Join me and Feminine Energy Business Coach Natalia Gorcheva as we dissect the delicate dance of masculine and feminine energies in the entrepreneurial world. We're tearing down the veil on the exploitation of feminine energy, especially within online coaching, and advocating for an authentic fusion of both forces in our professional undertakings. Our personal anecdotes shine a light on the invisible struggles behind the glamorous façade of social media success, urging listeners to embrace both robust strategies and a grounded presence for a truly successful business journey.
This episode is a treasure trove for entrepreneurs seeking to navigate the choppy waters of self-development and business growth. Natalia and I share our transitions from structured environments to the world of coaching and embracing our own feminine qualities as strengths. We puncture the myths of easy success and the deceptive appeal of 'quick-fix' strategies, offering instead a perspective of entrepreneurship as a unique, ever-evolving process. We encourage listeners to set actionable intentions in their businesses and stress the importance of adaptability and presence.
Wrapping up this enlightening discussion, we explore the significance of boundaries and the fine line between coaching and therapy. The episode emphasizes empowering clients to harness their intuition while balancing the 'feminine' aspects of nervous system regulation with 'masculine' business acumen.
Natalia Gorcheva is an intuitive and heart-centred woman driven by a mission to help spiritual entrepreneurs thrive in their heart-centred businesses through embodiment and devotion. She helps female business owners heal and balance feminine and masculine energies so they can show up in their businesses with trust and commitment to their soul’s purpose. She believes that entrepreneurship inherently supports our feminine nature and that women are now called to model new, conscious, embodied leadership, success, and wealth.
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Kat HoSoo Lee is an Emotional Alchemy Coach, Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Emotional Alchemy Podcast.
She loves playing in the space where science and spirituality converge because this is where we get to experience emotional alchemy. In her work, she educates space-holders about somatic physiology and environmental biology so they can deepen their practices of listening and presence which ultimately helps them expand their capacity to hold space for others.
As a Spiritual Business Mentor, she guides soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. The work bridges the emotional landscape with practical tools which allow them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, relational marketing and purposeful service.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Emotional
Alchemy podcast.
I have got my guest, nataliaGorcheva, here with me and I am
excited because we're going todo an episode that's about
busting myths, and those alwaysend up a little bit spicy and
(00:22):
exciting always end up a littlebit spicy and exciting.
And, specifically, we're goingto bust some myths about how
feminine business is marketedthese days and we're going to
share some of our ownexperiences and thoughts and, in
particular, I'm really excitedto hear about, like, how we can
(00:44):
balance, uh, masculine andfeminine energy.
For those of us who are, whohave been in my community for a
little while, you know that Italk about these energies in
terms of like, yin and yang, um.
Natalia uses the vocabulary offeminine and masculine, um.
I always like to sort ofpreface these conversations by
saying like, hey, like, we haveboth feminine, masculine
(01:07):
energies within us, and so wehave access to both sides and we
also have access to, like, themanipulation and mutation of
both sides, and I think thatthat's like, where we're going
to go is like, what is themanipulation, mutation of both
of these sides?
Look like, um, what is thebalance versions of these
(01:28):
energies?
Look like and um, and just soyou know like I will be flowing
with the conversation and umsort of using these terms
interchangeably yin and yang,and feminine and masculine, and
so um fill in the blank withwhatever terms make the most
sense and feel the most alignedfor you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So welcome Natalia.
Hi everyone, hi Kat, thank youso much for having me today, and
I'm really excited for thisconversation as well.
It does feel already spicy.
I've had these conversationsbefore and I must say when I sat
down with you it feels extraspicy, so let's get into it yeah
(02:09):
, I love when people bring thespice.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I I'm, you know.
I don't like it when peoplecensor themselves or feel like
they can't say exactly what itis that they're wanting to say
and so like full space to runaround and say what needs to be
said in this space here.
So I'd love to first get intowhat your observations are when
(02:37):
it comes to the exploitation offeminine energy in business,
what we're seeing out in theonline coaching world in
particular, and I think that's agood, really like starting
place for us to get into thiswork 100%, I think, starting
with the exploitation.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I've been speaking about this for a while in my
circles, how the way we marketfeminine energy, coaching,
business relationships, feels somuch like a product to me,
where and it's not only myexperience I see it also from
(03:21):
many women who have gone throughthe feminine energy world, the
initial stages of it, and theycome out feeling like they just
received another thing to sayanother thing, to do another
thing, to learn.
In my understanding of it, inmy embodiment of it, I feel that
(03:47):
it goes completely against whatthe feminine energy teachings
is about, because feminineenergy is a space of being, is
an expression of our being, ofwho we are.
I like to always explain it.
As you said, all of us haveboth right.
(04:10):
We're masculine, feminine, yinand yang, um, and I always like
to explain it that the masculineenergy is the one that faces
outwards, right, so, away frommy body, into the world, is the
thing that bridges the spacebetween me and other people, my
(04:33):
clients, my business, etc.
So it includes marketing in inthe business context, it
includes marketing content how Isell, what offers I'm providing
, how I'm holding space for myclients.
It's the bridge right.
Well, it's the feminine iseverything that goes within that
(04:56):
faces inwards.
It's who I am.
Who is the person that is doingall these things into the outer
world.
That's how I look at it.
So when I hear women who cometo me and say it's just, you
know, I can't be frolickingaround in the garden, I just
don't have the time, I justdon't have the mental space, it
(05:20):
stresses me out that I have todo.
You know now add hours ofself-care to my routine where I
can hardly find time to hang outwith my kids or with my partner
or actually do what I want tobe doing.
Then it just feels like we'readding another product, it just
feels like we're adding a chore.
And that's not supposed to belike this, because it's supposed
(05:45):
to be about shifting the space,where we're coming from.
It's supposed to be aboutshifting the person who's doing
all these things.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Otherwise, you can spend hours on self-care and
baths and champagnes and stufflike this and you will be
nowhere near feminine energy,closer to burnout I mean, I
think that what I'm hearing isthe manipulation of feminine
(06:17):
energy, but putting them like,almost like putting a mask of
feminine energy into likemasculine energy, so like
putting the mask of yin energyonto yang energy.
It's like, if you actually digunderneath the surface of all
these self-care routines we'resupposed to be doing for
(06:39):
ourselves, it's actually comingfrom a very young sort of
outward facing sort of a way.
I've also seen in this spacewhere it almost seems like
there's this new crop of coachesthat are about like
manifestation and liketransformation, and it's it
(07:05):
feels disingenuous because italmost feels like a like we've
swung too far into the oppositeend of like.
If I just sit and journal aboutthis, or if I just, you know,
feel really relaxed about this,if I am in complete regulation
(07:29):
about this, then you know theclients are going to come
pouring in, or you know themoney is going to come pouring
in, or the baby is going to land, or like name, whatever it is
that we're trying to do, name,whatever it is that we're trying
to do.
Um, and I think that this iswhere it gets really interesting
(07:51):
for me.
Is it needs to be this likebalance?
Yeah, and so for me, like whenI talk about yin and yang energy
, I talk about in terms of like.
The yin is what sets theintention and then the yang is
what creates the aligned action.
And it's in the marriage ofboth where we're able to come to
(08:12):
a place where you know themanifestation or the
transformations do happen, butit can't just come from a place
where it's solely one energy orthe other Like.
We can't manifest from a pureyin state and we can't manifest
from a pure yang state either,because we lose track of what
(08:34):
the intentions were 100%.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And let me tell you, I have tried really, really hard
to manifest success in mybusiness purely from feminine
energy.
I was showing up online,treating Instagram basically
like my dear diary entry.
I was fully speaking from myheart, preaching what I thought
(09:03):
everybody should now embrace intheir life and what you said
also wanting to be so relaxedabout everything, but without
the inner work, right withoutthe embodiment, and without
actually doing taking the actionto create relaxing environment
(09:30):
for ourselves, it just doesn'tmake freaking sense, right?
It's?
I know and I truly speak from myown experience that probably
the time when I was in thisextreme feminine expression
where I just thought thatjournaling is the answer to all
(09:51):
my problems and that my clientswill manifest out of nowhere, I
was probably the most depressedand unhappy with my business.
And unhappy with my business, Ijust was lacking direction, and
it was only until I came to therealization that there has to be
(10:12):
this balance, there has to becommunication between who I am
and what I'm bringing into theworld.
Right, I think for me, finally,the penny dropped when I
realized that my business wasnot about me, and I feel that so
many women I work with come tome with this attitude of taking
(10:37):
everything so personally in thebusiness, and I really think it
comes from us misunderstandingthis feminine expression,
misunderstanding that theproblems of our business
problems or results of ourbusiness make something mean
about me and about my worth.
(10:59):
And trying to work throughstrategic issues, trying to work
through content issues or saleswith inner work it's just like
applying wrong tools in thewrong place.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, I think that our work is very similar in that
like for me, when I have peoplecome, it's typically after
they've tried a lot of thesestrategies already, so I tend to
have folks who are a little bitmore young driven just
generally.
I know that that's the spacethat I used to live my life and
(11:39):
so I think that there's a bit ofrelatability and and resonance
there, and so when folks show upin my space, it's like I've
taken those courses, I havedownloaded those email templates
, I have tried to write a salespage based on this person's
framework, and there's somethingabout it that feels either
(12:02):
disingenuous or like they getfrozen and stuck, and so that, I
think, is the perfect time todo what I call like the yin work
.
Right, like you go back in andyou think about the values that
your business like sits on, andjust even thinking about just
(12:25):
the values of it helps decenteryou as the like human being at
the center of all of this andbrings it back into how it is
that you support your clients.
This is also the place where Ilove doing inner child work and
somatic work with folks, because, like if there's like a little
(12:46):
kid in there who had to surviveby being small, by not taking up
space.
And then you're saying, hey,like marketing, inherently you
have to be more outward and youhave to take up a little bit
more space, little bit morespace.
(13:07):
That little kid feels reallyscared and upset and actually
might feel like like justterrified about that.
And so, like, to me it's, it's.
It's not just about hey, likewe have to implement these
strategies, it's like no, wehave to actually go into that
space, go into those deepcaverns where we might have
hidden some fears and some, youknow, insecurities, and help
(13:28):
those parts feel safe again.
And then, like running abusiness, like the strategy part
is actually easy.
You know it's, it's the, thetools we feel like we can't use
because we're not coming to itfrom a place of intentionality.
And that's where I think peopleget really burnt out on
(13:49):
business strategy is becausethere's 10,000 different things
that you could do differently.
And so how do you know what tochoose for yourself if you
aren't in alignment and youaren't feeling rooted and
grounded in your own sort ofsense of values and self?
