December 10, 2024 • 46 mins
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Fareedah Shaheed, a pioneering internet safety expert and Forbes 30 under 30 honoree, joins us to unravel the complexities of protecting children in the digital age. Fareedah shares her journey into cybersecurity, inspired by her own experiences as a gamer, and introduces the innovative SAFE method designed to create secure online environments for kids. Her fresh perspective challenges outdated internet safety advice and offers practical solutions influenced by AI and the nuances of online interactions. With humor and insight, she recounts her teenage attempts to persuade her parents for a smartphone, reflecting the evolving nature of digital safety.
Our conversation takes an emotional turn as we explore the intricate dynamics of mother-teen relationships amid family challenges like divorce. We dive into the story of a mother grappling with her daughter's risky choices, highlighting the societal pressures that can push young girls towards relationships with older partners. This chapter emphasizes the significance of teaching children their self-worth and the impact of brain development on decision-making. We also shine a light on the lurking dangers of online predator rings targeting youth, stressing the necessity of education and vigilance to safeguard young lives.
As we tackle the role of parents in the digital realm, we offer practical cybersecurity strategies to protect children while fostering open communication. From utilizing parental controls to gradually allowing more independence, we provide guidance on trusted tools from Microsoft, Apple, and Google. Beyond technical measures, we encourage parents to engage in meaningful conversations about digital safety, ensuring children feel secure in sharing their online experiences. Our aim is to equip families with the knowledge and resources needed to create a supportive, secure environment both online and offline.
Check out Fareedah's Library of Resources and how to protect your kids on Snapchat.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
If you have kids that areplaying online games like Roblox
or Fortnite or Minecraft, oryour kids have a phone and use
social media, you're going towant to tune in here and share
this episode with everyone inyour circles.
(00:22):
I have a cybersecurity experton the show today.
Welcome, farida.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Shahid, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Guys, this woman knows her stuff when it comes to
protecting kids online.
She's an award-winning internetsafety expert and a Forbes 30
under 30 honoree.
Her work has been featured onFox, the Wall Street Journal,
fortune, nbc, cnn and many othernews and media outlets.
(00:53):
Through her background incybersecurity awareness, threat
intelligence and online gaming,she has developed a unique
approach, called the safe method, to teach internet safety to
parents, our community bycentering the need for safe
spaces and connection as thefoundation to protecting kids
(01:16):
online.
I love that she is also thefounder of Secuba and the
Protect Kids Online membership,which I'll let Frida talk about
later.
Girl, I imagine you are so busythese days if your mission is
to help parents protect theirkids online.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I am, I really am.
It's the best thing ever.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, there's got to be a personal story here.
So how did you get into thiswork?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean, there's a professional background, you
know, going into corporate andworking in the cybersecurity
awareness and threatintelligence teams that let me
see what was going on in theback end that most people don't
see.
What are hackers and predatorsreally doing, what are they
going after and how they'regoing after it?
And at that point, when I wasworking in corporate, I did not
connect my own personalexperiences, so I was doing a
(02:11):
lot of workshops and a lot oflearnings for people internally
and like internal clients forcorporate around cybersecurity
awareness.
And, of course, a lot of peoplewere parents and they were
looking at me like you're kindof young, like you know I have a
teenager and like you're closerto their age than you are to
mine, and so like can you talk alittle bit more about like kids
(02:32):
online?
And I'm like, yeah, I could,but I'm not a parent, like I
don't want to talk about that.
That's, that's crazy.
And but to be honest, after Ihad many parents like I think,
uh think, within a year I had atleast 25, 50 parents and then
within five years I don't evenknow how many I lost count.
(02:52):
And so I started talking aboutinternet safety and then I was
looking online to see what otherpeople are saying about
protecting kids online, and Ifound it to be so out of touch.
The tips were out of touch.
It was cold, it was in thelaboratory, it was disconnected
from the reality of what kids gothrough online.
It was very like this is whatresearch says.
So tell your kids this, ordon't do this or do this, and
(03:14):
I'm like none of this works.
Most of it doesn't work.
I'm not going to say none of it, but most of it doesn't work,
and I fell into that trap too.
I'm not saying that everythingyou see online is bad.
I fall into the trap of sayingthings that it's like.
That's not necessarily, and Ifell into that.
Right now I changed the waythat I operate.
But when you learn cybersecurity, there's a certain way that you
say things to parents andyou're like tell your kids, for
(03:36):
instance, don't talk tostrangers online.
Or parents need to know morethan their kids.
They need to know the newestslang, the newest apps, they
need to know what their kids aredoing at all times.
They need to tell their kidsthat never to share.
There are certain things whereyou're like that's not realistic
, that's not rooted in reality,and so the reason why I started
doing it was like, okay, maybe Ihave some perspective to give
(03:57):
here, because I was a kid thatgamed online, that talked to
strangers, that did every singlething that I was not supposed
to do.
I don't think the tips don'twork because I did what I wasn't
supposed to do.
I just think they're notrealistic for the world that we
live in today, especially whenwe're talking about AI.
We're talking about kidstalking to these programs and
developing relationships andfollowing influencers online and
(04:18):
talking to people in onlinegames.
So my own story started thatway, where I the.
At first, I had one of thoselike phones.
I can't remember what they callthose phones, but it's like you
have to press like one buttonthree times in order to like
send one letter, like my littleNokia green lit up phone, and it
was like it was so cool.
(04:39):
It was.
It was great, and the onlything I had was like the I don't
know it was.
It was nice.
But the smartphone came out forlike the first time and I was
so excited about that and I toldI made a whole presentation to
my parents saying I would bekidnapped if I didn't get a
smartphone.
And I wanted, like because Isaid like imagine I'm in like
someone's trying to chase me andthen I'm trying to call you and
(05:00):
I have to press like fivedifferent buttons to get to you
and by that time I'm dead andI'm like I'm your only child,
and would you want to lose me?
You're good girl, you are good.
They're like you're being sodramatic.
This is not going to happen,but I think about like six
months later or something, theyended up giving me a smartphone
and so I was so happy because Icould move away from those snake
(05:21):
games and I could go to, likeyou know, the actual mobile
games that first started comingout.
And when I got those games, mymom sat me down and she was like
don't talk to strangers,especially not a man.
I was 13 years old at thispoint.
She said, like you know, don'tshare your location, your name,
don't share pictures the wholenine yards.
And I said, great, awesome.
And I was just like she doesn'tknow what she's talking about,
(05:43):
she's a parent, she's justworried.
I'm just going to do whatever Iwant to do.
And I started talking to peoplethrough, like, online games.
I've always been a supercurious person.
I loved meeting differentpeople and that was just my like
outlet at that time.
And, yeah, and I talked to someamazing people who, like,
changed my life and we're stillfriends today and I tell people
(06:04):
we went through marriages,divorces, miscarriages, children
moving different places, all ofit.
And then I've met people whocompletely changed my life in
terms of like, in a not greatway.
So I had a lot of traumaticincidents and I didn't realize
as a child that I was talking topredators.
So your parents talk about,like, bad guys or people who are
not good, but you're notrealizing that those people can
(06:26):
be the people that you find tobe your friends.
And so there have been researchon what kids view as predators
and when we tell them aboutpredators, they're thinking oh,
some guy in their basement who'ssweaty, who has big glasses,
who looks a certain way he'seating Cheetos.
That's the viewpoint.
He's in a hoodie.
(06:47):
He hasn't showered in threeweeks, that's our idea.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Right, we get this persona in our mind.
Right, the scary bad guy.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Exactly.
And kids?
The answers to the researcherswere oh, they can't be a
predator because he looks cute.
They can't be a predatorbecause that's my friend's
brother.
They can't be a predatorbecause he looks cute.
They can't be a predatorbecause that's my friend's
brother.
They can't be a predatorbecause we go to the same school
, like that's their idea.
And so I realized, oh my God,we really are disconnected.
And so I met a lot of peopleonline games, and one of them
(07:17):
that I met ended up changing mylife and because we formed like
a relationship, we were havingfun and I wanted to go meet him,
and so we decided to meet, likeat a park, and I was going to
go meet him and I was packing upmy bags and I had already
decided that if my mom had saidanything, I was just going to go
and, like, run away.
(07:39):
I was going to go move in withhim because he was older than me
, he was around like 40 yearsold, so, and this is when I was
16.
So it was like three years intome doing whatever I wanted to
do online and I had hideverything from my parents.
She did phone check-ins, itdidn't matter.
I deleted everything.
So, um, and I I, before I leftthe house, I had this sinking
feeling of like you know what?
(07:59):
You should just at least tellyour mom where you're going,
just in case you need she needsto know where you are.
That was it.
I wasn't really asking forpermission, I was just saying,
hey, I'm going to meet this guyat the park and I told her and I
thought that she'd be superupset with me and I wanted that
to like basically validate thereason why I was just going to
go and move in with him because,like, oh, she's just
overbearing, she's controlling,she wants me to live a certain
(08:20):
way.
And she didn't do that and I wasshocked.
I was like wait a minute, she'snot reacting the way that I
thought a parent would react.
And she just was like calm andconsiderate, and she just asked
me questions.
She was like, basically, myfriend.
She was like, oh, cool, like,tell me more about this guy.
She wasn't like cool, this isthe greatest thing ever.
We're just like oh, okay, likethat's interesting.
I didn't know this was happening.
(08:41):
I had no idea you're talking topeople online, did not know
that you're talking, like okay,and she made it super normal for
me and I didn't feel judged.
I told her a bunch ofinformation and I didn't feel
like she was trying to be nosy,I just felt like she really
wanted to know more informationand that changed my perspective
on her and it kind of.
And then she just gave mecertain things to think about.
(09:02):
Just feel like you know, if heever says this, it makes you
feel uncomfortable.
That's not really good.
You don't want someone who saysthat to you and I'm like, oh,
she's being really practical inthis moment.
So then I started thinking backto the conversations I had with
him and it was not good.
There were not goodconversations and I realized
maybe he's not a safe person andso I didn't go that day and I
(09:28):
started to confide in my mom formore things and she found out a
lot of things that shocked herand she's still traumatized by
it today.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I'm quite sure, but we can handle this though, right
, that's just a long story shortof how I got started.
