'28 Years Later' is One of the Great Horror Movies of the Decade

Episode Transcript
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(00:14):
Music. Hello.
Welcome to the extra credits of Danny Boyles in Alex Garland's
28 Years Later. I'm Trey.
And I'm Kelsey. This movie rules.
Yes, it's awesome. A pretty incredible theater
experience. I am genuinely surprised at how

(00:34):
good this is. This film seamlessly balances so
many tones. It's horrifying, it's thrilling,
it's emotional, it is sometimes very strangely funny, has a
great sense of humor. It's everything a horror movie
fan should want. It's experimental.
It's tense, it has great subtext, it's politically

(00:55):
charged and very atmospheric. And it's Danny Boyle, so it's
hyper stylistic. I really love this movie.
I'm so excited to talk about it.Same.
I know and it's weird like I, I think I really appreciate the
tonal shifts that we talked about in our 28 days later,
right episode that we did just like yesterday.

(01:18):
So, yeah, we were talking about the tonal shifts within that,
the humor that is embedded in that movie, and then also kind
of the sincerity and that is kept here, but kind of dialed up
to be more of a, you know, a larger scale movie that it is.
Yeah. But it still feels like grounded
in a way that I thought they they did really well.

(01:38):
So I'm pumped to talk about thismovie today.
Yes, this is a lot of movies, sospoilers ahead for the rest of
the episode, but to go off with Kelsey saying.
If you have not seen the film yet and do you want to get re
caught up with the franchise. I recommend watching the first
two films again 28 days and 28 weeks.
But we did just record a bonus episode on this franchise and 28
days later just yesterday and that episode is available for

(02:01):
free right now. If you check the description of
this episode, you'll see our Patreon link where you can sign
up as a free member and get instant access to that
conversation along with other deep dives on pretty great
movies. We just released an episode
because of Garland writing the screenplay for this movie on
Civil War, which was an almost 3hour conversation on a very
complicated or not complicated movie.

(02:23):
Where if you like Garland or have liked his previous projects
or have liked all of his movies,the 1st 45 minutes of that
episode is, I think, pretty insightful about our feelings on
his writing. Yeah, definitely.
The last two hours are basicallya deep dive in that movie.
Yeah. And I think that episode like
specifically we had just like recently watched his whole
filmography from like Ex Machina, Annihilation Men, and

(02:46):
we're really using a lot of examples to talk about like what
is the Alex Garland project? So if you want a kind of like
deep dive on that, yeah, the first 45 is a really good, I
think our our our understanding with examples from his
filmography. Yes, plus other episodes for
free members such as Asteroid City, Creed, Mission Impossible,

(03:07):
and Past Live. So just check the description
for the link to that Patreon account.
OK so 28 years later I want to ask this question to start off
because this is a legacy sequel.Do you think it is necessary to
rewatch days and weeks before seeing this or was it helpful
for you too? Because we did.

(03:27):
Yeah, that's a good question. I don't think it's necessary for
this first movie at least. But I mean, obviously, like we
know and this is not a spoiler for the trilogy, but Killian
Murphy and Naomi Harris are going to probably show up in
this new trilogy. So like, yes, it definitely

(03:49):
watch 28 Days Later, right? And also, you know, it's also
Boyle and Garland in their firstkind of attempt in this.
And you can see a lot of the thesimilar themes that they are
exploring in that movie in this new like, you know, revamping
the the franchise. I think though, for 28 weeks,

(04:11):
that's the one that's not necessarily you have to watch
it. I think it would be interesting
because even though it's not made by the the same, you know,
creators, there is some conversation around like what
you called it right, the force majeure of zombie movies, which
is great. And I think there is some
conversation too with like the idea of possibly some people

(04:36):
being immune right in this new movie or the idea of like what
the infection is and who are theinfected.
Like I think that's interesting.I also think in terms of the
like the dad commentary, that isalso very much in this new movie
28 years later. So not necessary for this first

(04:56):
movie, but like if someone's just going to to check it out.
But definitely would deepen yourexperience and needs to be a
watch before you watch anything else in the trilogy for 28 days.
So I would say yes, watch that. But 28 weeks is like if you're
not into the maximalism edit editing like me.
Still, I would suggest checking it out, but it's not like you

(05:18):
have to. What do you think?
I say watch them both. I say make it a fun three
nights. 28 Days Later is a digital age fever dream of a
movie. And yes, it is a grounded
apocalyptic zombie movie, but it's also deeply intimate and
human and has these larger critiques about military power

(05:38):
and patriarchy. And so that's like an obvious,
like necessary watch. But I actually like 28 Weeks
Later. I know it's sort of divisive,
even though that maximalism can be a lot sometimes.
There's a lot of fun experimental choices in there
that are just expanding on what 28 Days Later was doing.
And it also has some interestingideas about occupation and
surveillance culture in the government.
And then 28 years Later obviously is, you know, for

(06:02):
those of us who've watched it, because we're in spoiler
territory now, is less interested in infection as much
as it is kind of like ideology and myth making and belief
systems. And you know, there's like
familiar DNA here thematically because of Garland's ambitions
in the first movie and how the writers in the second film
expand on that and also boils kinetic direction in the first

(06:22):
movie being expanded on throughout these films.
But this third movie to me is really special as a kind of
legacy sequel because it's not very typical.
It's very weird. As you said, even though there
are echoes and images from 28 Days and Weeks, this movie does
mutate everything that we find familiar about this franchise
now. And I think it was pretty clear
from the trailer that we got a couple months ago.

(06:44):
One of the best trailers in likerecent memory.
I agree it was really haunting especially with that use of the
Kipling like World War One poem boots that they use again in the
movie. This kind of like relentless
hypnotic rhythm that really setsthe vibe for the entire movie
and what this trilogy is going to become.

(07:04):
And the story that's unfolding in front of us being about the
militarization of these people'slives and their cultural
memories, their cultural myths and the different ways that
violence is becoming ritualized in the cultures that we're
watching. There's a lot of interstitial
imagery in this that is both historical and within the
reality of this post apocalypticsetting that we're in throughout
this movie. So there's a lot of that to talk

(07:26):
about. I found the politics to be so
layered in this movie. I don't want to over
intellectualize it because so much of it is like a a young
character journey for this 12 year old boy and it is like a
sort of coming of age movie while also being this this
larger awakening to the. There are moments that feel like
a fucked up Disney movie. That's exactly how I felt.
Yeah. I, I referenced in my notes like

(07:48):
a few times like this feels likeLion King or whatever there a
Wizard of Oz. It did feel like a dark fairy
tale sometimes that was really successful.
And in the middle of it is just this kind of like crazy zombie
apocalypse. It's just really insane.
And you know, the best zombie movies.
We talked about this on our 28 Days Later episode.
From Romero to now Boyle, to TV shows like The Walking Dead or

(08:12):
video games that have become very popular, like The Last of
Us, that are now TV shows themselves.
All these stories that these film makers explore are about
survival, but they're also abouthistory.
They're about who the oppressed is and why are they oppressed.
Who is oppressing them? And 28 Years Later is so
incredibly stylized as it's likehorror picture and it is like a
$60 million horror blockbuster, which is very rare in this

(08:35):
genre. And it's chaotically shot and
edited. So it's experimental do and it's
but with all those ideas in mind, it's not really
pretentious. And that's what's so special
about it to me because it has all this like heart and the
family drama of it all about this 12 year old kid raised in
isolation who's having this likepatient awakening.
So there's just, you know, there's so much to talk about.
I'm going to do a quick synopsison this movie before we get

(08:56):
deeper into the the narrative. Yeah, that'd be helpful because
also we should say we saw this movie like an hour ago.
We're just jumping on the mic. So this is a true like reaction
episode, but we will kind of deep dive it and go through the
plot. But that would, I think, be
helpful for me. So we have an always awesome

(09:16):
Aaron Taylor Johnson who is starring in this film playing
Jamie, who is a scavenger and heis trying to protect his family
and his his wife, who is played by a very powerful Jodie Comer
in this movie who is battling this mysterious illness that's
affecting her memory. And their son Spike is played by
a younger actor who I'm not familiar with named Alfie

(09:38):
Williams. Who I thought did a great job,
just so good. I was so surprised, yeah.
Truly like a really charming actor in this and was like doing
the he was doing the coming of age 12 to 13 year old bit
really, really well because these are these are very
archetypal characters and they're playing with tropes and
Garland is very successful at this, but he is in the most like

(10:00):
disaster, like the biggest disaster setting you've ever
seen a 12 or 13 year old being in one of these kind of genre
films. And so we see Jamie's character,
the father, as it's like hardened, pragmatic, brutal
survivor figure who is sort of akind of protective defender more
than he is a reflective parent. And this is where Comer's

(10:21):
character comes into play, wherethe mother figure seems to be
suffering from like dementia or something else.
We learned it's cancer eventually.
So she is dying and Spike, the sun is kind of caught in the
middle of this, I guess, vision in his household and his dad
having a midlife crisis because of what's happening to his
partner. And Spike also sees this,

(10:44):
there's this alternate reality that his father is living in
where he has this other partner,his school teacher or what we
assume to be his school teacher.And so we see Spike kind of
living in this closed system of information.
He doesn't seem to know too muchabout what's going on in the
outside world. It's kind of desperate to know
what's true, desperate to know what's going on with his mother
and how to help her. And after the kind of world

(11:07):
building of the village, which is very cool.
And the character introduction, yeah, in the 1st 45 ish minutes,
we inevitably get a lot of zombies.
And then we get Ray Fines in this movie.
So great. Who is eccentric in playing a
doctor? This is probably my favorite Ray
Fiennes performance in a long time.