Um?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
and so, yeah, I think that that's, that's kind of the
intersectionality of our worktogether totally and I think you
bring an important piece of howbusiness is or business
coaching is sold these days, andespecially the feminine energy,
business coaching.
(14:30):
Because, I've experienced spaceswhere I was literally a baby
business owner, with zeroclients, zero strategy, zero
understanding of what itactually takes to run a business
, and I have joined businessmasterminds led by feminine
(14:52):
energy coaches who taught menothing about strategy, about
the foundations that I need as abusiness owner to create myself
, you know, sustainable incomeand sustainable environment for
my business and, at the sametime, being told you know, or
(15:14):
just relax and manifest themoney that you need for the next
month's payment or somethinglike this, like the, or
something like this like the.
That's what I meant with theexploitation of the feminine
that for me.
I came, I came from anon-profit background.
(15:34):
I was working as a fundraiserfor our charities in london and
I was organizing loads of events, project managing, managing, et
cetera, and I came from thisvery quote unquote masculine
environment for myself.
So after and it's been alreadya few years after I started my
(15:57):
feminine energy work in terms ofrelationships and in terms of
inner healing.
So once I found out that I canactually apply all of this that
I was already doing in my lifeto business, I was completely
charmed by it.
I was like, yeah, 100%, Imanifested a husband.
(16:18):
I can manifest clients, right,it's so easy.
And no one well, no one evertells you that if you're doing
this work in isolation, itsounds great and beautiful,
right.
It's like doing therelationship healing before
you're actually in arelationship, right?
(16:40):
Or doing the feminine energybusiness before you actually run
business.
And in my understanding now andin my view, the business is
actually a masculine function inour life the same like money,
(17:07):
the same as anything that againbridges that gap between us and
the outside world.
So, understanding that themasculine, like our business,
like our partner, needssomething different from us than
just journaling, than justself-care, than walks in the
(17:28):
garden all day, was what reallyshifted for me Once I started
looking at it.
Okay, how do I become a betterpartner?
Instead of making everythingabout myself, instead of trying
to manifest things out of theblue, how do I actually apply
these masculine functions thatare already available and make
(17:52):
them work for me, make themcarry my energy, make them carry
my message to the right people?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
so what you're bringing up for me is another
myth that I want to bust, um,which is especially in this like
era of social media.
It seems like, hey, you justfigure out how to coach and then
you put your shingle up onInstagram and then all of a
(18:21):
sudden, boom, you've got clients.
And I really, really want tobust that myth, because business
is hard, like running abusiness that is soul aligned,
that is rooted in the medicineof your life, like I really
(18:47):
think about, you know,everything that I teach as being
um, little little nuggets of ofwisdom that I really want to
share with the world.
Um, this shit is hard and I'mreally Um, this shit is hard and
I'm really, really tired ofthis, this myth that's out there
(19:09):
of you know, just download myyou know sales call template and
you're going to be making 10 Kmonths in no time.
Like that's not how this works.
Um, and for anybody who's beenout there and kind of been burnt
by this whole system, like I'mso sorry, uh, that that has
(19:30):
happened to you, because I'veseen it happen over and over and
over again where people arelike, why does so-and-so make it
look so easy?
It's because they're notactually showing what's
underneath the surface of whatit means to run their business.
What's underneath?
the surface of what it means torun their business.
And I say this with a lot oflove for the hard parts.
I think business is supposed tobe hard, otherwise we'd all be
(19:56):
solopreneurs out there doing ourlife's work.
It's really hard work to firstof all say I want to do
something different.
You know the fact that you knowI have so many clients who are
leaving their systematized jobs,like I have so many therapists
(20:16):
and teachers this year for somereason who are leaving, leaving
their comfy, cozy worlds ofthese systems and saying, hey,
like I want to do somethingdifferent.
Like that in and of itself isfucking hard.
So like let's stop glossingover the hard parts and sharing
(20:37):
some of these hard parts,because I think that you know
when we can get real about it.
A it gives people a real senseof what it takes to run a
business, and then they're notdisillusioned by the fact that
it's hard.
(20:58):
And it's hard on like both thelike yin and the yang.
And it's hard on like both thelike yin and the yang.
Like it's hard to do the innerwork and it's hard to like be
consistent with the strategy inthe business systems.
And so like, both sides aredifficult and you know, when it
(21:26):
comes to like what you were justsharing about, like oh, I was
able to, you know, bring in myfeminine energy and then
manifest my husband, and it wasso easy.
And now, look, I should be ableto do it with my business.
I remember my husband telling methis, actually before we met is
he like was like, hey, I want apartner who is outdoorsy and I
want a partner who, like, caresabout the same things that I
(21:46):
care about, and he sort of likelisted out all these things that
he really wanted in a partner.
And then he like looked at hislife and was like I'm working so
much, like he was working in anightclub and just spent so much
time at work.
And I'm not eating healthy, I'msmoking cigarettes, I am doing
all these things that like if Imet that person that like
(22:09):
partner that I'm like sort ofenvisioning for myself, would
they even want to be my partner.
And so he had to do like thatyin yang work that we're just
talking about, of like saying Iwant to hold this intention of
that kind of partner, saying Iwant to hold this intention of
that kind of partner and I alsoneed to put in some of my young
effort, my aligned actions tomake that happen.
(22:30):
And so, like it's both right,like, whether we're talking
about relationships or whetherwe're talking about business, we
have to hold thatintentionality and we have to
take those aligned actions.
And so he quit smoking, hepicked up some of these hobbies
that he's always talked aboutwanting to do, and so then, when
we met, all I had to do was sayyes.
(22:50):
It was so easy to say yes tohim.
And so, when we diminish thehard work of what it takes to
embody a good partner, or whatit takes to embody a spiritual
entrepreneur, or what it takesto embody a ethical coach, like
(23:13):
yeah, we just see the very to betop of that iceberg and there's
this like entire worldlandscape underneath.
And I want us to like reallyunderstand and that's the myth
that I want to bust here is that, like you know, don't fall for
the like facade and the likething that people show you at
the very top.
You know, I try really hard inmy business and on my platforms
(23:37):
to be like shit is really hard,like you know, and not coming
from a place of like please saveme or please help me, it's just
like I want us all to be ableto relate in community about how
difficult this stuff is, and Ithink that that is such an
important part of this work isactually building community
around it, because, like youwere saying earlier, you know
(23:59):
when you're doing this stuff inisolation, it it makes it so
that it feels like you're theonly person who has ever
experienced this in this entirelike um, you know however many
years that businesses have beenbeing run.
It makes you feel like there'ssomething wrong with you, like
there's something broken aboutyou and Like there's something
(24:19):
broken about you, and that isabsolutely not true, business is
hard, absolutely 100%.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And yeah, business is hard, like you need to, I don't
know.
I graduated with a certaindegree, with a certain set of
skills, and I applied that andsomebody told me what were my
tasks and what were my deadlinesand, like I get, I got proper
instruction, even when I wasrunning new projects.
(24:46):
I basically continued repeatingthe job that I was doing for 10
plus years, right, and when youstep into entrepreneurship all
of the sudden, you have to knowwhat are your deadlines and you
have to be the one that meetsthose deadlines and all of this
you need to learn a whole lot.
(25:08):
And I really don't think, as yousaid, I really don't think all
of us have to be entrepreneurs,right?
And also I think this idea thatit's so easy, first of all, as
you alluded to it leads to suchlevel of like self gaslighting
(25:30):
with why is it this?
Why is this not working?
Why am I the only one in thismastermind that is just falling
behind?
Because it's supposed to be aseasy as journaling in the
morning and having a midday bath.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And it's just BS.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It's just, that's not the reality of what business
actually needs.
And again, coming back, myreflection.
That happened one and a halfyears ago, when I finally
realized that business is notabout me, it's about the people
I serve.
It's about the people that thelives will be transformed by
(26:14):
working with me and looking atwhat do they need from me.
Working with me and looking atwhat do they need from me, how
do I, where do I need to show upso that I connect with them?
And this is for me when thisbalance of yin and yang came
into realization, because, onthe one hand, as you say, it's
(26:35):
not easy to be consistent withour strategy, especially when it
feels like nothing is workingand we see things in this very
dualistic way in our business.
And then doing the work, theinner work that actually
supports us, to become theperson that is consistent, that
(26:57):
trusts in this unknown terrainthat we navigate day to day and
then deals with the judgment,questions etc.
From our environments.
Right, it's, it's not easy andit's a beautiful story you
(27:19):
shared about your husband,because, yeah, you can easily
kind of throw it out and say, oh, I just manifested my husband
and it was so easy.
In my case, I knew my husbandfor 10 years before we got
married.
We even were flatmates atcertain points.
We even were flatmates atcertain points, and I think this
(27:54):
story also just shows thatthere has to be a certain level
of growth and development thathas to happen before you're
ready to enter that nextcommitment.
And simply saying that work onyour energy and things will
start falling into your lap justdoesn't work.
If you just sit at home and notshow up um for the people that
you want to meet right, or youshow up in the wrong places, and
(28:15):
I'm speaking both romanticallyand business.
In the business context, youhave to be the person that is
out there, especially whenyou're an entrepreneur to wave
your flag and say this is me.
and yes, I mean right now.
The entry level to business islow and I think that's
(28:37):
absolutely fantastic becausehighly likely I would not have
started the business I haveright now if it wasn't for the
fact that, on the one hand, itis easy to establish a business
online.
But I also know that I wouldn'thave stuck around for four plus
years if it wasn't for the work, for the inner work that was in
(29:03):
there for me that kept me goingthat.
You know, meeting my own um,meeting my own edge and
exploring that and going beyondthat, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I didn't realize that this is just going to be like
an airing out of the like onlinecoaching industry today.
But as you were talking, I hadanother sort of myth that I want
to bust here, because I feellike there's this idea that like
(29:41):
, oh, if you just downloadsomebody's strategy or download
somebody's formula, it's goingto bring in all these followers
or whatever it is that they'repromising.
I've been running this businessfor four years, but I've been
running businesses since 2007.
And let me tell you, everysingle time I launch, it is so
(30:02):
different.
It's different because I'mdifferent.
It's different because thesocial media landscape is
changing.
It's different because toolsget updated.
It's different because my nicheor the way that I talk about
things might be a little bitdifferent.
It's different because what Isaid a year ago I might want to
(30:27):
amend a little bit because I'vedone some growth and some
learning.
Every single launch is fuckingdifferent, and so if it is
different for me in this onebusiness, I really do not
understand how somebody can say,oh, just take my template.
Here is the blueprint to my youknow, $500,000 launch.
(30:52):
Or here is the template for mywhatever it is that they're
promising.
Like I really do not understandhow you can just overlay that
onto your own business andexpect the same results.
