June 10, 2025 • 43 mins
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What if your prayers could provide spiritual armor for your spouse's daily battles? Katie Hartfiel's journey began with teenage letters to her future husband – little realizing God was orchestrating an extraordinary divine appointment.
Discover how the very week she committed to pray for her unknown future spouse, the man who would become her husband experienced a profound spiritual conversion hundreds of miles away.
Katie Hartfield shares her book Provide the Armor: Daily Scriptures to Pray Over Your Future or Present Spouse and explains how praying Scripture daily for spouses transforms marriages by changing our own hearts first.
• The book provides daily Scripture verses with reflections to pray over your spouse
• Prayer changes us first, then opens the door for God to work in our spouse's life
• Men face unique battles around identity, purpose, and worth
• Every man desires "a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue"
Get a copy of Provide the Armor by Katie Hartfiel and visit womaninlove.org or sheshallbecalledwoman.com to learn more about Katie's ministry.
The Thriving Family Accelerator provides an easy, 3-step process to lower stress, parent as a united team, and enjoy a true friendship with your spouse & relationship with your kids. Sign up now for this live parent coaching with proven methods for positively engaging your family and redistributing the mental load.
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Discover the secrets to building a connected + thriving family. All you'll need is a few minutes of your week—it's easy!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome back to our show.
Thanks for your feedbackregarding our podcast.
You know I've had people comeup to me at church and out at
the grocery store and be likehey, Jordan, thanks for doing
that episode with your husband,the one where he talks about
being the spiritual leader ofyour family.
That was super helpful for me.
It helps to have people shareour episode with people in their
(00:25):
small groups and and friendsand neighbors and all of that.
So thank you for doing that.
Now you've also told me thatyou've got caught, uh, binging
some of our episodes and goingdown rabbit holes, and you know
what.
I just think that's a okay.
This is a free resource forparents and grandparents and it
(00:46):
would not be possible for us topump out these weekly episodes
without the support of ouramazing donors.
So if you are listening and youhave, at any point in your life
, donated to this organizationover the past 15 years, Thank
you so much.
You are absolutely helping usto get this message out of being
(01:10):
intentional parents whoprioritize their faith and their
family in life to justthousands of different families
across the globe.
So thank you so much for yourgenerosity and let's just dive
into today's episode.
I got a super special guest onour show today and I'm just kind
(01:31):
of leaving her hanging overthere while I do my intro.
So I just want to welcome tothe show Katie Hartfield.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you so much for having me, Jordan.
It's always super fun to chatwith you.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh man, we became fast friends last year around
this time when I flew down toHouston to be a part of a
women's production that you puttogether, a video series for
Catholic women called she ShallBe Called Woman.
So thank you for inviting me togive talks on humility and
(02:09):
universal mortification andputting on the mind of Christ.
Those are big topics but Itried, in Jordan's style, to
just bring them to the audiencein all practicality and make it
something that was digestiblefor people to be able to really
apply to their day-to-day life.
(02:30):
So thanks again for having meon that amazing series that is
launched and done better thanany of us even imagined, right.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, oh my goodness, we've been so humbled by the
impact and, of course, I wanteveryone to know, like Jordan is
like the sweetheart of theprogram.
I love hearing especially we'vetalked about this from these
ladies that are like much older.
They're like I've never heardthese things before.
I've been into my faith for solong and I've done all the
(03:01):
things, but these are thingsthat like these old lady mind
blown.
So, uh, it's just been soincredible hearing the stories
and the impact that you've had,and I was just so grateful that
the Holy spirit brought ustogether.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Amen to that sister.
Well, you guys, katie is one ofus.
She is married.
She and Mark have been marriedfor years and they have four
kids and uh, and so she's in thetrenches with us.
She knows what it's like to bemarried and raise kids in this
day and age, and she is a verygifted speaker, which you'll
(03:35):
find out.
But she travels all over thecountry speaking to different
groups of Christians, andspecifically Catholics, on
everything, everything justwomen's issues, girls, teenagers
, love stories and just fallingin love with Jesus and
developing a prayer life.
(03:55):
So she's got a wealth ofexperience to share with us
today.
But I want to hone in onsomething specific, and that is
this most recent book that sheauthored, and when I visited
Katie, we were talking aboutthis book and I hadn't heard of
it before, and so I got a copyof it and I started using it
(04:17):
daily in my prayer life, and soif you're watching on YouTube,
you'll see me holding this up.
It's called Provide the ArmorDaily Scriptures to Pray Over
your Future or Present Spouse,and so I have been praying with
this book every day for about 10months, and it has radically
(04:39):
changed my relationship with myhusband because it gave me a
little nugget of scripture atthe beginning and then a good
prayer prompt and a reflectionand a personal story that Katie
wrote that I could relate to,and so I wanted Katie to be on
the show to tell us first of all, kind of like, what prompted
(05:00):
her to write this book, and thento just understand the impact
she's having on so many women,because if you've been to my
talks, you will know that I givethis book out right when you
put your name in a hat.
I do drawings and I hand thesebooks out to women and I tell
them how much it has changed myrelationship with my spouse and
(05:23):
helped me grow closer to myhusband in the way that I'm able
to do something every singleday that really builds him up
and helps him move through hisday with the armor he needs to
fight this fight that men are upagainst in their day-to-day
lives, are up against in theirday-to-day lives.
(05:44):
So many people have been blessedby your book, katie, and the
people that have won the booksfrom my drawings are now buying
books and giving copies to theirfriends who are not married,
and some of them who have beenmarried for 20 years, and they
just keep coming back, jordan,that book, that book, provide
the armor, that book.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're just like, okay,
(06:05):
jordan, I get that book, providethe armor, that book.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're just like, okay,
jordan, I get it, like, yeah,just go to Amazon, put it in
your cart and get it tomorrowbecause you don't want to delay.
But with that, I want, katie, Iwant you to jump in and tell us
, like what was going on in yourlife that really prompted you
to put this book together,because it is a daily devotional
.
There's enough in here for anentire year to pray for your
(06:28):
spouse.
So what kind of inspired this.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, sure.
So my story actually starts along time ago, in the late 1900s
, when I was a teenager and Iwas at a conference Well, it was
a week-long conferenceleadership training and really
trying to learn how to dive deepinto a prayer life.
And something that really keptcoming up for me that week was
(06:52):
that the Lord had a plan for mylife and if I was called to be
married, then God knew who itwas that I was going to marry
one day, and if that was thecase, then that meant that that
young man was out theresomewhere and, knowing how
difficult it was to be a teen atthat time even more difficult
these days, right and all thedifferent temptations and things
that he was up against I reallywanted to go to war.
(07:15):
And that was what I told theLord and what I tried to imagine
myself doing climbing into thetrenches, battling for my future
husband.
So I really decided to dedicatemyself that week to pray for
him and to pray for him often ona regular basis, and I started
to write these prayers down inthe form of letters to my future
(07:36):
husband.
So I go home from this retreatand I'm all on fire from the
Lord, and a few months later mydad left our family and
completely, I was completelywrecked, we were all completely
wrecked, and so much of what wasso difficult for that, besides
all of the obvious things, wasreally this understanding of
like I thought God had a planand I thought that if I was
(07:58):
doing all these things, you know, right, then things were going
to go great and really wondering, like, what does this mean for
me in my own life, you know,going forward in my own desires
for marriage.
So my heart was really hardenedin a lot of ways over the
course of the next several years, hardened like in this fear,
(08:18):
this fear of being let down,this fear of being rejected and
all these things.
Well, my dad would leave and hewould come back and leave and
come back over the course of twoyears and eventually my parents
, their divorce was finalized.
I was in college at this point.
I transferred to college atFranciscan University in
Steubenville and I had metreally early on this very
(08:43):
attractive, tall, dark, handsomeguy from Texas and we became
best friends.
We're spending all of this timetogether and, of course, all of
these feelings are bubbling upand for him it was super
exciting, for me it wasterrifying and even though, over
this process, I'm like in lovewith him but he keeps coming and
like telling me all thesethings that I wanted my whole
(09:04):
life to hear and I couldn'treceive it, I'm like, no, we're
not dating, we're not dating.
And eventually I was in prayerone night and I just felt like
this tug on my heart, like theLord was saying like it's not
really about trusting him andit's not.
