The Post (w/ Roslyn Hernandez)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
It wasn't closely What's the secret thing?
Just got to find something you love to do and then do it for
the rest of your life. I don't want to be a product of
my environment, I want my environment to be a product of

(00:29):
me. Hello and welcome to The
Establishing Shot, a podcast where we do deep dives into
directors and their filmographies.
I am your host, Eli Price and weare here on episode 109 of the

(00:50):
podcast, just chugging along in our Spielberg series as usual,
as we have been for a long time.Kind of like a a quick future
self edit. I I have already recorded the
Ready Player 1 episode and I'm pretty and there was a movie

(01:11):
draft with that. And I'm pretty sure I announced
that as episode 109 because I recorded them backwards and got
my numbers fixed up. And so just future editing
myself. That's actually going to be
episode 111. So when you hear me in that
episode, I'm just wrong. Unless I've added it in Post and
fix what I say, then just ignoreall this.

(01:35):
But this is 109 of the podcast and we are going to be covering
Spielberg's movie The Post today.
Excited. I was excited to revisit this
movie. I saw it in theaters when it
came out and I. Haven't seen it since SO.
I was, yeah, this was one of those that I was like, I'm ready

(01:57):
to revisit this movie. Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep going to
be fun. But to do that with me.
I have a new guest on the show this week.
Rosalynn Hernandez is joining me.
She is a Latino public theologian, content producer,
creative strategist and spiritual director, passionate

(02:17):
about resourcing emerging adultsas they navigate faith, identity
and justice. She does a lot of socio cultural
awareness and integrating kind of spirituality and activism,
kind of a holistic approach to to all those things.
And yeah, just often times kind of doing what we do here,

(02:41):
looking at the intersection of life and culture and a lot of
times specifically theology and culture too, which is cool.
And so, yeah, I'm excited to introduce Roslyn.
I would love for you to kind of expound on some of the the work
that you do and how it maybe start with just in general and

(03:05):
then maybe how it relates to to film, how you kind of got into
doing that sort of work integrated with looking at film
and reviewing movies and stuff. Yeah, so I actually started with
film instead of theology. I have a degree in film and

(03:27):
media studies from UC Santa Barbara, and I think film and
media studies was my first love and like, intellectual love and
artistic love. I've always been passionate
about the art form of image and how cultures represent

(03:50):
themselves and process their themselves through their
cultural products, one of them being film.
So yeah, I do come from a background where film magazines,
books, television is all kind oflooked at through a sociological
lens to see what the culture is thinking about itself and how we

(04:15):
are processing what in a lot of film circles we call the human
condition. And so that really came together
with theology and with social justice for me.
More in seminary where I, well, I guess I would say officially

(04:36):
or formally in seminary because I was already thinking
integratively about how these two come in contact or intersect
with one another, which which issomething that I actually
honestly often had frustrations about when I was younger.

(04:57):
I come from a Christian tradition where the secular is
over there and the like, sacred and like church stuff is over
here. And I always thought that it's
important for us to think of ourselves holistically and to
engage all aspects of ourselves in a way that it's not just holy

(05:21):
or biblical or faith-based, but also in ways that are everyday
political or cultural aspects ofourselves.
And so now, yeah, I got to do that for Real Spirituality,
which is now from Studio F Fuller Seminary.
And then I got to do that with another magazine.

(05:45):
I can't remember the name, like blanking on the name right now,
but OK. So I got to do that with being
Christian as well. And now I'm kind of like writing
on my own, doing podcasts with other people, but I also produce
podcasts. And so I do always try to take
some of that narrative storytelling and sociological

(06:09):
aspect of processing what we're experiencing in life and social
justice and activism and puttingit all together in ways that
particularly younger audiences, young adults, millennials and
Gen. C can understand and engage
with. Yeah, yeah.
Very cool. And so, you know, you, you have

(06:38):
this background in film and thenyou got into theology and then
now you're like, OK, how do I, how do I like marry these two
loves that I've developed? What, what does that look like?
Like what, what sort of things have you written that or what's
your, I guess the better question is like, what is your

(07:00):
framework or methodology throughwhich you like bring those two
lenses together to to like look at film with that kind of
theological, holistic, you know,view of life and analyze film
through that lens as well. What does that looked like for

(07:23):
you? Yes, I've written about pop
culture. I've written about one of the
really fun things that I got to do.
I think it was last year actually, was right about
Beyoncé's latest album, the country music album that she had

(07:45):
and write about how that is, youknow, like theological in some
ways, or how that was theological for me.
But it also goes the other way around.
We do have hermeneutics or ways of reading the Bible that can be
informed by the ways that we approach film and the way that

(08:07):
film is studied. So it kind of does go both ways
and it's helpful for us. And which is something that I
will talk about later or that something that came up for me as
I was watching the post, that really something that my
background in film and media studies has helped me with is in

(08:28):
media literacy, which we needed both for engaging cultural media
products as we need it for engaging the Bible, which is
also a cultural media product for specific people.
Sure. Yeah.
History. Yeah, yeah.
And I, I really like how often times, I guess the way I like to

(08:50):
think of it is like when you watch film or really like
interact with any kind of art film, often times it kind of
they're, they're just like a dialogue with that art and your
life. And you can kind of like bring
who you are to it. And it kind of brings something

(09:12):
out of the arts, whether it's film or something else that
maybe someone else wouldn't see because you're bringing yourself
and your life to it, but also like it's bringing something to
you too that maybe you had neverconsidered before.
A different perspective, maybe an encouragement or an, or a

(09:32):
confirmation or you know, and soit's, it's like this dialogue
that you have with with, you know, in our, in our specific
context of what we're doing withfilm, you know, and I've always
like really loved that and triedto lean into that kind of
dialogue you have with with art and specifically.

(09:53):
Film for me. So, yeah, I really, really
appreciate, you know, kind of that perspective that you're
bringing where, where could people, where's a good place or
central place for like people tokind of keep up with what you're
working on and and that sort of stuff.

(10:13):
Yeah. So I am on social media for now
and for now. So media is also getting a
little a little tricky. But yes, I am on Instagram and
my handle is at Roslyn M Hernandez and I have a website.
So that will be that will continue on and that's Roslyn

(10:37):
hernandez.com. Great.
Yeah. And I'll make sure to link those
in the episode description so people can find them and click
them easy and go follow. But follow for now or you know,
bookmark the website. So Speaking of interacting with
film, we of course are in our Spielberg series covering all of

(11:01):
his films were nearing the end. The post is I think at this as
of this recording, 4th to last. And yeah, it's near the end of
his career. But I always like to ask my
first time, guess what their kind of first memories are of

(11:23):
the director we're covering. So do you have any kind of first
memories of watching a Spielbergmovie or realizing that
Spielberg was a guy? You know, you know, my, actually
my, the first thing that came tomind is actually not something
that he directed, but it's something that he produced.

(11:46):
And it's not a movie. It's a television show.
And it's. It's gonna like age me.
It's very much of my generation.It's the Animaniacs which what
is a? Cartoon.
Series that was out in the 90s, and actually I even wrote a

(12:07):
paper about the Animaniacs when I was an underground.
That's how much I like it. It's one of my favorite
cartoons, and I've just recentlywatched that series that's on
Netflix called Titans. The rise of Hollywood.
And the Warner Brothers story islike, really prominent, a lot

(12:27):
more prominent than it was in my, like, film history classes.
Sure, yeah. So I'm seeing, I'm kind of like
thinking about the Animaniacs ina different light after knowing
more about the history of the Warner Brothers and some
research that I did on my own. So yeah, Yakko, which is one of
the three Animaniac siblings, it's like, oh, OK, interesting.

(12:51):
Got it, Got it. Yeah.
So that's my first memory or thefirst thing that I thought of.
But I think film wise it was, it's probably Indiana Jones or
Jurassic Park, I think. These.
Those are the biggest films of my childhood that were directed
by him. Yeah.

(13:13):
Yeah. I think that's kind of the the
typical response is depending onwhat generation you you're from,
it's either Indiana Jones or Jurassic Park or both sometimes.
But yeah, I mean, that's like, Iknow mine personally is Jurassic
Park, but I mean, there's so many you could you could say ETI

(13:36):
know there's like kind of the the Indiana Jones generation is
the Indiana Jones is the one that stood out, but ET was big
too. And yeah, it's, it's it's just
incredible how kind of we're here.
If you know, we had this is being recorded and released in

(14:00):
2025. It's the 50 year anniversary of
Jaws. And so we have like 5 decades of
Spielberg being kind of on top now.
And so it's just cool to see a director like him that kind of
spans generations. Like every, every like maybe not

(14:21):
like I don't know if Gen. Z has like a Spielberg movie,
maybe West Side Story, maybe is there Gen.
Z's Spielberg movie? I don't know.
They, I need to, I need to kind of like pick some brains of
maybe this can be a project. This can be a project for you
too. After, after this podcast is

(14:42):
pick some brains in the culture and see what the, the Spielberg
movie of the Gen. Z generation is.
Because like, I'm assuming we'rein the, if you're mentioning
Animaniacs, I'm assuming we're in the same millennial
generation. And so, you know, Jurassic Park
is kind of ours. And the one before us was like.

(15:05):
Andy and ET and so. Yeah, I'd be curious to see if
they have like a big one that's that stands out like that was
released in their lifetime, or if it's just kind of reaching
back to those old ones and stillkind of claiming those as the
Spielberg movie of their youth. I don't know.

