Writing, Publishing & Authorship : 7-9-25

In this session, we discuss audiobook production, audio equipment, plus the development of media and hardware that enabled the growth trend for audio experiences.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I'm tired today, but I'll run through a couple of things.
I am kind of rebooting my Patreon after years away, trying
to think of new interesting things to do over there.
I've got I've got a a poll up ifyou're interested in voting.

(00:22):
And finally, Songless, the Desert, the audio book.
It's out now from Heidi. Maybe congratulations are in
order I feel like. Can you believe it?
Thank you. I can't believe it.
I do believe it. Persistence.
It's all about persistence. Huge momentous day.

(00:46):
I know I'm that was fun. That was a fun experience.
You did it. I did.
I need to talk to you about a mic now.
Well. We can talk about a mic here.
Well, OK, why not? Because I think that that blue
yetis well, we've discussed the issue.
I think that I was getting all that rubbing noise because of

(01:08):
the setup with that blue Yeti. And I think there's something
wrong with the connector betweenthe headset because it has to
hook into it. So when I finally switched to a
different headset, I was able tofinish it, but I don't know how
long it's going to last. And I I do not want to go
through that again where I record something and the mic's
screwing up the recording. You know what I mean?

(01:29):
Yeah. For sure.
So let me kind of start a coupleof things.
You're here's what you have currently that you can continue
using your mic stand your your mount arm that you have.
Oh geez, I'm slamming into stuffthat is still good.

(01:52):
You can still use that thing, but the mic not great obviously
if it's pooping out. Now here's you use audition,
which shouldn't be an issue. Most interfaces I would bet will
talk to audition. Worst case scenario you know if

(02:16):
it doesn't you just have to get another interface or you switch
over to Garage band. Functionally the same.
No, I'm staying with the dish. Well, I mean, you can record in
one and then jump over the other.
But I'll be honest with you, I don't think it makes any
difference for you realisticallybecause you are not doing a lot

(02:38):
of the things that you should bedoing.
You've gotten you've, you've picked up a handful of tricks,
but you haven't, you haven't kind of what's the word I want
to use? Made things easy on yourself so
it you're not going to have to whatever software you're using,

(03:00):
there's so much more that it will do and streamline your
process if you make a little bitof effort to sort that stuff
out. Now what I'm going to do is I'm
going to dig up what I have for you so and then I'm going to
pass it to you in Discord. You're not.

(03:21):
I am. No, I have not been sleeping
correctly. I've been sleeping terribly.
You sound you sound like me. Yeah, I'm, I'm not sharp today.
This is let's see I'm trying to find their specific website
because I don't want to just send you to something else.
But this is what I use, but they're on a slightly newer

(03:45):
version. OK, Oh my word.
This website does not want to befriends.
OK, that's OK. I don't need that.
So what I use is the scarlet 2 I2.
So let me send you this link andit's it's a 2 channel piece.

(04:06):
Now you're going to be like, well, why do I need 2 channels?
I'm only recording one voice because it's not that much more
than the single channel 1. And you don't know at some point
you might want to do I have a second mic and for the cost

(04:27):
increase over the single one, just get it.
There's a lot that opens up a lot of potentialities for you,
but to I I don't even know how much the single one is.
It can't be yeah, OK, so it it it might save you like 60 or 70

(04:50):
bucks, but honestly, just don't do that to yourself.
Get the 2 channel one. Get the the one I I sent that
has its inputs are both should be both quarter inch jacks.
Is that the right? No, that isn't the right 10

(05:11):
crap. Let me get you the right one.
I don't know why it took me to that.
You you sent me a a box. Yeah, that's an interface.
That's what we're talking about first.
You didn't. OK, so I need an interface, yes.
I can't just do what I'm doing. No, you got to stop.
You got to stop doing what you're doing.
You're going to do it right, or you want to have broken stuff.

