June 20, 2024 • 30 mins
Today we're exploring one of the most critical aspects of any relationship: communication. More specifically, we'll focus on the concept of relational listening and how it can transform your interactions and help heal troubled relationships.
Episode Highlights:
What is Relational Listening?
- Understanding relational listening as a connection-focused approach.
- Why the only agenda should be the connection itself.
- The importance of feeling heard and how it serves as the foundation for healing.
Three Levels of Relational Listening:
- Attentive Listening:
- The basics of maintaining eye contact, non-verbal cues, and avoiding interruptions.
- Reflective listening: repeating back what you've heard to ensure understanding.
- Empathetic Listening:
- Going deeper by showing empathy and being mindful of context.
- Acknowledging what is accurate or understandable about the other person's perspective.
- Collaborative Listening:
- Engaging in dialogue and finding solutions together.
- Building trust and maintaining a healthy connection through shared goals and values.
Practical Tips:
- How to validate without agreeing.
- Using curiosity to build connection.
- Starting light with sharing feelings to build comfort with vulnerability.
Resources:
- Free Download: Mastering Relational Listening - A summary of today's key principles and practical tips.
- Mini-Course: Rephrase Your Relationship - Learn three powerful phrases to shift the tone in your relationship. Available now with a discount!
Listener Engagement:
- Share your feedback, questions, and ideas for future episodes.
- Visit brentpeak.com to send a message or email.
If you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to download your free resource and check out the mini-course to deepen your understanding and practice of relational listening. Let’s build stronger, more connected relationships together!
Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected, stay curious, and keep listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Empowered Serenity podcast. I'm Brent Peak, a licensed professional counselor
(00:15):
and therapeutic coach. Are you ready to reclaim yourself worth, reduce stress, and build stronger,
healthier relationships? Then you've come to the right place. Each week, we'll dive
into practical strategies and heartfelt insights designed to help you cultivate inner peace
and live a more empowered, balanced life. That's the journey we're on together. From
(00:41):
emotional healing to transformative connections, we'll explore a variety of topics to support
you on your path to true empowerment and serenity. Join me on this journey to deep emotional
healing and discover the peace and strength within you.
(01:06):
Welcome to the Empowered Serenity podcast. I'm Brent Peake. And today, I want to talk
to you all about about what I think is one of the most important aspects of a relationship,
and that is the communication. Now, there are other key elements of being able to have
(01:28):
a healthy relationship. But I believe that communication is the nexus of all of these
other things. And specifically, what I want to focus on today is this aspect that I want
to refer to as relational listening. I believe that in order for a troubled relationship
(01:59):
to begin to heal, and I would call this the holy grail of what happens in the relationship
intensives that I do, it is when one person feels deeply and sincerely heard by the other
person. Feeling heard, I think is probably the most important thing that can happen in
(02:29):
a relationship in order to begin a healing process. So feeling heard, I want to talk
more about that today. I want to talk more about this concept of relational listening.
So relational listening, let me let me define that just a little bit. So the term relational,
(02:53):
in my mind, simply means that there's no agenda in our connection other than the connection
itself. I'm not going to try and change you. I'm not going to try and change myself for
you. We are both free to be us. But we're also both open to influence from each other.
(03:15):
And so being relational with each other means that we are not going to try and change anybody,
that we are willing and able to accept each other where we're at in this moment. That
doesn't mean there's never room for improvement. That doesn't mean we'll never have requests
of the other person. But I think all of us know deep down that if you go into a relationship,
(03:38):
feeling like you need to change the other person, things aren't going to go well. And
you know that when you sense someone trying to change you, things don't go very well.
So relational, being relational simply means that we're not going to try and change each
other. We that the only agenda and our connection is the connection itself. So relational listening
(04:06):
means that the only agenda in my listening to you is to be connected to you. And I truly
believe based on the many, many intensives that I've done, the many, many family weeks
(04:26):
that I helped host at the Meadows when I was an inpatient family therapist, that this idea
of feeling heard truly is the turning point. And it truly is the thing that has to happen
to help healing happen in a relationship. It is not about, and I know there's a lot
(04:51):
of buzzwords out there and I may take some flack for this, but it is not about conflict
resolution. I've never had a training in conflict resolution. I don't help people resolve conflicts.
