October 17, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of The Eye-Q Podcast, Dr. Rudrani Banik chats with physical therapist and ergonomics expert Margie Bissinger about how posture and workstation setup influence eye health. Learn the science behind digital eye strain, discover small adjustments that prevent fatigue and headaches, and find out how simple awareness can protect your vision and body during long hours at the computer.
Margie Bissinger is a physical therapist, integrative health coach, author, and happiness trainer. Margie has over 25 years of experience helping people with osteoporosis and osteopenia improve their bone health through a comprehensive integrative approach. She hosts the Happy Bones, Happy Life Podcast and has hosted four summits on Natural Approaches to Osteoporosis and Bone Health.
Margie believes that happiness plays an integral role in our bone and overall health. She has been teaching her patients and class participants happiness habits for over 40 years and has seen the powerful effects happiness has on chronic pain and recovery.
Margie has lectured to Fortune 500 companies, government agencies, hospitals, and women’s groups throughout the country. She has been featured in the New York Times, Menopause Management, OB GYN News and contributed to numerous health and fitness books. lives.
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Website: https://margiebissinger.com/
Podcast Website: https://margiebissinger.com/happy-bones-happy-life-podcast/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
One the rounded back, you want you when you're sitting, you
want to maintain the inward curve of your back.
You can do that either by if youhave to use a towel or all
whatever it is because you can feel if everybody tries to.
Round the back. Out you fall apart.
Welcome to the IQ Podcast. I'm Doctor Ronnie Bannock, here
(00:20):
to help you boost your IQ with powerful insights that connect
your eyes, your brain, and your whole body Wellness.
Welcome to today's session on the ihealth Summit.
I'm your host, Doctor Ronnie Bannock, and today I'm so
excited to welcome our guest, Margie Bissinger.
Margie is a physical therapist who specializes in ergonomics
(00:42):
and helps has helped thousands of people with their posture for
better not just eye health, but brain health and overall health.
So thank you so much, Margie, for joining us today on the
ihealth Summit. Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here
with you. Yeah, for those of you who don't
know, Margie is really a powerhouse in her area of
expertise. She has she has hosted multiple
(01:06):
online conferences Summit on osteoporosis and bone health.
So if you haven't yet experienced one of her summits,
definitely for the next one, I encourage you to sign up and
join because she is again a wealth of information.
Margie, I would love to begin byasking you to Share your story
of how you got interested in this topic of ergonomics and
(01:27):
posture for overall health. It started a really long time
ago because I've been a physicaltherapist now for over over 40
years and way back, you know, I was my area of expertise when I
had my master's in is orthopedicphysical therapy.
So I was working with people with neck problems, TMJ, chronic
(01:48):
pain, back pain. And it to me, it just didn't
make sense because we would see the patient and they could get
better with physical therapy, but then they went back to their
work environment and that was one of the causes often times.
So it seems so backwards after, after they've been injured,
that's when they learned how to sit properly, how to adjust
(02:09):
their workstation so that they don't reinjure themselves.
But it just didn't make sense. Why wasn't this preventative?
All these injuries that really, really changed peoples lives
could have been prevented. And so that's where I thought,
you know, this just if people could learn what to do prior to
an injury, why would that not, why would I not get involved
(02:30):
with that? So I did, I started working with
companies, going to big corporations and teaching the
employees all sorts of ergonomics, desk setups,
workstation setups, and it made a huge difference.
And so that's just been part of something I've always done ever
since early on in my physical therapy career, but now it's
happened over time is that people are more at home, they're
(02:53):
using home computers, you know, that Home Office and especially
during and the same issues were happening.
People just didn't know how to adapt.
And it's not hard. I think most of the problem is
that people weren't aware of what they could do because it's
not something you learn and not pastor just isn't really talked
about that much. So that's how I got so
interested because it was frustrating to see the injuries
(03:16):
that I know could have been prevented.
And the good news is that these are easy tweaks and why not feel
so much better? At the end of the day, no one
wants to be fatigued. And it can, as we'll talk about,
affect your eyes as well. Absolutely.
Thank you so much for sharing that, Margie, your journey into
your area of expertise. Just as an aside, some estimates
(03:38):
say that most of us, most adultsspend about 9 to 10 hours a day
in front of screen. Some people even more because
you combine work with personal use and connecting with friends
and family, watching shows like Netflix, it adds up to a lot of
time spent in front of a screen.So it's really no surprise that
our workstations, our ergonomicswhen we're at a screen are so
(04:00):
important and it's really important to optimize these for
eye health and our overall health.
So can you just first explain a little bit about ergonomics?
Why is it so important to have the right posture, the right
distances set up on on your at your workstation?
Why is that so critical? What's so critical is because
(04:21):
the body can respond to things, but when we're in awkward
positions or when we're doing repetitive injuries and not
moving, motion is lotion. So when we're in an awkward
position, muscles tighten up andmuscles, in terms of the eyes,
it can tighten and cause issues with nerves that go to the eyes.
But in terms of the whole body, the body gets fatigued because
(04:43):
normally blood pumps in and thenwe know we normally have with
movement, we have blood circulating, it goes to the
acting muscles and then the waist products.
But what happens when we're in constant tightness or
contraction? We just have waist product,
products build up. People have felt knots in their
shoulders, different things. The body doesn't do well when
(05:03):
it's in an awkward position for long periods of time.
And that's what happens. We aren't moving, we're stuck in
these positions and a lot of times they're not natural
positions and we can, we'll talkabout what neutral positions
are. The body doesn't like that,
tightens up, becomes painful. The body then tightens up more.
It's called pain, spasm, pain. It just becomes this negative
(05:24):
cycle that by the end of the daywe're fatigued as well as having
so many other symptoms. It's just, it's two things.
It's setting up your office, your desk, setting up, setting
up your environment so that you can be in a reasonable posture,
and also learning how to work soyou can have a.
I've seen so often people in companies where they spent so
(05:45):
much money on the best equipmentand the chairs that move and but
the person didn't understand theconcepts of what they were
trying to achieve. So it was really.
So it's a combination of both the worker knowing how to what
they need to do, taking breaks like we'll talk about, as well
as setting things up so to minimize being in awkward
(06:08):
positions that may result in pain and other issues.
Yeah, that is so important. I'm so glad that you highlighted
that because when it comes to eye care, most eye care
providers, whether they're ophthalmologists, optometrists,
will advocate for frequent breaks.
