July 12, 2025 • 36 mins
Skip Wilson: The Secret to Scalable Advertising Execution Without Tech Overload
The Entreprenudist Podcast https://entreprenudist.com On this episode of The Entreprenudist Podcast, we sit down with Skip Wilson, CEO of DRAFT Media Partners, to discuss why empathy and operational excellence—not just technology—are the real engines of sustainable success in advertising. With 100+ clients across four locations, Skip shares exactly how his team builds systems that scale, deliver measurable results, and keep humans—not just tools—at the center of every campaign.
🎯 In this conversation, we explore: -What truly makes an advertising company successful -What separates great campaigns from “just good enough” -Why empathy is more powerful than your tech stack -How to build scalable, human-centered systems that don’t overwhelm -Advice for marketers feeling burnt out by execution overload Whether you're a marketing professional, agency owner, or entrepreneur, this episode offers practical insights that can help you simplify your systems and amplify your results—without losing your sanity.
---------------------- About Skip Wilson: Skip Wilson is the founder and CEO of DRAFT Media Partners, an advertising execution company that helps over 100 clients across four locations streamline marketing operations and get real results. Skip’s journey began at 16 as a copywriter, chasing a crush and landing a creative career. He evolved into a web developer, worked with CNN’s iReport, and later helped build Clear Channel’s digital division before serving as VP of Digital Media at iHeartMedia for over a decade. Skip is also a bestselling author and host of The Advertising Podcast. Under his leadership, DRAFT Media Partners was awarded “Most Intuitive Software Developer” in 2023 and “Best Marketing Software Developer” in 2024 at the Innovation in Business MarTech Awards. Despite 20+ years in the industry, Skip never planned on a marketing career—he simply kept solving problems until marketing found him. He brings an empathetic, people-first approach to advertising and believes that understanding the human objective behind every campaign is the real secret to success.
------------------------ About the Host: Randolph Love III, is the Founder and President of, ShieldWolf Strongholds, a wealth protection company that specializes in providing Business Owners, Franchise Owners, and Retirees with high level Business Exit Planning, Retirement Income Planning, and Tax Free Cash Value Life Insurance education as a Certified IUL Master. He is a Partner and Consultant with The Franchise Consulting Company; one of the most renowned American owned franchise consulting companies in the world. He is the Author of the forthcoming Financial Literacy book, "The Miracle Money Vehicle: How To Make Money Make Babies;" which gives individuals and business owners a step by step guide on what they need to do to have the option to retire, or exit their current position in less than 5-10 years, with properly structured, and funded Trusts and Tax Strategies. Also, he is the host of, "The Entreprenudist Podcast: The Place To Hear Real Entrepreneurs and Business Owners BARE IT ALL;" ranked in the TOP 10% of podcasts for Business Owners and Entrepreneurs by ListenNotes.com. 👉 Discover how to protect your wealth today at https://shieldwolfstrong.com
------------------------------- 📌Hosted by Randolph Love III, ChFC®, The Entreprenudist Podcast is a platform where real entrepreneurs and business owners bare it all. Ranked in the top 10% of business podcasts, it shares unfiltered stories, challenges, and triumphs, providing valuable insights for aspiring and seasoned business leaders alike. 🎧 Tune in and get inspired at 🌐https://entreprenudist.com
📌If you’re a marketing professional or entrepreneur tired of chasing shiny objects and want a partner to help execute with clarity, visit 🌐www.draftadverti
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Welcome to another episode of TheEntrepreneur Podcast, the place
to hear real entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, bear it all.
I am your host, Randolph Love iii.
And as always, we have a special guest, aentrepreneur that's gonna do what we say.
Uh, that they do.
A little bit about our guests.
(00:33):
Uh, skip Wilson is the founder andCEO of Draft Media Partners, an
advertising execution company thathelps over a hundred client clients
across four locations, streamlinemarketing operations to get real results.
Skip's journey began at 16 asa copywriter chasing a crush
(00:54):
and landing a creative career.
He evolved into a web developer.
Work with CNN's I report and laterhelp build, uh, clear Channel's
digital division before servingas VP of Digital Media at High
Heart Media for over a decade.
Skip is also a bestselling authorand host of the advertising
(01:17):
podcast under his leadership.
Draft Media Partners was awardedmost intuitive software developer
in 2023 and best marketing softwaredeveloper in 2024 at the Innovation
and Business MarTech Awards.
Despite 20 plus years in the industry,skip never planned on a marketing career.
(01:41):
He simply kept solving problemsuntil marketing found him.
He brings in.
Empathetic people firstapproach to advertising.
And he believes that understandingthe human objective behind every
campaign is the real secret to success.
Please skip, who areyou and what do you do?
(02:05):
Man, I, uh, was, uh, thatwas, that was pretty solid.
That was, uh, that was pretty spot on.
I, I would say that I'm someone who hasbumbled and stumbled my way along through.
What it's been a, uh, what it'sturned out to be a, a good life.
Mm, mm-hmm.
You fell for it sounds like.
Yeah, right.
Pretty much.
Mm-hmm.
And it's funny how it is, you know,uh, most people when we are raised
(02:29):
going through the traditionalschool system, we're taught to avoid
failure at any and every cause.
However, uh, successfulentrepreneurs know that failure
isn't the opposite of success.
It's a part of the steps.
Oh yeah, no, for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it was, uh, I, in a lot of ways, Imean, I went to school to be a journalist.
(02:50):
I wanted to be, that was what Iwanted to do, was to be a writer.
And you know, looking back now, I cansay, well, I was never very good at that.
And so I don't know why I evenwanted to do that, but at the
time I was like, you know, that'smarketing was just sort of the.
Well, I've got this little webdesign company and it's doing
okay, but that's not my real thing.
I really want to do this right?
Or um, you know, yes, sure, I'll gowork for this company for a little
(03:12):
while, but that's not my real thing.
I really want to do this and that.
That's how I made my way through basicallymy whole career, until finally realizing,
wait, actually I'm good at this thing.
Why don't I just do this thing atthe marketing and advertising world?
Mm. Thi this is my real thing.
I'm, I'm gonna do this, this until,until just hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, right.
(03:32):
Exactly.
You know, once you get on your, like,uh, into your second decade of doing
something, it's like, you know, eventuallyyou just gotta sort of be like, okay,
actually I guess this is my thing.
Right.
But absolutely.
I, I, and I can relate to you with that.
Is there nothing that you knownow, uh, after so many decades, uh,
multiple decades in marketing, thatyou wish you knew in the beginning?
(03:55):
Yeah, I mean I definitely think,uh, that everything with me,
with timing worked out well.
I mean, I was just startingas a freelancer, right?
As WordPress was becoming a thing.
And so that was just purely fortunate.
Timing was the main reasonfor my success there.
And then I was justleaving college, right?
As uh, companies were starting tobuild their own, you know, time
(04:17):
Warner was building their user,user generated content platform.
And then that's how Igot with Time Warner and.
By heart.
So it was all, I would say that I'vebeen very fortunate timing wise, um,
that makes it look like I had thisgrand master plan the whole time.
But, um, it wasn't my plan anyway.
There may, there may have beenone, but it wasn't my plan.
It's not, and it was, uh, looking back,I think I, I do wish that I had sort
(04:42):
of, uh, I don't know, enjoyed whereI was at more, I was always focused
on getting to that next thing, right?
And so that, that's, but career wise,I mean, as far as business wise.
Uh, my biggest changes would be, youknow, there were t definitely when I was
starting off, uh, there were, when I wasjust starting in my, like leadership roles
and management roles, I. I was very, uh,nervous about the fact that I was like
(05:04):
21, 20 2-year-old, like department head.
And, uh, I was a jerk to be,to put it bluntly, I spent like
two years being a jerk manager.
And I, those, those two years are theonly time that I would look at my, like,
professionally that I look at myself andI'm like, nah, I regret those two years.
But, but, uh, it worked out okay,but I would've hated to work with me.
And, uh, anyway, that wasa short lived little stint.
(05:27):
I spent two years being a jerkbefore I fixed it, I think, man,
listen to what you say, skip.
I would say you're almost onyour last reincarnation, man.
I, I would say the nets go around, you'reprobably going to ascend to a higher
dimension because it is, what, whatyou're saying is, uh, it, you seem very
self-aware and, and it seems like eventhough, 'cause uh, I, I've, I've dealt
(05:51):
with different people on different levels,different socioeconomical levels, and, uh.
If.
If people say that jerks don'tget progress, you are wrong.
