May 18, 2021 • 20 mins
We discuss stress and burnout at work, why it sneaks up on people, and how it creates more havoc than you realize.
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Episode Transcript
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Dr. D. (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the realm. I'm Dr. D. I bring this
strategy
Dr. K (00:06):
and I'm Dr. K, I bring the psychology we are business
psychologist and your guides tothe executive route where we
bring strategy and psychologytogether,
Dr. D. (00:15):
so you can bring your best to your C-suite, your teams
and your customers. Today we'retalking about stress and
burnout, why it sneaks up onpeople and creates more havoc
than you realize. So let's getto work. Dr. K, welcome back
from your week away. I know youtook a great vacation, went
international, spent some timeon the beach and enjoyed your
(00:37):
time. Since our topic is stressand burnout, and you are now
back from a stress relievingvacation... How did your
vacation play into that stressand burnout that you might have
been feeling?
Dr. K (00:48):
It's interesting, I knew that I needed to take a break, I
needed a vacation, it did notbecome apparent until my first
day I arrived. It took me thewhole day to get into a place of
Hey, you're not working paid.
You don't have to think aboutanything but relaxing. And
that's when I realized howstressed and turned out I had
become despite the fact that Iwas still on point with my
(01:11):
clients there with them everystep of the way. My own personal
self care and recognition that Ineeded a break was not apparent
at all. So the fact that it tookme a day to get to a place where
I can relax shoulders away frommy ears, you know, I was one of
the best night's sleep I've hadin an extended period of time it
was it's that made me recognizeI need to take more time or at
(01:35):
least be more conscientious ofthe fact that distress is now
leading to the burnout.
Dr. D. (01:42):
As somebody who finds stress kind of empowering
myself, right, I work well underdeadlines. I like to have a lot
of things going on. There'sthere's good stress, and there's
bad Stress, Stress is generallyconsidered not great. But there
is something called us stress,which is kind of like euphoria,
technical term thatpsychologists use for the good
stress in your life. And it'snecessary, but anything that is
(02:05):
good, that is overused canbecome a bad thing.
Dr. K (02:09):
Yeah, absolutely. And I can be the same way. You know,
there's been times in my lifewhere it's been school and work
and whether it was you know, asignificant other or when I was
in high school, it was playingsports. And it would be a charge
to have all of these things thatI needed to get done for me at
times, if I don't have a lot onmy plate, I actually slack off
(02:30):
more However, when there's a loton my plate, and those things
are not getting completed or notprogressing, moving forward or
improving. If something needs toimprove, that's when it becomes
the bad stress. That's when it'sno longer a motivation.
Dr. D. (02:44):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And there's always
stress that you put on yourselfwhere you put something off for
too long, or you'd be updeadlines, there are a lot of
areas where you can drive yourown stress. And then of course,
there's all those externalstressors coming out of a year
of quarantine, all the changethat caused a lot of stress for
a lot of folks. And it was adifficult time, it created a lot
(03:07):
of inner turmoil driven byexternal forces. It's that
external stress that when youbuild up a high level of
internal self motivating stress,and then you have some external
stressors piled on like thedeath of a loved one, family
stress, or all of those thingsthat can throw you for a loop,
it can push you over that edge,and you don't necessarily
(03:28):
realize can overwhelm you andyou're in your stress load,
you're already so bound up inthe stressors of day to day
life, that those extra things,they put you over the edge, but
you don't necessarily realizethat they've put you over the
edge that that's when you kindof lose control of where you are
in reality and really lose trackof your capability and your
(03:49):
ability in the world.
Dr. K (03:50):
Absolutely. And stress.
You know, it's the temporarystress pushes us out of our
comfort zone. It's good becauseit can help us to grow it can
help us to learn and we thenachieve a certain goal that we
are striving for. So in thataspect, the temporary stress is
great. And within the comfortzone, we don't like to be pushed
out of our comfort zone. Butthen that comfort zone arena
(04:11):
changes the parameters aroundthe comfort zone changes,
whether it gets larger, getssmaller or disappears, where
we're just like, Oh, this isgreat. I can always change and
try new things. It's when thosestressors start piling on and
they never get resolved or andespecially with the external
stressors because our internalstressors we can improve for
(04:32):
ourselves. But externalstressors such as a boss that's
always harping on someone or youknow does not have any
interpersonal skills. That is astress that we can't really
typically do a lot about becauseit is on someone else. So when
those stressors start to build,that's when that burnout comes
and there is a differencebetween stress and burnout.
(04:53):
Oftentimes they are usedinterchangeably, but with the
burnout, the long term negativestate That we are in which leads
to emotional exhaustion,physical fatigue, oftentimes a
cognitive weariness, we're moreexhausted in our brains were
difficulty focusing, you know,inability to concentrate, get
things done. That's where thephysical effects come into play.
(05:16):
And burnout has been researchedto lead into depression if it
does not get fixed, becauseremember, the difference between
the stress and burnout is thatburnout is a long term effect.
