Ep. #172: Top 5 Money Struggles Couples Face & How to Overcome Them with Jake and Noelle Wysocki

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We unpack the five biggest money struggles couples face and make the case that a shared vision is the keystone that makes everything else easier. Jake and Noelle Wysocki share practical routines, from State of the Union meetings, and tiny experiments to co-learning, that turn money from a stressor into a tool.

In this episode, we discuss:
• why no shared vision drives most money conflicts
• how to run quarterly “State of the Union” check-ins
• using tiny experiments to make lasting changes
• co-learning to prevent knowledge and power gaps
• combining accounts vs separate money mindsets
• simple 1–10 satisfaction exercise to start now
• aligning money with generosity and long-term goals

Listen to Episode 112, How to Live a Regret-Free Life, with Jake Wysocki and check out his website to see what he has been currently up to! Curious to learn about Jake and Noelle's travels? Visit www.everydayanewadventure.com

Share this episode with your spouse first, then share it with a friend. Stay tuned for our weekly episodes that drop on Tuesday. Check out our website, familiesofcharacter.com

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Hey guys, when it comes to marriage, money isn't

(00:04):
just about dollars and cents.
It's about trust, communication,and having shared dreams.
And in fact, you're not going tobe surprised by this, but
research shows that finances areone of the top sources of
conflict for couples.
And it's not because of how muchmoney you have or don't have,

(00:27):
but it's actually because of howdifferently we think about
money.
Welcome back to the Families ofCharacter Show.
I'm your host, Jordan Langdon.
And today we're diving into thefive most common money struggles
that couples face.
And we're going to hear from ourguests about how they've learned

(00:49):
to navigate these strugglestogether as a united team.
So I'm just going to throw thesetop five struggles out there for
you right off the bat.
Number one, having differentmoney mindsets, right?
One might be a saver and onemight be a spender, or they

(01:10):
value money for completelydifferent reasons.
Number two, avoiding money talksaltogether, just putting off
conversations to quote, keep thepeace.
That often creates biggerproblems later.
Oh man, do you remember when yougot married and you come into

(01:31):
the marriage with your studentloan debt or maybe your target
credit card debt?
That sparks stress in marriages.
Number four is power imbalances,right?
Where one partner is um earningor controlling most of the
money, and then the other onefeels like sidelined or

(01:52):
dependent on their spouse.
And then finally, number five,no shared vision.
That means they're operatingwithout clear financial goals
and saving and spending justkind of feels disconnected or
maybe even competitive.

(02:12):
So today we have on our show areturn guest.
Jake Waisaki is back with hislovely wife, Noelle.
And the reason I invited themback on our show is because on
episode 112, that's 112, we hadJake talk about living a

(02:33):
regret-free life.
And Jake, when I interviewed youon that episode, you talked
about how after you and Noellegot married, you guys quit your
jobs and traveled the world forlike a year.
And I remember thinking, like,how in the world do newlyweds
afford this?
And I had my friends who hadlistened to that episode be

(02:56):
like, seriously, that soundslike a dream.
Like, I wish I could do that in10 years or 20 years.
And so that really sparked theidea to have you back on the
show with your lovely bride totalk about like, how do you
follow through on some of theseshared visions and dreams
together to make something likethat happen?

(03:19):
So definitely check out episode112, How to Relive a Regret Free
Life.
Um, but Jake, Noelle, introduceyourselves.
Let our audience know a littlebit about you, how long you've
been married, your familysituation, and then we'll dive
into this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 (03:37):
Yeah.
Thanks, Jordan.
Um, since everybody heard fromme uh plenty last time, I'll
actually let my wife speak alittle bit first on this one.
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 (03:45):
Great.
Hi, everybody.
I'm Noelle Weisaki, and ofcourse, that's Jake Weisaki.
We are three days shy of our11-year anniversary.
So happy year anniversary.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
We live here in Milwaukee withour two daughters.
Um, Adrian is almost eight yearsold, and Lily is four and a

(04:08):
half.
And sometimes it feels likethey're running the show here.

SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
I think totally's actually 14.
Yes.
But you know.

SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
14-year-old in a teeny, teeny tiny body.

unknown (04:20):
Yeah.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (04:22):
This happens.
This happens.
But we're so glad to have you onour show.
And Jake, you have your own uhbusiness, intention craft.
And Noelle, you are busy workingin corporate America and you got
kids going to school.
So you are in the trenches withus.
You understand uh what it takesto uh keep your marriage

(04:43):
together, uh, be happy in yourmarriage and content with each
other, and uh raise kids thatare awesome and like are trying
to do the right things and tostand firm in their beliefs when
the culture is kind of pushingyou around a little bit and
suggesting things that goagainst the grain.
So um we are super excited tohave you with us.

(05:07):
Thank you for the introduction.
Thanks for having us.
Yes.
So, okay, when I talk aboutdifferent money mindsets,
avoiding money talks, debtpressure, power imbalances, and
then having no shared vision,those being kind of the top five
um money struggles that coupleshave, does that pretty much
match what you've observed inyour own marriage and the

(05:30):
circles that you run run in?
Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 (05:34):
Of of all of those five, the one that really jumped
out at both of us the most asbeing the main pillar would be
no shared vision.

SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
Ooh.
Yeah, I'll I'll jump in here fora second.
So at the conference I met youat, Jordan, Crafting Commerce,
in 2024, I also had the pleasureof meeting Jay Papazan, and he's
the co-author of The One Thing.
And this like stuck out to me,so I felt like I had to name
drop a little bit, frankly, butalso just like call out his his
big thing in the book is havingone thing that makes everything

(06:09):
else easier or unnecessary.
And I just felt like if you havea shared vision, vision of money
with your spouse, that it makesall those other problems easier.
It doesn't necessarily make themgo away, but it gives you easier
answers or more guidance.
And without it, everything elseis harder, conversely.
So that's where that's where ouruh thoughts gravitated towards.

SPEAKER_03 (06:31):
Yes, I appreciate you pulling out that one thing
that stuck out to you because II wonder if other people uh
would agree that that's kind oflike the primary thing, right?
I don't think so.
I think most people think like,well, we just think about money
differently, right?
And that's our biggest source ofconflict.

