April 15, 2025 • 46 mins
Send us a Text Message and suggest a topic or guest!
Ever fantasized about setting a match to all the toys scattered across your living room floor? You're definitely not alone. That overwhelming feeling of drowning in stuff is precisely what led Julia Ubbenga – mother of five, minimalist living coach, and author – to radically transform her family's relationship with possessions.
The relentless clutter of toys, clothes, and household items can transform parenting from a joy to a constant struggle with stuff management. Julia shares her journey from shopping addiction to simplified living, offering practical strategies for decluttering both our physical spaces and our inner lives.
• The state of our homes frequently reflects the state of our souls – creating physical space can lead to spiritual and emotional freedom
• Starting your decluttering journey by identifying which areas cause you the most stress rather than arbitrary starting points
• Taking a middle ground approach to minimalism – testing what you can live without before permanently letting go
• Addressing gift-giving with family
• Minimalism teaches children generosity, contentment, and that abundant life doesn't require abundant stuff
Visit richinwhatmatters.com to learn more about Julia's courses and new book "Declutter Your Heart and Home: How a Minimalist Life Yields Maximum Joy"
The Thriving Family Accelerator provides an easy, 3-step process to lower stress, parent as a united team, and enjoy a true friendship with your spouse & relationship with your kids. Sign up now for this live parent coaching with proven methods for positively engaging your family and redistributing the mental load.
Give $20 to keep the mic on. We're a 501 c(3) non-profit and produce this show for parents around the globe.
Discover the secrets to building a connected + thriving family. All you'll need is a few minutes of your week—it's easy!
Looking for things to combat boredom and bolster growth in your kids? Check out our Tame the Tech Bundle and the Best Me I Can Be Journal!
our website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
If you ever get kind of likefrustrated with the mess, the
stuff and the endless piles inyour kid's room or in the living
room, you're not alone.
Okay, I myself have had littlefantasies of just like striking
a match and honestly torched itall.
(00:22):
Okay, because it getsoverwhelming, right.
I never do that, but sometimesjust all of the stuff that we
have cluttering up our homes forme, it just drives me a little
bit nuts and then I get agitatedand, as the good old saying
goes, if mama ain't happy, ain'tnobody happy goes.
(00:50):
If mama ain't happy, ain'tnobody happy.
So then all of a sudden the homeis not a place of peace and
refreshment, but it's naggingand threatening.
If you don't pick your stuff up, then guess what's going to
happen and it all just kind ofspirals out of control.
So if you can relate, just sitback, relax, enjoy the show,
because today on our show we'vegot a minimalist living coach
(01:12):
and creator of a popular blogcalled Rich in what Matters here
with us today.
She's going to help usunderstand how to raise kids
with less stuff and talk aboutthe benefits of all of us living
a bit more simply.
So welcome to the show JuliaUbenga.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks, jordan, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Julia, you are one of us.
You're married, you have fivekids, you prioritize your faith,
you're a working mom, youtotally get it.
And even with all that going on, you just finished writing a
book that launched, I believe,today, the day this podcast is
out called Declutter your Heartand Home, and you did that
(01:58):
because of your passion forhelping people learn how to live
with less.
So if you wouldn't mind, jumpin and tell us more about what
kind of inspired you to writethis book and how it reflects
your own personal journey towardminimalism.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So I think so many people can relate to what you
said at the beginning there.
So many moms are overwhelmed athome right now, and a lot of
the reason that we'reoverwhelmed and we're exhausted
is we simply have too much stuff, too much stuff to manage in
our home, in our hearts, in ourminds.
And there's a quote I love fromSt Teresa of Calcutta.
She said the more you own, themore you are occupied, but the
(02:38):
less you own, the more free youare.
And we're not made to live insurvival mode.
We're not made to live our daysexhausted, on edge, nagging our
kids constantly.
We're made for abundant livesand we can have those lives.
We can end the chaos, thedistraction, the discontent.
And so I wrote the book becauseI wanted to give moms the tools
(03:01):
to live a simpler life, ifthey're feeling called to do
that.
A simpler life with less stuff.
And I myself, I am a minimalist, now a mom of five kids, like
you said, ages 11, 7, 4, 2 intwo months and I have not always
been a minimalist, thoughpretty far from it.
I grew up close to my grandmaand my grandma loved to shop.
(03:23):
She would shop whether sheneeded something or not, whether
she had the money or not, itwas her love language.
I'd go into her home and I'dsee her closet.
She had multiple closets.
They're just filled.
They were stuffed with newclothes.
80% still had the price tags onthem.
So when I spent time with mygrandma, we'd go shopping and
what I learned was that shoppingwas fun.
It was a way to feel good.
(03:45):
It was a way not to feel badand to kind of cover up hard
feelings.
And I carried this mindset intomy 20s.
I started making money, Istarted spending money and
pretty soon I had a whole lot ofstuff and $40,000 worth of
consumer debt.
So when I thought about thisstuff I felt bad.
But when I felt bad I'd go buysomething new, because that's
what I thought would make mefeel good, what I thought would
(04:07):
make me happy.
And so the cycle continued upuntil the time our second
daughter was born and I wasworking outside the home as a
speech language pathologist atthe time.
But I always wanted to be a stayat home mom.
That was my dream to stay homewith our kids.
My husband got a promotion atthe time and I could stay home.
I was so excited.
But I had this really idyllicvision of what stay-at-home mom
(04:28):
life would be like In my mind.
I would be with our daughtersbaking cookies, snuggling on the
couch reading Little House onthe Prairie, giggling over tea
parties.
So in my mind it was just goingto be great.
But a couple of weeks into thestay-at-home mom gig, I wouldn't
have even called myself astay-at-home mom.
I would have said a full-timestuff manager would have been a
(04:49):
better title, because that iswhat I did.
I was constantly picking upthings and looking for things
and tripping over things Ihadn't picked up yet.
It was just all consuming.
I was exhausted, I was stressed, I was distracted, like I was
there but I wasn't really there.
Stressed, I was distracted Iwas there but I wasn't really
there.
I couldn't be present to thepeople around me, and so I was
just overwhelmed.
(05:09):
In a couple months into livingthis way, I was diagnosed with
postpartum depression and I havethis memory of this morning
where I was up in the nursery, Iwas feeding the baby and I was
talking to God, really pleadingwith God.
I was like God, this is notwhat I signed up for.
What is going on here?
Something needs to change, andI was reading the Bible and a
couple of verses out of Luke,chapter 12, they just jumped off
(05:31):
the page at me and they saidyour life does not consist of
possessions.
Be rich in what matters.
And so I paused right there andI asked myself was I rich in
what matters?
Was I rich in relationships,time for prayer, time for a
hobby that I loved?
And the answer was no,absolutely not.
I wasn't.
So that planted the seed thatsomething in my life around the
(05:52):
area of possessions needed tochange.
But I didn't know what.
I didn't know where to go fromthere.
But that same week I had atherapy appointment and at the
end of the session, just as Iwas leaving, the therapist said
Julia, have you ever heard ofminimalism?
I'm like, oh, you mean houseswith white walls and next to
nothing in them.
And she's like no, there's moreto it than that.
Look into it, I think you mightbe interested.
(06:15):
So I was curious.
I did a Google search in the carright there on minimalism and
realized there's a lot ofresources about it.
So I started reading the booksand the blogs.
I listened to a lot of podcastsand this idea that I didn't
need all this stuff to be happyand in fact, I'd be a whole lot
happier with less of it, becausethen I'd have the time and the
(06:36):
energy to focus on who and whatmattered.
It was a mindset shift that waslife-changing, and it finally
gave me a vision of how to getout of this postpartum
depression tunnel that I feltlike I was stuck in at the time.
So I went all in on minimalism.
We got rid of 75% of our stuffover the course of a year, yeah,
and I started a blog at thetime.
(06:58):
I called it Rich in whatMatters, based on the Bible
verse that spoke to me, andwe've been living this way now,
as a minimalist family, for sixyears.
We downsized to an apartmentfor a while, got out of debt,
built a new home after thatthat's intentionally smaller,
and so, yeah, that's been thelast six years.
It's been an amazing journey.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Wow, what an awesome story, and so many things are
bubbling up for me, as I'm sureare for our listeners.
I think the first thing thatreally struck me is how you are
able to see where your shopping,your gathering, your
consumerism stemmed from, and asa therapist for 20 years, I
(07:42):
know the value of going back andunderstanding like, where did
this start?
How did I come to this place?
And so for you to tell thestory about your grandmother and
I'm sure you had a lovelyrelationship with her.
She's somebody very near anddear to your heart, and so you
think if this is good forgrandma, it's good for me, like
(08:02):
she's a wonderful woman, right?
These are some of the thingsthat she did, and so it's
natural for us to want toimitate our parents or our
grandparents when we love themand we're so close to them, and
so I really appreciate yousharing just where, where it all
came from for you, because Ithink that's important for all
(08:23):
of us to look back and go hey,if we're collecting stuff, if
we're gathering things up in ourhomes, or if we are saving
things and having a fear ofgetting rid of them, that all
comes from an experience, anduntil we get to that.
I think one of the things thatI've been guilty of is just like
these little hacks to try tofigure out how to, you know, get
(08:46):
rid of things.