Yes, it's so important for us toknow your own personal journey
because when, when you'reworking out of a place of your
own personal experience, that'swhere you're able to serve
people on the deepest level.
(09:54):
And so the fact that you'vebeen there yourself, what?
What started out as likeinnocent games and like checking
out this new smartphone, right,and like playing games that
probably were perfectly benign,but then kind of going down
those rabbit holes of meetingpeople and then getting curious
(10:15):
about that and then wanting togo and meet this person you know
in in the flesh, is like for usto know that, like that that's.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's my pleasure you know and to be willing to share
your journey with us from achild's perspective.
It took a long time, yeah, yeah, and it's opening my eyes too.
I'm thinking that was soawesome of your mom to not be
like what you're doing, whatthis man is 40 years old and
(10:49):
you're 16.
I don't think so, because as atherapist for 20 years, I know
what that does to kids,immediately shuts them down.
It's like, oh, now I'm notgoing to tell you, I'm just
going to go do what I wantbecause you are not a safe place
.
There's so much judgment andshame here.
This ain't happening.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Exactly.
And it's interesting becauseshe told me, as I wanted to know
her mindset in that moment.
I was like, how were you notable to react?
And she told me her whole lifewas falling apart.
So she was married to my dadfor 17 years and she got a
divorce from him.
She was, I think, one of thefirst divorces in her family and
her siblings.
She got a divorce from him.
She was, I think, one of thefirst divorces in her family and
her siblings.
So that was not a thing in ourfamily to get a divorce like
(11:28):
that, and it took her a longtime to do that she did.
She was just like you know what?
This is best for me, it's bestfor my child.
I think it's great.
You know my dad's great, butthey're just not a match.
And and then she felt she wasgoing through like a crisis as
woman and like what we gothrough in life and what you
have to give up and what youhave to do, and she was losing
herself and she was goingthrough a spiritual crisis and
(11:49):
she was like the one thing thatwas keeping her going was me.
And to know that she had lostme and she was like, wow, like
am I such a bad person, am Isuch a bad mom, that I thought I
was doing things right andeverything around me is
crumbling and falling apart?
And she thought this was goingto be her last conversation with
me and so in her eyes she waslike what's the last thing I
(12:10):
could tell her, what's the lastexperience I want her to have
with me Because she's going torun away?
She knew in her head that I washardheaded.
I did what I want.
If I could hide my life andlive a double life for three
years because I was top Astudent Dean's list, golden
child, every parent was like Iwish my daughter was like you.
So I was living a stark,completely different life.
(12:32):
And so she was like okay, ifshe felt this unsafe with me to
live this double life for solong and to get to the point
where she, as a young girl, isgoing to go and run away with a
guy who's like not even twiceher age is that means that
something's really, really wrongand I really messed up.
And so she was like this isgoing to be our last
conversation.
I don't want her to leave withme yelling and screaming and
(12:55):
trying to control her.
Clearly I can't control her, sothat's out of the world and in
our inner space right now.
And she felt like she didn'twant me to feel safer with a
predator than I did with her.
She was like if she didanything negative in that moment
negative as a teen, not anegative as an adult perspective
it would push me into his arms,versus her arms, and that's
exactly what I would have done.
Like you said, I would haveshut down.
(13:16):
I would have been like oh, thisis not a safe space, he's right
.
Like he's a nonjudgmental space.
He accepts me for who I am.
Obviously, at 16, when my brainis not developing some 60 years,
they're great.
I was not that 16-year-old.
I was very mature, but I wasnot mature enough to know that I
was being groomed, that someonewho's around 40 years old
should not be talking to someonewho's 16.
You know that logically.
(13:37):
But when you connect with ahuman being, it's like
especially with the and I loveyour point of view on this as a
therapist especially with themessages that teen girls get
about being more mature thanguys, which is probably true,
but we have to be careful how wesay that we age quicker than
they do that typically, a guy,mentally, is going to be like 10
years younger than us, so youhave to go a little bit 10 years
(14:00):
older, and so those are themessages that I'm getting
through media and people.
So I'm thinking like what'swrong to be with someone who's a
little bit older, and so thenuance of the conversation needs
to be had, where, yeah, weprobably do mature quicker, but
we have to have a lot morenuances in these conversations.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yes, 100%.
I think we give young girls thewrong message, just about like,
oh yeah, you're, you're so farpast these, you know immature
boys in your class and, um, youcould really misinterpret that
as a young woman, right?
Like, yeah, I'm, I'm beyondthis and so it makes sense for
(14:37):
me to seek out a relationshipfor somebody with somebody that
is you know more my maturitylevel and what's wrong.
That's like 20 years.
What's what's 20 years?
Like it's you know, he's hip,he's cool.
Like this can work out and youjust start rationalizing.
You know all the ways that thiscould really mean something and
(14:58):
and be something in the future.
So it is very important for usto make sure our kids know their
value and their worth and thattheir brains aren't at a point,
even though their bodies may bemore mature, that their brain
development really isn't to thatpoint where you're making sound
(15:21):
, rational decisions aboutsomething that is like, in my
opinion, one of the mostimportant decisions you'll make
in your entire life, like whoyou choose for a spouse.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right, Right and then , honestly, even when you choose
someone your age like whenyou're talking to someone you
don't know, it's like the redflags of speaking to somebody.
So, like recently, I think it's, a Wall Street Journal did a
whole like investigation into apredator ring online and they're
using Roblox and Discord andMinecraft and different online
games to rile up children andthey were using TikTok and
(15:52):
social media platforms as welland they were saying the guy who
started it, I believe he waslike 25 years old, and there are
boys in there and it's not allboys that are predators,
obviously, but typically it isboys, unfortunately, and they
were.
The guy who started, I believe,was 25 years old and then the
youngest that they arrested waslike 17 years old.
(16:12):
That was a part of this, thispredator rank, and so sometimes
cause I've talked to people andthey're like, well, like my kid
doesn't do that, or like theywould be like I, as a teen, I
never talked to someone who'solder.
I only talked to people my ageand I'm like, well, even if you
did talk to people your age,there's still people who don't
mean well, it doesn't matter,even if your child is not online
, you still have events forfamilies and children.
(16:35):
You still have places wherechildren gather.
Predators are going to be there.
You still have your familygatherings.
You don't know who's uncle,who's aunt, who's whatever a
family friend who comes toThanksgiving and you think
they're just like oh, there's afamily friend, and so it's
something that we all have to beaware of in many aspects.
But there's just so manydifferent layers to it, and I
thought the maturity layer forme was interesting and the way
(16:58):
that we talked to girls about it.
That can be really impactful,because I mean telling them that
what do you have in common?
Or why is he talking to someone10 years younger?
I don't think those things work.
I think it's better for us tofocus on.
What does an uncomfortablefeeling feel like?
If you're having this feeling,or if someone's telling you to
do something, or they're askingyou to do something, or they're
(17:19):
trying to impede on yourboundaries, or they're saying
they're going against somethingthat makes you feel comfortable,
then that's what we want to payattention to, and I feel as
though we put too much focussometimes on things that teens
don't really care about, and sothat's why we're losing them.
Like as adults, we can talkabout it because, like, I'm
curious about like how we are asa society.
(17:39):
But it can be challenging whenyou're talking to teens about
that, because that doesn'treally matter.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yes, I appreciate that you're getting at the root
of this instead of, like youtalked about at the beginning,
some of these kind of cheap tipsabout like don't do that and
block this and have all thesetypes of you know locks on on
the phones and these differentthings on the phones and these
different things.
So it's like what not to do.
But you're coming at it fromlike that root level.
Instead of plucking off thedandelion heads and like just
(18:13):
waiting for them to pop back up,you know, you're like getting
out there, digging deep, gettingthe roots out and like, okay,
the grass is going to be greenfor a long time because we did
the hard work and went deep withthese kids.
So I appreciate that you'resaying like let's talk more
about you know, safety andconversations, being a safe
(18:33):
place for them to land the planewhen they feel uncomfortable
and they have that feeling deepinside.
That is like this this doesn'tseem right that you are the
place, as the parent, where theycan come, maybe with their tail
between their legs, and go oh,I did a thing, or this person
said this thing, or the doorbellis going to ring in a minute
(18:55):
and it's going to be this personthat I agreed to meet with
Right.
So you're encouraging parents,and is that what this safe
method is all about?
That you're talking about, thatyou developed.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Absolutely yes.
It came from that conversationthat I had with my mother, and
it came from me talking tofamilies around the world about
what worked and what didn't work, and every single family said
the same exact thing I said andI just had a feeling that this
was going to be better.
And so when I did a lot ofresearch on it and, of course,
looking into, like, thepsychology of it because I'm not
(19:27):
a psychiatrist, I'm not apsychologist and I realized I
deeply resonate with the therapybeing a main aspect of
protecting your kids online, andso I safe method is based off
of that.
So you're creating safe spaces,you're accountable.
So if you say I'm not going toyell at you, you don't yell at
them.
And when you do yell at thembecause you will mess up and
(19:48):
things will happen that you goback and you apologize.
And then fun you have fun,you're joyful, you're expressing
joy, you're engaging in thingsthat they love or you're sharing
fun videos with them, and thenE is empathy, so you're putting
yourself in their shoes.
You can't protect your childonline if you don't know what
their mindset is, what they'redoing, and I'm not saying that
(20:08):
you have to know all of theiractivities.
But you just need to be likewhen I was a kid what did I want
?
What was something I felt likemy parents got wrong?
What can I ask my child Likehey, is there something that I
keep telling you about internetsafety?
Like don't do this?
And you think it's stupid?
That's one way to like open upthe the conversation and listen
to them, and listen tounderstand versus to respond.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So good Listen to understand versus to respond.
I'm going to underscore thatbecause I think so often as a
parent.
I have three kids 18, 12, and10 right now and, depending on
your state of mind as a parent,if you're overstressed you
haven't slept in a while youknow you've got a big project
that's weighing you down at workor something and then your kid
comes to you with something thatthey want to share.