And that might sound really, you know, against the grain for a couple of therapists, but
it's not what I do. To me, that is a beneficial side effect of what we end up doing. Oftentimes
(05:17):
when someone truly feels heard and people have really communicated in a healthy relational
way, their problems tend to either dissolve or become far more surmountable. There is
a, when someone feels heard, there is a change in how you feel. And when that feeling state
(05:37):
changes, your perspective of problems changes and many of them do simply dissolve. And it
came down to, I just need to know that, that it's okay to be me about this topic when I'm
with you, rather than feeling like I need to change for you. So relational listening
(06:04):
and helping someone feel heard comes down to just a few key principles here. So what
does relational listening involve? Number one, it means being attentive. You have to
be willing to be attentive to the other person and ready to listen to them. And we'll come
(06:25):
back to that level of listening in just a moment. But number two, validating. You need
to be able to validate where someone is coming from. That doesn't mean you agree. Okay. Validation
does not require agreement, but it does mean that, hey, I know you're not crazy for thinking
the way you do. Number three, curious. You want to make sure that as you sit down to
(06:46):
listen to someone else, that you are curious about where they're coming from. Your job
when you're listening is to get to know them better. Again, the only agenda item for relational
listening is the connection. And you build that connection by being curious about who
someone else is, what they're thinking, what it's like to be them around this circumstance
or around this situation. And I love the Ted Lasso quote, be curious, not judgmental. And
(07:13):
I will probably say that one again on this podcast. Number four, supportive. As you're
listening to someone, your purpose in doing so is to be supportive of them. And then finally,
collaborative. We need to know that we're on a team here. So these are the core principles
of relational listening. That it's not, I'm not listening to defend myself. I'm not listening
(07:37):
to try and figure out what I can use against you to change you. Those are not elements
of an emotionally safe atmosphere for a conversation to happen. So we need to make sure that we
keep those things in mind. So relational listening, there are three levels of relational listening
that I want to get into today and they get progressively more involved. The first one's
(08:01):
relatively simple. And by the time we get to the last one, you're, you're, you've got
a master's degree in listening. But level one, relational listening is attentive listening.
Intuitive listening is that most basic listening level that simply says, I care about what
(08:22):
you're saying right now. And it matters enough to me that I am going to sit here and listen
in a way that lets you know that what you have to say is important. So how do we do
that? Okay. Maintaining eye contact, making sure that you are listening with intent and
that the person can tell through something as simple as, as your eye contact. Okay. Also
(08:50):
watching your verbal cues, excuse me, the nonverbal cues. Well, the verbal cues as well.
We'll get to that one in just a moment, but watching the nonverbal cues. There are things
that we do that betray what's going on inside our skull. When we roll our eyes, when we
sigh, when we cross our arms, these are the things that you've heard under the, under
(09:14):
what's often referred to as active listening. And that's certainly active listening is definitely
a piece of relational listening. But this is relational listening is about more than
just a skillset. It is about a mindset. And so that's what I really want to focus on today.
But there are some practical things here to let someone know you're listening. So attentive
listening is mostly about those visible skills, maintaining eye contact, watching your nonverbal
(09:40):
cues, avoiding interruptions, not interrupting the person that's speaking. Now that means
you're going to, you're going to have to control yourself, but we don't interrupt the person
who's speaking. And then finally, attentive listening, there is some opportunity for you
(10:01):
to speak. And that is to be reflective, to ask reflective questions, to reflect back
to the person, what you heard them say. I I've often been surprised when I am, when
I'm working with a couple and I'll have someone share and the other one's just listening.
And by the way, we don't do a lot of back and forths. It is you share, you listen. Okay.
(10:25):
We don't trade places until until the person who has shared feels heard. And so I don't
know how many times I've asked the person who was sharing, do you feel heard? And they
say yes. And then and seldom do they say no, by the way, these these techniques really
work. But they say yes. And and when they do, I ask them, so how, how do you know that
(10:50):
this person's listening to you? What are they doing that helps you feel heard? And I'm surprised
at how often the answer to that question is something as simple as they were able to repeat
back to me what I said. And that's reflective listening right there, which is part of active
listening, which is a part of what we're talking about today with relational listening, that
(11:14):
they were listening enough and attentive enough to simply be able to repeat back what was
said. And it seems like a simple thing, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard
people share that as the number one thing that helped them feel heard. Talk about low
hanging fruit to help heal your relationship. Listen to the person with the intent of understanding
(11:37):
it well enough to be able to reflect it back to them. So I think what you're telling me
right now is that you you had a stressful day at work, you're feeling overwhelmed, and
you just need some downtime tonight. Heck yeah, that's what I just said. Thank you. I love
that you get this. So being able to to listen reflectively like that is a key aspect of
(12:02):
attentive listening. So attentive listening is the most foundational form of listening,
and it simply lets the person know that I am I'm giving you my attention and I am listening
to understand you. The second level of relational listening is empathetic listening. Empathetic
(12:30):
listening, we take it we take it a bit deeper. With empathetic listening, we have two things
that we want to keep in mind. Okay, number one, that we are showing empathy. And the
other one is that we are mindful of context. So let me show the context one first actually.
So when you're listening to someone else, I want you to be aware of the context around
(12:55):
what they're saying. We have a tendency to excuse our own actions by not seeing them
as part of a pattern. When when our spouse says to us, you know, you didn't take out
the trash again. And this is the way you are and they make it part of a larger pattern.
(13:15):
And in your mind, you're excusing it because this time, you had a good excuse. In your
mind anyway, why you didn't take the trash out. And so you don't want them to see it
as part of a pattern. And and I and I usually tell folks when you are discussing someone
else's behavior and you're sharing with them about their behavior, do your best not to
(13:36):
lump it into a pattern. But when you are listening to someone share about your behavior, put
it in the context. It is understandable that they would see this event as part of a larger
pattern. So put it into context, let them go ahead and put it into context if they are
even if you don't agree that this is a situation that belongs in that context. Okay, but be
(14:02):
considerate of the context. If you are listening to the other person, because that will help
with the other aspect of empathetic listening, our second level of relational listening,
which is empathy. Empathy is probably the most important element that helps validate
(14:25):
someone else and can help them emotionally feel heard through this process. And it's
also probably the number one complaint that I hear from couples is I get no empathy from
him. She doesn't have any empathy for how I feel about this.
