January 18, 2025 • 24 mins
Kelsi and Trey explore the career of Barry Jenkins starting with a reaction to Mufasa: The Lion King. We then transition to the masterful career of Jenkins, whose groundbreaking work in Moonlight redefined modern queer cinema. From the intimate, poetic storytelling of Chiron’s life to Jenkins’ profound ability to capture the defense mechanism and prison of masculinity on screen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Music. Hello, welcome to the extra
credits of Damien Chazelle, La La Land.
Just kidding. Today we are going to be talking
about Barry Jenkins Moonlight, the movie that won Best Picture
in the 2017 Oscars. Both La La Land and Moonlight
extraordinary films, two of our favorites of the last decade.
(00:35):
We were so lucky to get those movies in the same year, 2016.
I know when they. Released.
That was a crazy good movie year.
Yeah, one of the best of the 20.10 was looking back at the list
of what came out in that year. I mean, it was just also like a
really special movie year for usas well because we, you know,
had like a great independent theatre near us and watched like
all of these amazing movies back-to-back.
(00:56):
Like, I think, you know, we saw 20th century women this year,
Manchester by the sea, Moonlight, La La land, Silence,
fences. Like I think this might be, you
know, long time listener. So I'm not a huge crier at the
movies, which is not a flex. So there may be something broken
about me, but this is the the year that I probably cried the
(01:17):
most in the movie theater. Yeah, and there were some big
surprises too. We had like Sing St.
Captain Fantastic. Those are some underrated films
from the whole decade. I think, yeah.
We were introduced to Tom Hollander.
Most of us were in Civil War. This.
Really. Yeah.
Wow. The.
MCU was killing it, Yeah, you know, and this is when Sony
still had Deadpool, because I think Deadpool released this
year as well. So lots of fun movies.
It's easier to. Think about a time that Marvel
(01:40):
was booming. I know.
I wish we were still in that time.
It would be, it would be nice. We don't need 4 Marvel movies a
year, but one good 1A year wouldbe kind of nice for US 2010's
Marvel fans. Yeah, there was a lot of great
movies this year. We got a Linklater film.
We had Don't Breathe for horror.We had Edge of 17 for coming of
age movies. We even had a good Star Wars
movie, Rogue One. And it's been quite a long time,
(02:01):
maybe since Rogue One that we'vehad a, a very good Star Wars
movie, Fantastic Beast, an X-Menfilm.
Like a lot of interesting moviesand I think Moonlight and Lala
Land are by far the best films of the year, so it ended up
being a really good Oscars. That was quite a moment, seeing
Damien and the whole team run upthere to win for Lala Land.
(02:22):
Yeah, it was kind of confusing to watch it live.
I remember because I genuinely felt bad for like the announcers
who had just made such a mistakelive.
And I remember Emma Stone being kind of pissed, yeah, not
because of losing, but at the announcers, which was kind of
awkward. Yeah, it was really awkward.
It was the only time I've seen her like outside of the kind of
(02:45):
like PR even though I like love her but.
Yeah, I remember the Moonlight team being just stunned and
Barry Jenkins in particular, like, looked, you know, at a
loss. And I understand why, Like, what
a a wild experience, but it's deserving.
I mean, Moonlight is a landmark film In the last decade of
cinema, it redefined and sparkedstudio interest in queer stories
(03:09):
that can be a little bit surreal.
They don't just have to be ground to dramas.
And this is a little bit of both.
And it's a film that introduced most moviegoers to Barry
Jenkins, who I think most movie fans today would agree that
Barry Jenkins is one of the mostunique visual storytellers of
his generation, one of the most emotionally impactful writers,
(03:30):
one of the more important peoplein this industry to show how you
can take indie capital to make large producing decisions or
large studio decisions as he's become like one of the most
important indie producers working.
Today and I feel like, you know,people who are plugged into to
the film space know, but I don'tthink maybe people at at large,
general audiences might know that he, you know, helped to get
(03:53):
after Sun made, which is like such a special movie to so many
people And and really was like helping Charlotte Wells just
kind of like navigate that process as a new film maker.
Yeah, he got all dirts, all dirtroads taste of salt last year
made which I saw very visually unique movie.
He got the fire inside made thisthis winter with Rachel Morrison
(04:17):
is the from from the DP from theRyan Coogler movies, who is now
a film maker in her own red as adirector who made that pretty
good movie. And yeah, he's got more movies
on on the way to. And obviously he's made If Beale
Street Could Talk since Moonlight, which is an excellent
film. He's just made Mufasa, The Lion
King, which we'll get into in a second.
He had ATV series for Amazon, The Underground Railroad, which
(04:40):
I've seen a few episodes of I didn't get to finish, but those
were very good and with some amazing performances.
So yeah, I mean, he's a really special film maker.
I think alongside his peers. I think he stands right up there
with Greta Gerwig as probably 2 directors who've made some real
special indie works that have now used their capital to make
(05:02):
bigger blockbuster movies. Of course, Greta got to make
like the blockbuster which is Barbie and Barry Jenkins got to
make this prequel sequel Lion King live action movie.
But regardless, it is still a huge deal.
Huge. Like, one of the biggest Disney
projects is like, you know, The Lion King.
Yeah, and I think it's like one of the biggest budgets ever
given to a black filmmaker, which is not a small note in the
(05:26):
history of cinema. It's a huge deal.
And the movie's been really successful thus far.
It hasn't done what The Lion King 2019 film did because I
think that was such a a massive moment, like remaking The Lion
King and live action. I gotta go see this.
And then we didn't. See it and then we didn't see
it. Still haven't seen it.
