November 25, 2024 • 36 mins
What if a simple shift in perspective could turn your life from scarcity to abundance? Join us as we uncover the incredible power of gratitude with insights from our guests, Shelley Shepard and Heather Drake. Through spiritual texts, studies, and poetry, we explore how gratitude not only aligns us with promises of abundance but also enhances our mental and physical well-being. Our conversation is an invitation to embrace gratitude as a daily practice, nurturing deeper connections with ourselves, those around us, and the divine.
Gratitude connects us physically to the world and enriches our spiritual experiences, especially during significant times like Advent. We discuss how it bridges the gap between the food on our table and the people who make it possible. The concept of Dayenu from Jewish tradition reminds us to appreciate what we have, fostering a holistic outlook on life that acknowledges both joy and suffering. By adopting a thankful posture, we find renewal, recognizing the love behind every good thing, and choose to see the goodness around us despite challenges.
In a world fraught with adversity, finding gratitude can be transformative. We share a poignant story of a friend who honors gratitude through creating natural altars, proving that it transcends words, especially in moments of pain and trauma. The resilience of the human spirit shines through as we confront societal and environmental challenges, finding moments of appreciation amidst adversity. Supported by studies on its positive effects on longevity, gratitude is highlighted as an essential practice for embracing life’s complexities, offering hope and healing within a supportive community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Expansionist Podcast with
Shelley Shepard and HeatherDrake.
In each episode, we dive deepinto conversations that
challenge conventional thinking,amplify diverse voices and
foster a community grounded inwisdom, spirit and love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello Heather Drake.
How are you today?
Hello?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Shelley Shepard I'm well, thank you.
How are you, sheldon Shepard?
I am well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
How are you?
I'm doing well.
I am so grateful for this timewith you today that we have to
just share our hearts withothers about this deep, abiding
space of giving thanks, thispractice that we both love so
much in our lives and in ourspiritual capacity.
(00:46):
On Sunday, you shared in yourmessage a quote, and I'm quoting
this gratitude turns what wehave into enough, and I think
that that is this expansiveplace that we want to talk about
(01:07):
today and what that means.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm certainly not the first person to ever say that
or to think like that, but Ithink that those particular
words draw us to the remembranceor to the acknowledgement that
very often the miracle that weare looking for, or the
resurrection that we need, is ashift in our perspective.
Sometimes the things, the verythings that are in our hands,
(01:35):
can miraculously turn intosomething else when we change
perspective.
And I think that is the path orthat is the way that gratitude
leads us into abundance.
When, in whatever circumstancewe are in, we find ourselves
lacking, there has to be somekind of perception that is
needed, because the promise ofabundance comes from spirit that
(01:59):
in this beautiful world thatGod created that there would be
enough.
And again we hear this echoedin the Second Testament.
In my father's mansions are many.
There's rooms.
Jesus says this to us.
You know he has the cattle on athousand hills.
There's gold and silver in allthe things.
If you have no money, come andeat, come and buy.
The table is heaped up like afeast.
(02:20):
There's all these images ofabundance.
And when we find ourselvesthinking from a position of
scarcity or lack, what we needis the miraculous change of
perspective, and I think that,or I found that the practice of
gratitude is that miracle.
Is that?
What do I have that I canchange the way that I'm looking
(02:42):
at?
I also am reminded in the firsttestament, where there's an
angel that shows up with amessage to someone and says
what's in your hand?
I'm waiting for something else,but what is actually in your
hand?
I think gratitude shows us thegoodness of what is actually in
our hand.
So that was a long way aroundto say yes, we love to talk
about gratitude and the practiceis thankfulness.
(03:06):
Gratefulness In our calendaryear, thanksgiving is here upon
us, but it has to be for thereal kind of life that you and I
are talking about orendeavoring to live.
Gratitude has to be a practicethat expands us, that stretches
us and that brings us into areality that is more aligned
(03:27):
with the kingdom that ispromised to us now.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yes that's beautiful.
I was lingering with a thought.
The other day.
I ran into this research.
It was a longitudinal studythat was done on.
It was a longitudinal studythat was done on I don't know
how long ago it was, I didn'tread all the details either.
Practiced gratitude, practicedgratitude, journaling.
(03:50):
Practiced, a way of enveloping,you know, a place of thanks.
(04:29):
No, 31% had a.
Out of these 180 nuns, 31% weremore positive and had higher
levels of energy, lessinflammation.
I mean, the study was just, itwas very deep and wide 31% and
(04:54):
the ones who did not practicehad higher levels of
inflammation, sadness,depression, oppression.
And I came away from thatthinking about this simple act
of practicing gratitude, thesimple act of writing a
gratitude journal, or just atthe end of the day, examining
(05:18):
what it is that I'm grateful for, that happened.
If I just have to pick onething out and wow, I was
grateful that when I went to therefrigerator there was milk and
I didn't have to go to thegrocery store.
Whatever it is, this scientific, emotional, psychological space
(05:39):
in our bodies is relieved whenwe give thanks, and I know we
have this poem that how I Liveand why that we're going to
share here.
I think this is a good place,these kinds of things that
people are practicing that givethem the resistance right and
(06:04):
the assistance to hope sometimesis as simple as just writing it
down and remembering what we'regrateful for.
But share with us what thispoem, how I Live and why, by the
Reverend Dr Ala Renee Bozarththat we have come upon as well.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
There's something really holy about poetry to me,
and I think that part of it is alarge part of our sacred text
as followers of Jesus is poetry,and there's something very
expansive about the language,something very inclusive about
the language.
But there's also somethingthat's very I use the word
soulish intentionally becausesometimes I think we get very
(06:44):
caught up in like our mind orour thoughts and if we forget to
listen to our soul's longing orthe voice of our soul, I think
sometimes poetry can kind ofremind us that there is a deeper
listening that we're invitedinto.
But how I live and why?
Because I know that spiritmatters itself lavishly into the
(07:11):
universe.
I am committed to packing a lotof living into a little life.
Some call this ecstasy, I callit love.
Love's favorite word is thanks.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Isn't that beautiful.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh, it's just, it makes you well, it makes me,
anyway, feel like I want torevel in that.
I want thanks to be thelanguage or the vocabulary of
all the love that I feel for theworld, for myself, for God, for
the beloveds that are allaround us.
