August 14, 2025 • 37 mins
Erik Brenner pulls back the curtain on wealth management strategies that were once exclusive to the ultra-wealthy but are now accessible to everyday millionaires. With 32 years of experience operating both wealth advisory and tax accounting firms, Erik delivers practical insights that bridge the gap between financial planning and tax strategy.
Whether you're a business owner, medical professional, or high-income earner, this episode delivers actionable strategies to optimize your finances. As Erik notes, success in wealth management isn't just about making money—it's about keeping more of what you earn through intelligent planning and tax strategy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Show with
Ryan Greenberg and Nick Kalfas.
Hi guys, welcome back toanother episode of the Everyday
Millionaire Show.
We are here with Eric Brenner,eric, so give us a quick little
background on who you are, thenwe can get into some questions
(00:21):
that I took from your bio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, sure, so I am and own and operate an
independent wealth advisory firm, along with a tax and
accounting firm, and I've beendoing this going on my 32nd year
and we work with individualstypically pre-retired, retired
doctors, medical professionalsand business owners on helping
(00:46):
them make good financialdecisions all the way through
life, but particularly as theyget closer to retirement and
into retirement.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
All right, so the tax strategist of sorts, as well as
a financial advisor as well asa financial advisor.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, we do, you know, because we have the
tax part of our business and wejust find more and more
opportunities for clients totake advantage of tax strategies
that they may not know about,and so we, their mitigation
strategies, you know.
When it makes sense, we, youknow, we will utilize those as
well for clients.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
What are some of the most common strategies that you
are advising people to save themthe most amount of taxes?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so there are strategies from income offset
strategies.
Certainly it could be structureof entities that could save
some money all the way down tocreating and setting up their
solar business.
They get really nice taxoffsets by doing that in the
(02:03):
solar space, tax offsets bydoing that in the solar space.
So we really over the last fewyears have continued to bring
kind of these mitigationstrategies to folks that are not
ultra high net worth.
The ultra high net worthcommunity has had and utilized
these strategies for many, manyyears, and so that's just a
(02:24):
piece of what we do as anoverall picture.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Nick, you got anything, yeah, so I've got
another one.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So you were a tax strategist first, and then you
started incorporating, teachingpeople how to build wealth and
how to move their money farther.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It was actually the other way around.
So we started in the wealthmanagement business, financial
planning, and started that wayand really, as we continue to
grow and work with people, thenwe moved into just adding this
(02:59):
as another piece of the business.
Right.
And the other reason, or one ofthe those what I would call
advanced strategies they werenot available.
Certainly, when I started outin the business you, they
weren't available to most people.
They were available to a lot ofyou know institutionally.
And then the ultra high networth that you know you had to
(03:22):
qualify.
The bogeys were often extremelyhigh and it was very few people
that could benefit from it.
And they've just brought thosestrategies to.
You still have to qualify inmany instances, but it's not
near the thresholds that you hadin the past.
(03:42):
And we found that taxes, youknow, often and most often are
the biggest expense for someonein their retirement years.
So all of that combined, youknow that's why we've integrated
that as just another you knowtool in our toolbox that we can
help people through making thosedecisions.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So let's say you're just starting out in wealth
management, trying to grow thattype of business.
How do you gain trust fromcustomers and clients who want
to work with you?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, it's a tough business.
I've seen a lot of people comeand go, a lot of people that are
extremely high educated, verysmart, but you do have to gain
that trust and so really thebusiness, I think, has evolved
to if you want to start in thatbusiness, you probably want to
establish or get with somebodythat's already established like
(04:40):
a residency program and gainsome extreme knowledge.
Things have gotten way morecomplex and then the trust of it
is not just your knowledge, buthow you're communicating to
clients, how you're providingthe advice to clients, where's
your advice coming from.
(05:01):
Those are all key components tobeing successful in the
business.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I'm going to piggyback off of that because I
thought that was a greatquestion For someone that's
younger too, I'm 27,.
Used to want to be a financialadvisor of sorts, but I think
the overall burden of saying,hey, like I'm a financial
planner, I'm 27, you're advising, you know typically people that
(05:26):
are in their 50s or 60s, theydon't really want to listen to
you.
So what would be your advicefor someone that's younger,
that's thinking about gettinginto financial planning or
advising?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, no, I think it is a good point.
And a couple things.
One is that you know there's alot of really good work that can
be done with even youngergeneration.
You know, as you were talkingabout and working with those
folks, that you know have needsand they need to get their plan
established.
You know they have differentneeds but they get their plan
(05:57):
established.
And I would say that would isan area that you could start and
you know, relate to those thatyou're sitting across the table
from and be able to kind ofguide them and give them advice
along the way and then again, asyou grow experience and
knowledge and seeing more of it,then you can kind of gain the
(06:22):
confidence of, you know, thoseolder, you know that maybe are
more accomplished.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Right, yeah, that's a great answer.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So what does and you don't have to answer this, but
just in a general sense.
I mean, I guess you know answerit in the way you would want to
what is the compensation for,like, an average client that you
would bring in?
Is it, you know, commissionbased, Is it hourly based, or
how has the structure worked out?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, so well in our model because we're a fiduciary
and so a fiduciary.
If those that don't know that,that means that first off we
must act in the best interest ofthe clients.
Not all advisors nor advisoryfirms are true fiduciary firms,
and so if they're not a truefiduciary firm and they're
registered with their securitiesregulators, they may have some
(07:16):
form of commission based.
So that's how they getcompensated is when they sell a
product they get paid.
We don't do that.
How we get compensated iseither assets we manage, so we
get compensated based on thosethat we oversee, so it can be
all their assets, includingtheir retirement plans.
But that's one way we getcompensated and the major way or
(07:40):
someone pays us to do the work,so that's how we get
compensated.
So it depends first off on yourquestion how they're structured
to be able to charge legallywith the regulators, and then
that determines how they'regoing to get compensated.
As a fiduciary, you know wereally say, well, look, we're
(08:04):
not, we're in your best interest, it doesn't matter to us if you
invest A, b or C, you knowwe're not making one dime
different.
You know you're paying us,we're going to do what's best
for you and that's the ultimatedecision.
It's not swayed on what productyou go into.
So when you say, like theprofits for you are a percentage
(08:29):
of what those people allow youto manage, is that what yeah,
that's what they call afee-based model, where you know,
we if we oversee, you know, andthe asset management,
investment management is justone piece, but if we oversee and
help and make decisions withthose, then we would charge to
(08:50):
do so.
So we do better if they dobetter and we do worse if they
go down.
So we're on the same side ofthe table as the client.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And is it on an annual basis?
So let's say you're managing amillion dollars of someone's
money.