(05:36):
Well, I I thought I was doing itright.
Now your thing's broke. Now have broken stuff.
Well, it's it just I don't know.Good Lord this link is unreal.
Just. Put it in disk or I'll have to
figure it out and I can plug this into my MacBook.
Right. Yes, yeah.
That's kind of the key. That is the key, correct?

(05:58):
That's where we're getting. That that it's utterly useless,
right? Looks like this one's 249.
But this is not Focusrite Scarlett.
Sorry. This is.
They didn't have that many models back in the day.
I've had mine for years at this point and they didn't have

(06:19):
anywhere near as many. OK, two I 2.
But that's just those regular inputs.
That's not what we want. We want it.
Maybe they only do it. Oh, and here's a third
generation. Third generation still has the
proper, so yeah, get this is theone to get.
This one's only like 200 bucks and it looks like they're giving

(06:42):
you a cable with it as well. OK, so that's cool.
God forbid I'm not. Gee, really?
Everyone now makes you buy everylittle piece separately.
There's actually other packages on here.
There's packages with cables, headphones, there's like a
package deal on here. It's only 249 for this is not

(07:03):
bad actually, because you get the microphone, the headphones
here this is on this is on Amazon.
So I'm just going to send you this.
But what you're going to notice that link work.
OK, there you go. So the thing there that's
valuable. This is the the valuable part is

(07:24):
that red box. OK, the red box is the important
part. OK, that's interesting.
They've changed that up. That's Solo Studio.
OK, All right. There's actually like so many
different models now. It is blowing my mind how much
different stuff. So the 3rd Gen. 1, let's see

(07:45):
what that looks like on the backis they have a picture of the
back. That's straight up.
That's OK. Interesting.
Yeah. Solo Studio is the one channel.
I'm sorry. Let me send you this one.
This is the one that you. This is the one that I have
actually. I think this might be updated.
Oh my. God, you're going to send me all

(08:07):
these links and I'm going to click the wrong one?
I'm deleting them. I'm I'm getting.
Yeah, I'm getting. I'm not dropping 10 links.
You know me. You know me well enough.
You know to delete them. Correct.
Yeah. So this is the one that I have.
I don't know if I have the thirdgeneration.
I feel like I have maybe the second generation.
So there's like a little bit of I don't know, it looks the same.

(08:29):
No, no, it's not the same. But this this is an updated
version. So it's got like some edition.
It's got some switches that are turned into buttons.
But this is this is good becausewhat it has is like the inputs
on the front, you'll notice willdo quarter inch jacks or they
will do XLR and that's valuable for any number of reasons.

(08:53):
Now in terms of microphone, whatare you using?
The Blue Yeti did you say? A blue Yeti.
A blue Yeti. You're saying that you haven't
included the microphone in this yet?
I thought you said it was a bundle.
There is, but you don't want that one because it's only the
single channel interface. Yeah, actual audio equipment

(09:19):
that doesn't break is expensive,correct?
Yes, that's true. Oh.
Yes, plugging into your microphone is astounding.
Never heard of that before. That was the only way I could
get it to work. Yeah, that.

(09:41):
No, I assure you that there's some other control that'll
that'll switch. Up.
I tried but it wouldn't. I know.
Oh. Don't, don't.
Do that I know you tried. It's not even funny.
It's You're so condescending right now.
I don't know what to tell you itthese things all work.

(10:03):
They all work for everyone else.I, you know, I had to start
somewhere. Yeah, well, it got you through,
but now you know barely, you know you barely.
And that's my point. So those were like, those are
like 150 bucks, OK. And it barely got you through
one project. Now, I've had my interface for

(10:25):
eight years, OK, And I've had mymicrophone for like 10 or 15
years. I've had my cable for the same
amount of time. I've had my stand for the same
amount of time, long periods. That's what I'm saying.
So yes, what you're saying, OK. No, I mean literally, how would
I have known? Well, yeah, that's OK.

