December 7, 2024 • 31 mins
What does true peace mean in a world fraught with noise and chaos? Join us as we journey into the heart of Advent, a time rich with themes of hope, peace, love, and joy. We offer our gratitude for a year of the Expansionist Podcast by exploring the Hebrew and Greek concepts of peace—"shalom" and "irene"—which invite us to rethink peace not just as an absence of conflict, but as a vibrant state of harmony and tranquility. Through a touching narrative about a friend’s grandmother approaching the end of her journey, we witness peace as a transformative portal to something greater.
In this reflective episode, we embrace the nurturing imagery of peace as a maternal force, inspired by Ada Aroni's evocative poem, "Peace is a Woman and a Mother." This perspective urges us to envision a world beyond war and violence. We ponder the barriers that modern life—media and constant noise—erects between us and the ever-present spirit of hope, joy, and love. The spiritual symbolism of Advent invites us to expand our understanding, drawing parallels with the birth of Christ, the Prince of Peace, and challenging us to cultivate a deeper theology that sees spirit as a pathway to love.
As we close, we contemplate a world yearning for peace amidst dissonance and violence. Drawing inspiration from Inez McBride's poignant quote, we express a collective desire for peace so profound it allows us to "hear the trees sing." This episode is an invitation to listeners to not only reflect but to actively become conduits of peace in their own lives. For those seeking further inspiration, we welcome you to explore more at expansionisttheology.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Expansionist Podcast with
Shelley Shepard and HeatherDrake.
In each episode, we dive deepinto conversations that
challenge conventional thinking,amplify diverse voices and
foster a community grounded inwisdom, spirit and love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good afternoon, Heather Drake.
It's so good to see you today.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Good afternoon, Shelley Shepard.
It's my joy for us to be ableto be together and to have a
conversation that we are goingto share with our listeners, and
we're in a season of Advent andwe've been talking about hope
and peace and love and joy allreally important themes.
(00:42):
All really important themes andthis idea of remembering and
starting a new.
This is an important time forthis podcast and for um the
adventure we started when wesaid, hey, we talk about a lot
of things, we should start apodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes, yes, and look at us, we are.
We're one year in celebratingum.
Coming up on this one yearmarker of podcasting, let's just
have a moment and saycongratulations, congratulations
to you and to us and what thismeans going forward, we're very
excited to.
I feel like I'm just I'm stillquite new at what is evolving
(01:23):
here, or what is expanding, inother words, but delighted to be
a part of this and to see whatspirit stirs in us week after
week as we learn to become moreopen and more expansive in our
not just our theology, but inour practices with one another
(01:44):
and with other people.
I think it's just a beautifulway to come every week and
converse with you.
So thank you for this firstyear and for our great
editor-in-chief, dennis Drake,who is behind the scenes working
so efficiently and effectivelyfor us as well.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, and I also am grateful for all of the people
who joined us on the podcast andthose guests were really
exciting and I'm looking forwardto us hearing from some of the
same guests again, but some newones and so maybe some new
friends to meet.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And for those listening right, for those who
are downloading and staying withus and paying attention to what
the feminine spirit is stirringin me and in you and what that
means for the collective voiceof what God is doing among us.
(02:43):
So grateful for listeners.
Thank you, yes, yes, yes, allright.
Shall we dive?
Shall we dive into peace?
Are you feeling peaceful todayor are you still?
Uh, I know we're in the, we'rekind of in the off week here
we're, we're podcastingsomething before it's actually
it actually comes, but that's,that's almost like expectancy,
(03:03):
right?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
like, yeah, and it's very advent, like where we're
awaiting the arrival ofsomething, anticipation and, um
yeah, active waiting, I think,is how.
I like to describe that formyself Not just, um, something
that we're resigned to, butsomething that we're looking at
and going.
We get to attend to this.
(03:24):
This is something that we getto wait for and anticipate.
I think is a good part of thatAdvent, and so particularly this
week we've been talking abouthope.
The next week will be peace.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Peace.
What an important theme tonurture and pay attention to and
let it roll around in us.
Yeah, it's a beautiful word inboth Hebrew and Greek.
I'm not a Hebrew or Greekscholar.
I have had some Hebrew waded myway through three semesters of
(04:14):
that but in no means am I aHebrew scholar.
But I love the words and I lovethat there's Hebrew and Greek
dictionaries and lexicons thatwe can refer back to when we are
rusty in Hebrew and Greek andlook at some of these words in
(04:38):
the original and I thought if wecould just look at peace for a
second and then look at that inHebrew and then in Greek.
And most people know the Hebrewword for peace, which is shalom,
and I've been kind of testingthe Greek equivalent of peace
(05:02):
with some people that I'mbouncing into that.
I wonder if they know it ordon't know it.
But the word is Irenae.
Peace in the Greek is Irenae,which has this they have this
equal weight of what it means tohave harmony or national
(05:29):
tranquility or places that inthat time, in that century or in
these periods where theselanguages would have been
written, these languages wouldhave been written, they would
have been longing for the samething that perhaps we are
(05:51):
longing for now, and they hadthese two beautiful words to
either pray or lament or pausewith or hold that when I look at
them myself Shalom and Irene itfosters a stillness and a
quietness and a place in me thatfeels like peace is different
(06:19):
when you say something in adifferent language or you
understand what might have beenbehind it.