We use the 20/20/20 rule, which basically means every 20
minutes, set your timer, take a 22nd break and don't look at
(06:31):
your screen. Look at something maybe 20 feet
in the distance. You relax your eyes for a short
time and then you can resume working.
But what you're here, what you're saying, Margie, at least
what I'm hearing from you, is that there are so many other
aspects to optimizing your workstation that, again, most
eye care providers may not even be aware of.
I probably am not aware of many of these.
I'm looking forward to learning from you as well.
(06:53):
But I would love for you to justto share some of these tips and
strategies for optimizing workstations.
OK. So what this slide shows is our
we have 3 curves in our spine. There's an inward curve in the
neck and then the mid back is outward and then the low back is
inward. And what this is so important is
(07:14):
this gives us structure and stability.
If it was just rim rod straight,we wouldn't be able to carry
forces through our spine. So a really important concept is
you want to maintain the three curves in our spine.
And if people just left even thinking about the low back
curve, that's the main one that people don't maintain.
(07:34):
That will make a difference. So this just shows ideally the
ear and the shoulder should be in alignment very often.
And these, this young person, young analysts especially now
with everybody on their phones, young children's spines are
actually changing unfortunately.But anyway, the most people, a
(07:55):
lot of people have the ear in front of the shoulder, which is
called the forward head. The problem with that is when
your head is forward, it shortens the distance.
Here you can feel if your head goes forward, the upper spine
gets shortened. That's muscles to the eyes all.
There's so many nerves, not the muscles, so many nerves in
(08:16):
there. When the muscles tighten, they
can press on the nerve. It can give you dizziness, it
can give you headaches, it can give you eye strain.
So many different things. Plus a lot of people have
headaches just because of this area, so it really has an effect
on the neck. When your shoulders are rounded,
that also puts everything it compresses inside as well, so
(08:38):
you can get all sorts of arm symptoms.
So it's just a negative. There's so many negative things
from this posture and most people don't even aren't even
aware of it. And this just shows 12 lbs.
The average head weighs around £12 translated through the spine
against gravity. But when your head is forward
instead of 12 lbs, we have to multiply it.
(08:59):
People remember physics by the distance.
So now it's 36 lbs on a spine. And so most people think just
bring your head back. No, the big issue here is the
rounded back. And that's things that's so
common. People sit with a rounded spine.
So just changing that is amazing.
(09:20):
When people learn how to sit, maintaining that inward curve in
the low back, it can make all the difference in the world.
So this just shows a common young person and as we see her
head's forward, her shoulders are rounded.
And now if she's with a computer, there you go, you have
that. And again, things don't happen
(09:40):
all of a sudden and the body canhandle.
Sure, if you're for a short period of time, the body can
handle and taking the breaks, but it's the extended period of
time that all sorts of problems happen.
And this just shows crossing your legs.
Guess what that does rounds out your low back.
How many of us cross our table? So what we want to do, this is
(10:02):
something that people can do if they're using a chair with the
back, they can either have a lumbar support if this is for
someone who needs the back support.
Because sometimes you have thosecushy chairs and you just
collapse or take a bowel roll sothat when your low back is
maintained, it's amazing what can happen.
And this just shows sometimes even sitting on the edge of a
(10:23):
chair with your legs separated, how we're supposed to.
And a funny thing people can do,and you can do this now too, is
when you're sitting, you want tovisualize your head floating up
to the ceiling, your spine length, because we're so often
compressed. But one easy tweak is pressed
down into your feet. And if you do that, you'll feel
(10:45):
your spine just lengthens and itfeels so good.
How easy is that to do? But I also have one of the free
gifts for the summit I go through.
It's called two weeks to better posture.
So I have videos of me demonstrating all this that you
can really learn how to do theseeasy things you can do
throughout the day. And this just shows also where
(11:06):
you place the monitor. SO1 easy thing we can do is, and
you want it around 18 to 30 inches from your eyes.
That's approximately the one wayyou can do is just put your
hand, put your hands in front like he's doing and then see how
that feels. If it's too, if you're too close
to the monitor, it might be hardand more, you know this better
(11:28):
than I do, but maybe it's, it might be harder on your eyes to
focus. And if you're too far away, you
may have to lean forward to see the monitor.
So we want to have the monitor distance proper.
Wow, Margie, those insights wereamazing.
I had never even thought about my neck position, my curvature
(11:50):
in my spine because normally I am guilty of doing so many of
those things. You just showed so many of those
images. I sit like this, my face really
close, I have my feet crossed, Isit cross legged on my chair or
I sit on my knees. Now I realize that all of these
are impacting not just my upper spine, but my entire spine.
And I have had some issues with my low back and sciatica, for
(12:12):
example. So I'm going to take some of
those tips to heart. So if you can summarize, let's
say the three or four most important posture, ideal posture
tips, what would they be? #1 the rounded back.
You want you when you're sitting, you want to maintain
the inward curve of your back. You can do that either by if you
have to use a towel roll, whatever it is because you can
(12:35):
feel if everybody tries to. Round the back.
Out and fall apart. So that's number one.
Number two, I think the forward head.
And so one thing that they can do and this is in the exercises,
but during the day, you can do exercises where you just if you
put your one hand on your sternum, one on your chin and
just try to bring it back. So it's just like you're.
(12:56):
So it's just a little bit. I immediately feel the
difference. It's so much more relaxed rather
than to be like this just to move back a few inches.
Throughout the day, it's not that you have to say that, but
you can also put your hand, you'll feel the inward curve in
your neck and when you do that, you feel you'll feel the neck
into your hand. So very gentle, maybe three to
(13:16):
five repetitions, three to five times a day, but it just will
really help you get out of that forward head position.
So I'd say those are #2 and thenI guess the third one is your
shoulders. I think a good posture during
the day. And this is also in the is just
throughout the day, same thing, the easy exercises, bringing
your shoulders back and down, just making those muscles up
(13:38):
because sometimes we're here andthey're too forward.
So I think I would say if you do, because the truth is what I
found and being a physical therapist for a very long time
is that when I tell people, okay, sit this way, sit that
way, they're too busy. I have to be honest, where's my
head? They're just not thinking about
that. However, if they know they have
to do a couple exercises throughout the day, like when
(14:01):
they take a break that they do and it reminds you, it reminds
your body, yeah, my head should be out here or so I would say,
though, I'd say if you do the exercises that's on the sheet,
that or those exercises throughout the day, that's going
to start making a really big difference.
And just the awareness, I think just being aware.