Jerks do get progress.
However, they don't get as much progressas the people working under collaboration.
It might seem in comparison that the jerkssucceeds, but really the collaborator.
(06:18):
The one who brings in all, uh, takesin all the data and then uses that data
to, uh, e express themselves throughnot just internally, but externally.
Those are the ones who win.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, exactly.
It's all about, you know, I, I,I'm definitely a believer that
people can change, uh, becauseI am one and I have changed.
And, uh, but you know, I thinkthat, uh, but it does take being,
(06:42):
it does take being self-aware.
It does take a willingness tobe, you know, willing to say.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not right all the time.
And, uh, that's something that ifyou're wrong, as often as I am, you
have the, for you have the, uh, Ihave the fortune of proving myself
wrong enough every day to, uh, remindmyself that I'm not right all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I think that self-awareness, uh,top down is something that separates a
(07:07):
great company from a good enough company.
Is there nothing else?
That you would say that separates agreat company from a good enough company?
I do.
So I almost, it, it'strue of ad campaigns too.
I think it's true of companies.
I think it's true of peopleand it's true of ad campaigns.
The, the difference between good andgreat ones is the willingness to look
at the data, look at the reality,and then make changes accordingly.
(07:31):
And, uh, as long as you're alwaysdoing that, no one ever makes the, you
know, if you're a company, if you'rean entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur.
You're constantly making guesses.
You're constantly making decisions.
You're not gonna get theright ones all the time.
That's impossible, right?
So the second best thing is to alwaysbe right the second time around.
(07:51):
And that, I think, is more possible,that I think is more realistic.
So, um, always, uh, knowing where you'regoing, knowing where you, what you want
to build and what you want to do, andthen constantly being willing to check
your progress against what that thing is.
As long as you do those two things,I think you can succeed at anything.
And, and you picked, youpicked up where I was heading.
(08:11):
Because regardless of what your companyis, it, it really depends on the narrative
of the campaign that you portray.
So would you, are youconnecting those two things?
Like when you run a campaign for someone,is it, um, alright, we need to enter this
(08:32):
knowing that we could be completely wrong?
Oh, yeah.
And willing to make a, a 180.
We actually now formally put thatinto our, we break everything
down into like a sprint system.
So like, uh, the, we, we call it sprinttwo is the first two weeks of a campaign.
We actually go into every campaignassuming that there is gonna
(08:53):
be some missed marks in there.
And most agencies do that.
I mean, most agencies do.
If you, I mean any advertiser thattalks about AB testing and those types
of things, that's what they're doing.
The reason they're AB testing is'cause they're saying, we don't know
what the answer is, so we're gonnasee which of these is, uh, what most
companies don't do is formalize thatto the point of being willing to say.
(09:13):
Um, we don't know what, we absolutelydon't know what the answer is, but
we know where we're trying to get, weknow what the average click-through
rate and the average response rate is.
And as long as you know thosethings, you know, when you're falling
below average in an area, and thenit becomes very easy to fix it.
It's like fixing like a carengine or something like that.
It's like, okay, I know the gas isgetting from here to here, but it's
not getting from here to there.
(09:34):
And so it becomes very easy to fix thingswhen you know where they should be.
Ah, and, and not only does it become.
Seems like not only does it becomevery easy to fix things, but if
you're checking it in a, a maticfashion, like you're saying, it's,
it's the, it's the difference.
(09:54):
Like let's say you, you go to cut on yourcar and your, your car doesn't cut on.
Uh, instead of just replacing your entireengine, you might check the battery
first, or yeah, you might check the sparkplugs, or you might check the alternator
or you might check the fuel pump.
It sounds like what you're sayingis when you, uh, when you do it
the right way, uh, not only is itmore effective, but probably more
(10:18):
cost, uh, cost beneficial as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's always easier to, unless you'vejust completely missed the mark, it's
almost always easier to fix a currentcampaign than it is to start fresh.
Mm-hmm.
And that's true of employees.
That's true of ad campaigns.
It's true of almost everything in life.
Right?
It's easier, almost always easierto fix what you've currently got
(10:41):
going on than it is to start fresh.
And you, and you mentioned something ABtesting for the people who don't know what
that is, what, what, what is a AB testand, and why, and why is that beneficial?
So, AB testing, uh, just meansrunning multiple, usually creatives.
Usually when uh, people aresaying it, they're talking
about different types of ads.
So they're, it can be different images,so having two or three different
(11:05):
images, you know, if you're a rooferand you don't know whether this
picture of the roof is gonna work.
Or whether the picture of the rooffrom the street level is gonna work.
Uh, then you put, do a campaign,put both those a images in there,
and then that would be AB testing.
Um, but you can ab test everything.
You can ab test the landing pagesthat you're sending people to.
You maybe test the images.
You can maybe test the words,you can test the audiences.
(11:27):
You know, is it better to targethomeowners or is it better to target?
You know, homeowners of homes in specificage ranges, you know, homeowner homes 10
years and older or something like that.
Um, so you should betesting each piece of it.
Um, and, but by doing that, you're,it does take the, uh, the willingness
to be able to say, we don't knowwhat the answer is, so we're
(11:48):
gonna find out what the answer is.
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah.
Uh, uh.
The more you know, the more youknow, the more you don't know.
And Exactly, and depending onwho you talk talking to, the data
can be twisted different ways.
And, and even with the AB testing,something as simple as having just
that house, just the front elevation,an image or just that same front
(12:13):
elevation, but with two homeownersin the front, like it, it could,
the, the, it's drastically different.
And sometimes you don'teven know why one gets more.
Response than the other.
But if you didn't AB tested,you would've never known.
And when I was, when I, you know, therewas a time where I was like, well,
let's find out what the answer is.
Is it better to have people in the ador there not have people in the ads?
(12:34):
Or is it better to do this or that?
And what I found is that it reallyis different based off of like
almost every company is different.
That's why you do almost have totreat each campaign on its own because
different zip codes are different.
Different, I mean, there's so manydifferent factors that it's just
cheaper rather than trying to guessand get it right the first time.
Cheaper to run two types ofads and see which one's getting
(12:55):
better, getting better response.
Absolutely.
It's not like you haveto do that for years.
You just do that for a couple months.
Right.
And then you make the chance Exactly.
To get the data and Exactly.
For somebody like you that'sbeen doing this for, uh, multiple
decades, it's very simple, but,you know, simple is subjective.
What, what can somebody do?
(13:16):
Like if they were trying to in.
Implement these changes that you, youand your team would suggest into their
operating system, but they want to reducethe complexity is, is there nothing
that they can do to help mitigate that?
Yeah.
Um, absolutely.
An advertising campaign is nothing morethan a specific way to get a particular
(13:42):
message to a particular audience toget them to do something specific.
So to, to simple, to simplify things.
I actually get three index orthree, um, not index cards, but
those little yellow sticky notes.
Get three of those.
Write one of them message,write one of them.
Audience.
And then write one of them, uh,action, and then fill that out and
(14:03):
boom, you just got a, you know,what would, what you would pay an ad
agency 50, $60,000 to do the planningfor you've, you've just done it.
It's like, who, you know, what do Iwant to, who do I want to talk to?
What am I trying to get them to do?
And then what do I need to say tothem to get them to do that thing?
If you answer that, thenit really doesn't matter.
You know, usually with, uh, withentrepreneurs, with, with especially
(14:25):
smaller businesses, I'm asked questionslike, um, is Facebook a good idea?
You know, is meta a good idea for me?
Or is AdWords a good idea for me?
And the answer is always, itdepends on who your audience is,
what you're trying to say and whatyou're trying to get 'em to do.
'cause if you're a roofer, then.
You know, and you're goingafter homeowners to try to get
them to get a roofing quote.
(14:46):
Google's a great way to do that.
But the reality is, is youcould do that on any platform.
You could also do it on meta.
Um, it, it's, it doesn't,Google's gonna be, I, I think,
more efficient by, but the.
When you talk about things likeefficiency, you're talking about a one
or 2% difference in campaign performance.
The reality is, is you can makealmost any platform work as long
(15:08):
as you make sure that you're sayingthe right thing to the right people.
Mm. And that's true.
Like you, you, you gottafind your audience and, um.
And seems like what I'm gathering fromyou, once you know your audience, you,
you must know how to engage with themusing, using your roofer, um, analogy.
(15:29):
Uh, going, going along with that, theperson trying to sell a roof doesn't
need a roof right now, so they're notnecessarily their target demographic.
