What are the secrets to ensuring a smooth transition back to school for your child? Join us as we unlock the expert insights of Kerry Herbert, a seasoned early childhood educator, who guides us through the essential steps parents can take to support their little ones as they return from holiday breaks. From creating visual routines with photos to practicing daily sequences, we explore the practical strategies that can create a comforting and exciting start for children. Kerry also shares her wisdom on the importance of "kindy clothes" and checking weather and UV ratings to boost confidence on those first days back.
Our conversation takes a deeper look into preparing not just children but entire families for school success. We discuss the power of familiarization through school environment booklets and how practice days can promote independence in children. As parents, maintaining composure is key, and we address the emotional journey adults experience during this milestone. Kerry and I offer encouragement for parents to plan enjoyable activities for themselves, recognizing this transition as a significant life stage. We also delve into how parents' own school experiences can shape their reactions and the role of empathetic teachers in supporting families during this time.
For families with children facing sensory and developmental challenges, adapting educational and therapeutic environments is crucial. Together with Kerry, we explore how to create spaces that meet these unique needs, highlighting techniques such as using fidget tools and incorporating favorite objects into learning activities. By embracing a child's developmental stage and interests, educators and therapists can craft engaging experiences that foster participation and social interaction. Tune in to gain valuable insights and support as we navigate this special phase in a child's education journey.
danabaltutis.com, mytherapyhouse.com.au, https://mytherapyhouse.com.au/your-childs-therapy-journey/ https://www.danabaltutis.com/services
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome Kerry Herbert , our amazing, extraordinary
early childhood educator at myTherapy House.
Welcome to the Empowered ParentPodcast and I'm so happy to have
you on the show today becauselast year a lot of people
listened to your podcast andthis podcast is about supporting
(00:27):
parents to support theirchildren in going back to school
.
People are going to be goingback to school depending on when
you are listening to thispodcast either this week or next
week, and we just wanted tosupport you in helping your kids
transition and have great daysin their first days of kindy and
(00:51):
school.
So, kerry, you're an earlychildhood teacher and you've got
years and years and years ofexperience in the kindy room.
You have worked in variouskindies and still continue to do
so as a substitute teacher.
In your busy life, you're alsoworking at my therapy house and
we are so lucky and privilegedto have you and you've developed
(01:15):
a development through playprogram and you know how to
support children holistically soin their regulation, regulation
, play, ideas, communication andsocial experiences.
Thank you so much for beinghere today thank you very much,
dana.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It's lovely to be talking again and I'm so glad
that people were finding ithelpful last time.
Oh, they were they were sokerry.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
First question that I'm sure a lot of parents are
thinking about at this time ofyear how can parents get their
children ready for school orkindy now that the holidays are
coming to an end?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, and when routines have all been varied
and having to get back to thatroutine.
Hopefully this is joining on totransition that they would have
had at the end of the year.
So this is adding on andfollowing on from there.
(02:18):
It might have been visits,there might have been a booklet
with photos that they could havebeen looking at during the
holidays.
Certainly, hopefully, duringthe holidays they've been
talking a lot about this iswhat's happening and this is
what's going with a verycomfortable and helping to the
(02:38):
children to feel safe aboutwhat's happening.
It will be exciting, but alsojust just comfortable and a safe
feeling that, yep, this iswhat's the next step.
We're going into school orkindy, and they've already been
hopefully talking about that.
But I was thinking some ideas,so certainly talking about what
(03:01):
all the family members will bedoing when it's time to go to
kindy or school.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So what does that mean?
Like mum will be at work or mumwill be at home, mum will be
busy washing dishes or somethinglike that.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, like that Dad's doing this, brother's doing
this, sister's doing that andyou're doing this.
So it's sort of everybody isfinding out Busy, everyone's
busy Knowing what you're doingthis.
So it's sort of everybody isfinding busy, busy, knowing what
they're doing um, and what'sgoing to happen in the in steps,
what the sequence will be, andany pictures and photos that can
be part of those chats anddiscussions and will be
(03:39):
wonderful to help so you meanlike having a photo of mum
washing the dishes?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Is that what you mean ?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Those sorts of things and also then the steps of the
morning routine.
So when it's school kindy day,we'll be getting up, we'll be
washing or brushing teeth,putting shoes on all of those
steps.
So I'd say have a practice runat least one um where you go
through as though it is theschool kindy day.
Yeah, and taking photos.
(04:10):
This is um child putting onshoes.
You're putting on your shoesand all the photos along the way
of the steps that will behappening on that first day and
this is like a practice um andpractice, and even preparing for
the practice day and makingthat sort of a little bit
exciting too, putting it on thecalendar.
(04:31):
Oh, tomorrow's our practicekindy school day.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, and taking lots of photos so that a little
booklet can be made to practiceand go over that again.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
And oh, here I am, and then they can share that
with the other members of thefamily and friends, and would it
be a good idea to have likekindy clothes, you know, like
their special kindy clothes,like it could be like a T-shirt
and shorts or a little skirt andT-shirt, because that way, kids
may have a uniform, but theymay not.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
But then if they have special kindy clothes, yeah,
then that would be like, oh,I've got to put my kindy clothes
on because I'm going yes tokindy if they can yeah, and
certainly clothes that areallowed to get messy uh-huh,
paint, glue, mud, sand doesn'tmatter if they're comfortable,
kindy clothes that are allowedto be messy so children aren't
(05:23):
arriving thinking, oh, I can'ttouch this, I can't touch that,
I can't do this worrying abouttheir clothes hopefully not that
they are kidney clothes thatcan get messy.
Yep, that would be really good.
And so with the practising it.
So they're getting up, so it'son the calendar tomorrow is our
kidney school day.
They're getting up and practisegetting up at the correct times
(05:46):
, like talking about the timeand whatever way is going to be
waking people up at the righttime an alarm or a phone or a
clock or that sort of thing.
So actually going through itand having the alarm go off and
okay, this is what we're doing.
This is our practice day today.
Yeah right and certainly clothes, and even the night before it's
(06:06):
good to be checking the weathertogether.
It is often that schoolskindies will be checking the
weather and the UV rating.
So if they've done that thenight before they'll be aware
that they need to put sunscreenon in the morning.
What the UV rating is.
If they're doing that at schoolin their first group time
(06:29):
they'll be prepared.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
They'll think oh, I know what that is, I've already
done that at home.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, wow, oh I love that, so today's going to be UV
rating of six or whatever it is.
That sort of thing is good,where the family can be doing it
together at home and thatchild's feeling confident about
that sort of thing.
Reading for kindy in school.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And I guess making you know that meaning around UV
rating what it means.
You know when the sun is thehottest and then that could burn
our skin.
So when the sunscreen's on, ithelps us and then we stay in the
shade and we have our hat on.
You know those type of things?
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yes, all of those sorts of chats will be part of
at home as well as definitely atkindy in school they'll be
talking about and havingfrequent drinks of water will be
another thing.
So all part of packing the bagis they may need to pack their
own sunscreen.
Some children have certainsunscreen, some will use the
general sunscreen in theclassroom, but some need to have
(07:32):
their own right.
Um, they'll be packing theirhats and their some spare
clothes.
