Ep. #140: How to Accept Differences in Marriage with Dr. Mario Sacasa

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In our latest podcast episode, we're diving deep into the theme of accepting differences in marriage and how these unique traits can actually strengthen a relationship. Our special guest, Dr. Mario Sacasa, a seasoned marriage therapist and insightful speaker, shares his expertise on navigating the seemingly daunting waters of marital differences. He engages us in a rich dialogue about how understanding these disparities can pave the way for deeper connections, showcasing the beauty of our unique identities within the union.

This podcast covers:

• Importance of accepting and celebrating differences 
• Real-life examples from Dr. Sacasa's experiences 
• Practical advice for couples to communicate effectively 
• Strategies to utilize differences as strengths in marriage 
• Encouragement to keep dating and rediscovering each other 
• Discussion on supporting younger generations in dating 
• Insights into shifting perceptions of marriage among youth 
• Value of kindness and compassion in relationships 
• Call to action: Share the podcast with your partner 

Read the book Dr. Sacasa recommends in the show, Get Married by Brad Wilcox!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, parents, welcome back to our show.
I gotta thank you because thisis crazy.
Last week we had another recordof downloads, so you sharing
our episodes with your spouse,with your friends, your family
members, it is truly benefitingus so much.

(00:20):
So thank you for continuing toshare our message with people in
your circles and pleasecontinue to do that.
Also, I wanted to remind youthat we are on YouTube, so all
of our episodes are recorded onvideo, and so if you prefer to
kind of see who's talking to you, who the guest is on our show,
check us out on our YouTubechannel.

(00:41):
Just put in Families ofCharacter and we'll pop right up
.
So let's jump into today's topic.
If you ever think, man, myspouse and I are so different,
there's all these little thingswe do that are totally different
.
You are not alone.
Okay, this is normal inmarriage, but sometimes it can

(01:03):
cause some kind of lumps andbumps in our relationship and
these underlying annoyances thatjust sort of eat at us.
And so today I have on our showan expert not an expert
necessarily in differences orlumps and bumps, so to speak,
but an expert in marriage andfamily issues.

(01:24):
So welcome to the show, drMario Sacasa.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Thanks, thanks, jordan, so much for having me on
the podcast.
I'm so grateful to be here withyou.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
This is just going to be great.
I'm so glad you're joining us,guys.
Dr Sacasa is the host of hisown podcast called Always Hope,
and on his podcast he focuses onproviding solutions to life's
challenges that are grounded infaith and psychology.
And Dr Mario travels thecountry offering lectures on

(01:59):
dating, marriage, sexuality andthe misunderstood virtue of hope
.
He's also the creator of twoonline courses Dating Well,
which helps young adultsnavigate the modern dating scene
oh, thank you.
And Overcoming Stress andAnxiety, which offers clear

(02:20):
guidance for beating stress inlife.
And he's also married to hiswife, kristen, of 21 years, and
they share the joy of raisingfour sons.
So there you have it.
You are busy out thereparenting, psychology and all
the things.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Traveling and podcasting and all the things
and editing, which I failed todo because I've been married for
22 years now.
So I got to update that littlebio.
So before my wife gets me introuble or before I get in
trouble with my wife sorry,she's not going to get me in
trouble- Do you ever worry abouther listening to these episodes
?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Because I'm like man, no.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
No, no, she does, she does, she listens to it.
Yeah, we always have freeconversations afterwards.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, shout out to Kristen, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Thanks, she needs a shout out.
Shout out, kristen.
We love you, sweetie.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
That is awesome.
So tell us a little bit, mario,about just like your passion,
your own story around like thistopic of accepting differences
in your marriage.
Where does that come from foryou?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, well, I'll tell you where it comes from.
Before kind of going out on myown and doing this podcast on my
own and the speaking gigs andall that stuff, I was working
for a marriage ministry basedout of New Orleans for about six
years and in that marriageministry we would run marriage
retreats there.
Locally there was a beautifulAbbey on the north side of Lake
Pontchartrain, st Joseph's Abbey, and we had a nice retreat
center that was tailored tomarried couples, which, if

(03:49):
you've ever attended a marriageretreat or done a marriage
retreat, you know that actuallyfinding rooms that are tailored
to married couples is almostnon-existent.
And so the fact that you didn'thave to have two twins beds and
someone being uncomfortable,being like are we going to make
this awkward?
Is sleeping on the one twin orwe're going to try to put them
together, and someone sleepingin the crack Like how are we
doing this?
It was actually a queen bed.

(04:10):
So, anyways, great facilitythat we had and we would do
these retreats.
Well, at one point during theweekend we go from the retreat
center and walk over to theAbbey to join the monks for
evening prayer.
And one day, as we're takingthis walk over from the retreat
center to the Abbey church, oneof the attendees, one of the

(04:30):
wives, she goes.
You know, dr Mario, like of allthe things that you've learned
in your years of being amarriage therapist and doing
speak, engagements, this wholebit like what's the one bit of
advice, that's like the best bitof advice that you can give me.
And I was like, oh my gosh,like I was kind of on my heels
and just surprised by the, bythe question, and trying to
think real quick, and the firstthing that came out of my mouth

(04:51):
was that your spouse is adifferent person.
You know, and, and and it'slike we, we.
That may sound so obvious, butthe truth is that when we get
into arguments, when we intodisagreements, often we forget
that, yes, in fact, our spouseis a different person, and so
often the arguments that we getinto surround this notion of why

(05:14):
can't you just see the thingsthe way that I see them?
Why can't you just do thethings the way I want them to be
done?
Why can't you just read my mindand understand the world
exactly the way that Iunderstand it?
Because if you could just dothat, then this whole thing
would be a lot easier, which isalso a false statement, by the

(05:36):
way, because we argue withourselves probably more often
than we argue with anybody else,but we can save that for
another conversation.
But we do.
We get into this kind of tug ofwar, push and pull, and part of
marriage is learning how toovercome that and overcome our
own ego, but also recognizingthat conflict here doesn't

(05:58):
always have to result incompetition.
It doesn't have to result insomebody winning or losing.
It can simply just be thatthere is a difference.
That's here, and what I'mtrying to guide couples towards
and we can talk more about thisthroughout the episode is to try
to help them to recognize thatif they can have their eyes open
to these differences andrecognize that the differences