And then what happens next isthat all of a sudden, I've
gotten rid of half of my closet,and guess what?
I filled it back up, right.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right, that's something a lot of people deal
with.
I'm glad you brought that up,Because what I found is that
decluttering your home can giveyou a dopamine hit, just like
buying something new can.
So you can get in the cycle ofdecluttering there's your
dopamine hit, and then you'd buystuff back and you're
decluttering again.
So you're never really feelingthe actual true freedom from
(09:19):
living with less stuff becauseyou're constantly filling that
space back up with more stuff.
And I think that that's why mynew book Declutter your Heart
and your Home how a MinimalistLife Yields Maximum Joy is
helpful because it goes to theheart of the matter too.
We're not just decluttering ourouter home, we're looking at our
inner home as well, where wedeal with things like
restlessness and comparison andhurry and fear and distraction.
(09:43):
Because, for example, if we'restill dealing with comparison
and we're trying to declutterour home, we get rid of our
stuff.
Say, your closet, for example,half your clothes are gone.
But then you see your neighborand oh, her outfits are great
and you're comparing yourselfand maybe you need those too,
and so you buy them all back andthere you go again your closet
is full.
So we need to really uprootthose things that clutter our
(10:05):
heart too, to find the realfreedom in living with less.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I love that Declutter your heart and your home
because they're so tied together, right?
What we do, our behaviors aretied to our beliefs and our
thoughts, and so gettingdrilling down to our thoughts
and our beliefs about you knowwhat we're gathering up and
saving and all of those thingswill help us change our behavior
(10:30):
and keep that behavior changed,right.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So one of the things that I noticed too on your
website is just how youmentioned that the state of our
homes often reflect the state ofour souls, and that has been
such an interesting concept forme.
And also, I will admit, and Itold my son he's homesick today
and I was telling him about thisinterview and I said, son, I'm
(11:00):
going to tell her like, if thestate of our home reflects
something about our soul, I amseriously afraid for my soul
when I look at my basementbecause it's bad, julia, it's
bad, it's like unfinished, it'sspace we don't actually, in my
opinion, need, and so it hasbecome a storage ground and a
(11:23):
place where we save things andstore things from outside down
there and it's just a holydisaster.
So tell us a little bit moreabout this concept of how our
physical environment reflectsthe state of our soul.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah.
So the book is divided intothree sections that parallel a
journey through an outer and aninner home.
So section one is laying thefoundation and decluttering the
soul.
Then you journey up through thehome.
You get to section two, whichis decluttering the main floor
and the heart.
So an example chapter herewould be decluttering your
wardrobe and letting go ofcomparison.
(12:00):
Then you continue your journeyup through the home to section
three.
You get to decluttering theupstairs and decluttering the
mind.
An example chapter here wouldbe decluttering sentimental
items and letting go of fear.
As I was decluttering myunneeded physical items, what I
realized is that I was actuallycurating two homes, an outer
home and an inner home.
(12:20):
So the first housed mypossessions and the second the
home of my soul.
It housed God, and I think it'simportant to consider our inner
home.
God has created this inner homewithin every human being.
We hear Paul's words.
He says our bodies are templesof the Holy Spirit.
So we've got this innerstructure where the Holy Spirit
(12:40):
is designed to live within us.
And we hear St Teresa of Avila.
She talks about it too.
She says the soul resembles acastle.
There's inner rooms.
We access it through prayer.
So we have this inner structure, and so the question I think
that I started asking myself Irealized I needed to ask myself
was do I have space for God'spresence within me?
(13:02):
So what is the state of my innerhome looking like?
If he was at the door andknocking, could he open that
door?
Or was it full of clutter?
Were there boxes of innerclutter all over this inner home
and he couldn't even really getin?
And then, if he could get in,he could squeeze his way through
the Holy Spirit's wedged in acorner.
He wants to move freelythroughout our inner home so we
(13:23):
can feel his promptingsthroughout the day, but if we
have all this inner clutter, wereally can't.
He can't move, our soul isstifled.
And so, you know, I realizedthat we just need to consider
the state of our homes and thatyour outer environment can serve
(13:43):
as a lens to this innerenvironment, and so we can ask
ourselves about that, but not ina shitting way.
That doesn't do any good.
It's not time to feel guilty.
It's more about a curious andobserving way.
So you can ask yourself what ismy home reflecting back to me?
Is it chaos, is it distraction?
Is it peace, is it calm?
(14:04):
And are those accuratedescriptors of my inner home as
well?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So good, so good, and I do believe this to be true.
I find that the most freedom Iexperience internally is when
I'm in the space in my home thatis the most organized and tidy
(14:29):
and just simple.
You know and so I think aboutthat when I think about my
interior life too that when mycalendar becomes overran with
kids activities and meetings andnetworking events and all the
fun you know double dates andall of this I start really
(14:50):
crowding out space forcontemplation, for meditation,
for just nurturing my spirituallife and protecting that time
around, praying in the morningor just reading a good book and
contemplating the words on thepage.
And so I get this, like I getthis and I like how you talk
(15:16):
about the three sections of yourbook.
So it's not about like torchingit all and like start from
scratch, running to the you knowstudio apartment with your
family of five or whatever, andjust being extreme, but starting
in small ways to chip away atthe clutter and in your calendar
(15:38):
so that you can startexperiencing those little bits
of freedom and getting thosesmall wins and then be able to
kind of move to the next levelof minimizing things in your
heart and your home.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And I think a lot of the reason your basement might
look like it does is becauseyou've got a lot going on too.
When we're so busy, like yousaid, we don't attend to the
little things.
Well, our mind's always on thenext thing, and the only place
we can meet God is in thepresent moment, and if we're
always looking to the next thingand our next commitment or our
next purchase, we miss him.
(16:13):
He's there, wanting to connectwith us, wanting to be with us.
As Augustine said, he wants tobe closer to us than we are to
ourselves, and so we need tomake space for him to move
within us and we can feel himwith us.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yes, yes.
What are some of the tips thatyou give, maybe in your book or
on your website, for people tojust practically get started in
decluttering, let's say, theirhome?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
first.
So I would say that it'simportant to think about where
you start.
There's really no right orwrong way to declutter, but I
found that there's a mostefficient way to declutter that
worked for me.
And so what I did is I hadheard from decluttering coaches
and this works for some peopleis to start in a non-sentimental
, contained area maybe yourkitchen drawer and start from
(17:06):
there, start with little winsand then work your way up.
And I tried that and I had thisreally nice, tidy kitchen
drawer and it gave me thedopamine hit of finishing a
project.
But then what I found was thatI would turn around and our
house was just flooded with kidsstuff and my stress levels just
skyrocketed again.
So it wasn't really makingfunctional change in our home.
So what I ended up doing is Ijust took a piece of paper and
(17:29):
wrote down all the cluttercategories in my home that I
wanted to declutter and I ratedthem on a scale of which were
causing me the most stress.
So 10 was the most stressful,one was the least.
Gave them the numbers andthat's the order that I
decluttered our home.
I started with kids' clothes.
They were everywhere and afterI had decluttered our kids'
(17:50):
clothes, I felt an immediatelightning in the home, one that
I hadn't felt with the kitchendrawer.
And even our daughter, who wasfive at the time, she could
start helping with laundry.
Then she wanted to.
I found her one morning by thelaundry basket rolling her
clothes, getting ready to putthem in her drawer, because now
there was less stuff and itmatched her ability level and
(18:12):
she could actually help out.
And when I saw that she wasdoing that independently, I was
like I am on to something and Iwas motivated.
I was motivated then to go onto kids toys, which was the next
, the next section.
So Okay, that is so practical.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I love it.
You're saying just take out apiece of paper and write down
the areas of your home and thenrate them one to 10.
What's driving you the mostnuts?
What's causing you the mostagitation or irritability?
And then start there becausethat's very personal to you.
It's not just saying, you know,generically, start in your
kitchen and just do the you knowspatula, drawer or whatever,
(18:48):
but instead go with what'sdriving you most nuts.
This is such great practicaladvice.
This is something that peoplecan implement today is just
taking a personal inventory ofthings and then marking down
maybe the first thing thatyou're going to do and then set
a date on your calendar.
When is it that you're going totake action and move through
(19:10):
that first area of your home?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yep, and there's multiple ways you can do it.
You can set a date for yourself, get the childcare in and just
knock out that section.
That's what I did with the kidsclothes.
Or you can just get up 15minutes earlier a day and do 15
minutes a day chipping away atthat most stressful clutter
category, and that'll give yougood results too.
Either way.
Well, if you declutter 15minutes a day, that's seven and
(19:33):
a half hours a month, that's 90hours a year.
You can get a lot done in 90hours a year.
So small consistent changes, orsmall consistent efforts, can
lead to big changes.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yes, that is our strategy over here at Families
of Character is small changesover time yield big results.
I love it.
It's just the small thingsdaily.
Well, why does this matter forour kids?
Like raising kids with lessstuff.
What advantages do our kidshave leaving the home, being
(20:05):
raised in an environment wherethere's just less stuff around.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
There's so many benefits for kids living in an
environment with less stuff.
I think that leaving the home,they realize that you don't have
to live a life that everybodyelse does to be happy.