(06:52):
Well, I agree with you that ifyou don't first have a shared
vision, then you're going torealize that like we have these
different ways that we thinkabout money that comes from the
way we were raised and how ourparents talked about money,
functioned with money, you know,argued about money or whatever.

(07:15):
And then you never get toidentifying the shared vision,
right?
So let's go there.
Let's talk about having a sharedvision for money.
Tell us your experience aboutkind of um deciding that this
was a thing for you guys.
When did you decide to talkabout having a shared vision?

SPEAKER_02 (07:35):
I think the four other items are symptoms of not
having a shared vision.
And we had to work through a lotof those conversations before we
realized wait a second, whatwe're missing here is the
discussion about what we wantour money to do, how we intend
to share our money, what thingsand experiences we want out of

(08:01):
life individually, as a couple,as a family, when we want to
achieve those types of things.
We need to pull back for aminute and talk about what is
our greater vision for ourmarriage and our family, um, and
what does that mean as itrelates to finances?

(08:23):
Um, when did we start doingthat?

SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
That's a really good question.
Um, I feel like I've kind ofalways done these um like goal
packets.
Like ever since I was incollege, my first job, I was
introduced to this uh like goalpacket concept and like Stephen
Covey and things like this.
So I've always done processeslike this.
I would say our process isn'tsuper formal.
So when we talk about a sharedvision, it's not explicitly that

(08:47):
we have a document, although itcould be, and frankly, we
probably should.
That probably helps.
But really, it to me, a sharedvision.
So let's start with like what ashared vision means for me.
And that's having at least uhsome high-level concepts of what
you want your life to look likethat you're agreed on.
So you're moving towards thesame direction.
Let's even take a step furtherback.

(09:08):
Money is a really important, uh,call it a concept or an aspect
of life.
It's not that it's not the endgame, it's the means to get to
the end game, which is a what alife well lived, if you will.
Or maybe in my previous world, aregret-free life or something
like that.
So, money for us is a tool.
Um, it's often also a hindranceif you're not taking care of it

(09:29):
well or on the same page.
And so, our goal with money andhaving a shared vision with
money is to number one, I think,make it not a hindrance and make
it not a problem, an enabler,not a detractor, if you will.
And then also, what do we wantto do with our life will inform
what do we, what kind of moneydo we need?
How do we need our moneystructured or organized, if you

(09:49):
will, or like what choices arewe making on a daily basis and a
big basis?
So that's kind of like a broadstroke of like it gives you um
like a compass, if you will, anda and a decision filter for all
these other things.
So that's what immediately comesto my mind there.

SPEAKER_03 (10:03):
I appreciate you saying just like that, you know,
one of the things that you'vesort of uh latched onto in in
college was this idea of likegoal packets, right?
Like you're you're thinking,okay, let's have a little bit of
a structure to our conversationso that's intentional, and we're

(10:23):
we have a place that we're goingto, an end goal that we're
trying to kind of distill thisconversation down to really
understand, you know, what is itthat you want and what is it
that I want, and how could weput this together?
So I'll have you know, any ofyou parents that have been to
Parents Night Out, it's our datenight event that we host monthly

(10:44):
here in Denver for localcouples.
Jake has been the one that hashelped me with these little goal
packets to do our uh couplesexercises.
So we might talk about the backto school year, right, at one of
our events, and and we'll puttogether a little exercise that
kind of gives an overview ofwhat we're gonna uh accomplish

(11:05):
in this exercise and then takespeople through a series of
questions to get couples engagedwith each other to talk back and
forth uh and to distill it downto kind of like, oh yeah, this
is our shared vision.
This is what we both want thisback to school season to feel
like.
Awesome.
We got there with a littleguided uh exercise, a little

(11:29):
goal packet.
Uh, because I do think that asparents in the trenches, we are
working jobs, we're doingchores, we're managing kids,
we're, you know, ubering peoplearound everywhere.
We've got so much on our platethat we do need a little
structure when it comes toconversations.
Whether you've been married 11years or 21 years on my side or

(11:52):
40 years, I just had a couplereach out to me.
They're in their 70s.
They said, Jordan, we read yourarticle in the Epic Times about
family huddles.
Can we're we're parents who ourkids are out of the house and
they have their own kids.
Could you help us kind of getsome structure around how we
could do a family huddle, how wecould get on the same page and
communicate each week so that wecan um live out our years in

(12:17):
retirement with purpose andintentionality?
And uh I thought back to ourconversation, Jake, about just,
you know, have an intentionalconversation with some
structure, with some guidance.
And so it sounds like you guyshave done this about this shared
vision when it comes to money.

SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
Yeah.
So maybe I can talk a little bita little bit about our process
now.
So I kind of didn't answerNoelle's question or your
question about when do we start?
I don't necessarily know when westarted, but maybe I can tell
you a little bit about whatwe're doing now.
Um how to continue to refine andenhance and just it's it's gonna
change your vision, by the way.
Also, I give you permission,those of you listening, to

(12:57):
change your vision.
It doesn't have to stay lockedin stone.
In fact, it shouldn't, becauseas you're change, as you change,
so should your goals and yourvision.
Um, so we actually called these,and I don't, I stole this from
somebody, but we call them stateof the unions.
Uh Noelle and I is like meetingsthat we do ourselves.
At some point, we'll also bringin our kids.
Um, we could probably startdoing that with Adrian any day

(13:18):
now, I suppose, uh, for some ofthe aspects.
But uh, and and I love takingstepbacks as I'm talking.
I'm like, well, let me tell youthe fundamentals behind it.
So we don't need to go all theway back to the beginning, but I
did want to mention one of thereasons these are so important
to us is you know, if you if wewere to rank, and we've done
we've done this in notnecessarily a direct way, but if
you were to rank the aspects ofour life that are most

(13:38):
important, our marriage is atthe top because it supports
everything else.
So our kids, and I think we'veactually talked about this,
Jordan, maybe even on the lastpodcast, or certainly
informally.
Our kids are incrediblyimportant to us, but they're not
as important as our marriagebecause our marriage supports
the growth of our children, forexample.
So anyway, we we find it reallyuseful to have check-ins.
Um, we try to do this quarterly.