(11:28):
It honestly maybe since like Grand Budapest, like this is a
really it's he's only on screen for like 6-7 minutes, feels like
6-7 minutes, but he's so memorable and he's he's dialed
down in conclave, even though I love what he's getting up to in
that movie. They're they let him finds it up
and get into some strange behavior.
When it's funny you brought up Grand Budapest because it is

(11:50):
like almost a W character, right?
This like gentle, earnest, like caring figure that is kind of
injected into this movie that you don't expect because of
everyone you've met so far. Yeah, he is a survivor who He's
a doctor, but he also believes the infected deserve dignity.
And the village has created all these stories about him as being

(12:13):
just kind of like, I don't know,this maniac who's been burning
bodies and collecting them in rows.
And there's like a great kind offlashback sequence.
Aaron Teller Johnson, again, it feels like a fairy tale is
telling a story, this myth to his son, trying to create the
boogeyman out of him, when really it's a Wizard of Oz
moment. When we meet him, he's just like
hello, like just like a a normalguy.

(12:33):
Yeah. And they also use that imagery
like similar to what he did in Civil War.
So I wonder if it was something that was like written into the
script for both things. Where Where I was going to say
Landry. Landry where?
He has, like, bodies lined up. Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, why? Would Jesse Plummets?
Thank you. Yeah.

(12:54):
Yeah, I love Jesse Plummets. It took me a.
Second, yeah, but. With his, like, rose colored
glasses, right. Just like lining bodies into
this, like, pit. What kind of American are you?
Yeah. Yeah.
One of the the most terrifying sequences of a movie.
I didn't really love but and youcan go back and listen to us
talk about why in detail. But but yeah, it seems like a

(13:14):
similar thing, which was funny, especially if you have watched
or followed the like Garland project to have that in
conversation. But this guy is like harmless
and actually caring. Yeah.
He's. Kind of a moral compass, the
first moral person we've really met so far in this story when we
meet him like an hour and 20 into the movie.
And this is kind of where Spike the the boy begins to question

(13:37):
everything he knows about the mainland, question everything he
knows about his own isolated village.
And it's a it's a really a greatjourney.
It feels almost built for like, how you're saying like a dark
Disney movie for teenagers to watch and then for adults to
play with all these more political nuanced ideas in the
backdrop with all these interstitial images from
historical conflicts or wars to then more recent imagery that is

(14:01):
also very kind of like troublingabout national isolationism and
like regressive politics. And then at the end of the
movie, we get sort of an epilogue where we meet Jack
O'Connell, who is playing, I think, a man named Jimmy, which
is foreshadowed throughout the the movie as somebody to.

(14:22):
Someone's back. Also written on the side of a
building. At one point, yeah.
So Jimmy is like a cult, like Clockwork Orange, Teletubby
warlord. He also happens to be the little
boy from the prologue, which we're about to jump into, I
think. And he's sort of like, it seems

(14:42):
to be he's created like a deranged religion.
And the movie takes like the biggest tonal jump of the film
where it turns into like a Mad Max film, like a George Miller
movie in terms of like the elevated dystopian, post
apocalyptic cult deranged group of people led by this fascist
leader. I don't know.
He could be a protagonist in thefuture films.

(15:04):
I have no idea. I don't know.
Yeah, maybe. Do you want to talk about that
with the opening scene? Because yeah, let's jump.
Into the movie I. Loved the kind of like
iconography from our childhood, specifically of opening up this
movie with the Teletubbies. OK, we're watching the
Teletubbies like as the the kindof like final title right of the
movie is, is dissolving on screen.

(15:28):
We get Teletubby music. Like, are you kidding me?
I this Teletubbies aired like during our childhood.
And so it was a very like strange nostalgia, yeah moment
where these kids are watching this in Scotland, right?
And they're all being placed in a room.
Like one kid is crying. There's you hear, you know,

(15:49):
these kids are like locked in this room and you hear just like
all these footsteps, right? Obviously panicked throughout
the house. And then Jimmy, who is sitting
there, right, the only boy. I think is sitting there the
blonde. Boy, right, His mom comes in at
one point, drops off another kidor whatever and says stay here,
be quiet, right? Like asks everyone in the room

(16:11):
to not leave a pretty simple order OK when it sounds like
chaos is happening outside. Which I think you really smartly
pointed out was kind of in conversation with the 28 weeks
later commentary a little bit here in 20. 8 days but just
these movies kind of commenting on the fragility of masculinity

(16:34):
and like young boys who are trapped in like bigger man's
bodies and never take responsibility and are like
entitled and we don't know anything about Jimmy.
But but all of these movies 28 days later about the neo Nazi
military regime at the end of that film or 28 weeks later
about the very weak father who leaves his his wife at the
beginning of that movie and thaticonic opening sequence and then

(16:57):
can't admit that to his childrenand stalks them for the rest of
the movie as a zombie, which we'll get back come back to, I
think. And then here with Jimmy as a
young boy who has one order, goes up to the door, asks, you
know, Dad, I think is what he says, and then leaves the room.
Proceeds for all the. Little girls in the room to get
massacred by the zombies, Yeah. So yeah.
Which was? Pretty like wild to see blood,

(17:18):
like splattered on a Teletubby scene.
Yeah, let's talk about the Teletubbies.
But let's stay on. The Teletubbies is a really.
Important over read them for a second.
Yeah, OK. So.
Number one, I think that the Teletubbies is actually a really
interesting addition here. If you follow us on Instagram,
we will share a post of a picture of of us how we dressed

(17:41):
up for as Teletubbies this past Halloween as a whole thing
reading. Now I was Tinky Winky, I had my
red purse, Troy was Dipsy and wehad some other friends Lala and
Poe. Anyway, so we we were sitting in
this bar on Halloween and there was an older gentleman who just
kind of walked up to us and, youknow, telling us about his life.

(18:05):
But he asked us. He asked.
US. We sat down at our table as they
do asked us like what are the like what are you guys and what
are the Teletubbies? What does?
This symbolize we had. To, like, explain to him what
the Teletubbies were. We were like, essentially, they
are these like, grown up babies living in community with one

(18:26):
another and like, have a great schedule.
OK. They're like eating tubby
custard. They have praying to the.
Sun God, Yeah, they. Have specific like, you know,
activities throughout the day kind of wandering though, like
and and frolicking. It's sort of a utopia.
They're. Remote workers, yeah, they're
going to stay in one house. Yeah, yeah, and yeah.

(18:46):
And most importantly though, I think for this movie that I
think Garland might think is funny, I think so is that.
Yeah. They worship a sun God baby.
Yeah. They're also in a cult.
OK. So that's number one.
It seems they they've created. A religion and based off the sun
God. And it seems that our boy here
will remember these Teletubbies forever to create his own.

(19:09):
Exactly. OK, group of worship.
The second thing, while we're just like in this room with the
Teletubbies, I love that when weleave the scene and we're kind
of first introduced to Spike, right?
We see that he is packing for his big day off the island and
he has a little Power Ranger, right?
The like Red Ranger, and he decides not to take him with

(19:32):
him. But I thought, you know, and
this could be again, let's really read into Teletubbies and
Power Rangers. But because this was our
childhood, I think that it was so interesting for me to be
like, OK, the tubbies, the the worshipping tubbies and then the
Power Ranger like image. I also was thinking, well, if

(19:53):
you know, Spike has never seen as we learn like any of these
programs. So he doesn't know what the
Internet is and but we have a relationship to Power Rangers.
And so I love when we see Jimmy at the end of the movie.
All grown up Jimmy right his like band of people right are

(20:13):
kind of shot as yeah that I think Boyle or.
Yeah, Boyle does call them the jimmies, but is shot exactly how
I remember like Power Rangers being directed.
Did you also have that experience when they're?
Killing the zombies in a very kind of like, Saw, like way.
Yeah. But they're being shot like
they're in a Power Rangers film.Yes.

(20:34):
It was so disorienting for me. And it finally came full circle
in terms of like Garland using all of this childhood
storytelling and myth making to then put in this adult zombie
elevated genre film that's like a $60 million movie.
Because he also has imagery and nods to Attack on Titan.
So there's like contemporary stuff.
There's a lot of Wizard of Oz vibes.

(20:56):
Again, I said like The Lion Kingfeels like a big inspiration for
the the which feels so. Weird to think about in a zombie
movie, but yeah, I thought of those things too.
Yeah, and. So there, when you called it a
dark Disney movie, it really does feel almost like a satire
on that level of like mythologizing, coming of age
stories. And Jimmy has been stuck in this
Teletubby world for his entire life, unfortunately.