Are you slumping? And if so, time to make some
(14:22):
corrections. Yes, well, thank you for all of
those amazing tips. I'm going to start paying more
attention to myself. And for those of you who wanted
to download Margie's free gift, it will be on the show notes
below. So you can access that in her
videos as well. And Margie, I also want to thank
you for bringing up the topic ofheadaches and neck pain because
so in the eye Care World, we talk about this syndrome called
(14:45):
digital eye strain. And yes, there are visual
symptoms like blurry vision, dryeye, trouble focusing, but then
there are neck and shoulder issues that many people have
associated with digital eye strain and headaches.
And many people's headaches actually begin in the back of
the head or the kind of radiating down to their neck and
shoulders. So these are some amazing tips
(15:06):
to help alleviate some of those may be underlying root causes
for why people are having these symptoms.
So thank you so much. Have you seen this in your
clients as well, that a lot of these people will have this
digital eye strain syndrome? Hello.
Many, I can't even tell you. And for numerous years I also
worked a lot with dentists and head, neck and TMJ pain and so
(15:29):
many people. So The thing is, I just wanted
to show one of the things. So that exercise is really great
for reducing the headaches because it opens up that area.
But I just wanted to show something that's so great.
Let's see, can you see this? It's.
Oxy pivot. You can get it on Amazon, you
can get it whatever, but you liedown and this puts pressure
right on the upper cervical areawith books too.
(15:53):
And just you can even lie down like I put some books under your
head and do that exercise, but just to stretch it out while
you're taking breaks is amazing to relieve it.
And because it's very happened to me who has really good
posture. I was so busy, even though I had
good posture, I was just on the computer too long and not taking
breaks and it's misery. It's just so many, a lot of
(16:16):
people don't realize it's from their neck.
But then if you feel you'll feelthe knots and it's really tight.
So doing the exercise, lying on the floor, doing that and that
I'm telling you, this thing is help.
So we used to make them. Actually one of the jobs I had,
we used to make our own with ourfingers.
That's like a technique for a physical therapist.
You put your fingers there, deeppressure that works so well and
(16:38):
it's preventable with that one exercise.
But it's so true and it's so debilitating and it's so
preventable. So that's the.
Good news that is again phenomenal.
Thank you for sharing that. I plan to try it as soon as we
get out of our interview. I'm going to be trying that
exercise and consider that the device that you showed that's
available on Amazon as well. This has been enlightening,
(16:58):
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In terms of setting up our workstation, whether it's at
home or in the office, what are some tips that you have to help
(18:04):
reduce eye strain? So in terms of also the eye, we
want the monitor just at either eye height or drop below, you
know, and that's a really important concept.
And we want the monitor actually, this looks a little
high, but we want this is a fakeperson.
And then where the arms are, that's really important too.
(18:24):
So you want the elbow bend to 90° or 100°, we don't want it.
We don't want it bends to the right angle or a little, a
little more in terms of that. And we want the desk height
around one to two inches below the elbows, around a little bit
lower than the elbows. And because a lot of times
people will have it higher. And the other thing very
(18:47):
important, the risk we want in neutral position.
Can you see me? OK?
So we don't want it to the left,we don't want it to the right.
So I think those are really important and we already talked
about the distance, but some this is a life changer.
I can't even tell you the amountof injuries since the sit to
stand desk. So this is a cheaper way to do
(19:07):
it. You can just use a converter,
but that has changed everything because as I said, motion is
lotion. So just moving your position is
in terms of going from a sit to stand and it's huge.
So I'm such a big believer and I've seen such a reduction in
injuries since people have started using this.
(19:29):
And that just shows her sitting.Same desk with the sit to stand
now. This is very interesting.
So I like this, Eric. This is just showing you can put
a mat under the floor because wewant to move.
It's that staying in one position that causes so many
problems. But what did we just talk about?
This is not a good ad because these aren't not bent to 90,
(19:52):
it's way down. The monitor is not at all at my
level or slightly below. So where maybe this is good for
his legs, This is not a good setup.
Now, here's the biggest thing I would say, if there's one thing,
because I give these talks a lotand people submit their
workstations and this is the biggest one I see, people are
(20:14):
working on a laptop. So we just talked about a couple
things. We talked about the monitor
being at eye height or a little lower right, and the arms, the
keyboard a little, your elbows being bent 90°.
Guess what, that is absolutely not possible with a laptop.
Now the body can accommodate this short periods of time, but
(20:35):
all day being on a laptop? Easy correction what you do as
you see in this picture. So you can have a different
monitor and then you have a keyboard and a mouse and or you
can buy a stand for your computer.
And this isn't an expensive thing.
So if you're, of course, if you're at a Starbucks, you may
(20:55):
not bring all this or whatever, but when you're on something for
a period of time, this makes allthe difference.
Then you can set it up so you'renot because if you're on the
laptop, you're either looking down all day and your arms are
tightening. So it's such an easy tweak.
You get a stand, you get anotheradditional monitor connected.
And when my kids went to college, this is a long time
(21:18):
ago, not a long time ago, but I remember for the original, we
got a whole set up and people like, what are you doing?
This really helps. So I emerging an external
keyboard also because if your laptop's all the way up here,
your arms are going to be at this angle at some.
Point right, you get no matter what you either get.
So you either get a monitor likethis or you get a stand.
(21:38):
So you could put your laptop up there and then you get an
external keyboard and a mouse, external mouse.
So they make you set that up so everything is in good position.
But that's the biggest thing because it's and then you see
people on the laptop on their couch on they're really slashed
over. So if you combine the good setup
and what we talked about in terms of maintaining your
(21:58):
curves, you're good to go. OK, So this just shows that this
is an exaggeration. This is me.
Oh my goodness, I'm cringing. This is exactly what I do.
So many people do that. Look at and imagine the eyes,
the neck, this is this is not tolerated by the body.
And look at the wrist. We said neutral wrist.
(22:19):
So this is absolutely not in a good position.
And then this slide someone who has issues with their eyes.
So they're not doing what you tell to everybody to do to take
care of their eyes or if the monitor was too far.
But obviously he's having issues.
So now he's in a very awkward position because of the slides.
So those are the major things I'm seeing if I had.
(22:39):
And also the knees you want, youwant to make sure they're around
90° feet flat on the ground. A lot of people let their feet
dangle. So just put something under it.
We used to say put a phone book under, but they make because
that puts a lot of force on yourlow back as well.
So I think I covered the main things in terms of what you can
(23:00):
do. Got it.
