January 25, 2025 • 51 mins
In this bonus episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Sara Deschamps and Arjun Sahdev are in conversation with Tricia Brouk.
Tricia is a dynamic director, producer, author and speaker who specializes in empowering leaders to find their voice and tell their stories. She is also the founder of The Big Talk Academy, where she helps individuals master the art of public speaking and storytelling and over 30 years she has directed numerous award-winning films and theatrical productions.
Known for her innovative approach to communication, Tricia combines her expertise in performance with a passion for personal growth, guiding clients to captivate audiences and make a lasting impact. Her work has been featured in prestigious platforms, and she is a sought-after speaker and mentor.
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The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Allender (00:03):
While many leaders are commercially minded,
operationally efficient and goaloriented, knowing precisely what
they need to achieve and whatthey require from their teams
each day, how many of us are asconsciously purposeful about how
we show up as leaders each day?
How many of us are consciouslyaware of the lasting impact of
our daily words and actions.
(00:24):
Conscious leadership, beingfully present with our teams,
prioritizing self awareness,being mindful of the words we
choose, even in our mostchallenging and demanding
circumstances, is a keydifferentiator between those who
may have good intentions andthose who are fully mindful of
their impact on those aroundthem, as we often talk about, on
the evolving leader, anautomating world requires
(00:46):
leadership that is more human,not less. As leaders, the world
needs us to prioritize our owninner work, to pursue healing,
where we need to to consciouslyevolve in a rapidly changing and
more uncertain reality ouractions and words have profound,
far reaching power to affectchange, both positively or
negatively. It has never beenmore important to be true to our
(01:09):
values and purpose. Each of ushas the opportunity to create
lasting legacies. Aspsychologist William James said,
the greatest use of a life is tospend it on something that will
outlast it. Let's tune in to amotivating conversation on The
Evolving Leader.
Sara Deschamps (01:44):
Welcome everyone to the evolving leader. My name
is Sara, and I'm here with Arjuntoday. We're taking over for
Jean and Scott, and we have anincredible guest for you today.
But first, let's kick off with abit of a check in Arjun, how are
you feeling today?
Arjun Sahdev (01:58):
Thank you so much, Sara. I am feeling really good
today. I'm super energized. I'mvery excited about what the rest
of the year has in store.
There's so so much potentialahead, I feel, but there's also
this feeling of of excitement,because I'm back in in the
evolving leader seat. So I'mreally excited to be sharing the
next hour with you and ourguest, and I'm really thrilled
(02:21):
about the conversation we'regoing to have today. I truly
believe that our voices, whenused with purpose, can make a
real impact in the world. Soyeah, really looking forward to
diving into how we can harnessall that power. How are you
feeling Sara?
Sara Deschamps (02:39):
Oh, plus one to everything you've just said. And
I think I'd also add I'm feelingvery curious, and I feel like
there's a sense of momentum andexcitement with the guests that
we're about to speak to. I justcan't wait to speak to her about
her book and everything thatshe's working on. So it's just
really delightful to be here.
Really excited to be co hostingwith you as well, Arjun, so I'm
(03:00):
thinking maybe we just diveright in, and I'd love to
introduce our guest. So today wehave Tricia Brouk on The
Evolving Leader. Tricia is adynamic director, producer and
speaker who specializes inempowering leaders to find their
voice and tell their storieswith over 30 years of experience
(03:20):
in the industry, she hasdirected numerous award winning
films and theatricalproductions. Tricia is also the
founder of the big talk Academy,where she helps individuals
master the art of publicspeaking and storytelling. She's
known for her innovativeapproach to communication, and
Tricia combines her expertise inperformance with a passion for
(03:43):
personal growth, guiding clientsto captivate audiences and make
a lasting impact. Her work hasbeen featured in prestigious
platforms, and she is a soughtafter speaker and mentor.
Through her creative vision andcommitment to authenticity,
Tricia inspires others toembrace their unique narratives
(04:04):
and share them confidently withthe world. When I read her book,
I pulled out a passagejournalist Nydia Han. She penned
her forward, and she describesTricia as a master storyteller
and a genius at helping othersidentify and bring to light
their own stories. Tricia,welcome to The Evolving Leader.
(04:26):
How are you feeling, and how didthat intro make you feel?
Tricia Brouk (04:31):
Oh, my goodness, Sara and Arjun, I'm so honored
to be here, and I love that youask one another how you're
feeling, and you really giveeach other the space to share
that truth. When somebody says,How are you or how are you
feeling, we're so quick to say,Fine. When we give ourselves
(04:51):
permission to really share thetruth of how we're feeling,
that's how we can connect on amuch deeper level. And to answer
your question, I am feelinghonored, I'm feeling excited,
I'm feeling privileged, and I'mfeeling blessed to be here and
to have this conversation withyou both today.
Sara Deschamps (05:11):
That's amazing.
I'd love us to jump right inTricia. I'd love for you to take
us back. Can you tell us alittle bit about your origin
story? So what was your journeyin finding your own voice?
Tricia Brouk (05:22):
I am from Arnold, Missouri, which was a small town
20 miles south of St Louis, andI grew up in a small town farm.
We had some cows and some cornfields, and we sold strawberries
on the side of the road, and Isaw my sister dance when I was
(05:44):
seven. She was taking lessons atthe local dance studio, and she
was dancing and tap dancing witha pink poodle costume. And I
remember thinking, I want to beon stage. I didn't really know
what that meant, and I certainlydidn't want to be dancing in a
poodle costume, but I becamecompletely obsessed with
(06:05):
classical ballet and PBS, andstarted dreaming of becoming a
classical ballet dancer andmoving to New York City to dance
with Baryshnikov. So I told mymother, I'm going to dance
class, and she enrolled me, andI started the process of
fulfilling my dream, and I wasone of those dancers who would
(06:27):
come home from school sit withmy feet underneath the door
frame to help my arches becomeeven more beautiful. I would
study in the full splits so thatI could be as flexible as
possible. And I would go todance class as often as I could,
cut to wanting to graduate fromhigh school and move directly to
(06:48):
New York City, and my parents,luckily had the foresight to
make me go to college. So I wentto university, and I got a
degree in dance, and it was anaccelerated three year, two
summer programs. So I moved toNew York City at the age of 20
to pursue this career,and started waiting tables. Then
I started my own company, then Istarted touring the world with
(07:13):
all of these incrediblechoreographers and dance
companies. And 13 years to theday, I moved to New York City.
I danced with bursnikov When Iwas working with the Lucinda
childs Dance Company, and alsoknew that I had
(07:35):
a voice that wasn't completelyfulfilled because I was dancing
and I was definitely expressingmyself through physicality.
However, I wasn't using myactual voice, and so I decided I
would retire, and I did one lastdance performance. It was a one
(07:55):
woman show where I brought allof the solos that I had ever
danced from other choreographersand then choreographed several
on my own, and I produced thisone woman show, one woman dance
show, and I created it very muchlike the the monks create the
mandalas, the Buddhist monkscreate the sand mandalas. And
they take months and months andmonths to create these gorgeous
(08:19):
mandalas with different colorsof sand, and when they're
complete, they wipe it away,they wash it away. And that's
exactly what I did with my finaldance performance. And then
moved into choreography anddirecting, working in film,
television and theater,continued to do that and to
express myself in that way, onthe other side of the table, on
(08:43):
the other side of the camera.
And then all of a sudden,sudden, one of my friends said,
I want you to direct my TEDtalk. And I approached it just
like a one woman show,and there was choreography and
blocking and intention andscript analysis, and she planted
the seed that thought leadersand professionals would really
benefit from me helping thembecome effective communicators.
(09:06):
And what I realized in thatmoment was the legacy that I was
leaving was limited to thenumber of people in the theater
and the length of time I was onstage. So if I could create
documentaries and supportspeakers and thought leaders,
that legacy would have a rippleeffect that would go way beyond
(09:29):
me being a performer and beingon stage. And here I am in New
York City, and for those of youwho are listening, you may be
hearing some construction nextdoor, because that's how it goes
in New York City. And I look outat the Alvin Ailey Dance
Theater, literally, this iswhere I live, and I get to see
(09:50):
the dancers realizing theirdream. And that's also the
legacy, if energetically, I canshow up every day in this room.
And support thought leaders andenergetically cheer on the
dancers who are living out theirdreams, then my life is
complete.
Sara Deschamps (10:09):
Wow. Tricia, that is full circle. And
speaking of storytelling, what abeautiful story. You mentioned
TEDx. I was wondering if youcould tell us a bit more about
your work with TEDx and maybeyour own speaker series. I
believe it's called speakers whodare so you seem to have a
passion for creating spaces andfor creating platforms where
(10:29):
other people can tell their ownstories. Can you tell us a
little bit more about thatmission?
Tricia Brouk (10:34):
Absolutely, Sara, when I made the decision to
start supporting thought leadersin using their voice for impact.
All of a sudden, as one, as ithappens, when one makes a
decision and the universeconnects to you, it all becomes
part of receivership. So all ofa sudden, I had all these
speakers and no place to putthem. Well, as a theater
(10:56):
producer, I produce shows.