(13:59):
It doesn't always happenquarterly, but we definitely do
like a bigger State of the Unionevery year.
And I think I had an epiphany afew days ago talking about our
anniversary coming up, like whatdo we want to do?
And I'm a big fan of PriyaParker.
You can look her up separately,but she's about the art of
gathering.
I think actually uh recommendedher to you as well, Jordan.

SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
Yes, I love that book.

SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
And her kind of challenge is, I forget how she
phrases it, but it's basicallylike don't have a birthday
party, have a gathering that'sabout um turning another year
older and what that means, orsomething like that.
But it's it's not just doing thething that everybody always
does.
So the question that thatsparked for me was what should
our anniversary be about?
Is it about going out to dinnerand just spending time with each

(14:40):
other in a way that we doperiodically anyway?
Maybe that could be part of it,and that's still fun.
But what if this year weactually did one of our Stay the
Unions on our anniversary oraround our anniversary to really
say, hey, this is like it's beenhowever many years, in this case
11 years, since we decided toget married or we said yes on
the altar.

(15:01):
Now, how are we going toreinforce that?
How are we gonna continuestrengthening that that
relationship, that bond?
What's next?
Looking back, how's it gone?
Things like that.
So I'll just set the stagethere.
Um, so I'm planning our next onenow, but the the core of it is
really kind of like we talkedabout when we're planning and
designing your um parents' nightouts.
First, do a little bit ofindependent thought about

(15:23):
whatever topic it is, because weare individuals, but we're also
a team, but we're individualsfirst, if you will.
And it's easy to just defer toother people when they have
ideas.
So it's really important to dosome of your own thinking,
whatever the question may be.
Let's just use an easy one.
Um, let's talk about the travelthat we'd like to do in the next
few years or something.
Instead of saying just having aconversation, first think for

(15:45):
yourself and then come togetherand share, and then that leads
to more conversation.
Eventually, you need to makesome decisions.
That's like the really, reallybroad strokes of how we come up
with a vision.
So, a vision might be what'simportant to us with money in
particular.
What are the things, well,actually, money is really about
enabling the life we want tolive, right?
So, what do we want to do withour life?

(16:06):
That's like this first step.
And then how do we actuallyaccomplish it?
And a lot of times that has todo with money.
Like if we want to travel, thattakes money typically to spend.
And then we kind of workbackwards from there.
You want to add anything tothat?

SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
Yeah, I think it's been a really interesting way to
approach the the business thatis a marriage.
I think thinking of a marriageuh as an analogy to business
functions, a lot of people mightbe allergic to that idea.
Um, because it's so romantic, itreally just gives you all the

(16:40):
warm, fuzzy feelings when you'rethinking about corporate talk as
it relates to your marriage.
But if if I would think if wewere just winging it and we
never took the time to check inon what do you what do you want
to learn this year?
Where do you want to go thisyear?
What do you want to do?

(17:00):
What goals do we have?
What do what visions do I havefor our children?
What visions do you have for ourchildren and their experiences?
If we were to just go about it,I think we would have a lot more
arguments.
We would have a lot moremiscommunication.
We would be completely unalignedon how to support each other in

(17:20):
accomplishing our goalsindividually, accomplishing our
goals as a couple, andaccomplishing our goals as a
family.

SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
So we'd be making a lot of assumptions.
Oh, yeah.
We all know what assuming is.
So I won't repeat it here.
But you can fill the gaps.

SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
And so it, I think it, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna
lie, it took me a little whileto um get a resistance to that
allergy.
Because even I was like, this isnot a very romantic way to treat
our marriage.
Um, so I had some resistance todoing it for a little while, and

(17:55):
then realized, wait a second,this is actually really
beneficial.
And I'm actually able to expressmy own voice in my goals here
and what I'm hoping that we canaccomplish together.
Um, and it's really been anexcellent driver of our success.
And like Jake was saying, thatis the driver on how we can

(18:20):
define that vision together.
And the financial side is thetool that we can then apply to
making those visions and thosegoals come to life.

SPEAKER_03 (18:33):
I love this.
I love everything about it, andI have all kinds of side
thoughts that are popping up.
Um, one I want to go back to andaddress, you know, when you're
thinking about money and you mayhave heard these top five
conflicts that that couplesstruggle with, and you're going,
yep, we've got every one ofthem, or one of those stands out

(18:54):
more than others to us.
Um I just want to encourage youand give you hope that if if
you've avoided the talk aboutmoney or you have no idea what
you and your spouse's vision forthe future is, um, it's okay
because you can always startfrom now, right?
It's never too late.

(19:14):
If you hear this conversationand you know that it's possible
to start having conversationsabout um, how are you raised
with money?
Like what how did your parentstalk about money?
You know, how do you view money?
Maybe you view it as a a tool orjust a flat out source of stress

(19:35):
that you don't even want to dealwith, you know?
Uh, but you can ask each otherthese questions in a
non-judgmental way, in a waythat sparks curiosity about your
spouse.
Like, I really do want to know,like, how was it for you growing
up, you know?
Um, so I hear that you guys aresaying, like, man, we've had

(19:55):
these conversations.
Noelle, you were a little bitresistant in the beginning,
going like, oh gosh, Jake, like,here we go.
This sounds like a businessmeeting in our, you know,
marriage.
Put the sticky notes away.

SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
What are the sticky notes doing here?

SPEAKER_03 (20:08):
That's right.
That's right.
But then you just you kind ofsurrendered to it, right?
You just sort of like went,okay, this is your idea.
You kind of do this for aliving, you coach people on how
to have intentionalconversations so that you have a
vision for where you're going inyour business.
And so let's let's try it in ourmarriage.
And it sounds like it's beenvery fruitful for you, even to

(20:29):
the point of like at thebeginning of your marriage, you
guys did something wildlydifferent, quit your jobs and
traveled around.

SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
And we want to do that again, but this time we
want to do it with our girls.
So that's on our on our visionboard, right?
If we were to have a physicalvision board, we we have our
sticky notes, as you like tosay.
Um, but we hope to in the next,I don't know, five years or so,
take the girls around the worldfor a year or two and educate

(20:58):
them on the road.
And so that's gonna be somethat's gonna be a big goal that
we need to put a lot ofintention behind and
conversations and how are wegoing to make this happen just
like we did the first timearound.
So that's gonna be somethingthat we talk about.

SPEAKER_03 (21:14):
Yes.
And I know just scripturallyspeaking, you know, I talk about
how um where there is no vision,the people will perish.
This is part of what we believeas Christians, right?
It's like where there is novision, the people will perish.
That goes back to your commentabout Jake, if we were just like

(21:36):
winging this thing, like youwere spending money, I was
spending money.
We never talked about what wewant out of our life or this
vision that we have for ourchildren, these experiences we
want them to have, then we wouldjust be like blocking and
tackling as things come up andliving a reactive life versus a
responsive and intentional life.

(21:58):
And so again, if you'rethinking, if you're listening
and you're thinking, uh, I juststill don't get it.
These people are in a differentleague.
They have some privileges thatwe don't have, so this is not
for us.
No, this is totally for you,right?
These conversations are meantfor you, they're meant for your
marriage.
When you get in a union withsomeone, you say yes, it's for
life, it's forever.

(22:18):
So why wouldn't you want to makeyour partner, you know, more
aware of what your desires are?

unknown (22:25):
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
Noelle, you were gonna say something.
Go ahead.
Yeah, you know, when we starteddating, we weren't jumping right
into let's talk about ourfinances and what we would do if
we were a couple, right?

SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
But we were I did check your uh FICO score before
I well, you know, first date,you gotta run the right uh
background checks here.

SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
Um but if we were to just never discuss any of the
things that are contributing toour success, I came into our
dating relationship with studentloans.
I came into our relationshipwith certain money scripts that
I was raised with in California,and you have scripts from your

(23:07):
family and living most of yourlife in Florida, and our college
experiences were different, um,and how those college
experiences were financed.

SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
And you were paycheck to paycheck.

SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
I was living paycheck to paycheck in San
Francisco, living a really funexistence when I was 23 years
old in San Francisco and notpaying attention to where my
money was going.
If we, if I kept up thatbehavior, boy, we would we would
have some argument, we wouldhave some arguments, we would

(23:39):
have some difficultconversations, we certainly
wouldn't have a shared vision ofhow we can support each other.
So in terms of you know,frameworks and um debt
pressures, we we talked aboutthose things.
There was one time when we wewere dating and I took Jake up

(23:59):
to my my this cabin in LakeTahoe that my friends and I were
renting for the ski seasonbecause that was a responsible
thing for me to be spendingmoney on at 23 when I'm paycheck
to paycheck in one of the mostexpensive cities in the country.
But you know, that's okay.
And I we started having aconversation, and I said, Yeah,

(24:21):
I don't know, I don't know whereall of my money is going.
And he said, Well, let's let'slook at it.
If you're feeling brave, I'lllook at it with you.
And he taught me how to usemint, mint.com.
I don't think it's called mintanymore, but it doesn't exist
anymore.
Mint we we got all of my stuff,all of my accounts up on mint,

(24:43):
and I could see where I wasspending all of my money.
And it was not something I wasintentionally really thinking
about.
I was just having a good time.
And I sat there and I startedcrying because I realized that I
could be doing thingsdifferently.
I don't need to live paycheck topaycheck with the income that I

(25:05):
was making.
I could make different decisionsthat supported my goals, but I
had never taken a minute tothink about my goals.
And that was just me as anindividual.
So we took care of that.
We talked about my my studentloans and how we both envisioned
debt.
Um lots of conversations thereas a foundation of our

(25:27):
relationship when we weredating.
Now, will everybody go out inyour dating relationships and
have these conversations?
I don't know, maybe, but it'snot too late.
Like you were saying, it's nevertoo late to sit down and say,
wait a second, let's talk aboutthese money scripts that we have
in our head and the frameworksthat we were taught and how we

(25:49):
view spending money, carryingdebt, um, the power, oh gosh,
the power imbalance that mightexist in relationships if one
parent is making more thananother parent, or if a parent
is not working, um, how did howdoes that work out?

(26:09):
And having those conversationshelps build that shared vision.

SPEAKER_03 (26:14):
It does.
And I want to highlightsomething because this is such a
Jake thing to say, I feel like.
And I I don't know you near aswell as your wife, Jake.
But when she said you weredating at that cabin and you
said, you know, if you'd bebrave enough to check this out,
guys, listen to that.
Okay, that is what a good leaderof the family in a relationship

(26:36):
does, is you tiptoe in a littlebit and just say, I'm here to
hold your hand, I'm here to lookat the the good, bad, and the
ugly with you.
You can cry right here about howyou spent, you know,$435 at
Nordstrom or whatever on whatyou don't remember, right?
Or whatever the thing is.

(26:56):
And I feel very seen.

unknown (26:59):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (27:00):
Um but we're gonna look at the thing that has been
hiding so that we can firstassess it and then go, okay, no
judgment.
This is how you've been livingyour life, this is the
background you've come from, orwhatever.
Now, if we're thinking aboutputting our lives together, or
we have put our lives togetheras husband and wife, let's

(27:22):
accept that this is where weare, no judgment, and then make
a plan to create a vision andthen some objectives of getting
from where we are now to thisvision where we're going.
Yeah, like team Langdon has beento 49 out of the 50 states in
the last five years.
Boom.
Not because we were winging it,but because we went, oh, where

(27:44):
are we?
Okay, we can make someadjustments.
Let's get you know intentionalabout a plan and then let's
accomplish these goals as afamily.
So just the way you set it up,guys.
Uh, the conversation, gentle,right?
Non-judgmental.
Hey, if you'd be brave enough,if you have the courage to check
this out, I'm not gonna be mad.

(28:06):
It's better to know the realityso that we can go forward from
there.
Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
Yeah, I'd I'd I'd add to that um the underlying
principle that I'd recommendanybody listening who wants to
have more of theseconversations.
And you said the other half,which is non-judgmental or
whatever.
I would flip that and saycuriosity.
Approaching with curiosity, notjudgment.
And that's how I try to approachmost difficult conversations
because there's probablysomething I don't understand.