(15:26):
That'd be interesting to pick some brains and see I might
start doing that. But yeah, let's, let's jump into
the post. Yeah.
This, it began with kind of a young screenwriter named Liz

(15:48):
Hannah. She was.
In her early. 30s had never written really a screenplay
before, had been to film school and done some producing.
But yeah, this was. Really.
Her first? Script and yeah, I mean
basically eventually gets into the hands of Steven Spielberg

(16:09):
and and the rest is history. So you know, Hannah came across
the story of Kay Graham and a book and read herb autobiography
which Kay had one of the Pulitzer Prize for Katherine
Graham that is, and knew that this was potentially going to be

(16:30):
her first screenplay. A little back story on Katherine
Graham. She became the owner and
publisher of The Washington. Post at the age of. 45 or 46 I
think, after her husband's suicide in 1963.
Her dad. Bought the post.
Back in 1933 and then entrusted it to his son-in-law.

(16:52):
Catherine's husband and Kay loved her father's decision, her
her father's choice and never expected to be running the
company. She she thought her husband was
a great choice. He was smart, capable, keeping
good in the family, that sort ofthing.

(17:14):
And this unexpected, you know, event happened and she ended up
with this company in her lap andshe had to decide, am I going to
sell it? And then I got to keep it in my
family to try to keep that legacy alive and decided to keep
it. And it was her first, you know,
the way her daughter described it was it was her first real

(17:35):
job. You know, obviously she's
raising kids, which is a job. And she's doing, I mean, she she
did a lot of charity work too with they, they ran in some
like, you know, rich circles, powerful circles, just being,
you know, growing up in that sort of world.

(17:56):
And but this was her first. Like, I'm going, I'm in charge.
I'm going to work everyday. Yeah.
A proper job, I guess you could say.
And man, in the midst of this, she has to confront the White
House with two scandals, the Pentagon Papers, which is the
subject of this movie in 1971, and then Watergate in 72, which

(18:21):
the end of the movie teases. And all this while turning the
Post into a paper that mattered.And all within a world of
condescending men who looks downon her.
And so, yeah, you know, those Hannah Can't comes across also
the autobiography of the editor Ben Bradley and kind of said

(18:45):
that that unlocked the key to the story or that was the key to
unlock the story of her script. She said, quote, I realized the
movie wasn't only about Kay finding her voice in the
Pentagon Papers and the publishing of them, but it was
the origin story of this superhero team that was Graham
and Bradley UN Quote. So Kay hired been in 1965 and

(19:06):
always had counted that as one of her best decisions she made.
And so, yeah, Hannah writes the script in the summer of 2016.
By October 2016, Amy Pascal, whoused to work for Sony Pictures
and now has her own production company, Pascal Pictures, one a

(19:27):
bid for the script. And she kind of felt the kindred
spirit with K when she read the script.
And her husband was actually a New York Times reporter, so she
had that connection. Her dad worked in the same
office as Daniel Ellsberg at Rand.
So a lot of connections there. And then, yes, she begins to
circle it around Hollywood. And in February 2017, she sends

(19:49):
the script to Amlin producer Krieger, Kristy Mccosco Krieger,
who we've heard before does a lot of producing of Spielberg
films. And Spielberg had just had to
cancel The Kidnapping of EdgardoMorarta, a film that he was kind
of in in the works of getting started and kind of cancelled

(20:12):
that early 2017. Reads the script for this in
February and just jumps on it. The themes hotly debated topics
around the Trump administration.The quote, quote, UN quote
alternative facts of the inauguration attendance, the
tweet tirades of the president at the time just really wanting

(20:38):
to, you know, jump on this film and address this topic.
And also a lot of coincidental connections to the people.
He had known Bradley long beforethe film came about.
Ben Bradley, that is, they had neighboring homes in East
Hampton on Long Island. He had dedicated the film to

(20:59):
Nora Efron, who had who passed in 2012.
She was a journalist, writer, director.
You probably recognize her name.She lived in East Hampton too,
across the street from Ben Bradley, and had worked briefly
on All the President's Men. Their script wasn't used, but
nonetheless, a lot of interesting connections there.
Spielberg even said if he if shewas still alive, Nora Ephron

(21:21):
would have directed this movie. So, yeah, months before filming,
the cast is locked in. You know, Josh Singer brought on
writer of Spotlight, did work onThe West Wing.
And yes, Spielberg really wants to bring the way to factual
accuracy to the story before filming.

(21:43):
You know, he he brings things like Nixon's voice being brought
in. He'd he'd listened to a bunch of
recordings from the Nixon White House and and incorporated that
into the film. He did a lot of consultation
with post and times journalist Kay's son and grandson and
daughter and people close to BenBradlee and Daniel Ellsberg was

(22:07):
brought in to consult. So they just wanting to bring
the weight of that to the movie.But nonetheless, during pre
production, the there was some protesting from the staff at the
New York Times, the Pentagon paper, you know, was their scoop
and their name was the one that appeared on the Supreme Court

(22:28):
decision. And they felt a certain way
about it in May of 2017. So I mean, there's they're not
even probably filming yet. Some New York Times people in
the Columbia Journalism Review called Spielberg's future film
stupid and took offense at Graham and the Post being put on
equal footing with them. I think it's a little dumb, but

(22:51):
whatever. Screenwriters were aware of this
ambiguity ambiguity and insistedthat the focus is not on that
sort of thing but on explain thepapers change in statutory
leading to Watergate, which I think you know is important.

(23:13):
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(23:56):
Check out that link in the show notes to learn more.
Back to the show. This is one of those, you know,
when you look through the the crew of this movie, it's kind of
like the typical Spielberg crew.So you you've got Janish
Kaminsky at the camera as the DP.
You have Michael Kahn doing the editing with there's been a

(24:21):
couple movies in a row where he has a Co editor with Cher
Brashear. So I don't know if this is like
a passing of the baton when Michael Kahn is an editing any
more than Sarah Brashear will edit the Spielberg movies if he
keeps making them. John Williams doing the score,
of course, his kind of typical sound guys with Gary Rydstrom

(24:44):
and Richard Hems, who I imagine we're just like recording a
bunch of typewriters for this movie.
Rick Carter is the production designer and and Roth doing
costumes. I think she's worked with him
before. And yeah, I mean, it's really

(25:06):
Ellen Lewis does the casting. She does a lot of Spielberg
casting and. I mean, this is just like when
you watch this movie and I'll kind of like just it's, it's a
movie. Like it's a film.
It's it moves and it's like it'sefficient and it looks really

(25:27):
good. And there's not really to me
like there's not really a lot ofwasted space in this movie.
And it to me, it just speaks to kind of this.
It's kind of like a veteran crewthat just like knows how to turn
those gears and and pump out a movie.
Yeah. Do you do you ever get much into

(25:48):
like the functioning of the the the kind of like machine that
makes the movie? Have you ever like a dug into
that at all in your in your writing?
I do sometimes it depends on like the role.
I do like to look at diversity and like who's getting cast or

(26:10):
who's doing the casting or that kind of stuff.
That kind of tells you some stuff about the decisions that
were made. But I haven't dove super.
I mean, I'm, I don't know that Ientirely subscribe to the A tour

(26:32):
theory. Sure, yeah.
Because a film, yeah, I guess like Spielberg is the director,
he's bringing his vision, but like he's has multiple people,
like multiple people make a film.
It's not a one person job. So I do like to recognize that
other people are involved. Yes, but I don't often track

(26:57):
many people's careers unless I'mlike very interested in like in
that, like costume designers, I might track their careers or
like look it up or see like, oh,this, this looks familiar.
I think I've seen this before. And then I look things up but
haven't really tracked like entire cruise or yeah.

(27:19):
Or collaborators, long term collaborators with yeah, yeah.
And that's one thing that's cooldoing these series is you start
to like pick up on like patternsof like who he's working with
and like what sort of projects like he might bring on a certain
like crew member for a kind of there's like a pattern of this

(27:40):
type of movie he has like these people on and this these other.
Because Spiller, you know, he, he makes a variety of genres and
styles of movies. And so but yeah, he, he
definitely, it is a cool thing whether it's, you know, I think
Spielberg and another that I've done, Wes Anderson, they really

(28:03):
kind of have like a thread of collaborators through their
careers. And to me that's like a really
cool like community of artists, like kind of working long term
together is like a a cool idea to me.

(28:23):
So I just like really appreciatethat when you can kind of find
the people that like speak like you kind of develop a language
with them and you can kind of beon the same page artistically
and with my like without having to like go over every single

(28:44):
detail and kind of understand what each other would would do
and what each other would want. I just think that's a really
cool thing about film that that a lot of other art forms don't
not very many art film forms have to that degree of such a
large group of people coming together to like make some sort

(29:05):
of art. And one of the cool things I
think in the special features they mentioned at on like the
last day of shooting, they brought together all the women
to take a photo of all the womenon like in the cast and crew all
together. And, you know, they're taking

(29:27):
the picture. And then they were like, I guess
someone like, was like counting.And they realized, oh, there's
actually more women working on this movie than men.
So I think. That's.
That's a good sign. I get all kids still like
Spielberg directing when, you know, white guy directing.
There's, you know, John Williamsdoing the music, but you know,

(29:51):
you have a woman that wrote the the the screenplay that this is
built from and a crew. Apparently.
Full of women. So that's always like, I guess
reassuring at the least to to hear that you're getting at
least a lot of that perspective on a on a films kind of centered

(30:13):
around a woman. And so, yeah, I appreciated that
aspect. But yeah, let's let's talk a
little bit about the cast because this is it's a really
great cast, for one thing. I think, and I don't know how, I

(30:36):
don't know if many people would disagree with that, but it was
kind of Spielberg kind of like talks about it.
This doesn't happen really. I've never really heard a
director say this. But he was kind of like, yeah,
all of my first choices were just available.
And we, we just all came together and made it.