(06:21):
are in fact there, then we cansee that as an asset, we can see
that as a value, because thetruth is we'd probably be buried
I mean, excuse me, um, weprobably be bored if we married
somebody like ourselves.
Um, we need the difference.
You know, it's not so much thatopposites attract, but
opposites do compliment eachother.
And if we can see that the waythat my wife makes decisions,

(06:43):
the way that she thinks, the waythat she encounters the world
has value and the way that Iencounter the world has value,
and that together maybe thisgives more data to whatever
decision, whatever problem we'retrying to solve.
Then that's a much healthierway to move forward in marriage.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I like how you said that, just considering that it
provides more data to makedecisions, it's like it's not
just a one-sided perspectivethat we have, but, as a married
couple, there's anotherperspective that could be a real
benefit to navigating whateverit is that you're deciding on or

(07:22):
whatever is coming next in theseason of family life for you
that you really need to kind ofmake some decisions around and
plan about.
So I like that.
That sounds like uh, you know,hey, I got more resources here.
This is good.
It doesn't have to be one orthe other, but it's like there's
two people pitching in ideasand we can we can take a little
bit from both.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, that's correct.
I mean, Kristen and I, you canput math problems in front of us
and the way that she gets tothe solution is different than
the way that I get to thesolution.
I'm like, well, what was yourorder of operations there and
why did you go in that direction?
Because that's just wrong.
Right, but that's the way weget into it and in, in
recognizing then also that,right, like we can walk into a

(08:03):
room and the things that Iperceive are going to be
different than the things thatshe perceives, the things that
are going to activate hersympathetic response and, you
know, call some threat responseis going to be different than
the things that are going tomake me feel threatened or
stressed.
All of that is meant to beinformation that can help us to
be able to see the world and, asyou said, be able to make

(08:26):
decisions that are going to beof mutual benefit to each other.
But it does.
Again, it requires years ofconversation, growth in trust,
growth in vulnerability,understanding each other,
getting through all those normalarguments that happen when you
first get married, workingthrough those managing

(08:47):
expectations.
But if we can do that, then wecan start seeing what this
marriage thing actually is about.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
So good to present to a couple together as well, if
they can both get on the samepage that you know we do have
differences and acknowledge.
Here are some of the ways we'reso different from each other.
Um, and then use that as, like,their superpower to go.

(09:17):
You know which method should weuse this time?
Right, we got two, two ways togo.
Uh, you know, you know,sometimes I worry that if one
person gets this information andthe and the spouse is not
hearing the same thing, that itjust kind of falls apart for the
couple.
One person is saying, okay, Iget it Like we're different and

(09:39):
and I accept this about us andand I want us to work together
to navigate things using both ofour skills.
And I realize that yourperception is different and that
it's important for me to kindof join your perspective and get
on your page when I can.
But if the other person is,like you know, out to lunch, is

(10:03):
not tuning into this message orwhatever, Well, they should be.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
They should be listening to these podcasts.
That's the answer.
Just make sure that they listento the podcast.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I love that you're coaching couples and that you're
working on this, that youbelieve in this sacrament of
marriage and that this is thelong game right and these little
things like our differences.
They really can make or break amarriage.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, they can.
So when Kristen and I first gotmarried, we did all the things
that newlywed couples do is youwant to spend every minute
together that you possibly can,and so those first couple weeks,
even like sleeping, she wouldlay on me and I'd be like, okay,
and again, here's one of theareas where we're different.
Like Kristen, she can go tosleep and she wakes up in the

(10:56):
same position.
It's like she can get up, putthe sheets up and everything's
fine.
Me, I don't know who, I'mwrestling in the middle of the
night.
But I have dreams, I guess,like that dog.
You know, you've seen cartoons.
It's like chasing the car orsomething, and the sheets like
get all crazy.
I remember being a kid andwaking up on the other side of
the bed you ever had that happenbefore where you wake up where
your feet were and you're likewhat's going on, right?

(11:18):
So like that's, in essence, whoI am, I guess, as somebody
asleep.
So, kristen, when we first getmarried, she's laying on me and
this lasts about two weeks andI'm trying to be nice and be
like okay, cute, thank you,sweetie.
I appreciate it.
But I realized, a I'm hotbecause I have this person on me
and B, I can't move, which iswhat I normally do when I'm

(11:39):
asleep.
And so it was one of our firstareas of conversation where I
said, sweetie, I appreciate thedesire to want to spend
everything, every moment,together, but this isn't working
, and so I need you to just getover on your side, and this is
our compromise, like I'll sleepon my I'll big, you know, you
lean, I'll big, spoon you, andthen, when I'm ready to move,

(12:04):
I'll get off and then I'll go tosleep.
You know, and for me it'sthere's like an algorithm, it's
like left, right, belly out,right, you know, there's just,
you know, do that.
So it's like.
So, that was like our firstlittle compromise, and so you
just recognize that, okay,that's just there, and there's
not going to be any sort of like.
It's not about somebody winningthat.
It's not about somebody winningthat.

(12:25):
It's about just trying tofigure out how to make this work
.
And I mean again, out of that,all the normal disagreements why
do you squeeze the toothpasteout of the metal?
Why does the toilet paper rollgo the wrong way?
It's supposed to go over.
Why are you folding my shirtsthat way?
All those things start comingout, and that's not part of any
marriage preparation inventory.
It's stuff that you just startlearning and figuring out.