It's just powerful to me and Iwanted to start with that.
Those words that sometimes wejust we haven't heard them and
so peace becomes.
Hmm, it's just another word tous, but I think Advent brings to
(06:45):
our attention that it's shalom,it's irene, and it is this
place of solitude and quiet andgetting calm and getting still
in this inner sanctuary of ourlives.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I think that peace is a threshold idea.
I have a friend whosegrandmother is dying this week
and I asked how I could besupportive.
And she's 101, bless her, andso what a gift.
And she is.
Up until last week she wasliving by herself and she is up
(07:30):
until last week she was livingby herself.
So very alert, very stillgiving to the world.
So what a beautiful time.
But I asked what I could do tobe supportive and he said would
you pray peace for our family?
Would you pray peace in herpassing?
Would you pray for us peacethat in our expectancy of
whatever new is coming, whattheir lives will look like when
she goes?
And I was thinking about thatbecause of course I said, yes, I
(07:52):
would be honored to pray peacein that moment.
But very often we don'trecognize that the threshold
that is open to us, like peace,is a portal to something more.
It's not just this place of nowar.
It's something even bigger thanthat.
It's something more expansivethan that this place of God's
original design, love's originalintention, restoration and then
(08:17):
renewal and resurrection, allof those things together.
I think that's what peacereminds me of in this idea of
going to pray, for peace is topray an expansive prayer.
To live in peace is to live inexpansive way, to be aware of
there is more and again,nonviolence is the beginning of
(08:40):
that, but not the end of it.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
There is an invitation into the creativity
of what we're, I think, whatwe're holding for what you're
also saying is that thisdefinition of that we want peace
does not exclude this nationalor this personal welfare.
(09:04):
But what you just named is itexpands it far beyond that.
Yes, yes, like for the wholeworld to live in peace, like is
this possible?
Is it possible that we can livein peace with each other and
with different cultures andethnicities, and is it?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
possible for us to live in peace with creation?
Is it possible for us to livein peace beyond just our
arrogant assumption that it isjust people that we need to be
at peace with?
But the call is really anexpansive call.
How do we live in the mind ofGod, how do we pay attention to
that Christ who is named thePrince of Peace?
(09:49):
The acceptance of Christ is aninvitation to accept a way of
thinking that allows us oneness.
When Jesus prays at least thisthought reminds me of this when
Jesus prays in John 17, when hesays to God will you make them
one?
That, to me, is what peacelooks like, this oneness with
God.
Because in our oneness with God, if we understand that we are
(10:12):
so connected to the spirit inthis way that it would be change
the way that we live, it wouldchange our behaviors, it would
change our ideas, it wouldchange for us, I think, an
awareness of really who we are,that we are made with a God who
(10:33):
names himself peace.
Over and over again, thescriptures talk to us about God
being our peace, or this call toname it, because I think that
understanding or trying tounderstand that our ego is
really about war, about power,about acquisition, but the
(10:54):
spirit leads us into thiswholeness, this creativity, this
kingdom living.
It's exciting, it's hopeful, italso feels like a whole lot of
work.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
But the Spirit will be there to empower us.
You've mentioned this a coupletimes that the Spirit right,
that the Spirit will lead or theSpirit will bring Peace is part
of the fruit, or maybe theharvest, of the Holy Spirit.
Let's talk about that for justa few minutes.
(11:28):
When we say that the Spirit isbringing something or revealing
something or dropping somethinginto our spirit, this is a part
of maybe the practices or therituals that have evolved in our
lives over time.
But when I think of peace as apart of a harvest of the Holy
(11:55):
Spirit, or it's a fruit of theHoly Spirit, I feel like I want
to unpack that a little bit forpeople that are listening.
What does it mean for us tohave this peace that comes
through Spirit?
How do you get that?
How does that happen?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, I think that I mean I certainly wouldn't box in
the working of Spirit and saythat I know all of it, but very
often the things of spirit arerevealed to people who have
listened and practiced inhearing the voice of the spirit,
know the evidence of the spiritat work.
I mean, when we start talkingabout peace, then I'm reminded
(12:34):
of the mystic Julian of Norwich.
I think you can help me withthat.
But all will be well and andall will be well and all manner
of things will be well.
I mean holding on to the mysticthat is a place of peace, to
know that things around me canlook unstable, things around me
(12:55):
can look like this, but if Iknow that all will be well.
Those are the kind of thingsthat Spirit leads us into, this
idea of an awareness that callsus to a higher consciousness, to
paying attention to the paththat Mary Magdalene reminds us
of, where we return to love,where we give up ways of
(13:16):
thinking that are violent andthat are vengeful and we turn to
the ways of Christ that call usto a further understanding, but
not just in a knowledge base,but that this is so deeply
seated in us that we, asfollowers of Jesus, are people
(13:37):
of peace, that we find the voicethat is speaking and calling
peace on earth.
Goodwill to all people.
This is the advent, this is thecoming of the Christ, and so I
think that it speaks in manyways.
Spirit does in nature, throughour brothers and sisters,
through poetry.
(13:58):
I have a poem, peace is a Womanand a Mother, by Ada Aroni.
How do you know peace is awoman?
I know, for I met her yesterdayon my winding way to the
World's Fair.