We saw Mufasa recently. But it's because like, I mean,
we, we love animation, but like the live action Disney movies in
(05:49):
particular, I don't know, I justcan't get on board.
I think just because we grew up in the like renaissance of the
Disney movies. Yeah, well, I don't know if I
want to call Mufasa like live action.
I guess let's talk about our relationship to to animation.
I'd like to talk about Barry Jenkins direction with this
Mufasa movie, what we liked, what we didn't like about it.
Maybe it's like a mini review here on the main feed before we
(06:11):
jump into Moonlight behind a paywall on Patreon.
You know, we've only covered a few animated movies on our feed,
and that's not because we don't love animation.
I think it's fair to say that, you know, we both love it.
We love hand drawn animation. We love digital animation from
Studio Ghibli to Pixar to Disney.
We're fans of different styles within this medium, as long as
(06:32):
those styles never get interfered with.
Generative AI, which hopefully the industry makes more
regulations over the next few decades because of that fear and
that danger. But you know, we, we have
covered animation movies before.I think we did the Toy Story
films. Yeah, I think mostly Pixar
stuff. Mostly Pixar stuff.
We did do Marcel the Shell and had Dean Fleischer Camp, the
director of that movie, come on last year, two years ago now,
(06:53):
and that was a great conversation we'd have with him.
That's one of our. Favorite and he's about to do
Lilo. And Stitch, yes, I was about to
say that because I think we might end up covering Lilo and
Stitch on the movie because thatmovie was so iconic.
For our generation. I haven't watched it since but.
Either I think it would be a funPatreon idea if we rewatch it
and like it. If we rewatch like this, isn't
it? I don't know, I feel like it
might be good on rewatch. I was so into like the aspect of
(07:17):
like outer space with Lilo and Stitch.
It was really cool. I was also really into the TV
series as a kid. I think that was a real thing.
I don't think I'm making that up.
I'm pretty. Sure, with the crew going to it
wasn't the two main leads, but. Wasn't there like a?
There's a bunch of aliens that were following.
I think so. I don't know, but I, I played
games. Yeah, I was.
(07:37):
There's a lot of like off, you know, branching off projects.
But go back to what you were saying.
It's not that we don't like liveaction movies, right?
Like I think we've grown up withthose in different moments.
I think the first most famous live action remake of a animated
film was actually Glenn Close's Corella Deville and 101
(07:58):
Dalmatians, which was a huge movie.
For people in the 90s, like, it's not that I'm like out on
them completely, it's just that I like them less.
Than like, I mean, I, you feel it like we watched Cinderella in
like 2015 or 2016. We're kind of you feel a little
bit cold after watching it afterthe animation brings such such a
vibrant liveliness to those. Movies like we rewatched The
(08:20):
Lion King the original 1 and theanimation was wild like.
It's also just a beautiful film.It's a great story.
It's incredible score. I mean, it's, I mean, it feels
weird to say about the original Lion King.
Yeah, it's pretty good. But we did, we did throw on The
Lion King before going to see Mufasa just to get a feel
because it's been so long, like literally since we were like
teenagers. We've seen that movie probably.
(08:41):
And we were just like singing along to the songs, like having
a good time. It was fun.
And so we got pretty, I think, stoked for Mufasa, and I wasn't
let down about Mufasa. And we'll get to that in just a
second. Yeah, we neither, I will say in
2019, when the original Lion King came out and made over a
billion dollars, I think it says$1.6 billion here.
(09:03):
And I think Mufasa will only make a third of that.
One of the reasons I didn't see it was because, well, it was
like the beginning of our teaching career.
So we were very tired, but also it looked so dull, like in
trailers. It just looks so uninteresting
to me. And when you look back at the
technology of that era, it was avery big deal.
It was something that people were like, we have to go and see
(09:24):
this not just because it's a remake, but it was an evolution
of technology where we saw this evolution of live action
filmmaking by using these entirely computer generated
visuals and sets. They used VR technology on that
film that got away from motion capture that had become famous
from like Andy Serkis work and Lord of the Rings and then later
in the Planet of the Apes movies.
(09:46):
So there aren't actually any live actors on sets in the 2019
film. And Mufasa continued this trend.
And these two movies are fascinating because they're just
sort of like digitally renderingthe most important Disney film
maybe of all time, which is the original Lion King that we love
so much and, you know. Maybe that's like why I also
(10:07):
was. It feels like a cash grab a
little bit, and you're like, I don't know if I want to go see
these. But when Barry Jenkins was
signed on to make this prequel sequel, I was like, I'm in
because there is one character where I've always wanted a
little bit of a back story with.And even though I hate this new
trend of trying to sympathize with the villains of classic
movies, I've always wanted to know a little bit more about
Scar. He's a fascinating character.
(10:27):
And when this movie was called Mufasa, I was like, oh, that's
an interesting way to like subvert the Mufasa hero journey.
I'm sure they're going to take us into Scars journey.
Of course, my expectations were let down.
If you've seen Mufasa, that's not at all what it's about.
Star gets a lot of screen time, but it's not what you think or
not what I thought at least. And I was trying to not judge
the movie from that expectation.But ultimately I was like pretty
(10:49):
happy with Mufasa. So I guess we can talk about it
now. No spoilers, but no like serious
spoilers. But I was surprised.
It was a brand new story. Yeah, I did just like you
though. I mean, I think of course, like
these movies are in a lot of ways like made and geared
towards like kids, right? And then also the like adults
(11:11):
who are watching this movie withtheir kids.
