February 14, 2024 • 64 mins
What does a Spiritual Business Mentor and an Intuitive Eating Counselor have in common? We both want you to feel your body. Lara Days joined me to discuss the the transformative journey of embracing body acceptance, finding joy in movement, and learning to honor your health holistically. Together, we talked about how to discern our body's natural signals for hunger, fullness, and nutritional needs.
This episode was a deep and heartfelt conversation, where we peeled back the layers of our emotional connections with food. We talked about how our eating habits are often a reflection of our coping mechanisms, and how important it is to develop a diverse range of strategies to process our emotions. I shared personal stories of how my husband and I navigate this in our own lives, and we emphasized the profound impact of mindful eating. We also pondered over the significance of our food choices, considering them as more than just sustenance—they are a celebration of culture, emotion, and pleasure.
Lastly, we took a critical look at how generational patterns and societal norms can shape our food behaviors and body image. We shared insights on building interoceptive awareness and the courage to break free from these inherited beliefs around food and bodies to establish a more intuitive relationship with ourselves.
Lara Days is a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor, yoga instructor, and Board Certified Health & Wellness Coach who is on a mission to dismantle the diet industry and empower people to live their happiest, healthiest, most confident lives! Lara focuses on helping you improve your mindset, unlearn your past conditioning, and trust your body so that you can find food freedom, ditch diet culture, and step into your power!
Connect with Lara:
Kat HoSoo Lee is an Emotional Alchemy Coach, Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Emotional Alchemy Podcast.
She loves playing in the space where science and spirituality converge because this is where we get to experience emotional alchemy. In her work, she educates space-holders about somatic physiology and environmental biology so they can deepen their practices of listening and presence which ultimately helps them expand their capacity to hold space for others.
As a Spiritual Business Mentor, she guides soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. The work bridges the emotional landscape with practical tools which allow them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, relational marketing and purposeful service.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Rooted Business Podcast.
Today I've got Lara Deyes andshe is an intuitive eating
counselor and BAM alumni and Ilove her work, I think
personally, because I'm somebodywho has struggled with a lot of
(00:24):
eating habits, coming from themedical industry and being told
this is what healthy food andhealthy eating is, and finding
that actually a lot of thosethings didn't work for me.
So, yeah, I'm really happy tohave you on the show and dive in
and share what your work is allabout and how it really fits
(00:48):
into this bigger framework ofthis movement of listening to
our bodies.
That's where our crossoverhappens with what we talk about
is how can you listen to yourbody?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So, yeah, I'm so excited to be here and, yeah, I
just I loved the work that wedid in BAM because, well,
because I love you, but alsobecause you're so like, I feel
like the whole point of BAM isto help people figure out the
(01:24):
most aligned and intuitive wayto run their own business and,
as you mentioned, the crossoverbetween your work and mine, I
like that's basically what Ihelp people do as it pertains to
food, eating, movement, which,as you know, also bleeds into
other areas of our life.
(01:45):
Right, that's true.
So, coaching is not justbusiness.
Physical health coaching is notjust about physical health.
Yeah, so I'm excited to havethis conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
That's amazing.
So I was actually telling myhusband that I was going to
interview you this morning andhe was like what the heck is an
intuitive eating coach?
So can you, can you start thereand give us a little bit of a
context of what that actuallymeans?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
and yeah, yeah, so he's not alone.
I don't know if he listens toyour episodes, but you're not
alone.
Being an intuitive eatingcounselor essentially means that
I help people relearn how tolisten to and connect with their
(02:36):
bodies so that they can eat andmove and live in a way that is
healthy and aligned for them.
And there is, to his point, alot of confusion around that,
because intuitive eating isthere's like lower case
(02:58):
intuitive eating, which is like,oh, you just eat intuitively
and listen to your body, yes.
And then there's capitalintuitive eating, which is a
specific set of 10 principlesthat were developed by two
registered dietitians back inthe 90s to literally help teach
people how to reconnect withtheir bodies.
A lot of pushback that I get ispeople saying things like well,
(03:21):
I can't feel my hunger andfullness cues, so therefore I
cannot be an intuitive eater.
And it's like well, theframework helps you relearn how
to do that.
Like it's not.
We're not just throwing youinto the deep end.
It's really about eating foodsand amounts of foods that serve
your unique body, instead offollowing meal plans or macros
(03:44):
or doing whatever.
Next diet craze TikTok is, youknow, pushing into your
algorithm or whatever, becauseyour body is not my body, and if
we just eat according to howother people are eating, to
bring it back to the work we doin BAM, that's like just copying
what someone else does in theirbusiness when you guys run
(04:07):
totally different businessesLike that just doesn't make
sense, and so it's reallyintuitive.
Eating is really a set of toolsto help people understand, feel
and interpret the cues thattheir body is giving them and
respect those cues.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I feel like the operative word there is feel.
I think like I'm trying to pullmyself out of the perspective
of somebody who, likeunderstands what it is that you
do and is, like all on boardwith what it is that you do.
And so I'm going to like pokeholes, not because I'm like
trying to be controversial, butbecause I'm trying to put myself
(04:50):
into the context of someone who, like doesn't get it.
And it was so amazing to havethis conversation with my
husband because he was just likeI don't get it, so I'm going to
like just literally use hisquestion.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Tell him thank you for doing that episode.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I feel like he he's like a side interviewer here, so
his thought was okay.
So if I'm allowed to just eat,intuitively, I'm just going to
eat all the potatoes and all thebrownies and all the cake and
drink all the beer, like, if youallow me to just like take the
(05:28):
reins off of my eating.
And he's like a bigger guy, youknow, and he has struggled with
weight off and on for a lot ofhis life.
That is his like quotation mark.
Fear is, if I am allowed,quotation mark allowed to do all
these things, then how do Icome back from from just letting
(05:53):
the little kid in me run theshow?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, so this is a super common question.
I said something to someonerecently about being an
intuitive eating counselor andthey were like so I'll just eat
Mexican food all day.
And I was like okay, well, howdoes that make you feel?
Like, Are you honoring yourhunger and fullness when he's
eating all these potatoes?
Is he honoring his hunger andfullness because those are two
of the intuitive eatingprinciples Is he respecting his
(06:17):
body?
Like, is he eating foods thatmake him feel good and feel
satisfied and don't make himphysically ill?
Right, Because from a lot ofpeople they'll be like well,
I'll just eat cheese all thetime, but I'm lactose intolerant
.
That's not actually eatingintuitively.
If we're eating foods that makeus sick, we're not being
(06:37):
intuitive eaters.
Principle 10 is to honor yourbody with gentle nutrition.
So for only eating potatoes,it's so funny.
I had a former client that waslike I've been honoring all my
cravings and eating bread andbutter and I'm like cool, what
else have you been eating?
She's like well, that's allI've been craving.
And I was like does that followprinciple 10, to honor your
body with gentle nutrition?
(06:58):
And she was like okay, so maybeI haven't been intuitive eating
.
I'm like, yeah, like we, andthis is why having a
comprehensive understanding ofall 10 of the intuitive eating
principles is part of what helpsus kind of wrap our brains
around how it works.
Because, to your husband'spoint, like, yeah, if all you're
(07:19):
eating is potatoes, that's notactually eating intuitively,
because at some point his labwork might not be good, he might
not have a lot of energy, hemight not be sleeping well, His
bowel movements might not beregular and normal, right, and
those are all indicators thatwe're not actually eating in the
way that our body wants us tobe eating.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I think, too, when I look back on my own relationship
and history with food.
I came from an acupuncturebackground.
One of the things that we learnabout and teach about is
nutrition, and at the time thatI was an acupuncturist, like the
(08:01):
gluten-free thing was like allthe rage and everyone was going
gluten-free, particularly in thearea that I was living in in
Santa Cruz, california.
It was just like you go intoany restaurant everything is
gluten-free.
And so I was like very strictwith my dieting and eating.
(08:26):
I would say I was prettyrestrictive in terms of not just
what I allowed myself to eatbut the quantities of food that
I allowed myself to eat.
You know, I wasn't like afollower of the ten tenets of
(08:47):
intuitive eating.
I think I was probably more justpracticing the like lowercase I
intuitive eating.
I was like what would happen ifI just like let myself do that
thing which is like binge outcompletely on, you know, bread
and butter, like sort of to your, your clients point, and what I
found is that I actually didn'tfeel good If I let myself just
(09:11):
like take it to the extreme.
And so it's it's what Iunderstand from having lots of
conversations with you.
It's really about likemoderation and Pulling the guilt
and the shame out of our foodchoices, I feel like is another
big part of the work that you dobeing okay with like not just
(09:33):
okay, but like, like, like,honoring that, like sometimes I
do want to tWicks bar orSometimes I do want to, you know
, drive through McDonald's andget a filet of fish sandwich,
and like that doesn't have to be.
I am, you know, a Bad person orI'm doing this wrong, or I'm a
(09:54):
bad role model, you know.
And so I'm curious if you canspeak to Like these sort of like
pendulum, like cycles that I'msure you've seen lots and lots
of people go through.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I know I think this is just audio, but I
actually bought a littlependulum because I talked about
this so much and I use analogyBecause, yeah, there's a lot of
fear that, oh my god, if I letmyself eat whatever I want, like
I'm only gonna eat donuts andcookies and pizza and chips and
(10:26):
Flai fish and whatever.
And honestly, at first thatmight happen, because the
psychological and physiologicalmechanism behind restriction is
that we have cravings.
We usually end up binging andthat's like part of the irony of
dieting is that restrictionactually creates the cravings
(10:50):
and the binging.
And so at first that pendulummight swing really far to one
side where Maybe we don't toucha vegetable for three days and
we eat all of these reallycalorie dense, high sugar, high
fat, high salt foods Like hyperpalatable foods.
But, as you said earlier,eventually you're not gonna feel
(11:10):
good and this sometimes happensto me.
I give this example andsometimes people can resonate.
Um, when I go on vacation, a lotof times I'm eating foods that
I don't don't normally eat.
Depending on where I am, itmight be some more of those
hyper palatable foods, morealcohol, that kind of thing.
When I get home, my bodyliterally will crave Like
(11:32):
vegetables and my friends andwe'll go get like Kava bowls.
I don't know if people haveKava where they're located, but
it's like a big bowl of you get.
You can get like rice and be.
It's like Chipotle, but kindmore Mediterranean and less
Mexican food.
But you just like pile up, willgo pile up.
You know corn and cabbage andcucumber and all of these things
(11:52):
, because that is what our bodyis craving after not having what
felt like enough of that Whilewe were gone.
The same thing will happen andit might be a little bit of a
pendulum swing for a while untilyou find your happy medium, and
I actually don't.
This is very controversial, butI hate the word moderation as
(12:12):
it pertains to food, becausethat can turn into another rule
where it's like well, how muchis moderation?
Is One scoop of ice creammoderation?
What if I want more than onescoop?
Then it feels like restrictionagain.
Right, and so I I viewmoderation as a form of
restriction because it's justanother label and food rule.
(12:34):
So really it's about releasingany sort of expectations and
just letting your body make thecall and being okay with
whatever call that makes,whether it's a filet of fish,
whether it's a salad right.
And the other thing that can bereally hard for people who have
been on this diet roller coasteris Understanding that diet
(12:57):
culture does not own salads,they do not own smoothies, they
do not own nutrient dense foodslike you can still eat those
things and it does not mean thatyou're dieting.
And that's the other thing thatcomes up.