Um, so packing the bag thenight before and do all of this
packing for the practice one aswell.
So with the child yes, with thechild that their names on
everything, um.
So they've practiced gettingall of those things getting up,
(07:55):
getting up the correct time andthen putting on the choice of
clothes that they might havealready discussed because
they've looked at the weatherthe night before, or a uniform
Some kindies might have a kindytop and then packing the bag
with the food, snacks, drinksand maybe shopping together to
(08:17):
talk about those sorts of foods.
Oh yeah, I love that that theywant to have and that they can
have, because many Hindus havegot their healthy food policy
and their nut policies andthere's different policies
around what food can and can'tbe taken for the day um, packing
plenty of food.
It's fine to have more thanenough.
(08:40):
It's better to have food thatcomes home than the child wasn't
didn't have enough and felthungry.
Yeah, right, yeah, so plenty offood, drink, um, and then, once
the bag is packed um, and maybealso, uh, something might be
like a self-regulating item forthem if they've got fidget toy
(09:03):
or a special toy or a teddy orhave a special yet comfort type
thing.
Um, they may not be allowedperhaps in the that different
policies will work at differentkitties and schools.
But, um, but there might besomething that can just be in
special in the bag in a littlepocket.
Yeah right, they can either lookat when they're getting need to
(09:25):
at any time, look at their bag,just feel it.
It might even be something intheir clothes that they can have
in their pocket, that they canjust feel, or it might be a
photo, um and a, or a photo ofwho's picking you up today, and
then it will be that parentcaregiver that they can just
look at as needed during theirfirst day, or, yeah, something
(09:47):
like a special stone or a littlemessage, and would it be nice
that if the parent had somethingspecial and the child had
something special and like say,if you've got like two little
stones, rocks, or you've got twolittle teddies, and then
mummy's teddy is going to bewith mum, and then when we come
(10:08):
together our teddies can betogether, that's lovely, because
then that will be.
Yeah, those sorts of things so alittle special thing that they
can just think about for moments.
That's the thing.
So a little special thing thatthey can just think about for
moments, because there'll bemoments that they're feeling a
little uncomfortable or worriedor scared.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So if they know that's just there, or they may
not even look at it all day, butthey're just even just knowing-
so it's like an anchor.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It's an anchor for them, like an emotional anchor.
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So, talking about that and having that in the bag,
um, and any assistive as liketechnology they might need,
whether they're takingheadphones or anything for
sensory needs, or um, glassescommunicate, yeah, if there's
anything like that, or theircommunication aids, yeah those
(10:57):
sorts of things.
These will all be bigdiscussions or on the list for
packing the bag.
It's quite a thing to have thebag packed, so then packing that
and then going by the mode oftransport that will be
(11:17):
predominantly on the day.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So if it's going to be walking to school or kindy
all the time, then off we go andwe do the practice walk or the
practice drive and looking atthings on the way sort of lots
of sightseeing, so that it'spart of the routine.
Oh look, there's the house withnumber 20 on it, or there's the
garden that has the rose or therose yeah or those sorts of
(11:43):
things.
Yeah, right.
So part of the whole practiceis making it very familiar.
Yeah, okay.
And just yeah, the more familiarand comfortable and safe
feeling that's really important,then the easier it will be.
And if you've had, you know,two, three practices at least,
or if they might want to ask formore and they might have
(12:06):
practices just the parentcaregiver who's mostly taking
them, and themselves, but thenthey might have another practice
with the siblings along too,because they might be part of
that morning routine.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Other members of the family, and if they're going to
kindy only two days a week orthree mornings, they might want
to practice the other days or onthe weekends.
Is that right yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And good to practice on different days, because
there's different, as we know,travelling to work.
It can be different ondifferent days.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It can be busier.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Some days it can be busier, some days it can be
rubbish trucks some days, yes.
It can be there's differentthings happening in the
community on different days.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, so it's good to sort of experience, those too on
different days and aboutpacking the bag.
Is it better to pack the bagthe night before or that morning
?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
It's good to look at bag the night before or that
morning.
It's good to look at it thenight before, yeah, but
realistically that doesn'talways happen, especially once
it's once it starts gettingreally busy yeah, it might start
off that you're doing it thenight before.
Yeah, um, certainly glad.
Yeah, having a quick check thenight before and that will
become more routine, routine,and then yeah, saving time in
(13:21):
the morning, but it might stillneed that last check off and and
that might be part of thepictorial sort of sequence that
you're going through in themorning, you know, have you
checked your bag and have we gotthis?
It?
Can be part of that practice.
Yeah, yeah, oh.
Is your lunch box in there?
Drink bottle, those sorts ofthings can be a quick check as
well in the morning.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And then so, getting there to the place and actually
some schools are in holidays areokay that you can go in and sit
on the oval or sit in theplayground and use it, and so
then open up the bag and have apractice, have the picnic, have
the food.
actually, packed and have apicnic there, which is really
good for practicing opening andshutting containers and finding
(14:07):
out which ones are reallydifficult and not working uh-huh
, or which ones, yeah.
So that's a really goodpractice because, um, sometimes
teachers are close by forhelping, but sometimes they're
not and it can be hard if achild's just sitting there and
feels uncomfortable to be ableto ask for help.
(14:28):
So if they could be asindependent as possible as
opening all the containers,that's really.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, I love that Really.
They feel safer and confident.
Yes, it's not another extraadded stress yes, yes for the
day, yes, um.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
So yeah, that's good, do do the actual practice eat
the food.
Taking photos if you haven'talready had transition booklet
with photos, taking photostaking a photo of them in front
of their kidney or the school umtaking photos.
Taking a photo of them in frontof their kindy or their school
taking photos of buildings andthe yard and the oval or any
different things that you cansee.
So then they can be back homeagain in a booklet and looked at
(15:09):
and shared with other familymembers and the rest of the
family.
So it's just a matter of reallydoing as much as possible
together and as many times aspossible, just so that it's not
first day.
Everything is new.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Because the new thing will be once they walk into
their room with the new kids,with the teacher right, that's
already going to be the newness.
So as long as they've got theirbeginning part worked out and
the you know coming home partworked out, that will help them.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, that certainly helps.
And yeah, talking about thedropping off, the picking up,
hopefully they've had transitionvisits so they will be able to
keep talking about those.
Remember you went and saw yourteacher.
Hopefully they might all knowthe teacher's name so they can
keep using that name.
They might have photos Stilltaught.
(16:07):
Oh, remember we had to put thebag here and the so on first day
it will be perhaps parentcaregiver helping do those
routines.
And that's fine to help do thatfor a while, the signing in
which might vary for differentkindies, and then gradually they
can start becoming moreindependent with those things.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
That's great.
Great advice, Kerry.
Yeah, so I think I love thepractical stuff that you can
give.
You know, it's just, I thinkthis would be great for families
.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I think just thinking of the day through and doing as
much as you can and having asmany pictures and doing the real
things as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So if children are fearful of going for that first
day, what could parents do aboutit?
You know, what could they say,what could they do if kids are
fearful?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, and that might vary too.
Hopefully the chat of talkingabout going to school has been
fairly comfortable and safe andnot causing too much anxiety
about going beforehand, butthere is still going to be that,
as we all feel, starting, a newjob going to a new gym going
(17:27):
going anywhere new or doinganything new, starting a new
hobby even, is like, oh hope Ican do this sort of thing.
