August 18, 2025 • 44 mins
In this session, we discussed competing with algorithms and platform changes, as well as merchandising our creations via design assets made for books or other media.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
New releases, newer releases. Anunnaki up on Film Z.
If you haven't watched it yet, it is available on the streaming
platform. Hopefully more in the nearest
future. Can never predict how
distribution's going to go, but it's up there now.
It's on iOS and Android, Google TV, Roku, all your favorites.
(00:28):
Also audio book is out for this month.
That is The King in Yellow, a selection from The King in
Yellow called The Mask by RobertW Chambers.
It is about 40 minutes long, Nice Art nouveau story full of
sound effects and some music that I played.
In fact, some stuff I had written a while back but used
(00:52):
for this, I felt it. It worked for the aesthetic.
Also Thursday, film 3 Space, we have an interview on there.
Chris hosts. It should be good.
The guy who's going to be comingon as our guest is a talker from
way back last the session from 2weeks ago is up on podcast
(01:20):
platforms as well. So if you are looking for
something to listen to, it's outthere.
I don't know what you've been upto, what you've been writing, if
you can drop comments, that evenhelps guide the conversation a
little bit. Stuff I'm working on right now
is basically paperback for release this fall, slated for
(01:44):
November. I'm making good progress.
I am shocked with how far I am though.
It's a lot of work. So I still have probably like
40% of the layout to do on that.And I'm hoping by the end of
this month, if I'm like 80% done, I'd I'd be very happy with
(02:07):
that. There's a lot of month left, but
we'll see. Gosh, you know what?
What other stuff? Oh, I've got a ebook and
audiobook that I'm wrapping up for next month.
That'll be pretty cool. It's a longer essay piece on a
topic that I like. I'll start promoting it towards
(02:29):
the end of this month. You know, who wants to hear
about a project that's not out when you have new stuff you just
released this week? That's my sentiment on it.
Gosh, other stuff that I've beendoing, there's been, I got an
article coming out next week forthe writers on my sub stack, so
(02:53):
that'll get dropped into your inbox no charge.
Other things I'm working on, man, it just bouncing between
the stuff I try and keep a handful of like short form
stuff, long form stuff kind of in the hopper to work through
and kind of keep pace with. There is a new development this
(03:16):
week. One of the generative AI
platforms I use and have been inthe creative partner program for
is revamping their partner program and they're kicking
everyone out at the end of this month.
So I'm trying to use it all up before for A my credits run out
(03:40):
and B, the timeline runs out 'cause I don't know if I'll get
readmitted, hopefully I will. It has definitely caused a bit
of a stir in the community. They, they probably had too many
people in their partner program in general.
They are whittling it down to maybe a 10th of what's in there,
(04:02):
at least to start with, maybe even less.
I don't really know. We're all kind of speculating.
I have reapplied and, you know, God willing, I'll get back in
there so I can keep doing new stuff with that platform.
Not to say that they have everything or they're the best.
You know, I think that in general you want to explore all
(04:28):
kinds of different tools and this is applicable for video
work or audio or writing, you know, broadly.
I know I talk about using generative tools in tandem with
more organic or analog stuff, and I think that's a good way of
(04:48):
going about it. We only have so much time and
have to delegate ourselves and the tools that we have towards
the most effective use of that stuff.
And if you want to be a writer and spend time writing well,
some other things like promotional videos, I don't
(05:11):
really see a problem with using generative AI for promo videos.
I don't really see a problem with it creating covers if you
get stuff you're satisfied with.Obviously if you are an artist a
a good artist and you can manufacture that stuff on your
own. I'm not, but if you are, then
(05:34):
that's fantastic. If you have the budget for
working with traditional artistsor even if you do some sketching
and then clean that stuff up with AI or even design tools
like Illustrator, you can make adrawing there and toss it into
other stuff and you know, clack on the keyboard a bit and you
(05:56):
never know what you'll get out of them.
If you're good, you're going to get hopefully good stuff out of
them. But I feel like there's maybe an
equal amount of curiosity and animosity about tools and
people's work flows. And honestly, I think that at an
(06:17):
indie level, you kind of just need to be focused on turning
out work regularly and building an audience that is supporting
you regularly as well. And getting caught up in the
ideological conversations about technology, it's probably going
(06:38):
to slow down your output. So for me generally, you know,
I'm, I'm not super concerned with stuff.
I've always used technology to, to make art and media and be
creative. So it's not a big stretch.
(07:01):
I mean, if you're playing music and you're playing guitar and
you're pushing electricity through that and you're
recording and then you're doing editing on that for the best
take. I mean, how big of a jump is
that from editing to general manufacturing?
(07:21):
Hey, what's up? Grab a mic.
We're just talking tools generally.
I am talking tools generally andand being able to stay creative
as a result of using the tools. I hope you were, I hope you were
(07:44):
recording. We'll find out.
You're coming up. Let's see if you're live.
How is it? Do we have you?
Yeah, yeah, give me a second. I'm just moving spaces.
I What's up? Yeah, just I was just kind of
(08:08):
running down some of the intro stuff, and then one of the
platforms that I've been a creative partner with is
revamping that program and they're kicking everyone off of
it at the end of the month and making everyone reapply.
I don't know if I'll get back in.
Hopefully I will, but what is it?
It's Luma. I think I've mentioned that one
(08:29):
to you before. Yeah, they're, they don't know
what they're I, I don't. Yeah, all the the 3D stuff is
kind of, I don't know. It's there's not so much 3D as
video. I mean, they started out in 3D.
Say I said 3D but I meant video,sorry.
(08:52):
Well, the IT funny slip of the tongue because they, they did
start out with 3D stuff, but they pivoted over to video and
that's where they kind of had some traction with it.
But now they're trying to make some inroads 'cause they're
basically trying to catch up to a handful of the other platforms
(09:13):
that have really, you know, justtaken the lead on things,
particularly Runway, who, you know, their tools are fantastic,
but also their relationships arereally taking off.
I mean, they just partnered withIMAX this month to do yeah, to
(09:35):
do a showing towards the end of the month of work that used
Runway. They've partnered with
Lionsgate, I think that was announced last year.
And then there was another production company that
announced A partnership with Runway.
So I mean, in, in the grand scheme of things, they've been
around since like 2017 or 2018 with editing tools and you could
(09:58):
be like, oh, it's an overnight success in the last two years
now. They've been hammering for a
long time to, to create a suite of tools for people to use and,
and put to work. And it's finally started to
really pay off for them. They also, I think got a pretty
decent cash infusion, if it wasn't earlier this year, it was
(10:20):
last year. I think it was like a Series C
with an evaluation, a pretty good evaluation.
I don't remember exactly what itwas.
But either way, like their theirrunway is good in in the sense
of like their cash on hand to dodevelopment and promotion and
(10:41):
hiring. Their user base is good, their
work is good, their technology is good, their relationships are
good. And like, here's the thing at an
they're very much an indie technology that's like making
inroads into traditional Hollywood in production.
But that is a model I think thateverybody needs to be paying
(11:02):
attention to. Like regardless of whether
you're doing video or you're doing audio or you're doing
writing as we are, like these platforms that we've relied on
over the last handful of years are shifting and changing.
Or they're maybe they're offering audio ebooks now like
Spotify. Maybe they're changing their
(11:25):
payout slightly like Amazon is doing with KDP and potentially
doing with Audible as well. And you have to start really
thinking about diversifying yourdistribution channels so that
you can make sure that you're maximizing for yourself, but
also that people are able to getyou wherever they are.
(11:47):
Well, most people, let's be honest, most people are going to
look on Amazon. I mean, they are, but that's
that's. It's like music, right?
