Getting Past Arrogance: Protecting Health When People Refuse to Change

We would love to hear what you think?

Welcome to The Exposure Scientist Podcast, where every day exposures and their real-world impact take center stage. In today's episode, Dr. Alex LeBeau dives into a pressing challenge faced by industrial hygienists and exposure scientists: how do you break through when stubborn attitudes and workplace arrogance put people's safety on the line? Dr. LeBeau shares personal stories and insights from the field, highlighting the frustrations of working with individuals who resist change and insist on doing things "the way they've always been done"—even when it means putting health and lives at risk. Join the conversation as we explore why some won't take action until a serious incident occurs, and what we can do, as a community, to help shift mindsets before it's too late. If you've ever wondered how exposure science and psychology collide in the real world, you don't want to miss this thought-provoking discussion.

Contact Dr. Alex LeBeau at Exposure Consulting for exposure litigation support or Exposure Science Consulting.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
You might not realize it, but we are exposed
to dozens of hazards every day.
Can any of these hazardsnegatively impact your health?
Definitely.
This is the Exposure ScientistPodcast.
My name is Alex LeBeau, and herewe answer your questions and
concerns on what you may beexposed to every day.

(00:21):
Welcome to the ExposureScientist Podcast.
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Exposure
Scientist podcast.
One thing I'd like to have adiscussion with everyone about
is how people interact withindustrial hygienists.

(00:42):
You know, we do it from anexposure science standpoint.
It's kind of growing off aprevious podcast of what do
industrial hygienists even do?
I think it's important torealize that from the exposure
science, toxicology orindustrial hygienist or risk
assessment paradigm is that wehave a very specialized way of
viewing a scenario and aspecialized way of addressing it

(01:03):
from that anticipate, recognize,evaluate, control methodology
using that hierarchy of controlsthat we're all so familiar with.
And I recently...
had an interaction with someone.
I'll just tell you what I'mseeing a lot.
I've seen it before.
Again, it seems to continuallyrepeat itself.

(01:23):
It's a problem when dealing withpeople that have issues that
need help, and it's like theydon't want to acknowledge they
need the help because I don'tknow how they view it.
But how I see it is essentiallythat There's no way to sugarcoat
it.
There's arrogance.
There's an arrogance aroundpeople who think they know

(01:45):
exposure science and what we doto protect health of employees.
And honestly, you know, andwe've probably all had those
frustrations.
And this is talking about thegeneral public as well.
But we've all had frustrationswhere arrogance gets in the way
of doing something.
And in this scenario, you know,there's potential that arrogance

(02:06):
can get somebody killed.
And what we are doing from anexposure science standpoint is
making sure that we're reducingrisks or addressing those risks
or identifying and making surewe're mitigating them.
But so let me, let me tell you alittle, a small little story was
recently was having a meetingwith someone.

(02:27):
And the whole predicate for themeeting was they had an
inspection and there were somedeficiencies noted during the
inspection.
And it was more than some.
But one of the scenarios was theuse of a particular chemical.
And during the conversations, Ihad said, you know, hey, you
know, looking at this from thehierarchy of controls, I said,

(02:49):
okay, well, are you able tosubstitute that chemical out?
Can you do this, you know, thesame methodology or process or
whatever you're doing withsomething different that we can
identify that has similarefficacy but has less of a
health hazard associated withit?
And the response that I got wasessentially, this is how we have

(03:14):
always been doing it.
This is what we're going tocontinue to do.
And Exposure Science covers abroad subject area, including
toxicology, industrial hygiene,and risk assessment.
From occupational, community, orenvironmental exposure, exposure
scientists apply scientificmethodologies to understand

(03:35):
exposure risks and applycontrols when necessary.
We at Exposure AssessmentConsulting have this expertise.
Please reach out to us at infoat exposureconsulting.com for a
free 15-minute consultation todiscuss the specifics of your
exposure scenario.

