May 8, 2024 • 30 mins
Ever felt like you're navigating a spiritual maze with no guide in sight? That's the quandary facing many when church leaders seem distant and questions about faith go unanswered. Join me, Jonathan Rich, as we tackle the sensitive issue of approachability in church leadership. We'll contemplate why some pastors become unintentional gatekeepers to spiritual growth, especially for youth, and how creating a welcoming environment for queries can ignite a deeper faith journey. Our conversation extends an open hand to leaders and congregants alike, underscoring the profound impact of open dialogue in our spiritual communities.
It takes courage to admit our flaws, and even more to lead by example. This episode peels back the curtain on the authenticity that pastors must embrace to cultivate trust and genuine connections within their flock. We'll discuss the consequences of projecting an image of infallibility and the transformative power of humility and receptiveness to feedback. As your host, I'll share the conviction that leadership and vulnerability walk hand in hand, with the hopes of inspiring both clergy and members to foster relationships grounded in transparency and inclusivity.
Navigating life's complexities can often leave us seeking counsel, yet unsound advice can do more harm than good. Our discussion turns to the delicate balance between spiritual wisdom and practical guidance, addressing the needs of those grappling with real-world challenges like mental health and past traumas. You're also invited to our upcoming virtual class, a space where young believers can safely explore their faith-based questions. This episode is an invitation to church leaders to lower the barriers and to congregants to find the support they need – together, we can build a church that's not just a building, but a sanctuary for all.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody and welcome to the Everyday
Christian Podcast, where weapply scriptural principles to
everyday Christian lives.
I'm your host, jonathan Rich.
My co-host, sean, is onvacation this week right now, so
he's not with me tonight.
If, for some reason, you can'thear the audio, let me know in
the chat and I will try to fixthat.
Of course, this is only likethe third time we've went live,
(00:22):
so obviously there's some kinksand things that we're trying to
work out.
It seems like every time we doa live there's something that
goes wrong, so please bear withus and we're going to try to
push through it here tonight.
I wanted to tell you before weget started.
I wanted to tell you aboutthese awesome tumblers.
You probably can't see themvery well in the light.
I'll try to hold it up to thecamera there.
(00:43):
The Everyday Christian PodcastTumblrs.
We are selling these for only$25, shipping included.
It has our cool logo on it.
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Please check out our Facebookif you want to see more.
They're $25 at shippingincluded.
The proceeds obviously go tosupport our show and if you
(01:11):
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youtube, tiktok I don't carewhere you send it to us.
The Everyday Christians atgmailcom is our website, if
you'd like to order those.
I want to also make anannouncement about our upcoming
virtual youth class.
It is free to join and it willbe starting in the next few
weeks.
So if you're a youth member orsomeone between the ages of 15
and 35, I kind of pushed it alittle bit Usually they say
(01:32):
about 13 to 30, but we're goingto go with 15 to 35.
And if you have questions aboutGod or the Bible or just
personal questions that you'restruggling to find answers for,
please, you know I'll let youknow.
This class is for you.
Please join that class.
The slot for joining us isquickly closing.
We have had several sign up andthere are several more who are
(01:54):
wanting to join.
So if you have questions likehow does God or what does God
feel about tattoos and piercings, or how or why do I need to
speak in tongues, or how do Iconnect closer to God, or any
questions in general about theBible, again about any personal
things, please let us know bymessaging us or clicking the
link that I'm going to providein the comment below after this
(02:16):
episode closes, and this takesme right into the episode and
directly correlates to the classthat we just discussed.
The title of this episodetonight is Unapproachable
Pastors Unapproachable Pastors.
My wife and I were leaving themissions conference in London,
(02:39):
kentucky Really loved thatconference, enjoyed being a part
of that, and we were driving onour way home.
It's about a 12 to 13 hour trip.
If you have kids it's a lotlonger.
We typically end up splittingthe day or splitting the time
and driving halfway, staying ina hotel and then driving the
rest of the way.
But my wife and I were sittingin the car and we were
(02:59):
discussing different pastors anddifferent questions that people
had for pastors.
And something that was sort ofdiscouraging is we talked about
how a lot of leaders pastors,preachers, evangelists,
missionaries are just notapproachable.
They're just not people thatseem welcoming.
(03:23):
Now a lot of them are.
I just want to let you knowthere are a lot of pastors and a
lot of preachers that arewelcoming and are loving and are
caring.
So don't get me wrong when Isay that, but a lot of times
several of them are not, and Iknow over the last few months
there's been several talks,messages, teachings and blogs
(03:45):
that have discussed members,especially youth members, who
have been searching for answersto some of the deepest questions
of the Bible, even searchingfor answers that I feel like
aren't very deep questions, butthey just don't know how to
search, research and find theanswer to those people, and
youth ministers have beenlooking for answers to their
(04:08):
questions about man-madetraditions or out-of-context
doctrines.
Though several of them just getby with a feeling or an emotion
and just continue in this walk,many of them eventually begin
to apply logic and reasoning towhat they are doing, how they
are living, why they are notdoing certain things, and they
begin to question everything allat once.
At least that's what happenedto me, at least that's what I
(04:31):
went through.
Let me start this podcast bysaying this there is nothing
wrong with asking questions, andif you attend a church where
questions are prohibited or shutdown when they're asked
respectfully, then you aren't apart of a church you are part of
, or the makings of, a cult.
I'm going to repeat thatthere's nothing wrong with
(04:55):
asking questions If you have aquestion about the Bible, if you
have a question you're unsureabout, there is nothing wrong
with that.
But if you attend a churchwhere questions are prohibited,
shut down when they're askedrespectfully, then you aren't a
part of a church you are part of, or a part of the makings of, a
cult.
I say respectfully becausethere is a correct way to ask
(05:18):
questions and there is anincorrect way.
An example would be asking yourpastor a question out of the
public earshot.
That is correct.
Asking everyone else and theirmother about what the pastor
said is not.
There is nothing wrong withasking questions respectfully.