(12:46):
And then what happens is youstart changing your expectations
and not placing these demandson her to be like you.
And if you can really see thegenius at work here in each of
these perspectives, then it'snot so much about winning, it's
about how do we do this thingtogether.
Oh, I see your intuition issomething that is of value here,

(13:08):
your ability.
She tends to be the one whowants to go a little slower when
making decisions, and I'm theone that's always like all right
, jump both feet forward andwe'll figure it out as we go
along.
And in some cases, that's theright move.
That, no, we're going to forcethis thing.
Like this is the right move.
No, we're going to force thisthing.
This is the right thing.
We need to push past our fear.
We're going to make this thinghappen.
And then the other times overthe 22 years we've been married,

(13:30):
where it's like, no, no, slowit down, let's be a little more
methodical, and that, of course,is the right decision.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
But it's trying to develop, if we can call it this,
like a marital wisdom thatallows, I guess, a knowledge to
know when to do which one, andthere's a surrender in that
process, right?
Oh, yeah, that happens it hasto.
It's that dying to self whereit's like, okay, maybe this

(14:00):
isn't the time to push myperspective here, and so it's a
giving up of something that,like you said, getting out of
the way of your own ego, rightor like, however that goes.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, it's that.
But it's also see, marriage ina Christian sense is a sacrament
, meaning that it is thismystery and this is what St Paul
speaks about in his letters tothe Ephesians that marriage now
becomes this sign of God's loveto his people.
And when we see this mystery,what's being communicated there?

(14:31):
Well, it's saying that there'ssomething unique about this
relationship among otherrelationships.
St Paul doesn't say thatfriendship is that same witness,
which is friendships are greatand in other types of
relationships.
He's not saying theboss-employee relationship is
this witness.
He's saying marriages.
And so there's something uniqueabout marriage than any other

(14:52):
human relationship, althoughother human relationships are
good, but marriage sits abovethem.
Well, why?
Well, what's God doing in this?
Well, there's a recognitionthat, if I've committed myself
to this person, god has given methis individual, who is made in
his image and likeness and isan eternal soul that is blessed
with creativity, withintelligence, with imagination.

(15:16):
That there's something eternalthat's at work here, beyond what
I can just see by her body andsimilar with me, that there's
something, there's a soul,there's something that, even
within myself, is a mystery.
Marriage is, then, thiscommitment to want to peer into
that soul, to want to understandwho this person is and dedicate

(15:38):
myself to taking care of her,but then also really growing to
understand her.
And so, as you make that move,what's happening, I believe, is
that this is just an icon ofwhat we'll be doing in heaven,
which is that we peer into thevery heart and mystery of God
himself, and marriage justbecomes this little capacity,

(16:00):
within my limitations of timeand space, to be able to somehow
get a sense of what's comingnext.
I know it got real theologicalthere for a second, but does
that make sense?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yes, I love that, the deeper meaning behind it, that
you really are trying and it's alifelong process to peer into
the soul of your spouse and tocontinue to want to join them
where they are and to understandthings from your spouse, and to
continue to want to join themwhere they are and to understand
things from their perspectiveand to really value their gifts
and to use those.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
And to discover them and to continue to want to be
delighted by them.
I mean, like the worst thingthat could happen in any
marriage is when we've justfigured each other out and we're
just flatlining at that pointand then we're cruising, we're
just sailing, we're no longerdiscovering each other.
And this is what happens whenmarried couples stop dating.
They stop going out, they stopseeking new adventures together,

(16:57):
they stop asking what they wantto be when they grow up.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
They stop trying to understand each other.
All of that when that starts todie, that's a tough place for
couples it is.
It puts you definitely at riskof just being in that sort of
there's no hope right, thathopeless place in marriage where
you feel like we've kind ofcome to the end of the road and
there's no saving this.
And so I love how you mentionedseveral things that you could
do if you got to that point tosort of get back on this track

(17:35):
of discovering your spouse.
Right, you said dating or evenjust asking them questions.
I hosted a parents night outdate night event in Denver on on
February 14th, on Valentine'sday.
We do these monthly here andyou get like 12 couples together
and um, and do a differentexercise.

(17:57):
Couples exercise each time wherecouples can really grow and and
learn about each other.
Um, you know, just sitting attheir own table and spending
quality time in a larger groupsetting.
And I just went back tosomething simple that, like you
do when you start dating, passup these little conversation
cards.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
One question on a card and people said at the end
of the night these are peoplethat are married 10 years, 15
years, 20 years.
They said we love theconversation cards because, as
parents and married couples, weare in the trenches every day.
We're doing diapers, dishes,dinner, you know, ubering kids
around and like we just don'ttake time to discover who our

(18:40):
spouse is, who they're becoming,what their dreams and hopes are
for the future.
And so this was so refreshingand I was thinking, oh man,
sometimes we overthink what itwould take to get a couple
reconnected, but it really canbe just those simple things.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yes, absolutely, and it's just being committed to
those simple things.
It's not enough to beco-parents, it's not enough to
be good roommates, it's notenough to be parenting
colleagues Like.
We have to be spouses, andthat's a different type of
relationship than any of thoseother things that I said about.
And I get it.

(19:16):
Listen, I have four kids.
I have one in college, two inhigh school, a fifth grader, and
we're just moved from onesports season after another, and
there's a couple of weeks wheretwo sports seasons overlap and
we're actually in the middle ofthat right now between soccer
and basketball and track andfield.
We got a lot going on in ourhouse and it's easy to just get
into.

(19:37):
You have your checklist, I havemy checklist.
You do the pickups on this day,I do the pickups in this day.
You handle these chores, Ihandle these chores.
You take care of those bills, Itake care of these bills.
Great, awesome, all right, go.
And then we just go and we'redoing, we're doing, we're doing.
And again, couples have to havethose conversations.

(19:59):
You got to fall into some typeof rhythm of life.
I get it, but every so oftenyou need to be able to take a
break and say we're going to putthat all while.
This is all good, we're goingto put this aside and we're
going to have an evening for us.
We're going to go out forcoffee.
If the kids are little, put themdown, watch Netflix or what.
Put the put Netflix on for themand then you go and have a cup

(20:22):
of coffee in the back porch or aglass of wine together.
Things that we just have to do.
It's fine.
You can use Netflix as ababysitter.
She's cheap, okay, so it's allright.
Right, she is cheap, you know,and so it's things that we just
have to do every so often, justto kind of touch base and remind
yourself who are you married?

(20:42):
Who did I marry?
We're like hi, I joke withKristen.
Every so often, if we getreally busy, in a really busy
season, I'll be like hi, myname's Mario, I'm your husband,
it's nice to see you, it's niceto meet you.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes, and I love that because it's just kind of like
oh, oh yeah, wow, hi, it's you.
That's right.
We do need to nurture thismarriage and it's been a while
since we've had a date or we'vejust sat down and talked about
us versus the kids.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yes, exactly, or the chores or anything else, or the
bills, and all those thingshappen.
I get it, those are worries tohappen, but at at some point the
kids leave and therelationships that survive the
empty nest time are therelationships that have been
cultivating their marriages allthe way through so that are not
strangers by the end of it, andthat's, that's the temptation.

