Mailbag: Best and Worst of 2025, Timothée Chalamet vs. Austin Butler, the Power of Pedro Pascal, and more!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Music. Hello, welcome to the Extra
Credits mailbag of 2025. I'm Trey.
And I'm Kelsey. Today we are going through a lot
of questions sent in by you fromInstagram to emails from
Letterbox and all of our social media accounts.
We appreciate you. If you don't follow us on any of
those social media accounts and you want to stay in touch with

(00:35):
us or see what we're doing or episodes we have coming up, I
recommend following us on Instagram or Letterbox.
That's mostly where we send out our new programming for what we
have coming up or what we're planning.
Especially Instagram stories, wedon't really post that much.
Yeah, we don't post that much anymore.
I really fell off with doing ourkind of what do we call

(00:56):
graphics. There was like a six months
there. There was a stretch where I was
being creative. I was spending literally like 30
to an hour finding a correct font that matched the movie
poster that I could put in our podcast name, you know, font,
and then kind of like mimic that.
It was a whole thing, the whole process.
It was too much. And now we just released him on

(01:18):
Patreon and you're doing a beautiful job, Trey.
Thank you. But yeah, we stick to stories,
so. Yeah, I guess you could follow
us as a free member on Patreon too to see what we have coming
up. Like September is Paul Thomas
Anderson month. Yes, I think we have a question
or two semi related to PTA todaythat we'll get to and his new
movie 1 Battle after Another is coming out this week.

(01:38):
I cannot wait. I literally, I'm like taking
pauses throughout my day and I'mlike, it's the week.
I know it's Thursday. I know we're going to see APTA.
And I've wanted an early screening.
We could not get one. I don't know why, but we
couldn't get 1. So we're going to be there
Thursday night hopefully, and we'll have an episode out
probably that that weekend. This is the upcoming weekend.

(01:59):
So for free listeners right now on Patreon, not only can you see
what we're doing, what we're cooking up or what we have
coming up, but we are giving outfree episodes per usual.
We have like 9 or 10 free episodes on there for free
members. But also we're adding a new
movie. And that's Paul Thomas
Anderson's Phantom Thread, a three hour deep dive that we
did, I don't know, almost a yearago now, looking for New Year's
like basically like 8 months agoor so.

(02:21):
And is my favorite Paul Thomas Anderson movie.
It might be mine too. No way it's in my top two.
Top three. OK, that's changed.
I don't know, PT as made like 5 or 6 movies that I think are
five stars so it's like they areinterchangeable depending on how
I feel on a given day. But Phantom Thread is very
special. To me, we'll talk more about it
on the the PTA episode for sure.OK.

(02:42):
So we got a lot of questions today.
I'm going to try to go through as many as I can.
These questions range from this year of movies in 2025, our
relationship to movies in general, to just more broad
questions about the industry at large.
So we're going to start off witha new listener question and I'm
not going to name names today, but I'm just going to say the

(03:02):
questions. I apologize, but thank you to
all of those who sent in. Questions I know we keep
forgetting to ask people like, hey, could you give us your
name? And then we could be like Ben
from Chicago. We can just say that this is Ben
from Chicago. Thanks, Ben.
But we did get a few questions that look just like this, a lot
of questions from new listeners because even though 2025 has
been I think a pretty good year in movies, not as good as last

(03:24):
year, but you know who, who really cares?
We've got some really interesting auteur driven medium
budget bold projects that have come out this year.
Whether they're five stars to some people or 3 1/2 stars to
others, it kind of doesn't matter because we're getting
really like new material to workwith that isn't just like
diluted franchise slop or it's like superhero movies, even

(03:44):
though we got a few of those as well this year.
But we got a lot of new listeners from Sinners, a lot of
new listeners from Eddington Weapons materialists.
The weapons episode that we put out almost like a month and a
half ago now is our most listen to episode ever.
Like ever. Well, we also had to take some
episodes off which we talked about more on like Patreon.

(04:07):
Someone messaged us about it andor commented and we like
responded to explain why we haveto take like Nope off and stuff
like that. Well, it passed Nope even.
Yeah, if I look at the download numbers that pass Nope.
In one month. Just wild.
Yeah. So it's by far most listened to
episode, it's been listened to by thousands of people and that
gave us a lot of new subscribers.
So hello to those people. But again, there's like a a ton

(04:28):
of other movies that are really,really interesting that people
checked out our show for. So we got a lot of questions
like this one from new listeners.
So, Kelsey, do you want to startus?
Off yeah, I I think what we'll do for this episode is I'll read
the questions. But if you can answer first,
because a little behind the scenes for everyone here.
I've had a really busy week. I actually had to pull like an

(04:49):
all nighter for a paper, like read 300 pages in a day.
And so my mind is kind of not a flex a a special form of torture
that I put on myself. And anyway, so I'm like mind
lagging a little bit. And this is, I've just been so

(05:12):
busy this week. So this is kind of like the
first time I'm seeing the questions, at least in this
order. I did like check out the
questions we got from listeners.So I, I know that they'll pop up
somewhere. But sure, you kindly made a
Google doc just with the questions.
If you could answer first though, is what I'm getting at,
that would be helpful for me so I can think more about my answer
and rely on you. So OK, our first question is a

(05:37):
kind of a combination. We've gotten a lot of of similar
questions like this as Trey was saying.
But hi, I'm a new listener. Can you give us the lore of the
pod? Like the origin story of how the
Patreon and main feed evolved? So Kelsey and I are married.
We are, which is one of my favorite things when there are

(05:57):
new listeners and they'll comment or they will send us a
message and just say something like you guys have great
chemistry, you know where's. This chemistry come from we've
been together since high school.It takes a long time.
When people say chemistry, I wonder if they're just mean.
You guys have the same exact opinion on the same exact
things, which we don't. We do share a lot of obviously

(06:19):
there's a lot of crossover interests, but we do.
We disagree sometimes but but basically movies have always
been like our love language since we became friends in high
school and they've helped us understand each other.
And I think we look at movies aslike tools for empathy.
So we talked about our emotions a lot, our politics, our morals
after watching. Movies and a lot of like, yeah,

(06:41):
conversations in the car on the way home or walking home from
the theater, yeah. Absolutely.
And so film has kind of been a glue in our relationship from
the start. So now that we have like a
conversation show or whatever wedo here about movies, that's not
too surprising that we have this.
But the actual origin story of the pod goes back to, I think,

(07:02):
Licorice Pizza PTA movie. Strangely enough, PTA is one of
our shared favorite directors, so I guess that's not too
surprising. But that was back in like, late
2021, early 2022. That movie is like, I think, a
cinematic masterpiece, but narratively a kind of
complicated movie to talk about.And we love the film quite a

(07:23):
bit. Even though we had some, like,
hesitation with certain decisions that were being made
or some, you know, we had some caution around certain choices
from PTA. We were listening to a lot of
podcasts around that time about that movie.
We read a lot of reviews and we saw people dismissing it as
something that it wasn't really in our opinion, and then we saw
people overly loving it without much nuance and it's sort of

(07:44):
just bugged us. I think the lack of like
critical exploration of that movie bugged us.
And that frustration from what Iremember, basically pushed us to
going to get mics from Best Buy,like really bad, like Blue mics,
whatever. It was the cheapest like $100
valued mics we could find. Yeah, and then I was on YouTube,

(08:04):
like figuring out how to edit. Yeah, 'cause you, yeah, you were
the editor. I was yeah.
Now people have seen a probably a change.
Trey is our editor and we're yeah, it, it sounds better now.
Well, we actually just know how to edit now versus when we
started, which was like literally some of the most,

(08:25):
honestly some of the most, like nightmarish experiences of my
life in the past five years. We're just like staying up
editing a podcast that took 45 minutes.
Yeah, for like 5 or 6 hours because I did not know how to
use GarageBand. Yes, which certainly cements us
in the millennial generation that we have no idea how to edit
audio. Also, I think it's so funny to
think back about that time I waswatching YouTube videos also

(08:47):
about like how to market your podcast, like whatever, like
share it. And we took none of that advice.
And we took none of that advice.And also there are a lot of
people who, you know, I, I thinkkindly were like, don't waste
your time on this because actually it's very rare for your
podcast to take off or for you to have people who listen to you

(09:08):
outside of your just like immediate circles.
And so like, you should probablylike maybe do it as a hobby, but
not really like don't count on it.
And I think that is probably true.
We just got really lucky. Well, I wouldn't think so.
Well, I would tell people we've gotten a lot of questions from
people who are trying to create movie podcasts over the years,
and I don't think we've ever talked about these different

(09:29):
groups. We've tried following them or
subscribing to this podcast and listening to them.
Sometimes we'll share them from time to time, but one of the big
pieces of advice I give to like move new movie podcasters, kind
of a consistent advice I give iscover everything that's like a
new release, like immediately, because so many podcasts are
kind of stuck in their algorithms of their like 25 to

(09:50):
50 listeners and they can't get out of that.
So I don't think it's impossible.
I, I hated that advice that we got back in 2022, which is like,
you better, you best. If it's not niche enough, you're
not going to get any subscribers.
And I I think that's not good advice.
Well, that's not saying it felt like defeating, though, when I
was watching them because I was like, we're getting all this
stuff. And it feels obviously like a

(10:11):
little weird. You're like, OK, I guess I'm
starting a podcast, which has become a very funny, like trend,
obviously in, like, movies, too.Yeah.
Which I totally get. And it still feels weird.
Like, I don't like, we do not tell people.
That is like, not something thatwe do like in conversations when
we meet people. Like I have a podcast because it

(10:32):
feels like, yeah, like I want people to hear my opinion about
this. I want to put my opinion into
the world. But I actually think like it was
yeah, more so a not reluctant, but like, hey, I we talk about
this anyway, you know, and our friends always ask us for like
movie wrecks or like what we thought about a movie.

(10:52):
We're like having these conversations anyway.
And we don't probably, like manyof our listeners have like a
huge movie community. Like we get that from listening
to other podcasts, like hearing what people think about things.
And so we were like, let's startlike a, a basically movie book
club kind of thing, you know, where we have people who are
interested in similar things as us and like connect over that.

(11:15):
And and so that's kind of like been the the project of the pod,
which has been really awesome. I would say the genesis, though,
really was just wanting to add more to the conversation that
was a little bit more vulnerableabout being like a critical
thinker about movies and not being a cynical is like, well,
they're just like escapist products.
And we were like, well, they're they are like escapist products,
but they are are also an art form.

(11:37):
Maybe it's the most commercial art form in the world.
And we'll discuss that with a great question later today.
But I think we were just a little bit irritated by the
lack, again, a lack of nuance about certain movies that were
out at that time. And so the genesis was just kind
of us being like, well, I wantedto just add to the conversation.
That was kind of how we both felt.
And then what happened was I think after like 6 months, we

(11:57):
don't really know what you want to do with the show really
covering television shows. We were covering like smaller
indie movies and we started liketrying to talk to certain
directors in this indie movies. That was a really cool
experiment that we did for a while there.
And then Nope, Jordan Peele's film and Barbarian Sakriger's
first movie came out within a month of one another.
It was like July, August I believe.

(12:18):
And then the podcast like relatively blew up.
And then it became like, oh, I guess we can create like a mini
movie community. We should get letterboxed.
We should like maybe spend some money on better microphones
because we had like, you know, gotten to like the 100
subscriber counts, you know, like, and then the thousands.
And we were like, whoa, OK, so we are doing like a movie book
club thing here. And we started getting cool

(12:39):
guests, guests that were kind ofunreal, like Chris Stockman or
fantasy, Like we were just getting guests that I never
thought we'd get or. Like or like having Zach, you
know, Craig or like reaching. Directors, yeah, film makers,
writers, Ruben Usland, people like that that are really big
names. Celina Rain, Seth Reese, who's
become like a really important writer in Hollywood right now so

(13:00):
yeah, we got some like just really cool film makers.
AV Rockwell, who made 1001, who we'll be talking about later
this week because Tiana Taylor. So yeah, you know, along the way
a few film maker pen pals. I never thought I'd be able to
like contact Damien Chazelle andlike have a conversation with
him, which was fucking unreal during the Babylon release.
And talking to Justin Hurwitz too was crazy.

(13:22):
Him playing piano for. Us honestly, like that was the
well, I I love movies and I lovetalking to creatives right, like
the the people who are kind of behind the ideas of the movie
and the choices. Talking to Justin Hurwitz like
because of his music was a really special experience for
me. It was one of the closest, I
think like one of the only spirit like spiritual adjacent

(13:44):
experiences I've had on the podcast where he's like, I can't
really explain to you what I'm trying to say.
Let me play this in a piano. We've told this story before and
we, you know, we had an episode on it that we took off.
We'll eventually put it back on for Damien and Hurwitz's next
movie, so. But isn't it funny that that was
like the, the kind of celebrity like experience that I had?
I, I think when we talked to Letterboxed, we had the, the

(14:08):
host on from the Letterbox podcast for our Martin Scorsese
draft and I, we had a conversation about like king of
comedy or something. And we were, we were talking
about who would you be starstruck from?
And I didn't have an answer because I was like, I don't care
about any actors. Yeah.
Any celebrities. Yeah.
Like, and they are all kind of like theatre kids, which I
appreciate, but I'm just not like obsessed with their

(14:30):
individual lore enough as people.
But I think that someone like Justin Hurwitz, like, music, to
me is kind of crazy that they'reable to.
Yeah, something like that. Justice for Babylon score which
got killed with the Oscars. You know meanwhile, we're doing
all this the past two or three years going back to the origin
story and we this is like a parttime job.

(14:52):
It turned it was like hobby turned part time job slash hobby
still. And because like we have primary
jobs, we both work in education,which if you're not a long time
listener and you're a new listener, that might be a little
bit surprising because we're nottechnically movie critics.
That's like this is not what we do for a living.
And education is like obviously deeply fulfilling to both of us,

(15:12):
but also very demanding. And Kelsey, you know, you're
getting your PhD in sociology and I'm teaching high school and
both jobs again, like a really demanding, time sensitive,
emotionally kind of fulfilling the draining.
And so the work life podcast balance.

(15:33):
Also, considering the fact that we're married has been insane
the past three years of trying to restructure like Google
calendars and like trying to figure out like when, because
of, you know, normally when you listen to a movie podcast or
other podcasts with two hosts, right?
Co hosts, they don't like live together.
They're they're not married. They don't share the same
schedule. So they haven't talked in like a
week or something. And they get on the mics and

(15:54):
they like, I guess they kind of like just chill and talk for a
little bit. But we have we live all of our
experiences mostly together. Yeah, we're also like best
friends. And so yeah, we're not like
jumping on the mic and and saying what have you been up to?
You know, we already like, know what we've been up to.
Right, so I would say that we'regoing to come back to this
conversation in a second when somebody asks like, you know,

(16:15):
what's the biggest off mic fightwe've had about the podcast?
There's some stuff to talk aboutthere.
But yeah, the work life balance and then also Kelsey's health
over the past five years, which long time listeners know.
And and new listeners can go back and listen to our first
episode on the main feed, which is our like our latest or
earliest episode, which is like summer of 2024, where update
some people about what happened there, which we'll need to do

(16:36):
right now. But what else about the lore?
It's hard to have a podcast though, yeah.
It is hard to have a podcast andand I don't think we would have
the podcast today if not for Patreon.
Yeah, which sounds, which soundslike a plug.
It's not a plug. You could take it as a plug.
I'd love for you to take it as aplug.
And you can sign up as a free member or a subscriber.
But about a year and a half ago,we were offered some spots on

(16:59):
podcast networks and we agreed that we did not like the
economics or politics of those networks and what the
advertisers meant for us as a show.
And we wanted to stay listener supported.
And I know some people in this space across all podcasts don't
have access to like a a stable salary job.

(17:22):
I don't want to call education stable, but a job that allows
them to be able to kind of work while doing this on the side.
So I'm not saying everyone else sells out and we don't, but we
did consider like should we saw it a little bit, should we take
some of these sponsors? Also, it's like, because it
started becoming, you know, we we were gaining so many like
followers and listeners. And so it did become more so

(17:44):
like a part time job. It was like this isn't
sustainable because we actually would do other things to get
money. Since, you know, education is
also not something that you can like just live on alone where we
were like, OK, well, we would normally tutor or something or
like do something for money outside of our job.
So like this was becoming a sortof stable like part time job.

