Ep. #157: How to Prioritize Your Family Over Your Phone with Joey Odom {Rebroadcast}

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Have you ever caught yourself scrolling through your phone while your child tries desperately to get your attention? Or noticed an entire room of family members, all physically present but mentally elsewhere, faces illuminated by screens? You're not alone.

In this eye-opening conversation with Joey Odom, co-founder of ARO, we delve into the hidden crisis affecting modern families—the way our devices are systematically eroding our most precious connections.

We discuss:
• Missing life's important moments because of smartphone distraction
• Smartphones as adult "comfort objects" that actually isolate us rather than provide security
• The PID cycle: how proximity to our phones leads to interaction, then unhealthy dependence
• How establishing phone-free sacred times and places transforms family dynamics
• Four practical strategies to change your relationship with your phone

To learn more about ARO and their solution for families, visit goaro.com.

The Thriving Family Accelerator provides an easy, 3-step process to lower stress, parent as a united team, and enjoy a true friendship with your spouse & relationship with your kids. Sign up now for this live parent coaching with proven methods for positively engaging your family and redistributing the mental load. 
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
I don't know about you, butI've had this issue where my
kids are trying to get myattention and my face is in my
phone and I'm like, just aminute, I've just got to finish
up this one thing and then allof a sudden one minute turns
into 15 minutes, turns into 30minutes, and then they've

(00:23):
disappeared.
And when I realize I've totallyforgotten about them, the guilt
and shame just riddles me.
And I also have this issue atnight at home with my family.
Right, I come home from workand I come in the door and we
get dinner and we have dinnertogether as a family, and then

(00:43):
we're getting bedtime, stuffgoing and I'm ready to connect
with my husband and all of asudden he might be on his phone
in bed.
Right, he's either checking thenews or the weather for
tomorrow or scrolling socialmedia, and then I'm like, oh, I
shouldn't interrupt him.
I know he needs a littledowntime, but the connection
gets lost, and I know thathappens for him with me as well.

(01:07):
So recently I was at a holidaygathering with lots of family
members and we hadn't seen eachother in a long time, and I just
looked around the room and allof a sudden I noticed that every
single one of us had our facesdown in our phones.
We were not even connecting witheach other in the same room,

(01:29):
but all on our own devices.
And so I just thought, man,there has got to be a better way
where we're not offending eachother but we're able to connect
without guilt or shame.
And so I started kind oflooking around and I ran across
this organization called AROA-R-O rhymes with tomorrow.

(01:51):
So I found this great ad onsocial media Yep, one of those
times I was scrolling and Ireally got this sense of like
and that there's this lifestylethat is available and is
possible for us as families,where we can set healthy

(02:11):
boundaries around these devicesand really intentionally connect
with each other.
So I just reached out to one ofthe co-founders, joey Odom, and
said hey, man, would you joinus on our podcast and just tell
us firsthand what is behind yourcommunity and this lifestyle
that is available to all of usas parents and grandparents and

(02:35):
kiddos that are using devices inthese days?
And he said absolutely.
So welcome to the show, joeyOdom.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Jordan, it's so good to see you, Really, really
excited to talk today.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
This is going to be awesome, guys.
Joey's a real naturalstoryteller, so you're in for a
treat.
He's a dynamic leader who'sknown for his ability to inspire
and foster deep connectionswith others, and his own
experience with technology as ahusband and dad is what led him
to help create RO.

(03:09):
Alongside his co-founder, heathWilson, and Joey, you also host
the RO podcast, which is kindof a weekly conversation with
leaders and influencers who alsostrive to live really
intentionally right.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
That's right.
Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Awesome.
So, joey, you're married toyour wife of almost 20 years and
have two children Harrison, age16, and Gianna 14.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
That's right.
Yeah, I'm weeks away from my20-year anniversary and I've not
bought a gift yet, so I thinkthere's a real problem there,
but I got to solve that.
But yeah, coming up on 20 yearshere, Congrats.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
That is awesome.
My husband and I arecelebrating 20 years in
September.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
We can give you all the sage wisdom of being married
three more months than you.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
So we can yeah, we'll to change and we've got to do
something that serves even thelarger community.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, it's funny.
I bet you everybody listeningto this podcast, this episode
today, I bet you everybody sayslike, all right, I want to be a
family character.
And they've had these momentswhere it's just been like, okay,
there's something that needs tochange.
And mine goes back about 11years.
So you mentioned my son,harrison, who is also weeks away

(04:42):
.
He's turning 16 in a couple ofweeks.
He just passed his driver'stest this past Saturday, so
he'll get that license on May29th.
But we were there for Harrison'sfirst soccer season when he was
five years old.
So Harrison is a great kid.
He's actually a great tennisplayer now competitive tennis
player and when he was fiveyears old he was playing his
first soccer season and did not.

(05:03):
I want to say this nicely, hehad not yet learned the ropes of
soccer, so he had not yetmastered soccer.
And so we did.
And anybody who's a, who was aparent of a kid who plays sports
, they can relate to this.
You drag the lawn chairs out,you go, plop them on the side of
the which.
Do they still call them lawnchairs?
By the way, I don't know, I maybe showing my age here.

(05:26):
Oh, they do, they do, we do.
Okay, good, there you go.
So bring out the launchers, siton the sidelines and just
basically wait out an hour untilthe game's over.
And youth soccer it's not alwaysthe most exciting thing, but
this particular day somethingreally extraordinary happened.
So it was about midway throughthe game and Harrison everybody
on the team had scored a goalthis season, except for Harrison
.
So at this moment, middle ofthe game, harrison rears back

(05:50):
his leg and Jordan it's almostlike you picture this scene like
a movie, like slow motion cue,the dramatic music.
He kicks the ball and rollsover the grass into the back of
the net for Harrison's veryfirst goal.
And everybody on the sidelines,all the parents.
They knew that Harrison had notscored a goal yet this season.
This was his first goal.
So everybody goes nuts right,the coach runs out, lifts him up

(06:14):
, and there was this littlesplit second moment, kind of
right, between the coach goingand picking him up and from when
he scored the goal, whenHarrison did something that
five-year-old boys do, isHarrison turned to the sidelines
to lock eyes with me, to sharethis moment, right For him to
see the pride and the smile onmy face and this really, truly

(06:36):
magical moment, except whenHarrison looked over to the
sidelines, all he saw was thetop of my head because I was
looking down at my phone and soI missed this first soccer goal.
And Harrison Harrison swearsJordan, he swears that he does
not remember this.
I don't think I have a therapybill ahead of me for that.
So he swears he doesn'tremember this moment, but I

(06:57):
remember it.
And so the people will naturallyask they'll say, like okay, so
you missed this important moment, like surely it was something
that you were looking at thatwas really, really important.
You're doing something reallyimportant on your phone.
And the answer is yes, I wasnegotiating a domestic terrorist
hostage situation, right?
No, I wasn't doing anythingimportant, right?
Like here I am scrolling socialmedia or looking at ESPN or

(07:19):
responding to a group text, likeI have no idea what I was doing
, but I do know that I can't getthat moment back.
And and it was one of these andmaybe the comforting thing I
don't know if this comforting ornot, but one of the comforting
things is we hear parents allthe time, like I alluded to, say
I've missed those moments, andin fact there are probably a lot
of moments that we don't evenrealize that we've missed, maybe

(07:40):
when our kids have looked overto us, when we just haven't seen
it.
So we don't recognize all thesemoments.
But I realized in that momentthat something was wrong and, in
fact, when I think about it, Ithink like what was wrong is
that I have a relationship withthis device that was getting in
the way of what I would claim isone of my most important