Do you get like a percentage ofthat each year, or is it just a
one-time fee or what does thatlook like?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And so it does an average.
So there's an annual fee, butthen it's taken out.
If it's monthly, it's taken outmonthly, so divided by 12.
And so it's calculated on anongoing basis and that's how
(09:37):
it's compensated.
So, again, the markets go upand down.
Of course, the year the fee isgoing to go up and down a little
bit, depending on what'shappened with the overall
accounts and markets.
And what that does is a coupleof things.
One is it makes it easy forthose that are paying, because
it's not this one big chunk.
You know it comes out of theaccount.
And then, secondly, you know ithelps us as it relates to being
(10:01):
able to provide the advice andguidance along the way that
clients need on an ongoing basisthroughout the year.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
What's your all-around opinion on the
current state of the market?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, it's been interesting.
Certainly the conversationswe've been having is a bit of
surprise, but delighted.
But a lot of folks aresurprised.
You know, when tariffs wereannounced back in the spring,
you know and we saw this dip inthe market, kind of a pullback
for a pretty short period oftime I think a lot of people
(10:33):
were thinking, ok, here we go,we're going to go into another,
you know 08, 09.
That didn't happen.
You know, the pullback was forjust a handful of weeks.
The pullback was for just ahandful of weeks.
And so what we're saying is theunderlying fundamentals right
now actually are pretty solid,and so that's a good thing.
Company profits have been goodthat's also a good thing, and so
(10:58):
those things help drive themarket.
So I wouldn't call it strong,but I also wouldn't call it weak
.
And so if we can kind of getthrough this and get some more
clarification on tariffs and getsome more clarification as we
kind of move throughout the yearinto the fall, then I think
there's an opportunity for us tokind of, you know, grow further
(11:21):
and even grow more on theupside.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So the reason I was on the phone with my Merrill
Lynch advisor today and we had,I guess, staggered a bunch of
calls and I sold all my NVIDIAcalls and now they're in the
money, so I was figuring out howto roll those over.
Is that stuff that you do likestrategy wise, or do you do more
like index funds and like howaggressive do you get?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
essentially, yeah, I mean it is based on the client
and the risk tolerance of theclient.
So you know we manage thingsfrom soup to nuts all the way
through pretty much.
And so you know covered callsand options they're just not for
everybody.
So you know covered calls andoptions they're just not for
everybody.
You know portfolio stocksblended with models that have
(12:10):
exchange traded funds withinthem often work very well for
clients.
And then we actively manage itand make adjustments and changes
based on our data, you know, tomake sure clients stay within
their risk tolerance.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
How do you determine that?
How do you determine?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
their risk?
Did they tell you, or is itsomething that you help them
with?
Yeah, it's actually puttogether several ways.
First way is that through justconversations we can get a sense
of kind of where they fall riskwise.
You know if they haveinvestments already.
You can get a sense of wherethey've invested and what their
risk is.
Secondly is they will take arisk analysis and it's not very
(12:57):
long, but we do have clientstake a risk analysis to help
determine how they really feelabout risk.
To help determine how theyreally feel about risk.
And then what we talk about isonce we have that selected, you
know, worst case scenario,what's the downside, what's the
upside?
What are you giving up bytaking this risk?
(13:19):
You know, what are youprotecting by taking this risk?
So, between all of that, thenwe get a pretty good sense of
where they are and where theyfall from a risk perspective.
They can always change it, butthey feel pretty confident, I
think, going in that OK, I meanI'm within my risk tolerance,
that I'm comfortable with.
(13:40):
As you know, a client.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
So what's your, what's your opinion on real
estate as it pertains to wealthbuilding?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, no, I think real estate has a great sense of
you know, havingdiversification.
You know diversification whereit's an asset class that you
know doesn't fall in the kind ofstock bond.
You know that that period of it, certainly, if it's structured
properly and you know it'sbought properly and all of that,
(14:09):
you've got the cash flows thatcan come with that.
You've got some great taxbenefits in real estate.
So you know all those piecescome into play.
When it comes into, you know,individuals, then they really
have to determine how activethey want to be.
If they don't want to be active, you know what is your future
(14:34):
goals.
So you know what's that plan?
Is that going to get in the way?
I have seen situations where youknow people have real estate as
a portion of their overallinvestable assets and it worked
out great.
And then I've seen times wherethey got into it and it wasn't
(14:56):
really what they thought itwould be.
It's a lot of're.
It's just not for them.
So I think it can be a reallygood piece.
Um, I think that, um, it justreally comes down to the
situation and what they want toaccomplish.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that you're, cause you're talking to three
guys that 90% of their wealth isall put into real estate.
So that's uh, I would say, yeah, definitely well over 90%.
So we're hoping that we're onthat one side of the story that
you just said.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah exactly I'm sure you are, because you're
there, you know.
But sometimes, as you'veprobably seen it, people get
into it and you know they, youknow it's not for everybody, but
it can be a really gooddiversification piece.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
So yeah, yeah, just real quick.
And I'm sure we have like a lotof business owners that are out
there and this is somethingthat, nick, you guys have
probably struggled with in thepast and I'm hitting it now.
But when it relates to likesaving on taxes and the tax
benefits of real estate and notshowing a profit, sometimes
(16:02):
right and then you have thesebusiness owners or contractors
that do need to buy a house andthey do need to get a loan, how
do you typically advise thoseguys on their situation?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean now you're getting a little bit into
the tax side of it.
But I will comment on a coupleof things.
One is that certainly is abalance.
I mean you can't show a lossall the way through and then try
to.
You know a loss all the waythrough and then try to, you
know, acquire right, get a loan,you know, be good and build
relationships with the banks.
(16:34):
So you know that is a balancingact in some cases.
So what I would say is it canbe a minimization, maybe not a
zeroization, zero it out, it's aminimize it to where it makes
sense.
You know, often too, when we getinto structure, this could be
(16:56):
real estate, it could be otherthings, buying, you know,
acquisition of companies,businesses and so forth.
You know there's also called adbacks and so you know they can
run.
You know, and often run proformas and determine on.
You know, well, you're showingthis amount of profit, but
really, when we add back this,this, this, we add this back,
(17:19):
what is the true cashflow of thebusiness?
Or in sense of the real estate,the real estate.
So I've seen, if you get reallysavvy, not only investors, but
also they've got good guidanceand they're working with good
bankers and they understand that.
You know that's a sales part ofit Because most business owners
(17:43):
run stuff through the businessright For the deduction all of
us do it.
So that's just one example.
So coming up with what you knowkind of true profit is and
cashflow, and you know the greatthing about real estate is they
can attach to it right Meaningloans.
They can attach to it if youdefault.