(18:05):
And like Trey sang, you know, inthis space, it's actually really
interesting. I think maybe for listeners who
don't know someone like in the podcast space, how this has
developed in terms of being, youknow, talked about as like a a
new space for new voices and notjust companies.
And I think that's true to a certain extent, but there's like

(18:26):
something interesting happening where where basically where you
have the the companies who are like paid to do this.
So either they're like kind of supported and being critical,
although that's becoming less and less, or it's like they're,
they're a company. And so they can like kind of
more freely share their opinionsthat are mostly positive or

(18:46):
decide to like step into a critique.
But they can easily just step out of it and stay mainly
positive because that's their, their full time job, right?
But then you have like people like us who are trying to make a
podcast and like have this be something where they love
talking about movies, they love seeing movies.
They want a community, but because it it becomes like a

(19:07):
part time job like us or they want to make it a full time job.
There is like a tendency or a pressure that I've even like
felt but haven't done, which is to just be positive.
Like let's just be positive because that will get us the
most followers. It won't give us like bad
reviews. How?
Come Maverick best movie of the twenty 20s.
It if we don't step in any like territory like that, our show

(19:31):
will be shared more because likepeople will want to listen to an
overly positive, you know, episode.
And and then also the pressure to be content creators gives you
yeah, yeah, you're creating content for the company.
So then you start making like deals with certain
advertisements or whatever and that sounds great.

(19:52):
Like I would love to make this afull time job.
That would be a dream, but at the same time, I'm not willing
to like compromise. You know, my how I feel like
ethically about selling, you know, a product for a company
that I don't really care about or I don't know if I agree with.
And that just felt weird to us. And I understand why other
people do it in terms of wantingthis to be a full time job.

(20:14):
But when we got offered like kind of almost like not end
game, but like it was like, oh, this would really the perfect
sponsorship, the perfect sponsorship.
We were like. OK, if we don't even feel good
about this, then let's just not do like companies at all, if
that makes sense in terms of like while we are staying
independent, linking up with people that then might seep into

(20:38):
it if we are being overly positive or us feeling hesitant
to like be critical about, you know, a certain movie or
something, right? So, and like that is I think the
the layout of the podcast space.And so it's sometimes hard to be
like critical because we're staying independent.
We're also independent. And so we love like having
Patreon for that reason, where we and I think our listeners

(21:01):
like know our our mission right over there, especially our long
time listeners of like us wanting to actually be able to
talk about movies. And that's why like I know our
listeners are cool. Like besides them reaching out
to us, they have to be, you know, like like often times
they'll send us things like, oh,I actually didn't agree with
this, but here's like what I thought, which is cool because
we're actually having a conversation.

(21:21):
We're not looking to be like mini celebrity podcasters.
We're looking to have a conversation about a movie.
Like we're interested in people's thoughts.
And I think our listeners are too, which is awesome.
And so like the Patreon is a wayto make it so we actually can do
this, right? Like we can say stay semi.
Yeah. And I think staying cosign
everything you said and I think staying listener supported so

(21:44):
our audiences always know our views are coming from a genuine,
honest, authentic place. Is is what nails that kind of
like positive, healthy relationship that we have to,
you know, the listeners we have,which is the fact that if they
hear us being critical of Eddington or Sinners or weapons,
they know it's coming from a place we're really trying to be
as like, again, honest and authentic with our relationship

(22:06):
to the movie as much as as much as we can.
And it's not coming from any pressure of relationships we
have to film makers that we haveon as guests.
It's not going to pressure from studio to not be totally honest
as to loose followers or get onestar reviews on Apple, which is
the thing we can get to that in a second.
But, you know, here we are. You know, we got the hundreds of
patrons we got the thousands of listeners we got.
We're terrible at TikTok. We're terrible at social media.

(22:28):
I know we're terrible at actually making it a business
because our, our lives outside of this is so demanding, but I,
it's a really, it's honestly a really special thing.
Like, I'm so grateful to have like a community of of listeners
who are interested in movies forthe same reasons we are.
A great transition point to go into our second question.
Do you want me to read that off?Oh no, I'll do it.

(22:50):
I'm sorry. It's OK.
It fits perfectly because we just kind of got positive a
little sappy toward the end there.
And now we're going to get into the second question.
OK, drama what? What's been your biggest
disagreement behind the scenes? An argument or debate that
didn't make it on air. Again, we live together.

(23:12):
I'll start off with the easy one.
The biggest ongoing 1 is the oneKelsey already alluded to, which
is like how much criticism do wewant to put out into the world?
And because film criticism due to pressure from private or
corporate interest of firing actually like thoughtful,
intelligent, well meaning critics and trying to learn more
into content creation to secure like more guaranteed profits

(23:35):
quarter to quarter, kind of the failures of capitalism Co opting
media. And we're seeing that film
criticism right now. You're now starting to see like
podcast or publications putting out reviews of movies that are
like, this is a masterpiece. You've never seen a movie like
this. I love it or this is one of the
worst movies ever made, Not because it's problematic, just

(23:55):
because it's such a fucking mess.
And it's like, I loved it or I hated it.
And I know I sound like old man yelling at clouds a little bit,
but that's that's a real, that'snot a good place to be when you
have that kind of binary critical reaction.
That's not due to like individuals making bad decisions
or being corrupted. It's really just like these
larger kind of like institutional issues of trying

(24:16):
to again guarantee profits and trying to and nuance becoming
not sexy and nuance not selling.Yeah, that's the reason we have
like influencer screenings, right, Where it's like, and we
have critics being fired for writing on outlets and having
nuanced takes. It's like, oh wait, we can have
people talk about our movie and just sell our movie.

(24:36):
Like just a good that sounds like a good deal.
And they also get to profit off of like having the viral tick
tock or something. Like, yeah, it's a tough space
to be in if you wanna have conversations like ours.
So shout out all the writers outthere and podcasters in this
critical space. I think movie criticism is an
art form in itself and is not appreciated as one and but it
is. But the point I was getting to

(24:57):
was that big movie review podcast often are pressure to
mirror fan extremes. And meanwhile a lot of the
thoughtful critics that we're talking about The Who try to be
in the middle and have a personal voice are losing their
jobs. And that again, that could be
political, it could be AI driven, which is another part of
this or because of content creation and kind of all in that
pull together. And it's just not great for the

(25:18):
industry. It's not great for us.
So we've had a lot of arguments about whether or not it's OK to
be in the messy middle about a movie that's really.
Popular, yeah, like, for example, we'll really go back
and forth and I wouldn't say like, it says like what are the
biggest disagreements? I wouldn't say these are like
fights or anything. It's just more so like what are
kind of conversations we're having about about like, should
we cover this superhero, you know, content?

(25:41):
Sure, because there are a lot oflike people who feel very
strongly about, you know, this, this like content or whatever on
these franchises. And it's like, OK, well, you
know, this might open us up to to listeners who are, you know,
movie fans who like superhero movies, maybe for the same
reasons like we do. But at the same time, it's a

(26:02):
risk, right, to even like cover movies like that with certain
fan bases, especially if like there are not a lot of women
right in the podcast space. And God forbid I insult like Han
Solo, right? And we get like an angry
listener who leaves A1 star likethat actually like impacts us as
an independent show. So so think things like that.

(26:23):
Not that Trey is silencing my Han Solo takes.
If you listen to our Star Wars pods, I.
Certainly have have never silenced Kelsey's strong takes.
If anything, I would say it's like it.
It's just more conversations like that, right?
Like should we cover this? I don't know.
Like we already put time into it.
It's more so about like time. Yeah, and I also think like I'm

(26:43):
a little bit more. I think I get a little bit more
heated. I'm a little bit more moralistic
about some movies. So Kelso will have to reel me in
sometimes. Like when we did Oppenheimer, I
had to be reeled in a few times on that episode because I was
like, this is one of the great achievements of, like, modern
cinema. But also narratively, I think
it's deeply opportunistic. And I think it was not discussed
as such. And I also thought that was very

(27:04):
similar to Barbie. And so we had like complicated
conversations about those movies.
We did that this year with Eddington.
We did it with weapons. We did with Sinners, right?
And the truth is, again, that like that kind of critical
nuance, it doesn't mean I'm right.
It doesn't mean Kelsey's right. But it doesn't sell.
And so it doesn't sell to an audience who's been like kind of
who has been pushed to like follow these cycles of binary

(27:26):
reactions and certainly doesn't sell to like podcast networks.
And so sometimes we'll get uncharitable backlash about
those things like you're like you're noting or one star
reviews, but it's still kind of rare.
But it's annoying when it happens because it it is like
like for example, we usually only get those things after we
cover like Superman, for example, right?
Like we only get those things normally like when we're

(27:48):
covering something that is a space where I think sometimes
like maybe people relate to thiswho are listeners when you're
talking to people about movies, sometimes like there's a huge
like fandom space of movies thatkind of treat movies like
content. So like the people will
introduce themselves or talk about themselves in the movie
space. Like if you're talking to

(28:09):
someone who likes movies as likethey love Nolan movies and
that's like a part of their identity or like they love
superhero movies and that's a part of their identity.
Not and I mean, we are, you know, obviously we have like, we
are big fans of like, of individual like film makers and,
and auteurs and like obviously we're seated for like a lot of
film makers. So, but there is like a, a kind

(28:30):
of territory where you go into like maybe blurring the line of
like treating movies as content first.
Like what do you think about this movie?
Like what? Like how is this movie being
like introduced? How was it introducing
conversations or like whatever. And so like, I think that's like
a tricky line. We have a.

(28:50):
Question about that later. Today.
Oh, we do. Yeah, OK.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Which is a really good question
to the point where I was like doI even want to answer this on
the? Phone because like.
It's going to be a long answer between the two of us.
So that said it, we've never really got heated in a blow up
way. The only time we have gotten
like heated is around scheduling.
And it's something that we both are just so trash at.

(29:11):
And I don't think it's like either of our faults
necessarily. It's more of just the fact that
we have like two major jobs, which are our primary jobs in
this job. And they're jobs that like
extend outside of a nine to five, you know what I mean?
Like we're constantly reading like.
Constantly, but we also have ourrelationship and we have friends
and we have a social life. It's like hard to balance all
those things. And I, I think when people think

(29:32):
about podcasters, they think about them as again, being sort
of separate. And so when they see each other
on the mic or on YouTube or whatever, whenever they're doing
a show, it's like once a week, twice a week.
Let's like, record this hour. This hour lives alone.
Right. Yeah.
But for us, if it's a Tuesday night and we're both up late
doing something like we're busy or we're going out to see
friends, we're like, well, we'resupposed to do a pot tonight.
I guess we can move it to Wednesday.

(29:53):
It's like, actually my Wednesday's booked.
It's like, OK, we gotta do Thursday.
And so it gets a little messier and yeah, OK, so that that's
that's the best answer I can give for those.
That would be the, that would really be the, the biggest
disagreement is like we said, wewere doing this on Saturday, but
we really want to like, go hang out.
Yeah. And so we we usually put life

(30:14):
first. That's true, especially after
your surgeries. I think if we need a weekend,
our listeners know and they're very supportive of that, of
being like, oh, training Kelsey are a week late to this episode.
Just because they're obviously busy.
It's not because we're chilling.OK.
So next question. Yes.
Oh OK, sorry I need to be betterat.
This I know you keep looking at me because I usually host these.

(30:36):
OK. And thank you for answering
first because it's giving me it's giving me time.
OK, so we have the viewing. Wait, wait, wait.
This is not the IMAX one. Yeah, this is the IMAX.
One OK, so this is like more so right about like viewing
experiences theaters. So what's your take on immersive

(30:58):
viewing experiences like Screen,X4, DX, IMAX, etcetera?
Are they worth it or mostly overrated gimmicks?
We've only done 140X right, mostly because you're back and I
think we did it for the Ford andFerrari, Ford versus Ferrari.
Why is that the one? Yeah, and they sprayed water on

(31:18):
us and our chair was shaking andI was like, this is not a for
us. Yeah, I think we decide.
Yeah, OK. I think love that movie because
we were like, if we're going to go do one, it might as well be a
car movie. It made sense to us, yeah, but I
would say it's not really my thing.
We don't have kids yet and I canimagine an 8 year old being
like, this is my thing and so I understand why it exists.

(31:38):
I don't know much about Screen XIMAX.
We, you know, lived in most of our lives.
We lived outside of Washington, DC and there's a great massive
Smithsonian IMAX. We.
Didn't even know how good we hadit.
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's one of the great big ones across the
country. There's only really like 11:50 I
think in the country. That are there's one in Philly.
Imaxes and we don't have anyone like that close to Denver where

(32:02):
we, where we live around Colorado area.
And the only Imaxes we have hereare like AM CS that are kind of
like and I and I, I like the AMCtheatres and I like how they're
redoing a lot of theaters too. And they're adding the recline
reclining chairs to a lot of them.
They're trying to, they basically trying to turn them
more into like Alan, the draft houses, which I appreciate, but

(32:24):
those Imaxes are fake Imaxes andthey charge you like $25.
A ticket they're expensive but oftentimes like the the seats
are really uncomfortable and I have fragile spine so and
honestly we're getting up there our knees OK.
It is hard to sit in a theatre for like 3 hours It's a Nolan
movie I'm like thinking about how my knees are going to feel

(32:44):
after the movie. I don't know if anyone else
relates or you just go to recliner movies for that reason
like us, but. Yeah, I've been down to like
help someone highlight somethingyesterday and I was as I was
getting Yep, I could feel both my knees wanted to fall out of
my legs and I was like what is happening?
I just turned 31 recently, but like this did not feel like this
last year. Yeah, I've been running a lot
more lately anyways, OK, I've been.

(33:06):
Doing a stair stepper which maybe is not great for my knees
regularly, but. As for the other ideas about the
the theater experiences, I guessI didn't give enough kind of
nuance to this question. But yes, I think most of those
things that you noted are gimmicky.
One thing I do like is that movie theaters, I think need to
start getting away from the filmexperience being eventized and I

(33:31):
need, I think they need to startleaning into preserving the film
experience by making theaters more accessible to different
kinds of movies. Either they are older screenings
of films that are classic moviesor blockbusters from the past,
or make them more affordable, but not just like lower all the
prices initially. I think there's a couple of good
ideas floating around out there the certain theaters have tried

(33:52):
over time. But a really good idea that I
think I've heard other people say that we've been talking
about for a long time is that once a movie opens in theaters
for two or three weeks and it doesn't do well, do not send it
to streamers because you're not going to make any money that
way, no matter what these fucking streamers say.
They're just trying to capitalize on the failure of the
box office because they want youto rent movies from home for
$20. What people should want from

(34:14):
theaters is for them to lower the prices of movies after a few
weeks. So if I want to go see
Eddington, you know, in the first two weeks, nobody goes and
sees it. And I don't want to pay $13 a
ticket to go see it After two weeks, they just lower the
price. It's like 7 to 10 bucks,
whatever. And I know we're not the
business people working in theaters, but there's a big
demand just to send that movie to streamers to make more of a

(34:34):
profit on the the back end from the rented the the rentals.
But if the theaters really care about the the theater experience
and I think just like lower the prices, make it more.
Accessible. Yeah.
Well, I wonder anyone who is actually like in the the theater
business or I know we have some like industry people who listen
to the pod let us know like, do people make money or theater,

(34:57):
you know, theaters make money onthose like $5 movie nights.
You know, you have like a a Tuesday or Thursday often times
where they'll have like a discount sounded movie night.
Because I think like that is true that there are a lot of
people who would like to go see a movie, but it is just so
expensive. It's like, why would I spend
money on this experience when I could just like go out to dinner
and get food instead? Which I get, but.

(35:20):
I think theaters have said they,like, haven't made money from
tickets in like, decades. They make money from popcorn.
They make money from food and drinks.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I mean, but I think that withthe the like 40X and all that
shit. What is screen X by the way?
I think that's the one that like.
Goes around like the walls. Sounds stressful.
I believe. Or maybe that's just a big

(35:40):
immersive screen. Someone let us know if you've
been. We haven't been to a screen.
XI just need Dolby. Yeah, I need good sounds, you
know what I mean? And I need the screen to be
bigger than the average large screen like Alamo has the the
big show at one of our Alamos that we go to.
And I know every Alamo in a certain region has one of those
big shows. And it's just a pretty big
screen, bigger than a normal screen that you find an AMC or

(36:01):
normally an Alamo Regal. It's not an IMAX standard, but
it has great sound. And so that's all I need.
I don't. I don't really need much more
than that. But I agree, like I think the re
releases of very popular movies,especially around like
eventising like holidays like Halloween, you know, doing like
the Thing or really like great horror movies or similar around

(36:24):
like Valentine's Day, whatever it is.
Those have been some of my favorite screenings to either re
watch movie with people. Like we've gone to see Harry
Potter, for example, and they were just like a bunch of
millennials, you know, like crying at the end of Part 2 or
suddenly have a collective experience or to like experience
it with someone for the first time.

(36:45):
Like we've brought friends to a movie that we love, but they're
able to see it in like such an amazing experience with the
sound in a theater with other people.
And I know like people bring their kids to like Star Wars,
for example, like it's just coolto see people introducing people
they love to a a movie that they.