OK, so most people are going to look to like the Top 40, say,
just as AI mean. I realize it's changed now, but
let's just just just for argument's sake, there's, you
(12:09):
know, and then there's going to be the people who are, you know,
the the much smaller group of people who are going to be
searching. They're going to go to the weird
little record store and they're going to find, you know, all the
weird little albums and all the indie stuff and all the imports
and all that, all that stuff. But still, the majority of
(12:29):
people are going to be looking to that Top 40.
We're already the weird little record store, so I know, but and
our audiences are the weird little record store buyers.
Yeah, fair enough. But I mean, the The thing is, I
mean, what is KDP doing? What are they changing?
(12:51):
I don't even, you know, I'm, I'mterrible at paying attention to
this stuff. I.
Earlier this year they announcedthat they were changing the
royalty payout for paperbacks priced under 999.
I think it was. So I, I can't remember the exact
(13:11):
change on that. Yeah, but it affects a lot of
other people, you know, So that's I know.
I mean, because you can, you canprice your paper bag wherever
you want. I mean, I would just price it at
1099 just out of. Dollar here, I'll I'll read it
to you. So it's anything under 999.
So on June 10th, they changed the royalty rates for books
(13:33):
priced below 999 from 60 to 50%.So that's in addition to the
print cost and the other choicesthat you make in terms of paper
and color and all this other stuff for people that are doing
strictly editorial and you're already priced above that, well,
(13:55):
you know, then you're fine in general.
But for other projects, you know, it's it's inhibitive for
cheap novella stuff. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know
where to, I'll figure out where to price the novella, but.
Hopefully, yeah. What were you working on?
(14:16):
Were you recording today? No, I was.
Not recording. Today I know I I got distracted
with some other stuff. I've been editing the Fort very
seriously. Nice.
Yeah, good. So it's not like I mean, and you
know, I have there's life, you know, I have to like do other
(14:37):
things besides. Well, how far along into the
Fort are you? Editing wise.
Sure. I'm a serious edit through the
go through of the draft. I'm around.
Let's see. I'll just double check.
I'm not that far. And I mean, I've I've looked
(14:59):
through the whole thing obviously, but I've done some
hardcore editing. I'm at chapter 14.
Nice out of what? Probably 45 again or something.
Yeah, yeah, right. I just 46 now because I just
split a chapter into two chapters.
It was too long and it made it made sense to break it up.
(15:22):
So like chapter what is now chapter 12 and 13 was before
just chapter 12? Gotcha.
So, and it was too long and it it was covering too much
territory really split. I mean, there was a very, you
know, if you do that, sometimes there's a very clear point at
which, you know, you've just kept going, but really you
started another section. So I did, I split those two.
(15:49):
So then they're both, it was like, it was like almost 4000
words. I, I feel like this the, the
sweet spot for a chapter is somewhere between for me.
I'd say I, I aim around 3000 words for a chapter, but
sometimes it's a little less, sometimes it's a little more.
(16:09):
But when you start hitting 4000 words, that's a really long
chapter. So.
You know what I mean? Whatever feels good, you know?
It just, and it made sense to break it in part for what was
happening because there was, yeah.
That's the better line of thinking.
I, I, I think you know. Yeah, I think so.
(16:30):
I mean, and I think you know, people reading, we have a we it
it you, you like to kind of havethat break.
People like to take a moment, read, have a little break.
I have this much or have the reading as a break from
something. I can read this much today or I
can read this much today. I can get a chapter in.
Yeah, that's fair. If they can predict about how
(16:53):
long they will have to spend on your book.
You know what? What I really like, not only the
people that read, but people that just collect, you know,
they just buy books. They just have them, you know,
read them or not, it's fine. What's the There's a Japanese
term for that? I don't, I don't, I don't know.
(17:15):
No, there is. There's a Japanese term for
people who collect books. I I believe you.
Oh gosh, I have to go find it now.
Bibliophile, that's not. No, it's a Japanese word.
It's almost like Sudoku, but it's not Sudoku, obviously,
because that's the game. But I my brain twists those two
(17:35):
together and I can never remember it.
Is it like Sudoku in the sense that it is Japanese?
Or is it like Sudoku in the sense that the word is similar
to the word Sudoku as we perceive it as English speakers?
Similar Japanese word that mean?Yeah, it's similar to the word
Sudoku. From our Western brains and
(17:58):
ears. Correct all.
Right. Fair enough.
I'm going to find that word. It's been around on here and
I've even posted it. It's sundoku TSUND.
OK U. That's why I say see how so
close it is to sudoku. It's sun sun doku.
(18:19):
I don't out of the TS. I think is sun right.
It's almost like Sue, it basically means to stack things
up and leave them to read, you know?
So it's like the habit without. Yeah.
So it's the idea. Jenga for books.
Yeah, but it's like it's self. Yeah, it's a it basically means
(18:42):
you've collected them. It's like little pieces of of
hope. It refers to the act of
acquiring books and letting thempile up unread.
A gentle, almost affectionate tone I'm looking at.
Yeah, I'm fine with that. You know, it's better if they
read them. But you know, what can you do?
Can't make people read you? Know it's it's what you're
(19:05):
saying. I mean, yeah, I mean, the
intention is always to read a book you buy.
I don't think anyone buys a booksaying I will not read this.
It's just how many books. If you buy a lot of books all at
once, you get yourself a little behind, so to speak.
Yeah, absolutely. I've been trying to keep up with
reading as best as I can, but the really like physical reads
(19:30):
are just out the window this year, I can tell you that much.
Audio books I'm doing fine with,but really my Yeah, well, 'cause
I walk or when you're driving and stuff, you can listen.
But yes, The thing is, I mean, Idid a couple of physical reads
here and there for stuff I was just working my way through, but
(19:59):
some of the stuff I listened to was so long that it pushes back
the option to get into somethingelse.
So now I'm, I'm trying to kind of look at some like shorter
stuff. I I did a little bit of Cormac
McCarthy. This year his stuff was that was
a little bit shorter that even rereads like the the road, you
(20:19):
know, I own that physically, butI've never listened to the audio
book. So I feel like kind of
revisiting that stuff. I think I watched the movie
earlier this year and then I waslike, I should listen to that
and see, you know, just how someof this stuff carries over.
I I think that's a really good line of thinking in general,
like from a yeah, from a creative sense, like watching a
(20:41):
movie, reading the book, listening to the audio book, you
know, all that stuff. And even, and by extension, even
listening to soundtracks. Speaking of which, I spent some
time today, this morning, I needed to revamp the website for
the Chicago 1893 project. This month is seven years since
(21:06):
I started that project here on Twitter as a long form thread.
Yeah, I started in August of 2018 and I was like, you know,
what it deserves is a little refresh on the website 'cause it
was, you know, it was old, it was out of date.
It would look, it looked like crap.
I think at this point it was fine as a placeholder, but
(21:29):
realistically I just wanted to clean it up a little bit.
I basically just took my websitetemplate and dumped it over
there and, and moved some of thestuff around.
So it's very, it's very basic, but at the same time, like it is
probably easier to navigate and in the more importantly, it's
(21:49):
easier to guide people to the endpoints that are point of
sale. You know, that is, I think what
we as authors and creatives needto really be doing, not for, you
know, each other so much as the the broader audiences we develop
is like, make it easy on them toget to your thing, whether
(22:14):
that's through like making social media and like, you know,
I'm looking at you, Eric. I'm looking at everybody who
buries your links, like put thatstuff in the first post, put it
above the fold, like don't make me click three times to get over
to the link that I need to click.
(22:35):
Just put it there. There's only so many of us that
are clicking through to these links, you know, for everybody,
broadly speaking. And if you don't do that, you're
optimizing for hollow engagement.
I don't need likes, you know what I mean?