So there is going to be that.
So it is reassurance and it'sokay to feel worried and fearful
and but it's just stayingsettled as much as possible as a
parent, because inside they'reprobably thinking, oh no, it's
(17:48):
their first day yes I'm soworried and how they're going to
go.
Yes, might be getting quiteteary, yes.
So, um, fine parent, if you canhold on to that as much as
possible and be grounded to helpthe child go through that.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Because what happens if the child sees the parent
crying?
What message does that give thechild?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It can be really confusing, because then the
child's not sure oh, mommy,daddy's sad.
Why are they crying?
Or are they hurt or something'shappened?
Is it a good thing?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
that I'm doing yeah, and then why, why am I?
They're crying because I'mgoing to school, yeah, and then
that that could really leave alasting impression in the
child's mind, right?
The quick image just be evenquick of the mother in tears or
the dad in tears and associatedwith school.
(18:47):
So that's not a great start toyour school life, is it?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
No, no, so holding it in and being courageous, yes,
being just comfortable and safeand going through.
And that's good for the parentto have had the practice days
too, because we've been throughthis, I know it's going to
happen.
That would probably bring upfeelings like, oh my goodness,
even while you're doing thepractice for yourself, and then
(19:12):
you can run to the car and gothey're in, they're settled.
Okay, go to the car and then goyeah, they're in, they're
settled.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Okay, go to the car and then, or yeah, get home and
have some time yourself, put thekettle on and have a cuppa,
yeah, or do something that youlike, and I guess that's the
other thing, isn't it?
It's not only for children, butfor parents that maybe the
parents need to have somethingnice for themselves that day as
well, whether it's if you likeshopping, go shopping.
If you just want to sit homeand have the place to yourself,
(19:45):
if that's what's happening, havethe place to yourself and watch
the TV, because the child willcome back at whatever time,
because it is a big change inlife for everybody, isn't it?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
very much so.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
It is for everyone.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, it's a good idea to have a plan of what
you're going to do, or to go outwith your friend, talk to a
friend.
Or you might have a sibling athome, still with you, and now
it's some special time for them.
Yes, because they don't alwaysget that.
Yeah, time alone with mom ordad.
So now it's like oh, we dropyou off.
(20:23):
You're settled in school andwe're going to go to the park
together now, or um?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
and I guess the other thing is carrie.
Isn't it that, um, some parentshave these reactions to their
kids going to school because oftheir own experiences at school?
Um, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
to that?
Yeah, very much so, andhopefully I think most teachers
are very aware that um, allparents have had variety of
their own schooling associations.
Yeah, yeah and so um hope, butwe do hope that we can help
parents not transfer that ontotheir own child um they might
(21:05):
just have heard, even just besort of apprehensive, because
they've heard other otherparents talking about oh, when
my child first started school itwas terrible or something so
they might still be carryingthat because it's their first
one, um, but yeah, teachers arevery aware of that, of being
(21:26):
there ready to help with the newchildren, and that's a big part
of what transition's about too.
I think teachers are very awarethat during transition time
they'll start picking up oh,this parent's not had a good
time when they went to school.
So that helps if they've sortof thought about that before the
(21:46):
first day and help the parent,you know, go through anything
that they might have.
Some parents might say, oh, itwas terrible for me when I went
to school.
They already have startedtalking about that in some
visits and, as a teacher, saying, oh, we hope to make this
different.
What happened to you?
What can you remember?
(22:07):
Share the memories.
And then you might be able tosay, oh, when we start school
now, transition looks like this,or it's different, or that sort
of thing won't happen anymore.
To help reassure parents andsee that it's a brand new
experience and hopefully, yeah,they can remember that it's new
(22:28):
and different.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
For each person and there might have been moments
that the parents had a greattime at school.
So really remembering those andthe other thing, I guess.
Guess, if parents are stuck inthis uh, you know, negative
state around or negativeemotions or fear around their
child, um, then they shouldreally be seeking professional
(22:51):
help, because they don't wantfrom a mental health
professional, because they don'twant to be carrying that and
then always being apprehensiveor hyper vigilant and then
really projecting that on theteacher, which who then projects
it on the chart.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
You know, like that, that could just be not a great
great place to be yeah certainlyif it's really really carrying
on that would be good to havesome help there.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Professional help.
Yeah, what questions?
What would be some questionsthe parents could ask their
educational setting to ensurethat their children have a great
experience with their first dayat kindy or school.
What would they be?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And during the transitions too.
Hopefully they've had time toask different sorts of questions
about how the school kindystaff will be catering for their
child, especially if they haveany particular special needs.
Sensory needs needs.
(24:04):
Sensory needs um any, like thesort of assistive communication
technologies, or um anxieties orwhatever yeah, and preparing
the room, if they've got um, ifsounds are going to affect or
(24:25):
lights that sort of thing.
Um, also, if they're alreadyhaving therapy, then that the
school kinder are understandingthat they might have some time
out to attend their therapy andhow important that is to be able
to continue with that.
So feeding that into theschedule.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So, as a teacher, Kerry, what you know, I know
that there are some teachers insome schools that have got a
policy that, oh look, childrencan't leave, you know, during
the week or during the day toattend therapies, like because
they're going to miss so much atschool.
You've had your foot in bothplaces, in the therapeutic
(25:06):
clinic as well as the school.
Um, what would you say to that?
What would you say to parents?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think it would be um for parents to.
If that's the school they'vedefinitely decided on already
anyway, then start a networkbetween therapist and school so
that we can discuss that theirtherapy is very important.
How can we work this out withthe schedule?
(25:34):
I think also, transition couldlook quite creative, especially
in the early days.
It might be just half days, itmight be two days a week three
days a week, that sort of um.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So some kids have Wednesdays off, right, yeah,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So the therapy can still be worked in with those
and talking about what theschedule, what their timetable
might look like, and trying tofit it in as much as possible.
But it can't always work outexactly that the therapy session
(26:10):
is going to fit in thetimetable that the school are
offering.
But I think if they'vediscussed how important it is
for the child to continue withtheir therapy because they're
they really have those needs andit will benefit them at school
anyway.
So setting up that network sothere can be communication
between therapists and schoolteacher and any support workers
(26:34):
that they might be having atschool or kindy early, is really
good so that that can becommunicated between everyone
and worked out as best aspossible and worked out as much
as best as possible.
(26:54):
I think that hopefully, schoolkindy are ready for the child
and are understanding.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
They need to be flexible for the child's needs
in that area.
And that's one of your sayingsthat I always love it's not
having the child ready for theschool kindy, it's having the
school kindy ready for the childright.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Definitely yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I love that.
I love that saying.
That's a Kerry saying.
So what about teachers, kerry?
What would be some suggestionsyou could give them when they
have like a new complex child inthe classroom, especially young
teachers who are just comingout of college, and how could
(27:32):
they prepare themselves, like,how could they view the child?
You know, like I really believeit's all about perception.
You know, when you see someoneand they've got different
behaviours and you think, oh myGod, that is going to change
your behaviour, to say, oh wow,look, he's so delightful and
(27:53):
he's got his own little way ofexpressing himself, right.