Dr. D. (05:29):
I recall from one of our early conversations, we talked
about acute stress disorder andhow you don't necessarily
recognize the symptoms of acutestress doesn't necessarily come
on. And while you're understress, it's after the stress
alleviates that you can fallinto the symptoms of acute
stress. And if you don't recoverquickly, that can turn into
PTSD. Or there are really threedifferent kinds of stressors
(05:53):
that lead into the day to daylife. There's the stress that we
put on ourselves that we use toenergize ourselves and motivate
ourselves, but also just fromour behaviors and actions. There
are those short term externalstressors of deadlines and
things that pop out of nowheredeath in the family I mentioned.
But then there's also those longterm stressors, as you said, a
boss that maybe harps on youincessantly. And that's you're
(06:15):
working somewhere for years, andpeople live with money, stress,
financial stress, having to carefor a loved one, everyone's
family dynamic and familysituation brings a different
level and a different amount ofstress into their life. And
people also have differentcoping mechanisms for dealing
with stress. Some people dressis not a big deal, they can deal
with it, they internalize it,and then they let it go, it
(06:36):
rolls off their back. And thenthere are some people that hold
on to that like precious jewelinside their chest that they
just can't quite let go of. Andyou know, as a therapist
yourself, I'm sure you see amuch wider array of how people
internalize and deal with stressexternally in your in your
clinical practice.
Dr. K (06:54):
It's acute stress, or it's just like an immediate
short term stress, an increasein anxiety, overthinking
ruminating thoughts, maybestarting to have some nights
where there's difficultysleeping, you're stressed out.
So maybe you skip a lunch orsomething like that. And those
are always signs that whenclients and I are working
together that I will try to findout well how do you know you're
(07:15):
stressed what's going on, and westart finding ways to improve
them so that it doesn't turninto something more, it's
recognizing the signs at workthat you are starting to stress
and or become burned out. Andone of the biggest ones is is
that you dread going to work.
But if every time you're drivinginto work, you're starting to
have anxiety or panic attack,you get upset stomach, you have
a headache all throughout yourday at work, muscle tension,
(07:37):
unable to relax, those are signsthat there is something usually
that's a good sign that, okay,I'm either extremely stressed
out, or I'm becoming burned out.
Dr. D. (07:47):
Everybody has times in their life when they don't want
to get out of bed and they justdon't feel like going into work.
And it happens to everybody. Andsome people don't feel like
they're in a position to changetheir work state. They don't
feel like they're feeling somesense of obligation that keeps
them in a job or in a role orfeel like they have a lack of
options available to them. Andthat's another form of stress.
People don't necessarily have alot of comfort dealing with
(08:11):
themselves.
Dr. K (08:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Especially if it's somethingthat's ongoing. You know, you
know, a lot of times people willbe like, yeah, I never get
swore, you know, they get to aplace where they're, you know,
where they think, well, whenthey're getting sick a lot, oh,
well, it's just, you know, myimmune systems down or I don't
want to hang out with peopleisolation is a big one as well.
And we start justifying thewarning signs, we justify why
(08:33):
they're happening instead ofgoing, Okay, this is why they're
happening, how do I fix it, weget into a negative mindset that
these things aren't fixable
Dr. D. (08:43):
I've had a really long commute through really tough
traffic, you become really usedto it, it's the only analogy
that I can think of that I canreally relate to, you become
used to it. While the trafficwas miserable, the first few
weeks that I was driving, Ibecame acclimated, and it wasn't
until after I moved or I changedjobs that I felt that sense of
burden lift that I didn't evenrealize I was accommodating in
(09:05):
my life and how life changingsome of those things weren't.
And I have to believe that manypeople who have to adapt by
working from home and with thelack of commute and working from
home lifted a lot of stressorsoff of people, but it also added
a different dynamic, a differentset of stress.
Dr. K (09:22):
You know, it's being honest and real with yourself
saying, Okay, I'm stressed outwhat do I need to do? Or I'm
burnt out and it's finding waysto deal with that. Because you
know, as I said earlier, ifyou're if you're stressing out
and we don't take care of thosethat can lead has a possibility
of leading into the burnout. Andthen if you're burnt out and
that lasts an extended period oftime that has potential of
(09:43):
leading to you know, either ashort term episode of depression
or chronic depression, and thenthat's just a whole nother set
of issues and problems that onehas to work through when they
already aren't feeling good.
Dr. D. (09:56):
And that's only exacerbated, I imagine, by
people who already have Somemental health issues that
they're working through, likedepression or anxiety, dealing
with mental health issues alone,I imagine are probably pretty
stressful.
Dr. K (10:09):
Absolutely any form of mental health issues. Sometimes
they think that that's all theyare. But that's not true. That's
just one piece of the pie. Youare someone that is suffering
from depression, but you're notjust a walking depression.
Dr. D. (10:23):
I often will say, it's just one piece of your puzzle.
It's not the whole puzzle. It'sjust one piece.
