June 3, 2025 • 59 mins
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The mother-daughter-in-law relationship stands as one of family life's most complex dynamics, often fraught with unspoken expectations, misunderstandings, and deep emotional triggers. In this revealing conversation, master coach Janet Quinlan pulls back the curtain on why these relationships become strained and offers transformative strategies to move from tension to genuine connection.
We discuss:
• Healthy mother-daughter-in-law relationships involve recognizing you're building a new relationship that takes time to develop
• "Empathetic curiosity"
• Setting boundaries from a place of love
• Emotional independence
• Reframing negative thoughts
• Prayer for your in-law is a powerful practice that softens resentment and opens your heart
Be sure to check out Janet's course, The Mother/Daughter-in-Law Dynamic. For more resources, visit JanetQuinlan.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
Families of Character listeners.
I'm Jordan Langdon, your host,and today oh yes, today we are
diving into one of the mostdelicate, emotional and
sometimes downright trickyrelationships in family life.
That's right the mother anddaughter-in-law relationship.
(00:21):
Now listen, before you clutchyour pearls or start having
flashbacks at the most recentfamily get-together, just hang
with me, okay, because we'reabout to bring in some serious
wisdom.
Our guest today is no strangerto the Families of Character
show.
(00:41):
Janet Quinlan, master coach,speaker and host of the Finding
Joy in Marriage and Motherhoodpodcast, is back with us Now.
You might remember Janet fromepisode 135, where she shared 10
lessons learned about marriage.
Let me tell you that episodequickly became one of our most
(01:05):
downloaded episodes of 2025.
She has a real gift for justcutting through the noise and
speaking straight to the heartwith truth and grace and
practical tools you can actuallyuse.
So today, janet and I arepulling back the curtain on the
(01:25):
most common struggles betweenmothers and daughters-in-law.
So we're going to cover thingslike comparison control, unmet
expectations, poor communication, boundary blunders and what
happens when a husband and wifearen't on the same page with
(01:45):
family dynamics.
I know, yikes, we can allrelate to that on some level,
I'm sure.
But here's the good news Janetis going to teach us about
emotional independence, and thisis an absolute game changer
skill that really can turn thisrelationship from strained and
stressed to peaceful and thendeeply rewarding.
(02:09):
So we're going to talk abouthow to let go of heavy
expectations, how to setthoughtful, respectful
boundaries and how to trulyfoster understanding, patience
and connection over time.
So, whether you're amother-in-law, a daughter-in-law
, or you're just someonelistening who wants better
(02:30):
relationships, you're going towant to stay with us until the
end, because Janet shares somereally powerful strategies that
could change not just yourrelationship but the entire
atmosphere of your family life.
So let's get started.
Welcome back to our show, janetQuinlan.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm glad to be back.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Oh, this is wonderful , janet.
I know a lot of women listeningtoday are wondering like what
does a healthy, peacefulrelationship between a
mother-in-law anddaughter-in-law even look like
right?
Can you paint us a picture ofthat?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, and unfortunately I think it's in
the minority rather than themajority.
Most of the women that I coach,whether they're older women
like me with daughters-in-law,or younger women with
mothers-in-law they're allstruggling.
So I think this is a greattopic.
What does a good relationshiplook like?
(03:34):
Well, first we have to get toknow each other, and sometimes
we forget that part of it.
When we're a daughter-in-lawcoming into the relationship, we
think, well, he's in love withus, so she will naturally love
us.
When we're the mother-in-law andour son is bringing a daughter
(03:56):
into this family, we often think, well, I'd like to love her, I
hope to love her, but maybe wefeel a little nervous about it,
and a lot of that is because wehave had a relationship with our
son for, you know, at least youknow probably 22 years, maybe
(04:17):
even longer, a little bitshorter sometimes and there's a
rhythm to that relationship.
And so a good relationship withyour daughter-in-law is where
you welcome her in and she feelslike a daughter.
But we also want to be carefulthat we don't try to usurp the
mother's role in her life,because we're not her mother.
(04:39):
We want to treat her like adaughter and the daughter-in-law
will treat the mother-in-law,you know, like a mother as best
she can.
But there's this bond betweenour own mother that we often
feel a little nervous aboutbreaking in a sense, not even
completely, but just evenstressing.
So, adding to that a goodrelationship is where both know
(05:03):
boundaries, they know where theycan step in and where they need
to stay out.
We're thoughtful about eachother's needs.
So, as a daughter-in-law, I amthoughtful that, you know,
probably my husband had a veryclose or just even a
relationship with his mom.
Even if it wasn't close, it wasa specific relationship and
(05:23):
they both kind it was a specificrelationship and they both kind
of depend on that relationship.
And, as the mother-in-law,recognizing that he has a new
woman in his life and it'sawfully difficult when two women
love the same man, even thoughit's different ways.
You know, love is a very strongemotion and so just recognizing
(05:47):
that she is a part of his lifeand that we'd be very careful
that we don't take thingspersonally.
Very often, you know, especiallyin the beginning, we're just
trying to figure each other out.
It takes a long time to get toknow someone and I think we
automatically think that weshould just get along and be
(06:09):
best friends, but that takes along time.
So recognizing that that takestime.
And then I think the ultimatething is probably the most
difficult thing, and that isthat we have unconditional love
for each other is that we haveunconditional love for each
other, that we recognize theother as a child of God, that we
(06:36):
recognize that the other is insome way important to that man
in the middle I call him the manin the middle and that we just
really honor that and not try tostep over that boundary and not
try to step over that boundary.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yes, so many things are coming to mind as you talk
about what a healthyrelationship looks like between
a mother-in-law and adaughter-in-law, and one of the
things that stood out is the manin the middle.
If you are listening and youhave a mother-in-law, you're
thinking, yeah, my husband,that's him.
He often says, like this isreally tough.
I feel caught between a rockand a hard spot.
(07:11):
I don't know if I'm the rock orthe hard spot, but they do have
this really difficult role ofkind of maybe managing
communication between their momand their wife and and just um,
just the way you described thatman in the middle, I think that
really resonates with me in theway of having compassion and
(07:33):
empathy for our spouse too andhelping to use that uh, man in
the middle kind of um idea tohave compassion on my husband's
mom, right, and remember thathe's caught.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Right and I think for all the men who are listening,
they have to remember that.
You know they leave theirmother and father right and they
cleave to their spouse and sowhile a man has probably the
(08:10):
woman in his life that he'spleased the most has been his
mom, probably for all thoseyears, when you get married you
still honor your mother, youstill love her, but she is not
the first priority anymore.
The wife is the first priority.
And you know, differentrelationships kind of manifest,
(08:35):
getting to know each otherdifferently.
For some and I think I've heardmarriage counselors say this,
if you have a problem with yourmother-in-law, have your husband
talk to her.
Maybe that works.
What I find that is thatactually puts him more in the
middle and it almost eliminatesa little bit more intimacy in
(08:59):
relationship with ourmother-in-law or our
daughter-in-law and you know,just getting comfortable with
communicating our needs with her, whether she's the
daughter-in-law or theirmother-in-law, just going right
to her.
Because then I think we takeaway, you know, this idea of who
(09:22):
do you belong to.
We just are forming a newrelationship.
And when you form a newrelationship, trust is one of
the most important things in therelationship and if, if we're
not communicating directly andinstead putting the man there in
the center, then we're nevergoing to really, you know, form
(09:45):
that trust, that bond.
Sometimes it might go wrong,but sometimes it might go right
and we just have to, you know,really pray for her and then
also move towards her, ratherthan putting him, like in that
center of things.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That makes a lot of sense to me.
In counseling we call thattriangulation, right when you
introduce a third person thatreally doesn't need to be in the
mix and it causes a lot offriction between the two people
that need to be communicating.
So I like your advice of goingstraight to your mother-in-law
or your daughter-in-law andhaving a gentle conversation.
(10:23):
I'm sure you'll talk to us inthis episode about how to go
about that, with some filters inmind and some compassion, so
that you know defenses aren't upand you don't start off on the
wrong foot and kind of eeks, youknow, uh-oh, that blew up.
You know you also haveexperienced yourself with your
(10:45):
own mother-in-law um, back whenyou first got married, right?
So can you tell us a little bitabout your experience with your
mother-in-law?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, she didn't like me at all from the beginning
Now.
So this is almost 41 years agoOkay, it actually is 41 years
ago when we started dating Umand I didn't have the maturity,
uh, as a young woman, toappreciate what Michael and I
(11:15):
were sort of putting her through, in a sense.
Um, we met in October and eightweeks later we were engaged, um
, and he was calling her up andtelling her that he was marrying
this girl and um, she was veryclose to Michael of all, he's
one of five but his fatherpassed away when he was a senior
(11:39):
in high school and um, shereally relied on him and
depended on him, and so I thinkthat and I really do believe
this now that no woman wouldhave been okay for her, but,
instead of seeing it that way,that she just had this, it was
(12:00):
hard for her to let go ofMichael.
Um, I made it mean somethingabout me, right?
She didn't like me.
She, you know, was critical ofme what's the matter with me?
And and I tried harder andharder, and the harder I tried,
um, the more disappointed I was,because she really didn't want
a relationship with me.
She just didn't.
Um, and a couple of years intoour marriage, michael, I was
(12:28):
crying about it, as I frequentlydid, and Michael said you know,
she's doing the best she can,and of course that made me
angrier because I thought thiscan't possibly be the best that
she can do.
Right, she doesn't speak to meor she's critical of me and um,
(12:51):
but he was really correct and Ithink that this is a phrase that
, if we can apply almost toeverybody, but especially to
those around us that we want tolove or that are closest to us,
they are doing the best thatthey can, and sometimes that
best doesn't look like we thinkour best would look.
(13:14):
But actually here I was notdoing my best, because I was
being critical of her, becauseshe was critical of me, and you
know all of that.
So when he said that, it reallyput a different perspective on
things for me.
She had a very tough life, alife that I didn't have, and you
know we read in the gospel that, you know, for those who have
(13:36):
been given, more will be, youknow, required or asked.
And really that's what God wasasking of me was I was given a
lot of stable relationships inmy life and she wasn't, and so
he was asking me to be patientand kind, you know, and loving
with her, when maybe shecouldn't be that with me.
(13:56):
So, um, I really remember inthe beginning of our marriage
saying, uh, when I havedaughters-in-law and, by the way
, I have three now and twosons-in-law, I will make sure to
remember this Number onethey're doing the best they can.
(14:17):
And then also all the thingsthat I kind of was critical of,
I won't do so.
It was very helpful in a way.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yes, well, just having that lens and accepting
that you know truth from yourhusband, I think is a beautiful
way to get started in marriageis just to say remind ourselves
that this woman is doing thebest she has with the resources
that she has access to.