(30:56):
So that's like a really crazy thing with this movie that it
was, you know, it was kind of hehad finished filming Ready
Player 1. Ready Player 1 was in its long,
you know, CGI post production phase.
And he heard about this. He had kind of read the script

(31:17):
and I think in February of 2017 and was like, I want to make
this movie and put it out this year.
And so and so. Yeah.
And somehow, like the studio with Ready Player One just I
guess you can't really tell Spielberg what to do.

(31:38):
So they were like, yeah, I guessyou can do that while we're
doing the post for Ready Player 1.
And so during the time after filming Ready Player 1, he was
able to cast the movie, get all the pre production work done,
film it, edit it and release it all before Ready Player 1 was

(32:00):
like done and ready to release. And yeah, and one of the reasons
that we'll get into later is because of how he and many
others that were producing the movie felt that it was so
pertinent to the moment and wanted to get it out as soon as

(32:21):
they could. But yeah, that that that
probably this first part of the casting helped move it along.
When you just call people and they're like, yeah, I'll be
there. I mean, it helped, you know, as
you said, you can't really tell Steven Spielberg what to do.
And you call an actor and they're like, yeah, I'll work
with you. You know, they'll make

(32:41):
themselves available. Yeah.
And I think so, like, obviously we'll, we'll probably talk Meryl
Streep first. And I'm pretty sure I remember
her saying, yeah, I read the script in March and by May, we
were, we were filming. And so it's, yeah, it's fast,
very fast. But yeah.

(33:02):
Meryl Streep plays Katherine Graham.
She had, she had some chances towork with Spielberg before she
denied the role of Eineman in Minority Report.
It was a smaller role and she she didn't do that.
She was the voice of the Blue Fairy and AI.

(33:22):
So she had done some work with Spielberg, but just voice work.
So she was she I kind of talked about, you know, she was excited
to actually like do a actual work with Spielberg on this
movie. And she had actually been
interested in this script beforeSpielberg was involved.

(33:47):
It had kind of been, you know, it had been circling around
Hollywood, the script. And she had already read it, I
think at at some point and or had heard about it and was
interested in it. And yeah.
So I think another thing was that Meryl Streep, if you
remember back in 2017, the golden at the Golden Globes, she

(34:12):
had a very pointed speech that did not name the president of
the time. And maybe this time, too, by
name, but was definitely a pointed speech that may or may
not definitely did get a typicaltweet that was that said, quote,

(34:37):
Meryl Streep, one of the most overrated actresses in
Hollywood, UN quote, as if that has any weight to it, any loss
to anyone who knows anything But.
Yeah, she. So she she was excited to work
with Spielberg and then just excited about the projects kind

(34:58):
of and the, you know, the subject matter of it to working
on this. And yeah.
I mean, she got to work researching, reading K Graham's
autobiography, watching archive footage.
As actors, Do you know when you're playing a real person

(35:21):
And. Yeah.
How how did you feel about MerylStreep in this movie?
I I don't I may go without saying or asking, but but we do
have to talk about it. I mean, yes, I I hadn't seen the
film before and. OK.

(35:41):
I don't think I, I was super aware of this like historical
event, so I kind of went in. Pretty.
Blind or like new to the to the topic.
Yeah, yeah. So.
And I feel like I've seen Meryl Streep films before, but and

(36:07):
maybe this is just a testament to how good of an actress she is
that I am not like, Oh yeah, Meryl Streep, like all the, you
know, roles that she's been or the characters she's played.
But it really felt, I really felt the subtlety of her acting
in ways that at first made me very frustrated, of course.

(36:33):
Right, right. The with the power dynamics, the
gender power dynamics, and the yes, everything.
Else. But that same subtlety using
that she is able to capture not just what Catherine might have

(37:07):
felt in that time, but also whatwomen would have felt like at
that time. And the soft power that I think
the film kind of shows. Yeah.

(37:29):
The the narrative she often tends to play small and to quote
UN quote, save face for for the men in the film and maybe even
like whispers, you know, like a like very tentatively, she says
something like but or, you know,perhaps or something.

(37:54):
Like that and then like. Does a total switch on the power
dynamics or asserts her authority.
So it was, it was really interesting to see, especially
as the narrative itself made that that that switch.
But yeah, I, I really enjoyed, Ireally enjoyed her.

(38:14):
Yeah, yeah. One of the things that was
interesting to me was so in the special features, you know, her,
her kid, like her son and one ofher daughter's is in and and
they're kind of in interviews and her daughter was talking
about how and it's probably she probably talks about it in her

(38:38):
autobiography. I would imagine that she really
had a lot of self doubt and was just like to, I guess from her
daughter's perspective, a lot oftimes her like timidity and self
doubt was kind of like a centralpart of who's like how she saw
her mother or like I guess like her perspective on her seeing

(39:03):
her mother's doubt herself a lotand watching her.
And the other thing she said outof that was she had to work
really hard to build confidence.And so I was watching this after
the movie and just thinking backon how Streep kind of like
throughout the movie kind of does bit.

(39:25):
You can see this like subtle building of confidence kind of
behind this timid veneer that she of of self doubt and, you
know, submissiveness that she kind of wears that it kind of
like, and it starts like poppingout more and more, you know, as
you go through the film kind of up to that climactic event.

(39:49):
And I don't know, like one of the things that I that it kind
of made me like chuckle to myself is it ends with her like
the most assertive she's been the whole movie, you know, with
the the kind of. I guess like antagonist of sorts
character of and Arthur Parsons and kind of telling him how it's

(40:11):
going to be and giving her peaceand then she's kind of like,
well, I'm going to bed and she walks out.
But when I visually is now the power dynamic has like
completely flipped. She leaves the.
Room. And then the men are just left
like what baffled, kind of with nothing to say.

(40:36):
I think Fritz, the Tracy Letts character, kind of like
chuckles, but the rest of the men are just kind of like
baffled and don't don't know what to do.
And I just love like it's kind of like it's almost like
comical, that kind of power dynamic flip that happens in
that moment. But it, but it, it, it's not as

(40:58):
powerful without how Streep subtly and slowly builds to
that. And I guess it's in the script
too. Yeah.
And it's not a drastic change. It's very, yeah, ironic because
she does it in a very like, quote, UN quote feminine way.
She's like, OK. I'm going.
To bed now, you know, Yeah. And so it's something that like

(41:21):
a woman, and even they say it before, like the men's at a
dinner party, the men start talking about politics and the
women are like, OK, that's our cue to go.
And so she's like, OK, this is my cue.
Like I've made the decision. I'm going to bed.
I'm gonna go do women things andlike, go wash my face or
whatever kind of thing. But what I really liked about

(41:42):
that scene for me as I was watching, and this is more into
like acting and blocking. So I don't know if you want to
like wait for this or we can jump into it.
Yeah. So there is there's one
character of Fritz who? Is.
Like close advisor of hers. If you notice Fritz and K are

(42:05):
always like 2 shot like takes. They're they're two shots.
They're like on the same level or he sits down to be on the
same level with her or they're like standing up on the same
level with Bradley and with other men.
They either like walk in front of her, they block her out, they
enter out of the screen or they stand over her and she's like

(42:27):
sitting down. At the end of this scene she
leaves and she walks up the stairs to her bedroom and all
the men are left there looking up as she leaves the screen and
goes into her bed. So like at the end the the
physicality of the scenes changebecause now she's the one in

(42:47):
power and they are the ones thatare left looking up at her
instead of all the men throughout the whole film.
Well, not all of them. Except.
One or two looking down on her or like Bradley eventually being
on par with her whenever he realizes, oh, she's actually
like being a really brave personfor all these things that she's
doing because of his wife, right?

(43:09):
Right. Told him.
Right. So that was just like, as it
goes great, right. Really great.
Like blocking and acting and thethematic physical blocking for
me. Yeah, that was like, nice.
Yes. Cinematic, yeah, like visual

(43:29):
like. And when you were saying that, I
was remembering to the way the shot ends, the camera is above
them. It's like the camera is looking
down on all of them. And so that's just another like
visual aspect of now we're like looking down on all these these
men like the audience to throughthe lens of the camera.

(43:52):
And so, yeah, I mean, there's somany little visual cues there
that man, just Spielberg is really like when he's on, he
really is on and all of that like visual language.
And I think he is in this throughout this movie.

(44:13):
The other I guess the other likething that Meryl Streep
specifically brought to this role is out.
So. There this movie could very
easily like get over 4 of like Oscar quote UN quote moments,

(44:38):
and I loved that when it came tolike the big decision, you know,
are we going to publish or not? It like it's building up and
building up and like, and I think in a lesser director and
screenwriter and actresses hands, this would have been, you
know, the big Oscar moment whereshe gives the big confident

(45:00):
Oscari speech, you know, and shejust kind of like stammers
through like, yeah, let's but let's do it, Let's publish it.
And totally under plays like your expectations of how she's
going to be in that moment. And yeah, Meryl Streep just,
like, nails it. And it made me smile because,

(45:22):
yeah, she just, like, undercuts all of your expectations for
that moment. But it's like, so in character
and so perfect and still like it.
It's like that she's unsure, butshe's going to make a decision
and it's going to be her decision and not anybody else's.