So it's about that state ofmind.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes, and I guess hopefully I keep thinking
because there's been transitionbut sometimes there hasn't.
But you've got some backgroundon the child so you're aware of
any diagnosis or particularsensory needs they might have.
So you've already set up yourroom and the kidney environment
(28:23):
with those needs in mind.
Like it might be, if it's sound, then the block cupboards might
have material at the bottom sothat it's not so loud with the
blocks.
So just being aware of the wayyou set up the kindy to make the
experience and that willbenefit all of the children.
(28:44):
It doesn't need to.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Can you talk to to, because I know you have worked
with quite complex children inthe therapy uh room and you've
also had interactions withteachers that have wanted the
children to uh abide by theschool curriculum.
Like, how have you mentored theteachers around that when you
(29:09):
have spoken from the therapeuticpoint of view about the child?
Say, for example, the childwon't sit on a mat, what would
you say to a teacher around that?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
around that um.
So it's getting to know thechild's needs and also being
flexible and creative.
So the child may not be sittingin the group, sitting on the
particular area, um, but theymight be just in the room, still
able to supervise, still ableto see, because that child might
need to be moving and doing,but still able to take in.
Perhaps there's a story beingread, then, um, they'll still be
(29:58):
engaging, listening, aware ofthe story, but needing to move,
um, and that might startgradually out sitting at another
table or doing something inanother area of the kidney room.
But then they might graduallystart getting closer and closer
and sitting, or, and then theymight have something fidgety to
(30:21):
sit on, something fiddly, fidget, toys or something to hold and
squeeze and to help them if theystill need to be able to move
their body, being aware thatthey might come and go, come and
sit for a while and then go,but that's okay because it's
working with that child's needs.
They might have a support workerwith them that's able to move
(30:44):
with them and help support themcoming and going, but I think
just allowing that that's okay,that they can still be in the
room.
They're joining us, they'reengaging at their own level,
they're aware of what'shappening and just being
allowing for their needs.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
So you always really look at the child where they're
at developmentally, don't you?
You don't look at this is wherethey need to be.
I've got to push them to getthere.
Is that right?
How do you do it, kerry?
Because you've got prettymagical skills in getting the
best out of kids.
How do you do it?
What's in your mind when yousee a child that?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
is different.
I usually like to see know someof their interests or see what
they do get interested in andthen using that to help them
join in or do things and, likewe do in therapy, naming and
(31:45):
which is good to do at kindy inschool as well just naming
everything so that they're awarethat you are there, you're with
them, you're being with them.
It helps their socialinteraction because you can.
If you're naming things andother children are tuning in,
you might you'll be naming whatthe other children are doing so
they can sort of look up andtune in to what's happening with
(32:08):
the other children.
Asking other children to comeand join or helping name.
That child might be holdingsomething out and might say, oh
look, they're passing that toyou but they haven't cued into
that.
So helping with those socialcues so that both the other
child and the child that'sperhaps needing to be supported
(32:30):
is also cueing in, so helpingboth sides which is great for
the all-round communicationreally.
Anyway, sometimes I've sat withlike relief teaching.
I might be sitting on the matand I can see a child's very
wriggly and needs movement, so Imight just do some squeezes,
(32:50):
like just hold the hand and justdo some squeezes and then
they're able.
You can almost just feel themgo oh, and they just relax and
then they can listen to thestory by just having their hand
squeezed.
Then they can.
It's just like oh, you've takencare of that for me, so now I
can just sit and engage andlisten to the story.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
It might be just as simple as that sort of thing, or
holding some material orsomething, or holding something
that they are interested in.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
So you really go deep , don't you, and ask parents
what is your are interested in?
Um.
So you really, you really godeep, don't you, and ask parents
what is your child interestedin?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
definitely that helps .
Yeah, I do like to find outwhat they're interested in so
that and and that might be for awhile, or you can use like if
they're very interested invehicles cars or something or or
dinosaurs, yep, or dinosaurs.
So then, well, these items thatthey're very interested in can
(33:52):
then go and do daily skills, sothe car or the dinosaur can have
the bath and brush its teeth orbrush its hair, and get dressed
.
And then or put their bag awayyeah, all of those things Can go
and have a slide, do something,have a swing or sit at bag away
yeah, all of those things Cango and have a slide, have a
swing, or sit at the table yeah,sit and have a listen of the
(34:15):
story.
So using those sorts of thingscan help the child join.
And yet those sort ofcharacters can help them join in
with what's going on and evenwork out problems like problem
solving.
So the cars might have somesort of problem like those
(34:36):
pro-social skills of sharing andturn-taking and things like
that Then the cars might not besharing.
So you work it out with the carsand the child just joins the
conversation.
The car might ask the child canyou help me?
The other car's not sharingwith me.
And sometimes the children willcome up with some really good
ideas and they've been part ofthe problem solving Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Kerry, you are like a trove of information.
I'm wondering, if someone'slistening a teacher or a parent
and they'd like a one-offconsult or two consults with you
, would you be open to that?
Um, yeah, okay, yeah, I'm surecarrie is pretty amazing.
(35:22):
Everyone I know, I've known herfor many years I think eight,
nine years now and um it, kerry,can make something magical out
of, uh, something that you think, oh, what are we going to do
with that?
So I know you're, you're,you're, you know you're really
amazing at coming up withcreative ideas.
So, kerry, just finishing off,um, what?
(35:45):
So if parents are now listeningto this and they're thinking,
what is the one thing I could dofor my child right now, before
they start school this year?
What would be your number onehighlight of everything that
you've said?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Keep it go at their pace, keep it try and not be
rushed.
So just allowing time, allowingtime for supporting and being
at their going at their pace.
If they need you to stay for awhile at kindy, then stay for a
while.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Um so yeah, helping them just and what if they take
a long time?
So when we talk about notrushed, what if they take a long
time in the morning?
Does that mean that the familyneeds to be getting up earlier?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
maybe, but we're not wanting to head to 4 am or or
something, no, no no, and thatwill be practice too, and
allowing time and hopefullythese sorts of things I was
talking about, by having thepictures even looking at, tuning
into the clock or using timersand we've run out of time for
(37:03):
that now or just to help thattime awareness, because it is
difficult for children to bethat concept of time and how
long it takes to put shoes onand things um.
So, yeah, it's hard to get thatbalance between rushing and
having time to go at their ownpace, um, even if for a while
(37:28):
it's letting schoolkidney knowthis is really taking us a long
time.
We might be running a bit latesome days, but we're practicing,
but we're working through.
This is good and hopefully,yeah, teachers will be
understanding.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
And that's the goal right.
The goal is that the thirdchild comes on time.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
That would be maybe one of the child's goals and
that would be enough forstarting, yeah, yeah, but I
think the more practice and themore just getting used to it and
familiar to begin with is goingto help.
For when?
So that it's not all.
There's going to be so many newsensory things, so many new
(38:09):
different experiences for thatfirst day, so do as much as you
can just to make it all likethis part.
We've oh, we've done this, yeah, a few times now.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
That's, that's easy, that bit now yeah, thank you so
much, kerry, for being on thepodcast.
I'm going to leave your contactdetails in the show notes.
How people?