(21:18):
Yeah. And we'll.
Definitely talk about the other kind of anime or like Attack on
Titan, like direct influences, but but yeah, so I I love that
connection that probably only weor like early millennia Gen.
Z people made who grew up watching Teletubbies and Power
Rangers. But yeah, so then we have a
pretty, like, I, I like the opening sequence here of this

(21:39):
chaos in the House of Jimmy's mom telling him to run, and then
as she's also turning, saying, like, run in the zombie voice,
Right. And then he goes into the
church. Dad is a priest.
Dad's crashing out. Yeah.
And he's like, it's salvation. My children are.
Coming, we did. It, you know, and yeah, we have

(21:59):
that whole moment of him like kind of embracing them while
Jimmy is given this cross that he'll later wear upside down
with his crown. So I'm, I'm pumped to get into
the Jimmy story in this sequel. Maybe we'll we'll talk about
some predictions. Yeah, all his rings.
Like, I like what's going on there with the Jimmies.
So then we actually jump into the movie, it's a crazy

(22:20):
prologue, and 28 Days Later is like, honestly at this point,
known for their crazy prologues.We have one in 28.
Sorry, this franchise is known for it. 28 Days Later has the
animal rights activists. With the.
Chimps who are just watching thenews, getting like, rage baited
from it. And that being a part of the
larger commentary of these stories and Garland being very
obsessed with like tribalism anddivision and ideological

(22:42):
differences between groups. And then 28 weeks later has the
incredible opening like we already talked about with the
father and the mother and him kind of escaping from that the
the zombies crashing into the. House and then.
Now this movie with this openinglike it just the the bar is
high. So I I'm trying to keep like a
relatively like relatively normal expectations for the

(23:03):
future films. But the openings at the very
least, like they got to go big because I mean, these are just
amazing openings. So we jump into the actual
movie, the main narrative, and we arrive in a a very different
setting. We have this fortified island.
It's a tidal island, so it's kind of cut off from the
mainland. And we see this almost like a
land bridge that pops up depending on the tide and that

(23:26):
which is a very cool conceit to they're being kind of, they're
being cut off from the mainland,right?
And I. Also like the the rules that it
establishes in the horror movie,right?
Like, and I know it's directly told to us, but I thought in a
fun way where Aaron Taylor Johnson is having his son repeat
back to him, you know, the lessons that he's told him

(23:46):
about, like when they can and can't use the bridge when
there's a tide. And I thought I, I really
enjoyed like the rules being said to us just how he does in
like 28 days later, right? I think Naomi Harris, yes,
outlines the rules for killing Murphy's character Selena.
Yeah, she tells him. Like what he like, he has to
like, kill people immediately when they're bitten and all that
stuff. Hang on.
Killian Murphy's character's name is Jim, Correct?

(24:09):
Jimmy's OK. Oh.
Interesting. We're going to learn that
Jimmy's God is Jim Killian. Murphy's going to return in the
sequel, OK? And also the other thing is I
was wondering, and then we'll move on from Jimmy, OK, But I
was wondering if Aaron Taylor Johnson was that kid.
Oh, the whole time. I thought he was.
Yeah, I. Mean, I know that he was blonde,
but like, I don't know. I don't know.

(24:29):
Yeah. So, yeah.
So. But I, I was wondering that the
whole time because they did showlike crosses in the house.
So yeah, yeah. So we get kind of immersed into
this isolationist community and you're the the whole
introduction to this community. And Aaron Taylor Johnson is sort
of a subversion because you realize that this community is

(24:50):
sort of cultish, cultish themselves, except their
cultishness is sort of romanticized and they just call
it history. And we'll get into that a little
bit. And we meet 12 year old Spike
again, played by Alfie Williams.He's wonderful.
And he wakes up to the toy. It's the morning of his first
big hunt. He leaves the toy as if leaving
his adolescence or innocence behind, which I thought was

(25:11):
great. Just imagery.
Garland's very accessible like that.
He's like not afraid to be very direct and transparent about
theme and he's just, he lets it be digestible, which I really
appreciate about that, that kindof writing in a movie like this.
That was also. Something that he did with
Killian's character and 28 Days Later, I think that you pointed
out that was a little more subtle, but I like it here.
The character is so young. Killian Murphy's.

(25:31):
Character Jim kills a little zombie boy and a little zombie
boy kind of shouts out, and we'll come back to that idea.
But he's like killing a past version of himself or killing
his innocent self. That was really good writing.
Spike's father, Jamie again, is kind of the villages like
unofficial protector who people seem to idolize across the
community. And there's a great Well, he's

(25:51):
the. Hottest one?
Well, that's very. Clear he's wearing a lot of
layers but you can see like thisguy is Jack when he's cooking
those eggs I'm like just show usthe forearms.
Come on, Aaron Taylor Johnson. And yeah, you're getting, I got
a little bit of like Lion King vibes here.
When we see Mufasa go on a hunt with Simba and the whole Lion
King crew is like, oh, it's symbols like first day in the

(26:13):
hunt. He's like training, like to be
like his father and I, That seemed to be sort of what they
were doing with Spike here, which is pretty interesting.
And also later in the movie whenthey're hiding in the attic and
Jamie is telling Spike, like, look at the village from this
horizon. You can see like our home.
And it reminded me when they're on private rock.
Oh, yeah, Everything that the sun touches is yours.
Yeah. And you know, symbols like all

(26:35):
of that, really. Wow.
I also thought that was really interesting too.
Like, you know, we're introducedto so much, which I like, you
know, having everything all at once to establish the setting
and the characterization in thisfamily.
But I, yeah, I think it was a subversion at first because
since everyone was being So I guess they're idolizing Aaron

(26:56):
Taylor Johnson's character. I was like, oh, are we also
supposed to be like, this is this good guy?
He's kind of like the the rock of this community he's looked up
to for a good reason. I was like how?
Conventional. Is this going to be right?
Like, yeah, I didn't understand.And also because, like, Spike at
this moment is looking up to him.
And so that made it confusing for me when we, I mean, we do

(27:18):
see a little tension between momand him, right?
Where he is like not all he, he's not like trying to tell her
the truth. He's also like being unkind.
And it seems like he's frustrated when he's like, I
told you, like, you know, we're,we're going off to the mainland
and he's not going to school. And then we have Spike, although
we'll talk about this, but I don't like the the idea of like

(27:40):
Spike, even though he's comforting her in that moment to
say I'm going to school. It still felt like a
condescending moment because I didn't know where they were
going with the Jodie Comer character.
But, but so I guess what my point is with Aaron Taylor
Johnson's character is once we get into the forest and they're
doing the the kind of track before we even see the zombies

(28:01):
or the infected, we have that cut between the like poem and
different war training footage of different cultures.
And I, I didn't understand tonally what it was doing there.
And now I'm, you know, reflecting on it after seeing
the whole movie, I understand they were like playing with this
idea of Aaron Taylor Johnson's character as its heroic figure

(28:21):
and father figure. But that was I thought that was
really good because I was surprised then when Spike or at
least like interested when Spikestarted to understand that he
was living with like these kind of sad adults who were
mythologizing this experience. You saw even as as they were
trekking out and as everyone's like congratulating them, we

(28:45):
also see them setting up for thewelcome back party.
So it's like I think it says welcome home Spike.
So this means that this ritual that they're doing with young
boys is somewhat performative, right?
Because they already are settingup the party and the sign.
If it were that much of A risk, then it seems like they wouldn't
be doing that right? They'd be a little bit more

(29:05):
worried you. Identified it as as it being
sort of similar to the Wicker Man.
Which I think is a. Really spot well especially.
With the the like masks, yes. Yeah, we'll get to some like.
Eerie stranger masks garlands. Just really good at being
critical of patriarchs. Like, he's really good at that.
I mean, made a whole movie aboutit called Men.
Yeah, which is very divisive, but like, he's very good at

(29:27):
identifying like patriarch figures and then deconstructing
them in really successful ways. This is probably most surprising
one because it is like a more conventional big budget
blockbuster. I know it's Danny Boyle
directing it, obviously, and that's a credit to Boyle, who's
also good at that. He does that and even big
blockbusters in his own right, like Steve Jobs, you know,
obviously with Fassbender's character.

(29:47):
But yeah, that's really well done with that character.
We could talk about Jodie Comer,who is just like incredible in
this film. And Comer is one of the great
actresses of her generation, gave one of the best
performances of the twenty 20s in Ridley Scott's movie.
Yep, Last stool. And she's back here.
And she plays a small role at first that I was kind of
frustrated by and then has a larger role that I was like

(30:08):
happy to see and then dies at the end of the movie in a really
tragic way. And you can speak to that more
than I can because I left for half of that scene, annoyingly.
But we'll, we'll get to that. Well, let's talk about when
we're introduced to her. So we see that she's suffering
from a mysterious illness at 1stand she has migraines, she's got
memory loss, there's hallucinations.
My first thought was there's some kind of disease.

(30:30):
She was riddled with some kind of disease.
And then she is again, like exceptional in this role in
playing these different emotionsand different psychologies from
moment to moment. But I was worried like you at
1st. I was like, Oh no, is this going
to be like a really trophy set up here?
Yeah, like. This woman with hysteria, Yes.
Yes, exactly you can take. The real world or like the, I

(30:53):
guess the post world, yeah. Like this hysterical woman with
emotional outburst who hates herhard working husband and like,
yeah. And makes him feel bad about
himself even though he's writtento be like, very nuanced and
sympathetic. But Garland sort of sidesteps
that by giving her an actual illness that we're trying to
figure out mid movie and her sonis trying to figure out.
And she's given moments later inthe the movie when she's on this

(31:15):
journey with her son to breathe as a human being.
And it's like, you know, talkingabout her history with her
father and her relationship to the mainland and asking
questions about what his relationship to his dad is and
not knowing. And I thought that was really
like a way to humanize her in really smart ways.
It was really subtle writing. I was still a little bit

(31:36):
frustrated that she was ultimately stuck with this
illness and and she's cancer. And I never really, I never, it
was smart in terms of I never thought about a character in
this universe, the 28 universe getting, I guess sidelined with
an illness that we have in our modern world and like our actual
reality because I'm so much moreworried about everybody being

(31:57):
infected. Yeah.
So it is pretty good writing. To bring the gravity of, like,
not having a cure for cancer into this, like, dystopian world
because that is also this like, dystopian in her life.
I mean, she can't get treated oranything.
There's no surgeries. But yeah.
But like, there are moments where she calls the Swedish guy
a Dick or when she saves her sonfrom the zombie while he's

(32:17):
sleeping. And I like the idea that she had
like this physical muscle memory, even if she could not
remember that she saved her own son.
And I was like, Oh my God, can she pick up a bow and arrow and
be a badass? Is that like why Aaron Taylor
Johnson fell in love with her? Like, is she one of the badasses
of the camp? Is she like another defender?
And I like this idea of like herprotecting her son throughout
this movie. And I started making up that
idea in my mind in which she inevitably becomes like the baby

(32:40):
carrier who's like, sick. I was like, so that's like
probably my major criticism of this movie is that Jodie Comer
so good. And the things that Garland was
doing with her, like being surprisingly like, well skilled
enough to like take out a zombie.
The fact that he didn't lean into that more instead brought
this baby into the narrative, which is interesting.