What's the best show forspeakers? TEDx, so I became the
executive producer of TEDxLincoln Square, and I produced
that show for two years, and Iabsolutely loved putting those
speakers on my stage. And then Iwanted more creative control, so
I started producing my own eventcalled speakers who dare. And in
March of 2020,we were having an event in New
(11:19):
York City that obviously did nothappen, and I was able to
actually innovate and create aplatform for those speakers. As
a filmmaker, I had them allshoot themselves, filming their
talks. I got all of the footage,and I edited together all of
their talks, and I created afilm of speakers who dare.
(11:42):
And what that taught me wasanything is possible, and when
you're faced with a challenge,you have an opportunity to
innovate or tostagnate. And I decided to
innovate, and that is why Icreated TEDx Lincoln Square and
speakers who dare and now withthis platform, all of a sudden,
Oxford talks, speak. Speak upwomen. They know that I can
(12:08):
produce incredible speakers fortheir events. So what's happened
since then? And I'm waiting toput on my next big event, but
what's happened since then isI've become the funnel, the go
to for highly sought afterspeakers. And that is something
that I'm super proud of.
Arjun Sahdev (12:28):
That's such a such a fascinating again, once again,
such a fascinating story aboutyour, your TEDx experience. For
a second, I just want to switchlanes into your your fantastic
book, the influential voice. Andas I mentioned earlier, I think,
I think the power of our voicesis just so important and
(12:49):
compelling in this day and age,but, but one of the things you
mentioned in your book is theimportance of dignified
language. But what doesdignified language mean to you,
Tricia, and how can it helpshape the way we lead and the
way we communicate, the way weshow up in the world?
Tricia Brouk (13:06):
Arjun, this is such a wonderful question, and
something that I care deeplyabout. I truly believe all
voices matter, and that meansrespecting the opinions of
others that I don't necessarilyalign with and when I say
dignified language, it meansbeing able to speak
(13:29):
in a way that is respectful ofeveryone's way of being thought
process and differing opinions.
And it is not gossip. It is notname calling. It is not making
fun of it's a conscious choiceas an influential voice to
recognize that every singlething you say has the
(13:51):
possibility of creating love,hate, good or evil, and if we
fully step into being aninfluential voice and making a
commitment to speaking withdignified language, that means
that we're aligning with goodand we're aligning with love.
(14:11):
And there's a lot happening inthe United States, where I live
right now when it comes to nothaving dignified speech and and
I often do an analysis ofcampaign
performances and people who runfor office, because there's a
(14:33):
lot of people who may not agreewith you, or you may not agree
with them, but they'redefinitely speaking With
dignified language, and that'swhat I mean, respect,
avoiding gossip, avoiding hatespeech
at all costs, because it's ourresponsibility as influential
voices to recognize the impactof what we say and when we
(14:59):
really fully.
Understand that and we own thatresponsibility, then we can have
the kind of impact we're lookingto have in the world for good.
Sara Deschamps (15:11):
You mentioned love, you mentioned hate, this
idea of the human experience,and you touch upon this a bit in
your book, as well, the humanexperience amidst social media,
amidst the noise and amidstemerging technologies, and Arjun
and I talk about this quite abit with our team, and I'd love
to ask you, in the world thatwe're living in today, what does
(15:32):
it mean to you to be here in orto be more human?
Tricia Brouk (15:36):
It means understanding that you have a
consciousness and a soul that isdirectly connected to how you
communicate. I haveconversations about artificial
intelligence all the time, andhere at the big talk, we make a
decision to not use AI tocommunicate with our community,
(15:58):
meaning, I write all of myemails. They are coming from my
soul. They're coming from myheart. I write my books, and
that's a that's a choice that wemake. Now I'm not saying that AI
is bad. I'm saying that thedifference between being human
and using artificialintelligence is the connection
to the soul and theconsciousness. I'm an artist.
(16:20):
I'm a creator, this is how Ishow up in the world, so I can
only tap into what I'm beinggiven as an artist. And that
doesn't mean going into chat GPTto create a new play. It means
being available for the muse,for source to tell me how to be
(16:44):
the vehicle to create content.
And that's the difference for mewhen it comes to being human and
what's going on in a silo ofsocial media or artificial
intelligence, creativity.
Sara Deschamps (16:59):
I'd like to stay on that idea of consciousness
for just another moment, and I'dlove to highlight a passage in
your book that really resonatedwith me. I read it a couple of
times over and over, where youaddressed consciousness and your
factual story versus the falsestory that historically you
might tell yourself about yourjourney. Can you tell us a bit
(17:20):
more about this, and then theimpact that this could
potentially have on someonefactual versus false.
Tricia Brouk (17:27):
For many years, I would say I accidentally became
a choreographer. I accidentallybecame a director. I
accidentally wrote a book, andwhat I realized was that I was
creating this this false senseof reality for myself. I became
a choreographer because I was atrained dancer for most of my
(17:52):
life. I became a directorbecause I understand a good
director hires well and they'reorganized. I understand that I
became a writer because I satdown and I did the work. So what
happens is I created thisconfidence, competence loop,
where I am competent, and thatgave me the confidence to then
(18:16):
own. I didn't accidentallybecome any of this. I worked
really hard. I understand theart and the craft of what it
means to be a choreographer anda director and an author, and
that was the false story I wastelling myself. So as soon as I
fully embodied, no I called allof this in and I also did the
work in order to show up fullyand to understand my craft and
(18:41):
to stay curious and to learnmore about my craft in order to
improve. That was me opening upto what was available to me and
really owning my consciousness.
I have had an incredible andhave an incredible life, and
that is because I have stayedcurious. I understand that the
(19:06):
world is bigger than me, andthat this one moment that I have
while I'm in human form on theplanet is all I get. And I want
to show up as fully as possible,and going back to legacy and
leave that lasting legacy. SoI'm deeply connected to what my
consciousness is meant to do,and I'm available to receive
(19:28):
that. And there's nothing aboutAI that is is brought into this
conversation aboutconsciousness. So thank you for
asking that follow up question,Sara.
Sara Deschamps (19:42):
Staying on that idea of factual versus false
stories and a lot of your book,there are so many parallels that
I drew to the work that that wedo with leaders and with
innovators and with innovationincubators globally, around
questioning, around assumptionbusting around questioning your
(20:02):
own stories and your ownperspectives, and also seeking
different points of view. Ithink you mentioned that earlier
as well. Can you speak to someof the parallels that you see in
your work that could directlyimpact leaders today?
Tricia Brouk (20:15):
Well, I think, as an artist, we hear no a lot
there. The door is always beingclosed on us as an artist, as a
dancer, as a producer, as awriter. How many times I've
submitted pilots to Netflix andto Hulu, and it's, it's a it's a
(20:37):
matter of not allowing that tobe a no and as an innovator, as
a creator, understanding thatwhat's meant for you is meant
for you, and to keep opening thedoors. And if you can open the
door, build your own door sothat it stays open. And that's,
I think, the parallels that wecan draw here. And the big talk
(20:59):
is a global community as well.
And I'm always really excitedwhen we bring in speakers from
all over the world who have adifferent way of being, they
have a different culture, theyspeak a different language, and
so knowing that the collectivecommon desire is to have an
impact by using your voice thatis something that just excites
(21:25):
me beyond what's possible. So Ithink the being curious,
spending time with people whoknow more than you, spending
time with people who aredifferent from you, and
understanding that all voicesmatter.
Arjun Sahdev (21:45):
You know, Tricia, just just a reflection I think I
I got this definitely throughyour broader work, but much more
poignantly, as I'm sitting herelistening to you speak is just
how I can feel your passion inwanting to help people find
(22:08):
their influential voice, butalso the power with which that
can you know that can be usedwithin the world, so For someone
or for listeners that feeluncertain about the intention of
their voice? Perhaps the themessage that they're trying to
(22:29):
get across, or even you knowtheir their direction? What?
What steps would you recommendthey take to discover and refine
their their their voice to makeit more influential, more
authentic.
Tricia Brouk (22:44):
Thank you for asking that question. Arjun, and
I think the first thing is, hopon over to the influential
voice. Grab a book. There's anaudio book as well.
Then I think it really meansgoing inside and determining
what are your values, what isyour purpose and what is your
(23:05):
mission. When you align withyour values and your purpose and
your mission, then there's noway you can stay silent any
longer. And I am certain thateveryone who is listening to
this and watching this, wouldnever want to silence anyone
else. They would never judgeanyone else for using their
(23:28):
voice so knowing that youlistener would not do that to
another person.
Why would you violate your ownprinciples by staying silent and
by judging yourself. So Iencourage and I inspire you to
think about that one person inthe world. There's over 8
(23:52):
billion people on the planet,that one person in the world who
needs to hear from you, and ifyou stay silent, that is
selfish, and I know that youlistener are not selfish.
