March 25, 2025 • 46 mins
Warner Brothers restoration experts Miles Del Hoyo and George Feltenstein take us behind the scenes of the stunning 4K restoration of John Ford's classic western The Searchers, revealing the technical wizardry that brought new life to this cinematic masterpiece.
• Technical breakdown of the scanning process for VistaVision film at extraordinary 10K resolution
• Challenges of restoring proper colors from a faded negative, especially fixing the sky from yellow to proper blue
• How the team stitched together split 8-perf frames to create seamless images
• Frame-by-frame corrections of technical errors present in the original negative
• Audio restoration process maintaining the original mono sound while enhancing clarity
• Quality assurance process involving multiple stages of review and Film Foundation approval
• Preview that more 4K releases from Warner Archive will be announced in the coming month
If you haven't yet purchased your copy of The Searchers on 4K or Blu-ray, I highly encourage you to do so. The 4K combo pack includes the remastered Blu-ray with all extras. Please vote for The Searchers in the MediaPlay Home Entertainment Awards before March 31st for Best Restoration and Best Audio and Visual Quality categories.
Link to VOTE in the MediaPlay Home Ent Awards Be sure to vote by March 31st.
Purchase links:
The Searchers Remastered Blu-ray
REVIEW - THE DAY THE EARTH BLEW UP: A LOONEY TUNES MOVIE with Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Millard (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the Extras.
I'm Tim Lard, your host, andjoining me are George
Feltenstein and Myles Del Hoyofrom Warner Brothers.
Hi guys, hi, hey Tim.
George Feltenstein (00:17):
Hey Tim.
Tim Millard (00:19):
Myles, we worked together for all those years.
I was there, but I haven't seenyou in so long, so it's good to
see you, it's good to see youtoo.
Miles DelHoyo (00:27):
It's been a while .
Tim Millard (00:29):
Yeah, and from the looks of the background there's
nobody else there either.
Miles DelHoyo (00:34):
A lot of layups over there.
Yeah Well, that's part of it,but I'm fortunate to be in a
private space at the moment, soit's great to have that privacy
as we discuss this.
Tim Millard (00:44):
Yeah, yeah, good private space at the moment, so
it's great to have that privacyas we discuss this.
Yeah, yeah, good.
Well, our listeners are veryfamiliar with George, so I
wanted to start with you, miles,and just have you give us a
little background on what it isthat you do there at Warner
Brothers.
Miles DelHoyo (00:57):
Okay, that's a loaded question.
So I've been at Warner Brothersfor 15 years and through that
time I've had the privilege ofbeing at the forefront of a lot
of new technical advancements inthe industry for entertainment,
video and audio, and mybackground has been mostly in
(01:18):
that before joining WarnerBrothers, so it was great to
continue that as part of mycareer path.
Most recently, though, I'vebeen heavily involved in
restoration work, namely filmrestoration for catalog
theatrical films, and that'sbeen a great opportunity for me
(01:41):
to be able to dive into some ofthese classics and and even some
lesser known classics that uhwere able to breathe new life
into them in the 4k with highdynamic range, um color grading
and they just look amazing.
To be able to see these films,uh in that light and to to
(02:01):
experience them all over again,which, uh, in many cases, feels
like cases feels like it's freshand brand new and you're
catching and seeing things thatyou never really appreciated
before because you couldn'tRight and now you can.
So, yeah, but my background hasbeen very much in audio video
technology and, with theadvancements in today's display
technologies, which has justgone leaps and bounds in, just
(02:23):
like the last 10 years, Displaytechnologies, which has just
gone leaps and bounds in, justlike the last 10 years, and with
how we can experience andappreciate movies and television
as well and other entertainmentcontent at home on displays,
(02:44):
whether it's a dedicated hometheater or even mobile.
So these displays are quiteadvanced to be able to show
probably more detail than somepeople would like you to see.
And that's where you know,mastering comes in to make sure
that it's curated properly andthat it looks the way it should.
And so that's my job right nowis to help supervise, if not
oversee, that process from startto finish and the finishing
being going out to market so theconsumers can enjoy it.
Tim Millard (03:07):
Right, and when I was there, I worked in the home
entertainment side for theextras.
But what is the group thatyou're actually a part of?
What's the official name?
Miles DelHoyo (03:18):
Well, my immediate group is a small
department.
It's called Emerging Formatsand Mastering and Mastering is a
small department.
It's called emerging uh formatsand mastering and mastering and
, yeah, and we fall within thelarger umbrella post-production
creative services.
So we're happy to be a part ofthat larger group because it
really uh speaks to the pointthat our focus is on creation
and, uh, creative intent, to bespecific, and we, we safeguard
(03:42):
that um uh feverishly.
You know that's somethingthat's very important.
Right for us to make sure thatthat we, we safeguard that um uh
feverishly.
You know that's somethingthat's very important for us.
To make sure that that we arein line with the artistic vision
and uh, and that's that's.
That's something that I knowthe fans appreciate too,
especially when it comes torestoring classic film.
So, um, we're all in line withthat.
Tim Millard (04:01):
Well, George, we're here to talk about the
Searcher's 4K, which was thefirst 4K release from the Warner
Archive, and it's been a hugesuccess.
Maybe you could take us back,George, to working with Miles
and some of the background onhow the Searcher's 4K came to be
a Warner Archive release.
George Feltenstein (04:20):
Well, the great thing is is that when the
restoration work began underMiles' supervision, there was no
finite plan on how it was goingto be released and there were
(04:41):
some big projects being donepretty much simultaneously.
Miles, you can clarify if I'mwrong, but I believe North by
Northwest and the searchers weredone very close together.
Is that accurate?
Miles DelHoyo (04:56):
Yeah, very concurrent.
They were going at the sametime with different colorists
and operators involved in theprocess, with different colors
and operators involved in theprocess.
But yeah, we started those bothlate 2023.
Yeah, together.
George Feltenstein (05:11):
And both of these titles were with the
promotional and substantialemotional support of the Film
Foundation, as Warner Brothersand the Film Foundation worked
very closely together on severalinitiatives, so both of these
(05:31):
were in play at the time andwhen it came time for release,
my colleagues and I all talkabout what we're going to do
with various 4K titles.
Miles is part of thoseconversations as well, and
everyone thought that they wouldtake North by Northwest out
(05:52):
through traditional retail, butthat Warner Archive could have
its first shot at a 4K with thesearchers.
And for me, the searchers andfor me, the gratifying part
about that is not only that I'm,like many people, such a
(06:17):
passionate fan of the film, butI was incredibly moved by the
excellence of the restorationthat Miles and colorist Jan
Yarborough at Motion PictureImaging Warner Brothers Motion
Picture Imaging their work onthe film and their work on the
audio as well, because pictureand sound are of equal
importance.
And it was such an honor to beable to bring this film to 4K
(06:40):
HDR in a 4K Blu-ray combo with abeautiful slip sleeve, two
hours of extras, and that wehave the original key art.
Actually that came from the UKcampaign, but not some altered
(07:01):
version of how to represent thefilm.
I'm a firm believer in originalkey art if it's good, and
that's why we went with the UKkey art and not the US key art,
because the US poster has alittle bit of floating heads and
some things that wouldn't bequite right for a cover and it's
(07:22):
what's inside the discultimately that counts.
And the 4k has been authored byfidelity in motion so that it
had a huge bit rate and we tookgreat pride in it.
And miles really led the chargeto be able to work internally
so that we could take a lot ofthe standard definition to work
(07:47):
internally, so that we couldtake a lot of the standard
definition originally standarddefinition enhanced content
pieces and have them upconverted to high definition on
the Blu-ray disc so that theywould look as good as they could
, because the material, thesepieces that were made a lot of
them were so impressive that wedidn't want them to be left
(08:10):
behind because they weren'tstandard definition.
So Miles had a great deal to do, not just with overseeing the
mastering of the movie and thecolor correction and the audio,
but he also made incalculablecontributions to the overall
presentation and for that I'mvery grateful.
Miles DelHoyo (08:32):
Yeah it was a fun little project to work on.
I mean I say that now, but itwas definitely a doozy during
the time because there were somany moving pieces and there
were several complexitiesinvolved in making it look as
good as it did.