(33:00):
We can get to that in terms of the zombie being pregnant, which
is wild. Even zombie woman have it really
tough. Yeah, I, I was just disappointed
ultimately that he didn't lean into the her being a more
subversive character, instead just being kind of like having
this illness. Yeah, I thought it was the
weakest part of the script too. And again, like I I think
ultimately coming out, I was a little bit less annoyed by the

(33:23):
character because I was immediately kind of frustrated
and worried about her character.And especially because I didn't
know exactly how Aaron Taylor Johnson's character was supposed
to be looked at. I still don't think he's
supposed to be looked at as a villain, which is, you know,
it's just like a grounded person.
Yeah, who is obviously, like, struggling, right, emotionally

(33:45):
with this, like, new reality. And.
But I think that it's like not as sympathetic to him, right.
And ultimately kind of reveals, right, like of the the as the
son kind of shifts his understanding of his father and
like looking up to him as this perfect being protector, He also

(34:06):
was able to see his, like, mom more clearly.
And so I felt, I thought that was like at least a a better
turn. Yeah.
No, I agree. And again, like Homer's
performance is like so present and affecting that she ends up
doing what's not on the script, you know, successfully.
So by the end of act one, we seethat we're now going into the

(34:28):
woods basically, right? Go into the mainland and we get
the, you know, if Danny Boyle was given $60 million to make a
28 Days Later movie, what would he do with his stylistic film
making? And we get a lot with it.
There's a lot of flair right away.
We get introduced to new crawlers, new infected that are
called like bloat, the bloated. And they're large, they're slow,

(34:51):
and they're good to practice on for hunting.
And the way that Aaron Taylor Johnson is like performing this
with the sun is if he's treatinghim out of hunt deer or
something. Yes, which is interesting.
We also see that the. Which.
Yeah. Later we'll see, like Ray finds
character is like viewing the infected as human.
So that's like the juxtapositionof these two kind of journeys

(35:11):
that he has, yes. The but these kind of.
Father figures ish. Well, that.
Is, I mean, Garland talks about on the 28 Days Later commentary
on the DVD, which luckily we own, he talks about how he's
really interested in found family father figures and how
most men really struggle with their fathers.
And they're actually closer in his experiences to like found

(35:31):
fathers, whether they're in storytelling or whether and
they're in real life. And like actual patriarch
figures are complicated to him. And so that's why he
continuously comes back to that idea.
So that's interesting. But yeah, what do you think
about the way this movie shot? There's no one way to describe
it. It's like all.
It's truly all over the place ina really experimental and fun
way. Like, even when the spike is

(35:52):
shooting bows and arrows for thefirst time at the bloated,
there's like freeze frames on the shots going into the neck
that are just sick. And they're video game coded,
but in a really engaging way. Did you like it?
Yeah. I mean, I, I think I would just
like the kind of like freshness of the the different angles that
we got. Like he did this in 28 Days
later, too. But shooting from the ground,

(36:14):
like shooting behind a branch tosee infected run.
Yeah. Like this was something that was
all over the place, but in a good way, yeah.
The editing also is like, reallykind of tactile and surreal.
It has its own language. They're cutting between, like,
handheld intimacy, between, like, the digital iPhone
clarity. If you didn't know the iPhone

(36:34):
images, though, you wouldn't know this Was Sean, an iPhone?
Yeah. Does that make sense?
I mean, I know the iPhones are hooked up to these big
filmmaking contraptions that areworth far more than an iPhone
is, but it's still impressive that he was able to do this.
It's not like Sean Baker shooting, you know, right.
Like when you see the behind. The scenes of like Florida
project, like in some of the I guess the end sequence with the

(36:56):
rainbow, like he's literally shooting that on an iPhone, like
kneeling down to get the characters or all of.
Tangerine yeah, which is insane.But yeah, I I thought the
filmmaking was really interesting.
The the cinematic language was really trying to work to
heighten the tension and disorient us a lot, but not
enough to lose our emotional investments.
That was really well done. The biggest evolution of what we

(37:19):
learned about the infected in this forest as the father and
son are hunting is we meet a newbreed of infected called the
Alpha. This was awesome.
This was such a cool, I won't say invention, but injection of
a character that we're sort of familiar with, a mold that we're
sort of familiar with as like a horror audience.

(37:40):
Well, do you want to talk? About the Attack on Titan
influence, yeah. So Alex Garland in the pressed
for his last or you know, 3 movies ago, men from about 3 or
4 years ago talked about how thehorror sequences in that movie
were inspired by Attack on Titan.
Yeah, the like. Body horror sequences.
We won't spoil it, but you probably know what we're talking
about. I think he has.

(38:00):
A daughter in high school and she was watching Attack on
Titan. He said, like, what is this?
This looks so cool. And then he started watching it
and he was like, Oh yeah, this is like also one of the smartest
shows I've ever seen. And as an Attack on Titan fan, I
can vouch for the show. It is like a deeply intelligent
about like the rise and falls ofempires or isolationism.
And you can definitely feel the inspiration and influence on

(38:21):
like The Last of Us in Attack onTitan or Walking Dead on 28
years later, this movie and Garland's writing.
But yeah, so the alpha for me asa fan, what was really cool was
like watching how this towering figure had this like a group of
smaller infected that he would just send in to make basically
his prey weaker. So then he can come in sprinting

(38:44):
at them and take them out, whichis essentially what the Titan
does or will like what the big Titans do in Attack on Titan,
which is pretty cool. And yeah, I mean, it's a pretty
it's it's everything with the Titan is pretty harrowing.
Like, there's that at one point,I think like 1520 minutes later
into the movie after we're introduced the Titan and we see
some hiding from the father and son in the attic of that house.

(39:06):
It's all really good, tense filmmaking in this runaway sequence
of him running out of bows whiletrying to train his son how to
like, you know, wild mid combat,learn how to shoot bow and
arrows, which is a choice. And Aaron Taylor Johnson's
character is really a fascinating protagonist.
He's flawed, like we said, morally, but in terms of like
the way he is sort of taking a alot of chances here and in terms

(39:28):
of like putting him and his son survival out there and
potentially being murdered mid training.
And when they're running away, they're trying to escape, you
have the massive alpha chasing them down, which I think is the
greatest set piece in the movie you're talking.
About specifically when the large.
Alphas chasing them on the land bridge on the.

(39:49):
Land bridge, yeah, I think showing the kind of it looks so
mythic, right? Like and kind of like an anime,
which obviously like it's inspired, but the the feet,
right, The splashing the water and then watching from a zoomed
out view of like the the splashing water of them around
them as they run to see how far away the alpha is from from

(40:11):
them. Yeah, that was really cool.
And there was a lot of tension there.
So I skipped over the fact that back in the attic shelter, Spike
notices a strange fire burning in the distance.
Oh, right. Jamie identifies it as Doctor
Ian Kelson, who is played by RayFines, who've already talked
about. But he is, you know, we learn
later that he's this kind of like legendary local legend,

(40:34):
hermit scientist who lives out there, who's doing weird things
to the zombies, the infected. And he's kind of playing like a
subversion on a Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, where we
think we're going to meet him and he's going to be like this
big bad murderer, this final boss character, like this blend
of like an infected and a human.Or at least that's what I was
thinking in my head. I was like, what's he going to

(40:54):
be like? Because Ray Finds is a big guy.
I was like, we're going to lean into him as villain, which is
interesting because he does villains quite often, more
Voldemort like fascists, Like he's good at that.
Instead, he's like just a nice guy.
He's kind of lost his mind a little bit, but he's not
paranoid or anything like the villages.
So that was an interesting kind of lower drop there.
Then we go back to the village. There's a massive party to

(41:15):
celebrate Spike's well before. We get to the party.
Did you think that during this like sequence where they go out
to hunt, that Aaron Taylor Johnson's character might die?
They kept showing him with his back open to all these doors.
I was like, why are you? You know, I know he's like
teaching his son, but it felt like he was far too trusting of
the spaces they were entering. They were nodding to that a

(41:36):
couple times. I think they were probably
trying to play with us, but theyalso wanted to let us know who
this guy was, which is that likehe is, he's having a little bit
of a crisis, you know, and he has like a little bit of like an
adrenaline junkie vibe to him. And I think they were trying to
also mess with us that this could be the kid.
So maybe he's just been living out there by himself, the kid
from the prologue. And so he really is like, he's

(41:58):
him, like he's that guy. Like he can do anything.
And it's also Aaron Taylor Johnson.
So we're thinking about him or like this guy could could be
James Bond 2 years from now. He's also like a Marvel or DC,
whatever superhero now. So yeah, I thought he could get
killed. Yeah.
I I felt like they were, I mean,obviously they did that with the
one infected coming up right behind him as he's teaching his

(42:19):
son to shoot someone. And I think like, so they were
obviously just trying to create tension there and keep us on our
toes at the opening of this movie.
But I also think it's like pretty, pretty important to say
that the dad like kept just repeating different versions of
like, it'll get easier to kill and that's why I'm having you

(42:39):
kill. So like, you know, I maybe need
a little bit longer to think about it since we saw it an hour
ago. But there is that juxtaposition
between the refines character oflike again have everyone should
have dignity in their death and just in general and thinking
about a cure, right, because he doesn't kill the alpha when we

(42:59):
meet him. He likes to dates him and I
think that is probably a nod to him looking for a cure.
But this idea that the dad is trying to protect him without
having a really a reason of a why besides just like self
preservation and having something that seems logical of
saying like what if you just keep killing?