That's really insightful. Dr. K,
Dr. K (10:29):
I try, I try.
Dr. D. (10:30):
We've talked a lot about the psychology of stress and
burnout, let's talk about howthat relates at work, obviously,
when you have to recognize yourown level of stress. And you
have to recognize how to takecare of yourself so that you can
bring your best self as we sayto your C suite, your teams and
your customers. But part ofbeing a leader, part of being an
(10:51):
executive is setting the righttone and the right culture
within your organization. To getthe best out of your business.
To be able to really live yourmission, you have to make sure
that you have high functioningwell, performing teams, making
sure that people don't feel sochained to their work that they
can take some time off andhaving a plan for people to take
time off monitoring your teamsto make sure you're picking up
(11:14):
if you have team members thatare approaching those signs of
burnout and stress that theymight not recognize themselves
intervening, and stepping in andbeing a part of the solution for
your team and not just trustingthat if they need time off,
they'll ask you when they'reready. If you develop a culture
where people are really engagedand really enjoy being at work
(11:34):
that can be overdone, and thatcould lead to stress and
burnout. So you really as acultivator of your culture, an
enabler of your mission and yourteam, you have to always be on
the lookout for where people arestressed and insist on people
taking time off finding ways forintroducing levity and periods
of mental relaxation in yourteam so that they can refocus
(11:56):
and re energize and stayenergized.
Dr. K (11:58):
Absolutely. And to piggyback on that you provide
that safe space for youremployees where they feel that
they are able to come to you andsay, Hey, I'm really stressed,
I'm really burned out, that'sgoing to create a culture that's
going to make people want tostay make people want to do
more. And as a leader, it wouldbe important if you are noticing
(12:19):
that someone is out of control.
And I don't mean that they'refreaking out, but out of control
where everything needs to be intheir control. Because when
we're stressed or anxious,sometimes we go into more of a
control mode, because that wefeel safer that way, as a
leader, it's time to walk up towhoever that person is, and be
like, hey, how can I help? Whodo we need to delegate this to
what's going on? You know, I Youseem to be more anxious, you
(12:42):
seem to be more nervous, youknow, and recognizing those
signs. And as a leader, it wouldbe important to make it known
that you see your employee, youknow, in a safe space, not like
hey, you're anxious, get ittogether. But hey, I'm noticing,
you know, there's somethingdifferent What's going on? How
can I help just asking, How canI help sometimes it's just
knowing that you have thesupport is enough for someone to
(13:04):
be able to get back into theheadspace that they need to be
in.
Dr. D. (13:09):
Yeah, it's interesting because it is really a catch 22,
because your most engagedemployees, the ones that are
most dedicated, they're the onesthat you have to pry away from
the office and say, hey, go takesome time off. When I am really
into work. And I am thinkingabout all the things that I have
to do, I almost build up a levelof stress about taking time off
(13:31):
all this stuff that I have to doI have to get done before I go I
know I'm going to have a lot ofstuff to do when I get back that
can create some stress in itsown right people can justify in
their own mind why it's soimportant for them to be there.
And it takes a good leader tosay look, we'll cover we want
you to take some time off, we'vegot a team you're very important
and you're important to the teambut you taking care of yourself
(13:51):
and taking a couple of weeks offand enjoying yourself and
recharging the batteries is justas important to me as you being
here it's performing your jobwill take care of it and we
don't we're gonna support youbecause we're gonna ask you to
support somebody else whenthey're going on vacation. So it
really is about a teamatmosphere. Sometimes people put
more stock in their own need tobe there than the organization.
Dr. K (14:13):
The thing is is that the more the more burnt out and
stressed out we get and nottaking care of ourselves, the
less we are able to produce forany organization or it's not
going to be even if we doproduce it, it may not be the
best product there are peopleout there that you know
unfortunately are not fortunateenough to be able to take
(14:34):
vacations or even three dayweekends. You know, it is
unfortunate and but it is thereand are those people I can only
imagine the level of stress orburnout that they you know,
possibly they may be feeling soit is important that when we do
have time off to really takethat time off. Seriously close
the computers, turn your emailsoff, turn your notifications off
(14:55):
so that you have whether it's anhour or five days. You can take
That time to decompress. Whenyou come back to something after
giving your your brain and youremotions and everything a chance
to decompress. You can seewhatever situation that you are
dealing with whatever projectyou're dealing with whatever
team member you're dealing with,you can come to it with a very
(15:16):
different mindset, a verydifferent, you, you look at it
very differently because you'vehad a chance to step away.
Dr. D. (15:22):
I call that respecting the sanctity of time away. When
a team member is off onvacation, there's a tendency for
people to want to work whenothers are working. In today's
environment, business ishappening all the time. So it's
really easy to get sucked intothe routine of checking emails
in the evening or checkingemails on the Sunday, you have
to plan for time away. If you'regoing to take a two week
(15:43):
vacation or a week vacationtwice a year or three weeks, or
however you decide and plan totake your time off, it needs to
be recognized that you are away.