(21:38):
So I think the stats stillholds up.
But when we look at divorcesand when divorces happen across
kind of like the marital timespan, there's two pockets where
you see concentrations wheredivorces happen.
One is the five to seven yearrange where you see a
concentration divorces, theseven year itch that we joke
about or call.
There's a reason why thatexists, because it's true.

(21:59):
And the reason that that'sthere is because you can only be
polite for so long.
You know where you're just kindof ignoring everything and
sweeping under the rug.
And then it's like, oh okay, weactually have to talk about
these differences before theyblow up.
And so couples who are able tonavigate that and have those
conversations and recommitthemselves do well.
And then we see another oneabout the 20-year range.
But what starts happening in the20-year range?

(22:21):
Well, a few things arehappening.
One, the kids are starting toleave the house, um, they're
becoming more independent, um,we get older, uh, and so our
bodies are changing.
Our expectations aroundintimacy changes, uh.
Those type of things starthappening at the 20 year mark
and couples who, reiterate, havebeen cultivating the

(22:44):
relationship all the way through, don't get to that point and
then say, well, who, who are you?
You know what like they, theyknow who each other are.
But the couples who, who get tothat point and haven't been
doing the regular dates toregular conversations, the
regular check-ins, the regularconversation starters, things
that you spoke about, they, theyget to that point and then

(23:04):
they're, they're, they're lostand then the person that they
expected to be there is somebodydifferent.
Because we change, you know, wechange it's, we change.
It's hard, when you've beenmarried for 20, 25 years, to not
compare your spouse to who theywere when you first got married
.
You have to choose them on thedaily, as the kids say right,
you got to choose them now, yougot to choose them today.

(23:27):
I see you, who are you today?
Do I love you today?
Do I choose you today?
And constantly doing that isthe task that's before us.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Just kind of recalibrating right, just
looking at each other and goingyes in your sickness, yes In
your depression, yes In yourgrief about something I'm
choosing to lean in and todiscover more about what's going
on with you.
Right and and not taking forgranted that, you know, not

(24:02):
taking for granted, but justlike you said at the beginning,
just this whole idea of likeyou've arrived, like we've been
married 20 years, like, oh, Itotally know, I know what you're
going to say, I know whatyou're, you know you could get
in those habits where you kindof like fill in the blanks for
your spouse or dismiss somethingthat they're going to say

(24:24):
because you're like, oh, we'vebeen together forever, you know,
like I, I know what you'rethinking about this.
But I think there's a mistakein doing that, because you're
not really rediscovering them onthe daily right.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
So funny story.
I share this in my lectures.
But my in-laws when they weremarried they're celebrating 50
this year, so this was probablyI'd say it was about 15 years
ago.
It was like 35, 40 years thatthey've been married.
We were over at their house andhaving a barbecue and Bill, my

(24:57):
father-in-law, was grilling someburgers and brings him inside.
He sits at the table.
Patty, being just sweet wife,is fixing the burger for him,
putting ketchup and mustard andmayonnaise on it and the lettuce
and tomato and just making theburger for him as he's sitting
down, and as she puts theketchup on the burger for him,
as he's sitting down, and as sheputs the ketchup on the burger,
bill goes Patty, I don't likeketchup on my burgers.

(25:19):
Patty goes.
Bill, I've been making yourburgers for 35 years.
Why is this the first time thatyou've told me you don't like
ketchup on your burgers and hegoes?
He builds the most patient manin the world he goes.
I've just always been gratefulthat you've made my burgers and
I've never wanted to complain ormake you feel like I don't
appreciate what you're doing.
But yeah, for today.

(25:41):
I don't know why, but today'sthe day.
I'm just letting you know Idon't like.
I don't like ketchup on myburgers, right.
And so this is, this is playingout in front of me and I'm I'm
dying.
The whole family's laughing,right, and I'm like you guys,
this is going into talk.
I'm sorry, your, yourson-in-law, this is what I do

(26:01):
for a living, so I apologize,but this is what's going to
happen, right?
And and it just it made methink that we just again, we
take these things for granted.
Um, our taste buds change.
My favorite ice cream when Iwas early on was mint chocolate
chip.
It's evolved.
I'm more of a butter pecan typeof guy, and if my wife was to
just go get some mint chocolatechip ice cream from the grocery
store as a as a way to treat,you know, or show her, um,

(26:25):
whatever, just appreciation forme, great that I would receive
it.
But if she brought butter pecan, I'd be like, oh well, you know
she's paying attention.
You know, brought butter pecan,I'd be like, oh well, she's
paying attention to where I'm atright now.
And I know those things soundmaterial or may sound
insignificant, but they're not.
They're just the little waysthat we do communicate.
I see you, I recognize you'rechanging.
I'm keeping up with you.

(26:45):
I choose you as you are today.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yes, underscore the word choose, because love is a
choice.
I just did an episode, a coupleback um, about love being a
choice and and how kids definelove and it it is.
It's this daily act of justsaying like, how you are today

(27:13):
is enough.
You know I, I choose you as youare today is enough.
You know, I choose you as youare today in whatever aspect
that means and whatever you'regoing through and whatever is
headed your way.
Like I'm, I'm going to be yourpartner, I'm going to be your
person.
I think that happens to thesense of like well, we've kind

(27:35):
of developed our own you knowinterests.
We have our own career paths.
We're 20 years into this thingYou're a therapist, you're a
financial advisor, whatever itis, whatever the dynamics are,
and you lose sight.
You could lose sight of beingon the same team.
You could lose sight of being onthe same team and so, like you

(27:57):
said, what happens is you sharethe same last name, you live
under the same roof, but you'vesort of siloed yourself and that
division becomes greater andgreater over time.
But to the outside it lookslike, well, you're still living