For people who have experienceda lot of guilt and shame around
eating is like they feel likethey have to eat all of these
hyper palatable foods and it'slike no, that's also not eating
(13:21):
intuitively.
Intuitive eating means maybeyou wake up and you make oatmeal
for breakfast, you have somechicken sausage on the side, you
go to lunch and your friendwants to get burgers and so you
get burgers and then you gethome and later for dinner You're
like, mmm, a salad sounds kindof good, so you have that and
then you realize you're notreally satisfied and so you have
(13:43):
some fries on the side and thenmaybe you want something sweet,
so you take out the ice creamand have like three bites if
that's what you want, or thewhole pint if that's really what
you want.
Like it's gonna look differentevery day.
And Another thing that peopledon't really consider when
especially and disclaimer Icounted macros for five years,
(14:04):
like pretty religiously when Iwas doing competitive sports,
and the funny thing about thatis like we have this idea that
we should eat the same amount offood every day, and that's just
not how bodies work.
If we are Louncing on the couchall day, we're probably not
(14:27):
gonna be as hungry as a day thatwe run a marathon Like.
That just doesn't make sensethat we would eat the same
amount of food every day, andSometimes it's things we don't
even notice, like if we'rerecovering from being sick, we
might be way hungrier thannormal because our body
literally needs more energy torecover from illness and injury,
(14:48):
and so this is another reasonthat really learning to Feel and
Interpret and respect yourbody's cues is like actually a
way bigger flex than havingquote-unquote Discipline and
following a regimented diet,because we can all do that.
That's not actually hard.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, there's a couple pieces that I want to
like circle back and like dig alittle bit deeper into, because,
as you were speaking, I justhad this like image pop up of an
iceberg.
I feel like this image pops upa lot for me, where it's like
intuitive eating is like thevery top of the iceberg, but you
can see above the water.
But then underneath, I was likeconnection to body and
(15:31):
Acceptance are the two bigthings.
That sort of like popped up forme, because it's like, yeah, we
can look at you know, you or I,you know, look Approaching food
from an intuitive place, butwhat's underneath the surface?
There is an acceptance and ourconnection to our bodies and
that's like that deep, deeplevel work that I think is
(15:52):
missing in a lot of Diet culture, even just in the ways that
people talk about how to eathealthy, because it's like a how
do you feel connected to yourbody?
You know what are like?
Are you actually listening tothose signals from the body?
And again, this is where, like,our work intersects is.
(16:15):
You know, sometimes in business, that thing that everyone else
is doing is not going to feelGood in your body to do and so
can you do the brave thing,which is actually listen to the
signals in your body, to makedecisions that are appropriate
for your business.
And I'm hearing, in the waythat you're talking about it,
it's like can you listen to thesignals of hunger and cravings
(16:38):
and and look at the context ofyour life and be like, hey, like
I'm running a marathon today orI'm recovering from an illness
today, maybe my body knows alittle bit more about this and
has a little bit more wisdomabout this than my Gigantic
brain knows what to do with.
You know, and when we startmoving our decisions away from
(16:59):
Our brains and into our bodies,something shifts, and so I'm
kind of wanting to like explorewhat that place is.
So that's the first like bigpiece underneath the iceberg for
me.
And then the second piece is Istruggled with weight my entire
life.
I, you know, grew up inCalifornia, where there's like a
(17:21):
certain level of, like a beautystandard, and particularly like
I feel like the Korean culturehas an expectation of a man
being petite and small andReally thin.
I mean, when I go to Korea, I Iwalk down the street and like I
(17:41):
look and feel like an obeseperson, even though I'm at a
healthy weight for my frame andmy body and I feel really,
really comfortable in myself.
But I definitely get looks whenI when I walk around Korea, and
so like having those kinds ofpressures, I think, forced me to
(18:02):
think about my ideal weightfrom brain space as being closer
to 110 120, and what actuallyis healthy for me is like 160
170, and part of the acceptanceof Like intuitive eating is
being like, hey, I'm going tolet my body choose what weight
(18:24):
it wants to be at and I feelreally strong at 160, versus
like when I was one.
I would say like 120 ish waslast weight I remember because I
don't have a scale anymore LikeI was hungry all the time.
I, you know, was tired all thetime.
I was anemic, like there weresignals coming from my body
(18:48):
saying that I'm not happy, youknow, and so I'm just gonna
throw that on the table and andGo play with it.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, no, I love that you shared this and it made me
think that it probably would bein service of Whoever's
listening for me to at least,like, read through the ten
principles, because, all of that, there's one for all of these
scenarios, right?
So Principle one is to rejectthe diet mentality.
(19:18):
I think that one's prettyobvious, like we have to stop
dieting in order to listen toour intuition.
Principle two is to honor yourhunger.
This means Maybe notintermittent fasting.
If you wake up hungry everymorning, that's your body
telling you it needs to eat, andlooking at hunger as what it is
, which is a physiological cuefrom your body that it needs
energy.
And principle three is to makepeace with food, which we talked
(19:42):
about regarding the pendulumswing and just looking at all
foods as morally neutral.
Principle four is to challengethe food police, and that might
be the brain in your head that'stelling you things like oh, you
shouldn't eat, that that's notquote-unquote healthy, you are
too big, whatever that lookslike.
Principle five is to feel yourfullness.
(20:04):
Principle five and six kind ofgo together feel your fullness
and discover the satisfactionfactor which we can come back to
if that comes up.
Principle seven is to cope withyour emotions without using
food, so learning how toactually cope with feelings.
Principle eight is to respectyour body.
This one is really about whatwe were just talking about,
(20:27):
which is, or what you were justsharing about, which is to honor
your own unique geneticblueprint the same way that we.
I Don't think I've ever heardsomeone say, well, I'm a, I'm a
shoe size eight, but I'm notgonna buy new shoes until I miss
six and a half Like thatliterally makes no sense, but we
(20:48):
do that with our bodies all thetime.
Principle nine is Exercise.
Feel the difference that one'sreally just about moving in ways
that feel joyful, instead ofmoving in order to, like, burn
calories or change the the shapeof your body.
And principle ten I mentionedearlier, which is to honor your
health with gentle nutrition.
(21:08):
So all of those come togetherto create this experience of
actually eating intuitively.
And I was thinking while youwere sharing about how,
unfortunately, one of thebiggest how do I want to say
this, one of the biggest, one ofthe places that people
(21:33):
experience the most weightstigma is at the doctor and by
their healthcare providers, andit's because they're using
antiquated diagrams or littletables or whatever.
They're using BMI, which wasnever meant to be an individual
(21:55):
health metric.
It was meant to measurepopulations.
Also, fun fact, they changedthe BMI scale, so there was this
big uproar.
I always forget what year it is.
I can look and get back to youif it feels important when
everyone was like, oh my God,then obesity rates are exploding
(22:16):
and it's because they literallychanged the classifications of
which bodies are consideredobese.
It's not because people got anybigger, which is like people
don't want to talk about that.
They want to just say thateveryone's lazy and eating too
much McDonald's, because that'sreally easy.
And I totally lost my train ofthought.
(22:38):
Oh, healthcare providers, yeah,weight is not a health indicator
.
Weight is also not a behavior,and this is why weight loss
goals are actually super whack,because weight is not a behavior
.
It is not something that wecontrol.
If we are truly wanting toimprove our health, then we need
(23:03):
to look at health promotingbehaviors.
Am I moving my body?
Am I sleeping seven to ninehours every night?
Am I cultivating meaningful,deep relationships with people?
Am I managing my stress?
Am I hydrating well?
Am I eating a variety of foodsthat are both physically
satiating and also satisfyingand make me happy Like those are
(23:27):
behaviors that we can actuallycontrol.
Weight is not Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I think part of that is this concept of
acceptance.
You know, because, sort of toyour point there, when I look at
my life now like I was sort oflike going through that
(23:56):
checklist alongside you as youwere saying that like one of the
biggest things that's changedfor me is that, like having this
land, having this property,there's always shit to do and
I'm always moving my body.
And you know, I think that oneof the things that doesn't get
talked about enough is, like, doyou move your body in ways that
(24:18):
feel joyful for you?
Because I hate going to the gym, like it is like a capital H
hate.
Like I do not like being insideperiod, like if I can just
spend my entire day outside,that's my preference.
And so now you're telling me Ihave to like be inside, to like
move my body.
(24:38):
No, no, thank you no you'reabsolutely right, yeah, but it's
like I spend my day moving.
Like today I moved horse poop,today I moved a bunch of wood
that I found around the propertyso that I can build up my
garden beds.
You know, like these are thethings that bring me joy in my
(25:02):
life, and so I'm always askingpeople like, like hey, if you
don't like doing that thing,then why do you continue doing
that?
Like, can we find something foryou that is actually enjoyable,
instead of having the like theexercise you know whether it's a
physical activity or like I'meven relating it to business.
(25:22):
It's like, if you don't want tobe on Instagram, like that's
not the only way to like attractpeople in right.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I was literally just gonna say that, like that
analogy like you have an emaillist, you can go to in-person
networking events, you can be onInstagram, you can be on TikTok
.
I love this because it is likeit's exactly the same with
movement.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah cause it's like, yeah, like you might get a
particular result, but like youhave this one life to live,
you've got one body.
Girl like like why are youdoing things in a way that feels
really unpleasant to you?
you know, and so, yeah, I thinkthat that feels like an
(26:07):
important piece to just sort oflike give people the permission,
the autonomy, to choose notjust what foods they eat.
Cause of what I'm hearing isit's not just about, like,
intuitive eating is not yourthing, right, it's like the
whole holistic ways in which yourelate to your body, and so I
(26:28):
feel like calling yourself anintuitive eating counselor is a
little bit of a misnomer,because you're, I'm sure, like
in sessions, you're askingpeople about their lifestyles
and how they move and how theytake up space and how they're
processing emotions and like allof these things, which I feel
like is a more holistic way oflooking at this relationship
that you have with your body.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And it is, and I have no idea ever like really what
to call myself because of that,which is a whole other
conversation.
But you're exactly right and Ithink it's probably worth saying
too that a lot of the folks whohave really big followings on
social media and who talk aboutquote, unquote health, they're
(27:12):
looking at these like little,these two little pieces of
health which are food andmovement.
They are not taking acomprehensive approach to health
.
And this is really importantand it's I mean honestly.
I'm a board certified healthand wellness coach as well and,
(27:34):
like we talked about holistichealth also, which is this idea
I shouldn't even call it an idea.
It's a fact, this fact that,like financial health, emotional
health, mental health,existential health,
environmental health, physicalhealth, they all impact one
another because we are only onehuman living in one body, having
(27:57):
one human experience.
And this is where things likeweight stigma get really tricky,
because this society is notnice to fat people and it can be
really hard.
It's really hard for anyone whohas struggled with their
relationship with food to starttrusting their bodies.
(28:17):
But it's even harder when youare someone who's genetic
blueprint is big and you're like, well, now this is what I'm
stuck with and people treat melike shit.
Yeah, like I wish I had a betteranswer to that.
I'm trying to make a biggerimpact, but like that's just.
That is the truth.
(28:38):
And it's so interesting whenyou see people talk about like,
oh well, that person's justnaturally skinny and they have
like a really fast metabolism.
Why is it so hard for you tobelieve, then, that this other
person isn't just naturally fat?
It goes both ways.
It's not only true for acertain body type.