You don't have to look toexternal things to give you joy,
it's more about the internalthings, and you don't have to be
attached to possessions.
(20:29):
There's a freedom in that, adifferent mentality, and I think
too that kids they're sogenerous too, and so I think it
teaches generosity to kids whenyou're just consistently making
it your family's culture thatyou don't hold on to everything.
If you get something new, okay,you're going to give something
(20:51):
back to somebody who doesn'thave something because you don't
need all this stuff.
We just don't.
And um, it's funny too, thinkingabout kids as we were talking
earlier before we startedrecording, is that a lot of
times moms hold on to all thisstuff that they think their kids
are going to want when they'reolder.
And even just yesterday I wastalking to someone on a podcast
(21:13):
who said they kept theirumbilical cord clamp for their
children.
Like they're multiple.
She had eight kids.
She kept all these umbilicalcord clamps to give them when
they left the house.
I'm like they don't want thatthey don't.
It's just whatever you'rekeeping for your kids, you're
actually keeping for yourself.
So don't hold on to all thisstuff that you think your kids
(21:37):
are going to need.
Teach your kids generosity.
Teach them that there's adifferent, lighter way to live.
You don't have to live the waysociety says that you do.
You can have an abundant lifewithout an abundance of stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
So good.
You're saying that holding onto stuff for our kids, keeping
bins and baskets full of thingsthat we're going to drop off on
their porch when they're 45,right, and say here's all your
things from childhood is reallynot going to benefit them,
because we have gathered up thisstuff ourselves as the mom or
(22:11):
the dad, and so what's insidethe box is actually for us.
So if we were saving our ownmemory box, we actually should.
Those boxes should be ours tokeep because those are our
memories.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Absolutely Yep.
Choose a couple of thoseumbilical cord clamps and put
them in your own memory box.
Yes, they are for you.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That's right.
Y'all have got to go to herblog, richinwhatmatterscom, and
read about this, because thisreally is such a different way
(22:54):
of thinking about things familylife and we help our kids truly
assimilate something that theyreceive from someone and take it
in in a deeply emotional waywhere they can connect with this
thing.
Then there's not this need tokeep the thing right.
Instead, we're helping them tolog a memory in their mind and
(23:19):
to feel that connection or thatgift in their body so that they
can be free to let it go and letit resonate inside of them.
That I belong to is just thisidea of you know, when you
receive something.
For example, our 13-year-oldson just had a birthday and my
(23:48):
brother, who is his godfather,wrote him a nice letter, a
handwritten letter, sent itthrough the mail, and I had my
son read it to himself and thenread it slowly out loud, and
then read it sentence bysentence, with a deep inhale and
(24:10):
exhale after each sentence,after each period, and so he was
able to like, fully embrace themessage.
And there were funny things andthere were serious things and
there were very sentimental,sweet things in there, but in
doing that I thought you know,I'm helping him to just really
truly receive this gift in thedeepest way.
(24:32):
It's something that someonetaught me how to do and then we
can be.
He can be free to keep that inhis little box, or to throw it
right in the trash or shred itor do whatever he'd like with it
, make a paper airplane out ofit.
It's not about the thing, it'sabout the experience and really
truly taking it in.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
That's interesting.
Yeah, I haven't heard thatbefore.
I love that, though, and Ithink that could actually help
people decluttering sentimentalitems too, because the truth is
that our memories are keptwithin us they're not within our
stuff, and a lot of the reasonswe don't let go of things is
because we're afraid we're goingto lose that memory if we
discard that possession.
This could be a great tool ifyou have letters or cards that
(25:14):
you don't want to hold on to Alot of times, I tell people take
a picture of it, and then youcan go back on your phone and
you can look at it there.
You can still have the memorieswithout the stuff, but this is
a way to almost encode thosememories more deeply into us.
They are there, but we can getthem even more strongly into our
being.
I like that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yes, read it one time through to yourself, one time
aloud, at a little slower pace,and then one time with a deep
inhale and exhale, blowing itall out before you start the
next sentence.
Yeah, it's been a great gift tolearn how to do this myself, and
I really believe that this wayof living more simply will give
(25:56):
us, like you said, freedomfreedom not only in our interior
lives, but also just freedom tofocus on what matters most in
our marriages and in family life, and I love that idea.
So this is this is just awesomeIn terms of kids leaving the
(26:21):
home, realizing that there's adifferent way to live.
I really want to kind of goback to that, because they truly
won't know that they can livedifferently and set up their
dorm room differently or theirapartment differently than their
assigned roommate if they don'tlive differently at home.
They're not just going to livewith a bunch of stuff and have
(26:44):
clutter everywhere and then takeoff and to the university and
roll into their dorm room andlive with like barely anything.
This is just not going tohappen.
We have to condition them inour homes, right?
So what was it like for youwhen you downsized and you said
like hey, we even went into anapartment, a small apartment, so
(27:05):
that we could get ourselvesback on our feet financially
because of the consumerism thatwe had been wrapped up in.
What was it like?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
to downsize like that it was better than I expected.
I had a few reservations atfirst.
How is my daughter, who wasfive at the time?
The baby didn't know anydifferent.
But how is my five-year-oldgoing to react to this?
I remember holding my breathafter I decluttered her room.
I did the initial toy purgemyself.
I knew what she loved.
I didn't want her to startprofessing her love for all
(27:37):
these things that I knew shedidn't toys that were she didn't
play with.
So I did the initial toy purgemyself.
But then, like going forward, Ilet her help me.
I have her do now all themaintenance decluttering.
But so I held my breath when shewalked into her newly
decluttered room and she lovedit.
She looked at me.
She said mom, thank you.
And she was twirling around herroom with all the space.
(27:57):
I'm like you're kidding me.
She loves it, yeah, and I.
I loved it too, and I couldjust go sit on the floor and
play with her where before I didnot want to enter that room
because it didn't make me feelgood to be in it.
Honestly, I felt like mynervous system was being pinged
constantly.
And then there she was talking.
She's super social.
So there she is talking my earoff.
(28:18):
I'm like I can't focus on you.
And so the first time I couldgo in and I remember just
sitting next to her in the roomthere and really focusing on her
I'm like this is how it shouldbe.
This is wonderful, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Oh, that draws a memory up for me about you know,
once or twice a year we'll godown into the dungeon basement
where we've put toys and youknow whatever crafts, and you
know the cage for the chinchillathat we've never gotten yet.
You know all the things andwe'll just go, you know what.
Let's just get in here and andget this tidied up and and take
(28:54):
a trip to you know the arc orwhatever, and get the space you
know like looking like we wouldwant to spend time here and our
kids love it.
They will spend like two daysdown there and just be laughing
and giggling and and inventingthings and like being so
creative.
(29:15):
And so I think your point is agood one where we don't have to
be worried about them like, oh,missing things, they're actually
missing things If their roomsare declutter.
Their rooms are cluttered.
They're missing things if theirrooms are cluttered because
they're not able to access thosecreative parts of their mind in
(29:36):
order to just go there.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Absolutely, you're right.
I think a lot of parents dohave those reservations that if
I let go of my kids' stuff I'mgoing to be harming my kids.
And society tells us that Moreis better.
Buy your kids more, buy yourkids a good childhood.
So if I let go of this stuffI'm going to be harming my kids,
and if you believe that, Ibelieve your kids are going to
sense that.
(29:59):
So when you are startingdecluttering with them, I think
it's important to work throughyour own reservations first, so
that you can talk to them from aplace of assurance and calm.
And it can help to read theresearch like you were
mentioning their creativity,their problem-solving skills,
their ability to play moredeeply, more independently it
(30:19):
all flourishes in a simpleenvironment.
There's research that showsthat.
There is a study I love out ofGermany where the researchers
removed all the toys from akindergarten room and they
watched to see what the kidswould do.
And at first day one the kidsdidn't really know what to do.
They were just kind of walkingaround aimlessly.
They weren't sure what to do.
(30:39):
But by day two they wereplaying so creatively with the
desks, with the chairs, withwhatever was in the room in
their own imaginative worlds.
And the researchers didconclude this that the kids
played more deeply, morecreatively in a simple
environment.
And so I think, when we canreally understand that we're
(30:59):
doing our kids a huge favor whenwe simplify their environments,
it can help us bring thatculture into our family.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So so good.
Yes, and and that makes methink, okay, what about grandma,
who had all this stuff andshopped all the time?
And it's kid's birthday time,it's, it's Christmas, it's every
holiday where they want toshower them with all this stuff?
So I'm sure you've helpedpeople with this issue, or maybe
(31:27):
even dealt with it yourself.
How do you set boundaries withyour family so that, when it
comes time for birthdays andgift giving, that you're not
getting bombed on with all thisstuff that you're going to turn
around and politely give away?
I mean, how do you handle that?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, that's real and people.
Grandma gives things becauseshe wants to show love.
Giving a gift is simply anexpression of love, and so what
I found is helpful is you canreceive that love.
You can receive that gift andafter you've received it, it's
completely yours to decide whatyou want to do with it.
Then you can decide to give itaway, keep it if it's being
(32:05):
played with, but if you'rewanting to even limit the amount
of stuff that's coming intoyour environment, you can talk
to talk to grandma, talk to theperson who wants to give the
gifts, and you can tell themspecifically what you want them
to get your children.