She had such a sorrowful faceand, like a golden flower faded
before her prime and I asked herwhy she was so sad and she told
(14:22):
me that her baby was killed inAuschwitz and her daughter in
Hiroshima and her sons inVietnam and India and Pakistan
and Ireland and Israel andPalestine and Lebanon and
Botswana and Rwanda and Chechnyaand all the rest of the
children, she said, are on thenuclear blacklist of the dead.
All the rest, unless the wholeworld understands that peace is
(14:56):
a woman.
And then I think, in Advent, howwe pay attention to Mary who
births the Christ, thisinvitation that God comes in and
says here's a new creation andinvites the Prince of Peace to
(15:17):
be born of a woman.
The Prince of Peace to say letthe women think, let the women
ponder, let the women invite theHoly Spirit to reimagine a
world without war, withoutviolence, where everything and
everyone is shared in equity.
We want to pause and take amoment and let you know how glad
(15:41):
we are that you've joined us.
If you're enjoying this podcast, consider sharing it with a
friend, and if you found theconversation intriguing and want
to know more about what we'relearning or how you can join our
online community, visit ourwebsite at
expansionistheologycom.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
What a beautiful poem , I say.
I see it makes me think aboutsomething we talked about in the
pre-show, about that Lukepassage in chapter 1, where it
(16:28):
refers to the tender mercy ofGod being like a woman.
There's a Hebrew no, I'm sorry,the translation is this Greek
phrase again, the inner organsof mercy.
Only found in that oneparticular verse in the New
Testament and the essence of itis to get us to imagine a mother
(16:48):
embracing a young child, to geta picture of God's mercy
towards us.
And in what you just read, wow,if we cannot understand peace
or mercy in that kind ofreflection, then we cannot
understand kind of reflection,then we cannot understand.
(17:10):
We cannot understand peace Ifpeace is mother-like what does
that say about war?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, I would just firmly believe that peace can.
I think that, if I would makethis assumption, war is of the
ego and peace is of the spirit,and so I don't think there can
be a coexisting.
I think that there has to be asurrender, and I have hope that
the ego would surrender to thelove, to the tender mercies of
(17:40):
the spirit mercies of the Spirit.
I am a firm believer that loveis the greatest thing, that it
is eternal, that eventuallyeverything will bow to love and
that we need to be people whoare inspired by love.
But love, then, in its veryessence, is not going to force.
It is a choice to surrender toto force.
(18:03):
It is a choice to surrender to.
And if we use our imagination tosurrender to peace, surrender
to the invitation to go higher,to think bigger, how can we, as
a people, be at peace witheveryone?
What would that take?
I think a move of the HolySpirit, and by that I mean,
(18:25):
could we all pay attentioninstead of prejudices and ideas
and experiences we've had thathave told us that we're
different from one another andwe need to be a part of strife
or division, but that love wouldcall us all to this threshold
of going.
This is what it looks like forall of God's children to be not
(18:45):
just in unity, but in unity withChrist, in unity with love, in
unity with the Father who saysI've loved you the same way that
I love Jesus.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
When you were talking there, it um.
I went to a place and I want usto talk about this a little bit
.
So I've heard other people saythat discontent is a lack of
peace.
Do you agree with that?
That discontent is a lack ofpeace.
(19:17):
To be discontent is to lackpeace.
Do I agree with it?
I'm not sure if I agree ordisagree.
Does it resonate?
But it's interesting.
I think it does resonate in thesense of what we were just
(19:37):
talking about, about the spirit,about spirit, about spirit.
The work of spirit is this it'snot a step-by-step process, in
my opinion, where you get it oneday and then you're good for
(20:03):
all time.
It's more like, oh, it's morelike, oh, it's more uh.
The work of spirit is, and Ibelieve that spirit is always
with us and has always been withus.
Right, agreed, and so if lastweek we talked about that, hope
was like a bird or a sewer rat,uh and um, if you haven't, if
you haven't heard that podcast,maybe jump over and listen to
(20:25):
that.
It was pretty interesting.
But if spirit has always beenwith us, if hope has always been
with us, if peace and joy andlove and the things that you're
naming have always been with us.
What is it that keeps us fromrecognizing that they have
always been with us?
What is it that keeps us fromrecognizing that they have
(20:45):
always been with us?
Is it advertisement?
Is it media?
Is it the noise that we'relistening to that causes this
discontentment and robs us ofpeace or calm or times of
(21:06):
solitude?
That's the beautiful thingabout Advent is we get to
purposefully be in the hope, inthe peace, in the joy, in the
love, and so Spirit gets to flowin a way that maybe she hasn't
before Advent, like maybeAdvent's the only time that
(21:26):
people can really get in thestream of it.
But I just wonder, heather, ifthere is a misunderstanding.
Or are the two of us just soexpanded in our theology
sometimes that we can see spiritas this wide, wide, wide portal
(21:50):
?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
into love.
Perhaps it is discontent ordisenchantedness or desperation
that has caused me to look atthis and has said I mean, I hear
what you say and I understandhow someone could say
discontentment is a lack ofpeace.
But then I think sometimesdiscontentment is such a
(22:11):
beautiful thing, not when wehave abundance and are not aware
of it, when we have these ideasof scarcity that cause us to be
discontent.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
But to be able to say in ourworld, just because there is no
war at my door, I am discontent.