(29:01):
Bodies are different, they arevaried, and that is a great
thing.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think we've been talking a lot about
like allowing, I guess, likebeing permissive with our food,
and I wanna go to the other endof the pendulum, which is like
(29:27):
people who have struggled withlike maybe restricting so much
to the point that like or I'mtrying to edit this, trying to
figure out how to make this moreclear so I feel like we've been
(29:53):
talking a lot about how, like,we can be permissive with food.
So that's like one end of thependulum.
What about people who do needto like?
I'm thinking about my husbandin this instance, right, like he
and I have had like a reallybeautiful conversation recently
actually, about how, growing up,he grew up in a really chaotic
(30:15):
childhood environment and sofood was a comfort.
It was this like friend hecould always rely on, and I
think one of the tenants thatyou talked about is to not
emotionally eat, and so how canwe sort of like touch on that
end of the pendulum and that endof the spectrum of folks who
are perhaps struggling with like?
(30:36):
I don't know what my intuitivesense of eating is, because,
like part of my intuition issaying that this is the one
comfort that I have and that Ineed to reach for this comfort.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Totally so.
A couple of things I wanna justcall out before I get into
answering your actual question,because it's important is that
there are things that are goingto create extra barriers to
becoming an intuitive eater.
Passive or history of eatingdisorders is one.
(31:08):
Trauma is one especially traumathat revolves around like
feeling your actual body andwhat's going on in your body.
One is kind of like what yourhusband dealt with, which is
very common, is that food hasalways been the go to coping
(31:29):
mechanism.
Neurodiversity, adhd, makes itreally hard to be an intuitive
eater and I have helped peoplewith all of these barriers still
become intuitive eaters.
So I'm not saying that so thatyou feel like, oh my God, it's
impossible for me I'm sayingthat to validate that like it's
going to be harder for somepeople than others.
(31:50):
So generally in these scenarioswhere food was like quite
literally our best friend andour comfort, we don't.
There are different.
Also caveat, individualdifferences are going to matter
(32:12):
Right, like there's not one wayto deal with this.
I think part of this is justlooking at have you ever
actually sat with your emotionsand not used a coping mechanism?
That is part of the practice.
Is like okay, even if it's notfor very long, right, like they
say 90 seconds, but can you makeit five seconds, can you make
(32:35):
it 10 seconds, can you make it15 seconds?
And just increasing the amountof time that you're sitting with
whatever emotion feels reallyuncomfortable and building your
own resilience for sitting inthat emotion.
It's going to be huge.
(32:55):
The other thing that can bereally helpful is building what
I call our toolbox of copingmechanisms or stress management
tools.
So what else makes you feelreally good, is it?
And then I mean there's a lotof overlap here when we talk
about stress management versuscoping mechanisms, versus
(33:16):
nervous system regulation tools.
A lot of them are going to bethe same, right, but like can
you go ground outside, can youhave a dance party and listen to
some music?
Can you call a friend, can youmeditate, can you shake, like
what?
Let's make a really big, robusttoolbox so that you have other
tools, because if food is theonly tool we've ever used, of
(33:39):
course that's going to be theone that we always go to.
Right, once we've built up thattoolbox, I also grant people
permission that food can stillbe in the toolbox.
It's allowed to be a copingmechanism.
We just don't want it to be theonly coping mechanism.
So it's still allowed to bethat comfort for you and it's
(34:02):
also.
It's also really a mindfulnesspractice.
So when we feel triggered oroverwhelmed or whatever that
experience is for someone, canwe just pause and say what do I
need right now?
What is going to help me rightnow?
Sometimes the answer is goingto be food.
(34:22):
If the problem is that you'rehungry, if that's the feeling
that you're trying to fix, foodis quite literally the only
thing that's going to make itbetter, right.
And if you pause and you saywhat do I want right now to deal
with this thing and you'vetaken the time to ask yourself
that question and you make themindful decision I'm going to go
(34:45):
get some chips, great, cool.
Who am I to tell you adifferent like, to use a
different coping strategy?
What we don't want is to bejust in that constant habit of
like oh my God, I like blackedout.
I don't even know what washappening and the next thing I
knew, the family size bag ofchips was gone.
That makes us feel out ofcontrol.
(35:06):
The other thing that I think isreally important in this
conversation is and again thisis not the case for everyone.
For a lot of people, we're noteating enough food and or we're
not eating enough of a specificfood.
And so it's not just thepsychological oh I need this as
(35:27):
a coping mechanism there's alsoa physiological pull of like I
need a coping mechanism and alsoI need carbs because you
haven't given me any all daylong.
So now I'm literally going toforce you to go to the cabinet
grab some carbs.
And I know because our brainruns on carbohydrates.
Glucose is a carbohydrate thatis our brain's energy source.
(35:49):
Our bodies are really smart.
They're going to do whateverthey can to get us what they
need, or get them what they need.
So also, just looking at whatwhat does your fuel look like
during the day If you're havingthese binges at night?
What does your or what doesyour fuel look like during the
(36:13):
week if you're having thesebinges on the weekends and being
really honest with yourself andsaying, oh, I'm eating, you
know, egg whites for breakfast,a salad for lunch, chicken or a
protein and vegetable at dinner,like, yeah, you're not eating
carbs.
Of course, your body is goingto force you to eat those.
(36:35):
So I just wanted to add that,because it sounds like for your
husband specifically, it's moreof just that comfort and coping
mechanism.
But for a lot of people there'salso this added layer of like
if we're not eating enough, foodis almost always going to be
the go to coping mechanism andyou're going to have a really
hard time stopping yourself andasking yourself those questions
(36:56):
so that you can make a mindfulchoice.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And again, this is where I feellike it's so important to note
that everybody is so verydifferent.
You know, like what I startedlearning about my own body is
that, like I need a lot of fat,like fat is the thing that wins
my world.
And it's gotten to the pointnow where, like, if I am
(37:26):
uncharacteristically like cranky, my husband and my best friend,
andre, like they know to ask,like when's the last time you
had a handful of nuts?
Like when's the last time youate bacon?
Because, like it's literallylike sometimes, like I turn into
(37:47):
a Jekyll and Hyde sort of asituation without even knowing
it, because my blood sugar isnot happy, you know, and my fuel
source has gotten low, and soit's like go eat a boiled egg
and then we can talk becausethis is not who you are.
Yeah, you know, and you know,for my husband it really like
(38:10):
it's it's such an interestingthing because he is very
emotionally aware.
He is like very like, he's verygood at sitting with his own
emotions and like nervousstimulation, all that stuff.
He never did that like throughtherapy or through a course or
whatever, just like that wasjust a necessary part of his
like toolkit for surviving inhis family.
(38:33):
But I feel like food is one ofthose places that he goes to,
like where it's almost okay tocheck out, like it's like the
one place where he feels like hecan check out because
everything else needs to be sopresent in his life.
And so, like in those moments,you know we've been working on
(38:59):
like, how can we bring that?
Like, like how can we turn likethe off button?
You know what's your off button.
It doesn't have to be food,yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I would also say in that scenario.
So one of the practices thatI've been teaching for years,
before I even knew whatintuitive eating was, is to eat
slowly and mindfully, not justbecause it has a huge impact on
our relationship with food whichit does but it's also just so
(39:31):
much better for your body andyour digestive tract.
Like people will think thatthey have food intolerances and
I'm like how long does it takeyou to eat a meal?
And they go time it and it'slike six minutes, like okay,
well, let's slow down first.
So what I would say is like andthis is for really any, this
can be applied to otherscenarios as well is pick the
lowest hanging fruit.
To practice eating slowly andmindfully.
(39:54):
So like if your husband isreally, if breakfast is like
easy for him and that's not ameal where he's feeling like
that's a coping meal, maybe,just like he can practice, okay,
I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonnalike really notice the texture
and the flavor of my food andthe temperature of my food and
(40:14):
like is it savory, is it sweet,does it have that umami flavor?
Is it sour?
Like really just practicing theact of eating slowly and
mindfully, because, as we buildthat skill.
When it's easy, it willautomatically most likely start
to translate to those timeswhere it's more challenging
(40:37):
because we're building the habit, we're putting in the reps
right.
It's like if we're practicing Iwas trying to think of a not
gym analogy, since you hate thegym, but like we're if we're
practicing doing a body weightsquat, like just squatting our
body with like perfect form, andwe just practice doing it over
(40:58):
and over, really like feelingthe right muscles activate,
making sure we're not feelingany pain, then it's much more
likely that when we actuallyhave weight on a barbell, that
we're gonna do that correctly,right.
There are times where it mightbe a little bit too much, it's a
little bit too heavy and yourevert to those old movement
patterns.
Same vein there might be like areally bad day where it's like
(41:23):
this is just not happening todayand that's okay, and you're
still putting in the reps andbuilding the skills.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, yeah, I love that concept of like making
things conscious, because thenlike, anything can be medicine
and something that I've talkedabout before.
You know, I like jokingly saidearlier like I still want to
drive through and get a filet, afish sandwich every once in a
while and to me, the reason whylike the filet of fish tastes
(41:54):
and like feels so yummy to me isbecause it reminds me of my
grandma.
you know, and so it's like thosemoments where I'm like really
missing my grandma, I'm gonna gograb a sandwich and like not
feel guilty about it.
And so, like I think thatanything can be medicine I think
donuts can also be medicine.
Like I think that when we justlook at the like nutritional
(42:16):
facts of food and leave out thelike beautiful emotional
connections that we have withfood, we, you know, we do
ourselves a disservice.
Like we don't, like we aren'tfully present in our lives and
we are just like approachingfood as like this is fuel and
(42:37):
this is what I need to like makemy body move.
It's like no, like this is oneof the like beautiful things
about having a body is that,like you get to eat these really
wonderful yummy things.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, and that's a huge part of the work I do with
my clients too is understandingthat, yes, food is fuel and it's
culture and connection andcommunity and a way to show
affection.
And to your point, like, whatare we even doing if we're not
(43:09):
participating in those practices?
Like, not every culture hasthose sorts of traditions around
food, but a lot of them do.
Like, are you just gonna noteat your favorite cookies that
your grandma makes every yeararound the holidays because
you're on a diet?
Like when you're on yourdeathbed?
(43:30):
Are you gonna be thinking aboutoh my God, I'm so glad that I
skipped out on those cookieswith grandma so that I could
wear a smaller size pant.
Or are you gonna be like I'mreally glad that I was present
with grandma and enjoyed hercookies while she was around?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, yeah, just taking a pause here.
Is there anything else whereyou feel like you want the
conversation to go, that we feellike we haven't covered?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, I think, just as someone who was in BAM and
knowing that your people areintuitive people generally
offering that, the intuitivepractices that you've created,
the rituals that you've createdaround your business or around
(44:26):
your life, what might happen ifyou started including your food
and eating experience and yourmovement experience as a part of
those rituals?
Like it's no different.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, let me think of a question to lead that into.
So I want to circle back to theintuitive part of the work that
you do, because, again, thecrossover here with both of our
(45:09):
communities is that we're justpeople who are just trying to
get back to the most intuitiveparts of ourselves, whether that
is working through our businessor with movement, or with food
or with relationships, likethere's no difference.
(45:30):
And so I'm curious if you cansort of speak to what, just
having that connection tointuition, how that can sort of
shift your relationship to allthese pieces.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, One thing that comes to mind is like how our
brains have this tendency tosegment things, like we'll be so
intuitive in one area and thenlike so regimented in another,
and that's not necessarily a badthing?
