in time he washit and um, that's when the team
(21:03):
leader split off and met upwith the other guys and they
were like where's chappy?
Oh, he's dead.
But he never checked him, um,so I can't, you know the.
The guys on the mountain werelike okay, well, well, you know,
now we have to go with what wewere just told.
So he told them Chappie's dead.
And so then they egressed, butnot far, because they could
still hear the once I'm blowingthrough all this, skipping a lot
(21:28):
, skipping a lot.
But John came to after maybe 15,20, 30 minutes, I don't know
how long, and started fightingwith the, with the elk.
They tried to, you know, attackhim with whatever they had.
So the team leader had admittedthat he heard what was going up
on the mountain, going on up onthe mountain, and these guys
are elite, they know thedifferent reports from you, know
(21:51):
different weapons, and sothere's no way he didn't know
that that was an american weapon.
Um, they tried to push it offas it was red on red.
Where they were, the enemy werefighting each other or shooting
at each other, but this time itwas daylight.
Well, it was.
It was it was dawn, which islike alone at dawn, you know.
But the sun was coming up andthese guys had been on the
mountain for weeks, months,maybe even years, so they knew
(22:12):
each other.
They weren't going to befighting each other.
And then he said, well, it musthave been them celebrating and
I'm like that's fine, they mightcelebrate for like five minutes
(22:34):
, they're not going to celebratefor over an hour.
You know himself and the team.
He called in airstrikes.
Having heard the firefightgoing on there, he called in
airstrikes.
So not only is John handlingbeing fired at RPGs,
hand-to-hand combat.
He had to kill a couple guyswith hand-to-hand combat.
Now he's being bombed by hisown munitions and you know even
(22:55):
just the concussive impacts thathe had been taking.
I can't even imagine.
Yeah, so you know, ultimatelythey called in for QRF, the
quick reaction force.
John had gotten into the bunker.
He had been, you know, shot,you know he had all kinds of
wounds, shrapnel, whatever, andhe was in there.
(23:17):
And I know he heard thehelicopter.
He knew the helicopter, the qrf, the third one was coming up
there and, um, I, I.
He actually had to have seen italso, and he could have stayed
in the bunker, um, and justprayed that he didn't bleed out
and that he would be saved.
But instead he knew that theenemy wanted that bunker from
(23:39):
which to shoot RPGs and theDishka machine gun and he left
cover so that he could lay downsuppressive fire for the
incoming QRF.
Unfortunately, some of the guyswere shot as soon as they left
the the rail, um, but john'sactions, you know, actually
(24:00):
probably saved all of them onthat urf.
And then after that um, yeah,he was.
He was killed right after he.
He laid prone to try to keep.
I think he was shooting at thefish disc machine gun and then
somebody you know got a shotthat that that ended up killing
him.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Wow, the, the horror and also pride that in him, of
course, that you and your familyhad to have been feeling at
hearing all of this, because isthat is a lot, that is a lot to
envision, that's a lot to hear,that's a lot to process.
(24:43):
Um, I can't even fathom howthat must have felt for your
family.
How long from the time thatjohn was killed was it before
you actually got the full story?
And did you and your familyalready suspect there were
things like what was thattimeline where things kind of
(25:05):
started evolving into somethingdifferent, where you had to
question so, immediately afterit all happened, we were
basically told they landed onthe mountain, he killed two
people and he was shot andkilled.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So basically, you know, like bing bang, boom, he's
done and he's now a footnote Um, and we all I mean I haven't
talked to all, I haven't talkedto my sister and my brother
about, um, what their feelingwas, um, but I know my mom and I
were like there's somethingmore to this, there has to be
something.
Yes, especially my mom, becauseshe wanted to know from his
(25:40):
commander did he suffer, did hedie immediately?
And she was told he diedimmediately, which is true, he
died immediately with that lastshot, but he didn't, you know,
he lived for an hour and a halfan hour and 20 minutes after
they left him.
Now, I'm not saying that thecommander knew that at the time,
right after it happened, Idon't know um, but and then it
(26:02):
took, it was just like intrickles, like you know, I we
talked, because my husband wasthe first sergeant of that unit.