(22:32):
Until there is war at nowoman's door, I think there's a
holy discontent to be able tosay I think that Mary had that
in the practice of Advent,looking to her as an example and
being able to say she waslooking at the world around her
and said, okay, when the angelappeared and said we're changing
things, do you want to be in onit?
(22:54):
And Mary was like, yes, becauseI'm discontent with how things
are now.
And so I think that we need tobe mindful of platitudes that
may be dismissive of whatsomeone is really feeling or
what is actually happening, andI hesitate to think that I could
name spirit or name what thework of it is, but I can listen
(23:18):
to the way that Jesus describedit and said the spirit is like
the wind you could feel it, theeffects of it on your face, and
though you may not be able tosee it or control it, but you
can feel the effects.
And I think that we are feelingthe effects right now, even of a
world that says that we needpeace so desperately, where
(23:41):
division and where separatenessis such an illusion that I am
different from you, I amseparate from you.
My life is my own life is verydifferent than what Jesus offers
us and said you know, hey, allof you, come, come to the table
everyone.
We're going to feast here.
And this idea of oneness, of acollective people, a collective
(24:09):
creation that says there is goodhere, there is so much good
here, and the call to stoppillaging our earth and our
neighbor's minerals and ourneighbor's ideas, and this idea
that peace is a way to live, Ibelieve, like God lives the
(24:33):
invitation into something thatis so holy, so beautiful, and
maybe it's because I'm themother of four sons three of
them and maybe it's because I'mthe mother of four sons, three
of them who are old enough to bedrafted into somebody else's
war.
So there is a discontent in meto say we need peace in such
(24:55):
incredible ways.
I want peace for marriages, Iwant peace for families, I want
peace for corporations and forall people in all places, and
then peace with nature that wewould stop.
So I look around and I see allthe places where there's lack of
peace, and so my words in myheart and my edged are come Lord
(25:16):
Jesus, come Prince of Peace,come, spirit of Peace, come and
hover over this, look at thechaos we've made, and now we
invite you to recreate this.
But I think firstly we allowthe Spirit to create a peace in
our minds and in our souls andthen we live out of that peace.
(25:38):
And that affects the way thatwe shop, the way that we vote,
the way that we live with ourneighbor, the way that we spend
time.
If our time is spent in anxietyand rehearsing, the worst case
(26:07):
us that we're surrounded bypoets and painters and artists
and musicians and people arejust delicious and messy and
terrible and wonderful andperfect and imperfect and all of
those things.
And to be able to say thatpeace can reign over all of that
, oh, I want to hear the wordsof Julian and all will be well
and all will be well and allmanner of things will be well.
(26:28):
That, to me, is the invitationto peace.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
That's interesting.
There's a biblical definitionto peace that I want to read, by
Cornelius Planatinga, I believehe's a theologian.
Planetinga, I believe he's atheologian.
(26:51):
The webbing together of God,humans and all creation and
justice, fulfillment and delightis what the Hebrew prophets
call shalom.
We call it peace, but it meansfar more than mere peace of mind
or a ceasefire between enemies.
In the Bible, shalom meansuniversal flourishing, wholeness
and delight, a rich state ofaffairs in which natural needs
(27:14):
are satisfied and natural giftsfruitfully employed, a state of
affairs that inspires joyfulwonder, as its creator and
savior opens doors and welcomesthe creatures in whom he
delights.
Shalom, in other words, is theway things ought to be, and what
(27:36):
that says to me is, whetherit's discontentment, whether
it's anger or fear, or loss orgrief, or the now and the not
yet, that shalom is the placethat we all find peace, that
shalom is peace, that irene ispeace, and how we get there and
(28:01):
how we find it, I think arebeautiful in multiplistic ways
of finding it, but I'm confidentthat we have to find it.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I think one of the ways that has been most
impactful, or I've seen the mostevidence of, is the way of
contemplation, the practice ofsilence, yes yes.
The practice of sitting in thepresence of divine love and just
stilling ourselves, and I thinkwhat I've experienced is a
(28:43):
peace that comes, and there arescriptures that indicate that if
you can keep your mind at onewith God's mind, that that will
be the kind of peace that willsurpass even understanding.
Keep our minds thinking aboutthose things that are lovely,
pure, kind and of a good report,not to not think about things
(29:08):
that are difficult but to beable to say there's an even
higher thought, there's a deepermagic still, there's an
invitation to be a people ofmiracles, where we recognize
that peace is a much higher wayto live.
I was talking with David, oneof my sons, before we did this
podcast and I had said that thisis what we're going to talk
(29:29):
about and he mentioned.
He said oh, people are oftenresistant to peace because it is
an arbiter of hard work.
We are people who love easy, welike microwave, we like fast.
I was thinking yesterday,because we've been talking about
slowing and even this practiceof contemplation, what it
requires of you and sitting insilence, and I cannot think of
(29:54):
the quality that is everimproved by hurry.
Making something quickly neverimproves the quality of
something.
Slowing, of allowing peace tofirst settle us and then to
invite the whole world into thatpeace to stay in that peace,
that mind of Christ, to stay inhope and then to say that in
(30:18):
that peace there's a space foreveryone.
There's a space for everythingbecause God's creation, God
loves, and God is coming for us.
And so I love that about Advent, I love that about peace.
This certainly is not aconversation that is ever going
to, I think, stop for us, butbeing aware that the practice of
(30:40):
Advent calls us to reimagine.