But thanks, that thank you.
(07:51):
When I hear that love'sfavorite word is thanks, I'm
reminded of how much dignitysaying thanks for something can
give to something.
To say thank you to you know,to the universe, to God who puts
food on our table, but beingaware and saying thank you to
the farmers who have farmed it.
(08:11):
There's a place in our livesthat we can give dignity to all
kinds of things by justrecognizing that there is a
thank you that can be offered.
Our family the other day hadcome in and our dog, large dog,
came right with us and someonein the family I don't remember
(08:32):
one of the children said Luna,thank you that you come with us.
When we come, we don't have tocall you.
And I was thinking about justwhat saying thank you does.
First of all, it unifies us, butthen it also reminds us of good
that is all around us and I,absolutely I, want to pack as
(08:53):
much living into one life as wecan.
I want to savor every bit of it.
I want to drink the wine, Iwant to love the love, I want to
see people, I want to be inplaces, I want to smell
beautiful things, I want to hearthe poetry, I want to sing the
songs, I want to go to themuseums, I want all of the
goodness, and I thinkThanksgiving is how we get there
(09:16):
that we would pay attention tothat.
One of the things that I amconfident in is that it connects
us to our source, and oursource is God, and to say thank
you reminds us that love is oursource, that we are being cared
for, that hope is coming for us,that there is good in store for
(09:39):
us, and so I'm so inspired bythat, by the practice, and I
think that we stir each other up, that we remind each other.
When we say thank you forsomething, it reminds someone
else that they can say thank youfor something.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yes, yes, and I love the beginning of this piece
because I know that spiritmatters itself lavishly into the
universe.
Not just a little bit, you know.
Yes, not just one time.
Yes, right, but there's this on, and it reminds us of the
abundance, yes, the ongoingnessof this understanding, and so
(10:14):
I've been holding these thoughtsthis, uh, this week, as we
prepare for the thanksgivingholiday, in one hand.
In the other hand, uh, I wantus to talk just for a few
minutes about what it is feelinglike, what you're hearing as a
pastor or as a friend, or from ahearts where, you know, I just
(10:38):
don't have anything to givethanks for right now.
I just feel despondent, I feeldepressed, I feel oppressed, I
feel like nothing that I domakes a difference.
Let's talk about thatintersection of our lives, where
we are, what we're hearingother people say right now and
(10:59):
what we might offer as a word,maybe in one of these pieces or
just from our own hearts.
How gratitude, gratefulness,giving thanks.
These practices are consistentthings in our lives, but they're
(11:22):
not always easy.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I think part of the reason why it's not always easy
is because I think our ego isopposed to thanksgiving,
thankfulness, gratefulness.
Somehow I think that our egohas told us that we have earned
the good in our life, like thatwhat we have is because we have
(11:49):
made the right choices, or thisis because I worked hard, or
because I I choose this asopposed to remembering that love
is the source of it all, thatthere is abundance there, and
thanksgiving or giving thanks ormindful practices or
gratefulness really kind ofrealigns us, I think, with our
(12:11):
true selves, with the self thatknows that we have never been
separated from the goodness ofGod, from the love of Christ,
from the light that is eachother.
And I think that when we remindourselves there's good around
me, or when we dignify somethingor someone or some creature or
some soul with thankfulness,that again it puts us in a
(12:35):
community.
It takes us outside of thatsingleness and says you are part
of something and I love thatabout Thanksgiving for us.
It reminds us that we are notall alone.
In fact, it really stands inthe face of the lie that we've
done this by ourselves, thatthere is a good, beautiful world
(12:56):
that has offered herself on ourbehalf and that in the finding
of ways to be thankful in thepractices.
One of the things that I loveabout friendship is that we
often find how we can inspireeach other to what thankfulness
is, who is worthy ofthankfulness or where we give
(13:17):
thankfulness.
And again, I just think thatwhen we even practice
(13:38):
thankfulness in any communitythat we're in, it allows like a
very gentle, calming presence toit.
You know, like even if we're injust recently, in our landscape
, there've been a lot of heatedconversations and people are
very passionate about something,and I have been intentionally
(14:00):
trying to find places to connectwith people and I found it
harder and harder to find thatconnection sometimes, and so
what I've been able to say isI'm so thankful for your passion
, I'm so thankful for you beingable to articulate what is so
important to you.
I can't agree necessarily withyou on why you're passionate,
(14:23):
but that I can say thank you forsharing your passion with us.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That's a beautiful practice, a beautiful way to
think about.
You know, sometimes, when wehave to stretch ourselves to
find gratitude or to witness itor to observe it.
That's a beautiful way topractice it.
(14:50):
I think for myself what youjust spoke about, the ego, and I
wonder if, to tag onto that, ifthere's some kind of privilege
that we feel or that we're owed,or that we deserve this sort of
(15:11):
life that we have, and so we'renot as grateful, we're not as
aware of where the food camefrom, the immigrants that
actually are in places toprocure and procure the food to
us, to pack it, to ship it, todeliver it, yes, to bring it to
(15:34):
our tables, right, um, like, welike, there's this big space
between our refrigerator doorand the entrance into the
grocery store.
You know, that's all we see,that's all we experience, right,
like there's so much behind thegrocery store that we're not
(15:59):
grateful for, and so we'repreparing these huge places of
spread next week and meals andinviting people to eat that meal
, and sometimes Heather.
I even wonder if we have notobserved Thanksgiving, in light
of our brothers and sisters whohad to give up something for us
(16:22):
to experience Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, and can I also say to you that it's sometimes
our brothers and sisters didn'tgive it up.
Sometimes it was forcibly takenthat's what I'm saying From
them.
And so, yeah, right, so to beable to say that perhaps the
native Indians that were on thisland first did not give this up
, it was taken from themAbsolutely, and even before the
people group that was herebefore them, and so it's not so
(16:48):
much maybe an offering, as itwas a tax or it was something
was stolen.
But I think that it is where wecan center ourself now is to be
able to say, for this that Ihave, I see the sacrifice, or I
see the goodness that was giftedto the farmer who planted a
seed, see the goodness that wasgifted to the farmer who planted
(17:10):
a seed, to the person whoharvested that seed, to the
earth, who allowed the seed togerminate and grow and produce a
healthy vegetable or fruit thatI am experiencing now, that
will nourish my body, yes, yes,yes.