I think something like Cruella is a maybe a different example
where maybe that is like geared towards like audiences who maybe
like the original film and you know, our fans of Emma Stone,
like, you know, for example, butwith a kind of like live action
remake, especially like focusingon The Lion King and Mufasa in
(11:34):
particular. Like this was definitely like
geared towards children. And I thought like, even though,
even though that's the case, though, I, I do think you could
do something a little bit more interesting with Scar, which
isn't up to Barry Jenkins, you know?
Yeah, he didn't write this one. Right.
So, but that's but that's what kind of what I left the movie
with, even though I was like, oh, like that was that was fine.
(11:56):
There were a couple like songs that went on too long for me,
but other than that I was like, well, let's talk pretty much in.
Let's talk about the aesthetics and the style of the filmmaking
first before we get into the narrative pretty quickly, I want
to ask you, did this movie feel actually imaginative in terms of
the technology, or did it look like a screensaver to you?
(12:17):
Because I think I kept going back and forth.
It took me a second to. Say it the immersed different
moments it felt school and othermoments it didn't like.
For example, at the very beginning of the movie, I think
you were more in at first because there's a really
dramatic like tension with Mufasa and his his.
Parents, the very beginning. Of the movie for me, I like
(12:38):
couldn't, I could not adapt to the world seeing there's like
basically an imaginative moment where the the landscape shifts
to like flowers and like this beautiful lush, you know,
landscape and I that is it immediately when I was like,
whoa, like screensaver. Yeah.
What would become the prod rock that we knew?
(12:59):
Yeah. Once we got more into it and we
met like other lions, I, I, I was more immersed.
But then like when we got to snow landscapes, I was like,
we're here for too long and it feels like 1 kind of thing going
on. So it's, it's hard also because
it's like my mind, is it so muchassociated with seeing that,
that like type of I guess like animation or whatever that like
(13:23):
visual with a screensaver. So it's difficult for me to, to
disconnect from that. It's not as much as me like
criticizing the movie, if that makes sense.
No, I, I understand. I think that's why I hesitate to
call it a live action movie. It just feels like a digitally
rendered remake. Like I think they don't want to
call it that because it sounds alot more hollow and that is
ultimately what you feel at first.
(13:45):
Like all the animals look devoidof real life and it just seems
like inherently a mistake, like when you're watching on screen.
I think where Barry Jenkins cameinto play is how he took the
narrative and what directions hetried to use the screenplay that
he was given. I also think that there is an
aspect of this movie though, it is a a like very diverse cast
that is trying to like get actors paid in this studio
(14:06):
system who would not otherwise cast them and big 200 to $300
million movies, which is amazing.
I also think there's an element of this film that Barry Jenkins
just took as a paycheck because he's producing so many films now
and I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to make a production
company or something to that extent, which good for him.
I hope he got paid 10s of millions of dollars to make this
movie so we can get more of his unique films back on the big
(14:29):
screen. But I guess we can talk about
the the narrative. So this is a prequel of Mufasa
and Scar going from foe to friend to foe once again.
And the Mufasa arc is it's a kids movie.
So it's very trophy. It's directed at children and
(14:51):
the rider. Mufasa is leaning really heavily
on this like destiny trope that the character has this archetype
that is, you know, relevant in the original animated Lion King
film, though it feels like very kind of original in that movie
because it's the original text of these films.
But I found Mufasa as a character surprisingly like,
(15:13):
pretty unlikable. I know, it's just so funny
they're. Like sort of self.
Important really trying to have us to like him, but I well, it's
just obviously we were like wanted something that was a
little bit more like nuance because it's a story that's so
popular sure I don't need Mufasato be this like, you know,
squeaky clean moral character. It'd be interesting actually,
(15:37):
but. He felt like a private school
kid. Do you know what I mean?
And then it was weird because then they positioned Scar as the
private school kid. Like he was the elitist and I
was like, wait, what's happeninghere?
And I, and I think that was the biggest, the surprising thing,
because if you watch the 90s animated movie, you're like, oh,
Scar is kind of spicy. Like what's his deal?
Like, why is he called Scar? Why has he been other than this
way? Oh, oh he has.
(15:57):
He's hyena and lion. Like what's the back story
there? Is there some kind of like a
lion prejudice? Like I was curious to see if
they explored that and not to overthink a kids movie.
I hope we're not like over intellectual.
No, that's but. They felt like obvious things to
do and instead they were like, Nah, like Mufasso is actually
like the most noble of the animals and and Scar was just
(16:19):
always a little jerk. And so yeah, I didn't, I didn't
love that. I thought they could have went
in a different direction, but I guess they do kind of get goofy
sometimes with the music and thetension where Scar is this
obsessive Shakespearean villain and he does definitely like give
theater kid energy in the animation, the original animated
(16:41):
movie. So I understood that choice at
least. But I just yeah, but I think
you're right. Like I just didn't see scar from
the original in this like version of star.
Like, you're right, it did feel like it was strange to make
basically, this isn't a huge spoiler or anything because they
tell us that it's pretty much inthe first like maybe 1520
(17:01):
minutes of the film. But that scar was actually like
going to be king in his own community.
And so his kind of like jealousyand like fall from from that.
And his mother. Pointing it towards Mufasa like
throughout the movie. I just, I, yeah.
There was a mother blaming. There was like love interest
(17:21):
blaming. It felt very like incredibly
trophy for a kids movie where I was like, oh, this feels kind of
out. Like really?
Outdated. They deserve better.
They strangely did, even though again, it's like a strange thing
to criticize, but yeah, but. At the same time, I was like,
surprised that I didn't like, dislike the movie, you know, I
wasn't just because. Yeah, me too.
(17:41):
I walked out. I was like, that was fine.
Yeah, it was fine. There's some songs like there's
a bye bye bye song. I wasn't into it went on a
little too long. The love song unfortunately went
on a little too long because like but also it's so difficult
because you're comparing it to like what is in your mind of of
like can you feel the love tonight or something?