(03:55):
You know, it was hard becausewhat do you do in that scenario?
That person thinks they know itall.
And you're trying to explain tothem, this is how they're doing
it, period.
And that arrogance is going toget in the way.
There's ways to address it.
There's ways to get us aroundit.
But, you know, coming from thethis is how we've always done it

(04:18):
attitude is...
how you endanger people in thefirst place.
So you've got to get past that.
So healthy people understand howto get past it.
And I, you know, I don't knowwhat the threshold is for having
people understand that whatthey're doing needs to be
changed based on the riskassessment that we do.

(04:39):
It's hard to convey to themunless something very serious
happens.
You know, uh, it's, uh, I haveseen, and you know what, I'm,
I'm open to feedback here.
I'm, you know, we have our newplatform.
You can go give voice messages.
You can send me an email.
You can call me.
I'd love to talk.

(04:59):
It's your opinions and thoughtson it, because how do you deal
with people that are like that?
Because honestly, the only waythat I have seen to, I'll say
not the only way, but the mosteffective way for them to come
around is when there's somebodywho's actually been seriously
hurt in the workplace.
And then they, Something clicksin their mind because until then

(05:21):
it's all theoretical.
Until then as well, it hasn'thappened here.
It's like when I talk about withthe Legionella and facility
water management plans, it's,it's the Legionella lottery.
It always happens to everybodyelse until it happens to that
person.
And then what are they going todo?
They have to play catch up.
Same thing here.
You have to play catch up.

(05:41):
what do you do with thesescenarios where people think
they know everything, or this ishow they've always done it.
And they don't see a need tochange that.
You need to rate, make yourplan, uh, around the process
that they're doing, which putsan unneeded burden on more
people because in their mind,well, this is how we do it.
This is going to help work andcontinue to do it, but there's

(06:02):
better ways to do it.
There's different ways to do it.
And some people just don't wantto hear that.
Some people, uh, are just sostuck in their ways and there's
no getting around that.
I think we've all encounteredthat.
I remember someone relaying astory to me that, you know,
they, they went to, they wereindustrial hygienists.

(06:23):
They went to go see us, uh, amanufacturing facility and
they'd go in the office.
They, they relayed to me, Ithink it was something every few
months they go in there everysix months or whatever it was.
And it wasn't until someone gotseriously injured at work where
they actually said, to theindustrial hygienist.
All right, come in my office.
Let's have a talk.
But what does it take getting tothat point?

(06:45):
Why does it need to be wheresomeone makes that risk become
reality for others to recognizethat they need to be doing
something?
Wow.
You know, we could probably getin the whole conversation of
psychology here, which is beyondmy expertise and knowledge, but
I'm open to having thisconversation.
This is going to be a shortpodcast, but you know, I'm open

(07:08):
to understanding from y'all.
I'm happy to share that, happyto bring you on, you know, and
maybe it's a podcast where wehave a few different interviews
of people.
How do you deal or have you beensuccessful dealing with those
people that are so stuck intheir ways that they will not do
something until someone getsseriously hurt?

(07:29):
It's a hard thing.
And again, it happens toeverybody else, not happen to
them until it does.
Hope everyone enjoyed this shortbut meaningful podcast today.
It's, I think, a goodconversation starter.
Happy to have a conversationwith you.
As always, email, phone call,send a voice message on our new

(07:50):
website.
Let's see where maybe we can putour heads together and figure
out how we can address theseproblems of people think that
they know everything, thatthey're set in their ways, that
they don't want the help thatthey're actually asking for.
Tell something seriously.
to an employee or someone thatthey love.
Hope you enjoy this and I'lllook forward to seeing you on

(08:13):
the next podcast soon.
Thanks so much.
Take care.
Thank you for listening to theExposure Scientist podcast.
You can connect with us at ourwebsite, exposureconsulting.com,
where you can book a privateconsultation and send in any
questions regarding any episodesor our guests.
See you on the next episode.