Thank you for showing those slides, Margie.
It was so helpful to visualize all of these different positions
that many of us do, many of us are guilty of, including myself.
I wanted to ask or add 2 other points to what you said.
And you mentioned that the monitor should be at eye level,
not too low, but often times, especially if people are working
(23:20):
on multiple screens, they'll have monitors, let's say two or
three monitors that are positioned very high up.
And I always tell patients that's really a no no because
when they're looking up at the screen, their physical eye is
elevated and it leads to more dryness because the eyes just
dry out. We're not blinking as much when
we're on the screen. And then you're exposing more of
(23:41):
the eyeball to drying out. Have you had patients who've had
monitors that are very high? What are some solutions you
offer for that issue? Such a good point.
I should actually mention that when we were talking about the
monitor height, because if it's too low, you're straining your
neck and too high you're also getting compression and the same
thing you're getting the dry eyebecause people aren't blinking
(24:02):
as much when they're looking up.So yes, that's such a good point
and yes, that is an issue because that's not a good
posture. So we've worked things out where
they put the monitors close to each other or people say it one
monitor and they move their chair so they're looking
straight, but it needs but you can lower the monitor or raise
your chair. There are definitely.
Things that can stand right or stand.
(24:24):
But a lot of people and there's multiple monitors.
What I have somebody do is have their main monitor in front and
then if they need to move the chair so that they're not
awkward for the monitors. You do the best you can and the
body can accommodate. It certainly doesn't have to be
perfect by any means. And I'll go somewhere and I'll
be on hours on a laptop because there's no other option.
(24:45):
So if you do the best you can within your circumstances, but
all day long, absolutely that's going to cause a problem.
Yes, I have them either stand, adjust the height of their chair
or change things. So it's just that's not a good
situation and then. I love your tip about having the
main monitor optimized perfectlyand then if you need to look
(25:06):
away to the side with the supplementary monitors, it's a
shorter period of time that turned or not ideal, but I.
Don't care, you know what I'm saying?
So instead of torquing your body, turn the whole body so
you're feeling well. Then you're still in the neutral
past and you're. Also believing the next train of
having to turn like this. So the second thing I wanted to
(25:28):
just mention for our audience isthat I'm going to show this
image again of this individual who's really not crafting for
it. Looks like he can't focus well
enough to look at the screen because he's so close, even
though he's wearing glasses. So I wanted to put a plug again
for you really should see your eye doctor and get your glasses
or whatever is you're using optimized for the distances that
(25:48):
you need. So there are glasses that we
call work progressives that are optimized both for intermediate
distance, which is arm's length.And then up close, if you're
switching back and forth betweenlooking at the screen and then
looking at your phone or lookingat paper on your desk, you will
be optimized. So for example, if you're
wearing your distance glasses for this type of task, it may
(26:09):
not be ideal because you may they have to adjust and it's
going to be blurry and it's going to add to your digital eye
strain. So talk to your optometrist or
ophthalmologist about optimizingyour prescription for the
distance that is best for you. So just a little plug there for
that. You know, I love that because
it's so important and people just people go through their day
(26:32):
and I'm guilty of this in other areas as well.
You're busy, you don't think about this.
Oh, no big deal. But what's going to happen when
you take these tips? You're going to have so much
more energy. It's incredible the difference
when your body is in tight. We're going to think about how
sore he's. Yeah, and I've been there.
So in our last few minutes together, Margie, I wanted to
(26:53):
ask you, do you have any tips for phones, smartphones, What is
the optimal position? Because a lot of people, they
look down, they're looking very close.
So again, they're in that hunched over position.
What is the optimal viewing distance for a phone and
position? OK, so so here's the thing.
It's the same posture things. Actually, I have Tex neck in the
(27:14):
handout, in the free handout. I go, I show a video on Tex.
But the point is you want to be here's my phone.
You want to be in a position with good posture.
So what I whenever you and treatit, you don't, you don't want to
be rounded. So you want to almost make it an
exercise. Shoulders back and down.
You're holding your phone and but when you're doing that, the
(27:35):
couple things you can do whenever possible dictate.
So instead of texting, that's harder if you have a stand on
your desk. If you're doing anything, you
can get a little stick so that you're so the key thing is that
you're trying to be in as good posture as possible that your
phone so that you don't have to so because I'm.
Thinking naturally and we're looking at our phones we don't
(27:55):
just hold our phones like here right so we're looking down
anyway and that automatically causes like a flexion in the
neck right so how do you avoid that or you're what you.
Do is you hold your phone with your shoulder blades back and
down in a good position and if you have to text, but if you can
put a stand, you know that's that you're not a vocalist.
(28:15):
Like on the side and then you'rejust yeah.
So that's one option, dictating,so you're in a good position,
you're dictating, or you can even have headphones and
dictate. Dictating's great and just tell
the person if something's wrong,so be it.
But I think and then afterwards make sure to do some exercises
back and down. But I think if you think about
(28:35):
how can I maintain a good posture, they also make
something got the name of it? I show it in the video where you
can put it on the back of your phone and and hold the phone.
You can also do that and that makes it easier so that you can
keep yourself in a good position.
But again, if you're if your shoulder blades are back and
down, that's going to keep you from this rounded position.
(28:57):
So as an exercise, shoulder blades back and down and then
afterwards do a few just exercises where you're going
your shoulder blades back and down your neck.
The counteract. If you have been at all in a
position that you wouldn't like to counteract, that would be
helpful too. How excellent recommendations.
I'm going to take that to heart.I'm going to tell my family, get
them to change their positions as well.
(29:18):
So for all of you out there, tryto absorb all of this for
yourself. Try to make some changes, but
also share them with your friends and family because if
you watch them, you'll probably see many of them in those types
of positions as well when they're at their workstations.
Margie, this has been incredible.
Some truly amazing insights thatyou've shared with us.
We are so grateful to you for coming on the I, I Health Summit
(29:39):
and sharing all of these tips and strategies.
Now, if anyone wanted to learn more from you, aside from the
free gift, how could they find you online?
If they wanted to become a client, participate in one of
your online programs, how could they find you?
Yeah, the best place is 2 places.
My websites just margiebissinger.com and then my
YouTube also, I have a podcast called what you've been on Happy
(30:02):
Bones, Happy Life, and they can find out any podcast station,
YouTube, wherever they can find out the podcast, which has all
sorts of interesting topics on it.
So I would say those are the best places.
I'm on Instagram. Thank you as well.
But I think the I think the all those are good, but I think the
website has all more informationon it.