Here's where empathy starts. Empathy starts by acknowledging what is accurate or understandable
(14:51):
about what you've just heard. The person tells you the other your spouse, your partner, family
member, someone's telling you how some of your actions have affected them. And, and
let's say, you know, they're talking about you, you did A and B and C. And you're thinking,
(15:13):
you know what, I don't agree at all with A, but yeah, a little bit of B, probably true.
A little bit, a little bit of C, maybe a little more of C, probably true also. Acknowledge
what is accurate or understandable. If they say something and you know it's true, yeah,
I did that. Acknowledge it. If, if they say something and they've interpreted a little
(15:35):
bit differently, like you did this, and I know it's because you're mad at me, and you
weren't mad at them, okay, don't, don't try to defend yourself and say you weren't mad
at them. Just acknowledge that it's understandable that they would think you were mad at them.
Empathy starts by acknowledging what is accurate or understandable. So you're basically letting
the person know, I don't think you're crazy. I don't agree, but I don't think you're crazy.
(15:59):
I get it. It's understandable. Acknowledge what's accurate or understandable. That is,
in a nutshell, the best way to show empathy and then considering that context as well
to help you develop some more empathy. But acknowledge the emotions that they're likely
feeling and not just the anger. There's always other more vulnerable emotions under anger,
(16:22):
sadness, fear, embarrassment. So be sure to acknowledge what you think those might be,
even if the other person isn't expressing it. That's a really good way to help them
feel heard. So empathetic listening, it validates what you're hearing. And again, validation
does not require agreement. We do not need agreement. Agreement's the icing on the cake
(16:43):
here. If we find agreement, wonderful, but agreement is not required in order to heal
a relationship. There may be some basic values and principles you need to agree on, but when
it comes to the details of a certain situation or even someone's interpretation of it, the
most important thing at this point isn't, isn't agreeing. It is validating. Because
(17:07):
if we make our goal to agree, then we're going to start trying to, well, we're going to think
we've got the better perspective, the more accurate perspective. And in order to get
agreement, we have to convince them that they're wrong and that they should agree with us.
And that is a trap. You do not need to find agreement or a consensus around the facts
(17:33):
or interpretations of a situation. People want to be validated. I was working with adult
siblings one time, brother and a sister, and it was, it was a difficult conversation. This
brother just did not agree with anything he was hearing from his sister. And even as I
(17:59):
was checking in with them, I just asked, you know, what are you feeling as you hear her
speak? And he was like, I'm frustrated. I'm angry. And at the end of the conversation,
I asked her, do you, did you feel heard today as he sat and listened to you? And she said,
yes, absolutely. And I was a little surprised. And I'm like, how do you know he's listening?
(18:21):
She said, this was the first time that we've talked about this and nobody yelled. You know,
that right there, that right there is all they needed to be able to validate. And in
this situation, he clearly disagreed with her, but both of them were willing to give
(18:42):
the other space. And he demonstrated really good level one attentive listening. Okay.
And they both were able to practice empathy level two listening. Now level three, the
third and highest level of listening of relational listening is collaborative listening. Collaborative
(19:02):
listening is when we've got the others down and we can actually start bending the rules
a little bit. This is where we can get into the back and forth. But by this time, we have
to have clearly established that we are, that we feel safe with each other and we don't
feel like the other person has an agenda with us other than simply maintaining a healthy
(19:26):
connection and dialogue. Collaborative listening, you've got to have the first two levels as
a prerequisite, attentive listening, empathetic listening. With collaborative listening, we
can begin to really engage in dialogue. We can start working on finding solutions together
because the key element here is the word we. I'm not casting you as the villain in my story
(19:49):
right now. We are on the same team and we can trust each other and work together because
we know deep down, even in the midst of our disagreements, we have shared goals, shared
values, and we have hope that we're going to get there. I'm committed to this process
and I know you are, and we are hopeful that we're going to figure it out. So in the midst
(20:10):
of everything that we might disagree on, we've done those first two levels of listening,
so we trust each other and we can begin to collaborate and talk about the obstacles that
are in the way without anyone feeling judged and without anyone getting defensive. Collaborative
listening is what we want to get to. But the problem is that we forget that the goal of
(20:34):
relational listening is simply the connection, the goal of being relational. Relational means
that our only agenda is the connection itself. And when we make it about being right and
trying to get the other person to do this or do that, you know, or try to stop the other
person from thinking about us the way they seem to in that moment, then we are going
(20:59):
to have some troubles here. So it is important that we have that mindset that we are in this
together, that we both have expressed our commitment to each other and to finding a
way through this even when it doesn't look like there's a way through it. And so that
(21:20):
is relational listening, that those are the things that we need to make sure we're focusing
on. Yeah, some of the things that I hear from people sometimes, you know, objections to
this. You know, sometimes I might hear someone say, well, he never listens to me, so why
(21:40):
should I bother? Here's my blunt answer to that. If there's something you want in the
relationship, you're going to need to go first. The easiest trap to fall into is, well, you
know, you're not doing it, so why should I? I want you to do this. And then the other
(22:02):
person says, well, what about you? You don't do that. And we and everyone ends up just
retreating to their corners and waiting for the other person to come out and do something
different. If you want something in a relationship, you've got to go first. Simple as that. Now,
I'm not talking about abusive relationships. I'm not asking you to submit to abusive behavior.