So, okay, yeah, that's how Imet him was through john's death
, but, um, you know, so therewas, we still had that
connection in in there.
You know, if I had just been asister with no connection to the
unit at all.
We probably there might have.
I don't know if we would haveknown half of this stuff.
(26:24):
I don't know, um, but peoplestarted saying, hey, this is
there's no way, this is wrong.
You know people within thecommunity saying, you know,
chappie didn't die right awayand because, um, there was
another combat controller onanother mountain after the SEALs
left and John came up on theradio and he had a specific
combat controller, specificwhatever you call it, call sign,
(26:50):
and they were Mako 30.
He was Mako 30, charlie.
He was the Charlie because ofthe combat controller.
And so John came up on theradio.
I want to say, uh, maybe 10 toa dozen times.
You know any station, anystation, this is Mako three,
zero Charlie, and a combatcontroller on another mountain
heard him and he, you know hehad worked with John, he knew
that, he knew John's voice, heknew how he spoke and um, and he
(27:13):
would respond and, and knew howhe spoke and um, and he would
respond and, and, just, forwhatever reason, john either
couldn't or or didn't respondback whenever whenever Jay, uh,
you know, answered him.
So, and that was after the guysleft, um, so there's that proof
.
You know, there were just littlethings that started coming out,
like he, his body was found notwhere the team leader said that
(27:36):
he left them, you know.
And he what?
And so neil's body.
They had a few hours with himand so he, he was stripped of
most of his clothing and he was.
You know, they did things tohim.
John didn't have any mutilation, he didn't, he wasn't stripped,
they didn't have time.
So, I'm OK, they, they had thistime between when the SEALs
(27:57):
left and the and the Rangersfinally came in after the QRF.
They, they would have done thesame thing to John and he was
not touched.
So, you know, in my mind I'mlike they didn't have time to do
it, you know.
So, you know, there was just alot of things that didn't make
sense.
And then the lies well, Ichecked him.
Well, how did you check him?
Well, I rolled over him.
And then, you know, then it waswell, I, I checked him, I
(28:21):
checked his pulse, or oh, therewas a laser, a stupid story
about a laser from his weaponlaying on.
You know, first it was movingand then it wasn't moving, I
mean, so the story kept himbasically yeah and and yeah, and
they were pretty stupid, so youknow's like we're not dumb.
So it started coming out alittle bit at a time and I got
(28:42):
married to Kenny and he got tosee both sides of losing a troop
and then seeing the pain of thefamily.
Like you know, he lived bothsides and we were talking and we
tried everything we could backin I want to say 05, 06 to get
him get his Air Force crossupgraded or at least looked at
(29:05):
for an upgrade, and we just keptgetting shot down like
immediately, like immediately,and we're like, ok, there's
something going on here, thatit's, that it's this fast.
And so John had a ship namedafter him in I want to say it
was 06, and general jumper wasthere and jumper knew that kenny
was married to john's sister,and so kenny went up to him and
(29:27):
said hey, you know, um, what doyou think about having this,
having looking, looking intohaving his upgraded to the medal
of Honor?
And Jumper said to Kenny again,knowing that he's married to
John's sister, the Chapmanfamily has been very easy to
work with, so let's not makewaves, wow.
That to me was like you know,full confirmation that there's
(29:49):
more.
You know.
And then that's go ahead.
I'm sorry, no, no go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I'm sorry, no, no, go ahead.
So that's almost in a nutshellthat this all it's all because
they didn't want this incidentlooked at.
That's the whole reason, right,why the Medal of Honor upgrade
was not happening, why they werejust stonewalling you, because
they did not want eyes on anyscrutiny on what really happened
(30:16):
, right right, and they is notthe air force, they in the, in
the seals, they did not, youknow, because for them it's all
about the brand that you know.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You know we are, we are navy seals and we, which is
completely not true um, they'rehuman beings and they always
make mistakes.
And so you, you know, as from afamily perspective and I think
I feel like I speak for prettymuch every family who's lost
someone in war or not Just, allwe want is the truth.