(08:00):
relationships in my life, andI'd like to say I'd love to say
that everything changed at thatmoment, but it didn't.
I still stumbled and I stillstubbed my toe.
But that's the moment I lookback to, when I said something
has to change when it comes tomy relationship with my device.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, I can relate to that a hundred percent.
I think all of us listening canthat man, you're just.
You can't get those momentsback.
I did an episode recently whereI was talking about, you know,
kids and their little programsthat they put on at school or
their singing concerts, and howwe all have our phones capturing

(08:38):
the moment.
And it just came back to me whenyou were talking about Harrison
looking for you, looking fordad that pride on your face so
he could make that visualconnection with you, and he
didn't see it.
Well, how many times do we haveour phone in front of our face
when?
We're trying to videotape themoment and our kids see the back

(08:59):
of our phones and not our face,our phones and not our face, I
mean just the psychology behindthat.
Being a counselor for 20 yearsreally has me freaked out that
our kids are not connecting withour eyes, you know.
They're not looking to us ashuman beings for the support and
the you know affirmation thatthey need, that they're being

(09:22):
blocked by these devices.
And so it's happening to all ofus.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
You're so right, I mean, and you think about from
the perspective of a child.
You think about, you thinkabout even, I mean think from a
newborn's perspective, andobviously they're not like
thinking in words at that moment, they're just kind of observing
and digesting what's happeningwith them and then their brains
are adapting to it.
But you think of it.
Then there've been study afterstudy that's come out of the
importance of eye contact forfor infants, right, and so they

(09:51):
have this natural need forconnection, right.
It's so neat, that's the mostinnate thing.
I mean.
You even think about like youthink back back in the old
Testament, like the story ofAbraham and um and his and his
concubine, where she runs off,right, and then God finds her
and seeks her out and whileshe's at the well, and she says
you're the God who sees me.

(10:12):
And so you think back as justthat term which I love, that
like just this need that we haveto be seen is so deep in us.
And so you know back to likethe oldest of the you know of
text in the Bible, that we seethat.
And so this, this concept ofbeing seen, you think about a
child, their need to be seen andtheir need to connect.
And then we insert thisunnatural device right in

(10:33):
between that, right in front oftheir need for their natural
need for connection, and we'rebeginning to see and this is
really interesting as we'redoing our work and our studying,
and as we've this company, aswe've launched our over the last
few years, we've heard thesestories of very young kids, you
know, 15 months old, two yearsold, taking their parents' phone
and throwing it across the room, or taking their parents' phone

(10:55):
and moving it down, or grabbingyour parents' face and having
them look at you and so, in away, like kids have felt this,
the from a very young age, whathappens when you put an
unnatural device in front of anatural need for connection?
And they're actually, not onlyis it just like crushing them
inside, but they're actually madabout it.
They're, they're very angryabout it and and I think with

(11:15):
with good reason, yes, so we, we, we have this thing and again,
when you, when you take a stepback and think about it, jordan,
it's in a way, and I think I'mvery encouraged.
Actually, jonathan Haidt hasjust released a book called the
Anxious Generation thateverybody's talking about.
That really puts into wordsthis tension we're feeling and I
love that he's and we're goingto look back, I believe, at this

(11:37):
period of time now up till, youknow, 15 years ago, and say I
can't believe we used to do that.
I really do think we're goingto look at that and be like this
is so funny.
I mean, in the same way we lookback on cigarette commercials
and cigarette ads.
You have these doctors withstethoscopes smoking a cigarette
and these old cigarette ads andthey're so laughable.
Now we are going to do that now.

(11:57):
And the people who are thepeople who are arguing this.
I read an article this morningin the Wall Street Journal about
people coming out againstJonathan Haidt's book and saying
wait a second, there's noconnection between teenage
anxiety and social media.
And you just look at me likeyou are on such the wrong side
of history here.
Like what are you talking about?
Like, obviously this issomething that is absolutely

(12:18):
catastrophic to our kids'upbringing, to their natural
need for connection.
And the cool thing about it,about all of it, as dire as it
may seem and as everybody talksabout it, it's usually with a
lot of doom and gloom anddespair.
I could not disagree more.
This is such a hopefulopportunity all of us have.
This is such an amazingopportunity for families because

(12:39):
we can get it right.
The answer is so accessible,the answer is right in front of
us and it's not going to be fun.
It may not be as interesting aswatching cat videos on your
phone.
It may not be as interesting aswatching dance videos on TikTok
, but this is the greatestopportunity we have for
connection right now, in 2024.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
I love what you're talking about and there
absolutely is a connectionbetween social media and anxiety
.
The other thing I was thinkingabout the other day I thought,
man, when I was back in highschool, what was the social
media platform back then?
It was MySpace, myspace, thereyou go, facebook, so now it's

(13:20):
Instagram and then Instagram'snot great, so it's you know this
and that TikTok and X and like.
We just keep jumping to anotherplatform because we burn
ourselves out.
We get bored.
It doesn't give us enough.
And so we just keep chasing andpeople are happy to create a new
platform that's shining andwill grab our attention.

(13:41):
But I feel I don't know aboutyou, but I feel burnt out on it.
I'm ready to throw my phone outthe window three days a week
when I'm crossing Arapahoe Roadto go to my house and I'm
thinking I just checked my emailat the stoplight.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yes, I know I'm sick of this thing.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I have a love-hate relationship with this phone.
I love how instant we can getthings, but then I hate it
because it distracts me from myrelationships and you know it
gets us in this place of viceversus, you know, a place of
self-discipline and self-control.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Well, it's so true, and I think I think when one
interesting thing is we thinkabout this a lot and we you and
I have used the termrelationship a bunch already,
and I think that's for goodreason, because it is our
relationships that are sufferingmost from it, our most
important relationship, and itall begins with this
relationship we have theirphones, which whenever I say our
relationship with our phones,no one says oh my gosh, what do

(14:38):
you mean?
A relationship with their phone?
That's not a weird thing to say, but we have to take a step
back for a moment and realizethat's very weird.
We're talking about a rectanglethat we have a relationship
with.
We're talking about an objectand we're all just universally
agreeing that we have arelationship with it and we
absolutely do have arelationship with it.
But that is unbelievablyuncommon in adulthood to have a

(15:04):
relationship with an object.
However, in childhood, that'snot odd to have a relationship
with an object, and childrenhave relationships with objects
that are called transitionalobjects, another term.
You're probably familiar withthis.
They're also referred to ascomfort objects and those are
things like pacifiers andblankies and teddy bears.

(15:24):
So the purpose that serves is,when a child is young, when
they're around their parents,they have no need for this
transitional object or comfortobject.
We'll call it a comfort object.
They have no need for a comfortobject.
But when their parents leavethe room, they cling to this
thing.
They cling to this object, thiscomfort object, and it gives
them a false sense of security,a false sense of comfort.
It gives them a sense ofcomfort, but it's not actually

(15:46):
doing anything other than givingthem that feeling, and they do
that in the absence of theirreal security, in the absence of
their real comfort, which istheir parents.
Right, yes, and these arehelpful tools for children.
I mean, these are really goodthings for them, because what
they do is, after a while, theyrealize oh, I can do this
without the blanket.
This is transitioning me intoindependence.

(16:10):
I can do this on my own, Idon't need the pacifier, I don't
need the teddy bear.
So they serve a very good, veryhelpful purpose.
But when you look at those inthe context of adulthood, we
have these new comfort objects,these new transitional objects
that are called smartphones, andwe cling to them all the time.
But instead of transitioning usinto independence, they're kind
of devolving us back intoisolation.
And the weird thing here is.