(22:25):
But it is in a typical relationship where we're just, we've reached an impasse. If there's
something you want, then you've got to give it first. Okay. A lot of people will sometimes
tell me I'm uncomfortable sharing my feelings. And let me translate that for you. It's not
(22:49):
the feelings themselves. It is I'm uncomfortable with vulnerability. And many of us have really
good reasons for being uncomfortable with vulnerability. So let me be clear. I'm not
asking you to just do a big vulnerability dump all at one time. It is okay to take little
(23:12):
baby steps. You know, maybe each evening you pick one uncomfortable emotion you felt throughout
the day and you just share it with each other. Today, I felt embarrassed when I spilled my
drink in the break room at work. You know, that is one vulnerable emotion and just share
it. Start light with little things and that is okay. That does not have to become a deep
(23:35):
dark conversation about how you were humiliated as a child for this or that. Now that's probably
a conversation that would be good to have at some point in order to help build empathy
for each other. But you know, not every conversation has to feel like a couple's therapy session.
It is okay to start light with sharing those feelings. Get a list of emotions. Get one
(23:55):
of those simple ones, not that big wheel you see on Facebook with dozens of emotions. Just
start with a simple list of emotions and just pick one each night, share them with each
other. Here's what I felt today. And here's what happened when I felt this. And then here's
another one that I hear quite a bit. We tried this before. It didn't work. Well, let me
(24:17):
say I've heard that before and we did get things to work. So, you know, by the time
people have reached me, they've usually tried a lot of different things. A lot of people
I work with have been to other therapists. They've read other books. They've been to
workshops and they know a lot. But that's not a guarantee that they've actually been
(24:38):
practicing it the way it was intended. That's not a guarantee that they didn't miss something
along the way that could have been really critical. And so I just ask people, well,
you know, what are your options right now? You could continue the status quo or we could
give this a shot and see what happens. You know, there are easy and relatively inexpensive
(25:00):
ways to get started with this process. You know, come see me for one session. Come, you
know, download this resource, whatever, and let's give this a shot. But a lot of people
have tried other things before and they didn't work. That doesn't mean the next thing won't
(25:23):
work. There are a lot of different ways to tackle different problems in our lives and
not every method out there works for every person. I urge you not to give up because
the only other option is to be miserable. And I don't want you to be miserable. So if
you need help with this, give me a call. Reach out to me. I'll be happy to help you with
(25:47):
it. And keep listening. I got a resource for you at the end today that I'll tell you more
about. So it is important that we not give up. It is important that we recognize that
people can change. I have seen people change that their spouses, their partners never thought
they would change. I've seen people be able to do things to be vulnerable in ways that
(26:13):
their loved ones just never thought they would ever hear from them. I've heard people say
things in a session that the other person says it's the first time I've heard that and
it means so much. I never thought I would hear that. Relational listening is how you
get there. Let go of the agenda and be ready just to listen. Start with the basics of attentive
(26:39):
listening and watch your body language. Don't interrupt. Just sit and listen. And then empathetic
listening. What's accurate about what you're hearing from them? What's understandable?
You don't have to agree. Just validate. And then finally, collaborative listening. When
we trust each other, when we know that we're looking out for each other and we can begin
(27:02):
to tackle a problem, even one that we disagree on, without feeling judged just because we
have a disagreement. So relational listening. I do have a resource for you. So check the
show notes. So I made a resource for you on this. I made a PDF, Mastering Relational Listening.
(27:24):
Mastering Relational Listening kind of summarizes a lot of what we talked about today. So if
you go in the show notes or go to brentpeake.com, you can just click on the button for that
and download that free download. And then if you really want to take it further, there's
information in those resources on an online course I have. It's a short mini course. You
(27:45):
can listen to it. It's actually a private podcast feed. So you can just listen to this,
however you want to, called Rephrase Your Relationship. And in that one, I give you
three phrases that I teach everybody I work with. Every couple that I work with, three
phrases that when used sincerely and appropriately will shift the tone in your relationship.
(28:07):
But it starts with the relational listening. So go to the show notes or go to brentpeake.com
and get your free download, Mastering the Art of Relational Listening, and then follow
the links after that. If you want to take it a step further and get the online course,
Rephrase Your Relationship, there's a discount on that right now. It's easy to do. It's not
expensive at all. So go check that out. And I hope you'll do that. So thanks for listening.
(28:34):
This is my first full length episode. And I would welcome your feedback. So go to brentpeake.com
and click on the link where you can send me a message or an email. Would love to hear
your questions. Would love to hear your feedback and your ideas for future sessions on what
we can talk about in these episodes here. So thanks for listening and come back next
(28:56):
time for the Empowered Serenity Podcast.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Empowered Serenity Podcast. I hope our
conversation today has inspired you to embrace your journey toward deeper emotional healing,
empowerment and inner peace. Be sure to check the show notes for any resources that may
have been mentioned in this episode. And don't forget to visit brentpeake.com for additional
(29:20):
resources and information about working with me. If you found value in our discussion,
please share this podcast with others who might benefit and consider subscribing and
leaving a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking transformative change.