Right. But but yeah, the the brothers
song is good. Unfortunately, it's become like
(18:02):
a. Overused.
Yeah. Yeah.
Online training, yeah, but but that's the Best Song.
There was an interesting conceitwhere Rafiki is just telling the
story of this prequel and you keep cutting back to Timon and
Pumbaa speaking with like Simba's child.
I forget simply a knowledge child.
I forget what their name is but which?
Also tough look for the kid because the kid is a girl lion
(18:24):
and then she finds out that she might be king or queen or like.
The right like I thought she wasbeing told that story because
she was going to be the next leader and then like.
Well the mom pulls up well I will just quick spoiler the
quick spoiler on Mufasa. Not a big deal, just skip.
It actually isn't a part of the story at all.
It's kind of like a deal, yeah. At the end of the movie, it's
(18:44):
told to the our little girl maincharacter who's been like these
stories have been told to her throughout the film and she's
supposed to be in awe just like a children in the audience.
And then she's told that she is a baby brother now.
And we're supposed to assume that he's the next king and
she's like no. Like imagine all the girls in
the audience just like, wait, what?
Yeah, what? What is this?
All right, That was the extra credits of Barry Jenkins Mufasa.
(19:06):
Ultimately, I was pretty let down because it's a Barry
Jenkins movie, but also I didn'thave like high expectations and
I was just happy that he honestly got the money to be
able to go make whatever he wants to make next, which is.
Exciting. I mean, not like I'm just kind
of I I wouldn't say like let down.
I was kind of like just unaffected because of the like
type of movie that that it was. But I think like you're saying
(19:28):
like it's kind of like getting your check.
And then he's doing so many other really interesting
projects in terms of like getting movies made like you
just listed out and we know whathe can do, like in terms of
Moonlight and it feels you can talk and his other projects so.
Yeah, I did have, I did like have this expectation or like
hope at least that because GretaGerwig got Barbie to be this
(19:49):
massive, you know, cultural moments that I was thinking, oh,
could Barry Jenkins do that withLion King?
Well. It feels like what you know
Greta Gerwig is about to do withlike, Narnia, you know?
Yeah. Well, I should add though, Greta
was given a lot more autonomy over that script in production
with Noah Baumbach. Versus Barbie.
Barbie versus Barry Jenkins got here with Mufasa.
(20:10):
Yeah. And I feel like Disney is like
way more, I guess stringent withlike certain types of stories
they are. Yeah, it's weird because
sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
Like the Mulan movie they were the a lot of movie they weren't.
There's been a lot of bad live action films coming out of
Disney. They got to get it together.
All right, so going on the Patreon section for anyone who
(20:31):
wants to listen and watch Moonlight from 2016, you can
stream it right now by renting it or you can buy it on Blu-ray.
It looks amazing on Blu-ray. I recommend that.
By the way, I don't know if you heard, but the Criterion
Collection started announcing its new releases and they always
pick like one movie from the newyear and they picked a Nora.
I saw that. I'm happy for Shawn Baker, happy
(20:56):
for Mikey Madison and happy for the team that made that movie.
However, it's a Nora and it's kind of like a huge movie.
So I was at the same time thinking it was cool.
And they took Nanny from a few years ago, for example, which is
a really under scene, really smart horror film of a remake of
one of the first African movies of all time, the history of
cinema, which is called Black Girl.
Highly recommend people check both of those films out.
(21:17):
Not in that order. Go Black Girl first, then Nanny.
But that's a good example of Criterion actually doing the
service that they're supposed tobe doing, which is like
representing undersea film makers with these Criterion
releases with all these special features.
And doing it for a Nora just felt a little bit strange, you
know, like we just saw hard truths last night and that movie
would make more sense to me because that's going to be a lot
more underseen. Something like a Nora, you know
(21:39):
what I mean? Yeah.
No, that makes sense. I mean, that's kind of like what
Criterion has. Done historically like they did
with Anatomy of a Fall last year, which was, you know, a big
movie, but still, that sort of made sense as an international
feature for us, at least in the US anyways, You can rent or buy
Moonlight. Recommend purchasing it.
Yeah, although I I will say because we watched if Phil St.
(22:00):
could talk on a streamer, right?Like we rented it and the
glitching, like I don't know. Yeah, I it really hasn't
happened to us, I guess, Well, because we watched so many on
blue right now, but it it hadn'thappened to us like for a long
time in terms of like the reallyglitching, but especially with
like a Barry Jenkins movie that is so beautifully shot and we're
(22:22):
like hanging in scenes for a very long time to feel right.
They like emphasis of the the like texture of a scene or like
a, a city or a room that we're in.
It really does take away from the experience so.
I agree, you know what it is. This might be helpful for
listeners if you have the issue too.
Make sure you're not renting movies on your actual TV and
(22:45):
make sure you're using like a 4KRoku device or an Apple TV
device because you'll have a better streaming.
I think the better the a better streaming compression through
those services from what I understand about the.
Technology. We rented on our TV because our
Roku was broken that day, but I think that might have been why.
OK, Hopefully, yeah, unless thisis just the future because I
(23:05):
know that streaming services have been doing this thing and
we're now you have to get these tiered subscriptions.
The people who have lower tieredhave less access to orders on a
streamer and also have less access to better pixels.
So it's it's going to be turninginto a movie dystopia over the
next 10-15 years. It's just cable we're.
Going to be watching blurry movies.
Yeah, it's horrible. It's like you can pay for the
blur. It's like instead of no ads.
The. Least blurry watch blurry movie.