But the bonus or the specialfeatures were a part of that, as
George mentioned, and takingthose which we had the best
(08:55):
quality sources available asinterlaced standard definition
video content, we wanted to putthose on the disc in a more
favorable quality that wouldlend itself closer towards the
quality we were trying toachieve for the feature.
So we did that and it came outlooking great.
We have some state-of-the-arttools that are proprietary at
(09:18):
the studio and some really,really smart people that I get
the benefit of work with thatwere involved in making that
happen.
So we're very pleased with theend results on the disc.
For anybody who has that, Ihope they enjoy it because it
you know a lot of attention wentinto making every aspect of
that disc look as good as itdoes.
Tim Millard (09:39):
And I'm extremely appreciative since I worked in
the creation of the extras, noton this title but on other
titles that you guys went tothat extra work of making sure
that it looked great for thefans out there.
And, George, I think that's oneof the positive things that
people have said about therelease is that you packed it
with all of those extras and youdid go to the efforts to make
(10:02):
it look so good so that the fanscan really kind of replace what
they had before with this,especially the combo pack right,
the 4K with Blu-ray.
George Feltenstein (10:12):
We always try to carry over legacy content
in our Blu-rays and this was a4K where the only thing on the
4K disc is the Peter Bogdanovichcommentary.
But we also have the Blu-rayavailable, not just in the combo
(10:35):
pack, which is where the extrafeatures lie, but we made a new
Blu-ray available to those whohave not yet made the move to 4K
, because our previous Blu-ray,which is almost 20 years old, is
very much worth replacing.
I'll leave it at that Right andthe difference is so dramatic.
(11:02):
We're very, very proud of thework and I'm so grateful that
this has all come together andwe will have only a handful of
4K releases coming from WarnerArchive, but they will be very,
very special films.
Tim Millard (11:20):
I did want to take the listeners a little behind
the scenes here into yourprocess.
If that's okay, Myles, Sure,I'll try to speak to what I can
yeah, just what you can speak to.
But when you see these titlescome to you and you know you're
going to be working on them,what is kind of the workflow
(11:41):
process?
Kind of the workflow process?
Tell us a little bit about whatyou do to put this into place
as you're going forward and youmake out your schedule of this
work.
Miles DelHoyo (11:53):
Sure, the process does start identifying the
master and all available piecesthat go towards creating, or
recreating, if you will, theentire picture.
We have a whole team that'sthat has the responsibility in
our archive archival group toinvestigate, research, identify
(12:17):
and pull in the best availablesource elements and as part of
our preservation strategy, thatteam pulls in these elements
very carefully, checks themthrough with certified
facilities and processes tosafeguard them.
Then they'll be scanned, thesefilm elements, into a digital
(12:40):
intermediate file format whichthen becomes our source where we
start the downstream digitalrestoration process of creating
the 4K and HDR and putting itout to a screen format that is
applicable by today's standards.
So it does start there, I wouldsay the research and quality
(13:04):
check process probably is I mean, depending on the title,
anywhere from four to eightweeks, and then we get into the
scanning process, which couldtake easily another four to six
weeks, and that's before we evenstart getting it into cleanup
(13:50):
and color correction and thosedownstream steps, which they
have their own timeline aboutfour to five months of work from
when we investigate to when wecomplete and quality check, a
final master that can then besent to the disk authoring
vendor facility to do the workto create the disk image and put
that out to market.
In addition, we also make itavailable for streaming through
digital.
But from that point to where westart to making it available for
distribution, it's about, youknow, I would say, average four
(14:10):
months, and we've had titlesthat have taken longer, and I
only make note of that becausethe ones that take longer
typically involve some form oftalent, a talent we typically
would involve filmmakers,whether it's a director or
(14:31):
director of photography or evenan editor, because, like I said
earlier, the creative intent ismost important to us and there
is a lot of subjectivity, if youwill, in what we do, especially
when we get into color, if youwill, and what we do when,
especially when we get intocolor.
Uh, we do have references thatwe follow, but sometimes you
can't beat, uh, in most casesyou can't beat the uh, the
(14:51):
definitive reference, which isthe people who made the film to
begin with, um, and in manycases that's the director or the
director of photography.
So when they are involved, itcan, um, make our timelines a
bit longer than that, but that'salways a good thing and we
appreciate their involvement.
Tim Millard (15:08):
George, I remember we talked about, you know, the
searchers and how this newversion has the colors correct,
so to speak.
George Feltenstein (15:17):
Right, yes, the sky is blue, not yellow.
Tim Millard (15:21):
Exactly so I think you know, just to follow up with
Miles' comment there, when thefilmmakers aren't there, how did
you guys go about that?
Miles DelHoyo (15:29):
uh, making sure that these colors were correct
yeah, well, uh, I mean, there'sa lot of common sense with
respect to some of that stuff,you know you want.
you want things to look like youwould expect them to.
Skies are typically blue unlessyou have some sort of um
armageddon fallout happening.
But in the case of of thesearchers, there was a lot of
common sense.
We did have existing printsthey for reference and um, we
(15:54):
had I'll just say this becausewe didn't have a filmmaker
involvement, because they're notavailable, obviously.
Uh, this was 1956 and john johnJohn Ford is not with us.
But we did have the benefit ofhaving our senior, most
experienced colorist on theproject, mr Jan Yarbrough, and
he's been at Warner Brothers forover 30 years, I'm sure, in the
(16:18):
capacity in which he has workedin color correction.
So he is extremely talented andthere was no doubt in my mind
that having him on the job wouldyield the best results and he
did take his time to get it doneright.
We'd go back and we would getinvolved and question things and
we'd make sure that no stonewas unturned, to say that, to
(16:44):
use that term.
But back to the previoustransfer.
It's a little bit of historythere.
So, as George mentioned, it wasalmost 20 years ago.
I think 2006 was when thatfirst transfer was done for high
definition, the early days ofHD distribution and this film
(17:05):
has an original camera negativethat had faded with respect to
its color retention, so thecolor of the dye within the
actual negative had deterioratedquite a bit.
And so there were what we callprotection prints that were made
YCM separations yellow, cyanand magenta and the way those
(17:30):
are done is they're done in kindof a grayscale output to
register both of those threeprimary colors.
And so those were used.
Those YCM separation protectionprints were used in 2006 and
scanned at 6K on inferiorscanners at the time to create
that transfer.
And I would expect that,because of the source used and
(17:51):
some of the deficiencies at thetime and other aspects that were
involved, attributed to a lessthan premium quality or even,
you know, a logical quality thatwe would want to say is of
today's standards.
It just didn't happen.
(18:12):
The sky was, I think, anunfortunate side effect of that.
But today we have superiorscanners, we have a brand new
one that we just used on thisproject to where we were able to
scan an ultra high resolution,because this is VistaVision.
We scanned the eight perforationframe in two pieces, four perf
(18:38):
and four perf.
So we took a frame and wescanned it in half, and each
half was scanned at roughly 10K.
So you're looking at 10K by 7K.
Vertical is roughly 76 millionpixels.
So we had a lot of area that wewere able to cover in our
(18:59):
digital intermediate file, whichwasn't there in 2006.
It's no more than a 6K and thatwas for the entire film frame
of the eight perf.
So if you double that, you knowyou're looking at over 150
million pixels, because thatfour perf and the four perf
together, making the singleVistaVision eight perf frame,
(19:19):
was a lot of pixels and theresults were just tremendous,
and so that was the first stepin gathering this together and
making it a success.
We also had the benefit of newtechnology to where we were able
to have a refined stitchingprocess to take the half of each
one of those eight perforationframes and stitch them together
(19:40):
digitally to make a seamlesssingle frame image that you have
now today.
And we did that in a six and ahalf K resolution stitching
process, which was the maximumwe could do for the stitching
tool, and then ultimately endedup color grading in six and a
half K and then downscaled totoday's 4K format from that.
(20:02):
My point in sharing all that isthat it's just the technology is
so much better now just fromthe scanning point of view.
We're able to yield such greaterresults by having so much more
information pulled from thenegative.
In addition, we also re-scanthose ycm separation masters to
get as much of what we could outof both available sources.
(20:27):
Uh, the blue channel in the inthe original negative had the
worst effect of of deterioration.
