August 14, 2024 • 14 mins
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Could you ever imagine a seemingly ordinary man meticulously planning the brutal murders of his entire family, believing he was saving them from an evil world? Join us as we uncover the chilling saga of John List, whose 1971 massacre of his wife, mother, and three children in their Westfield, New Jersey mansion remains one of America's most haunting family annihilation cases. We'll trace List's journey from a strict, religious upbringing in Michigan, through his military service and financial turmoil, to the fateful day he executed his horrific plan.
Tune in as we dissect the twisted ideology that motivated List, his ability to evade justice for nearly two decades, and the remarkable efforts that eventually led to his capture. Through the lens of forensic artistry and public involvement, you'll see how List's dark narrative unfolded and left a lasting impact. This episode promises a thorough exploration of the unsettling factors that drove him to commit such a heinous crime and a chilling reminder that darkness can lurk in the most unsuspecting places.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Before we begin today's episode, we want to
provide a subject matter warning.
This podcast delves intoreal-life crimes and their often
graphic and disturbing details.
Today's episode containsdiscussions of violence, murder
and other sensitive topics thatmay not be suitable for all
listeners.
We understand that this contentcan be triggering or upsetting
(00:22):
for some, and we urge you toconsider your own well-being as
you listen.
With that said, let's proceedwith today's case.
On a cold evening in December1971, a gruesome discovery was
(01:01):
made in a stately mansion inWestfield, new Jersey.
Nearly a month earlier, johnList had walked into his home
and shot his wife, his motherand his three children before
vanishing without a trace, andthe sprawling home of the List
family, perched atop a hill, wasleft, concealing secrets that
would take authorities and thenation years to unravel.
(01:23):
Would take authorities and thenation years to unravel.
In today's episode, we willdive deep into the disturbing
and perplexing story of JohnList, a man who would go down in
history as one of America'smost notorious family
annihilators.
It's a story of a seeminglyordinary man who harboured dark
secrets and meticulouslyexecuted one of the most
(01:45):
chilling and methodical massmurders in American history.
But before we can get into thehorrific events of that fateful
November night.
We need to start 46 yearsearlier.
Welcome to the End of Reasonpodcast.
(02:15):
John Emil List was born onSeptember 17th 1925, in Bay City
, michigan.
Raised in a strictGerman-speaking household,
john's early life was marked byreligious fervour and discipline
.
His father, an immigrant fromGermany, instilled a strong work
ethic in John, who would laterdescribe his father as an
(02:36):
authoritarian figure who heldhim to high standards.
His father only seemed to dealwith his son through his wife,
referring to him as the boy.
The pressure to live up to hisfather's exacting standards
would later manifest in a tragicand horrifying way.
(03:00):
After serving in the UnitedStates Army during World War II,
john attended the University ofMichigan where he studied
business administration.
In November of 1950, with theKorean War intensifying, john
List was called back to activemilitary service.
During his posting at FortEustace in Virginia, he crossed
paths with Helen Morris Taylor,a widow whose husband had lost
his life in the Korean War.
John and Helen tied the knot onDecember 1, 1951, in Baltimore,
(03:28):
maryland.
The newly formed familyrelocated to Northern California
.
John's accounting skills werehighly valued by the army,
leading to a reassignment to theFinance Corps.
After completing his secondtour in 1952, john transitioned
to the civilian sector.
He began working at anaccounting firm in Detroit and
later assumed the role of anaudit supervisor at a paper
company in Kalamazoo.
It was during this period thathis three children, patricia
(03:52):
Frederick and John Jr, were born.
By 1959, john had madesignificant professional strides
, rising to the position ofgeneral supervisor within the
company's accounting department.
Rising to the position ofgeneral supervisor within the
company's accounting department.
However, helen's struggle withalcoholism led to increasing
instability in their household.
In 1960, john's stepdaughtermarried and moved out of the
(04:15):
family home, where John thenrelocated with the rest of his
family to Rochester, new York,where he had accepted a position
at Xerox.