It doesn't have to be stuff.
It could be an experience, thezoo pass, it could be something
consumable bath bombs or a bighit at our house with four girls
(32:27):
, and so you can still let themgive things if that's what they
love to do, but it doesn't haveto be the latest gadget or
noise-making toy that you'rejust going to find.
That's driving you crazy.
And then you're going to donateit, and they probably would
like to be a more intentionalshopper for your family, so that
their money is going towardwhat will be used and
(32:50):
appreciated too.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yes, I always love that when people say you know
what would be a good gift to getfor your child, and I don't
think that, oh, they're notputting any time and effort into
this gift and they just want aquick, like Amazon idea.
You know, I really do thinkthey're going.
You know, I feel like givingyour child something, but I
(33:12):
don't just want to give themanything.
Like I, I want this to bepurposeful and meaningful, and
so you know your kids best.
So what is that?
So I think we could do thatourselves right when we're
shopping for people as well asas thinking about the family,
and if, if they are trying todeclutter and live a more simple
life, then maybe an experienceor an invitation to go to the
(33:35):
water park and buy their ticketin and have a fun memory would
be better than buying them allthe stuff that they could use at
the pool.
It's going to get lost.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Absolutely.
I have a good friend who knowsI live a minimalist lifestyle
that our family does, and so wethrew a birthday party last
summer for my son, when heturned four.
She texted me right away okay,what does he want?
And my son loves clothes.
So I said he loves clothes, buyhim some clothes.
So she had this t-shirt madewith his name on it.
It has like a baseball bat anda soccer ball and he loved it.
(34:09):
It was his favorite gift ofanything he got, wore it every
single day, had his name on it.
It was clothes, this blue shirt.
So I think that it does help toask you know, what do they like
?
And then you can get somethingthat they really do love instead
of just something they pitchyeah.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yes, oh, this is so, so good.
So when you started downsizing,it sounded like you started
with your child's room.
You went through and did itlike did the major decluttering
first and the things you knewshe didn't like, and then
allowed her to kind of pickthrough things when you move to
a smaller home, because this isa big time right, this is like
(34:49):
not just staying in the placeyou're in and decluttering, but
it's like picking up and movingin and downsizing.
What kind of fears did you have?
You know making that move?
Was it and was it your idea?
Was your husband on board?
Were you both like gung-hoabout this thing?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, I think I probably planted the seed first
and he did get on board with itbecause it made sense.
It just made sense.
We were finding so much freedomin this lifestyle.
We're like why don't we go evendeeper in it and just see what
it's like?
And it was great.
By that time, when we moved, Ididn't have a lot of
reservations about getting ridof much more.
(35:28):
It makes me think that theaverage home now has 300,000
possessions in it, over 300,000items in it, the average home
and we only use 20% of our stuff.
So I really, when we moved, Iwas like well, we only use 20%
of our stuff, let's just bringthe 20%.
And so that was a really,really efficient way for me just
(35:49):
to realize is this something Iuse and love every day?
No, okay, you're not going tocome with me and I'm not going
to miss you, and I didn't.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh my goodness, 300,000,.
Julia, it's a ton.
This is insane.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like that is crazy.
And I'm looking around just mylittle office here in the
podcast studio thinking, yep, Ican see how it could get up to
300,000.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
We live in a culture now.
Yeah, our culture now has morepossessions, more stuff, than
any culture in the history ofthe world.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
So, yes, it's amazing , like you said, oh wild, and
just that we hold on to thingsthat we don't need or use or
have multiple things.
I have three printers.
Okay, why am I so afraid thatone of them is going to break
down that I need two backups?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
right?
No, I don't even own a printer.
I probably do need to buy aprinter eventually, cause I'm
texting my parents.
I'm like, can you print thisfor us?
Or running, you know, to a shopthat has a coffee shop that has
a printer in it, like, okay,this would be a valid purchase
coffee shop that has a printerin it Like okay, this would be a
valid purchase, Okay, so onceyou go to the other side, then
you have to kind of reallydiscern is this something we
(36:56):
really do need, or can we getaway with not having it?
And honestly, Jordan, I thinkthat's how you find out how to
live with enough.
I think you have to experimenton the side of too little,
because all of us know well,most of us in this day and age
know what it's like to live withtoo much stuff, but we don't
know what it's like to live withtoo little.
And so when we declutter, wecan think about being ruthless,
going even deeper than you thinkyou need to see.
See what you can live without.
(37:16):
And you don't have to let go ofit right away.
You can box it up in a cornerof your basement storage.
Go three months, see what it'slike living without it, See if
you actually needed it or not.
Go, pull it back if you do,because that's how we find how
to live with enough.
That's how we find when we'redone decluttering.
It's when we reach that levelwhere we've added a little bit
more back in and that's feelinggood to us.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yes, I love that tip.
I read that on your websiteabout the spatula.
Could you actually live withjust one spatula?
Well, try it for a month.
get rid of all your other youknow cooking utensils or all the
seven spatulas, and just putthe one in there and if you can
make it for a month, then guesswhat you can donate the rest of
those.
And that again is practicaladvice of how to start small and
(38:03):
to kind of test it out and giveyourself permission to get into
this way of thinking and livingand decluttering in a very safe
, non-threatening, likenon-scary way.
So good.
So I imagine your book, whichshould be on my doorstep anytime
since I pre-ordered it andtoday's like launch day, but I
(38:26):
imagine it's going to show upsoon.
But tell us a little bit about,like, who is this book for?
Would you say it's forabsolutely anyone.
Is there a particular you knowperson you were thinking of
besides mom?
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, it's written.
It's written for moms, that'sthe main take on it, but I would
say it's for anyone who wantsto live a lighter life with less
stuff.
Whether you're an empty nesterand you're looking to downsize,
you're still a mom maybe not inthe toys aren't everywhere
anymore, but you're still.
You're still decluttering yourhome, You're looking to downsize
(39:02):
.
So it's got tools throughoutfor anyone, any woman who wants
to declutter their hearts andtheir homes.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I love it.
Okay, well, I'm super excitedand it is going to be linked in
the show notes so that you canjust click right below the
episode here that you'rewatching or listening to and
grab a copy of the book.
Do you do any coaching withwomen when it comes to
decluttering their heart andtheir home?
(39:31):
Do you have workshops or otherresources available for women?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I do Yep, I'm an online educator, I have courses,
so you can find those coursesat my website, at my blog,
richinwhatmatterscom.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Awesome.
Have you ever heard of and I'masking because I'm thinking I've
got to get an accountabilitybuddy have you ever heard of and
I'm asking because I'm thinkingI've got to get an
accountability buddy?
Have you ever heard of a fewwomen like taking your workshop
together or watching the onlinevideos together and then like
doing this as buddies, likeaccountability partner?
Okay, here's where we're goingto start, ladies.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
That would be a really powerful way to do it.
I think, yeah, you couldtotally do that.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yes, there's such strength in numbers of knowing
that there's other people thatare like getting on board with
this too, and that you couldhave a little community of
people that are, you know,working towards a common goal.
We talk about that a lot atFamilies of Character is like if
I have a goal as a mom, to makemy bed every day, but I don't
share that with my child and I'mdepriving them of the freedom
(40:27):
that I experience when I makethe right choice right away,
when I get up in the morning todeny myself something I'd rather
do, and do something that isgood for me and is healthy for
me.
And so I like the idea of alittle community of moms that
are like we're going to livesimpler lives, we're going to
live with less and we're goingto, you know, encourage our kids
(40:50):
and live a more simplelifestyle with our entire family
, so that we can all make spacein our hearts, in our homes, for
the number one thing thatmatters.
And that is God to do his workin us and for us to have that
space to shine the light that hewants us to go out in our
(41:11):
communities, in ourneighborhoods and in our
workplaces and in our homes toreally shine.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yes, absolutely, I love that.
I think that we weren'tdesigned to live way down by
clutter.
When we do free that space inour homes, in our souls, we do
have more space to shine in theareas that he's put us in in our
lives, around the people whohe's planted near us for a
reason.
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yes, so good.
Well, are you on any of thesocial media channels?
Can people follow you there?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, I'm on Instagram.
Yep, we have a fun Instagramcommunity at rich and what
matters.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Wonderful.
Okay, check that out, guys.
Not because you're trying toclutter your mind and do more
things, but because we need away to connect to people who we
resonate with, who are offering,you know, free tools to help us
get started, who have resourceslike a book and courses that we
can take Again, not to ask youto do one more thing, but to ask
(42:13):
you to do something that willmake a ripple effect in your
life for the good and for thegood of your family.
So, julia, I'm hoping toreconnect with you in like six
months and be able to tell youthe progression of my
decluttering and what I've donefrom the time of this recording
(42:34):
until, like you know, six monthslater, because this is my jam,
like I think I've been needingthis message personally for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, I would love to reconnect with you and hear how
it's going.
I love hearing people's stories.
I get DMs all the time onInstagram saying you know, I
just decluttered this and I feelso good and I'm like keep going
, make it happen.
So I love encouraging peopleand hearing their stories
because I know what a changeit's made in my life and so I
know that it can in the lives ofothers too.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yes, this is wonderful.