(28:17):
together, you're still married,you're still, you know,
celebrating the anniversary orwhatever, but there's a lot of
little things that are missingthat really connect you and help
you to rediscover your spouse.
So it's another kind of danger,the longer you get married, if
you kind of head on to thoseindividual paths.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, that's right.
I love the phrase that you saidjust a few minutes ago you are
enough.
And really seeing your spouseas being enough, I mean that's
hard, right.
I mean that's really hardbecause they're not perfect and
they're going to make mistakes.
Because they're not perfect andthey're going to make mistakes

(28:58):
and husbands aren't going to fixthe leaky faucet maybe as fast
as the wives want them to fix it.
Wives might be a little bitmore nagging than husbands would
want.
I know I'm playing stereotypeshere, but just giving examples.
And if we can see each other asbeing enough while still

(29:20):
knowing how to communicate whatour needs are in a way that is
respectful, in a way thatinvites conversation, in a way
that invites dialogue, not justdemanding, then I think that's
the key here.
And back to this whole notionof it being a sacrament isn't
that the way that God sees us?
I mean, god recognizes that weare enough and he chooses us and

(29:40):
he loves us, while at the sametime recognizing that we're not
perfect and we do have sins andwe do have faults, and that
we're on a journey and thatwe're trying to get better.
And we're trying to stop eatingice cream at midnight or stop
doom scrolling on YouTube orwhatever the case might be.
But God recognizes that that'sthe journey and he's not

(30:01):
expecting us to be perfect rightnow, but he's got a plan that's
going to lead us towards humanperfection and I think that's
the way that we're invited tolove our spouse.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, and forgiveness has to be a part of this.
Right, like, because we are sodifferent, we are going to hurt
each other, and because we loveeach other so much, we can be
hurt by the other so easily.
Right?
This is a person that is theclosest person, human person to
me at this point, you know, andand so forgiveness in our

(30:37):
differences has got to be at theforefront of our marriage, and
if that's not something that wearen't practicing, it's
worthwhile and going.
You know what?
What's going on here?
Why am I not acceptingresponsibility for something
that I did that was hurtful tomy spouse and responsibility for
something that I did that washurtful to my spouse?
Where's that coming from, youknow?
Did my parents model apologiesand asking for forgiveness for

(31:00):
me?
Maybe not?
Okay, then how can you worktogether with your spouse on the
virtue of forgiveness?
Right On saying man, I'm sorry,I totally railroaded you about
the decision you made aboutselling the rental house or
whatever it was.
I need to back up and allow youto share your perspective with

(31:24):
me, and I'm going to tune in ina different way, where I'm
really here to hear your side.
I really want to learnsomething about you, so I hope
you can forgive me in thisscenario.
I find that forgiveness in myown marriage.
Just apologizing and asking forforgiveness, it's just like the
glue right.
It's like, oh, forget it.
If you say you're sorry to me,I'm like it's gone.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
I'm like, yes, let's hug it out and instant
forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
It's not with everything, but yeah, yeah it
makes such a difference.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Right is saying that there I'm accepting that
something has gone wrong here,something is is different in our
relationship and I'm going totake ownership for that
personally yeah, mercy, mercy,right, mercy, it's, it's, it
absolutely is part of thispackage, and I know your

(32:20):
audience isn't all Catholic, butthere's a phrase that comes to
mind here by Pope Francis on hisletter during the year of mercy
, where he talks about the it it, the way that we receive it is
mercy, it's, it's God's love forus, and then God gives that
love, because that's whatfathers do, it's, that's what

(32:41):
that's the role of being a dadis to be merciful, and it's such
as the same, I think, withinspouses.
Again, if we're modeling thisimage that we're being, this
image of Christ's love to hispeople, then we have to choose
mercy, we have to chooseforgiveness, and most things
that we argue about areinsignificant and I would

(33:02):
imagine that most peoplelistening.
If you think about your mostrecent argument, you probably
can recount the feeling and theintensity of the emotion, but
you probably can't remember allthe details of what it was that
was going on and take you asecond to actually think about
how do we actually start thatargument?
And usually it's something dumbor insignificant, like someone
takes too long to pick a moviewhile you're watching Netflix,

(33:26):
or something of that nature.
That ends up being these little, these little patterns of
bickering that we can fall into.
But, as you said, yes, if wecan forgive each other, if we
can accept some humility and wecan be merciful towards each
other, then that's going to helpa long way.
Now, when it comes to bigtransgressions, of course, when

(33:46):
we're talking about affairs orporn addictions or blowing a lot
of money or things of thatnature, yes, forgiveness is
still part of the process, butit's going to take up.
That's a different process ofwhat forgiving some big
transgression like that wouldlook like compared to some of
the more minor bickering thingsthat tend to happen.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Mm-hmm, as you said that, I imagine that if you're
developing this practice oftaking ownership, apologizing,
asking for forgiveness, grantingforgiveness in the little
things in the Netflix things inthe, you know, we always choose

(34:26):
your restaurant kind of argument, you know?

Speaker 2 (34:28):
I'm done.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
I'm not going to pick the restaurant anymore
restaurant anymore, getting apractice of doing that with the
small things.
Then when you're faced with oneof these big transgressions
which are going to be in someway shape or form right, I mean
this is just sort of inevitablein married life and as a parent
you're going to be verydisappointed by someone in your

(34:51):
family or there's going to besomething that you just couldn't
even imagine in your wildestdreams that would happen to your
kids or your spouse or whatever.
But I imagine just those smalldaily acts of humility and
apologizing and forgiving reallybuild this foundation for when

(35:13):
something like that happens, tobe able to access that mercy a
little bit easier than if that'snot been a practice for you for
many years or that's notsomething that you grew up with.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.
It's almost like, if you thinkof these positive interactions
or these moments of mercy, aslittle ones as being deposits
into the bank account and thenevery transgression is being a
withdrawal from the bank account, that, definitively, the more
that you have in the bankaccount, the more cash you have,

(35:48):
the more that you have to drawfrom should a big transgression
occur, should a bigtransgression occur.
But if that hasn't been thestandard in the relationship,
then big things like thatcertainly can be like a doomsday
for couples.
Well, let's just switch theconversation a little bit,

(36:08):
because I want to ask you yeah,we're getting a little heavy
there.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
I love it.
This is good.
I love to go deep, I love it,but I want to ask you you're out
and about speaking in differentplaces.
You enjoy working with youngadults around how to date well
and preparing themselves formarriage.
So give us some ideas aboutstatistics, some observations

(36:35):
that you've made about youngadults, young single adults, and
what are they worried aboutwhen it comes to finding a mate?
What are they worried aboutwhen it comes to the idea of
marriage?
What's going on for thesepeople who are in their 20s and
not dating or not married yet?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, it's a great question and we see a difference
between religious groups andnon-religious groups, and the
research supports this, thatthere are differences, very
clear differences, inperceptions of marriage,
expectations of marriage,expectations for marriage,
desire for marriage in one campversus the other, versus the

(37:15):
other.
And I think what's happened here, and somebody who's a secular
writer, christine Embaugh,phrases it this way.
She says that marriage hasundergone a major change in our
society in the sense that 50years ago, when our parents were
getting married, marriage wasviewed as a cornerstone project.