And when your team members havethe same thing lead by example,
demonstrate the same respect fortheir time away that you would
hope for in your time away. NowI think one of the challenges
that happens in business isthere's a level I'm going to
(16:04):
call it ego a level of selfimportance that I'm so important
to my business function that ifI leave for a week or two, the
world's gonna fall apart. It'snot that's arrogance, there is
zero humility in that and thevery best leaders build it an
environment where there'sredundancy in work, if I as a
leader have to be there,24-seven, then I'm failing as a
leader, if I'm a successfulleader, I'm building an
(16:27):
environment where the machinecan run and I'm tending the
environment. And I can step awayfor a week or two. And the
machine will continue to runthat I've built the right
infrastructure and supportaround me that my stepping away
doesn't cripple the business andis even more important for my
team. If I have built the teamin the right way any one person
can step away or two people canstep away and take a vacation
(16:49):
and the machine will continue torun efficiently. Of course, when
that person is on vacation oraway, we're going to miss them
terribly and want them to comeback. But we also want them to
stay with us for the long haul.
Dr. K (17:01):
I want to make sure that I point this out that sometimes
the stress that we feel whenwe're at work isn't always work
stress. Sometimes that's ourgetaway. Like there have been
times in my life where I'm sograteful to go to work because
everything else in my life seemslike it's crashing and burning.
So I'm like, Oh my gosh, yeah, Iget to go to work, I don't have
to think about it. You know, thestress can be coming from
multiple avenues. And thendealing with them the best way
that you know how if that meansreaching out to your friend and
(17:24):
having a you know, a complaintsession, go for it. If that
means reaching out to a mentalhealth provider, go for it.
There's nothing wrong withpaying someone to listen to you
who objectively wants to guideyou help you or be there for
you. There's nothing wrong withthat. And for a organization
itself, if you are starting tonotice that there is a lot of
(17:45):
stress within you know, yourteam or individuals get someone
to come in and help or say, Hey,we're taking the day off, you
know, we're not doing we'regonna have a fun day on a team
building day. But we're gonnahave a fun day because a lot of
times, that's even morestressful for the team building
days, you know, but as theleader in the organization, you
have to look for that. Let'shave a half day and do a really
nice lunch and no more workafter that so that people have a
(18:08):
chance to kind of just turntheir brains off.
Dr. D. (18:10):
Yes, that is one of the nicest surprises that you can do
for a team if your businessallows it is to say, hey, let's
go go eat some lunch and thenlet people go home after on a
Friday. It's always such a nicesurprise. It lifts people
spirits, if you don't email andtext them with a million things
over the weekend in theyactually enjoy it. That's a
really big deal. Giving peoplesurprise time off is always a
(18:32):
bonus but at least respect theirtime away. There is no one that
is so important that they can'tbe given some time to to do
their own thing and rechargetheir batteries. And you should
insist that they do.
Dr. K (18:43):
So Dr. D. How can leaders prepare for stress and burnout
within their teams?
Dr. D. (18:47):
Well, I think preparing is the most important part, make
a plan, stick to it and ensurethat your team has a plan and
make them stick to it. Makestress check part of your
regular check ins with your teamas you're talking to colleagues
and your team members. Ask themhow are you doing? Are you
feeling stressed out? What can Ido to help alleviate the stress?
When is your next vacation planif it's not planned, get it on
(19:07):
the books. When they do taketime off. Respect the sanctity
of that time off for bothyourself and for your team. Make
sure you have a plan so thatwhen you're away, you're not
stressed out and thinking aboutwork and really give yourself
the opportunity to relax. Do thesame for your team. be candid
with those people who do need abreak. If you see people on the
team that haven't taken time offin an extended period of time
(19:27):
insist that they do make sureyou have that conversation and
say we'll have it covered takesome time off. There's no
obligation for them to be there.
From your perspective, set it inyour culture that it's expected
that they take some time andkeeping yourself in your team
energized keeps engagement highwhen you need it by giving
people breaks to alleviatestress. When those really
stressful times come people willbe prepared because what's good
(19:48):
for your team is good for yourmission. So with that, Dr. King,
what's on tap for next week.
Dr. K (19:54):
Well next week we will be talking about emotional
intelligence is it really asimportant in leader And is it
innate to a person'spersonality? Or can it be a
developed leadership trait?
Dr. D. (20:06):
Excellent, emotional intelligence. You know, it
really has gained a lot oftraction in both the psychology
literature and in organizationaldevelopment. And there are a lot
of folks out there that say it'snot a real thing. It's
psychology du Jour , but we'llget into...
Dr. K (20:19):
...it's just one more thing to throw into the mix.
Dr. D. (20:22):
Exactly. It's one more thing for consultants to sell.
But you know, we'll get intothat in more detail next week
for all of you. Thank you forjoining us on this journey to
the realm. Thank you so much.
I'm Dr. D.