And in your case, wow, you know, eight weeks she kind of knew
(14:50):
of you and then all of a suddenyou're going to be the love of
his life and she's going, he'sgoing to leave me and cleave to
her and I don't even quite knowthis woman, you know.
So having some understandingand compassion definitely
changes that filter with whichwe kind of put their words and
(15:11):
their behavior through and candefinitely help.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, there's a term in coaching that we call
empathetic curiosity, and thatis when we look at someone with
empathy for who they are andwhat they're going through, but
we're curious about, okay, whydo they act the way they're
acting?
Um, rather than judgment andyou know, kind of being closed
(15:40):
off.
And so if, if women can look ateach other, what side of the
man they're on, and haveempathetic curiosity for the
other woman, I think that a lotof problems in the in-law
relationship will be resolved,because we won't make things
(16:02):
mean something to us that theydon't necessarily mean.
Yeah, so I just think thatthat's important to look at the
other person with eyes ofempathy and curiosity.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I love that.
Just a spirit of like, where isthis coming from for them,
versus why is this, why is sheattacking me or, you know,
making it personal to us.
I think that's a very commonmistake in this dynamic between
a mother-in-law anddaughter-in-law is oh this is
(16:41):
offensive, this is she meant tohurt me.
You know she's out to just getme Right.
We do what I call MSUN we makestuff up or making stuff up, and
that always goes poorly when weassign meaning to somebody's
(17:02):
words that are personallyoffensive to us.
And so I like the spirit ofcuriosity and even asking for
clarification.
The way you said that reallykind of hurt my feelings.
Can you tell me what you meantby that?
Because I'm over here in myhead kind of making things up
and I'm probably way overdoingit.
(17:23):
But would you mind explainingwhat you really meant by that?
I think that can be a healthyway to avoid that making stuff
up and get back to what youtalked about, the empathetic
curiosity.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, and I also think that it helps us.
I mean, I think you have tohave a lot of courage to do that
, but this is hopefully a longgame, right?
You get married.
You're just married for life,and so if we start just like
tucking resentments under therug and we just don't really,
(17:58):
you know, get clarity, um, thenit just builds and builds, and
builds, um, and I think you know, one of the things that we both
struggle with is and I know Ifor sure did was, um, having
certain expectations of what mymother-in-law would look like
and and, or what mydaughters-in-law would look like
(18:21):
, and so my threedaughters-in-law couldn't be
more different than I am.
I'm like, wait a minute, what?
Right?
And I'm very, very close to allmy children.
So it's not because, you know,their husbands didn't love me or
anything.
I mean, we have very closerelationships, but I can see how
each of those women is perfectfor that son.
(18:45):
They, uh, god, knew exactlywhat they needed.
And, um, our, I think ourinitial response is oh, why did
he pick her?
And that's a wrong pick, that'sa bad pick because they're not
like us, but God knows what he'sdoing.
And they're lovely, and we're10, 11 years now into one of the
(19:09):
relationships and then about 11, 10 and three, and I can really
see how those women arechallenging my sons to be the
best that they can be and lovingthem in ways that they need to
be loved and balancing them inways.
So we really have to be carefulabout expectations.
So I had expectations of amother-in-law.
(19:30):
You know that we would lunchtogether when we saw each other
and we would just sit and chatand we'd have the same things in
common, um, very similar to mymom with her daughter's-in-law,
um, and that just wasn't mymother-in-law.
She was, she was a she's passed, but, um, she was kind of cold,
(19:52):
very new England type, not atall interested in feelings, and
I was an education major.
I was all about feelings, yes,you know, and we really had
nothing in common and you knowsilly things like and I'm just
going to say this because I justthought of it, so maybe it's
something that someone else willbe okay with.
(20:14):
So, like the very firstChristmas that we met, she
bought me a size smaller than Iwore and it was a small.
I'm like I didn't even wear asmall when I was a junior in
high school.
Oh, no, yeah, so you know, butit's so dumb I made it mean oh,
she thinks I'm fat and I was.
I mean it was not fat.
(20:35):
And so we have to just notapply all kinds of emotions and
stories to what they do or say.
We have to be really carefulabout that.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Oh, yes, and I can only imagine that.
Just like, how do I respond tothe size Small?
Thank you kind of with thissneer Well that's what Michael
said.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
He's like why don't you compliment?
And I'm like, come on, really.
So anyway, yeah, but you knowwe grow up.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
But these are real experiencesthat you have, or the way that
someone looks at you, you know,at the dinner table, when you're
all at a holiday gathering andyou just make something, mean
something about that.
And so, yeah, expectations area thing, right when you say I
want it to be like this, andthen the reality is different.
(21:30):
That's just really hard toreconcile inside the difference
between what you want and what'shappening.
And so I think we have toconstantly be turning this sort
of dial of expectations back toremember she's doing the best
she can with the resources she'sgot and the background that she
brings to this relationship.
(21:51):
And so I'm going to try to kindof neutralize the expectation
and receive, you know,charitably, whatever she's
capable of giving me.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, and I want to dive deeper just for a minute on
that because, um, you know, wejust finished with um, went
through the holiday seasons andthere's a huge expectations
about what happens in theholidays and, um, as a
mother-in-law, I want toencourage all mothers-in-law
(22:24):
that their children, whetherit's their daughter or their
sons, um, as adults, they get todecide what they want to do.
I really, I think that we havethis big problem where there is
this expectation that you keepcoming around to the mother's
house, that you show up atChristmas, that you show up at
(22:47):
Easter, that you're always there, you bring your wife, you bring
your kids, but you better bethere and I, I, I personally
think that that creates so muchdivision in a family, um, that
you know, the one day they haveto be there, one day to prove
that they love you.
I mean, first of all, you'vegot all year to show that you
(23:09):
love each other and, second ofall, what if you had your family
celebration on a different day?
Because, don't forget, as wetalked about, as the husband
leaves, you know, both of themleave their family of origin to
create a new family that haspriority.
They get to decide how theywant to celebrate those big
occasions in their family life.
(23:32):
I was talking to a client ohgosh, a couple of years ago and
it happened to be afterChristmas, and I said how was
your Christmas?
And she said well, I heard yourpodcast about traditions.
And she said you know what ourtradition is?
On Christmas day, we're in thecar, driving from place to place
.
She said the kids are tired,they're crabby and we never get
what we want as a family and Ithought that is a real pity.
(23:55):
That's awful.
So I'm going to offer this toto mothers-in-law.
Here's what we do for Christmasanyway.
We haven't gotten to a placewith Easter or Thanksgiving, but
for Christmas we don'tcelebrate Christmas.
I mean, we do celebrateChristmas on Christmas day, but
not the whole family.
So if you're single, if one ofmy kids are single, they're
(24:16):
coming over.
You know, michael and I willhave a meal with them, my mom.
But if you're married, I tellthem you do what you want to do
for Christmas.
So two things one, they get todecide.
And two, if they have amother-in-law who's not you know
.
So, um, I don't know if you wantto say gracious, but who
(24:37):
demands that they be at herhouse, they can decide if they
want to do that and they don'thave to choose.
But for me and for our family,we always celebrate Christmas on
Feast of the Holy Family, whichis just the next Sunday, and so
everybody comes over and that'swhen we celebrate our Christmas
.
And I really think that we haveto think outside the box on how
we do major family celebrations, so that there isn't a choice
(25:01):
that has to be made.
Feelings aren't hurt.
We just get proactive indeciding how can we do this so
you get to start your littlefamily and have your traditions
and we still get to see eachother at, you know, a really
great holiday time.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So I think that's Thank you for sharing that from
your perspective too of being amother-in-law and having grown
children with their own families.
I think that's great advice.
I was just talking to a womancoming out of church the other
day and she was talking abouther most recent holiday.
She was so excited.
All of my kids and all of theirkids came back and I said, oh,
(25:40):
my goodness, what a gift that isto you.
I said I know what it takes toschlep your kids around you know
five hours in the car orwhatever, and that's a lot you
know and bringing all your stuffand gifts and things.
And she said I hope it neverends.
Never, I hope it never ends.
And there was this clutching ofyou know I could tell that this
(26:02):
was something so important toher.
But I like what you said.
Like you know, let your childdecide what they want to do.
Maybe some of your kids decidethat is worth it for them to
make the trip and come and bringall the kids.
But to give permission to yourdaughter-in-law and your son is
such a beautiful thing becauseit is a lot you know, and I
(26:27):
think you know there's sort of aspeaking out of both sides of
our mouth if we believe, as amother-in-law, that it is
important for our children, youknow, biblically based to leave
their father and mother andcleave to their bride.
But then we're saying, but notin this instance.
(26:47):
Yes, right, not on Christmasday, right, I reign here and you
need to do, you know,prioritize me or us over your
spouse.
It's like, oh, but I thought wewere supposed to leave and
cleave, you know, and now I'mmixing that up.
So thank you for giving thatadvice.
I think that's permission is ahuge thing that we seek as
daughters-in-law, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Mm-hmm yeah.
So much Another thing that yeah,I think this kind of goes along
with it are boundaries.
You know, when we haveexpectations, we sometimes lose
the boundary.
And so what does that mean?
It means that you know if amother-in-law just wants to see
(27:32):
the kids, and she just pops overand knocks on the door and
opens the door, and you know, wejust have to recognize that we
are separate, families separate.
We're connected still, butseparate in the way we live our
lives.
And that's probably the biggestthing that many of the
(27:54):
daughters-in-law you knowexpress frustration about is
that the mother-in-law hasthere's no boundaries.
You know she wants to be in thedelivery room.
She wants to be.
Yeah, I know, it's a thing now.
I'm like I didn't even want tobe in delivery I know, my
husband didn't want to be Right,but it's a thing now.
Didn't want to be here, right,but it's a thing now.
(28:19):
Um, and you know many will comeover and you know, um, maybe
start cleaning up or whateverwithout permission, right, um,
or just show up withoutpermission.
And so what does it mean tocreate a boundary?
Well, first of all, we have toget to a place where we
recognize that we're doing itfrom a sense of calm and love,
to enhance the relationship, notto punish her.
(28:42):
That's really important.
And then we communicate itclearly.
So, for instance, if you knowthe mother-in-law shows up and
rings the bell and you feel likeI can't just turn her away, um,
you can when you say to herhere's the thing, when I'm home
with the kids, um, I'm reallynot ready for visitors.
(29:05):
So if you would like to come,just call me or text me, ask,
and I'll let you know if it'savailable.
But if you come to the doorwithout having asked or, you
know, texted or whatever, Iwon't answer the door.
It's just the boundary that I'mgoing to create.
I love you, I want you to seethe kids, but I also have a life
(29:28):
and I have a schedule and Iwant to make sure that you know
we're doing the things that weneed to do for our family, but
also we want you to know that wewant you to see the kids.
We just need some advancedwarning.