Arjun Sahdev (24:07):
What a wonderful message, and it just brings me,
I guess, onto the next point,really, because part of that
silence is also driven androoted in ego. So it takes me to
this, to this kind of pointaround detachment, which you
(24:27):
speak about as a key principlein leadership. I wonder if you
could explain to us howdetaching from your ego, from
outcomes, from perceptions thatyou're holding or have
previously held, can really helpleaders become more adaptable,
more resilient and and moreauthentic in today's fast paced
(24:48):
world.
Tricia Brouk (24:49):
I think of ego nature being smart and Buddha
nature being wise and and I amcurrently working on my third
book, which is about the wisdomof Buddha nature and successful
leadership. And it's not a it'snot a book on spirituality or
(25:10):
religion. It is really a book onhow to incorporate the
principles and the philosophiesof this 1000 year old tradition,
which includes detachment,oneness and impermanence, in
order to create better leaders.
And when it comes to detachment,as leaders, we want our teams to
(25:34):
be a certain way. We want tohave a certain profit margin. We
want things to go as quickly aspossible. That is attachment.
And attachment creates friction.
It creates suffering, and itcreates the inability to be
(25:59):
efficient. If you think aboutdetaching from the outcome of a
launch, detaching from theoutcome of whether or not your
team is going to be as efficientor make mistakes or not make
mistakes, when you detach fromthose outcomes, it frees you as
a leader to keep a forwardmomentum that is much swifter
(26:21):
now I am married, and I have afur baby. Joe is my husband. Eva
Moon is my fur baby, and I amvery attached to both of them.
So this is a practice. This isnot something that is just easy.
As a leader, when you practicedetachment and oneness and
(26:42):
impermanence, you actually canlead at a much higher level, and
you can model that kind ofleadership for your team and
your community and all of theother leaders on the planet. And
so I really am excited to beable to introduce these ideas to
up and coming leaders and to theseasoned leaders who may think
(27:08):
just because they're smart,they've got it all figured out,
but I'm introducing this conceptof wisdom.
Arjun Sahdev (27:17):
Well, Tricia, you mentioned something that just
made my my ears prick up,because I've seen a fantastic
video that you did recently atan Oxford talk where you
introduced this concept of ofBuddha nature in leadership. How
can embracing Buddha Naturetransform a leader's approach,
(27:40):
but but also just beingpractical for a second. What's
one or two things that leadersthat are listening can actually
do to help them connect withBuddha with their Buddha nature?
Tricia Brouk (27:52):
Well, I think the first thing is to understand the
difference between ego natureand Buddha nature. And ego
nature is you being smart andmaking decisions that you think
are in alignment with what'sbest as a leader. However, when
you when you connect with yourBuddha Nature, which is the
wisdom of making decisions, andyou cultivate oneness,
(28:13):
detachment, impermanence, thosesorts of philosophies. How that
helps you is you have a biggerpicture, you understand that
every decision you make has aripple effect, because of
oneness, because we are allconnected. Here's a very simple
example. Let's say one of youremployees, one of your
(28:36):
consultants, comes in, and asthe leader, they've they've done
something that's upset you, andas the leader, you chew them
out.
And it's not your best day, it'snot your best behavior. But you
didn't think first, and you justacted. You reacted instead of
responded well, because ofoneness and the understanding of
(29:00):
that philosophy, that personmight go home and chew out their
kid, and that kid might feelreally badly about themselves,
and that spiral happens notknowing that mom or dad had a
bad day at work. So when wethink about oneness, and we
think about how every action,every behavior that we take, can
(29:25):
affect people way beyond what wecan even see that makes us a
better leader, because we comeback to Sara, we become more
conscious, and that's why I'mexcited to talk about the
difference between ego natureand Buddha nature, and how
practicing these philosophies ofgetting still, giving us a
(29:50):
moment to pause so that we canrespond instead of react.
Understanding the differencebetween being smart and being
wise, understanding. Saying thatnothing is going to last. So
showing up like today is yourlast day that makes you a better
(30:10):
leader.
Sara Deschamps (30:16):
I'd love to jump in and go back to something that
you mentioned about using yourvoice and aligning it with your
your values, your mission. AndI'd like to bring up the human
experience of fear, I think, tomoments in my past where there
has been a certain amount offear around aligning my voice
with my values, as I'm sure manycan relate to. And I'm wondering
(30:39):
if I believe at one point youmentioned, I believe it was in
your book becoming intimate withyour fear. I'd love it if you
could talk a little bit moreabout that.
Tricia Brouk (30:49):
Fear is a human response, and it is something
that can coexist with deliveringa talk, with being a leader and
so having an intimaterelationship with your personal
fear is only going to help you,and what I mean by that is it's
(31:09):
never going to go away, if youcare. I have been on 1000s of
stages, and I still get nerves.
I still have butterflies, Istill think, who am I to write a
third book about Buddha nature,and that fear is what fuels me.
I am the person I am meant forthis. So when that fear pops
(31:31):
into your head and it will, thisis what I do, huh, that's funny,
and then I let it go. So anytimea story happens, anytime fear
comes in, because I don't havetime for fear, you don't have
time for fear. We have a verylimited amount of time on this
(31:53):
planet. And you have youlistener and Sara and Arjun, you
have so much incredible work todo in the world and things to
contribute to humanity. Soallowing fear to usurp your
energy for a nanosecond is is ahard No. So anytime that fear
(32:14):
pops in as a human being, justsimply, that's funny, and then
let it go.
Sara Deschamps (32:25):
I love that. It goes back to that idea of
detachment.
Tricia Brouk (32:28):
It does.
Arjun Sahdev (32:29):
How does that parallel? Just, just for, for,
for my own interest, really? Howdoes that parallel, do you
think, with the experience ofuncertainty in your experience.
So there is so much that we arefrom a everything from kind of
(32:49):
environmentally, politically,socially, geographically,
there's so much uncertaintythat's brewing in the world. How
does the experience, or can welearn from dealing with the
experience of fear in that waythat can help us also embrace
uncertainty?
Tricia Brouk (33:08):
This is a very deep question and a conversation
that I hope everyone continuesto have. There is a lot of
uncertainty in the world rightnow, and there's a lot of pain
in the world right now. There'sa lot of pain, there's a lot of
sadness, and I have theprivilege of working with
(33:32):
thought leaders who speak aboutclimate, who speak about
trafficking, who speak about thehard stuff. So because I am so
privileged and honored to beable to spend time with people
all the time who are talkingabout the hard stuff, I also get
to ask them, How do you get upevery morning knowing the truth
(33:56):
about what it is you're talkingabout? And they always say, I
still have hope, and that's whatI hold on to during these
uncertain times. I still havehope that the human spirit will
gravitate towards love and peaceand that collectively, if we
(34:22):
make that conscious choice tograb it, gravitate towards love
and peace, we can win good willwin over evil.
Arjun Sahdev (34:33):
Thank you so much for that. Tricia, that's a
wonderful message once again. Soone of the things that strikes
me is just how how broadly worksacross the creative fields, be
it a director, writer, a coach,a producer. I'm just wondering
how you balance the creativedemands of storytelling with the
(34:55):
more structured responsibilitiesof leadership being a leader
yourself.
Tricia Brouk (35:02):
It really is about prioritizing and organizing and
making self care a nonnegotiable. I know at the level
that I want to play. I want toplay at a high level. I play at
elevation, and that means makingsure that I'm hydrated and
getting enough sleep and that Ipractice getting still and
(35:24):
exercising and meditating andalso giving myself structured
time to be creative andstructured time to reflect on
what kind of a leader was Itoday, and how can I be a better
leader tomorrow?
Sara Deschamps (35:40):
From all of this work and this experience in the
arts and in the media fields,Tricia, what do you feel leaders
can learn from artists andactors?
Tricia Brouk (35:52):
We are the most disciplined creatures, and we
understand failure. We have ahigh risk tolerance. We don't
take no for an answer, and weare filled with grit. That is
why I truly believe I understandmy role as a leader. It's
(36:16):
because of my experience as adancer, having no multiple times
a day at auditions,understanding that the plies put
me in a state of readiness. Asleaders, we need to be in a
state of readiness always, andthat means doing the plies,
doing the bicep curls. Being anathlete is how you can be an
(36:39):
incredible leader.
Arjun Sahdev (36:41):
Tricia, you mentioned self care a little
earlier and and just nowmentioning your, your background
of being a dancer, and theinfluence it had. And, you know,
the the being an athlete, whatit takes to be an athlete, self
care is at the center of that,I'm I'm sure that there are, and
(37:04):
there are a number of practicaltactics and techniques that
you've honed and refined overthe years, just wondering how
those practices, how thosetechniques, have actually
impacted your ability to show upfor others, and I wonder whether
you can perhaps share a fewanecdotes or some stories about
(37:26):
about how those things arepaying dividends in your life.