In 1965, john embarked on a newchapter, becoming the vice
president and comptroller at abank in Jersey City, new Jersey.
With his wife, children andmother, he settled into Breeze
(04:41):
Knoll, a sprawling 19-roomVictorian mansion located at 431
Hillside Avenue in Westfield,new Jersey.
Despite all appearances of anidyllic life, there were
underlying tensions and problems.
John's obsession with religionand financial success put
significant strain on his family.
His rigid, authoritarianpersonality clashed with his
wife Helen's more free-spiritedand artistic nature and in 1971,
(05:06):
at the age of 46, John facedthe devastating loss of his job
at the bank.
Despite his best efforts, hissubsequent job opportunities
proved elusive.
However, the weight ofrevealing this loss to his
family proved unbearable.
Rather than confiding in hisloved ones about the financial
(05:27):
setback, john resorted to acovert approach.
He spent his days at the trainstation reading newspapers,
while diverting funds from hismother's bank accounts to cover
the mortgage.
In the face of mountingfinancial hardship, he staunchly
refused to accept welfareassistance.
This decision wasn't merely amatter of practicality.
(05:49):
It also stemmed from hisunwavering commitment to
preserving his family'sreputation within the community
and upholding the principles ofself-sufficiency that had been
ingrained in him from a youngage, influenced by the values
imparted by his father.
As John's professional lifetook a turn for the worse, his
inability to provide for hisfamily compounded the stress and
(06:10):
conflicts within the householdand, as we will soon discover,
these factors would play asignificant role in the tragic
events that unfolded in November1971.
The morning of November 9th 1971started like any other winter
day.
John dutifully saw to it thathis three children were dropped
off at school, leaving his wifeHelen and his mother Alma in
(06:33):
their Westfield residence.
As he returned home after theschool run, he retrieved two
handguns from his car andquietly entered the home where
he had orchestrated a sinisterplan with meticulous precision.
While his children were atschool, he shot his wife in the
back of the head before shootinghis mother above her left eye,
killing them both.
John waited for his daughterPatricia and son Frederick to
(06:57):
arrive home from school, wherehe would shoot them in the back
of the head.
It's deeply unsettling that,following the heinynus Act, john
managed to remain calm,seemingly going about his daily
routine with an air of normalcy.
After making himself a sandwich, he proceeded to his bank to
close both his and his mother'saccounts.
(07:17):
Then he made his way toWestfield High School to watch
John Jr play in a soccer game.
High school, to watch John Jrplay in a soccer game.
However, the facade of anordinary day shattered when,
after driving John Jr home, johnsubjected his own son to a
barrage of gunshots.
The chilling evidence indicatedthat his son had valiantly
(07:38):
attempted to defend himself.
A tragic moment thatunderscored the horrifying
nature of the crimes thattranspired that day.
Moment that underscored thehorrifying nature of the crimes
that transpired that day.
The crime was eerily calculated, with John leaving behind no
immediate evidence.
After committing these gruesomeacts, john carefully laid the
bodies out in the ballroom onsleeping bags.
(08:04):
He left his mother's body inher apartment in the attic, john
meticulously cleaned themultiple crime scenes and, with
methodical precision, he removedhis own image from all the
family photographs throughoutthe house and turned a radio to
a religious station.
He cancelled all deliveries andcontacted his children's
schools to let their teachersknow that they would be on
vacation for a few weeks.
After these disturbingpreparations, he departed from
(08:26):
the scene and vanished.
It took a month beforesuspicions began to fester among
the neighbours.
The List family had always beenknown for their reclusive
nature, making it somewhattypical not to frequently see
them.
However, as the days and weekspassed and silence persisted in
the once active List household,an uncomfortable unease began to
(08:48):
take hold.
On December 7th, police woulddiscover the family remains in
the mansion.
They also found a five-pagenote from John explaining that
his family was killed out ofmercy to save their souls.
It seemed that John's rigidreligious beliefs, financial
troubles and personal strugglescreated a toxic cocktail that
(09:09):
culminated in the brutal murderof his family.