So that was one area where,using the blue channel from the
ycm scan, we were able torestore and bring back uh quite
a bit of that blue which againprobably attributed to most
(20:49):
likely attributed to betterlooking skies and other areas of
the film that blue right blueon on the shirts uh and the
clothing and other areas you cansee.
There's one scene that I reallylike where um ethan uh played
by uh john wayne, he's holdingup his war medal, the civil war
war medal, and he's showing itto his uh, his niece, um, and
(21:14):
that image, just a close-up,it's just such high fidelity and
and beautiful color and you cansee very clearly everything
that was in that original cameracapture was able to be restored
by today's technology.
So that was.
That just again proves thattechnology is everything when it
comes to these restorations,and we have the benefit of
(21:36):
having superior technology thatwe've never had before to do it.
Tim Millard (21:39):
Right, and if I have it correct, did you say you
did a 10K scan.
Miles DelHoyo (21:47):
Yeah, yeah, so the scanner allowed for a 10K 4
perf scan.
This is 35 millimeterVistaVision, so it's 8 perf,
which, if you think of it, it'sa 35 millimeter standard, but
it's captured horizontallyrather than vertically through a
camera, right, right, it'sroughly two and a half times
(22:11):
more the negative that we canscan from.
So we wanted to capture as muchof that as possible and retain
the fine grain structure that'sin the VistaVision film negative
.
So the only way we could dothat by today's standards is to
take every frame, which is eightperfs, and split that in half,
(22:34):
so a standard four perf frame ofthe eight perfs.
So each half was scanned ataround 10K and then stitched
together and the stitchingprocess yielded a 6.5K after
cropping and properly formattingit to what we needed for the
final color.
Tim Millard (22:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's partly why it must
look so good.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Miles DelHoyo (22:59):
And you know, arguably in 2006, when you just
had HD as your final output, youprobably wouldn't notice that
as much, but by 4K and HDR youdefinitely want to start with an
image of that caliber, of thatquality, because we're really
enhancing the pixels in the highdynamic range where your lights
(23:20):
, mid-tones and highlights areall visible on the screen at the
same time, and being able tohave all of that pulled from the
original negative during thescanning process at such high
fidelity is very important tothat process when we get to HDR,
to make it look as good as itdoes.
Tim Millard (23:36):
Outside of what you just said about doing the split
, was there any otherinteresting things that the
VistaVision required for thisrestoration remaster.
Miles DelHoyo (23:49):
Well, I mentioned the split and the stitching Um.
(24:18):
Well, I mentioned the split andthe stitching Um, I think,
everything for our archive andpreservation so that we retain
the most information from thatfilm print and then we carry
that into the HDR process.
So I think, beyond thestitching aspect the split frame
stitching process everythingelse pretty much follows suit
with how we handle a standardproject.
Tim Millard (24:39):
Right?
Well, and because you startedwith such a high you know 10K
then you bring it down, like yousaid, and you stitch it
together at the 6K.
The Blu-ray also reallybenefits from that as well,
right?
Miles DelHoyo (24:52):
Oh for sure.
Yeah, the Blu-ray becomes aderivative of our master source.
Our master source, at finish,when we render out from the
color session, is in 4K, ultrahigh def.
So that's 3840 by 2160 pixels,it's roughly 8 million pixels on
your screen.
On your screen, and this, um, Ithink this, uh was a 185 aspect
(25:19):
ratio.
So we're, we're showing theentire image, um, and at that
resolution on your display.
Yeah, and when it goes to astandard blu-ray, we we do
what's called a color trim tothe rec 709 color gamut for
legacy display color standardsin HDTV and in 1080p.
So you get definitely adownscaled version of the higher
(25:43):
resolution, but you retain allthe information by downscaling
rather than upscaling.
That's inherent in the originalsource that is optimized for
that legacy display, inclusiveof the color benefits.
So we are color grading in amuch larger color volume and the
(26:03):
benefits of that are found aswe trim from larger volume or
larger box down to the smallervolume or box which is your
Rec.709 Gamut for standardlegacy displays.
Tim Millard (26:15):
And I wanted to point that out because there are
still a lot of people wholisten to this podcast and watch
us on YouTube who have notupgraded to 4K.
And it's just a great point tosay this new remastered Blu-ray
is going to give you a muchbetter picture and sound than
the previous Blu-ray.
So even if you have the Blu-rayand you think, well, I already
have it on Blu-ray is going togive you a much better picture
and sound than the previousBlu-ray.
So even if you have the Blu-rayand you think, well, I already
(26:36):
have it on Blu-ray, there is ahuge benefit to this one.
So even if you say, well,that's all nice and good about
the 4K, there is a huge benefitfor just getting the newer
Blu-ray as well, right, george?
George Feltenstein (26:50):
Yes, and that goes without saying, and
because of the work that wasdone here to Miles' good point
of earlier.
The technology of when the lastBlu-ray was made, almost 20
years ago, of the searchers waslimited in so many ways.
But there was also revisionistcolor correction that was
(27:12):
controversial from the momentthat disc was released and,
frankly, a lot of us were nothappy with it.
So in many cases our Blu-rays,when they came out, let's say 10
, 12 years ago, they were thebest that they could be, and now
they can be even better in 4K,depending on the elements that
(27:36):
we're working with.
And this is just a case whereall the elements came together
to create something that isworthy of one of the greatest
American films of all time.
Tim Millard (27:49):
Right, well, were there any challenges that were
unique to this release that wehaven't talked about?
Miles DelHoyo (27:59):
Miles, Like I said earlier, the main challenge
was the fading of the print andhow we had to restore that from
the YCM being a source of truthto help bring back those color
channels, especially the blueone.
There were definitelyage-related artifacts in the
(28:21):
negative that had to be cleanedup, probably more so than the
average because of its age, withrespect to dirt hair, some to
dirt hair, some wrinkling, andtrying to keep the image stable.
That was all done.
I think I'm trying to remembermy projects where we've gone
(28:44):
through so many already sincethen.
But I know, okay, I know onearea.
There was an issue about 11minutes in, I believe 11 minutes
maybe in change where in theoriginal negative the frame in a
particular shot and if Iremember correctly it's where
John Wayne is talking to theReverend Samuel Johnston played
(29:08):
by Ward Bond and it's kind of amedium close-up and they're just
standing there next to thetable in the cabin and they're
having a quick exchange.
It's just two quick shots, butthe frame was actually on the
negative, it was moved over abit and part of the frame that's
supposed to be on the left wasshowing up on the right, and so
(29:31):
it's an obvious error.
I mean obvious once we caughtit, but it predated the previous
transfer.
It's in the old transfer but itwas always in the negative.
That way, when we found that wewere able to properly
reposition the frame and takethe side that was on the
opposite end and move it to itscorrect position so that we're
(29:54):
able to restore that frame, Imean, I think that amounted to
maybe 20 seconds of a shot, butas little things like that, that
really makes it all worth it torestore these things to the
best possible condition thatthey can be and represent them
properly in the way that we knowthat the filmmakers intended to
(30:17):
have them.
Um, I suspect that the negativeat the time because it was an
eight perf negative, the way itwas cut.
There was a mistake and done inthat shot and maybe perf
perforation was cut slightly offin the wrong direction so it
carried over from the next shot,the other side of that, that
image.
But it was.
If you go and watch it you'llfind it.
(30:38):
If you look that in the oldtransfer, if you see that you'll
, you'll be able to identify.
But that was an area where youknow we we were challenged in
making sure that every frame wascorrect.
Once we saw that at thebeginning I think in the second
reel or first or second reel weknew we had to be very careful
for the rest of the project tomake sure everything lined up.
(30:58):
So we've been talking a lotabout the picture portion of the
restoration work.
I don't want to forget to toucha bit on the audio restoration
portion and for a lot of ourprojects well, for all of them
audio is just as important asthe picture and sometimes more
complex, given some of thesources and how they in and
(31:20):
digitizing them, and then,starting from the position of
going through the dialogue,music and effects independently
(31:44):
and listening through and makingsure that they're as clean as
possible, that we'rerepresenting them in the highest
fidelity.
This was a monoro originalrecording, so we maintained that
because it works well and itsounds great, there was no
reason to attempt any up-mixinghere.