So that would be a boundary, asopposed to and I've heard this
from some mothers-in-law abouttheir daughter-in-law who just
(29:50):
say you know, we're not going tosee you again, it's just not
happening.
There's no understanding as towhy.
What did I do wrong?
You know where has this gone?
That's not a boundary, that's apunishment.
That's right.
Yeah, so we want to be reallyclear with boundaries and I
think to the men, they have tofacilitate that boundary.
(30:11):
They have to for their wives,they have to really get on the
same page, always on the samepage, with dealing with both of
the mothers you know, her mother, his mother and then, for his
mom, helping her understand whyhis wife has created the
(30:34):
boundary and if it's a boundary,that's really not fair.
Then have a conversation withhis wife and say okay, why are
we doing this?
Is there a different way thatwe can, you know, facilitate the
end without the punishmentaspect of it?
Um, and that's, that's justsomething that you have to work
through the boundaries arereally important.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
They are.
I want to underscore thatBoundaries are really important
and when you were giving theexample of the mother-in-law
showing up at the door and justbeing very specific about okay,
this is an issue of you showingup without advance notice.
I love you and this is just anincident.
This isn't an overall judgmentof you as a person, but here's
(31:24):
exactly what I'm asking forbeing specific about that is so
crucial to this dynamic because,like you said, you could blow
it up and just say in know, inmy mind, using that kind of all
or nothing thinking where you'resaying she always shows up
without you know, advancedwarning.
I'm sick of this, we're notseeing her again.
(31:45):
Instead, just addressing thingsas they come up in the moment,
being specific and sticking tothe facts that example you gave
was very clear.
Let your stick into the factshere.
Example you gave was very clearthat you're sticking to the
facts.
Here's what just happened.
Here's what I would like foryou to do.
I love you and let's see if wecan make this work next time.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Another place where I think alot of people overstep
boundaries are gift giving.
So at Christmas time, lots ofmothers-in-law love to just pour
their love through gift giving,but a lot of daughters-in-law,
especially in this age ofminimalism, they don't want all
the stuff.
(32:25):
And so if your daughter-in-lawsays to you one gift please,
there's probably nothing morethat you can do to show your
daughter-in-law that you loveher than give one gift that
shows that you respect her, yourespect her judgment, you
respect who she is as a mother.
And then also for thedaughters-in-law if you still
(32:47):
get 10 gifts, you should feelthe freedom to say to the kids
what do you want, and the restwill give to charity.
You don't have the obligationto keep what.
You know.
If someone has gone past theboundary, you don't have the
obligation to keep it.
So that's you know that's a bigthing is the amount of gifts
(33:11):
that people give.
So you know, I think that wehave to remember that as women
we have different you know, wecall them love languages, right
Different ways that we show love.
We're just differentpersonalities.
Like I mentioned about mydaughters-in-law, never occurred
(33:31):
to me that my sons would choosethe daughters that they chose.
I thought they would chooselike me.
And so we have to kind of keepreminding ourselves of that,
that she's different and that'sokay.
She, you know, if she doessomething that we would be like,
what the heck?
We just have to be like, well,that's who she is, that's okay,
(33:52):
she's different.
But when we go into that, youknow that, um, like rabbit hole
of, oh my gosh, I can't believeshe did that and what is she
thinking, and you know what isshe trying to prove and what is
she saying about me.
It's like that.
You know that spiral thinkingthat never goes well because it
(34:13):
creates those feelings, whetherthey're anger or disappointment
or frustration or whatever.
They're always negativefeelings.
And then when we have thosenegative feelings, we show up in
ways that we don't really wantto show up.
And so and I think that thatprobably is maybe the biggest
message I would like to offer topeople is, ask yourself who do
(34:38):
you want to be in thisrelationship, no matter what she
does, whether it's themother-in-law or daughter-in-law
, who do you want to be in thisrelationship?
And you know, maybe even writedown I want to be patient, I
want to be understanding, I wantto have clear boundaries.
I mean, it doesn't mean thatyou have to be the doormat, but
(35:05):
who is God calling you to be asa woman to this other woman and
then kind of keep going back tothat?
What do you want to think abouther?
And when a negative thoughtcomes up, how can you change it?
So it's a thought that ispositive that you can still
believe.
When she gives 10 gifts and youknow you told her one gift, you
know a million times yourthought could be she disrespects
(35:28):
me because she keeps giving 10gifts, right, right.
But what if you change that?
What if you reframe that to?
That's her love language.
That's how she shows her love.
It's okay, I don't have to keepit.
I don't have to get angry aboutit.
It's just who she is.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Oh that, just right at the beginning, when you said,
oh, she's giving 10 gifts here.
She's doing this again.
I've told her a million times.
I kind of felt this tensioninside, like yeah, yeah.
And then when you said, youknow, this is who she is, this
is how she expresses love, thisis one of her love languages,
like gift giving is a thing thatbrings her joy, well then I can
(36:04):
say okay, and I also have thechoice of you know, sifting
through these with my kids andsaying, okay, which one are we
going to keep and which onecould we bless other people with
, because we're not bringing allthese into the home.
But that's such a difference.
The reframe makes such adifference because, man, if you
stick with that first train ofthought, we are not doing gifts.
(36:27):
You know Christmas with yourmother again, I can hear that
you know happening and justgoing down this whole, like
let's just cut off thisrelationship, it's too much to
deal with versus that empatheticcuriosity oh yeah, she is a
gift giver, this is what bringsher joy, and instead of cutting
her off from that, we're justgoing to do with these gifts
(36:50):
what we want once we get backhome and it'll be okay.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, it will be okay.
The world will not come to anend, you'll just figure it out.
You may even pack up nine ofthem and put them away, and in
the middle of the summer, whenthe kids are making you crazy,
you pull out one of those giftsif you want you know, God bless
grandma.
Yeah, right, right.
And then going back to that manin the middle, I think there's
another point that I wanted tojust bring up that as his wife,
(37:19):
we have to be very sensitive tothe place that he is in.
That means that we don'tcomplain to him all the time
about her.
We don't, you know, get angrywith him maybe for not, you know
, stepping up.
I mean, there was an episodethat his mother, michael's
(37:39):
mother, spoke to me reallypoorly and said some really
harsh things and this is thevery beginning of our
relationship and marriage andMichael didn't say anything.
I was so angry, I felt betrayedby my husband.
But what we have to remember ishe's learning too.
He's learning a very difficulttask of keeping two women happy,
(38:03):
two probably very differentwomen, and we have to have
empathy for him.
Now that doesn't mean that, youknow, we don't.
We don't bring up, you know,maybe, big issues and say, how
can we resolve this, like thetwo of us, um.
But we don't say, okay, yep,your mom did it again.
As you get in the car, leavingher house, you know she's off,
(38:26):
you know, um.
And on the flip side, you know,as a mother-in-law, we don't
call him up, we don't call herson up and say what on earth is
wrong with your wife, you up.
We don't call her son up andsay what on earth is wrong with
your wife.
You know she can't control thekids.
They're always crying, you know.
Whatever it is, um, that's he's.
He's not the place for that.
It's unfair to him actually.
(38:48):
And so that's where we get backinto the reframing, rather than
just like making him thepunching bag, you know, and just
vomiting all of our unhappinessor our anger or disappointment
or unmet expectations on him.
That's not his problem.
We have to figure out how toreframe so that we're at peace,
(39:12):
and that goes back to theemotional regulation.
So, you know, kind of coveringeverything or maybe it's
actually supporting everything.
I think it's probably supportingeverything is taking the
responsibility as mature women,whether we're the
daughter-in-law or mother-in-law, to take responsibility for our
(39:32):
own emotions.
For our own emotions, um, we,just because someone acts some
way, doesn't mean that, you know, we have to make it mean
something negative.
We can choose.
Goes back to the previousexample.
We can choose whatever we wantto think about it, um, and we
can't depend on her to make ushappy.
(39:54):
I was depending on mymother-in-law to make me feel
like I was a gooddaughter-in-law, and she didn't
do it.
She couldn't do it RightChronic disappointment, exactly,
and so I was very unhappy.
But when we take control of ourown emotions, it doesn't matter
what other people do, because wemake the decision.
(40:17):
Well, that's who they are, andI choose not to be upset about
it.
And we live in this world whereemotions drive everything.
Emotions are important, butthey're not the most important.
I mean, we need to think, weneed to be more conscious of how
we're thinking, because it'sthose thoughts that create those
(40:39):
feelings.
We don't even realize that.
We just think, we're justfeeling all the time.
And so, with regards to ourin-law, you know, decide, I'm
not going to, I'm not going togive over, basically surrender
my emotions, my emotionalregulation, my happiness, to
(41:00):
someone that you know, toanybody else, really anyone else
.
I'm going to takeresponsibility for my emotions.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yes, I fully agree with you and that I think
sometimes in this relationshipthat can be so delicate and and
just hard to navigate,especially right when you get
married um, you know, there canbe the like okay, you know, I'm
setting this boundary, and ifyou don't uphold this boundary
(41:32):
and just just going down thisrabbit hole, if this doesn't
happen, then this is what I'mgoing to do to you and again,
you're giving all your power andcontrol over to the other
person, versus just politelysetting a boundary and then
allowing them to respond orreact in whatever way they
respond or react, but that alsodoesn't mean we have to then
(41:54):
play off of their reaction andkeep this negativity going, we
can politely step away or say Ican tell you're really upset
right now and I'm just going toneed a little time out.
but I think we can call eachother tomorrow, once we've slept
on this, and return to theconversation.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, I think what you said was good.
You know, we don't walk into arelationship and start setting
boundaries and I think a lot ofpeople do that.
Let's just let people live fora little bit and understand each
other.
And again, I think I said it inthe very beginning it takes
time.
It takes time to get to knowsomeone.
It takes time to feelcomfortable with it.
(42:34):
I mean like years it takesyears.
Why do we think it doesn't?
I know.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
And if you're listening to this and you're
thinking, okay, janet and Jordan, you have no idea what's going
on over here in my relationshipwith my daughter-in-law or my
mother-in-law, like, it's waydifferent it's.
You can't rescue this.
This is just, you know, purehell.
But I just want to encourageyou that there's always hope,
(43:01):
you know, and it might not bequite as wrecked as you have
built up in your mind, eventhough it feels really heavy or
distant or totally, you know,separate.
There's always a chance ofreconciliation in any
relationship and, personally,one of the things that I've used
(43:22):
in my relationship with mymother-in-law is like just
self-deprecating humor everyonce in a while and just going,
you know what?
That probably was totally myfault, you know.
I just we've never been onvacation with you overseas, you
know.
So this is a new, even thoughwe've.
You know, my husband and I havebeen married 20 years.
(43:42):
Just a couple of years ago, wewent to Greece with our in-laws,
you know, for two weeks, and sothere was a lot of little
incidences where you're like,why is this happening?