Well, not your contact details,but more about you in our show
notes.
So if people want to reach outand ask some questions, they can
(38:42):
, because I know this canpotentially be a stressful time
for families and children, butit also can be an amazing time
because, wow, your children arestarting a new phase in their
life.
They're going to be learningmore, they're going to be
(39:04):
meeting more people and forparents, it's a new phase in
their life as well, after maybefour or five years of being
either at home or um trying tojuggle uh, work and you know
home life.
So, yeah, thank you so much,kerry and um, I'm hoping that
(39:26):
this podcast is helpful tofamilies and this podcast will
be published earlier than normalbecause I know that we're
trying to get it in beforechildren go to school.
So thank you very much, kerryagain, for coming on the show.
Thank you very much, donna.
Welcome Kerry Herbert , our amazing, extraordinary
early childhood educator at myTherapy House.
Welcome to the Empowered ParentPodcast and I'm so happy to have
you on the show today becauselast year a lot of people
listened to your podcast andthis podcast is about supporting
(00:27):
parents to support theirchildren in going back to school
.
People are going to be goingback to school depending on when
you are listening to thispodcast either this week or next
week, and we just wanted tosupport you in helping your kids
transition and have great daysin their first days of kindy and
(00:51):
school.
So, kerry, you're an earlychildhood teacher and you've got
years and years and years ofexperience in the kindy room.
You have worked in variouskindies and still continue to do
so as a substitute teacher.
In your busy life, you're alsoworking at my therapy house and
we are so lucky and privilegedto have you and you've developed
(01:15):
a development through playprogram and you know how to
support children holistically soin their regulation, regulation
, play, ideas, communication andsocial experiences.
Thank you so much for beinghere today thank you very much,
dana.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It's lovely to be talking again and I'm so glad
that people were finding ithelpful last time.
Oh, they were they were sokerry.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
First question that I'm sure a lot of parents are
thinking about at this time ofyear how can parents get their
children ready for school orkindy now that the holidays are
coming to an end?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, and when routines have all been varied
and having to get back to thatroutine.
Hopefully this is joining on totransition that they would have
had at the end of the year.
So this is adding on andfollowing on from there.
(02:18):
It might have been visits,there might have been a booklet
with photos that they could havebeen looking at during the
holidays.
Certainly, hopefully, duringthe holidays they've been
talking a lot about this iswhat's happening and this is
what's going with a verycomfortable and helping to the
(02:38):
children to feel safe aboutwhat's happening.
It will be exciting, but alsojust just comfortable and a safe
feeling that, yep, this iswhat's the next step.
We're going into school orkindy, and they've already been
hopefully talking about that.
But I was thinking some ideas,so certainly talking about what
(03:01):
all the family members will bedoing when it's time to go to
kindy or school.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So what does that mean?
Like mum will be at work or mumwill be at home, mum will be
busy washing dishes or somethinglike that.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, like that Dad's doing this, brother's doing
this, sister's doing that andyou're doing this.
So it's sort of everybody isfinding out Busy, everyone's
busy Knowing what you're doingthis.
So it's sort of everybody isfinding busy, busy, knowing what
they're doing um, and what'sgoing to happen in the in steps,
what the sequence will be, andany pictures and photos that can
be part of those chats anddiscussions and will be
(03:39):
wonderful to help so you meanlike having a photo of mum
washing the dishes?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Is that what you mean ?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Those sorts of things and also then the steps of the
morning routine.
So when it's school kindy day,we'll be getting up, we'll be
washing or brushing teeth,putting shoes on all of those
steps.
So I'd say have a practice runat least one um where you go
through as though it is theschool kindy day.
Yeah, and taking photos.
(04:10):
This is um child putting onshoes.
You're putting on your shoesand all the photos along the way
of the steps that will behappening on that first day and
this is like a practice um andpractice, and even preparing for
the practice day and makingthat sort of a little bit
exciting too, putting it on thecalendar.
(04:31):
Oh, tomorrow's our practicekindy school day.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, and taking lots of photos so that a little
booklet can be made to practiceand go over that again.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
And oh, here I am, and then they can share that
with the other members of thefamily and friends, and would it
be a good idea to have likekindy clothes, you know, like
their special kindy clothes,like it could be like a T-shirt
and shorts or a little skirt andT-shirt, because that way, kids
may have a uniform, but theymay not.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
But then if they have special kindy clothes, yeah,
then that would be like, oh,I've got to put my kindy clothes
on because I'm going yes tokindy if they can yeah, and
certainly clothes that areallowed to get messy uh-huh,
paint, glue, mud, sand doesn'tmatter if they're comfortable,
kindy clothes that are allowedto be messy so children aren't
(05:23):
arriving thinking, oh, I can'ttouch this, I can't touch that,
I can't do this worrying abouttheir clothes hopefully not that
they are kidney clothes thatcan get messy.
Yep, that would be really good.
And so with the practising it.
So they're getting up, so it'son the calendar tomorrow is our
kidney school day.
They're getting up and practisegetting up at the correct times
(05:46):
, like talking about the timeand whatever way is going to be
waking people up at the righttime an alarm or a phone or a
clock or that sort of thing.
So actually going through itand having the alarm go off and
okay, this is what we're doing.
This is our practice day today.
Yeah right and certainly clothes, and even the night before it's
(06:06):
good to be checking the weathertogether.
It is often that schoolskindies will be checking the
weather and the UV rating.
So if they've done that thenight before they'll be aware
that they need to put sunscreenon in the morning.
What the UV rating is.
If they're doing that at schoolin their first group time
(06:29):
they'll be prepared.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
They'll think oh, I know what that is, I've already
done that at home.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, wow, oh I love that, so today's going to be UV
rating of six or whatever it is.
That sort of thing is good,where the family can be doing it
together at home and thatchild's feeling confident about
that sort of thing.
Reading for kindy in school.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And I guess making you know that meaning around UV
rating what it means.
You know when the sun is thehottest and then that could burn
our skin.
So when the sunscreen's on, ithelps us and then we stay in the
shade and we have our hat on.
You know those type of things?
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yes, all of those sorts of chats will be part of
at home as well as definitely atkindy in school they'll be
talking about and havingfrequent drinks of water will be
another thing.
So all part of packing the bagis they may need to pack their
own sunscreen.
Some children have certainsunscreen, some will use the
general sunscreen in theclassroom, but some need to have
(07:32):
their own right.
Um, they'll be packing theirhats and their some spare
clothes.
Um, so packing the bag thenight before and do all of this
packing for the practice one aswell.
So with the child yes, with thechild that their names on
everything, um.
So they've practiced gettingall of those things getting up,
(07:55):
getting up the correct time andthen putting on the choice of
clothes that they might havealready discussed because
they've looked at the weatherthe night before, or a uniform
Some kindies might have a kindytop and then packing the bag
with the food, snacks, drinksand maybe shopping together to
(08:17):
talk about those sorts of foods.
Oh yeah, I love that that theywant to have and that they can
have, because many Hindus havegot their healthy food policy
and their nut policies andthere's different policies
around what food can and can'tbe taken for the day um, packing
plenty of food.
It's fine to have more thanenough.
(08:40):
It's better to have food thatcomes home than the child wasn't
didn't have enough and felthungry.