Several of you have pastors whoare approachable, who can be
(05:39):
asked anything, and you shouldthank God for that.
That is the mark of a trueleader.
I'm thankful to say I feel thatmy pastor is someone I can talk
to about anything.
I have leaders in my life thatI feel I can share anything with
and praise God for that.
But several of you have pastorswho are unapproachable, who you
still have the heart andcourage to question, but it
(06:00):
doesn't get anywhere.
That is the mark of a personwith a title and nothing more.
Then there are some of you whohave pastors who are
unapproachable but you don'thave the heart or courage to
approach them for variousreasons, one being that it
wouldn't matter anyway.
There was a foolish statementshared a few months back from a
(06:22):
preacher.
I'm not going to namepreachers' names, I don't care,
and I'm sort of paraphrasingthis anyway, but he basically
said this the gist of histhought was people are claiming
to have questions and that weturn them away, but no one has
ever asked me anything.
That was the statement that hemade and I want to tell you, if
(06:46):
you're the preacher that said it, if you're someone who has said
something like it, I want totell you this that's not because
they don't have questions,that's because you're
unapproachable.
I know your pride hurt a littlebit just now.
I know you think you're thecat's meow.
I know that you aren't used toreceiving correction or that you
aren't used to someone tellingyou that you need correction,
(07:07):
but the reality is that thereare people leaving our churches,
leaving your denominations,leaving your fellowships,
because every time they have aquestion about something
significant, you play it offlike it isn't a big deal or you
give off an attitude that isrepelling.
Before you say that I don'tunderstand what I'm talking
about because I'm not a pastor,I just want to share with you.
(07:31):
I've been under several pastors.
I have assistant pastored.
I have pastored.
I am currently a youth pastor,so I do have an idea of what I'm
talking about.
Of course I don't knoweverything.
If you joined here and thinkthat I think I know everything,
I'm just going to.
Of course I don't knoweverything.
If you joined here and thinkthat I think I know everything,
I'm just going to shut you down.
Right now I don't knoweverything, but here are a few
(07:52):
of the top reasons why you arenot approachable as a pastor.
Number one it's because youmake yourself unavailable.
You make yourself unavailable.
You fill your schedule withdifferent things and put no
(08:12):
effort to listen or talk to yourpeople.
You schedule camp meetings,revivals, conferences, sunday
dinners, church cleanups, churchoutings, but you don't set time
aside for your people churchoutings, but you don't set time
aside for your people.
You don't schedule sit-downs orhave lunch with or even have
unscheduled events or time withyour congregants.
I understand if you have athousand people on your
(08:33):
congregation, but I have afeeling that most of you who are
listening to me probably haveanywhere between 50 and 300.
I understand some of you haveseveral people, but even letting
your people know that you havea cell phone and can be reached
and being consistent with that,as much as more than what most
people do.
Being available to your peopleis one of the most important
(08:55):
things that you can do.
It's even more important thanhaving a hundred revivals a year
in hopes that God will get ahold of them and change their
way of thinking.
Being available to your peoplewho have questions, who have
concerns, who need answers, isone of the most important things
that you can do.
It's even more important thanhaving a hundred revivals in a
(09:19):
year in hopes that God will geta hold of them and change their
way of thinking.
In hopes that God will get ahold of them and change their
way of thinking, you need tomake yourself available to
counsel people.
You need to make yourselfavailable to help your sheep who
are struggling.
You need to have an open doorpolicy that starts from the
(09:41):
deacon all the way down to thefirst time church member.
You need to be available inorder to be approachable.
The second reason why you areunapproachable is because of the
way that people perceive you.
It's because of the way thatpeople perceive you or the way
(10:04):
that your congregation portraysyou.
It's because of the way thatpeople perceive you, or the way
that your congregation portraysyou.
You are looked up to by many ofthem subconsciously, as some
sort of God.
Some of that is their fault,but most of that, or rather some
of that, is your fault.
If you have given the appearancethat you can do no wrong or
that you have never sinned inyour life since you were saved,
then you have given thatperception to people.
(10:27):
If you have preached messagesto your congregation that have
been tailored to fit thisnarrative that you are a
hardcore, sin-free, guilt-free,turn or burn.
The devil is a liar preacherthen you have given this
perception to people.
You have given people theperception that God is on the
throne, jesus is at the righthand of him and that you are on
(10:49):
the left hand of him.
You have given your church theperception that everything on
the platform is nothing short ofperfection.
And if you even want to grace astep closer to the platform,
you better at least look thepart.
Your pride does not allow youto be imperfect.
I want to tell you somethingunapproachable, pastor.
(11:11):
It's good that people know thatyou struggle.
It's good that people know thatyou have shortcomings.
It's good that people know thatyou are an open book.
Some of you say you're an openbook, but when push comes to
shove, when things begin tohappen, you hush, hush and cover
things up.
(11:31):
It's good that people know thatyou are not God, that you are
not Jesus and that you are notperfect as a pastor.
It's good for you to let peopleknow that you are not always
right.
You need to hear that.
I remember to repeat a lot ofstuff here tonight.
It's good for you to let peopleknow that you are not always
(11:53):
right, that sometimes you arewrong, that sometimes you have
made wrong decisions.
It's good for you to let yourcongregation know that you have
faced temptations and sometimesdid not come through victorious.
Let me get on this for a moment.
It's good for you to beconsistent everywhere that you
go.
It's not good for you to act acertain way in church, act a
(12:17):
different way in public and acta different way at home.
The disingenuous pastor ishurting people who want to know
more about Jesus, god and theBible, and that is how you have
portrayed yourself.
Just be real with people.
Just be real with people.
You think that people want toconverse and confide in pastors
(12:37):
who act like they are spotless.
Well, god is looking for achurch without spot or wrinkle.
Yes, but that's what Jesus did,not that.
What you can do or did, youmust learn to be a servant.
I was listening to a podcastepisode the other day with Dave
Ramsey and he mentioned a trueleader is not one that pushes,
(12:57):
but one that pulls.