I need, I need click throughs, Ineed reads, I need views, I
(22:55):
need, I need people being makingit easy for them to land on the
point of sale. You know, I need them at the
register. And when you make them do more
clicking, you're, you're creating this micro instance of,
of potential distraction. Maybe they start reading the
(23:15):
comments, maybe they start seeing an ad.
There's ads inside of these networks now when they click
into stuff. So now they're going to see
somebody else's ad instead of the thing that you wanted them
to click on. And we have to, we have to
maximize and prioritize not onlyour potential, but the, the ease
of use for the people that find us by happenstance or follow us
(23:40):
regularly just because it's, it's Hardy tough enough, you
know, it's already hard enough. You got these companies burying
our, our indie stuff, raising the, the rates, lowering the
royalty rates, you know, all kinds of stuff.
They, they got algorithms plotting against us, you know,
make it easy. That's that's my thing.
(24:02):
And like, I, I realize you know,they're they're de prioritizing
posts with links, but what's thedifference between a
deprioritized post with a link and a post that's buried in a
thread that doesn't get seen because people aren't clicking
(24:23):
and scrolling and then clicking again and going to the next
website and all this other stuff.
I can tell you mathematically it's better just to have it in
that first post, having having gone around all these things and
and done some of this testing broadly with different accounts
(24:45):
and stuff. I mean, gosh, grab them.
You know, that's my thinking. So back to the point here, the
Chicago 1893 website has been revamped.
There's only three things to do on there.
You either go check out the documentary, check out the book,
or check out the soundtrack. I took off the merch link.
I took off the extended reality stuff.
(25:06):
It was out of date. There is, I had AI, had the
short version of the AI cut of the documentary up there.
No need, you know, they people don't need it.
I don't need them watching that.I need them clicking through to
where they can buy or rent the documentary or get the book or
you know maybe if anything, you know, just listen to some tunes.
(25:29):
I think on band camp you get like 3 free plays.
Sometimes people buy stuff you know, and that's what we are
striving to do. I do need to find a new kind of
package to merch scenario. I think the one I was using, I
don't know if they're still up or they did something.
I don't I don't know. Anyway, looking for that.
(25:51):
No, I mean, what's that? It's merch, it merchandise.
I, I kind of feel like it's better as like a loss leader.
I mean, I don't really have any at the moment, but I'm just
saying. What do you mean a loss leader?
A loss leader, basically something.
How is it a loss leader? Money on.
To how are you losing money on print on demand merch?
(26:12):
A lot of these merch platforms function the same way that KDP
does. So when people order a piece of
merch, it's produced just for them and shipped drop shipped
just to them. So I mean, there's no, there's
no loss leader on that. No, I'm just saying I don't know
the I mean, I'm trying to figureout the point of creating
(26:32):
merchandise. It's like it's it's really just
a time issue in my mind. If you got a brand.
How much time do I spend creating this thing that isn't
really the thing that I want to be creating?
That's all I'm saying. Depends on the size of the
audience. And like for the Chicago project
that the Colombian exposition asa topic, as a theme, as a
(26:52):
broader brand outside of my project has a very large
audience. I know that people are regularly
doing research on it and producing other books and other
work and antiques and there's a community around that
thematically, they do buy merch.They have bought merch off the
(27:14):
stores that I've had up in the past.
I, I just haven't kept up with it because I've been doing all
this other stuff and it does take a little bit of time.
But here's the thing. As soon as you develop some
graphics, slap it on a cup, you know, or you've got some images,
put them on pillows, put them oncups, you know, whatever and
find the find a little bit of time test stuff out.
(27:37):
We do these tests, we discover the viability of these tests.
And you know what got it? What's the, what's the quote
from Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park?
It's you packaged it and then you you slapped it on a lunch
box and then you want to sell itor whatever.
That's yes, I'm there for it. All right, I'm going to.
(28:01):
I'm going to just listen for a little bit.
I got to, I got something I got to do around now.
Oh. Jesus, what do you oh.
Jesus, Yeah, I have to go into the kitchen, and you know, my
kitchen is where the trolls are,so if I bring the phone in
there, I'll drop anyway. But no.
Well, I can leave the mic open, but I got to leave the phone
(28:23):
outside the room. I'll tell you what to do.
Well, so when you're talking mugs and stuff, it's usually
like those weird drop ship companies that are.
Make. Garbage that make garbage
products. So it's like.
I don't want to have garbage products connected to my to my.
To. My things I care about.
(28:45):
See what I'm saying? Because to me, that leaves a bad
taste in people's mouths. You're, you're making blanket
statements. Fair enough.
Because you don't know all thesecompanies and you so you haven't
you haven't tried all of these companies.
So the question is, are there companies out there that are do
that, that don't make junk? Yeah, there are.
So that's the key, right? Yeah, and that's what I'm
(29:07):
asking. You know who?
Who are people using now, you know?
Because, I mean, I don't think it benefits you to have junk
connected to your to your. Work.
No, no, I had, I did some shirts, I had a hoodie.
I have, I had gotten a hoodie and I still have that hoodie and
it still looks good. The problem is not the quality
(29:29):
of the merchandise, it's the quality of the design that we
are putting onto the merchandise.
It's a bigger issue of our work going into that than it is of
the manufacturing and productionside.
Well, OK, I can put a great design on a piece of crap
T-shirt, right? And it's still a piece of crap
(29:50):
T-shirt. And I mean, maybe it's just me,
but I would notice that. Yeah, but you also misheard me,
OK? Because I said the issue is our
design. So realistically.
If you're putting it on A at shirt where the fabric is made
of garbage, where it's just like.
Yeah, but the fabric's not made of garbage.
(30:10):
Here's what I'm saying to you isthat, like, you have to know how
to design for those products. You can't think that the same
design you're doing for a book is going to work over, on and by
extension plastics and fabrics and all the rest.
OK, I'm not. I'm not so much saying that.
(30:32):
I'm just saying. It's like I'm saying, that's
what I'm saying. I've, I, Heidi, I heard you.
I know that I've already heard you.
I've, I've bought these things from different outlets and yes,
sometimes they're crap, but they're not most of the time
crap. So like these sorts of blanket
(30:54):
statements about them, you know,my, my artistic integrity and I
don't want to just slap my stuffon these products.
You know, I, I hear you, but that's just a wishy washy
statement. And that's not the case about
most of these places. The bigger issue, and I'm
telling you this because I bought this stuff and I've seen
the results of it is the design.It is not the product.
(31:18):
What companies are you using where the product I mean,
because you know what I'm sayingis.
I'm not using any right now, that's all I'm asking.
All right. CafePress used to be decent a
long time ago. Is it, I don't know that it
still is. That's my, that's the point I'm
trying to make. I understand what you're saying
about the design part, but I, I'm not even addressing that.
(31:41):
I, I'm, I'm more concerned if I were to do something like that
with one, how much value would it be?
And two, I I want to make sure that whatever company I use
isn't selling junk. Well, you can get test prints of
them. And then I would get into the
design side of it. That's kind of like my third
concern, honestly. No design, first quality of the
(32:05):
product. Well, maybe it's just that I
have really high, high high estimation of my design.
Ability. Yeah, Well, I think I do.
Pretty. Maybe you do.
Maybe you do. That's not to say that it's good
or bad for books, book covers, Ithink you do.
Good for merch design, you know,yet to be seen, right?
(32:31):
But here's the thing, the brand design and extending out the
ecosystem of our projects into these other places, one form or
another, is something that you should be thinking about.
Do you want to create super highquality stuff?
Yeah, of course. But I also bought Air Jordans
(32:53):
that fell apart like total junk when I was a kid.
And, you know, they were outrageously priced.