That is either new news to you,right?
(20:58):
It's something like oh, haven'theard this one before.
You have to work really hard tokind of take the deep inhale
and exhale not as a sigh likeyou're driving me nuts right now
, I don't have time for you buta kind of a cleansing breath and
then just listen right Withthat empathy and try to
understand what, respond, to saysomething, to offer advice or
(21:21):
to dish out a fast consequence.
Give me your phone To delaythat with confidence that if you
(21:43):
sit through the conversation inan empathic way and you lean in
and really truly listen to whatwords they're using, what their
affect is like, what the toneof their voice seems like, if
they seem to be, you know,ashamed or feeling guilty about
it, that gets you closer to aresponse that's going to create
(22:05):
that safe landing zone for themto kind of land the plane and
tell you more.
So I think it's hard as aparent, right, because we're
going and meeting ourselves,coming and going and life is so
busy.
But this is worth it, like athousand percent worth it to put
your phone down and to connect,make eye contact and really
(22:30):
listen, to see what your kidsare revealing to you.
And then, like you said, if youpromise not to yell at them,
you can't yell In our house,frida, I have to tell you.
So we came up with this rule.
It was about five years ago andwe call it the honesty
incentive rule.
Like we don't say that to ourkids, but between us as husband
(22:52):
and wife, we call it the honestyincentive rule and what it is
is.
We tell our kids if you tell ussomething before we catch you
doing something wrong and youcome and admit to us yourself
and take accountability for it,zero consequences.
I love that.
If we find out you've donesomething you're not supposed to
(23:13):
do and you haven't told us,there might be some consequences
to that.
That's so good.
In this process it's beenamazing how did our kids just
come running up and dumpeverything they've ever done
that we didn't know about.
No, but they found somethingthat seemed safe enough to tell
us to test this new rule to seeif we were legit on it, and when
(23:38):
they realized we weren't givinga consequence or we weren't
having this blown up reaction,then they shared a little bit
more.
Shared a little bit more.
Now our hearts are a littleheavy these days because they I
feel like they've sharedeverything which, like you said,
yeah, this is going to happenand it's a little bit much,
(23:58):
because you just have no ideawhat your kids have bumped into,
even as super young kids.
And so we can handle thatbecause we've put this rule in
place and we have done what wesaid we're going to do.
So they keep coming back andback and honestly, I'm convinced
, like you said, there is noamount of like protection on the
(24:19):
phone and social media and allthat stuff that we're like
locked down and like be on highalert and keep record of how
many times they've done this orthat on these games or whatever
that is going to help them, likea safe conversation and that
solid foundational relationshipyou're talking about will do for
them because you are themonitoring device.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I always tell parents that like, yes, I'm an internet
safety expert, but you are theexpert in yourself and your
child and because of that,you're the best monitoring
device, the best parentalcontrol, the best everything for
your child.
I don't mean that you don'thave it if you don't want it.
I have this a whole otherconversation about parental
monitoring apps and the dangersof that, but in terms of a
(25:02):
cybersecurity perspective.
But you can have those, butjust don't ever rely on them.
Ever, ever, ever.
You have to rely on yourself,rely on your child and your
relationship with them, becausethey will tell you things that
the monitoring device can'tcan't tell you.
They're going to tell you theirfears.
They're going to tell you theirworries.
They'll tell you I mean, onceyou open up that door, you're
(25:22):
going to be it's, it's heavy.
They're going to give youeverything and I gave my mom
everything and and, of course,there are going to be certain
things that they keep tothemselves, but it's just
because they're trying to workthrough it and they're trying to
figure out.
How do I say this?
But the conversations you havewith them, with things that you
do know, will help you with thethings that you don't know.
And so they're watching veryclosely and they're feeling all
(25:43):
of your reactions to them and,most especially, one thing we
never not taught, we don't talkabout very much, is their react,
your reaction to other people.
So if there's a kid who metsomebody on Roblox and it comes
up on the news while you guysare eating dinner or or on the
morning commute or whatever itis, and you're like, oh, that's
so stupid, like why would theymeet someone from online game?
(26:05):
Now your child's like, oh, holdon, I thought I had a face
space.
Oh my God, I can't say any.
Ok, ok, I can never tell themthat because they think I'm
stupid.
Then they're going to judge me,they're going to take away my
phone.
So it's like you have to be somindful of what you say about
what someone else is goingthrough.
You know, samantha did that atschool.
That's so crazy.
I didn't know that she wastalking to some crazy guy online
(26:27):
.
That's insane.
Like she met him at the mall.
Oh my God, who does that thesedays?
And your child is overhearingthis conversation.
So being super mindful aboutthat too.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Oh, my goodness, I'm just over here going, yes, yes,
like they tune in and noticeeverything.
Our child just told us about anincident at school where he was
struggling with somethingpersonally and the group
discussion that the teacher wasfacilitating was about that
issue and there was so muchshame that the teacher was kind
(26:59):
of putting on this issue to allthe kids and then a lot of the
kids were chiming in and beinglike, yeah, that's horrible,
like you're going to rot in helland this is you know and and my
son was, like I knew instantlylike okay, not like, not safe to
talk about this, and like right, so they tune in and they're
hearing all of our conversationsand they are computing their
(27:24):
minds.
Are, you know, like safe, notsafe?
Is it open space?
Is it like, am I going to becondemned for this or for
admitting this or acknowledgingthis?
And so thank you for remindingus that we need to be the same
person everywhere we go, as weare when we're one-on-one with
our kids, and that's why doingthe inner work is important.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's why I so appreciate the work that you do
and have done, because if you'renot doing the inner work with
yourself, you're havingself-judgment for yourself and
so it's so easy for you to judgeother people in that way.
And I'm not saying we're human,we're going to think something,
but are you correcting yourself?
Are you going?
Wait a minute?
You know, I originally thoughtthat was stupid, but then, when
I'm thinking about it, I'mrealizing that maybe they're
(28:08):
going through this and maybethey're going through that.
I remember when I was a kid Iwent through that.
So if you catch yourself, youcan always go back and that can
help your child, because yourchild may need that inner
dialogue, said in a way that'soutside of your head, right?
So they may be thinkingsomething, or maybe someone told
them that what they think orwhat they do or what they feel
is stupid and you, walking backyour statement with other
(28:30):
statements, can help them walkback someone else's statement or
their statement to themselves.
So when you make a mistake andI always tell parents this is
the best thing ever when youmake a mistake, I view mistakes
as a parent.
This is from a child's point ofview and working with thousands
of families, I view it as likefor instance, let's say, you
bought like a really beautiful,amazing mug on Amazon and it's
so pretty, it's so gorgeous.
(28:51):
And it comes like five dayslate and you're kind of upset
about it because you hadsomething that you wanted to use
the mug for.
But you're like okay, fine, itfinally came.
And then you open up thepackage and the package is like
the mug is broken.
And now you're like, oh, my God, god, like the mug is broken,
what's going on?
And so you contact amazonsupport.
Amazon support is like oh, I'mso sorry this happened.
And this is not.
This is unprecedented.
(29:11):
We're going to get you a newmug.
In fact, we're going to refundyou and give you five new mugs,
and then we're going to give youa 500 gift card.
Now you're like, oh, this isthe best day in the world, like
this is great.
So that's how I view you makinga mistake as a parent and then
walking it back.
When you make that mistake andyou walk it back, it's actually
a way better experience for yourchild than if you were perfect
the first time.
Being perfect is great forevery now and then your child
(29:34):
doesn't need you to be perfectall the time, because if you are
, they believe that they have tobe perfect all the time, that
they start hiding what they'redoing because you are too
perfect.
So when you mess up in front ofthem, when you're like, oh my
God, I'm so busy, they can tellthat you don't have time for
them.
They can tell that you're beingshort with them.
If you just go, you know whatI'm sorry.
Like you said, take a deepbreath.
(29:55):
Okay, can we talk after dinner?
Because I'm going to be alittle bit more in my headspace,
so let's talk more.
Driving you to school orwhatever it is that helps you be
in a better headspace beforebedtime.
Then your child's like, okay,you're not acting like you have
space for me, and you're justlike, yeah, okay, and sometimes
you have to do that.
Sometimes you're like I knowthat there's no space, like I
have to do this now.
I have to take a deep breathnow and listen to you now.
(30:15):
But, whatever it is, if youyell at them, okay, you, you
know, maybe raising your voices,whatever it is, you're a human
being.
It's great that you makemistakes.
I think it's perfect, it'sawesome.
It shows your child that lifeis life, that they can make
(30:36):
mistakes and you can walk backfrom them.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yes, absolutely Forgiveness, making amends right
.
We as parents are rupturingrelationships left and right and
I love how you said like youcan take these ruptures and you
can make amends and you canrepair those.
And those are opportunities foryour kids to realize that they
(31:00):
are going to make mistakes.
And it's actually expected,because it's part of human
development is that we bump intosomething, we do it wrong, we
go oops, okay, let's try the,you know, the door on the left
instead.
Oh, that one didn't work either.
Shucks, I'm so sorry, like Ikeep getting this wrong, but I
(31:25):
think this is such an importantconversation for parents to
really consider is that you knowyou're not going to lose your
power or your authority byapologizing and admitting that
you got something wrong.
As a parent, your kids areactually going to have a higher
level of respect for you whenyou come down to their level and
say I messed up again and youknow what.
(31:48):
I'm committed to getting thisright.
I'm going to do what I can tofigure out how to do better in
this particular area and I hopethat you could forgive me.
Your level of respect with themjust soars when you have that
kind of conversation with them.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Absolutely.
I mean there's no way that youlose your power.
You lose your power when you'reuncontrollable in your own self
, when you can't controlyourself and you have no idea
how to self-regulate.
When you're frantic and anxiousabout every tiny thing.
I'm not saying that you'reanxious in general because
you're worried about yourchild's safety.
I mean every little tiny thingwhere you're jumpy, where you're
scared, where you're like oh myGod, don't do that.
(32:23):
Oh my God, why did you do that?
Oh my God, why I told you notto do that?
That's when you're losing yourpower.