(23:28):
With 17 ads, Blurry movie with 17 ads, or you can buy the movie
for $20.00 with five ads. Wow, this is getting to be a sad
main feat part of the episode. All right, so let's go on to
Patreon for Moonlight. Hope to see you there.
Music. Hello, welcome to the extra
credits of Damien Chazelle, La La Land.
Just kidding. Today we are going to be talking
about Barry Jenkins Moonlight, the movie that won Best Picture
in the 2017 Oscars. Both La La Land and Moonlight
extraordinary films, two of our favorites of the last decade.
(00:35):
We were so lucky to get those movies in the same year, 2016.
I know when they. Released.
That was a crazy good movie year.
Yeah, one of the best of the 20.10 was looking back at the list
of what came out in that year. I mean, it was just also like a
really special movie year for usas well because we, you know,
had like a great independent theatre near us and watched like
all of these amazing movies back-to-back.
(00:56):
Like, I think, you know, we saw 20th century women this year,
Manchester by the sea, Moonlight, La La land, Silence,
fences. Like I think this might be, you
know, long time listener. So I'm not a huge crier at the
movies, which is not a flex. So there may be something broken
about me, but this is the the year that I probably cried the
(01:17):
most in the movie theater. Yeah, and there were some big
surprises too. We had like Sing St.
Captain Fantastic. Those are some underrated films
from the whole decade. I think, yeah.
We were introduced to Tom Hollander.
Most of us were in Civil War. This.
Really. Yeah.
Wow. The.
MCU was killing it, Yeah, you know, and this is when Sony
still had Deadpool, because I think Deadpool released this
year as well. So lots of fun movies.
It's easier to. Think about a time that Marvel
(01:40):
was booming. I know.
I wish we were still in that time.
It would be, it would be nice. We don't need 4 Marvel movies a
year, but one good 1A year wouldbe kind of nice for US 2010's
Marvel fans. Yeah, there was a lot of great
movies this year. We got a Linklater film.
We had Don't Breathe for horror.We had Edge of 17 for coming of
age movies. We even had a good Star Wars
movie, Rogue One. And it's been quite a long time,
(02:01):
maybe since Rogue One that we'vehad a, a very good Star Wars
movie, Fantastic Beast, an X-Menfilm.
Like a lot of interesting moviesand I think Moonlight and Lala
Land are by far the best films of the year, so it ended up
being a really good Oscars. That was quite a moment, seeing
Damien and the whole team run upthere to win for Lala Land.
(02:22):
Yeah, it was kind of confusing to watch it live.
I remember because I genuinely felt bad for like the announcers
who had just made such a mistakelive.
And I remember Emma Stone being kind of pissed, yeah, not
because of losing, but at the announcers, which was kind of
awkward. Yeah, it was really awkward.
It was the only time I've seen her like outside of the kind of
(02:45):
like PR even though I like love her but.
Yeah, I remember the Moonlight team being just stunned and
Barry Jenkins in particular, like, looked, you know, at a
loss. And I understand why, Like, what
a a wild experience, but it's deserving.
I mean, Moonlight is a landmark film In the last decade of
cinema, it redefined and sparkedstudio interest in queer stories
(03:09):
that can be a little bit surreal.
They don't just have to be ground to dramas.
And this is a little bit of both.
And it's a film that introduced most moviegoers to Barry
Jenkins, who I think most movie fans today would agree that
Barry Jenkins is one of the mostunique visual storytellers of
his generation, one of the most emotionally impactful writers,
(03:30):
one of the more important peoplein this industry to show how you
can take indie capital to make large producing decisions or
large studio decisions as he's become like one of the most
important indie producers working.
Today and I feel like, you know,people who are plugged into to
the film space know, but I don'tthink maybe people at at large,
general audiences might know that he, you know, helped to get
(03:53):
after Sun made, which is like such a special movie to so many
people And and really was like helping Charlotte Wells just
kind of like navigate that process as a new film maker.
Yeah, he got all dirts, all dirtroads taste of salt last year
made which I saw very visually unique movie.
He got the fire inside made thisthis winter with Rachel Morrison
(04:17):
is the from from the DP from theRyan Coogler movies, who is now
a film maker in her own red as adirector who made that pretty
good movie. And yeah, he's got more movies
on on the way to. And obviously he's made If Beale
Street Could Talk since Moonlight, which is an excellent
film. He's just made Mufasa, The Lion
King, which we'll get into in a second.
He had ATV series for Amazon, The Underground Railroad, which
(04:40):
I've seen a few episodes of I didn't get to finish, but those
were very good and with some amazing performances.
So yeah, I mean, he's a really special film maker.
I think alongside his peers. I think he stands right up there
with Greta Gerwig as probably 2 directors who've made some real
special indie works that have now used their capital to make
(05:02):
bigger blockbuster movies. Of course, Greta got to make
like the blockbuster which is Barbie and Barry Jenkins got to
make this prequel sequel Lion King live action movie.
But regardless, it is still a huge deal.
Huge. Like, one of the biggest Disney
projects is like, you know, The Lion King.
Yeah, and I think it's like one of the biggest budgets ever
given to a black filmmaker, which is not a small note in the
(05:26):
history of cinema. It's a huge deal.
And the movie's been really successful thus far.
It hasn't done what The Lion King 2019 film did because I
think that was such a a massive moment, like remaking The Lion
King and live action. I gotta go see this.
And then we didn't. See it and then we didn't see
it. Still haven't seen it.
We saw Mufasa recently. But it's because like, I mean,
we, we love animation, but like the live action Disney movies in
(05:49):
particular, I don't know, I justcan't get on board.
I think just because we grew up in the like renaissance of the
Disney movies. Yeah, well, I don't know if I
want to call Mufasa like live action.