(10:46):
It got you through that, but we want to get you we we want you
to not have to think about it for a very long time.
So you're going to spend a little bit more money.
That would be. Well, yeah, I mean.
It's just the nature of it. That that was on top of all of
the rest of the issues, the factthat the microphone was screwing

(11:09):
me up with really kind of just, you know, you know, oh gosh,
what's the term? I want, I was going to say a
kick to the gut, but what's thatterm like?
Oh, insult added to injury. That's what I.
Want that's exactly I was like you got to be kidding me after I
cleaned house on all these otherissues.

(11:30):
Right, finally pooped out on you.
Now here is I'm going to send you a link to the microphone
that I use, but it's not the only microphone that I have.
I have. I hear shores are supposed to be
really good. Yeah, but there's you can't just
say I hear shores are good. There's like 900 versions of

(11:51):
Shores. I believe you.
I'm just I'm. Yeah, that's just a brand.
So like they make lower grade stuff, they make higher grade
stuff, they make stuff that's for like live performance, They
make stuff for like studio performance.
Then they make like unpowered stuff.
So dynamic mics which are not powered and then they make

(12:14):
condenser mics which are powered.
Now that interface that I linkedyou to it will it will provide
power for condenser mics or it'll do dynamic mics.
So like I have both a condenser and I have AI have a regular
dynamic mic. So I can plug both of those into
there. Now, you might find that you

(12:40):
want multiple mics in the future.
You know, that's just how it goes.
But let's see. Yeah.
So this is, yeah, I'm just goingto link you to Shure's website
because that way you can see it,you can actually see the
microphone that I use, which is nothing special, honestly.

(13:02):
You know, this is, this is not aspecial mic in any way, just a
Shure SM58. That's what I'm using right now
to record this, in fact. Now I have a condenser mic and
I've used that for stuff, but what it ends up doing is making
a lot more work for me, and for stuff like audiobooks it's not
really worth it. For other projects like more

(13:27):
voice acted stuff where you needa little bit more sensitivity
and range, then a condenser is really valuable.
But for this stuff, I don't findit to be worth the effort, to be
honest. Like for podcasting or for
audiobooks, it's just not necessary.

(13:50):
So like, you know, both of the two of those together, I mean,
you're looking at like not quite400 bucks.
Super Yeah, audiobook sells, right?
Well, I mean, you have already the stand.
So you've got that like you know, the the sure, SM58 really

(14:14):
hasn't changed price in a lot ofyears now.
The Focusrite Scarlet interface that's a little bit more
expensive than it used to be. I don't know, maybe 50 bucks
more expensive than it used to be.
It hasn't changed price that much.
But again, like, if you're goingto continue to do this stuff, do

(14:36):
you want to deal with the problems that you had and
potentially have stuff that breaks and goes bad or whatever,
or has a scenario where you're plugging into a microphone,
which you should not be doing, plain and simple.
That is just not how things workin general.

(15:00):
So yeah, that that's, that's literally the setup that I use.
Now here's an interesting thing.You probably have a Guitar
Center or something like that byyou.
You could go in and tell them, hey, I would like to test some
microphones. I've been told this one is good

(15:22):
for such and such and they're going to try and upsell you to
the most expensive microphone that they can possible.
But the other thing is that you don't have to buy it, OK?
You know, you can buy whatever you want.
I think that so long as you get something that will do an XLR

(15:51):
cable, you're probably in the right space.
If you're doing something that has a cable built into it,
you're not. My experience with microphones
is that microphones with cables attached to them in any way are
junk and eventually will be deemed junk.

(16:15):
It needs to. It needs to be able to switch
out the cable. The cable needs to be able to
plug into your interface. The interface needs to then
translate that signal to the computer.
The this is the the infrastructural chain, you know,
for translating your voice into a digital signal that you're

(16:36):
recording. Anything that's not those
things. Because here's the thing, like
the interface, it has Focusrite preamps.
They do some work to produce your voice, not a lot, but a
little bit. And also it just makes you have
additional levels of like tangible control.