Yeah, right, yeah, so plenty offood, drink, um, and then, once
the bag is packed um, and maybealso, uh, something might be
like a self-regulating item forthem if they've got fidget toy
(09:03):
or a special toy or a teddy orhave a special yet comfort type
thing.
Um, they may not be allowedperhaps in the that different
policies will work at differentkitties and schools.
But, um, but there might besomething that can just be in
special in the bag in a littlepocket.
Yeah right, they can either lookat when they're getting need to
(09:25):
at any time, look at their bag,just feel it.
It might even be something intheir clothes that they can have
in their pocket, that they canjust feel, or it might be a
photo, um and a, or a photo ofwho's picking you up today, and
then it will be that parentcaregiver that they can just
look at as needed during theirfirst day, or, yeah, something
(09:47):
like a special stone or a littlemessage, and would it be nice
that if the parent had somethingspecial and the child had
something special and like say,if you've got like two little
stones, rocks, or you've got twolittle teddies, and then
mummy's teddy is going to bewith mum, and then when we come
(10:08):
together our teddies can betogether, that's lovely, because
then that will be.
Yeah, those sorts of things so alittle special thing that they
can just think about for moments.
That's the thing.
So a little special thing thatthey can just think about for
moments, because there'll bemoments that they're feeling a
little uncomfortable or worriedor scared.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So if they know that's just there, or they may
not even look at it all day, butthey're just even just knowing-
so it's like an anchor.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It's an anchor for them, like an emotional anchor.
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So, talking about that and having that in the bag,
um, and any assistive as liketechnology they might need,
whether they're takingheadphones or anything for
sensory needs, or um, glassescommunicate, yeah, if there's
anything like that, or theircommunication aids, yeah those
(10:57):
sorts of things.
These will all be bigdiscussions or on the list for
packing the bag.
It's quite a thing to have thebag packed, so then packing that
and then going by the mode oftransport that will be
(11:17):
predominantly on the day.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So if it's going to be walking to school or kindy
all the time, then off we go andwe do the practice walk or the
practice drive and looking atthings on the way sort of lots
of sightseeing, so that it'spart of the routine.
Oh look, there's the house withnumber 20 on it, or there's the
garden that has the rose or therose yeah or those sorts of
(11:43):
things.
Yeah, right.
So part of the whole practiceis making it very familiar.
Yeah, okay.
And just yeah, the more familiarand comfortable and safe
feeling that's really important,then the easier it will be.
And if you've had, you know,two, three practices at least,
or if they might want to ask formore and they might have
(12:06):
practices just the parentcaregiver who's mostly taking
them, and themselves, but thenthey might have another practice
with the siblings along too,because they might be part of
that morning routine.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Other members of the family, and if they're going to
kindy only two days a week orthree mornings, they might want
to practice the other days or onthe weekends.
Is that right yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And good to practice on different days, because
there's different, as we know,travelling to work.
It can be different ondifferent days.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It can be busier.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Some days it can be busier, some days it can be
rubbish trucks some days, yes.
It can be there's differentthings happening in the
community on different days.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, so it's good to sort of experience, those too on
different days and aboutpacking the bag.
Is it better to pack the bagthe night before or that morning
?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
It's good to look at bag the night before or that
morning.
It's good to look at it thenight before, yeah, but
realistically that doesn'talways happen, especially once
it's once it starts gettingreally busy yeah, it might start
off that you're doing it thenight before.
Yeah, um, certainly glad.
Yeah, having a quick check thenight before and that will
become more routine, routine,and then yeah, saving time in
(13:21):
the morning, but it might stillneed that last check off and and
that might be part of thepictorial sort of sequence that
you're going through in themorning, you know, have you
checked your bag and have we gotthis?
It?
Can be part of that practice.
Yeah, yeah, oh.
Is your lunch box in there?
Drink bottle, those sorts ofthings can be a quick check as
well in the morning.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And then so, getting there to the place and actually
some schools are in holidays areokay that you can go in and sit
on the oval or sit in theplayground and use it, and so
then open up the bag and have apractice, have the picnic, have
the food.
actually, packed and have apicnic there, which is really
good for practicing opening andshutting containers and finding
(14:07):
out which ones are reallydifficult and not working uh-huh
, or which ones, yeah.
So that's a really goodpractice because, um, sometimes
teachers are close by forhelping, but sometimes they're
not and it can be hard if achild's just sitting there and
feels uncomfortable to be ableto ask for help.
(14:28):
So if they could be asindependent as possible as
opening all the containers,that's really.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, I love that Really.
They feel safer and confident.
Yes, it's not another extraadded stress yes, yes for the
day, yes, um.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
So yeah, that's good, do do the actual practice eat
the food.
Taking photos if you haven'talready had transition booklet
with photos, taking photostaking a photo of them in front
of their kidney or the school umtaking photos.
Taking a photo of them in frontof their kindy or their school
taking photos of buildings andthe yard and the oval or any
different things that you cansee.
So then they can be back homeagain in a booklet and looked at
(15:09):
and shared with other familymembers and the rest of the
family.
So it's just a matter of reallydoing as much as possible
together and as many times aspossible, just so that it's not
first day.
Everything is new.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Because the new thing will be once they walk into
their room with the new kids,with the teacher right, that's
already going to be the newness.
So as long as they've got theirbeginning part worked out and
the you know coming home partworked out, that will help them.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, that certainly helps.
And yeah, talking about thedropping off, the picking up,
hopefully they've had transitionvisits so they will be able to
keep talking about those.
Remember you went and saw yourteacher.
Hopefully they might all knowthe teacher's name so they can
keep using that name.
They might have photos Stilltaught.
(16:07):
Oh, remember we had to put thebag here and the so on first day
it will be perhaps parentcaregiver helping do those
routines.
And that's fine to help do thatfor a while, the signing in
which might vary for differentkindies, and then gradually they
can start becoming moreindependent with those things.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
That's great.
Great advice, Kerry.
Yeah, so I think I love thepractical stuff that you can
give.
You know, it's just, I thinkthis would be great for families
.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I think just thinking of the day through and doing as
much as you can and having asmany pictures and doing the real
things as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So if children are fearful of going for that first
day, what could parents do aboutit?
You know, what could they say,what could they do if kids are
fearful?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, and that might vary too.
Hopefully the chat of talkingabout going to school has been
fairly comfortable and safe andnot causing too much anxiety
about going beforehand, butthere is still going to be that,
as we all feel, starting, a newjob going to a new gym going
(17:27):
going anywhere new or doinganything new, starting a new
hobby even, is like, oh hope Ican do this sort of thing.
So there is going to be that.
So it is reassurance and it'sokay to feel worried and fearful
and but it's just stayingsettled as much as possible as a
parent, because inside they'reprobably thinking, oh no, it's
(17:48):
their first day yes I'm soworried and how they're going to
go.
Yes, might be getting quiteteary, yes.
So, um, fine parent, if you canhold on to that as much as
possible and be grounded to helpthe child go through that.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Because what happens if the child sees the parent
crying?
What message does that give thechild?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It can be really confusing, because then the
child's not sure oh, mommy,daddy's sad.
Why are they crying?
Or are they hurt or something'shappened?