But even with that being thecase that it is Monoro, we felt
(32:07):
that we were able to pull outenough information from the
original sources and by today'stools to create quite a
well-rounded experiencedynamically, with your
low-frequency effects and theother elements of dialogue are
nice and crisp and clear, whichis very important.
(32:29):
And then, of course the musicaland that rendition on how it
fills the room.
It sounds really really goodand we're quite happy over what
it has sounded in the past.
So there was quite a bit ofwork that was done on just the
audio restoration as well andwe're quite pleased with those
results.
Tim Millard (32:47):
Yeah, I mean, the Max Steiner score is so fabulous
and it adds so much.
Where in the process is thatdone?
Is that done at the end, or isthere people working on it while
the picture is being worked?
Miles DelHoyo (32:59):
on.
It's done in parallel prettymuch.
When we get a green light on aproject from our business teams
to go ahead and do therestoration, we include the
audio as well as the picture inthat work, as well as the
picture in that work.
We have a dedicated team thatdoes handle all this audio work
and doing similar to what thepicture side of the business
(33:19):
does is they're researching theelements and pulling them in and
doing a preservation approachto digitizing those elements and
then from there they'll pullthem in and, using today's
premium tools, they'll have amixer that does conforming and
then another one does cleanupand then, working together with
(33:41):
those two individuals, they'llproduce the best final print
master of the audio mix indigital file format which we
maintain in a lossless codecthat goes out on the disc to
give the consumer the bestpossible presentation or
experience of the sound withinthe audio track that comes out
(34:03):
on the disc.
Tim Millard (34:05):
So the picture is restored, remastered, the audio
is also restored, remastered.
Then it all comes together.
George, where does the approvalprocess?
How does that work?
Did the Film Foundation have apart in that as well?
George Feltenstein (34:24):
Well, I think Miles can speak to that
directly.
Miles DelHoyo (34:27):
I can speak to that as well.
Yeah, as George mentioned, wehave had a lot of quite a a few,
rather films that have beensponsored by the Film Foundation
.
So as part of the process withthem, we're in close
communication on where we are inthe project.
We send a preliminary render Iguess is the best term over to
(34:48):
them to review, them to review.
There are key folks at the FilmFoundation that will review
that and let us know theirfeedback, whether it's a thumbs
up or it's a question, and weapproach that very delicately
with them and make sure that itmeets all expectations.
So there's a couple of roundsof that at least.
(35:11):
That goes back and forth with.
With respect to the searchers,we actually went to a final
printout of this on 70mm andthat was unique to this project.
We also did the same for Northby Northwest, but we don't
typically do that for obviousreasons complexity and cost
(35:36):
reasons complexity and cost.
But with this one, given thatit adds such notoriety and such
importance in classic filmmakingthat there was a lot of desire
to have a 70 millimeter printmade and we made I think we did
two or three of them, but theFilm Foundation did come in and
review that print in full andsigned off on it.
So they in a sense, were ourcreative thumbs up, approval on
(35:59):
the final product and we'requite happy to be working with
them on all these projects thatwe do and it's been great so far
in seeing the results in thefinal deliverables and seeing
the results in the finaldeliverables.
Tim Millard (36:13):
Well, one of my highlights last year was going
to that TCM screening of that 70millimeter and, george, you
were there and that might havebeen the premier screening of
that 70 millimeter, but I knowit's also been shown here in LA
at the Egyptian and there's justnot a ton of theaters that have
(36:35):
the equipment or the ability toshow it in the 70 millimeter.
George Feltenstein (36:37):
And that's where the 4K DCP comes in.
Yeah, true, I am like I wouldjust say.
I would say it's accurate tosay I'm probably one of the
world's most fervent 70millimeter fans, and I have been
since childhood.
That being said, I think thebest way to see it in a theater
(37:00):
is the 4K DCP, because with thefilm out, you're creating
another generation away andthere's a lot of sizzle to 70
millimeter coming from that.
But the 4K DCP is giving youright what was on the negative
and what Jan and the team atWarner brothers motion picture
(37:22):
averaging did with that, andthat's the closest you're going
to get, with the exception ofbeing the negative.
Right.
You're there, um and it.
It speaks to the amazingquality of VistaVision, and I've
been a big VistaVision fan fora long time too.
My VistaVision t-shirt isstarting to get a little worn
(37:43):
out, so I'm going to have to geta new one.
I really have one, and you canget them on Amazon plug.
But, in all honesty, we're soproud and thrilled with the
response that we've gotten tothis release and we'll be
(38:04):
announcing our next 4K releaseprobably within the next month
or so, within the next month orso.
Tim Millard (38:21):
And I'm hoping it will get an equal sense of
enthusiasm from our fans.
Yeah, this has been great,miles, george, letting us kind
of get in behind the scenes hereabout the process and the.
You know, not everybody willunderstand the words that you
said, but the hardcore collector, people who are really into the
restoration, are going to lovehearing the specifics of what
went into this title.
(38:42):
And for the casual fan, it'sjust great to hear about the
quality and the great work andthe commitment there at Warner
Brothers, through people likeyourself, miles, and you, george
, to bring this to the fans.
And it's been wonderful to seethe embrace from the fans, from
the film community, from thefilmmakers who are also just
(39:03):
fans of this film so many ofthem love this 4K as well.
Miles DelHoyo (39:26):
Thanks, tim, to do a project of this scale.
Thanks, tim.
Several levels of qualityassurance checks and that takes,
in and of itself, a lot of time.
Like I said, we go through awhole digital restoration
process to check every frame atthe pixel level to make sure
that we've cleaned up any littledirt or if there's a digital
artifact that's also addressed.
(39:47):
We have several pages long ofQC notes for a quality control
QC, several pages long of QCnotes for a quality control QC,
and we go through a third partycheck process.
So it's not just a group ofinternal guys with the same eyes
looking at over and over.
We have other eyes and manytimes they have other eyes.
I just wanted to note that,from a quality assurance
(40:07):
standpoint, we take it veryseriously and we try very hard
to make it bulletproof as bestas you can.
These projects.
They will probably live in thisfashion for many, many years to
come, and so it's important tous to make sure that they live
in the best possible qualitythat we can get them at, and
(40:30):
that's where we have all thesepeople involved.
So thank you for your kindwords, but I have to also give
credit to a huge team of peoplewith many, many hours that were
put into making this as good asit has been, and we're very,
quite pleased and grateful thatGeorge and his business was able
(40:50):
to get it out and that it hasfavorable response and his
business was able to get it outand that it has favorable
response.
Tim Millard (40:55):
Well, george, as you mentioned, there should be
more 4k coming soon from theWarner archive, so I'm looking
forward to that and seeing allthe great work that miles you've
done or are doing on thesereleases.
So thanks for coming on thepodcast, thank you Tim.
Thank you Tim and thank youMiles for joining us.
Thanks, george, yeah.
George Feltenstein (41:12):
Always a pleasure.
It's podcast.
Thank you Tim, thank you Timand thank you Myles for joining
us.
Miles DelHoyo (41:15):
Thanks, george.
Yeah, always a pleasure, it wasfun.
Good to see you.
Yep, take care.
Tim Millard (41:25):
Well, that was fascinating.
I hope you enjoyed it as muchas I did.
I know a number of people haveasked for us to bring on more
people who work behind thescenes on these Blu-ray and now,
4k releases, and I'm hopingthis was the first of many so
that you can look forward tomore of these in the future.
If you haven't yet purchasedyour copy of the Searchers on 4K
or Blu-ray, I highly encourageyou to do so.
(41:47):
If you buy the 4K, you also getthe remastered Blu-ray with all
of the extras, so it's a greatpackage, and, of course, you can
also purchase the remasteredBlu-ray on its own as well.
There is a purchase link in theshow notes, so you can look for
those there If you've alreadypurchased the new 4K.
We do want to keep the word outon this terrific release, and
(42:07):
one way you can help do that isby voting in the MediaPlay Home
Entertainment Awards.
The Searchers is nominated in anumber of categories, including
Best Restoration and Best Audioand Visual Quality, so please
vote for it in those twocategories.