(17:00):
So there's, you know, some dialsand things.
There's there's also a headphoneport on that.
So you don't have to necessarilyplug into your computer if you
don't want to. I usually do.
But now here's another thing. It also has monitor outs, which
begins to open up a whole other kind of discussion about

(17:20):
production and these other things.
Is that something you need to beworried about?
Not particularly, but it's better to have those things than
to need to change out your equipment later for whatever the
reason might be. You know, honestly like the

(17:42):
difference between the two channel and the one channel.
I I think when I looked at it just now it was like 50 bucks or
something. It's just not worth it to not
have a 2 channel interface for 50 bucks.
It's just like, it just makes nosense to me.

(18:02):
You're not recording this, are you?
Yeah, I am. Oh, you're recording it but not
on X? OK, I never did.
Say no, I get that. I've I've done that before.
I I was going to say with what with with, but where you just
get something that will expand out into doing more things.
Yeah. Since you're recording it, I

(18:24):
won't mention that I'm talking about shotguns.
Yeah, that's OK. But so no, I get it.
I get it. I'm not.
Just send me what you think. I did.
Perfect because well, I mean honestly, it's like I didn't
know you when I started this project, so how would I know to

(18:46):
even I I had no one to ask. So I mean, I do the best I can
and I think it sounds pretty good.
I mean. You listened, Yeah.
No, the production is good. I got away with it.
I got away with it. No, you don't.
It doesn't have any glaring errors.
Here's The funny thing. I'm listening to an audio book
right now, in fact, where the production of the read like you

(19:10):
can kind of hear this guy breathing off mic.
Yeah, I. Got all of that out.
Yeah. And like it's, it's, it's well
produced for a book from like 20years ago.
I don't know when it was produced.
I think maybe it was produced 15years ago or so.
It, it, the quality of it is good, but not, it's not produced

(19:37):
to the level that like I hear now.
That's not even to say that likethe stuff I'm producing is at
the level of stuff that I hear produced.
I'm just saying that I don't hear, I don't, I don't put in
like you don't hear me breathing, you know, for the
most part. Well, you can, you can edit most

(20:01):
of that out through a, you know,I, I found a universal edit for
that. It'll drop the board and then
the ones that are left I can just cut out fairly easily, you
know? Yeah, it's really not
problematic. Gating should do most of that.
Yeah, but I saw those videos. People had to put the laptop

(20:22):
outside the room where they record.
I mean, that's crazy. I, I mean, I'm, I'm glad I'm
late to the game on this becausethat would have been just, I
mean, it was hard as it was. Right.
Yeah. And that has to do with like,
well, you're using a Mac, so it doesn't have a fan.

(20:42):
So that is, you know, a benefit to you, but the other side of it
is if you're using like that micthat I sent, you assure an
SM58-A dynamic mic depending on the way that it's pointed
because it has a cardioid pattern off of the diaphragm for

(21:06):
picking up audio. Cardioid pattern, You know I
don't. Carotid artery is what comes to
my mind when you say this. Well, you're close.
It's a heart-shaped pattern thatemerges off of the diaphragm
where the mic is vibrating from when we speak.
The lungs of the mic. Got it.

(21:29):
So. Those terms biology.
So you're saying that it's basically formed in a biological
way? I mean, you're dealing with
biological things and turning them into electrical signals,
so. That's cool.
I never thought of it that way. No, I haven't.

(21:50):
I mean, seriously. You know all, all new terms.
I didn't come up with them. These are these are the official
terms. That's what their their their
meta, their bio, their anatomy and anatomy terms.
Yeah, I'm just connecting it. I have never done that before.
It's fascinating. Sorry.
No, no, it's all good. These are important things to

(22:10):
know. So now again, a dynamic mic like
the Shure SM58 has a cardioid pattern, right?
So it's shaped like a heart. So if you're standing behind the
microphone, then it it it's not going to pick up the signal as
well. And the point in me mentioning
this is that you can then point your microphone and your other