(45:44):
And yeah, I just loved that moment, too, that I think Meryl
Streep nailed it on that. Yeah.
I mean, so the other big player in this is obviously Tom Hanks,
his fifth film working with Spielberg and his last one to
date. I don't know if they'll ever

(46:06):
work together again. Think I guess it's possible, but
yeah, Tom Hanks it this just kind of feels like par for the
course, I guess, for Tom Hanks. It's like a really kind of
perfect Tom Hanks role where he gets to like, say a lot of good
lines and kind of do some sort of like strange voice

(46:31):
intonation. Tom, I don't know why Tom Hanks
loves changing his voice so much, but he's like he's kind of
like a lock jawed in this movie.If you noticed that he's like
like through the whole movie, but I don't know.
It works. I don't know.

(46:52):
What did you think about Hanks in this one?
Yeah, I don't have a lot. I mean, yeah, he's just being
Tom Hanks. So maybe that's why he he
changes his accent because he's basically just being himself but
with a different accent. Yeah, he's like, I'll get bored
if I don't change my voice. Yeah.

(47:14):
I mean, he in one of my resources, it said that Tom
Hanks was, it used the term so relaxed that he invited the
whole cast of the editorial teamto his home the week before
shooting. And they kind of spent a few
days just, like, going over characters and stuff.

(47:35):
And so he's just like, yeah, y'all come over and we'll talk
about the characters. He's like on set and the special
features, like telling everyone about the different kinds of
typewriters because apparently he's a collector of typewriters
and is a nerd nerding out over typewriters on set.

(47:55):
Yeah, just being Tom Hanks. Yeah, he's good.
I and I think, I think what's especially good is that him and
Meryl Streep together, just theywork off of each other so well.
And that's, that's another thingthat stood out to me is in

(48:22):
Bridge of Spies, I remember Spielberg talking about when Tom
Hanks and Mark Rylance were on screen together.
He almost, he, he started realizing, oh, these two guys
are like playing off of each other So well, maybe I don't
need to do as much cross cuttingand over the shoulder shots for

(48:44):
the dialogue scenes. Maybe I just need to have them
both in frame. And so when I was watching this
and you right off the bat, MerylStreep walks in and sits down
with Tom Hanks at the breakfast table for their first, you know,
you're their first interaction that you see together.
And I think he starts and ends the scene with a couple of cross

(49:06):
cutting over the shoulder shots in the dialogue.
But the vast majority of that whole scene is just both of them
sitting in frame. And I just was I was thinking,
oh, I know exactly what he's doing.
He's letting just these two kindof top tier actors be on screen
at the same time and just letting them play off of each

(49:28):
other and no need for editing, no need for any of that.
I'm just going to put them both in frame and the master shot and
let the audience kind of have have fun watching this dynamic.
So I thought that was a a great choice and kind of showed how
well they worked together as actors.
I don't know if you noticed thatparticular thing or not, but I

(49:53):
did notice that. I also noticed that like
whenever he goes to her house the 1st.
Time. And he's trying to tell her to
talk to McNamara. Yeah.
I noticed. I think that's the first or
second time that I noticed in this film.

(50:14):
There's these weird three quarter over the shoulder
angles. They're not.
Quite over the shoulder. And they, it's like 3/4 of like
the person that's in this case, he's standing up.
Yeah. But now that you're saying like,
oh, like he trusts them both to carry the scene together without
having to cut back and forth, makes a lot more sense.

(50:37):
But to me, it was just like in that specific scene, you can
feel the tension because like, yes, he's a man trying to tell
this woman what to do, but also she's the boss, so.
He kind of. Like confronts her, but like 3/4
of the way he's not really looking at her.
He's kind of looking down. And then she gets up, looks at

(50:58):
him like brings the power dynamic of like, I'm the boss
here. And then she leaves the room
again. And she asked him, you know,
like, well, what about when you were in friends with Kennedy,
like. What about that?
You know, so yeah, it's the the dynamics between the two as it
changes, as it progresses, it's.Really.

(51:20):
Interesting and fun to see. Yeah, Yeah.
And I think where the editing comes into play is less like in
those dialogue scenes and more. And what about you and Kennedy?
And then like either the next shot or like within the like
after the next like little sequence, What do you see?

(51:41):
Well, you see Tom Hanks like picking up the picture of him
and his fan like wife in the Kennedys and contemplating what,
you know, you heard Kay point out to him.
And so that's that's like that'swhere the editing is doing its
work is in kind of connecting the progression of the
characters growth. And because you'll have the same

(52:02):
thing Bradley or like push her on something and then she's kind
of wrestling with that the next time you see her.
And so I think that's, you know.Part Part.
Due to the editing part, due to the way they structure the
screenplay, you know, they brought, they brought in Josh

(52:24):
Singer who wrote Spotlight to kind of help Liz Hannah kind of
build out that the kind of structure of that too, because
this is a 2 week span you're covering and like you, it's a
lot of just like conversations and people sitting in in rooms
and so not very interesting. Yeah.

(52:47):
So you really have to like how are we going to structure this
to like really move things forward and the story.
And I think that also was done in the editing a lot of the.
Action. Happens in like moving from one
place to another by either Gophers, messengers, or tracking

(53:08):
boxes of documents. Yes, yes.
Having the camera run down a hallway with the guy that's like
delivering the, you know, the new papers to what's the.
I can't remember the New York Times got Shaheen or something
like that. She she.
And yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.

(53:30):
All kinds of stuff like that. The cameras like doing all of
that because all the other timesyou just have people talking to
each other, right. You got to put some action in
there. Yeah.
Exactly. What?
Were there any other like actorsthat stood out other than like
the top 2 to you in this one? I don't think so.

(53:56):
I can't remember. I just remember.
I mean, this is 2017. It's not even that long ago.
But I'm right. I saw what was it, the guy that
plays Parsons I think I watched the Intern a while ago.

(54:21):
And he's one of. The main characters and then I
was like, there he is like a lotyounger, but I was like, it
wasn't even that long so. It was just like.
There's an actor that I've seen in something else and and it was
interesting, yeah. But yeah, Bradley Whitfield is,
is that actor? Yeah, Arthur Parsons.
He's like the kind of the antagonist ish kind of guy on

(54:45):
the board, I think. But yeah, yeah, he's like that
character is one of the is like an example of there's these
different people that we can't have all of these characters.
So let's kind of smash all of these real life people into a a
fictional character. So that and then he kind of

(55:06):
plays as like the foil, the the antagonist of sorts to to Streep
kind of throughout the movie to Kay, I guess actor I was and it
was it's the resident actually, not the intern, the internism
film. The the resident is a medical
drama. And actually it's McNamara, the
guy that plays McNamara. Bruce Greenwood.

(55:27):
Yeah, Bruce Greenwood. There's that guy.
Yeah, yeah. And he's he's good in this
movie. I almost wish the movie would
have leaned a little bit more into that dynamic of him and Kay
and like that struggle of like, can I still like love my friend
through this situation? This person that I've like built

(55:49):
a relationship with and like ourfamilies have been close.
Maybe that's like a little bit of a different movie than we
got, but but it would would havebeen interesting to see a bit
story, lean into that a little bit more, I guess.
And I also wonder if that was just more on her side than his

(56:11):
side. Oh, yeah.
She's like, hey, there is history here.
They were there when her husbanddied.
But I think he has seen them as newspaper owners from day one.
So. That's more strategic on his
side than like, hey, we're friends and we've known each
other for a really long time. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

(56:36):
And yeah, it's it would have been interesting.
Yeah. And I, I do think you're right.
Like it's more of Kay's wrestling than this guy is
probably. He's already made his decisions
and has his kind of, you can tell he's kind of set in his
opinions of what he did. So I.

(56:56):
Don't think he's going to be wrestling too much with that
relationship, but other cast members to to kind of touch on
Sarah Paulson solid background in TV.
She plays Tony Bradley, Ben Bradley's wife.
She actually had played the prosecutor on the inside look,

(57:19):
the people versus OJ Simpson in 2016 alongside Bruce Greenwood,
who appears in the film as well.But yeah, so there's a lot of
good as we go through the cast, a lot of like people with a
background in TV or a backgroundin theater that's are kind of

(57:40):
pulling from Bob Odenkirk. Who's?
Great. In this movie, he's kind of, I
guess, my third favorite actor in the movie playing Big Ben,
Bag, Ben, Bag Dickie, and he kind of had made a mate name for
himself playing Saul and Breaking Bad and Plemons worked
on that with him. There's a lot of like

(58:00):
interconnections with people in the cast, which is fun.
He also had a connection with David Cross.
They were like this comedy duo. There was a HBO show called Mr.
Show, and there was another sketch show they did called with
Bob and David. They were kind of like, they
talked about being nervous aboutSpielberg.
Like, what do you would think about hiring this comedy duo to

(58:23):
do this serious movie? But Spielberg didn't have any
idea about their connection whenhe cast them and didn't find out
till later, which was funny. And then you have Tracy Letts
playing Fritz Beebe. He's a theater actor.

(58:44):
Theater background obviously hasbeen in films, but this was
actually his first time starringalongside his wife, Carrie Coon,
who played one of the editorial team, Meg Greenfield, one of the
few women on editorial teams at the time, and felt kind of a
kindred spirit with K for that reason.

(59:04):
But yeah, they're they're both great in the movie, Bradley
Whitfield playing Arthur Parsons, who is, you know, as I
have said, as a fictional amalgamation of real people
Bruce bring Bruce Kingwood. We mentioned there's a few
people that have like been in Spielberg produce shows.

(59:24):
Green one was in the river. Matthew Reese, who plays Daniel
Ellsberg in the movie was in a Spielberg produced show called
the Americans and Reese even gotto like meet with Ellsberg
during preparation. He talked about how he was
asking Ellsberg how he felt. Was he scared?

