June 6, 2024 • 59 mins
Join us as we uncover how dopamine, the powerful neuromodulator, influences your motivation, desire, and action, especially during the high-pressure process of launching new offers.
We begin with a somatic exercise inspired by the book The Molecule of More to understand what dopamine feels like in our bodies before delving into the biological rhythms set by dopamine and how it influences our emotional and behavioral highs and lows. I offer practices for maintaining long-term motivation and mental well-being by counterbalancing dopamine with molecules like serotonin and oxytocin.
Resources:
- The Huberman Lab Podcast: Controlling Your Dopamine For Motivation, Focus and Satisfaction
- The Molecule of More: How a Single Chemical In Your Brain Drives Love, Sex, and Creativity and Will Determine the Fate of the Human Race
- Emotional Alchemy Podcast Ep. 111: Pivoting When Business Grinds to a Halt
- Bestie Christina Cecconi
Kat HoSoo Lee is an Emotional Alchemy Coach, Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Emotional Alchemy Podcast.
She loves playing in the space where science and spirituality converge because this is where we get to experience emotional alchemy. In her work, she educates space-holders about somatic physiology and environmental biology so they can deepen their practices of listening and presence which ultimately helps them expand their capacity to hold space for others.
As a Spiritual Business Mentor, she guides soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. The work bridges the emotional landscape with practical tools which allow them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, relational marketing and purposeful service.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There we go.
Hi, natalia, it's good to seeyou.
Okay, so a little bit of anintro into what we're going to
get into today.
I created this specifically forfolks who are in the spiritual
entrepreneurship world, and ifyou've ever felt ungrounded
(00:21):
while launching an offer to yourcommunity, this is the perfect
place for you.
We're going to be talking a lotabout dopamine, which is a
molecule that's responsible formotivation and drive and desire
and pleasure, and I want to talkabout how this little molecule
affects so much, about how wefeel and take action as
(00:44):
spiritual entrepreneurs,particularly as we're launching
an offer to our community.
And just as like a little sweet,little snippet, dopamine is
what turns on when you have adesire and a craving to do
something.
It's also that thing that helpsyou get off of your couch to go
do that thing.
It's also that thing that helpsyou get off of your couch to go
(01:06):
do that thing.
And when you actually get thatthing in your hands, you also
get a little spike of dopamine,and so that thing could be a
pint of ice cream, a newromantic partner, a drug, it
could be scrolling on Instagram,a new puppy or new clients,
which is what we're going totalk about here today puppy or
new clients, which is what we'regoing to talk about here today.
(01:27):
So full disclosure.
I felt inspired to have thisconversation with y'all because
I'm in the middle of launchingBusiness Alchemist Mentorship
right now, and dopamine feelsvery much present.
If you're like me, launchingcan feel incredibly ungrounding
and that's why I want to talkabout this, because I look
around at social media and Ilook at how other coaches are
talking about launching stuffand I see them putting on this
(01:49):
like facade of confidence andgroundedness and excitement
while they're launching and theyleave all this uncertainty and
fear out of what it is that theyshow us.
And you know that's not whatI'm about, and so we're going to
talk about it from a differentperspective.
So, as I sat with my own fearsand uncertainty, I could feel
(02:12):
dopamine taking up space in myown body.
It was taking up space in a waythat historically has felt
incredibly familiar.
So I dust off some notes fromschool, I reread and some and
relisten to some material andsome research about dopamine and
that is finally helped me justtake this like nice big exhale
(02:38):
about launching, becauseeverything that I've been
feeling for the last severalweeks during this launch.
Everything that I felt aboutevery other launch that I've
done is totally understandable.
It's totally understandablethat I am a little bit more
activated right now, that I'mfeeling worried, that it's a
(02:59):
little bit harder to sleep, thatI'm scrolling Instagram more,
that I'm craving a bit of junkfood, that I'm living a little
bit less presently, a little bitmore in the future.
All this is understandable andthe why is completely explained
by this tiny littleneuromodulator called dopamine.
And now that I understand it,it's my responsibility to find
(03:22):
ways on how I can support myselfthrough this launch.
And that's really what I want totalk about with you all.
I want to share the biology ofdopamine and if biology scares
you a little bit, don't worry.
You don't need to have ahistory in like cell biology or
understand that.
I'm going to really simplifythings for us and I also want to
talk about how it shows up inthe life of a spiritual
(03:44):
entrepreneur.
And I also want to talk abouthow it shows up in the life of a
spiritual entrepreneur,particularly during a launch,
when you're seeking clients,that dopamine is all about
seeking and getting.
And I also want to sharetangible tools on how to work
with dopamine instead of denyingit, suppressing it or letting
it control your life.
So, by framing it, by framingall this information in the
(04:06):
context of this real worldexample of launching, it's going
to give us a opportunity tointroduce some tools and
frameworks that you can use.
But even if I'm using thisexample of a launch, my hope is
that you feel empowered to usethis example and then you apply
it to relationships, to personalgoals and really so much other
(04:28):
stuff in your life that involvesaround seeking and receiving
and getting.
So, um, I'm getting into thepractice of like re-saying.
I guess we're in the middle ofa rebrand, and so I've, I've
like changed how I introducemyself.
So I'm, I'm putting myself intothe practice of that, and so,
(04:50):
in this little safe, cozycontainer here that's then going
to go out into the podcast, Ijust want to like say that out
loud Hi, I am Kat Hosuli.
There's some new faces here.
There are some familiar faceshere, some folks who have been
through BAM already, and so Ifeel like I'm in this like
perfect little, like cozy space.
(05:12):
I am an emotional alchemy coach,I'm also a spiritual business
mentor and I'm the host of theEmotional Alchemy Podcast, and I
love playing in the space wherescience and spirituality
converge, because this is wherewe get to experience emotional
alchemy.
So in my work, I educate spaceholders about somatic physiology
(05:32):
and environmental biology sothat they can deepen their
practice of listening andpresencing, which ultimately
helps them expand their capacityto hold space for other people
them expand their capacity tohold space for other people.
As a spiritual business mentor,I guide soulful entrepreneurs
to approach their business as aspiritual practice, and the work
(05:58):
bridges the emotional landscapewith practical tools which
allow them to cultivatebusinesses that are rooted in
conscious values, in relationalmarketing and in purposeful
service values in relationalmarketing and in purposeful
service.
So today I tried to do anexperiment.
I tried to go on YouTube liveand I often think about business
as a series of experiments andit didn't work out so well.
The audio didn't pick up, andso now we're here in Zoom and I
(06:19):
get to play this out in realtime with you guys, and so
thanks for being flexible Forthose of you who are listening
to this on the podcast, I'mreally glad that you're here and
you get to hear the recordedversion of it, because the first
10 minutes of our talk was metrying to figure out audio.
So let's talk about dopamine.
(06:42):
The first thing I'm going to dois let's bring this into
somatics, right?
So I'm going to invite you allto place your hands somewhere on
your body Doesn't matter where,just somewhere on your body and
I'm just going to ask you tosink into what that feels like
(07:05):
in your body to have your handson your body.
Are you able to feel your body?
How's your breath?
Maybe?
Just do a quick little glancedown at your hands.
What's within your immediatevisual field?
What are the sensations thatcome up when you look down?
(07:26):
What are some of the texturesthat you can feel beneath your
hands?
For me, I sometimes have to likeclose my eyes to shift into the
here and now, and that shiftinto the here and now, when the
only thing that matters iswhat's right in front of us,
(07:47):
when the to-do list disappearsand sensation is the only thing
that exists.
This is all being modulated bywhat is being classified as H
and N neurotransmittersneurotransmitters, the HNN
neurotransmitters.
What's included in thatumbrella are oxytocin, serotonin
(08:22):
, endorphins, and endorphins arethe body's version of morphine.
We have also gotendocannabinoids, which is the
body's version of cannabis, andwhat these neurotransmitters do
is they allow us to experienceand savor and enjoy what's in
front of us, or they can help usfight or flight our way out of
a sticky situation.
Our way out of a stickysituation.
(08:53):
So now, by contrast, I want youto focus on something that is
just outside of your reach, likefocus on an object that's just
outside of your reach.
It could be something that'sjust like sitting on your desk,
it could be a coffee mug, youknow whatever is just kind of
like outside of your reach, likeyou have to go out and get it
and now go, actually like touchthat thing.
(09:14):
Just that simple act of youfocusing on an object that's
outside of your reach andtouching it meant that your body
and your mind had to shift fromthe HNN neurotransmitters and
shift into a neuromodulatorcalled dopamine.
(09:35):
So dopamine makes us desirewhat you don't yet have.
It drives you to seek newthings.
It rewards you when you obey it.
It punishes you when you don'tachieve it.
It loves novelty.
It inspires our creativity.
It is why we become addicted tosubstances and activities.
(09:59):
It fuels our dreams and itgives us the gas to accomplish
them.
So I am a nervous system nerd.
I view the world through thelens of the sympathetic and the
parasympathetic branches of ourbodies, and I've been doing that
for over a decade.
It's how I teach emotionalalchemy, it's how I teach
spiritual business and it's aframework that I, quite frankly,
(10:21):
I can't shut that off.
I view everything in thecontext of how threatened or
safe does your nervous systemfeel in different situations?
And to me, the nervous systemgives us that context of safety,
but it doesn't completelyexplain how we behave sometimes.
(10:41):
Why do some people cheat ontheir partners?
Where do addictions come from?
Why do some people thrive asentrepreneurs while others
struggle at every turn?
Why does it seem like we arechronically unsatisfied, even
though most of us no longer haveto worry about our literal
survival?
Why do we compare ourselves toothers?
Understanding dopamine bringsin color to what has felt like a
(11:06):
black and white painting, andI'm so glad that I get to share
a snippet of that with you today.
So what is dopamine?
Dopamine is a neuromodulator,and what that means is that it
is a molecule that communicatesfrom the brain to many, many
(11:27):
different types of tissues andsystems in the body.
At the same time, you'll oftenhear dopamine being referred to
as a neurotransmitter, but itdoesn't fully capture its full
functionality.
Andrew Huberman is a podcasterand he talks about dopamine
quite a bit in his podcast andI'm going to use his analogy of
how he explains the differencebetween neurotransmitters and
(11:50):
neuromodulators.
Just as a note, he has a reallygreat podcast episode that's
called controlling your dopaminefor motivation, focus and
satisfaction.
That's worth listening to.
So neurotransmitters imaginethat you're at a concert and
you're sitting next to yourbuddy.
Neurotransmitters are like thetwo people trying to talk to
(12:10):
each other in that concert.
It's like a very intimate sortof situation.
It's a very you know,bi-directional, I guess sort of
a situation.