And it's like, hello, becausewe've never traveled and been on
a bus together for days orwhatever, you know.
And so this is just new.
This is just new territory andwe're all trying to navigate it
(44:03):
and kind of there can be afeeling of like walking on
eggshells sometime, like oh, isthat going to upset her or is
that going to upset?
And my mother-in-law feels thesame way.
I can tell Like there's thislittle trepidation.
Like mom feels the same way.
I can tell like there's thislittle trepidation, like should
I ask her if it's okay if we goto the certain restaurant, you
know?
So there's a sensitivityhappening and I think if both of
you can just go, okay, this isnew.
(44:25):
This takes time.
We've never been here before.
Again, it's that empathy, thatcompassion, and it changes the
lens through which you end upfeeling about whatever words are
exchanged.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, yeah, and, and you go back to the we're
different, we're just different.
Yeah, it's interesting.
You were on your.
I was thinking you have twoweeks of in Greece with in-laws
and I I wonder you know, did youhave any kind of conflicts with
your husband during that time?
I bet you did.
I mean, I would have right, oh,I'm shy.
Yeah, but we make it mean morewhen it's about her right.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Why do we do this?
I don't know.
I don't know.
You know, in every relationshipwe're going to have conflict of
some kind, for you know, somemore than others, and I do think
I've heard from women, as Isaid, on both sides, maybe ends
of the spectrum, where they Ithink we throw around this term
(45:24):
toxic we have a toxicdaughter-in-law, I have a toxic
mother-in-law, so I'm not I mean, I know that there's a
definition for it but I would bevery, very careful about
identifying and labeling a toxicmother-in-law or a toxic
daughter-in-law, because as soonas you label them, that it's
(45:46):
suddenly like, and I can't doanything about it, that's just
who she is right.
So, really, you know, there'sthis saying the mind finds what
it seeks, and I think that wehave to look more in our
relationships all of ourrelationships, really, but
especially, probably, with ourin-law relationship we have to
(46:07):
look for the ways in which theyare kind, look for the ways in
which they are generous, becauseif we're looking for the ways
in which they are not, we'regoing to find them and we're
going to focus on them.
The brain loves the negativeand we're just going to focus on
that all the time and it'sgoing to feel like you know
we're going to be defeated.
This will never be good, but ifwe can find like when Michael
(46:27):
said that she's doing the bestshe can, I started looking at
some of the things that she diddo um, that was just the best
that she could do, rather thanfocusing on that negative all
the time.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
That is so important and that is a real practical
tool.
You know, if you're listening,go on the hunt.
Challenge yourself, go on thehunt for something that your
mother-in-law or daughter-in-lawdoes well, and maybe, if you're
experiencing a strainedrelationship with your
mother-in-law or daughter-in-law, challenge yourself to write
(47:02):
down two things every morningwhen you first wake up, that is
positive about the other person,because you will find that,
like Janet you said, the mindwill find what it's seeking or
what it's looking after.
And so if you train your mind,even with a short journal prompt
, you know positives about mymother-in-law or positives about
(47:24):
my daughter-in-law, you'regoing to start noticing the
little things that are beautifulabout her.
And I want to circle back towhat you said before about
talking to your husband abouttheir mother, or you know even
mother-in-laws talking to theirhusbands about their
(47:45):
daughter-in-law spot.
But it's really kind of anattempt to persuade the other
person that they're really kindof bad or or this isn't good,
and you should be equally asupset as I am.
You know, we should share thesame view on how rough this
(48:11):
really is and that's just notfair to to really put all of
your um, you know of yourperceptions on another person
and then sort of work toconvince them to look at that
person in the same way.
Right, we would never want thatto happen to us.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
We don't, but we want an ally, right.
When we think somethingnegative of someone, we want an
ally.
When we think somethingnegative of someone, we want an
ally.
And you're right, it's unfairbecause as soon as we label them
, brand them something, and thenwe get other people to think
the same thing, that poor person, whether it's the daughter or
the mother-in-law, shouldn'thave a chance.
And for mothers-in-law, I wouldreally encourage you to be
(48:54):
patient.
Be patient with this woman.
She's a girl in your mind,probably, right, she's young and
whatever, and she hascompletely, probably, different
ideas of what you.
I mean, you know my daughtersare all about, you know, making
sure everything is healthy, andI don't even know the
(49:15):
terminology that they use forthe milk that they get and all
of that.
And I'm like my kids grew up onCaptain Crunch, so you know
it's, it's understanding, that'sokay, that's who they are.
You know things have evolved.
It's been, you know, 40 years,35 years, and so let them be who
they.
Let them experience things, letthem try things, without
jumping in and saying you reallydon't want to do that.
(49:43):
That's really not going to work.
Support them just by lovingthem.
It doesn't mean you have to sayanything and you don't have to
solve all their problems.
That's, you know, because wethink we have the wisdom and we
do have the wisdom, but theyhave to gain it, just like we
had to gain it.
You know, we had to.
We had to learn things throughtrial and error, and they do too
, and we just need to love themthrough the learning.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
I love that advice and I think, just to piggyback
off of that, even asking likewould you mind if I gave you a
tip about tantruming, right, andthey.
And then respect if they say,no, I really I'm not up for for
advice right now.
I can't handle that right now,maybe another day, okay, no
(50:26):
problem.
But I think both parties canask permission, right?
Would it be okay when I comevisit if I bring a lasagna?
That's what my mother-in-lawsays?
And I'm like be okay when Icome visit if I bring a lasagna?
That's what my mother-in-lawsays?
And I'm like, yes, this wouldbe great.
And sometimes I say I'vealready got tons of groceries
from Costco and I've got mealsplanned out.
Thank you so much, but nexttime I'll take you up on the
(50:46):
offer, right?
So just asking, and thenhonoring the person's boundary
too.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, yeah, and just going back to boundaries kind of
, as we kind of wrap it up alittle bit, um, we, we must
remember that we are twoseparate families, united but
we're separate, and I think thatprobably is the biggest
expectation that um tripseveryone up.
(51:14):
As daughters-in-law, we feellike we should make her happy by
doing what she's expecting orwhat she wants, which only
causes resentment in us and asthe mother-in-law, we forget
that she's starting a new familyand we need to give her that
space and the freedom that'srightfully hers to start that
new family.
So I think, probably thebiggest thing and we always
(51:39):
leave it to the end becauseeverybody wants practical,
practical, practical right butwe need to pray more for our
mother-in-law or ourdaughter-in-law.
And you will find I found it inmy life that when I pray for
someone the resentments just goaway.
Not sometimes it takes a while,depending on how deep the
resentment is, but it will goaway.
(52:01):
And the more we pray forsomeone, the more actually we
fall in love with them becausewe want what's best for them.
And sometimes I have found whenI'm praying for someone I see
where I can do better and that'simportant as part of our prayer
.
So I think both should bepraying for each other, and then
(52:23):
let's pray for that man in themiddle.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yes, let's pray for that man in the middle as well.
I love that and, yes, that issomething that we can do.
That is not scary.
It's not stepping out in a new,assertive way right off the bat
, but just praying.
Lord, soften my heart towardsthis woman.
Lord, help me and my husband beon the same page in setting
(52:49):
healthy boundaries anddeveloping our own family.
Help me to respect mydaughter-in-law's decisions
around the holidays and tosupport them truly leaving the
home and cleaving to one another.
Right.
I mean simple prayers that makea huge difference.
So, janet, as always, you'vegiven us such hope and practical
(53:13):
wisdom and I just want to thankyou again for coming on our
show.
Tell us a little bit about Imean, you've coached women in
this dynamic and you have acourse for both mothers and
daughters that can log in andtake your digital course that is
(53:36):
more expansive on thisrelationship, right?
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Right, yeah, so I took all of the knowledge of
being a daughter-in-law, amother-in-law, and then all the
people that I coach and thethings that they deal with, and
I kind of sifted it down to afew main points and so it's
called the mother-in-lawdaughter-in-law dynamic, and so
it's called theMother-in-Law-Daughter-in-Law
Dynamic and it's about creatingjust a healthy relationship.
(53:59):
So I did create it for both andactually I have had a
mother-in-law anddaughter-in-law.
The pair come in and take thecourse together, and so it was
very interesting.
I think they were very open toeach other, which I thought was
just so beautiful interesting.
I think they were very open toeach other, which I thought was
just so beautiful.
But, yeah, so it's a courseabout how to have emotional
(54:20):
independence from each other,how to let go of expectations,
how to set those thoughtfulboundaries, how to have
effective communication skillsso that you're connecting rather
than disconnecting skills, sothat you're connecting rather
than disconnecting, and thenreally focusing on your husband
(54:41):
or your son, and how to not makeit hard on him.
So yeah, it's been prettysuccessful.
People have found it to be veryhelpful and they can just go to
JanetQuinlancom.
If you scroll down the homepage, it's at the bottom of the page
.
You can find it there.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
That's Janet Quinlan dot com.
We have that linked in our shownotes, so be sure to sift
through our show notes.
Click on that link and you willsee that course offered on her
website.
I think this would be a reallycool gift to give, like your
sister if she's getting married,maybe not your daughter-in-law
if she's marrying her son.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
That might be an overstep at the boundaries to
gift her that, but you mighteven say but to be honest, no,
but truthfully, themother-in-law this pair that
came in, she paid for both ofthem.
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah, it was really lovely.
And I asked the daughter-in-lawbecause I needed to understand
if there was conflict betweenthem, what was going on.
(55:41):
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah, it was really lovely.
And I asked the daughter-in-lawbecause I needed to understand
if there was conflict betweenthem, what was going on, because
I did a coaching with them andshe's like no, no, no, we're
both very open, we both know weneed help and we're good.
I'm like, wow, that's wonderfuland mature.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
So yeah, that is fantastic.
The earlier you can get thiscourse, the better.
Think about it.
If you have children who are incollege and are dating, that
you keep this in your backpocket and maybe even purchase
it and go through it yourselfand then think of other people,
you could refer to this digitalcourse.
(56:12):
I just think this is somethingevery single married couple can
benefit from, and so why notjump in, dive in, check it out,
be open and have that curiosityto learn something new and
really implement some new skills?
So if you're listening today andyou're again just kind of
(56:35):
questioning, just remember that,no matter how rocky things may
feel now, change is absolutelypossible and with emotional
independence, grace and a littleintentional effort, you can
bridge, build this kind ofbridge that lasts in your family
for generations right.
(56:55):
You can model healthyrelationship with your
mother-in-law which your kidswill witness and be able to pass
on for generations to come.
So I think it's a absolutelyworthwhile effort to dive in,
invest some money and take thecourse and see how your
relationships can change.