Yeah.
Uh, how does somebody, whether they arethe company or the marketing professional
working with the company, how do theygather this empathy of understanding
(15:52):
what the other person is going through?
Uh, not only how do they attain thisempathy, but why is, is that empathy not
more important than their tech stack?
What, what they're seeing in this data.
So the, there's many ways to do it.
And one, I mean, you can send surveysout to your customer list, you can do,
you can, uh, do those types of things.
(16:12):
Uh, we live in a world where like youcan ask chat bt and those types of
things, and those are helpful tools.
You can be like, Hey, what are peoplesaying in this, in this in field?
But one of my favorite ways, the onethat I don't think we use often enough,
uh, as entrepreneurs is angry customers.
When you get an angry customer.
That is a goldmine in my opinion, becausethat is somebody who's gonna tell you
everything that's wrong about yourmessaging, everything that is different,
(16:35):
what they wish you had done differently.
That's like, uh, that'sinvaluable information.
So when you get that cranky, uh,willing to complain about anything,
person on the phone, ask them, youknow, Hey, what do you not like
about the roofing process in general?
Tell me like, what, youknow, what, what went wrong?
Not only with us, but what wentwrong when you were looking?
Um, that, uh, angry cranky.
(16:57):
An angry, cranky old person that's willingto hang on the phone for 20 minutes.
That's, that's worth gold.
But, uh.
Does the business owner leverage?
All right, so, uh, let's, let's,let's keep going with this analogy.
Um, I, on your house, uh, maybe the crew.
(17:19):
Didn't, um, didn't clean up thenails and the debris as, as, as
well as we would've wanted them to.
And once you notice that debrisin your bushes as a homeowner, it,
it triggered you to start lookingfor other things that are wrong.
So does the business owner.
(17:41):
First, fix the problem, then ask,or do they ask while the customer
is in their, their, their heat,just to get the most, the closest,
uh, accurate, uh, credible data.
I would, you know, you do haveto sort of appease them a little
bit, so it's like, you know, oh,hey, I hear what you're saying.
(18:01):
That's, that's awful.
We're, we're gonna fix that.
Do you mind if I ask youabout these other things?
Then, boom, you can ask 'emanything because I would do
it kind of in the moment.
Also, there's certain, there'speople that will complain and
there's people that won't complain.
When they are self-identifying as the kindof person that will complain, boom, that's
somebody that you wanna ask a surveyfor right there, right then and there.
You wanna be like, alright,and what else did you not like?
Well, you know, because then that's whenthey're gonna tell you, and you know what,
(18:23):
I didn't wanna do business with you guysanyway because of this, this, and this,
and all of this is going, you know, sothat's, you wanna get all of that out and,
and also tell it about the competitors.
They'll start saying, well, you, youwere the third guy we got a quote
from and we didn't like them eitherbecause of this, this, and this.
Oh, what are you, what did, whatdid you not like about them?
Okay, got it.
Yeah, right, exactly.
(18:43):
And, and then, you know,and then just keep it going.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I, no, uh, do, do you hear me or skip?
Am I going in or out?
Yes.
Uh, you, you clicked it, uh, messedup a little bit, but you were good.
I think I heard the whole thing.
I think I heard you most of the time.
(19:04):
Perfect.
Perfect, perfect.
So let's say, alright, you are thebest marketing partner in the world.
Uh, any company, uh, any industrywould love to work with you.
Mm-hmm.
And you do what you saidyou were going to do.
Uh, you bring a lot of eyeballs tothem and so much business comes in.
(19:36):
How important is the operationsof the company to what you're
doing as a marketing, uh, partner?
So, I, one of the things that I, I wouldsay get not in trouble for is the wrong
word, but one of the things that I, my.
Business partner and my team call me outon all the time is getting too far into
(19:57):
the operations of a business because I,to me it is all one, it's all one, you
know, it's two sides of the same coin.
Yeah.
Because we have, uh, if they'renot, if the leads aren't converting
into business or if it's notpaying for itself in the long run.
Whether we are getting the cancellation,'cause the ad campaign failed or
whether we're getting a cancellation.
'cause the business failed,both are cancellations.
(20:19):
Right.
And, uh, so it, it is, it's,it's incredibly important.
And you'd be surprised how often,um, now some of our, some of
our clients are like governmentgrants and those types of things.
And for those, that's, that'smoney that's just gone.
Right?
They don't care about ROI, but forthe vast majority of our clients.
Um, you'd be surprised how manycampaigns we do where we've, you
(20:42):
know, where we're like, okay, hey,you got a hundred leads last month.
Tell me what happened with those.
And we get a response to the effectof, well, we haven't called them,
we haven't done anything with them.
Those sort of things.
I mean, it happens a, a decent amountand it's, it's frustrating 'cause
it's like, well, you know, what canwe do to help you out with that?
And so, um, you know, that's partof why you, you'd mentioned, uh,
(21:03):
the cr, the CRM you used, uh, at thestart of the call before we recorded.
So that's part of why we playaround with each of those is so
that we can, uh, help address that.
'cause it's like, okay, well ifyou're getting a bunch of leads
and you're not responding to them,let me show you this and this tool
that has nothing to do with us.
But will at least help you make surethat you automate the responses to
the people that are filling stuff out.
(21:25):
Um, because there are so many greattools out there that make those the,
you know, 'cause I get it, if you area one or two person business, it's hard
to follow up on, you know, leads, uh,you know, or those types of things.
And so.
But we do live in a day and age whereyou can automate 99% of that follow up.
So make sure you're doing that.
Oh yeah.
Uh uh, one of the things that separateshumans from the A, from most animals,
(21:51):
you know, other than opposing thumbs,is our ability to use tools and even to.
Scientists when testing the intelligenceof an animal against another animal, they
see which one will use the tool first.
Uh, and it seems like, uh, uh, you have,uh, uh, you know, uh, they say a prophecy
(22:15):
is often confused with wi uh, wisdom.
Uh, if you are a very wise person, peoplewill swear that you can see the future.
Like, nah, I just, I justknow that if I don't.
Take the time to helpyou with your operations.
Eventually, you're not gonna be able toafford my services anymore for marketing,
(22:39):
so I'm gonna proactively save both of us.
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's it.
This is either gonna end this monthor gonna keep on going this month.
No point in doing it.
Three more months.
Right.
But, uh, okay.
So.
Based off the conversations thatyou and I had, like I wasn't joking.
(23:00):
I, I truly believe that peopleare on a path, and when you meet
people at different stages intheir development, regardless of
what you believe, some people haveabundance mindsets, some people have
scarcity mindsets, and depending onwhether it's abundance or scarce.
There's usually other traitsthat go with that abundance.
(23:23):
Most people that have an abundance mindsettypically have a live and let live, uh,
type of, of, of way of, of doing things.
Right.
Right.
Uh, so let's say youare a marketing person.
You have an abundance mindset.
You've listened to this podcast,you, you got some tips from Skip.
(23:44):
How do you keep from being overwhelmedwith the execution of all of these things?
Because, uh, the referrals are gonna comeslamming in once you treat one co company.
Good.
Second company, good.
Oh, not only do they help us withmarketing, but they also give us,
uh, viable advice on operations.
Of course, I'm gonna referthem to different people.
(24:05):
Uh, how does a person keep frombecoming overwhelmed in this scenario?
Um, well, I mean, you've got it.
So it's all about leverage, right?
You can either leverage, uh, capital,which is when you hire somebody,
uh, that, so that's one way to doit, is to be like, you know what?
I'm gonna hire an advertising expert.
Um, that's the right one.
No, I'm just kidding.
(24:26):
The, the, the other, the other option.
Yeah.
Right, exactly.
Um, and then the other, the otheroption would be, well then you're
gonna average, then you're gonnaleverage like your own labor, which
is when you start learning stuff.
There is a ton of great resources,um, on advertising and marketing.
I will say though, if you are gonnago down the, um, self-education rabbit
(24:48):
hole in terms of like watching YouTubeand those types of things mm-hmm.
I think that's fine for.
The entry points for advertising, whichis mostly Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, I IT
for those platforms, for the social mediaplatforms and for the search platforms.
I do think those are fine.
Those are great places to test.
If you start getting much beyondthat, I would actually recommend
(25:09):
hiring someone else, but.
The easiest way to keep fromgetting overwhelmed is to
remember what you're doing.
All you're doing is is thinking of a fancyway to get some message to some audience,
to get them to do something specific.