You know, to me, when I see uhsort of those catchy things out
there, of course it like piquesa little bit of interest in me
(31:15):
because it's like, yeah, I wantthis launch to go well Right,
and like I have never seen itwork, like both in myself and in
my clients, and so like I thinkthis is a moment where I'm just
kind of like buyer beware.
If somebody is promising theblueprint is going to be the
(31:38):
answer, or the template is goingto be the answer, or that email
strategy is going to be theanswer, the answer is actually
fully within yourself.
It's going to look a little bitdifferent each time, and I used
to sort of be upset every timeit was different, like I really
wish that I could just send outthe same email every single time
(32:00):
I launch and that way it likereduces my work, my young work,
a little bit.
But that's not how it works.
That's not how relationshipswork.
If you were to just like rinseand repeat conversations with
your friends, you know you'renot actually fully present to
the person that's sitting infront of you, you're not fully
present to who you are, and sothese marketing strategies that
(32:23):
tell you that, oh, you can justfeel so frustrating to me.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, where do I start?
There's like points on pointson points here.
I literally just posted a umpost about it today, because one
thing is that every launch isdifferent.
It's also that on a simplehuman level, we are different.
I wrote that today about aclient who came to me and she
(32:53):
felt completely burnt out withsocial media.
She absolutely hated showing upand before working with me, she
went to a social media bootcamp.
That was basically just realafter real and you have to post
and more stories and moreengagement like the just as I
speak about it.
I want to throw up a little bitand you know, when we sat down
(33:18):
and talked about okay, like, whydo you hate it so much?
What is the actual reason?
It was just bringing up all thepain from her childhood that
she experienced when she wasbeing ridiculed every time she
showed up as herself.
she showed up as herself everytime she expressed opinion,
(33:40):
every time she expressed who shewas truly in her inner state.
Right, yeah, and one thing isdownload my template and it's
going to work.
That's like it's just not goingto work because we are all
different.
Whatever, this person isselling their template right,
(34:03):
and this is why it's working forthem.
What?
you're selling is alsocompletely different in nature,
and every time I catch myself onthis, when I'm like listening
to someone's masterclass or I,you know, look for the marketing
tips masterclass, or I, youknow, look for the marketing
tips and then it's it, justafter a couple of weeks it just
feels funny to me in my business, right it something feels
(34:25):
completely off and I'm like,holy shit, I did this again.
I again, let someone elseinfluence what I was doing
because, as you say, we're justevolving, and and every time I
evolve, every time I feel like Ineed to upgrade my offer.
I feel like maybe there's apart of me that goes out there
(34:47):
and says maybe there's somethingI need to learn here, rather
than completely lean into theexperience that I have already
developed.
And this is also where I feelbringing this yin and yang is so
important, because even on this.
When we look at our physiologyand biology, the feminine gives
(35:12):
once she's received something.
So this is I'm trying topractice what I preach that
every time I receive thisinformation that this is what's
going to sell, this is what'sgoing to attract my clients, I
really give myself the time tosit with this and digest it in
(35:32):
my own right and maybe play withit and see if it's really
working for me.
But I'm also encouragingeveryone to be honest with
themselves, with their coaches,with the people who sold them
the template, saying this is notwhat feels right for me Because
(35:54):
, again, if we don't do this,then we're just gaslighting
ourselves, thinking this is notworking and I'm the only one
that is failing at it, but it'ssimply because we're doing
something that is out ofalignment, out of alignment with
our body, out of alignment withour values, right, yeah.
(36:18):
And this coming back toourselves, coming back to our
core, coming back to what wetruly value in business and what
we want to share, I think forme, has been, apart from
navigating the strategy andreally learning what it takes to
run a business, yeah, and howto be a CEO, not just a solo
(36:43):
entrepreneur, yeah, yeah, that'sa huge piece of work to be on
the lookout of.
Am I making this decision fromthe three year old Natalia?
who wants to prove something tosomeone or am I?
Making this decision becausethis is the best decision for my
(37:05):
clients, for my business andfor me in the long run yeah, and
that's a very feminine trait isto like look at the whole
community, not just yourself,you know, yeah um and
discernment also.
This is also, you know,speaking of finding husbands and
meeting people.
Discernment is also what broughtme, in the end, to my husband
(37:28):
and discernment is also what Ireally rigorously want to apply
in my business understanding,because we can add so much on
top of our business and make itreally complicated yeah and it's
hard to run a business.
We don't have to make it anymore complicated, right, yeah,
and being discerning andallowing our nervous system,
(37:51):
allowing our body to communicatewith us about where we fear
that we're pushing too much,where we feel that we're
overloading ourselves, andfinding the balance and finding
rootedness in that space, Ithink, shifts a lot.
(38:12):
Because I remember my first kindof good sales spree, let's say,
when I got my first clients andit really felt like, okay, this
is now working.
It wasn't just a one-offpurchase from a friend.
I remember that I received, youknow, objections.
(38:36):
Every time when you're havingand I don't know if I want to
call them objections, but forthe lack of better word, I'm
just going to continue usingthat and if I was making
decision, what is the best orlike what is comfortable, I
(38:57):
would probably just say, okay,next time, see you later, you
know, and just like go back andcurl up in my husband's lap and
say I got rejected again youknow yeah I need to manifest
more, yeah, again,three-year-old natalia there,
exactly, yeah, and the shift toactually step into, fully
(39:22):
embodied in both masculine andfeminine energies in me, where I
can discern whether this is agood decision and if it's true,
for me, right, if it's true inits core, and right to do.
(39:42):
Yeah, and also the masculinespace holding for the client and
coaching them to make thedecision that is right for them,
regardless whether it's workingfor me or not.
That was the key that justopened the door because, then it
just at least for me, then itjust got really much easier to
(40:06):
feel like I can actually do thisyeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I think that something that feels really
important to name there is likeboth sides of our masculine and
feminine energies need to showup on on any sort of interaction
that you have with a client,whether it is through your
content marketing or throughyour newsletter or like actually
(40:32):
on a sales or a connection call.
And you know, I think, that it'sso easy to revert back to what
our survival strategy is in theface of what feels really
threatening.
So I'm hearing, you know, inyour story there's this fear of
rejection and the easy thingwould have been like to just go
(40:54):
back into three-year-old Nataliaand say like, okay, I don't
actually want that client anyway.
Into 3yo Natalia and say like,okay, I don't actually want that
client anyway.
But like the wise part of youwhich embodies both sides right,
it embodies the sides of thefeminine, which is saying like,
hey, what is ethical for what?
How is the most ethical way Ican show up in this call?
(41:14):
You know also what is theintention that I want to hold,
which is like I really want tofind people who are really
aligned for me and I also wantto serve this person.
But if their alignment is notthere, then I'm also going to
allow that door to be open sothey can step outside.
And then the masculine itsounds like on this particular
(41:36):
call, like example, I think thatyou can hold space in a very
feminine way and also in a verymasculine way, and it sounds
like on this particular calllike example, I think that you
can hold space in a veryfeminine way and also in a very
masculine way, and it soundslike in this particular example,
you were able to hold space ina masculine way, which is like
about holding and allowing forthe feelings to be there and
allowing for that space and thatcapacity to be there for that
person so that they feel safeenough to make those decisions
(41:56):
of yes or no based on what feelsgood and in alignment for them.
And I think that that is suchan important piece.
That doesn't get taught inbusiness is the way that I was
taught in business.
I've taken two sort of likelonger, longer term containers
(42:17):
and in both of them they talkabout figure out how to address
objections before they come up,so that you have a plan and a
strategy for how to get thatperson to say yes to you.
There's not a conversationabout well, what if I'm not
(42:37):
actually the right person forthat, that client.
You know what if actually Iknow somebody in my community
who would be a better fit forthis person?
Or what if I have thisconversation with this person
and I really feel that you knowit's outside of my scope as a
coach.
Like like that's something thatfeels really important to name
too, is like, as coaches, we arenot meant to serve every single
(43:00):
problem that's out there.
Like I have a very, very clearline of discernment around what
is a coaching um thing, and thenwho needs to refer, who needs
to be referred out to atherapist and who needs that
like that level of, um,emotional support and care that
a therapist is going to providethat I'm not going to be able to
(43:23):
provide, and oftentimes thatcomes with.
Is this person going to beserved with a diagnosis?
Is this person feel like athreat to themselves or to
somebody else?
And I think it's so importantto understand those boundaries
as coaches, because theintersectionality of therapy and
coaching is so like overlapped.
(43:43):
If we don't have that feltsense within ourselves and that
embodiment within ourselves tohold those boundaries, then we
can actually end up doing a lotmore harm than good and I don't
think that anybody comes intothis work thinking like, oh, I
actually hurt people, but we canactually hurt people, right.
Like if we are saying that wecan transform and help people
(44:05):
transform, like we can transformthem to a place where it's
actually not helpful for them,and so like we need to
understand the power dynamicsthat are at play here.
Yeah, a really important part ofthe discernment piece is, like,
if you have a coach who issaying, just do the thing that I
did, just do what I say, that'sLike to me that is a massively
(44:30):
huge red flag.
You know, if you are lookingfor a coach right now, look for
somebody who asks thesequestions around hey, like, how
can we get you deeper withinyourself, how can we get you
more in touch with your ownintuition?
And from that place, I mightoffer some options of things
(44:53):
that I've seen have worked, orthings that I've seen that have
not worked.
And um, that's the experiencethat I can offer, but the
decision of what you end updoing is completely on you,
right, like.
I feel like that's an importantpart of the discernment that
doesn't get talked about 100%,and maybe you also experienced
(45:13):
it.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I've been gobsmacked by people who um are in sales
conversations with me, and thenumber of people that are in
sales conversations with me andI'm saying conversation on
purpose, it's not a process,it's not a funnel, um, and they
(45:38):
come back to me with feedbackthat, even though they may not
end up working with me, theyfeel supported, they feel heard,
they feel that they're makingthe right decision for their
development yeah and one thing Iwanted to mention.
I think this is why and I mean Ihave to explain that I'm using
(46:01):
this feminine and masculine in avery like umbrella um terms,
right where with the femininework.
I include a lot of nervoussystem regulation, our
subconscious programming, ourphysiology, biology, hormones,
etc.
And the masculine is the morestructures, marketing, business
(46:23):
strategies, etc.
So this is, I think, where thiscombination of both has to be
married together.
This combination of both has tobe married together.
It has to come to a mutualpoint, because you can only hold
your clients in this clearspace If you're able to hold
(46:49):
yourself through uncertainty ofthe sales conversation.
Yeah, possible rejection,possible judgment, possible loss
of income, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Everything that comes with, youknow, bringing in clients and
potentially not bringing inclients.
(47:12):
Yeah, clients and potentiallynot bringing in clients.