This is not like a story abouta boy, this is a story about me.
This is our love story, katie.
So are you willing to trust meand take a step in letting your
(09:29):
heart be vulnerable both to meand to this young man?
So we started dating, workedthrough a lot of things in all
of those areas.
So, deep into our datingrelationship, it was pretty
clear that we were going to getmarried.
It was the summer during collegeand I was at home in Colorado,
where I'm originally from, andhe was in Texas.
We're on the phone one nighttalking about his experience of
(09:52):
conversion with the Lord, andhis experience in high school
was really different from mine.
He was really gifted inbasketball, he was super into
the party scene and all of thethings that came along with that
.
Until one night, he was in hisroom and he wasn't in prayer.
He wasn't thinking about God,and he describes it as if the
Holy Spirit came rushing intothe room and all of a sudden,
(10:12):
this 19 year old boy fell to hisknees, sobbing, crying, because
he was so overcome, for thefirst time, with the reality
that God loved him and thatGod's mercy was there for him.
So I asked him that night onthe phone what the date was of
his conversion.
He tells me his date in July.
I go over to my bookshelf andpull out my prayer journals from
that same week, and it was thesame week that I was at that
(10:35):
leadership week that I decidedthat I wanted to go to work
praying for my future spouse,praying for very specific things
, like I had a laundry list Ifit's this, this, this, this and
this that he's struggling with,and it was word for word, his
list.
And we were just so overwhelmedthat night with like this gift
that this is what God does, likemillions of times every day.
(10:56):
Right, we pray, god hears us,he answers us, but we don't
always necessarily get to seethe ways that he's doing that
and that he's working Um, andthere was just this chance that
he gave us to see, like yearsbefore, how he had been active
and he had been moving in ourlife.
So it was a really beautiful umexperience for both of us.
Well, then we ended up gettingmarried and probably like six or
(11:19):
seven years later I was givinga talk to a mom's group and I'm
telling a story and they did Qand a after and this lady raised
her hand and she's like how doyou pray for your husband now?
And I was like, oh no, hemarried me, so he's probably
fine now or something.
I don't know.
All these years that I'm beggingGod, pouring out my heart and
(11:39):
like in the trenches and in myown pain, but this is what's
giving me hope and all that.
And now I'm like God bless Mark.
So I was really convicted as Ileft and in the weeks that
followed, what does this looklike for me now?
And a friend had taught me thispractice of praying God's word
over the people that we love,claiming God's promises using
(12:00):
his desires.
So I started taking thispractice and going back to
praying for my husband reallyintensely and praying a
scripture passage for him dailyand then writing journaling of
how I was hoping that the Lordwould give him the graces from
that, and so that's where thebook came from.
It's my own prayer, it's my ownscripture passages that I pray
(12:22):
for him, my own kind of desireswithin that and put together
within provide the armorbattling, battling for our
spouse.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Wow, katie, there's so much there to that story.
The Lord just works in suchawesome ways.
I had the chills when I waslike, wait, what he had, his
like conversion to Jesus, whenyou were at that conference and
promised to pray for your futurehusband and all the things that
(12:52):
he might be struggling with atthe time.
And that's exactly what Markwas struggling with at the time,
and you guys were in totallyseparate areas.
That is just how he works.
It's so beautiful that you wereable to realize that together
and have that gift of knowingthat God was at work.
(13:12):
But I kind of rewind because I'mlike a parent of a teen, right.
I've got a almost 19 year old,a 13 year old and I'm going okay
, wait, and I'm thinking back tomy own teen years and I'm like
I was not praying for my futurehusband.
I think I was so busy chasinghim down and looking for him and
trying to find him on abasketball court or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Oh yeah, I think I was doing that too.
I was just praying also.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
That's a big deal, but I think I watched a video
that you did.
You've recorded so many talks,you and Mark, about your story.
It's so beautiful that you'resharing it across all these
networks, and I think it was onEWTN that I heard you talking
about this and how you know youweren't alone.
You weren't some like odd girlthat was, you know, unpopular
(13:59):
and over in the corner just onyour knees praying all the time
as a teenager, but you reallyhad a strong group of Christian
girlfriends and were part oflike a youth group right In your
teen years, and so this wassomething that you and your
girlfriends talked about, right,yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Right, yeah, it was a huge thing for us, and so our
mutual friend, nikki, who you'vehad on the show before she and
one other friend was the maintrio that we would really pray
for one another's future spousesalso.
So we're we're just desiringthat so much and I think that
was one of the greatestblessings within all of that was
(14:38):
just this knowing somebody elsethat wanted my holiness so
deeply, and I think that that'swhat we need in our friendships
and in our community so much.
And then in those moments whereI was really struggling and I
was really in a lot of pain, butalso like struggling with
answering questions with theLord and what he was doing and
if he was there, like these arethe friends that were dragging
(15:00):
me to Jesus in the times that Ididn't know how to get there on
my own.
So incredible, incredible giftof how God works through other
people as well.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And I love that you had the support of attending
youth group as a teen.
And I think you know sometimesin parenting we can get so busy
with the sports and the danceteams and, you know, check in
the box and run into church onSunday, but not really helping
our kids engage in a communityof like minded teens that are
(15:33):
going to build them up in theirfaith and help them to resist
the temptations of of datinglife and all the things that the
internet and social media andall those things.
And so I love that back in thelate 1900s you were in this
group.
I love that.
But also you had a little umyes no, right you.
(15:58):
You talked with your girlfriendsabout your.
What was it?
Htb.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Oh, our HTB, yes, our husbands to be husband, to be
shortened to HTB.
So as we would write theseletters, we always wrote them to
our HTB, dear HTB, yes.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That is the cutest thing and sometimes, you know,
as parents, I feel like we'recalled to speak the language of
our kids a bit right.
(16:36):
Right Is to pray for their W toTB, their wife, to be their
husband, to be right, becausethat orients them towards
something bigger for theirfuture.
That this isn't just about thehere and now and and meeting our
needs in in this moment, butthat we really need to be
(16:57):
mindful about asking God toguide us to who he wants us to
spend our life with if we'recalled to marriage.
And so I just find that such asweet little spot in your story
that, like as teen girls, youwere writing letters to your
(17:17):
HTBs and that you were talkingabout this amongst yourselves
and that it wasn't weird ornobody like put you down forward
or said like oh, that's soridiculous, you know, but that
you just kept this little firegoing with some faith and
courage that, like, this wasgoing to do something later on.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Right, right.
I think sometimes I hear toofrom people, especially as young
women especially, get older andare single and maybe in their
20s and 30s and things like that, and the questioning maybe, if
this practice is maybe not agood one in the sense of like,
is it making us obsess too muchor think too much about you know
(17:59):
one ideal or whatever?
And I really feel like I meanthat can be the case, like if
you take anything too far, rightto any kind of extreme, but I
don't think that the rightanswer is ever less prayer, that
really surrendering to the Lord, and what my experience was of
it was the more that I that Iprayed for wanting like a really
(18:20):
, really amazing man and reallyexpressing my desires in that
way, and the more that I hadthat at the forefront of where
my standards were and all thosekinds of things.
I had to ask myself am I thekind of girl that a guy like
that would be looking for andthat he would be hoping for, and
things like that.
And so that's a beautiful thingabout prayer, whether it's in
(18:42):
this category or if it ispraying for your spouse or
praying for somebody who's likethe most annoying person that
you know, or really frustratingto you is that the I feel like
I've just come to realize thisin the last few years that the
Lord's been like, okay, it's notthat you're getting what you
want, like if you're saying thatyou know, if it's quote unquote
(19:02):
working, then I'm praying foranother person.
The fruit of us knowing if we'redoing it right and doing it
well is not if somebody else ischanging, it's if we are, and so
prayer will always transform usand it will always help us to
be the people that we want to be.
It'll orient our thoughts andour plans and our desires and
the things that we're lookingfor in our future.
(19:23):
Our entire day will bereoriented to the heart of the
Lord, and so that's really, Ithink, the core of whether
you're praying for your futurespouse, whether you're praying
for your spouse that you aremarried to, just wanting it all
to be aligned with God's glory,and taking a practice like that
(19:43):
really just kind of putseverything in its place.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yes and I think you even say that at the beginning
of this amazing book is thatthis is about praying for your
spouse, but it's going to bringyou closer to the Lord.