(37:36):
You got married young, oftenright out of high school, late
teens, early twenties, mayberight out of college.
You got married young, oftenright out of high school late
teens, early 20s, maybe rightout of college.
You got married young and youkind of figured out adulthood
along the way and so it was acornerstone project.
But now marriage has beenviewed more as a capstone
project, in that you get yourcareer established, you go to

(37:57):
college, you get your careerestablished and then maybe at
some point you start saying Ithink it's time for me to get
married now that I've done allthese things, and in our society
, when we've made that pivotculturally, basically what we're
saying is that marriage is kindof optional, or marriage is
second to our career, and ourcareer is going to be the thing

(38:17):
that's going to give us security.
Our career is going to be thething that's going to give us
meaning, our career is going tobe the thing that's going to
give us camaraderie, our careeris going to be the thing that's
going to give us fellowship andour marriage.
Nobody says this outright, butit almost feels like it's
outdated.
Well, some people do say thatoutright, but really that it's

(38:39):
this optional enterprise If youchoose it, great.
If you don't choose it, that'sfine.
And again, I understand that wedon't want to put pressure back
in the old days where it's likeif you're not married by 35,
you're an old maid, you knowlike in your life is over.
Okay, fine, I'm happy we we'vewalked away from that type of
pressure, but we've thrown thebaby out with the bathwater, as
we have in a lot of things, andI think it's time for us to kind

(39:01):
of recalibrate and bring itback to the middle.
A great book that I wouldencourage people to read is a
book by Brad Wilcox called GetMarried.
It has all the research, allthe information in that book
that lets you know why marriage,even today, in 2025, well, the
book was published last year,but even today, in 2025 is the
preferred option we see acrossthe board, married couples are

(39:25):
happier than their singlecounterparts.
Married couples are better offfinancially than their single
counterparts, even compared tocouples that are cohabitating.
Married couples have morefrequent sexual intimacy than
their single, married singlecounterparts.
Married couples have a deeperfaith.
It just across the board.
Marriage is a pretty darn goodinstitution.

(39:47):
It's a pretty darn goodarrangement, and so that message
needs to get out there again.
We need to re-communicate thatOur religious groups, our
Christians, our Catholics, thosewho practice some type of faith
, get that.
They understand that.
They understand that.
They know that that's stillpreached there, but the secular
groups, by and large, that's notbeing communicated and that's
important because, when it comesto this question of dating, is

(40:08):
that we do see this divide.
That happens, and I work with alot of Christian and Catholic
couples and singles who aretrying to navigate the dating
space and they go on the secularapps and they struggle to find
somebody who's going to matchtheir values.
Your face just said it all.
I mean, it's exactly, exactly.
Oh my gosh, what's going on,right, and?

(40:28):
And so they have a hard timefinding somebody who who shares
their faith or shares theirvalues.
But then often they go on these, on the Christian apps or the
Catholic apps, and they maystruggle finding somebody who's
interesting.
I hate to say it that way, butthey may have shared values, but
they may not have sharedinterests and we say it a little
more charitably, and so thereseems to be a mismatch.

(40:49):
So you're trying to findsomebody who's hitting both of
these, that we have sharedvalues but we also have shared
interests, personality we havesome commonality.
That's here.
So this is part of the realitythat we're in.
We see this even politically.
We're finding more and morethat when you ask Republicans
versus Democrats, would you datelike a Democrat?

(41:11):
Would you date a Trumpsupporter Like, majority of
women say absolutely not.
You know that.
That check off the Democratside, it it?
So just this polarization inour society is creating, um, uh,
subgroups and within thosesubgroups, you're you're having
a harder time finding people andconnecting with people, um, so

(41:33):
I I think we just again, it'sokay for us just to rethink
marriage.
Let's put marriage back where itneeds to be, as something
that's aspirational, assomething that's worthy, and
let's communicate that messageagain to our young people so
that they can see it assomething that they should be
striving for.
I'll say one more thing aboutjust kind of the trends.

(41:54):
There was a study that was donethat was asking college
students their perceptions ofmarriage, and the vast majority
of them said that they arelooking for some type of
long-term committed relationship.
But when asked what theirperception was of other people,
that percentage droppeddrastically.

(42:15):
So, in essence, what theresearch is showing is that most
young adults by themselves, orcollege students by themselves,
feel like they're ready for along-term committed relationship
, but they think that the otherperson, the other party, doesn't
want that, and so then we endup kind of curtailing what we
want, what we think other peoplewant, when the majority of

(42:35):
people actually do want sometype of lasting love in their
lives.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Isn't that interesting.
I call that MSU and makingstuff up right, You're like I
want someone for life but Ithink Joe just really he's not
ready, he doesn't want that.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
And we don't know how to talk about it.
Or we just kind of do theflirting and the fun stuff, and
then we don't really know whatthat means.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
So, as a parent, you're raising boys right
Raising boys, trying my best.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
You've got one in college.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yes, Well, is there any?

Speaker 2 (43:12):
advice that you would give to What'd you say Pray for
my wife, please.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I know All my friends who have boys only.
I'm like I just I want to startlike a little group for women
who have sons only, where it'slike we go to the spa, we paint
our nails together, like we doall the girly things that are
just like not happening over atthat house or whatever, and like
you just really pour on thefemininity.
I just really pour on thefemininity.