I guess let's talk about our relationship to to animation.
I'd like to talk about Barry Jenkins direction with this
Mufasa movie, what we liked, what we didn't like about it.
Maybe it's like a mini review here on the main feed before we
(06:11):
jump into Moonlight behind a paywall on Patreon.
You know, we've only covered a few animated movies on our feed,
and that's not because we don't love animation.
I think it's fair to say that, you know, we both love it.
We love hand drawn animation. We love digital animation from
Studio Ghibli to Pixar to Disney.
We're fans of different styles within this medium, as long as
(06:32):
those styles never get interfered with.
Generative AI, which hopefully the industry makes more
regulations over the next few decades because of that fear and
that danger. But you know, we, we have
covered animation movies before.I think we did the Toy Story
films. Yeah, I think mostly Pixar
stuff. Mostly Pixar stuff.
We did do Marcel the Shell and had Dean Fleischer Camp, the
director of that movie, come on last year, two years ago now,
(06:53):
and that was a great conversation we'd have with him.
That's one of our. Favorite and he's about to do
Lilo. And Stitch, yes, I was about to
say that because I think we might end up covering Lilo and
Stitch on the movie because thatmovie was so iconic.
For our generation. I haven't watched it since but.
Either I think it would be a funPatreon idea if we rewatch it
and like it. If we rewatch like this, isn't
it? I don't know, I feel like it
might be good on rewatch. I was so into like the aspect of
(07:17):
like outer space with Lilo and Stitch.
It was really cool. I was also really into the TV
series as a kid. I think that was a real thing.
I don't think I'm making that up.
I'm pretty. Sure, with the crew going to it
wasn't the two main leads, but. Wasn't there like a?
There's a bunch of aliens that were following.
I think so. I don't know, but I, I played
games. Yeah, I was.
(07:37):
There's a lot of like off, you know, branching off projects.
But go back to what you were saying.
It's not that we don't like liveaction movies, right?
Like I think we've grown up withthose in different moments.
I think the first most famous live action remake of a animated
film was actually Glenn Close's Corella Deville and 101
(07:58):
Dalmatians, which was a huge movie.
For people in the 90s, like, it's not that I'm like out on
them completely, it's just that I like them less.
Than like, I mean, I, you feel it like we watched Cinderella in
like 2015 or 2016. We're kind of you feel a little
bit cold after watching it afterthe animation brings such such a
vibrant liveliness to those. Movies like we rewatched The
(08:20):
Lion King the original 1 and theanimation was wild like.
It's also just a beautiful film.It's a great story.
It's incredible score. I mean, it's, I mean, it feels
weird to say about the original Lion King.
Yeah, it's pretty good. But we did, we did throw on The
Lion King before going to see Mufasa just to get a feel
because it's been so long, like literally since we were like
teenagers. We've seen that movie probably.
(08:41):
And we were just like singing along to the songs, like having
a good time. It was fun.
And so we got pretty, I think, stoked for Mufasa, and I wasn't
let down about Mufasa. And we'll get to that in just a
second. Yeah, we neither, I will say in
2019, when the original Lion King came out and made over a
billion dollars, I think it says$1.6 billion here.
(09:03):
And I think Mufasa will only make a third of that.
One of the reasons I didn't see it was because, well, it was
like the beginning of our teaching career.
So we were very tired, but also it looked so dull, like in
trailers. It just looks so uninteresting
to me. And when you look back at the
technology of that era, it was avery big deal.
It was something that people were like, we have to go and see
(09:24):
this not just because it's a remake, but it was an evolution
of technology where we saw this evolution of live action
filmmaking by using these entirely computer generated
visuals and sets. They used VR technology on that
film that got away from motion capture that had become famous
from like Andy Serkis work and Lord of the Rings and then later
in the Planet of the Apes movies.
(09:46):
So there aren't actually any live actors on sets in the 2019
film. And Mufasa continued this trend.
And these two movies are fascinating because they're just
sort of like digitally renderingthe most important Disney film
maybe of all time, which is the original Lion King that we love
so much and, you know. Maybe that's like why I also
(10:07):
was. It feels like a cash grab a
little bit, and you're like, I don't know if I want to go see
these. But when Barry Jenkins was
signed on to make this prequel sequel, I was like, I'm in
because there is one character where I've always wanted a
little bit of a back story with.And even though I hate this new
trend of trying to sympathize with the villains of classic
movies, I've always wanted to know a little bit more about
Scar. He's a fascinating character.
(10:27):
And when this movie was called Mufasa, I was like, oh, that's
an interesting way to like subvert the Mufasa hero journey.
I'm sure they're going to take us into Scars journey.
Of course, my expectations were let down.
If you've seen Mufasa, that's not at all what it's about.
Star gets a lot of screen time, but it's not what you think or
not what I thought at least. And I was trying to not judge
the movie from that expectation.But ultimately I was like pretty
(10:49):
happy with Mufasa. So I guess we can talk about it
now. No spoilers, but no like serious
spoilers. But I was surprised.
It was a brand new story. Yeah, I did just like you
though. I mean, I think of course, like
these movies are in a lot of ways like made and geared
towards like kids, right? And then also the like adults
(11:11):
who are watching this movie withtheir kids.
I think something like Cruella is a maybe a different example
where maybe that is like geared towards like audiences who maybe
like the original film and you know, our fans of Emma Stone,
like, you know, for example, butwith a kind of like live action
remake, especially like focusingon The Lion King and Mufasa in
(11:34):
particular. Like this was definitely like
geared towards children. And I thought like, even though,
even though that's the case, though, I, I do think you could
do something a little bit more interesting with Scar, which
isn't up to Barry Jenkins, you know?