(22:38):
technology. You had to do these things back
in the day. Like when you're talking about
picking up the fan, you had to basically find sweet spots when
you were recording between like your computer and the and the
microphone or you had to put again, you know, an engineer
would be running the computer inone room and you would be
recording in another. So your cables needed to be long

(23:00):
enough and you had to have obviously 2 rooms to be able to,
to have that sort of production.You know, that was a thing back
in the day. Now the other pattern, the other
microphone pattern is called omnidirectional.
And omnidirectional means what you think, which is disabled,

(23:20):
right, that it's, it's, it is picking up signal from all
around it. And most of the condenser mics
have that sort of pattern, whichis why you'll see a much
different sort of setup for a dynamic mic versus a condenser

(23:43):
mic. The way that not only the
microphone is arranged, but alsokind of like how you produce the
collection of vocals from a person to do those sorts of
things. Because you're going to get a
lot more. Not only because the frequency
response is so much more open and sensitive, but because of

(24:07):
that omnidirectional pattern. It's going to pick up
reflections off of the walls. But also say you are pointed at
a wall and you're kind of close to it.
If you don't have a lot of foam or you don't have a lot of

(24:28):
blocking, oops, you don't have alot of blocking for the
microphone, then you get what iscalled slap back.
So it'll be your voice hitting that wall, bouncing back and
coming into the other side of the microphone.
Sounds like I don't want. That you don't.
No, I know that I can tell. I mean, I, I think we had this

(24:50):
discussion about, I can't remember the, the type, but the
microphone, I mean, is it, is itthe Omni one where it just picks
up everything? Condenser mic picks up a lot
more because it's more sensitive, it's powered, it's.
Condensed. That's the one.
And I guess that's probably not a great idea either.

(25:10):
Well, it is really great idea, but only if you have the
conditions to produce very high quality audio and you're, you
don't, you know so not. You, Sir.
Right, which is why I'm giving you the exact same one, the SN

(25:32):
58 that I use because for 90% ofthe time it's it's a really good
mic that's solid and will give you good audio that you can then
produce after the fact and and extract more frequencies out of

(25:56):
it. Then maybe you hear when it's
unproduced or raw audio. Now it a condenser mics, raw
audio also needs to be produced,but what you'll end up hearing
is just a lot more like of the sweetness of whatever it is.
You know, the high end, the mid range stuff, just a lot more

(26:19):
representation of the full rangeof frequencies.
Whereas a dynamic mic, those things are being recorded, but
they are not being as directly represented on the immediate
signal that you record. But you can get all those things

(26:40):
out of it. You just have to discover how to
produce your voice and EQ and all these other things to be
able to get it to sound that way.
Now, at the same time, like there are some sounds that we
can make as human beings, or if you're like a voice actor or if

(27:01):
you're, you know, a, a voice artist or you're making sound
effects or folly or whatever. There's sounds and frequencies
that exist in certain ranges of sound and audio that you really
need a condenser mic out of the gate to record that stuff so

(27:25):
that it's properly represented. The voice is not that thing all
of the time. It some of the time it is.
If it, if you're doing a really important production, then yeah,
I would say use a condenser mic.You could even do 2 mics.

(27:46):
You could have a condenser and adynamic.
That's not to say that that's going to be a super easy
production. You are going to have to kind of
get these things angled so that they're in the right place to
capture the frequencies that they're kind of best for.
So you might say have a dynamic mic, and this is getting super

(28:08):
technical, but you might have like a dynamic mic kind of on
the lower part of your face, like your chin and throat area
where you're picking up more of the low end.
And then you might have a condenser above that that is
picking up more of like the top of your lip, your nose, and like

(28:32):
the top of your face and things like that.
Yeah, I'm not going there right now.
Let's just let's just that's just that that's my mind going
no stop. But I I do.
I know I need to improve the setup because once I kind of get
to, I mean, I want to do a recording of Jack Jack's house,

(28:56):
as you well know, once I get, you know, to a final point when
that and that's sort of I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it with the intent of putting it out, But
also is the last step of editing, right?
So I'm I might be able to put them both out more or less
simultaneously would, but I wantto have that set up for that