Okay, you guys, check out Juliaat richinwhatmatterscom and buy
a copy of her book.
You've got the link.
It's gone out in our Tuesdayemail newsletter so you can find
it there too, but it's calledDeclutter your Heart and your
(43:26):
Home.
Grab a copy of it now and let'sfocus on what truly matters.
Julia, thank you for being onour show.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Thanks so much, jordan, it was a fun
conversation.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Guys, I will catch up with you on another episode
real soon.
Please do us a favor.
Share this with your spouse forsure, to get them listening and
on board with this idea ofliving with less, and also share
it with friends in your circles.
Text it out to people.
Send our Tuesday email along toothers who might not be getting
(43:57):
our weekly newsletter, so thatothers may hear the message and
we can spread the message farand wide.
Thanks so much for joining usand I'll catch you real soon.
Take care.
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
If you ever get kind of likefrustrated with the mess, the
stuff and the endless piles inyour kid's room or in the living
room, you're not alone.
Okay, I myself have had littlefantasies of just like striking
a match and honestly torched itall.
(00:22):
Okay, because it getsoverwhelming, right.
I never do that, but sometimesjust all of the stuff that we
have cluttering up our homes forme, it just drives me a little
bit nuts and then I get agitatedand, as the good old saying
goes, if mama ain't happy, ain'tnobody happy goes.
(00:50):
If mama ain't happy, ain'tnobody happy.
So then all of a sudden the homeis not a place of peace and
refreshment, but it's naggingand threatening.
If you don't pick your stuff up, then guess what's going to
happen and it all just kind ofspirals out of control.
So if you can relate, just sitback, relax, enjoy the show,
because today on our show we'vegot a minimalist living coach
(01:12):
and creator of a popular blogcalled Rich in what Matters here
with us today.
She's going to help usunderstand how to raise kids
with less stuff and talk aboutthe benefits of all of us living
a bit more simply.
So welcome to the show JuliaUbenga.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks, jordan, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Julia, you are one of us.
You're married, you have fivekids, you prioritize your faith,
you're a working mom, youtotally get it.
And even with all that going on, you just finished writing a
book that launched, I believe,today, the day this podcast is
out called Declutter your Heartand Home, and you did that
(01:58):
because of your passion forhelping people learn how to live
with less.
So if you wouldn't mind, jumpin and tell us more about what
kind of inspired you to writethis book and how it reflects
your own personal journey towardminimalism.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So I think so many people can relate to what you
said at the beginning there.
So many moms are overwhelmed athome right now, and a lot of
the reason that we'reoverwhelmed and we're exhausted
is we simply have too much stuff, too much stuff to manage in
our home, in our hearts, in ourminds.
And there's a quote I love fromSt Teresa of Calcutta.
She said the more you own, themore you are occupied, but the
(02:38):
less you own, the more free youare.
And we're not made to live insurvival mode.
We're not made to live our daysexhausted, on edge, nagging our
kids constantly.
We're made for abundant livesand we can have those lives.
We can end the chaos, thedistraction, the discontent.
And so I wrote the book becauseI wanted to give moms the tools
(03:01):
to live a simpler life, ifthey're feeling called to do
that.
A simpler life with less stuff.
And I myself, I am a minimalist, now a mom of five kids, like
you said, ages 11, 7, 4, 2 intwo months and I have not always
been a minimalist, thoughpretty far from it.
I grew up close to my grandmaand my grandma loved to shop.
(03:23):
She would shop whether sheneeded something or not, whether
she had the money or not, itwas her love language.
I'd go into her home and I'dsee her closet.
She had multiple closets.
They're just filled.
They were stuffed with newclothes.
80% still had the price tags onthem.
So when I spent time with mygrandma, we'd go shopping and
what I learned was that shoppingwas fun.
It was a way to feel good.
(03:45):
It was a way not to feel badand to kind of cover up hard
feelings.
And I carried this mindset intomy 20s.
I started making money, Istarted spending money and
pretty soon I had a whole lot ofstuff and $40,000 worth of
consumer debt.
So when I thought about thisstuff I felt bad.
But when I felt bad I'd go buysomething new, because that's
what I thought would make mefeel good, what I thought would
(04:07):
make me happy.
And so the cycle continued upuntil the time our second
daughter was born and I wasworking outside the home as a
speech language pathologist atthe time.
But I always wanted to be a stayat home mom.
That was my dream to stay homewith our kids.
My husband got a promotion atthe time and I could stay home.
I was so excited.
But I had this really idyllicvision of what stay-at-home mom
(04:28):
life would be like In my mind.
I would be with our daughtersbaking cookies, snuggling on the
couch reading Little House onthe Prairie, giggling over tea
parties.
So in my mind it was just goingto be great.
But a couple of weeks into thestay-at-home mom gig, I wouldn't
have even called myself astay-at-home mom.
I would have said a full-timestuff manager would have been a
(04:49):
better title, because that iswhat I did.
I was constantly picking upthings and looking for things
and tripping over things Ihadn't picked up yet.
It was just all consuming.
I was exhausted, I was stressed, I was distracted, like I was
there but I wasn't really there.
Stressed, I was distracted Iwas there but I wasn't really
there.
I couldn't be present to thepeople around me, and so I was
just overwhelmed.
(05:09):
In a couple months into livingthis way, I was diagnosed with
postpartum depression and I havethis memory of this morning
where I was up in the nursery, Iwas feeding the baby and I was
talking to God, really pleadingwith God.
I was like God, this is notwhat I signed up for.
What is going on here?
Something needs to change, andI was reading the Bible and a
couple of verses out of Luke,chapter 12, they just jumped off
(05:31):
the page at me and they saidyour life does not consist of
possessions.
Be rich in what matters.
And so I paused right there andI asked myself was I rich in
what matters?
Was I rich in relationships,time for prayer, time for a
hobby that I loved?
And the answer was no,absolutely not.
I wasn't.
So that planted the seed thatsomething in my life around the
(05:52):
area of possessions needed tochange.
But I didn't know what.
I didn't know where to go fromthere.
But that same week I had atherapy appointment and at the
end of the session, just as Iwas leaving, the therapist said
Julia, have you ever heard ofminimalism?
I'm like, oh, you mean houseswith white walls and next to
nothing in them.
And she's like no, there's moreto it than that.
Look into it, I think you mightbe interested.
(06:15):
So I was curious.
I did a Google search in the carright there on minimalism and
realized there's a lot ofresources about it.
So I started reading the booksand the blogs.
I listened to a lot of podcastsand this idea that I didn't
need all this stuff to be happyand in fact, I'd be a whole lot
happier with less of it, becausethen I'd have the time and the
(06:36):
energy to focus on who and whatmattered.
It was a mindset shift that waslife-changing, and it finally
gave me a vision of how to getout of this postpartum
depression tunnel that I feltlike I was stuck in at the time.
So I went all in on minimalism.
We got rid of 75% of our stuffover the course of a year, yeah,
and I started a blog at thetime.
(06:58):
I called it Rich in whatMatters, based on the Bible
verse that spoke to me, andwe've been living this way now,
as a minimalist family, for sixyears.
We downsized to an apartmentfor a while, got out of debt,
built a new home after thatthat's intentionally smaller,
and so, yeah, that's been thelast six years.
It's been an amazing journey.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Wow, what an awesome story, and so many things are
bubbling up for me, as I'm sureare for our listeners.
I think the first thing thatreally struck me is how you are
able to see where your shopping,your gathering, your
consumerism stemmed from, and asa therapist for 20 years, I
(07:42):
know the value of going back andunderstanding like, where did
this start?
How did I come to this place?
And so for you to tell thestory about your grandmother and
I'm sure you had a lovelyrelationship with her.
She's somebody very near anddear to your heart, and so you
think if this is good forgrandma, it's good for me, like
(08:02):
she's a wonderful woman, right?
These are some of the thingsthat she did, and so it's
natural for us to want toimitate our parents or our
grandparents when we love themand we're so close to them, and
so I really appreciate yousharing just where, where it all
came from for you, because Ithink that's important for all
(08:23):
of us to look back and go hey,if we're collecting stuff, if
we're gathering things up in ourhomes, or if we are saving
things and having a fear ofgetting rid of them, that all
comes from an experience, anduntil we get to that.
I think one of the things thatI've been guilty of is just like
these little hacks to try tofigure out how to, you know, get
(08:46):
rid of things.
And then what happens next isthat all of a sudden, I've
gotten rid of half of my closet,and guess what?
I filled it back up, right.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right, that's something a lot of people deal
with.
I'm glad you brought that up,Because what I found is that
decluttering your home can giveyou a dopamine hit, just like
buying something new can.
So you can get in the cycle ofdecluttering there's your
dopamine hit, and then you'd buystuff back and you're
decluttering again.
So you're never really feelingthe actual true freedom from
(09:19):
living with less stuff becauseyou're constantly filling that
space back up with more stuff.
And I think that that's why mynew book Declutter your Heart
and your Home how a MinimalistLife Yields Maximum Joy is
helpful because it goes to theheart of the matter too.
We're not just decluttering ourouter home, we're looking at our
inner home as well, where wedeal with things like
restlessness and comparison andhurry and fear and distraction.