I think that gratitudepositions us in a place of
humility, not in a place ofscarcity or in a place where we
(17:30):
diminish ourselves, but torecognize that every good and
beautiful thing is offered to usfrom a loving father and this
eternal parent who said I willput you in this world and here
is where you'll work to thriveand work to call things.
I think it was Cummings whosaid gratitude amplifies
(17:53):
goodness.
It rescues us from negativeemotions and connects us in
meaningful ways.
We want to pause and take amoment and let you know how glad
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If you're enjoying this podcast, consider sharing it with a
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(18:15):
online community, visit ourwebsite at
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One of the things that GivingThanks does is really connect us
, and I think it does exactlywhat you said where it connects
us to maybe takes away the gapsbetween a refrigerator and the
farmer who, or the immigrant whohas picked it, or the people
(18:36):
who have, you know, worked hardso that we can eat.
But it's not just about thephysical things that we've eaten
, you know, I think about whatgratitude does.
When I even consider thatAdvent is coming and I listen to
the story of Advent and what itoffers to us, and then
thanksgiving, or thankfulnessthat arises from hearing the
story and going all of the womenwho gave themselves in
(19:00):
beautiful and powerful ways sothat I can have the light or the
illumination that I do now,that I can have the light or the
illumination that I do now.
I mean there is ways to liveour life constantly in the
practice of gratitude, whichwould be constantly in the
practice and in connection withdivine love.
I think that's such a whole anda holistic way of trying to
(19:21):
find our life.
It in no way means that wedon't acknowledge pain, that we
don't acknowledge suffering, butthat we acknowledge a greater
story, a greater magic, are-enchantment, something that
is bigger, that there is apromise that love is eternal and
that good things matter.
(19:43):
And I think that finding thebeauty, I think that gratitude
allows us to find beauty inthings and the practice of that
finding beauty, entrenchingourselves in beauty and being
aware of beauty, being gratefulfor beauty.
We were at an art museumrecently and I was so grateful
for all of the artists that hadcontributed.
I was thinking about just thescope of so many different
(20:06):
people who had given theirartwork so that we could stand
in front of it and be inspiredby it, be in awe of it.
But I know that art issomething that is a gift from
someone's soul and so not to betaken lightly.
And so there's so much hope inbeing able to say thank you to
(20:28):
each other in our most generouspractices and being a part of
family.
But to say thank you to theworld, to God, to the ocean that
continues her tides and hergifts every day, to the birds
that fly overhead, to the sunthat rises every morning and to
the moon, to the beautiful,beautiful moon who offers so
(20:51):
much.
And I, just I agree that thispractice can, it can be a method
of healing for us, it can berenewal, it can be a higher
perspective and it can betranscendent.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah Well, you just said like a whole week's worth
of thought in about threeminutes.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I get like a little wound up about this.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's just like wow, wow.
I want to take us back to thequote at the beginning gratitude
turns what we have into enough.
And it reminds me of thisHebrew word, which is a song
that is usually part of theJewish Passover, but the word is
(21:32):
the word is Dayenu, and itactually means it would have
been enough, and this is sungrepeatedly.
It has 15 stanzas in the entiresong, but it's broken down into
these categories the first fiveare leaving slavery, the next
(21:57):
five are miracles and the nextfive are being with God, and
each one is sung in unison.
And then they say Dayenubetween each stanza, which means
it would have been enough.
So I'm just going to read a fewof these.
I'm not going to read all 15.
(22:18):
Because I think it makes thepoint that sometimes we have to
remember what we're grateful for, right, we have to remember
where we were compared to wherewe are now, and I think this
particular piece does a greatjob of that.
(22:40):
And so the first stanza if hehad brought us out of Egypt,
dayenu.
If he had executed justice upontheir gods.
Dayenu.
If he had split the sea for us.
Dayenu.
If he had drowned ouroppressors.
Dayenu.
(23:01):
If he had fed us manna, dayenu.
If he had given us Shabbat,dayenu.
If he had led us to Mount Sinai, dayenu If he had brought us
into the land of Israel, dayenu.
If he built the temple for us,dayenu, it would have been
(23:24):
enough.
Like any of these things wouldhave been enough.
Like any of these things wouldhave been enough.
So this song is a reminder atPassover to remember what we're
grateful for.
This practice of understanding,of gratitude and gratefulness
and giving thanks is also aremembering posture and
sometimes remembering is its ownpractice because we forget.
(23:47):
We forget that you know,historically, the Native
Americans were here first.
But unless you're going to thatmuseum on a regular basis, we
forget, right.
And so we get here and we haveforgotten.
And so we get here and we haveforgotten, daino.
We have forgotten what youshared on Sunday.
(24:09):
That gratitude is simplylooking at what we have and
calling it enough like no moreis needed.
If we never were blessed withanything beyond where we are
right now, heather, daino, itwould have been enough.
It's just powerful, thispowerful place of understanding
of what that does to our bodies,our minds, our spirits, our
(24:33):
souls, our day-to-dayconversations with individuals
who sometimes, when we run intothem have very little to be
grateful for.
Let us remember.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yes, it would have been enough.
It is enough.
That is a beautiful posture forus to agree with the words that
remind us that every good thingwill be given to us because our
eternal parent loves us and hasgood for us.
You don't have to seek the goodfor yourself.
(25:05):
You know I, the Lord, havealready planned.
It is one of the things that theprophet said for us that there
is good in the world, and it isour choice to see the good.
There is an Old Testament versethat says that it's the glory
of God to hide a thing, and itis the glory of man to uncover
it.
(25:25):
And this beautiful thing ofgoing.
What does it look like for usto uncover all of the beauty,
all of the treasures, all of thegoodness that God has built
into the world?
What is it like for us to standand witness the tree?
What does it look like for usto stand and witness our brother
and sister and to see thegoodness of God in them, or to
see the work of Christ in them?
(25:47):
Maybe goodness has been alittle veiled in their life, but
where is the hope of sayingthat this other person that I
stand in front of also bears theimage of Christ?