I don't think it's listed onthe Best 4K of the Year, but
there is an area where you canwrite in your vote, so that's
(42:30):
what I did there, as I do thinkit's the best 4K release of the
year, so I hope you'll do thatas well.
Voting does end March 31st, soyou'll need to get on this right
away.
The link is in the podcast shownotes.
Click it as soon as you're ableand get your votes in.
If you aren't yet subscribed orfollowing the show at your
favorite podcast provider, youmay want to do that, and that
(42:51):
way you won't miss the upcomingannouncement about what the next
4k release is going to be fromthe Warner archive.
So I'm looking forward to that,and it shouldn't be too long
before we get that.
Until next time you've beenlistening to Tim Millard.
Stay slightly obsessed, you.
Hello and welcome to the Extras.
I'm Tim Lard, your host, andjoining me are George
Feltenstein and Myles Del Hoyofrom Warner Brothers.
Hi guys, hi, hey Tim.
George Feltenstein (00:17):
Hey Tim.
Tim Millard (00:19):
Myles, we worked together for all those years.
I was there, but I haven't seenyou in so long, so it's good to
see you, it's good to see youtoo.
Miles DelHoyo (00:27):
It's been a while .
Tim Millard (00:29):
Yeah, and from the looks of the background there's
nobody else there either.
Miles DelHoyo (00:34):
A lot of layups over there.
Yeah Well, that's part of it,but I'm fortunate to be in a
private space at the moment, soit's great to have that privacy
as we discuss this.
Tim Millard (00:44):
Yeah, yeah, good private space at the moment, so
it's great to have that privacyas we discuss this.
Yeah, yeah, good.
Well, our listeners are veryfamiliar with George, so I
wanted to start with you, miles,and just have you give us a
little background on what it isthat you do there at Warner
Brothers.
Miles DelHoyo (00:57):
Okay, that's a loaded question.
So I've been at Warner Brothersfor 15 years and through that
time I've had the privilege ofbeing at the forefront of a lot
of new technical advancements inthe industry for entertainment,
video and audio, and mybackground has been mostly in
(01:18):
that before joining WarnerBrothers, so it was great to
continue that as part of mycareer path.
Most recently, though, I'vebeen heavily involved in
restoration work, namely filmrestoration for catalog
theatrical films, and that'sbeen a great opportunity for me
(01:41):
to be able to dive into some ofthese classics and and even some
lesser known classics that uhwere able to breathe new life
into them in the 4k with highdynamic range, um color grading
and they just look amazing.
To be able to see these films,uh in that light and to to
(02:01):
experience them all over again,which, uh, in many cases, feels
like cases feels like it's freshand brand new and you're
catching and seeing things thatyou never really appreciated
before because you couldn'tRight and now you can.
So, yeah, but my background hasbeen very much in audio video
technology and, with theadvancements in today's display
technologies, which has justgone leaps and bounds in, just
(02:23):
like the last 10 years, Displaytechnologies, which has just
gone leaps and bounds in, justlike the last 10 years, and with
how we can experience andappreciate movies and television
as well and other entertainmentcontent at home on displays,
(02:44):
whether it's a dedicated hometheater or even mobile.
So these displays are quiteadvanced to be able to show
probably more detail than somepeople would like you to see.
And that's where you know,mastering comes in to make sure
that it's curated properly andthat it looks the way it should.
And so that's my job right nowis to help supervise, if not
oversee, that process from startto finish and the finishing
being going out to market so theconsumers can enjoy it.
Tim Millard (03:07):
Right, and when I was there, I worked in the home
entertainment side for theextras.
But what is the group thatyou're actually a part of?
What's the official name?
Miles DelHoyo (03:18):
Well, my immediate group is a small
department.
It's called Emerging Formatsand Mastering and Mastering is a
small department.
It's called emerging uh formatsand mastering and mastering and
, yeah, and we fall within thelarger umbrella post-production
creative services.
So we're happy to be a part ofthat larger group because it
really uh speaks to the pointthat our focus is on creation
and, uh, creative intent, to bespecific, and we, we safeguard
(03:42):
that um uh feverishly.
You know that's somethingthat's very important.
Right for us to make sure thatthat we, we safeguard that um uh
feverishly.
You know that's somethingthat's very important for us.
To make sure that that we arein line with the artistic vision
and uh, and that's that's.
That's something that I knowthe fans appreciate too,
especially when it comes torestoring classic film.
So, um, we're all in line withthat.
Tim Millard (04:01):
Well, George, we're here to talk about the
Searcher's 4K, which was thefirst 4K release from the Warner
Archive, and it's been a hugesuccess.
Maybe you could take us back,George, to working with Miles
and some of the background onhow the Searcher's 4K came to be
a Warner Archive release.
George Feltenstein (04:20):
Well, the great thing is is that when the
restoration work began underMiles' supervision, there was no
finite plan on how it was goingto be released and there were
(04:41):
some big projects being donepretty much simultaneously.
Miles, you can clarify if I'mwrong, but I believe North by
Northwest and the searchers weredone very close together.
Is that accurate?
Miles DelHoyo (04:56):
Yeah, very concurrent.
They were going at the sametime with different colorists
and operators involved in theprocess, with different colors
and operators involved in theprocess.
But yeah, we started those bothlate 2023.
Yeah, together.
George Feltenstein (05:11):
And both of these titles were with the
promotional and substantialemotional support of the Film
Foundation, as Warner Brothersand the Film Foundation worked
very closely together on severalinitiatives, so both of these
(05:31):
were in play at the time andwhen it came time for release,
my colleagues and I all talkabout what we're going to do
with various 4K titles.
Miles is part of thoseconversations as well, and
everyone thought that they wouldtake North by Northwest out
(05:52):
through traditional retail, butthat Warner Archive could have
its first shot at a 4K with thesearchers.
And for me, the searchers andfor me, the gratifying part
about that is not only that I'm,like many people, such a
(06:17):
passionate fan of the film, butI was incredibly moved by the
excellence of the restorationthat Miles and colorist Jan
Yarborough at Motion PictureImaging Warner Brothers Motion
Picture Imaging their work onthe film and their work on the
audio as well, because pictureand sound are of equal
importance.
And it was such an honor to beable to bring this film to 4K
(06:40):
HDR in a 4K Blu-ray combo with abeautiful slip sleeve, two
hours of extras, and that wehave the original key art.
Actually that came from the UKcampaign, but not some altered
(07:01):
version of how to represent thefilm.
I'm a firm believer in originalkey art if it's good, and
that's why we went with the UKkey art and not the US key art,
because the US poster has alittle bit of floating heads and
some things that wouldn't bequite right for a cover and it's
(07:22):
what's inside the discultimately that counts.
And the 4k has been authored byfidelity in motion so that it
had a huge bit rate and we tookgreat pride in it.
And miles really led the chargeto be able to work internally
so that we could take a lot ofthe standard definition to work
(07:47):
internally, so that we couldtake a lot of the standard
definition originally standarddefinition enhanced content
pieces and have them upconverted to high definition on
the Blu-ray disc so that theywould look as good as they could
, because the material, thesepieces that were made a lot of
them were so impressive that wedidn't want them to be left
(08:10):
behind because they weren'tstandard definition.
So Miles had a great deal to do, not just with overseeing the
mastering of the movie and thecolor correction and the audio,
but he also made incalculablecontributions to the overall
presentation and for that I'mvery grateful.
Miles DelHoyo (08:32):
Yeah it was a fun little project to work on.
I mean I say that now, but itwas definitely a doozy during
the time because there were somany moving pieces and there
were several complexitiesinvolved in making it look as
good as it did.
But the bonus or the specialfeatures were a part of that, as
George mentioned, and takingthose which we had the best
(08:55):
quality sources available asinterlaced standard definition
video content, we wanted to putthose on the disc in a more
favorable quality that wouldlend itself closer towards the
quality we were trying toachieve for the feature.
So we did that and it came outlooking great.
We have some state-of-the-arttools that are proprietary at
(09:18):
the studio and some really,really smart people that I get
the benefit of work with thatwere involved in making that
happen.
So we're very pleased with theend results on the disc.
For anybody who has that, Ihope they enjoy it because it
you know a lot of attention wentinto making every aspect of
that disc look as good as itdoes.