It's not one that demands, butit's one that serves.
Cult leaders are narcissisticand make everything about
themselves Humble.
Leaders are servant and dotheir best to help those they
are serving.
(13:19):
You're unapproachable because ofthe way people portray you and
perceive you, and a lot of thatis because of you.
Number three, the reason whyyou are unapproachable is
because you are not coachable.
Because you are not coachable,it's your way or the highway.
(13:41):
You're the pastor of the church.
What you say goes.
If anyone comes against it,then they are sent from the
devil.
Stop it.
If anyone comes against it,they're sent from the devil.
Really, stop thinking that youhave all the answers.
Stop thinking that you havearrived.
Stop thinking that your titlesomehow gives you magical powers
(14:05):
that makes you reach theunattainable, or reach what
Jesus reached.
Your title may be an ego boost,but there are lives at stake.
There are people who areleaving God, let alone the
church because you have not onlymade yourself unattainable, you
have made Jesus appear to beunattainable as well.
(14:26):
Learn to ask for help.
Learn humility.
Don't avoid constructivecriticism.
Welcome it.
Don't take advice from someoneyou don't like and just toss it
to the side.
Have an ear open for everyone.
Sometimes they're right.
I've had people tell me stuffthat I did not like and I mulled
(14:49):
over it and I complained overit and it hurt me and then two
days later I realized they'reright and the only reason I
didn't listen to them is becauseI don't like them.
Admit when you are wrong.
I can't do that.
I'm a pastor and people look upto me to always be right.
(15:10):
No, they don't.
They look up to you to alwaysbe accountable, and humbly
accountable.
One of the coaching methods thatwe have at my current job is
listening.
Don't just listen to respond orlisten to hear yourself talk,
but listen to understand.
Listen to the reason behind thequestion, listen to the reason
(15:31):
why they are asking.
Don't just listen to a reason.
Don't just listen to a questionand think up in your head
reasons why they're asking it.
And think up in your head.
Well, I know why they'rewondering whether or not they
can wear shorts.
It's because they want to beimmodest.
Well, I know why they'rewondering whether or not they
(15:53):
can have tattoos and piercingsit's because they want to be
full of the devil and do thingsthat are wrong.
Listened to understand.
When was the last time you justlistened to someone?
When was the last time youheard what they had to say or
(16:17):
wanted to learn something?
Many pastors, evangelists,missionaries, ministers and
teachers all have the ability tospeak, but not many of them
have the ability or desire theability to listen.
Be coachable.
You are not always right.
You're not always right.
(16:38):
Sometimes you're wrong.
So you're not approachablebecause you aren't coachable.
Fourthly, you're notapproachable because you aren't
coachable.
Fourthly, you're notapproachable.
This is going to hurt you, butyou're not approachable because
(16:59):
not everyone is a part of yourclique.
You're not approachable becausenot everyone is a part of your
clique.
I understand having a board.
I understand having anassociate pastor.
I understand having a songleader.
I understand having a youthleader.
I get that there are people youcannot allow in the place of
leadership.
But how are you with your othercongregants?
Do you have and play favorites?
Do you have family members thatyou tend to more?
(17:21):
Not talking about your son,your wife or your daughter, not
talking about your husband, nottalking about people that live
in your home.
I'm talking about distantrelatives.
I'm talking about people thatyou've maybe known for a while.
Do they get special treatmentbecause of that?
Do you go out to eat with thosepeople all the time?
Do you spend social time withthem all the time?
(17:42):
Do you sit at Sunday churchdinners with them all the time?
Do you only ask them to sing aspecial or preach?
Do you only call or text themand tell them you are praying
for them?
I'll tell you why thereshouldn't be favorites, because
that person that isn't on thatfavorite list is usually the one
that you lack trust in.
It didn't start with lackingtrust, but it ended up that way.
(18:05):
It's usually the one that youtalk bad and gossip about.
I know you're a preacher,you're a pastor.
You don't talk bad and gossipabout anybody.
I also know that that's nottrue.
It's usually the one who isyour favorite that can convince
you to dislike the one who isn'tyour favorite.
(18:26):
I'm going to move on from there.
There is no room for cliques inchurch.
Yes, jesus had disciples whowere closer to him, who he was
training to do a work for him,but he was also surrounded by
others who wanted to learn fromhim as well, and he also rebuked
his disciples at times who werejudgmental of others.
(18:47):
I have seen church memberswhich, by the way, is a way to
show others that he wasn't apart of a clique I've seen
church members who weren't apart of anything in the church
outside of attending becausethey did not want to put in
effort to try and join yourclique.
(19:07):
I have seen church members whoeventually left because they
didn't feel good enough to beincluded.
I've seen church members giveup trying to connect to their
pastor because their pastor hasa type and they don't fit that
mold.
Get rid of cliques, get rid ofclicks.
(19:29):
Give all of your people theunderstanding that you are
pastor of all of them, each ofthem, even the ones you don't
really like, even the ones thathurt you, even the ones that
fail you.
You know, a lot of times we getrid, give up, let go of people,
(19:50):
hurt people, talk bad aboutpeople because they also have
not arrived.
They've also made mistakes.
They've also failed you Guesswhat?
You're still the pastor ofthose people as well.
So you make yourselfunapproachable because not
everyone is a part of yourclique Number five.
(20:12):
You make yourselfunapproachable because of how
you mishandled a situation prioror previously.
You have had people seek counselfrom you or seek advice for
questions that they weregrappling and, instead of
offering empathy andunderstanding, you offer
judgment, rigid doctrine ordismissiveness.
(20:34):
Maybe you have had people seekcounsel from you and, instead of
admitting you didn't know howto handle it or admitting that
you needed time to think it over, you offered a genetic or
cliched response or an answer.
Perhaps, instead of keeping theconversation or question
confidential, you told othersabout it and breached that trust
.
Instead of being a beacon ofhope for people, instead of
(20:58):
trying to find the correct andbiblical answer or answers, you
cut people off, told everyone ofwhat was said or gave an answer
based off your own feelings ona matter.