(16:31):
I don't think I want to thinkexactly how to say this.
Right is is A child clings to acomfort object to give them a
false sense of security in theabsence of real security, in the
absence of their parents.
We're clinging to these comfortobjects in the presence of real
security, in the presence ofreal relationships.
We're doing this as we sitacross the table from our

(16:51):
spouses.
We're doing this as we sitacross the table from great
friends.
We're doing this as we sitacross the table from our kids.
We're clinging to these things,friends.
We're doing this when we sitacross the table from our kids.
We're clinging to these thingsand so it's putting us back in
this state of adolescence.
That is very, very unhealthyand that begins with the
relationship.
Right, so there's.
I'll take a pause there.
I want to continue on with that, but I'd love to hear your
thoughts on that.
I know you're familiar withkind of transitional and comfort

(17:13):
objects, but how does that, howdoes that resonate with you?

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Oh yeah, you hit the nail on the head.
I mean, those transitionalobjects are there for the
development, the naturaldevelopment of a child.
I mean that's part of you know,that kind of transitional
object or object relationstheory, part of their
development, and so it's a goodthing.
But it's to transition themaway from it, right.
And like you said, as adults wehave these connections in the

(17:42):
room with us and we areinterrupting those connections
because of this device.
Yeah, yeah, it's the opposite.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
And what's what's so interesting about it?
It's, it's so again, I'll takea.
I'll probably caveat this aboutfive times.
You've heard my story ofmissing my son's first soccer
goal.
That's not the only moment Imissed.
Everything that we're sayinghere is from a place, never from
a place of self-righteousness.
This is all because we, weneeded.
I mean, I quit a career tostart a company along with my

(18:13):
business partner because I wasso bad at this.
Right, so let's not all of youhave to quit a career just to
get this right.
Right, so let's not all of youhave to quit a career just to
get this right.
Hopefully we've, we've got thecompany that'll help you here,
but but we've done this.
So as we talk about this this iscause, I do understand it, but
as we talk about this, like invery objective terms, as we're
discussing it Jordan, it's itit's almost laughable.
Like what are we talking about?

(18:33):
Like people, people work, sothey, they spend most of their
their adolescence hoping andpraying for a great partner,
someone they'll marry someday.
That's going to be great.
And then the next thing you dois like, okay, well, we don't
have kids someday, and havingkids can be a very toilsome,
long, drawn-out process, andthen we finally have kids, and

(18:55):
now we're just sitting herescrolling this away, these
things that we've wanted all ofour lives.
It seems so silly, and Iunderstand that, but these
things are so compelling andit's almost as if we need to get
a picture, though I saycompelling, it's like wanting to
have chocolate ice cream fordinner instead of having a
chicken breast and broccoli.

(19:15):
We know the good effects of theother stuff, but chocolate ice
cream just tastes delicious,right, and so it's a little bit
challenging.
But, and so we, we got to askourselves like, okay, how have
we gotten into this relationshipwith our phones?
And this is something that we,we, I call.
We call this the PID cycle,p-i-d, the PID cycle.
This is how we've gotten intoit.
So it begins with our phones.
It begins with a P, which isproximity, so our phones.

(19:37):
It begins with a P, which isproximity, so our phones.
We are with our phones all thetime.
So, statistically, 91% of ushave our phones with us 24 hours
a day.
91% of us don't have to moveour feet to get to our phones,
so we're always around them.
So this proximity that we havewith our phones leads us to I,
which is interaction, leads usto interact with our phones
virtually all the time, andconventional advice says

(20:02):
basically, hey, we'll justsilence your notifications and
then you won't use your phone asmuch.
Interestingly, that canactually be a counter.
That can have a counter effectto it.
You can actually end up usingyour phones even more when your
notifications are silenced,which is weird.
But the reason why is, at leastwhen you're notified of
something, then you know when tocheck it.
Otherwise you're just thinking,oh, what's happening in there?

(20:23):
What's happening in there,what's happening in there.
So it leads you to pick up more, and there's a study after
study that's showing this.
So when and interestingly whenwe think about our phones, we
think, okay, well, it is thenotifications that are
interrupting us, well.
But again, the stats tell usthat 89% of our smartphone usage
is self-initiated.
We are the ones that arepicking up our phones to see
what's on there.

(20:43):
Only about 11% of ourdistractions from our phones are
inbound.
Only 11% of our usage isinbound.
So when we're around our phones, there's the P proximity.
It leads us to interaction,which is the I, which leads us
into a level of dependence onour phones.
Now, this is where it gets alittle bit tricky, because our
phones are actually reallyhelpful.

(21:03):
Our phones actually do reallygreat things for us, right?
I mean, I'm learning French onmy phone and I can order a Jimmy
John's sub and I can use waysto get me wherever I'd like to
go.
So they do some useful thingsfor us.
However, because we interactwith them so much, we're also
lulled into a sense of falsedependency on them.

(21:24):
So this false dependence, so anexample of that, probably the
best example we all know that weshouldn't look at our phones
before bed.
We all know we shouldn't lookat our phones in the middle of
the night.
We know it disrupts our sleep.
We know the blue light kind ofdisrupts our REM cycle and all
that stuff.
It's bad for us.
Yet most of us sleep with ourphones in our room.
And again, I understand hey,what if someone calls in the

(21:47):
middle of the night?
I do understand all that, butmost of us have our phones with
us in there and the reason whyis well, I use it as my alarm
clock.
That's why that's not a realdependence, that is a false
dependence.
You, that's why that's not areal dependence, that is a false
dependence.
You can go and you can get a$15 alarm clock that will wake
you up in the same way that yourphone will wake you up.
So another one would be and thisis maybe this is another one

(22:07):
where it's a little bit of agray area is our cameras.
Well, I don't want to miss amoment.
I don't want to miss a momentIf you really, you really can
get around that when you'redependent on your phone, or you
feel like you're dependent onyour phone, then you don't want
to give it up.
So what does that do?
That leads you back toproximity.
Well, I got to be around it, Igot to be around it, and then,

(22:28):
when you're around it, you'regoing to use it more, you're
going to interact with more,then you're going to feel more
dependent on it.
So that cycle continues on.
So an extraordinarily long wayof saying the relationship we
have with our phone all beginswith this proximity piece, that
they are with us all the timeand that is the defining
characteristic of our phones.
That leads us into all thisinteraction, that leads us into

(22:49):
all this dependence.
And, by the way, there are alot of good people out there, a
lot of good organizations thatare solving some of the woes of
our phone things like socialmedia, online bullying, all that
stuff.
We should absolutely addressthat.
That's very important.
We really applaud those peoplethat are doing that.
What we at RO are focused on ishelping people go to this core
relationship with we have withour phone and changing that core

(23:11):
relationship, because when youchange your relationship with
your phone, you change yourrelationship with everyone
around you, including yourrelationship with yourself.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I love this.
I am taking notes over here.
Change the core relationshipwith your phone.
That's where it starts.
That's like getting at the rootof it, not just setting the do
not disturb or not, just puttingthe Freedom app on your phone
and keeping your phone with youall the time, which again I love
what they're doing at FreedomHelp people set some healthy

(23:44):
limits, but this proximity thing, Joey oh my gosh, as you were
talking about that, I'm likethere have been times when I
have refused to buy a great pairof pants that I love and look
good, because they don't have apocket for my phone.
I mean, right, you're afraid togo to the gym with a yoga pants
that don't have the phone pocketbecause you might miss

(24:05):
something or you might have tocarry it and put it in the
locker and then you'd be awayfrom it.
I mean and and we all do thisright Again I have these issues.
You've had these issues in thepast.
We have developed this realdependency on it.
I mean, I'll notice myselfwalking around the house and
I've got this phone just in myhand.