Neuromodulators are like theband, so the band is the beat
that gets everyone in the crowdto dance in this like
(12:30):
coordinated, organic way, andthat is what dopamine is.
It's like the band.
So this is why dopamine is sucha strong influencer.
It affects us on the physical,the emotional and the nervous
system level.
It can invoke responses likehow fast our heart rate is
moving, involved in people inhere.
(12:56):
It's involved in our cravingfor burritos and it is also the
driver for how we go get thatburrito.
Dopamine works in a nervoussystem to say let's turn on this
set of neural circuits.
In particular, dopamine has twodifferent pathways that it
works through, and we cansimplistically call these the
(13:18):
desire circuit and the controlcircuit.
And in today's conversation,we're going to speak about the
desire circuit because it's themost relevant to our life and
experiences as spiritualentrepreneurs, and I also don't
want to turn this into like asix hour lecture.
I have no idea how long this isgoing to be, by the way.
So, yeah, so, as a reminder,dopamine is all about desire,
(13:44):
motivation, craving and drive.
So why would this be importantto our biology?
Dopamine is strongly tied toour survival, not just as humans
, but as animals that seekresources outside of ourselves.
So dopamine is the universalmolecule that is about foraging
(14:04):
and seeking.
So even earthworms havedopamine because they have to go
outside of their own bodies togo find food.
Dopamine has everything to dowith how motivated you are, how
connected you are to yourdesires and your capacity to
push through effort.
Now I say forage, which intoday's terms, kind of sounds
(14:26):
very cozy Instagram, cottagecore, homesteadcore but imagine that
you lived in the Paleolithicera when our ancestors were
surviving off of what they couldjust forage, not what they
could find in a grocery store.
So for our ancestors, going andlooking for something was a
dangerous endeavor.
So to have the drive to gooutside of what is known and
(14:49):
safe, our ancestors needed astrong boost of dopamine to give
them the oomph that's needed tomove outside of comfort and
safety and into the world ofresources.
So, in short, dopamine is themolecule that says, hey, you
need to go find food, you needto seek social connection, you
(15:09):
need to find shelter and youneed to reproduce.
And because it is also aprecursor to epinephrine, that's
another way to say adrenalineit also helps create the action
to get us to those resources.
It also helps create the actionto get us to those resources.
Now, another thing to keep inmind about dopamine is that we
just felt the contrast betweendopamine and HNN
(15:32):
neurotransmitters, right?
These two systems work incounterbalance to each other.
So dopamine paints this rosypicture of the future, whereas
HNN neurotransmitters help usreally enjoy something for what
it is, not what it can become.
So when dopamine is low, hnnsare high and vice versa.
(15:53):
And, like biologically, thismakes sense, right?
So dopamine tells us to crave,to look to pursue things outside
of ourselves, to go look forresources and satisfaction, to
pursue things outside ofourselves, to go look for
resources and satisfaction.
It also says let's create someaction to go get that.
And so then you get a spike ofdopamine right as you're
(16:13):
fantasizing about something thatyou're about to pursue, and
then also when you get anunexpected reward while you're
in that pursuit.
H&n's, on the other hand, saysI'm enjoying what's right here
right now, I'm not focused onthis thing, this experience
being different, and I'm notfocused on what it can become,
(16:33):
so there's really no reason forme to move.
I can just stay here and I'mpretty happy.
Now, the most popular way thatI've heard dopamine spoken of is
when we talk about social mediaas a dopamine hit.
It is used to describe the whybehind addictive behaviors,
which all sounds a bit negative,but that's only because we're
(16:55):
describing what happens whendopamine is not balanced.
Dopamine, when it isfunctioning how it's intended,
is what drives the evolution ofour lives.
It is functioning how it'sintended is what drives the
evolution of our lives.
The problem is that with humandevelopment and technology,
there is no shortage of whatcaptures our attention for
desire and longing.
So, as a result, we developimbalances in dopamine.
(17:19):
So I just want to pause thereand just check in with the chat
and see if there's any questions.
Just about dopamine as aneuromodulator.
Just to begin there, you good,okay, all right.
So let's talk about howdopamine works.
(17:41):
Essentially, we have a baselineof dopamine that's circulating
in our systems all the time, andI'm going to walk us through a
real world situation to track,like how and when dopamine is
released.
So let's say you're craving aburrito because you haven't had
one in a while.
Dopamine's job is to get yourbutt off the couch so that you
(18:03):
can get that dopamine spike,which then converts to
epinephrine or adrenaline, andthen that creates the action so
you can go get that burrito.
So for nervous system nerds,yes, dopamine triggers that
sympathetic arousal response.
So let's say you get to yourfavorite taqueria and then the
server that you've got a crushon is working, and then they
(18:25):
sneak you a surprise side ofguacamole.
As you're eating your burrito,you're fantasizing about your
crush asking you out, and sothen you get a spike of dopamine
there.
You get another spike indopamine from how amazing that
burrito is, and then, alsobecause there was an unexpected
reward of sorry, jenna, I gotdistracted by your comment your
(18:50):
now official favorite way totalk about dopamine is burrito
based.
Yeah, same here.
There's a reason why I pickedburritos because they're amazing
.
So you're fantasizing aboutyour crush.
You get that dopamine spikefrom eating the burrito, from
fantasizing about your crush andthen also from getting that
(19:12):
unexpected side of guacamole.
But now you've eaten theburrito and you're home alone
again.
You're crushed in, ask you outand your dopamine levels go down
.
They don't go down just tobaseline, but they go actually
below baseline.
So the bigger the dopaminespike, the lower the Valley.
(19:33):
So in other words, dopaminespikes with one, the
anticipation and possibility ofa burrito.
Two, when you are enjoying theburrito.
Three, when you receive anunexpected surprise in this case
it's guacamole while you'repursuing that burrito.
And then four, with theanticipation and possibility of
(19:54):
your crush asking you out.
So the weird thing aboutdopamine is that that's not
consistent.
Let's say you eat a burritoevery day for a month Over time
because you've come to expectthis burrito.
It now the novelty that wearsoff and that dopamine spike
becomes associated, that thedopamine spike that you
(20:16):
associate with enjoyment asyou're like eating that burrito,
that no longer happens.
So they've tested this on ratsin laboratories.
So first they track dopaminelevels in rats who are given a
treat and they get a dopaminespike.
And then they turned on a lightthat was associated with the
treat and what they found isthat the rats got a dopamine
(20:38):
spike with both the light andthe treat, but then, over time
and repeated cycles of lightsand treats, they no longer got a
spike with the treat.
They only got the spike whenthe light came on.
So this cyclical nature ofdopamine is important.
Your experience of motivationand drive is related to the
(20:59):
fluctuations in relationship toyour recent levels of dopamine.
Now, dopamine is a bit of aGoldilocks neuromodulator,
meaning that you don't want yourbaseline to be too high or too
low, and your dopamine baselineis highly influenced by your
actions.
So, in particular, if you liveyour life from a place where you
(21:21):
are constantly seeking, thatbaseline ratchets up and up and
up, which then results in youfeeling underwhelmed from things
that normally brought you joy.
But if that baseline ofdopamine is set high, the spike
has to be that much higher andwhen dopamine spikes that high,
it's going to be a valley.
You're going to encounter avalley on the other side of that
(21:43):
.
That's really low, which is whyso many people experience like
a hangover after peakexperiences.
So in extreme cases.
I don't know if you can see thisthread here, but dopamine
physiology is the explanation ofaddiction.
It's not necessarily that thesubstance or the activity that
(22:04):
they're seeking.
It's actually the dopaminespike that they're trying to get
to.
The irony with addiction isthat the pleasure loses the
sparkle over time, just likethat burrito that you ate for a
month straight.
So dopamine explains why, whenyou repeatedly engage in
something that you enjoy, yourthreshold for that enjoyment
(22:25):
goes up and up and up, andaddiction is really a narrowing
of the things that bring youpleasure.
Over time and repetitions ofthe addictive behavior or
substance, what we do is wedevelop a resistance, and this
is another way of saying thatthe dopamine baseline has
ratcheted up to the point thatthere needs to be more and more
(22:45):
stimulation to get that dopaminespike that these people are
seeking.
You also have to consider thedopamine valley and what that
experience is like.
I have a history of alcoholismand when I think back to that
time it got to the point that Iwasn't drinking for that
dopamine spike.
I was drinking to avoid thedopamine valley, and a hangover
(23:07):
doesn't quite adequatelydescribe what it felt like after
a night of partying anddrinking, because it doesn't
explain the emotional low thatcomes from it as well.
It's easier to stay at that lowlevel of drunkenness to avoid
the crash of the dopamine valley.
So when I listened to theHuberman podcast, he talks about
(23:30):
different substances andactivities and in relationship
to like, how far above thebaseline it spikes you.
So chocolate spikes one and ahalf times above baseline.
It's pretty transient.
It only lasts for a few minutesto a few seconds.
Sex the pursuit of and the actof sex spikes you two times over
(23:53):
baseline.
Nicotine, very, veryshort-lived two and a half times
above baseline.
Cocaine, also two and a halftimes over baseline.
And amphetamine is 10 timesover baseline.
So based on this, we can nowsee why amphetamine is so
addictive compared to, let's say, chocolate.
It's because that spike is sohigh, but also that
(24:17):
corresponding value is alsoreally, really low.
So folks who get addicted toamphetamines are chasing the
high but also trying to avoidthe low.
So now that we've got a sense ofhow dopamine works, let's talk
about how it shows up during anoffer launch, because even
subtle fluctuations in dopamineaffect how we feel about life.
(24:37):
So know that when you're goinginto a launch, you're
voluntarily entering into amoment in your entrepreneurial
life that's inherently going tohave some ungrounding
fluctuations in dopamine.
Instead of making somethingwrong about this or wrong about
us or glossing it over, I wantto help us understand what's
(25:00):
going on so that we can acceptwhat we can and cannot change,
and give us some ideas to helpus feel grounded Again.
I just want to like check inand see if there's any thoughts,
comments, questions, before Imove into talking about launches
, the podcast, andrew Huberman,huberman Lab Podcast, any other
(25:32):
questions?
We're good, perfect, so let'stalk about launching.
Think about what a launch is.
You are envisioning who you'dlike to work with.
You're hoping to reach a goalof how much money you'd like to
make or how many people you'dlike to have in your container.
You're tapping into why you dowhat you do so that you could
(25:56):
talk about it in your marketing.
So it's not a burrito, but youcan see how craving, desire,
motivation and drive are all anatural and a normal part of
launching.
Now it's easier to think abouta burrito as a resource that you
go outside of your body to goget, but a launch brings in
money, which is also animportant resource when we live
(26:18):
in capitalism.