(09:43):
Because, for example, if we'restill dealing with comparison
and we're trying to declutterour home, we get rid of our
stuff.
Say, your closet, for example,half your clothes are gone.
But then you see your neighborand oh, her outfits are great
and you're comparing yourselfand maybe you need those too,
and so you buy them all back andthere you go again your closet
is full.
So we need to really uprootthose things that clutter our
(10:05):
heart too, to find the realfreedom in living with less.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I love that Declutter your heart and your home
because they're so tied together, right?
What we do, our behaviors aretied to our beliefs and our
thoughts, and so gettingdrilling down to our thoughts
and our beliefs about you knowwhat we're gathering up and
saving and all of those thingswill help us change our behavior
(10:30):
and keep that behavior changed,right.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So one of the things that I noticed too on your
website is just how youmentioned that the state of our
homes often reflect the state ofour souls, and that has been
such an interesting concept forme.
And also, I will admit, and Itold my son he's homesick today
and I was telling him about thisinterview and I said, son, I'm
(11:00):
going to tell her like, if thestate of our home reflects
something about our soul, I amseriously afraid for my soul
when I look at my basementbecause it's bad, julia, it's
bad, it's like unfinished, it'sspace we don't actually, in my
opinion, need, and so it hasbecome a storage ground and a
(11:23):
place where we save things andstore things from outside down
there and it's just a holydisaster.
So tell us a little bit moreabout this concept of how our
physical environment reflectsthe state of our soul.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah.
So the book is divided intothree sections that parallel a
journey through an outer and aninner home.
So section one is laying thefoundation and decluttering the
soul.
Then you journey up through thehome.
You get to section two, whichis decluttering the main floor
and the heart.
So an example chapter herewould be decluttering your
wardrobe and letting go ofcomparison.
(12:00):
Then you continue your journeyup through the home to section
three.
You get to decluttering theupstairs and decluttering the
mind.
An example chapter here wouldbe decluttering sentimental
items and letting go of fear.
As I was decluttering myunneeded physical items, what I
realized is that I was actuallycurating two homes, an outer
home and an inner home.
(12:20):
So the first housed mypossessions and the second the
home of my soul.
It housed God, and I think it'simportant to consider our inner
home.
God has created this inner homewithin every human being.
We hear Paul's words.
He says our bodies are templesof the Holy Spirit.
So we've got this innerstructure where the Holy Spirit
(12:40):
is designed to live within us.
And we hear St Teresa of Avila.
She talks about it too.
She says the soul resembles acastle.
There's inner rooms.
We access it through prayer.
So we have this inner structure, and so the question I think
that I started asking myself Irealized I needed to ask myself
was do I have space for God'spresence within me?
(13:02):
So what is the state of my innerhome looking like?
If he was at the door andknocking, could he open that
door?
Or was it full of clutter?
Were there boxes of innerclutter all over this inner home
and he couldn't even really getin?
And then, if he could get in,he could squeeze his way through
the Holy Spirit's wedged in acorner.
He wants to move freelythroughout our inner home so we
(13:23):
can feel his promptingsthroughout the day, but if we
have all this inner clutter, wereally can't.
He can't move, our soul isstifled.
And so, you know, I realizedthat we just need to consider
the state of our homes and thatyour outer environment can serve
(13:43):
as a lens to this innerenvironment, and so we can ask
ourselves about that, but not ina shitting way.
That doesn't do any good.
It's not time to feel guilty.
It's more about a curious andobserving way.
So you can ask yourself what ismy home reflecting back to me?
Is it chaos, is it distraction?
Is it peace, is it calm?
(14:04):
And are those accuratedescriptors of my inner home as
well?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So good, so good, and I do believe this to be true.
I find that the most freedom Iexperience internally is when
I'm in the space in my home thatis the most organized and tidy
(14:29):
and just simple.
You know and so I think aboutthat when I think about my
interior life too that when mycalendar becomes overran with
kids activities and meetings andnetworking events and all the
fun you know double dates andall of this I start really
(14:50):
crowding out space forcontemplation, for meditation,
for just nurturing my spirituallife and protecting that time
around, praying in the morningor just reading a good book and
contemplating the words on thepage.
And so I get this, like I getthis and I like how you talk
(15:16):
about the three sections of yourbook.
So it's not about like torchingit all and like start from
scratch, running to the you knowstudio apartment with your
family of five or whatever, andjust being extreme, but starting
in small ways to chip away atthe clutter and in your calendar
(15:38):
so that you can startexperiencing those little bits
of freedom and getting thosesmall wins and then be able to
kind of move to the next levelof minimizing things in your
heart and your home.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And I think a lot of the reason your basement might
look like it does is becauseyou've got a lot going on too.
When we're so busy, like yousaid, we don't attend to the
little things.
Well, our mind's always on thenext thing, and the only place
we can meet God is in thepresent moment, and if we're
always looking to the next thingand our next commitment or our
next purchase, we miss him.
(16:13):
He's there, wanting to connectwith us, wanting to be with us.
As Augustine said, he wants tobe closer to us than we are to
ourselves, and so we need tomake space for him to move
within us and we can feel himwith us.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yes, yes.
What are some of the tips thatyou give, maybe in your book or
on your website, for people tojust practically get started in
decluttering, let's say, theirhome?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
first.
So I would say that it'simportant to think about where
you start.
There's really no right orwrong way to declutter, but I
found that there's a mostefficient way to declutter that
worked for me.
And so what I did is I hadheard from decluttering coaches
and this works for some peopleis to start in a non-sentimental
, contained area maybe yourkitchen drawer and start from
(17:06):
there, start with little winsand then work your way up.
And I tried that and I had thisreally nice, tidy kitchen
drawer and it gave me thedopamine hit of finishing a
project.
But then what I found was thatI would turn around and our
house was just flooded with kidsstuff and my stress levels just
skyrocketed again.
So it wasn't really makingfunctional change in our home.
So what I ended up doing is Ijust took a piece of paper and
(17:29):
wrote down all the cluttercategories in my home that I
wanted to declutter and I ratedthem on a scale of which were
causing me the most stress.
So 10 was the most stressful,one was the least.
Gave them the numbers andthat's the order that I
decluttered our home.
I started with kids' clothes.
They were everywhere and afterI had decluttered our kids'
(17:50):
clothes, I felt an immediatelightning in the home, one that
I hadn't felt with the kitchendrawer.
And even our daughter, who wasfive at the time, she could
start helping with laundry.
Then she wanted to.
I found her one morning by thelaundry basket rolling her
clothes, getting ready to putthem in her drawer, because now
there was less stuff and itmatched her ability level and
(18:12):
she could actually help out.
And when I saw that she wasdoing that independently, I was
like I am on to something and Iwas motivated.
I was motivated then to go onto kids toys, which was the next
, the next section.
So Okay, that is so practical.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I love it.
You're saying just take out apiece of paper and write down
the areas of your home and thenrate them one to 10.
What's driving you the mostnuts?
What's causing you the mostagitation or irritability?
And then start there becausethat's very personal to you.
It's not just saying, you know,generically, start in your
kitchen and just do the you knowspatula, drawer or whatever,
(18:48):
but instead go with what'sdriving you most nuts.
This is such great practicaladvice.
This is something that peoplecan implement today is just
taking a personal inventory ofthings and then marking down
maybe the first thing thatyou're going to do and then set
a date on your calendar.
When is it that you're going totake action and move through
(19:10):
that first area of your home?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yep, and there's multiple ways you can do it.
You can set a date for yourself, get the childcare in and just
knock out that section.
That's what I did with the kidsclothes.
Or you can just get up 15minutes earlier a day and do 15
minutes a day chipping away atthat most stressful clutter
category, and that'll give yougood results too.
Either way.
Well, if you declutter 15minutes a day, that's seven and
(19:33):
a half hours a month, that's 90hours a year.
You can get a lot done in 90hours a year.
So small consistent changes, orsmall consistent efforts, can
lead to big changes.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yes, that is our strategy over here at Families
of Character is small changesover time yield big results.
I love it.
It's just the small thingsdaily.
Well, why does this matter forour kids?
Like raising kids with lessstuff.
What advantages do our kidshave leaving the home, being
(20:05):
raised in an environment wherethere's just less stuff around.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
There's so many benefits for kids living in an
environment with less stuff.
I think that leaving the home,they realize that you don't have
to live a life that everybodyelse does to be happy.
You don't have to look toexternal things to give you joy,
it's more about the internalthings, and you don't have to be
attached to possessions.
(20:29):
There's a freedom in that, adifferent mentality, and I think
too that kids they're sogenerous too, and so I think it
teaches generosity to kids whenyou're just consistently making
it your family's culture thatyou don't hold on to everything.
If you get something new, okay,you're going to give something
(20:51):
back to somebody who doesn'thave something because you don't
need all this stuff.
We just don't.
And um, it's funny too, thinkingabout kids as we were talking
earlier before we startedrecording, is that a lot of
times moms hold on to all thisstuff that they think their kids
are going to want when they'reolder.
And even just yesterday I wastalking to someone on a podcast
(21:13):
who said they kept theirumbilical cord clamp for their
children.
Like they're multiple.
She had eight kids.
She kept all these umbilicalcord clamps to give them when
they left the house.