(24:27):
I just have it in my hand andI'm cooking dinner and I've got
it in one hand.
It's not nothing's even goingon on it.
There's no music there's no, noshow it's just like this
attachment that that I'vedeveloped.
You know this dependency.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Which Jordan it's, and it's not like.
I think I ought to say this Ifit, if it were just us having
our, if it were just having ourphone with us all the time, it
wouldn't matter.
And I'm trying to think of agood example.
Maybe this may be a terribleexample.
It's not like we say, becausewe wear shirts all the time,
that that's a problem, that wehave shirts with us 24 hours a
day, like that's a problem.

(25:03):
No, our shirts aren't gettingin the way of anything other
than us just being embarrassedin public.
Right, like our shirt, ourshirts serve a purpose for us.
So the the fact that we haveour phones with us, the fact
that we have this relationshipwith our phones, that's not the
problem.
The problem is the devastatingeffects it's having on everybody
around us, right, and so youthink, you think about this
concept and we, we stronglybelieve that that the crisis,

(25:27):
the real crisis here, is not aphone crisis.
The crisis we have is anintimacy crisis in all of our
relationships we are, ourintimacy in every one of our
relationships is beingdeteriorated by this and it's
dying.
I mean, you've heard the termdeath by a thousand cuts.
Our relationship, our intimacyis dying.
It's a death by a thousandglances when my daughter, my

(25:51):
14-year-old daughter, is tryingto open up to me.
And, by the way, for anybodywho has been a teenage girl or
knows a teenage girl or is ateenage girl, it's hard to be a
teenage girl, right, there's alot of pressure on there,
especially in an age of socialmedia and body comparison and
all that kind of stuff, likeit's very, very hard.
And so if my daughter Gianna,if she, if she's happened to
open up to me one day and sayshey dad, can I talk to you about

(26:13):
what happened at school today?
And I could sit there, jordan,I could sit there for 59 minutes
and 45 seconds of full focus,and all it takes is one glance
down while she's in the middleof opening up, and that kills
the moment.
But it doesn't just kill thatmoment, it kills her willingness
to be open with me again.
It kills her because she'llremember.

(26:34):
Her little neuroplastic brainwill remember the last time I
was vulnerable dad, I got shutdown because he wasn't focused
on me.
So you can get so much rightand just a moment of lack of
presence can ruin all of it.
And in the same way, you canactually get so much wrong as a
parent, and then full presencemakes up for all of it.
So it's these.
And let's think about going on adate night with your spouse.
You get all dressed up, you goout to a date and then what do

(26:56):
you do?
You sit on your phones thewhole time.
Like what does that do for you?
Like what does that do forintimacy?
What does that do for?
And again, I'll point out tothe fellas here, like to the
guys, like your wife is cravingconnection with you.
Even if she's on her phone abunch, she is craving connection
with you and she's just waitingfor your initiation.
She's waiting for you to sitdown at dinner and say, hey, I'm

(27:16):
so excited to have dinner.
I got an idea let's switchphones during dinner.
Or, hey, will you hold thisphone?
Will you just?
Or you just say hey, will youhold my phone for me at dinner,
I want to be here with you.
Like just that little thing.
She's great.
And, by the way, at Auro.
We get very few returns.
So our, our, our product, wehave very few returns, but the
few that we do, almostuniversally, there's one answer

(27:36):
and it's a it's a wife.
So, by the way, our orders areabout 65 to 70%.
Moms order from ours.
They're leading the charge ondigital wellness.
But of the very few returns weget, the answer is almost
universal.
It says I couldn't get myhusband on board with it, which
makes me want to go shake thehusbands Cause it's like, bro,
like your wife has broughtsomething in your home for

(27:57):
connection and you're saying noto that.
You're saying no to intimacy,like not only is that bad for
you, like it's just it'sbasically subverting all the
other things you want in yourlife because you're not willing
to do something that allowsconnection in your home or sets
a good framework for your kidsgrowing up.
That's a little bit of an aside, but that's a little bit of a
soapbox.
However we have, we do knowthat this intimacy in

(28:20):
relationships all across theboard is totally damaged by
these thousand glances, thesedeath, by a thousand glances in
our, on our phones and again,you use this word earlier like
self-discipline, having theself-discipline, I believe that
any sustainable, effectivesolution has to rely less on
self-discipline and willpowerand more on environment.

(28:40):
So James, james clear and atomichabits says it says basically
that he said environment isalways stronger than willpower.
If you're, if you're justthinking, you're just going to
gut it out and you're going to,you're going to, you know, make
all the right decisions everysingle time it's going to give
out.
But environment he gives anexample of.
If you want to be a runner, putyour running shoes by the door
that you walk out every day.
That's a little bit of anenvironmental change.

(29:01):
That's a small environmentalchange.
So what are these ways?
And again, our business is alldesigned around is all designed
around kind of changing thatenvironment so that you can, so
you don't have to rely onwillpower, so you can kind of
gamify the experience being awayfrom your phone.
And so if you can begin to dothat in curating your
environment towards your goals,as opposed to relying on
self-discipline, that's whereyou're really.
We'll see sustainable change.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, I love what you're saying here and at the
beginning, when you're trying tochange a habit.
I love James Clear.
That is such a great book HabitStacking it's so good, but when
you're trying to change aningrained habit of this
dependency on this device, it'shelpful to have a tool that
helps at the beginning untilthis becomes this natural habit.

(29:45):
So, I can't wait for you to tellus about this, because I have
so many ideas about that littlething on the shelf right behind
you.
I just have so many thoughtsabout it that I want to flesh
out with you here on the show soyou're talking about, like
change your home environment?
Change what it looks like,instead of you know, having your
phones out hanging by a cordfrom the outlet on the

(30:08):
countertop.
Well, I mean tell us about this, this, this tool.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And one caveat for the listenerthis is not a product pitch.
This is not.
I believe that the term RO is aterm that means to notice, to
turn towards.
I believe that everybodylistening today can live a
lifestyle of RO, can live alifestyle of notice, noticing
the people around them, thebeautiful world around them, the
beautiful lines in a novel,whatever.

(30:34):
That is a feeling you'refeeling inside.
I think we can all live alifestyle of RO.
So I want to make sure, aswe're talking about this, this
does not come across as aproduct pitch, because it's not.
However, we built this because Ineeded help, my business
partner Heath.
We needed help, we needed somehelp getting this thing out of
our pockets, which sounds sobasic and it sounds so easy, but
we just said it's not reallyworking for me.

(30:54):
And in a way, you can compareit to exercise and we all know
that you can burn calories forfree and you can build muscle
for free.
You can run around theneighborhood and you can do
pushups and sit-ups and pull-upsall for free.
Yet most of us join a gymbecause we need some help
removing the friction of doingsomething difficult.
That is valuable, exercise isvaluable, but it's difficult.

(31:15):
We need a community around us,we need somebody telling us what
kind of workouts we need to do,we need a place we go to, we
need the equipment, all thatkind of stuff.
So Auro is a platform designedfor families and in fact, we're
the only digital wellnessplatform and solution designed
for families.
Everything else is kind of justfor the parents, just for the
kids.
This is for everyone, thateverybody can participate in.

(31:36):
They can be a real team arounddoing this.
So Auro, the platform, it's acombination of a thing you said
over my shoulder, this thisbeautiful home decor piece that
holds and charges your phones,and when you put it in your
phone in the RO box, itautomatically connects to the RO
app.
And what that does?
It begins to quantify theamount of time that you're
physically distant from yourphone, the amount of time that's

(31:57):
in the RO box, and so what youcan do with that.
Let's say, you go finish an ROsession.
When you take your phone out ofthe box it'll say, hey, you
just spent 47 minutes away fromyour phone and you do a quick
tap of what you were doing.
So in doing that, what makes itfun?
You're tagging those sessionsand then you get to see how that
builds up over time.
So you're gamifying theexperience of being away from
your phone.
By the way, there are alsoleaderboards for your family.