And this hope that this practiceof giving thanks, of
recognizing the good, of callingit out, of recognizing the good
of calling it out, it offers tous a way out of pridefulness,
(26:18):
out of that judging things asnot being enough or not having
enough even to be able to bethankful for difficult places
Not, you know, I'm grateful forthe trauma, but to be able to
say you know, I'm grateful forthe healing that will come.
I'm grateful for the hope, thatis, that I have an awareness
that that is not okay or that isnot expected.
There's so many places for usthat allow us to integrate our
(26:42):
whole life with the practice ofthanksgiving, to allow the good
and the bad, to allow the lightand the dark, to allow the grace
.
That says that.
Where do I find the presence oflove in the middle of
everything, and how do I honorthat love?
I think one of the paths isgratitude.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, yeah, you and I believe that very strongly and
we practice that, and we mayeven know people who do not
practice it at all, who find itdifficult to be grateful.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Well, can we talk about that for a minute, because
I have a friend who has hadsignificant trauma, as many
people have, from the church andunderstands the practice of
gratitude, but really the wordsare thick in her mouth, she
can't get them out.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
right now, she's just in pain.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Right, a lot of pain, and I see that pain and honor
it and I'm hopeful that pain isnot all that she will know.
But right now she cannot saythank you because it just
doesn't feel sincere.
But she leaves a little.
Every time she's outside shemakes a little altar.
(27:59):
I watch her.
She's gathered a few stonestogether, a few leaves, a few
branches, and she makessomething lovely, little tiny
things.
It almost looks sometimes likea little fairy house or a little
altar table or it's arranged insuch a way.
And when I watch her do thatwhat my heart says is that is
(28:19):
the thank you that she is ableto express right now.
When words fail us, thank youis bigger than just our words.
It can be what we write, whatwe paint, how we live, what we
do.
And while our words are notexcluded from being thankful,
there may be a time in aperson's life where that is not
something that you say, but itcan be a life that you live of
(28:40):
gratitude.
It can be a holy ritual that youengage in that allows the world
to receive your gratitude, topay attention to the small and
beautiful and significant thingsthat are around us, just in
nature, that testify to us of aloving spirit that is still
(29:05):
hovering over the chaos that isstill creating and invites us to
co-create with the spirit andbring the kingdom, the kingdom
of love, the kingdom that Jesusoffered us, into the now.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, I appreciate that story and that insight
about your friend.
I think it's important,particularly maybe in our time
right now, where there are somany mixed emotions and feelings
about chaos in the world.
I'll just put it that way.
I feel like it's okay, like Iwant to say to people it's okay
(29:51):
If this Thanksgiving doesn'tfeel grateful or if you're in a
space where you can't seem, likeyou just said, to form the
words in your own mouth or tofind something in nature that
that inspires your heart or yourspirit, it's okay.
You know, I think part of ourcapacity as people that practice
(30:13):
this art and gift ofthanksgiving or giving thanks,
is to hold that bucket of sorrowand pain at times for people
that cannot utter the wordsright, and that is our gift to
the world in many ways.
(30:34):
And so you know, just to be, Ithink, completely honest with
myself, I know there's peoplethat are not in a space to give
thanks this week or next week ormaybe even next month, but here
we are, practicing it, teachingit, offering it.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yes, and one of the things that I would like to
remind people that are listeningis that's the beauty of
community, because sometimes,when I cannot utter the words,
someone else in my communitycame that's right.
They're at a different place inthe journey, and it does help us
to bring into remembrancethings that we should be
thankful for, the more thatwe're in a more diverse
(31:16):
community together.
It expands our ability to seethings to be grateful for or as
oppressive or as flawed, thateven in the recognizing of a
system that has failed us, of aperson that we can no longer
(31:52):
trust, that there is a beautythat can be held, even by
someone else, to recognize thatfor us and in our community, in
our practice of connection, ourcommunity, in our practice of
connection, in the hope thatcomes to us, in listening to our
soul, that I believe is full ofgratitude for the life that we
get to lead, for theopportunities that we're
(32:14):
afforded.
And I don't as much as I lovethe idea of a Pollyanna I mean
what a good story if you haven'tlooked it up.
I mean, definitely look up thatstory, how it changes someone's
life, to change your thoughtsabout something.
But gratitude has a uniquepower behind it.
I believe, again, we see thisin the practices of Jesus, who
is grateful, but in all theleaders who are wisdom leaders,
(32:38):
gratitude has a supremeimportance in our being able to
see things as they really are.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
One of the things in the longitudinal study of these
180 nuns is that those whopracticed some form of gratitude
writing it, speaking it,sharing it lived 15 years longer
than those who did not.
And just that alone, right likewow, yes here's a path to
(33:10):
longevity.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, yeah, incredible.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
And this beautiful incredible and what it exudes
right in that individual.
You know how it shows up ontheir face, or you know in how
they prepare a meal or in howthey, you know, take care of
their neighbor.
Whatever that gratitude, thatpractice of gratitude expands us
.
It spills from us into multipleways and spaces that we may not
(33:37):
even know that it's going.
But it's just a beautiful, it'sa beautiful practice and I hope
that we, as you know, women offaith and of spirit, continue to
share that and expand it withothers.
I know that there's anotherpiece that we want to, that we
want to read together and share.
(33:58):
I wonder if we, if we, couldtake turns reading this by WS
Mullen.
Maybe we could each take aparagraph.
Maybe you start and then I'llfollow.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Listen.
With the night falling, we aresaying thank you.
We are stopping on the bridgeto bow from the railings.
We are running out of the glassrooms with our mouths full of
food to look at the sky and saythank you.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We are standing by the water, looking out in
different directions directions,back from a series of hospitals
, back from a mugging afterfunerals.
We are saying thank you.
After the news of the dead,whether or not we knew them, we
(34:57):
are saying thank you In aculture up to its chin in shame,
living in the stench it haschosen, we are saying thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Over telephones.
We are saying thank you Indoorways and in the backs of
cars and in elevators,remembering wars and the police
at the back door and thebeatings on stairs.
We are saying thank you In thebanks that use us.
We are saying thank you Withthe crooks in office, with the
(35:32):
rich and the fashionable.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Unchanged, we are going on saying thank you thank
you With the animals dyingaround us, our lost feelings.