Tricia Brouk (37:29):
Well, according to my aura ring, my cardiovascular
health is seven years below myage, so that's one of the ways
it's paying off. The other thingthat I can say is my ability to
be extremely present witheveryone that I come in contact
with, and that's something thatI also cultivate and am very
(37:55):
conscious of as an influentialvoice. You are an influential
voice. When you are at thebarista, you are an influential
voice. When you are across thecounter at the grocery store and
the woman or the man or theyoung person who is ringing you
up, every interaction that youhave with another human being,
you have an opportunity to makethem feel seen and to make them
(38:19):
feel better because of yourinteraction with them, which
means I need to make sure thatmy tank is full before I go out
into the world, so that I can beas present as possible with
every single person I interactwith, and being conscious to
(38:39):
say, You know what? Today, I'mtired, I'm going to be super
mindful of how quick I am ormight be to react. So I'm going
to be super mindful today andgive myself a little bit of
grace because I'm tired. Andtonight, I'm going to go to bed
a little bit early so thattomorrow I can be more fully
(39:00):
present. So it's about beingaware. It's about understanding
the impact of your interactionswith people and making a
decision about what yourmission, purpose and values are.
Because being able to be aspresent with everyone I come in
contact with as possible, thatis part of my values.
Sara Deschamps (39:20):
And Tricia, when it comes to your core needs or
your your physical needs, if youare feeling that there's a day
that perhaps you're not feelingat your most optimal, is that
something that you try and sharewith others, speaking of
communication, so that they knowthat they can meet you where
you're at.
Tricia Brouk (39:37):
That's a really good question. I've never been
asked that before. I tend to notshare that, because that is a
story that could potentiallyinform how they see me, and it's
my job as an influential voiceto show up as fully as possible.
So let's say I'm under theweather. Now, I'm not going to
(40:01):
cancel a podcast recording,necessarily, but I'm going to
give myself 30 minutes prior tosit quietly, to hydrate and to
give myself a little extraenergy prior knowing that I
might be a little tired or underthe weather,
Arjun Sahdev (40:17):
Just following on from this as well as a leader,
how do you empower others thatyou lead to identify where they
can use their energy, theircapacity, and therefore their
voice, in the most powerful way,given how they're feeling, their
(40:37):
this, their sense of self care.
Tricia Brouk (40:40):
Part of what we do on our team is we we talk about
the values and the mission andthe purpose, and I am effusive
when it comes to highlighting myteam's successes and what
they're good at. So we alwayslead with positive and we also
(41:01):
sunshine and highlight mistakesas learnings and not mistakes,
learnings and lessons. And ifI'm noticing that the team is,
let's say, overworked, we've gota lot of initiatives happening
at once. It's my job to makethem feel seen, to make them
(41:21):
feel empowered and to remindthem why we're doing what we're
doing. And I have a remote team,and most of them have been with
me for years, and I know thatthat is very unique, and I do
not take it for granted, andthat is really because we have a
(41:42):
culture that is all about loveand respect and dignity, and we
are all aligned with themission, which is to be the most
transformational and lovingspeaker platform in the world.
So aligning yourself to themission, whatever that mission
is for you, will lift you upwhen you are tired, anxious,
(42:06):
experiencing fear, experiencinguncertainty, and that is really
what we hold as our North Star.
Sara Deschamps (42:15):
If the conversations we've been having
on the evolving leader havehelped you in any way, please
head over to Apple podcasts andleave us a rating and review.
Thank you for listening. Nowlet's get back to the
conversation.
Tricia, I feel you're in thisincredible position where you
get to hear so many people'sstories and so many people's
(42:36):
influential voices, and I'mwondering if you cast your gaze
back at the history of thepeople that you've heard, where
do you see best practices, who'sreally owning and using their
voice for good? Or maybe, whatindustries are you seeing this
the most in, and where are youseeing that global reach? And
(42:57):
then maybe on the other side,where do you think some of the
biggest challenges lay and whatchallenges are leaders facing
today in really digging deep andfinding their voice?
Tricia Brouk (43:08):
Well, I mean, last night, Barack Obama was in
Wisconsin, and this is notpolitical. I'm simply sharing
that his influential voice wasall about inspiring people to
vote. This is the kind of impactone can have by using their
voice. You can create policychange. You can inspire a
(43:32):
movement. Dr Andrew Benedict,who is the founder of anergia,
he is creating the scientificprocess where we could literally
become net negative, not netzero. And he is speaking all
over the place about this. Sobeing able to support Catherine
(43:56):
Garcia, who ran for mayor in NewYork City, and she's now working
under Kathy Hochul, these arethe kinds of people who when
they understand that it's biggerthan them and they're public
servants.
They're public servants, they'renot celebrities. So
understanding that your voicecan create a movement. It can
(44:19):
create policy change. It cancreate awareness around
something that will connect youwith another human being, and I
think that is the importance ofusing your voice, so you don't
have to be a celebrity and youdon't have to be a politician to
have this kind of impact as aninfluential voice. You can be a
teacher in front of a classroomof second graders, you can be a
(44:43):
parent, being an influentialvoice to your kids, and that's
why I speak so passionatelyabout this. It's because the
power of your voice, the powerof sharing your story. I can
literally change and even savesomeone's life,
Arjun Sahdev (45:05):
Just hanging on to that last that last bit for a
second the power of sharing yourstory. I'm sure many, many of
the listeners know or have heardof Brene Brown and and her, her
thoughts and reflections onvulnerability and just how
(45:26):
critical I think this is whensharing your authentic truth,
your story from yourperspective. Tricia, how can
leaders and speakers embracevulnerability in a way that
really strengthens their voiceand strengthens the message that
they're trying to send out.
Tricia Brouk (45:44):
Being vulnerable does not mean sharing your story
before you've healed from it,and that's really important as a
leader. If you are sharing yourstory in service of an audience,
it means you're sharingvulnerably from the scar, not
the wound, in service of theaudience, having an experience.
(46:07):
And the other part of beingvulnerable as a leader means you
can have emotion withoutbecoming emotional. These are
two distinctive differences whenit comes to the use and the
embodiment of vulnerability, andI'll say it again. Speak from
the scar, not the wound. Makesure you're healed from anything
(46:28):
that you're sharing that isvulnerable. And you can have
emotion as a leader withoutbecoming emotional. If you
become emotional as a leader,you are robbing the audience of
having an emotional experience.
Arjun Sahdev (46:42):
Just on on that last point, it made me wonder,
What are the dangers of sharingyour story without healing? So
speaking from the wound first.
Tricia Brouk (46:53):
Well, you could potentially re traumatize
yourself, and you also requirethe audience to take care of
you, and that is not that is nottheir job. You as a leader or as
a speaker on a big stage, youare there to speak to and to
lead your audience. And if youare not speaking from a place of
healed experience, then you arerequiring the audience to take
(47:18):
care of you, and that is not theposition that you want to put
them in.
Sara Deschamps (47:24):
Tricia. You have given us so much incredible
goodness today. But I would liketo ask you, from everything that
you've shared, if our audience,if our leaders, could do one
thing today, one small step, onefirst step in finding their
voice and really harnessing thepower of storytelling. What
(47:45):
would that one thing be?
Tricia Brouk (47:47):
It would be to ask yourself what you would say and
how you would say it if youdidn't have tomorrow.
Arjun Sahdev (47:57):
What a powerful question that's that's, uh,
that's gonna have me thinkingfor the rest of the day. Before,
before we close Tricia, I I wantto touch on a point around
legacy, because one of the bigthemes in your book that stood
(48:20):
out to me was about was thiskind of idea of leaving a
lasting legacy. So I couldn'tleave the conversation without
asking you how you define legacyand what advice you have for
leaders who are really lookingto build a legacy through their
work, those that define ormeasure their legacy through the
(48:42):
work that they're doing.
Tricia Brouk (48:44):
I think if you understand that every book you
write, every conversation youhave, every training that you
deliver, that's an opportunityfor you to leave a legacy,
because everyone who has thattraining reads that book is
going to share it with others.
So the ripple effect of thepeople that you touch and impact
is ultimately your legacy. Soevery time I show up for a
(49:07):
podcast or have a conversationwith someone or share a training
with someone or a master classor I teach, I understand deeply
that is my lasting legacy, andso I show up 150% every single
time, because again, this goesback to understanding the laws
of impermanence. Tomorrow mightnot come. So I have today to
(49:31):
build on the legacy that I amliving. So as a leader, if you
are listening to this and youwant to lead your legacy start
right now if you haven't,because you can create a legacy
very rapidly by understandingevery time you interact with
another human being, you leaveyour legacy. And that
fingerprint and that rippleeffect goes on and on and on way
(49:53):
beyond after you're here andafter you're gone.
Sara Deschamps (50:00):
Tricia, before we close, are there any final
thoughts that you'd like tooffer our listeners?
Tricia Brouk (50:05):
I would just like to remind you that your voice
matters. There is only one youand when you when you speak and
share your powerful voice withthe world, you truly can change
and even save a life.
Arjun Sahdev (50:20):
Tricia, thank you so much for coming on the
evolving leader today. This wassuch an incredible conversation.