And like how can we utilize theintuitive practices that we
(46:07):
already participate in whetherit's like a morning ritual or a
new moon ritual or whateverthese rituals are and use those
skills and rituals when it comesto our own body and the way
that we're taking care of ourbodies, whether it's food,
(46:27):
whether it's movement, whetherit's sleep, like maybe that's
something to just offer as likehomework.
It's like what is an area thatyou feel like regarding your
physical health, has been astruggle.
Are you not sleeping well?
Are you struggling to wake upin the mornings?
Do you forget to eat breakfast?
(46:48):
Like whatever it is, how canyou work that into a ritual that
you already know and love and Icatch myself doing this
sometimes is I'll like coach aclient on something and then
realize that I probably need todo the same thing and like right
.
So also looking at, like, whatis coming up for those people
(47:12):
who are coaches, like what'scoming up in your containers
with your clients, where you canmaybe flip the mirror and be
like, oh, I could actually dothat regarding my relationship
with food, or I could totally dothat with movement, right,
whatever it is, but I always Ialways tell people that
(47:33):
listening to your body is alwaysthe biggest flex, whether it
comes to a business decision ora food decision or anything else
Like what might it look like ifyou cultivated your
relationship with your body oryour relationship with food the
(47:53):
same way that you cultivate yourrelationship with your business
or your romantic relationship?
And just like with it is arelationship.
And so I think also likeinnately yes, eating is supposed
to be easy.
Unfortunately, our socialclimate does not allow for it to
be easy for most of us.
So, instead of expecting it tojust be easy, what if we
(48:20):
prioritized that relationshipand held it just as highly as we
do our other relationships?
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yeah, I think what's coming up for me as you're
talking about this is, like youknow, as we are each
individually on our healingjourneys, there's a development
of the consciousness and I thinkthat in the beginning we start
out by being like, oh, there'ssomething going on in my
(48:48):
relationship, so I need to go,you know, work on that.
Or and then you're like, oh, Ihave something going on with my
food stuff, so I need to go workon that.
Or, you know, we end up justplaying like whack a mole with
all these things that we feellike are challenging in our
lives.
And when you get down to thecore of it, like, there's
(49:08):
oftentimes like a core woundingor a core sort of like sensation
that feels uncomfortable, thatis really actually affecting all
these different areas in ourlives.
So, instead of playing likewhack a mole and being like I'm
going to do this and I'm goingto do that, you know, in all
these different areas in yourlife, can we get down to the
(49:29):
core, which I mean intuition canonly help in guide right and so
, like, if I'm like thinkingthrough sort of my own healing
journey it's like a lot of itstarted in relationships because
I have a tendency to go intolike an anxious attachment style
which is like I overthink, Iover process.
I need that human to be as closeto me as possible and if they
(49:54):
are separate from me then thatbecomes like this gigantic ball
of anxiety and it's like I didso much work in that realm and
then I started my business and Iwas like, oh shit, here it is
all over again, you know, andit's like okay.
So actually, when I get down tothe core, that it's actually
about control, which thenexplains a lot of this
(50:16):
relationship that I've had withfood, which has also been about
control, and so then it's likeokay, so can we bring in the
wisdom of intuition and shinethat light onto this core wound
of my, which is control?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
You know, and then that is the thing that's going
to allow, you know, my businessto run in a way that feels
really intuitive and guided andcreative.
That is the way that it's goingto allow my relationships to
develop with, like, sovereigntyand autonomy.
That's how I'm going to developtrust with my body and like
this sort of license ofacceptance.
(50:51):
And so it's like, like when westart being able to like get
down into the like, the deeper,rootier levels and like get down
to that like tap root.
You know, that's when you knowyou don't have to hire a
different coach for every singlething.
You know you can work on thesepieces at the core, root levels,
(51:12):
and I think it's always helpfulto like have a guide or a
mentor or a counselor or a coachalongside you to just be like,
hey, do you see theinterconnectedness of all of
this?
You know, but ultimately itcomes down to like, again, that
concept of intuition is like canyou discern Because sometimes
(51:39):
it can feel really confusingwhere, like that craving might
come from?
A place of like I want to checkout and I don't feel good about
life and I'm feeling overwhelmedand I'm gonna reach for that
filet of fish because I reallyjust want to, like you know, be
unconscious for a moment, andsometimes that craving can come
from a place of like I reallymiss my grandma and I really
(52:00):
want to feel connected to mygrandma, who's gone.
You know, and so like that iswhere I feel like the
discernment of intuition is likesuch an important piece to
really understand.
And to me and I'm curious howyou start to like help people
differentiate these pieces To meit always goes back to the body
(52:23):
.
It's like what is the likeunconscious feeling feel like in
your body and what is the likemissing your grandma feel like
in your body.
And it's like, if it's themissing your grandma feeling,
then like 100%, let's go andlike go get that filet of fish.
If it's the other piece, it'slike okay.
So then what do we need to doto bring a bit more
consciousness into this space?
(52:43):
And if, after that, like levelof understanding, you still want
the filet of fish, like as youwere saying, yeah, like we just
reach for that, knowing thatthat is a coping tool that you
need in that moment.
But so yeah, I'm curious howyou help folks differentiate
that.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I want to just reiteratethe fact that our issues with
food and our body don't actuallyhave anything to do with food.
In our body, like it's, it'salways something deeper, which
is another part of why it's notas simple as eating
quote-unquote should be.
I think I take a slightlydifferent approach, just because
(53:25):
a lot of times, people comingto me would have no idea how to
differentiate the feeling ofmissing grandma from the feeling
of like being overwhelmed,because we're working on
building that interoception orinteroceptive awareness, which
is basically just being able tofeel and interpret the inner
feelings in your body.
I just ask why, like I reallywant this filet of fish, cool,
(53:51):
why do you want it?
And just see what?
What comes up?
Right?
Is it because I'm hungry?
Is it I feel lonely?
Is it I'm just craving it,which craving and hunger are not
the same.
So, like, cool, and if it's acraving, then let's break down
(54:15):
what have you eaten so far today?
Is it a craving coming from notbeing well fed, or is it like
if you've eaten enough, thenit's like okay, maybe it is this
emotional craving.
And then we can start to askmore questions around that, like
what are you feeling in yourbody what happened at work today
, what was going on?
Because doing that diggingbasically just gives us data,
(54:39):
right, it gives us informationand we can say then going
forward oh, the last time I hada really bad day of work, I had
that one craving.
That's really interesting andyou start to then reinforce your
intuition, because anotherthing that makes this work so,
so challenging is that everybodyeats and so everybody has an
(55:02):
opinion about what other peopleshould be eating and everyone
compares what they're eatingwith what other people are
eating in a way that's differentfrom running a business.
Not everyone's an entrepreneur.
Not everyone runs a business,and so it does.
It can feel extra confrontingand extra disruptive to do this
(55:27):
work because it's so differentfrom what we've been taught and
it often and I say this becausemost of my clients come from a
background of oh, my caregiverswere dieting and they were
taking us to Weight Watcherswhen we were 11 and whatever
like we've never actually seenan example of what intuitive
(55:48):
eating looks like, which isreally just intuitive eating is
just normal eating, if we reallybreak it down simply.
It's just not having weird foodthings, and so our intuition a
lot of times has been shut upfor so long that we do need to
start almost with like the egostuff first and like the
(56:11):
curiosity first, and as we startto reinforce, like no, your
body's actually not wrong, right, we'll do something like well,
I feel hungry, but I shouldn'tbe hungry, and then we eat and
then we're like, oh wait, Iactually feel better.
And it's about just reinforcingwhat our intuition was already
telling us but we were ignoring.
(56:31):
I think that was kind of like aroundabout answer to your
question.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, it totally makes sense and, like you were
saying too, like something thatI don't think people fully grasp
, the concept around your workis that, like it's really not
about our bodies and it's reallynot about food.
It goes so much deeper thanthat and you know, like I think
(56:57):
an important part to likequestion, as you're doing this
kind of work, is like where didyou receive messages about your
body?
You know, and like.
When I think back to mychildhood, it's like I look like
the spinning image of my mother, like she and I like used to be
(57:17):
mistaken as sisters when wewere, when I was growing up and
I mean she's quite young as wellis as part of it.
But I grew up with watching herweird diets in the 90s, like and
(57:39):
like I remember in particular,she was like stoked because she
was like I can eat as much as Iwant, as long as it is hard
boiled eggs and great fruit, andlike like I watched my mom do
this to her body and you knowshe never told me anything bad
about my body.
(57:59):
She was always like you are, youknow, perfect and beautiful and
like would say all these thingsfrom her mouth, like that was
affirming and validating and I'mwatching her destroy her body.
That looks exactly like my body.
And so then, like in this, likesubconscious level, I was like,
(58:21):
oh, I also need to do that,because if I'm not careful, then
when I hit my 30s, then I'mgoing to be too big for my body
and my mom was never too big forher body.
Like, let's just be clear,there is, like you know, and so,
like, like, we pick up thesemessages about our own bodies,
(58:43):
not necessarily from the wordsthat are spoken to us, but
sometimes just from like pickingit up from the environment of
like well, we grew up and so Iattribute a lot of the patterns
that I had in my 20s around foodand dieting and like
restriction to it was just likeanother form of the thing that
my mom did in the 90s.
It just looked like gluten freeand counting macros, you know.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, and you know this.
This makes me think about justbreaking those generational
patterns.
And people ask me parents willask me pretty frequently like
how do I ensure that my childhas, you know, a healthy
relationship with food and getsall the nutrients that they need
?
And unfortunately, orfortunately, however you look at
(59:32):
it it's all on you.
Parents like you have todemonstrate for them what a
healthy relationship with foodlooks like.
You have to show them whateating a variety of foods and
nourishing your body looks like.
You have to show them whattaking care of your health
holistically looks like, becauseotherwise the exact same thing
(59:57):
happens where, like, they can begiving you all the foods that
you want and need, they can betaking you to sports practices,
they can be doing all the thingsfor you.
But if you are not, like, kidslearn by watching, and so if
they're seeing you not eatdinner or they're seeing you
(01:00:19):
serve yourself somethingdifferent of course, aside from,
like, allergies or things likethat, right, like they're still
seeing that.
And so the best way to ensurethat your kids have a good
relationship with food is to doyour own work, so that you can
demonstrate what a goodrelationship with food looks
like, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah, well, my dear, I would love for you to share a
bit about the Nourished andWhole program that we are just
about to launch.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
So Nourished and Whole is my group intuitive
eating program and basically wework through the book and the
workbook.
There is a workbook that goesalong with the intuitive eating
book.
That has a lot of thosequestions that you were asking,
things like when did you firstlearn that there was something
(01:01:15):
wrong with your body?
Who said that?
Who benefits from youcontinuing to believe that?
Like really great questions foreach of the principles.
We work through it as a groupand I also bring in my education
as both a teacher I was ateacher for many years and a
board certified health coach,because I do think that there is
(01:01:37):
an aspect of education that'sreally empowering.
Part of what makes it easy tosuccumb to all of these crazy
diets is that we just don't knowany better, and so I also teach
you all of the information sothat you do know better and you
can think critically and be likedoes this make sense that I ate
that cell reduce with cureddiseases?
No, it actually doesn't, so I'mnot going to do that.
(01:02:00):
Yeah, so we do group calls.
We have an online portal and Isend everyone the book and the
workbook and, if you hatereading, I do have a workshop
that you can watch in lieu ofreading the book.
But I'm still going to.