(43:21):
It will get easier. And so I just want to basically
harden you and make you I guess the less empathetic or you know,
like that was kind of think kindof the commentary there with
this like particular father figure.
Yeah, I know. Well.
Said, yeah, I mean, the father figure becomes, I guess more, I
guess the idea or the illusion of the father for the figure as

(43:44):
this like protector and like this kind of glorified figure
become shattered. Later at the party where the
spike is so confused about why his dad is saying that he did
all these things. He killed all these zombies.
He took out the alpha whatever giant.
Killer. Yeah, his dad.
'S mythologizing it, thinking every.
Shot mid. Reality for Spike and he's sort
of having a little bit of his own kind of awakening

(44:06):
politically about what's happening around him.
And now all of a sudden this village that was so welcoming of
Spike and excited for his day, he ends this day looking at them
as sort of like a cult. Like we see it from his point of
view and seeing his like his basically massive found family.
There is this, like cult, which will be interesting to see how
he then interacts with an actualcult at the end of the movie
going into the second film. And yeah, what do you think

(44:30):
about this? Kind of like candlelit religious
iconography on walls. Like creepy party.
Yeah, I think, I mean you already talked about it, but the
Wicker Man, like I know that wasan influence I think right.
For I know it was for Ari Astor like Midsummer, but it the Green
Man also like shows up there andalso on men.

(44:52):
Wicker Man's influence on men? Yep.
But yeah, so it felt very much like that, especially the the
kind of minimalism, but still having that interesting culty
vibe in this space. And then I think seeing the
adults kind of dancing around and celebrating Spike while he

(45:13):
is actively saying like, my dad's lying and his dad saying,
no, you're just being modest. And he starts to have this like,
reality break. So I really like that scene,
especially if it's a coming of age story.
It it worked for me in a believable way that we started
with him like loving his dad, admiring his dad so much because
everyone else did too. And it's also what he's learned,

(45:36):
I think about like masculine traits that he should then
inherent and reflect and as he grows older.
But here, like he there's also this moment where everyone is
like drunk dancing that he is like seeing things for what they
really are and kind of, you know, maybe this is me
projecting onto it, but also like the sadness or like lost

(45:59):
rate quality that he's starting to to kind of pick up.
But I was I was also thinking like, I was like, wow, this kids
cool to just be like, no, I wasn't hitting the shots.
Like he was saying that during it too, because his dad was
like, you were doing so well back there.
And he's like, I missed all the shots.
I just was scared. Like he tells his like kind of
grandfather figure right after this.

(46:20):
Like, you know, when he asked how to go, he says, I was mainly
just scared. Yeah.
The humility is a really great, you know, quality in terms of
the character writing because you usually don't see that in a
conventional blockbuster like this with the young protagonist,
especially a boy. Yeah, Then so I think that it
is, you know, it's fascinating what Garland is able to do with

(46:40):
myth making in this movie. It's like a really interesting
idea about how everybody is trying to keep up the appearance
that the history of this island is more important than what its
present or future is, right? It's like really trying to work
on like, how do we secure an idea, a story about what you

(47:00):
know, how how we emerged on thisisland, how we got here.
That's why you're seeing all this imagery of royalty in the
background as if they've existedthere for centuries, thousands
of years. Whatever you see the the poster
or the the stitch quilt of like been here since it's not a
quote, whatever 2002 embroideredkind of the embroidered whatever
since 2002 and 2002 is the release date of 28 days later.

(47:23):
And so like, that's pretty cool in terms of nods to like fans
being like, oh, OK, interesting.So this is truly like just a a
more well established cult that is now just becoming this like,
Kingdom basically, which is just, you know, really
interesting as we're about to enter into this next big chapter
of the movie, which is more of the dark fairy tale.
Yeah. And and just before we move on

(47:44):
from the section, I think in terms of like 28 Days Later, my
extra credit for that movie was how he was able to write a
screenplay where the characters at the very beginning, like
Kelly Murphy was asking about where's the government, like
where's the military and conflating kind of the like
state's power with security. And I think that is like carried

(48:08):
on in a different way here wherewe see the idea of like this
community, but it's really like the idea of this isolationism
and nationalism, Cena's community and like pride.
And so I think that's like an interesting connection between

(48:29):
those two movies. But I think he does it
interestingly in a in a different way.
Yeah. I like that though because the
boy and Jim's character from 28 Days Later become disillusioned
to like the old reality and how like the new military just wants
to keep the past because it actually helps preserve their
status of their identity like the Neo Nazi white soldiers in
the end of 28 Days Later. Needless to episode about what

(48:52):
we mean by that. So we get out into, you know,
the mainland with Jodie Comer and this boy and it it turns
into like a beautifully shot movie at this point.
We're seeing a lot of lush imagery.
We're seeing like the visual palette shift to like these
vibrant greens and golden lightsand nature looks like it's been
reclaimed and isn't as dirty andgrimy.

(49:14):
And Jodie Comer's characters also going through these kind of
like flashbacks to her father and talking about the the
melancholic beauty and the environment of the mainland.
And the imagery is wrapping us up in like a Dewey dream of what
used to be in the pre apocalypsebut still exist more importantly
here now in this reality. And this boy's been told that,

(49:36):
like, everything in the mainlandis, you know, chaos.
And now he's learning that mightnot necessarily been true.
I maybe I've been fed lies to keep me indoctrinated and kept
in this place. Yeah.
I mean. We literally go from the imagery
of like him burning something todistract the the people who are
the watchers, right? And we also get that imagery

(49:56):
too. I forgot of the school of these
like fixed, you know, things that the children can grow up to
be, which is like, you know, very much a parallel to like our
society in terms of like desiring labor in these like
very fixed ways and national. Anthem, I think is what they're
they're doing some kind of anthem like the teachers.
Gotcha. Which kind of like a Snowpiercer

(50:19):
vibe, but but yeah, so so we have that.
But then also, like, you know, Spike lights the fire, and then
the last image we get before leaving this place is the flag
burning, Right. And then we cut to, like, the
old homes and then Fast forward to what they look like now while

(50:40):
we're having this conversation of or, I guess memory of Jodie
Comer reflecting on what her dadtold her.
Yeah. And I.
Think well, this goes to my extra credit to step on it for a
second. I'll talk more about in our
extra credit section, but Garland is a reactionary writer.
I don't think he's actually being like, this movie is about
the pandemic or this movie is about nationalism in the world

(51:01):
today, or this movie is about Brexit.
You can certainly paint those questions or map them onto this
movie because he's a reactionarywriter.
He's kind of a guy who's made enough money where he doesn't
need to make movies anymore. He's talked about retiring a
lot, and maybe he should. I don't know, you know, it just
depends on your opinion on him as a filmmaker at this point.
But when he feels inspired by a contemporary tension, he'll then

(51:23):
bring in all these, like, historical ideas.
And so you can certainly see like, Western exceptionalism
painted on the 28 Days Later franchise.
And here's how like, myth makinghappens.
And here's how actually the zombies become metaphor for the
oppressed. And you have these like,
characters who are still like, in this apocalypse zombie
genres. It's a survivalist movie, so you
don't have to think about the films that deeply.

(51:44):
But then they do become more like the George A Romero of the
Dead series, where they have these large commentaries about
constructs and abuses of power and surveillance.
And so that's what's really impressive about some of this
writing or some of this imagery or this interstitial imagery
that, you know, I want to give extra credit to.
But we'll talk about that a little bit later.
Yeah. That's a great extra credit as
we go. Into Act 3, we basically get a

(52:07):
lot of tonal shifts. We meet a new character, Eric,
who is a really funny injection of like dry humor into this
movie, who is a young Swedish NATO soldier who is this kind of
representation of the outside world.
A lot of like, M Night Shyamalanvillage vibes going on here

(52:27):
where he has to show this boy what the outside world is like
while having all these, like, assumptions of, you know, what
this boy is like in his reality is like one of the natives on
this this island. What do you think about Eric and
him? Is this kind of like a tool?
Yeah. I thought he was great comedic
relief. I also thought that he might

(52:47):
stay with us the whole movie. When you were introduced to him,
did you think he was? I was.
Really hoping he wouldn't, yeah.I was really hoping he wouldn't,
yeah. I thought he was a great like
character, yeah, to introduce kind of this like acidic, right
Presence who was not this heroicfigure and he is not like kind
to Spike or his mom and is reluctant to even help them.