(59:45):
And Ellsberg saying that he wasn't scared because he felt so
such a strong conviction about what he was doing, which I
thought was cool. Allison Brie pops up for a
couple of scenes as Lally Graham, the daughter of of
Katherine Graham. Yeah, she, she talked about
studying her interviews and doing.

(01:00:05):
She even did some vocal coachingso she could match Meryl Streep,
which is fun. David Cross, another editorial
team member in Howard Simons. He's really good in the movie.
Jesse Mueller plays Judith Martin, which is her This is her
first movie and she's great. She's one of the the reporters

(01:00:25):
that that comes in every once ina while.
Stark Sands playing Don Graham, he pops up a few times.
He even talked about he pulled, he researched and found some of
Graham's articles from 1971 and typed them out on set, which is
fun. We talked about Jesse mentioned
Jesse Plemons. He plays Rodger Clark and Zach

(01:00:46):
Woods plays Anthony essay the two kind of lawyer characters.
Michael Stulbar plays Abe Rosenthal, who's the The New
York Times, you know, owner, publisher.
And then I, I thought I would mention a couple other like
small players. Will Denton was Michael the

(01:01:08):
intern. I thought he did a good job, you
know, peeking over the shoulder of The New York Times guys in
the elevator and then. Of course.
Sasha. Sasha.
Spielberg makes an appearance asthe woman with the package,
which leads to a funny scene. I can.
Let's let's go into the production.
This was like I said, it was a very quick production.

(01:01:31):
They I think they were only filming for 44 days and then
which is his like most tight filming schedule since Dual
which was ATV made for TV movie.So he was on ATV schedule for
that. And so this is like his tightest

(01:01:51):
filming schedule since all the way back at the beginning of his
career with with Dual and so. Yeah.
This kind of, it kind of shows, I guess, like we really want to
make this movie and get it out there.
But yeah, I mean, they finished shooting this in July of 2017

(01:02:12):
and by the end of the year the movie was out.
So and and Spiller didn't even read the script until February.
And so, yeah, I guess that's like 9-10 months, I guess or so
from like start to start to finish, which is crazy.

(01:02:33):
A lot of it was indoors inside shots.
So I mean, yeah, it does. There's like only a couple if
not many outside. Yeah.
Studio areas. So yeah, a lot of the, so they
did like the Vietnam scene was in Purchase, which is like

(01:02:57):
there's the State University of New York at Purchase and there's
like a nearby like field that they used to stand in for
Vietnam near the. So that was 1 exterior and
there's not a lot for that was probably just like a couple of
days of shooting. And then other than that, the
only exteriors are like the outside of the Bradley house or

(01:03:22):
the outside of the Supreme Court, which those are just like
shooting a house in Brooklyn or the Supreme Court was Columbia
University. So yeah, those are really the
only exteriors and it's very, very little.

(01:03:43):
They did use these like abandoned floors of an AT&T
building that was being converted to something else for
that. That was in White Plains, NY.
They use that for like a lot of the interior offices.
So like the editorial offices, Kay's office, the DNC office

(01:04:04):
that we see at the end, the RandCorporation offices, all of that
stuff is in this like these abandoned floors that weren't
being used in this building. So it's always fun to like see,
hey, like, I don't know, I guessit would be interesting.

(01:04:24):
I've never been on the backside of that of like, who's making
the call? Like, hey, we see you're redoing
this building. Do you have any floors we can
use? Like, how does this conversation
start? I don't know.
Yeah, a few other like locations.

(01:04:45):
The exterior of the Bradley house was shot in Brooklyn and
then kind of all around their Steiner studios in Brooklyn was
the interiors of the Bradley andGraham homes.
Just down the street you have Woodside Press is a printing
company in Brooklyn. That's where they shot the, the
Leno type process of, of the, you know, the newspaper process

(01:05:11):
and that printing process that is.
And then the New York Post in Bronx is where they shot the
paper presses, where, you know, you have the papers flying
through and all that. So those are a few other notable
locations. Yeah.
Spielberg, you know, he had justgotten done with this
complicated special effects filmand Ready Player 1 and felt

(01:05:36):
really free and in his element on this set.
Tom Hanks talked about how he's such a good regulator of the
tempo of the scenes as they're shooting.
And, yeah, just does a great job.
Also just he's a great actress, director, very proficient, notes
only when necessary. And yeah, one fun, fun fact.

(01:06:01):
They got to celebrate Catherine Garam's 100th birthday, what
would have been her 100th birthday on set.
They had a cake. And Spielberg actually gave
everyone, gifted everyone a subscription to The Washington
Post. He he even included a note with
a quote from Kay that said to love what you do and feel that
it matters how? How could anything be more fun?

(01:06:24):
Which I thought was kind of a nice little tribute.
Yeah. A few like a few other
cinematography things just thinking about, you know, they
have one juxtaposition I thoughtwas funny was the handheld

(01:06:45):
camera when the Viet Cong attacks in the in the jungle,
the Vietnam. And then the other time the
handheld camera like kind of shows up is when they're like
digging through all the PentagonPapers and Ben Bradley's house
trying to do their research and you have this camera jostling
around it all. I thought that was a funny

(01:07:06):
juxtaposition of that camera useand you get some other fun stuff
like this quasi documentary style lenotype and printing
press stuff was was fun to see seeing Spielberg, you know,

(01:07:27):
figure out how do I make phone calls Interesting.
Oh, I'm going to, you know, haveBob Odenkirk's distorted face
reflected in the in the pay phone.
I'm going to multiply the numberof people on the the phone with
Kay Graham and be cutting back and forth between all of them.
I'm going to have like a Hitchcock dial in for murder

(01:07:49):
style camera circling around KayGraham while she's trying to
make her decision on the phone. A lot of stuff like that, you
know, Spielberg just injecting energy and just situations that
normally would not have that much energy.
And yeah, just in general, you know, with lots of time in The

(01:08:11):
Newsroom. Ganesh Kaminsky kind of talked
about how do I, this is a lot oflike bright top lit rooms.
How do I, how do I work with this?
And somehow he really like makesit look beautiful.
The street talked about how beautiful the movie is despite
how how often you're in like offices and dinner parties.

(01:08:33):
So I thought that was cool. The the look of this film is
really interesting. You know, it's a lot of of vote.
One of the things I thought was interesting and I'd.
Like to hear your your kind of view on is both Spielberg and
Janusz Kaminsky. The the cinematographer talked
about how they wanted to both like evoke the 1970s and in the

(01:08:59):
way they shot it and obviously like create sets that were made
to look like Washington DC in the 70s.
But at the same time, they even like specifically said this
movie felt so relevant to today that I didn't necessarily like
want to lighten it like I would normally like the period movie.

(01:09:24):
And so a lot of his lighting, hekind of tries to stick to more
modern how you wouldn't, you know, find a movie set today.
And so I don't know, I, I guess like I didn't really think about
that and watching the film, but in hindsight, it does feel like
even though it's set in the 70s,I guess it does have like some

(01:09:46):
sort of vibe of being very modern.
In a way I. Don't know, did you did you get
that vibe at all? Yes, but I also got a different
vibe and what I was impressed byit was so there seems to be a

(01:10:07):
change in lighting as the tension builds when we start
inside Shaws, and specifically Bradley's office is very
brightly lit. And.
Asks, you know, they get like the news breaks out and then
they get the papers. His office gets darker and
darker in other areas. And you know, we go, we go to

(01:10:33):
Kate's house and we are like in her office for a while.
Yeah, I and there's very warm tungsteny lighting.
But what I what I saw all right,what I started seeing was almost
this cheroscuro, which is like this Carvajo like lighting kind

(01:10:56):
of thing. These very dramatic.
Lighting. Situations.
And it kind of starts with when I can't remember the other Ben,
the other Ben goes to see Dan. Yeah, and the hotel?
And the hotel, yeah, everything is dark and you start getting

(01:11:18):
those half lit faces all the time, except for Kay.
Kay is always very brightly lit because she's like.
Yeah. And like naivete, it's like
everyone else. I was going to say it's very
like German Expressionist, like Night of the Hunter, Like what's

(01:11:39):
the, the movie I'm trying to think of the the like
quintessential German expressionist movie that I can't
think of the name of in this moment.
You know why my mind keeps goingto the cabinet of Doctor Kelly.
That's a great. That's what I was trying to
think of. Yeah.

(01:12:00):
The quintessential German Expressionist movie, using the
shadows on faces and stuff. It's like, yeah, I, I definitely
saw that. I mean yes, like German
expression is more harsh. Sure, yes.
One is soft but also you have like the the shadows and people
so and then you start getting the dramatic posters postures as

(01:12:25):
well. You.
Start getting the actors blocking in such a way that it's
like Carbaggio has like these groups of people, like, you
know, in the different layers and heights in a scene or in a
frame all kind of pointing in One Direction.
And then like one person being, you know, the center of the of

(01:12:47):
the frame or of the image and, and the lighting just being so
dramatic. And that for me, what's really
interesting to see it kind of peaked for me in that scene
where she like the last scene where she makes the ultimate
decision. She's even like the only one
dressed in Wyatt. There's all these other, there's
still these men like surroundingher, like hunching over her and

(01:13:10):
around her. And there's like very dramatic
postures and lighting and she's like the one that is holds the
gravitas of that scene and the lighting of that scene with like
her white dress, her like fully lit face and then stands up and
gives their back to them to makelike to to announce that she's

(01:13:33):
made a decision. But yeah, like that the lighting
for me. That's what I I I liked about.
Yeah, it. Got dramatic yeah.
And they even like when you weresaying that I was thinking about
when she does like over the phone make the decision to
publish and you kind of have that like descender rig camera

(01:13:55):
that's like spinning around her and it is this very like dark
kind of like dramatic. You have those like oranges and
shadows and yeah, that it it kind of helps build the tension
too, with the way it's kind of like lit and framed in those

(01:14:16):
ways. It it adds it adds just that
like extra umph of tension to moments where that, you know,
Spielberg is like when he's on his A game, he's like one of the
best, I think at building tension.
And I think this movie is like avery a very good example of that

(01:14:42):
because this movie shouldn't feel as like tense as it is.
But he like even like subtle things like at the beginning
when Ellsberg is like leaving with the documents that he's
stolen. And he pauses at the door for a
second and just that light, it'sonly like what, like 3 seconds,

(01:15:04):
3 to 5 seconds in reality, but it feels so long.
It's so tense. And then like the the kind of
pause before Kay filed, he makesher decision to publish.
There's this kind of like 10 andeven I think John Williams said
he had this like sustained note that he like sustained until she
finally spoke what her decision was.