(18:05):
So that's a you know that's abenefit versus them loaning
money just based on cashflow orprofit of a business and they
don't have things to attach justin case you default.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yep, all good points.
Can you name some mistakes thathigh-income earners make when
planning for retirement?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
that high income earners make when planning for
retirement.
Yeah, I think I mean there's acouple big ones.
One is that they save, butthey're not saving potentially
in the most efficient place.
So you know, we now havetax-free investments, roths,
iras and other investments thatare hugely beneficial on the
(18:51):
other end.
And so when they're saving,they're working.
The question was high income, sothey're higher income, they're
working, they're saving, butthey're not thinking about the
consequences on the other end.
They're not thinking about theconsequences on the other end.
So we see the other end and wesee where people retire and they
(19:18):
have accounts that now, whenthey withdraw, they are 100%
taxable period versus havingtax-free or some split of that
some taxable, some tax-free.
So I think one of the mistakeswe see for sure is they're just
not thinking about the other end.
They're thinking about the hereand now.
That's one.
Secondly is that if they'rehigh-income earners, okay,
(19:41):
probably their tax is higher andthey just get used to paying
the tax.
So most of them do not likepaying tax, but they have the
income to pay it and they'rebusy and so they just keep
paying it.
So it's like okay, I calculate,end it up, this is what I owe
or this is what I getting back.
(20:03):
This is my quarterly, you know.
However that works out and theymove on to the next year and
they really do not have somebodysaying, okay, let's look at
planning the current year.
Where are you landing?
Where do you?
Let's put a plan in place tosee if there's anything we could
change during the current year.
(20:23):
Sounds kind of funny.
They just keep paying it, butif they have the income coming
in and go, well, I hate taxes,but you know what the income's
coming in and supporting it.
So I'm just going to keep doingmy job, I'm going to pay the
tax and I'm going to move on areyou referring mainly to people
that have like a w-2 income or?
could be both.
(20:44):
Yeah, could be both.
Yeah, could be both.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Sometimes, you know, we take, you know, owner
distributions instead of like atrue salary, and those things
are not, you know, as taxable.
So do you still like suggestthe same thing for somebody that
owns their business, ratherthan somebody that's a high
income earner on a W-2?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, I mean it's all depending on the business,
correct?
And so you know, ultimatelyit's still what ends up you know
what's taxable, not taxable.
That's what ends up to it.
So I'm referring to kind of allaspects.
You know how much you'redrawing out, you know where's
(21:27):
the bottom line land.
The other thing is, it's theplanning of, as I said, what's
at the other end.
You know it seems good today,but what's at the other end is
also important.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I have a general question.
So should your accountant bethe one helping plan or should
that be separate from youraccountant, Like should you have
a financial planner to helpplan and also work with your
accountant?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, no, if you have an accountant, that's proactive
, that's great.
So many of the accountants thatwe run across are reactive or
they already.
They're entering numbers intothe box and then they tell
someone that you know.
In this case, if we're talkingabout self-employed, okay,
(22:18):
here's your tax bill, here's thequarterlies that produced.
You owe this, also on top inApril of your tax bill, and then
pay this amount and then I'llsee you next year Versus, you
know what this is the tax andthen pay this amount and then
I'll see you next year, versus,you know what this is the tax
and the way it is.
Let's meet mid-year and talkabout where are you at in your
(22:39):
business.
You know anything changed.
Let's talk proactively.
What can we do right to reducethis current year?
So if you have that in anaccountant or CPA, that's great.
We find a challenge often thatthey don't do that.
They don't do a lot of planning.
Advisors can drive that, sothey can drive the planning part
(23:01):
and they can integrate with thetax people and that's a great
team A lot of advisors.
Depending on if they work for afirm or how their situation is,
they may not be able to talkmuch about the tax situation,
but they can help drive that andgetting to.
Okay, you know we really needto meet with your accountant or
(23:24):
your CPA and you know talk aboutstrategies that could be
utilized.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So if you had both a financial planner and a CPA,
it's a good idea to have them onmeetings.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Absolutely yeah, there should be a coordination,
because what one does the otheraffects and vice versa.
And plus it's gotten just somuch more complex that just
either one of them is not goingto know at all.
It's just not.
It's not possible, especiallyif they're really really broad
(24:01):
based, and I mean that you knowthey don't focus in on one area.
If they're really broad basedand you know they do you know
the accountant does alldifferent kinds of businesses
and they're broad based it'sreally hard to focus in on a
particular segment, and so themworking together is an important
(24:23):
piece.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
So why don't all CPA firms just have their own
in-house planners to help theirbusiness grow in that sense as
well, instead of having twoindependent businesses trying to
get together to figure out?
Well, that's what he did,someone's right.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's it's a good question.
There are firms that have thatintegrated and I I suppose
there's a lot of reasons.
Some of the firms that I knowthat don't have it.
You know, again, it takes themout of focus.
So they don't.
You know it takes them out offocus.
There are many, many advisoryfirms now that were started by
(24:59):
CPAs and so they just naturallyprogressed over to that area.
So that's a piece of it andthey just didn't want the
undertaking, you know.
So you'd ask why CPA firms?
They don't have the advisorybusiness.
The advisory business is underdifferent regulatory bodies.
(25:22):
You have different riskinvolved with that business
versus the CPA business,experience and all of that.
The other thing I've run acrossis a lot of counting tax firms.
They do not want theresponsibility, which I
appreciate, of managing,overseeing people's assets.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
They just do not want that responsibility.
So isn't wealth?
Is wealth management andfinancial planning?
Aren't they two differentthings, though, so they would
take two different people to dothose things.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
No, not necessarily.
You know you can have it's,they're exchangeable words a lot
of times.
So wealth management, you know,specifically, could be just
wealth or another just on youraccounts, where financial
planning is is stated orbelieved to be more
(26:19):
comprehensive, right Than justwealth.
So, and then they can beinterchangeable.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Gotcha.
Yeah, my thought of it waswealth management would be more
so for managing someone's moneythat they already have, and then
financial planning would bemore so, figuring out what they
have to do to give them the mostmoney in their pocket at the
end of the day.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, it sounds separate and it's a great point,
but oftentimes they'reinterchangeable and you know the
company or the advisor they dothis.
Very similar in many waysthings Now there are advisors
that do just wealth management.
You have an account, I'llmanage the account.
(27:03):
I'm going to give you advice onthat account.
Okay, they don't really look atit comprehensively.
So you have an estate problemor you want to talk about estate
planning?
That's not something I do.
So there's wealth managersthat's what they do, whereas
there's financial planners thatsay, if you have an estate issue
, I'm more than willing to kindof talk about what might be best
(27:27):
, set it up, help coordinatewith your attorney, making sure
that everything's getting inplace.