Is it a good thing?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
that I'm doing yeah, and then why, why am I?
They're crying because I'mgoing to school, yeah, and then
that that could really leave alasting impression in the
child's mind, right?
The quick image just be evenquick of the mother in tears or
the dad in tears and associatedwith school.
(18:47):
So that's not a great start toyour school life, is it?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
No, no, so holding it in and being courageous, yes,
being just comfortable and safeand going through.
And that's good for the parentto have had the practice days
too, because we've been throughthis, I know it's going to
happen.
That would probably bring upfeelings like, oh my goodness,
even while you're doing thepractice for yourself, and then
(19:12):
you can run to the car and gothey're in, they're settled.
Okay, go to the car and then goyeah, they're in, they're
settled.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Okay, go to the car and then, or yeah, get home and
have some time yourself, put thekettle on and have a cuppa,
yeah, or do something that youlike, and I guess that's the
other thing, isn't it?
It's not only for children, butfor parents that maybe the
parents need to have somethingnice for themselves that day as
well, whether it's if you likeshopping, go shopping.
If you just want to sit homeand have the place to yourself,
(19:45):
if that's what's happening, havethe place to yourself and watch
the TV, because the child willcome back at whatever time,
because it is a big change inlife for everybody, isn't it?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
very much so.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
It is for everyone.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, it's a good idea to have a plan of what
you're going to do, or to go outwith your friend, talk to a
friend.
Or you might have a sibling athome, still with you, and now
it's some special time for them.
Yes, because they don't alwaysget that.
Yeah, time alone with mom ordad.
So now it's like oh, we dropyou off.
(20:23):
You're settled in school andwe're going to go to the park
together now, or um?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
and I guess the other thing is carrie.
Isn't it that, um, some parentshave these reactions to their
kids going to school because oftheir own experiences at school?
Um, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
to that?
Yeah, very much so, andhopefully I think most teachers
are very aware that um, allparents have had variety of
their own schooling associations.
Yeah, yeah and so um hope, butwe do hope that we can help
parents not transfer that ontotheir own child um they might
(21:05):
just have heard, even just besort of apprehensive, because
they've heard other otherparents talking about oh, when
my child first started school itwas terrible or something so
they might still be carryingthat because it's their first
one, um, but yeah, teachers arevery aware of that, of being
(21:26):
there ready to help with the newchildren, and that's a big part
of what transition's about too.
I think teachers are very awarethat during transition time
they'll start picking up oh,this parent's not had a good
time when they went to school.
So that helps if they've sortof thought about that before the
(21:46):
first day and help the parent,you know, go through anything
that they might have.
Some parents might say, oh, itwas terrible for me when I went
to school.
They already have startedtalking about that in some
visits and, as a teacher, saying, oh, we hope to make this
different.
What happened to you?
What can you remember?
(22:07):
Share the memories.
And then you might be able tosay, oh, when we start school
now, transition looks like this,or it's different, or that sort
of thing won't happen anymore.
To help reassure parents andsee that it's a brand new
experience and hopefully, yeah,they can remember that it's new
(22:28):
and different.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
For each person and there might have been moments
that the parents had a greattime at school.
So really remembering those andthe other thing, I guess.
Guess, if parents are stuck inthis uh, you know, negative
state around or negativeemotions or fear around their
child, um, then they shouldreally be seeking professional
(22:51):
help, because they don't wantfrom a mental health
professional, because they don'twant to be carrying that and
then always being apprehensiveor hyper vigilant and then
really projecting that on theteacher, which who then projects
it on the chart.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
You know, like that, that could just be not a great
great place to be yeah certainlyif it's really really carrying
on that would be good to havesome help there.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Professional help.
Yeah, what questions?
What would be some questionsthe parents could ask their
educational setting to ensurethat their children have a great
experience with their first dayat kindy or school.
What would they be?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And during the transitions too.
Hopefully they've had time toask different sorts of questions
about how the school kindystaff will be catering for their
child, especially if they haveany particular special needs.
Sensory needs needs.
(24:04):
Sensory needs um any, like thesort of assistive communication
technologies, or um anxieties orwhatever yeah, and preparing
the room, if they've got um, ifsounds are going to affect or
(24:25):
lights that sort of thing.
Um, also, if they're alreadyhaving therapy, then that the
school kinder are understandingthat they might have some time
out to attend their therapy andhow important that is to be able
to continue with that.
So feeding that into theschedule.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So, as a teacher, Kerry, what you know, I know
that there are some teachers insome schools that have got a
policy that, oh look, childrencan't leave, you know, during
the week or during the day toattend therapies, like because
they're going to miss so much atschool.
You've had your foot in bothplaces, in the therapeutic
(25:06):
clinic as well as the school.
Um, what would you say to that?
What would you say to parents?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think it would be um for parents to.
If that's the school they'vedefinitely decided on already
anyway, then start a networkbetween therapist and school so
that we can discuss that theirtherapy is very important.
How can we work this out withthe schedule?
(25:34):
I think also, transition couldlook quite creative, especially
in the early days.
It might be just half days, itmight be two days a week three
days a week, that sort of um.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So some kids have Wednesdays off, right, yeah,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So the therapy can still be worked in with those
and talking about what theschedule, what their timetable
might look like, and trying tofit it in as much as possible.
But it can't always work outexactly that the therapy session
(26:10):
is going to fit in thetimetable that the school are
offering.
But I think if they'vediscussed how important it is
for the child to continue withtheir therapy because they're
they really have those needs andit will benefit them at school
anyway.
So setting up that network sothere can be communication
between therapists and schoolteacher and any support workers
(26:34):
that they might be having atschool or kindy early, is really
good so that that can becommunicated between everyone
and worked out as best aspossible and worked out as much
as best as possible.
(26:54):
I think that hopefully, schoolkindy are ready for the child
and are understanding.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
They need to be flexible for the child's needs
in that area.
And that's one of your sayingsthat I always love it's not
having the child ready for theschool kindy, it's having the
school kindy ready for the childright.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Definitely yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I love that.
I love that saying.
That's a Kerry saying.
So what about teachers, kerry?
What would be some suggestionsyou could give them when they
have like a new complex child inthe classroom, especially young
teachers who are just comingout of college, and how could
(27:32):
they prepare themselves, like,how could they view the child?
You know, like I really believeit's all about perception.
You know, when you see someoneand they've got different
behaviours and you think, oh myGod, that is going to change
your behaviour, to say, oh wow,look, he's so delightful and
(27:53):
he's got his own little way ofexpressing himself, right.
So it's about that state ofmind.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes, and I guess hopefully I keep thinking
because there's been transitionbut sometimes there hasn't.
But you've got some backgroundon the child so you're aware of
any diagnosis or particularsensory needs they might have.
So you've already set up yourroom and the kidney environment
(28:23):
with those needs in mind.
Like it might be, if it's sound, then the block cupboards might
have material at the bottom sothat it's not so loud with the
blocks.
So just being aware of the wayyou set up the kindy to make the
experience and that willbenefit all of the children.
(28:44):
It doesn't need to.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Can you talk to to, because I know you have worked
with quite complex children inthe therapy uh room and you've
also had interactions withteachers that have wanted the
children to uh abide by theschool curriculum.