The time has flown by. I can'tbelieve we've been we've been
talking for nearly an hour, butthere's so much to take away
from your stories, from youradvice, from your authenticity,
and just such a big lessonaround how our voices can ripple
(50:45):
across people's across theworld, people's minds, and the
actions that they then take fromthat so thank you for sharing
this important message today.
Tricia Brouk (50:56):
Arjun and Sara, thank you so much for having me.
You've been incredible hosts,and I am feeling so grateful.
While many leaders are commercially minded,
operationally efficient and goaloriented, knowing precisely what
they need to achieve and whatthey require from their teams
each day, how many of us are asconsciously purposeful about how
we show up as leaders each day?
How many of us are consciouslyaware of the lasting impact of
our daily words and actions.
(00:24):
Conscious leadership, beingfully present with our teams,
prioritizing self awareness,being mindful of the words we
choose, even in our mostchallenging and demanding
circumstances, is a keydifferentiator between those who
may have good intentions andthose who are fully mindful of
their impact on those aroundthem, as we often talk about, on
the evolving leader, anautomating world requires
(00:46):
leadership that is more human,not less. As leaders, the world
needs us to prioritize our owninner work, to pursue healing,
where we need to to consciouslyevolve in a rapidly changing and
more uncertain reality ouractions and words have profound,
far reaching power to affectchange, both positively or
negatively. It has never beenmore important to be true to our
(01:09):
values and purpose. Each of ushas the opportunity to create
lasting legacies. Aspsychologist William James said,
the greatest use of a life is tospend it on something that will
outlast it. Let's tune in to amotivating conversation on The
Evolving Leader.
Sara Deschamps (01:44):
Welcome everyone to the evolving leader. My name
is Sara, and I'm here with Arjuntoday. We're taking over for
Jean and Scott, and we have anincredible guest for you today.
But first, let's kick off with abit of a check in Arjun, how are
you feeling today?
Arjun Sahdev (01:58):
Thank you so much, Sara. I am feeling really good
today. I'm super energized. I'mvery excited about what the rest
of the year has in store.
There's so so much potentialahead, I feel, but there's also
this feeling of of excitement,because I'm back in in the
evolving leader seat. So I'mreally excited to be sharing the
next hour with you and ourguest, and I'm really thrilled
(02:21):
about the conversation we'regoing to have today. I truly
believe that our voices, whenused with purpose, can make a
real impact in the world. Soyeah, really looking forward to
diving into how we can harnessall that power. How are you
feeling Sara?
Sara Deschamps (02:39):
Oh, plus one to everything you've just said. And
I think I'd also add I'm feelingvery curious, and I feel like
there's a sense of momentum andexcitement with the guests that
we're about to speak to. I justcan't wait to speak to her about
her book and everything thatshe's working on. So it's just
really delightful to be here.
Really excited to be co hostingwith you as well, Arjun, so I'm
(03:00):
thinking maybe we just diveright in, and I'd love to
introduce our guest. So today wehave Tricia Brouk on The
Evolving Leader. Tricia is adynamic director, producer and
speaker who specializes inempowering leaders to find their
voice and tell their storieswith over 30 years of experience
(03:20):
in the industry, she hasdirected numerous award winning
films and theatricalproductions. Tricia is also the
founder of the big talk Academy,where she helps individuals
master the art of publicspeaking and storytelling. She's
known for her innovativeapproach to communication, and
Tricia combines her expertise inperformance with a passion for
(03:43):
personal growth, guiding clientsto captivate audiences and make
a lasting impact. Her work hasbeen featured in prestigious
platforms, and she is a soughtafter speaker and mentor.
Through her creative vision andcommitment to authenticity,
Tricia inspires others toembrace their unique narratives
(04:04):
and share them confidently withthe world. When I read her book,
I pulled out a passagejournalist Nydia Han. She penned
her forward, and she describesTricia as a master storyteller
and a genius at helping othersidentify and bring to light
their own stories. Tricia,welcome to The Evolving Leader.
(04:26):
How are you feeling, and how didthat intro make you feel?
Tricia Brouk (04:31):
Oh, my goodness, Sara and Arjun, I'm so honored
to be here, and I love that youask one another how you're
feeling, and you really giveeach other the space to share
that truth. When somebody says,How are you or how are you
feeling, we're so quick to say,Fine. When we give ourselves
(04:51):
permission to really share thetruth of how we're feeling,
that's how we can connect on amuch deeper level. And to answer
your question, I am feelinghonored, I'm feeling excited,
I'm feeling privileged, and I'mfeeling blessed to be here and
to have this conversation withyou both today.
Sara Deschamps (05:11):
That's amazing.
I'd love us to jump right inTricia. I'd love for you to take
us back. Can you tell us alittle bit about your origin
story? So what was your journeyin finding your own voice?
Tricia Brouk (05:22):
I am from Arnold, Missouri, which was a small town
20 miles south of St Louis, andI grew up in a small town farm.
We had some cows and some cornfields, and we sold strawberries
on the side of the road, and Isaw my sister dance when I was
(05:44):
seven. She was taking lessons atthe local dance studio, and she
was dancing and tap dancing witha pink poodle costume. And I
remember thinking, I want to beon stage. I didn't really know
what that meant, and I certainlydidn't want to be dancing in a
poodle costume, but I becamecompletely obsessed with
(06:05):
classical ballet and PBS, andstarted dreaming of becoming a
classical ballet dancer andmoving to New York City to dance
with Baryshnikov. So I told mymother, I'm going to dance
class, and she enrolled me, andI started the process of
fulfilling my dream, and I wasone of those dancers who would
(06:27):
come home from school sit withmy feet underneath the door
frame to help my arches becomeeven more beautiful. I would
study in the full splits so thatI could be as flexible as
possible. And I would go todance class as often as I could,
cut to wanting to graduate fromhigh school and move directly to
(06:48):
New York City, and my parents,luckily had the foresight to
make me go to college. So I wentto university, and I got a
degree in dance, and it was anaccelerated three year, two
summer programs. So I moved toNew York City at the age of 20
to pursue this career,and started waiting tables. Then
I started my own company, then Istarted touring the world with
(07:13):
all of these incrediblechoreographers and dance
companies. And 13 years to theday, I moved to New York City.
I danced with bursnikov When Iwas working with the Lucinda
childs Dance Company, and alsoknew that I had
(07:35):
a voice that wasn't completelyfulfilled because I was dancing
and I was definitely expressingmyself through physicality.
However, I wasn't using myactual voice, and so I decided I
would retire, and I did one lastdance performance. It was a one
(07:55):
woman show where I brought allof the solos that I had ever
danced from other choreographersand then choreographed several
on my own, and I produced thisone woman show, one woman dance
show, and I created it very muchlike the the monks create the
mandalas, the Buddhist monkscreate the sand mandalas. And
they take months and months andmonths to create these gorgeous
(08:19):
mandalas with different colorsof sand, and when they're
complete, they wipe it away,they wash it away. And that's
exactly what I did with my finaldance performance. And then
moved into choreography anddirecting, working in film,
television and theater,continued to do that and to
express myself in that way, onthe other side of the table, on
(08:43):
the other side of the camera.
And then all of a sudden,sudden, one of my friends said,
I want you to direct my TEDtalk. And I approached it just
like a one woman show,and there was choreography and
blocking and intention andscript analysis, and she planted
the seed that thought leadersand professionals would really
benefit from me helping thembecome effective communicators.
(09:06):
And what I realized in thatmoment was the legacy that I was
leaving was limited to thenumber of people in the theater
and the length of time I was onstage. So if I could create
documentaries and supportspeakers and thought leaders,
that legacy would have a rippleeffect that would go way beyond
(09:29):
me being a performer and beingon stage. And here I am in New
York City, and for those of youwho are listening, you may be
hearing some construction nextdoor, because that's how it goes
in New York City. And I look outat the Alvin Ailey Dance
Theater, literally, this iswhere I live, and I get to see
(09:50):
the dancers realizing theirdream. And that's also the
legacy, if energetically, I canshow up every day in this room.
And support thought leaders andenergetically cheer on the
dancers who are living out theirdreams, then my life is
complete.
Sara Deschamps (10:09):
Wow. Tricia, that is full circle. And
speaking of storytelling, what abeautiful story. You mentioned
TEDx. I was wondering if youcould tell us a bit more about
your work with TEDx and maybeyour own speaker series. I
believe it's called speakers whodare so you seem to have a
passion for creating spaces andfor creating platforms where
(10:29):
other people can tell their ownstories. Can you tell us a
little bit more about thatmission?
Tricia Brouk (10:34):
Absolutely, Sara, when I made the decision to
start supporting thought leadersin using their voice for impact.
All of a sudden, as one, as ithappens, when one makes a
decision and the universeconnects to you, it all becomes
part of receivership. So all ofa sudden, I had all these
speakers and no place to putthem. Well, as a theater
(10:56):
producer, I produce shows.