(28:32):
And it wasn't even that I wasjudging you with your money.
It was more just like, well, I'mI'm asking you, I don't remember
what questions specifically Iasked you at the time, because
that was, you know, however manyyears ago.
But the point was, I was askingyou questions and you didn't
really know.
And I provided a possible way tofigure that out.
And I asked, would you like tolook at that?
And it was, and it was honestlyin service of helping you and

(28:57):
like just what you said.
I believe that so strongly, andI think this is really
important.
It goes in line, and I won't goon a side tangent about
feedback, like in a professionalsense or whatever.
But feedback, just like thisconversation, is about moving
forward.
It's not about looking backwardsand punishing or condemning.
It's saying maybe what happened,so we can prevent it.
But more importantly, what arewe doing next?

(29:18):
And that's really what all ofthese conversations about vision
and frankly, all the other fourthat you listed is really about
if you're gonna tackle those,it's about how do we, what do we
do now?
What do we do next?
How do we move forward?

SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
Something I think that supports how to move
forward is education andlearning and being willing to
take in new information and newways of thinking about things.
Maybe your old frameworks you'veoutgrown them.
Maybe you are ready to take innew information from some books

(29:52):
or podcasts or what have you tolearn a new skill.
Um, and that's Something that Ithink is really important in our
relationship is that we continueto learn about money frameworks
and continue to take in newinformation.
Some books that have been reallyinfluential in our conversations

(30:14):
and how we are thinking aboutthings and talk about things are
The Psychology of Money, TheSimple A Simple Path to Wealth
by JL Collins, Die With Zero,some podcasts and things that we
listen to.
The Choose FI podcast reallystarted our journey on the fire

(30:37):
financial independence movementand Money for Couples with Remit
Seti.
These are things that we'restill consuming now.
And we still will push pause andsay, oh my gosh, did you listen
to that episode of Remeet?
And let's talk about how wewould have applied that type of
thing to our life.
So having this dynamicexperience where we're still

(30:59):
learning is a key function ofhow we can continue to mold our
frameworks and um continue tocontribute to that shared
vision.

SPEAKER_00 (31:09):
Now I'll just add to that briefly.
It's that we're continuing tolearn together.

SPEAKER_02 (31:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
So again, advice to anybody out there listening is
don't just consume these in asilo.
You have to have a willingpartner who's willing to go on a
journey with you, also.
So sometimes that may be moredifficult to convince someone.
But if you can have a can aconversation together about
something that you're learning,what a great way to like
sometimes it just takes a thirdparty.
Like, for example, I loveRamit's uh podcast.

(31:36):
It's called Money for Couples,like you mentioned.
He also has a book.
I'm not an affiliate, I don'tget any commission, but you
should definitely check it out.
It's great.
Because this is the stuff you'reasking me, is like a lot of the
things that he, or us rather,are the things that he talks
about on a show.
And what comes to mind is a lotof times it takes a third party
to raise a question or have atopic, and it's like, whoa, they
were talking about whatever, Idon't know, debt or combining

(31:59):
accounts or something.
Like, what do you think aboutthat?
And maybe you've been hesitantto ask, but sometimes that gives
you an entrance in in a softerway rather than what may be
perceived as like a like anattack or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 (32:12):
Yeah.
Boom.
I love that.
I love the idea of having anopenness to learn together as a
couple.
And Jake, I'm just gonnahighlight too what you said
about like, don't silo yourselfoff and listen to your own
podcast and never have aconversation with your spouse
about it.
Instead, be like, hey, send thatepisode to your spouse, right?

(32:33):
Say, hey, I'd love to talk aboutthis at the next State of the
Union meeting we have, or let'searmark this to circle back and
write down, you know, threethings that stood out to us
about this particular episoderegarding money and saving for
retirement or whatever, becauseit is a gentle sort of uh

(32:54):
outside the relationship type ofsource that can get the
conversation going, like yousaid, in a non-threatening way.
And sorry.
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 (33:04):
If you're doing it together, it can also address
that other symptom on your listof a power imbalance.
If it were just Jake consumingthis information and then coming
down to me and saying, I havethe knowledge or you will do
these things.

SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
Or even I learned this thing, I'm super excited
about let's do it.
That also is its own way a moresubtle, probably more realistic
power imbalance that people maynot realize.
And I fall prey to thatsometimes.

SPEAKER_02 (33:32):
Yeah.
And I want to be learningalongside, but it it takes a
conscious decision for me tosay, yes, I will go on this
learning journey with you.
It takes participation, right?
Yes.
Um but if if the knowledge andthe decision making or the or
the information that impacts thedecision making is only coming
from one side of therelationship, there's gonna be a

(33:53):
power imbalance there.
And one person might beresentful that the other gets
gets to make all of thesedecisions or gets to figure out
what direction we're goingbecause I'm choosing to not
participate in the in thelearning.

SPEAKER_00 (34:11):
And some people don't want to participate
because they're afraid or theyhave, yeah, for lack of a better
word, trauma or something intheir past that they're like,
well, I've made mistakes therebefore, or I've been hurt in
that realm before.
So I'm just gonna let my partnerdo it.
And then you can and again, Isee this on like Remit show all
the time, where it's likesomeone is whether knowingly or
not, abdicating all theirresponsibility to the other

(34:34):
person and then kind of saying,Well, I don't know, uh, Todd,
why are we in this situation?
Maybe not Todd.
Yes, I don't know, why are we inthis situation?
Um, and it's like, uh, partlybecause you're not
participating.

SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Why is the carpet all that, Todd?
That's right.
And all of a sudden there isthat power imbalance, and and
that further divides our union,right?
For all the pressure to be onone person and the other one's
like, I don't know, I stay outof it because I've made a
mistake and so I'm just notgonna do it, right?
I've seen that happen in couplesand some of our friends.