Yeah, and that's why, when youbring it to this, what, what am
I making it mean on asubconscious level?
Yeah, is it kicking off?
Is it triggering thethree-year-old natalia that
needs to be held by mommy?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
is it?
Speaker 2 (47:28):
triggering my survival response.
Do I need to regulate myself?
So that I can be discerning formyself to see is this the right
client that I should be workingwith?
Is the space we're creating meand my client the right space?
(47:49):
I want to be in right?
Is this where I want to directmy energy and also, can I lead
them in that space withoutprojecting all my bs?
Yeah, well, not bs, but withoutprojecting my past traumas, my
survival mechanism, my abilityto pay rent next month, et
(48:12):
cetera.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
And then I think that this kind of brings me full
circle back to like what westarted the conversation out
with is like sort of our sticky,itchy feelings around coaches
who are like, yeah, just walk inthe garden and like go swim in
the river and manifest in that.
In that way, I think that thereis actually a little bit of
value in that Like it'ssomething that I've been sitting
on this Instagram post and justwanting to say it, and also
(48:46):
like taking a moment out of myday to like film a thing, film a
reel like feels feels.
I don't know why.
There's like a little bit oflike a struggle bus situation
there, but anyways, um, like the, the idea is that, like I, I
actually do spend a lot of timeout in nature.
I do spend a lot of time walkingon my land.
(49:07):
I, you know, snuggle up with myhusband.
I am cuddling with my animalsall the time.
And you know, snuggle up withmy husband, I am cuddling with
my animals all the time and youknow, I used to feel guilty
about that.
Like the masculine part of mewould come in and be like you
should be.
You know, filming a reel forInstagram.
You should be writing anewsletter for you know your
(49:28):
newsletter group and creatingcontent and all this stuff group
and creating content and allthis stuff.
And what I started realizing isthat I do all those things so
that I can build up capacity tohold space.
I think about my marketingactually as an extension of my
holding space, and if I'm not inregulation, then I'm going to
(49:49):
show up in those spaces in adysregulated state, wanting
something out of my clients,wanting something out of my
audience, wanting to see thatlike follower list, going up and
up and up and like not reallycaring about the connection
behind it.
And to me, like, I do all thoseregulatory things because they
(50:11):
bring me joy, they make me feelregulated, they also make me
feel connected both to mycreatures and to myself, so that
I can do all this other stuffthat is more outward facing.
And so we're not saying like,don't go walk in the garden and
(50:31):
like, feel good about your lifeand like, drink champagne.
Like we're saying, do all ofthat and know that it's in
service for, like or actuallyrather know what it's in service
for.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
yes, exactly because it's not a prescription to you
know, walk 10 000 steps a day orsomething like this, and I
think what you brought up thereis a very important piece.
That again, coming back to, um,the conversation we had at the
beginning women who feel like,now feminine energy for them
(51:00):
feels like a chore, because ifyou go out in the garden which
is fantastic and you know, Iadvise everyone I'm not a
medical professional, but it'sgood for us um, if you go out in
the garden and you spend this20 minutes of being in your
feminine by beating yourselfwith beating yourself up and
(51:25):
telling yourself that you're notsupposed to be there and
feeling guilty about it, itfeels like a chore.
Right, we need to do for somewomen and I've definitely been
there for some women we need todo the inner work to release the
oppressor who's?
telling us that the only time weever are productive is when
(51:51):
we're doing something right.
Yeah, because I remember thetime when I um quit my
nine-to-five a couple of yearsago and I was still super fresh
in my business.
It was not like I had, you know,booked out roaster and eight
hours of work a day not at all,but at the same time, I felt so
(52:16):
glued to my laptop this wholetime because I felt like I need
to be alert, I need to be inthis space all the time, because
if I just let myself relax,relax, go on a walk and I was in
asia at the time, so I was in acompletely new country.
I didn't let myself explorebecause I felt that I need to
(52:37):
constantly be present, right,because someone will be checking
what time I clocked in and whattime I clocked out and if I'm
my boss at the same time badboss, right?
So we need to come to this spacewhere I think we know what we
(53:04):
need to be doing in our business.
Right, we, we've got thestrategies, we've got the
foundation, we know who ourclients are, we know how we help
them and we are clear in thetransformation that we offer, so
that we are building thisbridge between them.
But we also have to be in thespace where we feel that
(53:27):
whatever we do is already goodenough, because I think we're
making it harder for ourselveswhen we for ourselves, when we
feel like we're not doing enough, we're not doing it good enough
, and then we're just stuck inthis self-perpetuating torture
(53:50):
where we feel that I quit mybusiness because I wanted to
have more spaciousness and I'mworking 24 7 and of course there
are periods of time when wehave to put in the work in our
business but if we have thisfeminine sense of self-worth
that is embodied in us, then wealso can use structures, can use
(54:15):
systems, can use timetables,etc.
To create the spaciousness.
Yeah, then spend the rest ofyour day in your garden and with
your animals and just fully bepresent with that, rather than
think I was a bad girl todaybecause I didn't record the real
right.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yeah I think that there's something about this
that, like intentionalitymatters so much.
Um, I think the sort of examplethat we used at the very
beginning of the episode, wherewe're, like, you know, sort of
calling out the feminineembodiment coaches who are, like
, just walk in the garden andyou're going to get clients,
(54:56):
like like that feelstransactional already.
Yeah, like walk in the gardenbecause it feels good to walk in
the garden and because it helpsyou feel connected to yourself,
you know, like, if you'rewalking in the garden thinking
that that's somehow going tomiraculously turn into, you know
, uptick in your like, followercount, like that is not, that's
(55:18):
not an embodied way of actuallybeing in the garden, and so like
to me, it's like let's, let'stake the expectation out of it.
Like I walk in the gardenbecause I love walking in the
garden and because it opens upcapacity, and capacity means
that I have openness forconnection and that's really
(55:39):
what it is.
It's like I personally I don'tknow how you feel about this,
but like I don't care aboutreach, like I don't care how
many people you know watch my mynext Instagram reel.
Like what I care about is like,did that connect with somebody?
and even if it connected withlike one person.
Like that it was worth makingthat real because it helped that
(56:01):
one person feel understood intheir life.
And so, like again, and likethe expectation is not like, oh,
now that that person hascommented on my thing, like
maybe they're going to become aclient of mine, it's like no.
Like sometimes people connecton that level and they want to
become clients and sometimesthey don't, and that's totally
up to them.
And giving them the freedom andsovereignty to choose that for
(56:22):
themselves, I think is such Idon't know why that's so fucking
rare in our industry.
Like I feel like what we'retrying to do in the ways that,
like traditional marketing istaught, is to like convince and
like manipulate people intoworking with us, and it's like
that feels like an insecurerelationship and I don't really
want to foster any insecurerelationships in my life.
(56:45):
And so part of holding spacefor secure relationships is
saying like, like you get tochoose to be here.
You know you don't have to behere.
You know you don't have to behere.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Like you're allowed to go exactly and I think you
use two very important wordswhich perfectly describe the
shadow of the feminineexpression which, as you say, in
its balanced expression, isconnected, is present, is
discerning and understands therelationship that is happening
(57:24):
between us and the clients,between us and the business,
between us and the money.
I, like I love looking ateverything relationally, because
it's also just such a simpleexample, because everyone at
some point has been in arelationship.
So I find that, even inbusiness context and strategic
(57:46):
context, it makes so much senseto me to explain it from this
sense that I want to be a goodpartner to my business.
Quoting myself again and yeah, Ithink.
I think one of the reasons isthat right now, with the, some
people call it the divinefeminine awakening I don't know
(58:08):
if I want to go as far, butthere is also a rise of
transactional and manipulativefeminine.
And this comes fromexploitation, right, the thing
that we started with, Becausethe feminine and I mean Mother
(58:30):
Earth, the nature, our bodies,feminine bodies, the feminine
qualities have been exploitedfor so many centuries so many
years, we've been taught thatmanipulation and transaction is
(58:50):
the way to operate and.
I believe that each one of uscarries a version of that shadow
within, because it is rooted insurvival.
It is rooted in our response toI want to be safe and I want to
(59:10):
make sure that I live anotherday.
I want to be safe and I want tomake sure that I live another
day, yeah.
And just simply not being honestwith what am I putting out
there?
And I remember when I came toyour workshop this few weeks ago
about the values and it hit methat my core value was truth, me
(59:41):
that my core value was truth.
Once that nail went in, it waslike I felt like I need to
redesign everything that I'mdoing because if I really take
it to heart and I definitelyhave my in myself this mode of
operating from manipulation andtransaction, I've been doing it
for years, so it takes time tounlearn it.
(01:00:02):
I know that and realizing that,if I want to step into my full
power and in my fullresponsibility as a leader and I
want to be honest and now Iwant to lead from the truth,
that's some.
(01:00:24):
There's a part of me that wantsto forget that this is value,
you know.
There's a part of me that says,oh, my God, let's just continue
things as they were, yeah, yeah, because it's easier, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It is easier.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's basically, you know,mutated young and Yin's clothing
, and so for you to uphold thevalue of truth in your business,
you know you might have to goback and look at some of the
ways in which you've beeninteracting with people that
(01:01:02):
might not have been truthful andyou might need to go back and
look at some of your policies,and you know I think that that A
it takes bravery to do that andit takes bravery to continue
that work, and it's also what isgoing to differentiate your
(01:01:25):
business from other businessesthat are out there that aren't
like looking at these like corevalues within business
structures and being like okay,so like does that?
Am I running my business alongthose values or are?
Is there, are there tweaks thatI need to do to make sure that
I'm honoring those words?
Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, 100%, and I think this is the responsibility
, whatever your value is or thelistener's value is, it is the
responsibility, whatever yourvalue is or the listeners value
is, it is the responsibility ofthe new leadership that you know
this low entry point tobusiness also offers us.
Yeah, this new way ofsustainable leadership,
(01:02:08):
renewable leadership and thebusiness to be conscious about
the relationship we hold witheverything.
Because I remember when I wasdating my now husband and I
started noticing the levels ofmanipulation that I was using
and noticing that and beinghonest about it with myself and
(01:02:35):
then needing to be honest aboutmy needs and desires.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
That was like removing skin that I was living
in at that point, point.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
and I think, just because the skin is very thick,
I absolutely aware and consciousand also grateful for that,
that in my business, because Iwant to race to be a conscious
leader and I want and I want tobe so conscious and present in
my relationship with my business, it will.
Yeah, as you say, it almostfeels like reshuffling
(01:03:19):
everything.
Yeah, and making sure is whatI'm saying is how I present it
through.