But oftentimes it can beinterchangeable.
You really have to determinewithin the firm.
You know what do they do andhow comprehensive are they.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So I guess I was thinking more terms of like tax
planning.
So would that be as a taxplanner, then separate from a
financial planner?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Again, oftentimes a financial planner can be, and is
, a tax planner as well and so,like our advisors, we do tax
planning.
And then what we do is, when weget to a point, or if we have
questions or need to bring inthe tax, the accountant, cpa,
(28:10):
then we bring them in and, youknow, have a discussion on the
situation and kind ofdirectionally, what you know,
how are we going to, how are wegoing to move, how are we going
to do this move going forward?
So oftentimes you know, aplanner can also be that really
tax side of it and do some ofthe planning there.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
So question with the way technology is going and
everything, do you see AI beingable to replace the financial
planning side and the taxstrategy side for someone that
maybe just has an accountantthat's not, you know, as
proactive as you may hope, andthen you could just use chat,
gpt or an AI to kind of planyour business and finances?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, so I would see AI as an enhancement to be able
to enhance the tools that wehave to be able to give the
advice, for sure, but I do notsee it replacing it.
For multiple reasons, like alot of industries medical and
all the other reasons that youknow it still doesn't put in
(29:16):
touch with the actual client.
There's multitude of situationswe still, with all the
technology, even though we havetoday we do not have we can't
put all the information of asituation in one tool and solve
everything.
We have to use multiple tools.
Oh no, ai is pretty close andsolve everything we have to use
multiple.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I know AI is pretty close.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, but you still it can be wrong and there's just
so nuanced that there's just alot of that.
You need to work with theclient directly.
So I'll tell you the industryhas zero fear that it's being
(29:57):
replaced If you're not utilizingit.
It's one of those that you knowyou're going to.
You're going to fall behind ifyou're not utilizing it as a
tool.
But we have much more in wealthand we have a couple tax bombs
coming that are not tax lawsthat were just signed.
(30:24):
Tax bombs coming on people inretirement that you know they
don't.
Oftentimes people don't retirenow in a lower income than when
they were working.
They are making the same amountor more and paying more tax.
So those situations need, Ibelieve, a one-on-one advice,
(30:50):
making sure that they're makinggood decisions along the way.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
How many employees do you have?
20.
And as far as like a ratio ofhow much or is it how many
clients versus how many advisorsyou need, Like what can one
advisor like take on?
Like how many clients do youhave?
I guess is the question for 20employees?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Well, I mean, the 20 is not all advisors, so there's
support team and you know we dothat's, you know we do other
things accounting work andthings like that so they're not
all specifically client related.
The answer, the answer reallyis it depends on the client, the
relationship, how complex, andthen the team that the advisor
(31:37):
has put around them.
So you know it could be, youknow, higher network clients
that take more work.
You really can work with less.
You can't work with more ofthose.
You have limited numbers.
So it really matters on thetype of client, the type of work
, what is the team around theadvisor.
(31:57):
All of that that comes intoplay on what's capacity.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
What was the hardest thing about growing your company
so far?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, I think one of the hardest things is that this
is hard.
My particular business for 30plus years.
It's hard business.
Really, only 2% of those thatstart in the industry make it,
(32:31):
so 98% fail.
So 98% fail and so it's a hardbusiness for the first four or
five, six, maybe even sevenyears.
It's really hard because peopleI've seen them come into the
industry really smart, a lot ofcredentials, education.
Bottom line is, you mentionedearlier, how do you build
(32:53):
rapport and trust and all ofthat.
You know you got to be able todo that, so A it's hard.
Secondly, is you know figuringout, just interacting and
building a team and how to builda really good team around you.
(33:16):
You know it didn't come naturalfor me and it's still a work in
progress in leading people.
So that's hard too, becauseyou're dealing with people.
So you know those are a couplethings that I just stick out.
That's hard.
As you know, we've grown thebusiness and continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
What percent of your income should you be investing?
Let's say there's a 20-year-oldout there who maybe makes 50 to
60 grand a year.
They have no desire to starttheir own business unless they
make that same amount for manyyears.
What percent should they beputting away and what do you
think the best strategy for themwould be to grow their money
over time?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So start off with a couple kind of rules of thumb.
Number one is 10%.
So if you put away 10%long-term of your income, so you
were saying 50, 60,000, five,$6,000 a year saved long-term.
That's number one.
(34:21):
If you put away 10% of yourincome over and you earn 10%
over 30 years, you will replaceyour income.
So just out of sight out ofmind, so just out of sight out
of mind.
Secondly is if someone's out andthey're working and they get a
(34:43):
match in any type of retirementplan, you certainly want to take
advantage of that.
It's free money, so you don'twant to overlook whatever free
money match that you have whichcould add to your 10%.
So that's important, to your10%.
So that's important.
And then when they start out,if they're just starting out,
what they can do is start offwith a simple kind of couple
(35:03):
index funds, stock index funds,long timeframe, long horizon,
invest the money and justcontinue to diligently invest
the money, adding the money.
As that grows, diversificationbecomes more important.
(35:29):
But initially you want to haveit in something that you know
long-term index fund is, youknow, a great fund over time and
a way to just start out andhave foundational, a good
foundation, built.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Gotcha, what do you think about crypto?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, I mean, I think crypto it's interesting, you
know it again, it can.
It's another asset class now.
Really, you know the industry,our industry is trying to just
figure out.
Uh, well, first off, you knowhow, what's going to be the
regulations on it, which I thinkstill getting figured out.
Um, and then the.
(36:05):
The big thing that I've seen,um with a lot of the folks we
work with is just understandingit, you know, and um, so if
someone feels uncomfortable andthey don't understand it, it's
probably not the best investmentfor them, but I think it can be
a good asset diversified piecethat would come out with you
know, okay, what's the risktolerance?
(36:26):
We talked about that earlier.
You know, is it something thatthey are wanting to invest some
in or a portion of it?
But it's definitely aninteresting asset class.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
All right, I think we have another podcast in a
couple of minutes, so you guyshave anything else for Eric?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
No, I think that was good.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
All right, eric, we appreciate your time today.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
Guys, it was nice chatting withyou and I just wrote a book
called the Personal CFO.
If people want to get a freecopy, I'll send them to
hilltopwealthtaxcom slashpodcast.
Hilltopwealthtaxcom slashpodcast.
You can sign up for a free copy.
You can also set up a 15-minuteintroductory call if you've got
(37:14):
questions for us or want tofind more out about us.
But the book you know talks alot about what we're talking
about and a lot more.