So as long as you have a veryclear, here's the thing I'm
trying to get them to do.
Here's who I want to take that action,and then here's what I would say to them.
(25:32):
Then I think it becomes a lot less over,a lot less, you know, overwhelming.
It's, it's actually fairly, usuallyfairly simple and, you know, going,
setting up an ad campaign in Googleright now is, it's never been easier.
Um, now yes, there's a big differencebetween somebody who's been doing it
for 20 years would set up an ad campaignand somebody who's just starting out.
(25:55):
But that said.
Just starting out is a million timesbetter than it was even three or four
years ago in terms of the ad space.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's, you know, with now youcan in an afternoon have a pretty
decent ad campaign set up, so Oh yeah.
Um, just don't, just, uh, don'tforget who you're talking to and
what you're trying to get 'em to do.
As long as you get thosetwo things hammered in the
(26:17):
rest of, it's pretty simple.
Uh, now I know that what you're, whatyou're sharing is groundbreaking, but
it's, it is like one of those things of,um, for example, if you give a baby a
set of keys, no matter a keys to a car.
(26:42):
No matter how smart this babyis, it cannot drive that car.
The, you can have the most intelligentbaby in the world, but his or
her feet cannot reach the pedal.
Right, right.
And yes.
Um.
You are a 20 plus year professional, andyes, these people have tools available to
(27:05):
them, like a set of keys, but some of themfeet might not be able to push the pedal.
What makes your company so successful?
Like e, E?
What separates in, in your mind?
What are, what's, what's somethingthat separates, whether it's a
somebody just starting out or they'vebeen doing it just as long as you,
(27:27):
what differentiates you from theother people who do what y'all do?
Uh, well, what makes the, what makesmy company, I'd say different or is
that we are, um, draft, originallya draft stands for Dynamic Response
Advertising Forecast Technology.
Basically we built a, uh, the abilityto forecast ad results based off of.
(27:48):
Who your ad, what your ad spend is, orwhat your ad spend should be and what
your lead goal is, sales goals, et cetera.
And then it'll actually come back witha media mix on and all those things.
So, I mean, a big part of whatmakes us as a company different
is our tech stack and the, um, aswell as we're a fairly small team.
We're a very experienced team,though that, so, you know, we're
(28:10):
only about 10 people strong, but.
We're able to Also, most of ourclients we don't work with directly.
Most of 'em are through, uh, thebackend of other ad agencies.
And so that allows us to be, um, kindof hyper-focused on the paid ad space.
But, um, in terms so we're ableto predict ad results better and
(28:30):
really put together and give you avery objective, like, here's what
your ad campaign should be doing.
We call it building ad systemsas opposed to ad campaigns like
building a, a reliable, repeatable.
Lead generation system usually, um,or e-commerce sales system, depending
on what the business's goal is.
Um, if you're doing it as a, you know,in, as your, that's what makes the company
(28:55):
different as far as doing it yourself,keeping the fundamentals in, in check.
And then I would stick to Google Meta.
I would, that's, that wouldbe my, that would be my tip.
Stick to those two platforms.
Okay.
And, uh, take a piece of paper,try to figure out what would I
need to say to somebody to get themto do this thing that's gonna get
you further than most businessesthat are doing the ads themselves.
(29:15):
Just that little tip alone.
It.
That's interesting.
So it, what would you say is the reason?
Because, are you treating, uh, Googleand meta almost like a blue chip stock?
Like so for let's, for example.
Yeah.
What I mean by thatis, uh, as an investor.
You can invest in a very,you know, unknown stocks and
(29:39):
it could skyrocket for you.
Right?
But it also, but statisticallyspeaking, if it's a very unknown and
you like it's brand new, no, no, no.
You know, no references.
It may plummet.
Whereas you can put money into a bluechip stock, like a, you know, like
one of the well-known, like the Wal,like the Walmarts and stuff like that.
(30:00):
Right?
And the money is almost guaranteedto grow, but it's not gonna
grow as, yeah, you're getting.
Right.
So are you, that's great analogy.
You treat meta and Google as ifthey're a blue tip platform for
marketing, whereas, alright.
Yeah, you can go other places andyeah, you might skyrocket with
(30:20):
like a new app, but Meta and Googleare the proven, uh, standard.
Yeah, I think that's, that'sa perfect analogy for sure.
It's, they're very hard platformsto mess up, like it's hard to do
wrong, um, that, especially Google,especially search, especially
Google, very hard to do a bad job of.
But yeah, you're, you're likelygonna get a two to three X return,
(30:43):
which, you know, two to three X roas,which comparing it to SOX sounds
great, but you keep in mind that.
We're talking about top linerevenue, not net revenue, but mm-hmm.
So you're likely gonna gonna get atwo to three x, uh, roas, you're not
likely gonna get a 10 or 15 X ROAS offof putting 500 bucks into, into Google.
So, yeah, I think that's a,that's a perfect analogy.
(31:05):
Um, whereas, you know, if we take a. A10, $15,000 campaign, we take it and we
put that across ot, like Hulu and OTTand those types of things, and then back
it up with like a direct mail campaign.
And you know, when we get to wherewe're five or six platforms deep, you
very much can have a 10 x uh, roas.
I mean, that's very, very realistic.
Depending on your business.
(31:26):
Go into the operationalside there for a second.
But, um, the, uh, so yeah, I mean, Ithink that's, that's the perfect analogy.
The reason I would start withthose, if you're doing your
own, they're hard to mess up.
And, but they're also not gonna, youknow, they're li they are better for
generating just more consistent returns.
(31:47):
Absolutely.
And, uh, when you're not, 'cause Imean, you're very su successful, uh,
in your corporate, um, career, as wellas, uh, building a great reputation,
uh, in this space when you're not, um,changing the world, the marketing world.
Like what do you do for vacation?
What do you do for fun?
(32:07):
Yeah, so I have, I have, I havethree i a wife and three kids.
And, uh, so usually I'm, uh,usually with them at some point.
They all have their, they're at the agewhere they all have their own various,
like sports and hobbies and those things.
So driving them around a lot, I would sayis, is a big part of my life right now.
And, uh, taking 'em to their variousactivities and then, uh, going
(32:28):
vacation, those types of things.
Oh yeah.
Family man.
I know you, uh, you mentioned,uh, recently you attended
a, uh, a theme park did.
Yeah.
Are you express pass type of guy,or, or what do you stand in line?
What do you like?
Very much, very much the express pass.
Especially since, you know, taking a,taking a vacation as an entrepreneur
means something very different thanit does, uh, as, as any other type.
(32:49):
You know, I'm, when I'm takinga vacation, that means I'm
taking my family on vacation.
While I sit in the room and do workfor three or four hours of each day.
Right.
That's a day off for, for me.
Um, so that is the entrepreneur,the entrepreneur life.
So yes, when I am, uh, when I'm inthe parks, I definitely going in, uh,
all in on the, um, on all the extras.
(33:10):
'cause yeah, I don't like, Idon't like waiting in line.
I'm a big park, open parkclo for Disney in particular.
I'm a big, uh, park open, park close fan.
Those are the, that's how youavoid the, uh, that's how you
avoid the lines for cheap.
I. But, uh, ah, this mangot strategy for everything.
So it sounds like you're saying ifyou're going to the park, are you saying
when you sold Park open, park close?
That means, uh, 'cause I'm not,I'm, you know, I haven't been
(33:33):
to a theme park in a while.
Are you saying get there early aspossible or get there late as possible?
Exactly.
Either one of those, or in ourcase, we're usually doing both.
We're there, you know, 11:00 AMand earlier, and then we dip.
For the middle part of theday, that's when you rest
and recoup or do other stuff.
Then you get back about six orseven and stay there till close.
That's, that's the way to do it.
(33:53):
You avoid the heat of the day, thecrowd of the day, and the lines.
Ah, man, you too.
Good, man.
I'm, uh, please, uh, send yourinvoice to me for giving me that.
I'm gonna check, check that out.
And, and, and lastquestion for you, uh, skip.
Um, if you were to envision yourselfstanding on top of a mountain.
(34:14):
With a hero's pose, as in I did it.
This is what I set out to do.
I did it.
What does that look like?
You know, until, uh.
That means that I would've, I would,for me to do that, I would have
to solve all the world's problems.
And, uh, and, uh, is, and you havethe perfect bus business or multiple
(34:37):
businesses, uh, really focus on justone, but at least one successful company.
Solve all of our politicalissues and then solve all of,
uh, humanities issues at large.