(30:22):
OK, thank you. We will certainly share all of
those links for our audience. Again, thank you, Margie for
being a guest on the ihealth Summit.
We truly appreciate you and yourinsights.
And thank you all for joining us.
And we look forward to seeing you during our next interview.
So stay tuned. Thank you for tuning in to the
IQ Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's
episode and learn something new to help you boost your IQ.
(30:47):
Leave us a review and share the podcast with your family and
friends. Stay connected with me for more
eye opening insights on ihealth,nutrition and lifestyle.
Until next time, keep your vision clear and your IQ sharp.
One the rounded back, you want you when you're sitting, you
want to maintain the inward curve of your back.
You can do that either by if youhave to use a towel or all
whatever it is because you can feel if everybody tries to.
Round the back. Out you fall apart.
Welcome to the IQ Podcast. I'm Doctor Ronnie Bannock, here
(00:20):
to help you boost your IQ with powerful insights that connect
your eyes, your brain, and your whole body Wellness.
Welcome to today's session on the ihealth Summit.
I'm your host, Doctor Ronnie Bannock, and today I'm so
excited to welcome our guest, Margie Bissinger.
Margie is a physical therapist who specializes in ergonomics
(00:42):
and helps has helped thousands of people with their posture for
better not just eye health, but brain health and overall health.
So thank you so much, Margie, for joining us today on the
ihealth Summit. Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here
with you. Yeah, for those of you who don't
know, Margie is really a powerhouse in her area of
expertise. She has she has hosted multiple
(01:06):
online conferences Summit on osteoporosis and bone health.
So if you haven't yet experienced one of her summits,
definitely for the next one, I encourage you to sign up and
join because she is again a wealth of information.
Margie, I would love to begin byasking you to Share your story
of how you got interested in this topic of ergonomics and
(01:27):
posture for overall health. It started a really long time
ago because I've been a physicaltherapist now for over over 40
years and way back, you know, I was my area of expertise when I
had my master's in is orthopedicphysical therapy.
So I was working with people with neck problems, TMJ, chronic
(01:48):
pain, back pain. And it to me, it just didn't
make sense because we would see the patient and they could get
better with physical therapy, but then they went back to their
work environment and that was one of the causes often times.
So it seems so backwards after, after they've been injured,
that's when they learned how to sit properly, how to adjust
(02:09):
their workstation so that they don't reinjure themselves.
But it just didn't make sense. Why wasn't this preventative?
All these injuries that really, really changed peoples lives
could have been prevented. And so that's where I thought,
you know, this just if people could learn what to do prior to
an injury, why would that not, why would I not get involved
(02:30):
with that? So I did, I started working with
companies, going to big corporations and teaching the
employees all sorts of ergonomics, desk setups,
workstation setups, and it made a huge difference.
And so that's just been part of something I've always done ever
since early on in my physical therapy career, but now it's
happened over time is that people are more at home, they're
(02:53):
using home computers, you know, that Home Office and especially
during and the same issues were happening.
People just didn't know how to adapt.
And it's not hard. I think most of the problem is
that people weren't aware of what they could do because it's
not something you learn and not pastor just isn't really talked
about that much. So that's how I got so
interested because it was frustrating to see the injuries
(03:16):
that I know could have been prevented.
And the good news is that these are easy tweaks and why not feel
so much better? At the end of the day, no one
wants to be fatigued. And it can, as we'll talk about,
affect your eyes as well. Absolutely.
Thank you so much for sharing that, Margie, your journey into
your area of expertise. Just as an aside, some estimates
(03:38):
say that most of us, most adultsspend about 9 to 10 hours a day
in front of screen. Some people even more because
you combine work with personal use and connecting with friends
and family, watching shows like Netflix, it adds up to a lot of
time spent in front of a screen.So it's really no surprise that
our workstations, our ergonomicswhen we're at a screen are so
(04:00):
important and it's really important to optimize these for
eye health and our overall health.
So can you just first explain a little bit about ergonomics?
Why is it so important to have the right posture, the right
distances set up on on your at your workstation?
Why is that so critical? What's so critical is because
(04:21):
the body can respond to things, but when we're in awkward
positions or when we're doing repetitive injuries and not
moving, motion is lotion. So when we're in an awkward
position, muscles tighten up andmuscles, in terms of the eyes,
it can tighten and cause issues with nerves that go to the eyes.
But in terms of the whole body, the body gets fatigued because
(04:43):
normally blood pumps in and thenwe know we normally have with
movement, we have blood circulating, it goes to the
acting muscles and then the waist products.
But what happens when we're in constant tightness or
contraction? We just have waist product,
products build up. People have felt knots in their
shoulders, different things. The body doesn't do well when
(05:03):
it's in an awkward position for long periods of time.
And that's what happens. We aren't moving, we're stuck in
these positions and a lot of times they're not natural
positions and we can, we'll talkabout what neutral positions
are. The body doesn't like that,
tightens up, becomes painful. The body then tightens up more.
It's called pain, spasm, pain. It just becomes this negative
(05:24):
cycle that by the end of the daywe're fatigued as well as having
so many other symptoms. It's just, it's two things.
It's setting up your office, your desk, setting up, setting
up your environment so that you can be in a reasonable posture,
and also learning how to work soyou can have a.
I've seen so often people in companies where they spent so
(05:45):
much money on the best equipmentand the chairs that move and but
the person didn't understand theconcepts of what they were
trying to achieve. So it was really.
So it's a combination of both the worker knowing how to what
they need to do, taking breaks like we'll talk about, as well
as setting things up so to minimize being in awkward
(06:08):
positions that may result in pain and other issues.
Yeah, that is so important. I'm so glad that you highlighted
that because when it comes to eye care, most eye care
providers, whether they're ophthalmologists, optometrists,
will advocate for frequent breaks.
We use the 20/20/20 rule, which basically means every 20
minutes, set your timer, take a 22nd break and don't look at
(06:31):
your screen. Look at something maybe 20 feet
in the distance. You relax your eyes for a short
time and then you can resume working.
But what you're here, what you're saying, Margie, at least
what I'm hearing from you, is that there are so many other
aspects to optimizing your workstation that, again, most
eye care providers may not even be aware of.
I probably am not aware of many of these.
I'm looking forward to learning from you as well.
(06:53):
But I would love for you to justto share some of these tips and
strategies for optimizing workstations.