(32:18):
You can connect your kind ofdaily ring, almost like a
fitness ring, how much timeyou're away from your phone.
You can see how many days ofstreaks you have physically
distant from your phone.
So you can do all of that.
So that whole that appexperience, which is fantastic,
and we just released a newversion of the app that will
really gamify the experience ofbeing away from your phone.
Now this is all built around thehabit loop we mentioned, james

(32:39):
Clear, which begins with a cue.
You have the visual cue of thebox, the RO box, and the reason
that's powerful, that there's acouple of reasons for that.
One of them, it is a physical,tactile thing.
Second thing, is it really notonly is it a place to hold your
phone, but it's also just avisual reminder of who you
aspire to be?
You see this in a prominentplace and you say you know, for
my family, the Odom family, hey,the Odom family, we're present.

(33:00):
Hey, we are with each other.
We care about what everybodyaround us feels, and so that's
why we put our phones down.
So you have the cue.
It leads to, the routine ofputting on your phone and then
you have the reward.
The reward is, you know thegamification, the badges, all
that kind of stuff that socialmedia companies use to keep you
on your phone.
We use to keep you off yourphone.
But the real reward is whathappens when you're away from

(33:22):
your phone, the life thathappens on the other side a
great family dinner conversationor playing outside on the
trampoline, or having maybe adifficult conversation with one
of your kids or your spouse.
So we've designed this entiresystem to go to that core
relationship and make it easy toget this phone out of your
pocket and into the Auro box.
And for my kids again, my kidsare 16 and 14.

(33:43):
We've been using Auro sincebefore they got phones, so it's
made it really easy when theygot phones because this is just
normal to them.
Now your phone doesn't live inthe room, it never sleeps in the
room with them at night, whichis very easy to initiate good
behavior versus changing badbehavior.
You can change bad behavior,but it's a lot easier to
initiate good behavior.
It's been easy for them, it'sbeen normal for them.
They've seen me do it, they seemy wife do it.

(34:04):
That's kind of become a normalfamily rhythm.
That's just kind of become likepart of the culture of how we
live in our lives at home.
So it is.
I'll give one little anecdotethat goes along with it.
So I was reading in my journalthe other day I do a five-year
journal, we, my journal.
The other day, I do a five-yearjournal.
Um, we, you have the.
You know, every year you havean entry.
So May 8th 2020, my daughter,gianna, who was 10 at the time,

(34:25):
we watched a Harry Potter movieand she said to me at the end of
the movie she goes, dad, shegoes.
Did you know?
This is the first time thatwe've watched a movie and you
haven't had your phone.
So this is May 8th 2020, whichJordan was a little bit of a gut
punch, like he was.
Like, have I been this bad of adad for 10 years?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Right, you know what I mean, and so it was a gut
punch.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
But there was another element, an element of it where
I ran this.
We had just been beta testingRO, so this is brand new.
But there's another part of methat said, okay, like I've done
something good, I'm kind ofproud of myself.
So I read that to Gianna theother day and she laughed.
She's 14 now.
She laughed.
She goes dad, that would be soweird if you had your phone
during a movie now.
So in four years, what's normalfor her has drastically changed

(35:11):
.
I mean, her normal iscompletely different.
So that's an encouragement fromthe chief of centers, the guy
who used to do it.
Worse, If I can do it foreverybody out there who maybe
feel a little, feels a littlehopeless, or maybe I'm not doing
it right, or gosh, I'm having areally hard time here, I just
promise you from personalexperience things absolutely can
change your world and yournormal for you and your kids can

(35:31):
look entirely different.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
I love it.
It's the simple things, thesmall things daily that add up
over time.
Thank you for sharing thatexample, because all of us have
had that experience of.
Oh, you know, kids' moviesaren't my thing.
I'm going to check every oncein a while.
They see that they notice, youknow.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
They're little noticing machines.
I'm telling you, and again allthey're doing is noticing and
adapting, noticing and adapting,noticing and adapting that's
all they're doing is from a veryyoung age.
So what normal are we providingfor them?
In fact, we thought that RO.
We thought that RO would be forfamilies who look kind of like
ours for my business partner,his family or my family with
kids, with teenagers, who havephones, and it's been entirely

(36:13):
different.
It's for families, the peoplewho have adopted the most.
It's for all families, but it'sreally for families with kids
don't have phones and you wouldthink that doesn't make sense.
Well, I want to change my kids'behavior.
Hold on, if you can justestablish a normal culture for
them to see that your phones areaway, in fact, our power users
of Aura will hand their kidstheir phones and have their kids
put their phones in Aura forthem.

(36:34):
So it's kind of initiating goodmuscle memory for them.
So we have found those youngkids are the ones who love our
own most because they are nowgetting the full attention of
mom and dad.
And it really is a beautifulthing when you can change that
normal in your home.
And this is for people who'vesaid I've tried everything, I
felt hopeless.
This really has made all thedifference.

(36:54):
That really is who this is forPeople who've tried other things
, who have great intentions butmaybe need a little bit of help
following through back of theexercise joining a gym, example.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yes, that makes so much sense.
And we have an 18 year oldwho's had a smartphone since he
was 13.
And we have a 12 year old and anine year old and they keep
asking when are we going to geta phone?
And I thought, well, I don'thave much to say on this, this
episode about my little oneshaving any devices.
They don't have iPads, theydon't have their own computers,
nothing.
We have a computer in ourkitchen so that everybody can

(37:24):
see what's going on.
We have one TV that we all haveaccess to on the main floor.
But I love what you're sayingabout using RO as parents and my
18-year-old son, who docks hisphone in our room every single
night in our bedroom.
But to use that and startconditioning the little ones to
know that this is just what youdo, like it has a home and it

(37:48):
has a curfew.
Yeah, that's right, you knowthat's what I was thinking when
I was thinking of this beautifuldesigner box that you've made
this charging station.
It's like this is its home, ithas a place where it lives and
it needs to be in the home by acertain time.
It's like this is its home, ithas a place where it lives and
it needs to be in the home by acertain time.
It's got a curfew.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, I think if our phones could talk, they would
say hey, will you give me abreak, please, can you?
Let me be by myself?
I need a little bit of me time.
Like if the arm we say it allthe time Like if the RO box
could talk, it would basicallysay to you, jordan, what's your
husband's name, josh, josh.
You say, hey, josh and Jordan,it looks like you.
It looks like you're about tohave a glass of wine on the back
porch.
Let me hold your phone so youcan have a great time together.

(38:26):
Hey, it looks like it's Langdonfamily dinner time.
Hey, let me hold your phonesreal quick so you could.
It really is.
It really is one of those thingsthat is so basic.
You said it.
It's so simple, yet it is sodifficult, and that is not

(38:48):
unlike any other thing in ourlife that's valuable.
What do I need to do?
What do I need to do as a goodhusband?
I need to speak my wife's lovelanguage.
I need to be a good listener.
I need to initiate a date oncea week.
I need to you know whatever.
Like, it's all very basic stuff.
I know the answers, yet it'snot that easy, right?
These are all easy solutions.
None of these solutions, and sowe need some help.