I still send people copiesbecause I think it's really
(01:02:20):
important to have, even if it'slike someone comes over and is
like what's that book on yourbookshelf called intuitive
eating?
What a great opportunity tohave that conversation with
someone.
But yeah, we start the week ofMarch 4th and I'm really excited
to hold space for folks and dosome community healing.
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So does the program itself start on March 4th or
does it launch on March 4th?
Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
We will begin that week sometime, based on
schedules.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Okay, sounds good.
Yeah, and how can people findyou on the web?
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
The Graham is the best place to find me.
It's at Laradayz, L-A-R-A.
Like Lara Croft, TombRaiderdays, like Days of the
Week.
I always check my DMs.
I'm super available there.
Yeah, that's probably the bestplace to get a hold of me.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Perfect.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on and having this
conversation with me and, yeah,if any of you resonated with
this conversation, go check outher program and I'll see you
guys next time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, thank you for coming to find me.
Hello and welcome to the Rooted Business Podcast.
Today I've got Lara Deyes andshe is an intuitive eating
counselor and BAM alumni and Ilove her work, I think
personally, because I'm somebodywho has struggled with a lot of
(00:24):
eating habits, coming from themedical industry and being told
this is what healthy food andhealthy eating is, and finding
that actually a lot of thosethings didn't work for me.
So, yeah, I'm really happy tohave you on the show and dive in
and share what your work is allabout and how it really fits
(00:48):
into this bigger framework ofthis movement of listening to
our bodies.
That's where our crossoverhappens with what we talk about
is how can you listen to yourbody?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So, yeah, I'm so excited to be here and, yeah, I
just I loved the work that wedid in BAM because, well,
because I love you, but alsobecause you're so like, I feel
like the whole point of BAM isto help people figure out the
(01:24):
most aligned and intuitive wayto run their own business and,
as you mentioned, the crossoverbetween your work and mine, I
like that's basically what Ihelp people do as it pertains to
food, eating, movement, which,as you know, also bleeds into
other areas of our life.
(01:45):
Right, that's true.
So, coaching is not justbusiness.
Physical health coaching is notjust about physical health.
Yeah, so I'm excited to havethis conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
That's amazing.
So I was actually telling myhusband that I was going to
interview you this morning andhe was like what the heck is an
intuitive eating coach?
So can you, can you start thereand give us a little bit of a
context of what that actuallymeans?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
and yeah, yeah, so he's not alone.
I don't know if he listens toyour episodes, but you're not
alone.
Being an intuitive eatingcounselor essentially means that
I help people relearn how tolisten to and connect with their
(02:36):
bodies so that they can eat andmove and live in a way that is
healthy and aligned for them.
And there is, to his point, alot of confusion around that,
because intuitive eating isthere's like lower case
(02:58):
intuitive eating, which is like,oh, you just eat intuitively
and listen to your body, yes.
And then there's capitalintuitive eating, which is a
specific set of 10 principlesthat were developed by two
registered dietitians back inthe 90s to literally help teach
people how to reconnect withtheir bodies.
A lot of pushback that I get ispeople saying things like well,
(03:21):
I can't feel my hunger andfullness cues, so therefore I
cannot be an intuitive eater.
And it's like well, theframework helps you relearn how
to do that.
Like it's not.
We're not just throwing youinto the deep end.
It's really about eating foodsand amounts of foods that serve
your unique body, instead offollowing meal plans or macros
(03:44):
or doing whatever.
Next diet craze TikTok is, youknow, pushing into your
algorithm or whatever, becauseyour body is not my body, and if
we just eat according to howother people are eating, to
bring it back to the work we doin BAM, that's like just copying
what someone else does in theirbusiness when you guys run
(04:07):
totally different businessesLike that just doesn't make
sense, and so it's reallyintuitive.
Eating is really a set of toolsto help people understand, feel
and interpret the cues thattheir body is giving them and
respect those cues.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I feel like the operative word there is feel.
I think like I'm trying to pullmyself out of the perspective
of somebody who, likeunderstands what it is that you
do and is, like all on boardwith what it is that you do.
And so I'm going to like pokeholes, not because I'm like
trying to be controversial, butbecause I'm trying to put myself
(04:50):
into the context of someone who, like doesn't get it.
And it was so amazing to havethis conversation with my
husband because he was just likeI don't get it, so I'm going to
like just literally use hisquestion.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Tell him thank you for doing that episode.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I feel like he he's like a side interviewer here, so
his thought was okay.
So if I'm allowed to just eat,intuitively, I'm just going to
eat all the potatoes and all thebrownies and all the cake and
drink all the beer, like, if youallow me to just like take the
(05:28):
reins off of my eating.
And he's like a bigger guy, youknow, and he has struggled with
weight off and on for a lot ofhis life.
That is his like quotation mark.
Fear is, if I am allowed,quotation mark allowed to do all
these things, then how do Icome back from from just letting
(05:53):
the little kid in me run theshow?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, so this is a super common question.
I said something to someonerecently about being an
intuitive eating counselor andthey were like so I'll just eat
Mexican food all day.
And I was like okay, well, howdoes that make you feel?
Like, Are you honoring yourhunger and fullness when he's
eating all these potatoes?
Is he honoring his hunger andfullness because those are two
of the intuitive eatingprinciples Is he respecting his
(06:17):
body?
Like, is he eating foods thatmake him feel good and feel
satisfied and don't make himphysically ill?
Right, Because from a lot ofpeople they'll be like well,
I'll just eat cheese all thetime, but I'm lactose intolerant
.
That's not actually eatingintuitively.
If we're eating foods that makeus sick, we're not being
(06:37):
intuitive eaters.
Principle 10 is to honor yourbody with gentle nutrition.
So for only eating potatoes,it's so funny.
I had a former client that waslike I've been honoring all my
cravings and eating bread andbutter and I'm like cool, what
else have you been eating?
She's like well, that's allI've been craving.
And I was like does that followprinciple 10, to honor your
body with gentle nutrition?
(06:58):
And she was like okay, so maybeI haven't been intuitive eating
.
I'm like, yeah, like we, andthis is why having a
comprehensive understanding ofall 10 of the intuitive eating
principles is part of what helpsus kind of wrap our brains
around how it works.
Because, to your husband'spoint, like, yeah, if all you're
(07:19):
eating is potatoes, that's notactually eating intuitively,
because at some point his labwork might not be good, he might
not have a lot of energy, hemight not be sleeping well, His
bowel movements might not beregular and normal, right, and
those are all indicators thatwe're not actually eating in the
way that our body wants us tobe eating.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I think, too, when I look back on my own relationship
and history with food.
I came from an acupuncturebackground.
One of the things that we learnabout and teach about is
nutrition, and at the time thatI was an acupuncturist, like the
(08:01):
gluten-free thing was like allthe rage and everyone was going
gluten-free, particularly in thearea that I was living in in
Santa Cruz, california.
It was just like you go intoany restaurant everything is
gluten-free.
And so I was like very strictwith my dieting and eating.
(08:26):
I would say I was prettyrestrictive in terms of not just
what I allowed myself to eatbut the quantities of food that
I allowed myself to eat.
You know, I wasn't like afollower of the ten tenets of
(08:47):
intuitive eating.
I think I was probably more justpracticing the like lowercase I
intuitive eating.
I was like what would happen ifI just like let myself do that
thing which is like binge outcompletely on, you know, bread
and butter, like sort of to your, your clients point, and what I
found is that I actually didn'tfeel good If I let myself just
(09:11):
like take it to the extreme.
And so it's it's what Iunderstand from having lots of
conversations with you.
It's really about likemoderation and Pulling the guilt
and the shame out of our foodchoices, I feel like is another
big part of the work that you dobeing okay with like not just
(09:33):
okay, but like, like, like,honoring that, like sometimes I
do want to tWicks bar orSometimes I do want to, you know
, drive through McDonald's andget a filet of fish sandwich,
and like that doesn't have to be.
I am, you know, a Bad person orI'm doing this wrong, or I'm a
(09:54):
bad role model, you know.
And so I'm curious if you canspeak to Like these sort of like
pendulum, like cycles that I'msure you've seen lots and lots
of people go through.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I know I think this is just audio, but I
actually bought a littlependulum because I talked about
this so much and I use analogyBecause, yeah, there's a lot of
fear that, oh my god, if I letmyself eat whatever I want, like
I'm only gonna eat donuts andcookies and pizza and chips and
(10:26):
Flai fish and whatever.
And honestly, at first thatmight happen, because the
psychological and physiologicalmechanism behind restriction is
that we have cravings.
We usually end up binging andthat's like part of the irony of
dieting is that restrictionactually creates the cravings
(10:50):
and the binging.
And so at first that pendulummight swing really far to one
side where Maybe we don't toucha vegetable for three days and
we eat all of these reallycalorie dense, high sugar, high
fat, high salt foods Like hyperpalatable foods.
But, as you said earlier,eventually you're not gonna feel
(11:10):
good and this sometimes happensto me.
I give this example andsometimes people can resonate.
Um, when I go on vacation, a lotof times I'm eating foods that
I don't don't normally eat.
Depending on where I am, itmight be some more of those
hyper palatable foods, morealcohol, that kind of thing.
When I get home, my bodyliterally will crave Like
(11:32):
vegetables and my friends andwe'll go get like Kava bowls.
I don't know if people haveKava where they're located, but
it's like a big bowl of you get.
You can get like rice and be.
It's like Chipotle, but kindmore Mediterranean and less
Mexican food.
But you just like pile up, willgo pile up.
You know corn and cabbage andcucumber and all of these things
(11:52):
, because that is what our bodyis craving after not having what
felt like enough of that Whilewe were gone.
The same thing will happen andit might be a little bit of a
pendulum swing for a while untilyou find your happy medium, and
I actually don't.
This is very controversial, butI hate the word moderation as
(12:12):
it pertains to food, becausethat can turn into another rule
where it's like well, how muchis moderation?
Is One scoop of ice creammoderation?
What if I want more than onescoop?
Then it feels like restrictionagain.
Right, and so I I viewmoderation as a form of
restriction because it's justanother label and food rule.
(12:34):
So really it's about releasingany sort of expectations and
just letting your body make thecall and being okay with
whatever call that makes,whether it's a filet of fish,
whether it's a salad right.
And the other thing that can bereally hard for people who have
been on this diet roller coasteris Understanding that diet
(12:57):
culture does not own salads,they do not own smoothies, they
do not own nutrient dense foodslike you can still eat those
things and it does not mean thatyou're dieting.
And that's the other thing thatcomes up.
For people who have experienceda lot of guilt and shame around
eating is like they feel likethey have to eat all of these
hyper palatable foods and it'slike no, that's also not eating
(13:21):
intuitively.
Intuitive eating means maybeyou wake up and you make oatmeal
for breakfast, you have somechicken sausage on the side, you
go to lunch and your friendwants to get burgers and so you
get burgers and then you gethome and later for dinner You're
like, mmm, a salad sounds kindof good, so you have that and
then you realize you're notreally satisfied and so you have
(13:43):
some fries on the side and thenmaybe you want something sweet,
so you take out the ice creamand have like three bites if
that's what you want, or thewhole pint if that's really what
you want.
Like it's gonna look differentevery day.
And Another thing that peopledon't really consider when
especially and disclaimer Icounted macros for five years,
(14:04):
like pretty religiously when Iwas doing competitive sports,
and the funny thing about thatis like we have this idea that
we should eat the same amount offood every day, and that's just
not how bodies work.