It's really about you changingyour heart, and that's a prayer
that I've had to pray for years.
Is Lord, soften my hearttowards this man, right?
(20:10):
And so your message about like,hey, this isn't about this guy
or this isn't about your dad,this is about you being willing
to receive me in fullness Rightand to move forward with this
person that I've put in yourlife with full trust that this
(20:30):
is my will for you.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right, right, yep, yeah, absolutely, absolutely yes
.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, I have my own story of kind of abandonment and
trauma, because when I wasmarried in my twenties, my
spouse decided he was going toleave after three months of
marriage.
And so when you talk about, youknow, having a little bit of
like oh, I'm not sure he seemsgreat and like, lord, I know you
meant for me to be married, butlike, ooh, it's hard to like,
(20:59):
fully open myself to this personand to share myself with them.
That is something that we haveto run to God for.
And we have to condition ourkids to remember that no person
is going to change your abilityto trust.
It's only this divinerelationship with Jesus that can
(21:19):
really soften you to openyourself up again to the
fullness of love, which alsomeans the risk of pain and hurt
too.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yep, that's so true.
Nobody knows that kind ofsuffering and hurt and rejection
and all of those things betterthan the Lord, either right,
like when we unite all of thosethings better than the Lord,
either right, like we unite allof those things to him.
And he has been through all ofthat heartbreak and it's a
comforting thing to know thatJesus cries with us in our fear
and in our wounds also, and thathe doesn't want to leave us
(21:54):
there either.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yes, amen to that.
Well, I know you do retreats,also for mothers and daughters,
so tell us a little bit aboutlike what you share with moms in
these retreats, about just kindof forming your, your daughter,
in the faith and and developing, helping your daughter to
develop a prayer life at a youngage, and doing that in a way
(22:18):
that's like cool and receptivefor them versus like oh no,
she's making me do another oneof those things she thinks is
good for me.
What kinds of?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
things do you?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
talk about in these retreats, Right.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So the one that I do is very like I'll go sometimes
to speak at mother-daughterevents, but the one that I run
specifically is amother-daughter retreat that's
about purity and chastity.
So actually it's funny you saidthat because one time I was
doing a retreat in Florida and Ialways start by trying to tell
(22:51):
the girls like this is not goingto be as painful as you think
it's going to be, Trust me,Trust me, it's not going to hurt
that bad.
So I'm telling, I'm trying tosoften it right from the get-go.
And there's this mom anddaughter sitting in the front
row and I'm like I know, andit's okay.
I don't think any of you werelike, oh, my goodness, Friday
night, what I really want to dois go on a retreat with my mom
and talk about sexuality.
And this girl looks at her momand she's like what?
(23:15):
Like I ran out of place?
And her mom, like didn't evenflinch, she just stood in there
smiling, like yeah, this poorgirl had no idea why they were
there.
I was like, oh well, now youknow, welcome, it's going to be
great.
Yeah, it was fabulous.
So, really, talking about thepurity, chastity message, always
(23:35):
anything about, you know,sexuality and like what the Lord
desires for us, about, you know, sexuality and like what the
Lord desires for us.
Really, the majority of theretreat is about not a what but
a who, and it really is allabout the Lord and all of these
things that are really hard, andwhether it's teachings on
sexuality that are really hard,or when you're in a relationship
and temptations are really hardor whatever.
(23:56):
You have to know why, and yourwhy has to be a who, and so we
talk about that a lot.
I mean kind of everything thatwe've been talking about already
up to this point, just aboutthe Lord desiring so deeply for
their hearts and having a planthat is for their good, and that
he wired them in a very uniqueand beautiful way and he knows
that better than they do, andall those kinds of things.
(24:18):
And then, with that as theframework, we go into the
message of sexuality and how Godmade it, and he actually loves
sexuality because he created it.
He could have done cabbagepatch, he could have done stork,
he could have done you know allthese things.
But this is what God designedand it's because it's holy,
which means that we are supposedto become holier because of
(24:41):
sexuality within the confines ofhow the Lord has gifted it to
us within marriage.
So we go through all of thosekinds of things and I'll say all
the weird words, the awkwardthings, and then the mothers and
daughters get to sit theretogether and then and I, you
know like have a systematic waythat I've been doing this for 20
(25:03):
years of giving TASA detox andthe moms don't have to come up
with like all the framework orwhatever, but then they get to
have discussion afterwards.
So my favorite part is justwatching the walls come down and
as the retreat goes on and yousee the walls of tension and
they start sitting closertogether and tears will flow and
(25:26):
there's this safe place to askthe questions that they've had
on their hearts but didn't knowhow to bring up and all of that
sort of thing.
And then at the end we'll dowith the girls an opportunity to
make a commitment to give theirhearts to Jesus.
We have these little boxes thatgo with kind of the theme of
our heart throughout the wholething and then they can give
(25:48):
that box, set it at the feet ofan image of Jesus and the
symbolism of giving him theirheart.
Then the next morning the dadscome and join as a surprise and
we have all those boxes gatheredand they put a ring.
And we have all those boxesgathered and they put a ring
inside of that box.
We used to do like puritychastity rings, but now we've
kind of changed just somethingthat is something that they love
(26:09):
, that they would wear, that'stheir style.
It doesn't have to go on theirring finger, but just this
symbol of them walking towhatever God has for them
together.
So the dads have the box and themoms and dads write a letter uh
, their hopes for that their,their daughter will choose.
And then they actually ask thequestion like will you let me
walk on this journey with you?
(26:31):
Um, I promise I will alwayskeep your heart in mind, but is
this something that we can dotogether?
So dads are crying, girls arecrying, moms are crying, I'm
crying, everybody's crying.
It's just this really beautifulmoment, though Spouse selection
historically, across cultures,almost universally, has been a
(26:56):
family affair.
Always, when you look at thehistory of dating and finding
who you're going to marry, thatalways, until the 1940s, 50s,
was it really like kind of goingout on your own without any
involvement from your familywhatsoever.
So it's, it's just a beautifulthing to to be able to be open
and to talk about these thingsand, um, to give our kids the
desires of our heart and letthem, you know, therefore, have
(27:19):
the information to make thedecisions that that they're
they're going to make you knowas they go forward.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Bringing it back to the family.
I love that.
Instead of it being a tabootopic and instead of being like
hey rely on the school to teachyou about that.
Your body and you know thechoices that you make and where
that comes from.
You're saying like no, let's,I'll be your guide.
Maybe you didn't have thatyourself as a parent.
(27:48):
I know you know.
Growing up I don't rememberhaving these talks with my
parents and I did.
I guess I don't recall it, youknow, and I think our parents
relied a lot on the school tohave their you know their
maturity talks with us in sixthgrade and that somehow we're
going to get the message that itis important to save ourselves
(28:10):
for marriage and that Goddesires this, because there's
something so much greater instore for us.
That, yes, yes and that savingourselves is like worth it.
And so, katie, I'm sure you'veheard so many parents just um,
talk about the grief of theirown choices.
(28:30):
Oh yes, as you know, teen girlsand boys and wishing that they
could kind of like, uh, that youknow, have a do over.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
But I always tell parents you know in parenting we
have a second chance.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
We have a chance to kind of do our own life over
differently by parenting ourkids in different and beautiful
ways that maybe weren't affordedto us, and so I love that
you're giving parents thisopportunity and you're taking
the silliness out of it andyou're taking the fear out of it
and you're saying, like purityand chastity is a cool thing.
(29:11):
This is like something that isso beautiful to strive for, and
that it doesn't have to be weird.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right, yeah, no, absolutely.
And yeah, we can look at thebeauty of our Christian faith.
Right Is that the Lord willalways bring a greater good out
of every evil if we let him.
So the biggest, best example ofthat is the cross that God died
, and because of that we all getto live the worst thing that
ever happened in history.
So, you know, a lot of timeswhen I'm talking with parents
(29:45):
and things, it is like this deepshame and this regret and these
things that make it so hard forthem to bring these things up.