(29:17):
because I don't I don't want to play this game again.
It's too stressful with the equipment screwing you over.
That's the worst of it. You know what I mean?
Horrifying. Well, it is because it's like
it, I mean, you, you, you're sitting there going, well, I'm
going to record this. I don't know if it's going to
be, you know, regardless of how good I do, I have no idea if

(29:40):
it's going to work because my equipment is putting artifacts
in it. So it's like, you know, I had to
like just, you know, I mean, themental side of that is just
like, you know, you just sort oflike, you know, literally on my
knees praying God, can you just fix this?
Because honestly, I'm going to need a miracle at this point.

(30:04):
And it did. That's exactly what happened.
I literally got down on my kneesand prayed out of sugar.
Just I've done I, I can't, I'm out and it and it all worked
from that point on. And you've heard it.
So I think you know I can. Well, I can send you those last
couple of chapters if you want to hear how they work out.

(30:26):
Who cares? Now you know.
You know who. Cares.
No. Why don't you care?
Because I. I wanted it done so bad.
Why I didn't do it. I just couldn't.
I just, I had to just like say this is it, it is done.
You know what I mean? I got to be honest with you.
Limping across the finish line. Hey man, it's all about getting

(30:47):
across the damn thing. No, Congrats.
I'm happy for you. Like because I we, when we first
connected was when you were announcing this thing talking
about getting started, I don't know that you had technically
started recording yet. Well, I didn't know what I was
doing and I spoke to someone whoI was working with at the time

(31:09):
who recommended the, the, the Blue Yeti.
And that was, you know, I, I, I didn't know who to ask.
The best I could ask was someonewho did podcasts and that's who
that was. So it's a very different thing.
I mean, your technical knowledgeon this stuff is having your
musical background. It's a whole different thing

(31:29):
than what? I said I'm a hack in the grand
scheme, yeah. You're a big, you're a big audio
nerd, so. There's people way nerdier than
me. About it, I'm sure of that.
But I'm saying, you know, that'sI, I mean that as a compliment.
It's not an insult. Yeah, I don't take it that way.
I just, I'll occasionally send off audio stuff to friends to

(31:53):
listen to that do legit engineering and like what they
can get out of it is beyond whatI can get out of it.
Oh, I'm sure. But they also have other plug
insurance and. They're they're, they're working
with very special equipment and they're doing it 24/7
practically right. Or well, their equipment isn't

(32:14):
different, their software really, again, the software
isn't really different. The plug insurance that they
have are. So they have like a lot of
expensive paid plug insurance which enable just a a whole
different level of production. Capacity.

(32:37):
On things and also their knowledge of how to apply these
practices is greater than mine because they've done so much
more of it. And when they hear a problem,
they're able to diagnose it morereadily.
Yeah, I believe it. I mean, I know it.
I Yeah. But it's like, you know, it's,

(32:58):
it's good enough for an audio book, I think.
I think audiobook listeners, I think we're still in the
beginning phases of that. I don't.
Know about all that? Well, I mean, I know they've
existed for years, like books ontape, right?
But where people are legitimately listening to them

(33:20):
on a regular basis is still fairly new.
I mean, they're not like, I can't.
It's not like the elderly whose vision is so bad they can't read
anymore. They have to listen, which was
the initial audience for that. It's, it's something different
now. It's people.
It's everybody just listens to them.

(33:40):
When would you say you perceive that change to be?
I would say maybe in the past 10years.
I mean, I don't think I mean when did I'm really when did
audible start? I mean when did, when did I mean
it? It it has to come along with

(34:01):
with the with the smartphone. Amazon has owned Audible for
quite a while. Amazon hasn't even been around
quite a while. Amazon's been over They're
almost 30 years old. That's not that old in my mind.
100 years old is old. To me, OK, well, in context,
when I, when I say in context 30years, of course 100.