If we are Louncing on the couchall day, we're probably not
(14:27):
gonna be as hungry as a day thatwe run a marathon Like.
That just doesn't make sensethat we would eat the same
amount of food every day, andSometimes it's things we don't
even notice, like if we'rerecovering from being sick, we
might be way hungrier thannormal because our body
literally needs more energy torecover from illness and injury,
(14:48):
and so this is another reasonthat really learning to Feel and
Interpret and respect yourbody's cues is like actually a
way bigger flex than havingquote-unquote Discipline and
following a regimented diet,because we can all do that.
That's not actually hard.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, there's a couple pieces that I want to
like circle back and like dig alittle bit deeper into, because,
as you were speaking, I justhad this like image pop up of an
iceberg.
I feel like this image pops upa lot for me, where it's like
intuitive eating is like thevery top of the iceberg, but you
can see above the water.
But then underneath, I was likeconnection to body and
(15:31):
Acceptance are the two bigthings.
That sort of like popped up forme, because it's like, yeah, we
can look at you know, you or I,you know, look Approaching food
from an intuitive place, butwhat's underneath the surface?
There is an acceptance and ourconnection to our bodies and
that's like that deep, deeplevel work that I think is
(15:52):
missing in a lot of Diet culture, even just in the ways that
people talk about how to eathealthy, because it's like a how
do you feel connected to yourbody?
You know what are like?
Are you actually listening tothose signals from the body?
And again, this is where, like,our work intersects is.
(16:15):
You know, sometimes in business, that thing that everyone else
is doing is not going to feelGood in your body to do and so
can you do the brave thing,which is actually listen to the
signals in your body, to makedecisions that are appropriate
for your business.
And I'm hearing, in the waythat you're talking about it,
it's like can you listen to thesignals of hunger and cravings
(16:38):
and and look at the context ofyour life and be like, hey, like
I'm running a marathon today orI'm recovering from an illness
today, maybe my body knows alittle bit more about this and
has a little bit more wisdomabout this than my Gigantic
brain knows what to do with.
You know, and when we startmoving our decisions away from
(16:59):
Our brains and into our bodies,something shifts, and so I'm
kind of wanting to like explorewhat that place is.
So that's the first like bigpiece underneath the iceberg for
me.
And then the second piece is Istruggled with weight my entire
life.
I, you know, grew up inCalifornia, where there's like a
(17:21):
certain level of, like a beautystandard, and particularly like
I feel like the Korean culturehas an expectation of a man
being petite and small andReally thin.
I mean, when I go to Korea, I Iwalk down the street and like I
(17:41):
look and feel like an obeseperson, even though I'm at a
healthy weight for my frame andmy body and I feel really,
really comfortable in myself.
But I definitely get looks whenI when I walk around Korea, and
so like having those kinds ofpressures, I think, forced me to
(18:02):
think about my ideal weightfrom brain space as being closer
to 110 120, and what actuallyis healthy for me is like 160
170, and part of the acceptanceof Like intuitive eating is
being like, hey, I'm going tolet my body choose what weight
(18:24):
it wants to be at and I feelreally strong at 160, versus
like when I was one.
I would say like 120 ish waslast weight I remember because I
don't have a scale anymore LikeI was hungry all the time.
I, you know, was tired all thetime.
I was anemic, like there weresignals coming from my body
(18:48):
saying that I'm not happy, youknow, and so I'm just gonna
throw that on the table and andGo play with it.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, no, I love that you shared this and it made me
think that it probably would bein service of Whoever's
listening for me to at least,like, read through the ten
principles, because, all of that, there's one for all of these
scenarios, right?
So Principle one is to rejectthe diet mentality.
(19:18):
I think that one's prettyobvious, like we have to stop
dieting in order to listen toour intuition.
Principle two is to honor yourhunger.
This means Maybe notintermittent fasting.
If you wake up hungry everymorning, that's your body
telling you it needs to eat, andlooking at hunger as what it is
, which is a physiological cuefrom your body that it needs
energy.
And principle three is to makepeace with food, which we talked
(19:42):
about regarding the pendulumswing and just looking at all
foods as morally neutral.
Principle four is to challengethe food police, and that might
be the brain in your head that'stelling you things like oh, you
shouldn't eat, that that's notquote-unquote healthy, you are
too big, whatever that lookslike.
Principle five is to feel yourfullness.
(20:04):
Principle five and six kind ofgo together feel your fullness
and discover the satisfactionfactor which we can come back to
if that comes up.
Principle seven is to cope withyour emotions without using
food, so learning how toactually cope with feelings.
Principle eight is to respectyour body.
This one is really about whatwe were just talking about,
(20:27):
which is, or what you were justsharing about, which is to honor
your own unique geneticblueprint the same way that we.
I Don't think I've ever heardsomeone say, well, I'm a, I'm a
shoe size eight, but I'm notgonna buy new shoes until I miss
six and a half Like thatliterally makes no sense, but we
(20:48):
do that with our bodies all thetime.
Principle nine is Exercise.
Feel the difference that one'sreally just about moving in ways
that feel joyful, instead ofmoving in order to, like, burn
calories or change the the shapeof your body.
And principle ten I mentionedearlier, which is to honor your
health with gentle nutrition.
(21:08):
So all of those come togetherto create this experience of
actually eating intuitively.
And I was thinking while youwere sharing about how,
unfortunately, one of thebiggest how do I want to say
this, one of the biggest, one ofthe places that people
(21:33):
experience the most weightstigma is at the doctor and by
their healthcare providers, andit's because they're using
antiquated diagrams or littletables or whatever.
They're using BMI, which wasnever meant to be an individual
(21:55):
health metric.
It was meant to measurepopulations.
Also, fun fact, they changedthe BMI scale, so there was this
big uproar.
I always forget what year it is.
I can look and get back to youif it feels important when
everyone was like, oh my God,then obesity rates are exploding
(22:16):
and it's because they literallychanged the classifications of
which bodies are consideredobese.
It's not because people got anybigger, which is like people
don't want to talk about that.
They want to just say thateveryone's lazy and eating too
much McDonald's, because that'sreally easy.
And I totally lost my train ofthought.
(22:38):
Oh, healthcare providers, yeah,weight is not a health indicator
.
Weight is also not a behavior,and this is why weight loss
goals are actually super whack,because weight is not a behavior
.
It is not something that wecontrol.
If we are truly wanting toimprove our health, then we need
(23:03):
to look at health promotingbehaviors.
Am I moving my body?
Am I sleeping seven to ninehours every night?
Am I cultivating meaningful,deep relationships with people?
Am I managing my stress?
Am I hydrating well?
Am I eating a variety of foodsthat are both physically
satiating and also satisfyingand make me happy Like those are
(23:27):
behaviors that we can actuallycontrol.
Weight is not Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I think part of that is this concept of
acceptance.
You know, because, sort of toyour point there, when I look at
my life now like I was sort oflike going through that
(23:56):
checklist alongside you as youwere saying that like one of the
biggest things that's changedfor me is that, like having this
land, having this property,there's always shit to do and
I'm always moving my body.
And you know, I think that oneof the things that doesn't get
talked about enough is, like, doyou move your body in ways that
(24:18):
feel joyful for you?
Because I hate going to the gym, like it is like a capital H
hate.
Like I do not like being insideperiod, like if I can just
spend my entire day outside,that's my preference.
And so now you're telling me Ihave to like be inside, to like
move my body.
(24:38):
No, no, thank you no you'reabsolutely right, yeah, but it's
like I spend my day moving.
Like today I moved horse poop,today I moved a bunch of wood
that I found around the propertyso that I can build up my
garden beds.
You know, like these are thethings that bring me joy in my
(25:02):
life, and so I'm always askingpeople like, like hey, if you
don't like doing that thing,then why do you continue doing
that?
Like, can we find something foryou that is actually enjoyable,
instead of having the like theexercise you know whether it's a
physical activity or like I'meven relating it to business.
(25:22):
It's like, if you don't want tobe on Instagram, like that's
not the only way to like attractpeople in right.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I was literally just gonna say that, like that
analogy like you have an emaillist, you can go to in-person
networking events, you can be onInstagram, you can be on TikTok
.
I love this because it is likeit's exactly the same with
movement.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah cause it's like, yeah, like you might get a
particular result, but like youhave this one life to live,
you've got one body.
Girl like like why are youdoing things in a way that feels
really unpleasant to you?
you know, and so, yeah, I thinkthat that feels like an
(26:07):
important piece to just sort oflike give people the permission,
the autonomy, to choose notjust what foods they eat.
Cause of what I'm hearing isit's not just about, like,
intuitive eating is not yourthing, right, it's like the
whole holistic ways in which yourelate to your body, and so I
(26:28):
feel like calling yourself anintuitive eating counselor is a
little bit of a misnomer,because you're, I'm sure, like
in sessions, you're askingpeople about their lifestyles
and how they move and how theytake up space and how they're
processing emotions and like allof these things, which I feel
like is a more holistic way oflooking at this relationship
that you have with your body.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And it is, and I have no idea ever like really what
to call myself because of that,which is a whole other
conversation.
But you're exactly right and Ithink it's probably worth saying
too that a lot of the folks whohave really big followings on
social media and who talk aboutquote, unquote health, they're
(27:12):
looking at these like little,these two little pieces of
health which are food andmovement.
They are not taking acomprehensive approach to health
.
And this is really importantand it's I mean honestly.
I'm a board certified healthand wellness coach as well and,
(27:34):
like we talked about holistichealth also, which is this idea
I shouldn't even call it an idea.
It's a fact, this fact that,like financial health, emotional
health, mental health,existential health,
environmental health, physicalhealth, they all impact one
another because we are only onehuman living in one body, having
(27:57):
one human experience.
And this is where things likeweight stigma get really tricky,
because this society is notnice to fat people and it can be
really hard.
It's really hard for anyone whohas struggled with their
relationship with food to starttrusting their bodies.
(28:17):
But it's even harder when youare someone who's genetic
blueprint is big and you're like, well, now this is what I'm
stuck with and people treat melike shit.
Yeah, like I wish I had a betteranswer to that.
I'm trying to make a biggerimpact, but like that's just.
That is the truth.
(28:38):
And it's so interesting whenyou see people talk about like,
oh well, that person's justnaturally skinny and they have
like a really fast metabolism.
Why is it so hard for you tobelieve, then, that this other
person isn't just naturally fat?
It goes both ways.
It's not only true for acertain body type.
(29:01):
Bodies are different, they arevaried, and that is a great
thing.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think we've been talking a lot about
like allowing, I guess, likebeing permissive with our food,
and I wanna go to the other endof the pendulum, which is like
(29:27):
people who have struggled withlike maybe restricting so much
to the point that like or I'mtrying to edit this, trying to
figure out how to make this moreclear so I feel like we've been
(29:53):
talking a lot about how, like,we can be permissive with food.
So that's like one end of thependulum.
What about people who do needto like?
I'm thinking about my husbandin this instance, right, like he
and I have had like a reallybeautiful conversation recently
actually, about how, growing up,he grew up in a really chaotic
(30:15):
childhood environment and sofood was a comfort.
It was this like friend hecould always rely on, and I
think one of the tenants thatyou talked about is to not
emotionally eat, and so how canwe sort of like touch on that
end of the pendulum and that endof the spectrum of folks who
are perhaps struggling with like?