I coincidentally watched a reelon Instagram yesterday.
I don't know how these reelsend up on my like suggested feed
, but it was titled a day in thelife of a rich Dubai housewife
and it showed this perfectlycoiffed woman going through her
day eating all these extravagantmeals all day long, ordering
(26:42):
multiple entrees because shecouldn't decide what she wanted.
She was drinking cocktails thatwere laced with 24 karat gold.
She's getting her hair and hernails done, getting spa
treatments, massages.
She accidentally spent $2,000at Lululemon accidentally spent
(27:02):
$2,000 at Lululemon.
Like you get the picture right.
I couldn't help but view thisreel through the lens of her
dopamine levels, because I waspreparing for this talk.
So dopamine spikes are naturaland they're an important part of
how we move and pursue things.
However, when we layerdopaminergic activities, it
changes what would be a novelexperience into a normal one,
(27:25):
and what that means is that wehave to then ramp up experiences
in the pursuit of a dopaminespike.
So it's why this Dubaihousewife has to layer multiple
experiences into her day to feelfulfilled.
Now, my own intention when itcomes to how I stay balanced
with dopamine is to try to keepmy day-to-day experiences as a
(27:47):
wave, as it fluctuates betweendopamine and HNN
neurotransmitters.
Now we know that we are goingto flow up and down, but we can
influence how smooth that flowis through our actions and our
mindset.
So, knowing that every clientwho signs on I'm going to have a
dopamine peak like that's justa biological process, that's
(28:08):
going to happen, and then I'malso going to have a
corresponding dopamine valley.
So that means that I'm going tobe aware of how my body
experiences dopamine.
In other words, I want thelaunch to be the dopaminergic
experience that it is.
I don't want to layer inoptional dopamine which is going
to raise my baseline, with thatcorresponding crash that lowers
(28:30):
it so.
So when I'm in the middle of alaunch, I am being very
disciplined about eating wholenourishing foods that stabilize
my blood sugar.
I don't drink alcohol veryoften these days, but I'm not
drinking right now.
I'm being really mindful thatthe sugar that I eat is from
fruit and I know that eatingprocessed food layers dopamine.
(28:54):
So I make it a point to not eatsnacks that are coming from a
box or a bag during these times.
And I don't abstain fromcaffeine because you can pry my
coffee out of my cold dead hands, but I do limit it.
I limit it to one cup of coffeeor chai a day.
(29:20):
So another way that we layerdopamine is the phone, and the
phone is a tricky thing becauseit's not just this like singular
thing.
Right, it's a way to listen tomusic, it's a way to listen to
podcasts, it's a way to stayconnected to your friends by
calling or texting them, it's away to share your latte art with
the world.
There's games, there's shopping.
All that is dopamine.
Because the phone is a noveltymachine.
I know that I've personallyping-ponged between different
(29:42):
apps while I lose complete trackof time, and this is because
the phone layers a bunch ofdifferent ways to access
dopamine, and so, of course,it's really hard to stay
grounded after that.
So during a launch, I'mlimiting my phone use.
In fact, I have no phone dayson the days that my husband and
I have off together.
(30:03):
So I'll check in on my clientmessages in the morning and in
the evening and I'll check inwith my friends in those times,
because layering all thesedopamine triggering sources
causes that crash afterwards.
It undermines longer termmotivation and drive To bring
(30:25):
more pleasure to the things inmy life that I really want to
enjoy.
I have to choose to not layer,and thanks Francisco, he just
shared a comment that says wow,that explains a lot.
I've been burnt out from thedopamine valley before.
I think we all have right.
So when I know that my dopaminespikes can't be avoided, the
(30:48):
way that I replenish the pool ofdopamine is to limit the
optional dopaminergic behaviorsthat I engage in, that I choose
to engage in Just as, like alittle sidebar, adhd is often
associated with this lowerdopamine baseline, which is why
there are such extremefluctuations of not being able
to focus and stay on task.
(31:09):
With these moments ofhyper-focus, what we're seeing
in ADHD is extreme spikes andvalleys of dopamine.
Okay, and so remember how I wassharing that the extent to how
low the valley is isproportional to how high the
peak is.
This becomes especiallyrelevant during a successful
(31:33):
launch.
Marketing coaches are all aboutthat 10K month.
So I'm going to work with thatexample.
Work with that example.
If you are used to making around10K per month already, your
dopamine during a launch andlet's say you make 10K during a
(31:55):
launch your dopamine is going tospike a little bit and then
it's going to dip a little bitbelow baseline, so you might not
even feel the valley.
In this case, however, let'ssay it's your first time making
10K.
You never thought you'd makethis much money in your business
.
You never thought you'd makethis much money in your business
(32:20):
.
So that subsequent valley, frommaking about 3 to 4k regularly
and then jumping up to 10k, andas soon as that happened I fell
straight into that dopaminevalley.
I couldn't explain it, but Ihad so much anxiety about that
first successful launch.
Meanwhile, everyone in my groupcoaching program was so excited
(32:40):
for me, even though I washaving insomnia and my heart
palpitations were coming back.
No one normalized this excitedfor me, even though I was having
insomnia and my heartpalpitations were coming back.
No one normalized thisexperience for me because
everyone thinks about that peakexperience and how like exciting
that high is.
And then we mask that dopaminevalley because it seems shameful
that we'd be upset whensomething joyful happened to us.
(33:02):
Dopamine is the marker ofanticipation and possibility.
It idealizes the unknown, andso once that unknown is known,
its job is done.
So, particularly if theaccomplishment took a lot of
effort, that valley is going todrop, it's going to bottom out.
So remember, in that burritoexample example how you were
(33:23):
fantasizing about your crush.
This is what happens when thedopamine rush of the chase dies
down and they actually do askyou out, but it's not grounded
with h and n molecules likeserotonin and oxytocin.
So if you don't make that shiftfrom dopamine to serotonin and
oxytocin, you're going to getthat value.
So frog that first 10K month.
(33:50):
I don't know where I spent themoney, how I spent the money,
but I spent 10K that month.
When I frame my behavior in thecontext of understanding
dopamine, the dopamine value wasso unbearable that I shopped to
get my baseline back up.
Shopping is a dopaminergicactivity, right?
It's no different to what I wasdoing when I was day drinking
(34:12):
to avoid the hangover.
So this explains why after peakexperiences, we experience a
low.
If you've ever experienced avulnerability hangover after you
finished up a presentation thatyou worked really hard on or
you felt the post-vacation bluesor even postpartum depression,
this is happening because yourdopamine baseline shifted really
(34:34):
, really dramatically outside ofyour window of tolerance.
Now I want to share how I workwith the cycles of dopamine in
practical ways that help me feelbalanced.
The first is that I allowmyself to rest after peak
dopamine experiences, becausethese experiences are part of
(34:54):
the joy and the expression oflife.
I don't want to shield myselffrom joy.
I don't want to shield otherpeople from joy because they're
afraid of that valley.
That's not how we have rich andexciting lives.
But we should be aware of howyour body is going to process
that experience.
What we experience as adopamine valley crash is how the
(35:17):
body is communicating that youneed to rest and slow down and
integrate that experience.
We are all meant to go throughyin states, particularly after
high yang states.
We have depression after thesepeak states because capitalism
tells us that we need to keepmoving and get going towards new
goals without integration.
(35:37):
So I rest and I integrate and Igive my body full permission to
slow down for a moment withoutcreating a new goal.
This is also the reason why Ihave long launches.
Right now I am halfway throughlaunching Business Outcomes
Mentorship.
It is a two-month launch and itis two months on purpose and I
(36:00):
find that this pace serves meand my clients really well.
And I find that this paceserves me and my clients really
well, on one hand, when I givemy potential clients a long
period to consider the program,I know that they my
(36:21):
communication with attractionenergy, by showing up
unapologetically as myself, sothat my potential clients can
feel the serotonin pull anddecide if this is aligned for
them or not.
My long launches give themspace to move through the
fantasy of their dopamine spikeand say yes, based on alignment
(36:43):
and based on regulation.
Spike and say yes, based onalignment and based on
regulation.
A long launch also allows me tonot have a layered,
concentrated dopamine spikebecause the enrollments don't
come in all at once.
Right now I have six folks whoare signed up for BAM, with
about eight more who havemessaged me saying that they're
seriously considering it.
If I had all 14 people sign upwithin a week, that dopamine
(37:04):
spike would have me completelyspinning.
This way I get to savor eachenrollment with gratitude, and
gratitude is another way that Iwork.
Gratitude is another tool thatI work with to smooth out those
dopamine spikes.
Part of the intoxicating smellof dopamine comes from reaching
(37:26):
the end result.
This is called an extrinsicexperience, meaning that the
catalyst for the dopamine spikecomes from something outside of
yourself.
So when I lean into thefriction of a launch and I find
both intangible, intangiblelayers to celebrate within the
launch itself, I am creatingsmall intrinsic which is within
(37:48):
myself intrinsic dopamine spikes.
So in the BAM private slackgroup we have a channel called
celebrations where we do justthis.
So in this particular launchI'm celebrating that I was able
to successfully receive tons offeedback from BAM alumni so that
I can continue to improve how Ideliver BAM.
I am also celebrating that Ifigured out that I love teaching
(38:14):
live and it's giving me lots ofopportunities to do that.
And when I'm just going topause and just take a look at
the comment here, tamara saysthe two months is genius and how
you do it and balance and it'sso kind to everyone in the
process.
Yeah, I like kindness.
(38:35):
I like kindness in in launching.
Yeah, so when somebody signs upfor BAM, it's just part of the
current and the wave of thelaunch.
It's not an experience thatspikes and then valleys me into
disassociation.
So I recognize that this soundsa little bit counter to what I
just shared about layeringoptional dopamine spikes.
(38:57):
But how gratitude is differentfrom me scrolling on my phone is
that it brings in the HNNmolecules, which allows me to
stay present through anexperience.
I want to have a long-termrelationship with my business
and long-term relationships arenot built on dopamine.
I had a pivotal moment that Ishared on episode 111 of my
(39:22):
podcast, where I realized that Ihad been holding my business at
arm's length and it took mybusiness grinding to a halt for
me to pay attention and toactually decide that I want to
be in a long-termserotonin-based relationship
with my business.
So by recruiting the HNNmolecules during a launch these
are largely molecules that areinvolved in long-term bonding it
(39:45):
is reinforcing my intentionthat everything is relational.
My business and I are in along-term committed relationship
so I actively find ways toactivate molecules like
serotonin and oxytocin toreinforce that bond.