What's the best show forspeakers? TEDx, so I became the
executive producer of TEDxLincoln Square, and I produced
that show for two years, and Iabsolutely loved putting those
speakers on my stage. And then Iwanted more creative control, so
I started producing my own eventcalled speakers who dare. And in
March of 2020,we were having an event in New
(11:19):
York City that obviously did nothappen, and I was able to
actually innovate and create aplatform for those speakers. As
a filmmaker, I had them allshoot themselves, filming their
talks. I got all of the footage,and I edited together all of
their talks, and I created afilm of speakers who dare.
(11:42):
And what that taught me wasanything is possible, and when
you're faced with a challenge,you have an opportunity to
innovate or tostagnate. And I decided to
innovate, and that is why Icreated TEDx Lincoln Square and
speakers who dare and now withthis platform, all of a sudden,
Oxford talks, speak. Speak upwomen. They know that I can
(12:08):
produce incredible speakers fortheir events. So what's happened
since then? And I'm waiting toput on my next big event, but
what's happened since then isI've become the funnel, the go
to for highly sought afterspeakers. And that is something
that I'm super proud of.
Arjun Sahdev (12:28):
That's such a such a fascinating again, once again,
such a fascinating story aboutyour, your TEDx experience. For
a second, I just want to switchlanes into your your fantastic
book, the influential voice. Andas I mentioned earlier, I think,
I think the power of our voicesis just so important and
(12:49):
compelling in this day and age,but, but one of the things you
mentioned in your book is theimportance of dignified
language. But what doesdignified language mean to you,
Tricia, and how can it helpshape the way we lead and the
way we communicate, the way weshow up in the world?
Tricia Brouk (13:06):
Arjun, this is such a wonderful question, and
something that I care deeplyabout. I truly believe all
voices matter, and that meansrespecting the opinions of
others that I don't necessarilyalign with and when I say
dignified language, it meansbeing able to speak
(13:29):
in a way that is respectful ofeveryone's way of being thought
process and differing opinions.
And it is not gossip. It is notname calling. It is not making
fun of it's a conscious choiceas an influential voice to
recognize that every singlething you say has the
(13:51):
possibility of creating love,hate, good or evil, and if we
fully step into being aninfluential voice and making a
commitment to speaking withdignified language, that means
that we're aligning with goodand we're aligning with love.
(14:11):
And there's a lot happening inthe United States, where I live
right now when it comes to nothaving dignified speech and and
I often do an analysis ofcampaign
performances and people who runfor office, because there's a
(14:33):
lot of people who may not agreewith you, or you may not agree
with them, but they'redefinitely speaking With
dignified language, and that'swhat I mean, respect,
avoiding gossip, avoiding hatespeech
at all costs, because it's ourresponsibility as influential
voices to recognize the impactof what we say and when we
(14:59):
really fully.
Understand that and we own thatresponsibility, then we can have
the kind of impact we're lookingto have in the world for good.
Sara Deschamps (15:11):
You mentioned love, you mentioned hate, this
idea of the human experience,and you touch upon this a bit in
your book, as well, the humanexperience amidst social media,
amidst the noise and amidstemerging technologies, and Arjun
and I talk about this quite abit with our team, and I'd love
to ask you, in the world thatwe're living in today, what does
(15:32):
it mean to you to be here in orto be more human?
Tricia Brouk (15:36):
It means understanding that you have a
consciousness and a soul that isdirectly connected to how you
communicate. I haveconversations about artificial
intelligence all the time, andhere at the big talk, we make a
decision to not use AI tocommunicate with our community,
(15:58):
meaning, I write all of myemails. They are coming from my
soul. They're coming from myheart. I write my books, and
that's a that's a choice that wemake. Now I'm not saying that AI
is bad. I'm saying that thedifference between being human
and using artificialintelligence is the connection
to the soul and theconsciousness. I'm an artist.
(16:20):
I'm a creator, this is how Ishow up in the world, so I can
only tap into what I'm beinggiven as an artist. And that
doesn't mean going into chat GPTto create a new play. It means
being available for the muse,for source to tell me how to be
(16:44):
the vehicle to create content.
And that's the difference for mewhen it comes to being human and
what's going on in a silo ofsocial media or artificial
intelligence, creativity.
Sara Deschamps (16:59):
I'd like to stay on that idea of consciousness
for just another moment, and I'dlove to highlight a passage in
your book that really resonatedwith me. I read it a couple of
times over and over, where youaddressed consciousness and your
factual story versus the falsestory that historically you
might tell yourself about yourjourney. Can you tell us a bit
(17:20):
more about this, and then theimpact that this could
potentially have on someonefactual versus false.
Tricia Brouk (17:27):
For many years, I would say I accidentally became
a choreographer. I accidentallybecame a director. I
accidentally wrote a book, andwhat I realized was that I was
creating this this false senseof reality for myself. I became
a choreographer because I was atrained dancer for most of my
(17:52):
life. I became a directorbecause I understand a good
director hires well and they'reorganized. I understand that I
became a writer because I satdown and I did the work. So what
happens is I created thisconfidence, competence loop,
where I am competent, and thatgave me the confidence to then
(18:16):
own. I didn't accidentallybecome any of this. I worked
really hard. I understand theart and the craft of what it
means to be a choreographer anda director and an author, and
that was the false story I wastelling myself. So as soon as I
fully embodied, no I called allof this in and I also did the
work in order to show up fullyand to understand my craft and
(18:41):
to stay curious and to learnmore about my craft in order to
improve. That was me opening upto what was available to me and
really owning my consciousness.
I have had an incredible andhave an incredible life, and
that is because I have stayedcurious. I understand that the
(19:06):
world is bigger than me, andthat this one moment that I have
while I'm in human form on theplanet is all I get. And I want
to show up as fully as possible,and going back to legacy and
leave that lasting legacy. SoI'm deeply connected to what my
consciousness is meant to do,and I'm available to receive
(19:28):
that. And there's nothing aboutAI that is is brought into this
conversation aboutconsciousness. So thank you for
asking that follow up question,Sara.
Sara Deschamps (19:42):
Staying on that idea of factual versus false
stories and a lot of your book,there are so many parallels that
I drew to the work that that wedo with leaders and with
innovators and with innovationincubators globally, around
questioning, around assumptionbusting around questioning your
(20:02):
own stories and your ownperspectives, and also seeking
different points of view. Ithink you mentioned that earlier
as well. Can you speak to someof the parallels that you see in
your work that could directlyimpact leaders today?
Tricia Brouk (20:15):
Well, I think, as an artist, we hear no a lot
there. The door is always beingclosed on us as an artist, as a
dancer, as a producer, as awriter. How many times I've
submitted pilots to Netflix andto Hulu, and it's, it's a it's a
(20:37):
matter of not allowing that tobe a no and as an innovator, as
a creator, understanding thatwhat's meant for you is meant
for you, and to keep opening thedoors. And if you can open the
door, build your own door sothat it stays open. And that's,
I think, the parallels that wecan draw here. And the big talk
(20:59):
is a global community as well.
And I'm always really excitedwhen we bring in speakers from
all over the world who have adifferent way of being, they
have a different culture, theyspeak a different language, and
so knowing that the collectivecommon desire is to have an
impact by using your voice thatis something that just excites
(21:25):
me beyond what's possible. So Ithink the being curious,
spending time with people whoknow more than you, spending
time with people who aredifferent from you, and
understanding that all voicesmatter.
Arjun Sahdev (21:45):
You know, Tricia, just just a reflection I think I
I got this definitely throughyour broader work, but much more
poignantly, as I'm sitting herelistening to you speak is just
how I can feel your passion inwanting to help people find
(22:08):
their influential voice, butalso the power with which that
can you know that can be usedwithin the world, so For someone
or for listeners that feeluncertain about the intention of
their voice? Perhaps the themessage that they're trying to
(22:29):
get across, or even you knowtheir their direction? What?
What steps would you recommendthey take to discover and refine
their their their voice to makeit more influential, more
authentic.
Tricia Brouk (22:44):
Thank you for asking that question. Arjun, and
I think the first thing is, hopon over to the influential
voice. Grab a book. There's anaudio book as well.
Then I think it really meansgoing inside and determining
what are your values, what isyour purpose and what is your
(23:05):
mission. When you align withyour values and your purpose and
your mission, then there's noway you can stay silent any
longer. And I am certain thateveryone who is listening to
this and watching this, wouldnever want to silence anyone
else. They would never judgeanyone else for using their
(23:28):
voice so knowing that youlistener would not do that to
another person.
Why would you violate your ownprinciples by staying silent and
by judging yourself. So Iencourage and I inspire you to
think about that one person inthe world. There's over 8
(23:52):
billion people on the planet,that one person in the world who
needs to hear from you, and ifyou stay silent, that is
selfish, and I know that youlistener are not selfish.
Arjun Sahdev (24:07):
What a wonderful message, and it just brings me,
I guess, onto the next point,really, because part of that
silence is also driven androoted in ego. So it takes me to
this, to this kind of pointaround detachment, which you
(24:27):
speak about as a key principlein leadership. I wonder if you
could explain to us howdetaching from your ego, from
outcomes, from perceptions thatyou're holding or have
previously held, can really helpleaders become more adaptable,
more resilient and and moreauthentic in today's fast paced
(24:48):
world.