This stuff happens. I'm not saying that it's good or
bad. I'm not saying that you should
do bad or put out crap. I'm that I'm purely asking, you
know, what are the places that are doing this that are worth
(33:16):
looking at? Well, that's that's my question
too. Yeah, but why even worry about
any of that if you don't have a design, if you don't have
anything to put on the merch that you're confident is good to
go on the merch, why are you going to start evaluating merch
stuff without having anything toput on it?
(33:38):
Well. But OK, I, I feel that I, I do
that's, that's, that was the least of my concerns going
forward. I know that I can, I, I stand
confident that that isn't going to be my problem.
Let me just say that that's why,that's why I skipped over it.
But yes, I, I agree for anyone looking at it, yeah, you, you
(34:01):
need to have what it is you're going to put on it in the first
place. So my, my, my focus was more.
It's like I'm, I'm, you know, confident I could do that.
My, my concern was more the time, is it worth it for me to
do it? And two, and if I do do it,
(34:21):
where OK, so yes, so you know, who do I go?
Who do I go with to to have a quality that I'm I'm happy with?
That's what I want to discover. Yes, that was my question.
So does anyone know? I mean, beyond doing custom made
(34:42):
stuff that you're then shipping out yourself, which is totally
an option too. I mean that that's going to be
say you have access to a screen printer.
Yeah, like that. I mean, that's, that's the
number one way to go. I used to know people doing
screen printing for for fabric and that was fantastic.
(35:07):
But here's the here's the other side of that too.
That cost is high upfront cost. And also you gotta you, you're,
you still have to do the design,you still have to drive the
traffic and then you also have to do the packaging and the
(35:27):
shipping. So you're already talking about,
you know, I don't have the time to put together to design the to
evaluate the thing. Is it even going to be worth it?
You know, Hey, you know, it's, it's all it, it all kind of goes
together, I suppose, to a degree.
Oh yeah, that's, that's the thing I'm trying to weigh with,
(35:49):
you know, with, with all the other.
In your mind, what do you have? No, this is a question new
prompt. In your mind, what do you think
from your the design tools that you presently have and the
design assets that you presentlyhave is viable to merchandise
(36:11):
from your books? So I already made a laptop cover
of my cover for the desert whichlooks pretty cool and I know it
looks cool cuz when I've been out and about with it.
Every cool kid. Yeah, they're like, where'd you
get that? Every cool kid, yeah.
Every cool kid. Yeah, the Apple Store when my
(36:33):
computer broke, he's like, that's the coolest cover.
Where'd you get it anyway? So one person that's my anyway.
But the point is. So I did do that, but it's.
So you have a sample size of oneon that all right.
Well, The thing is, it's fallingapart, and every time I've
bought a computer cover, they fall apart.
I don't buy computer covers. I don't cuz I think that
(36:54):
they're, it's, I don't think that that's actually a real
thing. Well, I did because it was my
book cover. So I, I it was fun for me you.
Know but. I'm like, well, and then I've
tried to do mugs. I looked at doing a mug or
something like that and what? Were you going to put on it?
(37:16):
I'll tell you what I'd put on it.
I right now I'd put the cover for the house that Jack built on
a on something because that no, no, I think it's a great cover.
I'm not telling you it's a bad cover.
I'm just telling you I wouldn't put that on a mug.
Here's what I would put on a mug.
I would put the branded song list and then just the eyes.
(37:40):
Yeah, well, that's kind of what's on the cover I took.
I mean, actually I took the branding off.
Dang it, there's a family in here.
I took the the I'm sorry, there's a family in my kitchen.
It's making me crazy. So it's going to land on food,
(38:03):
and that's just gross. Depends on your diet.
No, it really, really doesn't. So yeah, the that's what I did
on the laptop. I, I actually, but it's because
it's my laptop. I took all the text off it.
You're right. If I were to do something, it's
(38:25):
a marketing piece, I would absolutely leave the text on it
and and song list would be the only thing that would really be
needed because that's the overall brand.
Yeah, but what I'm saying is no background, no background, just
the eyes and the the typeset forsong list.
(38:46):
On the mug. Yeah, on everything.
Maybe. Yeah, definitely it's.
Interesting. Interesting.
I don't know. I have to look see what that
looks like 'cause I would have to strip them out.
I don't know if I can 'cause when you, you strip them out, it
doesn't look very good. Just saying.
(39:10):
I, I hear you. It's but you're you're losing
the color palette too if you do that.
Yeah, I know. I mean, oh, shoot, it's
something I can play around withfor sure.
Yeah. So This is why I ask with all
the other. That's what I would do.
No, I get it. I get why you would do that.
(39:33):
You could do. Here's another one you could do.
You could do just the cover withno words on one side and then
song list the desert on the other side.
When that would work for AT shirt that would work for a cup
or a bunch of other a pillow. A bunch of different merch
(39:53):
options you could do. What do people think?
People buy cups? I think cups is probably the
main thing they buy would be my guest.
I mean, they'll buy T-shirts andother apparel, but also like
Nicknacky stuff. The other thing I would say for
(40:15):
that you could extend into wouldbe like the cover image for
Jack's house, but not the title,because the title is a little
bit generic, but you could then put the song list typeset.
I yeah, I don't know. Hey, I mean, it is what it is.
(40:36):
It's fine. It's it's going to cut it is I'm
sorry. Like, you know, it's not a bad
title. It's just a, a very common term
or a common phrase. Let me put it that way, that
like doesn't necessarily connectyour larger project in a great
(40:57):
way. So like what I was going to say
is you could have the cover image and then the song list
typeset on stuff as well with the Jack's house.
Yeah, I I mean. Image I'll.
Have to work that out with all the other things I'm trying to
(41:20):
work out. I mean, definitely have to
figure that out. I I'm missing a dog, uh.
Oh, see. And that's not to say that I
dislike the title. I think the title's perfectly
fitting for it. But at the same time, like when
you are competing with a phrase that's in like the common, I
(41:46):
know, just speech patterns in terms of SEO, man, that's going
to be really tough. Well, I like to make things
difficult for myself, you know. Yeah, well, it's fine.
OK. That's why I'm saying optimize
more around your name, optimize more around the song list and
then the images if you're going to do branded stuff.
(42:09):
Yeah, well, song list is the overall thing, so that one is
the unique part of it. Oh, there's.
I found her. We found that.
I found the dog. She's just taking a nap anyway.
OK, Yeah, I know. I mean, but I do like that
image. I have other images, but I
haven't used them for anything. They're not related to covers
(42:30):
because I don't, you know, that I've just made for myself, but
they're not. Public.
Well, yeah, only in the sense that I don't know where to put
them. I don't really put pictures in
the books, right? And a lot of it's like AI art.
So most of it is honestly. Some of the illustrations you've
made for Jack's house, those arecool.
(42:54):
I mean, those could be those could be some, some things
potentially like a set of things.
Yeah, yeah, those I could. Yeah.
Those, I mean, those are black and white.
Those are black and white because they go in the internal
book. So yeah.
Yeah. Those could work for something
for sure. I mean, so.
So what kind of stuff are you doing for?
(43:14):
You have T-shirts, You have sweatshirts.
I'm going to need a minute, Michael.
I'm going to mute. It's all good.
Well, here, here's what I'll sayis we'll just wrap it up because
we're about to close down anyway.
And you know, if you're heading off to do your thing, you know,
that's all right. We've been here.
We've been here for a while. And I do appreciate you coming
(43:36):
in and talking and, and letting us explore these ideas of
extending merchandise as authors, brand makers of
creation, you know, and, and being creatives and extending
the work we do into new territories because I think
(43:57):
that's important. You know, we have just books,
but people want to participate in a world, you know, and
something that they can be immersed in.
And, you know, it's tough to do that with only one thing.
I think once you have like a series of stuff, and this is not
something that I really have, like the the National Park stuff
(44:18):
is a series. But, you know, I don't know how
immersed into a series of national parks you get, unless
you're like hardcore national Parker.