(35:07):
And um I think the the danger inone person kind of taking
responsibility for the finances,um, number one, it's pressure on
that one person, but number two,the other person gets so far
removed that um they just haveno pulse on the reality of what

(35:29):
things cost, how much they'repaying for living expenses,
adding another Netflixsubscription or you know,
whatever.
And then um it's a recipe foralso sort of living a second
double life.
Like, well, I could hide this,you know, he doesn't know about
this, he's not gonna look at it,he never looks at it, or she's

(35:49):
not gonna look at it.
Yeah, right.
And then I'll sneak this in.
And then it just like thisbreeding ground for sort of what
I call financial infidelity,where it's this ability to like
cheat a little bit and hide somethings and just like cover it up
because the other person isn'tinvolved or are, you know, not
not part of the whole thing.

(36:10):
So I love this idea um of sortof the way I I distilled down
your message about learningtogether is that um it's not
just like you get together andyou decide this is the way we're
gonna do our money and we'regonna have, you know, a joint
account and we're gonna have,you know, blah, blah, blah.
And then you just set it andforget it, but it's about

(36:31):
returning to this conversationabout finances because guess
what?
Finances are part of your futureuntil your death.
And even after your death, yourkids are talking about your
finances, whether you left themdebt or wealth or somewhere in
between, or you gave all yourmoney to charity, it's still
being talked about after yourdeath.
So this conversation is notgoing away.

(36:52):
This is a foundational part ofour union and our family, and
it's an important thing that wetake care of and that we steward
well so that our relationship isas good as it can be, and we're
using it as a tool to blessother people and do the things
that make uh sense for us andfor our vision, right?

SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Yeah.
Can I add something?
Please.
So, what made me what I thoughtabout when you were talking was
this kind of concept or thisphrase that's been around
forever, and I don't know ifanybody explicitly believes
this.
I'm sure there are people, butlike money is the root of all
evil.
We could debate some of themerits of that.
There might be some flavors oftruth, but within your marriage,

(37:34):
at least, it is a tool.
And I love analogies.
So, what if if you're using ahammer to put a picture up, are
you gonna not talk about likethe hammer or something like
that?
And this is a very ill-formedanalogy, but it is important,
and a lot of people probablygrew up not talking about money
or feeling like money, you'renot you're not supposed to talk
about that, or we don't talkabout that, or it's difficult to

(37:56):
talk about.
And I'm encouraging you, somaybe here's a better example.
Um, if you're gonna do aproject, a house project, you're
probably talking about whichtools should we use and how
should we use them and what dowe need and what do we need to
get help on, or whatever.
Your money should be the samething, and it's fundamentally no
different.
And it there's some cultural uhbaggage that comes with money
that I would encourage people totry to put aside um for these

(38:19):
conversations, even if it'sdifficult.

SPEAKER_03 (38:22):
Yes, it is a tool, and any tool could be used for
good or for bad.

SPEAKER_00 (38:27):
That's true, right?
Yeah, that's a cell phone.

SPEAKER_03 (38:31):
You could use a cell phone for talking and connecting
and texting and doing things,and you can use a cell phone for
all kinds of things that willget you into addictions and keep
you, you know, shackled to thatthing.
And yeah, so money is a tool.
And for us to think about thatum is a beautiful thing to
partner as husband and wife andgo, how do we want to use this

(38:55):
tool that we will earn everymoney every you know, couple
weeks and we spend every day toour benefit and to do it wisely
and without regret.

SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
And everyone should learn to use the tools.
Tools aren't just for boys.
That's right.

SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
Oh, that's a good ad.

SPEAKER_02 (39:18):
Tools are for girls too.
Tools are for everybody,everybody can learn how to use
the tools so you can beeffective with all of it and
have that conversation.
If you're not gonna hang up thepicture, I'm gonna hang up the
picture because I know how touse the hammer too.

SPEAKER_03 (39:33):
Yes, exactly.
Now I want to talk about anothersubject, which is kind of going
against the grain, because whenI think of team Wysaki, I think
of a couple who is not willingto settle for the status quo.
We're not just gonna float alongwith society and culture and the
way everybody, the way the herdis going.
Like we are going to beintentional about our life, our

(39:55):
our marriage, our family, andour finances.
And so, what does it look likein your circle of friends, maybe
even among your family members,to be counter-cultural when it
comes to family money decisions?
Oh, they started laughing.

SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
We just went to Hawaii on a family trip.
And the first thing that wetalked about is I am tired of
guessing who's paying for what.
Let's talk about that now beforewe even go on the trip,
basically.
I think it was met pretty well.

SPEAKER_02 (40:28):
It was great.

SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
I think it was good.
There was a there's a little bitof like, I don't know, we all
have different thresholds ofspending money and stuff.
And um I don't know.
I don't need everything to beperfectly even.
Just use this example to go alittle deeper.
I don't need everything to beperfectly even and perfectly
fair, so to speak, but I alsowant it to be reasonable.
Um, and I also don't want to beguessing, like, oh, who's gonna

(40:49):
pick up, pick up the wallet, uhtake the wallet out of the
pocket at dinner?
Uh, is my father-in-law gonna doit?
Should I do it?
Should we split it?
Let's just talk about that nowand avoid all the conversation.
And I feel like that's veryuncommon.

SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
And I think when I opened up that conversation with
the family, because it was myside of the family.
Um I think there was a littlebit of that.
I'm making I'm this is my owninterpretation.
I think there was a little bitof that, we don't talk about
money type of you were certainlynervous.