Because, coming back to ourconversation from the beginning,
back to our conversation fromthe beginning, I really don't
want to be one of these womenwho say feminine energy business
(01:03:39):
is so easy just journal andjust frolic in the garden and
money will flow into your pocketyeah, because you, you're worth
it, you're absolutely worth it.
So now we have to act this way.
Yeah, act like we're worth itto put some aligned action
(01:04:00):
behind that.
Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Yeah, well, I feel like that was a really like you
like kind of closed the circlethere for us.
Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
It's really good.
Yeah, I thought I'm reallycurious what what will come up,
and I feel this was juicy andfull.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and
your experiences in this spaceand I want to make sure that
people can find you.
So, if you want to, just let usknow here what are your
instagram handles.
Websites like give us some,some pieces of like where we can
find you on the web, and I'llmake sure that those make it in
(01:04:45):
the show notes sure, so I thinkthe easiest way to find me will
be on instagram, and I'm thereat.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
I am natalia gorceva and you can get in touch.
Let me know what you thoughtabout our conversation today.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for havingme, yeah, thank you for being
here and thank you for being oneof the new leaders, as you, as
you sort of phrased it so yeah.
Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Emotional
Alchemy podcast.
I have got my guest, nataliaGorcheva, here with me and I am
excited because we're going todo an episode that's about
busting myths, and those alwaysend up a little bit spicy and
(00:22):
exciting always end up a littlebit spicy and exciting.
And, specifically, we're goingto bust some myths about how
feminine business is marketedthese days and we're going to
share some of our ownexperiences and thoughts and, in
particular, I'm really excitedto hear about, like, how we can
(00:44):
balance, uh, masculine andfeminine energy.
For those of us who are, whohave been in my community for a
little while, you know that Italk about these energies in
terms of like, yin and yang, um.
Natalia uses the vocabulary offeminine and masculine, um.
I always like to sort ofpreface these conversations by
saying like, hey, like, we haveboth feminine, masculine
(01:07):
energies within us, and so wehave access to both sides and we
also have access to, like, themanipulation and mutation of
both sides, and I think thatthat's like, where we're going
to go is like, what is themanipulation, mutation of both
of these sides?
Look like, um, what is thebalance versions of these
(01:28):
energies?
Look like and um, and just soyou know like I will be flowing
with the conversation and umsort of using these terms
interchangeably yin and yang,and feminine and masculine, and
so um fill in the blank withwhatever terms make the most
sense and feel the most alignedfor you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So welcome Natalia.
Hi everyone, hi Kat, thank youso much for having me today, and
I'm really excited for thisconversation as well.
It does feel already spicy.
I've had these conversationsbefore and I must say when I sat
down with you it feels extraspicy, so let's get into it yeah
(02:09):
, I love when people bring thespice.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I I'm, you know.
I don't like it when peoplecensor themselves or feel like
they can't say exactly what itis that they're wanting to say
and so like full space to runaround and say what needs to be
said in this space here.
So I'd love to first get intowhat your observations are when
(02:37):
it comes to the exploitation offeminine energy in business,
what we're seeing out in theonline coaching world in
particular, and I think that's agood, really like starting
place for us to get into thiswork 100%, I think, starting
with the exploitation.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I've been speaking about this for a while in my
circles, how the way we marketfeminine energy, coaching,
business relationships, feels somuch like a product to me,
where and it's not only myexperience I see it also from
(03:21):
many women who have gone throughthe feminine energy world, the
initial stages of it, and theycome out feeling like they just
received another thing to sayanother thing, to do another
thing, to learn.
In my understanding of it, inmy embodiment of it, I feel that
(03:47):
it goes completely against whatthe feminine energy teachings
is about, because feminineenergy is a space of being, is
an expression of our being, ofwho we are.
I like to always explain it.
As you said, all of us haveboth right.
(04:10):
We're masculine, feminine, yinand yang, um, and I always like
to explain it that the masculineenergy is the one that faces
outwards, right, so, away frommy body, into the world, is the
thing that bridges the spacebetween me and other people, my
(04:33):
clients, my business, etc.
So it includes marketing in inthe business context, it
includes marketing content how Isell, what offers I'm providing
, how I'm holding space for myclients.
It's the bridge right.
Well, it's the feminine iseverything that goes within that
(04:56):
faces inwards.
It's who I am.
Who is the person that is doingall these things into the outer
world.
That's how I look at it.
So when I hear women who cometo me and say it's just, you
know, I can't be frolickingaround in the garden, I just
don't have the time, I justdon't have the mental space, it
(05:20):
stresses me out that I have todo.
You know now add hours ofself-care to my routine where I
can hardly find time to hang outwith my kids or with my partner
or actually do what I want tobe doing.
Then it just feels like we'readding another product, it just
feels like we're adding a chore.
And that's not supposed to belike this, because it's supposed
(05:45):
to be about shifting the space,where we're coming from.
It's supposed to be aboutshifting the person who's doing
all these things.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Otherwise, you can spend hours on self-care and
baths and champagnes and stufflike this and you will be
nowhere near feminine energy,closer to burnout I mean, I
think that what I'm hearing isthe manipulation of feminine
(06:17):
energy, but putting them like,almost like putting a mask of
feminine energy into likemasculine energy, so like
putting the mask of yin energyonto yang energy.
It's like, if you actually digunderneath the surface of all
these self-care routines we'resupposed to be doing for
(06:39):
ourselves, it's actually comingfrom a very young sort of
outward facing sort of a way.
I've also seen in this spacewhere it almost seems like
there's this new crop of coachesthat are about like
manifestation and liketransformation, and it's it
(07:05):
feels disingenuous because italmost feels like a like we've
swung too far into the oppositeend of like.
If I just sit and journal aboutthis, or if I just, you know,
feel really relaxed about this,if I am in complete regulation
(07:29):
about this, then you know theclients are going to come
pouring in, or you know themoney is going to come pouring
in, or the baby is going to land, or like name, whatever it is
that we're trying to do, name,whatever it is that we're trying
to do.
Um, and I think that this iswhere it gets really interesting
(07:51):
for me.
Is it needs to be this likebalance?
Yeah, and so for me, like whenI talk about yin and yang energy
, I talk about in terms of like.
The yin is what sets theintention and then the yang is
what creates the aligned action.
And it's in the marriage ofboth where we're able to come to
(08:12):
a place where you know themanifestation or the
transformations do happen, butit can't just come from a place
where it's solely one energy orthe other Like.
We can't manifest from a pureyin state and we can't manifest
from a pure yang state either,because we lose track of what
(08:34):
the intentions were 100%.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And let me tell you, I have tried really, really hard
to manifest success in mybusiness purely from feminine
energy.
I was showing up online,treating Instagram basically
like my dear diary entry.
I was fully speaking from myheart, preaching what I thought
(09:03):
everybody should now embrace intheir life and what you said
also wanting to be so relaxedabout everything, but without
the inner work, right withoutthe embodiment, and without
actually doing taking the actionto create relaxing environment
(09:30):
for ourselves, it just doesn'tmake freaking sense, right?
It's?
I know and I truly speak from myown experience that probably
the time when I was in thisextreme feminine expression
where I just thought thatjournaling is the answer to all
(09:51):
my problems and that my clientswill manifest out of nowhere, I
was probably the most depressedand unhappy with my business.
And unhappy with my business, Ijust was lacking direction, and
it was only until I came to therealization that there has to be
(10:12):
this balance, there has to becommunication between who I am
and what I'm bringing into theworld.
Right, I think for me, finally,the penny dropped when I
realized that my business wasnot about me, and I feel that so
many women I work with come tome with this attitude of taking
(10:37):
everything so personally in thebusiness, and I really think it
comes from us misunderstandingthis feminine expression,
misunderstanding that theproblems of our business
problems or results of ourbusiness make something mean
about me and about my worth.
(10:59):
And trying to work throughstrategic issues, trying to work
through content issues or saleswith inner work it's just like
applying wrong tools in thewrong place.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, I think that our work is very similar in that
like for me, when I have peoplecome, it's typically after
they've tried a lot of thesestrategies already, so I tend to
have folks who are a little bitmore young driven just
generally.
I know that that's the spacethat I used to live my life and
(11:39):
so I think that there's a bit ofrelatability and and resonance
there, and so when folks show upin my space, it's like I've
taken those courses, I havedownloaded those email templates
, I have tried to write a salespage based on this person's
framework, and there's somethingabout it that feels either
(12:02):
disingenuous or like they getfrozen and stuck, and so that, I
think, is the perfect time todo what I call like the yin work
.
Right, like you go back in andyou think about the values that
your business like sits on, andjust even thinking about just
(12:25):
the values of it helps decenteryou as the like human being at
the center of all of this andbrings it back into how it is
that you support your clients.
This is also the place where Ilove doing inner child work and
somatic work with folks, because, like if there's like a little
(12:46):
kid in there who had to surviveby being small, by not taking up
space.
And then you're saying, hey,like marketing, inherently you
have to be more outward and youhave to take up a little bit
more space, little bit morespace.
(13:07):
That little kid feels reallyscared and upset and actually
might feel like like justterrified about that.
And so, like, to me it's, it's.
It's not just about hey, likewe have to implement these
strategies, it's like no, wehave to actually go into that
space, go into those deepcaverns where we might have
hidden some fears and some, youknow, insecurities, and help
(13:28):
those parts feel safe again.
And then, like running abusiness, like the strategy part
is actually easy.
You know it's, it's the, thetools we feel like we can't use
because we're not coming to itfrom a place of intentionality.
And that's where I think peopleget really burnt out on
(13:49):
business strategy is becausethere's 10,000 different things
that you could do differently.
And so how do you know what tochoose for yourself if you
aren't in alignment and youaren't feeling rooted and
grounded in your own sort ofsense of values and self?
Um?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
and so, yeah, I think that that's, that's kind of the
intersectionality of our worktogether totally and I think you
bring an important piece of howbusiness is or business
coaching is sold these days, andespecially the feminine energy,
business coaching.
(14:30):
Because, I've experienced spaceswhere I was literally a baby
business owner, with zeroclients, zero strategy, zero
understanding of what itactually takes to run a business
, and I have joined businessmasterminds led by feminine
(14:52):
energy coaches who taught menothing about strategy, about
the foundations that I need as abusiness owner to create myself
, you know, sustainable incomeand sustainable environment for
my business and, at the sametime, being told you know, or
(15:14):
just relax and manifest themoney that you need for the next
month's payment or somethinglike this, like the, or
something like this like the.
That's what I meant with theexploitation of the feminine
that for me.
I came, I came from anon-profit background.
(15:34):
I was working as a fundraiserfor our charities in london and
I was organizing loads of events, project managing, managing, et
cetera, and I came from thisvery quote unquote masculine
environment for myself.
So after and it's been alreadya few years after I started my
(15:57):
feminine energy work in terms ofrelationships and in terms of
inner healing.