OK. So what this slide shows is our
we have 3 curves in our spine. There's an inward curve in the
neck and then the mid back is outward and then the low back is
inward. And what this is so important is
(07:14):
this gives us structure and stability.
If it was just rim rod straight,we wouldn't be able to carry
forces through our spine. So a really important concept is
you want to maintain the three curves in our spine.
And if people just left even thinking about the low back
curve, that's the main one that people don't maintain.
(07:34):
That will make a difference. So this just shows ideally the
ear and the shoulder should be in alignment very often.
And these, this young person, young analysts especially now
with everybody on their phones, young children's spines are
actually changing unfortunately.But anyway, the most people, a
(07:55):
lot of people have the ear in front of the shoulder, which is
called the forward head. The problem with that is when
your head is forward, it shortens the distance.
Here you can feel if your head goes forward, the upper spine
gets shortened. That's muscles to the eyes all.
There's so many nerves, not the muscles, so many nerves in
(08:16):
there. When the muscles tighten, they
can press on the nerve. It can give you dizziness, it
can give you headaches, it can give you eye strain.
So many different things. Plus a lot of people have
headaches just because of this area, so it really has an effect
on the neck. When your shoulders are rounded,
that also puts everything it compresses inside as well, so
(08:38):
you can get all sorts of arm symptoms.
So it's just a negative. There's so many negative things
from this posture and most people don't even aren't even
aware of it. And this just shows 12 lbs.
The average head weighs around £12 translated through the spine
against gravity. But when your head is forward
instead of 12 lbs, we have to multiply it.
(08:59):
People remember physics by the distance.
So now it's 36 lbs on a spine. And so most people think just
bring your head back. No, the big issue here is the
rounded back. And that's things that's so
common. People sit with a rounded spine.
So just changing that is amazing.
(09:20):
When people learn how to sit, maintaining that inward curve in
the low back, it can make all the difference in the world.
So this just shows a common young person and as we see her
head's forward, her shoulders are rounded.
And now if she's with a computer, there you go, you have
that. And again, things don't happen
(09:40):
all of a sudden and the body canhandle.
Sure, if you're for a short period of time, the body can
handle and taking the breaks, but it's the extended period of
time that all sorts of problems happen.
And this just shows crossing your legs.
Guess what that does rounds out your low back.
How many of us cross our table? So what we want to do, this is
(10:02):
something that people can do if they're using a chair with the
back, they can either have a lumbar support if this is for
someone who needs the back support.
Because sometimes you have thosecushy chairs and you just
collapse or take a bowel roll sothat when your low back is
maintained, it's amazing what can happen.
And this just shows sometimes even sitting on the edge of a
(10:23):
chair with your legs separated, how we're supposed to.
And a funny thing people can do,and you can do this now too, is
when you're sitting, you want tovisualize your head floating up
to the ceiling, your spine length, because we're so often
compressed. But one easy tweak is pressed
down into your feet. And if you do that, you'll feel
(10:45):
your spine just lengthens and itfeels so good.
How easy is that to do? But I also have one of the free
gifts for the summit I go through.
It's called two weeks to better posture.
So I have videos of me demonstrating all this that you
can really learn how to do theseeasy things you can do
throughout the day. And this just shows also where
(11:06):
you place the monitor. SO1 easy thing we can do is, and
you want it around 18 to 30 inches from your eyes.
That's approximately the one wayyou can do is just put your
hand, put your hands in front like he's doing and then see how
that feels. If it's too, if you're too close
to the monitor, it might be hardand more, you know this better
(11:28):
than I do, but maybe it's, it might be harder on your eyes to
focus. And if you're too far away, you
may have to lean forward to see the monitor.
So we want to have the monitor distance proper.
Wow, Margie, those insights wereamazing.
I had never even thought about my neck position, my curvature
(11:50):
in my spine because normally I am guilty of doing so many of
those things. You just showed so many of those
images. I sit like this, my face really
close, I have my feet crossed, Isit cross legged on my chair or
I sit on my knees. Now I realize that all of these
are impacting not just my upper spine, but my entire spine.
And I have had some issues with my low back and sciatica, for
(12:12):
example. So I'm going to take some of
those tips to heart. So if you can summarize, let's
say the three or four most important posture, ideal posture
tips, what would they be? #1 the rounded back.
You want you when you're sitting, you want to maintain
the inward curve of your back. You can do that either by if you
have to use a towel roll, whatever it is because you can
(12:35):
feel if everybody tries to. Round the back.
Out and fall apart. So that's number one.
Number two, I think the forward head.
And so one thing that they can do and this is in the exercises,
but during the day, you can do exercises where you just if you
put your one hand on your sternum, one on your chin and
just try to bring it back. So it's just like you're.
(12:56):
So it's just a little bit. I immediately feel the
difference. It's so much more relaxed rather
than to be like this just to move back a few inches.
Throughout the day, it's not that you have to say that, but
you can also put your hand, you'll feel the inward curve in
your neck and when you do that, you feel you'll feel the neck
into your hand. So very gentle, maybe three to
(13:16):
five repetitions, three to five times a day, but it just will
really help you get out of that forward head position.
So I'd say those are #2 and thenI guess the third one is your
shoulders. I think a good posture during
the day. And this is also in the is just
throughout the day, same thing, the easy exercises, bringing
your shoulders back and down, just making those muscles up
(13:38):
because sometimes we're here andthey're too forward.
So I think I would say if you do, because the truth is what I
found and being a physical therapist for a very long time
is that when I tell people, okay, sit this way, sit that
way, they're too busy. I have to be honest, where's my
head? They're just not thinking about
that. However, if they know they have
to do a couple exercises throughout the day, like when
(14:01):
they take a break that they do and it reminds you, it reminds
your body, yeah, my head should be out here or so I would say,
though, I'd say if you do the exercises that's on the sheet,
that or those exercises throughout the day, that's going
to start making a really big difference.
And just the awareness, I think just being aware.
Are you slumping? And if so, time to make some
(14:22):
corrections. Yes, well, thank you for all of
those amazing tips. I'm going to start paying more
attention to myself. And for those of you who wanted
to download Margie's free gift, it will be on the show notes
below. So you can access that in her
videos as well. And Margie, I also want to thank
you for bringing up the topic ofheadaches and neck pain because
so in the eye Care World, we talk about this syndrome called
(14:45):
digital eye strain. And yes, there are visual
symptoms like blurry vision, dryeye, trouble focusing, but then
there are neck and shoulder issues that many people have
associated with digital eye strain and headaches.