But the Lord again, he doesn'twant us to live out of our
wounds and he can bringsomething so powerful and so
beautiful even out of ourbiggest mistakes, out of our
biggest regrets in our life.
And and also I mean, just asyou said, something that we talk
(30:05):
about a lot when I'm withparents, especially in this
setting um, I'll do like onetalk that's just for parents,
Like this is the pep talk, justthe moms, like the girls are off
doing something else, Like wecan do this, you can do this,
the Lord picked you for thischild, and all of those things.
But the hardest part, I think,is that, yeah, we don't.
I don't know anybody.
That's like I.
My mom did it perfectly.
(30:27):
It was so great it was, so Ijust want to do it exactly like
my parents did.
I have this total blueprintthat's laid out for me, Right.
And so for us, we want to dobetter, and then our hope is
that we'll do a really great joband then our kids will also do
better, Like we want our kids tobe better and we want them to
do better than us, and so thatthey'll have that.
(30:47):
But they will have a blueprintof where to start.
But yes, it should be.
I always say like it's, itshould not be the talk, it
should be the talks.
These are things that we talkabout and it's.
It's going to be uncomfortableand your kids never going to be
like, oh, pour me a spot of teaand let's talk some more and and
really enjoy these kinds ofconversations.
But it's, it's so important andit's so important, as you said,
(31:10):
not for it to be taboo, for itto be something that we can
genuinely.
We talk about these things.
This is what we do in our house.
We see it and we talk about it,we discuss it.
So it's really, it's reallyrich.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And you go back to the source right.
You don't say this is just whatwe think, as Mark and Katie,
but this is actually God's planfor this topic right For
sexuality, for marriage andfamily life and we're going back
to the Bible Like what?
What is actually said inscripture about about this.
So it's not coming from us.
(31:44):
We're just following God's planfor our lives, and so that's
something that we hand on tothem is here's your Bible,
here's you've got a routine ofgoing to church and being part
of your church community andyour faith life.
And so if we talk about it athome and we bring faith and
morals into our day-to-day lifein the home which is what we're
(32:04):
called to do as parents is bethe primary educators of faith
and morals for our children,which is what develops their
character.
You know, this is just somethingthat they pass on to their kids
and they go oh, yeah, Okay,we're at that age where we need
to talk about your body and youknow and, and what that's used
for, and and how to honoryourself and honor God through
(32:27):
how you use your body and andall of the relationships and it
just becomes like a common, likewell, of course you would talk
about this because this is apart of your life.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yes, yes, yep.
It's a huge thing and when youreally understand it, you dive
in deep into what the teachingis.
It's so easy to see that it'snot.
We tend to think of it as likeno, no, no, no, no, here's all
the things that you can't do.
But it's yes, it is yes, it'ssaying a yes to this incredible,
beautiful gift that God hascreated, and all of the things
(32:57):
that people get mad about, umChristians disagreeing in in the
realm of of sexuality.
When you really understand whatit is, then it all.
Then it suddenly makes senseLike, okay, the church is just
mean and judgmental and allthese things.
It's really because it's sogood, it's so beautiful and we
just want to protect that and tolet people have the opportunity
to receive that giftedness fromthe Lord.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yes, oh, so good.
Well, speaking of daughters anddads, and the whole nine, like
I want to circle back to this,this praying for our spouses,
and talk about the battle thatmen are up against.
I mean, when you're talking towomen about praying for their
spouses, and you know what it isthat their, their husbands, are
(33:44):
dealing with.
I mean, what are you hearingout there Like?
What is the battle about?
And what's what's this battlethat we've been warned about
from day one, that that men aregoing to be under?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I think there's .
There's so much of it that iswrapped up in um, where we find
our worth and where we find ouridentity, and that sounds like
it's something that's really,really cliche, but cliches are
cliche because they're like areal thing, and I find that
(34:16):
there's so much for all of us,right, but for men in a very
particular way, of where theyfind their value.
And then where they find theirvalue in how they are caring for
their family, where they findtheir value within their work,
within their success, withintheir finances, within the way
that others view them all ofthese like quantitative ways but
(34:37):
ultimately, where they findtheir value is that they are in
a, they are a beloved son of God, and if we really, if we all
really really got that, wewouldn't have, we wouldn't sin,
we wouldn't have problems, wewouldn't care about other people
, right?
Uh, but then I think what wesee in our husbands, um, and and
so many of the women that Italked to, is that that's what
(34:59):
creates so much stress andoverwhelm and pressure, and they
feel crushed by all of thesedifferent things.
And then, of of course, theywant for us to support, to be
supportive and to provide allthese things, and sometimes
we're really tired and we'rehaving a hard time and virtue
takes a lot of energy and thingslike that, and this is really
the best way that we can supportthem right Is praying into what
(35:23):
God says about them, who hesays that they are, and asking
that the Lord will protect themand guard them within that.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So good, yes, I'm going to read something from my
little journal today, because Iread page 239 today in your book
, called For His Hands, train myHands for Battle.
Okay, and so I want to readthis little excerpt that you put
in there from john eldridge'swild at heart, and it says there
(35:56):
are three desires I findwritten so deeply into my heart
I know now can no longerdisregard with them without
losing my soul.
I searched the pages ofliterature, I listened carefully
to many, many men and I amconvinced these desires are
universal, a clue intomasculinity itself.
(36:17):
They may be misplaced,forgotten or misdirected, but in
the heart of every man is adesperate desire for a battle to
fight, an adventure to live anda beauty to rescue.
And I said Lord, help Josh,battle with an intense reliance
(36:38):
on you in every moment.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That was just my simple little prayer this
morning.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, but that hits right that within every man.
They desire to have a battle tofight, an adventure to live and
a beauty to rescue Woo.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Right, yeah, I have goosebumps whenever I think that
my husband loves that book andloves that phrase.
It's like, yes, it resonates sodeeply.
Yes, with, with men and for allof the things that they desire
are kind of surrounding,surrounding that, and I love
that prayer Like that's.
(37:19):
When I really got it, you readthat it really is just so simple
and such a great way to uniteyour heart with what the Lord
desires for them, right.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yes, and the scripture that you put on that
page, yourself, as the author ofthis book, is this Psalm 144.1.
Blessed be the Lord, my rock,who trained my hands for battle
my fingers for war.
Yeah, katie, thanks for sharingyour heart with us in every page
(37:52):
.
Y'all, if you are watching thison YouTube and you ever get a
chance to go to one of her talksor retreats or meet her in
person, this is just going toresonate even deeper with you
because, katie, you've just beenso faithful and obedient to
God's nudge to just openyourself, to entrust that what
(38:16):
he puts on your heart isn't justfor you, but it's for us.
It's something that has reallyblessed us deeply.
It is blessing so many menaround the world, and so thank
you for the work and thededication it takes to write a
book like this.
Thank you for just trusting theLord in the process.
(38:40):
That, like, I don't know.
You know where this will go,but I'm just answering that
little call from that woman whosaid but what now?
Now that you got the guy, whatare you doing to pray for him?
And let's pray for her that shehas?
the courage to ask her aquestion that prompted this
(39:00):
whole thing.
The Lord works in such awesomeways.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yes, yes true and my favorite part, um, I mean every
time that that you and I talkabout it is, and anybody who's
who's reading it or whatever islike we get to be in this battle
together and knowing that thereare other people that are
praying with me, that um arepraying.
You know we're praying for eachother, that we're having this
desire, that we are this wholeyou know army of women, and so
(39:29):
I'm always just so, so blessedand so grateful for you also
spreading the word of about thebook and about you know, this
practice of praying, and I'm soblessed to get to be in that
battle with you, jordan.
So, thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Thank you.
Thank you for helping us toprovide the armor, because it's
not our role to fight the fightfor our husbands.
God made them for this fight,he made them for adventure and
to have a beauty to rescue, andwe think it's important for us
also to pray for our sons andour daughters right, and the
future spouses that they'regoing to meet, and to start
(40:05):
doing that from day one.
You know, I wish I would haveknown about this years ago,
because I would have startedpraying for my kids then that
they would align themselves withwho God wants for them to spend
the rest of their lives with,to raise children with, in this
crazy world that he's such a bigpart of.
And so that's something that wecan do now is we can continue
(40:30):
to pray for our spouse on adaily basis.