Tim Millard (09:39):
And I'm extremely appreciative since I worked in
the creation of the extras, noton this title but on other
titles that you guys went tothat extra work of making sure
that it looked great for thefans out there.
And, George, I think that's oneof the positive things that
people have said about therelease is that you packed it
with all of those extras and youdid go to the efforts to make
(10:02):
it look so good so that the fanscan really kind of replace what
they had before with this,especially the combo pack right,
the 4K with Blu-ray.
George Feltenstein (10:12):
We always try to carry over legacy content
in our Blu-rays and this was a4K where the only thing on the
4K disc is the Peter Bogdanovichcommentary.
But we also have the Blu-rayavailable, not just in the combo
(10:35):
pack, which is where the extrafeatures lie, but we made a new
Blu-ray available to those whohave not yet made the move to 4K
, because our previous Blu-ray,which is almost 20 years old, is
very much worth replacing.
I'll leave it at that Right andthe difference is so dramatic.
(11:02):
We're very, very proud of thework and I'm so grateful that
this has all come together andwe will have only a handful of
4K releases coming from WarnerArchive, but they will be very,
very special films.
Tim Millard (11:20):
I did want to take the listeners a little behind
the scenes here into yourprocess.
If that's okay, Myles, Sure,I'll try to speak to what I can
yeah, just what you can speak to.
But when you see these titlescome to you and you know you're
going to be working on them,what is kind of the workflow
(11:41):
process?
Kind of the workflow process?
Tell us a little bit about whatyou do to put this into place
as you're going forward and youmake out your schedule of this
work.
Miles DelHoyo (11:53):
Sure, the process does start identifying the
master and all available piecesthat go towards creating, or
recreating, if you will, theentire picture.
We have a whole team that'sthat has the responsibility in
our archive archival group toinvestigate, research, identify
(12:17):
and pull in the best availablesource elements and as part of
our preservation strategy, thatteam pulls in these elements
very carefully, checks themthrough with certified
facilities and processes tosafeguard them.
Then they'll be scanned, thesefilm elements, into a digital
(12:40):
intermediate file format whichthen becomes our source where we
start the downstream digitalrestoration process of creating
the 4K and HDR and putting itout to a screen format that is
applicable by today's standards.
So it does start there, I wouldsay the research and quality
(13:04):
check process probably is I mean, depending on the title,
anywhere from four to eightweeks, and then we get into the
scanning process, which couldtake easily another four to six
weeks, and that's before we evenstart getting it into cleanup
(13:50):
and color correction and thosedownstream steps, which they
have their own timeline aboutfour to five months of work from
when we investigate to when wecomplete and quality check, a
final master that can then besent to the disk authoring
vendor facility to do the workto create the disk image and put
that out to market.
In addition, we also make itavailable for streaming through
digital.
But from that point to where westart to making it available for
distribution, it's about, youknow, I would say, average four
(14:10):
months, and we've had titlesthat have taken longer, and I
only make note of that becausethe ones that take longer
typically involve some form oftalent, a talent we typically
would involve filmmakers,whether it's a director or
(14:31):
director of photography or evenan editor, because, like I said
earlier, the creative intent ismost important to us and there
is a lot of subjectivity, if youwill, in what we do, especially
when we get into color, if youwill, and what we do when,
especially when we get intocolor.
Uh, we do have references thatwe follow, but sometimes you
can't beat, uh, in most casesyou can't beat the uh, the
(14:51):
definitive reference, which isthe people who made the film to
begin with, um, and in manycases that's the director or the
director of photography.
So when they are involved, itcan, um, make our timelines a
bit longer than that, but that'salways a good thing and we
appreciate their involvement.
Tim Millard (15:08):
George, I remember we talked about, you know, the
searchers and how this newversion has the colors correct,
so to speak.
George Feltenstein (15:17):
Right, yes, the sky is blue, not yellow.
Tim Millard (15:21):
Exactly so I think you know, just to follow up with
Miles' comment there, when thefilmmakers aren't there, how did
you guys go about that?
Miles DelHoyo (15:29):
uh, making sure that these colors were correct
yeah, well, uh, I mean, there'sa lot of common sense with
respect to some of that stuff,you know you want.
you want things to look like youwould expect them to.
Skies are typically blue unlessyou have some sort of um
armageddon fallout happening.
But in the case of of thesearchers, there was a lot of
common sense.
We did have existing printsthey for reference and um, we
(15:54):
had I'll just say this becausewe didn't have a filmmaker
involvement, because they're notavailable, obviously.
Uh, this was 1956 and john johnJohn Ford is not with us.
But we did have the benefit ofhaving our senior, most
experienced colorist on theproject, mr Jan Yarbrough, and
he's been at Warner Brothers forover 30 years, I'm sure, in the
(16:18):
capacity in which he has workedin color correction.
So he is extremely talented andthere was no doubt in my mind
that having him on the job wouldyield the best results and he
did take his time to get it doneright.
We'd go back and we would getinvolved and question things and
we'd make sure that no stonewas unturned, to say that, to
(16:44):
use that term.
But back to the previoustransfer.
It's a little bit of historythere.
So, as George mentioned, it wasalmost 20 years ago.
I think 2006 was when thatfirst transfer was done for high
definition, the early days ofHD distribution and this film
(17:05):
has an original camera negativethat had faded with respect to
its color retention, so thecolor of the dye within the
actual negative had deterioratedquite a bit.
And so there were what we callprotection prints that were made
YCM separations yellow, cyanand magenta and the way those
(17:30):
are done is they're done in kindof a grayscale output to
register both of those threeprimary colors.
And so those were used.
Those YCM separation protectionprints were used in 2006 and
scanned at 6K on inferiorscanners at the time to create
that transfer.
And I would expect that,because of the source used and
(17:51):
some of the deficiencies at thetime and other aspects that were
involved, attributed to a lessthan premium quality or even,
you know, a logical quality thatwe would want to say is of
today's standards.
It just didn't happen.
(18:12):
The sky was, I think, anunfortunate side effect of that.
But today we have superiorscanners, we have a brand new
one that we just used on thisproject to where we were able to
scan an ultra high resolution,because this is VistaVision.
We scanned the eight perforationframe in two pieces, four perf
(18:38):
and four perf.
So we took a frame and wescanned it in half, and each
half was scanned at roughly 10K.
So you're looking at 10K by 7K.
Vertical is roughly 76 millionpixels.
So we had a lot of area that wewere able to cover in our
(18:59):
digital intermediate file, whichwasn't there in 2006.
It's no more than a 6K and thatwas for the entire film frame
of the eight perf.
So if you double that, you knowyou're looking at over 150
million pixels, because thatfour perf and the four perf
together, making the singleVistaVision eight perf frame,
(19:19):
was a lot of pixels and theresults were just tremendous,
and so that was the first stepin gathering this together and
making it a success.
We also had the benefit of newtechnology to where we were able
to have a refined stitchingprocess to take the half of each
one of those eight perforationframes and stitch them together
(19:40):
digitally to make a seamlesssingle frame image that you have
now today.
And we did that in a six and ahalf K resolution stitching
process, which was the maximumwe could do for the stitching
tool, and then ultimately endedup color grading in six and a
half K and then downscaled totoday's 4K format from that.
(20:02):
My point in sharing all that isthat it's just the technology is
so much better now just fromthe scanning point of view.
We're able to yield such greaterresults by having so much more
information pulled from thenegative.
In addition, we also re-scanthose ycm separation masters to
get as much of what we could outof both available sources.
(20:27):
Uh, the blue channel in the inthe original negative had the
worst effect of of deterioration.
So that was one area where,using the blue channel from the
ycm scan, we were able torestore and bring back uh quite
a bit of that blue which againprobably attributed to most
(20:49):
likely attributed to betterlooking skies and other areas of
the film that blue right blueon on the shirts uh and the
clothing and other areas you cansee.
There's one scene that I reallylike where um ethan uh played
by uh john wayne, he's holdingup his war medal, the civil war
war medal, and he's showing itto his uh, his niece, um, and
(21:14):
that image, just a close-up,it's just such high fidelity and
and beautiful color and you cansee very clearly everything
that was in that original cameracapture was able to be restored
by today's technology.
So that was.