You already feel that like thisjumpiness.
But when you're able to justhave a moment, relax, take a
moment for yourself, giveyourself, then tell yourself
good things, things that aretrue.
Tell yourself like Marissa PeerI love Marissa Peer.
She says, like tell yourself abetter story.
Like the story that you'retelling yourself is a story.
(32:45):
So what story works better atthis moment?
How can you give yourself, yourinner child, a safer space?
Because you can't give yourchild a safe space if you have
not figured out how to give yourown inner child a safe space.
It's not going to be easy, butit's going to be much simpler if
you're able to understand whatit took for you to give yourself
that safe space.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yes, agree 100%, and that's why I talk to parents in
therapy who are like help mefigure out the exact right
parenting technique for this orfor this particular temperament
or this particular issue, and Iask them to dial it back and
like spend less time looking forthe parenting hacks on
Instagram or Pinterest orwhatever, and like put the books
(33:29):
down about parenting and reallyget into your own work.
Like especially when your kidsare very young and the issues
that they're dealing with are sosmall and the consequences are
not life-threatening, that isthe best time to invest in your
own mental health and your ownhealing up that inner child so
(33:49):
that you are prepared and filledup to give them the best.
Love you.
And so I love how you said that.
Like you know, if you screw up,take some time to go over the
story of what it is that you'retelling yourself about, what you
just did, maybe even write itout.
I'd love to journal this andwrite out the story and really
(34:12):
get into the feelings and thethoughts that you were having
during that time that you yelledat your kids or you reacted in
a way that you felt guilty about, and then go through and kind
of edit it guilty about and thengo through and kind of edit it
right, like, be an editor and gooutside of yourself and change
some of those words so that it'sa story of, okay, if I did this
different, here's how it wouldhave felt instead, and then just
(34:33):
remind yourself oh, I'mforgiven, right, I've got
another chance.
There's 365 days in the year andalways another chance to make
things right.
So I want to kind of switch theconversation a little bit back
to OK.
So some of these parentslistening are like, but wait,
are there any like actualtactics for for cybersecurity
(34:53):
for my kids?
Because I get it like I have tobe the loving parent that is
like has this nice platform andsafe place for them to land.
But like, are there things Ishould be doing for sure when it
comes to online gaming or mykids being on social media, that
you would say, as acybersecurity expert, like okay,
for sure, like this is abaseline level of cyber, you
(35:15):
know, safety for your home.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Absolutely.
I mean, when your kids areyounger, like sticking to games.
Where it's not online games,that's the best.
And if it is an online game,you take off the chat and you
have, like more parentalcontrols in that aspect.
As they get older, you can tellthem hey, it's going to, we're
going to take some parentalcontrols off as you get older,
depending on your maturity level, but for now this is something
(35:39):
that's going to stay.
You can give a bunch ofanalogies to help them out in
that area, in terms of Iwouldn't let you go to the store
by yourself or the park byyourself.
There's always going to be atrusted adult.
You're not at that age yet andpeople always ask me what age do
I allow them to do this, orallow them to be on these
platforms or allow them to nothave a lot of parental control?
So I'm like at the age wherethey can be at the home by
(36:00):
themselves and you will let themgo out by themselves and they
would go whatever visit familymembers or friends or go to the
mall.
If they're at that age theirmaturity level, responsibility,
you feel good.
That's the age that you can sayokay, we can take it off,
because now it's a whole otherpan of worries.
And then I would stay away fromthird I was about to say third
culture, but third partyparental controls, the parental
(36:24):
controls that are not made bythe apps you're using or the
computer that you're using sotypically.
And there's some outliers incompanies that I'm seeing slowly
come out, but a lot of themdon't have good security in the
backend, so it allows a predatoror a hacker to be able to track
whatever you're tracking.
So you are seeing where yourchild is, they can see where
your child is.
You're seeing your child'smessages, they see your child's
(36:46):
messages.
And there are certain apps thathave been hacked before and
leaked information aboutchildren messages, videos,
location, all of it and that'snot something that you want a
hacker to have.
So I always say stay away fromthose apps.
The safer apps are apps like theones that you already use.
You're using Microsoft.
You can use Microsoft FamilySafety, apple, apple Family
(37:06):
Sharing.
You have Google, google FamilyLinks, so those types of things.
You have Norton.
You can have the Norton FamilySuite.
There are certain things thatyou can use in programs that
you're already using.
They're on Roblox.
Use Roblox parental controls.
Every now and then there arecompanies that are a little bit
great.
They're, they're better attheir security and it could be
okay, but I like to typicallystick to that.
(37:28):
I haven't done my.
I have a cyber security partnerand we're doing research into
those third-party apps to give aranking of who has the best
cyber security.
So if you really need to usetheir apps, then you're good to
go awesome, and I'm assuming youhave more information about
this on your website.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I get your weekly email newsletter, which I love
because it has your sweet littleface and a video in it, and so
it's like, oh, I'm connectingwith her personally right Right
through my own email.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But what do you have in the way of resource?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Oh, I love that.
That's so awesome.
I love to read a personal emailthat feels like we've gotten to
know each other long before weactually met in person, and
that's exactly how your emailsare.
So what type of resources doyou have for parents?
What's kind of the journey thatthey would take to get started
learning more about onlinesafety and your safe method if
(38:22):
they engaged you on social mediaor your website?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I have a free Protect Kids Online resource library.
Inside of that I have a list ofthe unsafe parental control
apps and the safer parentalcontrol apps.
I have a Roblox safety guide.
I have Find Safer Games foryour Kids guide.
I have holistic like protectingyour kids from predators on
social media like TikTok,snapchat, instagram, and then,
of course, I have my ProtectKids Online membership that goes
(38:47):
deeper into all of the stepsyou need to take to keep your
kids safe in the digital agewhere everything is changing so
you're not losing your mind.
So that's like a community, asupport system, and then a
step-by-step resources andaccess to that.
So those are the two resourcesI highly recommend access to
that.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
So those are the two resources I highly recommend so
good Free resources, some paidresources.
You've got it all and I loveyour free tips on Instagram and
just a little short video clipsthat you do that really help us
with kind of one area of anissue, a problem issue that
we're thinking of with our kidsor having with our kids.
You do a great job and you havea massive amount of followers,
and you should, because thisinformation is so good, like
(39:28):
it's not just another parentinghack, it's getting at the root
of you know who are our kids andwhat is their dignity and worth
.
Do they know that?
Do they know that we're safe?
It's just so necessary.
Now I do have one little quickquestion before we kind of wrap
things up.
So you mentioned TikTok, youmentioned Snapchat.
(39:50):
So for me, as a therapist, theone app that I was always like
never, ever, ever will you havethis is Snapchat, because it
disappears, right, the contentdisappears after 24 hours or
whatever disappears, right, thecontent disappears after 24
hours or whatever.
So tell me from yourperspective, like, what's your
idea and your view on Snapchatfor kids, I mean?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Snapchat is just one aspect of it.
There's so many other appswhere messages can disappear.
They can make it do that onInstagram as well.
There's like a certain settingwhere you can have all your
messages disappear in 24 hours,and so there's many apps that do
that.
But, yes, I have an entirevideo actually on how to protect
your kids on Snapchat.
It's a very in-depth video onYouTube and a lot of parents
(40:32):
really loved it, and it changedtheir perspective on how to
protect their kids on Snapchat.
I do agree, though, that if youcan wait, wait as long as
possible, you know, like thesocial media and games and all
this can of worms but if you'realready in the can of worms,
let's deal with it, because it'snot going to go away.
Just because you ban it doesn'tmean they're not going to be on
it, and especially if you banit and they're totally fine and
they have a don't have a tantrum, I would be like I would be
(40:54):
side eyeing that.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
So that's what it's like.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So so, yeah, I would definitely look at my video on
YouTube about that.
And then also, I, I a hundredpercent agree with you.
They're just certain apps wherethey just don't need to be on.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yes, yes, simplify this for our kids and, like you
said, making those analogies, Iwouldn't let you go to the mall
by yourself.
I wouldn't drop you off at agas station, you know on Colfax
Avenue or whatever, and likejust leave you there and be like
(41:31):
, yep, I think you can.
You got this right.
So, yes, as parents, we cannotabdicate our authority and our
our role as the primaryprotectors of our kids when it
comes to their safety.
So they're walking around withcomputers in their pockets a lot
of the times, and so it's veryimportant, like you said, when
you're already in the can ofworms too, and they already have
access to all these things, tokind of dial it back and go.
You know what.
We need to have someconversations that maybe we
haven't had yet.
And I'm learning more thingsabout, you know, cybersecurity
(41:54):
and predators and things likethat and let's just like talk
about this.
Let's have a safe, open kind ofplatform to just share, like,
what do you know and what areyou hearing from your friends?
And here's what I'munderstanding more about as I
learn about these different appsand social media and things
like this.
Like nothing's off limits here.
(42:14):
Let's just share what we knowand kind of get the conversation
started.
So this is like something thatisn't taboo or something that we
find out 20 years later whenour child is like really and
truly like kidnapped and off insome weird you know, corner of
the world with a predator.
Exactly, exactly that Well, youhave really blessed our
(42:38):
community, frida.
This has been such a lovelyconversation.
Thank you for doing what you'redoing to empower parents to
protect their kids online andjust everywhere you mentioned,
you know, with their friends andwith family members, like
predators, and abuse happensreally close to your home and
(43:01):
it's actually more prevalentwith people that you're in close
relationships with than a totaland complete stranger.
So I appreciate that, whilekind of your platform is about
protecting kids online, yourultimate message is about
parents having those safeconversations and really doing
their own inner work so thatthey can provide this beautiful
platform for their kids to talkabout anything and share
(43:21):
anything and get the help andprotection, and really doing
their own inner work so thatthey can provide this beautiful
platform for their kids to talkabout anything and share
anything and get the help andprotection that they need.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Thank you, jordan.
I appreciate you so much.
This has been a lovelyconversation.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I appreciate you Well keep doing what you're doing.
We are gonna share this messagefar and wide.
If you have heard this todayand any of this has resonated
with you, please forward this onnumber one to your spouse.