(30:47):
Tell us the truth.
If our person male, female,whatever if they screwed up,
then we want to know If he orshe was a hero.
We want to know that too.
We don't want it know if, if heor she was a hero, we want to
know that too.
We don't want it to besuppressed, we don't.
Neil roberts was a hero.
They didn't even celebratetheir own guy, you know, because
in doing so it would have.
It's just.
It blows my mind that this, themany, the people, that they
(31:09):
don't care who they hurt, aslong as it keeps their brand,
you know, shiny, I don't know.
And american people are sogullible, you know, everybody's
like oh well, they're needySEALs, so they would.
Or military doesn't even haveto be SEALs.
So they're above board and theywould never lie.
I mean, look at Pat Tillman'sfamily.
They were lied to, you know,and it's just tell us the truth.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah, you uh, in undertaking all of this and,
you know, just being exposed toit and then advocating the way
that you have, that obviouslymust have drawn so many more
military families who wentthrough or are going through
similar things as this.
(31:51):
Did you find that there were alot of people coming to you and
saying and sharing their ownstories and sharing their own
questions and asking maybe evenfor your help in, you know,
writing these grievous wrongs?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I didn't really get.
I mean, I start, I didn't start.
I entered or joined a Facebookpage that was a Gold Star
Siblings for a while and therewere some sisters who reached
out to me, you know, withdifferent grievances, some of it
with whatever branch it wasthat their you know their
sibling had was in.
Some of it had to do with morepersonal things, like the what
(32:31):
do you call it?
Pnok, the primary nexapin,which is at the.
You know, the ones that came tome were the ones who had
spouses, who had in-laws,sister-in-laws, and how they
were treated in that respect.
So you know, that was a bigthing for on that, on that site.
But I didn't really have a lotof people I mean, cause I was
(32:54):
still fighting my fight have alot of people because I was
still fighting my fight and alot of them.
I think they they just acceptedwhat they were told and I don't
know, I feel like there are alot out there whose story is not
quite what you think it is.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I feel like they lie about it for no apparent reason.
You know, like it's just likethe knee jerk reaction, like you
heard about things in Vietnam.
Or you know somebody, somebodywent off the off the reservation
, but you know they were.
The family was told well, hesaved a whole platoon.
You know, and it's like justtell the truth.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Right.
I don't know, yeah, no, I agreewith you and I can certainly see
, you know, I can certainlyunderstand families just wanting
to take the the best possibleversion and and leaving it that
at that.
But you know there's and thenthere's people like you and your
mom that are, you know, justtruth.
(33:45):
Truth comes before everythingand you know, and it's really a
testament to your fortitude andmy gosh, especially your mom,
you know, as a mother, to tohear those things.
You know, again, I always putmyself in that mindset of how
would I feel, how would I react,what would I think, what I do.
None of us know, certainly forreal, until they're faced with
(34:05):
it.
So I commend you so much becausethere are other families and
other military families who havehad that gut check as well.
That said, something's notright here and I think your
story and the way that you havehandled this and pursued this, I
think it is such anencouragement and almost like a
(34:26):
guidebook of how to right, youknow, to be like, okay, wait a
minute, this is the steps thatthey went through, these are the
things that they said and didand you know, and really just
putting the pressure on andputting the spotlight on and
obviously that tenacity, thatperseverance, it finally paid
off with that deserved medal ofhonor.
(34:48):
Take me through, if you will,that, just that, the feeling,
the emotions of that, theeverything of getting finally
that for John.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
So, just so everyone knows, our efforts to get his
Air Force Cross looked at forthe Medal of Honor went nowhere.
We had nothing to do with theultimate him ultimately being
awarded the Medal of Honor.
What happened was back in, Iwant to say, 2014-ish.
Then Secretary of the Air Force, Deborah James was reading an
article in the military time orAir Force Times that asked what
(35:23):
does an airman need to do toreceive a Medal of Honor Because
there hadn't been one sinceVietnam.
An airman, not like a pilot oranything.