(41:23):
I was really nervous to send itbecause I didn't know how people
would um would take it, or um,if they would think, Noel, you
need to not be anxious aboutthis or you need to calm down,
or why are you worried aboutthis?
Don't be cheap.
Um and you know what?
I'm trying to embrace this ideaof if people have thoughts in

(41:47):
their head, um, just let themhave those thoughts.
That's right.
Okay.
Um, they can have thosethoughts.
But we still need to have theconversation, right?
Who's gonna pay who's who'spaying the check at dinner?
How are we splitting it?
How are we splitting groceriesin the house that we're all
staying in?
How do we want to handle thesetypes of conversations?
And we just opened up theconversation and I think had a

(42:07):
really good back and forth umvia email, even.
So that yeah, I I I think we dothings differently than a lot of
our friends and a lot of ourfamily.
So you you hit the nail on thehead, Jordan, that yeah, we tend
to go against the grain againstwhat a lot of of uh a lot of

(42:29):
people are doing or choosing howto go about their their marriage
or how they spend money or howthey handle their budgets or
their accounts.
Um one thing that jumps to mindfor us in terms of of how we
might be different from a lot ofour friends is we money I make

(42:53):
is our money.
Money he makes is our money.
It doesn't matter that we havecombined our accounts.
We've had combined accountssince we got married.
That's kind of just a simplifiermechanism.
Fine.
It's the framework that we don'thave separate ideas of the pool

(43:15):
of money that's coming in.
I was talking to Jake about ablueberry analogy.
I said, How about this for ananalogy?
We both have baskets to pickblueberries.
You have your basket, I have mybasket, I'm gonna go pick
blueberries.
I have a W-2 corporate job rightnow.
I might come back with a basketof blueberries that's more full
than his entrepreneur basket ofblueberries.

(43:38):
He might not be focusing onpicking blueberries right now.
He's planting more blueberrybushes.
So yeah, when we both come backto dump our blueberries in our
collective bin, I'm pouring moreblueberries into the bin.
Does that mean that I get to eatmore of the blueberries or spend
more of the blueberries or havemore power over deciding what we

(43:58):
do with the blueberries?
No, because his work is equallyas important and we're
supporting each other.
And I love it.
I think a lot of our friends oror or people that we interact
with on a regular basis, it'svery common to say, the money I
make is my money, and the moneyyou make is your money.
And I get to, or, or I make morethan you.

(44:22):
So I get to decide how we spend,and that's just how it's going
to be.

SPEAKER_00 (44:29):
Um, I don't know specifically about our friends
and family per se.
I we haven't talked to themabout it, but certainly again,
just use Ramit's show as a as alitmus test.
There's a shocking amount ofpeople on there who don't not
only do they not have combinedaccounts, but they don't view
the money as combined, which isjust two different levels.
There's like the level of are dowe have like functionally
combined accounts for like easeof accounting?

(44:50):
And separately, another questiondo we actually view the money as
our money or my money and yourmoney?
And then who's are you payingrent this month or am I paying
rent?
Like there's all these differentlevels.
Our ultimate um decision wascombine everything because we're
a team, we're working towardsthe same shared vision.
So it's ludicrous to us to comelike to separate money and to

(45:14):
have different people paying forit.
Different people, like we are ateam.
The blueberry analogy is great.
The other one I like to use whenI talk about this topic, which
can be a kind of a surprisinglyhot button topic.
And I know there are somearguments to say why things
shouldn't be separate, likelegally.
So whatever.
That's a whole nother topic thatI am I understand, and there are
some, there are some maybedeeper nuances to some of this

(45:36):
for some people.
But at the end of the day, it'slike if you were a company and
especially with like differentincomes, like I make relatively
little money, especiallycompared to Noelle, as I'm on
the relative beginning of myentrepreneurial journey, but we
are both working towards thesame goal.
And it's like if we were acompany and you were sales and I
was manufacturing or something,like I'm a cost center, but does

(45:57):
that mean I don't get to spendmoney?
No, that's ludicrous becausewe're a company trying to
accomplish a shared goal.
And I find it surprising that alot of people don't seem to see
it the same way.
And it just at the very least,it makes it way more
complicated.
And on the the worst end, Ithink it undermines your
marriage.
So I'll just drop that and leavethat there.
And we can pick that up if youwant to take that further.

SPEAKER_03 (46:19):
That is a great statement, right?
Separating things out, thatpower imbalance and looking at
money totally separately whenyou are a united team of like a
united team, the two become one.
Like that's a real thing.

(46:39):
Um it is a little bit of hell inyour marriage, inside your
marriage.
And if you've never combinedyour accounts, you might not
know.
You might not know sort of thisthis different way.
Um, and you might have just beenliving this like separate thing.
Well, we've always done you paythe rent and I pay the the

(47:00):
utilities and the groceries orwhatever.
But when you have been livingwith a joint account and a joint
vision for your finances andjoint uh goals for your the
unity of your family and how youwant to be intentional as
parents with with your kids atthe different ages and stages

(47:21):
that you raise them at, yourealize that this teamwork, you
know, uh it is really the onlyway to go to to find real joy
and happiness and connectionwith your life partner.
Right.
And so again, no judgment ofbeen living this way, you've
been having separate accounts,you've been doing this because

(47:43):
your parents did it, or you justdecided that was a thing.
But I would challenge you ifyou're listening and you're
you're doing things separatelyin your marriage to start
talking about maybe we shouldthink about combining things,
right?
A lot of things, our vision, ourfinances, our goals for our
kids, and and how we want tomove forward together, totally

(48:06):
together as a team.

SPEAKER_00 (48:09):
Yeah.
Can I can I give arecommendation on that?

SPEAKER_01 (48:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (48:12):
So I've been big on uh I went to Crafting Commerce
this year, and one of thespeakers um talked about tiny
experiments.
And I love this theme in mylife.
Instead of just thinking aboutstuff or just making decisions,
view changes that you want tomake as little experiments.
So if you're on the side of no,we should combine accounts for
any reason, um, again, I thinkthere are some legitimate

(48:33):
considerations.
I still think the ideal is tocontinue moving ever closer to
this combined model, is mystrong recommendation for
anybody who's in a seriouslycommitted relationship,
especially a marriage.
And think of some way that youcan test the waters and continue
moving a little bit closer.
You don't have to do it all atonce, but start the
conversation, start consideringheading that direction.

(48:55):
And honestly, it's your life.
If you choose not to, do it onpurpose, not because you're too
afraid to talk about it orbecause you disagree or
whatever.
So I am open to you can live thelife that you want to live.
That's fine.
I've made my pitch on why I, atleast somewhat, why I think it
is that you should considercombining expenses, for example.
But um, definitely have thatconversation if you haven't.

(49:16):
Uh I mean, unless you're alreadycombined, I guess you're you're
there.
Uh now you need to make sureyou're focused on your vision or
whatever.
So that's the thoughts that cometo my mind.