Tricia Brouk (24:49):
I think of ego nature being smart and Buddha
nature being wise and and I amcurrently working on my third
book, which is about the wisdomof Buddha nature and successful
leadership. And it's not a it'snot a book on spirituality or
(25:10):
religion. It is really a book onhow to incorporate the
principles and the philosophiesof this 1000 year old tradition,
which includes detachment,oneness and impermanence, in
order to create better leaders.
And when it comes to detachment,as leaders, we want our teams to
(25:34):
be a certain way. We want tohave a certain profit margin. We
want things to go as quickly aspossible. That is attachment.
And attachment creates friction.
It creates suffering, and itcreates the inability to be
(25:59):
efficient. If you think aboutdetaching from the outcome of a
launch, detaching from theoutcome of whether or not your
team is going to be as efficientor make mistakes or not make
mistakes, when you detach fromthose outcomes, it frees you as
a leader to keep a forwardmomentum that is much swifter
(26:21):
now I am married, and I have afur baby. Joe is my husband. Eva
Moon is my fur baby, and I amvery attached to both of them.
So this is a practice. This isnot something that is just easy.
As a leader, when you practicedetachment and oneness and
(26:42):
impermanence, you actually canlead at a much higher level, and
you can model that kind ofleadership for your team and
your community and all of theother leaders on the planet. And
so I really am excited to beable to introduce these ideas to
up and coming leaders and to theseasoned leaders who may think
(27:08):
just because they're smart,they've got it all figured out,
but I'm introducing this conceptof wisdom.
Arjun Sahdev (27:17):
Well, Tricia, you mentioned something that just
made my my ears prick up,because I've seen a fantastic
video that you did recently atan Oxford talk where you
introduced this concept of ofBuddha nature in leadership. How
can embracing Buddha Naturetransform a leader's approach,
(27:40):
but but also just beingpractical for a second. What's
one or two things that leadersthat are listening can actually
do to help them connect withBuddha with their Buddha nature?
Tricia Brouk (27:52):
Well, I think the first thing is to understand the
difference between ego natureand Buddha nature. And ego
nature is you being smart andmaking decisions that you think
are in alignment with what'sbest as a leader. However, when
you when you connect with yourBuddha Nature, which is the
wisdom of making decisions, andyou cultivate oneness,
(28:13):
detachment, impermanence, thosesorts of philosophies. How that
helps you is you have a biggerpicture, you understand that
every decision you make has aripple effect, because of
oneness, because we are allconnected. Here's a very simple
example. Let's say one of youremployees, one of your
(28:36):
consultants, comes in, and asthe leader, they've they've done
something that's upset you, andas the leader, you chew them
out.
And it's not your best day, it'snot your best behavior. But you
didn't think first, and you justacted. You reacted instead of
responded well, because ofoneness and the understanding of
(29:00):
that philosophy, that personmight go home and chew out their
kid, and that kid might feelreally badly about themselves,
and that spiral happens notknowing that mom or dad had a
bad day at work. So when wethink about oneness, and we
think about how every action,every behavior that we take, can
(29:25):
affect people way beyond what wecan even see that makes us a
better leader, because we comeback to Sara, we become more
conscious, and that's why I'mexcited to talk about the
difference between ego natureand Buddha nature, and how
practicing these philosophies ofgetting still, giving us a
(29:50):
moment to pause so that we canrespond instead of react.
Understanding the differencebetween being smart and being
wise, understanding. Saying thatnothing is going to last. So
showing up like today is yourlast day that makes you a better
(30:10):
leader.
Sara Deschamps (30:16):
I'd love to jump in and go back to something that
you mentioned about using yourvoice and aligning it with your
your values, your mission. AndI'd like to bring up the human
experience of fear, I think, tomoments in my past where there
has been a certain amount offear around aligning my voice
with my values, as I'm sure manycan relate to. And I'm wondering
(30:39):
if I believe at one point youmentioned, I believe it was in
your book becoming intimate withyour fear. I'd love it if you
could talk a little bit moreabout that.
Tricia Brouk (30:49):
Fear is a human response, and it is something
that can coexist with deliveringa talk, with being a leader and
so having an intimaterelationship with your personal
fear is only going to help you,and what I mean by that is it's
(31:09):
never going to go away, if youcare. I have been on 1000s of
stages, and I still get nerves.
I still have butterflies, Istill think, who am I to write a
third book about Buddha nature,and that fear is what fuels me.
I am the person I am meant forthis. So when that fear pops
(31:31):
into your head and it will, thisis what I do, huh, that's funny,
and then I let it go. So anytimea story happens, anytime fear
comes in, because I don't havetime for fear, you don't have
time for fear. We have a verylimited amount of time on this
(31:53):
planet. And you have youlistener and Sara and Arjun, you
have so much incredible work todo in the world and things to
contribute to humanity. Soallowing fear to usurp your
energy for a nanosecond is is ahard No. So anytime that fear
(32:14):
pops in as a human being, justsimply, that's funny, and then
let it go.
Sara Deschamps (32:25):
I love that. It goes back to that idea of
detachment.
Tricia Brouk (32:28):
It does.
Arjun Sahdev (32:29):
How does that parallel? Just, just for, for,
for my own interest, really? Howdoes that parallel, do you
think, with the experience ofuncertainty in your experience.
So there is so much that we arefrom a everything from kind of
(32:49):
environmentally, politically,socially, geographically,
there's so much uncertaintythat's brewing in the world. How
does the experience, or can welearn from dealing with the
experience of fear in that waythat can help us also embrace
uncertainty?
Tricia Brouk (33:08):
This is a very deep question and a conversation
that I hope everyone continuesto have. There is a lot of
uncertainty in the world rightnow, and there's a lot of pain
in the world right now. There'sa lot of pain, there's a lot of
sadness, and I have theprivilege of working with
(33:32):
thought leaders who speak aboutclimate, who speak about
trafficking, who speak about thehard stuff. So because I am so
privileged and honored to beable to spend time with people
all the time who are talkingabout the hard stuff, I also get
to ask them, How do you get upevery morning knowing the truth
(33:56):
about what it is you're talkingabout? And they always say, I
still have hope, and that's whatI hold on to during these
uncertain times. I still havehope that the human spirit will
gravitate towards love and peaceand that collectively, if we
(34:22):
make that conscious choice tograb it, gravitate towards love
and peace, we can win good willwin over evil.
Arjun Sahdev (34:33):
Thank you so much for that. Tricia, that's a
wonderful message once again. Soone of the things that strikes
me is just how how broadly worksacross the creative fields, be
it a director, writer, a coach,a producer. I'm just wondering
how you balance the creativedemands of storytelling with the
(34:55):
more structured responsibilitiesof leadership being a leader
yourself.
Tricia Brouk (35:02):
It really is about prioritizing and organizing and
making self care a nonnegotiable. I know at the level
that I want to play. I want toplay at a high level. I play at
elevation, and that means makingsure that I'm hydrated and
getting enough sleep and that Ipractice getting still and
(35:24):
exercising and meditating andalso giving myself structured
time to be creative andstructured time to reflect on
what kind of a leader was Itoday, and how can I be a better
leader tomorrow?
Sara Deschamps (35:40):
From all of this work and this experience in the
arts and in the media fields,Tricia, what do you feel leaders
can learn from artists andactors?
Tricia Brouk (35:52):
We are the most disciplined creatures, and we
understand failure. We have ahigh risk tolerance. We don't
take no for an answer, and weare filled with grit. That is
why I truly believe I understandmy role as a leader. It's
(36:16):
because of my experience as adancer, having no multiple times
a day at auditions,understanding that the plies put
me in a state of readiness. Asleaders, we need to be in a
state of readiness always, andthat means doing the plies,
doing the bicep curls. Being anathlete is how you can be an
(36:39):
incredible leader.
Arjun Sahdev (36:41):
Tricia, you mentioned self care a little
earlier and and just nowmentioning your, your background
of being a dancer, and theinfluence it had. And, you know,
the the being an athlete, whatit takes to be an athlete, self
care is at the center of that,I'm I'm sure that there are, and
(37:04):
there are a number of practicaltactics and techniques that
you've honed and refined overthe years, just wondering how
those practices, how thosetechniques, have actually
impacted your ability to show upfor others, and I wonder whether
you can perhaps share a fewanecdotes or some stories about
(37:26):
about how those things arepaying dividends in your life.
Tricia Brouk (37:29):
Well, according to my aura ring, my cardiovascular
health is seven years below myage, so that's one of the ways
it's paying off. The other thingthat I can say is my ability to
be extremely present witheveryone that I come in contact
with, and that's something thatI also cultivate and am very
(37:55):
conscious of as an influentialvoice. You are an influential
voice. When you are at thebarista, you are an influential
voice. When you are across thecounter at the grocery store and
the woman or the man or theyoung person who is ringing you
up, every interaction that youhave with another human being,
you have an opportunity to makethem feel seen and to make them
(38:19):
feel better because of yourinteraction with them, which
means I need to make sure thatmy tank is full before I go out
into the world, so that I can beas present as possible with
every single person I interactwith, and being conscious to
(38:39):
say, You know what? Today, I'mtired, I'm going to be super
mindful of how quick I am ormight be to react. So I'm going
to be super mindful today andgive myself a little bit of
grace because I'm tired. Andtonight, I'm going to go to bed
a little bit early so thattomorrow I can be more fully
(39:00):
present. So it's about beingaware. It's about understanding
the impact of your interactionswith people and making a
decision about what yourmission, purpose and values are.