Okay, go to YouTube and watchthis video with your spouse on
the families of characterchannel and make sure that
(43:55):
you're you're watching this andand taking little notes and
having conversations about howyou can do things different at
your house, how you can forgive,how you can apologize, how you
can develop this safe place forthese conversations and then
start texting this episode outto everyone.
You know If you're listening onyour computer, because we send
(44:16):
these through the weekly emailnewsletters.
Forward the email on to as manypeople as you can so we can get
this message out far and wide,and hit up Cyber Frida on the
socials.
Okay, check her out onInstagram.
All of her links to her websiteand social media are in these
(44:36):
show notes.
Thank you for joining us, fridaand guys.
I'll catch you on anotherepisode of the Families of
Character show real soon.
Thank you.
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
If you have kids that areplaying online games like Roblox
or Fortnite or Minecraft, oryour kids have a phone and use
social media, you're going towant to tune in here and share
this episode with everyone inyour circles.
(00:22):
I have a cybersecurity experton the show today.
Welcome, farida.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Shahid, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Guys, this woman knows her stuff when it comes to
protecting kids online.
She's an award-winning internetsafety expert and a Forbes 30
under 30 honoree.
Her work has been featured onFox, the Wall Street Journal,
fortune, nbc, cnn and many othernews and media outlets.
(00:53):
Through her background incybersecurity awareness, threat
intelligence and online gaming,she has developed a unique
approach, called the safe method, to teach internet safety to
parents, our community bycentering the need for safe
spaces and connection as thefoundation to protecting kids
(01:16):
online.
I love that she is also thefounder of Secuba and the
Protect Kids Online membership,which I'll let Frida talk about
later.
Girl, I imagine you are so busythese days if your mission is
to help parents protect theirkids online.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I am, I really am.
It's the best thing ever.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, there's got to be a personal story here.
So how did you get into thiswork?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean, there's a professional background, you
know, going into corporate andworking in the cybersecurity
awareness and threatintelligence teams that let me
see what was going on in theback end that most people don't
see.
What are hackers and predatorsreally doing, what are they
going after and how they'regoing after it?
And at that point, when I wasworking in corporate, I did not
connect my own personalexperiences, so I was doing a
(02:11):
lot of workshops and a lot oflearnings for people internally
and like internal clients forcorporate around cybersecurity
awareness.
And, of course, a lot of peoplewere parents and they were
looking at me like you're kindof young, like you know I have a
teenager and like you're closerto their age than you are to
mine, and so like can you talk alittle bit more about like kids
(02:32):
online?
And I'm like, yeah, I could,but I'm not a parent, like I
don't want to talk about that.
That's, that's crazy.
And but to be honest, after Ihad many parents like I think,
uh think, within a year I had atleast 25, 50 parents and then
within five years I don't evenknow how many I lost count.
(02:52):
And so I started talking aboutinternet safety and then I was
looking online to see what otherpeople are saying about
protecting kids online, and Ifound it to be so out of touch.
The tips were out of touch.
It was cold, it was in thelaboratory, it was disconnected
from the reality of what kids gothrough online.
It was very like this is whatresearch says.
So tell your kids this, ordon't do this or do this, and
(03:14):
I'm like none of this works.
Most of it doesn't work.
I'm not going to say none of it, but most of it doesn't work,
and I fell into that trap too.
I'm not saying that everythingyou see online is bad.
I fall into the trap of sayingthings that it's like.
That's not necessarily, and Ifell into that.
Right now I changed the waythat I operate.
But when you learn cybersecurity, there's a certain way that you
say things to parents andyou're like tell your kids, for
(03:36):
instance, don't talk tostrangers online.
Or parents need to know morethan their kids.
They need to know the newestslang, the newest apps, they
need to know what their kids aredoing at all times.
They need to tell their kidsthat never to share.
There are certain things whereyou're like that's not realistic
, that's not rooted in reality,and so the reason why I started
doing it was like, okay, maybe Ihave some perspective to give
(03:57):
here, because I was a kid thatgamed online, that talked to
strangers, that did every singlething that I was not supposed
to do.
I don't think the tips don'twork because I did what I wasn't
supposed to do.
I just think they're notrealistic for the world that we
live in today, especially whenwe're talking about AI.
We're talking about kidstalking to these programs and
developing relationships andfollowing influencers online and
(04:18):
talking to people in onlinegames.
So my own story started thatway, where I the.
At first, I had one of thoselike phones.
I can't remember what they callthose phones, but it's like you
have to press like one buttonthree times in order to like
send one letter, like my littleNokia green lit up phone, and it
was like it was so cool.
(04:39):
It was.
It was great, and the onlything I had was like the I don't
know it was.
It was nice.
But the smartphone came out forlike the first time and I was
so excited about that and I toldI made a whole presentation to
my parents saying I would bekidnapped if I didn't get a
smartphone.
And I wanted, like because Isaid like imagine I'm in like
someone's trying to chase me andthen I'm trying to call you and
(05:00):
I have to press like fivedifferent buttons to get to you
and by that time I'm dead andI'm like I'm your only child,
and would you want to lose me?
You're good girl, you are good.
They're like you're being sodramatic.
This is not going to happen,but I think about like six
months later or something, theyended up giving me a smartphone
and so I was so happy because Icould move away from those snake
(05:21):
games and I could go to, likeyou know, the actual mobile
games that first started comingout.
And when I got those games, mymom sat me down and she was like
don't talk to strangers,especially not a man.
I was 13 years old at thispoint.
She said, like you know, don'tshare your location, your name,
don't share pictures the wholenine yards.
And I said, great, awesome.
And I was just like she doesn'tknow what she's talking about,
(05:43):
she's a parent, she's justworried.
I'm just going to do whatever Iwant to do.
And I started talking to peoplethrough, like, online games.
I've always been a supercurious person.
I loved meeting differentpeople and that was just my like
outlet at that time.
And, yeah, and I talked to someamazing people who, like,
changed my life and we're stillfriends today and I tell people
(06:04):
we went through marriages,divorces, miscarriages, children
moving different places, all ofit.
And then I've met people whocompletely changed my life in
terms of like, in a not greatway.
So I had a lot of traumaticincidents and I didn't realize
as a child that I was talking topredators.
So your parents talk about,like, bad guys or people who are
not good, but you're notrealizing that those people can
(06:26):
be the people that you find tobe your friends.
And so there have been researchon what kids view as predators
and when we tell them aboutpredators, they're thinking oh,
some guy in their basement who'ssweaty, who has big glasses,
who looks a certain way he'seating Cheetos.
That's the viewpoint.
He's in a hoodie.
(06:47):
He hasn't showered in threeweeks, that's our idea.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Right, we get this persona in our mind.
Right, the scary bad guy.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Exactly.
And kids?
The answers to the researcherswere oh, they can't be a
predator because he looks cute.
They can't be a predatorbecause that's my friend's
brother.
They can't be a predatorbecause he looks cute.
They can't be a predatorbecause that's my friend's
brother.
They can't be a predatorbecause we go to the same school
, like that's their idea.
And so I realized, oh my God,we really are disconnected.
And so I met a lot of peopleonline games, and one of them
(07:17):
that I met ended up changing mylife and because we formed like
a relationship, we were havingfun and I wanted to go meet him,
and so we decided to meet, likeat a park, and I was going to
go meet him and I was packing upmy bags and I had already
decided that if my mom had saidanything, I was just going to go
and, like, run away.
(07:39):
I was going to go move in withhim because he was older than me
, he was around like 40 yearsold, so, and this is when I was
16.
So it was like three years intome doing whatever I wanted to
do online and I had hideverything from my parents.
She did phone check-ins, itdidn't matter.
I deleted everything.
So, um, and I I, before I leftthe house, I had this sinking
feeling of like you know what?
(07:59):
You should just at least tellyour mom where you're going,
just in case you need she needsto know where you are.
That was it.
I wasn't really asking forpermission, I was just saying,
hey, I'm going to meet this guyat the park and I told her and I
thought that she'd be superupset with me and I wanted that
to like basically validate thereason why I was just going to
go and move in with him because,like, oh, she's just
overbearing, she's controlling,she wants me to live a certain
(08:20):
way.
And she didn't do that and I wasshocked.
I was like wait a minute, she'snot reacting the way that I
thought a parent would react.
And she just was like calm andconsiderate, and she just asked
me questions.
She was like, basically, myfriend.
She was like, oh, cool, like,tell me more about this guy.
She wasn't like cool, this isthe greatest thing ever.
We're just like oh, okay, likethat's interesting.
I didn't know this was happening.
(08:41):
I had no idea you're talking topeople online, did not know
that you're talking, like okay,and she made it super normal for
me and I didn't feel judged.
I told her a bunch ofinformation and I didn't feel
like she was trying to be nosy,I just felt like she really
wanted to know more informationand that changed my perspective
on her and it kind of.
And then she just gave mecertain things to think about.
(09:02):
Just feel like you know, if heever says this, it makes you
feel uncomfortable.
That's not really good.
You don't want someone who saysthat to you and I'm like, oh,
she's being really practical inthis moment.
So then I started thinking backto the conversations I had with
him and it was not good.
There were not goodconversations and I realized
maybe he's not a safe person andso I didn't go that day and I
(09:28):
started to confide in my mom formore things and she found out a
lot of things that shocked herand she's still traumatized by
it today.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I'm quite sure, but we can handle this though, right
, that's just a long story shortof how I got started.
Yes, it's so important for us toknow your own personal journey
because when, when you'reworking out of a place of your
own personal experience, that'swhere you're able to serve
people on the deepest level.
(09:54):
And so the fact that you'vebeen there yourself, what?
What started out as likeinnocent games and like checking
out this new smartphone, right,and like playing games that
probably were perfectly benign,but then kind of going down
those rabbit holes of meetingpeople and then getting curious
(10:15):
about that and then wanting togo and meet this person you know
in in the flesh, is like for usto know that, like that that's.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's my pleasure you know and to be willing to share
your journey with us from achild's perspective.
It took a long time, yeah, yeah, and it's opening my eyes too.