And so she said, hmm, let'sfind out.
And so she tasked her peoplewith finding I don't know 10 or
12 names of people who wouldhave been awarded something, but
maybe it should have been themedal of honor and john's name
(35:44):
floated to the top, and um, sothen ultimately it was, he was
chosen as the one to let's,let's prove this, let's make it
happen, and um, so then theprocess went on from there and,
uh, the seals, they triedeverything they could do to
squash john's metal, likeeverything they could think of,
you know.
(36:04):
And when it didn't work, theydecided to.
So so there's a whole big thing.
So, rob, rob harrison, was inthe um, the ac-130 that was
flying overhead and recording.
So he was an ear and eyewitnessto the whole thing and he was
tasked he was on the Medal ofHonor task force to prove the
medal.
So he knew everything that wasgoing on and he was in a room.
(36:29):
They were in a meeting that wasa.
It was just here.
We're just gonna show you this.
We don't have to do this.
We're just going to show youthis.
We don't have to do this, we'rejust going to do it anyway,
just so you know what we have.
And even in the meetings theywere like that, that didn't
happen that way.
Or when he said you know, youknow we're talking about John
(36:49):
and his, his call sign.
And you know they're like, hey,didn't you use that call sign?
Yeah, I think I used that callsign too.
Like no, they didn't, but theywere already doing that.
And then, at some point in time, this Jeremy Williams was a.
I don't know if he was acommander, I don't know what he
was.
As far as I'm concerned, he wasjust a turd.
(37:10):
But he leaned back and lookedat the team leader and said well
, we should just put you in forthe Medal of Honor, which is
what they ultimately did.
And so, yeah, if you read hiscitation, the actions that he's
credited with on his citationwere actually John's.
So if you look at the video,that was another thing.
What happened, how John wasactually awarded, it was because
(37:38):
, so, there was a CIA droneflying overhead, overhead, when
the battle happened, and thenthere was the ac-130 flying
overhead.
Well, when, um, and we didn't,we knew there was a video, but
no one ever.
We couldn't see it for years,um, and then the medal of honor
group was able to take the video.
So there was there were somegaps in the the uh cia drone
video because I guess probablybecause they were circling, so
there might were some gaps inthe CIA drone video because I
guess probably because they werecircling, so there might be
(37:59):
some gaps.
Well, the AC-130 had theirvideo and they were able to fill
in the gaps Like this, you know, because they didn't.
However, it happened, they werestill able to see the entire
thing and so that's how they hadthe video to prove John's first
Medal of Honor with video proofand he ended up being the first
(38:22):
enlisted Air Force Medal ofHonor since Vietnam.
But it just took a lot and theyall tried to.
So when John was awarded the AirForce Cross, they had three I
want to say three after actionreports or three eyewitness
statements is what it was bythree teammates for for the air
force cross.
They weren't signed becausethey were downrange or they were
somewhere, so they wereelectronically sent.
(38:43):
So they they weren't like,physically signed.
The air force asked them tosign their, just ask them to
sign their, their statementsfrom the air force cross thing,
and they refused to sign them,like no, not signing them.
There were just so many thingsthat they did to try to.
Oh, he went against orders andhe did this and he did that.
He saved your lives, people.
(39:03):
He did what he was supposed todo.
He attacked the attackers, youknow.
Yes, he was a combat controller.
Yes, he was supposed to call inairstrikes or set up comms, but
that wasn't the mission.
At that point in in time, themission was finding neil and and
and even if john had to set upcomms, he had to reach higher
ground.
He had to.
He had to do something otherthan staying there fighting with
(39:24):
the, with the helicopter.
He had to move to higher groundanyway.
So everything that they've saidis just fiction, bullshit,
really.
And and and, and, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, you have been so fearlessly bold in calling
out by name these people whoreally did a disservice, more
than a disservice.
That's such an understatementto your brother and to your
family and to his memory andagainst their own honor.
Really, I'm curious have any ofthem ever responded or reacted
(39:58):
to you, publicly or privately,positively or negatively, in
response to any of this?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Well, I don't know, I guess we haven't talked about
the museum thing.