We are saying thank you withthe animals dying around us, our
lost feelings.
We are saying thank you withthe forests falling faster than
the minutes of our lives.
We are saying thank you withthe words going out like cells
(35:58):
of a brain, with the citiesgrowing over us like the earth.
We are saying thank you fasterand faster, with nobody
listening.
We are saying thank you Withnobody listening.
We are saying thank you.
(36:19):
We are saying thank you.
We are saying thank you andwaving dark though it is WS
Merwin.
Thank you, heather Drake, forthis time.
Thank you, shelley Shepard.
May gratefulness be among us aswe give thanks.
Welcome to the Expansionist Podcast with
Shelley Shepard and HeatherDrake.
In each episode, we dive deepinto conversations that
challenge conventional thinking,amplify diverse voices and
foster a community grounded inwisdom, spirit and love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello Heather Drake.
How are you today?
Hello?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Shelley Shepard I'm well, thank you.
How are you, sheldon Shepard?
I am well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
How are you?
I'm doing well.
I am so grateful for this timewith you today that we have to
just share our hearts withothers about this deep, abiding
space of giving thanks, thispractice that we both love so
much in our lives and in ourspiritual capacity.
(00:46):
On Sunday, you shared in yourmessage a quote, and I'm quoting
this gratitude turns what wehave into enough, and I think
that that is this expansiveplace that we want to talk about
(01:07):
today and what that means.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm certainly not the first person to ever say that
or to think like that, but Ithink that those particular
words draw us to the remembranceor to the acknowledgement that
very often the miracle that weare looking for, or the
resurrection that we need, is ashift in our perspective.
Sometimes the things, the verythings that are in our hands,
(01:35):
can miraculously turn intosomething else when we change
perspective.
And I think that is the path orthat is the way that gratitude
leads us into abundance.
When, in whatever circumstancewe are in, we find ourselves
lacking, there has to be somekind of perception that is
needed, because the promise ofabundance comes from spirit that
(01:59):
in this beautiful world thatGod created that there would be
enough.
And again we hear this echoedin the Second Testament.
In my father's mansions are many.
There's rooms.
Jesus says this to us.
You know he has the cattle on athousand hills.
There's gold and silver in allthe things.
If you have no money, come andeat, come and buy.
The table is heaped up like afeast.
(02:20):
There's all these images ofabundance.
And when we find ourselvesthinking from a position of
scarcity or lack, what we needis the miraculous change of
perspective, and I think that,or I found that the practice of
gratitude is that miracle.
Is that?
What do I have that I canchange the way that I'm looking
(02:42):
at?
I also am reminded in the firsttestament, where there's an
angel that shows up with amessage to someone and says
what's in your hand?
I'm waiting for something else,but what is actually in your
hand?
I think gratitude shows us thegoodness of what is actually in
our hand.
So that was a long way aroundto say yes, we love to talk
about gratitude and the practiceis thankfulness.
(03:06):
Gratefulness In our calendaryear, thanksgiving is here upon
us, but it has to be for thereal kind of life that you and I
are talking about orendeavoring to live.
Gratitude has to be a practicethat expands us, that stretches
us and that brings us into areality that is more aligned
(03:27):
with the kingdom that ispromised to us now.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yes that's beautiful.
I was lingering with a thought.
The other day.
I ran into this research.
It was a longitudinal studythat was done on.
It was a longitudinal studythat was done on I don't know
how long ago it was, I didn'tread all the details either.
Practiced gratitude, practicedgratitude, journaling.
(03:50):
Practiced, a way of enveloping,you know, a place of thanks.
(04:29):
No, 31% had a.
Out of these 180 nuns, 31% weremore positive and had higher
levels of energy, lessinflammation.
I mean, the study was just, itwas very deep and wide 31% and
(04:54):
the ones who did not practicehad higher levels of
inflammation, sadness,depression, oppression.
And I came away from thatthinking about this simple act
of practicing gratitude, thesimple act of writing a
gratitude journal, or just atthe end of the day, examining
(05:18):
what it is that I'm grateful for, that happened.
If I just have to pick onething out and wow, I was
grateful that when I went to therefrigerator there was milk and
I didn't have to go to thegrocery store.
Whatever it is, this scientific, emotional, psychological space
(05:39):
in our bodies is relieved whenwe give thanks, and I know we
have this poem that how I Liveand why that we're going to
share here.
I think this is a good place,these kinds of things that
people are practicing that givethem the resistance right and
(06:04):
the assistance to hope sometimesis as simple as just writing it
down and remembering what we'regrateful for.
But share with us what thispoem, how I Live and why, by the
Reverend Dr Ala Renee Bozarththat we have come upon as well.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
There's something really holy about poetry to me,
and I think that part of it is alarge part of our sacred text
as followers of Jesus is poetry,and there's something very
expansive about the language,something very inclusive about
the language.
But there's also somethingthat's very I use the word
soulish intentionally becausesometimes I think we get very
(06:44):
caught up in like our mind orour thoughts and if we forget to
listen to our soul's longing orthe voice of our soul, I think
sometimes poetry can kind ofremind us that there is a deeper
listening that we're invitedinto.
But how I live and why?
Because I know that spiritmatters itself lavishly into the
(07:11):
universe.
I am committed to packing a lotof living into a little life.
Some call this ecstasy, I callit love.
Love's favorite word is thanks.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Isn't that beautiful.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh, it's just, it makes you well, it makes me,
anyway, feel like I want torevel in that.
I want thanks to be thelanguage or the vocabulary of
all the love that I feel for theworld, for myself, for God, for
the beloveds that are allaround us.
But thanks, that thank you.
(07:51):
When I hear that love'sfavorite word is thanks, I'm
reminded of how much dignitysaying thanks for something can
give to something.
To say thank you to you know,to the universe, to God who puts
food on our table, but beingaware and saying thank you to
the farmers who have farmed it.
(08:11):
There's a place in our livesthat we can give dignity to all
kinds of things by justrecognizing that there is a
thank you that can be offered.
Our family the other day hadcome in and our dog, large dog,
came right with us and someonein the family I don't remember
(08:32):
one of the children said Luna,thank you that you come with us.
When we come, we don't have tocall you.
And I was thinking about justwhat saying thank you does.