Yeah, he didn't write this one. Right.
So, but that's but that's what kind of what I left the movie
with, even though I was like, oh, like that was that was fine.
(11:56):
There were a couple like songs that went on too long for me,
but other than that I was like, well, let's talk pretty much in.
Let's talk about the aesthetics and the style of the filmmaking
first before we get into the narrative pretty quickly, I want
to ask you, did this movie feel actually imaginative in terms of
the technology, or did it look like a screensaver to you?
(12:17):
Because I think I kept going back and forth.
It took me a second to. Say it the immersed different
moments it felt school and othermoments it didn't like.
For example, at the very beginning of the movie, I think
you were more in at first because there's a really
dramatic like tension with Mufasa and his his.
Parents, the very beginning. Of the movie for me, I like
(12:38):
couldn't, I could not adapt to the world seeing there's like
basically an imaginative moment where the the landscape shifts
to like flowers and like this beautiful lush, you know,
landscape and I that is it immediately when I was like,
whoa, like screensaver. Yeah.
What would become the prod rock that we knew?
(12:59):
Yeah. Once we got more into it and we
met like other lions, I, I, I was more immersed.
But then like when we got to snow landscapes, I was like,
we're here for too long and it feels like 1 kind of thing going
on. So it's, it's hard also because
it's like my mind, is it so muchassociated with seeing that,
that like type of I guess like animation or whatever that like
(13:23):
visual with a screensaver. So it's difficult for me to, to
disconnect from that. It's not as much as me like
criticizing the movie, if that makes sense.
No, I, I understand. I think that's why I hesitate to
call it a live action movie. It just feels like a digitally
rendered remake. Like I think they don't want to
call it that because it sounds alot more hollow and that is
ultimately what you feel at first.
(13:45):
Like all the animals look devoidof real life and it just seems
like inherently a mistake, like when you're watching on screen.
I think where Barry Jenkins cameinto play is how he took the
narrative and what directions hetried to use the screenplay that
he was given. I also think that there is an
aspect of this movie though, it is a a like very diverse cast
that is trying to like get actors paid in this studio
(14:06):
system who would not otherwise cast them and big 200 to $300
million movies, which is amazing.
I also think there's an element of this film that Barry Jenkins
just took as a paycheck because he's producing so many films now
and I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to make a production
company or something to that extent, which good for him.
I hope he got paid 10s of millions of dollars to make this
movie so we can get more of his unique films back on the big
(14:29):
screen. But I guess we can talk about
the the narrative. So this is a prequel of Mufasa
and Scar going from foe to friend to foe once again.
And the Mufasa arc is it's a kids movie.
So it's very trophy. It's directed at children and
(14:51):
the rider. Mufasa is leaning really heavily
on this like destiny trope that the character has this archetype
that is, you know, relevant in the original animated Lion King
film, though it feels like very kind of original in that movie
because it's the original text of these films.
But I found Mufasa as a character surprisingly like,
(15:13):
pretty unlikable. I know, it's just so funny
they're. Like sort of self.
Important really trying to have us to like him, but I well, it's
just obviously we were like wanted something that was a
little bit more like nuance because it's a story that's so
popular sure I don't need Mufasato be this like, you know,
squeaky clean moral character. It'd be interesting actually,
(15:37):
but. He felt like a private school
kid. Do you know what I mean?
And then it was weird because then they positioned Scar as the
private school kid. Like he was the elitist and I
was like, wait, what's happeninghere?
And I, and I think that was the biggest, the surprising thing,
because if you watch the 90s animated movie, you're like, oh,
Scar is kind of spicy. Like what's his deal?
Like, why is he called Scar? Why has he been other than this
way? Oh, oh he has.
(15:57):
He's hyena and lion. Like what's the back story
there? Is there some kind of like a
lion prejudice? Like I was curious to see if
they explored that and not to overthink a kids movie.
I hope we're not like over intellectual.
No, that's but. They felt like obvious things to
do and instead they were like, Nah, like Mufasso is actually
like the most noble of the animals and and Scar was just
(16:19):
always a little jerk. And so yeah, I didn't, I didn't
love that. I thought they could have went
in a different direction, but I guess they do kind of get goofy
sometimes with the music and thetension where Scar is this
obsessive Shakespearean villain and he does definitely like give
theater kid energy in the animation, the original animated
(16:41):
movie. So I understood that choice at
least. But I just yeah, but I think
you're right. Like I just didn't see scar from
the original in this like version of star.
Like, you're right, it did feel like it was strange to make
basically, this isn't a huge spoiler or anything because they
tell us that it's pretty much inthe first like maybe 1520
(17:01):
minutes of the film. But that scar was actually like
going to be king in his own community.
And so his kind of like jealousyand like fall from from that.
And his mother. Pointing it towards Mufasa like
throughout the movie. I just, I, yeah.
There was a mother blaming. There was like love interest
(17:21):
blaming. It felt very like incredibly
trophy for a kids movie where I was like, oh, this feels kind of
out. Like really?
Outdated. They deserve better.
They strangely did, even though again, it's like a strange thing
to criticize, but yeah, but. At the same time, I was like,
surprised that I didn't like, dislike the movie, you know, I
wasn't just because. Yeah, me too.
(17:41):
I walked out. I was like, that was fine.
Yeah, it was fine. There's some songs like there's
a bye bye bye song. I wasn't into it went on a
little too long. The love song unfortunately went
on a little too long because like but also it's so difficult
because you're comparing it to like what is in your mind of of
like can you feel the love tonight or something?
Right. But but yeah, the the brothers
song is good. Unfortunately, it's become like
(18:02):
a. Overused.