(43:40):
But no, I mean, is thereanything as parents raising kids
who are going to be dating andwho we really want to be married
adults and good partners inmarriage?
Is there anything you would saylike man, I've heard parents
say these types of things totheir kids and that really has a
negative effect on the childwanting to date or wanting to be

(44:02):
married or any of those?
Just don't do this.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'll get to that.
Let me back into it.
So, first, I would say it's ourresponsibility to raise healthy
, functioning adults, and wehave to each think about what we
want.
So, starting with the end inmind, so to speak, like what is
it that we want our kids to bewhen they leave our home?
They were never ours to possess, they were always a gift given

(44:28):
to us by God.
We are stewards of this eternalsoul that God has put into our
family, into our responsibility.
How are we shepherding thisperson?
How are we discipling them?
What are we trying toaccomplish?
What really are we trying to do?
And so for me, like it's asimple list, right?
I would say I want my boys,first and foremost, to know
Jesus, okay, and have some typeof relationship with our Lord.

(44:51):
I want my kids to not beaddicted to pornography, all
right.
And I want my kids to be ableto talk to pretty girls, all
right, like just just feelingcomfortable, at least having
some type of conversation withthe opposite sex, all right.
Yes, man, if I can, if I can dothose three things, I'm out,
right, like I've done my job.
Thank you, jesus.
Like we're good, right, likethat's, that's what.
That's what I want.

(45:11):
I want them to be good men whoknow how to be respectful of
other, of other women.
They don't have sisters,unfortunately, so a lot of these
lessons are learned primarilythrough friendships and then
through dating.
I had sisters growing up and Iwas grateful for that.
My sister set me straight onmany occasions, which I'm really
grateful for them for that.
Okay, so what are the thingsthat we're seeing?
Well, first, we need to havejust openness about dialogue

(45:35):
related to relationshipsrelating to sex, relating to
sexuality, setting expectationsclear about chastity.
All of those things should justbe normal parts of our
conversations within our family.
We want to come back I'm happyto do that as another episode
about how to talk to your kidsabout sex and what's age
appropriate along the way.
Great conversation that.
We can reserve that for someother time.
But if you've been navigatingthat and having those

(45:59):
conversations with them alongthe way, then when it starts
coming to dating, then we have.
It's just the next step.
We're just talking.
We're just talking about thethings that we've been talking
about.
What I often see in moreconservative circles is a lot of
fear surrounding the topic ofdating, especially for high
schoolers.
I don't think that we need ourfifth graders to schoolers.

(46:19):
I don't think that we need ourfifth graders to be dating.
I don't think we need ourmiddle schoolers to be dating.
I don't think we need earlyhigh school to be dating.
But I do think that there hasto be some openness to dating.
Maybe 16, 17, last couple ofyears in high school, and that
terrifies people.
They're like well, datingshould be for marriage.
Yes, absolutely.
Dating is ultimately aboutmarriage, a hundred percent.

(46:39):
I'm not saying throw spaghettiagainst the wall and just let
them do whatever the heck theywant.
No, but let's, let's cultivatethat.
Let's see like are theyinterested in somebody?
And I'm not saying put pressureon your kids to date, but I'm
saying let's at least have anopenness for that and to have
conversations about them.
Are they interested in somebody?
Why are they interested in this?
Is it just because thatperson's attractive physically
or is there something morethat's going on there?

(47:00):
Start welcoming that.
Let's start to see how we canbe respectful to women.
Again, I'm a father of boyswho's seeking this in this
perspective, speaking to ourboys about being respectful
about why are you interested inher?
Is it just because she's hot,or is it because there's
something more that's there?
And there's something morethat's there, then let's explore
that, get into the relationship, start giving them some skills,

(47:23):
some tools to be able to haveconversations.
We want our kids to be able tohave some of these experiences
while they're still under ourroof, because we want to be able
to shepherd them again, guidethem, help them.
If they have the first heartache, I mean I'm okay with that, let

(47:44):
that happen under the roof.
Let's, let's, let's grieve thattogether.
Let's give them a model for howto be able to process that
grief rather than just stuffingit or doing something you know
unproductive, like eating a tubof ice cream.
You know like let's, let's dothis together.
Let's let them know that familyis here and that that's our job
is to help them to be able tonavigate complex emotional
situations.
So I know I get pushed backwhen I speak to parents about

(48:04):
this notion of letting highschoolers date.
I'm saying 16, 17, 18.
I'm not saying anything beforethat, okay.
So I want to be clear late highschool.
But I think we need to give ourkids some opportunities to
exercise the virtues that we'retrying to instill in them If
we've never given them anopportunity to exercise the
virtues that we've beenpreaching at home, then they're

(48:26):
never going to develop themuscle memory that they need to
develop when they go off intocollege and be by themselves
when they're making thosedecisions, unsupervised.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
So good and if you have cultivated this
relationship of trust andopenness and like there's no
crazy question and-.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
No crazy question, that's right.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
We have boundaries around what we mean by you
dating when you're in highschool, right you?

Speaker 2 (48:50):
have boundaries, absolutely, oh, yeah, no, it's
not a free-for-all.
Absolutely.
Yeah, we want you home at acertain time, like we're going
to be checking the phone fromtime to time.
We have you know.
We want to know whatconversations are looking like.
Yeah, absolutely For sure.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
There's clear boundaries and and you've primed
the pump because you've talkedto your kids at a younger age
about the importance and thevalue of their body and
preserving their, their physicalbody and sex for marriage, and
so that's the context you'respeaking in, right, it's like
you've tilled the soil fordating well, and so this
recommendation of allowing yourkids to date well when they're

(49:30):
teenagers, so that you canprocess it, makes a lot of sense
to me and, frankly, I needed tohear it.
You know we have a son who's outof the house already.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
You know and.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I remember just being new to the whole dating scene
and stuff, and just I wouldblurt things out based on my own
experience of dating from mypast, where my son would be like
, mom, I wasn't even thinking,you know, and I'm going oh shoot
, oh darn it.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
I wasn't either.
That was a darn it.
I wasn't either.
That was, that was ahypothetical, that wasn't.
That wasn't because of me, thatwasn't because I did that.
I mean, I just watched that ina movie yes, I was just seeing
if you knew about.
I just want to see, I wonder ifyou knew what that was yes, but
I do.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I would love to have you back on the show to talk
about that, because that's awhole nother thing, whole nother
topic yeah, and everyone theshow to talk about that, because
that's a whole nother thing,whole nother topic.
And everyone is going to gothrough that with their kids,
like you're going to.
I mean, you know, hopefullyyour children are going to be
teenagers and they're going tobe out of the house and they're
going to be out there navigatingthe dating world, and it's very
different also, and there's alot more obvious differences in