But all the same, you know this has gone well and we will talk
again before too long.
New releases, newer releases. Anunnaki up on Film Z.
If you haven't watched it yet, it is available on the streaming
platform. Hopefully more in the nearest
future. Can never predict how
distribution's going to go, but it's up there now.
It's on iOS and Android, Google TV, Roku, all your favorites.
(00:28):
Also audio book is out for this month.
That is The King in Yellow, a selection from The King in
Yellow called The Mask by RobertW Chambers.
It is about 40 minutes long, Nice Art nouveau story full of
sound effects and some music that I played.
In fact, some stuff I had written a while back but used
(00:52):
for this, I felt it. It worked for the aesthetic.
Also Thursday, film 3 Space, we have an interview on there.
Chris hosts. It should be good.
The guy who's going to be comingon as our guest is a talker from
way back last the session from 2weeks ago is up on podcast
(01:20):
platforms as well. So if you are looking for
something to listen to, it's outthere.
I don't know what you've been upto, what you've been writing, if
you can drop comments, that evenhelps guide the conversation a
little bit. Stuff I'm working on right now
is basically paperback for release this fall, slated for
(01:44):
November. I'm making good progress.
I am shocked with how far I am though.
It's a lot of work. So I still have probably like
40% of the layout to do on that.And I'm hoping by the end of
this month, if I'm like 80% done, I'd I'd be very happy with
(02:07):
that. There's a lot of month left, but
we'll see. Gosh, you know what?
What other stuff? Oh, I've got a ebook and
audiobook that I'm wrapping up for next month.
That'll be pretty cool. It's a longer essay piece on a
topic that I like. I'll start promoting it towards
(02:29):
the end of this month. You know, who wants to hear
about a project that's not out when you have new stuff you just
released this week? That's my sentiment on it.
Gosh, other stuff that I've beendoing, there's been, I got an
article coming out next week forthe writers on my sub stack, so
(02:53):
that'll get dropped into your inbox no charge.
Other things I'm working on, man, it just bouncing between
the stuff I try and keep a handful of like short form
stuff, long form stuff kind of in the hopper to work through
and kind of keep pace with. There is a new development this
(03:16):
week. One of the generative AI
platforms I use and have been inthe creative partner program for
is revamping their partner program and they're kicking
everyone out at the end of this month.
So I'm trying to use it all up before for A my credits run out
(03:40):
and B, the timeline runs out 'cause I don't know if I'll get
readmitted, hopefully I will. It has definitely caused a bit
of a stir in the community. They, they probably had too many
people in their partner program in general.
They are whittling it down to maybe a 10th of what's in there,
(04:02):
at least to start with, maybe even less.
I don't really know. We're all kind of speculating.
I have reapplied and, you know, God willing, I'll get back in
there so I can keep doing new stuff with that platform.
Not to say that they have everything or they're the best.
You know, I think that in general you want to explore all
(04:28):
kinds of different tools and this is applicable for video
work or audio or writing, you know, broadly.
I know I talk about using generative tools in tandem with
more organic or analog stuff, and I think that's a good way of
(04:48):
going about it. We only have so much time and
have to delegate ourselves and the tools that we have towards
the most effective use of that stuff.
And if you want to be a writer and spend time writing well,
some other things like promotional videos, I don't
(05:11):
really see a problem with using generative AI for promo videos.
I don't really see a problem with it creating covers if you
get stuff you're satisfied with.Obviously if you are an artist a
a good artist and you can manufacture that stuff on your
own. I'm not, but if you are, then
(05:34):
that's fantastic. If you have the budget for
working with traditional artistsor even if you do some sketching
and then clean that stuff up with AI or even design tools
like Illustrator, you can make adrawing there and toss it into
other stuff and you know, clack on the keyboard a bit and you
(05:56):
never know what you'll get out of them.
If you're good, you're going to get hopefully good stuff out of
them. But I feel like there's maybe an
equal amount of curiosity and animosity about tools and
people's work flows. And honestly, I think that at an
(06:17):
indie level, you kind of just need to be focused on turning
out work regularly and building an audience that is supporting
you regularly as well. And getting caught up in the
ideological conversations about technology, it's probably going
(06:38):
to slow down your output. So for me generally, you know,
I'm, I'm not super concerned with stuff.
I've always used technology to, to make art and media and be
creative. So it's not a big stretch.
(07:01):
I mean, if you're playing music and you're playing guitar and
you're pushing electricity through that and you're
recording and then you're doing editing on that for the best
take. I mean, how big of a jump is
that from editing to general manufacturing?
(07:21):
Hey, what's up? Grab a mic.
We're just talking tools generally.
I am talking tools generally andand being able to stay creative
as a result of using the tools. I hope you were, I hope you were
(07:44):
recording. We'll find out.
You're coming up. Let's see if you're live.
How is it? Do we have you?
Yeah, yeah, give me a second. I'm just moving spaces.
I What's up? Yeah, just I was just kind of
(08:08):
running down some of the intro stuff, and then one of the
platforms that I've been a creative partner with is
revamping that program and they're kicking everyone off of
it at the end of the month and making everyone reapply.
I don't know if I'll get back in.
Hopefully I will, but what is it?
It's Luma. I think I've mentioned that one
(08:29):
to you before. Yeah, they're, they don't know
what they're I, I don't. Yeah, all the the 3D stuff is
kind of, I don't know. It's there's not so much 3D as
video. I mean, they started out in 3D.
Say I said 3D but I meant video,sorry.
(08:52):
Well, the IT funny slip of the tongue because they, they did
start out with 3D stuff, but they pivoted over to video and
that's where they kind of had some traction with it.
But now they're trying to make some inroads 'cause they're
basically trying to catch up to a handful of the other platforms
(09:13):
that have really, you know, justtaken the lead on things,
particularly Runway, who, you know, their tools are fantastic,
but also their relationships arereally taking off.
I mean, they just partnered withIMAX this month to do yeah, to
(09:35):
do a showing towards the end of the month of work that used
Runway. They've partnered with
Lionsgate, I think that was announced last year.
And then there was another production company that
announced A partnership with Runway.
So I mean, in, in the grand scheme of things, they've been
around since like 2017 or 2018 with editing tools and you could
(09:58):
be like, oh, it's an overnight success in the last two years
now. They've been hammering for a
long time to, to create a suite of tools for people to use and,
and put to work. And it's finally started to
really pay off for them. They also, I think got a pretty
decent cash infusion, if it wasn't earlier this year, it was
(10:20):
last year. I think it was like a Series C
with an evaluation, a pretty good evaluation.
I don't remember exactly what itwas.
But either way, like their theirrunway is good in in the sense
of like their cash on hand to dodevelopment and promotion and
(10:41):
hiring. Their user base is good, their
work is good, their technology is good, their relationships are
good. And like, here's the thing at an
they're very much an indie technology that's like making
inroads into traditional Hollywood in production.
But that is a model I think thateverybody needs to be paying
(11:02):
attention to. Like regardless of whether
you're doing video or you're doing audio or you're doing
writing as we are, like these platforms that we've relied on
over the last handful of years are shifting and changing.
Or they're maybe they're offering audio ebooks now like
Spotify. Maybe they're changing their
(11:25):
payout slightly like Amazon is doing with KDP and potentially
doing with Audible as well. And you have to start really
thinking about diversifying yourdistribution channels so that
you can make sure that you're maximizing for yourself, but
also that people are able to getyou wherever they are.
(11:47):
Well, most people, let's be honest, most people are going to
look on Amazon. I mean, they are, but that's
that's. It's like music, right?