What would it look like foreveryone to live in peace?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, it's a beautiful thought and a
beautiful image to close with.
I'd like to share this coupleof lines as we finish today, but
this is by Inez McBride.
My heart is in need of thispeace.
My prayer is that thedissonance of violence will
(31:10):
quiet down so much that we canactually hear the trees sing.
I just loved that line that wecan actually hear the trees sing
.
This will be a sign of peacewhen you can actually hear the
benediction of trees.
Mm God, we are longing for thispeace again and anew.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
May it be so May peace start with us.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Indeed.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
It was our joy to have you listen to our
conversation today.
If you would like furtherinformation or for more content,
visit us atexpansionisttheologycom.
Welcome to the Expansionist Podcast with
Shelley Shepard and HeatherDrake.
In each episode, we dive deepinto conversations that
challenge conventional thinking,amplify diverse voices and
foster a community grounded inwisdom, spirit and love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good afternoon, Heather Drake.
It's so good to see you today.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Good afternoon, Shelley Shepard.
It's my joy for us to be ableto be together and to have a
conversation that we are goingto share with our listeners, and
we're in a season of Advent andwe've been talking about hope
and peace and love and joy allreally important themes.
(00:42):
All really important themes andthis idea of remembering and
starting a new.
This is an important time forthis podcast and for um the
adventure we started when wesaid, hey, we talk about a lot
of things, we should start apodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes, yes, and look at us, we are.
We're one year in celebratingum.
Coming up on this one yearmarker of podcasting, let's just
have a moment and saycongratulations, congratulations
to you and to us and what thismeans going forward, we're very
excited to.
I feel like I'm just I'm stillquite new at what is evolving
(01:23):
here, or what is expanding, inother words, but delighted to be
a part of this and to see whatspirit stirs in us week after
week as we learn to become moreopen and more expansive in our
not just our theology, but inour practices with one another
(01:44):
and with other people.
I think it's just a beautifulway to come every week and
converse with you.
So thank you for this firstyear and for our great
editor-in-chief, dennis Drake,who is behind the scenes working
so efficiently and effectivelyfor us as well.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, and I also am grateful for all of the people
who joined us on the podcast andthose guests were really
exciting and I'm looking forwardto us hearing from some of the
same guests again, but some newones and so maybe some new
friends to meet.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And for those listening right, for those who
are downloading and staying withus and paying attention to what
the feminine spirit is stirringin me and in you and what that
means for the collective voiceof what God is doing among us.
(02:43):
So grateful for listeners.
Thank you, yes, yes, yes, allright.
Shall we dive?
Shall we dive into peace?
Are you feeling peaceful todayor are you still?
Uh, I know we're in the, we'rekind of in the off week here
we're, we're podcastingsomething before it's actually
it actually comes, but that's,that's almost like expectancy,
(03:03):
right?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
like, yeah, and it's very advent, like where we're
awaiting the arrival ofsomething, anticipation and, um
yeah, active waiting, I think,is how.
I like to describe that formyself Not just, um, something
that we're resigned to, butsomething that we're looking at
and going.
We get to attend to this.
(03:24):
This is something that we getto wait for and anticipate.
I think is a good part of thatAdvent, and so particularly this
week we've been talking abouthope.
The next week will be peace.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Peace.
What an important theme tonurture and pay attention to and
let it roll around in us.
Yeah, it's a beautiful word inboth Hebrew and Greek.
I'm not a Hebrew or Greekscholar.
I have had some Hebrew waded myway through three semesters of
(04:14):
that but in no means am I aHebrew scholar.
But I love the words and I lovethat there's Hebrew and Greek
dictionaries and lexicons thatwe can refer back to when we are
rusty in Hebrew and Greek andlook at some of these words in
(04:38):
the original and I thought if wecould just look at peace for a
second and then look at that inHebrew and then in Greek.
And most people know the Hebrewword for peace, which is shalom,
and I've been kind of testingthe Greek equivalent of peace
(05:02):
with some people that I'mbouncing into that.
I wonder if they know it ordon't know it.
But the word is Irenae.
Peace in the Greek is Irenae,which has this they have this
equal weight of what it means tohave harmony or national
(05:29):
tranquility or places that inthat time, in that century or in
these periods where theselanguages would have been
written, these languages wouldhave been written, they would
have been longing for the samething that perhaps we are
(05:51):
longing for now, and they hadthese two beautiful words to
either pray or lament or pausewith or hold that when I look at
them myself Shalom and Irene itfosters a stillness and a
quietness and a place in me thatfeels like peace is different
(06:19):
when you say something in adifferent language or you
understand what might have beenbehind it.
It's just powerful to me and Iwanted to start with that.
Those words that sometimes wejust we haven't heard them and
so peace becomes.
Hmm, it's just another word tous, but I think Advent brings to
(06:45):
our attention that it's shalom,it's irene, and it is this
place of solitude and quiet andgetting calm and getting still
in this inner sanctuary of ourlives.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I think that peace is a threshold idea.
I have a friend whosegrandmother is dying this week
and I asked how I could besupportive.
And she's 101, bless her, andso what a gift.
And she is.
Up until last week she wasliving by herself and she is up
(07:30):
until last week she was livingby herself.
So very alert, very stillgiving to the world.
So what a beautiful time.