The lovely side effect of thisis that when clients choose to
work with me, they get to alsoexperience the trust and the
security that's folded into myrelationship with my business.
(40:09):
I like to think of it as goingand having dinner with my best
friend, christina and herpartner John, because they have
a secure relationship.
I can feel the lightness andthe love that's in the room.
It's comfortable to be aroundin the room.
It's comfortable to be aroundtheir love isn't about me, but I
definitely get to experiencethe side effect of being in the
presence of a couple that trulyloves and respects each other
(40:30):
and they have fun together.
It makes it easy for me to beawash in my own HNN molecules
when I'm with them.
In contrast, I've had dinnerswith couples who have had a big
rift in their relationship.
Being a sensitive person, evenwithout them sharing what's
going on, I can feel thattension in the air and it forces
me to think about the future.
(40:51):
I can't stay in the presentmoment when I'm around people
like that.
So I'm thinking what do I needto say to make this a little bit
more comfortable?
How do I iron out this wrinklehere?
How do I get out of here, right?
So I definitely want my clientsto come into a space.
That's a lot more like havingdinner with Christina and John,
and it's my own responsibilityto create that kind of
(41:13):
relationship between me and mybusiness to invite my clients
into.
Another thing that I do during alaunch is exercise the muscle
of intrinsic rewards.
During a launch is exercise themuscle of intrinsic rewards.
There was a Stanford study donewith children.
Don't worry, it's not a scarystudy, even though they involve
kids.
They took a group of young kidswho were already artistically
(41:36):
inclined, meaning they didn'tneed someone to tell them to do
art.
They were just really excitedto do art.
The act of creating art was thereward itself for them.
All the study did was attach areward to the art a gold star
for their effort.
What they found was that thereward spiked their dopamine,
(41:59):
which led to a valley whichdrops their baseline, and now
they are less likely to feelmotivated to create art.
Simply adding a reward tosomething that they already love
doing reduced their desire toengage with art.
So when we focus on the reward,we delay the spike in dopamine
(42:20):
so that there's less pleasure inthe effort and in the doing.
If you push for the end goalthat comes later, you enjoy that
process less, you make it morepainful, you become less
efficient at it and youundermine your ability to
continue to engage in it in thefuture.
So this all comes down to thewhy behind a launch,
(42:42):
particularly when it comes tomarketing materials.
If everything that I create inmy marketing is simply about
getting the reward of a fullroster of clients at the end,
I'm doing the same thing thatthe researchers did to those
artistic kits.
Instead, I try to amplifyeffort through intrinsic rewards
by focusing on the strivingitself as the reward, by
(43:04):
creating content that I want tonerd out about and talk about.
Anyway, this talk is one ofthose things.
I spent the last week just like,deeply immersed in researching
dopamine and, oh my gosh, mynerdy little heart was so happy.
And I also do this by honoringthe friction, the struggle of
(43:24):
launching.
I remind myself that I havechoice in this effort.
In other words, I smooth outthe spikes before I engage in
the launch and I smooth out thedopamine spikes after the launch
and I learn to create waves ofdopamine through the actual
effort itself.
Francisco, I'm just going toread out your comment out loud
(43:46):
here navigating from wildsurfing waves to pleasant
lake-like waters Exactly, that'sexactly the visual that I had
as well.
Yeah, so another thing aboutdopamine is that dopamine loves
fantasy.
Dopamine is the molecule ofobsessive yearning.
So another way that I staygrounded is I stay rooted in
(44:08):
reality, not in fantasy, and Idefinitely need help with this
one.
When I'm in the middle of alunch, dopamine is not rational.
It swings wildly from I'm goingto have a hundred people sign
up for BAM to no one's going tosign up for BAM at all.
So I need to do lots moremarketing.
It's so helpful that I haveAndre, who's my business partner
(44:29):
, who's been with me from thevery beginning, and he reminds
me all the time, sometimes on adaily basis.
We've been here before.
We have X amount of signupsright now, so like just chill
out.
It's also really helpful whenmy husband reminds me that he
has a job as well.
So the launch isn't going to bethe determining factor of us
being able to pay our mortgageor put food on the table or feed
(44:51):
my horses.
So when dopamine tries to takeover, co-regulation is the
counterbalance, because itgrounds the fantasy both the
negative and the positive inreality.
So another thing that I thinkis really important during a
launch is to ask for support.
Ask for help, and then I try mybest and I stay unattached to
(45:15):
the results.
Dopamine helps us accomplishthings, but dopamine can have a
bit of a critical voice.
Dopamine says you didn't makeas much as you did in the last
launch and this somehow feelslike a failure.
Capitalism feeds into this.
The expectation in a businessis that each year you need to
(45:37):
make more than the last year,and then more the following year
, and up and up and up into thislinear growth land.
Hnn help us appreciate thingswhen we get them.
Dopamine is focused on alwaysgetting more, acquiring more
Hunger and satiation isexperienced in the here and now.
(45:58):
Now, of course, I go into eachlaunch with a number of clients
in mind that I'd like to enroll,but in the assessment after a
launch, I ask myself abouthunger and satiation.
The number of students I enrollis not a marker of my success
or of my failure.
It is information.
If I'm still hungry after alaunch, I have to think okay, so
(46:22):
is there something that I needto do differently next time?
What kind of questions do Ineed to be okay so?
Is there something that I needto do differently next time?
What kind of questions do Ineed to be answering for my
future clients?
How can I set myself up betternext time?
How many one-on-one clients doI need to open up to make sure
that the business continues torun smoothly for the rest of the
year?
If I am satiated, I celebrateand I also ask myself okay, so
(46:42):
what worked this time?
What can I recreate for thenext launch?
Do I need to reduce myone-on-one client spot so that I
have the capacity to deliverthe care that I really want to
to this group?
That feels really big?
Honestly, at the end of the day, what I've learned is that
being with the waves of dopaminehas helped me build resilience.
(47:04):
By knowing what dopamine feelslike in my body, I can create
choices around how I want toengage with dopaminergic
activities, instead of being aslave to the whims of chasing
dopamine spikes and avoidingdopamine valleys.
So sit with all this for amoment Again.
I want to just like open up thespace for questions or comments
(47:27):
.
How are we doing here?
I just threw so muchinformation at you guys.
We're doing okay, Okay, solet's sit with all this.
How does gaining anunderstanding of dopamine land
(47:50):
in your body?
Does it fill in a little bit ofcolor on your spiritual
entrepreneurship journey?
Now, if you've been in my space, you know that I'm not
interested in selling you thisstory that entrepreneurship is
easy and that anyone can do it.
If you've been in this worldfor even a few months as an
(48:11):
entrepreneur, you know that thisis not true.
It's really hard.
And spiritual entrepreneurshipis hard because we are
disentangling threads of traumaand years of misunderstanding.
We're restructuring whatcommunity support looks like and
feels like.
We're dismantling extractivebusiness practices and choosing
something that, honestly,because we're sort of like
(48:34):
pioneers on this forefront oftrying to do business in
trauma-informed ways.
It doesn't always feel like ithas form, and this work is
actually meant to be hard.
It's part of the reason why itfeels so fulfilling, and it's
not for everybody.
Now, if I leverage dopamine inmy marketing, I know that I'd
(48:54):
like I'd get more enrollments,but what I would do is I would
attract entrepreneurs who wantto learn how to leverage
dopamine in their own marketing,while also clutching onto this,
this identity of beingtrauma-informed.
I'd be churning out studentswho are wolves walking around in
sheep's clothing, and I'm notinterested in that.
Not only that I.
(49:16):
It would repel the kind offolks that I know who would find
belonging in the BAM community.
We are a small army of witchy,sensitive, nerdy, feral weirdos.
We've got Tamara in here andshe has coined the term feral
auntie energy, and that's whatBAM is made up of, and we all
(49:45):
see business as a spiritualpractice, and so if this
conversation wakes up a sense ofcuriosity on how you would like
to do business differently,more relationally, um, you can
check out my website, which isbusinessalchemistmentorshipcom.
If it's not the right time orthe right container for you, no
worries, I've got plenty ofpodcast episodes for you to
(50:07):
explore.
Lots of conversations happeningon instagram and yeah, that's
all I got on dopamine and I justwant to flick my eyes over to
the chat and just see um, howwe're doing with all this info.
Tamara says this is big, maturewood dragon, energy and
(50:31):
modeling Love it, yay, yay.
Any other thoughts?
I'm also open to to questionsor are coaching.
If you guys are, are okay withbeing on the podcast.
We're good, okay.
(51:06):
Natalia says loved it.
Kat, so eye-opening.
This helped me find morecompassion and understanding for
myself and my body when I gothrough the valley.
Yeah, I needed to find anexplanation for the valley
myself.
That's why I I into to nerdmode to figure that out.
Tamara, you've got your cameraand you popped open your mic for
(51:34):
a moment.
Did you have anything youwanted to say?
We're good.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Oh, I was just going to tell you it's just so helpful
to oh, I was just going to tellyou it's just so helpful to,
(52:06):
yeah, have all the chemicalneuroscience behind this and the
experiences that are so commonand just being able to, like, as
a neurodivergent person, tounderstand, like, how my brain
is creating more natural peaksand valleys and not having
language or understanding that.
And now I'm like, oh, this makesso much more sense.
I feel like around, um, youknow how potentially other
people might just be able tobrush it off a little bit more
or have a little bit moreinternal lake versus the like
tsunamis of chemicals that Ifeel and that's just kind of a
built-in.
(52:26):
You know, um, like my normalbaseline.
So it's interesting to justfeel the full spectrum of like,
even how we're experiencingsomeone else's uh, like, yeah,
ability to co-regulate or or thedifferences in baselines and
(52:48):
how you need to alter that foryour own best practices of of
really adding in that gratitudeor like saying, all right
afternoon cup of coffee, eventhough you are the greatest part
of my day, maybe I'll do amatcha or something that's a
(53:08):
little bit less.
You know different, a differentcaffeine, I do that, Um, so,
anyway, it's just been reallyhelpful, and I think I'm going
to relist this, probably likesix or seven times, and make my
partner listen to it.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
There's a great book, um, it's called the molecule of
more.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
if you're wanting to learn a little bit more about
dopamine, I really just likescratched the surface on this,
but I like the molecule of morebecause it makes it accessible
without dumbing down the scienceand, um, it also feels really
accepting of some of the the thestruggles that people have
(53:49):
around their dopamine spikes andvalleys yeah, the thing you
said about the kids and the andmotivating, like giving them the
star or just like talking about, oh, they naturally love doing
art before they got that endreward as the thing to focus on,
and I think about that so muchand like how I was basically
(54:13):
deconditioned to love art byjust giving me the gold star or
not at the end, you know, andhow hard it is to now motivate
myself to do those things that Idid really love to do naturally
, and it is confusing to mybrain as to like what happened.