And yet investigators were leftwith one puzzling question when
had John List gone?
Investigators worked tirelesslyto find John, and while the FBI
was able to locate his carparked at Kennedy International
Airport in New York City.
They weren't able to find him.
Leeds became dead ends andeventually the trail went
(09:33):
completely cold Until astaggering 18 years after the
horrifying events of November1971.
In 1989, new Jersey prosecutorshatched an ingenious plan to
break this perplexing case wideopen.
They enlisted the help offorensic artist Frank Bender.
Frank Bender's challenge Torecreate an aged version of John
(09:56):
List.
Frank Bender created asculpture that left no detail
untouched, from John's nose tohis eyebrows and distinctive
horn-rimmed glasses.
Psychologists theorised thatJohn likely held onto the
glasses as a reminder of betterdays when he was a seemingly
successful man.
When America's Most Wantedaired a special segment on the
(10:19):
John List murders in May 1989, astaggering 22 million viewers
got their first glimpse of FrankBender's remarkable work.
Almost instantly, tips startedpouring in, flooding
investigators with fresh leads.
But one top one seeminglyordinary tip would prove to be
the key.
(10:39):
It came from a woman inRichmond, virginia.
She lived next door to a manwho bore an uncanny resemblance
to the aged sculpture.
But that wasn't all.
This neighbour, named RobertClark, was also an accountant
and active churchgoer.
With this pivotal tip in hand,authorities wasted no time.
(11:00):
They paid a visit to RobertClark's residence, where they
had a conversation with his wife.
It turned out that John hadpulled off an astonishing feat
of deception by seamlesslychanging his identity.
He moved to Colorado using thealias Robert Clark and even as
he settled in Richmond, virginia, he maintained this false
identity with an uncanny levelof success.
(11:25):
Just nine days after America'sMost Wanted aired his case,
police in Virginia arrested JohnList on June 1st 1989, nearly
two decades after the murders.
His capture brought thechilling case back into the
national spotlight.
It was a moment of reckoningfor John as he faced the
consequences of his actions, ofhis actions.
(11:50):
At the subsequent trial, johnList's defence argued that he
was suffering from a deep mentalillness which impaired his
judgement at the time of themurders, and claimed that he
suffered fromobsessive-compulsive personality
disorder.
The jury, however, was unmovedby his defence and in April 1990
, john List was found guilty ofthe murders and sentenced to
five consecutive life terms inprison, with no possibility of
(12:12):
parole.
The capture and conviction ofJohn List marked the conclusion
of a tragic chapter in Americantrue crime history.
The family annihilator hadfinally faced justice, but the
chilling details of the crimesand his extraordinary escape had
left an indelible mark on thenation's psyche.
(12:32):
The legacy of the list murdershighlights the enduring
fascination that society haswith true crime.
Stories, books, documentaries,movies and a hit Netflix series
have all been made about thecase.
People continue to be drawn tothe psychology of perpetrators
and the intricaty web of motivesbehind such horrific acts.
(12:52):
But what became of the ListMansion, the scene of these
gruesome murders?
In a cruel twist of fate, themansion, which once represented
the epitome of suburban success,was transformed into a symbol
of tragedy and infamy.
In the months after the murders, it was destroyed by a symbol
of tragedy and infamy.
In the months after the murders, it was destroyed by a fire.
Although it was officiallyruled arson, it remains unsolved
(13:16):
with no suspects.
On March 21, 2008, john Listdied at the age of 82 while
imprisoned at St Francis MedicalCenter in Trenton, new Jersey.
The List murders present aharrowing tale of family
annihilation that was fuelled bya unique and unsettling set of
(13:36):
motives.
John List's rigid upbringing,financial pressures and
deep-seated religious beliefsconverged to create a perfect
storm within his household.
The shocking decision to takehis family's lives was motivated
by a belief that he was savingtheir souls from the perceived
evil of the world, showcasingthe terrifying power of ideology
(13:59):
and personal demons on thehuman psyche.