(37:05):
I mean, the Harry Potter movies are being reshown at all
theaters this past month, and they're all sold out like by the
time you want to go get tickets the day of.
So yeah, there's a big demand for that.
I'll also say that I would pay apremium to watch a concert.
We watched the Beyoncé movie documentary like 2 years ago and
it turned into like a full on concert where like we were just

(37:25):
like getting into IT, people in the crowd were getting into it.
It was a lot of fun and not everybody can afford a concert.
And if so, if you're going to start eventising movies in a
really fun way, I think bringingconcerts to.
People live streaming. Live streaming would be a really
cool idea. I know that's not always
beneficial for the musicians andwho they work for and those
venues because they make more money just people coming, but

(37:48):
that'd be dope. That would be a good idea for
some relationships there. I think they can make it happen.
Yeah. We're Alamo Drafthouse people
because we have the draft pass and I know a lot of people did
the AMC pass as well. Side note about Alamo
Drafthouse, I see people talkingshit about Alamo Drafthouse
online. I see you and I and I disrespect
and I want to disrespect you. I do not have good feelings

(38:10):
toward you if you disrespect. What are they saying?
They say, they say mean things, hurtful things.
They say that people who order food at Alma Draft House are
annoying or irritating because people get in the way, the
service gets in the way. This is what I have to say to
you. If you are critical of someone
at 5:30 PM sitting down after a long day's work, getting some
chicken fingers and a beer, thenmind your business, okay?

(38:33):
Let them enjoy themselves because unless they're making,
unless they're on their phone, which you shouldn't be, or
taking videos of the screen, or being annoying, talking to the
person next to them, or being loud, or being rude to the
service, you know, staff, whatever.
If none of those things are happening, someone just enjoying
their meal and having a drink, like chill the fuck out.
Like just go to a different movie theatre, then yeah,
because that's one of my most annoying takes I see online.

(38:55):
It's some a famous actor said itrecently.
The. Guy they don't like.
Yeah, the guy from the show thatyou watched the the satire
religious show. Oh, from gemstones.
Yeah, the main guy Bride, Yeah, he was just like making fun of
people who order food Alamo and,like, eat and drink Alamo.
And I was like, listen. Danny, love your work.
That's fine. We.

(39:16):
Checked out of like worker culture, like actually people
who work to like, make fun of people who.
Yeah, like who need to eat dinner while?
Wanting to watch a movie? Yeah, yeah.
Don't have time to cook before amovie or are too exhausted to.
I mean, also like the theater, you know, food is expensive.
So like when we do it, we're like, this is a night, you know?
Usually it's a gift card. Yeah, which the people in our

(39:38):
lives are, you know, very kind about.
Like we're a very easy gift receivers now because people are
like, oh, Trey and Kelsey like movies.
And yes, we do. So like thank you for the movie
gift. But yeah, we'll usually do it
with a gift card or it's like, OK, we're like bawling out
tonight and we're going to get some chicken fingers, but.
Split some French fries. We.
Really would say the only, the only people who maybe just need

(40:03):
to like, you know, slightly takethat advice are some men who
like, just don't know how to like eat next to people.
I understand or being a little gross or like.
That's why I said all that I kind.
Of yeah, like, I don't I don't know that wings I think it's
more so like an Alamo menu question of like, I don't know
that wings are the best food to eat next to a stranger.

(40:23):
Good take And and so like I understand, you know, the the
I've I have felt grossed out next to someone in that
situation. Yeah, because they're like
they're they're doing it like they do it at home.
I. Guess you're right.
I guess if if we for example, ifwe had a Trey Kelsey Extra
Credits movie theatre, I think we would just have a happy hour
menu and that'd be it. It would be like 6 appetizers.

(40:45):
Finger like bite foods? Yes.
It's not like drinks. You got to get into the food in
order to have it. Yeah, I, I, I guess you're
right. We really don't order like
pizzas or burgers or anything like that.
Alamo. But pizzas are fine.
No, these are like a singular like.
Somebody taking a whole space with entrees on their table.
But even then, like still, like if they're not like just I just

(41:06):
think people are so rude. The theater etiquettes.
I don't, I'm not going to get into this.
But also like I don't like candy.
So I mean I love chocolate, but I don't like candy or and
popcorn makes me like super sick.
The movie popcorn, even though it's so good if I when I eat it
at the time of when we watch movies, like if I eat it too
late, then I can't sleep it likeI don't know why, but so like I

(41:29):
want I want food. I want a meal like I love eating
while I watch a movie. I just I really like French
fries while I eat my while I watch my movies.
I've become addicted to that nowwhen I'm when I go to a theater,
I want like a box of fries and like some ketchup and I'll have
a beer while I'm watching a movie at 6:00.
And I think it's a lot of fun. Like that's, that's like like a
bliss for me. It's a therapeutic experience.

(41:50):
So just seeing those tweets online or seeing just, I don't
know. I.
Get they're insulting your friesYeah, but yeah, I think mostly
those yeah, I I I agree like thescreen X again, let people let
us know like what your experience has been with that.
I feel like I've been focused oneverything but maybe it it's
better than it it sounds but 40Xin particular is I feels

(42:10):
annoying to me. I'm pro IMAX though.
Obviously IMAX is awesome. I mean, IMAX is becoming such a
big deal because of the Christopher Nolan.
Project 1000%. I love an IMAX.
But Greta Gerwig with the Narniamovies that are coming out and
how they're not going to Netflixfirst.
They're hitting Imax's first. And I don't even think they're
hitting regular theaters. I think that's the distribution
deal, which is insane. And then it'll go to Netflix.

(42:31):
IMAX is going to become more andmore popular over the next few
decades. And I'm fine with paying a
premium on a good. IMAX, a real IMAX, Yeah, but
we're getting, you know, fucked over.
It's like crook shit that's happening at AMC when they're
offering $25 to see, you know, warfare and IMAX when it's just
really the sound that's worth it.
OK. Speaking of warfare, next

(42:52):
question is going to be about this.
Oh my God, sorry. I'm looking at you, looking at
the ground. Well, that's right, you're
usually. You only just read these
questions. You want me?
To Oh no, no, you're good at like transitioning us usually.
So like I obviously you're you're hosting.
Speaking of warfare. Yeah, you did.
You did a good job. OK, OK.
Yeah. So what's been your most?

(43:12):
It's hard to host. Memorable theatre experience
this year. Wow, what a great question.
So Warfare by Alex Garland and Iwas other.
Co director with you. No, I saw this by myself.
It was a movie we're going to cover because we've been very
vocal and positive about the Alex Garland project.
We have a Civil War episode fromhim where we explore his whole

(43:33):
filmography in that movie in depth about why we felt so
complicated about it on Patreon still, I believe, for free
members, but certainly for all members.
Yeah, it is for Free Members andWarfare, a movie that I don't
want to get into the politics ofright now, but I thought it was
more hollow than I expected. Is a sensory overload in a
really impressive way, a really unique way, some incredible

(43:55):
sound design and mixing that borders on like being too
abrasive for maybe even you to watch in theaters 'cause I know
that that can over stimulate you.
And it is an over stimulating movie.
After the 1st 30 minutes, you feel every scrape, every bomb to
echo of people running around inthe background.
It's immersive, it's overwhelming and you feel like

(44:18):
you're there. And that is a compliment to the
movie cinematically. Now that the choice of that
immersion narratively again morequestionable.
That's a whole other episode though.
We'll probably talk about that more at the end of the year.
What about you? That's one I have I.
Have a That's so yeah, I'm interested to watch it.
You know, a movie like that is fascinating to me because it

(44:39):
feels like something that if it came out when we were growing
up, like on TNT, that group of actors would have like blown up.
Yeah, it's a Black Hawk Down level movie, like a Josh
Hartnett. In that whole ensemble yeah and
I think they they did have like a fun press run together you.
Know. But it was just really

(45:00):
interesting because now that we have so much access to the
personality of the actors and you know, correct me if I'm
wrong because I haven't seen themovie, but it felt like maybe
the character they were playing in the movie was disconnected in
terms of the certain type of like masculinity that was that.
And then in the press run that was a little bit more like

(45:20):
playful between the actors themselves that I I think like
it kind of breaks the the the legacy of a movie that would be
on like a TNT as a like militarya part.
Of a lot of military movies and that's why I think with that
movie it like sometimes Alex Garland, it feels like a guy
using spectacle to be like, I just want to explore this, don't

(45:43):
cancel me. And I love Ex Machina.
I love Annihilation, don't kill us, but I do love men.
Not for the reasons that people.Probably which we've done all of
those. No, no, just Men and Ex Machina
on Patreon. Yeah, but civil.
War and this movie feel like movies that are trying to be
anti war. And then when the criticism is,
I feel like you're not telling the different perspectives with

(46:04):
enough nuance, then critics willcome out who love the movies,
those two movies, and be like, well, maybe this film maker
isn't equipped. So like tell a different
perspective on this because he isn't that, you know, identity
or doesn't follow that perspective.
And I think that's horrible criticism.
And I think that that is a critical defense that evades
responsibility for the film maker and the critic.
And so that movie kind of pissedme off while watching it.

(46:24):
But again, to give it its flowers cinematically, I haven't
really seen anything like that. I imagine that's how people felt
watching Saving Private Ryan in theaters.
Yeah, especially that opening scene in like Half Warfare feels
like the opening scene of SavingPrivate Ryan, which is a
compliment to the cinema of it all.
Yeah, okay. For me, most memorable
experience was the question thatI read.

(46:45):
Yes, okay, I think do we have a question that's coming later
about like the most surprising because I I don't know we.
Have the most like I think most ambitious.
We have the most disappointing. So you could do surprising here.
You could do that for Ambitious.I guess I'll just do memorable
and surprising together and thenI'll I'll reframe my my answer
for the other question, whateverit is.

(47:06):
OK. I think that 28 years later was
the most memorable experience for me.
I never I think. It's Kelsey Pivot I've ever.
Seen never thought that you know, especially when we did
that episode on the most anticipated movies of the the
year, which IA lot of listeners have like told us they've gone
back to listen to just to see our thoughts before we saw these
movies, which is fun. You know I I I think before the

(47:30):
pod you're like hey, I I think we should put this like on the
list. It would be really high for me,
but just to compromise, you know, because vampires are not
necessarily my thing. Zombies aren't necessarily my
thing. I understand and respect the
commentary that comes with thosegenres.
You don't like creatures? But I just don't, yeah, I don't
care about monsters. And so 28 years later, thought I

(47:52):
was, I actually like didn't dread it necessarily because we
watched 28 Days Later and weeks before.
So I was like, oh, actually I'm excited to see what happens with
this property, but I wasn't overly excited about it.
I was like, OK, I'm like a little bit, you know, more
positive than I would have been just going into it blind.
And I loved I loved the movie. It was weird.

(48:16):
It was it had our kind of like our generation lore in it with
the Teletubbies and like power Ranger, you know, hyper
stylized, yeah, nostalgia cinematic flourishes and also
had a really yeah, really great,like coming of age story,
emotional family story, but thatactually like meant something

(48:38):
within the fabric and and the context like of the politics
connected to the lower of the the mini civilization that was
being built there. Right.
And so like that was so good. I was just I was surprised by
it. And I think also do you humanize
zombies? Crazy, crazy ideas the way that
and also like the the attack on Titan kind of right references

(49:02):
right was great. So yeah, I think that was my
most memorable movie experience ever in the theater was really
into it. I I was really locked in.
There are other movies that surprised me also that I can
talk about, but that, yeah, that's it for me.
I also have Eddington. In terms of the humor of that

(49:22):
movie, the dark satire of it, I've like Eddington a little bit
more than when we discussed it initially.
I still don't love it. I need to rewatch it, obviously.
But, you know, there are a lot of jokes in that movie.
And I think the filmmaker, you know, Ari Astor, was trying to
build a lot of the jokes in thatmovie to provoke a lot of the
audience. And I thought a lot about the
different laughs from that theater experience and the

(49:43):
laughs coming from discomfort and some laughs coming from
people thinking political incorrectness is like edgy
humor. And Ari Astor playing with the
audience in that way and using movie, The movie experience as a
as a mirror, as a tool, but alsoas a way to provoke and also say
something meaningful. It was pretty powerful.
Did I always love what he deep dive versus what he didn't about

(50:06):
that time period? No.
And so I think it also was a little bit of a politically
incoherent movie toward the end,especially in his final scenes
where it just kind of contradicted.
It's like, I guess ethos as a movie.
And also, I think some of the characters were underwritten,
didn't get enough screen time, even though we got some really
eccentric performances from EmmaStone and Austin Butler.
They're just like under underused in the movie.

(50:29):
But that theatre experience was really interesting.
It was interesting it. Reminded me of licorice pizza in
terms of when people chose to laugh at certain things and how
they laughed and who was laughing and from what you from
terms of who you could tell was laughing was fascinating.
Yeah, I think Eddington is, is probably up there for me.
Yeah, as a theatre experience, I've come around on it a little

(50:50):
bit, I think, but then also beenreally kind of once it sat
disappointed in some of the plot, like plot lines that are
smaller, like Emma Stone that really didn't land.
And it's kind of wild to like misuse Emma Stone.
It feels like, you know, a sin. So I agree.
But I think it'll age well, unfortunately.
Yeah, I think though, that like I'm coming around on Eddington.

(51:13):
I think I, I, I was maybe a little bit harsher on it because
I had higher expectations for Ari Astor.
I've loved everything that he's he's put out.
I've loved Hereditary. I'm not as big on Midsummer,
although I know why people love it.
And we were such big fans of Beau is Afraid in a time where
everyone hated Beau is Afraid. We.

(51:34):
Stood there strong we were. 6 fans if Beau was afraid us.
But anyway, I was just such a fan of the weirdness, right that
that comes out of that. You know, I was, I just had high
expectations for Aster here and it didn't totally live up in
that moment. But I definitely need to to
rewatch it before our end of year ranking pod because it

(51:55):
might be better than I thought. Yeah, Black bag where 5 minutes
into that movie and being in that critics screening, I was
like, oh shit, this might be my favorite movie of the year.
Just like calling it really immediately I was like, I called
it a perfectly grilled piece of like salmon and steamed broccoli
on our review and I stand by that take.

(52:16):
It just was like a perfect meal.One of the more rewatchable
movies that came out this year, a movie they truly do not fund
anymore. Where a lot of film makers
outside of just Steven Soderbergh could do a great job
with in terms of it being like acool film, a suave movie, great
music, great performances and anincredible ensemble.
A pretty like awesome mystery and a satire on marriage.

(52:40):
Just everything felt really crisp.
Everything felt really rounded. And I just love the way
Soderbergh makes movies. So that was a really fun
experience being it's really cool when you're sitting in a
theater knowing that you just totally connect with the movie
on screen cinematically. And that movie had that that
vibe for me. Yeah, I'm happy for you.
I think this movie is one that Iliked, but maybe not as much as

(53:02):
you. I really loved all the
performances and I think it justkind of boils down to like Clue
being such a huge movie for you growing up also, and this being
like a more stylized version of this kind of like mystery.
Clue for people. Yeah, yeah.
And so I I definitely loved it. It was, it was like a stressful

(53:22):
movie experience because we had to like go into Denver.
It was a press screening. We're seeing it early and we
were just like coming in right when the movie started, so and
the. And the PR people were like,
just find some empty seats. And we're like, really?
They're like, yeah, yeah. We were hoping there were two.
Seats. Well, because we were late,
someone, yeah, took our seats, which makes sense.
We. Missed this minute?

(53:43):
But regardless, it was great. It was a lot of fun.
I think also, you know, a movie that was surprising to me, even
though we'll do that question later, but just since we're
talking about Soderbergh was presents.
I was not expecting really like that to be good.
And it felt like a very independent film where I could

(54:03):
feel the film making on screen. And some of the actors, you
know, felt maybe a little choppyin certain scenes.
Absolutely. And it was just great.
Like it felt like a short story that I, I was just appreciative
to, to kind of see you get made.Though that wave of indie
auteurs from Soderbergh to Tarantino to feature film makers

(54:25):
like Wes Anderson and that group, that troupe of film
makers who lean into artifice consistently in their movie,
where artifice becomes part of the film language.
And if there's like a magical realism to their films.
Even PTA to a certain degree is so underrated and it's something
I feel like we truly do not finda green light anymore for
independent film makers who wantto do things like that.

(54:46):
It's really hard. OK, So small moments in weapons.
The whole theater really laughedwhen Austin Abrams character
said Willow, That was a great moment.
Sorry, baby. There is a that's one of my
favorite movies of the year. There is a scene where the lead
character, who's also the actress is also the director,
Eva Victor. I think it's Eva.

(55:08):
Yeah. I apologize if it's Eva, but
she's eating a sandwich with theguy who owns a sandwich shop.
And there's having a conversation.
And I thought it was like a really like poignant
conversation and one of the morebeautiful scenes of the entire
year. I don't want to spoil that for
people who haven't seen that movie.
And then also Zoe Kravitz being very good.
And I'm caught in caught, wait, caught stealing.