Dr. K (20:35):
And I'm Dr. K and we are looking forward to your next
visit to the Executive Realm.
Hello and welcome to the realm. I'm Dr. D. I bring this
strategy
Dr. K (00:06):
and I'm Dr. K, I bring the psychology we are business
psychologist and your guides tothe executive route where we
bring strategy and psychologytogether,
Dr. D. (00:15):
so you can bring your best to your C-suite, your teams
and your customers. Today we'retalking about stress and
burnout, why it sneaks up onpeople and creates more havoc
than you realize. So let's getto work. Dr. K, welcome back
from your week away. I know youtook a great vacation, went
international, spent some timeon the beach and enjoyed your
(00:37):
time. Since our topic is stressand burnout, and you are now
back from a stress relievingvacation... How did your
vacation play into that stressand burnout that you might have
been feeling?
Dr. K (00:48):
It's interesting, I knew that I needed to take a break, I
needed a vacation, it did notbecome apparent until my first
day I arrived. It took me thewhole day to get into a place of
Hey, you're not working paid.
You don't have to think aboutanything but relaxing. And
that's when I realized howstressed and turned out I had
become despite the fact that Iwas still on point with my
(01:11):
clients there with them everystep of the way. My own personal
self care and recognition that Ineeded a break was not apparent
at all. So the fact that it tookme a day to get to a place where
I can relax shoulders away frommy ears, you know, I was one of
the best night's sleep I've hadin an extended period of time it
was it's that made me recognizeI need to take more time or at
(01:35):
least be more conscientious ofthe fact that distress is now
leading to the burnout.
Dr. D. (01:42):
As somebody who finds stress kind of empowering
myself, right, I work well underdeadlines. I like to have a lot
of things going on. There'sthere's good stress, and there's
bad Stress, Stress is generallyconsidered not great. But there
is something called us stress,which is kind of like euphoria,
technical term thatpsychologists use for the good
stress in your life. And it'snecessary, but anything that is
(02:05):
good, that is overused canbecome a bad thing.
Dr. K (02:09):
Yeah, absolutely. And I can be the same way. You know,
there's been times in my lifewhere it's been school and work
and whether it was you know, asignificant other or when I was
in high school, it was playingsports. And it would be a charge
to have all of these things thatI needed to get done for me at
times, if I don't have a lot onmy plate, I actually slack off
(02:30):
more However, when there's a loton my plate, and those things
are not getting completed or notprogressing, moving forward or
improving. If something needs toimprove, that's when it becomes
the bad stress. That's when it'sno longer a motivation.
Dr. D. (02:44):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And there's always
stress that you put on yourselfwhere you put something off for
too long, or you'd be updeadlines, there are a lot of
areas where you can drive yourown stress. And then of course,
there's all those externalstressors coming out of a year
of quarantine, all the changethat caused a lot of stress for
a lot of folks. And it was adifficult time, it created a lot
(03:07):
of inner turmoil driven byexternal forces. It's that
external stress that when youbuild up a high level of
internal self motivating stress,and then you have some external
stressors piled on like thedeath of a loved one, family
stress, or all of those thingsthat can throw you for a loop,
it can push you over that edge,and you don't necessarily
(03:28):
realize can overwhelm you andyou're in your stress load,
you're already so bound up inthe stressors of day to day
life, that those extra things,they put you over the edge, but
you don't necessarily realizethat they've put you over the
edge that that's when you kindof lose control of where you are
in reality and really lose trackof your capability and your
(03:49):
ability in the world.
Dr. K (03:50):
Absolutely. And stress.
You know, it's the temporarystress pushes us out of our
comfort zone. It's good becauseit can help us to grow it can
help us to learn and we thenachieve a certain goal that we
are striving for. So in thataspect, the temporary stress is
great. And within the comfortzone, we don't like to be pushed
out of our comfort zone. Butthen that comfort zone arena
(04:11):
changes the parameters aroundthe comfort zone changes,
whether it gets larger, getssmaller or disappears, where
we're just like, Oh, this isgreat. I can always change and
try new things. It's when thosestressors start piling on and
they never get resolved or andespecially with the external
stressors because our internalstressors we can improve for
(04:32):
ourselves. But externalstressors such as a boss that's
always harping on someone or youknow does not have any
interpersonal skills. That is astress that we can't really
typically do a lot about becauseit is on someone else. So when
those stressors start to build,that's when that burnout comes
and there is a differencebetween stress and burnout.
(04:53):
Oftentimes they are usedinterchangeably, but with the
burnout, the long term negativestate That we are in which leads
to emotional exhaustion,physical fatigue, oftentimes a
cognitive weariness, we're moreexhausted in our brains were
difficulty focusing, you know,inability to concentrate, get
things done. That's where thephysical effects come into play.
(05:16):
And burnout has been researchedto lead into depression if it
does not get fixed, becauseremember, the difference between
the stress and burnout is thatburnout is a long term effect.