I'm like they don't want thatthey don't.
It's just whatever you'rekeeping for your kids, you're
actually keeping for yourself.
So don't hold on to all thisstuff that you think your kids
(21:37):
are going to need.
Teach your kids generosity.
Teach them that there's adifferent, lighter way to live.
You don't have to live the waysociety says that you do.
You can have an abundant lifewithout an abundance of stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
So good.
You're saying that holding onto stuff for our kids, keeping
bins and baskets full of thingsthat we're going to drop off on
their porch when they're 45,right, and say here's all your
things from childhood is reallynot going to benefit them,
because we have gathered up thisstuff ourselves as the mom or
(22:11):
the dad, and so what's insidethe box is actually for us.
So if we were saving our ownmemory box, we actually should.
Those boxes should be ours tokeep because those are our
memories.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Absolutely Yep.
Choose a couple of thoseumbilical cord clamps and put
them in your own memory box.
Yes, they are for you.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That's right.
Y'all have got to go to herblog, richinwhatmatterscom, and
read about this, because thisreally is such a different way
(22:54):
of thinking about things familylife and we help our kids truly
assimilate something that theyreceive from someone and take it
in in a deeply emotional waywhere they can connect with this
thing.
Then there's not this need tokeep the thing right.
Instead, we're helping them tolog a memory in their mind and
(23:19):
to feel that connection or thatgift in their body so that they
can be free to let it go and letit resonate inside of them.
That I belong to is just thisidea of you know, when you
receive something.
For example, our 13-year-oldson just had a birthday and my
(23:48):
brother, who is his godfather,wrote him a nice letter, a
handwritten letter, sent itthrough the mail, and I had my
son read it to himself and thenread it slowly out loud, and
then read it sentence bysentence, with a deep inhale and
(24:10):
exhale after each sentence,after each period, and so he was
able to like, fully embrace themessage.
And there were funny things andthere were serious things and
there were very sentimental,sweet things in there, but in
doing that I thought you know,I'm helping him to just really
truly receive this gift in thedeepest way.
(24:32):
It's something that someonetaught me how to do and then we
can be.
He can be free to keep that inhis little box, or to throw it
right in the trash or shred itor do whatever he'd like with it
, make a paper airplane out ofit.
It's not about the thing, it'sabout the experience and really
truly taking it in.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
That's interesting.
Yeah, I haven't heard thatbefore.
I love that, though, and Ithink that could actually help
people decluttering sentimentalitems too, because the truth is
that our memories are keptwithin us they're not within our
stuff, and a lot of the reasonswe don't let go of things is
because we're afraid we're goingto lose that memory if we
discard that possession.
This could be a great tool ifyou have letters or cards that
(25:14):
you don't want to hold on to Alot of times, I tell people take
a picture of it, and then youcan go back on your phone and
you can look at it there.
You can still have the memorieswithout the stuff, but this is
a way to almost encode thosememories more deeply into us.
They are there, but we can getthem even more strongly into our
being.
I like that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yes, read it one time through to yourself, one time
aloud, at a little slower pace,and then one time with a deep
inhale and exhale, blowing itall out before you start the
next sentence.
Yeah, it's been a great gift tolearn how to do this myself, and
I really believe that this wayof living more simply will give
(25:56):
us, like you said, freedomfreedom not only in our interior
lives, but also just freedom tofocus on what matters most in
our marriages and in family life, and I love that idea.
So this is this is just awesomeIn terms of kids leaving the
(26:21):
home, realizing that there's adifferent way to live.
I really want to kind of goback to that, because they truly
won't know that they can livedifferently and set up their
dorm room differently or theirapartment differently than their
assigned roommate if they don'tlive differently at home.
They're not just going to livewith a bunch of stuff and have
(26:44):
clutter everywhere and then takeoff and to the university and
roll into their dorm room andlive with like barely anything.
This is just not going tohappen.
We have to condition them inour homes, right?
So what was it like for youwhen you downsized and you said
like hey, we even went into anapartment, a small apartment, so
(27:05):
that we could get ourselvesback on our feet financially
because of the consumerism thatwe had been wrapped up in.
What was it like?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
to downsize like that it was better than I expected.
I had a few reservations atfirst.
How is my daughter, who wasfive at the time?
The baby didn't know anydifferent.
But how is my five-year-oldgoing to react to this?
I remember holding my breathafter I decluttered her room.
I did the initial toy purgemyself.
I knew what she loved.
I didn't want her to startprofessing her love for all
(27:37):
these things that I knew shedidn't toys that were she didn't
play with.
So I did the initial toy purgemyself.
But then, like going forward, Ilet her help me.
I have her do now all themaintenance decluttering.
But so I held my breath when shewalked into her newly
decluttered room and she lovedit.
She looked at me.
She said mom, thank you.
And she was twirling around herroom with all the space.
(27:57):
I'm like you're kidding me.
She loves it, yeah, and I.
I loved it too, and I couldjust go sit on the floor and
play with her where before I didnot want to enter that room
because it didn't make me feelgood to be in it.
Honestly, I felt like mynervous system was being pinged
constantly.
And then there she was talking.
She's super social.
So there she is talking my earoff.
(28:18):
I'm like I can't focus on you.
And so the first time I couldgo in and I remember just
sitting next to her in the roomthere and really focusing on her
I'm like this is how it shouldbe.
This is wonderful, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Oh, that draws a memory up for me about you know,
once or twice a year we'll godown into the dungeon basement
where we've put toys and youknow whatever crafts, and you
know the cage for the chinchillathat we've never gotten yet.
You know all the things andwe'll just go, you know what.
Let's just get in here and andget this tidied up and and take
(28:54):
a trip to you know the arc orwhatever, and get the space you
know like looking like we wouldwant to spend time here and our
kids love it.
They will spend like two daysdown there and just be laughing
and giggling and and inventingthings and like being so
creative.
(29:15):
And so I think your point is agood one where we don't have to
be worried about them like, oh,missing things, they're actually
missing things If their roomsare declutter.
Their rooms are cluttered.
They're missing things if theirrooms are cluttered because
they're not able to access thosecreative parts of their mind in
(29:36):
order to just go there.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Absolutely, you're right.
I think a lot of parents dohave those reservations that if
I let go of my kids' stuff I'mgoing to be harming my kids.
And society tells us that Moreis better.
Buy your kids more, buy yourkids a good childhood.
So if I let go of this stuffI'm going to be harming my kids,
and if you believe that, Ibelieve your kids are going to
sense that.
(29:59):
So when you are startingdecluttering with them, I think
it's important to work throughyour own reservations first, so
that you can talk to them from aplace of assurance and calm.
And it can help to read theresearch like you were
mentioning their creativity,their problem-solving skills,
their ability to play moredeeply, more independently it
(30:19):
all flourishes in a simpleenvironment.
There's research that showsthat.
There is a study I love out ofGermany where the researchers
removed all the toys from akindergarten room and they
watched to see what the kidswould do.
And at first day one the kidsdidn't really know what to do.
They were just kind of walkingaround aimlessly.
They weren't sure what to do.
(30:39):
But by day two they wereplaying so creatively with the
desks, with the chairs, withwhatever was in the room in
their own imaginative worlds.
And the researchers didconclude this that the kids
played more deeply, morecreatively in a simple
environment.
And so I think, when we canreally understand that we're
(30:59):
doing our kids a huge favor whenwe simplify their environments,
it can help us bring thatculture into our family.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So so good.
Yes, and and that makes methink, okay, what about grandma,
who had all this stuff andshopped all the time?
And it's kid's birthday time,it's, it's Christmas, it's every
holiday where they want toshower them with all this stuff?
So I'm sure you've helpedpeople with this issue, or maybe
(31:27):
even dealt with it yourself.
How do you set boundaries withyour family so that, when it
comes time for birthdays andgift giving, that you're not
getting bombed on with all thisstuff that you're going to turn
around and politely give away?
I mean, how do you handle that?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, that's real and people.
Grandma gives things becauseshe wants to show love.
Giving a gift is simply anexpression of love, and so what
I found is helpful is you canreceive that love.
You can receive that gift andafter you've received it, it's
completely yours to decide whatyou want to do with it.
Then you can decide to give itaway, keep it if it's being
(32:05):
played with, but if you'rewanting to even limit the amount
of stuff that's coming intoyour environment, you can talk
to talk to grandma, talk to theperson who wants to give the
gifts, and you can tell themspecifically what you want them
to get your children.
It doesn't have to be stuff.
It could be an experience, thezoo pass, it could be something
consumable bath bombs or a bighit at our house with four girls
(32:27):
, and so you can still let themgive things if that's what they
love to do, but it doesn't haveto be the latest gadget or
noise-making toy that you'rejust going to find.
That's driving you crazy.
And then you're going to donateit, and they probably would
like to be a more intentionalshopper for your family, so that
their money is going towardwhat will be used and
(32:50):
appreciated too.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yes, I always love that when people say you know
what would be a good gift to getfor your child, and I don't
think that, oh, they're notputting any time and effort into
this gift and they just want aquick, like Amazon idea.
You know, I really do thinkthey're going.
You know, I feel like givingyour child something, but I
(33:12):
don't just want to give themanything.