(55:29):
That's not a very good movie. And Austin Butler's fine in it,
but she when she's in the movie,that movie works.
And then all of a sudden, when she's not in the movie, which is
a choice, the movie falls flat immediately.
I think that that Zoe Kravitz's like relationship with Austin
Butler in that movie made me like Austin Butler.
I think that's like kind of whathappened.

(55:50):
She has a power. Yeah, she has a huge power and
you're right, like yeah, she when she's in it, I'm like, yes,
this is amazing. But then, you know, I think
there's a mistake that was made to leave Austin Butler for for
that long being the the leading kind of character.
With the Matt Smith playing a guy from like, Tony Hawk Pro
Skater too. Yeah, with the Mohawk.

(56:11):
Yeah, it just feels like such a video game character, but I
think yeah, sorry baby was was great.
Also, a really memorable movie theater experience.
I don't want to say anything because I know that was one that
maybe people haven't checked outyet, but a really obviously like
emotional movie, darkly funny movie.
It it really worked. Yeah, Next question.

(56:32):
Oh, that's me. Do you want me to just read
them? This is becoming.
This is. I know I'm.
Sorry, I'm sorry. Not as much of A wait, just a
podcast problem. OK, wait, you read it?
You read it. What is your scariest horror
moment of the year so far? You want me to answer 28 years

(56:53):
Later going back to your love for that movie?
I also love that film. I love 28 Days Later.
It's one of my favorite horror movies.
Danny Boyle is a genius. Alex Garland with one of the
great scripts of his career. There is a sequence on the Water
bridge where Alfie Williamson and his father, the his
character and then Aaron Taylor Johnson are running across the

(57:14):
water bridge and a the zombie, the Attack on Titan zombie who
is running naked across the the Ridge is one of the most like
ripping sequences of pure tension, pure dread of the past
few years. For me.
I was like grabbing the side of my seat because I totally
thought that, you know, Aaron Taylor Johnson was just going to

(57:34):
get torn up in that scene. I don't want to spoil anything
from that movie, but it's like fully convincing to, you know,
it fully convinced you to the degree of like, or are we going
to meet new characters because both these people are about to
get destroyed and that doesn't really happen.
No. Yeah.
But yeah, it's. A.
But that was one of the great sequences of the.
Year. I think that was the scariest
moment of the year so far. Yeah, I think it's it's hard

(57:57):
with definitely. I think Sinners was like up
there for scariest horror moments, but not necessarily
through the like. There was more I guess like
tension and not really like a jump scare quality right to the
vampire portion where everyone'slike turning into vampires.

(58:19):
It's more like a mystery suspension or suspense, kind of
like feeling that I really likedas a thriller, right?
But I would say there were some like really great horror, like
I'm scared in this moment at thebeginning of Sinners that we
when we were kind of like at an arm's length from a lot of the
characters and being introduced,especially to our the Irish like

(58:43):
vampire, right who? Starts this all character.
Yeah, well, the movie kind of starts off as a western with
smoking stack and then kind of moves into this Western neo
western zombie. What you're kind of wondering,
is it a zombie movie? Is it a vampire movie?
What's going on with this? And then Jack O'Connell takes
over the KKK husband and the wife's house and he's rocking in

(59:06):
the chair with the baby as the wife comes in.
And that was fucking. Right.
Well, going down the hallway, like that's terrifying.
Yeah. Anytime we're in a house and
we're moving slow and someone isthere, like we just watched The
Conjuring, which we have a lot of thoughts about The Conjuring.
We should do an episode on The Conjuring I.
Got so many thoughts about Vecna.
What's her name? Not not valic.
That's valic is from the second.I mean, Valic, I got a lot of

(59:31):
thoughts about the nuns I got a lot of thoughts about.
Bathsheba is the first one. Love Bath Bathsheba.
What a what an idea. The collapse right in The
Conjuring, like that sort of feeling was replicated in that
moment for for me, when the JackO'Connell characters in the in
the house, I was really scary. Weapons.
All the Aunt Gladys scares, all pretty good.

(59:53):
Yeah, James one's conjuring us. Going back to your point.
I think there are a lot of like similar to, you know, there are
all these different types of scares in a horror movie and the
Aunt Gladys scenes veered on thethe kind of like.
Not grotesque or like gore, but almost like her cutting her palm
open, right? Yeah.

(01:00:15):
Shocking horror. Yeah.
Like like things that you understand are very supernatural
but still have a horror effect on you are are special to be
able to create. So yeah, I would say that the
Ant cloud scenes. Well, there's the basement jump
scene, right, with Josh Brolin. There's the peekaboo under the
sheets with Josh Brolin and his nightmare.
Yeah, but the one we didn't talkabout in our weapons episode,

(01:00:38):
the one I forgot to bring up, isthat there's a Zach Craiger ISM
sequence where the camera is moving from Julia Garners
characters POV and the camera asshe's in bed and the camera
moves to the side where she looks down her hallway from her
bedside and we see the POV behind her head.
And there's a lot of Povs from behind characters in this movie,
which makes it gives it a fairy tale esque feeling.

(01:01:00):
And then she looks up and Gladysis above her on the ceiling in
the screenplay. That red is really creepy.
And I was still kind of like, how is he going to do this?
And it's become a again, like a kind of a crackerism thing where
the camera moves with the POV character that reminds you of
something like John Carpenter, where it's from the strictly the
POV of like a Michael Myers figure of like Halloween starts,
for example. But it's it's still kind of

(01:01:23):
unique in his own thing. And I'm sure he pulled it from
someone that I can't think of right now, but it's just really
well shot in that sequence. Yeah, probably the scariest
moment of that movie for me personally.
I, I think so I that's also a shot that's in barbarian too,
when Tess looks out of her bedroom after the door opens,
right? A very similar kind of like
looking and following the point of view of the character's eye

(01:01:46):
line to look down the hallway, which is very relatable, I
think. Like, you know, just if you've
been like a dark house or something.
They do those shots and it follows which uses camera in a
really cool way. Yeah, like you're, you're
scanning the space, right? Those those really work.
I think, you know, we talked about this on the weapons pod,
right? That like we've, you know,

(01:02:06):
talked to Zach. And so it was a unique
experience to read the script like years ago, but and kind of
see like, how are these things going to show up on screen,
right, especially in such a a supernatural movie.
And I think the one that I was anticipating the most that
scared me when I was reading thescript was when Austin Abrams is

(01:02:27):
in the woods. You're right.
And like Gladys is sort of there, right?
Like those ones worked for me when I saw them too, even though
I like knew it was coming. I didn't.
The screenplay doesn't totally give away how funny that Austin
Abrams was going to lean into that performance.
You know, it's a tragic character, but he's so funny in

(01:02:47):
that movie that I don't think I was scared in the same way I
thought I would be in the forest.
It would just, I would just kindof wanted to see him react.
I was getting sad while watchingthe movie because I was like, Oh
no, Gladys is going to kill his character.
He's probably the most interesting character of this
film so far, but he's kind of, he's in a ton of weapons edits
now, so I think he's getting hislove.
In Eddington, there's a Hereditary type moment where

(01:03:08):
Joaquin Phoenix walks into Emma Stone's room, but she's not in
the house anymore, so he thinks she's come back from leaving
him. And there's someone standing in
the corner of his room and it's in the dark and it's very
hereditary. And something Ari leans into a
lot in all of his movies of likean old unknown figure standing
in the shadows and ends up just being her mom.
I think it's her mother figure. Oh.
I didn't remember that. And it's a jump scare, but it's

(01:03:30):
like really well shot and choreographed.
And then a shout out to the onlyshout out this movie will ever
get from me in my entire life. But a shout out to the first few
minutes of Jurassic World Rebirth.
Oh yeah. Where they lean into the horror
elements of the originals opener.
And it's a really dark sequence where some people get locked,

(01:03:53):
you know, in a. Cage, that's so true,
essentially. With a dinosaur.
Like the velociraptor first opening.
Yeah, and I turn to you after that opening going, this movie
is going to fucking rule becauseit's going to be a horror film,
like a relatively PG13 horror film for Jurassic Park that we
have probably haven't seen that kind of tone since the first or
second one. And that movie did not keep that

(01:04:13):
promise. Yeah, I would really say the
only, you know, scene in that movie that I was like,
interesting was the T Rex, like chasing the family.
That was the only one I was really invested in at all and
everything else. The mutated T Rex, or like the
original T Rex, the original 1D Rex or something?
Like that the original one that they kind of like wake up when

(01:04:34):
they're in the raft. God, I hate that movie.
We're going to get to that in a second.
I did like the Pokémon aspect ofthat, that movie, like the
little girl finding a Pokémon orlike, you know, we're just
watching Stranger Things, how Gavin's character finds, what
are they Dart. Gaytan Gaytan Monserazo's
character finds Dart Yes, what is?

(01:04:54):
His character's name. His character's name not.
No Lucas will. I'm forgetting his name Mike and
I don't remember. Was it?
I thought it was Gavin when I. Think No, it's not Gavin.
I forget. It's OK, we can keep going.
OK, yeah, sorry, Stranger Thingsfans.
We have some Stranger Things content to to talk about

(01:05:15):
anyways. Best and worst movies of 2025?
Kelsey doesn't matter. Best and worst movies.
Why don't they list his? They only have games.
It's Dustin. I think it's Dustin.
Dustin yeah, that sounds like OKand it sounds like Gavin.
OK, Keep going. Keep going.
Oh, this episode's already long.Let's go.
All right, so best and worst movies of 2025 so far.

(01:05:37):
I'm just going to do this quick.I don't want to do a lot of
talking about these movies because we have a lot of
questions we haven't hit yet. Tied at #5 For me, I'm just
going to do quick. Top five tied #5 Sinners weapons
#4 sorry baby #3 the Phoenician scheme #228 years later #1 black
bag. That will likely change in about
four months. Yeah, but that's where I'm at
right now. Wow.
OK, I'm not going to do a top five, but 28 years later, I'm

(01:06:01):
not surprised it's so high for you.
I think it's my #1, which is very.
Surprising, yeah. That's cool, though.
That's sick. Any other?
Does anybody come close or is that it?
No, I think that's it. Wow, that movie.
Really hit you The thing is is that this time of the year
things are definitely going to change like I still think 28
years later will be up there forme but the all the movies that

(01:06:25):
are coming out like 1 battle after another and.
We've got a Luke, one of the movie coming in three weeks.
We've got. A yokeem Trier.
Lynn Ramsey, Jennifer Lawrence, Robert Pattinson movie coming
out in a month. We got yeah, Yokeem Trier.
We got, you know, James Cameron making Avatar 3, which is
obviously is going to be in our top ten.
OK, you reviewed and rated weapons lower than expected.

(01:06:46):
What's been your biggest disappointment of the year?
So to be clear about this, because we got a lot of weapons
questions about how we were so like critical of weapons.
I went back and listened to the episode.
I don't think we were that critical of that movie.
Not saying that this question saying that necessarily, but a
lot of people did reach out about that.
I think they were a little bit surprised that we weren't like,

(01:07:06):
we love this and This is why it's perfect.
Instead, we we tried to be honest about our review of
anything. When we stopped the pot, I was
like, were we not critical enough because of our connection
with Zach and like him coming onthe show and reading the
screenplay in advance? But to be clear, I like weapons.
Yeah, me too. And you know, we've even
discussed going back and doing deeper dives on Weapons and

(01:07:28):
Sinners, those two movies later this year.
I don't think we'll have time, but we've discussed it off mic.
But that's not been the biggest disappointment for me.
I already said it's like my fifth favorite movie of the year
with Sinners. My biggest disappointments this
year have been Bong Joon Ho's Mickey 17 and then Spike movies
highest to lowest. And I named the film makers
because those are are two auto tours that I love.

(01:07:50):
They're great film makers that have made very special movies to
me. But both of those films really
were like messy mid tier studio projects that were these big
genre swings that to me fell flat and were incoherent in
places and had like some really over stylized choices that

(01:08:10):
didn't serve serve the story, whether it be production design
or score or staging issues or performances that could have
needed another take or two. And I thought a lot of the humor
of both movies sometimes landed and sometimes didn't land.
So they weirdly have very similar problems to me.
So I would say those are my biggest disappointments.
There are other movies that disappointed me, but those two,

(01:08:32):
like I went into the theater andthis is not something you should
do when we have a question aboutthis later as well, but with
pretty high expectations becauseI think Bong Joon Ho is like one
of the great directors right now.
And Spike Lee obviously is one of the most legendary film
makers of like the past five decades.
So that was irritating. And it was also irritating to
have to like do deep dives on them and be like, here's why

(01:08:52):
they are honestly like 2 1/2 Star Movies for us or whatever
they. Were well, yeah, and you can go
listen to highest to lowest because, you know, we talked
about we all we did Spike Lee movies also on our Patreon and
we talked about our relationshiplike to him and his movies and
how we were just kind of like surprised and disappointed
because we, you know, think his movies are so like thematically

(01:09:16):
interesting. Like we talked about do the
Right thing and inside Man in particular has some of our
favorite Spike Lee movies and Malcolm X, but highest to lowest
was a huge like turn on some of the like political reasons that
his movies are interesting or like make a statement.
And I think, you know, similarlyfor highs to lowest and Mickey
17, you know, these are some of our favorite actors also like

(01:09:39):
the the front of these movies. So like we have Denzel
Washington and then we have likeRobert Pattinson.
And so to see, you know, Denzel Washington and highest to lowest
as like this capitalist sympathetic figure who is then,
you know, we we talked about everything in terms of the
conversation with like A$AP Rocky character and the strange
politics around that. And then also Robert Pattinson,

(01:10:01):
who did a great job. But I think like.
It's a great performance. Yeah, and and I like the the
character, like can see and I I like the the story, but it
doesn't end up working out. It feels a little messy like
you're saying, and not all the humor landed.
It felt a little long. It was also like, you know,
combining Okja with a more sci-fi, elevated Your Fifth

(01:10:24):
Element humor, but also Blade Runner.
It's just there were a lot of fashion.
Stuff Mark Buffalo. They're like, he's a fascist,
but also is he also like a replicant or whatever?
Like they it felt like the ending of that movie felt like
it was so chopped to bits that there were some studio edits
made in there. To me, that was like our
speculation on that episode. I remember us being like, I
think somebody else had their hands on this movie.
Yeah. So that that has.

(01:10:45):
Something to do with? It for me, my most disappointing
movie was Materialists. I went in again and a lot of
this question has to do with like us, you know, loving the
filmmaker and being like sad either about what was said or
like the being a little messy interms of the Mickey 17 aspect of
it. But in terms of materialists,

(01:11:06):
like I was so excited to see like Pedro Pascal and Chris
Evans and Dakota Johnson in a sort of like ROM com or just ROM
drama, right? Like, I know it wasn't supposed
to be a ROM com. That was a huge, you know,
conversation coming out of it. In a romance genre that we don't
see funded a lot anymore? Yes exactly.
I was excited for that as. Well, we watched a lot of

(01:11:27):
romantic dramas to prep for this, like the classics, like
You've Got Mail, other right dramas as well.
But this just, you know, really fell flat for me and in similar
ways that we talked about with like highest to lowest and and
how, you know, this movie was trying to talk about like class

(01:11:48):
and basically how that is a a big consideration in terms of
like how capital right comes into dating and how dating is
not necessarily this like just romantic project.
And so that's an interesting premise, yes, but like where it
ended up was deeply uninteresting and almost like
not even unsatisfying, just likeI I felt like it was actually

(01:12:11):
going in the wrong direction in terms of what I think about this
conversation. So that was a a disappointment
for. Me well, it was like monogamy is
an economic proposition is bad and toxic materialism as a
social construct is wrong. Dating being performative in the
21st century is also very strange, but it says those

(01:12:32):
things on the loop and then basically has to go to Johnson
be like, but I don't like poor people.
And then by the end of the moviebeing like, I do like poor
people, but also I want you to quit your art job and you get a
job and I'll take the promotion at work.
And then Pedro Pascal got a surgery to like be taller and I
was like, what the fuck is this movie?
So and then Celine Song came outand defended it.
And as we said with the past lives conversation that we had,

(01:12:54):
she is incredible at making verypersonal stories and having like
this emotional precision while also being somatically clear and
is such a great that's such a great mind for capturing visuals
that speak to the language of the script in the.
Themes like the dreamlike sequences in past lives.
Just unreal shots in past lives.But there were some narrative

(01:13:14):
choices made in that movie that we had criticism of of the time
that we're not very popular because that movie, again, was
like really loved and it deserved a lot of that love.
We really like the movie a lot too.
But you can see how those issuesbecame more obvious with a
bigger budget here. And I think you nailed it Like
materialist in highest to lowest.
Kind of feel like glossy streaming movies made by studios

(01:13:35):
about like with some class critiques that sort of
contradict themselves throughout.
And listening to Celine Song come out in defending her movie
recently was also very sad because clearly she had all of
the intentions going into makingthat movie that we also agree
with politically and thematically.
That did not get across. That movie just did not get

(01:13:55):
across. And for us at least, I think
there are a lot of people that was a very divisive.
Film and also, you know, this isa maybe we can move into the the
question about like Pedro Pascalbecause.
Yeah, sure. This movie in particular was a,
a movie where I was bored duringthe scenes with Dakota Johnson

(01:14:17):
and Pedro Pascal. There was 1 scene in particular
when they're having dinner and she's like, I, you don't
actually don't want to date me so we should just stop because
I'm probably not like end game for you in terms of the
particular like, you know, formsof capital that like you are
looking for in a partner, right?And and so like, that was a a
good scene between them, but I was bored when I was in scenes

(01:14:39):
with Pedro and that was really deeply disappointing.
So the question is, is there a real limit to seeing Pedro
Pascal on screen? At what point is Pedro Pascal in
too much? Are we still not tired of him,
or are we still not tired of him?
Going back to your point, I think Celine Song tried to cast
him as a George Clooney, Pierce Rosen, Richard Gere figure and

(01:15:04):
materialist, and I think we've been very clear about this.
Pedro Pascal is the perfect blend of silly and sexy, and he
is our current like Jeff Goldblum, but he's also like a
very dramatically complex actor.Not that Goldblum hasn't been
dramatically complex in his career, but I think Pedro's in
another. He's he's like a Ryan Gosling.
He is like a Ryan Gosling and. He's someone who like has such

(01:15:27):
an amazing personality that like, why not include it as like
Ryan Gosling now is able to do? And to go to this question like
are we overexposed to Pedro Pascal and materialist in
Eddington and Fantastic Four in The Last of Us all in the past
six months? Maybe.
But like we're only overexposed to how studios have been
presenting him. I don't think we are overexposed

(01:15:49):
to the actor or person that we know to be like Pedro Pascal in
interviews and as like a public figure who is like very seems to
be very cool and very interesting.
And everybody's worked with has like said like stellar things
about him from film makers to other performers.
And for whatever reason, the studio system and some directors
want to make him the next Clint Eastwood.