But I asked what I could do tobe supportive and he said would
you pray peace for our family?
Would you pray peace in herpassing?
Would you pray for us peacethat in our expectancy of
whatever new is coming, whattheir lives will look like when
she goes?
And I was thinking about thatbecause of course I said, yes, I
(07:52):
would be honored to pray peacein that moment.
But very often we don'trecognize that the threshold
that is open to us, like peace,is a portal to something more.
It's not just this place of nowar.
It's something even bigger thanthat.
It's something more expansivethan that this place of God's
original design, love's originalintention, restoration and then
(08:17):
renewal and resurrection, allof those things together.
I think that's what peacereminds me of in this idea of
going to pray, for peace is topray an expansive prayer.
To live in peace is to live inexpansive way, to be aware of
there is more and again,nonviolence is the beginning of
(08:40):
that, but not the end of it.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
There is an invitation into the creativity
of what we're, I think, whatwe're holding for what you're
also saying is that thisdefinition of that we want peace
does not exclude this nationalor this personal welfare.
(09:04):
But what you just named is itexpands it far beyond that.
Yes, yes, like for the wholeworld to live in peace, like is
this possible?
Is it possible that we can livein peace with each other and
with different cultures andethnicities, and is it?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
possible for us to live in peace with creation?
Is it possible for us to livein peace beyond just our
arrogant assumption that it isjust people that we need to be
at peace with?
But the call is really anexpansive call.
How do we live in the mind ofGod, how do we pay attention to
that Christ who is named thePrince of Peace?
(09:49):
The acceptance of Christ is aninvitation to accept a way of
thinking that allows us oneness.
When Jesus prays at least thisthought reminds me of this when
Jesus prays in John 17, when hesays to God will you make them
one?
That, to me, is what peacelooks like, this oneness with
God.
Because in our oneness with God, if we understand that we are
(10:12):
so connected to the spirit inthis way that it would be change
the way that we live, it wouldchange our behaviors, it would
change our ideas, it wouldchange for us, I think, an
awareness of really who we are,that we are made with a God who
(10:33):
names himself peace.
Over and over again, thescriptures talk to us about God
being our peace, or this call toname it, because I think that
understanding or trying tounderstand that our ego is
really about war, about power,about acquisition, but the
(10:54):
spirit leads us into thiswholeness, this creativity, this
kingdom living.
It's exciting, it's hopeful, italso feels like a whole lot of
work.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
But the Spirit will be there to empower us.
You've mentioned this a coupletimes that the Spirit right,
that the Spirit will lead or theSpirit will bring Peace is part
of the fruit, or maybe theharvest, of the Holy Spirit.
Let's talk about that for justa few minutes.
(11:28):
When we say that the Spirit isbringing something or revealing
something or dropping somethinginto our spirit, this is a part
of maybe the practices or therituals that have evolved in our
lives over time.
But when I think of peace as apart of a harvest of the Holy
(11:55):
Spirit, or it's a fruit of theHoly Spirit, I feel like I want
to unpack that a little bit forpeople that are listening.
What does it mean for us tohave this peace that comes
through Spirit?
How do you get that?
How does that happen?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, I think that I mean I certainly wouldn't box in
the working of Spirit and saythat I know all of it, but very
often the things of spirit arerevealed to people who have
listened and practiced inhearing the voice of the spirit,
know the evidence of the spiritat work.
I mean, when we start talkingabout peace, then I'm reminded
(12:34):
of the mystic Julian of Norwich.
I think you can help me withthat.
But all will be well and andall will be well and all manner
of things will be well.
I mean holding on to the mysticthat is a place of peace, to
know that things around me canlook unstable, things around me
(12:55):
can look like this, but if Iknow that all will be well.
Those are the kind of thingsthat Spirit leads us into, this
idea of an awareness that callsus to a higher consciousness, to
paying attention to the paththat Mary Magdalene reminds us
of, where we return to love,where we give up ways of
(13:16):
thinking that are violent andthat are vengeful and we turn to
the ways of Christ that call usto a further understanding, but
not just in a knowledge base,but that this is so deeply
seated in us that we, asfollowers of Jesus, are people
(13:37):
of peace, that we find the voicethat is speaking and calling
peace on earth.
Goodwill to all people.
This is the advent, this is thecoming of the Christ, and so I
think that it speaks in manyways.
Spirit does in nature, throughour brothers and sisters,
through poetry.
(13:58):
I have a poem, peace is a Womanand a Mother, by Ada Aroni.
How do you know peace is awoman?
I know, for I met her yesterdayon my winding way to the
World's Fair.
She had such a sorrowful faceand, like a golden flower faded
before her prime and I asked herwhy she was so sad and she told
(14:22):
me that her baby was killed inAuschwitz and her daughter in
Hiroshima and her sons inVietnam and India and Pakistan
and Ireland and Israel andPalestine and Lebanon and
Botswana and Rwanda and Chechnyaand all the rest of the
children, she said, are on thenuclear blacklist of the dead.
All the rest, unless the wholeworld understands that peace is
(14:56):
a woman.
And then I think, in Advent, howwe pay attention to Mary who
births the Christ, thisinvitation that God comes in and
says here's a new creation andinvites the Prince of Peace to
(15:17):
be born of a woman.
The Prince of Peace to say letthe women think, let the women
ponder, let the women invite theHoly Spirit to reimagine a
world without war, withoutviolence, where everything and
everyone is shared in equity.