(30:36):
I don't know what my intuitivesense of eating is, because,
like part of my intuition issaying that this is the one
comfort that I have and that Ineed to reach for this comfort.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Totally so.
A couple of things I wanna justcall out before I get into
answering your actual question,because it's important is that
there are things that are goingto create extra barriers to
becoming an intuitive eater.
Passive or history of eatingdisorders is one.
(31:08):
Trauma is one especially traumathat revolves around like
feeling your actual body andwhat's going on in your body.
One is kind of like what yourhusband dealt with, which is
very common, is that food hasalways been the go to coping
(31:29):
mechanism.
Neurodiversity, adhd, makes itreally hard to be an intuitive
eater and I have helped peoplewith all of these barriers still
become intuitive eaters.
So I'm not saying that so thatyou feel like, oh my God, it's
impossible for me I'm sayingthat to validate that like it's
going to be harder for somepeople than others.
(31:50):
So generally in these scenarioswhere food was like quite
literally our best friend andour comfort, we don't.
There are different.
Also caveat, individualdifferences are going to matter
(32:12):
Right, like there's not one wayto deal with this.
I think part of this is justlooking at have you ever
actually sat with your emotionsand not used a coping mechanism?
That is part of the practice.
Is like okay, even if it's notfor very long, right, like they
say 90 seconds, but can you makeit five seconds, can you make
(32:35):
it 10 seconds, can you make it15 seconds?
And just increasing the amountof time that you're sitting with
whatever emotion feels reallyuncomfortable and building your
own resilience for sitting inthat emotion.
It's going to be huge.
(32:55):
The other thing that can bereally helpful is building what
I call our toolbox of copingmechanisms or stress management
tools.
So what else makes you feelreally good, is it?
And then I mean there's a lotof overlap here when we talk
about stress management versuscoping mechanisms, versus
(33:16):
nervous system regulation tools.
A lot of them are going to bethe same, right, but like can
you go ground outside, can youhave a dance party and listen to
some music?
Can you call a friend, can youmeditate, can you shake, like
what?
Let's make a really big, robusttoolbox so that you have other
tools, because if food is theonly tool we've ever used, of
(33:39):
course that's going to be theone that we always go to.
Right, once we've built up thattoolbox, I also grant people
permission that food can stillbe in the toolbox.
It's allowed to be a copingmechanism.
We just don't want it to be theonly coping mechanism.
So it's still allowed to bethat comfort for you and it's
(34:02):
also.
It's also really a mindfulnesspractice.
So when we feel triggered oroverwhelmed or whatever that
experience is for someone, canwe just pause and say what do I
need right now?
What is going to help me rightnow?
Sometimes the answer is goingto be food.
(34:22):
If the problem is that you'rehungry, if that's the feeling
that you're trying to fix, foodis quite literally the only
thing that's going to make itbetter, right.
And if you pause and you saywhat do I want right now to deal
with this thing and you'vetaken the time to ask yourself
that question and you make themindful decision I'm going to go
(34:45):
get some chips, great, cool.
Who am I to tell you adifferent like, to use a
different coping strategy?
What we don't want is to bejust in that constant habit of
like oh my God, I like blackedout.
I don't even know what washappening and the next thing I
knew, the family size bag ofchips was gone.
That makes us feel out ofcontrol.
(35:06):
The other thing that I think isreally important in this
conversation is and again thisis not the case for everyone.
For a lot of people, we're noteating enough food and or we're
not eating enough of a specificfood.
And so it's not just thepsychological oh I need this as
(35:27):
a coping mechanism there's alsoa physiological pull of like I
need a coping mechanism and alsoI need carbs because you
haven't given me any all daylong.
So now I'm literally going toforce you to go to the cabinet
grab some carbs.
And I know because our brainruns on carbohydrates.
Glucose is a carbohydrate thatis our brain's energy source.
(35:49):
Our bodies are really smart.
They're going to do whateverthey can to get us what they
need, or get them what they need.
So also, just looking at whatwhat does your fuel look like
during the day If you're havingthese binges at night?
What does your or what doesyour fuel look like during the
(36:13):
week if you're having thesebinges on the weekends and being
really honest with yourself andsaying, oh, I'm eating, you
know, egg whites for breakfast,a salad for lunch, chicken or a
protein and vegetable at dinner,like, yeah, you're not eating
carbs.
Of course, your body is goingto force you to eat those.
(36:35):
So I just wanted to add that,because it sounds like for your
husband specifically, it's moreof just that comfort and coping
mechanism.
But for a lot of people there'salso this added layer of like
if we're not eating enough, foodis almost always going to be
the go to coping mechanism andyou're going to have a really
hard time stopping yourself andasking yourself those questions
(36:56):
so that you can make a mindfulchoice.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And again, this is where I feellike it's so important to note
that everybody is so verydifferent.
You know, like what I startedlearning about my own body is
that, like I need a lot of fat,like fat is the thing that wins
my world.
And it's gotten to the pointnow where, like, if I am
(37:26):
uncharacteristically like cranky, my husband and my best friend,
andre, like they know to ask,like when's the last time you
had a handful of nuts?
Like when's the last time youate bacon?
Because, like it's literallylike sometimes, like I turn into
(37:47):
a Jekyll and Hyde sort of asituation without even knowing
it, because my blood sugar isnot happy, you know, and my fuel
source has gotten low, and soit's like go eat a boiled egg
and then we can talk becausethis is not who you are.
Yeah, you know, and you know,for my husband it really like
(38:10):
it's it's such an interestingthing because he is very
emotionally aware.
He is like very like, he's verygood at sitting with his own
emotions and like nervousstimulation, all that stuff.
He never did that like throughtherapy or through a course or
whatever, just like that wasjust a necessary part of his
like toolkit for surviving inhis family.
(38:33):
But I feel like food is one ofthose places that he goes to,
like where it's almost okay tocheck out, like it's like the
one place where he feels like hecan check out because
everything else needs to be sopresent in his life.
And so, like in those moments,you know we've been working on
(38:59):
like, how can we bring that?
Like, like how can we turn likethe off button?
You know what's your off button.
It doesn't have to be food,yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I would also say in that scenario.
So one of the practices thatI've been teaching for years,
before I even knew whatintuitive eating was, is to eat
slowly and mindfully, not justbecause it has a huge impact on
our relationship with food whichit does but it's also just so
(39:31):
much better for your body andyour digestive tract.
Like people will think thatthey have food intolerances and
I'm like how long does it takeyou to eat a meal?
And they go time it and it'slike six minutes, like okay,
well, let's slow down first.
So what I would say is like andthis is for really any, this
can be applied to otherscenarios as well is pick the
lowest hanging fruit.
To practice eating slowly andmindfully.
(39:54):
So like if your husband isreally, if breakfast is like
easy for him and that's not ameal where he's feeling like
that's a coping meal, maybe,just like he can practice, okay,
I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonnalike really notice the texture
and the flavor of my food andthe temperature of my food and
(40:14):
like is it savory, is it sweet,does it have that umami flavor?
Is it sour?
Like really just practicing theact of eating slowly and
mindfully, because, as we buildthat skill.
When it's easy, it willautomatically most likely start
to translate to those timeswhere it's more challenging
(40:37):
because we're building the habit, we're putting in the reps
right.
It's like if we're practicing Iwas trying to think of a not
gym analogy, since you hate thegym, but like we're if we're
practicing doing a body weightsquat, like just squatting our
body with like perfect form, andwe just practice doing it over
(40:58):
and over, really like feelingthe right muscles activate,
making sure we're not feelingany pain, then it's much more
likely that when we actuallyhave weight on a barbell, that
we're gonna do that correctly,right.
There are times where it mightbe a little bit too much, it's a
little bit too heavy and yourevert to those old movement
patterns.
Same vein there might be like areally bad day where it's like
(41:23):
this is just not happening todayand that's okay, and you're
still putting in the reps andbuilding the skills.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, yeah, I love that concept of like making
things conscious, because thenlike, anything can be medicine
and something that I've talkedabout before.
You know, I like jokingly saidearlier like I still want to
drive through and get a filet, afish sandwich every once in a
while and to me, the reason whylike the filet of fish tastes
(41:54):
and like feels so yummy to me isbecause it reminds me of my
grandma.
you know, and so it's like thosemoments where I'm like really
missing my grandma, I'm gonna gograb a sandwich and like not
feel guilty about it.
And so, like I think thatanything can be medicine I think
donuts can also be medicine.
Like I think that when we justlook at the like nutritional
(42:16):
facts of food and leave out thelike beautiful emotional
connections that we have withfood, we, you know, we do
ourselves a disservice.
Like we don't, like we aren'tfully present in our lives and
we are just like approachingfood as like this is fuel and
(42:37):
this is what I need to like makemy body move.
It's like no, like this is oneof the like beautiful things
about having a body is that,like you get to eat these really
wonderful yummy things.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, and that's a huge part of the work I do with
my clients too is understandingthat, yes, food is fuel and it's
culture and connection andcommunity and a way to show
affection.
And to your point, like, whatare we even doing if we're not
(43:09):
participating in those practices?
Like, not every culture hasthose sorts of traditions around
food, but a lot of them do.
Like, are you just gonna noteat your favorite cookies that
your grandma makes every yeararound the holidays because
you're on a diet?
Like when you're on yourdeathbed?
(43:30):
Are you gonna be thinking aboutoh my God, I'm so glad that I
skipped out on those cookieswith grandma so that I could
wear a smaller size pant.
Or are you gonna be like I'mreally glad that I was present
with grandma and enjoyed hercookies while she was around?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, yeah, just taking a pause here.
Is there anything else whereyou feel like you want the
conversation to go, that we feellike we haven't covered?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, I think, just as someone who was in BAM and
knowing that your people areintuitive people generally
offering that, the intuitivepractices that you've created,
the rituals that you've createdaround your business or around
(44:26):
your life, what might happen ifyou started including your food
and eating experience and yourmovement experience as a part of
those rituals?
Like it's no different.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, let me think of a question to lead that into.
So I want to circle back to theintuitive part of the work that
you do, because, again, thecrossover here with both of our
(45:09):
communities is that we're justpeople who are just trying to
get back to the most intuitiveparts of ourselves, whether that
is working through our businessor with movement, or with food
or with relationships, likethere's no difference.
(45:30):
And so I'm curious if you cansort of speak to what, just
having that connection tointuition, how that can sort of
shift your relationship to allthese pieces.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, One thing that comes to mind is like how our
brains have this tendency tosegment things, like we'll be so
intuitive in one area and thenlike so regimented in another,
and that's not necessarily a badthing?
And like how can we utilize theintuitive practices that we
(46:07):
already participate in whetherit's like a morning ritual or a
new moon ritual or whateverthese rituals are and use those
skills and rituals when it comesto our own body and the way
that we're taking care of ourbodies, whether it's food,
(46:27):
whether it's movement, whetherit's sleep, like maybe that's
something to just offer as likehomework.
It's like what is an area thatyou feel like regarding your
physical health, has been astruggle.
Are you not sleeping well?
Are you struggling to wake upin the mornings?
Do you forget to eat breakfast?
(46:48):
Like whatever it is, how canyou work that into a ritual that
you already know and love and Icatch myself doing this
sometimes is I'll like coach aclient on something and then
realize that I probably need todo the same thing and like right
.