Yeah. Yeah.
Online training, yeah, but but that's the Best Song.
There was an interesting conceitwhere Rafiki is just telling the
story of this prequel and you keep cutting back to Timon and
Pumbaa speaking with like Simba's child.
I forget simply a knowledge child.
I forget what their name is but which?
Also tough look for the kid because the kid is a girl lion
(18:24):
and then she finds out that she might be king or queen or like.
The right like I thought she wasbeing told that story because
she was going to be the next leader and then like.
Well the mom pulls up well I will just quick spoiler the
quick spoiler on Mufasa. Not a big deal, just skip.
It actually isn't a part of the story at all.
It's kind of like a deal, yeah. At the end of the movie, it's
(18:44):
told to the our little girl maincharacter who's been like these
stories have been told to her throughout the film and she's
supposed to be in awe just like a children in the audience.
And then she's told that she is a baby brother now.
And we're supposed to assume that he's the next king and
she's like no. Like imagine all the girls in
the audience just like, wait, what?
Yeah, what? What is this?
All right, That was the extra credits of Barry Jenkins Mufasa.
(19:06):
Ultimately, I was pretty let down because it's a Barry
Jenkins movie, but also I didn'thave like high expectations and
I was just happy that he honestly got the money to be
able to go make whatever he wants to make next, which is.
Exciting. I mean, not like I'm just kind
of I I wouldn't say like let down.
I was kind of like just unaffected because of the like
type of movie that that it was. But I think like you're saying
(19:28):
like it's kind of like getting your check.
And then he's doing so many other really interesting
projects in terms of like getting movies made like you
just listed out and we know whathe can do, like in terms of
Moonlight and it feels you can talk and his other projects so.
Yeah, I did have, I did like have this expectation or like
hope at least that because GretaGerwig got Barbie to be this
(19:49):
massive, you know, cultural moments that I was thinking, oh,
could Barry Jenkins do that withLion King?
Well. It feels like what you know
Greta Gerwig is about to do withlike, Narnia, you know?
Yeah. Well, I should add though, Greta
was given a lot more autonomy over that script in production
with Noah Baumbach. Versus Barbie.
Barbie versus Barry Jenkins got here with Mufasa.
(20:10):
Yeah. And I feel like Disney is like
way more, I guess stringent withlike certain types of stories
they are. Yeah, it's weird because
sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
Like the Mulan movie they were the a lot of movie they weren't.
There's been a lot of bad live action films coming out of
Disney. They got to get it together.
All right, so going on the Patreon section for anyone who
(20:31):
wants to listen and watch Moonlight from 2016, you can
stream it right now by renting it or you can buy it on Blu-ray.
It looks amazing on Blu-ray. I recommend that.
By the way, I don't know if you heard, but the Criterion
Collection started announcing its new releases and they always
pick like one movie from the newyear and they picked a Nora.
I saw that. I'm happy for Shawn Baker, happy
(20:56):
for Mikey Madison and happy for the team that made that movie.
However, it's a Nora and it's kind of like a huge movie.
So I was at the same time thinking it was cool.
And they took Nanny from a few years ago, for example, which is
a really under scene, really smart horror film of a remake of
one of the first African movies of all time, the history of
cinema, which is called Black Girl.
Highly recommend people check both of those films out.
(21:17):
Not in that order. Go Black Girl first, then Nanny.
But that's a good example of Criterion actually doing the
service that they're supposed tobe doing, which is like
representing undersea film makers with these Criterion
releases with all these special features.
And doing it for a Nora just felt a little bit strange, you
know, like we just saw hard truths last night and that movie
would make more sense to me because that's going to be a lot
more underseen. Something like a Nora, you know
(21:39):
what I mean? Yeah.
No, that makes sense. I mean, that's kind of like what
Criterion has. Done historically like they did
with Anatomy of a Fall last year, which was, you know, a big
movie, but still, that sort of made sense as an international
feature for us, at least in the US anyways, You can rent or buy
Moonlight. Recommend purchasing it.
Yeah, although I I will say because we watched if Phil St.
(22:00):
could talk on a streamer, right?Like we rented it and the
glitching, like I don't know. Yeah, I it really hasn't
happened to us, I guess, Well, because we watched so many on
blue right now, but it it hadn'thappened to us like for a long
time in terms of like the reallyglitching, but especially with
like a Barry Jenkins movie that is so beautifully shot and we're
(22:22):
like hanging in scenes for a very long time to feel right.
They like emphasis of the the like texture of a scene or like
a, a city or a room that we're in.
It really does take away from the experience so.
I agree, you know what it is. This might be helpful for
listeners if you have the issue too.
Make sure you're not renting movies on your actual TV and
(22:45):
make sure you're using like a 4KRoku device or an Apple TV
device because you'll have a better streaming.
I think the better the a better streaming compression through
those services from what I understand about the.
Technology. We rented on our TV because our
Roku was broken that day, but I think that might have been why.
OK, Hopefully, yeah, unless thisis just the future because I
(23:05):
know that streaming services have been doing this thing and
we're now you have to get these tiered subscriptions.
The people who have lower tieredhave less access to orders on a
streamer and also have less access to better pixels.
So it's it's going to be turninginto a movie dystopia over the
next 10-15 years. It's just cable we're.
Going to be watching blurry movies.
Yeah, it's horrible. It's like you can pay for the
blur. It's like instead of no ads.
The. Least blurry watch blurry movie.
(23:28):
With 17 ads, Blurry movie with 17 ads, or you can buy the movie
for $20.00 with five ads. Wow, this is getting to be a sad
main feat part of the episode. All right, so let's go on to
Patreon for Moonlight. Hope to see you there.
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