But, and so I have this NavySEAL.
So I say turd, because in theircommunity that's a really bad
thing to be called.
But I really truly believe thatthese people are certain ones.
So there's a Navy SEAL inCalifornia who's trying to make
(40:28):
a documentary of the fiction andhe's been trying to get in
touch with me.
Um, for his own nefariousreasons, you know, get me on
video, get or get me on tapesaying something.
And then he can say you know,well, John's sister actually
talked to me, or, you know, orhe could take what I say and
(40:48):
twist it and edit it or whateverit is.
Um, so he's tried.
Um, and I did talk to him acouple years ago when he first,
when I had no clue, you know,and he and I I just told him
back then I don't trust you, youknow, you're Navy SEAL, you
know he even admitted, you know,I might have a, I might have a
slant towards the Navy SEALs,what you think you know.
So he was, he was just a lapdogfor, for the, for the guys, for
(41:13):
the higher up dudes that arepulling the strings, and I'm not
afraid to say their names,because they have to be spoken,
because we're not the onlyfamily that has been affected by
these people.
I mean, 12, 10 years after John,Commander Joe Price was
murdered, murdered.
He was a commander of SEAL Team4.
He was murdered by his own menat the order of someone who was
(41:37):
also involved in John's, TimSzymanski.
He was the one who forced themission for John and he was the
commander or above CommanderPrice.
Yeah, so this has to be, it hasto be stopped.
People have to know their names, they have to hear the stories
of all these families who are,who are destroyed because of
(42:00):
these, of these, this faction ofevil, corrupt navy seals.
Um, you know, logan melgar wasmurdered by navy seals and I
mean everybody knows that he wasmurdered and yet nothing
happened to these guys.
You know, initially the armywas investigating that and they
said well, it's because he foundout that they were stealing
(42:21):
money from the you know they'resent over with a whole bunch of
money that they were stealingmoney.
And then the Navy took over theinvestigation and all of a
sudden it was a hazing accidentgone wrong and so nobody got.
You know, and it's like it'sjust disgusting and it has to
stop, and, and I feel like theonly way for it to stop is to
start saying their names.
You know the guy John's teamleader, Brent Kelly Slabinski,
(42:44):
is.
I mean, he has a big hand inwhat happened with the, the
Medal of Honor Museum and I mean, I don't know how.
I just don't know how they sleepat night.
I mean, they have no souls.
I pray, I pray and it's hardfor me to pray for them, but I
pray that that God enters theirhearts and their souls because,
or helps them regain their souls, because if he's in their
(43:08):
hearts they can't be doing whatthey're doing.
You know, one of them adifferent guy, navy SEAL, you
know said oh my God, he said heinvoked God and I'm like, if you
truly had God in your heart,you could not do what you're
doing.
Yeah, so, and it's again, it'svery hard for me to pray for
(43:29):
them, but I do.
I pray that they, that Godhelps them wrench their souls
back from the devil.
And I know there's some peopleout there who probably be like
oh, she sounds like a crazy nut,but I truly believe that you
know, if they had God in theirhearts, they couldn't do what
they're doing.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, I think.
Personally, as a Christian, Ithink that is probably one of
the hardest things to do.
One of the hardest things to do, which is, instead of cursing
the people who have done youwrong or done grievous wrongs,
instead of cursing them, to prayfor them.
I find that to be one of mygreatest challenges and I
(44:09):
commend you so much for diggingso deep to find that ability to
offer that kind of grace whenthe us in us would rather punch
him in the face.
Let's call it what it is.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
We'd rather throw a punch and then preach to him.
That's exactly what I said.
I'd rather throw a punch at him, and don't get me wrong.
And I had to talk to my pastorabout this because I was so
conflicted Like I don't know howto forgive.
I'm not there.
I don't know if I'll everforgive, but I can still pray
for them.
And I was conflicted withtrying to find that but also
(44:48):
really feeling the need tocontinue to tell the story
because more families are beingdestroyed because of them, and
so I feel like there's not justthis for me to pray for them or
try to find some kind offorgiveness, but it's also I
don't know why I've asked God tomake sure.