Why don't I move towards thosethings in the same way anymore?
(54:34):
And so it's.
That's again just very helpful,so I will definitely check out
more.
You said what is the moleculeof more?
The molecule of more.
Okay, thank you all right.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Thanks, tamra, and any other thoughts from from the
rest of the crew?
If not?
I'm really happy that we got toconnect.
I'm sorry about the technicaldifficulties.
I'm glad that we all found ourway here and we'll see you soon.
We'll hang out on Instagram orfind me on the podcast.
(55:10):
Thanks everyone.
There we go.
Hi, natalia, it's good to seeyou.
Okay, so a little bit of anintro into what we're going to
get into today.
I created this specifically forfolks who are in the spiritual
entrepreneurship world, and ifyou've ever felt ungrounded
(00:21):
while launching an offer to yourcommunity, this is the perfect
place for you.
We're going to be talking a lotabout dopamine, which is a
molecule that's responsible formotivation and drive and desire
and pleasure, and I want to talkabout how this little molecule
affects so much, about how wefeel and take action as
(00:44):
spiritual entrepreneurs,particularly as we're launching
an offer to our community.
And just as like a little sweet,little snippet, dopamine is
what turns on when you have adesire and a craving to do
something.
It's also that thing that helpsyou get off of your couch to go
do that thing.
It's also that thing that helpsyou get off of your couch to go
(01:06):
do that thing.
And when you actually get thatthing in your hands, you also
get a little spike of dopamine,and so that thing could be a
pint of ice cream, a newromantic partner, a drug, it
could be scrolling on Instagram,a new puppy or new clients,
which is what we're going totalk about here today puppy or
new clients, which is what we'regoing to talk about here today.
(01:27):
So full disclosure.
I felt inspired to have thisconversation with y'all because
I'm in the middle of launchingBusiness Alchemist Mentorship
right now, and dopamine feelsvery much present.
If you're like me, launchingcan feel incredibly ungrounding
and that's why I want to talkabout this, because I look
around at social media and Ilook at how other coaches are
talking about launching stuffand I see them putting on this
(01:49):
like facade of confidence andgroundedness and excitement
while they're launching and theyleave all this uncertainty and
fear out of what it is that theyshow us.
And you know that's not whatI'm about, and so we're going to
talk about it from a differentperspective.
So, as I sat with my own fearsand uncertainty, I could feel
(02:12):
dopamine taking up space in myown body.
It was taking up space in a waythat historically has felt
incredibly familiar.
So I dust off some notes fromschool, I reread and some and
relisten to some material andsome research about dopamine and
that is finally helped me justtake this like nice big exhale
(02:38):
about launching, becauseeverything that I've been
feeling for the last severalweeks during this launch.
Everything that I felt aboutevery other launch that I've
done is totally understandable.
It's totally understandablethat I am a little bit more
activated right now, that I'mfeeling worried, that it's a
(02:59):
little bit harder to sleep, thatI'm scrolling Instagram more,
that I'm craving a bit of junkfood, that I'm living a little
bit less presently, a little bitmore in the future.
All this is understandable andthe why is completely explained
by this tiny littleneuromodulator called dopamine.
And now that I understand it,it's my responsibility to find
(03:22):
ways on how I can support myselfthrough this launch.
And that's really what I want totalk about with you all.
I want to share the biology ofdopamine and if biology scares
you a little bit, don't worry.
You don't need to have ahistory in like cell biology or
understand that.
I'm going to really simplifythings for us and I also want to
talk about how it shows up inthe life of a spiritual
(03:44):
entrepreneur.
And I also want to talk abouthow it shows up in the life of a
spiritual entrepreneur,particularly during a launch,
when you're seeking clients,that dopamine is all about
seeking and getting.
And I also want to sharetangible tools on how to work
with dopamine instead of denyingit, suppressing it or letting
it control your life.
So, by framing it, by framingall this information in the
(04:06):
context of this real worldexample of launching, it's going
to give us a opportunity tointroduce some tools and
frameworks that you can use.
But even if I'm using thisexample of a launch, my hope is
that you feel empowered to usethis example and then you apply
it to relationships, to personalgoals and really so much other
(04:28):
stuff in your life that involvesaround seeking and receiving
and getting.
So, um, I'm getting into thepractice of like re-saying.
I guess we're in the middle ofa rebrand, and so I've, I've
like changed how I introducemyself.
So I'm, I'm putting myself intothe practice of that, and so,
(04:50):
in this little safe, cozycontainer here that's then going
to go out into the podcast, Ijust want to like say that out
loud Hi, I am Kat Hosuli.
There's some new faces here.
There are some familiar faceshere, some folks who have been
through BAM already, and so Ifeel like I'm in this like
perfect little, like cozy space.
(05:12):
I am an emotional alchemy coach,I'm also a spiritual business
mentor and I'm the host of theEmotional Alchemy Podcast, and I
love playing in the space wherescience and spirituality
converge, because this is wherewe get to experience emotional
alchemy.
So in my work, I educate spaceholders about somatic physiology
(05:32):
and environmental biology sothat they can deepen their
practice of listening andpresencing, which ultimately
helps them expand their capacityto hold space for other people
them expand their capacity tohold space for other people.
As a spiritual business mentor,I guide soulful entrepreneurs
to approach their business as aspiritual practice, and the work
(05:58):
bridges the emotional landscapewith practical tools which
allow them to cultivatebusinesses that are rooted in
conscious values, in relationalmarketing and in purposeful
service values in relationalmarketing and in purposeful
service.
So today I tried to do anexperiment.
I tried to go on YouTube liveand I often think about business
as a series of experiments andit didn't work out so well.
The audio didn't pick up, andso now we're here in Zoom and I
(06:19):
get to play this out in realtime with you guys, and so
thanks for being flexible Forthose of you who are listening
to this on the podcast, I'mreally glad that you're here and
you get to hear the recordedversion of it, because the first
10 minutes of our talk was metrying to figure out audio.
So let's talk about dopamine.
(06:42):
The first thing I'm going to dois let's bring this into
somatics, right?
So I'm going to invite you allto place your hands somewhere on
your body Doesn't matter where,just somewhere on your body and
I'm just going to ask you tosink into what that feels like
(07:05):
in your body to have your handson your body.
Are you able to feel your body?
How's your breath?
Maybe?
Just do a quick little glancedown at your hands.
What's within your immediatevisual field?
What are the sensations thatcome up when you look down?
(07:26):
What are some of the texturesthat you can feel beneath your
hands?
For me, I sometimes have to likeclose my eyes to shift into the
here and now, and that shiftinto the here and now, when the
only thing that matters iswhat's right in front of us,
(07:47):
when the to-do list disappearsand sensation is the only thing
that exists.
This is all being modulated bywhat is being classified as H
and N neurotransmittersneurotransmitters, the HNN
neurotransmitters.
What's included in thatumbrella are oxytocin, serotonin
(08:22):
, endorphins, and endorphins arethe body's version of morphine.
We have also gotendocannabinoids, which is the
body's version of cannabis, andwhat these neurotransmitters do
is they allow us to experienceand savor and enjoy what's in
front of us, or they can help usfight or flight our way out of
a sticky situation.
Our way out of a stickysituation.
(08:53):
So now, by contrast, I want youto focus on something that is
just outside of your reach, likefocus on an object that's just
outside of your reach.
It could be something that'sjust like sitting on your desk,
it could be a coffee mug, youknow whatever is just kind of
like outside of your reach, likeyou have to go out and get it
and now go, actually like touchthat thing.
(09:14):
Just that simple act of youfocusing on an object that's
outside of your reach andtouching it meant that your body
and your mind had to shift fromthe HNN neurotransmitters and
shift into a neuromodulatorcalled dopamine.
(09:35):
So dopamine makes us desirewhat you don't yet have.
It drives you to seek newthings.
It rewards you when you obey it.
It punishes you when you don'tachieve it.
It loves novelty.
It inspires our creativity.
It is why we become addicted tosubstances and activities.
(09:59):
It fuels our dreams and itgives us the gas to accomplish
them.
So I am a nervous system nerd.
I view the world through thelens of the sympathetic and the
parasympathetic branches of ourbodies, and I've been doing that
for over a decade.
It's how I teach emotionalalchemy, it's how I teach
spiritual business and it's aframework that I, quite frankly,
(10:21):
I can't shut that off.
I view everything in thecontext of how threatened or
safe does your nervous systemfeel in different situations?
And to me, the nervous systemgives us that context of safety,
but it doesn't completelyexplain how we behave sometimes.
(10:41):
Why do some people cheat ontheir partners?
Where do addictions come from?
Why do some people thrive asentrepreneurs while others
struggle at every turn?
Why does it seem like we arechronically unsatisfied, even
though most of us no longer haveto worry about our literal
survival?
Why do we compare ourselves toothers?
Understanding dopamine bringsin color to what has felt like a
(11:06):
black and white painting, andI'm so glad that I get to share
a snippet of that with you today.
So what is dopamine?
Dopamine is a neuromodulator,and what that means is that it
is a molecule that communicatesfrom the brain to many, many
(11:27):
different types of tissues andsystems in the body.
At the same time, you'll oftenhear dopamine being referred to
as a neurotransmitter, but itdoesn't fully capture its full
functionality.
Andrew Huberman is a podcasterand he talks about dopamine
quite a bit in his podcast andI'm going to use his analogy of
how he explains the differencebetween neurotransmitters and
(11:50):
neuromodulators.
Just as a note, he has a reallygreat podcast episode that's
called controlling your dopaminefor motivation, focus and
satisfaction.
That's worth listening to.
So neurotransmitters imaginethat you're at a concert and
you're sitting next to yourbuddy.
Neurotransmitters are like thetwo people trying to talk to
(12:10):
each other in that concert.
It's like a very intimate sortof situation.
It's a very you know,bi-directional, I guess sort of
a situation.
Neuromodulators are like theband, so the band is the beat
that gets everyone in the crowdto dance in this like
(12:30):
coordinated, organic way, andthat is what dopamine is.
It's like the band.
So this is why dopamine is sucha strong influencer.
It affects us on the physical,the emotional and the nervous
system level.
It can invoke responses likehow fast our heart rate is
moving, involved in people inhere.
(12:56):
It's involved in our cravingfor burritos and it is also the
driver for how we go get thatburrito.
Dopamine works in a nervoussystem to say let's turn on this
set of neural circuits.
In particular, dopamine has twodifferent pathways that it
works through, and we cansimplistically call these the
(13:18):
desire circuit and the controlcircuit.