Until that happens, I'm not,I'm not striking that pose yet.
I'm gonna keep, I'm gonnakeep climbing that mountain.
I like.
I like what you, just our minds.
(34:59):
'cause what, what you just said, itsounds like what you, 'cause if I'm
imagining someone, um, climbing amountain, um, and you know, putting
one foot ahead, you know, grabbing onepiece and, and stretching out the other,
it seems like if, if there was a roomfull of people that said Draw yourself.
(35:24):
A hero's pose if there was a room fullof people that said, draw yourself.
Do you hear that ringing?
Skip?
Mm, no.
Okay, great.
Alright.
It seems like what you're saying, ifthere was a room full of people and they
said, draw yourself in the hero's poseon a mountain, most people will do the
(35:44):
classical standing there with the supermanpose, but it sounds like your pose will
be that guy stretching to the nets rock.
Absolutely.
Yeah, no, for sure.
They, there would have to be no morerocks left, but, uh, it would've
to be the, uh, there would've tobe no other, no other thing that
needed fixing in, in, in this world.
(36:06):
I'm not sure.
I'm all live to get, to get thereuntil, uh, so I'm gonna keep
climbing, see how many things Ican, uh, solve while I'm here.
I like that man.
Um, please one more time.
Uh, let people know who theyare, who you are, and how they
can get in touch with you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, skip Wilson draft advertising.
(36:26):
Uh, you can reach out to usinfo@draftadvertising.com.
Man, that's great.
Skip, uh, I think they got a lot,uh, from this, uh, the audience.
Uh, this has been another episodeof The Entrepreneur's Podcast, a
place to hear real entrepreneursand business owners bear at all.
I have been your host, Randolph Love ii,and until next time, we'll see you then.
Welcome to another episode of TheEntrepreneur Podcast, the place
to hear real entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, bear it all.
I am your host, Randolph Love iii.
And as always, we have a special guest, aentrepreneur that's gonna do what we say.
Uh, that they do.
A little bit about our guests.
(00:33):
Uh, skip Wilson is the founder andCEO of Draft Media Partners, an
advertising execution company thathelps over a hundred client clients
across four locations, streamlinemarketing operations to get real results.
Skip's journey began at 16 asa copywriter chasing a crush
(00:54):
and landing a creative career.
He evolved into a web developer.
Work with CNN's I report and laterhelp build, uh, clear Channel's
digital division before servingas VP of Digital Media at High
Heart Media for over a decade.
Skip is also a bestselling authorand host of the advertising
(01:17):
podcast under his leadership.
Draft Media Partners was awardedmost intuitive software developer
in 2023 and best marketing softwaredeveloper in 2024 at the Innovation
and Business MarTech Awards.
Despite 20 plus years in the industry,skip never planned on a marketing career.
(01:41):
He simply kept solving problemsuntil marketing found him.
He brings in.
Empathetic people firstapproach to advertising.
And he believes that understandingthe human objective behind every
campaign is the real secret to success.
Please skip, who areyou and what do you do?
(02:05):
Man, I, uh, was, uh, thatwas, that was pretty solid.
That was, uh, that was pretty spot on.
I, I would say that I'm someone who hasbumbled and stumbled my way along through.
What it's been a, uh, what it'sturned out to be a, a good life.
Mm, mm-hmm.
You fell for it sounds like.
Yeah, right.
Pretty much.
Mm-hmm.
And it's funny how it is, you know,uh, most people when we are raised
(02:29):
going through the traditionalschool system, we're taught to avoid
failure at any and every cause.
However, uh, successfulentrepreneurs know that failure
isn't the opposite of success.
It's a part of the steps.
Oh yeah, no, for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it was, uh, I, in a lot of ways, Imean, I went to school to be a journalist.
(02:50):
I wanted to be, that was what Iwanted to do, was to be a writer.
And you know, looking back now, I cansay, well, I was never very good at that.
And so I don't know why I evenwanted to do that, but at the
time I was like, you know, that'smarketing was just sort of the.
Well, I've got this little webdesign company and it's doing
okay, but that's not my real thing.
I really want to do this right?
Or um, you know, yes, sure, I'll gowork for this company for a little
(03:12):
while, but that's not my real thing.
I really want to do this and that.
That's how I made my way through basicallymy whole career, until finally realizing,
wait, actually I'm good at this thing.
Why don't I just do this thing atthe marketing and advertising world?
Mm. Thi this is my real thing.
I'm, I'm gonna do this, this until,until just hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, right.
(03:32):
Exactly.
You know, once you get on your, like,uh, into your second decade of doing
something, it's like, you know, eventuallyyou just gotta sort of be like, okay,
actually I guess this is my thing.
Right.
But absolutely.
I, I, and I can relate to you with that.
Is there nothing that you knownow, uh, after so many decades, uh,
multiple decades in marketing, thatyou wish you knew in the beginning?
(03:55):
Yeah, I mean I definitely think,uh, that everything with me,
with timing worked out well.
I mean, I was just startingas a freelancer, right?
As WordPress was becoming a thing.
And so that was just purely fortunate.
Timing was the main reasonfor my success there.
And then I was justleaving college, right?
As uh, companies were starting tobuild their own, you know, time
(04:17):
Warner was building their user,user generated content platform.
And then that's how Igot with Time Warner and.
By heart.
So it was all, I would say that I'vebeen very fortunate timing wise, um,
that makes it look like I had thisgrand master plan the whole time.
But, um, it wasn't my plan anyway.
There may, there may have beenone, but it wasn't my plan.
It's not, and it was, uh, looking back,I think I, I do wish that I had sort
(04:42):
of, uh, I don't know, enjoyed whereI was at more, I was always focused
on getting to that next thing, right?
And so that, that's, but career wise,I mean, as far as business wise.
Uh, my biggest changes would be, youknow, there were t definitely when I was
starting off, uh, there were, when I wasjust starting in my, like leadership roles
and management roles, I. I was very, uh,nervous about the fact that I was like
(05:04):
21, 20 2-year-old, like department head.
And, uh, I was a jerk to be,to put it bluntly, I spent like
two years being a jerk manager.
And I, those, those two years are theonly time that I would look at my, like,
professionally that I look at myself andI'm like, nah, I regret those two years.
But, but, uh, it worked out okay,but I would've hated to work with me.
And, uh, anyway, that wasa short lived little stint.
(05:27):
I spent two years being a jerkbefore I fixed it, I think, man,
listen to what you say, skip.
I would say you're almost onyour last reincarnation, man.
I, I would say the nets go around, you'reprobably going to ascend to a higher
dimension because it is, what, whatyou're saying is, uh, it, you seem very
self-aware and, and it seems like eventhough, 'cause uh, I, I've, I've dealt
(05:51):
with different people on different levels,different socioeconomical levels, and, uh.
If.
If people say that jerks don'tget progress, you are wrong.
Jerks do get progress.
However, they don't get as much progressas the people working under collaboration.
It might seem in comparison that the jerkssucceeds, but really the collaborator.
(06:18):
The one who brings in all, uh, takesin all the data and then uses that data
to, uh, e express themselves throughnot just internally, but externally.
Those are the ones who win.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, exactly.
It's all about, you know, I, I,I'm definitely a believer that
people can change, uh, becauseI am one and I have changed.
And, uh, but you know, I thinkthat, uh, but it does take being,
(06:42):
it does take being self-aware.
It does take a willingness tobe, you know, willing to say.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not right all the time.
And, uh, that's something that ifyou're wrong, as often as I am, you
have the, for you have the, uh, Ihave the fortune of proving myself
wrong enough every day to, uh, remindmyself that I'm not right all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I think that self-awareness, uh,top down is something that separates a
(07:07):
great company from a good enough company.
Is there nothing else?
That you would say that separates agreat company from a good enough company?
I do.
So I almost, it, it'strue of ad campaigns too.
I think it's true of companies.
I think it's true of peopleand it's true of ad campaigns.
The, the difference between good andgreat ones is the willingness to look
at the data, look at the reality,and then make changes accordingly.
(07:31):
And, uh, as long as you're alwaysdoing that, no one ever makes the, you
know, if you're a company, if you'rean entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur.
You're constantly making guesses.
You're constantly making decisions.
You're not gonna get theright ones all the time.
That's impossible, right?
So the second best thing is to alwaysbe right the second time around.
(07:51):
And that, I think, is more possible,that I think is more realistic.
So, um, always, uh, knowing where you'regoing, knowing where you, what you want
to build and what you want to do, andthen constantly being willing to check
your progress against what that thing is.