(45:09):
Am I on the right path?
Am I supposed to be doing this?
And I've never had to know.
So you know, my pastor was likeyou can have the two.
Things can coexist.
You can want to speak the truthand try to forgive them.
You know you can do the bothAbsolutely, and so I'm really
conflicted about all of that.
Yeah, and I think that's.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I think that is more than okay, that's, that's so
human and understandable.
And I think the biggesttakeaway from everything that
you just said was your desire tokind of reconcile those
feelings and to still powerthrough all of that which makes
us so human and ourselves, andbring that faith into it and ask
(45:55):
God to work through you to helpyou through that.
And I think that's soincredible and it's funny.
One of the last questions I wasgoing to ask you, I was going
to say I'm going to read itanyway.
I was going to say, if John'sstory helps reshape how we honor
fallen heroes or hold certainleaders accountable, what kind
of change would you most want tosee in the next few years?
And I feel like you partlyanswered that already.
(46:17):
It's, you know it's thetransparency and bringing to
light the things that are in thedark.
And then you know your gracepart speak a little bit more and
better than I did on that,please.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yeah.
So, like I said, the truth justneeds to be told.
Just good, bad, ugly, whatever,just tell the truth.
It's just let's just stop, youknow.
And then they always get caught.
You know, pat tillman, theyfinally got caught.
You're lying.
You know all these otherstories.
You got caught.
You're lying like let's, can wejust stop, um.
But there also has to be and Idon't know how this happens, and
I know there were people withinthe seal community and I and
(46:53):
I'm not saying that the SEALcommunity is the only community
that has bad actors, I'm notsaying that and I also am saying
that not all SEALs are bad Ihave yet to meet.
I have two guys, two guys thatI would probably trust, you know
, one I'm Facebook friends withand one I just know, um.
But um, I've been just so jadedby the whole thing that, you
(47:18):
know, if I hear someone say, oh,my brother's a Navy SEAL, I
mean I'm immediately like, oh,well, then he's a piece of crap,
you know, and it might not befair, but that's my all every
dealing that I've had with theNavy SEALs.
Um, even even I, I um, what'shis name?
Ryan zinke.
He's a representative frommontana.
He called me when you, I didn'ttell you, you know, he called
(47:39):
me trying to smooth things over,things over with the museum
thing, and he was such anarrogant dick like he thought he
was just gonna swoop in thereand have a phone call with me
and smooth things over.
And and then when he, when I, Imean I got heated, I got upset,
you know, pissed.
I'm like, well, you're tellingme that this is okay, you.
And then when he, when I, Imean I got heated, I got, you
know, pissed.
I'm like, well, you're tellingme that this is okay, you know.
And then he would like turntail and ran.
He's like, well, I can seeyou're upset, I think we should
(48:00):
end the call.
You know, I'm like, is thatwhat you do with your
constituents?
They get pissed at you, soyou'll turn around and run, like
I mean that'm getting into that.
But so I think I started to saybefore I did the caveat of you
(48:20):
know, not the not everyone's abad seal and not not every other
branch is perfect either.
But I feel like the onus is alot on each, each group, each
branch, each, even in just downto a small.
Why would you have?
You know, everybody talks aboutthis brotherhood or we're this
great brotherhood.
Why would you want anyone inyour brotherhood who could
tarnish your brand, tarnish yourtrident tarnish, whatever your
(48:44):
symbol is?
Why would you do that?
Why would you accept that?
And I know that there wassomebody within the SEAL
community that was trying toclean things up in SEAL Team 6.
And he got ousted.
You know, know, and it's likeright, because there's this
group that's that's growingstronger and has a lot of so I
don't know, if you read the bookum code over country by matthew
(49:07):
cole and he delves into the,you know where seal team six
started with marchenko in the70s and talks about this stanley
penny in one of the very firstchapters and what they did to
him.
If you read nothing else ofthat book, read what they did to
him.
And that's the type of thingthat they do for especially the
weaker ones to control them.