(39:09):
Like I said earlier, we needsome help removing that friction
so that we can do thatdifficult thing.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Removing that friction.
You're so right.
You just have to get that outof the way.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Put it in a place where it belongs a central
location where everybody putstheir device, so that you can
re-engage and connect withoutthe temptation of it being on
your body.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, by the way, it's still not easy to be a
great dad, great mom, greatspouse when your phone is up,
but it's still not easy to be agreat dad, great mom, great
spouse when your phone is up butit's virtually impossible when
it's with you.
We're, we're fighting.
We're fighting just anextraordinarily difficult battle
just by having that around usand we still once it's down.
There's still some hard work todo of connection, of being
present.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
There is.
It's tough but I think, likeyou said, you need that visual
cue.
You need to know that there's aspot where this belongs.
The other thing I'm thinking isin mom circles we kind of talk
about well, what are you goingto do when your teenagers come
over and teen friends come overand you don't want them being on

(40:15):
their phones, you don't wantthem taking their phones to the
basement?
You're not sure what they'redoing on them.
So like it'd be kind of cool tobe like guys, we need to log
some minutes here, let's depositthese phones in here and have
some real connection, and likewe can engage the app and grow
this, like gamify it, like yousaid.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Well, it mentioned Jonathan Haidt before.
In the Anxious Generation.
Jonathan Haidt talks about acollective action problem, and a
collective action problem meansthat everybody's experiencing
the problem and the only way outof it is for everybody to buy
into the solution.
Because in a collective actionproblem like this, let's say
that all the boys came over tothe house and they're all

(40:55):
hanging out in the basement.
If only one kid puts his phoneaway, that does nothing for the
situation.
In fact it could cause personaldamage to that kid of being
excluded or left out.
So it causes damage if just oneperson does it, but if
everybody does it, theneverybody gets the benefit from
it.
And in my experience and you mayhave experienced this as well,
when kids have come over to myhouse to hang out with my kids,

(41:16):
when we say, hey, we're going toput our phones here right now
they have the best time and Idon't care how hooked your kid
is on their phone.
They still crave connection,they still want connection and
they just need some help.
And I think as parents we havea cool opportunity to do that,
not only for them.
We have an opportunity to dothat within our own social
circles, that we can lead theway.

(41:36):
We can model the way, and wetalk about we talk about the
four ways to change yourrelationship with your phone,
and that's one of the primaryones is to lead the way.
And so we think that, um, wethink that, especially kids, I
don't think we're giving themenough credit.
I we think like, oh, they needtheir phones.
Oh, they want their phones.
Oh, he can't live without hisphone, she can't live without
her phone.
Totally disagree.
I actually think they arecraving a life without phones

(41:58):
and we need to be good enoughparents to give them that
opportunity.
Not all the time.
I'm not saying to abstain fromphones forever, by no means am I
.
I'm just saying, hey, when it'sfriend time or when it's dinner
time or whatever it is, let's,let's do ourselves all a favor
and let's just remove that fromthe situation so that we can be
fully immersed in it.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yes, and you guys have hit the nail on the head by
by having the app that goeswith it, logging the time right,
the time that you're connected,not that stupid notification
that comes up on your phone thattells you you've decreased your
screen time from 8.7 hours aday to 7.6, you know and you're
like, oh, this is so negative,but you're logging time spent

(42:40):
together.
I went to this retreat one timeand they sent us home with a
really tall candle and they saidthis candle will burn like 50
hours.
Once you've burned this wholecandle, that will have been 50
hours.
So every time you hang out withyour family, light the candle

(43:01):
you're doing something alltogether, light the candle when
you're finished, blow it out,and then you can tell how long
it takes you to spend 50 hourstogether as a family of
intentional time.
And that's essentially, withoutthe fire and the wax, what this
device does, right, is it?
Absolutely your phones and itlogs the minutes that you're

(43:21):
spending connected.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
And it's, it's so fun to see Like.
So if I go in my ROF right now,I would see a rollup of the
last 30 days.
How have I spent my time?
I tag all that time.
So 36 hours and these are youractual numbers in the last 30
days 36 hours of family time, 22hours of working, six hours of
Bible reading, um, five hourswith my wife, five hours with my

(43:45):
son, so on individual time.
And so to look and see that rollup of how you're using your
time.
Because I think sometimes whenyou, the way we act is
predicated on you would know.
A lot more about this ispredicated on how we view
ourselves.
Lot more about this ispredicated on how we view
ourselves.
So if I view myself as a crappydad, I'm probably going to do
the things that a crappy daddoes, right, I'm probably not
going to make too much effort.
But if I view myself as apresent father, if I said

(44:07):
primarily, if I said I am fullyin when I'm around my kids, then
I'll start doing those things.
Whether it's true or not, whenI say it, I'll start doing the
things that a present fatherdoes.
And so by looking at that rollup and saying like here's how
I'm living my life.
Gosh, I'm doing a pretty goodjob.
That's going to only motivateme to do it better again, to do
it well again today, to continueon that positive pattern of

(44:29):
behavior.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yes, and you're.
You're so right, you know, ifyou claim to be that intentional
.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
So, right.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
You know, if you claim to be that intentional,
then your behaviors.
I think having a device orhaving something this beautiful

(45:11):
home decor product or box orcharging station is part of that
it's like part of the behaviorof sticking it in there and
closing the door and just beingfree right Free to connect and
to be that intentional parentthat you want to be.
I did have a question about thefive-year journal.
Is this part of the app or areyou saying you're keeping your
own kind of daily journal aboutthings?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, I keep my own daily journal.
The brand I use, I believe it'scalled Levenger L-E-V-E-N-G-E-R
.
Okay, and it's just a.
It's a basic, you know, 366 dayjournal and it has five lines
for each year so you can fill inthe years I'm on.
I'm on my fifth year now and soit's so much fun to be able to
look back.
This is part of my morningroutine.

(45:50):
I do every day, just to lookback on okay, what was you know?
What was I doing on this day in2019?
So now I'm reading through.
It was around this time whenthe pandemic hit and we all went
into quarantine a few years ago, so I'm reading about what life
was like at that time.
So it's so much fun as a lookback to see the things you're
doing.
But that is a manual kind ofhandwritten journal.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well, I love that and I imagine that if, if we spent
less time on our phones, wecould spend more time like
handwriting some of ourexperiences, which is so helpful
for logging these things inlong-term memory and also being
able to access those experiencesjust looking back through a
handwritten journal.

(46:30):
So I think that's awesome.
I also imagine that with yourapp, you can also look back at
if you're you're tapping it whenyou pick it up out of the box
and you're tapping on what whatactivity you just did.
That was not connected to yourphone.
You could have a little bit ofa log there also to just show
yourself like how am I spendingmy time differently?

(46:53):
This is really awesome and Iwant more of that.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you're identifying,you're almost you're naming,
you're giving a name to what youdid, which provides, which
gives it significance, andyou're totally right to be able
to look back, whether anaggregate or on an isolated
event, and say, oh yeah, we diddo that.
That's it does.
It does make you, in a way, italmost makes things slow down a
little bit.
You're kind of you're kind ofput in a posture of notice again

(47:17):
, or meaning to notice, kind ofputting in a posture of notice
and reflection and time slowingdown because you're not caught
up in, kind of the monotony andthe routine of everyday life.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
You know, it also makes me think if, if you start
getting yourself in thisbehavior of spending time away
from your phone and with yourfamily in the evenings, I know
for myself personally what I'veexperienced when I've done this.
I used to sleep with my phoneby my bed on the nightstand.
And then I just got so sick ofit, I put it in my closet, which

(47:48):
is actually two rooms away.
You have to go through thebathroom to get to the closet.
I put it on a special shelf andlike that helped a ton.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Right, but just like having having a little bit of of
space and distance, just didwithout, maybe with or without
knowing it is backed by science.
So science tells us, studiestell us, the only way to reduce
your smartphone usage is for itto be away from you, physically
distant from you and out of yourvisual field of sight.
That's the only way, which insome ways is like yeah, duh,

(48:30):
like, of course, if I don't havemy phone with me then I can't
use it.
But again, this, this is whatgoes back to the whole PID cycle
proximity, interaction,dependence.
It begins with the fact thatit's with us all the time and
that just kind of devolves intointeracting with more, being
more dependent on it than it'smore around you.
So it just continues to go back,but it begins exactly what you
just said Just remove it fromthe situation.