You want to know why peoplewon't approach you anymore.
It's because you keepmishandling them when they
approach you in the first place.
It's because you keep givingthem what you feel is the right
(21:22):
answer instead of what is theright answer according to the
Bible.
Perhaps you gave an answer tosomeone who trusted in you, but
they later found out that youeither didn't know the answer
and made it up, or you didn'tgenuinely seek the answer and
help them find it.
Maybe you mishandled how youdealt with a situation with one
(21:44):
congregant and that caused theother congregant to lose faith
in you as well one congregantand that caused the other
congregant to lose faith in youas well.
Pastors, teachers, preachers,leaders you make yourself
unapproachable because of howyou mishandle someone who
approached you before and thensix and finally, this one's
(22:04):
probably not going to go over sowell, but most of this podcast
probably won't anyway.
But the sixth reason why you'renot approachable is because
your conversations are centeredaround spiritual things but
never practical things.
Because your conversations arecentered around spiritual things
(22:24):
but never practical things.
Now you're really going to fallout with me, but hear me out.
People are looking for practicaladvice.
People seek knowledge more thanthey seek God, because they
have no knowledge of how to seekGod.
I'm going to repeat that Peopleseek knowledge more than they
(22:47):
seek God because they have noknowledge of how to seek God.
They were never taught, theywere never showed those things.
They were never shown how topray.
They were never shown how to behospitable.
They were never shown how towork outside of the church and
(23:08):
behave outside of the church.
You were sitting at the pewtalking with others around you
and you only talk about who gotsaved, who ran the aisle, what
chapter of the Bible you read,what sermon you preached, what
happened when you prayed.
You're eating lunch with someof them or working at the church
and talk about things that Goddid in the past or how many
people were saved in thisservice here and there, here and
(23:30):
there.
All of those things, by the way, are great things, but what
about practical speech?
What about practical lessons?
Teens are struggling withdepression.
Why not talk about thatsometime?
You're scared.
Young adults are struggling toknow where to go and what to do.
Why not talk about that?
(23:51):
Why not talk about how to findthe will of God?
People are wondering how theycan handle someone who has
wronged them.
Why not talk about that?
Why not bring that into it?
Kids are struggling withanxiety.
Kids are struggling with drugabuse.
Kids Youth pastor here,remember, hello, youth pastor.
(24:13):
Young people are strugglingwith alcohol and drug addiction
and all that you want to talkabout is how Susie Q got saved
15 years ago and is somehowmiraculously still in your
church, say, 15 years ago, andit's somehow miraculously still
(24:33):
in your church.
People are wondering how theycan mishandle someone who has
wronged them.
Why not talk about that?
Get into the spiritual bubblewhere everything is great,
spiritual things are happeningall around us, when, in reality,
for some people, things are notgreat, things are terrible,
they are struggling, they arehurting and all you care about
is a lesson you taught in Sundayschool Be practical, be open,
(24:56):
Be willing to help those who arehurting, be willing to talk
about things that no one evertalks about.
We did an episode last year.
It's our number one listen toepisode.
If you're listening, you'relive here.
Go check out that episode.
You can find us on Buzzsproutor any podcast platform of your
choice.
But our number one episode thatwe have ever done on this show
(25:20):
is titled Childhood Sexual Abuseand we talked about different
ways to help overcome that orwhat you can turn to.
But the surprising thing aboutit is that we had several church
members and pastors and leaderstry to stray us away from
talking about those things, eventhough it was something that
(25:43):
needed to be talked about.
I want to tell you something Ifyou take this approach of being
open with your congregation.
Of letting them know that youare not Jesus Christ.
Of letting them know thatyou're available.
Of letting them know that youcan be coached, that you can be
wrong, that you can learn things.
Of letting them know that wearen't in a clique or a part of
(26:06):
a clique.
Of letting them know thatyou're sorry for how you
mishandled a situation prior.
You start talking about thosethings.
You start addressing issuesthat people don't address or
that pastors don't address.
I guarantee you you're going tohave others that are against
you.
You're going to havecongregants that leave you.
(26:27):
You're going to have friendsthat you thought were going to
be on your side, no matter whatbackstab you and talk about you,
but guess what?
You're going to help a lot morepeople than those that are
leaving you.
Be open to address situationsyou never thought you'd have to
(26:48):
address.
Just because you never thoughtthat you would see a day where
kids, teens and adults arestruggling like they are.
Does not give you any excuse toturn a blind eye and pretend
like there's nothing that can bedone short of prayer.
God gave us science.
God gave us logic.
God gave us the ability tolearn and teach new things.
(27:11):
God gave us the ability to gothrough things that are taboo in
church, that we can helpsomeone else who is facing those
things.
You're listening to this episodeand you feel like I've hit some
of the points that you've dealtwith, or hit some of the points
that you've dealt with, or hitsome of the points that you have
portrayed.
(27:32):
You haven't been the mostapproachable pastor.
Guess what?
Perfect time to change rightnow, perfect time to put your
money where your mouth is.
You say I want to see churchgrowth Great, be approachable.
Many, many, many churches whoare growing right now, who have
(27:53):
congregants that are gettinghelped and blessed and touched
by God, are there because thereare pastors and people in
leadership who are not perfect,who never claim to be perfect,
who don't portray perfection,who are humble and not prideful.
The unapproachable pastor.
(28:16):
The unapproachable pastor.
I have so many more I could goover.
I could probably write a bookabout it.
I want to thank you all forlistening.
Thank you all who have attended, joined in Again.
Go message us if you want apodcast.
Let me just turn that the rightway.
The Everyday Christian Podcastis up $25.
That includes shipping.
If you are wanting to listen toour podcast.
(28:36):
You can find us by searchingthe Everyday Christian Podcast,
that's the Every and DayChristian Podcast, or separate
the Everyday Christian Podcaston the platform of your choice.
There it is.
I spelled that and typed itjust now as we were doing this
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Or you can find us on Facebook.
You can find us on TikTok, youcan find us on Instagram.