And in today's conversation,we're going to speak about the
desire circuit because it's themost relevant to our life and
experiences as spiritualentrepreneurs, and I also don't
want to turn this into like asix hour lecture.
I have no idea how long this isgoing to be, by the way.
So, yeah, so, as a reminder,dopamine is all about desire,
(13:44):
motivation, craving and drive.
So why would this be importantto our biology?
Dopamine is strongly tied toour survival, not just as humans
, but as animals that seekresources outside of ourselves.
So dopamine is the universalmolecule that is about foraging
(14:04):
and seeking.
So even earthworms havedopamine because they have to go
outside of their own bodies togo find food.
Dopamine has everything to dowith how motivated you are, how
connected you are to yourdesires and your capacity to
push through effort.
Now I say forage, which intoday's terms, kind of sounds
(14:26):
very cozy Instagram, cottagecore, homesteadcore but imagine that
you lived in the Paleolithicera when our ancestors were
surviving off of what they couldjust forage, not what they
could find in a grocery store.
So for our ancestors, going andlooking for something was a
dangerous endeavor.
So to have the drive to gooutside of what is known and
(14:49):
safe, our ancestors needed astrong boost of dopamine to give
them the oomph that's needed tomove outside of comfort and
safety and into the world ofresources.
So, in short, dopamine is themolecule that says, hey, you
need to go find food, you needto seek social connection, you
(15:09):
need to find shelter and youneed to reproduce.
And because it is also aprecursor to epinephrine, that's
another way to say adrenalineit also helps create the action
to get us to those resources.
It also helps create the actionto get us to those resources.
Now, another thing to keep inmind about dopamine is that we
just felt the contrast betweendopamine and HNN
(15:32):
neurotransmitters, right?
These two systems work incounterbalance to each other.
So dopamine paints this rosypicture of the future, whereas
HNN neurotransmitters help usreally enjoy something for what
it is, not what it can become.
So when dopamine is low, hnnsare high and vice versa.
(15:53):
And, like biologically, thismakes sense, right?
So dopamine tells us to crave,to look to pursue things outside
of ourselves, to go look forresources and satisfaction, to
pursue things outside ofourselves, to go look for
resources and satisfaction.
It also says let's create someaction to go get that.
And so then you get a spike ofdopamine right as you're
(16:13):
fantasizing about something thatyou're about to pursue, and
then also when you get anunexpected reward while you're
in that pursuit.
H&n's, on the other hand, saysI'm enjoying what's right here
right now, I'm not focused onthis thing, this experience
being different, and I'm notfocused on what it can become,
(16:33):
so there's really no reason forme to move.
I can just stay here and I'mpretty happy.
Now, the most popular way thatI've heard dopamine spoken of is
when we talk about social mediaas a dopamine hit.
It is used to describe the whybehind addictive behaviors,
which all sounds a bit negative,but that's only because we're
(16:55):
describing what happens whendopamine is not balanced.
Dopamine, when it isfunctioning how it's intended,
is what drives the evolution ofour lives.
It is functioning how it'sintended is what drives the
evolution of our lives.
The problem is that with humandevelopment and technology,
there is no shortage of whatcaptures our attention for
desire and longing.
So, as a result, we developimbalances in dopamine.
(17:19):
So I just want to pause thereand just check in with the chat
and see if there's any questions.
Just about dopamine as aneuromodulator.
Just to begin there, you good,okay, all right.
So let's talk about howdopamine works.
(17:41):
Essentially, we have a baselineof dopamine that's circulating
in our systems all the time, andI'm going to walk us through a
real world situation to track,like how and when dopamine is
released.
So let's say you're craving aburrito because you haven't had
one in a while.
Dopamine's job is to get yourbutt off the couch so that you
(18:03):
can get that dopamine spike,which then converts to
epinephrine or adrenaline, andthen that creates the action so
you can go get that burrito.
So for nervous system nerds,yes, dopamine triggers that
sympathetic arousal response.
So let's say you get to yourfavorite taqueria and then the
server that you've got a crushon is working, and then they
(18:25):
sneak you a surprise side ofguacamole.
As you're eating your burrito,you're fantasizing about your
crush asking you out, and sothen you get a spike of dopamine
there.
You get another spike indopamine from how amazing that
burrito is, and then, alsobecause there was an unexpected
reward of sorry, jenna, I gotdistracted by your comment your
(18:50):
now official favorite way totalk about dopamine is burrito
based.
Yeah, same here.
There's a reason why I pickedburritos because they're amazing
.
So you're fantasizing aboutyour crush.
You get that dopamine spikefrom eating the burrito, from
fantasizing about your crush andthen also from getting that
(19:12):
unexpected side of guacamole.
But now you've eaten theburrito and you're home alone
again.
You're crushed in, ask you outand your dopamine levels go down
.
They don't go down just tobaseline, but they go actually
below baseline.
So the bigger the dopaminespike, the lower the Valley.
(19:33):
So in other words, dopaminespikes with one, the
anticipation and possibility ofa burrito.
Two, when you are enjoying theburrito.
Three, when you receive anunexpected surprise in this case
it's guacamole while you'repursuing that burrito.
And then four, with theanticipation and possibility of
(19:54):
your crush asking you out.
So the weird thing aboutdopamine is that that's not
consistent.
Let's say you eat a burritoevery day for a month Over time
because you've come to expectthis burrito.
It now the novelty that wearsoff and that dopamine spike
becomes associated, that thedopamine spike that you
(20:16):
associate with enjoyment asyou're like eating that burrito,
that no longer happens.
So they've tested this on ratsin laboratories.
So first they track dopaminelevels in rats who are given a
treat and they get a dopaminespike.
And then they turned on a lightthat was associated with the
treat and what they found isthat the rats got a dopamine
(20:38):
spike with both the light andthe treat, but then, over time
and repeated cycles of lightsand treats, they no longer got a
spike with the treat.
They only got the spike whenthe light came on.
So this cyclical nature ofdopamine is important.
Your experience of motivationand drive is related to the
(20:59):
fluctuations in relationship toyour recent levels of dopamine.
Now, dopamine is a bit of aGoldilocks neuromodulator,
meaning that you don't want yourbaseline to be too high or too
low, and your dopamine baselineis highly influenced by your
actions.
So, in particular, if you liveyour life from a place where you
(21:21):
are constantly seeking, thatbaseline ratchets up and up and
up, which then results in youfeeling underwhelmed from things
that normally brought you joy.
But if that baseline ofdopamine is set high, the spike
has to be that much higher andwhen dopamine spikes that high,
it's going to be a valley.
You're going to encounter avalley on the other side of that
(21:43):
.
That's really low, which is whyso many people experience like
a hangover after peakexperiences.
So in extreme cases.
I don't know if you can see thisthread here, but dopamine
physiology is the explanation ofaddiction.
It's not necessarily that thesubstance or the activity that
(22:04):
they're seeking.
It's actually the dopaminespike that they're trying to get
to.
The irony with addiction isthat the pleasure loses the
sparkle over time, just likethat burrito that you ate for a
month straight.
So dopamine explains why, whenyou repeatedly engage in
something that you enjoy, yourthreshold for that enjoyment
(22:25):
goes up and up and up, andaddiction is really a narrowing
of the things that bring youpleasure.
Over time and repetitions ofthe addictive behavior or
substance, what we do is wedevelop a resistance, and this
is another way of saying thatthe dopamine baseline has
ratcheted up to the point thatthere needs to be more and more
(22:45):
stimulation to get that dopaminespike that these people are
seeking.
You also have to consider thedopamine valley and what that
experience is like.
I have a history of alcoholismand when I think back to that
time it got to the point that Iwasn't drinking for that
dopamine spike.
I was drinking to avoid thedopamine valley, and a hangover
(23:07):
doesn't quite adequatelydescribe what it felt like after
a night of partying anddrinking, because it doesn't
explain the emotional low thatcomes from it as well.
It's easier to stay at that lowlevel of drunkenness to avoid
the crash of the dopamine valley.
So when I listened to theHuberman podcast, he talks about
(23:30):
different substances andactivities and in relationship
to like, how far above thebaseline it spikes you.
So chocolate spikes one and ahalf times above baseline.
It's pretty transient.
It only lasts for a few minutesto a few seconds.
Sex the pursuit of and the actof sex spikes you two times over
(23:53):
baseline.
Nicotine, very, veryshort-lived two and a half times
above baseline.
Cocaine, also two and a halftimes over baseline.
And amphetamine is 10 timesover baseline.
So based on this, we can nowsee why amphetamine is so
addictive compared to, let's say, chocolate.
It's because that spike is sohigh, but also that
(24:17):
corresponding value is alsoreally, really low.
So folks who get addicted toamphetamines are chasing the
high but also trying to avoidthe low.
So now that we've got a sense ofhow dopamine works, let's talk
about how it shows up during anoffer launch, because even
subtle fluctuations in dopamineaffect how we feel about life.
(24:37):
So know that when you're goinginto a launch, you're
voluntarily entering into amoment in your entrepreneurial
life that's inherently going tohave some ungrounding
fluctuations in dopamine.
Instead of making somethingwrong about this or wrong about
us or glossing it over, I wantto help us understand what's
(25:00):
going on so that we can acceptwhat we can and cannot change,
and give us some ideas to helpus feel grounded Again.
I just want to like check inand see if there's any thoughts,
comments, questions, before Imove into talking about launches
, the podcast, andrew Huberman,huberman Lab Podcast, any other
(25:32):
questions?
We're good, perfect, so let'stalk about launching.
Think about what a launch is.
You are envisioning who you'dlike to work with.
You're hoping to reach a goalof how much money you'd like to
make or how many people you'dlike to have in your container.
You're tapping into why you dowhat you do so that you could
(25:56):
talk about it in your marketing.
So it's not a burrito, but youcan see how craving, desire,
motivation and drive are all anatural and a normal part of
launching.
Now it's easier to think abouta burrito as a resource that you
go outside of your body to goget, but a launch brings in
money, which is also animportant resource when we live
(26:18):
in capitalism.
I coincidentally watched a reelon Instagram yesterday.
I don't know how these reelsend up on my like suggested feed
, but it was titled a day in thelife of a rich Dubai housewife
and it showed this perfectlycoiffed woman going through her
day eating all these extravagantmeals all day long, ordering
(26:42):
multiple entrees because shecouldn't decide what she wanted.
She was drinking cocktails thatwere laced with 24 karat gold.
She's getting her hair and hernails done, getting spa
treatments, massages.
She accidentally spent $2,000at Lululemon accidentally spent
(27:02):
$2,000 at Lululemon.
Like you get the picture right.