That just again proves thattechnology is everything when it
comes to these restorations,and we have the benefit of
(21:36):
having superior technology thatwe've never had before to do it.
Tim Millard (21:39):
Right, and if I have it correct, did you say you
did a 10K scan.
Miles DelHoyo (21:47):
Yeah, yeah, so the scanner allowed for a 10K 4
perf scan.
This is 35 millimeterVistaVision, so it's 8 perf,
which, if you think of it, it'sa 35 millimeter standard, but
it's captured horizontallyrather than vertically through a
camera, right, right, it'sroughly two and a half times
(22:11):
more the negative that we canscan from.
So we wanted to capture as muchof that as possible and retain
the fine grain structure that'sin the VistaVision film negative
.
So the only way we could dothat by today's standards is to
take every frame, which is eightperfs, and split that in half,
(22:34):
so a standard four perf frame ofthe eight perfs.
So each half was scanned ataround 10K and then stitched
together and the stitchingprocess yielded a 6.5K after
cropping and properly formattingit to what we needed for the
final color.
Tim Millard (22:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's partly why it must
look so good.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Miles DelHoyo (22:59):
And you know, arguably in 2006, when you just
had HD as your final output, youprobably wouldn't notice that
as much, but by 4K and HDR youdefinitely want to start with an
image of that caliber, of thatquality, because we're really
enhancing the pixels in the highdynamic range where your lights
(23:20):
, mid-tones and highlights areall visible on the screen at the
same time, and being able tohave all of that pulled from the
original negative during thescanning process at such high
fidelity is very important tothat process when we get to HDR,
to make it look as good as itdoes.
Tim Millard (23:36):
Outside of what you just said about doing the split
, was there any otherinteresting things that the
VistaVision required for thisrestoration remaster.
Miles DelHoyo (23:49):
Well, I mentioned the split and the stitching Um.
(24:18):
Well, I mentioned the split andthe stitching Um, I think,
everything for our archive andpreservation so that we retain
the most information from thatfilm print and then we carry
that into the HDR process.
So I think, beyond thestitching aspect the split frame
stitching process everythingelse pretty much follows suit
with how we handle a standardproject.
Tim Millard (24:39):
Right?
Well, and because you startedwith such a high you know 10K
then you bring it down, like yousaid, and you stitch it
together at the 6K.
The Blu-ray also reallybenefits from that as well,
right?
Miles DelHoyo (24:52):
Oh for sure.
Yeah, the Blu-ray becomes aderivative of our master source.
Our master source, at finish,when we render out from the
color session, is in 4K, ultrahigh def.
So that's 3840 by 2160 pixels,it's roughly 8 million pixels on
your screen.
On your screen, and this, um, Ithink this, uh was a 185 aspect
(25:19):
ratio.
So we're, we're showing theentire image, um, and at that
resolution on your display.
Yeah, and when it goes to astandard blu-ray, we we do
what's called a color trim tothe rec 709 color gamut for
legacy display color standardsin HDTV and in 1080p.
So you get definitely adownscaled version of the higher
(25:43):
resolution, but you retain allthe information by downscaling
rather than upscaling.
That's inherent in the originalsource that is optimized for
that legacy display, inclusiveof the color benefits.
So we are color grading in amuch larger color volume and the
(26:03):
benefits of that are found aswe trim from larger volume or
larger box down to the smallervolume or box which is your
Rec.709 Gamut for standardlegacy displays.
Tim Millard (26:15):
And I wanted to point that out because there are
still a lot of people wholisten to this podcast and watch
us on YouTube who have notupgraded to 4K.
And it's just a great point tosay this new remastered Blu-ray
is going to give you a muchbetter picture and sound than
the previous Blu-ray.
So even if you have the Blu-rayand you think, well, I already
have it on Blu-ray is going togive you a much better picture
and sound than the previousBlu-ray.
So even if you have the Blu-rayand you think, well, I already
(26:36):
have it on Blu-ray, there is ahuge benefit to this one.
So even if you say, well,that's all nice and good about
the 4K, there is a huge benefitfor just getting the newer
Blu-ray as well, right, george?
George Feltenstein (26:50):
Yes, and that goes without saying, and
because of the work that wasdone here to Miles' good point
of earlier.
The technology of when the lastBlu-ray was made, almost 20
years ago, of the searchers waslimited in so many ways.
But there was also revisionistcolor correction that was
(27:12):
controversial from the momentthat disc was released and,
frankly, a lot of us were nothappy with it.
So in many cases our Blu-rays,when they came out, let's say 10
, 12 years ago, they were thebest that they could be, and now
they can be even better in 4K,depending on the elements that
(27:36):
we're working with.
And this is just a case whereall the elements came together
to create something that isworthy of one of the greatest
American films of all time.
Tim Millard (27:49):
Right, well, were there any challenges that were
unique to this release that wehaven't talked about?
Miles DelHoyo (27:59):
Miles, Like I said earlier, the main challenge
was the fading of the print andhow we had to restore that from
the YCM being a source of truthto help bring back those color
channels, especially the blueone.
There were definitelyage-related artifacts in the
(28:21):
negative that had to be cleanedup, probably more so than the
average because of its age, withrespect to dirt hair, some to
dirt hair, some wrinkling, andtrying to keep the image stable.
That was all done.
I think I'm trying to remembermy projects where we've gone
(28:44):
through so many already sincethen.
But I know, okay, I know onearea.
There was an issue about 11minutes in, I believe 11 minutes
maybe in change where in theoriginal negative the frame in a
particular shot and if Iremember correctly it's where
John Wayne is talking to theReverend Samuel Johnston played
(29:08):
by Ward Bond and it's kind of amedium close-up and they're just
standing there next to thetable in the cabin and they're
having a quick exchange.
It's just two quick shots, butthe frame was actually on the
negative, it was moved over abit and part of the frame that's
supposed to be on the left wasshowing up on the right, and so
(29:31):
it's an obvious error.
I mean obvious once we caughtit, but it predated the previous
transfer.
It's in the old transfer but itwas always in the negative.
That way, when we found that wewere able to properly
reposition the frame and takethe side that was on the
opposite end and move it to itscorrect position so that we're
(29:54):
able to restore that frame, Imean, I think that amounted to
maybe 20 seconds of a shot, butas little things like that, that
really makes it all worth it torestore these things to the
best possible condition thatthey can be and represent them
properly in the way that we knowthat the filmmakers intended to
(30:17):
have them.
Um, I suspect that the negativeat the time because it was an
eight perf negative, the way itwas cut.
There was a mistake and done inthat shot and maybe perf
perforation was cut slightly offin the wrong direction so it
carried over from the next shot,the other side of that, that
image.
But it was.
If you go and watch it you'llfind it.
(30:38):
If you look that in the oldtransfer, if you see that you'll
, you'll be able to identify.
But that was an area where youknow we we were challenged in
making sure that every frame wascorrect.
Once we saw that at thebeginning I think in the second
reel or first or second reel weknew we had to be very careful
for the rest of the project tomake sure everything lined up.
(30:58):
So we've been talking a lotabout the picture portion of the
restoration work.
I don't want to forget to toucha bit on the audio restoration
portion and for a lot of ourprojects well, for all of them
audio is just as important asthe picture and sometimes more
complex, given some of thesources and how they in and
(31:20):
digitizing them, and then,starting from the position of
going through the dialogue,music and effects independently
(31:44):
and listening through and makingsure that they're as clean as
possible, that we'rerepresenting them in the highest
fidelity.
This was a monoro originalrecording, so we maintained that
because it works well and itsounds great, there was no
reason to attempt any up-mixinghere.
But even with that being thecase that it is Monoro, we felt
(32:07):
that we were able to pull outenough information from the
original sources and by today'stools to create quite a
well-rounded experiencedynamically, with your
low-frequency effects and theother elements of dialogue are
nice and crisp and clear, whichis very important.
(32:29):
And then, of course the musicaland that rendition on how it
fills the room.
It sounds really really goodand we're quite happy over what
it has sounded in the past.
So there was quite a bit ofwork that was done on just the
audio restoration as well andwe're quite pleased with those
results.
Tim Millard (32:47):
Yeah, I mean, the Max Steiner score is so fabulous
and it adds so much.