(28:58):
You can find us on just aboutany platform you want.
We're on Twitch, we're onYouTube, we're on Facebook by
searching at podcast the numberfor him at podcast the number
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I at podcast the number for himat podcast the number for him.
I want to thank you all forjoining us.
I pray that something alonghere helped, something along
here challenged you.
If you have a question aboutany of this, please message us,
please leave us a comment,please share this.
(29:19):
And again, if you want to be apart of the virtual class, we
are about to start that up herein the next few weeks.
It's starting to really makesome traction.
A lot of people are joining.
We have limited availabilitythere.
So if you want to join thatclass, please message us and let
us know.
And, like I said, you'relistening to the Everyday
Christian Podcast.
We apply scriptural principlesto everyday Christian lives.
(29:41):
Thank you and God bless.
Thank you.
Hey everybody and welcome to the Everyday
Christian Podcast, where weapply scriptural principles to
everyday Christian lives.
I'm your host, jonathan Rich.
My co-host, sean, is onvacation this week right now, so
he's not with me tonight.
If, for some reason, you can'thear the audio, let me know in
the chat and I will try to fixthat.
Of course, this is only likethe third time we've went live,
(00:22):
so obviously there's some kinksand things that we're trying to
work out.
It seems like every time we doa live there's something that
goes wrong, so please bear withus and we're going to try to
push through it here tonight.
I wanted to tell you before weget started.
I wanted to tell you aboutthese awesome tumblers.
You probably can't see themvery well in the light.
I'll try to hold it up to thecamera there.
(00:43):
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The proceeds obviously go tosupport our show and if you
(01:11):
would like to purchase one, sendus a message on Facebook,
youtube, tiktok I don't carewhere you send it to us.
The Everyday Christians atgmailcom is our website, if
you'd like to order those.
I want to also make anannouncement about our upcoming
virtual youth class.
It is free to join and it willbe starting in the next few
weeks.
So if you're a youth member orsomeone between the ages of 15
and 35, I kind of pushed it alittle bit Usually they say
(01:32):
about 13 to 30, but we're goingto go with 15 to 35.
And if you have questions aboutGod or the Bible or just
personal questions that you'restruggling to find answers for,
please, you know I'll let youknow.
This class is for you.
Please join that class.
The slot for joining us isquickly closing.
We have had several sign up andthere are several more who are
(01:54):
wanting to join.
So if you have questions likehow does God or what does God
feel about tattoos and piercings, or how or why do I need to
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questions in general about theBible, again about any personal
things, please let us know bymessaging us or clicking the
link that I'm going to providein the comment below after this
(02:16):
episode closes, and this takesme right into the episode and
directly correlates to the classthat we just discussed.
The title of this episodetonight is Unapproachable
Pastors Unapproachable Pastors.
My wife and I were leaving themissions conference in London,
(02:39):
kentucky Really loved thatconference, enjoyed being a part
of that, and we were driving onour way home.
It's about a 12 to 13 hour trip.
If you have kids it's a lotlonger.
We typically end up splittingthe day or splitting the time
and driving halfway, staying ina hotel and then driving the
rest of the way.
But my wife and I were sittingin the car and we were
(02:59):
discussing different pastors anddifferent questions that people
had for pastors.
And something that was sort ofdiscouraging is we talked about
how a lot of leaders pastors,preachers, evangelists,
missionaries are just notapproachable.
They're just not people thatseem welcoming.
(03:23):
Now a lot of them are.
I just want to let you knowthere are a lot of pastors and a
lot of preachers that arewelcoming and are loving and are
caring.
So don't get me wrong when Isay that, but a lot of times
several of them are not, and Iknow over the last few months
there's been several talks,messages, teachings and blogs
(03:45):
that have discussed members,especially youth members, who
have been searching for answersto some of the deepest questions
of the Bible, even searchingfor answers that I feel like
aren't very deep questions, butthey just don't know how to
search, research and find theanswer to those people, and
youth ministers have beenlooking for answers to their
(04:08):
questions about man-madetraditions or out-of-context
doctrines.
Though several of them just getby with a feeling or an emotion
and just continue in this walk,many of them eventually begin
to apply logic and reasoning towhat they are doing, how they
are living, why they are notdoing certain things, and they
begin to question everything allat once.
At least that's what happenedto me, at least that's what I
(04:31):
went through.
Let me start this podcast bysaying this there is nothing
wrong with asking questions, andif you attend a church where
questions are prohibited or shutdown when they're asked
respectfully, then you aren't apart of a church you are part of
, or the makings of, a cult.
I'm going to repeat thatthere's nothing wrong with
(04:55):
asking questions If you have aquestion about the Bible, if you
have a question you're unsureabout, there is nothing wrong
with that.
But if you attend a churchwhere questions are prohibited,
shut down when they're askedrespectfully, then you aren't a
part of a church you are part of, or a part of the makings of, a
cult.
I say respectfully becausethere is a correct way to ask
(05:18):
questions and there is anincorrect way.
An example would be asking yourpastor a question out of the
public earshot.
That is correct.
Asking everyone else and theirmother about what the pastor
said is not.
There is nothing wrong withasking questions respectfully.
Several of you have pastors whoare approachable, who can be
(05:39):
asked anything, and you shouldthank God for that.
That is the mark of a trueleader.
I'm thankful to say I feel thatmy pastor is someone I can talk
to about anything.
I have leaders in my life thatI feel I can share anything with
and praise God for that.
But several of you have pastorswho are unapproachable, who you
still have the heart andcourage to question, but it
(06:00):
doesn't get anywhere.
That is the mark of a personwith a title and nothing more.
Then there are some of you whohave pastors who are
unapproachable but you don'thave the heart or courage to
approach them for variousreasons, one being that it
wouldn't matter anyway.
There was a foolish statementshared a few months back from a
(06:22):
preacher.
I'm not going to namepreachers' names, I don't care,
and I'm sort of paraphrasingthis anyway, but he basically
said this the gist of histhought was people are claiming
to have questions and that weturn them away, but no one has
ever asked me anything.