I'm thinking that was soawesome of your mom to not be
like what you're doing, whatthis man is 40 years old and
(10:49):
you're 16.
I don't think so, because as atherapist for 20 years, I know
what that does to kids,immediately shuts them down.
It's like, oh, now I'm notgoing to tell you, I'm just
going to go do what I wantbecause you are not a safe place
.
There's so much judgment andshame here.
This ain't happening.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Exactly.
And it's interesting becauseshe told me, as I wanted to know
her mindset in that moment.
I was like, how were you notable to react?
And she told me her whole lifewas falling apart.
So she was married to my dadfor 17 years and she got a
divorce from him.
She was, I think, one of thefirst divorces in her family and
her siblings.
She got a divorce from him.
She was, I think, one of thefirst divorces in her family and
her siblings.
So that was not a thing in ourfamily to get a divorce like
(11:28):
that, and it took her a longtime to do that she did.
She was just like you know what?
This is best for me, it's bestfor my child.
I think it's great.
You know my dad's great, butthey're just not a match.
And and then she felt she wasgoing through like a crisis as
woman and like what we gothrough in life and what you
have to give up and what youhave to do, and she was losing
herself and she was goingthrough a spiritual crisis and
(11:49):
she was like the one thing thatwas keeping her going was me.
And to know that she had lostme and she was like, wow, like
am I such a bad person, am Isuch a bad mom, that I thought I
was doing things right andeverything around me is
crumbling and falling apart?
And she thought this was goingto be her last conversation with
me and so in her eyes she waslike what's the last thing I
(12:10):
could tell her, what's the lastexperience I want her to have
with me Because she's going torun away?
She knew in her head that I washardheaded.
I did what I want.
If I could hide my life andlive a double life for three
years because I was top Astudent Dean's list, golden
child, every parent was like Iwish my daughter was like you.
So I was living a stark,completely different life.
(12:32):
And so she was like okay, ifshe felt this unsafe with me to
live this double life for solong and to get to the point
where she, as a young girl, isgoing to go and run away with a
guy who's like not even twiceher age is that means that
something's really, really wrongand I really messed up.
And so she was like this isgoing to be our last
conversation.
I don't want her to leave withme yelling and screaming and
(12:55):
trying to control her.
Clearly I can't control her, sothat's out of the world and in
our inner space right now.
And she felt like she didn'twant me to feel safer with a
predator than I did with her.
She was like if she didanything negative in that moment
negative as a teen, not anegative as an adult perspective
it would push me into his arms,versus her arms, and that's
exactly what I would have done.
Like you said, I would haveshut down.
(13:16):
I would have been like oh, thisis not a safe space, he's right
.
Like he's a nonjudgmental space.
He accepts me for who I am.
Obviously, at 16, when my brainis not developing some 60 years,
they're great.
I was not that 16-year-old.
I was very mature, but I wasnot mature enough to know that I
was being groomed, that someonewho's around 40 years old
should not be talking to someonewho's 16.
You know that logically.
(13:37):
But when you connect with ahuman being, it's like
especially with the and I loveyour point of view on this as a
therapist especially with themessages that teen girls get
about being more mature thanguys, which is probably true,
but we have to be careful how wesay that we age quicker than
they do that typically, a guy,mentally, is going to be like 10
years younger than us, so youhave to go a little bit 10 years
(14:00):
older, and so those are themessages that I'm getting
through media and people.
So I'm thinking like what'swrong to be with someone who's a
little bit older, and so thenuance of the conversation needs
to be had, where, yeah, weprobably do mature quicker, but
we have to have a lot morenuances in these conversations.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yes, 100%.
I think we give young girls thewrong message, just about like,
oh yeah, you're, you're so farpast these, you know immature
boys in your class and, um, youcould really misinterpret that
as a young woman, right?
Like, yeah, I'm, I'm beyondthis and so it makes sense for
(14:37):
me to seek out a relationshipfor somebody with somebody that
is you know more my maturitylevel and what's wrong.
That's like 20 years.
What's what's 20 years?
Like it's you know, he's hip,he's cool.
Like this can work out and youjust start rationalizing.
You know all the ways that thiscould really mean something and
(14:58):
and be something in the future.
So it is very important for usto make sure our kids know their
value and their worth and thattheir brains aren't at a point,
even though their bodies may bemore mature, that their brain
development really isn't to thatpoint where you're making sound
(15:21):
, rational decisions aboutsomething that is like, in my
opinion, one of the mostimportant decisions you'll make
in your entire life, like whoyou choose for a spouse.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right, Right and then , honestly, even when you choose
someone your age like whenyou're talking to someone you
don't know, it's like the redflags of speaking to somebody.
So, like recently, I think it's, a Wall Street Journal did a
whole like investigation into apredator ring online and they're
using Roblox and Discord andMinecraft and different online
games to rile up children andthey were using TikTok and
(15:52):
social media platforms as welland they were saying the guy who
started it, I believe he waslike 25 years old, and there are
boys in there and it's not allboys that are predators,
obviously, but typically it isboys, unfortunately, and they
were.
The guy who started, I believe,was 25 years old and then the
youngest that they arrested waslike 17 years old.
(16:12):
That was a part of this, thispredator rank, and so sometimes
cause I've talked to people andthey're like, well, like my kid
doesn't do that, or like theywould be like I, as a teen, I
never talked to someone who'solder.
I only talked to people my ageand I'm like, well, even if you
did talk to people your age,there's still people who don't
mean well, it doesn't matter,even if your child is not online
, you still have events forfamilies and children.
(16:35):
You still have places wherechildren gather.
Predators are going to be there.
You still have your familygatherings.
You don't know who's uncle,who's aunt, who's whatever a
family friend who comes toThanksgiving and you think
they're just like oh, there's afamily friend, and so it's
something that we all have to beaware of in many aspects.
But there's just so manydifferent layers to it, and I
thought the maturity layer forme was interesting and the way
(16:58):
that we talked to girls about it.
That can be really impactful,because I mean telling them that
what do you have in common?
Or why is he talking to someone10 years younger?
I don't think those things work.
I think it's better for us tofocus on.
What does an uncomfortablefeeling feel like?
If you're having this feeling,or if someone's telling you to
do something, or they're askingyou to do something, or they're
(17:19):
trying to impede on yourboundaries, or they're saying
they're going against somethingthat makes you feel comfortable,
then that's what we want to payattention to, and I feel as
though we put too much focussometimes on things that teens
don't really care about, and sothat's why we're losing them.
Like as adults, we can talkabout it because, like, I'm
curious about like how we are asa society.
(17:39):
But it can be challenging whenyou're talking to teens about
that, because that doesn'treally matter.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yes, I appreciate that you're getting at the root
of this instead of, like youtalked about at the beginning,
some of these kind of cheap tipsabout like don't do that and
block this and have all thesetypes of you know locks on on
the phones and these differentthings on the phones and these
different things.
So it's like what not to do.
But you're coming at it fromlike that root level.
Instead of plucking off thedandelion heads and like just
(18:13):
waiting for them to pop back up,you know, you're like getting
out there, digging deep, gettingthe roots out and like, okay,
the grass is going to be greenfor a long time because we did
the hard work and went deep withthese kids.
So I appreciate that you'resaying like let's talk more
about you know, safety andconversations, being a safe
(18:33):
place for them to land the planewhen they feel uncomfortable
and they have that feeling deepinside.
That is like this this doesn'tseem right that you are the
place, as the parent, where theycan come, maybe with their tail
between their legs, and go oh,I did a thing, or this person
said this thing, or the doorbellis going to ring in a minute
(18:55):
and it's going to be this personthat I agreed to meet with
Right.
So you're encouraging parents,and is that what this safe
method is all about?
That you're talking about, thatyou developed.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Absolutely yes.
It came from that conversationthat I had with my mother, and
it came from me talking tofamilies around the world about
what worked and what didn't work, and every single family said
the same exact thing I said andI just had a feeling that this
was going to be better.
And so when I did a lot ofresearch on it and, of course,
looking into, like, thepsychology of it because I'm not
(19:27):
a psychiatrist, I'm not apsychologist and I realized I
deeply resonate with the therapybeing a main aspect of
protecting your kids online, andso I safe method is based off
of that.
So you're creating safe spaces,you're accountable.
So if you say I'm not going toyell at you, you don't yell at
them.
And when you do yell at thembecause you will mess up and
(19:48):
things will happen that you goback and you apologize.
And then fun you have fun,you're joyful, you're expressing
joy, you're engaging in thingsthat they love or you're sharing
fun videos with them, and thenE is empathy, so you're putting
yourself in their shoes.
You can't protect your childonline if you don't know what
their mindset is, what they'redoing, and I'm not saying that
(20:08):
you have to know all of theiractivities.
But you just need to be likewhen I was a kid what did I want
?
What was something I felt likemy parents got wrong?
What can I ask my child Likehey, is there something that I
keep telling you about internetsafety?
Like don't do this?
And you think it's stupid?
That's one way to like open upthe the conversation and listen
to them, and listen tounderstand versus to respond.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So good Listen to understand versus to respond.
I'm going to underscore thatbecause I think so often as a
parent.
I have three kids 18, 12, and10 right now and, depending on
your state of mind as a parent,if you're overstressed you
haven't slept in a while youknow you've got a big project
that's weighing you down at workor something and then your kid
comes to you with something thatthey want to share.
That is either new news to you,right?
(20:58):
It's something like oh, haven'theard this one before.
You have to work really hard tokind of take the deep inhale
and exhale not as a sigh likeyou're driving me nuts right now
, I don't have time for you buta kind of a cleansing breath and
then just listen right Withthat empathy and try to
understand what, respond, to saysomething, to offer advice or
(21:21):
to dish out a fast consequence.
Give me your phone To delaythat with confidence that if you
(21:43):
sit through the conversation inan empathic way and you lean in
and really truly listen to whatwords they're using, what their
affect is like, what the toneof their voice seems like, if
they seem to be, you know,ashamed or feeling guilty about
it, that gets you closer to aresponse that's going to create
(22:05):
that safe landing zone for themto kind of land the plane and
tell you more.