OK, so most people are going to look to like the Top 40, say,
just as AI mean. I realize it's changed now, but
let's just just just for argument's sake, there's, you
(12:09):
know, and then there's going to be the people who are, you know,
the the much smaller group of people who are going to be
searching. They're going to go to the weird
little record store and they're going to find, you know, all the
weird little albums and all the indie stuff and all the imports
and all that, all that stuff. But still, the majority of
(12:29):
people are going to be looking to that Top 40.
We're already the weird little record store, so I know, but and
our audiences are the weird little record store buyers.
Yeah, fair enough. But I mean, the The thing is, I
mean, what is KDP doing? What are they changing?
(12:51):
I don't even, you know, I'm, I'mterrible at paying attention to
this stuff. I.
Earlier this year they announcedthat they were changing the
royalty payout for paperbacks priced under 999.
I think it was. So I, I can't remember the exact
(13:11):
change on that. Yeah, but it affects a lot of
other people, you know, So that's I know.
I mean, because you can, you canprice your paper bag wherever
you want. I mean, I would just price it at
1099 just out of. Dollar here, I'll I'll read it
to you. So it's anything under 999.
So on June 10th, they changed the royalty rates for books
(13:33):
priced below 999 from 60 to 50%.So that's in addition to the
print cost and the other choicesthat you make in terms of paper
and color and all this other stuff for people that are doing
strictly editorial and you're already priced above that, well,
(13:55):
you know, then you're fine in general.
But for other projects, you know, it's it's inhibitive for
cheap novella stuff. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know
where to, I'll figure out where to price the novella, but.
Hopefully, yeah. What were you working on?
(14:16):
Were you recording today? No, I was.
Not recording. Today I know I I got distracted
with some other stuff. I've been editing the Fort very
seriously. Nice.
Yeah, good. So it's not like I mean, and you
know, I have there's life, you know, I have to like do other
(14:37):
things besides. Well, how far along into the
Fort are you? Editing wise.
Sure. I'm a serious edit through the
go through of the draft. I'm around.
Let's see. I'll just double check.
I'm not that far. And I mean, I've I've looked
(14:59):
through the whole thing obviously, but I've done some
hardcore editing. I'm at chapter 14.
Nice out of what? Probably 45 again or something.
Yeah, yeah, right. I just 46 now because I just
split a chapter into two chapters.
It was too long and it made it made sense to break it up.
(15:22):
So like chapter what is now chapter 12 and 13 was before
just chapter 12? Gotcha.
So, and it was too long and it it was covering too much
territory really split. I mean, there was a very, you
know, if you do that, sometimes there's a very clear point at
which, you know, you've just kept going, but really you
started another section. So I did, I split those two.
(15:49):
So then they're both, it was like, it was like almost 4000
words. I, I feel like this the, the
sweet spot for a chapter is somewhere between for me.
I'd say I, I aim around 3000 words for a chapter, but
sometimes it's a little less, sometimes it's a little more.
(16:09):
But when you start hitting 4000 words, that's a really long
chapter. So.
You know what I mean? Whatever feels good, you know?
It just, and it made sense to break it in part for what was
happening because there was, yeah.
That's the better line of thinking.
I, I, I think you know. Yeah, I think so.
(16:30):
I mean, and I think you know, people reading, we have a we it
it you, you like to kind of havethat break.
People like to take a moment, read, have a little break.
I have this much or have the reading as a break from
something. I can read this much today or I
can read this much today. I can get a chapter in.
Yeah, that's fair. If they can predict about how
(16:53):
long they will have to spend on your book.
You know what? What I really like, not only the
people that read, but people that just collect, you know,
they just buy books. They just have them, you know,
read them or not, it's fine. What's the There's a Japanese
term for that? I don't, I don't, I don't know.
(17:15):
No, there is. There's a Japanese term for
people who collect books. I I believe you.
Oh gosh, I have to go find it now.
Bibliophile, that's not. No, it's a Japanese word.
It's almost like Sudoku, but it's not Sudoku, obviously,
because that's the game. But I my brain twists those two
(17:35):
together and I can never remember it.
Is it like Sudoku in the sense that it is Japanese?
Or is it like Sudoku in the sense that the word is similar
to the word Sudoku as we perceive it as English speakers?
Similar Japanese word that mean?Yeah, it's similar to the word
Sudoku. From our Western brains and
(17:58):
ears. Correct all.
Right. Fair enough.
I'm going to find that word. It's been around on here and
I've even posted it. It's sundoku TSUND.
OK U. That's why I say see how so
close it is to sudoku. It's sun sun doku.
(18:19):
I don't out of the TS. I think is sun right.
It's almost like Sue, it basically means to stack things
up and leave them to read, you know?
So it's like the habit without. Yeah.
So it's the idea. Jenga for books.
Yeah, but it's like it's self. Yeah, it's a it basically means
(18:42):
you've collected them. It's like little pieces of of
hope. It refers to the act of
acquiring books and letting thempile up unread.
A gentle, almost affectionate tone I'm looking at.
Yeah, I'm fine with that. You know, it's better if they
read them. But you know, what can you do?
Can't make people read you? Know it's it's what you're
(19:05):
saying. I mean, yeah, I mean, the
intention is always to read a book you buy.
I don't think anyone buys a booksaying I will not read this.
It's just how many books. If you buy a lot of books all at
once, you get yourself a little behind, so to speak.
Yeah, absolutely. I've been trying to keep up with
reading as best as I can, but the really like physical reads
(19:30):
are just out the window this year, I can tell you that much.
Audio books I'm doing fine with,but really my Yeah, well, 'cause
I walk or when you're driving and stuff, you can listen.
But yes, The thing is, I mean, Idid a couple of physical reads
here and there for stuff I was just working my way through, but
(19:59):
some of the stuff I listened to was so long that it pushes back
the option to get into somethingelse.
So now I'm, I'm trying to kind of look at some like shorter
stuff. I I did a little bit of Cormac
McCarthy. This year his stuff was that was
a little bit shorter that even rereads like the the road, you
(20:19):
know, I own that physically, butI've never listened to the audio
book. So I feel like kind of
revisiting that stuff. I think I watched the movie
earlier this year and then I waslike, I should listen to that
and see, you know, just how someof this stuff carries over.
I I think that's a really good line of thinking in general,
like from a yeah, from a creative sense, like watching a
(20:41):
movie, reading the book, listening to the audio book, you
know, all that stuff. And even, and by extension, even
listening to soundtracks. Speaking of which, I spent some
time today, this morning, I needed to revamp the website for
the Chicago 1893 project. This month is seven years since
(21:06):
I started that project here on Twitter as a long form thread.
Yeah, I started in August of 2018 and I was like, you know,
what it deserves is a little refresh on the website 'cause it
was, you know, it was old, it was out of date.
It would look, it looked like crap.
I think at this point it was fine as a placeholder, but
(21:29):
realistically I just wanted to clean it up a little bit.
I basically just took my websitetemplate and dumped it over
there and, and moved some of thestuff around.
So it's very, it's very basic, but at the same time, like it is
probably easier to navigate and in the more importantly, it's
(21:49):
easier to guide people to the endpoints that are point of
sale. You know, that is, I think what
we as authors and creatives needto really be doing, not for, you
know, each other so much as the the broader audiences we develop
is like, make it easy on them toget to your thing, whether
(22:14):
that's through like making social media and like, you know,
I'm looking at you, Eric. I'm looking at everybody who
buries your links, like put thatstuff in the first post, put it
above the fold, like don't make me click three times to get over
to the link that I need to click.
(22:35):
Just put it there. There's only so many of us that
are clicking through to these links, you know, for everybody,
broadly speaking. And if you don't do that, you're
optimizing for hollow engagement.
I don't need likes, you know what I mean?
I need, I need click throughs, Ineed reads, I need views, I
(22:55):
need, I need people being makingit easy for them to land on the
point of sale. You know, I need them at the
register. And when you make them do more
clicking, you're, you're creating this micro instance of,
of potential distraction. Maybe they start reading the
(23:15):
comments, maybe they start seeing an ad.