And remember, the path to empowered serenity is a journey and you're not alone. Until next
time, take care and keep moving forward with hope and resilience.
(29:48):
The information provided in the Empowered Serenity Podcast is for educational and informational
purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis or treatment.
Always seek the advice of your physician, therapist or other qualified health provider
with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health concerns.
Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something
(30:11):
you have heard on this podcast. If you are experiencing a crisis, please contact your
local emergency services or seek immediate help from a mental health professional. The
views expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the
views of Brent Peak or North Valley Therapy Services.
Welcome to the Empowered Serenity podcast. I'm Brent Peak, a licensed professional counselor
(00:15):
and therapeutic coach. Are you ready to reclaim yourself worth, reduce stress, and build stronger,
healthier relationships? Then you've come to the right place. Each week, we'll dive
into practical strategies and heartfelt insights designed to help you cultivate inner peace
and live a more empowered, balanced life. That's the journey we're on together. From
(00:41):
emotional healing to transformative connections, we'll explore a variety of topics to support
you on your path to true empowerment and serenity. Join me on this journey to deep emotional
healing and discover the peace and strength within you.
(01:06):
Welcome to the Empowered Serenity podcast. I'm Brent Peake. And today, I want to talk
to you all about about what I think is one of the most important aspects of a relationship,
and that is the communication. Now, there are other key elements of being able to have
(01:28):
a healthy relationship. But I believe that communication is the nexus of all of these
other things. And specifically, what I want to focus on today is this aspect that I want
to refer to as relational listening. I believe that in order for a troubled relationship
(01:59):
to begin to heal, and I would call this the holy grail of what happens in the relationship
intensives that I do, it is when one person feels deeply and sincerely heard by the other
person. Feeling heard, I think is probably the most important thing that can happen in
(02:29):
a relationship in order to begin a healing process. So feeling heard, I want to talk
more about that today. I want to talk more about this concept of relational listening.
So relational listening, let me let me define that just a little bit. So the term relational,
(02:53):
in my mind, simply means that there's no agenda in our connection other than the connection
itself. I'm not going to try and change you. I'm not going to try and change myself for
you. We are both free to be us. But we're also both open to influence from each other.
(03:15):
And so being relational with each other means that we are not going to try and change anybody,
that we are willing and able to accept each other where we're at in this moment. That
doesn't mean there's never room for improvement. That doesn't mean we'll never have requests
of the other person. But I think all of us know deep down that if you go into a relationship,
(03:38):
feeling like you need to change the other person, things aren't going to go well. And
you know that when you sense someone trying to change you, things don't go very well.
So relational, being relational simply means that we're not going to try and change each
other. We that the only agenda and our connection is the connection itself. So relational listening
(04:06):
means that the only agenda in my listening to you is to be connected to you. And I truly
believe based on the many, many intensives that I've done, the many, many family weeks
(04:26):
that I helped host at the Meadows when I was an inpatient family therapist, that this idea
of feeling heard truly is the turning point. And it truly is the thing that has to happen
to help healing happen in a relationship. It is not about, and I know there's a lot
(04:51):
of buzzwords out there and I may take some flack for this, but it is not about conflict
resolution. I've never had a training in conflict resolution. I don't help people resolve conflicts.
And that might sound really, you know, against the grain for a couple of therapists, but
it's not what I do. To me, that is a beneficial side effect of what we end up doing. Oftentimes
(05:17):
when someone truly feels heard and people have really communicated in a healthy relational
way, their problems tend to either dissolve or become far more surmountable. There is
a, when someone feels heard, there is a change in how you feel. And when that feeling state
(05:37):
changes, your perspective of problems changes and many of them do simply dissolve. And it
came down to, I just need to know that, that it's okay to be me about this topic when I'm
with you, rather than feeling like I need to change for you. So relational listening
(06:04):
and helping someone feel heard comes down to just a few key principles here. So what
does relational listening involve? Number one, it means being attentive. You have to
be willing to be attentive to the other person and ready to listen to them. And we'll come
(06:25):
back to that level of listening in just a moment. But number two, validating. You need
to be able to validate where someone is coming from. That doesn't mean you agree. Okay. Validation
does not require agreement, but it does mean that, hey, I know you're not crazy for thinking
the way you do. Number three, curious. You want to make sure that as you sit down to
(06:46):
listen to someone else, that you are curious about where they're coming from. Your job
when you're listening is to get to know them better. Again, the only agenda item for relational
listening is the connection. And you build that connection by being curious about who
someone else is, what they're thinking, what it's like to be them around this circumstance
or around this situation. And I love the Ted Lasso quote, be curious, not judgmental. And
(07:13):
I will probably say that one again on this podcast. Number four, supportive. As you're
listening to someone, your purpose in doing so is to be supportive of them. And then finally,
collaborative. We need to know that we're on a team here. So these are the core principles
of relational listening. That it's not, I'm not listening to defend myself. I'm not listening
(07:37):
to try and figure out what I can use against you to change you. Those are not elements
of an emotionally safe atmosphere for a conversation to happen. So we need to make sure that we
keep those things in mind. So relational listening, there are three levels of relational listening
that I want to get into today and they get progressively more involved. The first one's
(08:01):
relatively simple. And by the time we get to the last one, you're, you're, you've got
a master's degree in listening. But level one, relational listening is attentive listening.