First of all, it unifies us, butthen it also reminds us of good
that is all around us and I,absolutely I, want to pack as
(08:53):
much living into one life as wecan.
I want to savor every bit of it.
I want to drink the wine, Iwant to love the love, I want to
see people, I want to be inplaces, I want to smell
beautiful things, I want to hearthe poetry, I want to sing the
songs, I want to go to themuseums, I want all of the
goodness, and I thinkThanksgiving is how we get there
(09:16):
that we would pay attention tothat.
One of the things that I amconfident in is that it connects
us to our source, and oursource is God, and to say thank
you reminds us that love is oursource, that we are being cared
for, that hope is coming for us,that there is good in store for
(09:39):
us, and so I'm so inspired bythat, by the practice, and I
think that we stir each other up, that we remind each other.
When we say thank you forsomething, it reminds someone
else that they can say thank youfor something.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yes, yes, and I love the beginning of this piece
because I know that spiritmatters itself lavishly into the
universe.
Not just a little bit, you know.
Yes, not just one time.
Yes, right, but there's this on, and it reminds us of the
abundance, yes, the ongoingnessof this understanding, and so
(10:14):
I've been holding these thoughtsthis, uh, this week, as we
prepare for the thanksgivingholiday, in one hand.
In the other hand, uh, I wantus to talk just for a few
minutes about what it is feelinglike, what you're hearing as a
pastor or as a friend, or from ahearts where, you know, I just
(10:38):
don't have anything to givethanks for right now.
I just feel despondent, I feeldepressed, I feel oppressed, I
feel like nothing that I domakes a difference.
Let's talk about thatintersection of our lives, where
we are, what we're hearingother people say right now and
(10:59):
what we might offer as a word,maybe in one of these pieces or
just from our own hearts.
How gratitude, gratefulness,giving thanks.
These practices are consistentthings in our lives, but they're
(11:22):
not always easy.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I think part of the reason why it's not always easy
is because I think our ego isopposed to thanksgiving,
thankfulness, gratefulness.
Somehow I think that our egohas told us that we have earned
the good in our life, like thatwhat we have is because we have
(11:49):
made the right choices, or thisis because I worked hard, or
because I I choose this asopposed to remembering that love
is the source of it all, thatthere is abundance there, and
thanksgiving or giving thanks ormindful practices or
gratefulness really kind ofrealigns us, I think, with our
(12:11):
true selves, with the self thatknows that we have never been
separated from the goodness ofGod, from the love of Christ,
from the light that is eachother.
And I think that when we remindourselves there's good around
me, or when we dignify somethingor someone or some creature or
some soul with thankfulness,that again it puts us in a
(12:35):
community.
It takes us outside of thatsingleness and says you are part
of something and I love thatabout Thanksgiving for us.
It reminds us that we are notall alone.
In fact, it really stands inthe face of the lie that we've
done this by ourselves, thatthere is a good, beautiful world
(12:56):
that has offered herself on ourbehalf and that in the finding
of ways to be thankful in thepractices.
One of the things that I loveabout friendship is that we
often find how we can inspireeach other to what thankfulness
is, who is worthy ofthankfulness or where we give
(13:17):
thankfulness.
And again, I just think thatwhen we even practice
(13:38):
thankfulness in any communitythat we're in, it allows like a
very gentle, calming presence toit.
You know, like even if we're injust recently, in our landscape
, there've been a lot of heatedconversations and people are
very passionate about something,and I have been intentionally
(14:00):
trying to find places to connectwith people and I found it
harder and harder to find thatconnection sometimes, and so
what I've been able to say isI'm so thankful for your passion
, I'm so thankful for you beingable to articulate what is so
important to you.
I can't agree necessarily withyou on why you're passionate,
(14:23):
but that I can say thank you forsharing your passion with us.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That's a beautiful practice, a beautiful way to
think about.
You know, sometimes, when wehave to stretch ourselves to
find gratitude or to witness itor to observe it.
That's a beautiful way topractice it.
(14:50):
I think for myself what youjust spoke about, the ego, and I
wonder if, to tag onto that, ifthere's some kind of privilege
that we feel or that we're owed,or that we deserve this sort of
(15:11):
life that we have, and so we'renot as grateful, we're not as
aware of where the food camefrom, the immigrants that
actually are in places toprocure and procure the food to
us, to pack it, to ship it, todeliver it, yes, to bring it to
(15:34):
our tables, right, um, like, welike, there's this big space
between our refrigerator doorand the entrance into the
grocery store.
You know, that's all we see,that's all we experience, right,
like there's so much behind thegrocery store that we're not
(15:59):
grateful for, and so we'repreparing these huge places of
spread next week and meals andinviting people to eat that meal
, and sometimes Heather.
I even wonder if we have notobserved Thanksgiving, in light
of our brothers and sisters whohad to give up something for us
(16:22):
to experience Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, and can I also say to you that it's sometimes
our brothers and sisters didn'tgive it up.
Sometimes it was forcibly takenthat's what I'm saying From
them.
And so, yeah, right, so to beable to say that perhaps the
native Indians that were on thisland first did not give this up
, it was taken from themAbsolutely, and even before the
people group that was herebefore them, and so it's not so
(16:48):
much maybe an offering, as itwas a tax or it was something
was stolen.
But I think that it is where wecan center ourself now is to be
able to say, for this that Ihave, I see the sacrifice, or I
see the goodness that was giftedto the farmer who planted a
seed, see the goodness that wasgifted to the farmer who planted
(17:10):
a seed, to the person whoharvested that seed, to the
earth, who allowed the seed togerminate and grow and produce a
healthy vegetable or fruit thatI am experiencing now, that
will nourish my body, yes, yes,yes.
I think that gratitudepositions us in a place of
humility, not in a place ofscarcity or in a place where we
(17:30):
diminish ourselves, but torecognize that every good and
beautiful thing is offered to usfrom a loving father and this
eternal parent who said I willput you in this world and here
is where you'll work to thriveand work to call things.
I think it was Cummings whosaid gratitude amplifies
(17:53):
goodness.
It rescues us from negativeemotions and connects us in
meaningful ways.
We want to pause and take amoment and let you know how glad
we are that you've joined us.