There's ads inside of these networks now when they click
into stuff. So now they're going to see
somebody else's ad instead of the thing that you wanted them
to click on. And we have to, we have to
maximize and prioritize not onlyour potential, but the, the ease
of use for the people that find us by happenstance or follow us
(23:40):
regularly just because it's, it's Hardy tough enough, you
know, it's already hard enough. You got these companies burying
our, our indie stuff, raising the, the rates, lowering the
royalty rates, you know, all kinds of stuff.
They, they got algorithms plotting against us, you know,
make it easy. That's that's my thing.
(24:02):
And like, I, I realize you know,they're they're de prioritizing
posts with links, but what's thedifference between a
deprioritized post with a link and a post that's buried in a
thread that doesn't get seen because people aren't clicking
(24:23):
and scrolling and then clicking again and going to the next
website and all this other stuff.
I can tell you mathematically it's better just to have it in
that first post, having having gone around all these things and
and done some of this testing broadly with different accounts
(24:45):
and stuff. I mean, gosh, grab them.
You know, that's my thinking. So back to the point here, the
Chicago 1893 website has been revamped.
There's only three things to do on there.
You either go check out the documentary, check out the book,
or check out the soundtrack. I took off the merch link.
I took off the extended reality stuff.
(25:06):
It was out of date. There is, I had AI, had the
short version of the AI cut of the documentary up there.
No need, you know, they people don't need it.
I don't need them watching that.I need them clicking through to
where they can buy or rent the documentary or get the book or
you know maybe if anything, you know, just listen to some tunes.
(25:29):
I think on band camp you get like 3 free plays.
Sometimes people buy stuff you know, and that's what we are
striving to do. I do need to find a new kind of
package to merch scenario. I think the one I was using, I
don't know if they're still up or they did something.
I don't I don't know. Anyway, looking for that.
(25:51):
No, I mean, what's that? It's merch, it merchandise.
I, I kind of feel like it's better as like a loss leader.
I mean, I don't really have any at the moment, but I'm just
saying. What do you mean a loss leader?
A loss leader, basically something.
How is it a loss leader? Money on.
To how are you losing money on print on demand merch?
(26:12):
A lot of these merch platforms function the same way that KDP
does. So when people order a piece of
merch, it's produced just for them and shipped drop shipped
just to them. So I mean, there's no, there's
no loss leader on that. No, I'm just saying I don't know
the I mean, I'm trying to figureout the point of creating
(26:32):
merchandise. It's like it's it's really just
a time issue in my mind. If you got a brand.
How much time do I spend creating this thing that isn't
really the thing that I want to be creating?
That's all I'm saying. Depends on the size of the
audience. And like for the Chicago project
that the Colombian exposition asa topic, as a theme, as a
(26:52):
broader brand outside of my project has a very large
audience. I know that people are regularly
doing research on it and producing other books and other
work and antiques and there's a community around that
thematically, they do buy merch.They have bought merch off the
(27:14):
stores that I've had up in the past.
I, I just haven't kept up with it because I've been doing all
this other stuff and it does take a little bit of time.
But here's the thing. As soon as you develop some
graphics, slap it on a cup, you know, or you've got some images,
put them on pillows, put them oncups, you know, whatever and
find the find a little bit of time test stuff out.
(27:37):
We do these tests, we discover the viability of these tests.
And you know what got it? What's the, what's the quote
from Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park?
It's you packaged it and then you you slapped it on a lunch
box and then you want to sell itor whatever.
That's yes, I'm there for it. All right, I'm going to.
(28:01):
I'm going to just listen for a little bit.
I got to, I got something I got to do around now.
Oh. Jesus, what do you oh.
Jesus, Yeah, I have to go into the kitchen, and you know, my
kitchen is where the trolls are,so if I bring the phone in
there, I'll drop anyway. But no.
Well, I can leave the mic open, but I got to leave the phone
(28:23):
outside the room. I'll tell you what to do.
Well, so when you're talking mugs and stuff, it's usually
like those weird drop ship companies that are.
Make. Garbage that make garbage
products. So it's like.
I don't want to have garbage products connected to my to my.
To. My things I care about.
(28:45):
See what I'm saying? Because to me, that leaves a bad
taste in people's mouths. You're, you're making blanket
statements. Fair enough.
Because you don't know all thesecompanies and you so you haven't
you haven't tried all of these companies.
So the question is, are there companies out there that are do
that, that don't make junk? Yeah, there are.
So that's the key, right? Yeah, and that's what I'm
(29:07):
asking. You know who?
Who are people using now, you know?
Because, I mean, I don't think it benefits you to have junk
connected to your to your. Work.
No, no, I had, I did some shirts, I had a hoodie.
I have, I had gotten a hoodie and I still have that hoodie and
it still looks good. The problem is not the quality
(29:29):
of the merchandise, it's the quality of the design that we
are putting onto the merchandise.
It's a bigger issue of our work going into that than it is of
the manufacturing and productionside.
Well, OK, I can put a great design on a piece of crap
T-shirt, right? And it's still a piece of crap
(29:50):
T-shirt. And I mean, maybe it's just me,
but I would notice that. Yeah, but you also misheard me,
OK? Because I said the issue is our
design. So realistically.
If you're putting it on A at shirt where the fabric is made
of garbage, where it's just like.
Yeah, but the fabric's not made of garbage.
(30:10):
Here's what I'm saying to you isthat, like, you have to know how
to design for those products. You can't think that the same
design you're doing for a book is going to work over, on and by
extension plastics and fabrics and all the rest.
OK, I'm not. I'm not so much saying that.
(30:32):
I'm just saying. It's like I'm saying, that's
what I'm saying. I've, I, Heidi, I heard you.
I know that I've already heard you.
I've, I've bought these things from different outlets and yes,
sometimes they're crap, but they're not most of the time
crap. So like these sorts of blanket
(30:54):
statements about them, you know,my, my artistic integrity and I
don't want to just slap my stuffon these products.
You know, I, I hear you, but that's just a wishy washy
statement. And that's not the case about
most of these places. The bigger issue, and I'm
telling you this because I bought this stuff and I've seen
the results of it is the design.It is not the product.
(31:18):
What companies are you using where the product I mean,
because you know what I'm sayingis.
I'm not using any right now, that's all I'm asking.
All right. CafePress used to be decent a
long time ago. Is it, I don't know that it
still is. That's my, that's the point I'm
trying to make. I understand what you're saying
about the design part, but I, I'm not even addressing that.
(31:41):
I, I'm, I'm more concerned if I were to do something like that
with one, how much value would it be?
And two, I I want to make sure that whatever company I use
isn't selling junk. Well, you can get test prints of
them. And then I would get into the
design side of it. That's kind of like my third
concern, honestly. No design, first quality of the
(32:05):
product. Well, maybe it's just that I
have really high, high high estimation of my design.
Ability. Yeah, Well, I think I do.
Pretty. Maybe you do.
Maybe you do. That's not to say that it's good
or bad for books, book covers, Ithink you do.
Good for merch design, you know,yet to be seen, right?
(32:31):
But here's the thing, the brand design and extending out the
ecosystem of our projects into these other places, one form or
another, is something that you should be thinking about.
Do you want to create super highquality stuff?
Yeah, of course. But I also bought Air Jordans
(32:53):
that fell apart like total junk when I was a kid.
And, you know, they were outrageously priced.
This stuff happens. I'm not saying that it's good or
bad. I'm not saying that you should
do bad or put out crap. I'm that I'm purely asking, you
know, what are the places that are doing this that are worth
(33:16):
looking at? Well, that's that's my question
too. Yeah, but why even worry about
any of that if you don't have a design, if you don't have
anything to put on the merch that you're confident is good to
go on the merch, why are you going to start evaluating merch
stuff without having anything toput on it?