(57:16):
Janet, thanks again for comingon the show.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yes, absolutely, janetquinlancom and guys, I will
catch you on another episode ofour show real soon.
Please be sure to share thisepisode with your spouse first
and foremost, and then kick thisout to everybody in your circle
.
This is a common issue thatneeds to be addressed, and
there's so much great fruit thatcan come from it.
(57:44):
So please share this episodewith people in your circle, take
care, and we'll catch you onanother episode real soon.
Welcome back.
Families of Character listeners.
I'm Jordan Langdon, your host,and today oh yes, today we are
diving into one of the mostdelicate, emotional and
sometimes downright trickyrelationships in family life.
That's right the mother anddaughter-in-law relationship.
(00:21):
Now listen, before you clutchyour pearls or start having
flashbacks at the most recentfamily get-together, just hang
with me, okay, because we'reabout to bring in some serious
wisdom.
Our guest today is no strangerto the Families of Character
show.
(00:41):
Janet Quinlan, master coach,speaker and host of the Finding
Joy in Marriage and Motherhoodpodcast, is back with us Now.
You might remember Janet fromepisode 135, where she shared 10
lessons learned about marriage.
Let me tell you that episodequickly became one of our most
(01:05):
downloaded episodes of 2025.
She has a real gift for justcutting through the noise and
speaking straight to the heartwith truth and grace and
practical tools you can actuallyuse.
So today, janet and I arepulling back the curtain on the
(01:25):
most common struggles betweenmothers and daughters-in-law.
So we're going to cover thingslike comparison control, unmet
expectations, poor communication, boundary blunders and what
happens when a husband and wifearen't on the same page with
(01:45):
family dynamics.
I know, yikes, we can allrelate to that on some level,
I'm sure.
But here's the good news Janetis going to teach us about
emotional independence, and thisis an absolute game changer
skill that really can turn thisrelationship from strained and
stressed to peaceful and thendeeply rewarding.
(02:09):
So we're going to talk abouthow to let go of heavy
expectations, how to setthoughtful, respectful
boundaries and how to trulyfoster understanding, patience
and connection over time.
So, whether you're amother-in-law, a daughter-in-law
, or you're just someonelistening who wants better
(02:30):
relationships, you're going towant to stay with us until the
end, because Janet shares somereally powerful strategies that
could change not just yourrelationship but the entire
atmosphere of your family life.
So let's get started.
Welcome back to our show, janetQuinlan.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm glad to be back.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Oh, this is wonderful , janet.
I know a lot of women listeningtoday are wondering like what
does a healthy, peacefulrelationship between a
mother-in-law anddaughter-in-law even look like
right?
Can you paint us a picture ofthat?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, and unfortunately I think it's in
the minority rather than themajority.
Most of the women that I coach,whether they're older women
like me with daughters-in-law,or younger women with
mothers-in-law they're allstruggling.
So I think this is a greattopic.
What does a good relationshiplook like?
(03:34):
Well, first we have to get toknow each other, and sometimes
we forget that part of it.
When we're a daughter-in-lawcoming into the relationship, we
think, well, he's in love withus, so she will naturally love
us.
When we're the mother-in-law andour son is bringing a daughter
(03:56):
into this family, we often think, well, I'd like to love her, I
hope to love her, but maybe wefeel a little nervous about it,
and a lot of that is because wehave had a relationship with our
son for, you know, at least youknow probably 22 years, maybe
(04:17):
even longer, a little bitshorter sometimes and there's a
rhythm to that relationship.
And so a good relationship withyour daughter-in-law is where
you welcome her in and she feelslike a daughter.
But we also want to be carefulthat we don't try to usurp the
mother's role in her life,because we're not her mother.
(04:39):
We want to treat her like adaughter and the daughter-in-law
will treat the mother-in-law,you know, like a mother as best
she can.
But there's this bond betweenour own mother that we often
feel a little nervous aboutbreaking in a sense, not even
completely, but just evenstressing.
So, adding to that a goodrelationship is where both know
(05:03):
boundaries, they know where theycan step in and where they need
to stay out.
We're thoughtful about eachother's needs.
So, as a daughter-in-law, I amthoughtful that, you know,
probably my husband had a veryclose or just even a
relationship with his mom.
Even if it wasn't close, it wasa specific relationship and
(05:23):
they both kind it was a specificrelationship and they both kind
of depend on that relationship.
And, as the mother-in-law,recognizing that he has a new
woman in his life and it'sawfully difficult when two women
love the same man, even thoughit's different ways.
You know, love is a very strongemotion and so just recognizing
(05:47):
that she is a part of his lifeand that we'd be very careful
that we don't take thingspersonally.
Very often, you know, especiallyin the beginning, we're just
trying to figure each other out.
It takes a long time to get toknow someone and I think we
automatically think that weshould just get along and be
(06:09):
best friends, but that takes along time.
So recognizing that that takestime.
And then I think the ultimatething is probably the most
difficult thing, and that isthat we have unconditional love
for each other is that we haveunconditional love for each
other, that we recognize theother as a child of God, that we
(06:36):
recognize that the other is insome way important to that man
in the middle I call him the manin the middle and that we just
really honor that and not try tostep over that boundary and not
try to step over that boundary.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yes, so many things are coming to mind as you talk
about what a healthyrelationship looks like between
a mother-in-law and adaughter-in-law, and one of the
things that stood out is the manin the middle.
If you are listening and youhave a mother-in-law, you're
thinking, yeah, my husband,that's him.
He often says, like this isreally tough.
I feel caught between a rockand a hard spot.
(07:11):
I don't know if I'm the rock orthe hard spot, but they do have
this really difficult role ofkind of maybe managing
communication between their momand their wife and and just um,
just the way you described thatman in the middle, I think that
really resonates with me in theway of having compassion and
(07:33):
empathy for our spouse too andhelping to use that uh, man in
the middle kind of um idea tohave compassion on my husband's
mom, right, and remember thathe's caught.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Right and I think for all the men who are listening,
they have to remember that.
You know they leave theirmother and father right and they
cleave to their spouse and sowhile a man has probably the
(08:10):
woman in his life that he'spleased the most has been his
mom, probably for all thoseyears, when you get married you
still honor your mother, youstill love her, but she is not
the first priority anymore.
The wife is the first priority.
And you know, differentrelationships kind of manifest,
(08:35):
getting to know each otherdifferently.
For some and I think I've heardmarriage counselors say this,
if you have a problem with yourmother-in-law, have your husband
talk to her.
Maybe that works.
What I find that is thatactually puts him more in the
middle and it almost eliminatesa little bit more intimacy in
(08:59):
relationship with ourmother-in-law or our
daughter-in-law and you know,just getting comfortable with
communicating our needs with her, whether she's the
daughter-in-law or theirmother-in-law, just going right
to her.
Because then I think we takeaway, you know, this idea of who
(09:22):
do you belong to.
We just are forming a newrelationship.
And when you form a newrelationship, trust is one of
the most important things in therelationship and if, if we're
not communicating directly andinstead putting the man there in
the center, then we're nevergoing to really, you know, form
(09:45):
that trust, that bond.
Sometimes it might go wrong,but sometimes it might go right
and we just have to, you know,really pray for her and then
also move towards her, ratherthan putting him, like in that
center of things.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That makes a lot of sense to me.
In counseling we call thattriangulation, right when you
introduce a third person thatreally doesn't need to be in the
mix and it causes a lot offriction between the two people
that need to be communicating.
So I like your advice of goingstraight to your mother-in-law
or your daughter-in-law andhaving a gentle conversation.
(10:23):
I'm sure you'll talk to us inthis episode about how to go
about that, with some filters inmind and some compassion, so
that you know defenses aren't upand you don't start off on the
wrong foot and kind of eeks, youknow, uh-oh, that blew up.
You know you also haveexperienced yourself with your
(10:45):
own mother-in-law um, back whenyou first got married, right?
So can you tell us a little bitabout your experience with your
mother-in-law?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, she didn't like me at all from the beginning
Now.
So this is almost 41 years agoOkay, it actually is 41 years
ago when we started dating Umand I didn't have the maturity,
uh, as a young woman, toappreciate what Michael and I
(11:15):
were sort of putting her through, in a sense.
Um, we met in October and eightweeks later we were engaged, um
, and he was calling her up andtelling her that he was marrying
this girl and um, she was veryclose to Michael of all, he's
one of five but his fatherpassed away when he was a senior
(11:39):
in high school and um, shereally relied on him and
depended on him, and so I thinkthat and I really do believe
this now that no woman wouldhave been okay for her, but,
instead of seeing it that way,that she just had this, it was
(12:00):
hard for her to let go ofMichael.
Um, I made it mean somethingabout me, right?
She didn't like me.
She, you know, was critical ofme what's the matter with me?
And and I tried harder andharder, and the harder I tried,
um, the more disappointed I was,because she really didn't want
a relationship with me.
She just didn't.
Um, and a couple of years intoour marriage, michael, I was
(12:28):
crying about it, as I frequentlydid, and Michael said you know,
she's doing the best she can,and of course that made me
angrier because I thought thiscan't possibly be the best that
she can do.
Right, she doesn't speak to meor she's critical of me and um,
(12:51):
but he was really correct and Ithink that this is a phrase that
, if we can apply almost toeverybody, but especially to
those around us that we want tolove or that are closest to us,
they are doing the best thatthey can, and sometimes that
best doesn't look like we thinkour best would look.
(13:14):
But actually here I was notdoing my best, because I was
being critical of her, becauseshe was critical of me, and you
know all of that.
So when he said that, it reallyput a different perspective on
things for me.
She had a very tough life, alife that I didn't have, and you
know we read in the gospel that, you know, for those who have
(13:36):
been given, more will be, youknow, required or asked.
And really that's what God wasasking of me was I was given a
lot of stable relationships inmy life and she wasn't, and so
he was asking me to be patientand kind, you know, and loving
with her, when maybe shecouldn't be that with me.
(13:56):
So, um, I really remember inthe beginning of our marriage
saying, uh, when I havedaughters-in-law and, by the way
, I have three now and twosons-in-law, I will make sure to
remember this Number onethey're doing the best they can.
(14:17):
And then also all the thingsthat I kind of was critical of,
I won't do so.
It was very helpful in a way.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yes, well, just having that lens and accepting
that you know truth from yourhusband, I think is a beautiful
way to get started in marriageis just to say remind ourselves
that this woman is doing thebest she has with the resources
that she has access to.
And in your case, wow, you know, eight weeks she kind of knew
(14:50):
of you and then all of a suddenyou're going to be the love of
his life and she's going, he'sgoing to leave me and cleave to
her and I don't even quite knowthis woman, you know.
So having some understandingand compassion definitely
changes that filter with whichwe kind of put their words and
(15:11):
their behavior through and candefinitely help.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, there's a term in coaching that we call
empathetic curiosity, and thatis when we look at someone with
empathy for who they are andwhat they're going through, but
we're curious about, okay, whydo they act the way they're
acting?