(01:15:27):
So you have the score kind of playing into that too.
Yeah, all of that which the score was interesting for me
because it was very subtle. I did it.
I thought so too. The score and so much.
And I wonder if part of that decision is this is a film about

(01:15:48):
journalism, and journalism seeksto be as subjective as possible
without manipulating the audience.
And having so much more of a in your face kind of score would be
sure, like blatant manipulation.But also, like, you have Meryl
Strip and Tom Hanks. Yeah, Lane, you know, so you

(01:16:13):
don't. Really need.
A lot of. Yeah, A.
Lot of hand holds for the audience to like, know how to
feel or, or react. Yeah.
And I think too, there's a lot of there's a surprising amount
of like sound design in this movie.
Like you wouldn't think in a movie about journalism, but it
being set in the 70s, you know, when you're in The Newsroom,

(01:16:35):
there's constant noise happening.
And so like, if you were to havelike a score trying to compete
with the sound of 100 typewriters typing, you know, it
would really be it would probably be too like cacophonous
and distracting. And so they probably like we're
thinking about that, that that sound element to how are we

(01:16:58):
going to like marry the sound with the score so that they're
not like competing with each other because really like the
score only comes in big. And those like dramatic moments
that are like quiet. Like the other moment I can
think of is like at the very endwhen she's like announcing the
Supreme Court decision and theirfavor and the score kind of

(01:17:21):
swells in with this like victorious sounding like kind of
John Williams classic kind of sounding score.
But that's like a quieter moment.
It's not like there's not a lot going on.
There this movie, The score for this movie, first of all, this

(01:17:41):
is the 44th year of Spielberg and John Williams working
together. So that's pretty awesome.
But yeah, Spielberg was in a hurry to get John Williams and
edit. They they went through the
editing process of this movie, Iguess, pretty quick.
And yeah, they were John Williams was able to deliver the
score three weeks after shooting.

(01:18:03):
So really fast turnover. They're getting that recorded.
It was the first time that Spielberg didn't actually get to
hear John Williams do his, like,piano demos of themes before
scoring the scoring sessions. But yeah, not a lot to talk
about with the scores. Not terribly memorable.

(01:18:26):
It has its moments that it kind of comes in.
But yeah, as far as like production design, you have Rick
Carter, of course. He he talked about being draft
age in the late 60s and was a very remembers this era.
Well, you know, they're trying to recreate the 1971 DC and one

(01:18:48):
of the things I thought was coolis they didn't really focus on
monuments, getting monuments in the movie.
So, you know, just see you're inDC, but like getting that
brutalist kind of architecture. That that is.
You know, part of DC's architecture and cityscape.
And so that I thought worked well.

(01:19:10):
The design of the bullpen, as they might call it, which is
like The Newsroom floor was justgreat.
Carter, you know, Rick Carter makes this from scratch.
Really doesn't inject much Colt color going off of the memory of
people that worked there at the time.
And yeah, just strings and all these old typewriters that of

(01:19:31):
course Hanks was nerd out over. Used photos of Ben Bradley's
office to recreate it. And even Spilberg even talked
about like a friend of his that had worked there at the time
visited the set and was tearing up.
Just it felt like so real, you know, which I thought was cool.

(01:19:54):
Some props they, they did, they were able to like look at the
Pentagon Papers at the National Archives to recreate those.
They borrowed A photocopier fromI think from a museum or
something like that, but they weren't allowed to plug it in.
So this period photocopier and so that I think it was a Xerox,

(01:20:15):
but they had to like rig it with.
These lights and rig it so that the paper would come out to
recreate the photocopying sequence at the beginning.
They even like created 30 different newspapers based on
papers of the time. They were able to get some old
actual newspapers from the time to have around tons of

(01:20:37):
magazines, period magazines laying around.
Yeah. And the other cool thing about
the design, you know, like Carrie Kuhn was just talking
about Anne Roth as a costume designer.
One of the things that she lovedwas that when you go in to,
like, get measured and work on your costume with Anne, she

(01:20:59):
like, teaches you things about the character that you haven't
considered yet as an actor. Even just with her research on
how to costume this character, Ithought that was a really cool
thing that you don't really think about a whole lot.
Yeah. This movie was released in
December, 22, December 22nd, 2017.

(01:21:20):
That was a limited release. It really got its wide release
January 12th, 2018. That's kind of when everyone
would have been able to go see it.
And yeah, it's, it's interesting, you know, this
movie made 184, a 180 million point, $180.4 million worldwide

(01:21:44):
box office domestic was 81,000,000.
And it opened #2 at the box office, I believe, number one
was the Welcome to the Jungle. Oh, my gosh, Jumanji, Welcome to

(01:22:08):
the Jungle Movie. But yeah, I mean, this was a $50
million movie, opens at 19,000,000, gets to 180 million.
So I would say that's a pretty successful Spielberg movie
overall. Not the most, but it did its
job. And you know, as far as the

(01:22:31):
reception to the movie goes, it's it was generally like
really well received. The conversation called it quote
a love letter to the press and the journalistic profession.
UN quote Variety revealed not revealed reveled in a vision of.
The hectic. Journalism without computers and

(01:22:51):
smartphones, which is a fun aspect of the movie for sure.
The French publication Liberation loved the lenotype
and Rotary presses and early morning truck deliveries of
papers. The New York Times, you know,
despite their pre production problems, welcome to the lively

(01:23:12):
pace and energy They called the they said it was due to the
quote, virtuosic veteran crew, UN quote.
So there you go. And and then some too.
Like noted that Spielberg has this instinct to avoid like the
gravity of the subject and and not like, as I'll probably talk

(01:23:35):
about later, not like lean out of the weight of it all, but
like not make it not weigh you down with it.
Along those lines, the Guardian said, quote, it's chaotic.
The chaotic, absurd moment UN quote when Kay hauntingly
approves the publication is the kind of example they give.
It did suffer a little bit from comparison to something like All

(01:23:57):
the President's Men, which many would say is the superior movie.
Some questioned if the topical relevance was enough to justify
the film being made. I think now with hindsight, we
can say absolutely it was. It had some factual criticism,
you know, it was approached for poorly narrating the Pentagon

(01:24:17):
paper scoop, paying too little attention to Ellsberg, a former
New York Times VP. James Goodell, who was a legal
Rep for the before the Supreme Court in 71, had talked about
how the lawyer never mentioned the 1st Amendment before the
Supreme Court. And the Post initial offering

(01:24:38):
was primarily to pay property taxes for shareholders,
including Kay, not to hire journalists, as stated in the
film. So, you know, some people took
issue with some facts. It's one of those things.
It was nominated for two Oscars.It did not get any wins, but it
was nominated for best picture and lead actress for Meryl

(01:24:59):
Streep has Katherine Graham. Yeah, good stuff.
Hello again, do you know how youcan really support the show for
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That's right, just leave a rating and review on Spotify and
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(01:25:20):
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OK, I trust that you when left that rating in review.

(01:25:40):
Now back to the show. Yeah, I know I don't have you
for too much longer. So I just wanted to get maybe
your your perspective on some ofthe themes real quick that like,
so we can we can either talk about kind of the we've talked a

(01:26:04):
decent amount about Katherine Graham and like, but we can talk
more about that, or we can talk about the pertinence of the
freedom of the press and speaking truth to power.
What do you feel? What do you feel like you is
speaking to you most in this moment?
Yeah, I think the freedom of thepress is quite pertinent at the

(01:26:28):
moment. We have to have the same
precedent as we did when this film was made.
And, and just thinking about what is happening, like even
today, like this week, yeah, there is a representative being
held in the Texas House of Representatives because she

(01:26:53):
won't sign a permission slip to be followed around, you know,
and, and not a lot of news outlets are covering that.
Yeah. And so I think like for me, this
made me think of of a couple of things, like, yes, we need
freedom of the press. It made me question how free our

(01:27:14):
press is at the moment. Yeah.
And it made me think about the democratization of news and who
tells the news, who gets to say tell the news.
Made me think about media literature and it made me think
about how dangerous it can be tobe a journalist in some places.

(01:27:37):
Being a journalist is one of themost dangerous jobs that people
can have. Yeah.
Absolutely. It made me think of the
journalists that have been killed in by Israel in Gaza,
which Brown universities put outa study showing that more
journalists have been killed in Gaza than have been killed in

(01:28:01):
like several world wars and other wars.
And so it's a dangerous thing tospeak truth to power.
We. We know that and we see that,
and yet many more of us need to not just speak truth to power in

(01:28:22):
the sense of like having an institution behind you and and
doing that in a formal way, but even just being a witness of
what is happening is becoming dangerous nowadays.
Yeah. And we need to like guess.
Of course, not everyone can justrecord things, sure, because of

(01:28:47):
different the ways that people are being racially profiled.
But whoever can should be have the courage.
Like hated. To.
Do something. And sometimes the courage it
takes is to take out your phone and record something that's

(01:29:09):
happening that shouldn't be happening.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it's, it's interesting like,you know, this was the the 70s
and really like, you know, the newspapers were, were it, you
know, that was that was where you got your news.
I mean, there's, there's TV newsback then too.