So also looking at, like, whatis coming up for those people
(47:12):
who are coaches, like what'scoming up in your containers
with your clients, where you canmaybe flip the mirror and be
like, oh, I could actually dothat regarding my relationship
with food, or I could totally dothat with movement, right,
whatever it is, but I always Ialways tell people that
(47:33):
listening to your body is alwaysthe biggest flex, whether it
comes to a business decision ora food decision or anything else
Like what might it look like ifyou cultivated your
relationship with your body oryour relationship with food the
(47:53):
same way that you cultivate yourrelationship with your business
or your romantic relationship?
And just like with it is arelationship.
And so I think also likeinnately yes, eating is supposed
to be easy.
Unfortunately, our socialclimate does not allow for it to
be easy for most of us.
So, instead of expecting it tojust be easy, what if we
(48:20):
prioritized that relationshipand held it just as highly as we
do our other relationships?
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yeah, I think what's coming up for me as you're
talking about this is, like youknow, as we are each
individually on our healingjourneys, there's a development
of the consciousness and I thinkthat in the beginning we start
out by being like, oh, there'ssomething going on in my
(48:48):
relationship, so I need to go,you know, work on that.
Or and then you're like, oh, Ihave something going on with my
food stuff, so I need to go workon that.
Or, you know, we end up justplaying like whack a mole with
all these things that we feellike are challenging in our
lives.
And when you get down to thecore of it, like, there's
(49:08):
oftentimes like a core woundingor a core sort of like sensation
that feels uncomfortable, thatis really actually affecting all
these different areas in ourlives.
So, instead of playing likewhack a mole and being like I'm
going to do this and I'm goingto do that, you know, in all
these different areas in yourlife, can we get down to the
(49:29):
core, which I mean intuition canonly help in guide right and so
, like, if I'm like thinkingthrough sort of my own healing
journey it's like a lot of itstarted in relationships because
I have a tendency to go intolike an anxious attachment style
which is like I overthink, Iover process.
I need that human to be as closeto me as possible and if they
(49:54):
are separate from me then thatbecomes like this gigantic ball
of anxiety and it's like I didso much work in that realm and
then I started my business and Iwas like, oh shit, here it is
all over again, you know, andit's like okay.
So actually, when I get down tothe core, that it's actually
about control, which thenexplains a lot of this
(50:16):
relationship that I've had withfood, which has also been about
control, and so then it's likeokay, so can we bring in the
wisdom of intuition and shinethat light onto this core wound
of my, which is control?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
You know, and then that is the thing that's going
to allow, you know, my businessto run in a way that feels
really intuitive and guided andcreative.
That is the way that it's goingto allow my relationships to
develop with, like, sovereigntyand autonomy.
That's how I'm going to developtrust with my body and like
this sort of license ofacceptance.
(50:51):
And so it's like, like when westart being able to like get
down into the like, the deeper,rootier levels and like get down
to that like tap root.
You know, that's when you knowyou don't have to hire a
different coach for every singlething.
You know you can work on thesepieces at the core, root levels,
(51:12):
and I think it's always helpfulto like have a guide or a
mentor or a counselor or a coachalongside you to just be like,
hey, do you see theinterconnectedness of all of
this?
You know, but ultimately itcomes down to like, again, that
concept of intuition is like canyou discern Because sometimes
(51:39):
it can feel really confusingwhere, like that craving might
come from?
A place of like I want to checkout and I don't feel good about
life and I'm feeling overwhelmedand I'm gonna reach for that
filet of fish because I reallyjust want to, like you know, be
unconscious for a moment, andsometimes that craving can come
from a place of like I reallymiss my grandma and I really
(52:00):
want to feel connected to mygrandma, who's gone.
You know, and so like that iswhere I feel like the
discernment of intuition is likesuch an important piece to
really understand.
And to me and I'm curious howyou start to like help people
differentiate these pieces To meit always goes back to the body
(52:23):
.
It's like what is the likeunconscious feeling feel like in
your body and what is the likemissing your grandma feel like
in your body.
And it's like, if it's themissing your grandma feeling,
then like 100%, let's go andlike go get that filet of fish.
If it's the other piece, it'slike okay.
So then what do we need to doto bring a bit more
consciousness into this space?
(52:43):
And if, after that, like levelof understanding, you still want
the filet of fish, like as youwere saying, yeah, like we just
reach for that, knowing thatthat is a coping tool that you
need in that moment.
But so yeah, I'm curious howyou help folks differentiate
that.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I want to just reiteratethe fact that our issues with
food and our body don't actuallyhave anything to do with food.
In our body, like it's, it'salways something deeper, which
is another part of why it's notas simple as eating
quote-unquote should be.
I think I take a slightlydifferent approach, just because
(53:25):
a lot of times, people comingto me would have no idea how to
differentiate the feeling ofmissing grandma from the feeling
of like being overwhelmed,because we're working on
building that interoception orinteroceptive awareness, which
is basically just being able tofeel and interpret the inner
feelings in your body.
I just ask why, like I reallywant this filet of fish, cool,
(53:51):
why do you want it?
And just see what?
What comes up?
Right?
Is it because I'm hungry?
Is it I feel lonely?
Is it I'm just craving it,which craving and hunger are not
the same.
So, like, cool, and if it's acraving, then let's break down
(54:15):
what have you eaten so far today?
Is it a craving coming from notbeing well fed, or is it like
if you've eaten enough, thenit's like okay, maybe it is this
emotional craving.
And then we can start to askmore questions around that, like
what are you feeling in yourbody what happened at work today
, what was going on?
Because doing that diggingbasically just gives us data,
(54:39):
right, it gives us informationand we can say then going
forward oh, the last time I hada really bad day of work, I had
that one craving.
That's really interesting andyou start to then reinforce your
intuition, because anotherthing that makes this work so,
so challenging is that everybodyeats and so everybody has an
(55:02):
opinion about what other peopleshould be eating and everyone
compares what they're eatingwith what other people are
eating in a way that's differentfrom running a business.
Not everyone's an entrepreneur.
Not everyone runs a business,and so it does.
It can feel extra confrontingand extra disruptive to do this
(55:27):
work because it's so differentfrom what we've been taught and
it often and I say this becausemost of my clients come from a
background of oh, my caregiverswere dieting and they were
taking us to Weight Watcherswhen we were 11 and whatever
like we've never actually seenan example of what intuitive
(55:48):
eating looks like, which isreally just intuitive eating is
just normal eating, if we reallybreak it down simply.
It's just not having weird foodthings, and so our intuition a
lot of times has been shut upfor so long that we do need to
start almost with like the egostuff first and like the
(56:11):
curiosity first, and as we startto reinforce, like no, your
body's actually not wrong, right, we'll do something like well,
I feel hungry, but I shouldn'tbe hungry, and then we eat and
then we're like, oh wait, Iactually feel better.
And it's about just reinforcingwhat our intuition was already
telling us but we were ignoring.
(56:31):
I think that was kind of like aroundabout answer to your
question.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, it totally makes sense and, like you were
saying too, like something thatI don't think people fully grasp
, the concept around your workis that, like it's really not
about our bodies and it's reallynot about food.
It goes so much deeper thanthat and you know, like I think
(56:57):
an important part to likequestion, as you're doing this
kind of work, is like where didyou receive messages about your
body?
You know, and like.
When I think back to mychildhood, it's like I look like
the spinning image of my mother, like she and I like used to be
(57:17):
mistaken as sisters when wewere, when I was growing up and
I mean she's quite young as wellis as part of it.
But I grew up with watching herweird diets in the 90s, like and
(57:39):
like I remember in particular,she was like stoked because she
was like I can eat as much as Iwant, as long as it is hard
boiled eggs and great fruit, andlike like I watched my mom do
this to her body and you knowshe never told me anything bad
about my body.
(57:59):
She was always like you are, youknow, perfect and beautiful and
like would say all these thingsfrom her mouth, like that was
affirming and validating and I'mwatching her destroy her body.
That looks exactly like my body.
And so then, like in this, likesubconscious level, I was like,
(58:21):
oh, I also need to do that,because if I'm not careful, then
when I hit my 30s, then I'mgoing to be too big for my body
and my mom was never too big forher body.
Like, let's just be clear,there is, like you know, and so,
like, like, we pick up thesemessages about our own bodies,
(58:43):
not necessarily from the wordsthat are spoken to us, but
sometimes just from like pickingit up from the environment of
like well, we grew up and so Iattribute a lot of the patterns
that I had in my 20s around foodand dieting and like
restriction to it was just likeanother form of the thing that
my mom did in the 90s.
It just looked like gluten freeand counting macros, you know.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, and you know this.
This makes me think about justbreaking those generational
patterns.
And people ask me parents willask me pretty frequently like
how do I ensure that my childhas, you know, a healthy
relationship with food and getsall the nutrients that they need
?
And unfortunately, orfortunately, however you look at
(59:32):
it it's all on you.
Parents like you have todemonstrate for them what a
healthy relationship with foodlooks like.
You have to show them whateating a variety of foods and
nourishing your body looks like.
You have to show them whattaking care of your health
holistically looks like, becauseotherwise the exact same thing
(59:57):
happens where, like, they can begiving you all the foods that
you want and need, they can betaking you to sports practices,
they can be doing all the thingsfor you.
But if you are not, like, kidslearn by watching, and so if
they're seeing you not eatdinner or they're seeing you
(01:00:19):
serve yourself somethingdifferent of course, aside from,
like, allergies or things likethat, right, like they're still
seeing that.
And so the best way to ensurethat your kids have a good
relationship with food is to doyour own work, so that you can
demonstrate what a goodrelationship with food looks
like, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah, well, my dear, I would love for you to share a
bit about the Nourished andWhole program that we are just
about to launch.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
So Nourished and Whole is my group intuitive
eating program and basically wework through the book and the
workbook.
There is a workbook that goesalong with the intuitive eating
book.
That has a lot of thosequestions that you were asking,
things like when did you firstlearn that there was something
(01:01:15):
wrong with your body?
Who said that?
Who benefits from youcontinuing to believe that?
Like really great questions foreach of the principles.
We work through it as a groupand I also bring in my education
as both a teacher I was ateacher for many years and a
board certified health coach,because I do think that there is
(01:01:37):
an aspect of education that'sreally empowering.
Part of what makes it easy tosuccumb to all of these crazy
diets is that we just don't knowany better, and so I also teach
you all of the information sothat you do know better and you
can think critically and be likedoes this make sense that I ate
that cell reduce with cureddiseases?
No, it actually doesn't, so I'mnot going to do that.
(01:02:00):
Yeah, so we do group calls.
We have an online portal and Isend everyone the book and the
workbook and, if you hatereading, I do have a workshop
that you can watch in lieu ofreading the book.
But I'm still going to.
I still send people copiesbecause I think it's really
(01:02:20):
important to have, even if it'slike someone comes over and is
like what's that book on yourbookshelf called intuitive
eating?
What a great opportunity tohave that conversation with
someone.
But yeah, we start the week ofMarch 4th and I'm really excited
to hold space for folks and dosome community healing.
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So does the program itself start on March 4th or
does it launch on March 4th?
Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
We will begin that week sometime, based on
schedules.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Okay, sounds good.
Yeah, and how can people findyou on the web?
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
The Graham is the best place to find me.
It's at Laradayz, L-A-R-A.
Like Lara Croft, TombRaiderdays, like Days of the
Week.
I always check my DMs.
I'm super available there.
Yeah, that's probably the bestplace to get a hold of me.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Perfect.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on and having this
conversation with me and, yeah,if any of you resonated with
this conversation, go check outher program and I'll see you
guys next time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, thank you for coming to find me.
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