Um, rather than judgment andyou know, kind of being closed
(15:40):
off.
And so if, if women can look ateach other, what side of the
man they're on, and haveempathetic curiosity for the
other woman, I think that a lotof problems in the in-law
relationship will be resolved,because we won't make things
(16:02):
mean something to us that theydon't necessarily mean.
Yeah, so I just think thatthat's important to look at the
other person with eyes ofempathy and curiosity.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I love that.
Just a spirit of like, where isthis coming from for them,
versus why is this, why is sheattacking me or, you know,
making it personal to us.
I think that's a very commonmistake in this dynamic between
a mother-in-law anddaughter-in-law is oh this is
(16:41):
offensive, this is she meant tohurt me.
You know she's out to just getme Right.
We do what I call MSUN we makestuff up or making stuff up, and
that always goes poorly when weassign meaning to somebody's
(17:02):
words that are personallyoffensive to us.
And so I like the spirit ofcuriosity and even asking for
clarification.
The way you said that reallykind of hurt my feelings.
Can you tell me what you meantby that?
Because I'm over here in myhead kind of making things up
and I'm probably way overdoingit.
(17:23):
But would you mind explainingwhat you really meant by that?
I think that can be a healthyway to avoid that making stuff
up and get back to what youtalked about, the empathetic
curiosity.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, and I also think that it helps us.
I mean, I think you have tohave a lot of courage to do that
, but this is hopefully a longgame, right?
You get married.
You're just married for life,and so if we start just like
tucking resentments under therug and we just don't really,
(17:58):
you know, get clarity, um, thenit just builds and builds, and
builds, um, and I think you know, one of the things that we both
struggle with is and I know Ifor sure did was, um, having
certain expectations of what mymother-in-law would look like
and and, or what mydaughters-in-law would look like
(18:21):
, and so my threedaughters-in-law couldn't be
more different than I am.
I'm like, wait a minute, what?
Right?
And I'm very, very close to allmy children.
So it's not because, you know,their husbands didn't love me or
anything.
I mean, we have very closerelationships, but I can see how
each of those women is perfectfor that son.
(18:45):
They, uh, god, knew exactlywhat they needed.
And, um, our, I think ourinitial response is oh, why did
he pick her?
And that's a wrong pick, that'sa bad pick because they're not
like us, but God knows what he'sdoing.
And they're lovely, and we're10, 11 years now into one of the
(19:09):
relationships and then about 11, 10 and three, and I can really
see how those women arechallenging my sons to be the
best that they can be and lovingthem in ways that they need to
be loved and balancing them inways.
So we really have to be carefulabout expectations.
So I had expectations of amother-in-law.
(19:30):
You know that we would lunchtogether when we saw each other
and we would just sit and chatand we'd have the same things in
common, um, very similar to mymom with her daughter's-in-law,
um, and that just wasn't mymother-in-law.
She was, she was a she's passed, but, um, she was kind of cold,
(19:52):
very new England type, not atall interested in feelings, and
I was an education major.
I was all about feelings, yes,you know, and we really had
nothing in common and you knowsilly things like and I'm just
going to say this because I justthought of it, so maybe it's
something that someone else willbe okay with.
(20:14):
So, like the very firstChristmas that we met, she
bought me a size smaller than Iwore and it was a small.
I'm like I didn't even wear asmall when I was a junior in
high school.
Oh, no, yeah, so you know, butit's so dumb I made it mean oh,
she thinks I'm fat and I was.
I mean it was not fat.
(20:35):
And so we have to just notapply all kinds of emotions and
stories to what they do or say.
We have to be really carefulabout that.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Oh, yes, and I can only imagine that.
Just like, how do I respond tothe size Small?
Thank you kind of with thissneer Well that's what Michael
said.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
He's like why don't you compliment?
And I'm like, come on, really.
So anyway, yeah, but you knowwe grow up.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
But these are real experiencesthat you have, or the way that
someone looks at you, you know,at the dinner table, when you're
all at a holiday gathering andyou just make something, mean
something about that.
And so, yeah, expectations area thing, right when you say I
want it to be like this, andthen the reality is different.
(21:30):
That's just really hard toreconcile inside the difference
between what you want and what'shappening.
And so I think we have toconstantly be turning this sort
of dial of expectations back toremember she's doing the best
she can with the resources she'sgot and the background that she
brings to this relationship.
(21:51):
And so I'm going to try to kindof neutralize the expectation
and receive, you know,charitably, whatever she's
capable of giving me.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, and I want to dive deeper just for a minute on
that because, um, you know, wejust finished with um, went
through the holiday seasons andthere's a huge expectations
about what happens in theholidays and, um, as a
mother-in-law, I want toencourage all mothers-in-law
(22:24):
that their children, whetherit's their daughter or their
sons, um, as adults, they get todecide what they want to do.
I really, I think that we havethis big problem where there is
this expectation that you keepcoming around to the mother's
house, that you show up atChristmas, that you show up at
(22:47):
Easter, that you're always there, you bring your wife, you bring
your kids, but you better bethere and I, I, I personally
think that that creates so muchdivision in a family, um, that
you know, the one day they haveto be there, one day to prove
that they love you.
I mean, first of all, you'vegot all year to show that you
(23:09):
love each other and, second ofall, what if you had your family
celebration on a different day?
Because, don't forget, as wetalked about, as the husband
leaves, you know, both of themleave their family of origin to
create a new family that haspriority.
They get to decide how theywant to celebrate those big
occasions in their family life.
(23:32):
I was talking to a client ohgosh, a couple of years ago and
it happened to be afterChristmas, and I said how was
your Christmas?
And she said well, I heard yourpodcast about traditions.
And she said you know what ourtradition is?
On Christmas day, we're in thecar, driving from place to place
.
She said the kids are tired,they're crabby and we never get
what we want as a family and Ithought that is a real pity.
(23:55):
That's awful.
So I'm going to offer this toto mothers-in-law.
Here's what we do for Christmasanyway.
We haven't gotten to a placewith Easter or Thanksgiving, but
for Christmas we don'tcelebrate Christmas.
I mean, we do celebrateChristmas on Christmas day, but
not the whole family.
So if you're single, if one ofmy kids are single, they're
(24:16):
coming over.
You know, michael and I willhave a meal with them, my mom.
But if you're married, I tellthem you do what you want to do
for Christmas.
So two things one, they get todecide.
And two, if they have amother-in-law who's not you know
.
So, um, I don't know if you wantto say gracious, but who
(24:37):
demands that they be at herhouse, they can decide if they
want to do that and they don'thave to choose.
But for me and for our family,we always celebrate Christmas on
Feast of the Holy Family, whichis just the next Sunday, and so
everybody comes over and that'swhen we celebrate our Christmas
.
And I really think that we haveto think outside the box on how
we do major family celebrations, so that there isn't a choice
(25:01):
that has to be made.
Feelings aren't hurt.
We just get proactive indeciding how can we do this so
you get to start your littlefamily and have your traditions
and we still get to see eachother at, you know, a really
great holiday time.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So I think that's Thank you for sharing that from
your perspective too of being amother-in-law and having grown
children with their own families.
I think that's great advice.
I was just talking to a womancoming out of church the other
day and she was talking abouther most recent holiday.
She was so excited.
All of my kids and all of theirkids came back and I said, oh,
(25:40):
my goodness, what a gift that isto you.
I said I know what it takes toschlep your kids around you know
five hours in the car orwhatever, and that's a lot you
know and bringing all your stuffand gifts and things.
And she said I hope it neverends.
Never, I hope it never ends.
And there was this clutching ofyou know I could tell that this
(26:02):
was something so important toher.
But I like what you said.
Like you know, let your childdecide what they want to do.
Maybe some of your kids decidethat is worth it for them to
make the trip and come and bringall the kids.
But to give permission to yourdaughter-in-law and your son is
such a beautiful thing becauseit is a lot you know, and I
(26:27):
think you know there's sort of aspeaking out of both sides of
our mouth if we believe, as amother-in-law, that it is
important for our children, youknow, biblically based to leave
their father and mother andcleave to their bride.
But then we're saying, but notin this instance.
(26:47):
Yes, right, not on Christmasday, right, I reign here and you
need to do, you know,prioritize me or us over your
spouse.
It's like, oh, but I thought wewere supposed to leave and
cleave, you know, and now I'mmixing that up.
So thank you for giving thatadvice.
I think that's permission is ahuge thing that we seek as
daughters-in-law, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Mm-hmm yeah.
So much Another thing that yeah,I think this kind of goes along
with it are boundaries.
You know, when we haveexpectations, we sometimes lose
the boundary.
And so what does that mean?
It means that you know if amother-in-law just wants to see
(27:32):
the kids, and she just pops overand knocks on the door and
opens the door, and you know, wejust have to recognize that we
are separate, families separate.
We're connected still, butseparate in the way we live our
lives.
And that's probably the biggestthing that many of the
(27:54):
daughters-in-law you knowexpress frustration about is
that the mother-in-law hasthere's no boundaries.
You know she wants to be in thedelivery room.
She wants to be.
Yeah, I know, it's a thing now.
I'm like I didn't even want tobe in delivery I know, my
husband didn't want to be Right,but it's a thing now.
Didn't want to be here, right,but it's a thing now.
(28:19):
Um, and you know many will comeover and you know, um, maybe
start cleaning up or whateverwithout permission, right, um,
or just show up withoutpermission.
And so what does it mean tocreate a boundary?
Well, first of all, we have toget to a place where we
recognize that we're doing itfrom a sense of calm and love,
to enhance the relationship, notto punish her.
(28:42):
That's really important.
And then we communicate itclearly.
So, for instance, if you knowthe mother-in-law shows up and
rings the bell and you feel likeI can't just turn her away, um,
you can when you say to herhere's the thing, when I'm home
with the kids, um, I'm reallynot ready for visitors.
(29:05):
So if you would like to come,just call me or text me, ask,
and I'll let you know if it'savailable.
But if you come to the doorwithout having asked or, you
know, texted or whatever, Iwon't answer the door.
It's just the boundary that I'mgoing to create.
I love you, I want you to seethe kids, but I also have a life
(29:28):
and I have a schedule and Iwant to make sure that you know
we're doing the things that weneed to do for our family, but
also we want you to know that wewant you to see the kids.
We just need some advancedwarning.
So that would be a boundary, asopposed to and I've heard this
from some mothers-in-law abouttheir daughter-in-law who just
(29:50):
say you know, we're not going tosee you again, it's just not
happening.
There's no understanding as towhy.
What did I do wrong?
You know where has this gone?
That's not a boundary, that's apunishment.
That's right.
Yeah, so we want to be reallyclear with boundaries and I
think to the men, they have tofacilitate that boundary.