Intuitive listening is that most basic listening level that simply says, I care about what
(08:22):
you're saying right now. And it matters enough to me that I am going to sit here and listen
in a way that lets you know that what you have to say is important. So how do we do
that? Okay. Maintaining eye contact, making sure that you are listening with intent and
that the person can tell through something as simple as, as your eye contact. Okay. Also
(08:50):
watching your verbal cues, excuse me, the nonverbal cues. Well, the verbal cues as well.
We'll get to that one in just a moment, but watching the nonverbal cues. There are things
that we do that betray what's going on inside our skull. When we roll our eyes, when we
sigh, when we cross our arms, these are the things that you've heard under the, under
(09:14):
what's often referred to as active listening. And that's certainly active listening is definitely
a piece of relational listening. But this is relational listening is about more than
just a skillset. It is about a mindset. And so that's what I really want to focus on today.
But there are some practical things here to let someone know you're listening. So attentive
listening is mostly about those visible skills, maintaining eye contact, watching your nonverbal
(09:40):
cues, avoiding interruptions, not interrupting the person that's speaking. Now that means
you're going to, you're going to have to control yourself, but we don't interrupt the person
who's speaking. And then finally, attentive listening, there is some opportunity for you
(10:01):
to speak. And that is to be reflective, to ask reflective questions, to reflect back
to the person, what you heard them say. I I've often been surprised when I am, when
I'm working with a couple and I'll have someone share and the other one's just listening.
And by the way, we don't do a lot of back and forths. It is you share, you listen. Okay.
(10:25):
We don't trade places until until the person who has shared feels heard. And so I don't
know how many times I've asked the person who was sharing, do you feel heard? And they
say yes. And then and seldom do they say no, by the way, these these techniques really
work. But they say yes. And and when they do, I ask them, so how, how do you know that
(10:50):
this person's listening to you? What are they doing that helps you feel heard? And I'm surprised
at how often the answer to that question is something as simple as they were able to repeat
back to me what I said. And that's reflective listening right there, which is part of active
listening, which is a part of what we're talking about today with relational listening, that
(11:14):
they were listening enough and attentive enough to simply be able to repeat back what was
said. And it seems like a simple thing, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard
people share that as the number one thing that helped them feel heard. Talk about low
hanging fruit to help heal your relationship. Listen to the person with the intent of understanding
(11:37):
it well enough to be able to reflect it back to them. So I think what you're telling me
right now is that you you had a stressful day at work, you're feeling overwhelmed, and
you just need some downtime tonight. Heck yeah, that's what I just said. Thank you. I love
that you get this. So being able to to listen reflectively like that is a key aspect of
(12:02):
attentive listening. So attentive listening is the most foundational form of listening,
and it simply lets the person know that I am I'm giving you my attention and I am listening
to understand you. The second level of relational listening is empathetic listening. Empathetic
(12:30):
listening, we take it we take it a bit deeper. With empathetic listening, we have two things
that we want to keep in mind. Okay, number one, that we are showing empathy. And the
other one is that we are mindful of context. So let me show the context one first actually.
So when you're listening to someone else, I want you to be aware of the context around
(12:55):
what they're saying. We have a tendency to excuse our own actions by not seeing them
as part of a pattern. When when our spouse says to us, you know, you didn't take out
the trash again. And this is the way you are and they make it part of a larger pattern.
(13:15):
And in your mind, you're excusing it because this time, you had a good excuse. In your
mind anyway, why you didn't take the trash out. And so you don't want them to see it
as part of a pattern. And and I and I usually tell folks when you are discussing someone
else's behavior and you're sharing with them about their behavior, do your best not to
(13:36):
lump it into a pattern. But when you are listening to someone share about your behavior, put
it in the context. It is understandable that they would see this event as part of a larger
pattern. So put it into context, let them go ahead and put it into context if they are
even if you don't agree that this is a situation that belongs in that context. Okay, but be
(14:02):
considerate of the context. If you are listening to the other person, because that will help
with the other aspect of empathetic listening, our second level of relational listening,
which is empathy. Empathy is probably the most important element that helps validate
(14:25):
someone else and can help them emotionally feel heard through this process. And it's
also probably the number one complaint that I hear from couples is I get no empathy from
him. She doesn't have any empathy for how I feel about this.
Here's where empathy starts. Empathy starts by acknowledging what is accurate or understandable
(14:51):
about what you've just heard. The person tells you the other your spouse, your partner, family
member, someone's telling you how some of your actions have affected them. And, and
let's say, you know, they're talking about you, you did A and B and C. And you're thinking,
(15:13):
you know what, I don't agree at all with A, but yeah, a little bit of B, probably true.