I think it's a good read.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And where are you based out of?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
We're based out of Indiana and we have an office in
Michigan, Florida, so we have ahandful of offices around the
country.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Awesome, all right, well, if anybody wants the book,
reach out to Eric and Eric, weappreciate your time today All
right, thank you so much, guys.
Welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Show with
Ryan Greenberg and Nick Kalfas.
Hi guys, welcome back toanother episode of the Everyday
Millionaire Show.
We are here with Eric Brenner,eric, so give us a quick little
background on who you are, thenwe can get into some questions
(00:21):
that I took from your bio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, sure, so I am and own and operate an
independent wealth advisory firm, along with a tax and
accounting firm, and I've beendoing this going on my 32nd year
and we work with individualstypically pre-retired, retired
doctors, medical professionalsand business owners on helping
(00:46):
them make good financialdecisions all the way through
life, but particularly as theyget closer to retirement and
into retirement.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
All right, so the tax strategist of sorts, as well as
a financial advisor as well asa financial advisor.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, we do, you know, because we have the
tax part of our business and wejust find more and more
opportunities for clients totake advantage of tax strategies
that they may not know about,and so we, their mitigation
strategies, you know.
When it makes sense, we, youknow, we will utilize those as
well for clients.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
What are some of the most common strategies that you
are advising people to save themthe most amount of taxes?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so there are strategies from income offset
strategies.
Certainly it could be structureof entities that could save
some money all the way down tocreating and setting up their
solar business.
They get really nice taxoffsets by doing that in the
(02:03):
solar space, tax offsets bydoing that in the solar space.
So we really over the last fewyears have continued to bring
kind of these mitigationstrategies to folks that are not
ultra high net worth.
The ultra high net worthcommunity has had and utilized
these strategies for many, manyyears, and so that's just a
(02:24):
piece of what we do as anoverall picture.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Nick, you got anything, yeah, so I've got
another one.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So you were a tax strategist first, and then you
started incorporating, teachingpeople how to build wealth and
how to move their money farther.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It was actually the other way around.
So we started in the wealthmanagement business, financial
planning, and started that wayand really, as we continue to
grow and work with people, thenwe moved into just adding this
(02:59):
as another piece of the business.
Right.
And the other reason, or one ofthe those what I would call
advanced strategies they werenot available.
Certainly, when I started outin the business you, they
weren't available to most people.
They were available to a lot ofyou know institutionally.
And then the ultra high networth that you know you had to
(03:22):
qualify.
The bogeys were often extremelyhigh and it was very few people
that could benefit from it.
And they've just brought thosestrategies to.
You still have to qualify inmany instances, but it's not
near the thresholds that you hadin the past.
(03:42):
And we found that taxes, youknow, often and most often are
the biggest expense for someonein their retirement years.
So all of that combined, youknow that's why we've integrated
that as just another you knowtool in our toolbox that we can
help people through making thosedecisions.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So let's say you're just starting out in wealth
management, trying to grow thattype of business.
How do you gain trust fromcustomers and clients who want
to work with you?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, it's a tough business.
I've seen a lot of people comeand go, a lot of people that are
extremely high educated, verysmart, but you do have to gain
that trust and so really thebusiness, I think, has evolved
to if you want to start in thatbusiness, you probably want to
establish or get with somebodythat's already established like
(04:40):
a residency program and gainsome extreme knowledge.
Things have gotten way morecomplex and then the trust of it
is not just your knowledge, buthow you're communicating to
clients, how you're providingthe advice to clients, where's
your advice coming from.
(05:01):
Those are all key components tobeing successful in the
business.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I'm going to piggyback off of that because I
thought that was a greatquestion For someone that's
younger too, I'm 27,.
Used to want to be a financialadvisor of sorts, but I think
the overall burden of saying,hey, like I'm a financial
planner, I'm 27, you're advising, you know typically people that
(05:26):
are in their 50s or 60s, theydon't really want to listen to
you.
So what would be your advicefor someone that's younger,
that's thinking about gettinginto financial planning or
advising?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, no, I think it is a good point.
And a couple things.
One is that you know there's alot of really good work that can
be done with even youngergeneration.
You know, as you were talkingabout and working with those
folks, that you know have needsand they need to get their plan
established.
You know they have differentneeds but they get their plan
(05:57):
established.
And I would say that would isan area that you could start and
you know, relate to those thatyou're sitting across the table
from and be able to kind ofguide them and give them advice
along the way and then again, asyou grow experience and
knowledge and seeing more of it,then you can kind of gain the
(06:22):
confidence of, you know, thoseolder, you know that maybe are
more accomplished.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Right, yeah, that's a great answer.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So what does and you don't have to answer this, but
just in a general sense.
I mean, I guess you know answerit in the way you would want to
what is the compensation for,like, an average client that you
would bring in?
Is it, you know, commissionbased, Is it hourly based, or
how has the structure worked out?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, so well in our model because we're a fiduciary
and so a fiduciary.
If those that don't know that,that means that first off we
must act in the best interest ofthe clients.
Not all advisors nor advisoryfirms are true fiduciary firms,
and so if they're not a truefiduciary firm and they're
registered with their securitiesregulators, they may have some
(07:16):
form of commission based.
So that's how they getcompensated is when they sell a
product they get paid.
We don't do that.
How we get compensated iseither assets we manage, so we
get compensated based on thosethat we oversee, so it can be
all their assets, includingtheir retirement plans.
But that's one way we getcompensated and the major way or
(07:40):
someone pays us to do the work,so that's how we get
compensated.
So it depends first off on yourquestion how they're structured
to be able to charge legallywith the regulators, and then
that determines how they'regoing to get compensated.
As a fiduciary, you know wereally say, well, look, we're
(08:04):
not, we're in your best interest, it doesn't matter to us if you
invest A, b or C, you knowwe're not making one dime
different.
You know you're paying us,we're going to do what's best
for you and that's the ultimatedecision.
It's not swayed on what productyou go into.
So when you say, like theprofits for you are a percentage
(08:29):
of what those people allow youto manage, is that what yeah,
that's what they call afee-based model, where you know,
we if we oversee, you know, andthe asset management,
investment management is justone piece, but if we oversee and
help and make decisions withthose, then we would charge to
(08:50):
do so.
So we do better if they dobetter and we do worse if they
go down.
So we're on the same side ofthe table as the client.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And is it on an annual basis?
So let's say you're managing amillion dollars of someone's
money.
Do you get like a percentage ofthat each year, or is it just a
one-time fee or what does thatlook like?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And so it does an average.
So there's an annual fee, butthen it's taken out.
If it's monthly, it's taken outmonthly, so divided by 12.
And so it's calculated on anongoing basis and that's how
(09:37):
it's compensated.
