S5 #10 | The Samaritan and the Corruption w/ David Cayley (CBC Ideas)

On this episode of the pod, my guest is David Cayley, a Toronto-based Canadian writer and broadcaster. For more than thirty years (1981-2012) he made radio documentaries for CBC Radio One’s program Ideas, which premiered in 1965 under the title The Best Ideas You’ll Hear Tonight. 

In 1966, at the age of twenty, Cayley joined the Canadian University Service Overseas (CUSO), one of the many volunteer organizations that sprang up in the 1960’s to promote international development. Two years later, back in Canada, he began to associate with a group of returned volunteers whose experiences had made them, like himself, increasingly quizzical about the idea of development. In 1968 in Chicago, he heard a lecture given by Ivan Illich and in 1970 he and others brought Illich to Toronto for a teach-in called “Crisis in Development.” This was the beginning of their long relationship: eighteen years later Cayley invited Illich to do a series of interviews for CBC Radio’s Ideas. 

Cayley is the author of Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey (2022), Ideas on the Nature of Science (2009), The Rivers North of the Future: The Testament of Ivan Illich (2004), Puppet Uprising (2003),The Expanding Prison: The Crisis in Crime and Punishment and the Search for Alternatives (1998), George Grant in Conversation (1995), Northrop Frye in Conversation (1992), Ivan Illich in Conversation (1992), and The Age of Ecology (1990).

Show Notes:

The Early Years with Ivan Illich

The Good Samaritan Story

Falling out of a Homeworld

The Corruption of the Best is the Worst (Corruptio Optimi Pessima)

How Hospitality Becomes Hostility

How to Live in Contradiction

Rediscovering the Future

The Pilgrimage of Surprise

Friendship with the Other

Homework:

Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey (Penn State Press) - Paperback Now Available!

David Cayley’s Website

The Rivers North of the Future (House of Anansi Press)

Ivan Illich | The Corruption of Christianity: Corruptio Optimi Pessima (2000)

Charles Taylor: A Secular Age

Transcript:

Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome, David, to the End of Tourism Podcast. It's a pleasure to finally meet you.

David: Likewise. Thank you.

Chris: I'm very grateful to have you joining me today. And I'm curious if you could offer our listeners a little glimpse into where you find yourself today and what the world looks like for you through the lenses of David Cayley.

David: Gray and wet. In Toronto, we've had a mild winter so far, although we did just have some real winter for a couple of weeks. So, I'm at my desk in my house in downtown Toronto. Hmm.

Chris: Hmm. Thank you so much for joining us, David. You know, I came to your work quite long ago.

First through the book, The Rivers North of the Future, The Testament of Ivan Illich. And then through your long standing tenure as the host of CBC Ideas in Canada. I've also just finished reading your newest book, Ivan Illich, An Intellectual Journey. For me, which has been a clear and comprehensive homage [00:01:00] to that man's work.

And so, from what I understand from the reading, you were a friend of Illich's as well as the late Gustavo Esteva, a mutual friend of ours, who I interviewed for the podcast sh