(34:25):
The Internet hasn't been around for 100 years.
I know we're just, you're just talking nonsense anyway.
Audible. Nonsense anyway.
Audible formed 30 years ago. They were purchased by Amazon in

(34:46):
2008. So yeah, it's been a long.
Time right with the smartphone is when it started.
I mean you have to have a. Well, that's when Amazon bought
them. They had already been around
for. OK, I understand, but my point
is that it doesn't start becoming really mainstream until
you can plug in your your Airpods or your headset and

(35:10):
listen on your phone while you're walking around.
I mean, we had you weren't. You weren't an iPod user, that's
why this seems. Revelation I had an iPod it
anyway, but but it yeah, I understand what you're saying,
but I I really honestly think ithad to be the smartphone because

(35:32):
iPod was always about music. It's literally called the iPod,
which then birthed the term podcast.
But that's not an audiobook, that's a.
Podcast OK, you're, you're, you just want to be polemic now.
I I'm not trying to be polemic. No, I'm just, I mean, it's you,

(35:56):
you, you. You can't say that people were
listening to audiobooks that much until I would.
I mean, I'll give you like, you know, 10 or 15 years.
And really I think the past 10 years is when it's really taken
off because people have started making more of them.
I mean, you know, the fact that I can make one with my limited

(36:20):
knowledge and do a fairly reasonable job at.
It. Is is a good job?
Thank you. A good job at it is, is, is is
amazing, right. With someone with the I mean,
and I'll admit, I mean, I have some knowledge, I have some
computer knowledge. I'm not a complete Luddite, but

(36:42):
I'm, Well, yeah, but it doesn't.Yeah, I don't.
The fact that I can't even do that and and as you said, do
good at it, is, is is a new thing, you know, without having
to have the cords and 2:00 roomsas we were talking about
earlier. Yeah, that was.
And the chords in the 2 rooms isprobably only about.

(37:05):
Was that even? Was that a decade ago?
Less than. I mean, it depends on what your
technology was. I would say that sort of
scenario was, you know, really like 20 years ago, a little more
than 20 years ago when I was making albums when I was a kid.

(37:26):
I would say now that things really kind of changed.
I think I got you were able to run Pro Tools on a MacBook with
their interface. Gosh, I think I got that in
2000, the mid 2000s at some point.
So that, you know, effectively you could have the computer

(37:49):
right next to you and you could operate that.
If you had a Mac of any kind, really, it would do that because
they were all fanless. But if you were recording on PC,
well then that was a totally different story because they
always had fans. If I'm not mistaken.
Right. Yeah, right.
Particularly if they have the powerful GPU or whatever.

(38:09):
So I mean, that's just the nature of it.
That's how it goes. But yeah, you know, it's, it's
been a thing for, you know, a while.
And, and that's the thing too, with like podcasts coming up and
audio recording technology shrinking down, these kind of

(38:29):
things hit an inflection point. You know, really, I would say at
the point where Myspace was because popular, because people
were putting out albums, loadingthem up to the Internet, you
could do recordings of any kind.You had you had podcasts coming
up. Then I, I would, I would say,

(38:52):
you know, because there were still the prevalence of CD
players at that point in time. You know, you do have audio
books that are on CD at that point in time, You know, still
with. Yeah, it's not the same though.
I think to me, I think the the Airpod and the and the

(39:14):
smartphone are the real things that make it much more
relatable. It's like I don't want to listen
to an audio book over my stereo,you know what I mean?
But I will in an Airpod when I'mmoving around.
I mean that kind of thing. What are?
That will be it's it's like I, you know you.

(39:34):
Well, yeah, but if the headphones hooked to the phone,
yeah, the same thing. I mean, headphones, Airpod, Air
Airpods, whatever you want to say.
Well, when did? I won't argue that.
Point when did headphones come out?
Very funny headphones. I mean, I'm talking about
something you can hook into yoursmartphone and listen to it.
Yeah, you know, I mean, that's what I mean.