So, again, the markets go upand down.
Of course, the year the fee isgoing to go up and down a little
bit, depending on what'shappened with the overall
accounts and markets.
And what that does is a coupleof things.
One is it makes it easy forthose that are paying, because
it's not this one big chunk.
You know it comes out of theaccount.
And then, secondly, you know ithelps us as it relates to being
(10:01):
able to provide the advice andguidance along the way that
clients need on an ongoing basisthroughout the year.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
What's your all-around opinion on the
current state of the market?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, it's been interesting.
Certainly the conversationswe've been having is a bit of
surprise, but delighted.
But a lot of folks aresurprised.
You know, when tariffs wereannounced back in the spring,
you know and we saw this dip inthe market, kind of a pullback
for a pretty short period oftime I think a lot of people
(10:33):
were thinking, ok, here we go,we're going to go into another,
you know 08, 09.
That didn't happen.
You know, the pullback was forjust a handful of weeks.
The pullback was for just ahandful of weeks.
And so what we're saying is theunderlying fundamentals right
now actually are pretty solid,and so that's a good thing.
Company profits have been goodthat's also a good thing, and so
(10:58):
those things help drive themarket.
So I wouldn't call it strong,but I also wouldn't call it weak
.
And so if we can kind of getthrough this and get some more
clarification on tariffs and getsome more clarification as we
kind of move throughout the yearinto the fall, then I think
there's an opportunity for us tokind of, you know, grow further
(11:21):
and even grow more on theupside.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So the reason I was on the phone with my Merrill
Lynch advisor today and we had,I guess, staggered a bunch of
calls and I sold all my NVIDIAcalls and now they're in the
money, so I was figuring out howto roll those over.
Is that stuff that you do likestrategy wise, or do you do more
like index funds and like howaggressive do you get?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
essentially, yeah, I mean it is based on the client
and the risk tolerance of theclient.
So you know we manage thingsfrom soup to nuts all the way
through pretty much.
And so you know covered callsand options they're just not for
everybody.
So you know covered calls andoptions they're just not for
everybody.
You know portfolio stocksblended with models that have
(12:10):
exchange traded funds withinthem often work very well for
clients.
And then we actively manage itand make adjustments and changes
based on our data, you know, tomake sure clients stay within
their risk tolerance.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
How do you determine that?
How do you determine?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
their risk?
Did they tell you, or is itsomething that you help them
with?
Yeah, it's actually puttogether several ways.
First way is that through justconversations we can get a sense
of kind of where they fall riskwise.
You know if they haveinvestments already.
You can get a sense of wherethey've invested and what their
risk is.
Secondly is they will take arisk analysis and it's not very
(12:57):
long, but we do have clientstake a risk analysis to help
determine how they really feelabout risk.
To help determine how theyreally feel about risk.
And then what we talk about isonce we have that selected, you
know, worst case scenario,what's the downside, what's the
upside?
What are you giving up bytaking this risk?
(13:19):
You know, what are youprotecting by taking this risk?
So, between all of that, thenwe get a pretty good sense of
where they are and where theyfall from a risk perspective.
They can always change it, butthey feel pretty confident, I
think, going in that OK, I meanI'm within my risk tolerance,
that I'm comfortable with.
(13:40):
As you know, a client.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
So what's your, what's your opinion on real
estate as it pertains to wealthbuilding?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, no, I think real estate has a great sense of
you know, havingdiversification.
You know diversification whereit's an asset class that you
know doesn't fall in the kind ofstock bond.
You know that that period of it, certainly, if it's structured
properly and you know it'sbought properly and all of that,
(14:09):
you've got the cash flows thatcan come with that.
You've got some great taxbenefits in real estate.
So you know all those piecescome into play.
When it comes into, you know,individuals, then they really
have to determine how activethey want to be.
If they don't want to be active, you know what is your future
(14:34):
goals.
So you know what's that plan?
Is that going to get in the way?
I have seen situations where youknow people have real estate as
a portion of their overallinvestable assets and it worked
out great.
And then I've seen times wherethey got into it and it wasn't
(14:56):
really what they thought itwould be.
It's a lot of're.
It's just not for them.
So I think it can be a reallygood piece.
Um, I think that, um, it justreally comes down to the
situation and what they want toaccomplish.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that you're, cause you're talking to three
guys that 90% of their wealth isall put into real estate.
So that's uh, I would say, yeah, definitely well over 90%.
So we're hoping that we're onthat one side of the story that
you just said.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah exactly I'm sure you are, because you're
there, you know.
But sometimes, as you'veprobably seen it, people get
into it and you know they, youknow it's not for everybody, but
it can be a really gooddiversification piece.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
So yeah, yeah, just real quick.
And I'm sure we have like a lotof business owners that are out
there and this is somethingthat, nick, you guys have
probably struggled with in thepast and I'm hitting it now.
But when it relates to likesaving on taxes and the tax
benefits of real estate and notshowing a profit, sometimes
(16:02):
right and then you have thesebusiness owners or contractors
that do need to buy a house andthey do need to get a loan, how
do you typically advise thoseguys on their situation?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean now you're getting a little bit into
the tax side of it.
But I will comment on a coupleof things.
One is that certainly is abalance.
I mean you can't show a lossall the way through and then try
to.
You know a loss all the waythrough and then try to, you
know, acquire right, get a loan,you know, be good and build
relationships with the banks.
(16:34):
So you know that is a balancingact in some cases.
So what I would say is it canbe a minimization, maybe not a
zeroization, zero it out, it's aminimize it to where it makes
sense.
You know, often too, when we getinto structure, this could be
(16:56):
real estate, it could be otherthings, buying, you know,
acquisition of companies,businesses and so forth.
You know there's also called adbacks and so you know they can
run.
You know, and often run proformas and determine on.
You know, well, you're showingthis amount of profit, but
really, when we add back this,this, this, we add this back,
(17:19):
what is the true cashflow of thebusiness?
Or in sense of the real estate,the real estate.
So I've seen, if you get reallysavvy, not only investors, but
also they've got good guidanceand they're working with good
bankers and they understand that.
You know that's a sales part ofit Because most business owners
(17:43):
run stuff through the businessright For the deduction all of
us do it.
So that's just one example.
So coming up with what you knowkind of true profit is and
cashflow, and you know the greatthing about real estate is they
can attach to it right Meaningloans.
They can attach to it if youdefault.
(18:05):
So that's a you know that's abenefit versus them loaning
money just based on cashflow orprofit of a business and they
don't have things to attach justin case you default.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yep, all good points.
Can you name some mistakes thathigh-income earners make when
planning for retirement?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
that high income earners make when planning for
retirement.