If you're enjoying this podcast, consider sharing it with a
friend, and if you found theconversation intriguing and want
to know more about what we'relearning or how you can join our
(18:15):
online community, visit ourwebsite at
expansionistheologycom.
One of the things that GivingThanks does is really connect us
, and I think it does exactlywhat you said where it connects
us to maybe takes away the gapsbetween a refrigerator and the
farmer who, or the immigrant whohas picked it, or the people
(18:36):
who have, you know, worked hardso that we can eat.
But it's not just about thephysical things that we've eaten
, you know, I think about whatgratitude does.
When I even consider thatAdvent is coming and I listen to
the story of Advent and what itoffers to us, and then
thanksgiving, or thankfulnessthat arises from hearing the
story and going all of the womenwho gave themselves in
(19:00):
beautiful and powerful ways sothat I can have the light or the
illumination that I do now,that I can have the light or the
illumination that I do now.
I mean there is ways to liveour life constantly in the
practice of gratitude, whichwould be constantly in the
practice and in connection withdivine love.
I think that's such a whole anda holistic way of trying to
(19:21):
find our life.
It in no way means that wedon't acknowledge pain, that we
don't acknowledge suffering, butthat we acknowledge a greater
story, a greater magic, are-enchantment, something that
is bigger, that there is apromise that love is eternal and
that good things matter.
(19:43):
And I think that finding thebeauty, I think that gratitude
allows us to find beauty inthings and the practice of that
finding beauty, entrenchingourselves in beauty and being
aware of beauty, being gratefulfor beauty.
We were at an art museumrecently and I was so grateful
for all of the artists that hadcontributed.
I was thinking about just thescope of so many different
(20:06):
people who had given theirartwork so that we could stand
in front of it and be inspiredby it, be in awe of it.
But I know that art issomething that is a gift from
someone's soul and so not to betaken lightly.
And so there's so much hope inbeing able to say thank you to
(20:28):
each other in our most generouspractices and being a part of
family.
But to say thank you to theworld, to God, to the ocean that
continues her tides and hergifts every day, to the birds
that fly overhead, to the sunthat rises every morning and to
the moon, to the beautiful,beautiful moon who offers so
(20:51):
much.
And I, just I agree that thispractice can, it can be a method
of healing for us, it can berenewal, it can be a higher
perspective and it can betranscendent.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah Well, you just said like a whole week's worth
of thought in about threeminutes.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I get like a little wound up about this.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's just like wow, wow.
I want to take us back to thequote at the beginning gratitude
turns what we have into enough.
And it reminds me of thisHebrew word, which is a song
that is usually part of theJewish Passover, but the word is
(21:32):
the word is Dayenu, and itactually means it would have
been enough, and this is sungrepeatedly.
It has 15 stanzas in the entiresong, but it's broken down into
these categories the first fiveare leaving slavery, the next
(21:57):
five are miracles and the nextfive are being with God, and
each one is sung in unison.
And then they say Dayenubetween each stanza, which means
it would have been enough.
So I'm just going to read a fewof these.
I'm not going to read all 15.
(22:18):
Because I think it makes thepoint that sometimes we have to
remember what we're grateful for, right, we have to remember
where we were compared to wherewe are now, and I think this
particular piece does a greatjob of that.
(22:40):
And so the first stanza if hehad brought us out of Egypt,
dayenu.
If he had executed justice upontheir gods.
Dayenu.
If he had split the sea for us.
Dayenu.
If he had drowned ouroppressors.
Dayenu.
(23:01):
If he had fed us manna, dayenu.
If he had given us Shabbat,dayenu.
If he had led us to Mount Sinai, dayenu If he had brought us
into the land of Israel, dayenu.
If he built the temple for us,dayenu, it would have been
(23:24):
enough.
Like any of these things wouldhave been enough.
Like any of these things wouldhave been enough.
So this song is a reminder atPassover to remember what we're
grateful for.
This practice of understanding,of gratitude and gratefulness
and giving thanks is also aremembering posture and
sometimes remembering is its ownpractice because we forget.
(23:47):
We forget that you know,historically, the Native
Americans were here first.
But unless you're going to thatmuseum on a regular basis, we
forget, right.
And so we get here and we haveforgotten.
And so we get here and we haveforgotten, daino.
We have forgotten what youshared on Sunday.
(24:09):
That gratitude is simplylooking at what we have and
calling it enough like no moreis needed.
If we never were blessed withanything beyond where we are
right now, heather, daino, itwould have been enough.
It's just powerful, thispowerful place of understanding
of what that does to our bodies,our minds, our spirits, our
(24:33):
souls, our day-to-dayconversations with individuals
who sometimes, when we run intothem have very little to be
grateful for.
Let us remember.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yes, it would have been enough.
It is enough.
That is a beautiful posture forus to agree with the words that
remind us that every good thingwill be given to us because our
eternal parent loves us and hasgood for us.
You don't have to seek the goodfor yourself.
(25:05):
You know I, the Lord, havealready planned.
It is one of the things that theprophet said for us that there
is good in the world, and it isour choice to see the good.
There is an Old Testament versethat says that it's the glory
of God to hide a thing, and itis the glory of man to uncover
it.
(25:25):
And this beautiful thing ofgoing.
What does it look like for usto uncover all of the beauty,
all of the treasures, all of thegoodness that God has built
into the world?
What is it like for us to standand witness the tree?
What does it look like for usto stand and witness our brother
and sister and to see thegoodness of God in them, or to
see the work of Christ in them?
(25:47):
Maybe goodness has been alittle veiled in their life, but
where is the hope of sayingthat this other person that I
stand in front of also bears theimage of Christ?
And this hope that this practiceof giving thanks, of
recognizing the good, of callingit out, of recognizing the good
of calling it out, it offers tous a way out of pridefulness,
(26:18):
out of that judging things asnot being enough or not having
enough even to be able to bethankful for difficult places
Not, you know, I'm grateful forthe trauma, but to be able to
say you know, I'm grateful forthe healing that will come.
I'm grateful for the hope, thatis, that I have an awareness
that that is not okay or that isnot expected.
There's so many places for usthat allow us to integrate our
(26:42):
whole life with the practice ofthanksgiving, to allow the good
and the bad, to allow the lightand the dark, to allow the grace
.