And many people's headaches actually begin in the back of
the head or the kind of radiating down to their neck and
shoulders. So these are some amazing tips
(15:06):
to help alleviate some of those may be underlying root causes
for why people are having these symptoms.
So thank you so much. Have you seen this in your
clients as well, that a lot of these people will have this
digital eye strain syndrome? Hello.
Many, I can't even tell you. And for numerous years I also
worked a lot with dentists and head, neck and TMJ pain and so
(15:29):
many people. So The thing is, I just wanted
to show one of the things. So that exercise is really great
for reducing the headaches because it opens up that area.
But I just wanted to show something that's so great.
Let's see, can you see this? It's.
Oxy pivot. You can get it on Amazon, you
can get it whatever, but you liedown and this puts pressure
right on the upper cervical areawith books too.
(15:53):
And just you can even lie down like I put some books under your
head and do that exercise, but just to stretch it out while
you're taking breaks is amazing to relieve it.
And because it's very happened to me who has really good
posture. I was so busy, even though I had
good posture, I was just on the computer too long and not taking
breaks and it's misery. It's just so many, a lot of
(16:16):
people don't realize it's from their neck.
But then if you feel you'll feelthe knots and it's really tight.
So doing the exercise, lying on the floor, doing that and that
I'm telling you, this thing is help.
So we used to make them. Actually one of the jobs I had,
we used to make our own with ourfingers.
That's like a technique for a physical therapist.
You put your fingers there, deeppressure that works so well and
(16:38):
it's preventable with that one exercise.
But it's so true and it's so debilitating and it's so
preventable. So that's the.
Good news that is again phenomenal.
Thank you for sharing that. I plan to try it as soon as we
get out of our interview. I'm going to be trying that
exercise and consider that the device that you showed that's
available on Amazon as well. This has been enlightening,
(16:58):
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In terms of setting up our workstation, whether it's at
home or in the office, what are some tips that you have to help
(18:04):
reduce eye strain? So in terms of also the eye, we
want the monitor just at either eye height or drop below, you
know, and that's a really important concept.
And we want the monitor actually, this looks a little
high, but we want this is a fakeperson.
And then where the arms are, that's really important too.
(18:24):
So you want the elbow bend to 90° or 100°, we don't want it.
We don't want it bends to the right angle or a little, a
little more in terms of that. And we want the desk height
around one to two inches below the elbows, around a little bit
lower than the elbows. And because a lot of times
people will have it higher. And the other thing very
(18:47):
important, the risk we want in neutral position.
Can you see me? OK?
So we don't want it to the left,we don't want it to the right.
So I think those are really important and we already talked
about the distance, but some this is a life changer.
I can't even tell you the amountof injuries since the sit to
stand desk. So this is a cheaper way to do
(19:07):
it. You can just use a converter,
but that has changed everything because as I said, motion is
lotion. So just moving your position is
in terms of going from a sit to stand and it's huge.
So I'm such a big believer and I've seen such a reduction in
injuries since people have started using this.
(19:29):
And that just shows her sitting.Same desk with the sit to stand
now. This is very interesting.
So I like this, Eric. This is just showing you can put
a mat under the floor because wewant to move.
It's that staying in one position that causes so many
problems. But what did we just talk about?
This is not a good ad because these aren't not bent to 90,
(19:52):
it's way down. The monitor is not at all at my
level or slightly below. So where maybe this is good for
his legs, This is not a good setup.
Now, here's the biggest thing I would say, if there's one thing,
because I give these talks a lotand people submit their
workstations and this is the biggest one I see, people are
(20:14):
working on a laptop. So we just talked about a couple
things. We talked about the monitor
being at eye height or a little lower right, and the arms, the
keyboard a little, your elbows being bent 90°.
Guess what, that is absolutely not possible with a laptop.
Now the body can accommodate this short periods of time, but
(20:35):
all day being on a laptop? Easy correction what you do as
you see in this picture. So you can have a different
monitor and then you have a keyboard and a mouse and or you
can buy a stand for your computer.
And this isn't an expensive thing.
So if you're, of course, if you're at a Starbucks, you may
(20:55):
not bring all this or whatever, but when you're on something for
a period of time, this makes allthe difference.
Then you can set it up so you'renot because if you're on the
laptop, you're either looking down all day and your arms are
tightening. So it's such an easy tweak.
You get a stand, you get anotheradditional monitor connected.
And when my kids went to college, this is a long time
(21:18):
ago, not a long time ago, but I remember for the original, we
got a whole set up and people like, what are you doing?
This really helps. So I emerging an external
keyboard also because if your laptop's all the way up here,
your arms are going to be at this angle at some.
Point right, you get no matter what you either get.
So you either get a monitor likethis or you get a stand.
(21:38):
So you could put your laptop up there and then you get an
external keyboard and a mouse, external mouse.
So they make you set that up so everything is in good position.
But that's the biggest thing because it's and then you see
people on the laptop on their couch on they're really slashed
over. So if you combine the good setup
and what we talked about in terms of maintaining your
(21:58):
curves, you're good to go. OK, So this just shows that this
is an exaggeration. This is me.
Oh my goodness, I'm cringing. This is exactly what I do.
So many people do that. Look at and imagine the eyes,
the neck, this is this is not tolerated by the body.
And look at the wrist. We said neutral wrist.
(22:19):
So this is absolutely not in a good position.
And then this slide someone who has issues with their eyes.
So they're not doing what you tell to everybody to do to take
care of their eyes or if the monitor was too far.
But obviously he's having issues.
So now he's in a very awkward position because of the slides.
So those are the major things I'm seeing if I had.
(22:39):
And also the knees you want, youwant to make sure they're around
90° feet flat on the ground. A lot of people let their feet
dangle. So just put something under it.
We used to say put a phone book under, but they make because
that puts a lot of force on yourlow back as well.
So I think I covered the main things in terms of what you can
(23:00):
do. Got it.
Thank you for showing those slides, Margie.
It was so helpful to visualize all of these different positions
that many of us do, many of us are guilty of, including myself.
I wanted to ask or add 2 other points to what you said.
And you mentioned that the monitor should be at eye level,
not too low, but often times, especially if people are working
(23:20):
on multiple screens, they'll have monitors, let's say two or
three monitors that are positioned very high up.
And I always tell patients that's really a no no because
when they're looking up at the screen, their physical eye is
elevated and it leads to more dryness because the eyes just
dry out. We're not blinking as much when
we're on the screen. And then you're exposing more of
(23:41):
the eyeball to drying out. Have you had patients who've had
monitors that are very high? What are some solutions you
offer for that issue? Such a good point.