Dr. D. (05:29):
I recall from one of our early conversations, we talked
about acute stress disorder andhow you don't necessarily
recognize the symptoms of acutestress doesn't necessarily come
on. And while you're understress, it's after the stress
alleviates that you can fallinto the symptoms of acute
stress. And if you don't recoverquickly, that can turn into
PTSD. Or there are really threedifferent kinds of stressors
(05:53):
that lead into the day to daylife. There's the stress that we
put on ourselves that we use toenergize ourselves and motivate
ourselves, but also just fromour behaviors and actions. There
are those short term externalstressors of deadlines and
things that pop out of nowheredeath in the family I mentioned.
But then there's also those longterm stressors, as you said, a
boss that maybe harps on youincessantly. And that's you're
(06:15):
working somewhere for years, andpeople live with money, stress,
financial stress, having to carefor a loved one, everyone's
family dynamic and familysituation brings a different
level and a different amount ofstress into their life. And
people also have differentcoping mechanisms for dealing
with stress. Some people dressis not a big deal, they can deal
with it, they internalize it,and then they let it go, it
(06:36):
rolls off their back. And thenthere are some people that hold
on to that like precious jewelinside their chest that they
just can't quite let go of. Andyou know, as a therapist
yourself, I'm sure you see amuch wider array of how people
internalize and deal with stressexternally in your in your
clinical practice.
Dr. K (06:54):
It's acute stress, or it's just like an immediate
short term stress, an increasein anxiety, overthinking
ruminating thoughts, maybestarting to have some nights
where there's difficultysleeping, you're stressed out.
So maybe you skip a lunch orsomething like that. And those
are always signs that whenclients and I are working
together that I will try to findout well how do you know you're
(07:15):
stressed what's going on, and westart finding ways to improve
them so that it doesn't turninto something more, it's
recognizing the signs at workthat you are starting to stress
and or become burned out. Andone of the biggest ones is is
that you dread going to work.
But if every time you're drivinginto work, you're starting to
have anxiety or panic attack,you get upset stomach, you have
a headache all throughout yourday at work, muscle tension,
(07:37):
unable to relax, those are signsthat there is something usually
that's a good sign that, okay,I'm either extremely stressed
out, or I'm becoming burned out.
Dr. D. (07:47):
Everybody has times in their life when they don't want
to get out of bed and they justdon't feel like going into work.
And it happens to everybody. Andsome people don't feel like
they're in a position to changetheir work state. They don't
feel like they're feeling somesense of obligation that keeps
them in a job or in a role orfeel like they have a lack of
options available to them. Andthat's another form of stress.
People don't necessarily have alot of comfort dealing with
(08:11):
themselves.
Dr. K (08:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Especially if it's somethingthat's ongoing. You know, you
know, a lot of times people willbe like, yeah, I never get
swore, you know, they get to aplace where they're, you know,
where they think, well, whenthey're getting sick a lot, oh,
well, it's just, you know, myimmune systems down or I don't
want to hang out with peopleisolation is a big one as well.
And we start justifying thewarning signs, we justify why
(08:33):
they're happening instead ofgoing, Okay, this is why they're
happening, how do I fix it, weget into a negative mindset that
these things aren't fixable
Dr. D. (08:43):
I've had a really long commute through really tough
traffic, you become really usedto it, it's the only analogy
that I can think of that I canreally relate to, you become
used to it. While the trafficwas miserable, the first few
weeks that I was driving, Ibecame acclimated, and it wasn't
until after I moved or I changedjobs that I felt that sense of
burden lift that I didn't evenrealize I was accommodating in
(09:05):
my life and how life changingsome of those things weren't.
And I have to believe that manypeople who have to adapt by
working from home and with thelack of commute and working from
home lifted a lot of stressorsoff of people, but it also added
a different dynamic, a differentset of stress.
Dr. K (09:22):
You know, it's being honest and real with yourself
saying, Okay, I'm stressed outwhat do I need to do? Or I'm
burnt out and it's finding waysto deal with that. Because you
know, as I said earlier, ifyou're if you're stressing out
and we don't take care of thosethat can lead has a possibility
of leading into the burnout. Andthen if you're burnt out and
that lasts an extended period oftime that has potential of
(09:43):
leading to you know, either ashort term episode of depression
or chronic depression, and thenthat's just a whole nother set
of issues and problems that onehas to work through when they
already aren't feeling good.
Dr. D. (09:56):
And that's only exacerbated, I imagine, by
people who already have Somemental health issues that
they're working through, likedepression or anxiety, dealing
with mental health issues alone,I imagine are probably pretty
stressful.
Dr. K (10:09):
Absolutely any form of mental health issues. Sometimes
they think that that's all theyare. But that's not true. That's
just one piece of the pie. Youare someone that is suffering
from depression, but you're notjust a walking depression.
Dr. D. (10:23):
I often will say, it's just one piece of your puzzle.
It's not the whole puzzle. It'sjust one piece.
That's really insightful. Dr. K,
Dr. K (10:29):
I try, I try.