We can pray for our kids andtheir spouses and mostly to just
pray that God's will will bedone right in our life.
So, thank you, katie, so muchfor being part of this, this
show and this community.
(40:50):
Uh, we just love you and yourfamily and all that you're doing
.
And uh, guys, be sure to pickup a copy of her book provide
the armor by Katie Hartfield andand check her out online too.
So Katie can be found atwomaninloveorg.
(41:11):
She can also be found at if youGoogle, she shall be called
woman.
All right, katie, it's.
It's just been wonderful tohave you with us, and we'll
catch you on another episode ofour show real soon.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Great, thank you so much for having me, Jordan.
Hey guys, welcome back to our show.
Thanks for your feedbackregarding our podcast.
You know I've had people comeup to me at church and out at
the grocery store and be likehey, Jordan, thanks for doing
that episode with your husband,the one where he talks about
being the spiritual leader ofyour family.
That was super helpful for me.
It helps to have people shareour episode with people in their
(00:25):
small groups and and friendsand neighbors and all of that.
So thank you for doing that.
Now you've also told me thatyou've got caught, uh, binging
some of our episodes and goingdown rabbit holes, and you know
what.
I just think that's a okay.
This is a free resource forparents and grandparents and it
(00:46):
would not be possible for us topump out these weekly episodes
without the support of ouramazing donors.
So if you are listening and youhave, at any point in your life
, donated to this organizationover the past 15 years, Thank
you so much.
You are absolutely helping usto get this message out of being
(01:10):
intentional parents whoprioritize their faith and their
family in life to justthousands of different families
across the globe.
So thank you so much for yourgenerosity and let's just dive
into today's episode.
I got a super special guest onour show today and I'm just kind
(01:31):
of leaving her hanging overthere while I do my intro.
So I just want to welcome tothe show Katie Hartfield.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you so much for having me, Jordan.
It's always super fun to chatwith you.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh man, we became fast friends last year around
this time when I flew down toHouston to be a part of a
women's production that you puttogether, a video series for
Catholic women called she ShallBe Called Woman.
So thank you for inviting me togive talks on humility and
(02:09):
universal mortification andputting on the mind of Christ.
Those are big topics but Itried, in Jordan's style, to
just bring them to the audiencein all practicality and make it
something that was digestiblefor people to be able to really
apply to their day-to-day life.
(02:30):
So thanks again for having meon that amazing series that is
launched and done better thanany of us even imagined, right.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, oh my goodness, we've been so humbled by the
impact and, of course, I wanteveryone to know, like Jordan is
like the sweetheart of theprogram.
I love hearing especially we'vetalked about this from these
ladies that are like much older.
They're like I've never heardthese things before.
I've been into my faith for solong and I've done all the
(03:01):
things, but these are thingsthat like these old lady mind
blown.
So, uh, it's just been soincredible hearing the stories
and the impact that you've had,and I was just so grateful that
the Holy spirit brought ustogether.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Amen to that sister.
Well, you guys, katie is one ofus.
She is married.
She and Mark have been marriedfor years and they have four
kids and uh, and so she's in thetrenches with us.
She knows what it's like to bemarried and raise kids in this
day and age, and she is a verygifted speaker, which you'll
(03:35):
find out.
But she travels all over thecountry speaking to different
groups of Christians, andspecifically Catholics, on
everything, everything justwomen's issues, girls, teenagers
, love stories and just fallingin love with Jesus and
developing a prayer life.
(03:55):
So she's got a wealth ofexperience to share with us
today.
But I want to hone in onsomething specific, and that is
this most recent book that sheauthored, and when I visited
Katie, we were talking aboutthis book and I hadn't heard of
it before, and so I got a copyof it and I started using it
(04:17):
daily in my prayer life, and soif you're watching on YouTube,
you'll see me holding this up.
It's called Provide the ArmorDaily Scriptures to Pray Over
your Future or Present Spouse,and so I have been praying with
this book every day for about 10months, and it has radically
(04:39):
changed my relationship with myhusband because it gave me a
little nugget of scripture atthe beginning and then a good
prayer prompt and a reflectionand a personal story that Katie
wrote that I could relate to,and so I wanted Katie to be on
the show to tell us first of all, kind of like, what prompted
(05:00):
her to write this book, and thento just understand the impact
she's having on so many women,because if you've been to my
talks, you will know that I givethis book out right when you
put your name in a hat.
I do drawings and I hand thesebooks out to women and I tell
them how much it has changed myrelationship with my spouse and
(05:23):
helped me grow closer to myhusband in the way that I'm able
to do something every singleday that really builds him up
and helps him move through hisday with the armor he needs to
fight this fight that men are upagainst in their day-to-day
lives, are up against in theirday-to-day lives.
(05:44):
So many people have been blessedby your book, katie, and the
people that have won the booksfrom my drawings are now buying
books and giving copies to theirfriends who are not married,
and some of them who have beenmarried for 20 years, and they
just keep coming back, jordan,that book, that book, provide
the armor, that book.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're just like, okay,
(06:05):
jordan, I get that book, providethe armor, that book.
So if you're listening rightnow and you're just like, okay,
jordan, I get it, like, yeah,just go to Amazon, put it in
your cart and get it tomorrowbecause you don't want to delay.
But with that, I want, katie, Iwant you to jump in and tell us
, like what was going on in yourlife that really prompted you
to put this book together,because it is a daily devotional
.
There's enough in here for anentire year to pray for your
(06:28):
spouse.
So what kind of inspired this.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, sure.
So my story actually starts along time ago, in the late 1900s
, when I was a teenager and Iwas at a conference Well, it was
a week-long conferenceleadership training and really
trying to learn how to dive deepinto a prayer life.
And something that really keptcoming up for me that week was
(06:52):
that the Lord had a plan for mylife and if I was called to be
married, then God knew who itwas that I was going to marry
one day, and if that was thecase, then that meant that that
young man was out theresomewhere and, knowing how
difficult it was to be a teen atthat time even more difficult
these days, right and all thedifferent temptations and things
that he was up against I reallywanted to go to war.
(07:15):
And that was what I told theLord and what I tried to imagine
myself doing climbing into thetrenches, battling for my future
husband.
So I really decided to dedicatemyself that week to pray for
him and to pray for him often ona regular basis, and I started
to write these prayers down inthe form of letters to my future
(07:36):
husband.
So I go home from this retreatand I'm all on fire from the
Lord, and a few months later mydad left our family and
completely, I was completelywrecked, we were all completely
wrecked, and so much of what wasso difficult for that, besides
all of the obvious things, wasreally this understanding of
like I thought God had a planand I thought that if I was
(07:58):
doing all these things, you know, right, then things were going
to go great and really wondering, like, what does this mean for
me in my own life, you know,going forward in my own desires
for marriage.
So my heart was really hardenedin a lot of ways over the
course of the next several years, hardened like in this fear,
(08:18):
this fear of being let down,this fear of being rejected and
all these things.
Well, my dad would leave and hewould come back and leave and
come back over the course of twoyears and eventually my parents
, their divorce was finalized.
I was in college at this point.
I transferred to college atFranciscan University in
Steubenville and I had metreally early on this very
(08:43):
attractive, tall, dark, handsomeguy from Texas and we became
best friends.
We're spending all of this timetogether and, of course, all of
these feelings are bubbling upand for him it was super
exciting, for me it wasterrifying and even though, over
this process, I'm like in lovewith him but he keeps coming and
like telling me all thesethings that I wanted my whole
(09:04):
life to hear and I couldn'treceive it, I'm like, no, we're
not dating, we're not dating.
And eventually I was in prayerone night and I just felt like
this tug on my heart, like theLord was saying like it's not
really about trusting him andit's not.
This is not like a story abouta boy, this is a story about me.
This is our love story, katie.
So are you willing to trust meand take a step in letting your
(09:29):
heart be vulnerable both to meand to this young man?
So we started dating, workedthrough a lot of things in all
of those areas.
So, deep into our datingrelationship, it was pretty
clear that we were going to getmarried.
It was the summer during collegeand I was at home in Colorado,
where I'm originally from, andhe was in Texas.
We're on the phone one nighttalking about his experience of
(09:52):
conversion with the Lord, andhis experience in high school
was really different from mine.