That was the statement that hemade and I want to tell you, if
(06:46):
you're the preacher that said it, if you're someone who has said
something like it, I want totell you this that's not because
they don't have questions,that's because you're
unapproachable.
I know your pride hurt a littlebit just now.
I know you think you're thecat's meow.
I know that you aren't used toreceiving correction or that you
aren't used to someone tellingyou that you need correction,
(07:07):
but the reality is that thereare people leaving our churches,
leaving your denominations,leaving your fellowships,
because every time they have aquestion about something
significant, you play it offlike it isn't a big deal or you
give off an attitude that isrepelling.
Before you say that I don'tunderstand what I'm talking
about because I'm not a pastor,I just want to share with you.
(07:31):
I've been under several pastors.
I have assistant pastored.
I have pastored.
I am currently a youth pastor,so I do have an idea of what I'm
talking about.
Of course I don't knoweverything.
If you joined here and thinkthat I think I know everything,
I'm just going to.
Of course I don't knoweverything.
If you joined here and thinkthat I think I know everything,
I'm just going to shut you down.
Right now I don't knoweverything, but here are a few
(07:52):
of the top reasons why you arenot approachable as a pastor.
Number one it's because youmake yourself unavailable.
You make yourself unavailable.
You fill your schedule withdifferent things and put no
(08:12):
effort to listen or talk to yourpeople.
You schedule camp meetings,revivals, conferences, sunday
dinners, church cleanups, churchoutings, but you don't set time
aside for your people churchoutings, but you don't set time
aside for your people.
You don't schedule sit-downs orhave lunch with or even have
unscheduled events or time withyour congregants.
I understand if you have athousand people on your
(08:33):
congregation, but I have afeeling that most of you who are
listening to me probably haveanywhere between 50 and 300.
I understand some of you haveseveral people, but even letting
your people know that you havea cell phone and can be reached
and being consistent with that,as much as more than what most
people do.
Being available to your peopleis one of the most important
(08:55):
things that you can do.
It's even more important thanhaving a hundred revivals a year
in hopes that God will get ahold of them and change their
way of thinking.
Being available to your peoplewho have questions, who have
concerns, who need answers, isone of the most important things
that you can do.
It's even more important thanhaving a hundred revivals in a
(09:19):
year in hopes that God will geta hold of them and change their
way of thinking.
In hopes that God will get ahold of them and change their
way of thinking, you need tomake yourself available to
counsel people.
You need to make yourselfavailable to help your sheep who
are struggling.
You need to have an open doorpolicy that starts from the
(09:41):
deacon all the way down to thefirst time church member.
You need to be available inorder to be approachable.
The second reason why you areunapproachable is because of the
way that people perceive you.
It's because of the way thatpeople perceive you or the way
(10:04):
that your congregation portraysyou.
It's because of the way thatpeople perceive you, or the way
that your congregation portraysyou.
You are looked up to by many ofthem subconsciously, as some
sort of God.
Some of that is their fault,but most of that, or rather some
of that, is your fault.
If you have given the appearancethat you can do no wrong or
that you have never sinned inyour life since you were saved,
then you have given thatperception to people.
(10:27):
If you have preached messagesto your congregation that have
been tailored to fit thisnarrative that you are a
hardcore, sin-free, guilt-free,turn or burn.
The devil is a liar preacherthen you have given this
perception to people.
You have given people theperception that God is on the
throne, jesus is at the righthand of him and that you are on
(10:49):
the left hand of him.
You have given your church theperception that everything on
the platform is nothing short ofperfection.
And if you even want to grace astep closer to the platform,
you better at least look thepart.
Your pride does not allow youto be imperfect.
I want to tell you somethingunapproachable, pastor.
(11:11):
It's good that people know thatyou struggle.
It's good that people know thatyou have shortcomings.
It's good that people know thatyou are an open book.
Some of you say you're an openbook, but when push comes to
shove, when things begin tohappen, you hush, hush and cover
things up.
(11:31):
It's good that people know thatyou are not God, that you are
not Jesus and that you are notperfect as a pastor.
It's good for you to let peopleknow that you are not always
right.
You need to hear that.
I remember to repeat a lot ofstuff here tonight.
It's good for you to let peopleknow that you are not always
(11:53):
right, that sometimes you arewrong, that sometimes you have
made wrong decisions.
It's good for you to let yourcongregation know that you have
faced temptations and sometimesdid not come through victorious.
Let me get on this for a moment.
It's good for you to beconsistent everywhere that you
go.
It's not good for you to act acertain way in church, act a
(12:17):
different way in public and acta different way at home.
The disingenuous pastor ishurting people who want to know
more about Jesus, god and theBible, and that is how you have
portrayed yourself.
Just be real with people.
Just be real with people.
You think that people want toconverse and confide in pastors
(12:37):
who act like they are spotless.
Well, god is looking for achurch without spot or wrinkle.
Yes, but that's what Jesus did,not that.
What you can do or did, youmust learn to be a servant.
I was listening to a podcastepisode the other day with Dave
Ramsey and he mentioned a trueleader is not one that pushes,
(12:57):
but one that pulls.
It's not one that demands, butit's one that serves.
Cult leaders are narcissisticand make everything about
themselves Humble.
Leaders are servant and dotheir best to help those they
are serving.
(13:19):
You're unapproachable because ofthe way people portray you and
perceive you, and a lot of thatis because of you.
Number three, the reason whyyou are unapproachable is
because you are not coachable.
Because you are not coachable,it's your way or the highway.
(13:41):
You're the pastor of the church.
What you say goes.
If anyone comes against it,then they are sent from the
devil.
Stop it.
If anyone comes against it,they're sent from the devil.
Really, stop thinking that youhave all the answers.
Stop thinking that you havearrived.
Stop thinking that your titlesomehow gives you magical powers
(14:05):
that makes you reach theunattainable, or reach what
Jesus reached.
Your title may be an ego boost,but there are lives at stake.