That says that.
Where do I find the presence oflove in the middle of
everything, and how do I honorthat love?
I think one of the paths isgratitude.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, yeah, you and I believe that very strongly and
we practice that, and we mayeven know people who do not
practice it at all, who find itdifficult to be grateful.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Well, can we talk about that for a minute, because
I have a friend who has hadsignificant trauma, as many
people have, from the church andunderstands the practice of
gratitude, but really the wordsare thick in her mouth, she
can't get them out.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
right now, she's just in pain.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Right, a lot of pain, and I see that pain and honor
it and I'm hopeful that pain isnot all that she will know.
But right now she cannot saythank you because it just
doesn't feel sincere.
But she leaves a little.
Every time she's outside shemakes a little altar.
(27:59):
I watch her.
She's gathered a few stonestogether, a few leaves, a few
branches, and she makessomething lovely, little tiny
things.
It almost looks sometimes likea little fairy house or a little
altar table or it's arranged insuch a way.
And when I watch her do thatwhat my heart says is that is
(28:19):
the thank you that she is ableto express right now.
When words fail us, thank youis bigger than just our words.
It can be what we write, whatwe paint, how we live, what we
do.
And while our words are notexcluded from being thankful,
there may be a time in aperson's life where that is not
something that you say, but itcan be a life that you live of
(28:40):
gratitude.
It can be a holy ritual that youengage in that allows the world
to receive your gratitude, topay attention to the small and
beautiful and significant thingsthat are around us, just in
nature, that testify to us of aloving spirit that is still
(29:05):
hovering over the chaos that isstill creating and invites us to
co-create with the spirit andbring the kingdom, the kingdom
of love, the kingdom that Jesusoffered us, into the now.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, I appreciate that story and that insight
about your friend.
I think it's important,particularly maybe in our time
right now, where there are somany mixed emotions and feelings
about chaos in the world.
I'll just put it that way.
I feel like it's okay, like Iwant to say to people it's okay
(29:51):
If this Thanksgiving doesn'tfeel grateful or if you're in a
space where you can't seem, likeyou just said, to form the
words in your own mouth or tofind something in nature that
that inspires your heart or yourspirit, it's okay.
You know, I think part of ourcapacity as people that practice
(30:13):
this art and gift ofthanksgiving or giving thanks,
is to hold that bucket of sorrowand pain at times for people
that cannot utter the wordsright, and that is our gift to
the world in many ways.
(30:34):
And so you know, just to be, Ithink, completely honest with
myself, I know there's peoplethat are not in a space to give
thanks this week or next week ormaybe even next month, but here
we are, practicing it, teachingit, offering it.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yes, and one of the things that I would like to
remind people that are listeningis that's the beauty of
community, because sometimes,when I cannot utter the words,
someone else in my communitycame that's right.
They're at a different place inthe journey, and it does help us
to bring into remembrancethings that we should be
thankful for, the more thatwe're in a more diverse
(31:16):
community together.
It expands our ability to seethings to be grateful for or as
oppressive or as flawed, thateven in the recognizing of a
system that has failed us, of aperson that we can no longer
(31:52):
trust, that there is a beautythat can be held, even by
someone else, to recognize thatfor us and in our community, in
our practice of connection, ourcommunity, in our practice of
connection, in the hope thatcomes to us, in listening to our
soul, that I believe is full ofgratitude for the life that we
get to lead, for theopportunities that we're
(32:14):
afforded.
And I don't as much as I lovethe idea of a Pollyanna I mean
what a good story if you haven'tlooked it up.
I mean, definitely look up thatstory, how it changes someone's
life, to change your thoughtsabout something.
But gratitude has a uniquepower behind it.
I believe, again, we see thisin the practices of Jesus, who
is grateful, but in all theleaders who are wisdom leaders,
(32:38):
gratitude has a supremeimportance in our being able to
see things as they really are.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
One of the things in the longitudinal study of these
180 nuns is that those whopracticed some form of gratitude
writing it, speaking it,sharing it lived 15 years longer
than those who did not.
And just that alone, right likewow, yes here's a path to
(33:10):
longevity.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, yeah, incredible.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
And this beautiful incredible and what it exudes
right in that individual.
You know how it shows up ontheir face, or you know in how
they prepare a meal or in howthey, you know, take care of
their neighbor.
Whatever that gratitude, thatpractice of gratitude expands us
.
It spills from us into multipleways and spaces that we may not
(33:37):
even know that it's going.
But it's just a beautiful, it'sa beautiful practice and I hope
that we, as you know, women offaith and of spirit, continue to
share that and expand it withothers.
I know that there's anotherpiece that we want to, that we
want to read together and share.
(33:58):
I wonder if we, if we, couldtake turns reading this by WS
Mullen.
Maybe we could each take aparagraph.
Maybe you start and then I'llfollow.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Listen.
With the night falling, we aresaying thank you.
We are stopping on the bridgeto bow from the railings.
We are running out of the glassrooms with our mouths full of
food to look at the sky and saythank you.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We are standing by the water, looking out in
different directions directions,back from a series of hospitals
, back from a mugging afterfunerals.
We are saying thank you.
After the news of the dead,whether or not we knew them, we
(34:57):
are saying thank you In aculture up to its chin in shame,
living in the stench it haschosen, we are saying thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Over telephones.
We are saying thank you Indoorways and in the backs of
cars and in elevators,remembering wars and the police
at the back door and thebeatings on stairs.
We are saying thank you In thebanks that use us.
We are saying thank you Withthe crooks in office, with the
(35:32):
rich and the fashionable.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Unchanged, we are going on saying thank you thank
you With the animals dyingaround us, our lost feelings.
We are saying thank you withthe animals dying around us, our
lost feelings.
We are saying thank you withthe forests falling faster than
the minutes of our lives.
We are saying thank you withthe words going out like cells
(35:58):
of a brain, with the citiesgrowing over us like the earth.
We are saying thank you fasterand faster, with nobody
listening.
We are saying thank you Withnobody listening.
We are saying thank you.
(36:19):
We are saying thank you.
We are saying thank you andwaving dark though it is WS
Merwin.
Thank you, heather Drake, forthis time.
Thank you, shelley Shepard.
May gratefulness be among us aswe give thanks.
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