Yeah, I think I mean there's acouple big ones.
One is that they save, butthey're not saving potentially
in the most efficient place.
So you know, we now havetax-free investments, roths,
iras and other investments thatare hugely beneficial on the
(18:51):
other end.
And so when they're saving,they're working.
The question was high income, sothey're higher income, they're
working, they're saving, butthey're not thinking about the
consequences on the other end.
They're not thinking about theconsequences on the other end.
So we see the other end and wesee where people retire and they
(19:18):
have accounts that now, whenthey withdraw, they are 100%
taxable period versus havingtax-free or some split of that
some taxable, some tax-free.
So I think one of the mistakeswe see for sure is they're just
not thinking about the other end.
They're thinking about the hereand now.
That's one.
Secondly is that if they'rehigh-income earners, okay,
(19:41):
probably their tax is higher andthey just get used to paying
the tax.
So most of them do not likepaying tax, but they have the
income to pay it and they'rebusy and so they just keep
paying it.
So it's like okay, I calculate,end it up, this is what I owe
or this is what I getting back.
(20:03):
This is my quarterly, you know.
However that works out and theymove on to the next year and
they really do not have somebodysaying, okay, let's look at
planning the current year.
Where are you landing?
Where do you?
Let's put a plan in place tosee if there's anything we could
change during the current year.
(20:23):
Sounds kind of funny.
They just keep paying it, butif they have the income coming
in and go, well, I hate taxes,but you know what the income's
coming in and supporting it.
So I'm just going to keep doingmy job, I'm going to pay the
tax and I'm going to move on areyou referring mainly to people
that have like a w-2 income or?
could be both.
(20:44):
Yeah, could be both.
Yeah, could be both.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Sometimes, you know, we take, you know, owner
distributions instead of like atrue salary, and those things
are not, you know, as taxable.
So do you still like suggestthe same thing for somebody that
owns their business, ratherthan somebody that's a high
income earner on a W-2?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, I mean it's all depending on the business,
correct?
And so you know, ultimatelyit's still what ends up you know
what's taxable, not taxable.
That's what ends up to it.
So I'm referring to kind of allaspects.
You know how much you'redrawing out, you know where's
(21:27):
the bottom line land.
The other thing is, it's theplanning of, as I said, what's
at the other end.
You know it seems good today,but what's at the other end is
also important.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I have a general question.
So should your accountant bethe one helping plan or should
that be separate from youraccountant, Like should you have
a financial planner to helpplan and also work with your
accountant?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, no, if you have an accountant, that's proactive
, that's great.
So many of the accountants thatwe run across are reactive or
they already.
They're entering numbers intothe box and then they tell
someone that you know.
In this case, if we're talkingabout self-employed, okay,
(22:18):
here's your tax bill, here's thequarterlies that produced.
You owe this, also on top inApril of your tax bill, and then
pay this amount and then I'llsee you next year Versus, you
know what this is the tax andthen pay this amount and then
I'll see you next year, versus,you know what this is the tax
and the way it is.
Let's meet mid-year and talkabout where are you at in your
(22:39):
business.
You know anything changed.
Let's talk proactively.
What can we do right to reducethis current year?
So if you have that in anaccountant or CPA, that's great.
We find a challenge often thatthey don't do that.
They don't do a lot of planning.
Advisors can drive that, sothey can drive the planning part
(23:01):
and they can integrate with thetax people and that's a great
team A lot of advisors.
Depending on if they work for afirm or how their situation is,
they may not be able to talkmuch about the tax situation,
but they can help drive that andgetting to.
Okay, you know we really needto meet with your accountant or
(23:24):
your CPA and you know talk aboutstrategies that could be
utilized.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So if you had both a financial planner and a CPA,
it's a good idea to have them onmeetings.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Absolutely yeah, there should be a coordination,
because what one does the otheraffects and vice versa.
And plus it's gotten just somuch more complex that just
either one of them is not goingto know at all.
It's just not.
It's not possible, especiallyif they're really really broad
(24:01):
based, and I mean that you knowthey don't focus in on one area.
If they're really broad basedand you know they do you know
the accountant does alldifferent kinds of businesses
and they're broad based it'sreally hard to focus in on a
particular segment, and so themworking together is an important
(24:23):
piece.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
So why don't all CPA firms just have their own
in-house planners to help theirbusiness grow in that sense as
well, instead of having twoindependent businesses trying to
get together to figure out?
Well, that's what he did,someone's right.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's it's a good question.
There are firms that have thatintegrated and I I suppose
there's a lot of reasons.
Some of the firms that I knowthat don't have it.
You know, again, it takes themout of focus.
So they don't.
You know it takes them out offocus.
There are many, many advisoryfirms now that were started by
(24:59):
CPAs and so they just naturallyprogressed over to that area.
So that's a piece of it andthey just didn't want the
undertaking, you know.
So you'd ask why CPA firms?
They don't have the advisorybusiness.
The advisory business is underdifferent regulatory bodies.
(25:22):
You have different riskinvolved with that business
versus the CPA business,experience and all of that.
The other thing I've run acrossis a lot of counting tax firms.
They do not want theresponsibility, which I
appreciate, of managing,overseeing people's assets.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
They just do not want that responsibility.
So isn't wealth?
Is wealth management andfinancial planning?
Aren't they two differentthings, though, so they would
take two different people to dothose things.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
No, not necessarily.
You know you can have it's,they're exchangeable words a lot
of times.
So wealth management, you know,specifically, could be just
wealth or another just on youraccounts, where financial
planning is is stated orbelieved to be more
(26:19):
comprehensive, right Than justwealth.
So, and then they can beinterchangeable.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Gotcha.
Yeah, my thought of it waswealth management would be more
so for managing someone's moneythat they already have, and then
financial planning would bemore so, figuring out what they
have to do to give them the mostmoney in their pocket at the
end of the day.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, it sounds separate and it's a great point,
but oftentimes they'reinterchangeable and you know the
company or the advisor they dothis.
Very similar in many waysthings Now there are advisors
that do just wealth management.
You have an account, I'llmanage the account.
(27:03):
I'm going to give you advice onthat account.
Okay, they don't really look atit comprehensively.
So you have an estate problemor you want to talk about estate
planning?
That's not something I do.
So there's wealth managersthat's what they do, whereas
there's financial planners thatsay, if you have an estate issue
, I'm more than willing to kindof talk about what might be best
(27:27):
, set it up, help coordinatewith your attorney, making sure
that everything's getting inplace.
But oftentimes it can beinterchangeable.
You really have to determinewithin the firm.
You know what do they do andhow comprehensive are they.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So I guess I was thinking more terms of like tax
planning.