(48:50):
You're no longer conscious ofit, even if it's in your
presence and you're not using it.
This is interesting.
Studies tell us this, from DrMaxie Heitmeyer at the London
School of Economics.
He says that the mere presenceof your phone equals interaction
with your phone, equals usageof your phone, even if you're
not using it, even if thescreen's turned off, which is so
weird because you'reanticipating what might be
happening on it at all moments.

(49:12):
You're still engaged with itand you're not fully present
with whatever other activityyou're in at that moment.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Makes so much sense.
There's also a term calledattention residue, which means
that when you get distractedfrom something you're talking to
your kids and you look at yourphone, you glance at your phone
because you had a notification.
And you look at your phone, youglance at your phone because

(49:39):
you had a notification.
Science proves that it takesyour brain.
15 minutes to move back to whatyou were doing when you got
distracted.
Wow, it's just crazy.
If you think about that justover a whole day of work or an
evening with your spouse.
Every time you get distractedyou glance at that thing.
It actually takes 15 minutes torecalibrate.

(50:01):
Attend to the person again andyou've lost what they're saying
and you're kind of nodding likeyou think you're back online,
but your brain isn't.
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Another thing.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
I think that people are afraid of Joey really and
you probably hear this all thetime, is it?
It has made me more productivein my work because just

(50:42):
yesterday my son says mom, it'sSunday, we don't do work on
Sundays.
And I said you're exactly right.
So, what are you doing in there?
Checking your emails?
And he's like I know.
I know I said Sunday is a dayof rest, it's a day of
refreshment, it is a day forfamily, and so when I can't
access my computer or my phonefor emails or texts on a Sunday,

(51:07):
I got to be really productive.
Monday through Friday.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
And.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I've got to figure out how to squeeze my work into
a certain amount of hours,because I know I don't have
anything beyond those limits,and so I'm actually so much more
productive and my team isbetter for it when I am not
texting them at 10 o'clock atnight or 4 am in the morning

(51:31):
when I'm awake.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
You know, yeah, I mean you got me excited about
this topic because you're soright that rest is an act of
faith.
Yes, you are, absolutely it'san act of faith in saying that
I'm going to do what I can.
I mean, the whole concept ofSabbath in the biblical sense is
that God can do in six dayswhat the world can do in seven.
Right, that God can do more insix days.
So it, that whole concept, isso powerful and I would agree,

(51:58):
you know, going back to yourcomment about people who say
like hey, I have thisextraordinarily important job
and I need to be, I need to bethere for it.
I couldn't agree more.
I really can't agree more withthat statement.
But it's not the job you think,the job that you have to be
present for.
The only unique job thatanybody who's a parent has is
that of a parent.
No one else can be dad toHarrison and Gianna no one.

(52:20):
That's the only unique job Ihave.
No one else can be husband toKristen.
That's me right.
So, you do have an important joband it is your role as a spouse
, it is your role as a friend,it is your role as a parent.
That's the important job.
Now, that's not to say we'regoing to be lazy and we're going
to be, you know, going to beslothful, or we're going to put
aside work, but I promise you,for most of us and, by the way,

(52:44):
I'm not proposing here a hey, beoff your phone for 10 hours a
day.
Right, you know, we actuallyhave a.
We have a prescription for howlong I think you should be off
your phone, but I am saying thatduring dinner, nope, not.
Then you can be unreachable,right then, so that you can be
fully reachable in your singleunique job, and that's as a
parent or as a spouse.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Thank you for saying that.
I can't underscore it enough.
We have family missionstatements.
You're a family of character.
You know that God is number one, your spouse is number two,
your kids and family are numberthree and your career comes
behind that.
The career is a means tosupport your family.
We understand how important itis, like you said, but there's

(53:25):
got to be some off limits timewhere you are doing your most
important job, like you said manwe are speaking the same
language here I'm loving thisWe've never even met before.
This is so good I love what youguys are doing in your community
at.
Ro, this is just fantastic forfamilies.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I'd love to join, if it's okay, I'd love to.
We talk about and, again, inthe spirit of this not being a
product pitch, I'd love to talkthrough.
I believe that this opportunityis accessible to everybody
listening.
I think it can begin today foreverybody.
So we have four with thepremise that we need to change
our relationship with yourphones.
And maybe I'll just say it,I'll say that, beginning very

(54:08):
directly you, I, we, we need tochange our relationship with our
phones and what's on the otherside of that, the relational
benefit, the relational change,is so much greater than what's
on a screen.
And so I want to give fourpractical ways for people to
change their relationship withtheir phone.
And the first one and these allstart with S, and the first one
in how to change yourrelationship with your phone and

(54:29):
, as a backdrop, some of you mayhave read Simon Sinek's book a
few years ago Start With why.
There's a little bit of a playon that, and this is start with
I.
This, this problem, yourrelationship with your phone, is
your problem.
It's not your spouse's problem,it's not your kid's problem.
You must start with I.
I believe that there's going tobe a lot of government

(54:49):
legislation that comes in, thatyou know.
We've seen the Tik TOK banthat's been passed.
We've seen a lot of otherthings that are happening.
We think schools should banphones.
Yes, we think all of thosethings.
However, we can't wait foranybody else.
This is for you, so don't evenwe tell people when you get RO
in the home.
Don't begin mandating oneverybody else until you have

(55:09):
addressed it yourself.
By the way, this is hard.
This takes a lot ofself-awareness to do, but you
have to start with.
I and, as a parent, kind of themodel that we've seen the last
few years when it comes tohaving our relationship with our
phones is we call these thethree Ms is that we, as parents,
model a bad relationship withour phones check our phones at a
stoplight or look at them atthe dinner table or phone snub

(55:30):
somebody in the middle ofconversation.
We model a bad relationshipwith our phones.
We give our kids a phone andthey mimic what we've modeled to
them, and then we do somethingabsolutely crazy with the third
M is we get mad at our kids formimicking what we've modeled to
them, which makes zero sense.
So instead, what if we modeleda good relationship and our kids

(55:52):
mimic that good relationshipand then we could make memories
and make magic or whatever othercool M you can think of, right?
So we have to start withourselves.
That's one start with I.
The second one is I wanteverybody and this is very
prescriptive, I want everybodyto spend and that's second S
spend one hour a day physicallydistant from your phone, waking

(56:13):
hours.
One hour per day and we used tobe a little bit more ambiguous
with this, Like I'll spend someamount of time.
I'm going to give you one hour.
That should be your goal, andif you have never done this, you
might need to start with fiveminutes to begin, because you're
building a muscle and that'sperfectly fine.
Begin where you are.
There are other people who maybe spending two hours, three

(56:33):
hours, a day away from theirphone.
That's good.
Also, I want to encourage thatgroup Keep building the muscle,
Keep building it up, and this isa muscle.
This is a long term If youthink about it.
Maybe like running a marathon.
If you're going to run 26 miles, you got to start with the
first mile, so do your best, butkeep, and then, if you've
already run a marathon, youmaybe want to improve your time.
I think everybody should spendone hour physically distant from

(56:56):
their phones daily.
That's two.
The third one is I want peopleto establish in their homes
either not either, but both botha sacred time and a sacred
place.
That's phone free in your homeand that can be multiple places.
So a sacred time could besomething like 30 minutes after
you wake up in the morning soyou can have your morning

(57:17):
routine, your mind is fresh.
It could be 30 minutes beforeyou go to sleep.
That could be in it.
That could be your sacred time.
Sacred places are really funand, by the way, sacred time
could also be dinner time.
Sacred place.
This kind of bleeds into intothat sacred place.
The easiest one is the dinnertable.
That's the one that I think youcan get buy-in from everybody.
That has usually a finiteamount of time.
That's 30, 45 minutes, maybeshorter, maybe a little bit

(57:39):
longer, but that could be a.
That's a sacred time and that'sjust automatically phone-free,
no matter what you put it.
Put it in the RO box, If youhave it, put it in a drawer.
Get it physically away from you.
I said that was sacred time.
Sacred place If you have youngkids, or really if you have any
kids.
I love this one.
This is from an RO member whosaid in my child's room, I never
bring my phone in there.