I couldn't help but view thisreel through the lens of her
dopamine levels, because I waspreparing for this talk.
So dopamine spikes are naturaland they're an important part of
how we move and pursue things.
However, when we layerdopaminergic activities, it
changes what would be a novelexperience into a normal one,
(27:25):
and what that means is that wehave to then ramp up experiences
in the pursuit of a dopaminespike.
So it's why this Dubaihousewife has to layer multiple
experiences into her day to feelfulfilled.
Now, my own intention when itcomes to how I stay balanced
with dopamine is to try to keepmy day-to-day experiences as a
(27:47):
wave, as it fluctuates betweendopamine and HNN
neurotransmitters.
Now we know that we are goingto flow up and down, but we can
influence how smooth that flowis through our actions and our
mindset.
So, knowing that every clientwho signs on I'm going to have a
dopamine peak like that's justa biological process, that's
(28:08):
going to happen, and then I'malso going to have a
corresponding dopamine valley.
So that means that I'm going tobe aware of how my body
experiences dopamine.
In other words, I want thelaunch to be the dopaminergic
experience that it is.
I don't want to layer inoptional dopamine which is going
to raise my baseline, with thatcorresponding crash that lowers
(28:30):
it so.
So when I'm in the middle of alaunch, I am being very
disciplined about eating wholenourishing foods that stabilize
my blood sugar.
I don't drink alcohol veryoften these days, but I'm not
drinking right now.
I'm being really mindful thatthe sugar that I eat is from
fruit and I know that eatingprocessed food layers dopamine.
(28:54):
So I make it a point to not eatsnacks that are coming from a
box or a bag during these times.
And I don't abstain fromcaffeine because you can pry my
coffee out of my cold dead hands, but I do limit it.
I limit it to one cup of coffeeor chai a day.
(29:20):
So another way that we layerdopamine is the phone, and the
phone is a tricky thing becauseit's not just this like singular
thing.
Right, it's a way to listen tomusic, it's a way to listen to
podcasts, it's a way to stayconnected to your friends by
calling or texting them, it's away to share your latte art with
the world.
There's games, there's shopping.
All that is dopamine.
Because the phone is a noveltymachine.
I know that I've personallyping-ponged between different
(29:42):
apps while I lose complete trackof time, and this is because
the phone layers a bunch ofdifferent ways to access
dopamine, and so, of course,it's really hard to stay
grounded after that.
So during a launch, I'mlimiting my phone use.
In fact, I have no phone dayson the days that my husband and
I have off together.
(30:03):
So I'll check in on my clientmessages in the morning and in
the evening and I'll check inwith my friends in those times,
because layering all thesedopamine triggering sources
causes that crash afterwards.
It undermines longer termmotivation and drive To bring
(30:25):
more pleasure to the things inmy life that I really want to
enjoy.
I have to choose to not layer,and thanks Francisco, he just
shared a comment that says wow,that explains a lot.
I've been burnt out from thedopamine valley before.
I think we all have right.
So when I know that my dopaminespikes can't be avoided, the
(30:48):
way that I replenish the pool ofdopamine is to limit the
optional dopaminergic behaviorsthat I engage in, that I choose
to engage in Just as, like alittle sidebar, adhd is often
associated with this lowerdopamine baseline, which is why
there are such extremefluctuations of not being able
to focus and stay on task.
(31:09):
With these moments ofhyper-focus, what we're seeing
in ADHD is extreme spikes andvalleys of dopamine.
Okay, and so remember how I wassharing that the extent to how
low the valley is isproportional to how high the
peak is.
This becomes especiallyrelevant during a successful
(31:33):
launch.
Marketing coaches are all aboutthat 10K month.
So I'm going to work with thatexample.
Work with that example.
If you are used to making around10K per month already, your
dopamine during a launch andlet's say you make 10K during a
(31:55):
launch your dopamine is going tospike a little bit and then
it's going to dip a little bitbelow baseline, so you might not
even feel the valley.
In this case, however, let'ssay it's your first time making
10K.
You never thought you'd makethis much money in your business
.
You never thought you'd makethis much money in your business
(32:20):
.
So that subsequent valley, frommaking about 3 to 4k regularly
and then jumping up to 10k, andas soon as that happened I fell
straight into that dopaminevalley.
I couldn't explain it, but Ihad so much anxiety about that
first successful launch.
Meanwhile, everyone in my groupcoaching program was so excited
(32:40):
for me, even though I washaving insomnia and my heart
palpitations were coming back.
No one normalized this excitedfor me, even though I was having
insomnia and my heartpalpitations were coming back.
No one normalized thisexperience for me because
everyone thinks about that peakexperience and how like exciting
that high is.
And then we mask that dopaminevalley because it seems shameful
that we'd be upset whensomething joyful happened to us.
(33:02):
Dopamine is the marker ofanticipation and possibility.
It idealizes the unknown, andso once that unknown is known,
its job is done.
So, particularly if theaccomplishment took a lot of
effort, that valley is going todrop, it's going to bottom out.
So remember, in that burritoexample example how you were
(33:23):
fantasizing about your crush.
This is what happens when thedopamine rush of the chase dies
down and they actually do askyou out, but it's not grounded
with h and n molecules likeserotonin and oxytocin.
So if you don't make that shiftfrom dopamine to serotonin and
oxytocin, you're going to getthat value.
So frog that first 10K month.
(33:50):
I don't know where I spent themoney, how I spent the money,
but I spent 10K that month.
When I frame my behavior in thecontext of understanding
dopamine, the dopamine value wasso unbearable that I shopped to
get my baseline back up.
Shopping is a dopaminergicactivity, right?
It's no different to what I wasdoing when I was day drinking
(34:12):
to avoid the hangover.
So this explains why after peakexperiences, we experience a
low.
If you've ever experienced avulnerability hangover after you
finished up a presentation thatyou worked really hard on or
you felt the post-vacation bluesor even postpartum depression,
this is happening because yourdopamine baseline shifted really
(34:34):
, really dramatically outside ofyour window of tolerance.
Now I want to share how I workwith the cycles of dopamine in
practical ways that help me feelbalanced.
The first is that I allowmyself to rest after peak
dopamine experiences, becausethese experiences are part of
(34:54):
the joy and the expression oflife.
I don't want to shield myselffrom joy.
I don't want to shield otherpeople from joy because they're
afraid of that valley.
That's not how we have rich andexciting lives.
But we should be aware of howyour body is going to process
that experience.
What we experience as adopamine valley crash is how the
(35:17):
body is communicating that youneed to rest and slow down and
integrate that experience.
We are all meant to go throughyin states, particularly after
high yang states.
We have depression after thesepeak states because capitalism
tells us that we need to keepmoving and get going towards new
goals without integration.
(35:37):
So I rest and I integrate and Igive my body full permission to
slow down for a moment withoutcreating a new goal.
This is also the reason why Ihave long launches.
Right now I am halfway throughlaunching Business Outcomes
Mentorship.
It is a two-month launch and itis two months on purpose and I
(36:00):
find that this pace serves meand my clients really well.
And I find that this paceserves me and my clients really
well, on one hand, when I givemy potential clients a long
period to consider the program,I know that they my
(36:21):
communication with attractionenergy, by showing up
unapologetically as myself, sothat my potential clients can
feel the serotonin pull anddecide if this is aligned for
them or not.
My long launches give themspace to move through the
fantasy of their dopamine spikeand say yes, based on alignment
(36:43):
and based on regulation.
Spike and say yes, based onalignment and based on
regulation.
A long launch also allows me tonot have a layered,
concentrated dopamine spikebecause the enrollments don't
come in all at once.
Right now I have six folks whoare signed up for BAM, with
about eight more who havemessaged me saying that they're
seriously considering it.
If I had all 14 people sign upwithin a week, that dopamine
(37:04):
spike would have me completelyspinning.
This way I get to savor eachenrollment with gratitude, and
gratitude is another way that Iwork.
Gratitude is another tool thatI work with to smooth out those
dopamine spikes.
Part of the intoxicating smellof dopamine comes from reaching
(37:26):
the end result.
This is called an extrinsicexperience, meaning that the
catalyst for the dopamine spikecomes from something outside of
yourself.
So when I lean into thefriction of a launch and I find
both intangible, intangiblelayers to celebrate within the
launch itself, I am creatingsmall intrinsic which is within
(37:48):
myself intrinsic dopamine spikes.
So in the BAM private slackgroup we have a channel called
celebrations where we do justthis.
So in this particular launchI'm celebrating that I was able
to successfully receive tons offeedback from BAM alumni so that
I can continue to improve how Ideliver BAM.
I am also celebrating that Ifigured out that I love teaching
(38:14):
live and it's giving me lots ofopportunities to do that.
And when I'm just going topause and just take a look at
the comment here, tamara saysthe two months is genius and how
you do it and balance and it'sso kind to everyone in the
process.
Yeah, I like kindness.
(38:35):
I like kindness in in launching.
Yeah, so when somebody signs upfor BAM, it's just part of the
current and the wave of thelaunch.
It's not an experience thatspikes and then valleys me into
disassociation.
So I recognize that this soundsa little bit counter to what I
just shared about layeringoptional dopamine spikes.
(38:57):
But how gratitude is differentfrom me scrolling on my phone is
that it brings in the HNNmolecules, which allows me to
stay present through anexperience.
I want to have a long-termrelationship with my business
and long-term relationships arenot built on dopamine.
I had a pivotal moment that Ishared on episode 111 of my
(39:22):
podcast, where I realized that Ihad been holding my business at
arm's length and it took mybusiness grinding to a halt for
me to pay attention and toactually decide that I want to
be in a long-termserotonin-based relationship
with my business.
So by recruiting the HNNmolecules during a launch these
are largely molecules that areinvolved in long-term bonding it
(39:45):
is reinforcing my intentionthat everything is relational.
My business and I are in along-term committed relationship
so I actively find ways toactivate molecules like
serotonin and oxytocin toreinforce that bond.
The lovely side effect of thisis that when clients choose to
work with me, they get to alsoexperience the trust and the
security that's folded into myrelationship with my business.
(40:09):
I like to think of it as goingand having dinner with my best
friend, christina and herpartner John, because they have
a secure relationship.
I can feel the lightness andthe love that's in the room.
It's comfortable to be aroundin the room.
It's comfortable to be aroundtheir love isn't about me, but I
definitely get to experiencethe side effect of being in the
presence of a couple that trulyloves and respects each other
(40:30):
and they have fun together.
It makes it easy for me to beawash in my own HNN molecules
when I'm with them.
In contrast, I've had dinnerswith couples who have had a big
rift in their relationship.