(53:11):
But ultimately feels like I, I think it's similar to the
conversation from 28 days later that they have at the flat of
like who, who's helping who right, Like who's more, I guess
like strong and then therefore can I guess someone's weighing
someone down, right that they have there.

(53:32):
So I think that's like the same conversation.
He ultimately is reluctant. So there's a he's kind of
endearing in that way, even though I, I love that Jodie
Comer is like, no, he's a Dick. Like I know, you know, when I
see one and we also, I think as the audience understand that,
but there's an endearing qualitythat he's like, I do want to
help you because you know, you can read him two ways.
It's one that he is just sticking with them because he's

(53:54):
alone. So, but I think it's more so
like he reluctantly wants to to help, yeah.
So do you think that the whole NATO sequence, even though it's
exciting of them being chased down by zombies and then later
in Alpha in the tunnels or meeting Eric and then inevitably
Eric being killed, Do you think that you could just like, cut
that out of this movie though, and have it be a little bit

(54:15):
tighter and move a little bit quicker?
Because I don't really know thematically what they bring
outside of them representing these like European powers who
are watching, you know, Britain be torn apart of the UK be torn
apart and not doing anything about it.
I thought I think that helps in terms of the metaphor.
But they already kind of established that at the

(54:36):
beginning of the in the writing crawl of the movie.
So I feel like they could have cut all this out, even though I
did like some of the jokes or that there were some horrifying
scenes too, ultimately. I think that I would keep it in,
even though I think it could be cut out and the movie would
still roll. But I think that I think
specifically, like with his character, he's doing something
that I don't think was successful in Civil War.

(54:58):
But it reminded me of the kind of characterization of the
reporters asking one of the guysthey run into who's they're
shooting back and forth between the scene.
That looks very inspired by Station 11.
And I think they asked him, you know, like what why are you guys
fighting? And he says I'm shooting at
someone and they're shooting back and then he says something

(55:20):
like that. Let me repeat myself.
I'm shooting at someone because they're shooting at me or
whatever, right? Like someone shoots at me, I
shoot back that kind of thing like that was that apathy or
like not understanding the why behind like fighting or or you
know, and it's kind of like joining commentary was supposed
to be in this character and I think was actually more
successful in this character. Again, you can go listen to all

(55:41):
the problems I had with Civil War.
But that's a good take though. But I think that I liked him
being this like other father figure that, you know,
especially when you're in this adolescent phase, you think that
like older teenagers or young adults are very cool, you know?
And I think that Spike has this moment where he does want to

(56:05):
relate to him and does kind of think he's cool just because
he's like a slightly older man. Like that's basically it and has
some sort of power with this gun, right?
Because they have bow and arrows.
So I think that's also somewhat in there.
And I like that his mom just calls bullshit on it, right.
And yeah, so I I like it. I also like the jokes that it

(56:26):
brings. Like, I think this is a good
moment where we have him carrying, you know, Spike's mom
and he's like, basically he he'sexplaining what he's doing
there. And he says he joined the Navy
just to like prove to his friendthat he could do something.
Is that essentially right? He was like, I just joined, not
really thinking about it. And now I'm here and he was

(56:48):
explaining how his friend was a,a delivery person, right, who
delivered packages. And he's like, oh, you don't
know what that is, I guess. And then he's like, well, you
ordered them online. Oh, wait, you don't know what
online is. You know, I thought that was all
great. And also I think it helped
characterize Spikes like morals a little bit more where he kind

(57:11):
of laughed when his mom said that and told her not to say
that, but she was like, no, likeyou should like see things
clearly. But also Spike offered him an
apple and then said, like, take basically as many as you want,
right? So we see that Spike is
different from his dad, but he still is leaning towards the

(57:32):
tendencies of what his dad represents, but is ultimately
like kind of more like his mom, right?
He's like this a little bit morelike thoughtful, but especially
they're like offering, you know,all who all all of his food.
They don't know how they're longthey're going to be out there,
but he, like, gives him the whole bag of apples to choose
from. I thought that was just a good

(57:53):
way to show us a little bit of Spike's character without
telling us no. Really well said.
I agree with that. I just was curious because I
could have used more time with Ray Fine's character.
I could have used more time withJodie Plummer.
'S character becoming. More developed people, even
though I get the point of like we're meeting Spike, I just
didn't think about about it in terms of a trilogy because this

(58:13):
is a trilogy. You assumed Spike, we're going
to, he's going to grow older in this trilogy.
He's going to look a lot older. And we're going to go through
watching this kid, this actor grow up over the next three or
five years as we watch these 3 movies.
And so these scenes will hit different when we rewatch this
trilogy. And I agree it's good for that
character writing, but we lose alittle bit I think of time with
Fines with the pregnant woman, the baby with the Jodie Combers

(58:37):
character of it all. That's totally.
Fair. Yeah, I did one.
We're cutting back to Aaron Taylor Johnson before we get to
meeting Ray Fines, the infected.Woman, we have to talk.
About yeah, but also let's mention the gas station scene,
right? That was really cool.
Just as a set piece. I think one of the coolest set
pieces in the movie with the thesmoke telling Eric, telling them
to get down and then having the kind of like explosion on the

(59:00):
level of the gas kind of parallel to the first major gas
station explosion set piece in 28 days later.
But I thought it was yeah, good.I like that the.
Gas station was called hell. They took down the Shell.
So we encounter A infected womanwho is pregnant who was
introduced earlier in the film in a strange kind of like

(59:21):
cutaway to zombies walking through a forest and you're
like, that's a pregnant zombie. Strange comes back in this scene
and it's a pretty tragic image because this is like a zombie
woman who's carrying a child whohas to give birth but also needs
support but also wants to eat the humans that she needs
support from. So it was like a strange way to

(59:43):
like humanize the the zombie woman.
Of course the zombies are supposed to represent other
whoever's being othered in this,you know, society
metaphorically. And so like that works.
But I was, I was curious where this was going to go.
Then we're introduced to the alpha and we realized the alpha
was like out picking some food or something.
He had left her in there, came back was like, what are you guys

(01:00:05):
doing with my partner, my baby or whatever?
Yeah, right. OK, you thought that, too.
I thought he, like, clearly looked at that woman and then
was searching for the baby. That's what it seemed like.
Yeah, he, I think. I don't think he cared about the
woman. Yeah, I think he cared about the
baby. It was very I Am Legend.
And as far as people remember that movie, like Will Smith
takes a one of the monster creatures to do some experiments

(01:00:28):
on, and then the whole crew shows up at his house is like,
yo, where's she at? And it reminded me a lot about
that because it was like, for whatever reason, there was like
a monogamous relationship going on in that film, which seems
kind of similar here. But I think the alpha just cared
about the child, which was interesting.
Now this is then suggesting thatthe infected have instincts that

(01:00:50):
are still human because the way that they she touches hands with
Jodie Comer and then she doesn'ttry to bite her until she has
the child and then clicks back to being an infected, which is
not a two in 28 days later. Because there's a chained man in
that movie who gets Unchained byJim, who has been experimented
on by the soldiers who try to. He basically gets his revenge

(01:01:10):
against the soldiers. Yeah.
And then there's a boy zombie who screams I hate you.
Oh. Yeah, in the gas station and an.
Interesting sound edit that you can't tell if Jim is like
mapping on in a surreal way likehis childhood onto this kid
because he's killing a past version of himself or literally
the zombie boy said I hate you. And then in 28 weeks later, the
father, when he becomes a zombie, he straight up like

(01:01:32):
stalking his kids, even though he ends up trying to infect one
of them, the boy. So there's like a little bit of
human consciousness left in these infected people, right?
Which is definitely coming from like 28 weeks Later, even though
it's not direct conversation, although we do get some
flashbacks in all three movies. Yeah, of the like the sniper
sequence in 28 Weeks that I wasn't sure if that was the

(01:01:55):
exact footage from the movie or if they kind of like recreated
it. But yeah, my point was.
More so that like clearly the Garland wants to go in a more
different Emboyle want to go to a more different direction with
what the infection actually means and how everybody might be
infected, which is a little bit of a nod of Walking Dead virus
where everybody has it. So, well, definitely.
Yeah, with the introduction of Ray Fines character, yes.

(01:02:18):
So the alpha kills Eric, which is fine with me.
Fun tunnel decor though in good character building and also.
Like the the goriness of the spine that we see earlier taking
off the animal and then Eric also being like spine out.
That was is pretty brutal, right?
So we basically we meet Ray Fiennes character, the Doctor,

(01:02:38):
again, kind of like a manic but compassionate person, eccentric
I love. How we're, we think he has like
blood all over him and he's like, oh, iodine like, you know.
Trying to keep them away from me.
And it really does feel like a Wizard of Oz thing.
Like this boy met Eric, learned something from Eric.
This boy met the pregnant zombie, learned something from
baby. Like wanting to still make life

(01:03:01):
in this dystopian cynical world.Like trying to carry on humanity
through this like child. And now meets know the wizard
and the wizard is just a normal guy.
And yeah, I think the movie getspretty emotional from here
because the boy loses his mother.
We learned that she has cancer. I went to the bathroom at the
worst time possible. I was preparing for Jack
O'connell's appearance. And I was like, he hasn't showed

(01:03:21):
up yet. And I think he's going to.
So I'm going to the bathroom right now.
And I missed the death scene. So if you want to talk, talk us
through that. Well, well.
OK, wait, first I want to talk about it.
His camp, right? Because when we saw this in the
trailer, like this bone tower, you know, structure, I thought
that he was going to have his own like civilization or, or
what, you know what I mean, his own village, I guess, and that

(01:03:45):
this was like the center of it and that he might be this
menacing character. Like I thought they did a really
good job in marketing here to subvert us.
Because when he, you know, introduces us to this, it's
almost like not sweet, but like it's I guess there's this this
moment of him in some way, like having a memorial, right.