The 18-year evasion of justicecame to a remarkable close
through the work of a forensicartist and the public's help,
but the case continues to serveas a haunting reminder that
darkness can hide anywhere, evenin the most ordinary of places,
driven by motives that continueto baffle us and intrigue us.
(14:20):
Thank you for joining us onthis journey through the shadows
of humanity.
On the End of Reason podcast.
(14:41):
As we conclude today's episode,remember that the pursuit of
truth never truly ends.
Until next time, stay vigilant,stay curious and never let go
of reason.
Before we begin today's episode, we want to
provide a subject matter warning.
This podcast delves intoreal-life crimes and their often
graphic and disturbing details.
Today's episode containsdiscussions of violence, murder
and other sensitive topics thatmay not be suitable for all
listeners.
We understand that this contentcan be triggering or upsetting
(00:22):
for some, and we urge you toconsider your own well-being as
you listen.
With that said, let's proceedwith today's case.
On a cold evening in December1971, a gruesome discovery was
(01:01):
made in a stately mansion inWestfield, new Jersey.
Nearly a month earlier, johnList had walked into his home
and shot his wife, his motherand his three children before
vanishing without a trace, andthe sprawling home of the List
family, perched atop a hill, wasleft, concealing secrets that
would take authorities and thenation years to unravel.
(01:23):
Would take authorities and thenation years to unravel.
In today's episode, we willdive deep into the disturbing
and perplexing story of JohnList, a man who would go down in
history as one of America'smost notorious family
annihilators.
It's a story of a seeminglyordinary man who harboured dark
secrets and meticulouslyexecuted one of the most
(01:45):
chilling and methodical massmurders in American history.
But before we can get into thehorrific events of that fateful
November night.
We need to start 46 yearsearlier.
Welcome to the End of Reasonpodcast.
(02:15):
John Emil List was born onSeptember 17th 1925, in Bay City
, michigan.
Raised in a strictGerman-speaking household,
john's early life was marked byreligious fervour and discipline
.
His father, an immigrant fromGermany, instilled a strong work
ethic in John, who would laterdescribe his father as an
(02:36):
authoritarian figure who heldhim to high standards.
His father only seemed to dealwith his son through his wife,
referring to him as the boy.
The pressure to live up to hisfather's exacting standards
would later manifest in a tragicand horrifying way.
(03:00):
After serving in the UnitedStates Army during World War II,
john attended the University ofMichigan where he studied
business administration.
In November of 1950, with theKorean War intensifying, john
List was called back to activemilitary service.
During his posting at FortEustace in Virginia, he crossed
paths with Helen Morris Taylor,a widow whose husband had lost
his life in the Korean War.
John and Helen tied the knot onDecember 1, 1951, in Baltimore,
(03:28):
maryland.
The newly formed familyrelocated to Northern California
.
John's accounting skills werehighly valued by the army,
leading to a reassignment to theFinance Corps.
After completing his secondtour in 1952, john transitioned
to the civilian sector.
He began working at anaccounting firm in Detroit and
later assumed the role of anaudit supervisor at a paper
company in Kalamazoo.
It was during this period thathis three children, patricia
(03:52):
Frederick and John Jr, were born.
By 1959, john had madesignificant professional strides
, rising to the position ofgeneral supervisor within the
company's accounting department.
Rising to the position ofgeneral supervisor within the
company's accounting department.
However, helen's struggle withalcoholism led to increasing
instability in their household.
In 1960, john's stepdaughtermarried and moved out of the
(04:15):
family home, where John thenrelocated with the rest of his
family to Rochester, new York,where he had accepted a position
at Xerox.
In 1965, john embarked on a newchapter, becoming the vice
president and comptroller at abank in Jersey City, new Jersey.
With his wife, children andmother, he settled into Breeze
(04:41):
Knoll, a sprawling 19-roomVictorian mansion located at 431
Hillside Avenue in Westfield,new Jersey.
Despite all appearances of anidyllic life, there were
underlying tensions and problems.
John's obsession with religionand financial success put
significant strain on his family.