So I think it's hard as aparent, right, because we're
going and meeting ourselves,coming and going and life is so
busy.
But this is worth it, like athousand percent worth it to put
your phone down and to connect,make eye contact and really
(22:30):
listen, to see what your kidsare revealing to you.
And then, like you said, if youpromise not to yell at them,
you can't yell In our house,frida, I have to tell you.
So we came up with this rule.
It was about five years ago andwe call it the honesty
incentive rule.
Like we don't say that to ourkids, but between us as husband
(22:52):
and wife, we call it the honestyincentive rule and what it is
is.
We tell our kids if you tell ussomething before we catch you
doing something wrong and youcome and admit to us yourself
and take accountability for it,zero consequences.
I love that.
If we find out you've donesomething you're not supposed to
(23:13):
do and you haven't told us,there might be some consequences
to that.
That's so good.
In this process it's beenamazing how did our kids just
come running up and dumpeverything they've ever done
that we didn't know about.
No, but they found somethingthat seemed safe enough to tell
us to test this new rule to seeif we were legit on it, and when
(23:38):
they realized we weren't givinga consequence or we weren't
having this blown up reaction,then they shared a little bit
more.
Shared a little bit more.
Now our hearts are a littleheavy these days because they I
feel like they've sharedeverything which, like you said,
yeah, this is going to happenand it's a little bit much,
(23:58):
because you just have no ideawhat your kids have bumped into,
even as super young kids.
And so we can handle thatbecause we've put this rule in
place and we have done what wesaid we're going to do.
So they keep coming back andback and honestly, I'm convinced
, like you said, there is noamount of like protection on the
(24:19):
phone and social media and allthat stuff that we're like
locked down and like be on highalert and keep record of how
many times they've done this orthat on these games or whatever
that is going to help them, likea safe conversation and that
solid foundational relationshipyou're talking about will do for
them because you are themonitoring device.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I always tell parents that like, yes, I'm an internet
safety expert, but you are theexpert in yourself and your
child and because of that,you're the best monitoring
device, the best parentalcontrol, the best everything for
your child.
I don't mean that you don'thave it if you don't want it.
I have this a whole otherconversation about parental
monitoring apps and the dangersof that, but in terms of a
(25:02):
cybersecurity perspective.
But you can have those, butjust don't ever rely on them.
Ever, ever, ever.
You have to rely on yourself,rely on your child and your
relationship with them, becausethey will tell you things that
the monitoring device can'tcan't tell you.
They're going to tell you theirfears.
They're going to tell you theirworries.
They'll tell you I mean, onceyou open up that door, you're
(25:22):
going to be it's, it's heavy.
They're going to give youeverything and I gave my mom
everything and and, of course,there are going to be certain
things that they keep tothemselves, but it's just
because they're trying to workthrough it and they're trying to
figure out.
How do I say this?
But the conversations you havewith them, with things that you
do know, will help you with thethings that you don't know.
And so they're watching veryclosely and they're feeling all
(25:43):
of your reactions to them and,most especially, one thing we
never not taught, we don't talkabout very much, is their react,
your reaction to other people.
So if there's a kid who metsomebody on Roblox and it comes
up on the news while you guysare eating dinner or or on the
morning commute or whatever itis, and you're like, oh, that's
so stupid, like why would theymeet someone from online game?
(26:05):
Now your child's like, oh, holdon, I thought I had a face
space.
Oh my God, I can't say any.
Ok, ok, I can never tell themthat because they think I'm
stupid.
Then they're going to judge me,they're going to take away my
phone.
So it's like you have to be somindful of what you say about
what someone else is goingthrough.
You know, samantha did that atschool.
That's so crazy.
I didn't know that she wastalking to some crazy guy online
(26:27):
.
That's insane.
Like she met him at the mall.
Oh my God, who does that thesedays?
And your child is overhearingthis conversation.
So being super mindful aboutthat too.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Oh, my goodness, I'm just over here going, yes, yes,
like they tune in and noticeeverything.
Our child just told us about anincident at school where he was
struggling with somethingpersonally and the group
discussion that the teacher wasfacilitating was about that
issue and there was so muchshame that the teacher was kind
(26:59):
of putting on this issue to allthe kids and then a lot of the
kids were chiming in and beinglike, yeah, that's horrible,
like you're going to rot in helland this is you know and and my
son was, like I knew instantlylike okay, not like, not safe to
talk about this, and like right, so they tune in and they're
hearing all of our conversationsand they are computing their
(27:24):
minds.
Are, you know, like safe, notsafe?
Is it open space?
Is it like, am I going to becondemned for this or for
admitting this or acknowledgingthis?
And so thank you for remindingus that we need to be the same
person everywhere we go, as weare when we're one-on-one with
our kids, and that's why doingthe inner work is important.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's why I so appreciate the work that you do
and have done, because if you'renot doing the inner work with
yourself, you're havingself-judgment for yourself and
so it's so easy for you to judgeother people in that way.
And I'm not saying we're human,we're going to think something,
but are you correcting yourself?
Are you going?
Wait a minute?
You know, I originally thoughtthat was stupid, but then, when
I'm thinking about it, I'mrealizing that maybe they're
(28:08):
going through this and maybethey're going through that.
I remember when I was a kid Iwent through that.
So if you catch yourself, youcan always go back and that can
help your child, because yourchild may need that inner
dialogue, said in a way that'soutside of your head, right?
So they may be thinkingsomething, or maybe someone told
them that what they think orwhat they do or what they feel
is stupid and you, walking backyour statement with other
(28:30):
statements, can help them walkback someone else's statement or
their statement to themselves.
So when you make a mistake andI always tell parents this is
the best thing ever when youmake a mistake, I view mistakes
as a parent.
This is from a child's point ofview and working with thousands
of families, I view it as likefor instance, let's say, you
bought like a really beautiful,amazing mug on Amazon and it's
so pretty, it's so gorgeous.
(28:51):
And it comes like five dayslate and you're kind of upset
about it because you hadsomething that you wanted to use
the mug for.
But you're like okay, fine, itfinally came.
And then you open up thepackage and the package is like
the mug is broken.
And now you're like, oh, my God, god, like the mug is broken,
what's going on?
And so you contact amazonsupport.
Amazon support is like oh, I'mso sorry this happened.
And this is not.
This is unprecedented.
(29:11):
We're going to get you a newmug.
In fact, we're going to refundyou and give you five new mugs,
and then we're going to give youa 500 gift card.
Now you're like, oh, this isthe best day in the world, like
this is great.
So that's how I view you makinga mistake as a parent and then
walking it back.
When you make that mistake andyou walk it back, it's actually
a way better experience for yourchild than if you were perfect
the first time.
Being perfect is great forevery now and then your child
(29:34):
doesn't need you to be perfectall the time, because if you are
, they believe that they have tobe perfect all the time, that
they start hiding what they'redoing because you are too
perfect.
So when you mess up in front ofthem, when you're like, oh my
God, I'm so busy, they can tellthat you don't have time for
them.
They can tell that you're beingshort with them.
If you just go, you know whatI'm sorry.
Like you said, take a deepbreath.
(29:55):
Okay, can we talk after dinner?
Because I'm going to be alittle bit more in my headspace,
so let's talk more.
Driving you to school orwhatever it is that helps you be
in a better headspace beforebedtime.
Then your child's like, okay,you're not acting like you have
space for me, and you're justlike, yeah, okay, and sometimes
you have to do that.
Sometimes you're like I knowthat there's no space, like I
have to do this now.
I have to take a deep breathnow and listen to you now.
(30:15):
But, whatever it is, if youyell at them, okay, you, you
know, maybe raising your voices,whatever it is, you're a human
being.
It's great that you makemistakes.
I think it's perfect, it'sawesome.
It shows your child that lifeis life, that they can make
(30:36):
mistakes and you can walk backfrom them.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yes, absolutely Forgiveness, making amends right
.
We as parents are rupturingrelationships left and right and
I love how you said like youcan take these ruptures and you
can make amends and you canrepair those.
And those are opportunities foryour kids to realize that they
(31:00):
are going to make mistakes.
And it's actually expected,because it's part of human
development is that we bump intosomething, we do it wrong, we
go oops, okay, let's try the,you know, the door on the left
instead.
Oh, that one didn't work either.
Shucks, I'm so sorry, like Ikeep getting this wrong, but I
(31:25):
think this is such an importantconversation for parents to
really consider is that you knowyou're not going to lose your
power or your authority byapologizing and admitting that
you got something wrong.
As a parent, your kids areactually going to have a higher
level of respect for you whenyou come down to their level and
say I messed up again and youknow what.
(31:48):
I'm committed to getting thisright.
I'm going to do what I can tofigure out how to do better in
this particular area and I hopethat you could forgive me.
Your level of respect with themjust soars when you have that
kind of conversation with them.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Absolutely.
I mean there's no way that youlose your power.
You lose your power when you'reuncontrollable in your own self
, when you can't controlyourself and you have no idea
how to self-regulate.
When you're frantic and anxiousabout every tiny thing.
I'm not saying that you'reanxious in general because
you're worried about yourchild's safety.
I mean every little tiny thingwhere you're jumpy, where you're
scared, where you're like oh myGod, don't do that.
(32:23):
Oh my God, why did you do that?
Oh my God, why I told you notto do that?
That's when you're losing yourpower.
You already feel that like thisjumpiness.
But when you're able to justhave a moment, relax, take a
moment for yourself, giveyourself, then tell yourself
good things, things that aretrue.
Tell yourself like Marissa PeerI love Marissa Peer.
She says, like tell yourself abetter story.
Like the story that you'retelling yourself is a story.
(32:45):
So what story works better atthis moment?
How can you give yourself, yourinner child, a safer space?
Because you can't give yourchild a safe space if you have
not figured out how to give yourown inner child a safe space.
It's not going to be easy, butit's going to be much simpler if
you're able to understand whatit took for you to give yourself
that safe space.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yes, agree 100%, and that's why I talk to parents in
therapy who are like help mefigure out the exact right
parenting technique for this orfor this particular temperament
or this particular issue, and Iask them to dial it back and
like spend less time looking forthe parenting hacks on
Instagram or Pinterest orwhatever, and like put the books
(33:29):
down about parenting and reallyget into your own work.