(01:04:08):
And he's like, it's not precious.
Like the the elements will erodethese like bones.
But this is a way to to kind of like commemorate these people,
both infected and non infected. And yeah, I just, I like when
we're we're moving through this kind of like this grave site,

(01:04:29):
which literally, I know we're keep talking about the The Lion
King, but isn't there? What is that place called?
It's like the grave graveyard. I forgot, you know what I mean?
I know. What you're talking about, yeah,
but. Anyway, so so we see all these
things and they're kind of like scared, I think right there are.
It's just weird. Like what is happening here?

(01:04:49):
Also, does this man need a ladder?
Like I don't. Know he built one inside of the
the middle school thing, but yeah.
Oh. Yeah.
Oh, that's true. The stakes.
Yeah. The boy.
Climbs up. But yeah, so anyway, and he also
introduces this like what was the Latin phrase?
The Latin. Phrase is memento Mori, which
means remember you must die. And I think he was trying to

(01:05:13):
tell the child that, like, all things must die in order to be
reborn in your village. And, like, holding on to, like,
a past damaging violent history is actually very problematic
because of people being dissonant to, like, the reality
of their history and rewriting history in order to justify
violence in the present era, which is something that many
nations are struggling with today, including our own.

(01:05:35):
And so that was a smart way to go about that.
The doctor, treating him like, the doctor being this last,
like, kind of emotional but alsointellectual part of this young
boy's journey of becoming who hewill become in the second movie.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then I I think also he says like he has some like jokes in
there. I wish I remembered all of them

(01:05:55):
because our theater loved him. But he was like, you know,
Latin, like dead language, ironically.
But yeah. OK, so the scene that you went
to the bathroom during is we we find out after the doctor
examines her that she most likely has cancer from the
masses, right. And her body and her symptoms.
And it's really tragic because Spike doesn't understand that

(01:06:18):
this is not something, you know,he says, can I go get medicine
from the hospital? Like this is not something that
could be cured generally. He's probably never.
Even heard of cancer? Yeah.
And so that was interesting, too.
And he's like holding this baby.Then we have this moment right
before you go to the bathroom where we kind of understand that
Ray Finds is talking to him, shoots him with a like dart to

(01:06:41):
calm him down. And Jodie Comer's character
says, yes, like, you can do that.
And there's this unspoken momentthat Ray Finds is going to,
like, kill Jodie Comer, but like, she is like, consenting to
it. And they're having this like
conversation without words of like, yes, this is what we're

(01:07:03):
going to do to kind of give her dignity, like, and have her die
in a version of herself that shekind of like talks about like,
I'm still here in like moments. But so basically what happened
when you left and you're like, Igot to, I got to go to the
bathroom and I was like, no, because I knew this she was
going to die. And I knew this would be like
your crying moment. So I didn't cry at this, but I

(01:07:26):
thought it was like emotional like sequence where music was
kind of swelling. She leaves her son with the
baby, walks out. Ray finds shoots her with a dart
to kill her. And then we get this kind of
like circle of life, right? Imagery of the baby, of these
flashbacks, of them being silly in The Cave right before Jody

(01:07:48):
Comer, like, protects them by killing the infected, but where
she's doing the silly thing withhim and asks, like, is your dad
ever silly with you? Meaning, like, is your dad ever
vulnerable with you? Yeah, that was that.
Hurt. Yeah.
And and so like making funny faces at each other, that was
like fine, you know, it felt like it just happened.
So it was so short ago that it was a weird flashback, but

(01:08:10):
whatever. And then we have like the sparks
from the fire that refines character has created going in a
circle around the bones. So it's like rebirth.
Sure. Nature.
Yeah, Which? Annihilation, like it's a, it's
a Garland motif at this point. I, I feel like a little bit
rushed, even though I missed it.Like I came back from the

(01:08:31):
bathroom after like 2 minutes and the boy had a skull in his
hand. He's like, yeah, this is my mom.
And I was like, or you said that's Oh yeah.
And I was like, what the fuck? That would be pretty.
Jarring. Go back and go to the back and
come. Back I was because I kind of
figured that's what they were leaning toward but for them to
do all that in two or three minutes while I was gone, it's
pretty insane. So it did feel like they were

(01:08:51):
trying to wrap it up at the end.And that's the only thing I was
trying to say with the Eric character.
Either put 10 more minutes on the movie so I learned more
about Jodie Comer's character. Like I hope they don't do more
flashbacks in the second one. Words like Jodie Comer scenes I.
Agree, that would suck. And I feel like that's coming.
I feel like I might even start the movie like that.
OK, so we meet Jimmy, I guess inthe movie ends because the boy

(01:09:14):
drops the baby off. Yeah, and I like.
How Ray finds is like, it's timefor you to, like, go home.
Yeah, he. Almost gets body though, yeah,
which I did get worried about. Yeah, Spike.
Saves him. Yeah, the alpha's.
Like he needs the baby back. And we see the boy drops the
baby off. He's going to go live in the
wilderness himself, in the mainland.
He's going to try to find himself.
He needs to figure out who he wants to become a true like

(01:09:35):
hero's journey, coming of age journey for this character which
is really cool which I. Liked for the story but I was
consistently thinking like this kids going to die out here like
if it were real life, right? He doesn't seem like he he has a
big heart, but like skill wise like he is, he's got a lot to
do. So him defending himself seems

(01:09:56):
like a lot. It would be, really.
Interesting if that's what they end up doing in this trilogy
because it's a harsh world. But I think, you know, there's
so much cynicism in this genre and those film makers know that,
Boyle and Garland, but they takesuch a humanist approach to the
storytelling. So I doubt that's where they're
going to go. But you never know.
So we meet Jimmy Crystals, who we've already talked a lot about
the Jack O'Connell character. So I guess we get to extra

(01:10:19):
credits and then predictions. Extra credits.
I already hinted at mine, but I want to give extra credit to
Garland and Boyle. But Garland for the screenplay
to try to connect modern ideas such as like nationalism and
isolationism to the contemporaryworld in this apocalyptic
environment. I think he makes it seem so

(01:10:39):
easy. He makes it seem so easy.
And it's just not like we watch apocalypse movies all the time,
disaster films all the time. Some of the greats over the last
25 years are 28 Days Later, Our Contagion, Our Children of Men.
But these movies are really hardto do.
And when they're successful, they're very memorable.
But that can sometimes disguise the fact that there's like,
hundreds others you just don't remember.

(01:11:00):
They're bad and just like lean into like like the kind of like
more problematic tropes of this genre of like doomsday preppers
who like love watching, you know, dystopian films for
questionable reasons that these honestly, these movies are
critiquing those kind of people like the military in the 1st 20
days later movie. And I just thought they did such

(01:11:20):
a good job and we're so smart about how they used archival
footage of past British militarydrills and battles and other
cultures conquest through training those boys, how you
said. And those visuals kind of
critiquing imperial cultures andhow they rewrite bloody history
into like these more glorified legends and shaping young minds
into this like isolationism and using propaganda to do that,

(01:11:43):
even if you see the like. Drawing on the walls from at the
very beginning of like kind of drawing the infected as these
like monstrous creatures and like the people in the community
as like the heroes. Yeah.
And like, I, you know, I think alot of people are going to map
on like this being an allegory for England or Brexit.
And I, and I think that's all like, right on.
And I'm sure Boyle and Garland have talked about that, like the

(01:12:03):
villagers having the rituals to celebrate old traditions of
royalty. Like there's a lot of commentary
there that feels very contemporary and modern, but you
know, I was just so impressed about how seamless it was, even
though it was like forced on screen and we saw like the
interstitial imagery, like in front of us.
And they're using like documentarian footage to do
that. And it is experimental to do
something like that in a genre film that is 60 + 1,000,000

(01:12:25):
dollars. It still felt like within the
language of the movie somehow and never put me off.
I could see some people having acriticism of them being like, it
never fit for them. So I understand that.
But for me, it worked pretty seamlessly, and I'm sure they're
going to continue exploring thatin in the next two films, which
makes me very excited for what this trilogy has the potential
to become. Honestly, it reminded me a lot,

(01:12:46):
a lot of the Planet of the Apes trilogy that we got about 15
years ago now. Oh.
You know, yeah, I was trying. To think there were like.
All these kind of endearing characters that Ray finds the
character reminded me of and like, not totally bad ape, but a
little bit oh the. Season, yeah, for more of the
apes, just the energy. That he brings to the movie.

(01:13:07):
Yeah, sure. I just think Garland is really
interested in tribalism at this stage in his career and even
though I don't agree with some of his like conflating of left
or right radicalism and and ideologies like how he does in
Civil war or warfare. Even I think in this movie, with
Boyle at the direction at the helm, kind of being a little
checks and balances to what he'sinterested in is really helpful

(01:13:28):
for his writing style politically, that I was just
very, very impressed about how he looked at patriarchies and
society and cycles of fear and preserving power throughout this
entire franchise. But in this movie, at this
scale, yeah. Yeah, that's a great extra
credit. And I guess my extra credit is
like doing that but also making it weird.