As long as you do those two things,I think you can succeed at anything.
And, and you picked, youpicked up where I was heading.
(08:11):
Because regardless of what your companyis, it, it really depends on the narrative
of the campaign that you portray.
So would you, are youconnecting those two things?
Like when you run a campaign for someone,is it, um, alright, we need to enter this
(08:32):
knowing that we could be completely wrong?
Oh, yeah.
And willing to make a, a 180.
We actually now formally put thatinto our, we break everything
down into like a sprint system.
So like, uh, the, we, we call it sprinttwo is the first two weeks of a campaign.
We actually go into every campaignassuming that there is gonna
(08:53):
be some missed marks in there.
And most agencies do that.
I mean, most agencies do.
If you, I mean any advertiser thattalks about AB testing and those types
of things, that's what they're doing.
The reason they're AB testing is'cause they're saying, we don't know
what the answer is, so we're gonnasee which of these is, uh, what most
companies don't do is formalize thatto the point of being willing to say.
(09:13):
Um, we don't know what, we absolutelydon't know what the answer is, but
we know where we're trying to get, weknow what the average click-through
rate and the average response rate is.
And as long as you know thosethings, you know, when you're falling
below average in an area, and thenit becomes very easy to fix it.
It's like fixing like a carengine or something like that.
It's like, okay, I know the gas isgetting from here to here, but it's
not getting from here to there.
(09:34):
And so it becomes very easy to fix thingswhen you know where they should be.
Ah, and, and not only does it become.
Seems like not only does it becomevery easy to fix things, but if
you're checking it in a, a maticfashion, like you're saying, it's,
it's the, it's the difference.
(09:54):
Like let's say you, you go to cut on yourcar and your, your car doesn't cut on.
Uh, instead of just replacing your entireengine, you might check the battery
first, or yeah, you might check the sparkplugs, or you might check the alternator
or you might check the fuel pump.
It sounds like what you're sayingis when you, uh, when you do it
the right way, uh, not only is itmore effective, but probably more
(10:18):
cost, uh, cost beneficial as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's always easier to, unless you'vejust completely missed the mark, it's
almost always easier to fix a currentcampaign than it is to start fresh.
Mm-hmm.
And that's true of employees.
That's true of ad campaigns.
It's true of almost everything in life.
Right?
It's easier, almost always easierto fix what you've currently got
(10:41):
going on than it is to start fresh.
And you, and you mentioned something ABtesting for the people who don't know what
that is, what, what, what is a AB testand, and why, and why is that beneficial?
So, AB testing, uh, just meansrunning multiple, usually creatives.
Usually when uh, people aresaying it, they're talking
about different types of ads.
So they're, it can be different images,so having two or three different
(11:05):
images, you know, if you're a rooferand you don't know whether this
picture of the roof is gonna work.
Or whether the picture of the rooffrom the street level is gonna work.
Uh, then you put, do a campaign,put both those a images in there,
and then that would be AB testing.
Um, but you can ab test everything.
You can ab test the landing pagesthat you're sending people to.
You maybe test the images.
You can maybe test the words,you can test the audiences.
(11:27):
You know, is it better to targethomeowners or is it better to target?
You know, homeowners of homes in specificage ranges, you know, homeowner homes 10
years and older or something like that.
Um, so you should betesting each piece of it.
Um, and, but by doing that, you're,it does take the, uh, the willingness
to be able to say, we don't knowwhat the answer is, so we're
(11:48):
gonna find out what the answer is.
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah.
Uh, uh.
The more you know, the more youknow, the more you don't know.
And Exactly, and depending onwho you talk talking to, the data
can be twisted different ways.
And, and even with the AB testing,something as simple as having just
that house, just the front elevation,an image or just that same front
(12:13):
elevation, but with two homeownersin the front, like it, it could,
the, the, it's drastically different.
And sometimes you don'teven know why one gets more.
Response than the other.
But if you didn't AB tested,you would've never known.
And when I was, when I, you know, therewas a time where I was like, well,
let's find out what the answer is.
Is it better to have people in the ador there not have people in the ads?
(12:34):
Or is it better to do this or that?
And what I found is that it reallyis different based off of like
almost every company is different.
That's why you do almost have totreat each campaign on its own because
different zip codes are different.
Different, I mean, there's so manydifferent factors that it's just
cheaper rather than trying to guessand get it right the first time.
Cheaper to run two types ofads and see which one's getting
(12:55):
better, getting better response.
Absolutely.
It's not like you haveto do that for years.
You just do that for a couple months.
Right.
And then you make the chance Exactly.
To get the data and Exactly.
For somebody like you that'sbeen doing this for, uh, multiple
decades, it's very simple, but,you know, simple is subjective.
What, what can somebody do?
(13:16):
Like if they were trying to in.
Implement these changes that you, youand your team would suggest into their
operating system, but they want to reducethe complexity is, is there nothing
that they can do to help mitigate that?
Yeah.
Um, absolutely.
An advertising campaign is nothing morethan a specific way to get a particular
(13:42):
message to a particular audience toget them to do something specific.
So to, to simple, to simplify things.
I actually get three index orthree, um, not index cards, but
those little yellow sticky notes.
Get three of those.
Write one of them message,write one of them.
Audience.
And then write one of them, uh,action, and then fill that out and
(14:03):
boom, you just got a, you know,what would, what you would pay an ad
agency 50, $60,000 to do the planningfor you've, you've just done it.
It's like, who, you know, what do Iwant to, who do I want to talk to?
What am I trying to get them to do?
And then what do I need to say tothem to get them to do that thing?
If you answer that, thenit really doesn't matter.
You know, usually with, uh, withentrepreneurs, with, with especially
(14:25):
smaller businesses, I'm asked questionslike, um, is Facebook a good idea?
You know, is meta a good idea for me?
Or is AdWords a good idea for me?
And the answer is always, itdepends on who your audience is,
what you're trying to say and whatyou're trying to get 'em to do.
'cause if you're a roofer, then.
You know, and you're goingafter homeowners to try to get
them to get a roofing quote.
(14:46):
Google's a great way to do that.
But the reality is, is youcould do that on any platform.
You could also do it on meta.
Um, it, it's, it doesn't,Google's gonna be, I, I think,
more efficient by, but the.
When you talk about things likeefficiency, you're talking about a one
or 2% difference in campaign performance.
The reality is, is you can makealmost any platform work as long
(15:08):
as you make sure that you're sayingthe right thing to the right people.
Mm. And that's true.
Like you, you, you gottafind your audience and, um.
And seems like what I'm gathering fromyou, once you know your audience, you,
you must know how to engage with themusing, using your roofer, um, analogy.
(15:29):
Uh, going, going along with that, theperson trying to sell a roof doesn't
need a roof right now, so they're notnecessarily their target demographic.
Yeah.
Uh, how does somebody, whether they arethe company or the marketing professional
working with the company, how do theygather this empathy of understanding
(15:52):
what the other person is going through?
Uh, not only how do they attain thisempathy, but why is, is that empathy not
more important than their tech stack?
What, what they're seeing in this data.
So the, there's many ways to do it.
And one, I mean, you can send surveysout to your customer list, you can do,
you can, uh, do those types of things.
(16:12):
Uh, we live in a world where like youcan ask chat bt and those types of
things, and those are helpful tools.
You can be like, Hey, what are peoplesaying in this, in this in field?
But one of my favorite ways, the onethat I don't think we use often enough,
uh, as entrepreneurs is angry customers.
When you get an angry customer.
That is a goldmine in my opinion, becausethat is somebody who's gonna tell you
everything that's wrong about yourmessaging, everything that is different,
(16:35):
what they wish you had done differently.
That's like, uh, that'sinvaluable information.
So when you get that cranky, uh,willing to complain about anything,
person on the phone, ask them, youknow, Hey, what do you not like
about the roofing process in general?
Tell me like, what, youknow, what, what went wrong?
Not only with us, but what wentwrong when you were looking?
Um, that, uh, angry cranky.
(16:57):
An angry, cranky old person that's willingto hang on the phone for 20 minutes.
That's, that's worth gold.
But, uh.
Does the business owner leverage?
All right, so, uh, let's, let's,let's keep going with this analogy.
Um, I, on your house, uh, maybe the crew.
(17:19):
Didn't, um, didn't clean up thenails and the debris as, as, as
well as we would've wanted them to.
And once you notice that debrisin your bushes as a homeowner, it,
it triggered you to start lookingfor other things that are wrong.