He was really gifted inbasketball, he was super into
the party scene and all of thethings that came along with that
.
Until one night, he was in hisroom and he wasn't in prayer.
He wasn't thinking about God,and he describes it as if the
Holy Spirit came rushing intothe room and all of a sudden,
(10:12):
this 19 year old boy fell to hisknees, sobbing, crying, because
he was so overcome, for thefirst time, with the reality
that God loved him and thatGod's mercy was there for him.
So I asked him that night onthe phone what the date was of
his conversion.
He tells me his date in July.
I go over to my bookshelf andpull out my prayer journals from
that same week, and it was thesame week that I was at that
(10:35):
leadership week that I decidedthat I wanted to go to work
praying for my future spouse,praying for very specific things
, like I had a laundry list Ifit's this, this, this, this and
this that he's struggling with,and it was word for word, his
list.
And we were just so overwhelmedthat night with like this gift
that this is what God does, likemillions of times every day.
(10:56):
Right, we pray, god hears us,he answers us, but we don't
always necessarily get to seethe ways that he's doing that
and that he's working Um, andthere was just this chance that
he gave us to see, like yearsbefore, how he had been active
and he had been moving in ourlife.
So it was a really beautiful umexperience for both of us.
Well, then we ended up gettingmarried and probably like six or
(11:19):
seven years later I was givinga talk to a mom's group and I'm
telling a story and they did Qand a after and this lady raised
her hand and she's like how doyou pray for your husband now?
And I was like, oh no, hemarried me, so he's probably
fine now or something.
I don't know.
All these years that I'm beggingGod, pouring out my heart and
(11:39):
like in the trenches and in myown pain, but this is what's
giving me hope and all that.
And now I'm like God bless Mark.
So I was really convicted as Ileft and in the weeks that
followed, what does this looklike for me now?
And a friend had taught me thispractice of praying God's word
over the people that we love,claiming God's promises using
(12:00):
his desires.
So I started taking thispractice and going back to
praying for my husband reallyintensely and praying a
scripture passage for him dailyand then writing journaling of
how I was hoping that the Lordwould give him the graces from
that, and so that's where thebook came from.
It's my own prayer, it's my ownscripture passages that I pray
(12:22):
for him, my own kind of desireswithin that and put together
within provide the armorbattling, battling for our
spouse.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Wow, katie, there's so much there to that story.
The Lord just works in suchawesome ways.
I had the chills when I waslike, wait, what he had, his
like conversion to Jesus, whenyou were at that conference and
promised to pray for your futurehusband and all the things that
(12:52):
he might be struggling with atthe time.
And that's exactly what Markwas struggling with at the time,
and you guys were in totallyseparate areas.
That is just how he works.
It's so beautiful that you wereable to realize that together
and have that gift of knowingthat God was at work.
(13:12):
But I kind of rewind because I'mlike a parent of a teen, right.
I've got a almost 19 year old,a 13 year old and I'm going okay
, wait, and I'm thinking back tomy own teen years and I'm like
I was not praying for my futurehusband.
I think I was so busy chasinghim down and looking for him and
trying to find him on abasketball court or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Oh yeah, I think I was doing that too.
I was just praying also.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
That's a big deal, but I think I watched a video
that you did.
You've recorded so many talks,you and Mark, about your story.
It's so beautiful that you'resharing it across all these
networks, and I think it was onEWTN that I heard you talking
about this and how you know youweren't alone.
You weren't some like odd girlthat was, you know, unpopular
(13:59):
and over in the corner just onyour knees praying all the time
as a teenager, but you reallyhad a strong group of Christian
girlfriends and were part oflike a youth group right In your
teen years, and so this wassomething that you and your
girlfriends talked about, right,yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Right, yeah, it was a huge thing for us, and so our
mutual friend, nikki, who you'vehad on the show before she and
one other friend was the maintrio that we would really pray
for one another's future spousesalso.
So we're we're just desiringthat so much and I think that
was one of the greatestblessings within all of that was
(14:38):
just this knowing somebody elsethat wanted my holiness so
deeply, and I think that that'swhat we need in our friendships
and in our community so much.
And then in those moments whereI was really struggling and I
was really in a lot of pain, butalso like struggling with
answering questions with theLord and what he was doing and
if he was there, like these arethe friends that were dragging
(15:00):
me to Jesus in the times that Ididn't know how to get there on
my own.
So incredible, incredible giftof how God works through other
people as well.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And I love that you had the support of attending
youth group as a teen.
And I think you know sometimesin parenting we can get so busy
with the sports and the danceteams and, you know, check in
the box and run into church onSunday, but not really helping
our kids engage in a communityof like minded teens that are
(15:33):
going to build them up in theirfaith and help them to resist
the temptations of of datinglife and all the things that the
internet and social media andall those things.
And so I love that back in thelate 1900s you were in this
group.
I love that.
But also you had a little umyes no, right you.
(15:58):
You talked with your girlfriendsabout your.
What was it?
Htb.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Oh, our HTB, yes, our husbands to be husband, to be
shortened to HTB.
So as we would write theseletters, we always wrote them to
our HTB, dear HTB, yes.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That is the cutest thing and sometimes, you know,
as parents, I feel like we'recalled to speak the language of
our kids a bit right.
(16:36):
Right Is to pray for their W toTB, their wife, to be their
husband, to be right, becausethat orients them towards
something bigger for theirfuture.
That this isn't just about thehere and now and and meeting our
needs in in this moment, butthat we really need to be
(16:57):
mindful about asking God toguide us to who he wants us to
spend our life with if we'recalled to marriage.
And so I just find that such asweet little spot in your story
that, like as teen girls, youwere writing letters to your
(17:17):
HTBs and that you were talkingabout this amongst yourselves
and that it wasn't weird ornobody like put you down forward
or said like oh, that's soridiculous, you know, but that
you just kept this little firegoing with some faith and
courage that, like, this wasgoing to do something later on.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Right, right.
I think sometimes I hear toofrom people, especially as young
women especially, get older andare single and maybe in their
20s and 30s and things like that, and the questioning maybe, if
this practice is maybe not agood one in the sense of like,
is it making us obsess too muchor think too much about you know
(17:59):
one ideal or whatever?
And I really feel like I meanthat can be the case, like if
you take anything too far, rightto any kind of extreme, but I
don't think that the rightanswer is ever less prayer, that
really surrendering to the Lord, and what my experience was of
it was the more that I that Iprayed for wanting like a really
(18:20):
, really amazing man and reallyexpressing my desires in that
way, and the more that I hadthat at the forefront of where
my standards were and all thosekinds of things.
I had to ask myself am I thekind of girl that a guy like
that would be looking for andthat he would be hoping for, and
things like that.
And so that's a beautiful thingabout prayer, whether it's in
(18:42):
this category or if it ispraying for your spouse or
praying for somebody who's likethe most annoying person that
you know, or really frustratingto you is that the I feel like
I've just come to realize thisin the last few years that the
Lord's been like, okay, it's notthat you're getting what you
want, like if you're saying thatyou know, if it's quote unquote
(19:02):
working, then I'm praying foranother person.
The fruit of us knowing if we'redoing it right and doing it
well is not if somebody else ischanging, it's if we are, and so
prayer will always transform usand it will always help us to
be the people that we want to be.
It'll orient our thoughts andour plans and our desires and
the things that we're lookingfor in our future.
(19:23):
Our entire day will bereoriented to the heart of the
Lord, and so that's really, Ithink, the core of whether
you're praying for your futurespouse, whether you're praying
for your spouse that you aremarried to, just wanting it all
to be aligned with God's glory,and taking a practice like that
(19:43):
really just kind of putseverything in its place.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yes and I think you even say that at the beginning
of this amazing book is thatthis is about praying for your
spouse, but it's going to bringyou closer to the Lord.
It's really about you changingyour heart, and that's a prayer
that I've had to pray for years.
Is Lord, soften my hearttowards this man, right?
(20:10):
And so your message about like,hey, this isn't about this guy
or this isn't about your dad,this is about you being willing
to receive me in fullness Rightand to move forward with this
person that I've put in yourlife with full trust that this
(20:30):
is my will for you.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right, right, yep, yeah, absolutely, absolutely yes
.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, I have my own story of kind of abandonment and
trauma, because when I wasmarried in my twenties, my
spouse decided he was going toleave after three months of
marriage.