(01:16:09):
They want to make him the next Harrison Ford.
And that doesn't make any fucking sense to.
Me, it makes no sense. Also because like that kind of
stoic masculinity is not interesting.
Like take Fantastic Four for example.
Why is he a boring character? It's a Marvel movie you can play
with a character. I didn't say this on that
episode, I think, but I just want to say it now to have it
stamped. Basically what I think is
happening in studios are like, we need a sexy, silly, rich

(01:16:33):
white guy, and everybody loves Pedro Pascal, so we're going to
ask him to play the rich white guy.
And that's obviously deeply strange because Pedro Pascal is
this incredibly sexy, smart, thoughtful Latino man in the
public eye. And to not let him just be
himself in movies is so fucking condescending and disappointing
because he's so obviously would be just good in a ROM com with

(01:16:53):
Dakota Johnson. Like just let them be in a ROM
come together. They don't even need to be
dating. They'd be best friends.
Do a fucking Love Island or. Something and he could still be
a wealthy like guy who's wrong for her right but he doesn't
have to be boring. Yeah.
And so you know, to answer this this question, so we're not just
venting here, Do I think Pedro Pascal would be better off being
the the 3rd or 4th lead in blockbusters and stealing every

(01:17:16):
other scene and then headlining one perfect vehicle for him
every two or three years? Yes.
Do I think he'd be great at that, like a Philip Seymour
Hoffman kind of career? Yes.
I'd rather see him do something like that.
But also I'm happy he's getting the back because he's making so
much money right now. I don't know what those numbers
look like, but I can imagine they're insane.
And he's about to lead The Avengers films.
Like he's going to be the new RDJ, like Robert Downey.

(01:17:39):
I guess Rd. JS back.
These Marvel movies are cooked you.
Know what's interesting though? Like when we see Ryan Gosling
leading a movie and we've we've seen him do things where it's
like he is almost a side character in in the main
character's like shoes like a Barbie, right?
Being like this Ken figure who loves horses and shit.

(01:18:02):
Or even like smaller movies likeThe Big Short that's successful.
He's still playing sporting. Yeah, he feels like a big
character. Exactly.
His presence is so felt that you're like, I know Ryan Gosling
is like a part of part of this. And, you know, of course, a
shout out to Kendall Roy in thatmovie.
But but also though, like, go back to sleep.
We think. We think, yeah, it's such a good

(01:18:23):
but but also what movie was I just thinking, oh, yeah, like
nice guys, right. Like that's something that it
feels like, OK, he is like fullyleading this movie with Russell
Crowe, but is able to like use all of his talent.
So it has to be like a very specific world to do this And
not movies like this don't come out all the time.
And often times leading people, you know, are in maybe like

(01:18:46):
there's the mayor role right in Eddington that requires maybe
some sort of critique of an institution that then is like
put forward in the character. So like that's part of it, but.
They're asking to play Gavin Newsom, but it's Pedro Pascal.
It's crazy. It's weird.
It doesn't make any sense. Yeah.
So yeah, it's really frustrating.
And there are just great public personas like Ryan Gosling or

(01:19:09):
Keanu Reeves, who you just want to get to know them.
They seem really cool. And they also have like a
mysterious energy to them. They're almost like you'll never
really know them and you respectthat.
And there's a boundary there. And I like that Aunt Pedro
Pascal, where everyone feels like they knows him, they know
him, but they don't really. And it's just, it's just really
annoying to see Hollywood misusehim.
So to answer this question, I don't think we've gotten enough

(01:19:32):
with Pedro Pascal. I think we've barely seen him.
That would be my answer, which is I know is a strange answer
considering he's in two TV shows, A Mandalorian and Last of
Us in three movies in 2025 or whatever.
But I feel like we've never actually seen him, truly like
him on screen. It's been a while, so I hope we
still continue to get more of him.
Yeah, for sure. Backing up a little bit because

(01:19:52):
I think we skipped over some questions in terms of biggest
disappointments this year. I thought Thunderbolts was
horrible, so I don't want to talk about that.
I think Marvel's cooked go back in the store superhero episode.
I'm saying that with love in my heart for what Marvel used to be
in its period of time. Pre end game Jurassic World
Rebirth offended me. Garbage movie, garbage

(01:20:14):
characters. I never want to go see a movie
again that is a franchise legacymovie movie that's like, hey, we
stole your money and we're goingto tell you through the
characters. When the characters literally
go, I'm just here for the money.And also dinosaurs.
Kind of boring, right? So let's just like, make all the
dinosaurs into one dinosaur. Actually, we don't even really
care about dinosaurs. We Yeah, again, we just want
your money. And so like, that's basically

(01:20:34):
what it felt like to watch that Jurassic World movie.
I thought it was a joke and and disrespectful.
Honestly, I want the money back.Yeah, there was a moment I felt
like particularly offended whereScarlett Johansson and Oh my
gosh, blinking on. Jonathan Bailey.
Yes, loved him, who also was like totally misused in in this
movie, but they're just having aconversation and all of a sudden

(01:20:56):
all of a sudden, right, we hear the for no reason like that is
that is a sacred sound that should not be missing.
They do it twice. They do it that time.
And when she's talking to my Herschel Ali, he's like, yeah,
my wife blew up in this car. She's like, yeah, my partner
just died too. And all of a sudden it's like,
and you're like, what the fuck is going on?

(01:21:18):
Wait, while we're still in this?You know, like the family in
that movie. While we're still in this
territory, I just have to say like hot stealing was
disappointing for me a little bit.
We we talked a little bit about that on a past episode maybe,
but but maybe we'll talk about it at our.
End here on highest to lowest. Yeah, we brought it up at the
beginning. Yeah.
It was also an awkward movie experience because we watched
Matthew McConaughey interview Darren Osky and Austin Butler.

(01:21:40):
And Matthew McConaughey was justlike, basically wanted to be in
a relationship with Austin Butler.
He's like, I love you. You are younger me.
Yeah. And Austin Butler was like, you
could tell he's a little bit hesitant.
He's like, do you know if anyoneasks you who your hero is, tell
them you in 10 years it's gonna kill.
But I think that Austin Butler and Matthew McConaughey were,

(01:22:00):
yeah, very strange to watch. Like in one room.
We'll definitely talk about Austin Butler in a second with
with another question. But while we're on this, I just
have to also say that I know what you did last summer was a
huge disappointment to me. I don't know how you mess it up.
I think we already said this on the pod, but let us make the
next one because the fact. That.
That movie ended the way that itdid was as if someone who didn't

(01:22:22):
even like the first one or get why the first one was
interesting, which we did on Patreon and we treated it as a
very serious commentary of American like paranoia.
And I think it is a it's. Become more relevant?
Yes, it's become far more relevant.
It is a B movie masterpiece, it's quite literally the A+B
movie tier that it should be andit was just totally mishandled

(01:22:45):
and I was so sad about it. I completely forgot, you know, I
was so mad about that. I didn't even put it in my 20.5
list. It wasn't even at the bottom of
my list because I just like didn't want to think about it.
Or talking about it do. They make a decision in the last
15 minutes of that movie to reveal who the killer is, where
literally me and Kelsey Turner each other were like, do you
want to leave? This is ridiculous.
We had slapped in the face and Hank came out of the face,
slapped me in the face. OK, so great question here.

(01:23:11):
Do you think Timothy Chalamet and Austin Butler are on a
similar career path to Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino?
Wow, that's a really interestingquestion.
I didn't see this one. So Timothy Chalamet is doing,
obviously Marty Supreme. He's doing his Catch me if you
Can. He's doing his wall.
Street movie with one of the brothers who made Unka Gems, the

(01:23:33):
Safti brothers, and he's starring that with Gwyneth
Paltrow and Tyler, The Creator. Very very exciting trailer looks
so weird. It looks like it's a parody of
itself. It's very which?
Is one of my favorite like sub genres.
So I'm excited for that. And I love weird Chalamet.
I love funny Chalamet. And it's also been announced

(01:23:54):
that he's doing a mid budget heist movie directed by James
Mangold next year, the filmmakerof Logan and the Bob Dylan movie
from a year 2 ago. And now Chalamet is moving into
a territory where he's doing genre films that used to exist,
that haven't existed for like 15years.
And that's really, really cool. I'm excited about that.

(01:24:14):
But I don't think that means Timothy Chalamet is moving into
a De Niro or Pacino mold of likecrime films or genre films where
they're a little bit extra, which is something Chalamet
leans into. I think a lot of people compare
Timothy Chalamet to Leonardo DiCaprio, obviously Leo, and I
think that's because of their ability to toggle between

(01:24:36):
internally complex and externally volcanic.
Like they both can be very complex and mellow and quiet and
then reserved, and then all of asudden they can turn into the
most extroverted person in a scene and just erupt.
They're just very good at that. But I think if you look at the
style of the actors and the career trajectory of Leo, and to
me, it's not a perfect comp. I would say Timmy is more moving

(01:24:59):
in the direction of like a Christian Bale, OK.
And as far as like Bale did a lot of coming of age movies when
he was younger. He's.
Yeah, he's passing on the Lauriebaton.
Like the Laurie baton of Little Woman.
Absolutely. And they both played internally
conflicted Bruce Wayne figures if you think about it, with Paul
and Dune and Bruce. Oh yeah, that's true.

(01:25:21):
Yeah, and I think Bale and Shalamay are just more similar,
inward, fragile, then suddenly explosive performers, then
DiCaprio, even though Bale I think is in that conversation
with DiCaprio. And I think the way that Bale
moved between doing prestige films, independent films to
blockbuster movies is a way, it is a direction.
I can see Chalamet kind of echoing throughout this later

(01:25:42):
part of his career, even though he's very young still, he's like
30 years old. And I could totally see Chalamet
leaning into the more eccentric parts like doing something like
The Fighter that Bale did or doing something like American
Hustle for whatever you think about that movie.
I like that movie. Not the director, obviously, but
Bale can do all that. And Chalamet, the way he the

(01:26:05):
reason he's different and why he's sort of like a a new
generation version of Christian Bale is that Chalamet is purely
like a theater kid off camera. And he's a little bit like
weird. And so that silliness that he
has makes him a very good hang as a public persona.
Christian Bale treated himself more like Daniel Day Lewis.
He's like very self serious offset and so that's what I

(01:26:27):
would say. Not as much a De Niro person for
me, more of a Christian Bale. Director that's so interesting I
think like De Niro and Leo are interesting comparisons that I
agree don't like fit. I think De Niro is in his own
lane. And then I think like I I also

(01:26:48):
have heard a lot of people compare to me to Leo.
And I think the the difference also with Leo, though, is like
the blockbusters and big movies that he was starring in.
He was playing a specific type of masculinity that just like it
really isn't I think in movies as much anymore.

(01:27:08):
And I don't really want to see him return in in movies.
But like, you know, you think oflike him playing catch me if you
can. That's probably the most like
comparable thing that Leo's doing to Timmy, right?
Like a kind of boyish point of view or like ability to embody
that innocent kind of vibe rightin in their movies.

(01:27:29):
But then you have like Leo doingthings like Departed or like
Revolutionary Rd. getting into like Inception, Django and like
Gatsby, Wolf of Wall Street. I could see people thinking
maybe more so like the a Tarantino route that Leo takes,
like that would be more so something that Timmy would go
into. He seems more APTA guy than a
Tarantino guy. Yeah, but I mean, I but I guess

(01:27:51):
that's kind of like my point is that I don't think, you know,
just because Timmy kind of has the energy of a Titanic Leo or a
Catch Me If You Can Leo means that they are like comparable.
So I like the Christian Bale take for sure.
Because I think if Christian Bale grew up in this generation,
he probably would have been in the direction of Chalamet.

(01:28:12):
If he wasn't in such a self serious acting troupe of people
and didn't come up with like Spielberg at 10 years old, he
wouldn't have taken himself as seriously as Daniel Day Lewis.
And now Christian Bale basicallyretires every five years.
Feels like very similarly to to Daniel Day Lewis.
But we're talking about comps for De Niro.
I didn't think there are people who can do that.
I think people who can do Goodfellas, Cape Fear, Meet the

(01:28:35):
Parents, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, King of Comedy.
There are charismatic, frightening, endearing, darkly
funny actors out there. They're just older than
Charlemagne. I think maybe that's why I can't
compare them. Robert Pattinson seems like the
most obvious comp of somebody who can switch between doing
like, I'm a menacing villain to I'm this like, pulpy, kind of

(01:28:55):
strange figure. And there's a elasticity to De
Niro's performances that only a few actors.
It takes you like 15 to 20 yearsto build a homography that looks
like that. A few actors have evidence of,
like, Margot Robbie is another example.
Adam Driver, Daniel Kluya, Bradley Cooper.
These are like figures. Lapita Nyong'o, These are actors

(01:29:16):
across different genres who haveplayed between like, I can be
villainous and I can be family oriented.
I can be comedic, but ultimatelyI'm very compelling.
It's like basically in the edge of being Denzel Washington,
which is kind of how I view De Niro.
He's like right beneath Denzel to me in terms of like capturing
a movie and making the whole movie about him 'cause that's
how powerful he is. But yeah, it's really hard to

(01:29:39):
accomplish what De Niro's. Accomplished De Niro also has a
very specific like filmography right, but I think not maybe
comparing the characters that hehas been in.
I think you're right. Like it it is definitely older
actors who I'm comparing to his presence too, right?
Like I think our modern day yeah, De Niro like presents on

(01:29:59):
screen are even like an Andrew Garfield or something like that,
right where I'm I mean, maybe that's that's too like, I mean,
this is sounds to me, but like we could comp for some people.
But I I think like he has something where I'm like
watching him. But I think you're right, more
so like Daniel Kaluya is who I thought of, like Oscar Isaac,

(01:30:20):
someone who has like a really strong presence or like a Robert
Pattinson. There was one more person I was
just about to name but now I'm forgetting.
Oscar Isaac, Who's who is the person I was going to bring up
for Al Pacino. When think about actors who
remind you of Al Pacino in termsof someone who can be
emotionally heightened, larger than life, electric and very
vulnerable emotionally. Joaquin Phoenix, Oscar Isaac,

(01:30:43):
Jake Gyllenhaal, Those kind of actors who are a little bit
jumpy. Yeah.
But also can be kind of warm andsometimes endearing, but you
sort of don't trust them all theway because they have something
else going on cooking in their in their heads.
And that's very Pacino. Those actors remind me of Pacino
early to mid stage. Tom Cruise is kind of what
you're looking for when you're thinking about best case

(01:31:03):
scenario for for Pacino. He's like one-of-a-kind almost.
Some other younger actors that Ithink are very much doing Pacino
in their performances are JeremyAllen White, who I said on the
Dog Day Afternoon episode on Patreon, should be sending
checks to Pacino for how much he's just doing Pacino.
Yeah. And then Gabriel LaBelle as
somebody who I think is not necessarily doing Pacino, but I

(01:31:24):
see a lot of young Pacino in him.
I would also say Joseph Quinn issomeone.
That's a great. That's a.
Great. Who is actually, I think a a
better actor than like Jeremy Allen White?
Weirdly, kind of like Pitcher Pascal, an actor who feels a
little misused too, who is very theatrical and very funny.
Yeah, and has not been used correctly.
I mean, I like him in Gladiator too, but he has not really been

(01:31:45):
used correctly in these past fewfilms like Warfare and then also
in in Fantastic Four, even though I think he's pretty good
in that. Yeah, for for the Austin Butler
question. Side of.
This I, you know, I really don'tknow how many people feel the
same as me or if I am someone who is, is like in the minority
of not really liking Austin Butler.