We want to pause and take amoment and let you know how glad
(15:41):
we are that you've joined us.
If you're enjoying this podcast, consider sharing it with a
friend, and if you found theconversation intriguing and want
to know more about what we'relearning or how you can join our
online community, visit ourwebsite at
expansionistheologycom.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
What a beautiful poem , I say.
I see it makes me think aboutsomething we talked about in the
pre-show, about that Lukepassage in chapter 1, where it
(16:28):
refers to the tender mercy ofGod being like a woman.
There's a Hebrew no, I'm sorry,the translation is this Greek
phrase again, the inner organsof mercy.
Only found in that oneparticular verse in the New
Testament and the essence of itis to get us to imagine a mother
(16:48):
embracing a young child, to geta picture of God's mercy
towards us.
And in what you just read, wow,if we cannot understand peace
or mercy in that kind ofreflection, then we cannot
understand kind of reflection,then we cannot understand.
(17:10):
We cannot understand peace Ifpeace is mother-like what does
that say about war?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, I would just firmly believe that peace can.
I think that, if I would makethis assumption, war is of the
ego and peace is of the spirit,and so I don't think there can
be a coexisting.
I think that there has to be asurrender, and I have hope that
the ego would surrender to thelove, to the tender mercies of
(17:40):
the spirit mercies of the Spirit.
I am a firm believer that loveis the greatest thing, that it
is eternal, that eventuallyeverything will bow to love and
that we need to be people whoare inspired by love.
But love, then, in its veryessence, is not going to force.
It is a choice to surrender toto force.
(18:03):
It is a choice to surrender to.
And if we use our imagination tosurrender to peace, surrender
to the invitation to go higher,to think bigger, how can we, as
a people, be at peace witheveryone?
What would that take?
I think a move of the HolySpirit, and by that I mean,
(18:25):
could we all pay attentioninstead of prejudices and ideas
and experiences we've had thathave told us that we're
different from one another andwe need to be a part of strife
or division, but that love wouldcall us all to this threshold
of going.
This is what it looks like forall of God's children to be not
(18:45):
just in unity, but in unity withChrist, in unity with love, in
unity with the Father who saysI've loved you the same way that
I love Jesus.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
When you were talking there, it um.
I went to a place and I want usto talk about this a little bit
.
So I've heard other people saythat discontent is a lack of
peace.
Do you agree with that?
That discontent is a lack ofpeace.
(19:17):
To be discontent is to lackpeace.
Do I agree with it?
I'm not sure if I agree ordisagree.
Does it resonate?
But it's interesting.
I think it does resonate in thesense of what we were just
(19:37):
talking about, about the spirit,about spirit, about spirit.
The work of spirit is this it'snot a step-by-step process, in
my opinion, where you get it oneday and then you're good for
(20:03):
all time.
It's more like, oh, it's morelike, oh, it's more uh.
The work of spirit is, and Ibelieve that spirit is always
with us and has always been withus.
Right, agreed, and so if lastweek we talked about that, hope
was like a bird or a sewer rat,uh and um, if you haven't, if
you haven't heard that podcast,maybe jump over and listen to
(20:25):
that.
It was pretty interesting.
But if spirit has always beenwith us, if hope has always been
with us, if peace and joy andlove and the things that you're
naming have always been with us.
What is it that keeps us fromrecognizing that they have
always been with us?
What is it that keeps us fromrecognizing that they have
(20:45):
always been with us?
Is it advertisement?
Is it media?
Is it the noise that we'relistening to that causes this
discontentment and robs us ofpeace or calm or times of
(21:06):
solitude?
That's the beautiful thingabout Advent is we get to
purposefully be in the hope, inthe peace, in the joy, in the
love, and so Spirit gets to flowin a way that maybe she hasn't
before Advent, like maybeAdvent's the only time that
(21:26):
people can really get in thestream of it.
But I just wonder, heather, ifthere is a misunderstanding.
Or are the two of us just soexpanded in our theology
sometimes that we can see spiritas this wide, wide, wide portal
(21:50):
?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
into love.
Perhaps it is discontent ordisenchantedness or desperation
that has caused me to look atthis and has said I mean, I hear
what you say and I understandhow someone could say
discontentment is a lack ofpeace.
But then I think sometimesdiscontentment is such a
(22:11):
beautiful thing, not when wehave abundance and are not aware
of it, when we have these ideasof scarcity that cause us to be
discontent.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
But to be able to say in ourworld, just because there is no
war at my door, I am discontent.
(22:32):
Until there is war at nowoman's door, I think there's a
holy discontent to be able tosay I think that Mary had that
in the practice of Advent,looking to her as an example and
being able to say she waslooking at the world around her
and said, okay, when the angelappeared and said we're changing
things, do you want to be in onit?
(22:54):
And Mary was like, yes, becauseI'm discontent with how things
are now.
And so I think that we need tobe mindful of platitudes that
may be dismissive of whatsomeone is really feeling or
what is actually happening, andI hesitate to think that I could
name spirit or name what thework of it is, but I can listen
(23:18):
to the way that Jesus describedit and said the spirit is like
the wind you could feel it, theeffects of it on your face, and
though you may not be able tosee it or control it, but you
can feel the effects.