So once I found out that I canactually apply all of this that
I was already doing in my lifeto business, I was completely
charmed by it.
I was like, yeah, 100%, Imanifested a husband.
(16:18):
I can manifest clients, right,it's so easy.
And no one well, no one evertells you that if you're doing
this work in isolation, itsounds great and beautiful,
right.
It's like doing therelationship healing before
you're actually in arelationship, right?
(16:40):
Or doing the feminine energybusiness before you actually run
business.
And in my understanding now andin my view, the business is
actually a masculine function inour life the same like money,
(17:07):
the same as anything that againbridges that gap between us and
the outside world.
So, understanding that themasculine, like our business,
like our partner, needssomething different from us than
just journaling, than justself-care, than walks in the
(17:28):
garden all day, was what reallyshifted for me Once I started
looking at it.
Okay, how do I become a betterpartner?
Instead of making everythingabout myself, instead of trying
to manifest things out of theblue, how do I actually apply
these masculine functions thatare already available and make
(17:52):
them work for me, make themcarry my energy, make them carry
my message to the right people?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
so what you're bringing up for me is another
myth that I want to bust, um,which is especially in this like
era of social media.
It seems like, hey, you justfigure out how to coach and then
you put your shingle up onInstagram and then all of a
(18:21):
sudden, boom, you've got clients.
And I really, really want tobust that myth, because business
is hard, like running abusiness that is soul aligned,
that is rooted in the medicineof your life, like I really
(18:47):
think about, you know,everything that I teach as being
um, little little nuggets of ofwisdom that I really want to
share with the world.
Um, this shit is hard and I'mreally Um, this shit is hard and
I'm really, really tired ofthis, this myth that's out there
(19:09):
of you know, just download myyou know sales call template and
you're going to be making 10 Kmonths in no time.
Like that's not how this works.
Um, and for anybody who's beenout there and kind of been burnt
by this whole system, like I'mso sorry, uh, that that has
(19:30):
happened to you, because I'veseen it happen over and over and
over again where people arelike, why does so-and-so make it
look so easy?
It's because they're notactually showing what's
underneath the surface of whatit means to run their business.
What's underneath?
the surface of what it means torun their business.
And I say this with a lot oflove for the hard parts.
I think business is supposed tobe hard, otherwise we'd all be
(19:56):
solopreneurs out there doing ourlife's work.
It's really hard work to firstof all say I want to do
something different.
You know the fact that you knowI have so many clients who are
leaving their systematized jobs,like I have so many therapists
(20:16):
and teachers this year for somereason who are leaving, leaving
their comfy, cozy worlds ofthese systems and saying, hey,
like I want to do somethingdifferent.
Like that in and of itself isfucking hard.
So like let's stop glossingover the hard parts and sharing
(20:37):
some of these hard parts,because I think that you know
when we can get real about it.
A it gives people a real senseof what it takes to run a
business, and then they're notdisillusioned by the fact that
it's hard.
(20:58):
And it's hard on like both thelike yin and the yang.
And it's hard on like both thelike yin and the yang.
Like it's hard to do the innerwork and it's hard to like be
consistent with the strategy inthe business systems.
And so like, both sides aredifficult and you know, when it
(21:26):
comes to like what you were justsharing about, like oh, I was
able to, you know, bring in myfeminine energy and then
manifest my husband, and it wasso easy.
And now, look, I should be ableto do it with my business.
I remember my husband telling methis, actually before we met is
he like was like, hey, I want apartner who is outdoorsy and I
want a partner who, like, caresabout the same things that I
(21:46):
care about, and he sort of likelisted out all these things that
he really wanted in a partner.
And then he like looked at hislife and was like I'm working so
much, like he was working in anightclub and just spent so much
time at work.
And I'm not eating healthy, I'msmoking cigarettes, I am doing
all these things that like if Imet that person that like
(22:09):
partner that I'm like sort ofenvisioning for myself, would
they even want to be my partner.
And so he had to do like thatyin yang work that we're just
talking about, of like saying Iwant to hold this intention of
that kind of partner, saying Iwant to hold this intention of
that kind of partner and I alsoneed to put in some of my young
effort, my aligned actions tomake that happen.
(22:30):
And so, like it's both right,like, whether we're talking
about relationships or whetherwe're talking about business, we
have to hold thatintentionality and we have to
take those aligned actions.
And so he quit smoking, hepicked up some of these hobbies
that he's always talked aboutwanting to do, and so then, when
we met, all I had to do was sayyes.
(22:50):
It was so easy to say yes tohim.
And so, when we diminish thehard work of what it takes to
embody a good partner, or whatit takes to embody a spiritual
entrepreneur, or what it takesto embody a ethical coach, like
(23:13):
yeah, we just see the very to betop of that iceberg and there's
this like entire worldlandscape underneath.
And I want us to like reallyunderstand and that's the myth
that I want to bust here is that, like you know, don't fall for
the like facade and the likething that people show you at
the very top.
You know, I try really hard inmy business and on my platforms
(23:37):
to be like shit is really hard,like you know, and not coming
from a place of like please saveme or please help me, it's just
like I want us all to be ableto relate in community about how
difficult this stuff is, and Ithink that that is such an
important part of this work isactually building community
around it, because, like youwere saying earlier, you know
(23:59):
when you're doing this stuff inisolation, it it makes it so
that it feels like you're theonly person who has ever
experienced this in this entirelike um, you know however many
years that businesses have beenbeing run.
It makes you feel like there'ssomething wrong with you, like
there's something broken aboutyou and Like there's something
(24:19):
broken about you, and that isabsolutely not true, business is
hard, absolutely 100%.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And yeah, business is hard, like you need to, I don't
know.
I graduated with a certaindegree, with a certain set of
skills, and I applied that andsomebody told me what were my
tasks and what were my deadlinesand, like I get, I got proper
instruction, even when I wasrunning new projects.
(24:46):
I basically continued repeatingthe job that I was doing for 10
plus years, right, and when youstep into entrepreneurship all
of the sudden, you have to knowwhat are your deadlines and you
have to be the one that meetsthose deadlines and all of this
you need to learn a whole lot.
(25:08):
And I really don't think, as yousaid, I really don't think all
of us have to be entrepreneurs,right?
And also I think this idea thatit's so easy, first of all, as
you alluded to it leads to suchlevel of like self gaslighting
(25:30):
with why is it this?
Why is this not working?
Why am I the only one in thismastermind that is just falling
behind?
Because it's supposed to be aseasy as journaling in the
morning and having a midday bath.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And it's just BS.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It's just, that's not the reality of what business
actually needs.
And again, coming back, myreflection.
That happened one and a halfyears ago, when I finally
realized that business is notabout me, it's about the people
I serve.
It's about the people that thelives will be transformed by
(26:14):
working with me and looking atwhat do they need from me.
Working with me and looking atwhat do they need from me, how
do I, where do I need to show upso that I connect with them?
And this is for me when thisbalance of yin and yang came
into realization, because, onthe one hand, as you say, it's
(26:35):
not easy to be consistent withour strategy, especially when it
feels like nothing is workingand we see things in this very
dualistic way in our business.
And then doing the work, theinner work that actually
supports us, to become theperson that is consistent, that
(26:57):
trusts in this unknown terrainthat we navigate day to day and
then deals with the judgment,questions etc.
From our environments.
Right, it's, it's not easy andit's a beautiful story you
(27:19):
shared about your husband,because, yeah, you can easily
kind of throw it out and say, oh, I just manifested my husband
and it was so easy.
In my case, I knew my husbandfor 10 years before we got
married.
We even were flatmates atcertain points.
We even were flatmates atcertain points, and I think this
(27:54):
story also just shows thatthere has to be a certain level
of growth and development thathas to happen before you're
ready to enter that nextcommitment.
And simply saying that work onyour energy and things will
start falling into your lap justdoesn't work.
If you just sit at home and notshow up um for the people that
you want to meet right, or youshow up in the wrong places, and
(28:15):
I'm speaking both romanticallyand business.
In the business context, youhave to be the person that is
out there, especially whenyou're an entrepreneur to wave
your flag and say this is me.
and yes, I mean right now.
The entry level to business islow and I think that's
(28:37):
absolutely fantastic becausehighly likely I would not have
started the business I haveright now if it wasn't for the
fact that, on the one hand, itis easy to establish a business
online.
But I also know that I wouldn'thave stuck around for four plus
years if it wasn't for the work, for the inner work that was in
(29:03):
there for me that kept me goingthat.
You know, meeting my own um,meeting my own edge and
exploring that and going beyondthat, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I didn't realize that this is just going to be like
an airing out of the like onlinecoaching industry today.
But as you were talking, I hadanother sort of myth that I want
to bust here, because I feellike there's this idea that like
(29:41):
, oh, if you just downloadsomebody's strategy or download
somebody's formula, it's goingto bring in all these followers
or whatever it is that they'repromising.
I've been running this businessfor four years, but I've been
running businesses since 2007.
And let me tell you, everysingle time I launch, it is so
(30:02):
different.
It's different because I'mdifferent.
It's different because thesocial media landscape is
changing.
It's different because toolsget updated.
It's different because my nicheor the way that I talk about
things might be a little bitdifferent.
It's different because what Isaid a year ago I might want to
(30:27):
amend a little bit because I'vedone some growth and some
learning.
Every single launch is fuckingdifferent, and so if it is
different for me in this onebusiness, I really do not
understand how somebody can say,oh, just take my template.
Here is the blueprint to my youknow, $500,000 launch.
(30:52):
Or here is the template for mywhatever it is that they're
promising.
Like I really do not understandhow you can just overlay that
onto your own business andexpect the same results.
You know, to me, when I see uhsort of those catchy things out
there, of course it like piquesa little bit of interest in me
(31:15):
because it's like, yeah, I wantthis launch to go well Right,
and like I have never seen itwork, like both in myself and in
my clients, and so like I thinkthis is a moment where I'm just
kind of like buyer beware.
If somebody is promising theblueprint is going to be the
(31:38):
answer, or the template is goingto be the answer, or that email
strategy is going to be theanswer, the answer is actually
fully within yourself.
It's going to look a little bitdifferent each time, and I used
to sort of be upset every timeit was different, like I really
wish that I could just send outthe same email every single time
(32:00):
I launch and that way it likereduces my work, my young work,
a little bit.
But that's not how it works.
That's not how relationshipswork.
If you were to just like rinseand repeat conversations with
your friends, you know you'renot actually fully present to
the person that's sitting infront of you, you're not fully
present to who you are, and sothese marketing strategies that
(32:23):
tell you that, oh, you can justfeel so frustrating to me.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, where do I start?
There's like points on pointson points here.