So does the business owner.
(17:41):
First, fix the problem, then ask,or do they ask while the customer
is in their, their, their heat,just to get the most, the closest,
uh, accurate, uh, credible data.
I would, you know, you do haveto sort of appease them a little
bit, so it's like, you know, oh,hey, I hear what you're saying.
(18:01):
That's, that's awful.
We're, we're gonna fix that.
Do you mind if I ask youabout these other things?
Then, boom, you can ask 'emanything because I would do
it kind of in the moment.
Also, there's certain, there'speople that will complain and
there's people that won't complain.
When they are self-identifying as the kindof person that will complain, boom, that's
somebody that you wanna ask a surveyfor right there, right then and there.
You wanna be like, alright,and what else did you not like?
Well, you know, because then that's whenthey're gonna tell you, and you know what,
(18:23):
I didn't wanna do business with you guysanyway because of this, this, and this,
and all of this is going, you know, sothat's, you wanna get all of that out and,
and also tell it about the competitors.
They'll start saying, well, you, youwere the third guy we got a quote
from and we didn't like them eitherbecause of this, this, and this.
Oh, what are you, what did, whatdid you not like about them?
Okay, got it.
Yeah, right, exactly.
(18:43):
And, and then, you know,and then just keep it going.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I, no, uh, do, do you hear me or skip?
Am I going in or out?
Yes.
Uh, you, you clicked it, uh, messedup a little bit, but you were good.
I think I heard the whole thing.
I think I heard you most of the time.
(19:04):
Perfect.
Perfect, perfect.
So let's say, alright, you are thebest marketing partner in the world.
Uh, any company, uh, any industrywould love to work with you.
Mm-hmm.
And you do what you saidyou were going to do.
Uh, you bring a lot of eyeballs tothem and so much business comes in.
(19:36):
How important is the operationsof the company to what you're
doing as a marketing, uh, partner?
So, I, one of the things that I, I wouldsay get not in trouble for is the wrong
word, but one of the things that I, my.
Business partner and my team call me outon all the time is getting too far into
(19:57):
the operations of a business because I,to me it is all one, it's all one, you
know, it's two sides of the same coin.
Yeah.
Because we have, uh, if they'renot, if the leads aren't converting
into business or if it's notpaying for itself in the long run.
Whether we are getting the cancellation,'cause the ad campaign failed or
whether we're getting a cancellation.
'cause the business failed,both are cancellations.
(20:19):
Right.
And, uh, so it, it is, it's,it's incredibly important.
And you'd be surprised how often,um, now some of our, some of
our clients are like governmentgrants and those types of things.
And for those, that's, that'smoney that's just gone.
Right?
They don't care about ROI, but forthe vast majority of our clients.
Um, you'd be surprised how manycampaigns we do where we've, you
(20:42):
know, where we're like, okay, hey,you got a hundred leads last month.
Tell me what happened with those.
And we get a response to the effectof, well, we haven't called them,
we haven't done anything with them.
Those sort of things.
I mean, it happens a, a decent amountand it's, it's frustrating 'cause
it's like, well, you know, what canwe do to help you out with that?
And so, um, you know, that's partof why you, you'd mentioned, uh,
(21:03):
the cr, the CRM you used, uh, at thestart of the call before we recorded.
So that's part of why we playaround with each of those is so
that we can, uh, help address that.
'cause it's like, okay, well ifyou're getting a bunch of leads
and you're not responding to them,let me show you this and this tool
that has nothing to do with us.
But will at least help you make surethat you automate the responses to
the people that are filling stuff out.
(21:25):
Um, because there are so many greattools out there that make those the,
you know, 'cause I get it, if you area one or two person business, it's hard
to follow up on, you know, leads, uh,you know, or those types of things.
And so.
But we do live in a day and age whereyou can automate 99% of that follow up.
So make sure you're doing that.
Oh yeah.
Uh uh, one of the things that separateshumans from the A, from most animals,
(21:51):
you know, other than opposing thumbs,is our ability to use tools and even to.
Scientists when testing the intelligenceof an animal against another animal, they
see which one will use the tool first.
Uh, and it seems like, uh, uh, you have,uh, uh, you know, uh, they say a prophecy
(22:15):
is often confused with wi uh, wisdom.
Uh, if you are a very wise person, peoplewill swear that you can see the future.
Like, nah, I just, I justknow that if I don't.
Take the time to helpyou with your operations.
Eventually, you're not gonna be able toafford my services anymore for marketing,
(22:39):
so I'm gonna proactively save both of us.
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's it.
This is either gonna end this monthor gonna keep on going this month.
No point in doing it.
Three more months.
Right.
But, uh, okay.
So.
Based off the conversations thatyou and I had, like I wasn't joking.
(23:00):
I, I truly believe that peopleare on a path, and when you meet
people at different stages intheir development, regardless of
what you believe, some people haveabundance mindsets, some people have
scarcity mindsets, and depending onwhether it's abundance or scarce.
There's usually other traitsthat go with that abundance.
(23:23):
Most people that have an abundance mindsettypically have a live and let live, uh,
type of, of, of way of, of doing things.
Right.
Right.
Uh, so let's say youare a marketing person.
You have an abundance mindset.
You've listened to this podcast,you, you got some tips from Skip.
(23:44):
How do you keep from being overwhelmedwith the execution of all of these things?
Because, uh, the referrals are gonna comeslamming in once you treat one co company.
Good.
Second company, good.
Oh, not only do they help us withmarketing, but they also give us,
uh, viable advice on operations.
Of course, I'm gonna referthem to different people.
(24:05):
Uh, how does a person keep frombecoming overwhelmed in this scenario?
Um, well, I mean, you've got it.
So it's all about leverage, right?
You can either leverage, uh, capital,which is when you hire somebody,
uh, that, so that's one way to doit, is to be like, you know what?
I'm gonna hire an advertising expert.
Um, that's the right one.
No, I'm just kidding.
(24:26):
The, the, the other, the other option.
Yeah.
Right, exactly.
Um, and then the other, the otheroption would be, well then you're
gonna average, then you're gonnaleverage like your own labor, which
is when you start learning stuff.
There is a ton of great resources,um, on advertising and marketing.
I will say though, if you are gonnago down the, um, self-education rabbit
(24:48):
hole in terms of like watching YouTubeand those types of things mm-hmm.
I think that's fine for.
The entry points for advertising, whichis mostly Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, I IT
for those platforms, for the social mediaplatforms and for the search platforms.
I do think those are fine.
Those are great places to test.
If you start getting much beyondthat, I would actually recommend
(25:09):
hiring someone else, but.
The easiest way to keep fromgetting overwhelmed is to
remember what you're doing.
All you're doing is is thinking of a fancyway to get some message to some audience,
to get them to do something specific.
So as long as you have a veryclear, here's the thing I'm
trying to get them to do.
Here's who I want to take that action,and then here's what I would say to them.
(25:32):
Then I think it becomes a lot less over,a lot less, you know, overwhelming.
It's, it's actually fairly, usuallyfairly simple and, you know, going,
setting up an ad campaign in Googleright now is, it's never been easier.
Um, now yes, there's a big differencebetween somebody who's been doing it
for 20 years would set up an ad campaignand somebody who's just starting out.
(25:55):
But that said.
Just starting out is a million timesbetter than it was even three or four
years ago in terms of the ad space.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's, you know, with now youcan in an afternoon have a pretty
decent ad campaign set up, so Oh yeah.
Um, just don't, just, uh, don'tforget who you're talking to and
what you're trying to get 'em to do.
As long as you get thosetwo things hammered in the
(26:17):
rest of, it's pretty simple.
Uh, now I know that what you're, whatyou're sharing is groundbreaking, but
it's, it is like one of those things of,um, for example, if you give a baby a
set of keys, no matter a keys to a car.
(26:42):
No matter how smart this babyis, it cannot drive that car.
The, you can have the most intelligentbaby in the world, but his or
her feet cannot reach the pedal.
Right, right.
And yes.
Um.
You are a 20 plus year professional, andyes, these people have tools available to
(27:05):
them, like a set of keys, but some of themfeet might not be able to push the pedal.
What makes your company so successful?
Like e, E?
What separates in, in your mind?
What are, what's, what's somethingthat separates, whether it's a
somebody just starting out or they'vebeen doing it just as long as you,
(27:27):
what differentiates you from theother people who do what y'all do?