(33:38):
Well. But OK, I, I feel that I, I do
that's, that's, that was the least of my concerns going
forward. I know that I can, I, I stand
confident that that isn't going to be my problem.
Let me just say that that's why,that's why I skipped over it.
But yes, I, I agree for anyone looking at it, yeah, you, you
(34:01):
need to have what it is you're going to put on it in the first
place. So my, my, my focus was more.
It's like I'm, I'm, you know, confident I could do that.
My, my concern was more the time, is it worth it for me to
do it? And two, and if I do do it,
(34:21):
where OK, so yes, so you know, who do I go?
Who do I go with to to have a quality that I'm I'm happy with?
That's what I want to discover. Yes, that was my question.
So does anyone know? I mean, beyond doing custom made
(34:42):
stuff that you're then shipping out yourself, which is totally
an option too. I mean that that's going to be
say you have access to a screen printer.
Yeah, like that. I mean, that's, that's the
number one way to go. I used to know people doing
screen printing for for fabric and that was fantastic.
(35:07):
But here's the here's the other side of that too.
That cost is high upfront cost. And also you gotta you, you're,
you still have to do the design,you still have to drive the
traffic and then you also have to do the packaging and the
(35:27):
shipping. So you're already talking about,
you know, I don't have the time to put together to design the to
evaluate the thing. Is it even going to be worth it?
You know, Hey, you know, it's, it's all it, it all kind of goes
together, I suppose, to a degree.
Oh yeah, that's, that's the thing I'm trying to weigh with,
(35:49):
you know, with, with all the other.
In your mind, what do you have? No, this is a question new
prompt. In your mind, what do you think
from your the design tools that you presently have and the
design assets that you presentlyhave is viable to merchandise
(36:11):
from your books? So I already made a laptop cover
of my cover for the desert whichlooks pretty cool and I know it
looks cool cuz when I've been out and about with it.
Every cool kid. Yeah, they're like, where'd you
get that? Every cool kid, yeah.
Every cool kid. Yeah, the Apple Store when my
(36:33):
computer broke, he's like, that's the coolest cover.
Where'd you get it anyway? So one person that's my anyway.
But the point is. So I did do that, but it's.
So you have a sample size of oneon that all right.
Well, The thing is, it's fallingapart, and every time I've
bought a computer cover, they fall apart.
I don't buy computer covers. I don't cuz I think that
(36:54):
they're, it's, I don't think that that's actually a real
thing. Well, I did because it was my
book cover. So I, I it was fun for me you.
Know but. I'm like, well, and then I've
tried to do mugs. I looked at doing a mug or
something like that and what? Were you going to put on it?
(37:16):
I'll tell you what I'd put on it.
I right now I'd put the cover for the house that Jack built on
a on something because that no, no, I think it's a great cover.
I'm not telling you it's a bad cover.
I'm just telling you I wouldn't put that on a mug.
Here's what I would put on a mug.
I would put the branded song list and then just the eyes.
(37:40):
Yeah, well, that's kind of what's on the cover I took.
I mean, actually I took the branding off.
Dang it, there's a family in here.
I took the the I'm sorry, there's a family in my kitchen.
It's making me crazy. So it's going to land on food,
(38:03):
and that's just gross. Depends on your diet.
No, it really, really doesn't. So yeah, the that's what I did
on the laptop. I, I actually, but it's because
it's my laptop. I took all the text off it.
You're right. If I were to do something, it's
(38:25):
a marketing piece, I would absolutely leave the text on it
and and song list would be the only thing that would really be
needed because that's the overall brand.
Yeah, but what I'm saying is no background, no background, just
the eyes and the the typeset forsong list.
(38:46):
On the mug. Yeah, on everything.
Maybe. Yeah, definitely it's.
Interesting. Interesting.
I don't know. I have to look see what that
looks like 'cause I would have to strip them out.
I don't know if I can 'cause when you, you strip them out, it
doesn't look very good. Just saying.
(39:10):
I, I hear you. It's but you're you're losing
the color palette too if you do that.
Yeah, I know. I mean, oh, shoot, it's
something I can play around withfor sure.
Yeah. So This is why I ask with all
the other. That's what I would do.
No, I get it. I get why you would do that.
(39:33):
You could do. Here's another one you could do.
You could do just the cover withno words on one side and then
song list the desert on the other side.
When that would work for AT shirt that would work for a cup
or a bunch of other a pillow. A bunch of different merch
(39:53):
options you could do. What do people think?
People buy cups? I think cups is probably the
main thing they buy would be my guest.
I mean, they'll buy T-shirts andother apparel, but also like
Nicknacky stuff. The other thing I would say for
(40:15):
that you could extend into wouldbe like the cover image for
Jack's house, but not the title,because the title is a little
bit generic, but you could then put the song list typeset.
I yeah, I don't know. Hey, I mean, it is what it is.
(40:36):
It's fine. It's it's going to cut it is I'm
sorry. Like, you know, it's not a bad
title. It's just a, a very common term
or a common phrase. Let me put it that way, that
like doesn't necessarily connectyour larger project in a great
(40:57):
way. So like what I was going to say
is you could have the cover image and then the song list
typeset on stuff as well with the Jack's house.
Yeah, I I mean. Image I'll.
Have to work that out with all the other things I'm trying to
(41:20):
work out. I mean, definitely have to
figure that out. I I'm missing a dog, uh.
Oh, see. And that's not to say that I
dislike the title. I think the title's perfectly
fitting for it. But at the same time, like when
you are competing with a phrase that's in like the common, I
(41:46):
know, just speech patterns in terms of SEO, man, that's going
to be really tough. Well, I like to make things
difficult for myself, you know. Yeah, well, it's fine.
OK. That's why I'm saying optimize
more around your name, optimize more around the song list and
then the images if you're going to do branded stuff.
(42:09):
Yeah, well, song list is the overall thing, so that one is
the unique part of it. Oh, there's.
I found her. We found that.
I found the dog. She's just taking a nap anyway.
OK, Yeah, I know. I mean, but I do like that
image. I have other images, but I
haven't used them for anything. They're not related to covers
(42:30):
because I don't, you know, that I've just made for myself, but
they're not. Public.
Well, yeah, only in the sense that I don't know where to put
them. I don't really put pictures in
the books, right? And a lot of it's like AI art.
So most of it is honestly. Some of the illustrations you've
made for Jack's house, those arecool.
(42:54):
I mean, those could be those could be some, some things
potentially like a set of things.
Yeah, yeah, those I could. Yeah.
Those, I mean, those are black and white.
Those are black and white because they go in the internal
book. So yeah.
Yeah. Those could work for something
for sure. I mean, so.
So what kind of stuff are you doing for?
(43:14):
You have T-shirts, You have sweatshirts.
I'm going to need a minute, Michael.
I'm going to mute. It's all good.
Well, here, here's what I'll sayis we'll just wrap it up because
we're about to close down anyway.
And you know, if you're heading off to do your thing, you know,
that's all right. We've been here.
We've been here for a while. And I do appreciate you coming
(43:36):
in and talking and, and letting us explore these ideas of
extending merchandise as authors, brand makers of
creation, you know, and, and being creatives and extending
the work we do into new territories because I think
(43:57):
that's important. You know, we have just books,
but people want to participate in a world, you know, and
something that they can be immersed in.
And, you know, it's tough to do that with only one thing.
I think once you have like a series of stuff, and this is not
something that I really have, like the the National Park stuff
(44:18):
is a series. But, you know, I don't know how
immersed into a series of national parks you get, unless
you're like hardcore national Parker.
But all the same, you know this has gone well and we will talk
again before too long.
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