(01:32:07):
I think I would say I didn't really like him until we got
Fedoratha in in Dune and then until we got caught stealing
where I was like, OK, like maybe, but he is kind of bike
riders, right? No, OK, I, well, I saw him in
like some scenes when I came downstairs.
You saw him staring at Jodie Comer.
Yeah, yeah. But was he OK in that?
He's hot. OK.
Well, I also don't think he OK, I, I know he's hot.

(01:32:33):
I know he's hot, but I'm not attracted to him.
So like, yeah. And I think that part of that is
because we grew up with a lot ofactors in this vein of like him
redoing kind of the, the types of roles with the, the
masculinity that I think is justlike not something that I really
want to see in movies anymore. Or I just don't think is

(01:32:53):
interesting unless you're actually approaching it in an
interesting way. And so for me, he feels like
kind of a, a, a copy of like a Brad Pitt.
It's like, stop trying to make Brad Pitt happen again to me.
That's how I feel about Austin Butler.
Yeah. I think more so like we need to
like a Josh O'Connor, you know? Like that's who I want to see.
Right. Sexy, silly.

(01:33:13):
Yeah, it is weird to see how Hollywood's like Glenn Powell.
Please, will you be or Matthew McConaughey?
It's like, bro, we already have Matthew McConaughey.
We still have here. We don't need another one.
And then Austin Butler, very similarly with Brad Pitt.
I think Austin Butler is far more like Val Kilmer.
He's far more like Ben Affleck, OK Yeah.
He's somebody who is very deep, like very much an attractive

(01:33:35):
person. So you understand why they are a
celebrity and why they get to, like, be cast in like,
$1,000,000 movies. And they have superstar energy.
But they kind of feel like they are being miscast as leading
men, where Val Kilmer as an offbeat villain.
And Top Gun is something that I could see Austin Butler doing
that he, you know, excels at anddo in Part 2.

(01:33:56):
That feels like, you know, it's sort of similar, some similar
choices are being made in the extraness of their performances.
But when I feel Ben Affleck or Val Kilmer trying to be deeply
dramatic, I can kind of feel them on screen being extra
there. There is an emotional heightened
energy. They're being expressive to an

(01:34:17):
extra degree. Not to the not to the point of
like Chris Evans, you know, a materialist or actors like that.
But I think Austin Butler is a better dramatic actor than
something like that. But I'm just not sure he
deserves to be called Brad Pitt because Brad Pitt is in the
pantheon of like, Hall of Fame character actors, even if he
seems to be. It's been revealed that he's
like kind of a piece of shit in real life as a actor.

(01:34:40):
He is in that kind of like very special group of people who can
play basically anybody as a character actor.
But he has some similar issues as a leading man.
But Austin Butler has only been in a few movies, which is the
wild thing. So to compare him to Austin
Butler to me is like kind of very strange.
It feels like trying to make what is the Mean Girls thing?

(01:35:01):
Yeah, I literally just thought Iwas like, stop trying to make
Austin Butler's happen. Stop trying to make fetch.
It does feel like that. It feels like that.
It feels like kind of, it feels like it's coming directly from
white people. I would say like we want.
It's like this. The white people coming out
being like, we want Brad Pitt back, we want Matthew
McConaughey back, and it's like,I think we're doing all right.

(01:35:22):
There's a lot of actors. Out there.
Who are not like those actors. We don't need to continue
playing into their their mold. They already exist and we had
their they had their moment. So that's.
Yeah. And also especially, you know,
when you have like Austin Butlerand I think that Nicholas Holt,
for example, does what he does better.
It's a good take. And Aaron Taylor Johnson can do
what he does better. He's.
More of a divisive person of a lot of people performer wise.

(01:35:44):
But I agree. I agree with that take, yeah.
And then you know someone we haven't mentioned but isn't in
the Al Pacino conversation, as well as a Jesse Plemons.
Wow, he. Yeah.
Also Philip Seymour Hoffman beencomped to a lot.
Yeah, you're right. I love Jesse Plemons if he he's
one of the ones that feel like there's a lot of cinephiles who

(01:36:05):
love Jesse Plemons. Like I feel like I've never
heard a negative thing about him.
And maybe a part of it is that he's now become like royalty
because he's like. Married to Dunst, Yeah.
Who he had a crush on when he was a kid.
Yeah, from Spider Man, like whenhe was on like Mike and shit
like that. Like it's kind of legendary,
like relationship. And that they have, like, taste
like Kyrsten Dunst, even though,like, she's not like, one of my

(01:36:25):
favorite actors or anything. She has, like, a legitimate
taste and, like, will choose herprojects very carefully.
And I really respect that about her.
And Jessie Clemens is very similar.
He only works people he wants towork with.
So that's a privileged place to be.
But it's very cool to watch themfrom afar.
So yeah, I see the Pacino kind of, I guess, choices that are
being made. The thing with De Niro and

(01:36:46):
Pacino is they kind of had to sell out later in their career.
And they did some bad movies, like, really bad movies.
So I don't know if any of these actors we just named are going
to get to that point. Yeah.
OK. Next question.
So if you were putting together a film syllabus to better
appreciate cinema and its limits, what is on it?
Honestly, this might be the bestquestion we've gotten, so I'll

(01:37:09):
go first. If yeah, yeah, I don't have an
answer if I'm trying to just take this one.
Yeah, that's fine. If I'm trying to deep dive film
history to better appreciate cinema.
I I've been given bad advice over my lifetime since I was in

(01:37:30):
college, which is to start with like Bicycle Thieves and move
forward. Like, I don't think that's a
good idea for most people. I would start with modern genre
movies and work backwards, whichmight sound a little
counterintuitive or counterproductive if you've
taken a film class before. Sometimes I would, I would think
the average professor shows things chronologically, Like if

(01:37:52):
you're studying for bicycles, thieves, if you're studying
realism in films, maybe you'd watch bicycle thieves do the
right thing in a Nora like 3 different eras.
You know, maybe that's not perfectly chronological, but you
probably get my point. And that's a killer triple
feature if you want to see the evolution of like social realist
neo realist humanist storytelling, but if you're

(01:38:14):
trying to actually appreciate film and not get burnt out by
watching older movies. First, well, also if you have a
day job, right, like it's like afilm class and a syllabus has a
different goal. You have a semester to, like,
move through these things and read about them.
Like I think, yeah, working backwards is like far more just

(01:38:36):
interesting and feels worthwhile, like if you are
coming home from work and putting these movies on.
Yeah, I think most people would get more out of watching
contemporary films you enjoy andtracing the influence backwards.
I did this at like 18 or 19 years old because I was obsessed
with The Social Network. So I listened to all the David
Fincher interviews, I listened to the directors commentary.

(01:38:56):
I was just obsessed with this movie that I thought was so
smart in terms of what it was being prophetic about, about
kind of like the oncoming fall of how human beings connect with
one another. This oncoming seemingly being
connected to the the world, but being sort of disconnected to
everyone at the same time. And Jesse Eisenberg's
performance and just it's just amasterpiece.

(01:39:17):
And throughout the director's commentary, I think, or maybe it
was interviews, I was listening to a Fincher, he kept name
dropping Alan J Pakula, who I just was not familiar with.
So I dove into Pakula and same with Paul Thomas Anderson's
Boogie Nights Out. That was directors commentary I
listened to a lot when I was younger and he was always
shouting out Jonathan Demme, Robert Altman, Martin Scorsese

(01:39:40):
or I guess more recent movies like Portrait of the Lady on
Fire, Celine Siamo. When we did that episode on
Patreon, in her interview, she was like worshipping Chantelle
Ackerman or Agnes Farda. And that led me into watching
some of their movies. And Luca Guadagnino points back
to Rossellini and Bertolucci andWes Anderson is very like
transparent about just ripping Truffaut or Goddard, right?

(01:40:02):
Like so there's a lot of directors who are like modern or
contemporary film makers who arelike, go watch these people too,
which is very helpful. So it's all a lineage.
Yeah. And also then it's like you're
interested in watching, Yeah, like influences of a movie that
you already love. And that's a, a good place to
start. I agree.
I guess my advice, I didn't comeprepared for this question

(01:40:25):
obviously, and I have nothing toadd practically.
But if you can as just like a a bigger strategy in life, get a
partner who will make you letterbox list for your favorite
movies of influences. He might make you start a
podcast. Letterbox, dating app Letterbox,

(01:40:48):
they should do. They should look into that.
If you want a concrete starting point, I'd actually go with like
some of the biggest modern blockbusters and then work
backwards. So to be specific, when prepping
for this question, I wrote down The Dark Knight.
That's all I wrote down because I was like, that's where I'd
start. Interesting, I know.
Is that like the touchstone of our generation?
I think it's the most important blockbuster of the 21st century,

(01:41:10):
not the best blockbuster of the 21st century, but I think it is
the most important because it is.
It's very telling of what's to come in cinema, which is like
giving auteurs the reins to the superhero mold that has consumed
the comedy genre that's consumedthe action genre that's consumed
spectacles in the summer for thenext 15 years after 2008.

(01:41:30):
And I would watch that movie seriously.
And I would look into the research of what Christopher
Nolan's inspirations were seriously, because obviously you
can watch The Dark Knight is thecynical superhero project
because the yes, on paper it is a superhero movie, but it's
really Christopher Nolan sneaking in a Michael Mann crime
film into a movie that happens to have a guy wearing a bat

(01:41:51):
suit. You know, it's not really about
Bruce Wayne. It's more about the Joker, if
anything. And I would say that that movie
is trying to be a heist film formost of the most of the time,
most of the runtime. And if you follow that thread of
auteurs Co opting superhero movies to make genre films and
suddenly you're watching Nolans influences which are Michael
Man's Heat and Michael Man's Thief.
And then you're going into more crime territory with Sidney

(01:42:13):
Lumet and Dog Day Afternoon and Serpico.
And then from there, you might go to Alexander Mckendrick's
Sweet Smell of Success. And so you have like a whole,
again, like a lineage of movies that are emerging out of genre.
So I'd start with genre and I'd start with something modern or
present or more recent. And that's not even including
like Scorsese and Howard Hawks. Like there's so many directors
or film makers to turn to for specific genres.

(01:42:33):
And that's a very masculine genre, but there's so many
different examples. But to me, that's what I would
do with the syllabus. I would start with what you like
right now, trace it backwards and you'll see not just like the
history of cinema, but the kind of like economic patterns that
also shape it, which is like a whole education in itself.
And that's something that we're constantly doing on Patreon with
our. Yeah, I guess we also have it

(01:42:54):
for our new listeners. We have a number one boy series
where we cover basically what Trey's talking about.
Like we have our two living plusepisodes, shout out succession
heads that are our main like features.
But then we'll do a shorter, like 45 minute episode on an
influence. And that's a really helpful.
I also think like not not only have listeners reached out to be

(01:43:17):
like this is awesome because it is actually kind of like the
book club we were talking about,but even more niche and watching
having like a reason, right to watch these and then listen to a
conversation and engage in like our Patreon community, like
leave comments about what you think and everything like that.
But also, like we've had people reach out throughout the years
because we tend to rewatch, you know, filmographies of a

(01:43:40):
filmmaker before their new movies released.
And like, that's also something that it has been like really
interesting because you see whattheir patterns are.
And that's like helpful when yougo back to watch their
influences, even more so becauseyou see it show up in a bunch of
their their different movies at different stages of their lives.
Yeah, we're doing it right now at Paul Thomas Anderson as we're
prepping for one battle after another and just re watching his

(01:44:01):
whole filmography. I looked back at Letterbox and
we did the same thing for Licorice Pizza.
And yeah, it's honestly deeply educational.
Like you're you're learning a lot about the filmmaking
process, but also about directors that you love or
character actors that you love. OK, next question.
What's one thing you wish audiences were better at when
watching movies? Or a suggestion for how to get
more out of the experience of watching a movie.

(01:44:25):
I guess we, you know, actually talked about this earlier in the
pod around more so like the podcast space, because I feel
like this question to me is lesswhat I wish people were like
better about in movie going because that the the kind of
like content that is reaction that is like the large, you
know, positive or negative reaction to a movie is also

(01:44:48):
based on like the movie industrybeing this commercial space and
the reviews being content. And then that driving people to
like not want to actually have an interesting conversation
about what the movie means or how it is a hit or miss, like
politically, or if it's a hit ormiss in terms of what a
filmmaker is trying to do. And I think like, sometimes

(01:45:10):
we'll have conversations about how a filmmaker is really good
at like, capturing this visual goal, right, that they have in
mind. And like, they have such an
amazing, like, film language. But like politically, does it
land everything that they're trying to do or does it do some
things that they didn't mean to do that are actually do have an

(01:45:32):
impact? And so like, I think my bigger
critique is more so a bigger problem than like what I
personally wish, you know, people would would do when
they're approaching movies, which is to think about like
what what is like the impact of of this movie, right?
And what conversations can it start?

(01:45:52):
I guess that's more so like for the the podcast space, like this
question for me, like what do I wish people were more maybe open
to is are those conversations like are actually like thinking
about a movie in interesting ways and not just being like
Nolan's Oppenheimer is a five star movie and like you don't

(01:46:15):
tell me any different. And like, if you have a
political critique of it, it's just a movie.
Like those are not only annoying, obviously, like as
podcasters like trying to have ajust a conversation, but they're
like incredibly boring. Yeah, well, I don't want to make
this like a deeper. The rise of anti intellectualism

(01:46:36):
in America can be seen in like. That's what I was saying.
That's like this question is like bigger than.
Yeah, but like, for example, I think letterbox blurbs from
regular viewers or people with alot of followers in letterbox
are really funny. Like when you look at like the
top rated letterbox reviews, I'msure like Oppenheimer goes boom
has like 10,000 likes or something like that, like
something stupid, right? And some of them are really

(01:46:58):
funny. Like that's not a funny one.
I just made that up. But like, you know what I mean?
And. Yeah.
But sometimes it's all people doon Letterbox.
And I think it's because of likethe fear, the cringe of critical
thinking because we are like in an anti intellectual era over
the past 10 years, I think because of what our country's

(01:47:19):
going through politically right now.
And so I don't want to attributeall that to like movie
criticism, what's happening. But you can certainly see a
shift in what's going on in likecritical spaces and being afraid
to talk about movies thoughtfully, vulnerably,
intelligently, and people ratherchoosing to see them cynically
as just like escapist entertainment because it's
easier to because then you don'thave to reflect on it.

(01:47:41):
So I think when trying to answerthis question, I thought about
it in three phases and it's justhow my brain works.
I'm sorry, this sounds so like organized, but I think about it
in pre movie, in movie and post movie pre movie.
What I recommend to get a betterexperience and going to watch
movies is to try to go in as blind as possible.

(01:48:02):
Like try to stay away from 2 minute trailers, watch 32nd
snippets, you know, on TV commercials on YouTube or
something. Stay away from the marketing as
much as possible. And I know sometimes marketing
can just like come your way through sponsored ads and just
keep scrolling. Yeah, be like us and look down
during like close your eyes during the the trailers, Yeah.
Or, you know, hopefully the marketing is really good and

(01:48:23):
doesn't tell you the whole storylike.
The PTA movie, but that's like less and less.
That movie is about, but it is less and less and so just pick
what looks interesting and show up.
That would be my pre movie advice.
In movie, it's a little bit morecomplicated.
What I would recommend would be you, you're going to have a
better time enjoying a movie just out of entertainment value
and out of it's like themes by not trying to solve the film as

(01:48:46):
you're watching it. And I think there is a little
bit of a push to do that too. That's a little bit of like the
YouTube explained era that we'recurrently still in.
Just let the movie hit you. Sync it to the sounds, sync it
to the visuals, editing, acting.Don't be too quick to get mad at
characters making a choice that you would not make, which is
something that I see a lot of people run to.
Like they see Joaquin Phoenix's sheriff character make a wild

(01:49:07):
decision in Eddington. They go, why the hell would he
do that? I wouldn't do that.
That's a that's not. I don't think that's the way to
go about watching a movie. Sometimes the best film makers
show us like neither protagonistor antagonist.
They just show us messy, flawed people.
And sometimes those characters are like tools for a bigger
commentary. And it's OK to accept that
characters are messy and make decisions that you wouldn't.