Dr. D. (10:30):
We've talked a lot about the psychology of stress and
burnout, let's talk about howthat relates at work, obviously,
when you have to recognize yourown level of stress. And you
have to recognize how to takecare of yourself so that you can
bring your best self as we sayto your C suite, your teams and
your customers. But part ofbeing a leader, part of being an
(10:51):
executive is setting the righttone and the right culture
within your organization. To getthe best out of your business.
To be able to really live yourmission, you have to make sure
that you have high functioningwell, performing teams, making
sure that people don't feel sochained to their work that they
can take some time off andhaving a plan for people to take
time off monitoring your teamsto make sure you're picking up
(11:14):
if you have team members thatare approaching those signs of
burnout and stress that theymight not recognize themselves
intervening, and stepping in andbeing a part of the solution for
your team and not just trustingthat if they need time off,
they'll ask you when they'reready. If you develop a culture
where people are really engagedand really enjoy being at work
(11:34):
that can be overdone, and thatcould lead to stress and
burnout. So you really as acultivator of your culture, an
enabler of your mission and yourteam, you have to always be on
the lookout for where people arestressed and insist on people
taking time off finding ways forintroducing levity and periods
of mental relaxation in yourteam so that they can refocus
(11:56):
and re energize and stayenergized.
Dr. K (11:58):
Absolutely. And to piggyback on that you provide
that safe space for youremployees where they feel that
they are able to come to you andsay, Hey, I'm really stressed,
I'm really burned out, that'sgoing to create a culture that's
going to make people want tostay make people want to do
more. And as a leader, it wouldbe important if you are noticing
(12:19):
that someone is out of control.
And I don't mean that they'refreaking out, but out of control
where everything needs to be intheir control. Because when
we're stressed or anxious,sometimes we go into more of a
control mode, because that wefeel safer that way, as a
leader, it's time to walk up towhoever that person is, and be
like, hey, how can I help? Whodo we need to delegate this to
what's going on? You know, I Youseem to be more anxious, you
(12:42):
seem to be more nervous, youknow, and recognizing those
signs. And as a leader, it wouldbe important to make it known
that you see your employee, youknow, in a safe space, not like
hey, you're anxious, get ittogether. But hey, I'm noticing,
you know, there's somethingdifferent What's going on? How
can I help just asking, How canI help sometimes it's just
knowing that you have thesupport is enough for someone to
(13:04):
be able to get back into theheadspace that they need to be
in.
Dr. D. (13:09):
Yeah, it's interesting because it is really a catch 22,
because your most engagedemployees, the ones that are
most dedicated, they're the onesthat you have to pry away from
the office and say, hey, go takesome time off. When I am really
into work. And I am thinkingabout all the things that I have
to do, I almost build up a levelof stress about taking time off
(13:31):
all this stuff that I have to doI have to get done before I go I
know I'm going to have a lot ofstuff to do when I get back that
can create some stress in itsown right people can justify in
their own mind why it's soimportant for them to be there.
And it takes a good leader tosay look, we'll cover we want
you to take some time off, we'vegot a team you're very important
and you're important to the teambut you taking care of yourself
(13:51):
and taking a couple of weeks offand enjoying yourself and
recharging the batteries is justas important to me as you being
here it's performing your jobwill take care of it and we
don't we're gonna support youbecause we're gonna ask you to
support somebody else whenthey're going on vacation. So it
really is about a teamatmosphere. Sometimes people put
more stock in their own need tobe there than the organization.
Dr. K (14:13):
The thing is is that the more the more burnt out and
stressed out we get and nottaking care of ourselves, the
less we are able to produce forany organization or it's not
going to be even if we doproduce it, it may not be the
best product there are peopleout there that you know
unfortunately are not fortunateenough to be able to take
(14:34):
vacations or even three dayweekends. You know, it is
unfortunate and but it is thereand are those people I can only
imagine the level of stress orburnout that they you know,
possibly they may be feeling soit is important that when we do
have time off to really takethat time off. Seriously close
the computers, turn your emailsoff, turn your notifications off
(14:55):
so that you have whether it's anhour or five days. You can take
That time to decompress. Whenyou come back to something after
giving your your brain and youremotions and everything a chance
to decompress. You can seewhatever situation that you are
dealing with whatever projectyou're dealing with whatever
team member you're dealing with,you can come to it with a very
(15:16):
different mindset, a verydifferent, you, you look at it
very differently because you'vehad a chance to step away.
Dr. D. (15:22):
I call that respecting the sanctity of time away. When
a team member is off onvacation, there's a tendency for
people to want to work whenothers are working. In today's
environment, business ishappening all the time. So it's
really easy to get sucked intothe routine of checking emails
in the evening or checkingemails on the Sunday, you have
to plan for time away. If you'regoing to take a two week
(15:43):
vacation or a week vacationtwice a year or three weeks, or
however you decide and plan totake your time off, it needs to
be recognized that you are away.