Like, how have you mentored theteachers around that when you
(29:09):
have spoken from the therapeuticpoint of view about the child?
Say, for example, the childwon't sit on a mat, what would
you say to a teacher around that?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
around that um.
So it's getting to know thechild's needs and also being
flexible and creative.
So the child may not be sittingin the group, sitting on the
particular area, um, but theymight be just in the room, still
able to supervise, still ableto see, because that child might
need to be moving and doing,but still able to take in.
Perhaps there's a story beingread, then, um, they'll still be
(29:58):
engaging, listening, aware ofthe story, but needing to move,
um, and that might startgradually out sitting at another
table or doing something inanother area of the kidney room.
But then they might graduallystart getting closer and closer
and sitting, or, and then theymight have something fidgety to
(30:21):
sit on, something fiddly, fidget, toys or something to hold and
squeeze and to help them if theystill need to be able to move
their body, being aware thatthey might come and go, come and
sit for a while and then go,but that's okay because it's
working with that child's needs.
They might have a support workerwith them that's able to move
(30:44):
with them and help support themcoming and going, but I think
just allowing that that's okay,that they can still be in the
room.
They're joining us, they'reengaging at their own level,
they're aware of what'shappening and just being
allowing for their needs.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
So you always really look at the child where they're
at developmentally, don't you?
You don't look at this is wherethey need to be.
I've got to push them to getthere.
Is that right?
How do you do it, kerry?
Because you've got prettymagical skills in getting the
best out of kids.
How do you do it?
What's in your mind when yousee a child that?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
is different.
I usually like to see know someof their interests or see what
they do get interested in andthen using that to help them
join in or do things and, likewe do in therapy, naming and
(31:45):
which is good to do at kindy inschool as well just naming
everything so that they're awarethat you are there, you're with
them, you're being with them.
It helps their socialinteraction because you can.
If you're naming things andother children are tuning in,
you might you'll be naming whatthe other children are doing so
they can sort of look up andtune in to what's happening with
(32:08):
the other children.
Asking other children to comeand join or helping name.
That child might be holdingsomething out and might say, oh
look, they're passing that toyou but they haven't cued into
that.
So helping with those socialcues so that both the other
child and the child that'sperhaps needing to be supported
(32:30):
is also cueing in, so helpingboth sides which is great for
the all-round communicationreally.
Anyway, sometimes I've sat withlike relief teaching.
I might be sitting on the matand I can see a child's very
wriggly and needs movement, so Imight just do some squeezes,
(32:50):
like just hold the hand and justdo some squeezes and then
they're able.
You can almost just feel themgo oh, and they just relax and
then they can listen to thestory by just having their hand
squeezed.
Then they can.
It's just like oh, you've takencare of that for me, so now I
can just sit and engage andlisten to the story.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
It might be just as simple as that sort of thing, or
holding some material orsomething, or holding something
that they are interested in.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
So you really go deep , don't you, and ask parents
what is your are interested in?
Um.
So you really, you really godeep, don't you, and ask parents
what is your child interestedin?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
definitely that helps .
Yeah, I do like to find outwhat they're interested in so
that and and that might be for awhile, or you can use like if
they're very interested invehicles cars or something or or
dinosaurs, yep, or dinosaurs.
So then, well, these items thatthey're very interested in can
(33:52):
then go and do daily skills, sothe car or the dinosaur can have
the bath and brush its teeth orbrush its hair, and get dressed
.
And then or put their bag awayyeah, all of those things Can go
and have a slide, do something,have a swing or sit at bag away
yeah, all of those things Cango and have a slide, have a
swing, or sit at the table yeah,sit and have a listen of the
(34:15):
story.
So using those sorts of thingscan help the child join.
And yet those sort ofcharacters can help them join in
with what's going on and evenwork out problems like problem
solving.
So the cars might have somesort of problem like those
(34:36):
pro-social skills of sharing andturn-taking and things like
that Then the cars might not besharing.
So you work it out with the carsand the child just joins the
conversation.
The car might ask the child canyou help me?
The other car's not sharingwith me.
And sometimes the children willcome up with some really good
ideas and they've been part ofthe problem solving Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Kerry, you are like a trove of information.
I'm wondering, if someone'slistening a teacher or a parent
and they'd like a one-offconsult or two consults with you
, would you be open to that?
Um, yeah, okay, yeah, I'm surecarrie is pretty amazing.
(35:22):
Everyone I know, I've known herfor many years I think eight,
nine years now and um it, kerry,can make something magical out
of, uh, something that you think, oh, what are we going to do
with that?
So I know you're, you're,you're, you know you're really
amazing at coming up withcreative ideas.
So, kerry, just finishing off,um, what?
(35:45):
So if parents are now listeningto this and they're thinking,
what is the one thing I could dofor my child right now, before
they start school this year?
What would be your number onehighlight of everything that
you've said?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Keep it go at their pace, keep it try and not be
rushed.
So just allowing time, allowingtime for supporting and being
at their going at their pace.
If they need you to stay for awhile at kindy, then stay for a
while.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Um so yeah, helping them just and what if they take
a long time?
So when we talk about notrushed, what if they take a long
time in the morning?
Does that mean that the familyneeds to be getting up earlier?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
maybe, but we're not wanting to head to 4 am or or
something, no, no no, and thatwill be practice too, and
allowing time and hopefullythese sorts of things I was
talking about, by having thepictures even looking at, tuning
into the clock or using timersand we've run out of time for
(37:03):
that now or just to help thattime awareness, because it is
difficult for children to bethat concept of time and how
long it takes to put shoes onand things um.
So, yeah, it's hard to get thatbalance between rushing and
having time to go at their ownpace, um, even if for a while
(37:28):
it's letting schoolkidney knowthis is really taking us a long
time.
We might be running a bit latesome days, but we're practicing,
but we're working through.
This is good and hopefully,yeah, teachers will be
understanding.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
And that's the goal right.
The goal is that the thirdchild comes on time.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
That would be maybe one of the child's goals and
that would be enough forstarting, yeah, yeah, but I
think the more practice and themore just getting used to it and
familiar to begin with is goingto help.
For when?
So that it's not all.
There's going to be so many newsensory things, so many new
(38:09):
different experiences for thatfirst day, so do as much as you
can just to make it all likethis part.
We've oh, we've done this, yeah, a few times now.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
That's, that's easy, that bit now yeah, thank you so
much, kerry, for being on thepodcast.
I'm going to leave your contactdetails in the show notes.
How people?
Well, not your contact details,but more about you in our show
notes.
So if people want to reach outand ask some questions, they can
(38:42):
, because I know this canpotentially be a stressful time
for families and children, butit also can be an amazing time
because, wow, your children arestarting a new phase in their
life.
They're going to be learningmore, they're going to be
(39:04):
meeting more people and forparents, it's a new phase in
their life as well, after maybefour or five years of being
either at home or um trying tojuggle uh, work and you know
home life.
So, yeah, thank you so much,kerry and um, I'm hoping that
(39:26):
this podcast is helpful tofamilies and this podcast will
be published earlier than normalbecause I know that we're
trying to get it in beforechildren go to school.
So thank you very much, kerryagain, for coming on the show.
Thank you very much, donna.
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