Because being able to be aspresent with everyone I come in
contact with as possible, thatis part of my values.
Sara Deschamps (39:20):
And Tricia, when it comes to your core needs or
your your physical needs, if youare feeling that there's a day
that perhaps you're not feelingat your most optimal, is that
something that you try and sharewith others, speaking of
communication, so that they knowthat they can meet you where
you're at.
Tricia Brouk (39:37):
That's a really good question. I've never been
asked that before. I tend to notshare that, because that is a
story that could potentiallyinform how they see me, and it's
my job as an influential voiceto show up as fully as possible.
So let's say I'm under theweather. Now, I'm not going to
(40:01):
cancel a podcast recording,necessarily, but I'm going to
give myself 30 minutes prior tosit quietly, to hydrate and to
give myself a little extraenergy prior knowing that I
might be a little tired or underthe weather,
Arjun Sahdev (40:17):
Just following on from this as well as a leader,
how do you empower others thatyou lead to identify where they
can use their energy, theircapacity, and therefore their
voice, in the most powerful way,given how they're feeling, their
(40:37):
this, their sense of self care.
Tricia Brouk (40:40):
Part of what we do on our team is we we talk about
the values and the mission andthe purpose, and I am effusive
when it comes to highlighting myteam's successes and what
they're good at. So we alwayslead with positive and we also
(41:01):
sunshine and highlight mistakesas learnings and not mistakes,
learnings and lessons. And ifI'm noticing that the team is,
let's say, overworked, we've gota lot of initiatives happening
at once. It's my job to makethem feel seen, to make them
(41:21):
feel empowered and to remindthem why we're doing what we're
doing. And I have a remote team,and most of them have been with
me for years, and I know thatthat is very unique, and I do
not take it for granted, andthat is really because we have a
(41:42):
culture that is all about loveand respect and dignity, and we
are all aligned with themission, which is to be the most
transformational and lovingspeaker platform in the world.
So aligning yourself to themission, whatever that mission
is for you, will lift you upwhen you are tired, anxious,
(42:06):
experiencing fear, experiencinguncertainty, and that is really
what we hold as our North Star.
Sara Deschamps (42:15):
If the conversations we've been having
on the evolving leader havehelped you in any way, please
head over to Apple podcasts andleave us a rating and review.
Thank you for listening. Nowlet's get back to the
conversation.
Tricia, I feel you're in thisincredible position where you
get to hear so many people'sstories and so many people's
(42:36):
influential voices, and I'mwondering if you cast your gaze
back at the history of thepeople that you've heard, where
do you see best practices, who'sreally owning and using their
voice for good? Or maybe, whatindustries are you seeing this
the most in, and where are youseeing that global reach? And
(42:57):
then maybe on the other side,where do you think some of the
biggest challenges lay and whatchallenges are leaders facing
today in really digging deep andfinding their voice?
Tricia Brouk (43:08):
Well, I mean, last night, Barack Obama was in
Wisconsin, and this is notpolitical. I'm simply sharing
that his influential voice wasall about inspiring people to
vote. This is the kind of impactone can have by using their
voice. You can create policychange. You can inspire a
(43:32):
movement. Dr Andrew Benedict,who is the founder of anergia,
he is creating the scientificprocess where we could literally
become net negative, not netzero. And he is speaking all
over the place about this. Sobeing able to support Catherine
(43:56):
Garcia, who ran for mayor in NewYork City, and she's now working
under Kathy Hochul, these arethe kinds of people who when
they understand that it's biggerthan them and they're public
servants.
They're public servants, they'renot celebrities. So
understanding that your voicecan create a movement. It can
(44:19):
create policy change. It cancreate awareness around
something that will connect youwith another human being, and I
think that is the importance ofusing your voice, so you don't
have to be a celebrity and youdon't have to be a politician to
have this kind of impact as aninfluential voice. You can be a
teacher in front of a classroomof second graders, you can be a
(44:43):
parent, being an influentialvoice to your kids, and that's
why I speak so passionatelyabout this. It's because the
power of your voice, the powerof sharing your story. I can
literally change and even savesomeone's life,
Arjun Sahdev (45:05):
Just hanging on to that last that last bit for a
second the power of sharing yourstory. I'm sure many, many of
the listeners know or have heardof Brene Brown and and her, her
thoughts and reflections onvulnerability and just how
(45:26):
critical I think this is whensharing your authentic truth,
your story from yourperspective. Tricia, how can
leaders and speakers embracevulnerability in a way that
really strengthens their voiceand strengthens the message that
they're trying to send out.
Tricia Brouk (45:44):
Being vulnerable does not mean sharing your story
before you've healed from it,and that's really important as a
leader. If you are sharing yourstory in service of an audience,
it means you're sharingvulnerably from the scar, not
the wound, in service of theaudience, having an experience.
(46:07):
And the other part of beingvulnerable as a leader means you
can have emotion withoutbecoming emotional. These are
two distinctive differences whenit comes to the use and the
embodiment of vulnerability, andI'll say it again. Speak from
the scar, not the wound. Makesure you're healed from anything
(46:28):
that you're sharing that isvulnerable. And you can have
emotion as a leader withoutbecoming emotional. If you
become emotional as a leader,you are robbing the audience of
having an emotional experience.
Arjun Sahdev (46:42):
Just on on that last point, it made me wonder,
What are the dangers of sharingyour story without healing? So
speaking from the wound first.
Tricia Brouk (46:53):
Well, you could potentially re traumatize
yourself, and you also requirethe audience to take care of
you, and that is not that is nottheir job. You as a leader or as
a speaker on a big stage, youare there to speak to and to
lead your audience. And if youare not speaking from a place of
healed experience, then you arerequiring the audience to take
(47:18):
care of you, and that is not theposition that you want to put
them in.
Sara Deschamps (47:24):
Tricia. You have given us so much incredible
goodness today. But I would liketo ask you, from everything that
you've shared, if our audience,if our leaders, could do one
thing today, one small step, onefirst step in finding their
voice and really harnessing thepower of storytelling. What
(47:45):
would that one thing be?
Tricia Brouk (47:47):
It would be to ask yourself what you would say and
how you would say it if youdidn't have tomorrow.
Arjun Sahdev (47:57):
What a powerful question that's that's, uh,
that's gonna have me thinkingfor the rest of the day. Before,
before we close Tricia, I I wantto touch on a point around
legacy, because one of the bigthemes in your book that stood
(48:20):
out to me was about was thiskind of idea of leaving a
lasting legacy. So I couldn'tleave the conversation without
asking you how you define legacyand what advice you have for
leaders who are really lookingto build a legacy through their
work, those that define ormeasure their legacy through the
(48:42):
work that they're doing.
Tricia Brouk (48:44):
I think if you understand that every book you
write, every conversation youhave, every training that you
deliver, that's an opportunityfor you to leave a legacy,
because everyone who has thattraining reads that book is
going to share it with others.
So the ripple effect of thepeople that you touch and impact
is ultimately your legacy. Soevery time I show up for a
(49:07):
podcast or have a conversationwith someone or share a training
with someone or a master classor I teach, I understand deeply
that is my lasting legacy, andso I show up 150% every single
time, because again, this goesback to understanding the laws
of impermanence. Tomorrow mightnot come. So I have today to
(49:31):
build on the legacy that I amliving. So as a leader, if you
are listening to this and youwant to lead your legacy start
right now if you haven't,because you can create a legacy
very rapidly by understandingevery time you interact with
another human being, you leaveyour legacy. And that
fingerprint and that rippleeffect goes on and on and on way
(49:53):
beyond after you're here andafter you're gone.
Sara Deschamps (50:00):
Tricia, before we close, are there any final
thoughts that you'd like tooffer our listeners?
Tricia Brouk (50:05):
I would just like to remind you that your voice
matters. There is only one youand when you when you speak and
share your powerful voice withthe world, you truly can change
and even save a life.
Arjun Sahdev (50:20):
Tricia, thank you so much for coming on the
evolving leader today. This wassuch an incredible conversation.
The time has flown by. I can'tbelieve we've been we've been
talking for nearly an hour, butthere's so much to take away
from your stories, from youradvice, from your authenticity,
and just such a big lessonaround how our voices can ripple
(50:45):
across people's across theworld, people's minds, and the
actions that they then take fromthat so thank you for sharing
this important message today.
Tricia Brouk (50:56):
Arjun and Sara, thank you so much for having me.
You've been incredible hosts,and I am feeling so grateful.
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