Being a sensitive person, evenwithout them sharing what's
going on, I can feel thattension in the air and it forces
me to think about the future.
(40:51):
I can't stay in the presentmoment when I'm around people
like that.
So I'm thinking what do I needto say to make this a little bit
more comfortable?
How do I iron out this wrinklehere?
How do I get out of here, right?
So I definitely want my clientsto come into a space.
That's a lot more like havingdinner with Christina and John,
and it's my own responsibilityto create that kind of
(41:13):
relationship between me and mybusiness to invite my clients
into.
Another thing that I do during alaunch is exercise the muscle
of intrinsic rewards.
During a launch is exercise themuscle of intrinsic rewards.
There was a Stanford study donewith children.
Don't worry, it's not a scarystudy, even though they involve
kids.
They took a group of young kidswho were already artistically
(41:36):
inclined, meaning they didn'tneed someone to tell them to do
art.
They were just really excitedto do art.
The act of creating art was thereward itself for them.
All the study did was attach areward to the art a gold star
for their effort.
What they found was that thereward spiked their dopamine,
(41:59):
which led to a valley whichdrops their baseline, and now
they are less likely to feelmotivated to create art.
Simply adding a reward tosomething that they already love
doing reduced their desire toengage with art.
So when we focus on the reward,we delay the spike in dopamine
(42:20):
so that there's less pleasure inthe effort and in the doing.
If you push for the end goalthat comes later, you enjoy that
process less, you make it morepainful, you become less
efficient at it and youundermine your ability to
continue to engage in it in thefuture.
So this all comes down to thewhy behind a launch,
(42:42):
particularly when it comes tomarketing materials.
If everything that I create inmy marketing is simply about
getting the reward of a fullroster of clients at the end,
I'm doing the same thing thatthe researchers did to those
artistic kits.
Instead, I try to amplifyeffort through intrinsic rewards
by focusing on the strivingitself as the reward, by
(43:04):
creating content that I want tonerd out about and talk about.
Anyway, this talk is one ofthose things.
I spent the last week just like,deeply immersed in researching
dopamine and, oh my gosh, mynerdy little heart was so happy.
And I also do this by honoringthe friction, the struggle of
(43:24):
launching.
I remind myself that I havechoice in this effort.
In other words, I smooth outthe spikes before I engage in
the launch and I smooth out thedopamine spikes after the launch
and I learn to create waves ofdopamine through the actual
effort itself.
Francisco, I'm just going toread out your comment out loud
(43:46):
here navigating from wildsurfing waves to pleasant
lake-like waters Exactly, that'sexactly the visual that I had
as well.
Yeah, so another thing aboutdopamine is that dopamine loves
fantasy.
Dopamine is the molecule ofobsessive yearning.
So another way that I staygrounded is I stay rooted in
(44:08):
reality, not in fantasy, and Idefinitely need help with this
one.
When I'm in the middle of alunch, dopamine is not rational.
It swings wildly from I'm goingto have a hundred people sign
up for BAM to no one's going tosign up for BAM at all.
So I need to do lots moremarketing.
It's so helpful that I haveAndre, who's my business partner
(44:29):
, who's been with me from thevery beginning, and he reminds
me all the time, sometimes on adaily basis.
We've been here before.
We have X amount of signupsright now, so like just chill
out.
It's also really helpful whenmy husband reminds me that he
has a job as well.
So the launch isn't going to bethe determining factor of us
being able to pay our mortgageor put food on the table or feed
(44:51):
my horses.
So when dopamine tries to takeover, co-regulation is the
counterbalance, because itgrounds the fantasy both the
negative and the positive inreality.
So another thing that I thinkis really important during a
launch is to ask for support.
Ask for help, and then I try mybest and I stay unattached to
(45:15):
the results.
Dopamine helps us accomplishthings, but dopamine can have a
bit of a critical voice.
Dopamine says you didn't makeas much as you did in the last
launch and this somehow feelslike a failure.
Capitalism feeds into this.
The expectation in a businessis that each year you need to
(45:37):
make more than the last year,and then more the following year
, and up and up and up into thislinear growth land.
Hnn help us appreciate thingswhen we get them.
Dopamine is focused on alwaysgetting more, acquiring more
Hunger and satiation isexperienced in the here and now.
(45:58):
Now, of course, I go into eachlaunch with a number of clients
in mind that I'd like to enroll,but in the assessment after a
launch, I ask myself abouthunger and satiation.
The number of students I enrollis not a marker of my success
or of my failure.
It is information.
If I'm still hungry after alaunch, I have to think okay, so
(46:22):
is there something that I needto do differently next time?
What kind of questions do Ineed to be okay so?
Is there something that I needto do differently next time?
What kind of questions do Ineed to be answering for my
future clients?
How can I set myself up betternext time?
How many one-on-one clients doI need to open up to make sure
that the business continues torun smoothly for the rest of the
year?
If I am satiated, I celebrateand I also ask myself okay, so
(46:42):
what worked this time?
What can I recreate for thenext launch?
Do I need to reduce myone-on-one client spot so that I
have the capacity to deliverthe care that I really want to
to this group?
That feels really big?
Honestly, at the end of the day, what I've learned is that
being with the waves of dopaminehas helped me build resilience.
(47:04):
By knowing what dopamine feelslike in my body, I can create
choices around how I want toengage with dopaminergic
activities, instead of being aslave to the whims of chasing
dopamine spikes and avoidingdopamine valleys.
So sit with all this for amoment Again.
I want to just like open up thespace for questions or comments
(47:27):
.
How are we doing here?
I just threw so muchinformation at you guys.
We're doing okay, Okay, solet's sit with all this.
How does gaining anunderstanding of dopamine land
(47:50):
in your body?
Does it fill in a little bit ofcolor on your spiritual
entrepreneurship journey?
Now, if you've been in my space, you know that I'm not
interested in selling you thisstory that entrepreneurship is
easy and that anyone can do it.
If you've been in this worldfor even a few months as an
(48:11):
entrepreneur, you know that thisis not true.
It's really hard.
And spiritual entrepreneurshipis hard because we are
disentangling threads of traumaand years of misunderstanding.
We're restructuring whatcommunity support looks like and
feels like.
We're dismantling extractivebusiness practices and choosing
something that, honestly,because we're sort of like
(48:34):
pioneers on this forefront oftrying to do business in
trauma-informed ways.
It doesn't always feel like ithas form, and this work is
actually meant to be hard.
It's part of the reason why itfeels so fulfilling, and it's
not for everybody.
Now, if I leverage dopamine inmy marketing, I know that I'd
(48:54):
like I'd get more enrollments,but what I would do is I would
attract entrepreneurs who wantto learn how to leverage
dopamine in their own marketing,while also clutching onto this,
this identity of beingtrauma-informed.
I'd be churning out studentswho are wolves walking around in
sheep's clothing, and I'm notinterested in that.
Not only that I.
(49:16):
It would repel the kind offolks that I know who would find
belonging in the BAM community.
We are a small army of witchy,sensitive, nerdy, feral weirdos.
We've got Tamara in here andshe has coined the term feral
auntie energy, and that's whatBAM is made up of, and we all
(49:45):
see business as a spiritualpractice, and so if this
conversation wakes up a sense ofcuriosity on how you would like
to do business differently,more relationally, um, you can
check out my website, which isbusinessalchemistmentorshipcom.
If it's not the right time orthe right container for you, no
worries, I've got plenty ofpodcast episodes for you to
(50:07):
explore.
Lots of conversations happeningon instagram and yeah, that's
all I got on dopamine and I justwant to flick my eyes over to
the chat and just see um, howwe're doing with all this info.
Tamara says this is big, maturewood dragon, energy and
(50:31):
modeling Love it, yay, yay.
Any other thoughts?
I'm also open to to questionsor are coaching.
If you guys are, are okay withbeing on the podcast.
We're good, okay.
(51:06):
Natalia says loved it.
Kat, so eye-opening.
This helped me find morecompassion and understanding for
myself and my body when I gothrough the valley.
Yeah, I needed to find anexplanation for the valley
myself.
That's why I I into to nerdmode to figure that out.
Tamara, you've got your cameraand you popped open your mic for
(51:34):
a moment.
Did you have anything youwanted to say?
We're good.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Oh, I was just going to tell you it's just so helpful
to oh, I was just going to tellyou it's just so helpful to,
(52:06):
yeah, have all the chemicalneuroscience behind this and the
experiences that are so commonand just being able to, like, as
a neurodivergent person, tounderstand, like, how my brain
is creating more natural peaksand valleys and not having
language or understanding that.
And now I'm like, oh, this makesso much more sense.
I feel like around, um, youknow how potentially other
people might just be able tobrush it off a little bit more
or have a little bit moreinternal lake versus the like
tsunamis of chemicals that Ifeel and that's just kind of a
built-in.
(52:26):
You know, um, like my normalbaseline.
So it's interesting to justfeel the full spectrum of like,
even how we're experiencingsomeone else's uh, like, yeah,
ability to co-regulate or or thedifferences in baselines and
(52:48):
how you need to alter that foryour own best practices of of
really adding in that gratitudeor like saying, all right
afternoon cup of coffee, eventhough you are the greatest part
of my day, maybe I'll do amatcha or something that's a
(53:08):
little bit less.
You know different, a differentcaffeine, I do that, Um, so,
anyway, it's just been reallyhelpful, and I think I'm going
to relist this, probably likesix or seven times, and make my
partner listen to it.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
There's a great book, um, it's called the molecule of
more.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
if you're wanting to learn a little bit more about
dopamine, I really just likescratched the surface on this,
but I like the molecule of morebecause it makes it accessible
without dumbing down the scienceand, um, it also feels really
accepting of some of the the thestruggles that people have
(53:49):
around their dopamine spikes andvalleys yeah, the thing you
said about the kids and the andmotivating, like giving them the
star or just like talking about, oh, they naturally love doing
art before they got that endreward as the thing to focus on,
and I think about that so muchand like how I was basically
(54:13):
deconditioned to love art byjust giving me the gold star or
not at the end, you know, andhow hard it is to now motivate
myself to do those things that Idid really love to do naturally
, and it is confusing to mybrain as to like what happened.
Why don't I move towards thosethings in the same way anymore?
(54:34):
And so it's.
That's again just very helpful,so I will definitely check out
more.
You said what is the moleculeof more?
The molecule of more.
Okay, thank you all right.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Thanks, tamra, and any other thoughts from from the
rest of the crew?
If not?
I'm really happy that we got toconnect.
I'm sorry about the technicaldifficulties.
I'm glad that we all found ourway here and we'll see you soon.
We'll hang out on Instagram orfind me on the podcast.
(55:10):
Thanks everyone.
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