Like especially when your kidsare very young and the issues
that they're dealing with are sosmall and the consequences are
not life-threatening, that isthe best time to invest in your
own mental health and your ownhealing up that inner child so
(33:49):
that you are prepared and filledup to give them the best.
Love you.
And so I love how you said that.
Like you know, if you screw up,take some time to go over the
story of what it is that you'retelling yourself about, what you
just did, maybe even write itout.
I'd love to journal this andwrite out the story and really
(34:12):
get into the feelings and thethoughts that you were having
during that time that you yelledat your kids or you reacted in
a way that you felt guilty about, and then go through and kind
of edit it guilty about and thengo through and kind of edit it
right, like, be an editor and gooutside of yourself and change
some of those words so that it'sa story of, okay, if I did this
different, here's how it wouldhave felt instead, and then just
(34:33):
remind yourself oh, I'mforgiven, right, I've got
another chance.
There's 365 days in the year andalways another chance to make
things right.
So I want to kind of switch theconversation a little bit back
to OK.
So some of these parentslistening are like, but wait,
are there any like actualtactics for for cybersecurity
(34:53):
for my kids?
Because I get it like I have tobe the loving parent that is
like has this nice platform andsafe place for them to land.
But like, are there things Ishould be doing for sure when it
comes to online gaming or mykids being on social media, that
you would say, as acybersecurity expert, like okay,
for sure, like this is abaseline level of cyber, you
(35:15):
know, safety for your home.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Absolutely.
I mean, when your kids areyounger, like sticking to games.
Where it's not online games,that's the best.
And if it is an online game,you take off the chat and you
have, like more parentalcontrols in that aspect.
As they get older, you can tellthem hey, it's going to, we're
going to take some parentalcontrols off as you get older,
depending on your maturity level, but for now this is something
(35:39):
that's going to stay.
You can give a bunch ofanalogies to help them out in
that area, in terms of Iwouldn't let you go to the store
by yourself or the park byyourself.
There's always going to be atrusted adult.
You're not at that age yet andpeople always ask me what age do
I allow them to do this, orallow them to be on these
platforms or allow them to nothave a lot of parental control?
So I'm like at the age wherethey can be at the home by
(36:00):
themselves and you will let themgo out by themselves and they
would go whatever visit familymembers or friends or go to the
mall.
If they're at that age theirmaturity level, responsibility,
you feel good.
That's the age that you can sayokay, we can take it off,
because now it's a whole otherpan of worries.
And then I would stay away fromthird I was about to say third
culture, but third partyparental controls, the parental
(36:24):
controls that are not made bythe apps you're using or the
computer that you're using sotypically.
And there's some outliers incompanies that I'm seeing slowly
come out, but a lot of themdon't have good security in the
backend, so it allows a predatoror a hacker to be able to track
whatever you're tracking.
So you are seeing where yourchild is, they can see where
your child is.
You're seeing your child'smessages, they see your child's
(36:46):
messages.
And there are certain apps thathave been hacked before and
leaked information aboutchildren messages, videos,
location, all of it and that'snot something that you want a
hacker to have.
So I always say stay away fromthose apps.
The safer apps are apps like theones that you already use.
You're using Microsoft.
You can use Microsoft FamilySafety, apple, apple Family
(37:06):
Sharing.
You have Google, google FamilyLinks, so those types of things.
You have Norton.
You can have the Norton FamilySuite.
There are certain things thatyou can use in programs that
you're already using.
They're on Roblox.
Use Roblox parental controls.
Every now and then there arecompanies that are a little bit
great.
They're, they're better attheir security and it could be
okay, but I like to typicallystick to that.
(37:28):
I haven't done my.
I have a cyber security partnerand we're doing research into
those third-party apps to give aranking of who has the best
cyber security.
So if you really need to usetheir apps, then you're good to
go awesome, and I'm assuming youhave more information about
this on your website.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I get your weekly email newsletter, which I love
because it has your sweet littleface and a video in it, and so
it's like, oh, I'm connectingwith her personally right Right
through my own email.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But what do you have in the way of resource?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Oh, I love that.
That's so awesome.
I love to read a personal emailthat feels like we've gotten to
know each other long before weactually met in person, and
that's exactly how your emailsare.
So what type of resources doyou have for parents?
What's kind of the journey thatthey would take to get started
learning more about onlinesafety and your safe method if
(38:22):
they engaged you on social mediaor your website?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I have a free Protect Kids Online resource library.
Inside of that I have a list ofthe unsafe parental control
apps and the safer parentalcontrol apps.
I have a Roblox safety guide.
I have Find Safer Games foryour Kids guide.
I have holistic like protectingyour kids from predators on
social media like TikTok,snapchat, instagram, and then,
of course, I have my ProtectKids Online membership that goes
(38:47):
deeper into all of the stepsyou need to take to keep your
kids safe in the digital agewhere everything is changing so
you're not losing your mind.
So that's like a community, asupport system, and then a
step-by-step resources andaccess to that.
So those are the two resourcesI highly recommend access to
that.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
So those are the two resources I highly recommend so
good Free resources, some paidresources.
You've got it all and I loveyour free tips on Instagram and
just a little short video clipsthat you do that really help us
with kind of one area of anissue, a problem issue that
we're thinking of with our kidsor having with our kids.
You do a great job and you havea massive amount of followers,
and you should, because thisinformation is so good, like
(39:28):
it's not just another parentinghack, it's getting at the root
of you know who are our kids andwhat is their dignity and worth
.
Do they know that?
Do they know that we're safe?
It's just so necessary.
Now I do have one little quickquestion before we kind of wrap
things up.
So you mentioned TikTok, youmentioned Snapchat.
(39:50):
So for me, as a therapist, theone app that I was always like
never, ever, ever will you havethis is Snapchat, because it
disappears, right, the contentdisappears after 24 hours or
whatever disappears, right, thecontent disappears after 24
hours or whatever.
So tell me from yourperspective, like, what's your
idea and your view on Snapchatfor kids, I mean?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Snapchat is just one aspect of it.
There's so many other appswhere messages can disappear.
They can make it do that onInstagram as well.
There's like a certain settingwhere you can have all your
messages disappear in 24 hours,and so there's many apps that do
that.
But, yes, I have an entirevideo actually on how to protect
your kids on Snapchat.
It's a very in-depth video onYouTube and a lot of parents
(40:32):
really loved it, and it changedtheir perspective on how to
protect their kids on Snapchat.
I do agree, though, that if youcan wait, wait as long as
possible, you know, like thesocial media and games and all
this can of worms but if you'realready in the can of worms,
let's deal with it, because it'snot going to go away.
Just because you ban it doesn'tmean they're not going to be on
it, and especially if you banit and they're totally fine and
they have a don't have a tantrum, I would be like I would be
(40:54):
side eyeing that.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
So that's what it's like.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So so, yeah, I would definitely look at my video on
YouTube about that.
And then also, I, I a hundredpercent agree with you.
They're just certain apps wherethey just don't need to be on.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yes, yes, simplify this for our kids and, like you
said, making those analogies, Iwouldn't let you go to the mall
by yourself.
I wouldn't drop you off at agas station, you know on Colfax
Avenue or whatever, and likejust leave you there and be like
(41:31):
, yep, I think you can.
You got this right.
So, yes, as parents, we cannotabdicate our authority and our
our role as the primaryprotectors of our kids when it
comes to their safety.
So they're walking around withcomputers in their pockets a lot
of the times, and so it's veryimportant, like you said, when
you're already in the can ofworms too, and they already have
access to all these things, tokind of dial it back and go.
You know what.
We need to have someconversations that maybe we
haven't had yet.
And I'm learning more thingsabout, you know, cybersecurity
(41:54):
and predators and things likethat and let's just like talk
about this.
Let's have a safe, open kind ofplatform to just share, like,
what do you know and what areyou hearing from your friends?
And here's what I'munderstanding more about as I
learn about these different appsand social media and things
like this.
Like nothing's off limits here.
(42:14):
Let's just share what we knowand kind of get the conversation
started.
So this is like something thatisn't taboo or something that we
find out 20 years later whenour child is like really and
truly like kidnapped and off insome weird you know, corner of
the world with a predator.
Exactly, exactly that Well, youhave really blessed our
(42:38):
community, frida.
This has been such a lovelyconversation.
Thank you for doing what you'redoing to empower parents to
protect their kids online andjust everywhere you mentioned,
you know, with their friends andwith family members, like
predators, and abuse happensreally close to your home and
(43:01):
it's actually more prevalentwith people that you're in close
relationships with than a totaland complete stranger.
So I appreciate that, whilekind of your platform is about
protecting kids online, yourultimate message is about
parents having those safeconversations and really doing
their own inner work so thatthey can provide this beautiful
platform for their kids to talkabout anything and share
(43:21):
anything and get the help andprotection, and really doing
their own inner work so thatthey can provide this beautiful
platform for their kids to talkabout anything and share
anything and get the help andprotection that they need.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Thank you, jordan.
I appreciate you so much.
This has been a lovelyconversation.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I appreciate you Well keep doing what you're doing.
We are gonna share this messagefar and wide.
If you have heard this todayand any of this has resonated
with you, please forward this onnumber one to your spouse.
Okay, go to YouTube and watchthis video with your spouse on
the families of characterchannel and make sure that
(43:55):
you're you're watching this andand taking little notes and
having conversations about howyou can do things different at
your house, how you can forgive,how you can apologize, how you
can develop this safe place forthese conversations and then
start texting this episode outto everyone.
You know If you're listening onyour computer, because we send
(44:16):
these through the weekly emailnewsletters.
Forward the email on to as manypeople as you can so we can get
this message out far and wide,and hit up Cyber Frida on the
socials.
Okay, check her out onInstagram.
All of her links to her websiteand social media are in these
(44:36):
show notes.
Thank you for joining us, fridaand guys.
I'll catch you on anotherepisode of the Families of
Character show real soon.
Thank you.
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