I should actually mention that when we were talking about the
monitor height, because if it's too low, you're straining your
neck and too high you're also getting compression and the same
thing you're getting the dry eyebecause people aren't blinking
(24:02):
as much when they're looking up.So yes, that's such a good point
and yes, that is an issue because that's not a good
posture. So we've worked things out where
they put the monitors close to each other or people say it one
monitor and they move their chair so they're looking
straight, but it needs but you can lower the monitor or raise
your chair. There are definitely.
Things that can stand right or stand.
(24:24):
But a lot of people and there's multiple monitors.
What I have somebody do is have their main monitor in front and
then if they need to move the chair so that they're not
awkward for the monitors. You do the best you can and the
body can accommodate. It certainly doesn't have to be
perfect by any means. And I'll go somewhere and I'll
be on hours on a laptop because there's no other option.
(24:45):
So if you do the best you can within your circumstances, but
all day long, absolutely that's going to cause a problem.
Yes, I have them either stand, adjust the height of their chair
or change things. So it's just that's not a good
situation and then. I love your tip about having the
main monitor optimized perfectlyand then if you need to look
(25:06):
away to the side with the supplementary monitors, it's a
shorter period of time that turned or not ideal, but I.
Don't care, you know what I'm saying?
So instead of torquing your body, turn the whole body so
you're feeling well. Then you're still in the neutral
past and you're. Also believing the next train of
having to turn like this. So the second thing I wanted to
(25:28):
just mention for our audience isthat I'm going to show this
image again of this individual who's really not crafting for
it. Looks like he can't focus well
enough to look at the screen because he's so close, even
though he's wearing glasses. So I wanted to put a plug again
for you really should see your eye doctor and get your glasses
or whatever is you're using optimized for the distances that
(25:48):
you need. So there are glasses that we
call work progressives that are optimized both for intermediate
distance, which is arm's length.And then up close, if you're
switching back and forth betweenlooking at the screen and then
looking at your phone or lookingat paper on your desk, you will
be optimized. So for example, if you're
wearing your distance glasses for this type of task, it may
(26:09):
not be ideal because you may they have to adjust and it's
going to be blurry and it's going to add to your digital eye
strain. So talk to your optometrist or
ophthalmologist about optimizingyour prescription for the
distance that is best for you. So just a little plug there for
that. You know, I love that because
it's so important and people just people go through their day
(26:32):
and I'm guilty of this in other areas as well.
You're busy, you don't think about this.
Oh, no big deal. But what's going to happen when
you take these tips? You're going to have so much
more energy. It's incredible the difference
when your body is in tight. We're going to think about how
sore he's. Yeah, and I've been there.
So in our last few minutes together, Margie, I wanted to
(26:53):
ask you, do you have any tips for phones, smartphones, What is
the optimal position? Because a lot of people, they
look down, they're looking very close.
So again, they're in that hunched over position.
What is the optimal viewing distance for a phone and
position? OK, so so here's the thing.
It's the same posture things. Actually, I have Tex neck in the
(27:14):
handout, in the free handout. I go, I show a video on Tex.
But the point is you want to be here's my phone.
You want to be in a position with good posture.
So what I whenever you and treatit, you don't, you don't want to
be rounded. So you want to almost make it an
exercise. Shoulders back and down.
You're holding your phone and but when you're doing that, the
(27:35):
couple things you can do whenever possible dictate.
So instead of texting, that's harder if you have a stand on
your desk. If you're doing anything, you
can get a little stick so that you're so the key thing is that
you're trying to be in as good posture as possible that your
phone so that you don't have to so because I'm.
Thinking naturally and we're looking at our phones we don't
(27:55):
just hold our phones like here right so we're looking down
anyway and that automatically causes like a flexion in the
neck right so how do you avoid that or you're what you.
Do is you hold your phone with your shoulder blades back and
down in a good position and if you have to text, but if you can
put a stand, you know that's that you're not a vocalist.
(28:15):
Like on the side and then you'rejust yeah.
So that's one option, dictating,so you're in a good position,
you're dictating, or you can even have headphones and
dictate. Dictating's great and just tell
the person if something's wrong,so be it.
But I think and then afterwards make sure to do some exercises
back and down. But I think if you think about
(28:35):
how can I maintain a good posture, they also make
something got the name of it? I show it in the video where you
can put it on the back of your phone and and hold the phone.
You can also do that and that makes it easier so that you can
keep yourself in a good position.
But again, if you're if your shoulder blades are back and
down, that's going to keep you from this rounded position.
(28:57):
So as an exercise, shoulder blades back and down and then
afterwards do a few just exercises where you're going
your shoulder blades back and down your neck.
The counteract. If you have been at all in a
position that you wouldn't like to counteract, that would be
helpful too. How excellent recommendations.
I'm going to take that to heart.I'm going to tell my family, get
them to change their positions as well.
(29:18):
So for all of you out there, tryto absorb all of this for
yourself. Try to make some changes, but
also share them with your friends and family because if
you watch them, you'll probably see many of them in those types
of positions as well when they're at their workstations.
Margie, this has been incredible.
Some truly amazing insights thatyou've shared with us.
We are so grateful to you for coming on the I, I Health Summit
(29:39):
and sharing all of these tips and strategies.
Now, if anyone wanted to learn more from you, aside from the
free gift, how could they find you online?
If they wanted to become a client, participate in one of
your online programs, how could they find you?
Yeah, the best place is 2 places.
My websites just margiebissinger.com and then my
YouTube also, I have a podcast called what you've been on Happy
(30:02):
Bones, Happy Life, and they can find out any podcast station,
YouTube, wherever they can find out the podcast, which has all
sorts of interesting topics on it.
So I would say those are the best places.
I'm on Instagram. Thank you as well.
But I think the I think the all those are good, but I think the
website has all more informationon it.
(30:22):
OK, thank you. We will certainly share all of
those links for our audience. Again, thank you, Margie for
being a guest on the ihealth Summit.
We truly appreciate you and yourinsights.
And thank you all for joining us.
And we look forward to seeing you during our next interview.
So stay tuned. Thank you for tuning in to the
IQ Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's
episode and learn something new to help you boost your IQ.
(30:47):
Leave us a review and share the podcast with your family and
friends. Stay connected with me for more
eye opening insights on ihealth,nutrition and lifestyle.
Until next time, keep your vision clear and your IQ sharp.
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