(01:49:29):
So try to pause the like judgement of what a character is
doing. However, and this is a big
however, because sometimes critics will take what I I just
said and run with it too much. And so will regular audiences.
If a character makes a choice that doesn't line up with how
the character has been written up until that point, like mid
movie, it's totally fair to critique the movie as you're

(01:49:49):
watching it. It's just like poorly written.
Like, I think that's that's a perfectly fine critique.
In fact, I think criticizing screenplays doesn't happen
enough in criticism. I think there's too much
critiques of like a visual language or color palette of a
movie. Like when Superman came out in
the trailer and everybody was talking about the the color of
the movie rather than what the story was going to be about and
how kind of soulless it feels like going back at Superman with

(01:50:15):
a similar mold identity of a person Superman, what he
represents and what how you could have iterated on Superman
in a really interesting way instead of.
And I like the Superman movie fine, but they could have gone
in a different direction with that screenplay.
Anyways, you can go back and listen to that episode.
You probably get my point. It's just a tricky line.
I think it's totally fair to critique something as bad
writing, but in movie, just try not to solve it.

(01:50:38):
Don't overly judge decisions. And then I'd say maybe, and I
and I struggle with this as we are vulnerable and have a movie
podcast and talk openly about films that we dislike or love or
feel in the middle about. Don't let your own baggage
prevent you from engaging with the material.
And if a movie provokes you and it provokes you in uncomfortable
ways, that might mean it's doingits job.

(01:51:00):
It doesn't mean it's good. It doesn't mean it's like
successful. It doesn't mean it's a
masterpiece because it's just like this piece of provocation,
but it's effective in as far as like nailing a director or
writers intention, especially that film maker is more
provocateur than a successful writer like a Darren Aronofsky,
for example. So what I would basically I'm

(01:51:20):
trying to say is be wary of somepeople telling you, oh, you
don't like Eddington. Well, Eddington wanted to piss
you off. And so if you don't like it
because it made you mad, then that was the whole point and you
didn't get it. Don't like, be wary, be
skeptical. I think of those people because
there is a point to be made there, but that it seems to be a
reaction to a lot of movies thatare divisive, that are about

(01:51:41):
like contemporary issues. Yeah, I, I personally tend to
have this like kind of conversation on the podcast all
the time where there is like, like your first point makes
sense. But like that that second point
of a lot of critics being like, well, like you don't have to
agree with the character. There's like a fine line between

(01:52:01):
that. Because there's one thing of
like, yeah, let me like actuallytalk about how this film maker
was getting at something that was a little bit more like messy
and trying to to make a point. But then there is like, either
the the idea of like, I don't know, like a Paul Schrader movie
being like, you're not supposed to like the character.
Yeah. Well, I didn't like the
character and I didn't like the movie, and I think it's

(01:52:24):
incredibly boring. Your hate for Paul?
The second thing? Is just so funny that that
specific guy I. Hate all his movies so much.
If I have any man who tells me they like Paul Schrader movies.
And if you're a listener, don't take it too personally, but
maybe reflect a little bit the second.
Thing they like Paul Schrader, they're going to take it
personally. He takes a lot of things

(01:52:45):
personally. Say some things I like.
There there's a second also likekind of like version of that
though, where there's like a self congratulatory thing of
like, well, Oppenheimer did address X with like the one
scene of the senator saying thatdon't bomb this particular place
because I vacation there. And like, you know what I mean?
Like that kind of thing of like the because they checked this

(01:53:06):
box that like they don't actually have to explore
something that's more nuanced inthe movie.
So yeah, I feel like there's a lot of like things to to address
in and the larger conversations,but I like the idea of assuming
what you're getting to like withthe post movie is like, 'cause
you're just talking about letterbox reviews, right?

(01:53:28):
Is like I would love to see people tell me their thoughts on
it on a letterbox review. And be willing to feel a little
bit embarrassed by writing threeparagraphs like it's OK, you
know, And some of our mutuals, some of our followers that we
follow back on the letterbox to spend, you can tell like a solid
like 30 minutes to an hour writing their letterbox review.
I feel seen because I also like to write.

(01:53:49):
I like to. That would be my point.
And also we enjoy reading your reviews.
For Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And am I?
What I was going to say for postmovie is write something.
It doesn't have to be an essay. You don't even have to publish
it, but write something. I think it's very helpful.
I know I found my teachers coming out, but like, just write
a note or you can do a letterboxblur.
But like, I think a few sentences about what, you know,
maybe ask yourself what worked in that movie for me, what stuck

(01:54:10):
with me, what didn't, what was supposed to or seemingly it
seemed like it was supposed to. And then to talk and talk to
someone who has seen it or read about people who had just seen
it, who are experts in this field, like film criticism or
jump into a podcast and jump into a pod combo about a
complicated movie that you felt like kind of in the middle on.
You know, Eddington, Weapons, Sinners were all movies to us

(01:54:32):
that had like pacing issues thisyear, storytelling issues that
were like real problems. And we talked about those movies
with nuance and it's easier to just like if you're if you want
to hear a nuanced conversations about that, then you also have
to like maybe inject yourself into that a little bit and be
feel a little bit vulnerable to be like, let me post like these
kind of messy thoughts on this site or just like write about it

(01:54:53):
just to make sense of your own thoughts at home.
But you know, I think a dialoguepost movie is really important.
Whether you're in the dialogue, you're just listening to it,
you're a part of it somehow by consuming it.
Like I think it's really important.
Yeah. So, yeah, pre movie in movie,
post movie, that would be my, that would be my advice.
There's three stages. It, it makes it sound like an

(01:55:14):
art form, but I guess like criticism, like great criticism
is like a truly like an art formto me.
Like when I, when I read, you know, Adam Neiman or Robert
Daniels or David Ehrlich, I'm like, holy shit, you know,
there's a voice here. There's a point of view.
I don't agree with it 75% of thetime, even from those great
critics, but there's a point of view.
And it feels like that's really lacking, you know, from
audiences too. Do you view movies more as

(01:55:40):
vehicles to influence society, or as attempts to reflect and
understand it? You have 30 seconds go.
Timer's on. I don't know, let me think about
it for a second. Do you have an answer?
Yeah, I mean, I guess the easiest.
I mean I have my answer, I'm just thinking about how to
phrase it in a non I guess like purely sociological way.

(01:56:03):
The the easy answer is both. I'd say that most film makers
who get a lot of praise critically and commercially say
that they're just reflecting society.
And I think for mostly good reasons.
Because if you're a director andyou admit that you are trying to
influence or provoke with your movies and you're using them as
like propaganda tools essentially, then you're

(01:56:25):
politically accountable in ways a lot of directors don't want to
be, right? Not just for financial reasons,
but also fears of not being hired again and fears of being
censored, which are very real. And they're becoming more and
more real, unfortunately, in ourcountry.
And I think people like Christopher Nolan, Denis Val
Nov, Ryan Coogler, Greta Gerwig,Bong Joon Ho, There are a lot of
great mainstream film makers with indie roots that feel like

(01:56:47):
they're making movies with a political responsibility.
And they really lean into that. But they also lean into their
movies as mirrors that can influence, but by sparking a
conversation, not necessarily bybeing overly transgressive.
And I think some critics and audience members can sometimes
frame the movies from those filmmakers as like, provocative

(01:57:09):
reflections instead of, like, political vehicles, which is
just safer that, you know, you'll hear some directors.
Kind of like an easy out. Absolutely.
And I think you'll hear some directors say things like, oh,
I'm not trying to say this aboutDonald Trump or I'm not trying
to say this about the RepublicanParty.
I'm just holding up a mirror to the audience.
There aren't any direct points I'm trying to make.
There aren't any direct questions I'm trying to ask the

(01:57:31):
audience. I'm just trying to reflect some
anxieties culturally that I've observed, which is, you know,
fine. But my point is, you know,
whether some film makers admit admit to it or not, I do think
movies have a relative power to relatively influence.
And they are pieces of art that dozens, if not hundreds of
people work on who all have their own point of view, who are

(01:57:53):
trying to get like a single point of view or through line of
themes across in their movies. But also movies are movies,
They're commercial products. And some film makers or even
studios and therefore audiences sometimes want you to think
movies are escapist and apolitical.
But film has always been political and it's the most
commercial art form we have. And so therefore, like cinema is

(01:58:14):
this like today in the modern era in 2025 is paradoxically,
yes, a tool of empathy, but alsobasically commercial propaganda.
And so yeah, exactly. That's that's the hard part.
You know, I love this question. It's like it is both.
But like we, you know, we've we've brought this up on Patreon
recently, but someone commented on our Eddington episode.

(01:58:34):
It was like, hey, listen to the power for the first time.
I'm a new listener. You guys don't seem to really
review movies. You kind of treat them as
propaganda. And they met it.
They meant that comment like, asa diss, which, you know,
whatever. Fair enough.
Honestly, I took it as a compliment.
Yeah, because that's what we tried to do.
We talked about movies as art, as a text, but also is, like,

(01:58:56):
ideological products. And we keep both of those lanes
in mind. Exactly.
Yeah, I think I, I like cosign what you're saying about, you
know, different directors being able to kind of like sidestep
their political impact with a movie while still wanting to
explore something political. And then just being able to

(01:59:17):
like, kind of put their hands upand say, this is just like an
observation. Not really even having to like,
engage in the conversation. Not that I think, you know, that
our film makers need to be like our intellectuals either.
Like I don't personally, I thinkthat like I need to hear all of
Christopher Nolan's thoughts about like the state of the

(01:59:40):
world. Like, I don't think that's what
I'm arguing for either. But because of that reaction and
the kind of like, again, the press cycle of interviews and
selling a movie and and having movies be such a commercial
product, then that encourages people to also treat movies in
that way. And like you said, like as
escapist forms of of media and so, you know, obviously like you

(02:00:00):
can like approach this from like, you know, obviously
theoretical kind of lanes of like, OK, well, movies are just
like reproducing like upper middle classic interests and
like the middle classic intellectualizes them, but.
You know, there we have a movie podcast.
Like I do think that movies, while, you know, I I probably

(02:00:25):
learn more towards like what you're saying, Trey.
And in terms of something more cynical, I guess people could
think of like movies ultimately like not having being a
commercial art form, but becausethey are so widely seen, because
like this is, you know, we've talked about this before on the
podcast as educators, like unfortunately with like the

(02:00:45):
state of our education too, thatmovies are like a touch point
for a lot of different people like, and, and so that that does
matter, especially because a lotof people are like seeing and
talking about a particular idea,right?
Often times when they're when they're talking about a movie.
And movies do have the opportunity at least to like

(02:01:08):
critique institutions or different forms of power or like
give people a kind of insight into how that functions, right?
But obviously, like, I think that most movies that that kind
of like are in this space are reproducing like power and not

(02:01:29):
necessarily challenging it. But I think that it does matter
to talk about how it does challenge it.
And then also to like we always talk about like go see movies in
theaters, right? Where there's a movie that's
like an independent film that istalking about something
interesting or doing something interesting.
But yeah. Yeah.
And it's as simple as like, I think my personal politics on

(02:01:52):
this is like, hold people who make a lot of money responsible.
So like, if we're talking about like an indie filmmaker, like
I'm not going to have the same, I guess moralistic frustration,
I will with them and their politics and their movies versus
I'm trying to make money in their films versus, you know, I
will the next Dune film if DenisVal NAV and I'm like, you better

(02:02:13):
nail this like colonialist idea that you're trying to get across
or this could get real messy very fast.
You know, and I think that's oneof the reasons like we were so
challenged by Oppenheimer and Barbie, you know, that take that
moment. Take that moment for example,
like the Oppenheimer quote, UN quote moment to the event of
Oppenheimer and Barbie coming out making a billion dollars.

(02:02:33):
The boys going to see Oppenheimer, the girls going to
see Barbie. All of the marketing that went
into like making people to go out to theaters that summer in
the post pandemic world or the end of it.
You know, those two are the mostdiscussed movies of the 2020 so
far and they came out the same weekend.
Both incredibly hyped for their cinematic choices that were I
think, really successful. You know, 1 was like this like

(02:02:54):
spectacle post like kind of war film, but also post war film
turned court, you know, case movie.
And the other was like this dream ballet satire on corporate
feminism, which was really interesting.
But they also were loved for thevery reasons I'm talking about,
like for having a lot of political clout.

(02:03:15):
They were those movies were loved for being quote, UN quote
smart and both movies to us, even though we really thought
they were cinematically successful and they were like
all caps or toward decisions being made in them and kind of
have like memorable sequences that I won't forget in the 20
twenties. Both of those movies dodged a
lot of nuances that would have made them more transgressive or

(02:03:36):
risky and more complex. And I think they're both.
They both needed to be more discussed at that time and today
as being opportunistic. And they weren't really
discussed in that way. And they were being discussed as
being influential, which I just find to be kind of maybe telling
of the power of movies, unfortunately.

(02:03:56):
And going back to your point of the ways in which we've been
sort of propagated to believe that like, you know,
millionaires are the intellectuals, you know, in the
United States because they have all the power or, you know,
billionaires, obviously. And they are reinforcing or
challenging, reinforcing like dominant, comfortable narratives
while quote UN quote provoking the audience, which is just it's
it's frustrating, but it is sortof the reality.

(02:04:18):
So you to me what the way I go about this is I hold a high
standard to like the commercial,you know, aspects of movie
making. So when I go see Eddington, I
see materialists or I see sinners and those movies cost
10s of millions of dollars. I come in with like a little bit
more of an expectation thematically I do and I and they
don't hit those standards for me.
Like I have taste and I have a point of view.

(02:04:40):
It frustrates me and I do want movies to be like more pushing
change and being able to actually like mainstream movies,
you know, and not just being entertaining propaganda and not
just trying to get like more corporate greed and shareholder
value and not romanticize a verylucrative industry.
I do want these movies to actually provoke in healthy

(02:05:01):
ways. So next question.
This queue is we got a lot of film nerd deep cuts here, but
this queue is a great queue. It's a little bit long so I'm
going to try to summarize it to the best of my ability.
About Zach Krieger's weapons, itbasically asks at the end of
Weapons, the child narrator sayssome kids started talking again

(02:05:23):
over time and Alex's parents were sent to treatment and Alex
is living with another family. But Josh Brolin's character was
instantly freed with no long term damage from the Aunt Gladys
connection once once she died. Why do you think that is?
Why is it that some people are on the spectrum of who Aunt

(02:05:44):
Gladys, you know, mind captured?Why did some people escape it?
Why did some why were some stillinfected by it, if that makes
sense? I I personally think that one of
the through lines of weapons that is the most thematically
coherent ideas is that American culture has been completely

(02:06:07):
taken over by self-interest and maybe always how it has been
right. And Craiger is just exploring
that very basic idea that is canbe, you know, more complex if
taken seriously. And I think that clicked with me
when I kept seeing imagery of parasites scattered throughout
the film. I believe in like the.
Classroom. On the TV and to me, the the

(02:06:29):
reason why this conversation about weapons is getting so
tripped up is that big AR in thesky above Josh Brolin's house
and his nightmare. And when we read the screenplay,
it also tripped us up. We're like, whoa, you know, what
does this mean? What does this symbolize?
And we, I think as an audience map on and project a lot onto
that for, you know, rightful reasons because of our history
as a country over the past 25 years and violence.

(02:06:51):
But to me, the movie is about how grief and trauma are
weaponized. And that's what they are
supposed to represent. And they are hanging above
Berlin's home is a nod to that idea where self-interest and
self preservation have become parasitic.
And Gladys as a witch is this fairy tale figure, but
metaphorically, she functions like a a virus and she's

(02:07:11):
affecting adults and infecting kids alike, with the children
being the most susceptible to her indoctrination, which is why
it's so powerful that they free themselves at the end.
Powerful of of an idea. Whether you think it's smart or
not, up to you. But I think it's interesting and
it makes it comical at the end too, because it's like, I think
it's. One of the best scenes in the
movies, yeah. It's cathartic.
It's like kids getting back at like exploited of old adults who

(02:07:33):
are like ruining the country. Like, that's an interesting
idea. And Brolin at the end of the
movie gets his child back and not because of some noble act
that he committed, but basicallybecause the children save
themselves, which again, is partof that larger commentary of a
younger generation being forced to take care of themselves and
the elders trying to take care, like take advantage of them and
the tragic irony of that. And so Brolin quickly recovers

(02:07:57):
to me because his grief is resolved.
His child is back to him. Meanwhile, Alex and James the
the non child, the the houselessperson who's played by Austin
Abrams, who feels like he was a child left behind, right,
because he had a has a child look to him.
And he's kind of like has a child demeanor to him and the

(02:08:18):
way he's like acting and like walking about the place and he's
like in the way he's stealing things to sell.
Them I got tripped up when you said non child, but I know you
mean yeah, he's older. He's he's like a. 25 year old
grown man, but he is childlike qualities and they're framing
him as childlike and almost likea little bit stunted because of
his like experience obviously. And so, so many children
basically never recover from being taken over by Aunt Gladys.