And when your team members havethe same thing lead by example,
demonstrate the same respect fortheir time away that you would
hope for in your time away. NowI think one of the challenges
that happens in business isthere's a level I'm going to
(16:04):
call it ego a level of selfimportance that I'm so important
to my business function that ifI leave for a week or two, the
world's gonna fall apart. It'snot that's arrogance, there is
zero humility in that and thevery best leaders build it an
environment where there'sredundancy in work, if I as a
leader have to be there,24-seven, then I'm failing as a
leader, if I'm a successfulleader, I'm building an
(16:27):
environment where the machinecan run and I'm tending the
environment. And I can step awayfor a week or two. And the
machine will continue to runthat I've built the right
infrastructure and supportaround me that my stepping away
doesn't cripple the business andis even more important for my
team. If I have built the teamin the right way any one person
can step away or two people canstep away and take a vacation
(16:49):
and the machine will continue torun efficiently. Of course, when
that person is on vacation oraway, we're going to miss them
terribly and want them to comeback. But we also want them to
stay with us for the long haul.
Dr. K (17:01):
I want to make sure that I point this out that sometimes
the stress that we feel whenwe're at work isn't always work
stress. Sometimes that's ourgetaway. Like there have been
times in my life where I'm sograteful to go to work because
everything else in my life seemslike it's crashing and burning.
So I'm like, Oh my gosh, yeah, Iget to go to work, I don't have
to think about it. You know, thestress can be coming from
multiple avenues. And thendealing with them the best way
that you know how if that meansreaching out to your friend and
(17:24):
having a you know, a complaintsession, go for it. If that
means reaching out to a mentalhealth provider, go for it.
There's nothing wrong withpaying someone to listen to you
who objectively wants to guideyou help you or be there for
you. There's nothing wrong withthat. And for a organization
itself, if you are starting tonotice that there is a lot of
(17:45):
stress within you know, yourteam or individuals get someone
to come in and help or say, Hey,we're taking the day off, you
know, we're not doing we'regonna have a fun day on a team
building day. But we're gonnahave a fun day because a lot of
times, that's even morestressful for the team building
days, you know, but as theleader in the organization, you
have to look for that. Let'shave a half day and do a really
nice lunch and no more workafter that so that people have a
(18:08):
chance to kind of just turntheir brains off.
Dr. D. (18:10):
Yes, that is one of the nicest surprises that you can do
for a team if your businessallows it is to say, hey, let's
go go eat some lunch and thenlet people go home after on a
Friday. It's always such a nicesurprise. It lifts people
spirits, if you don't email andtext them with a million things
over the weekend in theyactually enjoy it. That's a
really big deal. Giving peoplesurprise time off is always a
(18:32):
bonus but at least respect theirtime away. There is no one that
is so important that they can'tbe given some time to to do
their own thing and rechargetheir batteries. And you should
insist that they do.
Dr. K (18:43):
So Dr. D. How can leaders prepare for stress and burnout
within their teams?
Dr. D. (18:47):
Well, I think preparing is the most important part, make
a plan, stick to it and ensurethat your team has a plan and
make them stick to it. Makestress check part of your
regular check ins with your teamas you're talking to colleagues
and your team members. Ask themhow are you doing? Are you
feeling stressed out? What can Ido to help alleviate the stress?
When is your next vacation planif it's not planned, get it on
(19:07):
the books. When they do taketime off. Respect the sanctity
of that time off for bothyourself and for your team. Make
sure you have a plan so thatwhen you're away, you're not
stressed out and thinking aboutwork and really give yourself
the opportunity to relax. Do thesame for your team. be candid
with those people who do need abreak. If you see people on the
team that haven't taken time offin an extended period of time
(19:27):
insist that they do make sureyou have that conversation and
say we'll have it covered takesome time off. There's no
obligation for them to be there.
From your perspective, set it inyour culture that it's expected
that they take some time andkeeping yourself in your team
energized keeps engagement highwhen you need it by giving
people breaks to alleviatestress. When those really
stressful times come people willbe prepared because what's good
(19:48):
for your team is good for yourmission. So with that, Dr. King,
what's on tap for next week.
Dr. K (19:54):
Well next week we will be talking about emotional
intelligence is it really asimportant in leader And is it
innate to a person'spersonality? Or can it be a
developed leadership trait?
Dr. D. (20:06):
Excellent, emotional intelligence. You know, it
really has gained a lot oftraction in both the psychology
literature and in organizationaldevelopment. And there are a lot
of folks out there that say it'snot a real thing. It's
psychology du Jour , but we'llget into...
Dr. K (20:19):
...it's just one more thing to throw into the mix.
Dr. D. (20:22):
Exactly. It's one more thing for consultants to sell.
But you know, we'll get intothat in more detail next week
for all of you. Thank you forjoining us on this journey to
the realm. Thank you so much.
I'm Dr. D.
Dr. K (20:35):
And I'm Dr. K and we are looking forward to your next
visit to the Executive Realm.
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