(01:13:49):
Like, I really appreciated that.I, I think like, you know,
Teletubby Power Ranger aside, although that deserves a little
extra credit in itself. I, I think the, the performance
is like or sorry, the tone firstis like what I want to give
extra credit to. It does really well with
shifting tone similar to 28 dayslater, but kind of again, like

(01:14:10):
dialed up here. But the performance is is my
second extra credit because I think that, you know, Alfie
Williams is kind of carrying themovie.
He has to right the the whole script really is relying and
depending on his performance, like he we have to understand

(01:14:32):
where he shifts in terms of the breaking of reality from once
really admiring his dad and thenalso coming with that, the kind
of break of him understanding the mythology that's been built
around all of the like norms andcustoms and how they yeah, like

(01:14:53):
the also the ideology around this like isolation.
He also has to come to terms with that.
And and then, you know, once we get out into the real world, his
face, right, in terms of the performance has to tell us a lot
of how he feels towards these different patriarch figures with
these different kind of like people who have power.

(01:15:16):
Yeah. So I I think like he does
deserve extra credit or being asked.
To grieve his mom in like 2 minutes, yeah.
Wild. Yeah.
So yeah, I was. I was, like, pleasantly
surprised. And usually, like, you know,
child movies where child performances are at the crux of
the movie is a big gamble. So.
But yeah. But I think also, like, Ray
Fiennes brings a lot of, like, really weird humor to this that

(01:15:38):
I really appreciated. And Jodie Comer, I think you're
right. Like has an underrated role
here. I agree about the, like, the
weakness of the script, but she does a good job with what she's
given. And then Aaron Taylor Johnson
actually, like, really does a great job.
Yeah. He's not asked to do a lot, but
I think, you know, to give some credit to the supporting actors

(01:15:59):
when you establish and surround a young actor with such great
talent of their generations likeAaron Taylor Johnson, Jody
Comer, 2 actors in the same generation, two of the best of
their generation. He's going through like and
then. Fine.
He's like a legend. A literal legend that that's
Voldemort, you know, to that kidprobably that's insane.

(01:16:20):
So like that's you know, of course finds has been other
incredible movies has it has great performances outside of
Baltimore, but you know, that's a credit to the the casting
director too on this movie. But yeah, let's let's get into
predictions because I think we've we've talked enough about
that this movie 28 years later is apparently going to be a
trilogy. We've been talking about it.

(01:16:40):
NIA Dacosta who directed Marvelsand The Candy Man is going to
direct the second movie. Alex Garland wrote all three
screenplays and then Danny Boylewill come back and direct the
third movie. Interesting.
Now the second film reportedly is done with production.
It's in post production right now and should be coming out
next summer as Part 2. I'm curious to why they did not

(01:17:01):
call this Part 1. I assume because that has to do
with like box office returns on movies that are called part
round one, which is probably low.
So that's probably why I do think this movie stands on its
own without putting it. To yeah.
Wait, like do you think that this would be if we didn't know
this was essentially a Part 1, would you have the same reaction

(01:17:23):
of like this was awesome, like great complete movie I think.
So just because it's not tied atall narratively to like
character wise, like legend, legend characters or Canon
characters to 28 days or 28 weeks.
If there was somebody from thosemovies, say Kelly Murphy or
Naomi Harris or those kids from the second one and weeks later,
then yes, I would say that this movie needed to be a part of a

(01:17:46):
larger extension of like a sequel or a trilogy.
But because it stands alone withits own characters and its own
sort of world that we haven't seen yet, it feels novel,
strangely. Yeah.
I feel like using a. Standard on its own too.
I think the only thing obviouslythat is leading us into the next
one are the jimmies. I mean, that's so exciting.
Yeah. I guess if you took out the
epilogue, it would feel like it's own movie.

(01:18:07):
But now that you've added the epilogue, you're like excited
the second one and the second one's confirmed already.
So we're going to get that. The third one is the one we
might not get. So it'll be interesting to see
how they shape the second one because it if it doesn't do well
financially, apparently they're not going to make the third one.
So we'll see what I'm excited about.
This is my last. This is my pitch to any, if any,
if there's any producers out there listening to this.
I hate extended IPTV shows off of movies.

(01:18:30):
However. OK, However, this is a big
However, the fact that we know that this is confined to Britain
and 28 years later late lays thegroundwork that there is like a
global tension about what's happening in the UK here.
They have such, I think, a massive opportunity to do a
really cool prestige level series about this outbreak

(01:18:55):
happening across other nations that are dealing with
nationalism, that are dealing with isolationism to make it a
true like political, like zombieseries That's so true.
Because that's always my question watching these and and
also the characters kind of bring it up right to to plant
that question of like what happened to the rest of the
world. Now I don't want that like verse

(01:19:16):
having more movies if it if you told me like we'll just get more
movies set one of my favorite franchises already.
I'm dumbed down. Just make it Planet of the Apes.
That's awesome. But in terms of like what we're
all going through culturally right now, especially in our
country, like the rising of likenationalism, I've been.
Thinking an Andor version of this.
Basically that's. Exactly right.
If we got something like that, that would be so dope.

(01:19:38):
And I think they've opened the door or something like that,
frankly, yeah. I think they were.
Supposed to be. A different writer.
There are some things that like,I don't think I would love to
see from Garland's specific point of view, like you wouldn't
want. To do it, yeah, I don't.
Think you'd do it either, but but yeah, so that that's a great
take. OK, for predictions like we're
definitely going to have the well, OK, I don't know.

(01:20:00):
We're going to have Jimmy the jimmies.
I think maybe like bring up Spike, as we call him Alfie, but
I think that's my take. Like they're going to they're
going to raise him. So we're going to see like that
time jump. Interesting.
And he'll. Be like a Jimmy or he'll be
running from them again. He's going to have.
The wig on and everything like he's going to.
Go full send, become a telesopy.Yeah.

(01:20:22):
I hope so, but I think that we're also going to have like
Ray fines and sorry by by the way, I keep today the way I'm
saying it just because it's beena long day.
It sounds like I'm saying Ray fines, but I understand how to
pronounce the. Same.
Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so I think Aaron

(01:20:43):
Taylor, Johnson and Refines are going to like meet.
It's going to be a. Tough meeting Aaron Taylor
Johnson. Be like you killed my wife.
What? He's very reactionary so.
The only thing the only thing I have in terms of notes for the
spike character is like reef finds was like put the skull,
you know, your mom's skull wherever like the best place and

(01:21:04):
what does like little boy do butlike put her at the very top as
like the best place. Like that's so it was very boy
coded. Yeah.
To climb to the top. OK, but I think that yeah,
that's that's my prediction. We're also going to obviously
see in my mind some sort of townthat is like almost untouched.
I know that's kind of what they're playing with in the

(01:21:26):
first community that were introduced to.
It's almost like that that town that everything's like fine in
Civil War, right? Like if they're unaffected and
apathetic, the Gilmore. Girls town, right?
Yeah. Kind of like giving the the idea
of like, yeah, we don't like thethe news stresses us out so we

(01:21:48):
don't watch it or pay attention.Yeah, like that kind of thing,
right, The privilege of being apathetic.
And then it's also kind of done in in other dystopian franchises
like Children of Men. But that's more like the capital
where we see people who are living like a far different life
than other people outside the gates.
But yeah, so I think we'll be introduced to some sort of

(01:22:12):
society like that unless there that was already done like what
he was trying to do at the firstpart here.
Yeah, we'll. See, there's a lot of exciting
ideas that could they could bring up.
I, I think they might bring in some other characters for for
our lead character to be friendswith.
That's what I would assume people his age would be.
I'm curious to see if that happens because this has the
potential to turn into like a new wave YA trilogy.

(01:22:37):
Because I do. Think this is going to hit with
young people? It is so structured to target at
young people. What would like really, it's a
coming of. Age bigger ideas in the.
Backdrop that I think younger people will miss, almost like I
did with 28 Days Later as a kid when I first saw that movie.
Yeah. What age were you?
When you first saw that like 12.And I was like, this is awesome.
This guy's actually going through a zombie apocalypse.
How do they get this documentary?

(01:22:59):
You know what I mean? And then when I got older, I was
like, oh, the military, all thatstuff.
Like it's interesting when you when you grow older with some of
these great scripts. But OK, so we can finish off
there. That was the extra credits of
Danny Boyle's and Alex Garland's28 years later.
Don't forget about the free episodes on Patreon right now.
Again, we have 28 days later. We have Civil war, Asteroid

(01:23:21):
city, Creed, Mission Impossible,past lives.
All you have to do is go in the description of this episode.
Sign up to be a free member. If you like what you hear, you
can subscribe for $5 a month andhave access to hundreds of hours
of deep dives and some of the great movies of all time.
We have multiple different current series that we run on
Patreon there, but it's only just one subscription model.

(01:23:41):
So and also Living Plus is what it's called we did.
Garland's movies Men Ex Machina and like talked about
Annihilation and his other movies as well.
But I think Civil War was like the big career deep dive that we
did, which is free. And then the other ones, yeah,
were put a living plus they're on there as.
Well. And follow us on Insta or on

(01:24:03):
social media if you want to see me in a Teletubby costume.
I we'll post that with, with the, I guess, like announcement
that we're publishing this episode.
Yeah. Subscribe 5 stars Follow the
social media accounts letterbox See you guys over there.
Peace bye.

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