There are people who areleaving God, let alone the
church because you have not onlymade yourself unattainable, you
have made Jesus appear to beunattainable as well.
(14:26):
Learn to ask for help.
Learn humility.
Don't avoid constructivecriticism.
Welcome it.
Don't take advice from someoneyou don't like and just toss it
to the side.
Have an ear open for everyone.
Sometimes they're right.
I've had people tell me stuffthat I did not like and I mulled
(14:49):
over it and I complained overit and it hurt me and then two
days later I realized they'reright and the only reason I
didn't listen to them is becauseI don't like them.
Admit when you are wrong.
I can't do that.
I'm a pastor and people look upto me to always be right.
(15:10):
No, they don't.
They look up to you to alwaysbe accountable, and humbly
accountable.
One of the coaching methods thatwe have at my current job is
listening.
Don't just listen to respond orlisten to hear yourself talk,
but listen to understand.
Listen to the reason behind thequestion, listen to the reason
(15:31):
why they are asking.
Don't just listen to a reason.
Don't just listen to a questionand think up in your head
reasons why they're asking it.
And think up in your head.
Well, I know why they'rewondering whether or not they
can wear shorts.
It's because they want to beimmodest.
Well, I know why they'rewondering whether or not they
(15:53):
can have tattoos and piercingsit's because they want to be
full of the devil and do thingsthat are wrong.
Listened to understand.
When was the last time you justlistened to someone?
When was the last time youheard what they had to say or
(16:17):
wanted to learn something?
Many pastors, evangelists,missionaries, ministers and
teachers all have the ability tospeak, but not many of them
have the ability or desire theability to listen.
Be coachable.
You are not always right.
You're not always right.
(16:38):
Sometimes you're wrong.
So you're not approachablebecause you aren't coachable.
Fourthly, you're notapproachable because you aren't
coachable.
Fourthly, you're notapproachable.
This is going to hurt you, butyou're not approachable because
(16:59):
not everyone is a part of yourclique.
You're not approachable becausenot everyone is a part of your
clique.
I understand having a board.
I understand having anassociate pastor.
I understand having a songleader.
I understand having a youthleader.
I get that there are people youcannot allow in the place of
leadership.
But how are you with your othercongregants?
Do you have and play favorites?
Do you have family members thatyou tend to more?
(17:21):
Not talking about your son,your wife or your daughter, not
talking about your husband, nottalking about people that live
in your home.
I'm talking about distantrelatives.
I'm talking about people thatyou've maybe known for a while.
Do they get special treatmentbecause of that?
Do you go out to eat with thosepeople all the time?
Do you spend social time withthem all the time?
(17:42):
Do you sit at Sunday churchdinners with them all the time?
Do you only ask them to sing aspecial or preach?
Do you only call or text themand tell them you are praying
for them?
I'll tell you why thereshouldn't be favorites, because
that person that isn't on thatfavorite list is usually the one
that you lack trust in.
It didn't start with lackingtrust, but it ended up that way.
(18:05):
It's usually the one that youtalk bad and gossip about.
I know you're a preacher,you're a pastor.
You don't talk bad and gossipabout anybody.
I also know that that's nottrue.
It's usually the one who isyour favorite that can convince
you to dislike the one who isn'tyour favorite.
(18:26):
I'm going to move on from there.
There is no room for cliques inchurch.
Yes, jesus had disciples whowere closer to him, who he was
training to do a work for him,but he was also surrounded by
others who wanted to learn fromhim as well, and he also rebuked
his disciples at times who werejudgmental of others.
(18:47):
I have seen church memberswhich, by the way, is a way to
show others that he wasn't apart of a clique I've seen
church members who weren't apart of anything in the church
outside of attending becausethey did not want to put in
effort to try and join yourclique.
(19:07):
I have seen church members whoeventually left because they
didn't feel good enough to beincluded.
I've seen church members giveup trying to connect to their
pastor because their pastor hasa type and they don't fit that
mold.
Get rid of cliques, get rid ofclicks.
(19:29):
Give all of your people theunderstanding that you are
pastor of all of them, each ofthem, even the ones you don't
really like, even the ones thathurt you, even the ones that
fail you.
You know, a lot of times we getrid, give up, let go of people,
(19:50):
hurt people, talk bad aboutpeople because they also have
not arrived.
They've also made mistakes.
They've also failed you Guesswhat?
You're still the pastor ofthose people as well.
So you make yourselfunapproachable because not
everyone is a part of yourclique Number five.
(20:12):
You make yourselfunapproachable because of how
you mishandled a situation prioror previously.
You have had people seek counselfrom you or seek advice for
questions that they weregrappling and, instead of
offering empathy andunderstanding, you offer
judgment, rigid doctrine ordismissiveness.
(20:34):
Maybe you have had people seekcounsel from you and, instead of
admitting you didn't know howto handle it or admitting that
you needed time to think it over, you offered a genetic or
cliched response or an answer.
Perhaps, instead of keeping theconversation or question
confidential, you told othersabout it and breached that trust
.
Instead of being a beacon ofhope for people, instead of
(20:58):
trying to find the correct andbiblical answer or answers, you
cut people off, told everyone ofwhat was said or gave an answer
based off your own feelings ona matter.
You want to know why peoplewon't approach you anymore.
It's because you keepmishandling them when they
approach you in the first place.
It's because you keep givingthem what you feel is the right
(21:22):
answer instead of what is theright answer according to the
Bible.
Perhaps you gave an answer tosomeone who trusted in you, but
they later found out that youeither didn't know the answer
and made it up, or you didn'tgenuinely seek the answer and
help them find it.
Maybe you mishandled how youdealt with a situation with one
(21:44):
congregant and that caused theother congregant to lose faith
in you as well one congregantand that caused the other
congregant to lose faith in youas well.
Pastors, teachers, preachers,leaders you make yourself
unapproachable because of howyou mishandle someone who
approached you before and thensix and finally, this one's
(22:04):
probably not going to go over sowell, but most of this podcast
probably won't anyway.