And so when you talk about, youknow, having a little bit of
like oh, I'm not sure he seemsgreat and like, lord, I know you
meant for me to be married, butlike, ooh, it's hard to like,
(20:59):
fully open myself to this personand to share myself with them.
That is something that we haveto run to God for.
And we have to condition ourkids to remember that no person
is going to change your abilityto trust.
It's only this divinerelationship with Jesus that can
(21:19):
really soften you to openyourself up again to the
fullness of love, which alsomeans the risk of pain and hurt
too.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yep, that's so true.
Nobody knows that kind ofsuffering and hurt and rejection
and all of those things betterthan the Lord, either right,
like when we unite all of thosethings better than the Lord,
either right, like we unite allof those things to him.
And he has been through all ofthat heartbreak and it's a
comforting thing to know thatJesus cries with us in our fear
and in our wounds also, and thathe doesn't want to leave us
(21:54):
there either.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yes, amen to that.
Well, I know you do retreats,also for mothers and daughters,
so tell us a little bit aboutlike what you share with moms in
these retreats, about just kindof forming your, your daughter,
in the faith and and developing, helping your daughter to
develop a prayer life at a youngage, and doing that in a way
(22:18):
that's like cool and receptivefor them versus like oh no,
she's making me do another oneof those things she thinks is
good for me.
What kinds of?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
things do you?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
talk about in these retreats, Right.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So the one that I do is very like I'll go sometimes
to speak at mother-daughterevents, but the one that I run
specifically is amother-daughter retreat that's
about purity and chastity.
So actually it's funny you saidthat because one time I was
doing a retreat in Florida and Ialways start by trying to tell
(22:51):
the girls like this is not goingto be as painful as you think
it's going to be, Trust me,Trust me, it's not going to hurt
that bad.
So I'm telling, I'm trying tosoften it right from the get-go.
And there's this mom anddaughter sitting in the front
row and I'm like I know, andit's okay.
I don't think any of you werelike, oh, my goodness, Friday
night, what I really want to dois go on a retreat with my mom
and talk about sexuality.
And this girl looks at her momand she's like what?
(23:15):
Like I ran out of place?
And her mom, like didn't evenflinch, she just stood in there
smiling, like yeah, this poorgirl had no idea why they were
there.
I was like, oh well, now youknow, welcome, it's going to be
great.
Yeah, it was fabulous.
So, really, talking about thepurity, chastity message, always
(23:35):
anything about, you know,sexuality and like what the Lord
desires for us, about, you know, sexuality and like what the
Lord desires for us.
Really, the majority of theretreat is about not a what but
a who, and it really is allabout the Lord and all of these
things that are really hard, andwhether it's teachings on
sexuality that are really hard,or when you're in a relationship
and temptations are really hardor whatever.
(23:56):
You have to know why, and yourwhy has to be a who, and so we
talk about that a lot.
I mean kind of everything thatwe've been talking about already
up to this point, just aboutthe Lord desiring so deeply for
their hearts and having a planthat is for their good, and that
he wired them in a very uniqueand beautiful way and he knows
that better than they do, andall those kinds of things.
(24:18):
And then, with that as theframework, we go into the
message of sexuality and how Godmade it, and he actually loves
sexuality because he created it.
He could have done cabbagepatch, he could have done stork,
he could have done you know allthese things.
But this is what God designedand it's because it's holy,
which means that we are supposedto become holier because of
(24:41):
sexuality within the confines ofhow the Lord has gifted it to
us within marriage.
So we go through all of thosekinds of things and I'll say all
the weird words, the awkwardthings, and then the mothers and
daughters get to sit theretogether and then and I, you
know like have a systematic waythat I've been doing this for 20
(25:03):
years of giving TASA detox andthe moms don't have to come up
with like all the framework orwhatever, but then they get to
have discussion afterwards.
So my favorite part is justwatching the walls come down and
as the retreat goes on and yousee the walls of tension and
they start sitting closertogether and tears will flow and
(25:26):
there's this safe place to askthe questions that they've had
on their hearts but didn't knowhow to bring up and all of that
sort of thing.
And then at the end we'll dowith the girls an opportunity to
make a commitment to give theirhearts to Jesus.
We have these little boxes thatgo with kind of the theme of
our heart throughout the wholething and then they can give
(25:48):
that box, set it at the feet ofan image of Jesus and the
symbolism of giving him theirheart.
Then the next morning the dadscome and join as a surprise and
we have all those boxes gatheredand they put a ring.
And we have all those boxesgathered and they put a ring
inside of that box.
We used to do like puritychastity rings, but now we've
kind of changed just somethingthat is something that they love
(26:09):
, that they would wear, that'stheir style.
It doesn't have to go on theirring finger, but just this
symbol of them walking towhatever God has for them
together.
So the dads have the box and themoms and dads write a letter uh
, their hopes for that their,their daughter will choose.
And then they actually ask thequestion like will you let me
walk on this journey with you?
(26:31):
Um, I promise I will alwayskeep your heart in mind, but is
this something that we can dotogether?
So dads are crying, girls arecrying, moms are crying, I'm
crying, everybody's crying.
It's just this really beautifulmoment, though Spouse selection
historically, across cultures,almost universally, has been a
(26:56):
family affair.
Always, when you look at thehistory of dating and finding
who you're going to marry, thatalways, until the 1940s, 50s,
was it really like kind of goingout on your own without any
involvement from your familywhatsoever.
So it's, it's just a beautifulthing to to be able to be open
and to talk about these thingsand, um, to give our kids the
desires of our heart and letthem, you know, therefore, have
(27:19):
the information to make thedecisions that that they're
they're going to make you knowas they go forward.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Bringing it back to the family.
I love that.
Instead of it being a tabootopic and instead of being like
hey rely on the school to teachyou about that.
Your body and you know thechoices that you make and where
that comes from.
You're saying like no, let's,I'll be your guide.
Maybe you didn't have thatyourself as a parent.
(27:48):
I know you know.
Growing up I don't rememberhaving these talks with my
parents and I did.
I guess I don't recall it, youknow, and I think our parents
relied a lot on the school tohave their you know their
maturity talks with us in sixthgrade and that somehow we're
going to get the message that itis important to save ourselves
(28:10):
for marriage and that Goddesires this, because there's
something so much greater instore for us.
That, yes, yes and that savingourselves is like worth it.
And so, katie, I'm sure you'veheard so many parents just um,
talk about the grief of theirown choices.
(28:30):
Oh yes, as you know, teen girlsand boys and wishing that they
could kind of like, uh, that youknow, have a do over.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
But I always tell parents you know in parenting we
have a second chance.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
We have a chance to kind of do our own life over
differently by parenting ourkids in different and beautiful
ways that maybe weren't affordedto us, and so I love that
you're giving parents thisopportunity and you're taking
the silliness out of it andyou're taking the fear out of it
and you're saying, like purityand chastity is a cool thing.
(29:11):
This is like something that isso beautiful to strive for, and
that it doesn't have to be weird.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right, yeah, no, absolutely.
And yeah, we can look at thebeauty of our Christian faith.
Right Is that the Lord willalways bring a greater good out
of every evil if we let him.
So the biggest, best example ofthat is the cross that God died
, and because of that we all getto live the worst thing that
ever happened in history.
So, you know, a lot of timeswhen I'm talking with parents
(29:45):
and things, it is like this deepshame and this regret and these
things that make it so hard forthem to bring these things up.
But the Lord again, he doesn'twant us to live out of our
wounds and he can bringsomething so powerful and so
beautiful even out of ourbiggest mistakes, out of our
biggest regrets in our life.
And and also I mean, just asyou said, something that we talk
(30:05):
about a lot when I'm withparents, especially in this
setting um, I'll do like onetalk that's just for parents,
Like this is the pep talk, justthe moms, like the girls are off
doing something else, Like wecan do this, you can do this,
the Lord picked you for thischild, and all of those things.
But the hardest part, I think,is that, yeah, we don't.
I don't know anybody.
That's like I.
My mom did it perfectly.
(30:27):
It was so great it was, so Ijust want to do it exactly like
my parents did.