(58:00):
And that was someone who hadyoung kids.
How great is that.
I remember looking at my phonewhile my son and I were reading
a story when I was young.
I don't know how I was lookingat phone in a book, but it
happened.
I messed that one up.
But what if you just removedthe temptation altogether and
just had no phone in yourchild's room?
So sacred times, sacred placesand that can be the cool thing
about sacred.
That whole concept is.

(58:21):
The concept of a sacred thingis always a common object that
we deem as sacred.
You have the power to say thisis sacred.
So establish sacred times andsacred places in your home.
And the fourth one is myfavorite.
This is for all of us to searchfor moments of connection.
Let me explain what I mean bythat.
We can be on the lookout.

(58:43):
These moments of connection,these otherwise common moments,
are around us all the time, butit requires us to be on the
lookout for them.
So let's just take an example.
If my daughter walks in14-year-old daughter walks in
her shoulders are maybe a littlebit slumped and I take note of
that.
Maybe something's wrong there.
Or if my son says somethinglike hey, dad, it was a tough
day at tennis practice.

(59:03):
Or if my wife says, oh, I can't, I can't wait to tell you what
happened today at, you know, atthe grocery store, whatever that
is.
Those are little moments for uswhere the people around us are
asking us to connect with themand we have to be so attentive
to it.
And when those moments come up,I want you to say something,
and these, I believe and this isgoing to sound simple, I

(59:26):
believe these six words are themost powerful words in a
relationship in 2024.
These six words are let me putdown my phone.
And when you do that and I knowthat sounds basic and simple,
but it's just a little note tothem and when you do that, you
go, put your phone physicallyaway, and because the reason

(59:47):
that's important is you'rephysically showing them your
full presence, and then don'tpat yourself on the back, hey,
just let me put on my phone.
And when you do that, here'swhere you're communicating to
that person, whether it's mydaughter with slumped shoulders
or my son, who's had a rough dayat tennis practice.
Or my wife had something at thegrocery store.
I'm telling them hey, there aretheoretically 8 billion people

(01:00:08):
who could reach me on this phoneand right now you're more
important than every single oneof them.
So, Jordan, just imagine whatthat does for a 14 year old girl
.
The foundational sense of valuethat gives to a 14 year old
girl as she confronts otherdifficulty, when everything else
could go to hell.
Everything else can go,everything else can go wrong,
but for her she knows my dadloves me.

(01:00:30):
My dad's eyes I felt the powerof my dad's eyes on me.
I felt the power of my dadbeing fully with me.
What does that do for my16-year-old son, a young man who
wants to become a good man?
Imagine that.
What can that do for intimacy inthe marriage with my wife, just
by that simple act of sayinglet me put down my phone,
physically removing it and thenbeing all in with that person?

(01:00:50):
So search for those cues,search for those moments of
connections.
So one start with I.
Two spend one hour a day fromyour phone.
Three establish sacred timesand sacred places in your home
that are phone-free.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
And then four search for moments of connection Joey,
this is so good.
And when you're talking aboutnumber four of just saying let
me put my phone down, I justwant to emphasize that saying
the words and then doing thebehavior of getting it out of
your pocket and putting itsomewhere away, because that
communicates there's nocompetition for my attention
right now there's zerocompetition, right, I am not

(01:01:28):
competing with email, with text,with TikTok, with anything,
because when we keep it in ourpocket, even though we, we might
believe that, okay, I'm fullylistening, I'm here.
You know, even when you put iton, do not disturb.
It does a little.
They've tricked us right.
You can set it to not disturbyou, but it still does, and and

(01:01:50):
you're not, you're not fullyattentive.
So I love those four ways tochange your relationship with
your phone.
Start with I always going tocome from me first.
Right, I can't expect you to dosomething if I'm not doing it
myself.
Spend an hour a day away fromyour phone and then establish
sacred time, sacred place.
Man, you are speaking ourlanguage.
A family is a character.

(01:02:11):
It's like you've got to havesome time, some sacred place
that you meet up as a family,where there's no competition.
It's all about connection.
And so that's your number three.
And then let me put my phonedown and actually doing that,
looking for those meaningfulmoments of connection Awesome.

(01:02:32):
I love how your organization isall about changing the core
relationship with your phone.
We are desperate for this.
We need it.
The whole world is needing thischange and actual practical
tips on how to get goingchanging that relationship with
our phone.
And you brought it all today ina one-hour episode.

(01:02:54):
I'm not surprised, but I'm I'mhappy about it.
You know, I mean, I've watchedyour, your interviews on social
media and like this is just whatyou do.
You just make it practical forfamilies.
You offer a real tool, butyou're also saying like, if you
don't want to buy this, thisproduct, throw it in a drawer,
like, make your own box RightLike you're not married to this

(01:03:18):
idea that you have to buy thisthing from us.
You're saying we care about yourfamily, we care about your
connection, we care about yourrelationship with your family
over your phone.
And that's what we're all abouthere at the RO community.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
It's totally right, and this is you know RO.
Again, when I I may be theworst salesman in the world,
let's just be honest there andsaying that like, hey, I don't
care if you join or I reallydon't, I mean because I think
you can.
I think the lifestyle of RO isaccessible to everyone, and this
really is.
Though, for the person who saidI've tried like I've, hey, I've
, I've tried something, I've hada hard time with this.
I really need some help.
This is for that.

(01:03:55):
That's who RO is for.
And you say, hey, I need alittle bit of help, and I'll
tell you that this, thislegitimately, will change your
life.
I know it because of theexperience of my life.
I know it because that's wehear from thousands of other
people who've joined RO.
But this really is.
This is for the person.
If you can do this on your own,please.
Difference.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
That's right, and not only help, but just that
community and gamifying theexperience where you as a family
can make it a fun challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I imagine that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Yes, To disconnect, it doesn't have to be.
I love when you said you know,don't be saying okay, you know,
we've got to all dock our phonesand this is like a mandate,
right?
And if?
you don't, then this it's likehey guys, we're in this
challenge, we're part of thiscommunity, let's do this, let's
rack up the connection with ourfamily and as a spouse you

(01:04:46):
mentioned weekly date nightsLike imagine just the things
that are possible when youchange your relationship with
your phone.
You're not dependent on it,like we talked about at the
beginning, and then this wholeother world opens up to you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Joey, thank you for bringing the goodness.
Thank you for blessing ourfamilies with a real solution
and a real community behind it.
I would encourage everyone tovisit the website goarocom
G-O-A-R-Ocom.
Joey, you know you're doing agood job when I'm the one

(01:05:22):
promoting everything I'm likesold over here.
You're not having to tellpeople how to get to your
website or access your community.
I'm doing it for you becauseI'm a believer.
So, keep doing what you're doing.
I don't imagine this is thelast time we'll have contact
with each other.
We've got to stay in community,continue to help parents do the

(01:05:43):
number one right thing fortheir family, which is to be
present and connected andintentional about this number
one most important jobabsolutely, jordan, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Thank you for what you're doing.
Uh, it is fun to be so alignedwith you and and how you're
building families of character.
So, thank you, and this wassuch a fun conversation awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Check them out on social media during the time
that you're not connecting withyour family on instagram.
Also check them out at go,rocom, guys and joey.
Thanks again, and guys, I'llcatch you on another episode of
the Families of Character showreal soon, take care.