(30:11):
They have to for their wives,they have to really get on the
same page, always on the samepage, with dealing with both of
the mothers you know, her mother, his mother and then, for his
mom, helping her understand whyhis wife has created the
(30:34):
boundary and if it's a boundary,that's really not fair.
Then have a conversation withhis wife and say okay, why are
we doing this?
Is there a different way thatwe can, you know, facilitate the
end without the punishmentaspect of it?
Um, and that's, that's justsomething that you have to work
through the boundaries arereally important.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
They are.
I want to underscore thatBoundaries are really important
and when you were giving theexample of the mother-in-law
showing up at the door and justbeing very specific about okay,
this is an issue of you showingup without advance notice.
I love you and this is just anincident.
This isn't an overall judgmentof you as a person, but here's
(31:24):
exactly what I'm asking forbeing specific about that is so
crucial to this dynamic because,like you said, you could blow
it up and just say in know, inmy mind, using that kind of all
or nothing thinking where you'resaying she always shows up
without you know, advancedwarning.
I'm sick of this, we're notseeing her again.
(31:45):
Instead, just addressing thingsas they come up in the moment,
being specific and sticking tothe facts that example you gave
was very clear.
Let your stick into the factshere.
Example you gave was very clearthat you're sticking to the
facts.
Here's what just happened.
Here's what I would like foryou to do.
I love you and let's see if wecan make this work next time.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Another place where I think alot of people overstep
boundaries are gift giving.
So at Christmas time, lots ofmothers-in-law love to just pour
their love through gift giving,but a lot of daughters-in-law,
especially in this age ofminimalism, they don't want all
the stuff.
(32:25):
And so if your daughter-in-lawsays to you one gift please,
there's probably nothing morethat you can do to show your
daughter-in-law that you loveher than give one gift that
shows that you respect her, yourespect her judgment, you
respect who she is as a mother.
And then also for thedaughters-in-law if you still
(32:47):
get 10 gifts, you should feelthe freedom to say to the kids
what do you want, and the restwill give to charity.
You don't have the obligationto keep what.
You know.
If someone has gone past theboundary, you don't have the
obligation to keep it.
So that's you know that's a bigthing is the amount of gifts
(33:11):
that people give.
So you know, I think that wehave to remember that as women
we have different you know, wecall them love languages, right
Different ways that we show love.
We're just differentpersonalities.
Like I mentioned about mydaughters-in-law, never occurred
(33:31):
to me that my sons would choosethe daughters that they chose.
I thought they would chooselike me.
And so we have to kind of keepreminding ourselves of that,
that she's different and that'sokay.
She, you know, if she doessomething that we would be like,
what the heck?
We just have to be like, well,that's who she is, that's okay,
(33:52):
she's different.
But when we go into that, youknow that, um, like rabbit hole
of, oh my gosh, I can't believeshe did that and what is she
thinking, and you know what isshe trying to prove and what is
she saying about me.
It's like that.
You know that spiral thinkingthat never goes well because it
(34:13):
creates those feelings, whetherthey're anger or disappointment
or frustration or whatever.
They're always negativefeelings.
And then when we have thosenegative feelings, we show up in
ways that we don't really wantto show up.
And so and I think that thatprobably is maybe the biggest
message I would like to offer topeople is, ask yourself who do
(34:38):
you want to be in thisrelationship, no matter what she
does, whether it's themother-in-law or daughter-in-law
, who do you want to be in thisrelationship?
And you know, maybe even writedown I want to be patient, I
want to be understanding, I wantto have clear boundaries.
I mean, it doesn't mean thatyou have to be the doormat, but
(35:05):
who is God calling you to be asa woman to this other woman and
then kind of keep going back tothat?
What do you want to think abouther?
And when a negative thoughtcomes up, how can you change it?
So it's a thought that ispositive that you can still
believe.
When she gives 10 gifts and youknow you told her one gift, you
know a million times yourthought could be she disrespects
(35:28):
me because she keeps giving 10gifts, right, right.
But what if you change that?
What if you reframe that to?
That's her love language.
That's how she shows her love.
It's okay, I don't have to keepit.
I don't have to get angry aboutit.
It's just who she is.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Oh that, just right at the beginning, when you said,
oh, she's giving 10 gifts here.
She's doing this again.
I've told her a million times.
I kind of felt this tensioninside, like yeah, yeah.
And then when you said, youknow, this is who she is, this
is how she expresses love, thisis one of her love languages,
like gift giving is a thing thatbrings her joy, well then I can
(36:04):
say okay, and I also have thechoice of you know, sifting
through these with my kids andsaying, okay, which one are we
going to keep and which onecould we bless other people with
, because we're not bringing allthese into the home.
But that's such a difference.
The reframe makes such adifference because, man, if you
stick with that first train ofthought, we are not doing gifts.
(36:27):
You know Christmas with yourmother again, I can hear that
you know happening and justgoing down this whole, like
let's just cut off thisrelationship, it's too much to
deal with versus that empatheticcuriosity oh yeah, she is a
gift giver, this is what bringsher joy, and instead of cutting
her off from that, we're justgoing to do with these gifts
(36:50):
what we want once we get backhome and it'll be okay.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, it will be okay.
The world will not come to anend, you'll just figure it out.
You may even pack up nine ofthem and put them away, and in
the middle of the summer, whenthe kids are making you crazy,
you pull out one of those giftsif you want you know, God bless
grandma.
Yeah, right, right.
And then going back to that manin the middle, I think there's
another point that I wanted tojust bring up that as his wife,
(37:19):
we have to be very sensitive tothe place that he is in.
That means that we don'tcomplain to him all the time
about her.
We don't, you know, get angrywith him maybe for not, you know
, stepping up.
I mean, there was an episodethat his mother, michael's
(37:39):
mother, spoke to me reallypoorly and said some really
harsh things and this is thevery beginning of our
relationship and marriage andMichael didn't say anything.
I was so angry, I felt betrayedby my husband.
But what we have to remember ishe's learning too.
He's learning a very difficulttask of keeping two women happy,
(38:03):
two probably very differentwomen, and we have to have
empathy for him.
Now that doesn't mean that, youknow, we don't.
We don't bring up, you know,maybe, big issues and say, how
can we resolve this, like thetwo of us, um.
But we don't say, okay, yep,your mom did it again.
As you get in the car, leavingher house, you know she's off,
(38:26):
you know, um.
And on the flip side, you know,as a mother-in-law, we don't
call him up, we don't call herson up and say what on earth is
wrong with your wife, you up.
We don't call her son up andsay what on earth is wrong with
your wife.
You know she can't control thekids.
They're always crying, you know.
Whatever it is, um, that's he's.
He's not the place for that.
It's unfair to him actually.
(38:48):
And so that's where we get backinto the reframing, rather than
just like making him thepunching bag, you know, and just
vomiting all of our unhappinessor our anger or disappointment
or unmet expectations on him.
That's not his problem.
We have to figure out how toreframe so that we're at peace,
(39:12):
and that goes back to theemotional regulation.
So, you know, kind of coveringeverything or maybe it's
actually supporting everything.
I think it's probably supportingeverything is taking the
responsibility as mature women,whether we're the
daughter-in-law or mother-in-law, to take responsibility for our
(39:32):
own emotions.
For our own emotions, um, we,just because someone acts some
way, doesn't mean that, you know, we have to make it mean
something negative.
We can choose.
Goes back to the previousexample.
We can choose whatever we wantto think about it, um, and we
can't depend on her to make ushappy.
(39:54):
I was depending on mymother-in-law to make me feel
like I was a gooddaughter-in-law, and she didn't
do it.
She couldn't do it RightChronic disappointment, exactly,
and so I was very unhappy.
But when we take control of ourown emotions, it doesn't matter
what other people do, because wemake the decision.
(40:17):
Well, that's who they are, andI choose not to be upset about
it.
And we live in this world whereemotions drive everything.
Emotions are important, butthey're not the most important.
I mean, we need to think, weneed to be more conscious of how
we're thinking, because it'sthose thoughts that create those
(40:39):
feelings.
We don't even realize that.
We just think, we're justfeeling all the time.
And so, with regards to ourin-law, you know, decide, I'm
not going to, I'm not going togive over, basically surrender
my emotions, my emotionalregulation, my happiness, to
(41:00):
someone that you know, toanybody else, really anyone else
.
I'm going to takeresponsibility for my emotions.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yes, I fully agree with you and that I think
sometimes in this relationshipthat can be so delicate and and
just hard to navigate,especially right when you get
married um, you know, there canbe the like okay, you know, I'm
setting this boundary, and ifyou don't uphold this boundary
(41:32):
and just just going down thisrabbit hole, if this doesn't
happen, then this is what I'mgoing to do to you and again,
you're giving all your power andcontrol over to the other
person, versus just politelysetting a boundary and then
allowing them to respond orreact in whatever way they
respond or react, but that alsodoesn't mean we have to then
(41:54):
play off of their reaction andkeep this negativity going, we
can politely step away or say Ican tell you're really upset
right now and I'm just going toneed a little time out.
but I think we can call eachother tomorrow, once we've slept
on this, and return to theconversation.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, I think what you said was good.
You know, we don't walk into arelationship and start setting
boundaries and I think a lot ofpeople do that.
Let's just let people live fora little bit and understand each
other.
And again, I think I said it inthe very beginning it takes
time.
It takes time to get to knowsomeone.
It takes time to feelcomfortable with it.
(42:34):
I mean like years it takesyears.
Why do we think it doesn't?
I know.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
And if you're listening to this and you're
thinking, okay, janet and Jordan, you have no idea what's going
on over here in my relationshipwith my daughter-in-law or my
mother-in-law, like, it's waydifferent it's.
You can't rescue this.
This is just, you know, purehell.
But I just want to encourageyou that there's always hope,
(43:01):
you know, and it might not bequite as wrecked as you have
built up in your mind, eventhough it feels really heavy or
distant or totally, you know,separate.
There's always a chance ofreconciliation in any
relationship and, personally,one of the things that I've used
(43:22):
in my relationship with mymother-in-law is like just
self-deprecating humor everyonce in a while and just going,
you know what?
That probably was totally myfault, you know.
I just we've never been onvacation with you overseas, you
know.
So this is a new, even thoughwe've.
You know, my husband and I havebeen married 20 years.
(43:42):
Just a couple of years ago, wewent to Greece with our in-laws,
you know, for two weeks, and sothere was a lot of little
incidences where you're like,why is this happening?
And it's like, hello, becausewe've never traveled and been on
a bus together for days orwhatever, you know.
And so this is just new.
This is just new territory andwe're all trying to navigate it
(44:03):
and kind of there can be afeeling of like walking on
eggshells sometime, like oh, isthat going to upset her or is
that going to upset?