(49:28):
They get them in compromisingsituations, they take
photographs, they do things likethis so now they own you.
You either leave or you do whatthey tell you to do.
And like this so now they ownyou.
You either leave or you do whatthey tell you to do.
And and I know this for a fact,and there was just an article
that a woman uh, was it sethattenant?
Put out on the sub stack andwhere she said that I think it
was three things I wish I knewbefore my son became a navy seal
(49:50):
or tried to be a navy seal.
And she talks about somethingvery similar to that where
it's's like they find a way tocontrol you, and apparently I
don't know.
That's what's going on there.
But so that's what I feel.
Like each service, each group Imean going all the way down to
the smallest group you should bepolicing yourselves.
(50:10):
Why would you want somebody badin your group?
And I was trying to think aboutthis one time, like, okay,
there are brotherhoods andthere's sisterhoods, I really
feel like sisterhoods.
Like if I was in this big groupsisterhood and one or two or
three of them decided to do allthis, hey, let's go rob banks,
whatever I would be like, ohheck, no, you're out.
And not only are you out, I'mcalling the police on you.
(50:31):
You know what I mean.
Like maybe that's.
Well, that doesn't go.
The bro code is you know you're, you don't.
You don't rat your people out,but well, you could at least
kick them out.
You know, if you don't want torat them out, kick them out.
So I feel like there has to besome kind of the joe price
murder.
And yet they're not speakingout.
(50:59):
Yeah, there are people who knowhow bad some of these seals are
.
I mean, there are.
I've talked to controllers,I've talked to pjs who who have
said, yeah, we don't, we neverwanted to be deployed with seals
because they got people injuredor killed because they they
call cowboy it up, it up.
You know, like we can just rollin there and and and just shoot
from the hip, and you know.
So, these people, I know theyhave their lives.
(51:21):
But you know, if you, if allthis is going to be fixed and
cleaned up and and, and you know, wipe the tarnish off the, off
the tridents and everybodyelse's symbols, then they need
to start from within.
And and Unfortunately, with theSEAL faction, a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
You, lori, who you know I would call a reluctant
(51:59):
warrior right Like this, is notthe role that you would have
ever imagined yourself being inor playing, or even having
knowledge of so many differentaspects of this, but it's.
You know, if I dare say, it'salmost like it's the path that
God chose for you to do this,because he must have taken one
look at you and said they arenot going to mess with this one.
(52:22):
So I'm sending her, I amsending her in, and she is going
to be the one, to you know, togo in there and shine this light
on this dark underbelly ofsomething the rest of us only
see the shiny surface of.
So again, you know, I know Isaid it to you before, but I
have so much respect andadmiration for what you do
(52:43):
because I can only imagine howdifficult it has been, and I'm
sure it does not get easier, andI'm sure that the battle that
you fight on behalf of yourbrother and men and women like
him who have had similar thingshappen to them, it must be
exhausting in so many ways.
(53:04):
So I just I commend you beyondthe words that I'm even capable
of.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Thank you, but you know, as you're talking about,
you know, back after, after theMedal of Honor poll thing, you
know watching Slabinski get amedal that he didn't earn and
and it's like I had moved on.
That was 2018, when that wasbecause he, he had to, that was
another thing.
They wanted to make sure thathis was awarded first, but
whatever, it's all about opticsand whatever.
(53:32):
But I had I had kind of movedon, I had, you know, I'm living
my life.
I found my own piece and thenthe whole museum thing happened
and then, once that came about,I just said I'm never going away
, like I'm just, I can't likethis is.
It's so egregious and sodisgusting that, um, I, I, just,
(53:55):
I, I'm, I'm like this one tinylittle voice in in the giant,
you know universe, and mostpeople aren't paying attention
and you know it's sad.
You know there are, I think, Ithink pretty much every navy
seal in the in the congress,which I think is five of them.
You, they all ran on Republicanticket.
Because why?
(54:15):
Because Republicans love themilitary, and you know.
But you know, and again, likeyou said, I know more than I
wish I did.