Where in the process is thatdone?
Is that done at the end, or isthere people working on it while
the picture is being worked?
Miles DelHoyo (32:59):
on.
It's done in parallel prettymuch.
When we get a green light on aproject from our business teams
to go ahead and do therestoration, we include the
audio as well as the picture inthat work, as well as the
picture in that work.
We have a dedicated team thatdoes handle all this audio work
and doing similar to what thepicture side of the business
(33:19):
does is they're researching theelements and pulling them in and
doing a preservation approachto digitizing those elements and
then from there they'll pullthem in and, using today's
premium tools, they'll have amixer that does conforming and
then another one does cleanupand then, working together with
(33:41):
those two individuals, they'llproduce the best final print
master of the audio mix indigital file format which we
maintain in a lossless codecthat goes out on the disc to
give the consumer the bestpossible presentation or
experience of the sound withinthe audio track that comes out
(34:03):
on the disc.
Tim Millard (34:05):
So the picture is restored, remastered, the audio
is also restored, remastered.
Then it all comes together.
George, where does the approvalprocess?
How does that work?
Did the Film Foundation have apart in that as well?
George Feltenstein (34:24):
Well, I think Miles can speak to that
directly.
Miles DelHoyo (34:27):
I can speak to that as well.
Yeah, as George mentioned, wehave had a lot of quite a a few,
rather films that have beensponsored by the Film Foundation
.
So as part of the process withthem, we're in close
communication on where we are inthe project.
We send a preliminary render Iguess is the best term over to
(34:48):
them to review, them to review.
There are key folks at the FilmFoundation that will review
that and let us know theirfeedback, whether it's a thumbs
up or it's a question, and weapproach that very delicately
with them and make sure that itmeets all expectations.
So there's a couple of roundsof that at least.
(35:11):
That goes back and forth with.
With respect to the searchers,we actually went to a final
printout of this on 70mm andthat was unique to this project.
We also did the same for Northby Northwest, but we don't
typically do that for obviousreasons complexity and cost
(35:36):
reasons complexity and cost.
But with this one, given thatit adds such notoriety and such
importance in classic filmmakingthat there was a lot of desire
to have a 70 millimeter printmade and we made I think we did
two or three of them, but theFilm Foundation did come in and
review that print in full andsigned off on it.
So they in a sense, were ourcreative thumbs up, approval on
(35:59):
the final product and we'requite happy to be working with
them on all these projects thatwe do and it's been great so far
in seeing the results in thefinal deliverables and seeing
the results in the finaldeliverables.
Tim Millard (36:13):
Well, one of my highlights last year was going
to that TCM screening of that 70millimeter and, george, you
were there and that might havebeen the premier screening of
that 70 millimeter, but I knowit's also been shown here in LA
at the Egyptian and there's justnot a ton of theaters that have
(36:35):
the equipment or the ability toshow it in the 70 millimeter.
George Feltenstein (36:37):
And that's where the 4K DCP comes in.
Yeah, true, I am like I wouldjust say.
I would say it's accurate tosay I'm probably one of the
world's most fervent 70millimeter fans, and I have been
since childhood.
That being said, I think thebest way to see it in a theater
(37:00):
is the 4K DCP, because with thefilm out, you're creating
another generation away andthere's a lot of sizzle to 70
millimeter coming from that.
But the 4K DCP is giving youright what was on the negative
and what Jan and the team atWarner brothers motion picture
(37:22):
averaging did with that, andthat's the closest you're going
to get, with the exception ofbeing the negative.
Right.
You're there, um and it.
It speaks to the amazingquality of VistaVision, and I've
been a big VistaVision fan fora long time too.
My VistaVision t-shirt isstarting to get a little worn
(37:43):
out, so I'm going to have to geta new one.
I really have one, and you canget them on Amazon plug.
But, in all honesty, we're soproud and thrilled with the
response that we've gotten tothis release and we'll be
(38:04):
announcing our next 4K releaseprobably within the next month
or so, within the next month orso.
Tim Millard (38:21):
And I'm hoping it will get an equal sense of
enthusiasm from our fans.
Yeah, this has been great,miles, george, letting us kind
of get in behind the scenes hereabout the process and the.
You know, not everybody willunderstand the words that you
said, but the hardcore collector, people who are really into the
restoration, are going to lovehearing the specifics of what
went into this title.
(38:42):
And for the casual fan, it'sjust great to hear about the
quality and the great work andthe commitment there at Warner
Brothers, through people likeyourself, miles, and you, george
, to bring this to the fans.
And it's been wonderful to seethe embrace from the fans, from
the film community, from thefilmmakers who are also just
(39:03):
fans of this film so many ofthem love this 4K as well.
Miles DelHoyo (39:26):
Thanks, tim, to do a project of this scale.
Thanks, tim.
Several levels of qualityassurance checks and that takes,
in and of itself, a lot of time.
Like I said, we go through awhole digital restoration
process to check every frame atthe pixel level to make sure
that we've cleaned up any littledirt or if there's a digital
artifact that's also addressed.
(39:47):
We have several pages long ofQC notes for a quality control
QC, several pages long of QCnotes for a quality control QC,
and we go through a third partycheck process.
So it's not just a group ofinternal guys with the same eyes
looking at over and over.
We have other eyes and manytimes they have other eyes.
I just wanted to note that,from a quality assurance
(40:07):
standpoint, we take it veryseriously and we try very hard
to make it bulletproof as bestas you can.
These projects.
They will probably live in thisfashion for many, many years to
come, and so it's important tous to make sure that they live
in the best possible qualitythat we can get them at, and
(40:30):
that's where we have all thesepeople involved.
So thank you for your kindwords, but I have to also give
credit to a huge team of peoplewith many, many hours that were
put into making this as good asit has been, and we're very,
quite pleased and grateful thatGeorge and his business was able
(40:50):
to get it out and that it hasfavorable response and his
business was able to get it outand that it has favorable
response.
Tim Millard (40:55):
Well, george, as you mentioned, there should be
more 4k coming soon from theWarner archive, so I'm looking
forward to that and seeing allthe great work that miles you've
done or are doing on thesereleases.
So thanks for coming on thepodcast, thank you Tim.
Thank you Tim and thank youMiles for joining us.
Thanks, george, yeah.
George Feltenstein (41:12):
Always a pleasure.
It's podcast.
Thank you Tim, thank you Timand thank you Myles for joining
us.
Miles DelHoyo (41:15):
Thanks, george.
Yeah, always a pleasure, it wasfun.
Good to see you.
Yep, take care.
Tim Millard (41:25):
Well, that was fascinating.
I hope you enjoyed it as muchas I did.
I know a number of people haveasked for us to bring on more
people who work behind thescenes on these Blu-ray and now,
4k releases, and I'm hopingthis was the first of many so
that you can look forward tomore of these in the future.
If you haven't yet purchasedyour copy of the Searchers on 4K
or Blu-ray, I highly encourageyou to do so.
(41:47):
If you buy the 4K, you also getthe remastered Blu-ray with all
of the extras, so it's a greatpackage, and, of course, you can
also purchase the remasteredBlu-ray on its own as well.
There is a purchase link in theshow notes, so you can look for
those there If you've alreadypurchased the new 4K.
We do want to keep the word outon this terrific release, and
(42:07):
one way you can help do that isby voting in the MediaPlay Home
Entertainment Awards.
The Searchers is nominated in anumber of categories, including
Best Restoration and Best Audioand Visual Quality, so please
vote for it in those twocategories.
I don't think it's listed onthe Best 4K of the Year, but
there is an area where you canwrite in your vote, so that's
(42:30):
what I did there, as I do thinkit's the best 4K release of the
year, so I hope you'll do thatas well.
Voting does end March 31st, soyou'll need to get on this right
away.
The link is in the podcast shownotes.
Click it as soon as you're ableand get your votes in.
If you aren't yet subscribed orfollowing the show at your
favorite podcast provider, youmay want to do that, and that
(42:51):
way you won't miss the upcomingannouncement about what the next
4k release is going to be fromthe Warner archive.
So I'm looking forward to that,and it shouldn't be too long
before we get that.
Until next time you've beenlistening to Tim Millard.
Stay slightly obsessed, you.
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