(01:29:32):
But like the real journalism, I think was still seem to be like
in the, the big papers, like thetimes and that sort of thing.
People like knew who those journalists were, like they knew
their names back then, I think. And I don't know, there's,
there's also like it, it made mewhile you were talking, it made

(01:29:56):
me kind of think about how there's an there's a certain
sense to which like we have suchan inundation of recordings that
it's almost like hard to dig through the noise of it all and
find the truth. And I think that's one reason

(01:30:20):
why, like journalism is so important because that's what a
good journalist does is they. Yeah, you might have like all
these recordings of this situation that happened from all
these different vantage points and hearing different people say
different things. But like it's, it's easy to like

(01:30:41):
read what you want into all of that noise.
And what a good journalist I think does is they take all of
that noise. They kind of like push out the
stuff that's just like, I guess like actually just noise and dig
down to what's actually happening and what is like the

(01:31:01):
crux of the matter. And I don't know, I think I
think one of the reasons like our our media news is so like
wild and, and just like divided is because is a little bit
because of that, because everything is so noisy, it's

(01:31:22):
harder to like find people that are like really trying to do
some like, like some audio engineering on, on what we're
hearing in the world. You know, it's tough.
It's just tough. It's just tough for like the

(01:31:43):
average everyday person. Like who do I trust?
Like who can I even listen to? That's not like beholden to this
politician or that part, you know, this political party or,
you know, or that's not, I don'tknow, you know what I mean?
It's it's it's tough. Yeah.

(01:32:06):
And I think that's why I think of media literacy is so
important for everyone. Yeah.
Because if you start following someone on social media, let's
say for example, or even a newspaper who is a reputable
source, and you start seeing thekind of headlines or the kind of

(01:32:29):
messages that they start puttingout.
After a while, you get a sense for what this, how this person
thinks, the biases that they hold.
Because nobody, no newspaper is actually objective and no person
is objective. We cannot.
Be. We come with our own social
location and context, and that'show we interpret what we

(01:32:50):
experienced. Agreed.
So I think for me, what a good journalist does is be aware of
their own social location and their own conscious and
unconscious bias. And they are good synthesizers.
They get all the information. They're truth.

(01:33:13):
Seekers, they seek a lot of stuff.
They seek everything. They get a bunch of information
and then they corroborate between each of those things,
right? They're like, this person says
this, this other person says this.
Oh, there's this camera angle orthere's this other things.
They put the picture together and then they synthesize what
actually happened for everyone else to clearly understand what

(01:33:35):
is that happened, right? And that's where people can have
a, they can become informed and make more informed decisions
about whatever the issue may be.But if we are not literate, and
if we are not taught to be literate, then we can't

(01:33:58):
recognize the patterns of someone saying opinions instead
of facts or we. Can't.
Recognize when someone is biasedand they don't name it.
Or. When we are in an echo chamber
and we're like, well, these are the news.

(01:34:19):
Like this is what I think. So this should be.
Right. Yeah.
Or when channels aren't actuallynews, but actually entertainment
and news is. Just in.
Their name, right? Yeah.
And I think another big thing onthat is like the the distinction
between information and truth. A lot of people, it's easy to

(01:34:44):
get a bunch of information, but like, like you said, like
synthesizing that information orlike distilling it down to like,
what is the truth found in all of this information is different
than just like throwing around information that like backs up
what you may already believe or,or that sort of thing.

(01:35:07):
And so, you know, living in the information age doesn't actually
mean that we're we have more like truth just because we have
more information at our hands. Yeah, I yeah, I love that.
I was going to ask one more thing along all of these lines

(01:35:31):
and related to the film. It really takes, obviously, it's
kind of like this teamwork that like grows and builds between
Kay and Ben over the course of the movie.
And Ben obviously has like his strong opinion on what needs to
be done. But at the end of the day, it's

(01:35:54):
it's Kay's call. It's her decision to make.
And my question for you, and I think you're like a perfect
person to like answer this question is does and I kind of
know the answers not going to bethe answers going to be like

(01:36:16):
yes. And like it doesn't have to be.
But does it take someone who, who does, who has experienced
the some sort of what's the, what's the way to put it?
Like Kay has experienced in her lifetime just being stepped down

(01:36:36):
and looked, stepped on, looked down on kind of in always except
for explicitly, except maybe sometimes explicitly being told
that like her opinion doesn't matter.
Does it take kind of someone whois coming is able to like rise

(01:36:57):
out of that kind of like oppression, to speak the truth
to power, to be able to like make those hard decisions?
Have you ever like, have you noticed that there's more people
that have come out of like some sort of whether it be like
gender dynamics or racial dynamics and is able to speak

(01:37:21):
truth to power because of what they've experienced?
Do you find that that's something that happens often?
Well, I think in case case, she also had power.
Yeah, she had. She had a lot of privilege and
power that she grew up, that shegrew up with.

(01:37:43):
She was the owner of the newspaper.
So that's. Power, right?
So I think in a sense she recognized her power, which is a
bit different than someone who would be like more
disenfranchised, like a person who is also a woman, you know?

(01:38:07):
Absolutely. So I think in that sense, like
it takes everyone to speak truthto power.
It takes people that have influence and privilege to
listen to people that don't haveprivilege and influence.
And it takes the people that have been marginalized and
oppressed to also speak up. And The thing is that many times

(01:38:33):
the people that are oppressed dospeak up.
Right. But their people don't hear
them, right? And it's not that we need people
to say, like, I'm gonna speak for the people that don't have a
voice. People have voices.
We just need to platform their voices.
Yes. Yeah.
The people that have the privilege to do so.

(01:38:54):
So it takes everyone to speak truth to power, but I think
mostly it takes people that havesome power to listen to those
that don't have it. That's a great point to help
others, to help move things forward.
Yeah, no, that's a great point. And I think that's like that
distills down where something that I was like trying to put

(01:39:17):
words to but like wasn't quite getting there.
I think you just helped me kind of finally find what I was
trying to to think through. Yeah.
And I think this movie is so like, pertinent, so important.
It's, you know, I was listening to some podcast reviews of like

(01:39:41):
back in 2017 when the post came out and you know, people are
talking about this, you know, this has a shot at a Best
Picture nomination and all this.But one particular podcast, I
remember, I don't remember whichone it was, but they were
talking about how is this movie going to play in 10 years or 20

(01:40:03):
years? Is it?
Is it so like caught up in our 2017 moment that it might?
It might like lose that at like there's aspects of it that are
like kind of always like inspirational and relevant, but
like that kind of like politicalmoment aspect of it.
Will that kind of just be lost? And I kind of like wrote down in

(01:40:26):
my notes like, little did they know 9-9 years later, here we
are even worse than then, you know?
So yeah, it's still relevant, unfortunately.
And yeah, I think I wrote down. Let's see if I can find it.

(01:40:53):
There's this. I, I will end with, I'm going to
read this quote from David Ehrlich and Indy Wire.
Who's I? I really enjoy his.
I don't know if you've ever readhis film criticism, David
Ehrlich, but he's one of those guys that like has strong

(01:41:14):
opinions and sometimes like I disagree with him greatly and
sometimes like we're in line, but like you don't when we
disagree. I always love his hat, like how
he thinks through it and like writes about it.
So, but this is a it's, it's a little long quote, but it's I
think it's a good way to like end our conversation and get
your thoughts. He said quote.

(01:41:35):
Once Upon a time, a movie about the Pentagon Papers could have
been framed as a cautionary tale.
But now it only makes sense as an unabashed crowd pleaser.
And that context. Spielberg is naturally the right
director for the job, a master chef preparing an entire feast
inside a pressure cooker. Spielberg shoots the Post like
every shot was delivered to the studio on a deadline, and the

(01:41:58):
result is a film that combines the Spartan clarity of hard
journalism with the wrong suspense of an Indiana Jones
adventure. His film simmers with liberal
indignation only boiling over atthe very end, and the days
leading up to Graham's decision are chaos told with clockwork
precision. And I think, well, I think I

(01:42:23):
love about like that quote to meis like he's he's like he's
pointing out the fact that this movie could have easily been and
in any other point in time, a, you know, a cautionary tale sort
of film. But with Spielberg directing in

(01:42:44):
this particular political moment, it's almost like a joy,
like a joyful cinematic, like response in a way.
Because the movie is fun. It's funny, it's fun, it moves
and it's in All in all of that, It's like saying something.

(01:43:05):
It's almost like it's this kind of persuasive, like fun movie in
this particular moment that yeah, it's it's like it's very
Indiana Jones adventure at timeswith the camera moving around

(01:43:26):
Ben Bradley's house with like a handheld camera as they're like
researching Pentagon Papers and making that fun somehow, but
still like it. It took like in that moment
that's so dark, it's like it's almost more important for this

(01:43:48):
movie to be a little bit of lessof a dark movie in a dark moment
and more of like a lighter moviethat still takes the subject
very seriously and and speaks persuasively against what's
happening in the moment. But does it like and kind of the
opposite way with lightness and fun and and the gravity of it

(01:44:11):
all, but doesn't weigh you down,if that makes sense.
Like you don't like, I guess like another movie of very
similar content, like the journalism and revealing some
spotlight. It kind of leaves you way down
with the weight of of it all. And this movie, you feel more

(01:44:32):
like uplifted at the end. And I think that's that was
important for that moment. And I think it is for this
moment too. There is still kind of a hope
that you see in this movie and Idon't know, I just wanted to
before you go get your your takeon on all of that.