His rigid, authoritarianpersonality clashed with his
wife Helen's more free-spiritedand artistic nature and in 1971,
(05:06):
at the age of 46, John facedthe devastating loss of his job
at the bank.
Despite his best efforts, hissubsequent job opportunities
proved elusive.
However, the weight ofrevealing this loss to his
family proved unbearable.
Rather than confiding in hisloved ones about the financial
(05:27):
setback, john resorted to acovert approach.
He spent his days at the trainstation reading newspapers,
while diverting funds from hismother's bank accounts to cover
the mortgage.
In the face of mountingfinancial hardship, he staunchly
refused to accept welfareassistance.
This decision wasn't merely amatter of practicality.
(05:49):
It also stemmed from hisunwavering commitment to
preserving his family'sreputation within the community
and upholding the principles ofself-sufficiency that had been
ingrained in him from a youngage, influenced by the values
imparted by his father.
As John's professional lifetook a turn for the worse, his
inability to provide for hisfamily compounded the stress and
(06:10):
conflicts within the householdand, as we will soon discover,
these factors would play asignificant role in the tragic
events that unfolded in November1971.
The morning of November 9th 1971started like any other winter
day.
John dutifully saw to it thathis three children were dropped
off at school, leaving his wifeHelen and his mother Alma in
(06:33):
their Westfield residence.
As he returned home after theschool run, he retrieved two
handguns from his car andquietly entered the home where
he had orchestrated a sinisterplan with meticulous precision.
While his children were atschool, he shot his wife in the
back of the head before shootinghis mother above her left eye,
killing them both.
John waited for his daughterPatricia and son Frederick to
(06:57):
arrive home from school, wherehe would shoot them in the back
of the head.
It's deeply unsettling that,following the heinynus Act, john
managed to remain calm,seemingly going about his daily
routine with an air of normalcy.
After making himself a sandwich, he proceeded to his bank to
close both his and his mother'saccounts.
(07:17):
Then he made his way toWestfield High School to watch
John Jr play in a soccer game.
High school, to watch John Jrplay in a soccer game.
However, the facade of anordinary day shattered when,
after driving John Jr home, johnsubjected his own son to a
barrage of gunshots.
The chilling evidence indicatedthat his son had valiantly
(07:38):
attempted to defend himself.
A tragic moment thatunderscored the horrifying
nature of the crimes thattranspired that day.
Moment that underscored thehorrifying nature of the crimes
that transpired that day.
The crime was eerily calculated, with John leaving behind no
immediate evidence.
After committing these gruesomeacts, john carefully laid the
bodies out in the ballroom onsleeping bags.
(08:04):
He left his mother's body inher apartment in the attic, john
meticulously cleaned themultiple crime scenes and, with
methodical precision, he removedhis own image from all the
family photographs throughoutthe house and turned a radio to
a religious station.
He cancelled all deliveries andcontacted his children's
schools to let their teachersknow that they would be on
vacation for a few weeks.
After these disturbingpreparations, he departed from
(08:26):
the scene and vanished.
It took a month beforesuspicions began to fester among
the neighbours.
The List family had always beenknown for their reclusive
nature, making it somewhattypical not to frequently see
them.
However, as the days and weekspassed and silence persisted in
the once active List household,an uncomfortable unease began to
(08:48):
take hold.
On December 7th, police woulddiscover the family remains in
the mansion.
They also found a five-pagenote from John explaining that
his family was killed out ofmercy to save their souls.
It seemed that John's rigidreligious beliefs, financial
troubles and personal strugglescreated a toxic cocktail that
(09:09):
culminated in the brutal murderof his family.
And yet investigators were leftwith one puzzling question when
had John List gone?
Investigators worked tirelesslyto find John, and while the FBI
was able to locate his carparked at Kennedy International
Airport in New York City.
They weren't able to find him.
Leeds became dead ends andeventually the trail went
(09:33):
completely cold Until astaggering 18 years after the
horrifying events of November1971.
In 1989, new Jersey prosecutorshatched an ingenious plan to
break this perplexing case wideopen.