And I think that we are feelingthe effects right now, even of a
world that says that we needpeace so desperately, where
(23:41):
division and where separatenessis such an illusion that I am
different from you, I amseparate from you.
My life is my own life is verydifferent than what Jesus offers
us and said you know, hey, allof you, come, come to the table
everyone.
We're going to feast here.
And this idea of oneness, of acollective people, a collective
(24:09):
creation that says there is goodhere, there is so much good
here, and the call to stoppillaging our earth and our
neighbor's minerals and ourneighbor's ideas, and this idea
that peace is a way to live, Ibelieve, like God lives the
(24:33):
invitation into something thatis so holy, so beautiful, and
maybe it's because I'm themother of four sons three of
them and maybe it's because I'mthe mother of four sons, three
of them who are old enough to bedrafted into somebody else's
war.
So there is a discontent in meto say we need peace in such
(24:55):
incredible ways.
I want peace for marriages, Iwant peace for families, I want
peace for corporations and forall people in all places, and
then peace with nature that wewould stop.
So I look around and I see allthe places where there's lack of
peace, and so my words in myheart and my edged are come Lord
(25:16):
Jesus, come Prince of Peace,come, spirit of Peace, come and
hover over this, look at thechaos we've made, and now we
invite you to recreate this.
But I think firstly we allowthe Spirit to create a peace in
our minds and in our souls andthen we live out of that peace.
(25:38):
And that affects the way thatwe shop, the way that we vote,
the way that we live with ourneighbor, the way that we spend
time.
If our time is spent in anxietyand rehearsing, the worst case
(26:07):
us that we're surrounded bypoets and painters and artists
and musicians and people arejust delicious and messy and
terrible and wonderful andperfect and imperfect and all of
those things.
And to be able to say thatpeace can reign over all of that
, oh, I want to hear the wordsof Julian and all will be well
and all will be well and allmanner of things will be well.
(26:28):
That, to me, is the invitationto peace.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
That's interesting.
There's a biblical definitionto peace that I want to read, by
Cornelius Planatinga, I believehe's a theologian.
Planetinga, I believe he's atheologian.
(26:51):
The webbing together of God,humans and all creation and
justice, fulfillment and delightis what the Hebrew prophets
call shalom.
We call it peace, but it meansfar more than mere peace of mind
or a ceasefire between enemies.
In the Bible, shalom meansuniversal flourishing, wholeness
and delight, a rich state ofaffairs in which natural needs
(27:14):
are satisfied and natural giftsfruitfully employed, a state of
affairs that inspires joyfulwonder, as its creator and
savior opens doors and welcomesthe creatures in whom he
delights.
Shalom, in other words, is theway things ought to be, and what
(27:36):
that says to me is, whetherit's discontentment, whether
it's anger or fear, or loss orgrief, or the now and the not
yet, that shalom is the placethat we all find peace, that
shalom is peace, that irene ispeace, and how we get there and
(28:01):
how we find it, I think arebeautiful in multiplistic ways
of finding it, but I'm confidentthat we have to find it.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I think one of the ways that has been most
impactful, or I've seen the mostevidence of, is the way of
contemplation, the practice ofsilence, yes yes.
The practice of sitting in thepresence of divine love and just
stilling ourselves, and I thinkwhat I've experienced is a
(28:43):
peace that comes, and there arescriptures that indicate that if
you can keep your mind at onewith God's mind, that that will
be the kind of peace that willsurpass even understanding.
Keep our minds thinking aboutthose things that are lovely,
pure, kind and of a good report,not to not think about things
(29:08):
that are difficult but to beable to say there's an even
higher thought, there's a deepermagic still, there's an
invitation to be a people ofmiracles, where we recognize
that peace is a much higher wayto live.
I was talking with David, oneof my sons, before we did this
podcast and I had said that thisis what we're going to talk
(29:29):
about and he mentioned.
He said oh, people are oftenresistant to peace because it is
an arbiter of hard work.
We are people who love easy, welike microwave, we like fast.
I was thinking yesterday,because we've been talking about
slowing and even this practiceof contemplation, what it
requires of you and sitting insilence, and I cannot think of
(29:54):
the quality that is everimproved by hurry.
Making something quickly neverimproves the quality of
something.
Slowing, of allowing peace tofirst settle us and then to
invite the whole world into thatpeace to stay in that peace,
that mind of Christ, to stay inhope and then to say that in
(30:18):
that peace there's a space foreveryone.
There's a space for everythingbecause God's creation, God
loves, and God is coming for us.
And so I love that about Advent, I love that about peace.
This certainly is not aconversation that is ever going
to, I think, stop for us, butbeing aware that the practice of
(30:40):
Advent calls us to reimagine.
What would it look like foreveryone to live in peace?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, it's a beautiful thought and a
beautiful image to close with.
I'd like to share this coupleof lines as we finish today, but
this is by Inez McBride.
My heart is in need of thispeace.
My prayer is that thedissonance of violence will
(31:10):
quiet down so much that we canactually hear the trees sing.
I just loved that line that wecan actually hear the trees sing
.
This will be a sign of peacewhen you can actually hear the
benediction of trees.
Mm God, we are longing for thispeace again and anew.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
May it be so May peace start with us.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Indeed.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
It was our joy to have you listen to our
conversation today.
If you would like furtherinformation or for more content,
visit us atexpansionisttheologycom.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.