A little bit, a little bit of C, maybe a little more of C, probably true also. Acknowledge
what is accurate or understandable. If they say something and you know it's true, yeah,
I did that. Acknowledge it. If, if they say something and they've interpreted a little
(15:35):
bit differently, like you did this, and I know it's because you're mad at me, and you
weren't mad at them, okay, don't, don't try to defend yourself and say you weren't mad
at them. Just acknowledge that it's understandable that they would think you were mad at them.
Empathy starts by acknowledging what is accurate or understandable. So you're basically letting
the person know, I don't think you're crazy. I don't agree, but I don't think you're crazy.
(15:59):
I get it. It's understandable. Acknowledge what's accurate or understandable. That is,
in a nutshell, the best way to show empathy and then considering that context as well
to help you develop some more empathy. But acknowledge the emotions that they're likely
feeling and not just the anger. There's always other more vulnerable emotions under anger,
(16:22):
sadness, fear, embarrassment. So be sure to acknowledge what you think those might be,
even if the other person isn't expressing it. That's a really good way to help them
feel heard. So empathetic listening, it validates what you're hearing. And again, validation
does not require agreement. We do not need agreement. Agreement's the icing on the cake
(16:43):
here. If we find agreement, wonderful, but agreement is not required in order to heal
a relationship. There may be some basic values and principles you need to agree on, but when
it comes to the details of a certain situation or even someone's interpretation of it, the
most important thing at this point isn't, isn't agreeing. It is validating. Because
(17:07):
if we make our goal to agree, then we're going to start trying to, well, we're going to think
we've got the better perspective, the more accurate perspective. And in order to get
agreement, we have to convince them that they're wrong and that they should agree with us.
And that is a trap. You do not need to find agreement or a consensus around the facts
(17:33):
or interpretations of a situation. People want to be validated. I was working with adult
siblings one time, brother and a sister, and it was, it was a difficult conversation. This
brother just did not agree with anything he was hearing from his sister. And even as I
(17:59):
was checking in with them, I just asked, you know, what are you feeling as you hear her
speak? And he was like, I'm frustrated. I'm angry. And at the end of the conversation,
I asked her, do you, did you feel heard today as he sat and listened to you? And she said,
yes, absolutely. And I was a little surprised. And I'm like, how do you know he's listening?
(18:21):
She said, this was the first time that we've talked about this and nobody yelled. You know,
that right there, that right there is all they needed to be able to validate. And in
this situation, he clearly disagreed with her, but both of them were willing to give
(18:42):
the other space. And he demonstrated really good level one attentive listening. Okay.
And they both were able to practice empathy level two listening. Now level three, the
third and highest level of listening of relational listening is collaborative listening. Collaborative
(19:02):
listening is when we've got the others down and we can actually start bending the rules
a little bit. This is where we can get into the back and forth. But by this time, we have
to have clearly established that we are, that we feel safe with each other and we don't
feel like the other person has an agenda with us other than simply maintaining a healthy
(19:26):
connection and dialogue. Collaborative listening, you've got to have the first two levels as
a prerequisite, attentive listening, empathetic listening. With collaborative listening, we
can begin to really engage in dialogue. We can start working on finding solutions together
because the key element here is the word we. I'm not casting you as the villain in my story
(19:49):
right now. We are on the same team and we can trust each other and work together because
we know deep down, even in the midst of our disagreements, we have shared goals, shared
values, and we have hope that we're going to get there. I'm committed to this process
and I know you are, and we are hopeful that we're going to figure it out. So in the midst
(20:10):
of everything that we might disagree on, we've done those first two levels of listening,
so we trust each other and we can begin to collaborate and talk about the obstacles that
are in the way without anyone feeling judged and without anyone getting defensive. Collaborative
listening is what we want to get to. But the problem is that we forget that the goal of
(20:34):
relational listening is simply the connection, the goal of being relational. Relational means
that our only agenda is the connection itself. And when we make it about being right and
trying to get the other person to do this or do that, you know, or try to stop the other
person from thinking about us the way they seem to in that moment, then we are going
(20:59):
to have some troubles here. So it is important that we have that mindset that we are in this
together, that we both have expressed our commitment to each other and to finding a
way through this even when it doesn't look like there's a way through it. And so that
(21:20):
is relational listening, that those are the things that we need to make sure we're focusing
on. Yeah, some of the things that I hear from people sometimes, you know, objections to
this. You know, sometimes I might hear someone say, well, he never listens to me, so why
(21:40):
should I bother? Here's my blunt answer to that. If there's something you want in the
relationship, you're going to need to go first. The easiest trap to fall into is, well, you
know, you're not doing it, so why should I? I want you to do this. And then the other
(22:02):
person says, well, what about you? You don't do that. And we and everyone ends up just
retreating to their corners and waiting for the other person to come out and do something
different. If you want something in a relationship, you've got to go first. Simple as that. Now,
I'm not talking about abusive relationships. I'm not asking you to submit to abusive behavior.