I'm not going to say all of it.
But yeah, they're not therebecause they want to serve the
country.
They're there for other reasonsand it's sad I don't know how
we got here.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, I know I've said that in so many different ways.
You know as I go on my journeyhere, and news and reporting and
all of the things youunfortunately you know, you see
it, you see it and you can, andit's that discernment that you
know these things.
You hear and read it and see itand it's immediately setting
(54:58):
off those those you know hugered flags like wait a minute, I
can tell already this is notright, this is not what it seems
and you know, while the rest ofthe world is like that's
wonderful, it looks true, itsounds true, they're saying it
so sincerely, so it must be true.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, it's like no, what's wrong with you?
How do you not?
So, yeah, that discernment manit's.
It's a curse and a gift, isn'tit?
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Oh, no lie.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yeah, laurie, tell everyone where they can find the
books and if there is, oh, wedid not talk about First Thayer
Foundation, so please take amoment and share about that, if
you would.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Sure, the First Air Foundation was founded by a man
named Eric Lionheart.
He was a combat controller I'lljust do a quick, you know,
reader's Digest version and hewas retired or had gotten out
and one of his mentors andfriends ultimately took his own
(56:02):
life.
And it was at that moment thatEric said this has to stop.
So he, that night like laidthere and thought about the
mission and everything and thendecided that the mission
statement would be to help hiscombat control family, the
controllers and their families,and so he founded the first
(56:24):
there foundation, and I can'tremember which year.
I think we're in our fifth yearnow.
I wasn't part of it.
In the beginning I didn't knowhim, and now he's just, he's
like my brother, but so we'venow branched out out.
So now it's not just combatcontrollers and their families,
it's all, all military lawenforcement, you know first
responders and their families,mostly to help with mental
(56:46):
health.
Um, we do, we do offer otherthings, like for the controllers
when they get out, like youknow, hey, how to write a resume
for you know the uh, thegeneral, general public or
civilian jobs and things likethat.
So, um, so that we're, we'rethere to help, um, but again,
mostly with mental health and uhand different retreats to help
(57:07):
with that.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
So I love that.
Is there a website?
Do you have a website you can?
We'll put, and we'll put it,guys, we'll.
We will be putting this in theshow notes.
You'll be able to click oneverything and go right First
there, yeah, the number one, stthereorg.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Perfect First thereorg.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, and the books are on Amazon, correct?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Both books are on Amazon Barnes and Noble, I think
first alone at dawn, I believeis you can get it anywhere
whatever bookstore your favorite.
Um, with mine beingself-published, I'm not sure if
they've gone anywhere besidesamazon and barnes and noble.
I have some on myself,obviously because it's
self-publishing.
So I'm under no I've said thisbefore, I'm under no delusion
(57:50):
that somebody would want asigned copy of mine.
You know, just read the book.
But, um, you know, if anyonewanted a signed copy of mine,
you know, just read the book.
But you know, if anyone wanteda signed copy, it's probably
best to buy it from me, so I canjust sign it and mail it
instead of you buy it.
You mail it to me, I mail itback and all that kind of stuff.
But yeah, so that's where theyare Outstanding.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Again, lori, thank you so much for sharing your
time with me, sharing your storyand, of course, john's story,
and all the blessings in theworld to you and your family,
and your husband as well.
Thank him for his service,please.
And yeah, it was so greathaving you on and it was an
honor and a privilege to be ableto share this story with our
(58:27):
audience, so I hope you willconsider coming back again when
you get your first fiction bookmaybe.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
I know right.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Lovely.
I would love that personally,so that would be phenomenal.
So, thank you very much and,guys, thank you all for watching
and we will see you in the nextepisode.
Take care Three.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Four.
Speaker 3 (58:50):
Five, six, seven, eight, seven, five, six, seven,
eight.
One for teamwork who's up, down, up and teamwork.
One for our fallen comrades,who's up, down, up and All
(59:11):
comrades.
And one for our brother JohnChapman, who's up, down, for our
brother John Chapman, who's notdown On offense.
John Chapman Recovered.
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