I literally just posted a umpost about it today, because one
thing is that every launch isdifferent.
It's also that on a simplehuman level, we are different.
I wrote that today about aclient who came to me and she
(32:53):
felt completely burnt out withsocial media.
She absolutely hated showing upand before working with me, she
went to a social media bootcamp.
That was basically just realafter real and you have to post
and more stories and moreengagement like the just as I
speak about it.
I want to throw up a little bitand you know, when we sat down
(33:18):
and talked about okay, like, whydo you hate it so much?
What is the actual reason?
It was just bringing up all thepain from her childhood that
she experienced when she wasbeing ridiculed every time she
showed up as herself.
she showed up as herself everytime she expressed opinion,
(33:40):
every time she expressed who shewas truly in her inner state.
Right, yeah, and one thing isdownload my template and it's
going to work.
That's like it's just not goingto work because we are all
different.
Whatever, this person isselling their template right,
(34:03):
and this is why it's working forthem.
What?
you're selling is alsocompletely different in nature,
and every time I catch myself onthis, when I'm like listening
to someone's masterclass or I,you know, look for the marketing
tips masterclass, or I, youknow, look for the marketing
tips and then it's it, justafter a couple of weeks it just
feels funny to me in my business, right it something feels
(34:25):
completely off and I'm like,holy shit, I did this again.
I again, let someone elseinfluence what I was doing
because, as you say, we're justevolving, and and every time I
evolve, every time I feel like Ineed to upgrade my offer.
I feel like maybe there's apart of me that goes out there
(34:47):
and says maybe there's somethingI need to learn here, rather
than completely lean into theexperience that I have already
developed.
And this is also where I feelbringing this yin and yang is so
important, because even on this.
When we look at our physiologyand biology, the feminine gives
(35:12):
once she's received something.
So this is I'm trying topractice what I preach that
every time I receive thisinformation that this is what's
going to sell, this is what'sgoing to attract my clients, I
really give myself the time tosit with this and digest it in
(35:32):
my own right and maybe play withit and see if it's really
working for me.
But I'm also encouragingeveryone to be honest with
themselves, with their coaches,with the people who sold them
the template, saying this is notwhat feels right for me Because
(35:54):
, again, if we don't do this,then we're just gaslighting
ourselves, thinking this is notworking and I'm the only one
that is failing at it, but it'ssimply because we're doing
something that is out ofalignment, out of alignment with
our body, out of alignment withour values, right, yeah.
(36:18):
And this coming back toourselves, coming back to our
core, coming back to what wetruly value in business and what
we want to share, I think forme, has been, apart from
navigating the strategy andreally learning what it takes to
run a business, yeah, and howto be a CEO, not just a solo
(36:43):
entrepreneur, yeah, yeah, that'sa huge piece of work to be on
the lookout of.
Am I making this decision fromthe three year old Natalia?
who wants to prove something tosomeone or am I?
Making this decision becausethis is the best decision for my
(37:05):
clients, for my business andfor me in the long run yeah, and
that's a very feminine trait isto like look at the whole
community, not just yourself,you know, yeah um and
discernment also.
This is also, you know,speaking of finding husbands and
meeting people.
Discernment is also what broughtme, in the end, to my husband
(37:28):
and discernment is also what Ireally rigorously want to apply
in my business understanding,because we can add so much on
top of our business and make itreally complicated yeah and it's
hard to run a business.
We don't have to make it anymore complicated, right, yeah,
and being discerning andallowing our nervous system,
(37:51):
allowing our body to communicatewith us about where we fear
that we're pushing too much,where we feel that we're
overloading ourselves, andfinding the balance and finding
rootedness in that space, Ithink, shifts a lot.
(38:12):
Because I remember my first kindof good sales spree, let's say,
when I got my first clients andit really felt like, okay, this
is now working.
It wasn't just a one-offpurchase from a friend.
I remember that I received, youknow, objections.
(38:36):
Every time when you're havingand I don't know if I want to
call them objections, but forthe lack of better word, I'm
just going to continue usingthat and if I was making
decision, what is the best orlike what is comfortable, I
(38:57):
would probably just say, okay,next time, see you later, you
know, and just like go back andcurl up in my husband's lap and
say I got rejected again youknow yeah I need to manifest
more, yeah, again,three-year-old natalia there,
exactly, yeah, and the shift toactually step into, fully
(39:22):
embodied in both masculine andfeminine energies in me, where I
can discern whether this is agood decision and if it's true,
for me, right, if it's true inits core, and right to do.
(39:42):
Yeah, and also the masculinespace holding for the client and
coaching them to make thedecision that is right for them,
regardless whether it's workingfor me or not.
That was the key that justopened the door because, then it
just at least for me, then itjust got really much easier to
(40:06):
feel like I can actually do thisyeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I think that something that feels really
important to name there is likeboth sides of our masculine and
feminine energies need to showup on on any sort of interaction
that you have with a client,whether it is through your
content marketing or throughyour newsletter or like actually
(40:32):
on a sales or a connection call.
And you know, I think, that it'sso easy to revert back to what
our survival strategy is in theface of what feels really
threatening.
So I'm hearing, you know, inyour story there's this fear of
rejection and the easy thingwould have been like to just go
(40:54):
back into three-year-old Nataliaand say like, okay, I don't
actually want that client anyway.
Into 3yo Natalia and say like,okay, I don't actually want that
client anyway.
But like the wise part of youwhich embodies both sides right,
it embodies the sides of thefeminine, which is saying like,
hey, what is ethical for what?
How is the most ethical way Ican show up in this call?
(41:14):
You know also what is theintention that I want to hold,
which is like I really want tofind people who are really
aligned for me and I also wantto serve this person.
But if their alignment is notthere, then I'm also going to
allow that door to be open sothey can step outside.
And then the masculine itsounds like on this particular
(41:36):
call, like example, I think thatyou can hold space in a very
feminine way and also in a verymasculine way, and it sounds
like on this particular calllike example, I think that you
can hold space in a veryfeminine way and also in a very
masculine way, and it soundslike in this particular example,
you were able to hold space ina masculine way, which is like
about holding and allowing forthe feelings to be there and
allowing for that space and thatcapacity to be there for that
person so that they feel safeenough to make those decisions
(41:56):
of yes or no based on what feelsgood and in alignment for them.
And I think that that is suchan important piece.
That doesn't get taught inbusiness is the way that I was
taught in business.
I've taken two sort of likelonger, longer term containers
(42:17):
and in both of them they talkabout figure out how to address
objections before they come up,so that you have a plan and a
strategy for how to get thatperson to say yes to you.
There's not a conversationabout well, what if I'm not
(42:37):
actually the right person forthat, that client.
You know what if actually Iknow somebody in my community
who would be a better fit forthis person?
Or what if I have thisconversation with this person
and I really feel that you knowit's outside of my scope as a
coach.
Like like that's something thatfeels really important to name
too, is like, as coaches, we arenot meant to serve every single
(43:00):
problem that's out there.
Like I have a very, very clearline of discernment around what
is a coaching um thing, and thenwho needs to refer, who needs
to be referred out to atherapist and who needs that
like that level of, um,emotional support and care that
a therapist is going to providethat I'm not going to be able to
(43:23):
provide, and oftentimes thatcomes with.
Is this person going to beserved with a diagnosis?
Is this person feel like athreat to themselves or to
somebody else?
And I think it's so importantto understand those boundaries
as coaches, because theintersectionality of therapy and
coaching is so like overlapped.
(43:43):
If we don't have that feltsense within ourselves and that
embodiment within ourselves tohold those boundaries, then we
can actually end up doing a lotmore harm than good and I don't
think that anybody comes intothis work thinking like, oh, I
actually hurt people, but we canactually hurt people, right.
Like if we are saying that wecan transform and help people
(44:05):
transform, like we can transformthem to a place where it's
actually not helpful for them,and so like we need to
understand the power dynamicsthat are at play here.
Yeah, a really important part ofthe discernment piece is, like,
if you have a coach who issaying, just do the thing that I
did, just do what I say, that'sLike to me that is a massively
(44:30):
huge red flag.
You know, if you are lookingfor a coach right now, look for
somebody who asks thesequestions around hey, like, how
can we get you deeper withinyourself, how can we get you
more in touch with your ownintuition?
And from that place, I mightoffer some options of things
(44:53):
that I've seen have worked, orthings that I've seen that have
not worked.
And um, that's the experiencethat I can offer, but the
decision of what you end updoing is completely on you,
right, like.
I feel like that's an importantpart of the discernment that
doesn't get talked about 100%,and maybe you also experienced
(45:13):
it.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I've been gobsmacked by people who um are in sales
conversations with me, and thenumber of people that are in
sales conversations with me andI'm saying conversation on
purpose, it's not a process,it's not a funnel, um, and they
(45:38):
come back to me with feedbackthat, even though they may not
end up working with me, theyfeel supported, they feel heard,
they feel that they're makingthe right decision for their
development yeah and one thing Iwanted to mention.
I think this is why and I mean Ihave to explain that I'm using
(46:01):
this feminine and masculine in avery like umbrella um terms,
right where with the femininework.
I include a lot of nervoussystem regulation, our
subconscious programming, ourphysiology, biology, hormones,
etc.
And the masculine is the morestructures, marketing, business
(46:23):
strategies, etc.
So this is, I think, where thiscombination of both has to be
married together.
This combination of both has tobe married together.
It has to come to a mutualpoint, because you can only hold
your clients in this clearspace If you're able to hold
(46:49):
yourself through uncertainty ofthe sales conversation.
Yeah, possible rejection,possible judgment, possible loss
of income, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Everything that comes with, youknow, bringing in clients and
potentially not bringing inclients.
(47:12):
Yeah, clients and potentiallynot bringing in clients.
Yeah, and that's why, when youbring it to this, what, what am
I making it mean on asubconscious level?
Yeah, is it kicking off?
Is it triggering thethree-year-old natalia that
needs to be held by mommy?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
is it?
Speaker 2 (47:28):
triggering my survival response.
Do I need to regulate myself?
So that I can be discerning formyself to see is this the right
client that I should be workingwith?
Is the space we're creating meand my client the right space?
(47:49):
I want to be in right?
Is this where I want to directmy energy and also, can I lead
them in that space withoutprojecting all my bs?
Yeah, well, not bs, but withoutprojecting my past traumas, my
survival mechanism, my abilityto pay rent next month, et
(48:12):
cetera.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
And then I think that this kind of brings me full
circle back to like what westarted the conversation out
with is like sort of our sticky,itchy feelings around coaches
who are like, yeah, just walk inthe garden and like go swim in
the river and manifest in that.
In that way, I think that thereis actually a little bit of
value in that Like it'ssomething that I've been sitting
on this Instagram post and justwanting to say it, and also
(48:46):
like taking a moment out of myday to like film a thing, film a
reel like feels feels.