(02:08:41):
And I think they also don't totally recover.
So to me, basically Gladys is like a disease infecting and
this town and weaponizing traumaand grief.
And the town itself becomes likea microcosm of like American
self-interest. That's how I took the the movie
at the end. I don't know how you felt about
that question. It was why?

(02:09:01):
Why some of the children could speak and others could not.
Yeah, that's how I took it, thatsome some trauma and grief was
not resolved. Some trauma was not resolved.
And so those kids who cannot speak or the adults who could
not speak anymore, like had never had their kind of
cathartic moment. And so some of that grief is
like is left infecting this town.

(02:09:23):
That's how I took it at least. And so like Aunt Gladys coming
in and weaponizing people's trauma or grief is kind of the
point of that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess that
that makes sense. I, I didn't think there was any
like larger theme besides, yeah,them just going through
something traumatic. Yeah, that's my answer.

(02:09:44):
And I I. Mean I guess I could be over
reading. It I feel like we're at two
hours now. I'd like to to move it along.
Sure. Well, this is a good question.
I think it's a good answer. It's a good question.
I just don't have. I just don't have an answer, OK?
OK, we have like 4 or five questions left.
These are really fun questions. So I think we should do like a
speed round. OK, yeah, if you could green

(02:10:06):
light one, remake or reboot right now, what would it be and
who would you hire to direct? Well, I mean, I think Dog Day
afternoon is something that I'vebeen thinking about.
I had that too. Really.
Yeah, I, I guess because we justdid it on Patreon.
But I, you know, I, I, we were talking about like all the heist
movies that we love, and that's obviously one of them.
And I would like to see someone have like a, a modern kind of

(02:10:28):
like view of that movie. So we had Spike Lee's inside,
man, that was kind of like the modern version of it.
Then we had Nick Cassavetes, John Q, which to me, you know, 2
Denzel movies. Denzel must be a big fan of Dog
Day. Basically our iterations on Dog
Day afternoon, which I love. John Q shot on my John Q heads.
We see you. I will not bury my son.
My son will bury me. Yeah, I see you.
OK. Jordan Peele.

(02:10:50):
I want to see X-Men. I want to see it.
I I know we're done with superheroes, but this would
bring me back. In it would me too.
Yeah, Jordan Peele meets Clue. I want to see Clue remade.
Clue is one of my favorite. You did such a good job with
that. Studio comedies from 1985, I
believe it's 85, the Jonathan Lynn film, and I think Jordan

(02:11:13):
Peele would kill that in modernizing it.
Sean Baker was my pick for Dog Day Afternoon.
I think he deserves like anotherfifteen, $20 million medium
budget movie like Anora. And it'll be cool if you went
into like, a genre like heist films or crime films.
Yeah. And then I have Celine Siama to
replace Luca Guadagnino on American Psycho.

(02:11:33):
Luca's like one of my favorite directors with that.
Yeah, I think. I mean, I think.
Si siama do genre. Yeah, I think that she is really
good at holding a different typeof tension.
And I think she I wouldn't say make it would make a more
interesting movie, but would make something that would be

(02:11:56):
different than like other thingsshe's explored, you know, at
where Luca, it feels like it might be a continuation of like
a bigger Splash, which I love, but it would be something like
holy new. Well, Celine Siamo is like an
angry filmmaker, and I mean thatin like a awesome way.
I don't mean that in a mean way.And I like the way she directs
when she directs, especially woman in her films where we're

(02:12:16):
like, piss the fuck off. And I think it would be really
interesting to see a woman in a in the role of the American
Psycho character to modernize it.
I know it seems like backwards because supposed to be like
masculinity, but I think it could be an interesting shift
versus Luca, who's like one of the great film makers of desire.
So it's a little bit different. OK, those are my picks.
Next question What was the firstmovie you saw in theaters that
blew your mind? I mean, it really goes back to

(02:12:40):
like when you had just immediately answered that
question, like really small things like Rugrats.
I have Rugrats here too. Yeah, the scratch and sniff.
Meeting the Wild Thornberry, that's what I have on here.
Yes, it's like my most memorablefirst movie going experience.
I I genuinely remember like sitting there with the scratch

(02:13:02):
and sniff sticker just like paper and being like this is
like the future. It probably this is took two
years off our life from sniffingthose things.
We had so many scratch and sniffproducts that I am sure we
should have not been inhaling like so many markers and shit
like that. It was such a huge thing when we

(02:13:22):
were growing up. But yeah, that's like where my
my mind goes to is is childhood for my first, first ones.
Nolan movies. Inception.
Yeah, Dark Knight was a huge, like one of the first IMAX
experiences, obviously, like allthe Harry Potter's.
My mom drove us to like see eachHarry Potter in an IMAX.

(02:13:43):
Yeah, I have Sorcerer's Stone here.
Seeing the Hogwarts realized on screen for the first time, it's
just like an insane memory. Seeing that there was a face on
the back of what's his name at the end of Sorcerer's Stone will
that blew my mind as a 7 year old or whatever how old or old I
was. Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin
being frightening and screaming like a woman in a burning house

(02:14:04):
and then turning around. It's Green Goblin's surprising
spider man. Gotcha.
That was an image I remember from 2002.
I will say I was one of the likepeople who watched Inception.
I think I must have been in highschool, but I was like, whoa,
I've never seen anything like that.
That was like the prestige for me where I was like I told my
friends, I'm like, you got to watch the prestige.
Like 2 magicians. What like the end of prestige?

(02:14:25):
I don't know what happened. The magicians are Christian Bale
and Hugh Jackman. And then a lot of other
Christian bales. It's pretty wild.
Or wait, a lot of other Hugh Jackman's.
Wait, yes, I mixed that up. My #1 for this was Pokémon 2000.
Hell yeah. Watching Ash catch him get
bodied in Pikachu trying to revive him just absolutely
wrecked me. What was the one with all the

(02:14:46):
little pikas? That was like Avhs movie.
I saw it in theaters. Oh.
I saw it in like a independent like local theatre.
I was thinking about the one where Pikachu Ash is trying to
decide whether or not to evolve Pikachu into Raichu and it's
like a really emotional 60 minute movie.
You can't remember. Yeah, I don't know that one
though. If you could re experience one
film for the first time, what would it be?

(02:15:09):
I don't know. The easy answer for me are like
my favorite movies like Alien. That would be dope to see that
for the first time opening night.
I saw it in an Alamo Drafthouse 2 years ago for the first time
on a big screen. It was an emotional experience,
especially because I thought fora second I was like, wait, by
the time our kids are my age or our age, maybe theaters won't
exist. So that was kind of scary to
think about. Or at least mass like wide, you

(02:15:30):
know, access theaters. I would probably say like most
of the great horror movies. Yeah, it would be so cool to see
Halloween opening night. The thing?
Or just like throw thrillers also?
Science and the lambs get out. Well, I guess we did.
Yeah. Get out.
The answer I put here was The Matrix.
That is a movie that we were just too young to have seen.

(02:15:52):
We were like 5 years old or whatever.
And that's like a Jurassic Park moment, you know, that was so
cool and speed because I, I really want to see Keanu Reeves
and. Sandra Bullock's.
Sexual chemistry on a big screen, Yeah, it's amazing.
La La Land was another one I putdown here.
If I could redo one because La La Land is one of our favorite
opening night movies that we saw.
Yeah, Yeah, I feel like a lot ofthese have also like specific

(02:16:18):
location, right, nostalgia. And then like La La Land is one
that we saw at when we were in undergrad and or were we?
No, wait. I only got my undergrad.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. Shout at the Theatre at Virginia
Tech. We should just shout it out.
Because I don't know the lyric is around anymore.
The Lyric might not exist anymore.
That'd be really sad. Anybody who is going to Virginia

(02:16:41):
Tech or in Blacksburg, there's asmall theatre, independent
theatre train there, the Lyric, and there was like 4 people in
the audience with us singing an opening night.
But yeah, we used to go there all the time.
Yeah. And just like, walk home.
It was great. What's your go to comfort movie
or TV after a week of disappointing screenings, which
we do have, We have disappointedmovie watches and then we're
like what do we watch? Or we're sick.

(02:17:02):
Or we're. Yeah, exactly.
I would say like, it's mostly when we're sick.
We'll take a week off of movies.If you see, you know our
letterbox isn't like Trey's not populating it like every day
like he normally does. Usually we do, but we take a
week off. Yeah, but in these like rare
times we and especially I guess at the beginning of the semester
because it's been like crazy andyou've gotten sick.

(02:17:22):
But we have recently started Stranger Things again because
it's also going to come out in November and we might be doing
something with that because season 1 is like an all timer.
I was nervous. I was nervous to return to it
and a great fall. I think also series to watch.
There was 1 moment where I thinkthis is where Trey was actually
really sick and he had said something about The OC and this

(02:17:47):
was something that like was a show that I watched growing up,
right? And I was.
Like Smallville for me, like. Yeah, basically, I mean, Gilmore
Girls was maybe more my Smallville, but I was like, we
have let's just like watch the first episode because he knew
nothing about it, had like no cultural like connection to it.
Because I I also wanted to see like, how did this influence me

(02:18:07):
growing up? And it was a very interesting
experience. I think we watched most if not
all of Season 1. We got through Season 1.
We did, yeah, but I think that'slike where our journey ends.
Love Adam Brody. It was very enjoyable.
Yeah. Seth is like an all time
character. Shout out Rachel Bilson Balson's
Summer. Yeah, great character who I
didn't realize had was married previously to Hayden

(02:18:32):
Christensen. Anakin Skywalker.
Yeah, pretty wild. Had a kid.
Whoa. Yeah, so we've been watching a
lot of Stranger Things lately, Peak television, a lot of
things. And I also learned that Adam
Brody is married to Blair Blair Waldorf.
Pretty wild. Yeah, yeah.
The the cable television CW era of TV shows and all the stars
hooking up. They're getting married.
The when we do movies, when we're feeling like we need

(02:18:54):
comfort movies, we turn to franchises.
So Harry Potter, Planet of the Apes, Hunger Games, Star Wars or
ROM coms. ROM com is a special genre for
us. That's I can watch that at any
time about time when I'm happy. Yeah, I would say we like
actually our most underwatch genre is comedy.
Underwatched. Like underwatched but not in a
bad way. Just like we we don't really

(02:19:15):
throw on comedies even if we arefeeling sick.
Or manchild comedies in particular.
Yeah, I think we still watch some comedies, but yeah,
they're, I guess that's not they're usually multi genre
films that happen to also be comedic.
Some other TV we've been to see or the pit.
The Bear Season 4 was great. If it's amazing, season 2 drops
in January. Excited for the Bear to be back
to its old stomping ground of being good again.

(02:19:37):
Because season 3 was pretty awful over the years.
Ozark sex education Abbott Elementary succession obviously
and and OR last year were huge. God I miss our succession
episodes. I know those were a lot of fun.
Last question, if movie characters could host a podcast,
who would you subscribe to immediately?
That's such a good question. Oh my God.

(02:19:58):
And people in the comments, let us know what your answer to this
is or I really any of the questions that that we talked
about today, but this one in particular, do you have an
answer? This is I have a few answers
here. The one that's like a non
answer, but sort of an answer isLuca Guadagnino.
I think Luca Guadagnino just hosting a podcast.
He's not a movie character obviously, but as a filmmaker
just hosting a podcast where he trashes on movies he hates.

(02:20:21):
I would love that. Like I don't want him to do a
podcast where he like talks about why he loves a movie.
I want to hear why he hates it. Does that make sense?
I know it's kind of toxic, but he's a he's a he's a spicy,
toxic film maker. Sometimes if we stick to
characters. I have a couple for you.
OK, I prep this. The two young woman from book
smart. Oh.
Hosting. It for sure MPR the amazing

(02:20:43):
Hassan Piker podcast. Rachel vice her librarian
character in the mummy doing a history podcast.
OK up my lane I can see it. I must say JK Simmons is
whiplash character running a JoeRogan style nightmare podcast
where he just like drinks and talks to people and like dog

(02:21:03):
whistles. Other pics?
Dirk Diggler and Reed Rothschildfrom Boogie Nights.
I think for me, like my immediate thought with this
question because we've been rewatching all of PTA is like
any PTA character really. I mean, particularly I forgot
their character's name, but DirkDiggler and then Reed.
Yeah, like John C Reilly, Mark Mahlberg's characters.

(02:21:26):
I would. I don't think it's the same as
like a bar stool kind of situation.
I think it's like a little different.
Yeah, I think so. But I really do think any PTA
character would be interesting to listen to.
Philip Seymour Hoffman from The Master just trying to convince
you to join his cult, Buzz and Woody.
I'm a doctor. From Toy Story.

(02:21:46):
What does he say? I'm a surgeon.
I'm a, he says. I am a theoretical philosopher.
I think I'm a nuclear physicist.And above all, I am a man.
And for us, for me, I'm a man with a podcast.
So I can be all those things with him if we hosted a show
together. Buzz and Woody from Toy Story

(02:22:08):
interviewing Pixar characters. I want a little fantasy here.
That sounds so. Good like AI made that.
I swear to God I did not go to. AI Buzz and Woody would be such
great. Like you know, the the
friendship yet like antagonist vibes between them is a
beautiful thing. They like have history, you
know? It would be awesome.
I also added the fact that they could add a third chair and I

(02:22:29):
added the third chair as being Mr. Potato Head.
They could be hit like their dreams, the version of James
just having a a third chair on the three boys, the young men
from Superbad. I don't know what that podcast
would be like, but I want to hear it.
I definitely want to hear it. Yeah, I I also want to hear
Michael Cera actually have a podcast.
Yes, Rachel Senet's Shiva baby. Character Oh sure yeah I feel

(02:22:53):
like her and Molly Gordon's character would be great I.
Was thinking she could team up with like, Caleb Heron.
OK, like an interesting. Yeah yeah.
What's the podcast with the woman from Barstool who made her
own show? You mean call her daddy?
Yes. Alex Cooper yes, I was thinking
something like Rachel Sennett's character from Ship of Baby
doing something like that and then I added as my final one,
which is something I would listen to everyday.

(02:23:14):
I owe debris from the bear. Basically just I owe debris but
like shit talking Carmi the whole time and making a video
cooking podcast. I've never heard of this, maybe
it exists. I would listen and watch a video
cooking podcast. I would listen to a podcast
about someone telling me what they're cooking, like 15 minute
dishes and a 15 minute episode as a just to wake me up in the

(02:23:35):
morning to pick me up. I would love that.
Listeners, let us know this is aphone line to put in the
comments. I'm going to like, this is like
something that I'm going to think about later and be so sad.
I didn't bring it up and I should have definitely prepped.
Sorry everyone, but I think likethe Ocean's 11 cast would be
really fun. It's, it's not that I need more

(02:23:57):
men like speaking on podcasts, to be honest with you.
And not that I would listen to it, but I would listen to an
episode. I do think that there would be
some like smartless energy in there who has like an Amy
Poehler vibe that I like 'cause I, I like, like hearing Michelle
Obama and Amy Poehler from time to time.
Like I, I would, I tune into like clips of their podcast far

(02:24:22):
more than I like tune into like just clicking a, a podcast from,
you know. Amy Poehler and Tina Fey
characters from a movie would beinteresting, like their
characters meeting from oppositeworlds.
Like Leslie Knope meeting Tina Fey's teacher and they do a
podcast from Mean Girls. I would do that.
OK, that was the Extra Credits Plus of our mailbag for 2025.

(02:24:47):
Thank you to all of our listeners who submitted
questions. I'm sorry if I forgot any or
left any off this podcast running a little bit long so I
might have skipped one or two byaccident.
We did get a lot of questions about YouTube, a lot of messages
about YouTube. The YouTube channel is still
alive. I swear.
We are on a video hiatus becauseit's like a mix of being a
little bit too busy right now with our main jobs being chaotic

(02:25:09):
at the beginning of the school years and the channel isn't
going anywhere. So we can always upload other
videos or, you know, individual reviews for me or reviews for
both me and Kels. Yeah, and honestly, like, you
know, it is sitting for a long time and for like me with my
back sometimes that's challenging.
So we pick our video podcasts like very purposely, but we'll

(02:25:32):
we'll start doing more in the future.
And last thing, I think we talked about the like,
unfortunately getting annoying reviews from after we do like
superhero episodes and stuff like that and also kind of our
take on why we are deciding to stay independent for listeners.
But if you do listen to the podcast, if you like anything

(02:25:54):
about the podcast, please leave us a five star review on Apple
and on Spotify. And if you can, it really does
matter and getting our show found to just leave, like even
if it's a short review, like love the Pod or an episode that
you really like or return to or whatever, or a conversation you
want to see us have, like please, please leave a review on

(02:26:17):
Apple. It helps the show so much.
Thank you to everybody who's left reviews recently as of
later. Really nice ones out there.
OK, we'll be back soon with PaulThomas Anderson's One Battle
After Another. Oh my God, can't wait.
I know.

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