I have this total blueprintthat's laid out for me, Right.
And so for us, we want to dobetter, and then our hope is
that we'll do a really great joband then our kids will also do
better, Like we want our kids tobe better and we want them to
do better than us, and so thatthey'll have that.
(30:47):
But they will have a blueprintof where to start.
But yes, it should be.
I always say like it's, itshould not be the talk, it
should be the talks.
These are things that we talkabout and it's.
It's going to be uncomfortableand your kids never going to be
like, oh, pour me a spot of teaand let's talk some more and and
really enjoy these kinds ofconversations.
But it's, it's so important andit's so important, as you said,
(31:10):
not for it to be taboo, for itto be something that we can
genuinely.
We talk about these things.
This is what we do in our house.
We see it and we talk about it,we discuss it.
So it's really, it's reallyrich.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And you go back to the source right.
You don't say this is just whatwe think, as Mark and Katie,
but this is actually God's planfor this topic right For
sexuality, for marriage andfamily life and we're going back
to the Bible Like what?
What is actually said inscripture about about this.
So it's not coming from us.
(31:44):
We're just following God's planfor our lives, and so that's
something that we hand on tothem is here's your Bible,
here's you've got a routine ofgoing to church and being part
of your church community andyour faith life.
And so if we talk about it athome and we bring faith and
morals into our day-to-day lifein the home which is what we're
(32:04):
called to do as parents is bethe primary educators of faith
and morals for our children,which is what develops their
character.
You know, this is just somethingthat they pass on to their kids
and they go oh, yeah, Okay,we're at that age where we need
to talk about your body and youknow and, and what that's used
for, and and how to honoryourself and honor God through
(32:27):
how you use your body and andall of the relationships and it
just becomes like a common, likewell, of course you would talk
about this because this is apart of your life.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yes, yes, yep.
It's a huge thing and when youreally understand it, you dive
in deep into what the teachingis.
It's so easy to see that it'snot.
We tend to think of it as likeno, no, no, no, no, here's all
the things that you can't do.
But it's yes, it is yes, it'ssaying a yes to this incredible,
beautiful gift that God hascreated, and all of the things
(32:57):
that people get mad about, umChristians disagreeing in in the
realm of of sexuality.
When you really understand whatit is, then it all.
Then it suddenly makes senseLike, okay, the church is just
mean and judgmental and allthese things.
It's really because it's sogood, it's so beautiful and we
just want to protect that and tolet people have the opportunity
to receive that giftedness fromthe Lord.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yes, oh, so good.
Well, speaking of daughters anddads, and the whole nine, like
I want to circle back to this,this praying for our spouses,
and talk about the battle thatmen are up against.
I mean, when you're talking towomen about praying for their
spouses, and you know what it isthat their, their husbands, are
(33:44):
dealing with.
I mean, what are you hearingout there Like?
What is the battle about?
And what's what's this battlethat we've been warned about
from day one, that that men aregoing to be under?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I think there's .
There's so much of it that iswrapped up in um, where we find
our worth and where we find ouridentity, and that sounds like
it's something that's really,really cliche, but cliches are
cliche because they're like areal thing, and I find that
(34:16):
there's so much for all of us,right, but for men in a very
particular way, of where theyfind their value.
And then where they find theirvalue in how they are caring for
their family, where they findtheir value within their work,
within their success, withintheir finances, within the way
that others view them all ofthese like quantitative ways but
(34:37):
ultimately, where they findtheir value is that they are in
a, they are a beloved son of God, and if we really, if we all
really really got that, wewouldn't have, we wouldn't sin,
we wouldn't have problems, wewouldn't care about other people
, right?
Uh, but then I think what wesee in our husbands, um, and and
so many of the women that Italked to, is that that's what
(34:59):
creates so much stress andoverwhelm and pressure, and they
feel crushed by all of thesedifferent things.
And then, of of course, theywant for us to support, to be
supportive and to provide allthese things, and sometimes
we're really tired and we'rehaving a hard time and virtue
takes a lot of energy and thingslike that, and this is really
the best way that we can supportthem right Is praying into what
(35:23):
God says about them, who hesays that they are, and asking
that the Lord will protect themand guard them within that.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So good, yes, I'm going to read something from my
little journal today, because Iread page 239 today in your book
, called For His Hands, train myHands for Battle.
Okay, and so I want to readthis little excerpt that you put
in there from john eldridge'swild at heart, and it says there
(35:56):
are three desires I findwritten so deeply into my heart
I know now can no longerdisregard with them without
losing my soul.
I searched the pages ofliterature, I listened carefully
to many, many men and I amconvinced these desires are
universal, a clue intomasculinity itself.
(36:17):
They may be misplaced,forgotten or misdirected, but in
the heart of every man is adesperate desire for a battle to
fight, an adventure to live anda beauty to rescue.
And I said Lord, help Josh,battle with an intense reliance
(36:38):
on you in every moment.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That was just my simple little prayer this
morning.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, but that hits right that within every man.
They desire to have a battle tofight, an adventure to live and
a beauty to rescue Woo.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Right, yeah, I have goosebumps whenever I think that
my husband loves that book andloves that phrase.
It's like, yes, it resonates sodeeply.
Yes, with, with men and for allof the things that they desire
are kind of surrounding,surrounding that, and I love
that prayer Like that's.
(37:19):
When I really got it, you readthat it really is just so simple
and such a great way to uniteyour heart with what the Lord
desires for them, right.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yes, and the scripture that you put on that
page, yourself, as the author ofthis book, is this Psalm 144.1.
Blessed be the Lord, my rock,who trained my hands for battle
my fingers for war.
Yeah, katie, thanks for sharingyour heart with us in every page
(37:52):
.
Y'all, if you are watching thison YouTube and you ever get a
chance to go to one of her talksor retreats or meet her in
person, this is just going toresonate even deeper with you
because, katie, you've just beenso faithful and obedient to
God's nudge to just openyourself, to entrust that what
(38:16):
he puts on your heart isn't justfor you, but it's for us.
It's something that has reallyblessed us deeply.
It is blessing so many menaround the world, and so thank
you for the work and thededication it takes to write a
book like this.
Thank you for just trusting theLord in the process.
(38:40):
That, like, I don't know.
You know where this will go,but I'm just answering that
little call from that woman whosaid but what now?
Now that you got the guy, whatare you doing to pray for him?
And let's pray for her that shehas?
the courage to ask her aquestion that prompted this
(39:00):
whole thing.
The Lord works in such awesomeways.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yes, yes true and my favorite part, um, I mean every
time that that you and I talkabout it is, and anybody who's
who's reading it or whatever islike we get to be in this battle
together and knowing that thereare other people that are
praying with me, that um arepraying.
You know we're praying for eachother, that we're having this
desire, that we are this wholeyou know army of women, and so
(39:29):
I'm always just so, so blessedand so grateful for you also
spreading the word of about thebook and about you know, this
practice of praying, and I'm soblessed to get to be in that
battle with you, jordan.
So, thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Thank you.
Thank you for helping us toprovide the armor, because it's
not our role to fight the fightfor our husbands.
God made them for this fight,he made them for adventure and
to have a beauty to rescue, andwe think it's important for us
also to pray for our sons andour daughters right, and the
future spouses that they'regoing to meet, and to start
(40:05):
doing that from day one.
You know, I wish I would haveknown about this years ago,
because I would have startedpraying for my kids then that
they would align themselves withwho God wants for them to spend
the rest of their lives with,to raise children with, in this
crazy world that he's such a bigpart of.
And so that's something that wecan do now is we can continue
(40:30):
to pray for our spouse on adaily basis.
We can pray for our kids andtheir spouses and mostly to just
pray that God's will will bedone right in our life.
So, thank you, katie, so muchfor being part of this, this
show and this community.
(40:50):
Uh, we just love you and yourfamily and all that you're doing
.
And uh, guys, be sure to pickup a copy of her book provide
the armor by Katie Hartfield andand check her out online too.
So Katie can be found atwomaninloveorg.
(41:11):
She can also be found at if youGoogle, she shall be called
woman.
All right, katie, it's.
It's just been wonderful tohave you with us, and we'll
catch you on another episode ofour show real soon.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Great, thank you so much for having me, Jordan.
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