I don't know why.
There's like a little bit oflike a struggle bus situation
there, but anyways, um, like the, the idea is that, like I, I
actually do spend a lot of timeout in nature.
I do spend a lot of time walkingon my land.
(49:07):
I, you know, snuggle up with myhusband.
I am cuddling with my animalsall the time.
And you know, snuggle up withmy husband, I am cuddling with
my animals all the time and youknow, I used to feel guilty
about that.
Like the masculine part of mewould come in and be like you
should be.
You know, filming a reel forInstagram.
You should be writing anewsletter for you know your
(49:28):
newsletter group and creatingcontent and all this stuff group
and creating content and allthis stuff.
And what I started realizing isthat I do all those things so
that I can build up capacity tohold space.
I think about my marketingactually as an extension of my
holding space, and if I'm not inregulation, then I'm going to
(49:49):
show up in those spaces in adysregulated state, wanting
something out of my clients,wanting something out of my
audience, wanting to see thatlike follower list, going up and
up and up and like not reallycaring about the connection
behind it.
And to me, like, I do all thoseregulatory things because they
(50:11):
bring me joy, they make me feelregulated, they also make me
feel connected both to mycreatures and to myself, so that
I can do all this other stuffthat is more outward facing.
And so we're not saying like,don't go walk in the garden and
(50:31):
like, feel good about your lifeand like, drink champagne.
Like we're saying, do all ofthat and know that it's in
service for, like or actuallyrather know what it's in service
for.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
yes, exactly because it's not a prescription to you
know, walk 10 000 steps a day orsomething like this, and I
think what you brought up thereis a very important piece.
That again, coming back to, um,the conversation we had at the
beginning women who feel like,now feminine energy for them
(51:00):
feels like a chore, because ifyou go out in the garden which
is fantastic and you know, Iadvise everyone I'm not a
medical professional, but it'sgood for us um, if you go out in
the garden and you spend this20 minutes of being in your
feminine by beating yourselfwith beating yourself up and
(51:25):
telling yourself that you're notsupposed to be there and
feeling guilty about it, itfeels like a chore.
Right, we need to do for somewomen and I've definitely been
there for some women we need todo the inner work to release the
oppressor who's?
telling us that the only time weever are productive is when
(51:51):
we're doing something right.
Yeah, because I remember thetime when I um quit my
nine-to-five a couple of yearsago and I was still super fresh
in my business.
It was not like I had, you know,booked out roaster and eight
hours of work a day not at all,but at the same time, I felt so
(52:16):
glued to my laptop this wholetime because I felt like I need
to be alert, I need to be inthis space all the time, because
if I just let myself relax,relax, go on a walk and I was in
asia at the time, so I was in acompletely new country.
I didn't let myself explorebecause I felt that I need to
(52:37):
constantly be present, right,because someone will be checking
what time I clocked in and whattime I clocked out and if I'm
my boss at the same time badboss, right?
So we need to come to this spacewhere I think we know what we
(53:04):
need to be doing in our business.
Right, we, we've got thestrategies, we've got the
foundation, we know who ourclients are, we know how we help
them and we are clear in thetransformation that we offer, so
that we are building thisbridge between them.
But we also have to be in thespace where we feel that
(53:27):
whatever we do is already goodenough, because I think we're
making it harder for ourselveswhen we for ourselves, when we
feel like we're not doing enough, we're not doing it good enough
, and then we're just stuck inthis self-perpetuating torture
(53:50):
where we feel that I quit mybusiness because I wanted to
have more spaciousness and I'mworking 24 7 and of course there
are periods of time when wehave to put in the work in our
business but if we have thisfeminine sense of self-worth
that is embodied in us, then wealso can use structures, can use
(54:15):
systems, can use timetables,etc.
To create the spaciousness.
Yeah, then spend the rest ofyour day in your garden and with
your animals and just fully bepresent with that, rather than
think I was a bad girl todaybecause I didn't record the real
right.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yeah I think that there's something about this
that, like intentionalitymatters so much.
Um, I think the sort of examplethat we used at the very
beginning of the episode, wherewe're, like, you know, sort of
calling out the feminineembodiment coaches who are, like
, just walk in the garden andyou're going to get clients,
(54:56):
like like that feelstransactional already.
Yeah, like walk in the gardenbecause it feels good to walk in
the garden and because it helpsyou feel connected to yourself,
you know, like, if you'rewalking in the garden thinking
that that's somehow going tomiraculously turn into, you know
, uptick in your like, followercount, like that is not, that's
(55:18):
not an embodied way of actuallybeing in the garden, and so like
to me, it's like let's, let'stake the expectation out of it.
Like I walk in the gardenbecause I love walking in the
garden and because it opens upcapacity, and capacity means
that I have openness forconnection and that's really
(55:39):
what it is.
It's like I personally I don'tknow how you feel about this,
but like I don't care aboutreach, like I don't care how
many people you know watch my mynext Instagram reel.
Like what I care about is like,did that connect with somebody?
and even if it connected withlike one person.
Like that it was worth makingthat real because it helped that
(56:01):
one person feel understood intheir life.
And so, like again, and likethe expectation is not like, oh,
now that that person hascommented on my thing, like
maybe they're going to become aclient of mine, it's like no.
Like sometimes people connecton that level and they want to
become clients and sometimesthey don't, and that's totally
up to them.
And giving them the freedom andsovereignty to choose that for
(56:22):
themselves, I think is such Idon't know why that's so fucking
rare in our industry.
Like I feel like what we'retrying to do in the ways that,
like traditional marketing istaught, is to like convince and
like manipulate people intoworking with us, and it's like
that feels like an insecurerelationship and I don't really
want to foster any insecurerelationships in my life.
(56:45):
And so part of holding spacefor secure relationships is
saying like, like you get tochoose to be here.
You know you don't have to behere.
You know you don't have to behere.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Like you're allowed to go exactly and I think you
use two very important wordswhich perfectly describe the
shadow of the feminineexpression which, as you say, in
its balanced expression, isconnected, is present, is
discerning and understands therelationship that is happening
(57:24):
between us and the clients,between us and the business,
between us and the money.
I, like I love looking ateverything relationally, because
it's also just such a simpleexample, because everyone at
some point has been in arelationship.
So I find that, even inbusiness context and strategic
(57:46):
context, it makes so much senseto me to explain it from this
sense that I want to be a goodpartner to my business.
Quoting myself again and yeah, Ithink.
I think one of the reasons isthat right now, with the, some
people call it the divinefeminine awakening I don't know
(58:08):
if I want to go as far, butthere is also a rise of
transactional and manipulativefeminine.
And this comes fromexploitation, right, the thing
that we started with, Becausethe feminine and I mean Mother
(58:30):
Earth, the nature, our bodies,feminine bodies, the feminine
qualities have been exploitedfor so many centuries so many
years, we've been taught thatmanipulation and transaction is
(58:50):
the way to operate and.
I believe that each one of uscarries a version of that shadow
within, because it is rooted insurvival.
It is rooted in our response toI want to be safe and I want to
(59:10):
make sure that I live anotherday.
I want to be safe and I want tomake sure that I live another
day, yeah.
And just simply not being honestwith what am I putting out
there?
And I remember when I came toyour workshop this few weeks ago
about the values and it hit methat my core value was truth, me
(59:41):
that my core value was truth.
Once that nail went in, it waslike I felt like I need to
redesign everything that I'mdoing because if I really take
it to heart and I definitelyhave my in myself this mode of
operating from manipulation andtransaction, I've been doing it
for years, so it takes time tounlearn it.
(01:00:02):
I know that and realizing that,if I want to step into my full
power and in my fullresponsibility as a leader and I
want to be honest and now Iwant to lead from the truth,
that's some.
(01:00:24):
There's a part of me that wantsto forget that this is value,
you know.
There's a part of me that says,oh, my God, let's just continue
things as they were, yeah, yeah, because it's easier, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It is easier.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's basically, you know,mutated young and Yin's clothing
, and so for you to uphold thevalue of truth in your business,
you know you might have to goback and look at some of the
ways in which you've beeninteracting with people that
(01:01:02):
might not have been truthful andyou might need to go back and
look at some of your policies,and you know I think that that A
it takes bravery to do that andit takes bravery to continue
that work, and it's also what isgoing to differentiate your
(01:01:25):
business from other businessesthat are out there that aren't
like looking at these like corevalues within business
structures and being like okay,so like does that?
Am I running my business alongthose values or are?
Is there, are there tweaks thatI need to do to make sure that
I'm honoring those words?
Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, 100%, and I think this is the responsibility
, whatever your value is or thelistener's value is, it is the
responsibility, whatever yourvalue is or the listeners value
is, it is the responsibility ofthe new leadership that you know
this low entry point tobusiness also offers us.
Yeah, this new way ofsustainable leadership,
(01:02:08):
renewable leadership and thebusiness to be conscious about
the relationship we hold witheverything.
Because I remember when I wasdating my now husband and I
started noticing the levels ofmanipulation that I was using
and noticing that and beinghonest about it with myself and
(01:02:35):
then needing to be honest aboutmy needs and desires.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
That was like removing skin that I was living
in at that point, point.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
and I think, just because the skin is very thick,
I absolutely aware and consciousand also grateful for that,
that in my business, because Iwant to race to be a conscious
leader and I want and I want tobe so conscious and present in
my relationship with my business, it will.
Yeah, as you say, it almostfeels like reshuffling
(01:03:19):
everything.
Yeah, and making sure is whatI'm saying is how I present it
through.
Because, coming back to ourconversation from the beginning,
back to our conversation fromthe beginning, I really don't
want to be one of these womenwho say feminine energy business
(01:03:39):
is so easy just journal andjust frolic in the garden and
money will flow into your pocketyeah, because you, you're worth
it, you're absolutely worth it.
So now we have to act this way.
Yeah, act like we're worth itto put some aligned action
(01:04:00):
behind that.
Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Yeah, well, I feel like that was a really like you
like kind of closed the circlethere for us.
Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
It's really good.
Yeah, I thought I'm reallycurious what what will come up,
and I feel this was juicy andfull.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and
your experiences in this spaceand I want to make sure that
people can find you.
So, if you want to, just let usknow here what are your
instagram handles.
Websites like give us some,some pieces of like where we can
find you on the web, and I'llmake sure that those make it in
(01:04:45):
the show notes sure, so I thinkthe easiest way to find me will
be on instagram, and I'm thereat.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
I am natalia gorceva and you can get in touch.
Let me know what you thoughtabout our conversation today.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for havingme, yeah, thank you for being
here and thank you for being oneof the new leaders, as you, as
you sort of phrased it so yeah.
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