But the sixth reason why you'renot approachable is because
your conversations are centeredaround spiritual things but
never practical things.
Because your conversations arecentered around spiritual things
(22:24):
but never practical things.
Now you're really going to fallout with me, but hear me out.
People are looking for practicaladvice.
People seek knowledge more thanthey seek God, because they
have no knowledge of how to seekGod.
I'm going to repeat that Peopleseek knowledge more than they
(22:47):
seek God because they have noknowledge of how to seek God.
They were never taught, theywere never showed those things.
They were never shown how topray.
They were never shown how to behospitable.
They were never shown how towork outside of the church and
(23:08):
behave outside of the church.
You were sitting at the pewtalking with others around you
and you only talk about who gotsaved, who ran the aisle, what
chapter of the Bible you read,what sermon you preached, what
happened when you prayed.
You're eating lunch with someof them or working at the church
and talk about things that Goddid in the past or how many
people were saved in thisservice here and there, here and
(23:30):
there.
All of those things, by the way, are great things, but what
about practical speech?
What about practical lessons?
Teens are struggling withdepression.
Why not talk about thatsometime?
You're scared.
Young adults are struggling toknow where to go and what to do.
Why not talk about that?
(23:51):
Why not talk about how to findthe will of God?
People are wondering how theycan handle someone who has
wronged them.
Why not talk about that?
Why not bring that into it?
Kids are struggling withanxiety.
Kids are struggling with drugabuse.
Kids Youth pastor here,remember, hello, youth pastor.
(24:13):
Young people are strugglingwith alcohol and drug addiction
and all that you want to talkabout is how Susie Q got saved
15 years ago and is somehowmiraculously still in your
church, say, 15 years ago, andit's somehow miraculously still
(24:33):
in your church.
People are wondering how theycan mishandle someone who has
wronged them.
Why not talk about that?
Get into the spiritual bubblewhere everything is great,
spiritual things are happeningall around us, when, in reality,
for some people, things are notgreat, things are terrible,
they are struggling, they arehurting and all you care about
is a lesson you taught in Sundayschool Be practical, be open,
(24:56):
Be willing to help those who arehurting, be willing to talk
about things that no one evertalks about.
We did an episode last year.
It's our number one listen toepisode.
If you're listening, you'relive here.
Go check out that episode.
You can find us on Buzzsproutor any podcast platform of your
choice.
But our number one episode thatwe have ever done on this show
(25:20):
is titled Childhood Sexual Abuseand we talked about different
ways to help overcome that orwhat you can turn to.
But the surprising thing aboutit is that we had several church
members and pastors and leaderstry to stray us away from
talking about those things, eventhough it was something that
(25:43):
needed to be talked about.
I want to tell you something Ifyou take this approach of being
open with your congregation.
Of letting them know that youare not Jesus Christ.
Of letting them know thatyou're available.
Of letting them know that youcan be coached, that you can be
wrong, that you can learn things.
Of letting them know that wearen't in a clique or a part of
(26:06):
a clique.
Of letting them know thatyou're sorry for how you
mishandled a situation prior.
You start talking about thosethings.
You start addressing issuesthat people don't address or
that pastors don't address.
I guarantee you you're going tohave others that are against
you.
You're going to havecongregants that leave you.
(26:27):
You're going to have friendsthat you thought were going to
be on your side, no matter whatbackstab you and talk about you,
but guess what?
You're going to help a lot morepeople than those that are
leaving you.
Be open to address situationsyou never thought you'd have to
(26:48):
address.
Just because you never thoughtthat you would see a day where
kids, teens and adults arestruggling like they are.
Does not give you any excuse toturn a blind eye and pretend
like there's nothing that can bedone short of prayer.
God gave us science.
God gave us logic.
God gave us the ability tolearn and teach new things.
(27:11):
God gave us the ability to gothrough things that are taboo in
church, that we can helpsomeone else who is facing those
things.
You're listening to this episodeand you feel like I've hit some
of the points that you've dealtwith, or hit some of the points
that you've dealt with, or hitsome of the points that you have
portrayed.
(27:32):
You haven't been the mostapproachable pastor.
Guess what?
Perfect time to change rightnow, perfect time to put your
money where your mouth is.
You say I want to see churchgrowth Great, be approachable.
Many, many, many churches whoare growing right now, who have
(27:53):
congregants that are gettinghelped and blessed and touched
by God, are there because thereare pastors and people in
leadership who are not perfect,who never claim to be perfect,
who don't portray perfection,who are humble and not prideful.
The unapproachable pastor.
(28:16):
The unapproachable pastor.
I have so many more I could goover.
I could probably write a bookabout it.
I want to thank you all forlistening.
Thank you all who have attended, joined in Again.
Go message us if you want apodcast.
Let me just turn that the rightway.
The Everyday Christian Podcastis up $25.
That includes shipping.
If you are wanting to listen toour podcast.
(28:36):
You can find us by searchingthe Everyday Christian Podcast,
that's the Every and DayChristian Podcast, or separate
the Everyday Christian Podcaston the platform of your choice.
There it is.
I spelled that and typed itjust now as we were doing this
episode.
Or you can find us on Facebook.
You can find us on TikTok, youcan find us on Instagram.
(28:58):
You can find us on just aboutany platform you want.
We're on Twitch, we're onYouTube, we're on Facebook by
searching at podcast the numberfor him at podcast the number
for him.
I at podcast the number for himat podcast the number for him.
I want to thank you all forjoining us.
I pray that something alonghere helped, something along
here challenged you.
If you have a question aboutany of this, please message us,
please leave us a comment,please share this.
(29:19):
And again, if you want to be apart of the virtual class, we
are about to start that up herein the next few weeks.
It's starting to really makesome traction.
A lot of people are joining.
We have limited availabilitythere.
So if you want to join thatclass, please message us and let
us know.
And, like I said, you'relistening to the Everyday
Christian Podcast.
We apply scriptural principlesto everyday Christian lives.
(29:41):
Thank you and God bless.
Thank you.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.