(01:44:55):
Yeah, I think that's definitely true.
And that's what movies are made for.
Yeah. So I don't see what's wrong with
that. It's made.
For the audience to enjoy and itcan end up being a historical
film in which majority of the people will know part of this

(01:45:18):
history or at least the ending. And because it ends very tongue
in cheek, it ends with it's. A prequel.
Yeah, it's a prequel to what we all know.
Watergate. And with Nixon state like
trying, you know, on this phone call to get make sure that
nothing else like this happens and then like right away it's

(01:45:41):
already happening. Yeah.
It does give hope. It gives hope and it's it gives
the audience a like, oh, but we know better that, that, you
know, in the end, the truth prevails.
Yeah. And, and I think in moments like
that, there's nothing wrong with, with that kind of goal,

(01:46:05):
even Yeah, in telling a story and, and being able to tell the
story for a moment in the way that this was told, because
films don't always get to do that.
They might be. Inspired by a moment and like
they don't get out to the publicuntil like 2 years later.
One or two. Years later.
And and this one was able to meet its moment when it was

(01:46:30):
needed and would still be relevant.
So I think that's. That's a good.
Yeah, and it, you know, it just makes me respect Spielberg a
little bit more because he's as an example of like using your
power to get cuz the normal everyday like director, you
know, isn't going to get this movie and be able to say we're

(01:46:51):
putting this movie out this year.
It's I really like only guys like Spielberg can can do that
in a studio be like, yes, Sir, you know.
And so you know, it just I guessit kind of like raises the
respect level of him who like isalways like, if not always

(01:47:12):
hitting the mark with trying to like speak into situations.
I think he's had his misses withthat, but he's always sincerely
trying even in his misses. And I think this was a hit.
I think he like nailed the moment and and used his his kind

(01:47:35):
of mogul Hollywood power to to make it happen.
So got to respect the the man, old Stevie.
So, yeah. Any final thoughts before I let
you go, Ransom? Yeah, this was really fun.
I really enjoyed watching a filmand like I did back in my school

(01:48:01):
days and like, pausing and beinglike, wait, what did they say?
Or like, wait, am I saying this correctly?
Like, yes, it was fun too. Yeah, it's more critical.
I mean, it kind of just happens in my brain.
Like once you're you're, you learn to watch films in a
certain way, you can't undo it. Like we see camera angles, like
we see, you know, all those things, the lighting and all.

(01:48:23):
Of them, yeah. But it was it was nice to do it
in a more intentional way this time.
Yeah. Well, I had fun.
I think you brought some great insight that I really appreciate
to the conversation. And yeah, maybe we'll, we'll be
able to bring you back on sometime in the future.
We'll see. I, I don't know what's in the

(01:48:45):
future of the podcast, but you never know.
But thanks, Raslyn for coming on.
It's been, it's been really fun.Thank you for having me.
Hello there listener. Don't you ever want more for
your life? Don't you ever dream of
surpassing the status of just podcast listener?

(01:49:07):
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featured on the establishing shot.
Back to the show I'll. Follow point out some Spielberg

(01:49:48):
distinctives, as we like to do for one.
Just fun shots in general. The opening of the box of
documents and seeing everyone like peering in.
Fun shot like that local place. close-ups, of course, so many
reflections. Probably leaning into the idea
of like reflecting of the same problems of the world now of

(01:50:12):
back then. That sort of thing.
Building tension, efficient character building you like, for
instance, you know everything you need to know about Kay and
Ben's relationship from their first meeting together.
Great stuff there. The the kind of injecting energy

(01:50:32):
with the camera that Spielberg does.
Lots of scenes that would be boring without it and then like
comedic interjections to some examples I wrote down.
Bin bag Dicky and dropping the coins at the pay phone.
The guy who gets the the first package of the Pentagon Papers
from Sasha Spielberg and he's trying to like describe who it

(01:50:55):
was as Ben's like Ben Bradley's like totally ignoring him and
trying to move the, you know, get the papers something
published been constantly crashing Kay's parties is funny.
There's a lot of like good comedic moments in this movie.
And then the last like big Spielberg thing is just the
framing. So many examples of how

(01:51:17):
Spielberg is just excellent and filling out a frame and blocking
the shot just right. So good.
I did want to point out like a few things that, you know, were
just interesting shots or sequences.
You have, first of all, Nixon stuff.

(01:51:41):
It was a great choice to just not show Nixon close up, use the
like far away shots of his back and use the real recordings.
I thought that was a great decision the the other.
I think the only other big thingwas just like this.
The scenes throughout of emphasizing the importance of

(01:52:03):
Kay as a woman in a man's world.You got like the tracking shot
following her in the boardroom into the boardroom, past all the
women who are outside the closeddoors, going in through the
closed doors into a sea of men for the boardroom meeting and
having to hold her on. And that then you have the, you

(01:52:27):
know, her walking down the Supreme Court steps at the end
through a crowd of women watching her, which, by the way,
was not in the script. I was like a Spielberg in the
moment idea her, you know, goingto bed and leaving a room full
of baffled men behind. As we've talked about.
Those are some other, like, interesting scenes that I

(01:52:49):
thought were worth bringing up just as we're closing.
I thought I would do just kind of a final thought with about,
you know, going further into speaking truth to power.
I have some more David Ehrlich quotes because I really liked
some of how he wrote about this movie.
One of them he said quote. The post offers profound

(01:53:12):
testament to the idea that America only works when all
people are granted the voice they deserve.
It only works when everyone is held accountable.
And everyone can only be a held accountable when the press is
free to pursue the truth. In a movie that contains at
least two of the best scenes that Spielberg has ever shot,
watching Streep stumble across that truth makes for one of

(01:53:33):
them. UN quote.
I thought I was really good. And then, yeah.
We. Have to continue to speak truth
to power just in closing, we can't give our rights over to a
political party, to an institution.
We can't give up our right to question authority.
We we can't give up our right tothink critically about the

(01:53:57):
decisions of our politicians just because we hate the other
side. We should not give up.
That critical thinking and you know, I talked about how at the
time critics were wondering if this would still be relevant in
10 years, 20 years. And it even more so is.

(01:54:20):
And along those lines, I have one more David Ehrlich quote.
He this is another long 1. He said, quote.
If we're lucky, the film will feel like a relic in 10 years.
If we're not, it might be relevant again in 20.
Today, when it matters most, Thepost is essential because it
stares down cynicism with a smile, because it enshrines the
fact that governments only see journalists as a threat when

(01:54:42):
they have something to hide. And of course, because it
separates the value of journalists from the horrors
they uncover, allowing us an unalloyed appreciation for their
work can change the world. It's all there in the film's
other all time Spielberg moment,as Bagdicchian sits down at his
typewriter, right as the printing press groans to life in

(01:55:04):
the basement and the whole building starts to heave, he can
feel the earth moving under his feet.
And so can we. UN quote.
I just feel like we need to learn from history and speak
truth to power, use, use whatever influence and power we
have to give voices to people who don't.

(01:55:26):
And yeah, I we cannot let our political persuasions blind us
and allow ourselves to be put inecho chambers.
We have to listen to each other.We have to hear these stories.
We have to learn how, as Roslyn was saying, to be media literate

(01:55:49):
and dig through all the crap to find, you know, the truth.
It's it's becoming ever more important in a world of
information that, you know, is twisted and turned and, you
know, played with. And we have to, we have to still

(01:56:11):
pursue truth in the midst of that all.
And to pursue. Justice as well.
And so that's kind of my final thought.
That's what this movie had me thinking about.
And yeah, I, I personally have this movie as like a mid tier,
mid tier Spielberg. I have it like 4 *8 out of 10.

(01:56:32):
I think it's really great. I actually bumped this up.
I noticed I had a 3 1/2 star rating on it from back in 2018.
I guess when I saw the movie in theaters.
And yeah, I'm like, I was looking at that.
I was like no this. Is A8. 8 out of 10 movie.
This is a great movie. I have it right up there with,

(01:56:53):
you know, Bridge of Spies and Lincoln and West Side Story.
I think that kind of like trio of Lincoln, Bridge of Spies and
the post is like great little trio of like Spielberg showing
you, you know, great people making card choices and doing
the right thing. And yeah, those, those make for

(01:57:15):
a really a really great, like itwould be a good interesting
marathon to, to throw those, those 3 movies on back-to-back.
But yeah, great movie. And yeah, I really had fun.
I'm glad Roslyn was able to joinme.
And you know, her popping in andout on this podcast has been

(01:57:39):
yeah, she had some great insights.
So I and I will put like more, I'll put her like website and
social media stuff on the episode description.
So you can just go click that and follow her there.
But yeah, next week we have kindof a throwback movie draft.

(01:57:59):
A while back we did a riders andmovies draft.
I thought that would be a good one to pair with this because I
didn't have a new one. And so, yeah, that'll be fun to
for that the writers and movies draft to have its own episode
now. And it was a fun one.
So look forward to that. And then, yeah, we'll pick back
up with Ready Player 1 the next week.

(01:58:21):
And it's going to be fun. I already recorded that
conversation and it's going to be a good one.
So looking forward to that. But until then, I've been Eli
Price and you've been listening to the establishing shot.
We will see you next time. We were happy here for a little
while.

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