So would that be as a taxplanner, then separate from a
financial planner?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Again, oftentimes a financial planner can be, and is
, a tax planner as well and so,like our advisors, we do tax
planning.
And then what we do is, when weget to a point, or if we have
questions or need to bring inthe tax, the accountant, cpa,
(28:10):
then we bring them in and, youknow, have a discussion on the
situation and kind ofdirectionally, what you know,
how are we going to, how are wegoing to move, how are we going
to do this move going forward?
So oftentimes you know, aplanner can also be that really
tax side of it and do some ofthe planning there.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
So question with the way technology is going and
everything, do you see AI beingable to replace the financial
planning side and the taxstrategy side for someone that
maybe just has an accountantthat's not, you know, as
proactive as you may hope, andthen you could just use chat,
gpt or an AI to kind of planyour business and finances?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, so I would see AI as an enhancement to be able
to enhance the tools that wehave to be able to give the
advice, for sure, but I do notsee it replacing it.
For multiple reasons, like alot of industries medical and
all the other reasons that youknow it still doesn't put in
(29:16):
touch with the actual client.
There's multitude of situationswe still, with all the
technology, even though we havetoday we do not have we can't
put all the information of asituation in one tool and solve
everything.
We have to use multiple tools.
Oh no, ai is pretty close andsolve everything we have to use
multiple.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I know AI is pretty close.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, but you still it can be wrong and there's just
so nuanced that there's just alot of that.
You need to work with theclient directly.
So I'll tell you the industryhas zero fear that it's being
(29:57):
replaced If you're not utilizingit.
It's one of those that you knowyou're going to.
You're going to fall behind ifyou're not utilizing it as a
tool.
But we have much more in wealthand we have a couple tax bombs
coming that are not tax lawsthat were just signed.
(30:24):
Tax bombs coming on people inretirement that you know they
don't.
Oftentimes people don't retirenow in a lower income than when
they were working.
They are making the same amountor more and paying more tax.
So those situations need, Ibelieve, a one-on-one advice,
(30:50):
making sure that they're makinggood decisions along the way.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
How many employees do you have?
20.
And as far as like a ratio ofhow much or is it how many
clients versus how many advisorsyou need, Like what can one
advisor like take on?
Like how many clients do youhave?
I guess is the question for 20employees?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Well, I mean, the 20 is not all advisors, so there's
support team and you know we dothat's, you know we do other
things accounting work andthings like that so they're not
all specifically client related.
The answer, the answer reallyis it depends on the client, the
relationship, how complex, andthen the team that the advisor
(31:37):
has put around them.
So you know it could be, youknow, higher network clients
that take more work.
You really can work with less.
You can't work with more ofthose.
You have limited numbers.
So it really matters on thetype of client, the type of work
, what is the team around theadvisor.
(31:57):
All of that that comes intoplay on what's capacity.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
What was the hardest thing about growing your company
so far?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, I think one of the hardest things is that this
is hard.
My particular business for 30plus years.
It's hard business.
Really, only 2% of those thatstart in the industry make it,
(32:31):
so 98% fail.
So 98% fail and so it's a hardbusiness for the first four or
five, six, maybe even sevenyears.
It's really hard because peopleI've seen them come into the
industry really smart, a lot ofcredentials, education.
Bottom line is, you mentionedearlier, how do you build
(32:53):
rapport and trust and all ofthat.
You know you got to be able todo that, so A it's hard.
Secondly, is you know figuringout, just interacting and
building a team and how to builda really good team around you.
(33:16):
You know it didn't come naturalfor me and it's still a work in
progress in leading people.
So that's hard too, becauseyou're dealing with people.
So you know those are a couplethings that I just stick out.
That's hard.
As you know, we've grown thebusiness and continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
What percent of your income should you be investing?
Let's say there's a 20-year-oldout there who maybe makes 50 to
60 grand a year.
They have no desire to starttheir own business unless they
make that same amount for manyyears.
What percent should they beputting away and what do you
think the best strategy for themwould be to grow their money
over time?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So start off with a couple kind of rules of thumb.
Number one is 10%.
So if you put away 10%long-term of your income, so you
were saying 50, 60,000, five,$6,000 a year saved long-term.
That's number one.
(34:21):
If you put away 10% of yourincome over and you earn 10%
over 30 years, you will replaceyour income.
So just out of sight out ofmind, so just out of sight out
of mind.
Secondly is if someone's out andthey're working and they get a
(34:43):
match in any type of retirementplan, you certainly want to take
advantage of that.
It's free money, so you don'twant to overlook whatever free
money match that you have whichcould add to your 10%.
So that's important, to your10%.
So that's important.
And then when they start out,if they're just starting out,
what they can do is start offwith a simple kind of couple
(35:03):
index funds, stock index funds,long timeframe, long horizon,
invest the money and justcontinue to diligently invest
the money, adding the money.
As that grows, diversificationbecomes more important.
(35:29):
But initially you want to haveit in something that you know
long-term index fund is, youknow, a great fund over time and
a way to just start out andhave foundational, a good
foundation, built.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Gotcha, what do you think about crypto?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, I mean, I think crypto it's interesting, you
know it again, it can.
It's another asset class now.
Really, you know the industry,our industry is trying to just
figure out.
Uh, well, first off, you knowhow, what's going to be the
regulations on it, which I thinkstill getting figured out.
Um, and then the.
(36:05):
The big thing that I've seen,um with a lot of the folks we
work with is just understandingit, you know, and um, so if
someone feels uncomfortable andthey don't understand it, it's
probably not the best investmentfor them, but I think it can be
a good asset diversified piecethat would come out with you
know, okay, what's the risktolerance?
(36:26):
We talked about that earlier.
You know, is it something thatthey are wanting to invest some
in or a portion of it?
But it's definitely aninteresting asset class.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
All right, I think we have another podcast in a
couple of minutes, so you guyshave anything else for Eric?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
No, I think that was good.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
All right, eric, we appreciate your time today.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
Guys, it was nice chatting withyou and I just wrote a book
called the Personal CFO.
If people want to get a freecopy, I'll send them to
hilltopwealthtaxcom slashpodcast.
Hilltopwealthtaxcom slashpodcast.
You can sign up for a free copy.
You can also set up a 15-minuteintroductory call if you've got
(37:14):
questions for us or want tofind more out about us.
But the book you know talks alot about what we're talking
about and a lot more.
I think it's a good read.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And where are you based out of?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
We're based out of Indiana and we have an office in
Michigan, Florida, so we have ahandful of offices around the
country.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Awesome, all right, well, if anybody wants the book,
reach out to Eric and Eric, weappreciate your time today All
right, thank you so much, guys.
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