(22:25):
But it is in a typical relationship where we're just, we've reached an impasse. If there's
something you want, then you've got to give it first. Okay. A lot of people will sometimes
tell me I'm uncomfortable sharing my feelings. And let me translate that for you. It's not
(22:49):
the feelings themselves. It is I'm uncomfortable with vulnerability. And many of us have really
good reasons for being uncomfortable with vulnerability. So let me be clear. I'm not
asking you to just do a big vulnerability dump all at one time. It is okay to take little
(23:12):
baby steps. You know, maybe each evening you pick one uncomfortable emotion you felt throughout
the day and you just share it with each other. Today, I felt embarrassed when I spilled my
drink in the break room at work. You know, that is one vulnerable emotion and just share
it. Start light with little things and that is okay. That does not have to become a deep
(23:35):
dark conversation about how you were humiliated as a child for this or that. Now that's probably
a conversation that would be good to have at some point in order to help build empathy
for each other. But you know, not every conversation has to feel like a couple's therapy session.
It is okay to start light with sharing those feelings. Get a list of emotions. Get one
(23:55):
of those simple ones, not that big wheel you see on Facebook with dozens of emotions. Just
start with a simple list of emotions and just pick one each night, share them with each
other. Here's what I felt today. And here's what happened when I felt this. And then here's
another one that I hear quite a bit. We tried this before. It didn't work. Well, let me
(24:17):
say I've heard that before and we did get things to work. So, you know, by the time
people have reached me, they've usually tried a lot of different things. A lot of people
I work with have been to other therapists. They've read other books. They've been to
workshops and they know a lot. But that's not a guarantee that they've actually been
(24:38):
practicing it the way it was intended. That's not a guarantee that they didn't miss something
along the way that could have been really critical. And so I just ask people, well,
you know, what are your options right now? You could continue the status quo or we could
give this a shot and see what happens. You know, there are easy and relatively inexpensive
(25:00):
ways to get started with this process. You know, come see me for one session. Come, you
know, download this resource, whatever, and let's give this a shot. But a lot of people
have tried other things before and they didn't work. That doesn't mean the next thing won't
(25:23):
work. There are a lot of different ways to tackle different problems in our lives and
not every method out there works for every person. I urge you not to give up because
the only other option is to be miserable. And I don't want you to be miserable. So if
you need help with this, give me a call. Reach out to me. I'll be happy to help you with
(25:47):
it. And keep listening. I got a resource for you at the end today that I'll tell you more
about. So it is important that we not give up. It is important that we recognize that
people can change. I have seen people change that their spouses, their partners never thought
they would change. I've seen people be able to do things to be vulnerable in ways that
(26:13):
their loved ones just never thought they would ever hear from them. I've heard people say
things in a session that the other person says it's the first time I've heard that and
it means so much. I never thought I would hear that. Relational listening is how you
get there. Let go of the agenda and be ready just to listen. Start with the basics of attentive
(26:39):
listening and watch your body language. Don't interrupt. Just sit and listen. And then empathetic
listening. What's accurate about what you're hearing from them? What's understandable?
You don't have to agree. Just validate. And then finally, collaborative listening. When
we trust each other, when we know that we're looking out for each other and we can begin
(27:02):
to tackle a problem, even one that we disagree on, without feeling judged just because we
have a disagreement. So relational listening. I do have a resource for you. So check the
show notes. So I made a resource for you on this. I made a PDF, Mastering Relational Listening.
(27:24):
Mastering Relational Listening kind of summarizes a lot of what we talked about today. So if
you go in the show notes or go to brentpeake.com, you can just click on the button for that
and download that free download. And then if you really want to take it further, there's
information in those resources on an online course I have. It's a short mini course. You
(27:45):
can listen to it. It's actually a private podcast feed. So you can just listen to this,
however you want to, called Rephrase Your Relationship. And in that one, I give you
three phrases that I teach everybody I work with. Every couple that I work with, three
phrases that when used sincerely and appropriately will shift the tone in your relationship.
(28:07):
But it starts with the relational listening. So go to the show notes or go to brentpeake.com
and get your free download, Mastering the Art of Relational Listening, and then follow
the links after that. If you want to take it a step further and get the online course,
Rephrase Your Relationship, there's a discount on that right now. It's easy to do. It's not
expensive at all. So go check that out. And I hope you'll do that. So thanks for listening.
(28:34):
This is my first full length episode. And I would welcome your feedback. So go to brentpeake.com
and click on the link where you can send me a message or an email. Would love to hear
your questions. Would love to hear your feedback and your ideas for future sessions on what
we can talk about in these episodes here. So thanks for listening and come back next
(28:56):
time for the Empowered Serenity Podcast.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Empowered Serenity Podcast. I hope our
conversation today has inspired you to embrace your journey toward deeper emotional healing,
empowerment and inner peace. Be sure to check the show notes for any resources that may
have been mentioned in this episode. And don't forget to visit brentpeake.com for additional
(29:20):
resources and information about working with me. If you found value in our discussion,
please share this podcast with others who might benefit and consider subscribing and
leaving a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking transformative change.
And remember, the path to empowered serenity is a journey and you're not alone. Until next
time, take care and keep moving forward with hope and resilience.
(29:48):
The information provided in the Empowered Serenity Podcast is for educational and informational
purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis or treatment.
Always seek the advice of your physician, therapist or other qualified health provider
with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health concerns.
Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something
(30:11):
you have heard on this podcast. If you are experiencing a crisis, please contact your
local emergency services or seek immediate help from a mental health professional. The
views expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the
views of Brent Peak or North Valley Therapy Services.
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