Uh, well, what makes the, what makesmy company, I'd say different or is
that we are, um, draft, originallya draft stands for Dynamic Response
Advertising Forecast Technology.
Basically we built a, uh, the abilityto forecast ad results based off of.
(27:48):
Who your ad, what your ad spend is, orwhat your ad spend should be and what
your lead goal is, sales goals, et cetera.
And then it'll actually come back witha media mix on and all those things.
So, I mean, a big part of whatmakes us as a company different
is our tech stack and the, um, aswell as we're a fairly small team.
We're a very experienced team,though that, so, you know, we're
(28:10):
only about 10 people strong, but.
We're able to Also, most of ourclients we don't work with directly.
Most of 'em are through, uh, thebackend of other ad agencies.
And so that allows us to be, um, kindof hyper-focused on the paid ad space.
But, um, in terms so we're ableto predict ad results better and
(28:30):
really put together and give you avery objective, like, here's what
your ad campaign should be doing.
We call it building ad systemsas opposed to ad campaigns like
building a, a reliable, repeatable.
Lead generation system usually, um,or e-commerce sales system, depending
on what the business's goal is.
Um, if you're doing it as a, you know,in, as your, that's what makes the company
(28:55):
different as far as doing it yourself,keeping the fundamentals in, in check.
And then I would stick to Google Meta.
I would, that's, that wouldbe my, that would be my tip.
Stick to those two platforms.
Okay.
And, uh, take a piece of paper,try to figure out what would I
need to say to somebody to get themto do this thing that's gonna get
you further than most businessesthat are doing the ads themselves.
(29:15):
Just that little tip alone.
It.
That's interesting.
So it, what would you say is the reason?
Because, are you treating, uh, Googleand meta almost like a blue chip stock?
Like so for let's, for example.
Yeah.
What I mean by thatis, uh, as an investor.
You can invest in a very,you know, unknown stocks and
(29:39):
it could skyrocket for you.
Right?
But it also, but statisticallyspeaking, if it's a very unknown and
you like it's brand new, no, no, no.
You know, no references.
It may plummet.
Whereas you can put money into a bluechip stock, like a, you know, like
one of the well-known, like the Wal,like the Walmarts and stuff like that.
(30:00):
Right?
And the money is almost guaranteedto grow, but it's not gonna
grow as, yeah, you're getting.
Right.
So are you, that's great analogy.
You treat meta and Google as ifthey're a blue tip platform for
marketing, whereas, alright.
Yeah, you can go other places andyeah, you might skyrocket with
(30:20):
like a new app, but Meta and Googleare the proven, uh, standard.
Yeah, I think that's, that'sa perfect analogy for sure.
It's, they're very hard platformsto mess up, like it's hard to do
wrong, um, that, especially Google,especially search, especially
Google, very hard to do a bad job of.
But yeah, you're, you're likelygonna get a two to three X return,
(30:43):
which, you know, two to three X roas,which comparing it to SOX sounds
great, but you keep in mind that.
We're talking about top linerevenue, not net revenue, but mm-hmm.
So you're likely gonna gonna get atwo to three x, uh, roas, you're not
likely gonna get a 10 or 15 X ROAS offof putting 500 bucks into, into Google.
So, yeah, I think that's a,that's a perfect analogy.
(31:05):
Um, whereas, you know, if we take a. A10, $15,000 campaign, we take it and we
put that across ot, like Hulu and OTTand those types of things, and then back
it up with like a direct mail campaign.
And you know, when we get to wherewe're five or six platforms deep, you
very much can have a 10 x uh, roas.
I mean, that's very, very realistic.
Depending on your business.
(31:26):
Go into the operationalside there for a second.
But, um, the, uh, so yeah, I mean, Ithink that's, that's the perfect analogy.
The reason I would start withthose, if you're doing your
own, they're hard to mess up.
And, but they're also not gonna, youknow, they're li they are better for
generating just more consistent returns.
(31:47):
Absolutely.
And, uh, when you're not, 'cause Imean, you're very su successful, uh,
in your corporate, um, career, as wellas, uh, building a great reputation,
uh, in this space when you're not, um,changing the world, the marketing world.
Like what do you do for vacation?
What do you do for fun?
(32:07):
Yeah, so I have, I have, I havethree i a wife and three kids.
And, uh, so usually I'm, uh,usually with them at some point.
They all have their, they're at the agewhere they all have their own various,
like sports and hobbies and those things.
So driving them around a lot, I would sayis, is a big part of my life right now.
And, uh, taking 'em to their variousactivities and then, uh, going
(32:28):
vacation, those types of things.
Oh yeah.
Family man.
I know you, uh, you mentioned,uh, recently you attended
a, uh, a theme park did.
Yeah.
Are you express pass type of guy,or, or what do you stand in line?
What do you like?
Very much, very much the express pass.
Especially since, you know, taking a,taking a vacation as an entrepreneur
means something very different thanit does, uh, as, as any other type.
(32:49):
You know, I'm, when I'm takinga vacation, that means I'm
taking my family on vacation.
While I sit in the room and do workfor three or four hours of each day.
Right.
That's a day off for, for me.
Um, so that is the entrepreneur,the entrepreneur life.
So yes, when I am, uh, when I'm inthe parks, I definitely going in, uh,
all in on the, um, on all the extras.
(33:10):
'cause yeah, I don't like, Idon't like waiting in line.
I'm a big park, open parkclo for Disney in particular.
I'm a big, uh, park open, park close fan.
Those are the, that's how youavoid the, uh, that's how you
avoid the lines for cheap.
I. But, uh, ah, this mangot strategy for everything.
So it sounds like you're saying ifyou're going to the park, are you saying
when you sold Park open, park close?
That means, uh, 'cause I'm not,I'm, you know, I haven't been
(33:33):
to a theme park in a while.
Are you saying get there early aspossible or get there late as possible?
Exactly.
Either one of those, or in ourcase, we're usually doing both.
We're there, you know, 11:00 AMand earlier, and then we dip.
For the middle part of theday, that's when you rest
and recoup or do other stuff.
Then you get back about six orseven and stay there till close.
That's, that's the way to do it.
(33:53):
You avoid the heat of the day, thecrowd of the day, and the lines.
Ah, man, you too.
Good, man.
I'm, uh, please, uh, send yourinvoice to me for giving me that.
I'm gonna check, check that out.
And, and, and lastquestion for you, uh, skip.
Um, if you were to envision yourselfstanding on top of a mountain.
(34:14):
With a hero's pose, as in I did it.
This is what I set out to do.
I did it.
What does that look like?
You know, until, uh.
That means that I would've, I would,for me to do that, I would have
to solve all the world's problems.
And, uh, and, uh, is, and you havethe perfect bus business or multiple
(34:37):
businesses, uh, really focus on justone, but at least one successful company.
Solve all of our politicalissues and then solve all of,
uh, humanities issues at large.
Until that happens, I'm not,I'm not striking that pose yet.
I'm gonna keep, I'm gonnakeep climbing that mountain.
I like.
I like what you, just our minds.
(34:59):
'cause what, what you just said, itsounds like what you, 'cause if I'm
imagining someone, um, climbing amountain, um, and you know, putting
one foot ahead, you know, grabbing onepiece and, and stretching out the other,
it seems like if, if there was a roomfull of people that said Draw yourself.
(35:24):
A hero's pose if there was a room fullof people that said, draw yourself.
Do you hear that ringing?
Skip?
Mm, no.
Okay, great.
Alright.
It seems like what you're saying, ifthere was a room full of people and they
said, draw yourself in the hero's poseon a mountain, most people will do the
(35:44):
classical standing there with the supermanpose, but it sounds like your pose will
be that guy stretching to the nets rock.
Absolutely.
Yeah, no, for sure.
They, there would have to be no morerocks left, but, uh, it would've
to be the, uh, there would've tobe no other, no other thing that
needed fixing in, in, in this world.
(36:06):
I'm not sure.
I'm all live to get, to get thereuntil, uh, so I'm gonna keep
climbing, see how many things Ican, uh, solve while I'm here.
I like that man.
Um, please one more time.
Uh, let people know who theyare, who you are, and how they
can get in touch with you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, skip Wilson draft advertising.
(36:26):
Uh, you can reach out to usinfo@draftadvertising.com.
Man, that's great.
Skip, uh, I think they got a lot,uh, from this, uh, the audience.
Uh, this has been another episodeof The Entrepreneur's Podcast, a
place to hear real entrepreneursand business owners bear at all.
I have been your host, Randolph Love ii,and until next time, we'll see you then.
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