And my mother-in-law feels thesame way.
I can tell Like there's thislittle trepidation.
Like mom feels the same way.
I can tell like there's thislittle trepidation, like should
I ask her if it's okay if we goto the certain restaurant, you
know?
So there's a sensitivityhappening and I think if both of
you can just go, okay, this isnew.
(44:25):
This takes time.
We've never been here before.
Again, it's that empathy, thatcompassion, and it changes the
lens through which you end upfeeling about whatever words are
exchanged.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, yeah, and, and you go back to the we're
different, we're just different.
Yeah, it's interesting.
You were on your.
I was thinking you have twoweeks of in Greece with in-laws
and I I wonder you know, did youhave any kind of conflicts with
your husband during that time?
I bet you did.
I mean, I would have right, oh,I'm shy.
Yeah, but we make it mean morewhen it's about her right.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Why do we do this?
I don't know.
I don't know.
You know, in every relationshipwe're going to have conflict of
some kind, for you know, somemore than others, and I do think
I've heard from women, as Isaid, on both sides, maybe ends
of the spectrum, where they Ithink we throw around this term
(45:24):
toxic we have a toxicdaughter-in-law, I have a toxic
mother-in-law, so I'm not I mean, I know that there's a
definition for it but I would bevery, very careful about
identifying and labeling a toxicmother-in-law or a toxic
daughter-in-law, because as soonas you label them, that it's
(45:46):
suddenly like, and I can't doanything about it, that's just
who she is right.
So, really, you know, there'sthis saying the mind finds what
it seeks, and I think that wehave to look more in our
relationships all of ourrelationships, really, but
especially, probably, with ourin-law relationship we have to
(46:07):
look for the ways in which theyare kind, look for the ways in
which they are generous, becauseif we're looking for the ways
in which they are not, we'regoing to find them and we're
going to focus on them.
The brain loves the negativeand we're just going to focus on
that all the time and it'sgoing to feel like you know
we're going to be defeated.
This will never be good, but ifwe can find like when Michael
(46:27):
said that she's doing the bestshe can, I started looking at
some of the things that she diddo um, that was just the best
that she could do, rather thanfocusing on that negative all
the time.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
That is so important and that is a real practical
tool.
You know, if you're listening,go on the hunt.
Challenge yourself, go on thehunt for something that your
mother-in-law or daughter-in-lawdoes well, and maybe, if you're
experiencing a strainedrelationship with your
mother-in-law or daughter-in-law, challenge yourself to write
(47:02):
down two things every morningwhen you first wake up, that is
positive about the other person,because you will find that,
like Janet you said, the mindwill find what it's seeking or
what it's looking after.
And so if you train your mind,even with a short journal prompt
, you know positives about mymother-in-law or positives about
(47:24):
my daughter-in-law, you'regoing to start noticing the
little things that are beautifulabout her.
And I want to circle back towhat you said before about
talking to your husband abouttheir mother, or you know even
mother-in-laws talking to theirhusbands about their
(47:45):
daughter-in-law spot.
But it's really kind of anattempt to persuade the other
person that they're really kindof bad or or this isn't good,
and you should be equally asupset as I am.
You know, we should share thesame view on how rough this
(48:11):
really is and that's just notfair to to really put all of
your um, you know of yourperceptions on another person
and then sort of work toconvince them to look at that
person in the same way.
Right, we would never want thatto happen to us.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
We don't, but we want an ally, right.
When we think somethingnegative of someone, we want an
ally.
When we think somethingnegative of someone, we want an
ally.
And you're right, it's unfairbecause as soon as we label them
, brand them something, and thenwe get other people to think
the same thing, that poor person, whether it's the daughter or
the mother-in-law, shouldn'thave a chance.
And for mothers-in-law, I wouldreally encourage you to be
(48:54):
patient.
Be patient with this woman.
She's a girl in your mind,probably, right, she's young and
whatever, and she hascompletely, probably, different
ideas of what you.
I mean, you know my daughtersare all about, you know, making
sure everything is healthy, andI don't even know the
(49:15):
terminology that they use forthe milk that they get and all
of that.
And I'm like my kids grew up onCaptain Crunch, so you know
it's, it's understanding, that'sokay, that's who they are.
You know things have evolved.
It's been, you know, 40 years,35 years, and so let them be who
they.
Let them experience things, letthem try things, without
jumping in and saying you reallydon't want to do that.
(49:43):
That's really not going to work.
Support them just by lovingthem.
It doesn't mean you have to sayanything and you don't have to
solve all their problems.
That's, you know, because wethink we have the wisdom and we
do have the wisdom, but theyhave to gain it, just like we
had to gain it.
You know, we had to.
We had to learn things throughtrial and error, and they do too
, and we just need to love themthrough the learning.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
I love that advice and I think, just to piggyback
off of that, even asking likewould you mind if I gave you a
tip about tantruming, right, andthey.
And then respect if they say,no, I really I'm not up for for
advice right now.
I can't handle that right now,maybe another day, okay, no
(50:26):
problem.
But I think both parties canask permission, right?
Would it be okay when I comevisit if I bring a lasagna?
That's what my mother-in-lawsays?
And I'm like be okay when Icome visit if I bring a lasagna?
That's what my mother-in-lawsays?
And I'm like, yes, this wouldbe great.
And sometimes I say I'vealready got tons of groceries
from Costco and I've got mealsplanned out.
Thank you so much, but nexttime I'll take you up on the
(50:46):
offer, right?
So just asking, and thenhonoring the person's boundary
too.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, yeah, and just going back to boundaries kind of
, as we kind of wrap it up alittle bit, um, we, we must
remember that we are twoseparate families, united but
we're separate, and I think thatprobably is the biggest
expectation that um tripseveryone up.
(51:14):
As daughters-in-law, we feellike we should make her happy by
doing what she's expecting orwhat she wants, which only
causes resentment in us and asthe mother-in-law, we forget
that she's starting a new familyand we need to give her that
space and the freedom that'srightfully hers to start that
new family.
So I think, probably thebiggest thing and we always
(51:39):
leave it to the end becauseeverybody wants practical,
practical, practical right butwe need to pray more for our
mother-in-law or ourdaughter-in-law.
And you will find I found it inmy life that when I pray for
someone the resentments just goaway.
Not sometimes it takes a while,depending on how deep the
resentment is, but it will goaway.
(52:01):
And the more we pray forsomeone, the more actually we
fall in love with them becausewe want what's best for them.
And sometimes I have found whenI'm praying for someone I see
where I can do better and that'simportant as part of our prayer
.
So I think both should bepraying for each other, and then
(52:23):
let's pray for that man in themiddle.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yes, let's pray for that man in the middle as well.
I love that and, yes, that issomething that we can do.
That is not scary.
It's not stepping out in a new,assertive way right off the bat
, but just praying.
Lord, soften my heart towardsthis woman.
Lord, help me and my husband beon the same page in setting
(52:49):
healthy boundaries anddeveloping our own family.
Help me to respect mydaughter-in-law's decisions
around the holidays and tosupport them truly leaving the
home and cleaving to one another.
Right.
I mean simple prayers that makea huge difference.
So, janet, as always, you'vegiven us such hope and practical
(53:13):
wisdom and I just want to thankyou again for coming on our
show.
Tell us a little bit about Imean, you've coached women in
this dynamic and you have acourse for both mothers and
daughters that can log in andtake your digital course that is
(53:36):
more expansive on thisrelationship, right?
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Right, yeah, so I took all of the knowledge of
being a daughter-in-law, amother-in-law, and then all the
people that I coach and thethings that they deal with, and
I kind of sifted it down to afew main points and so it's
called the mother-in-lawdaughter-in-law dynamic, and so
it's called theMother-in-Law-Daughter-in-Law
Dynamic and it's about creatingjust a healthy relationship.
(53:59):
So I did create it for both andactually I have had a
mother-in-law anddaughter-in-law.
The pair come in and take thecourse together, and so it was
very interesting.
I think they were very open toeach other, which I thought was
just so beautiful interesting.
I think they were very open toeach other, which I thought was
just so beautiful.
But, yeah, so it's a courseabout how to have emotional
(54:20):
independence from each other,how to let go of expectations,
how to set those thoughtfulboundaries, how to have
effective communication skillsso that you're connecting rather
than disconnecting skills, sothat you're connecting rather
than disconnecting, and thenreally focusing on your husband
(54:41):
or your son, and how to not makeit hard on him.
So yeah, it's been prettysuccessful.
People have found it to be veryhelpful and they can just go to
JanetQuinlancom.
If you scroll down the homepage, it's at the bottom of the page
.
You can find it there.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
That's Janet Quinlan dot com.
We have that linked in our shownotes, so be sure to sift
through our show notes.
Click on that link and you willsee that course offered on her
website.
I think this would be a reallycool gift to give, like your
sister if she's getting married,maybe not your daughter-in-law
if she's marrying her son.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
That might be an overstep at the boundaries to
gift her that, but you mighteven say but to be honest, no,
but truthfully, themother-in-law this pair that
came in, she paid for both ofthem.
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah, it was really lovely.
And I asked the daughter-in-lawbecause I needed to understand
if there was conflict betweenthem, what was going on.
(55:41):
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah, it was really lovely.
And I asked the daughter-in-lawbecause I needed to understand
if there was conflict betweenthem, what was going on, because
I did a coaching with them andshe's like no, no, no, we're
both very open, we both know weneed help and we're good.
I'm like, wow, that's wonderfuland mature.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
So yeah, that is fantastic.
The earlier you can get thiscourse, the better.
Think about it.
If you have children who are incollege and are dating, that
you keep this in your backpocket and maybe even purchase
it and go through it yourselfand then think of other people,
you could refer to this digitalcourse.
(56:12):
I just think this is somethingevery single married couple can
benefit from, and so why notjump in, dive in, check it out,
be open and have that curiosityto learn something new and
really implement some new skills?
So if you're listening today andyou're again just kind of
(56:35):
questioning, just remember that,no matter how rocky things may
feel now, change is absolutelypossible and with emotional
independence, grace and a littleintentional effort, you can
bridge, build this kind ofbridge that lasts in your family
for generations right.
(56:55):
You can model healthyrelationship with your
mother-in-law which your kidswill witness and be able to pass
on for generations to come.
So I think it's a absolutelyworthwhile effort to dive in,
invest some money and take thecourse and see how your
relationships can change.
(57:16):
Janet, thanks again for comingon the show.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yes, absolutely, janetquinlancom and guys, I will
catch you on another episode ofour show real soon.
Please be sure to share thisepisode with your spouse first
and foremost, and then kick thisout to everybody in your circle
.
This is a common issue thatneeds to be addressed, and
there's so much great fruit thatcan come from it.
(57:44):
So please share this episodewith people in your circle, take
care, and we'll catch you onanother episode real soon.
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