(39:58):
And and you know that. I, I know that you're going to
keep saying that I'm, I'm, I'm saying it a little bit earlier
at the, at the very least in terms of, I think really what
you're getting at is mobility and the, the mobility thing for
me, really it starts at, at the at if you're fully digital, you

(40:20):
know, know. Hardware in motion, the whole
digital thing really starts withiPods, but at the same time you
you're the mobility side of things also exists with CD
players, which again, there wereaudiobooks at that point in
time. I think this is really maybe the

(40:42):
crux of The thing is that like, yes, people are listening to
more audiobooks. They are doing more audio
because radio has kind of taken a bit of a dive and they're
filling up those audio hours with other things that aren't
terrestrial radio, which has come to kind of resemble either

(41:06):
like Top 40 stuff that they actually don't know or care
about, or old stuff that they are tired of.
Yeah, so talk. Radio isn't as popular as it
used to be either, which is where podcasts kind of fill in.
Rush Limbaugh's death, it probably went with him, right?

(41:26):
Maybe. Because he was, he was the king
of that. But it's all, it's Joe Rohtas
podcast. You're right.
And the thing with the audio books, I will say on CD, people
would listen to them in their cars.
Yeah, not necessarily in their homes.
You don't listen to audio books in your car is what I'm hearing.

(41:48):
Me, yeah, I do. I'll listen.
I'll listen to my car or I'll listen when I my favorite if I'm
going for a walk, that's a greattime to listen to a book.
I'm one of my favorite is to putin one Airpod and listen to a
book while I'm while I'm in a grocery store because grocery
stores are inherently irritating.

(42:11):
So and and so it sort of tunes it out so I'm only half there.
It also keeps me focused so I don't get too into the grocery
store and buy a bunch of stuff Idon't want to buy or don't need
to buy. I should say I clearly want to
buy it. I just don't need to buy.
It keeps me on my list because I'm more focused on the book

(42:31):
and, you know, being entertainedby grocery store.
It kind of kills their marketingvibe, you know, which is kind of
neat to do it. It breaks out of it because
you're not paying attention to what they're trying to make you
pay attention to, Right? I never thought about.
That before, Yeah, See, you're doing it deep in thought.

(42:54):
Well, you know, sometimes. Sometimes.
Well, hey, for today. You're going to get some sleep.
I, I'm going to, I might try or I might try go for, go for a
walk or something and just so I don't fall asleep.
But additionally, you know, we're going to record a, a

(43:19):
proper podcast interview sessionthis week, later this week.
And it will end up coming out after this episode is released
as well. So OK, yeah, directly after
it'll come out the the followingweek.
I already know that 'cause I have, I'm scheduled all the way
through August. I got all.

(43:41):
I got it all mapped out. I appreciate your support.
Yeah, hey, again, Congrats on the audiobook release.
That's monumental. Honestly, it is.
Oh yeah, it's 14 hours, 2425 minutes, something like that.
It's pretty monumental. I'll tell you, listening to it,

(44:02):
it didn't feel an hour over 25. Thank you.
Yeah. I'm teasing you.
I know. No, it it, it, it kind of rips
by honestly, like because I was,I was doing I.
Wrote a good story. Yeah, I listened to, you know,

(44:23):
one to three chapters if they were short a day, and I feel
like that's a good clip. They land around 1/2 hour.
I mean, some are shorter, some are a few minutes longer.
But for the part they land, I mean, some are shorter.
There's some, but but for the most part, 20 to 30 minutes,

(44:47):
which I think is a nice clip because you can listen to a
couple chapters. That's an hour.
That's about the most and that'sabout that's your grocery trip,
right? Sure, yeah.
Anyway, all right, Michael. Well, I will talk to you later.
Talk to you on Friday. Actually, I'll talk to you
tomorrow. We will.
We'll I'm I'm going to ping. PST but 1:00 PM your time.

(45:09):
Yep. OK.
Is Jaji joining us? Yeah, I'm going to.
I'm going to follow up with her today.
Excellent. OK, I will talk to you then.
See ya. Bye.
We'll talk again before too long.