They enlisted the help offorensic artist Frank Bender.
Frank Bender's challenge Torecreate an aged version of John
(09:56):
List.
Frank Bender created asculpture that left no detail
untouched, from John's nose tohis eyebrows and distinctive
horn-rimmed glasses.
Psychologists theorised thatJohn likely held onto the
glasses as a reminder of betterdays when he was a seemingly
successful man.
When America's Most Wantedaired a special segment on the
(10:19):
John List murders in May 1989, astaggering 22 million viewers
got their first glimpse of FrankBender's remarkable work.
Almost instantly, tips startedpouring in, flooding
investigators with fresh leads.
But one top one seeminglyordinary tip would prove to be
the key.
(10:39):
It came from a woman inRichmond, virginia.
She lived next door to a manwho bore an uncanny resemblance
to the aged sculpture.
But that wasn't all.
This neighbour, named RobertClark, was also an accountant
and active churchgoer.
With this pivotal tip in hand,authorities wasted no time.
(11:00):
They paid a visit to RobertClark's residence, where they
had a conversation with his wife.
It turned out that John hadpulled off an astonishing feat
of deception by seamlesslychanging his identity.
He moved to Colorado using thealias Robert Clark and even as
he settled in Richmond, virginia, he maintained this false
identity with an uncanny levelof success.
(11:25):
Just nine days after America'sMost Wanted aired his case,
police in Virginia arrested JohnList on June 1st 1989, nearly
two decades after the murders.
His capture brought thechilling case back into the
national spotlight.
It was a moment of reckoningfor John as he faced the
consequences of his actions, ofhis actions.
(11:50):
At the subsequent trial, johnList's defence argued that he
was suffering from a deep mentalillness which impaired his
judgement at the time of themurders, and claimed that he
suffered fromobsessive-compulsive personality
disorder.
The jury, however, was unmovedby his defence and in April 1990
, john List was found guilty ofthe murders and sentenced to
five consecutive life terms inprison, with no possibility of
(12:12):
parole.
The capture and conviction ofJohn List marked the conclusion
of a tragic chapter in Americantrue crime history.
The family annihilator hadfinally faced justice, but the
chilling details of the crimesand his extraordinary escape had
left an indelible mark on thenation's psyche.
(12:32):
The legacy of the list murdershighlights the enduring
fascination that society haswith true crime.
Stories, books, documentaries,movies and a hit Netflix series
have all been made about thecase.
People continue to be drawn tothe psychology of perpetrators
and the intricaty web of motivesbehind such horrific acts.
(12:52):
But what became of the ListMansion, the scene of these
gruesome murders?
In a cruel twist of fate, themansion, which once represented
the epitome of suburban success,was transformed into a symbol
of tragedy and infamy.
In the months after the murders, it was destroyed by a symbol
of tragedy and infamy.
In the months after the murders, it was destroyed by a fire.
Although it was officiallyruled arson, it remains unsolved
(13:16):
with no suspects.
On March 21, 2008, john Listdied at the age of 82 while
imprisoned at St Francis MedicalCenter in Trenton, new Jersey.
The List murders present aharrowing tale of family
annihilation that was fuelled bya unique and unsettling set of
(13:36):
motives.
John List's rigid upbringing,financial pressures and
deep-seated religious beliefsconverged to create a perfect
storm within his household.
The shocking decision to takehis family's lives was motivated
by a belief that he was savingtheir souls from the perceived
evil of the world, showcasingthe terrifying power of ideology
(13:59):
and personal demons on thehuman psyche.
The 18-year evasion of justicecame to a remarkable close
through the work of a forensicartist and the public's help,
but the case continues to serveas a haunting reminder that
darkness can hide anywhere, evenin the most ordinary of places,
driven by motives that continueto baffle us and intrigue us.
(14:20):
Thank you for joining us onthis journey through the shadows
of humanity.
On the End of Reason podcast.
(14:41):
As we conclude today's episode,remember that the pursuit of
truth never truly ends.
Until next time, stay vigilant,stay curious and never let go
of reason.
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