Like I, I want this to bepurposeful and meaningful, and
so you know your kids best.
So what is that?
So I think we could do thatourselves right when we're
shopping for people as well asas thinking about the family,
and if, if they are trying todeclutter and live a more simple
life, then maybe an experienceor an invitation to go to the
(33:35):
water park and buy their ticketin and have a fun memory would
be better than buying them allthe stuff that they could use at
the pool.
It's going to get lost.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Absolutely.
I have a good friend who knowsI live a minimalist lifestyle
that our family does, and so wethrew a birthday party last
summer for my son, when heturned four.
She texted me right away okay,what does he want?
And my son loves clothes.
So I said he loves clothes, buyhim some clothes.
So she had this t-shirt madewith his name on it.
It has like a baseball bat anda soccer ball and he loved it.
(34:09):
It was his favorite gift ofanything he got, wore it every
single day, had his name on it.
It was clothes, this blue shirt.
So I think that it does help toask you know, what do they like
?
And then you can get somethingthat they really do love instead
of just something they pitchyeah.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yes, oh, this is so, so good.
So when you started downsizing,it sounded like you started
with your child's room.
You went through and did itlike did the major decluttering
first and the things you knewshe didn't like, and then
allowed her to kind of pickthrough things when you move to
a smaller home, because this isa big time right, this is like
(34:49):
not just staying in the placeyou're in and decluttering, but
it's like picking up and movingin and downsizing.
What kind of fears did you have?
You know making that move?
Was it and was it your idea?
Was your husband on board?
Were you both like gung-hoabout this thing?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, I think I probably planted the seed first
and he did get on board with itbecause it made sense.
It just made sense.
We were finding so much freedomin this lifestyle.
We're like why don't we go evendeeper in it and just see what
it's like?
And it was great.
By that time, when we moved, Ididn't have a lot of
reservations about getting ridof much more.
(35:28):
It makes me think that theaverage home now has 300,000
possessions in it, over 300,000items in it, the average home
and we only use 20% of our stuff.
So I really, when we moved, Iwas like well, we only use 20%
of our stuff, let's just bringthe 20%.
And so that was a really,really efficient way for me just
(35:49):
to realize is this something Iuse and love every day?
No, okay, you're not going tocome with me and I'm not going
to miss you, and I didn't.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh my goodness, 300,000,.
Julia, it's a ton.
This is insane.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like that is crazy.
And I'm looking around just mylittle office here in the
podcast studio thinking, yep, Ican see how it could get up to
300,000.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
We live in a culture now.
Yeah, our culture now has morepossessions, more stuff, than
any culture in the history ofthe world.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
So, yes, it's amazing , like you said, oh wild, and
just that we hold on to thingsthat we don't need or use or
have multiple things.
I have three printers.
Okay, why am I so afraid thatone of them is going to break
down that I need two backups?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
right?
No, I don't even own a printer.
I probably do need to buy aprinter eventually, cause I'm
texting my parents.
I'm like, can you print thisfor us?
Or running, you know, to a shopthat has a coffee shop that has
a printer in it, like, okay,this would be a valid purchase
coffee shop that has a printerin it Like okay, this would be a
valid purchase, Okay, so onceyou go to the other side, then
you have to kind of reallydiscern is this something we
(36:56):
really do need, or can we getaway with not having it?
And honestly, Jordan, I thinkthat's how you find out how to
live with enough.
I think you have to experimenton the side of too little,
because all of us know well,most of us in this day and age
know what it's like to live withtoo much stuff, but we don't
know what it's like to live withtoo little.
And so when we declutter, wecan think about being ruthless,
going even deeper than you thinkyou need to see.
See what you can live without.
(37:16):
And you don't have to let go ofit right away.
You can box it up in a cornerof your basement storage.
Go three months, see what it'slike living without it, See if
you actually needed it or not.
Go, pull it back if you do,because that's how we find how
to live with enough.
That's how we find when we'redone decluttering.
It's when we reach that levelwhere we've added a little bit
more back in and that's feelinggood to us.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yes, I love that tip.
I read that on your websiteabout the spatula.
Could you actually live withjust one spatula?
Well, try it for a month.
get rid of all your other youknow cooking utensils or all the
seven spatulas, and just putthe one in there and if you can
make it for a month, then guesswhat you can donate the rest of
those.
And that again is practicaladvice of how to start small and
(38:03):
to kind of test it out and giveyourself permission to get into
this way of thinking and livingand decluttering in a very safe
, non-threatening, likenon-scary way.
So good.
So I imagine your book, whichshould be on my doorstep anytime
since I pre-ordered it andtoday's like launch day, but I
(38:26):
imagine it's going to show upsoon.
But tell us a little bit about,like, who is this book for?
Would you say it's forabsolutely anyone.
Is there a particular you knowperson you were thinking of
besides mom?
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, it's written.
It's written for moms, that'sthe main take on it, but I would
say it's for anyone who wantsto live a lighter life with less
stuff.
Whether you're an empty nesterand you're looking to downsize,
you're still a mom maybe not inthe toys aren't everywhere
anymore, but you're still.
You're still decluttering yourhome, You're looking to downsize
(39:02):
.
So it's got tools throughoutfor anyone, any woman who wants
to declutter their hearts andtheir homes.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I love it.
Okay, well, I'm super excitedand it is going to be linked in
the show notes so that you canjust click right below the
episode here that you'rewatching or listening to and
grab a copy of the book.
Do you do any coaching withwomen when it comes to
decluttering their heart andtheir home?
(39:31):
Do you have workshops or otherresources available for women?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I do Yep, I'm an online educator, I have courses,
so you can find those coursesat my website, at my blog,
richinwhatmatterscom.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Awesome.
Have you ever heard of and I'masking because I'm thinking I've
got to get an accountabilitybuddy have you ever heard of and
I'm asking because I'm thinkingI've got to get an
accountability buddy?
Have you ever heard of a fewwomen like taking your workshop
together or watching the onlinevideos together and then like
doing this as buddies, likeaccountability partner?
Okay, here's where we're goingto start, ladies.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
That would be a really powerful way to do it.
I think, yeah, you couldtotally do that.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yes, there's such strength in numbers of knowing
that there's other people thatare like getting on board with
this too, and that you couldhave a little community of
people that are, you know,working towards a common goal.
We talk about that a lot atFamilies of Character is like if
I have a goal as a mom, to makemy bed every day, but I don't
share that with my child and I'mdepriving them of the freedom
(40:27):
that I experience when I makethe right choice right away,
when I get up in the morning todeny myself something I'd rather
do, and do something that isgood for me and is healthy for
me.
And so I like the idea of alittle community of moms that
are like we're going to livesimpler lives, we're going to
live with less and we're goingto, you know, encourage our kids
(40:50):
and live a more simplelifestyle with our entire family
, so that we can all make spacein our hearts, in our homes, for
the number one thing thatmatters.
And that is God to do his workin us and for us to have that
space to shine the light that hewants us to go out in our
(41:11):
communities, in ourneighborhoods and in our
workplaces and in our homes toreally shine.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yes, absolutely, I love that.
I think that we weren'tdesigned to live way down by
clutter.
When we do free that space inour homes, in our souls, we do
have more space to shine in theareas that he's put us in in our
lives, around the people whohe's planted near us for a
reason.
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yes, so good.
Well, are you on any of thesocial media channels?
Can people follow you there?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, I'm on Instagram.
Yep, we have a fun Instagramcommunity at rich and what
matters.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Wonderful.
Okay, check that out, guys.
Not because you're trying toclutter your mind and do more
things, but because we need away to connect to people who we
resonate with, who are offering,you know, free tools to help us
get started, who have resourceslike a book and courses that we
can take Again, not to ask youto do one more thing, but to ask
(42:13):
you to do something that willmake a ripple effect in your
life for the good and for thegood of your family.
So, julia, I'm hoping toreconnect with you in like six
months and be able to tell youthe progression of my
decluttering and what I've donefrom the time of this recording
(42:34):
until, like you know, six monthslater, because this is my jam,
like I think I've been needingthis message personally for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, I would love to reconnect with you and hear how
it's going.
I love hearing people's stories.
I get DMs all the time onInstagram saying you know, I
just decluttered this and I feelso good and I'm like keep going
, make it happen.
So I love encouraging peopleand hearing their stories
because I know what a changeit's made in my life and so I
know that it can in the lives ofothers too.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yes, this is wonderful.
Okay, you guys, check out Juliaat richinwhatmatterscom and buy
a copy of her book.
You've got the link.
It's gone out in our Tuesdayemail newsletter so you can find
it there too, but it's calledDeclutter your Heart and your
(43:26):
Home.
Grab a copy of it now and let'sfocus on what truly matters.
Julia, thank you for being onour show.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Thanks so much, jordan, it was a fun
conversation.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Guys, I will catch up with you on another episode
real soon.
Please do us a favor.
Share this with your spouse forsure, to get them listening and
on board with this idea ofliving with less, and also share
it with friends in your circles.
Text it out to people.
Send our Tuesday email along toothers who might not be getting
(43:57):
our weekly newsletter, so thatothers may hear the message and
we can spread the message farand wide.
Thanks so much for joining usand I'll catch you real soon.
Take care.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!