(50:40):
people out there in the worldtoday too.
Just talking about acceptingdifferences, and things that we
accept about each other in ourmarriage as
40-something-year-olds are alittle bit different than what
these young kids are beingexpected to accept or take on
and take on.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
So and basic skills like just knowing how to have a
conversation, volleying back andforth.
You ask a question and I askanother one, and these are
skills that we can teach ourkids, just basic stuff that's
going to help them.
So, again, the trajectory isalways getting towards marriage,
but there have to be someskills that they need to develop

(51:23):
.
So if a guy, you know, leavesthe house or leaves college and
and doesn't have some of thosebasic skills in place, then
that's going to be an impedimentfor him when he actually finds
the woman who God is calling himto marry.
You know, like it's going ondates that are low risk I'm not
in a casual gets a bad rap.

(51:45):
I'm not saying casual sex Okay.
So I want to be a hundredpercent clear that the lines are
there, absolutely.
But going on dates that havejust lower intensity gives a
little bit more space just forexploration time, for asking,
conversation, gettingconversations going, developing
friendship with people, justknowing how to navigate.

(52:06):
Those things are going to helpthem and then also seeing
different people and being ableto say, oh, this is what I'm
looking at, this is not what I'mlooking for.
It kind of it just having somebank there to know what it is
that we're looking for is goingto be helpful.
I think it's going to behelpful.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
So good, and I love that you developed a course on
dating well so that if your kidgot out of the house without
some of these skills, or they'refloundering or they don't want
to hear it from you, mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
They can hear it from me.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Dr Mario, he's got it going on.
He's got a course he didn'tknow.
He's been through it.
He's got sons.
It's, it's all good.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The course came out of myclinical work where, about five
years ago, I was working with anumber of single folks and still
am and just hearing theirstories, hearing their heartache
, hearing how challenging thedating scene has been.
Again, I met my wife in collegebefore Google was a thing.
I mean, google was probably athing, but I'm not that old but
it was before iPhones.

(53:04):
I will definitely say that itwas well before iPhones and
smartphones that I was incollege and everything's just
changed.
It's changed, and so my singleclients were really educating me
to the problems and thechallenges that were there and I
said I think I can contributeto this.
I just looked into the problem.
Some more could see what'sgoing on and recognize that my

(53:28):
20 years as a marriage therapistlends itself to some knowledge
here that can be of help tothese young couples.
So Dating Well is gearedtowards college students, young
adults, to help them navigatingthe ins and outs of the modern
dating scene, and it's 19 videolessons.
Every lesson is hoveringbetween seven to 17 minutes in

(53:50):
length, so it's not very timeconsuming.
You go, you have reflectionquestions afterwards, some
exercises afterwards just givesyou enough to think about the
issues at hand and will helpsingle people to be able to
manage their expectations, mighthelp you understand why the
last relationship you're indidn't work out.
It's great for couples alsothat are dating to be able to

(54:10):
help them have someconversations that maybe they
wouldn't otherwise know to have.
So it's been a great resourcethat I've been able to offer.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Wonderful.
Well, tell our audience howwould they find that resource?
What's the best way for them toaccess all the free resources,
the paid resources that youoffer?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, Head on over to my website, drmariasacasacom.
D-r-m-a-r-i-o-s-a-c-a-s-acom.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Awesome.
You guys can access that in ourshow notes as well.
We have his website linked andalso the book Get Married linked
, like all the resources.
We really, really appreciateyou being with us, just blessing
our community with your adviceon how to accept differences in
marriage and just reminding usof the beauty of the sacrament

(54:58):
of marriage.
This is the long game.
It's worth, you know, leaningin and dating your spouse
throughout marriage andrediscovering each other, and
it's like it's the way to do it.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
It's the way to do it .
It's the way to do it.
You got it, Jordan.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yes, Well, thank you again.
And if someone wanted you tospeak for their, at their church
or school or um, or for a groupof you know, young adults, what
would be the best way for themto contact you?
Can they email you or do youhave a contact form on your,
your, website?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yep, yep, all of the above.
So certainly they can email meat hope at drmariasacasacom, and
that email is also on thewebsite.
You can also find me on any ofthe socials and the handle is at
drmariasacasa.
That's it across the board.
So, whether it's YouTube orInstagram, linkedin, whatever,
whatever you want, whatever yourflavor, is at drmariasacasa

(55:53):
across the board.
So send me an email at hope atdrmariasacasacom, or visit the
website, and certainly you'llfind the email there.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Awesome, thank you, and I recommend you check out
his podcast as well.
Always Hope.
Never enough good podcasts Like.
There's just such a variety.
So thanks for getting on theairwaves, thanks for doing
everything you're doing toreally bless marriages and
family life and I know it's asacrifice and it's a calling and

(56:22):
you're doing a really, reallygreat job of inspiring hope in
others.
So thanks for being with us.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Thanks, Jordan.
I really appreciate theconversation.
It was great.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Awesome Guys, I'm going to tune in to another
episode with you like real soon,and if you're binging these
episodes, you know, just go onto the next one, and but don't
forget to share this one withyour spouse.
We talked about how you canhear information or be
enlightened about something, andif your spouse isn't hearing
that or you're not sharing itwith them, it may fall flat.

(56:54):
So be sure to share theseepisodes with your spouse.
It's it's a good idea to pour aglass of wine or a cup of
coffee and sit back and pull upYouTube and watch this together
and have a meaningful discussionabout it.
That counts as a date too.
So, anyway, we'll continue tobring you wonderful experts on
our show and, in the meantime,do what it takes to put just 1%

(57:18):
effort into your marriage todayand you will be glad years down
the road.
Thanks for joining us.