SPEAKER_03 (49:24):
I love that.
Tiny experiments, right?
Small steps over time yield bigresults, right?
It just take the first step,have the conversation.
And I also appreciate just yousaying, hey, if you choose to do
something, what the choice isyours.
We have been given free will tomake whatever choice we want.
We're not forced into anythingin this society, then do it on

(49:48):
purpose.
Do it intentionally.
Okay, this is why we're doingit.
We're gonna check up every threemonths, six months, nine months.
If we have, you know, uhseparate accounts, we're gonna
have our State of the Union orour, you know, quarterly, you
know, couples connectionmeetings where we talk about how
this is going, having ourseparate accounts, right?
Do it, do a similar process ofchecking in and maybe

(50:12):
renegotiating the contract everynow and then to see if things
need to be adjusted and thenmove with purpose in the
direction that you feel togetheris best for your relationship.

SPEAKER_00 (50:24):
Yes, nothing's set in stone.
And um, there's a phrase that'sescaping me.
Maybe I'll send it to you later.
Um, but it's it's essentially umyou could you can make a
decision, you can make it againlater.
Like it's not there, there'svery few things in life that are
uh you can't choose somethingelse later.
So the the thing I love to do isjust make a decision and then

(50:45):
you can try it again, just likeyou're saying.
You can reevaluate if you stillwant to stick with that or
change it.

SPEAKER_03 (50:50):
So good.
Yes.
I just had a conversation withmy husband before we sent the
kids off to school this morning,and I'm like, all right, I'm I'm
taking them to school every dayand picking them up after school
every day.
We have a little carpool inthere, and then he's doing the
Friday drop-off and pickup, andwe've always split it 50-50 in

(51:10):
the past.
And I said, I'm just letting youknow I'm gonna need a check-in
in about three weeks to justcircle back and see how this is
working because it may beperfectly fine and I've adjusted
and he's adjusted, and it mayneed tweaking.
And so I love that idea thatnothing's set in stone, but
coming back as a united team tosay, okay, how did that go?

(51:36):
What was good, what isn'tworking?
How can we adjust something on ajust a micro level that may make
a really big difference goingforward, right?
There's always hope, there'salways a chance to renegotiate
the contract, so to speak, andand try something different.
So good.

SPEAKER_00 (51:55):
So speaking of speaking of power imbalances,
you're the host and I'm theguest.
Um, but with that, I do I didwant to, I know we're close on
time, and I wanted to offer toshare a really simple exercise
people might be able to do tohelp get close, have some of
these conversations.
Maybe it's not exactly visionbuilding per se, that's a little
bit different.
But is that would you like me toshare?

SPEAKER_03 (52:15):
Yes, please give it to us.

SPEAKER_00 (52:17):
Okay, so what I would do, so let's let's just
say money conversations.
Let's kind of put visions uh onon the side.
There's a great exercise that'soften called the wheel of life.
And it's like you break yourlife into different aspects
marriage, kids, friends, money,health, you know, whatever,
stuff like that.
And there's different ways to doit.
So you can look that up, andthere's plenty of resources.

(52:38):
This is like a sliver of that,just focused on the money.
So if you want to have a moneyconversation, what I would do is
I would start with each uh eachpart of the couple, each person,
just do a little bit ofthinking.
It can only be if it doesn'tneed to be more than a few
minutes, and you rank on a scaleof one to ten.
Yeah, one to ten, because youcan't just choose dead in the

(52:59):
middle, by the way, but chooseone in ten.
How satisfied are you withmoney?
And it can mean whatever youwant, that's okay.
But you're starting with someopinion of yourself.
And I think I mentioned thisbefore.
Think for yourself first andstart to form some of your
opinions.
Then you come back together andyou share what you wrote, uh,
and you'll get some indicationif you're even on the same page

(53:20):
or generally in the same page.
Now the nuances are what'sreally important, but that's the
start of it.
Like, oh, one person is at athree and the other is at a
nine.
I think we have some stuff weneed to talk about.
Or maybe you're both at a seven.
That's also fine.
There's usually things you canstill talk about there.
So once you do that first step,the next step after you share is
then to just start having alittle bit of a conversation.
And I recommend um just likeasking some questions, like, oh,

(53:43):
why did you put that number?
And then I'll share why I putthat number, something simple
like that.
And then you'll just intuitivelyfollow the conversation down as
it goes.
One thing I definitely recommendis making notes as you go.
You don't have to make likecomprehensive notes, but if if
certain things come up thateither feel like they're a much
deeper conversation or uh like apotential idea to like solve

(54:06):
some of these problems.
I don't want you to talk toodeep right away.
I usually recommend cover somelike the high ground and then
decide where you're gonna digdeep or when, depending on the
time that you have.
And you definitely don't want tojump into solutions right away.
I never would recommend tryingto solve any issues that come up
right away, but you can notethose down.
Then the final step would bewhenever you're ready is to say,

(54:27):
okay, what things do we want todo differently?
And that's like really where weget into like the tiny
experiments idea, or however youwant to handle it.
There's a ton of ways you canjust pick something and try it.
Like you don't have to don't letprocess get in the way of making
progress.
That's good.
I just came up with that now.
Maybe I didn't, maybe I heard itsomewhere else, but I'll I'll
take credit for it now unlesssomeone can prove me otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 (54:45):
He's a genius.

SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
I'm a genius.

SPEAKER_02 (54:46):
He's a genius, folks.

SPEAKER_00 (54:48):
Um, but anyway, don't let uh uh process get in
the way of progress and findsomething that you can agree on.
And I would recommend pickingone thing, not a bunch of
things.
Just pick one thing, set alength of time that you're gonna
try it.
Let's it's often around thehabits that you're forming, or
the maybe it's a moneyconversation.
We're gonna do a check-in for 30minutes every Monday at this
time, put it on your calendarthen and decide when you're

(55:10):
gonna do that thing.
Um, and then try it and thencome back again at some point in
time.
Again, I could give specificrecommendations, but it kind of
depends.
Pick something that feelsreasonable, come back again,
reevaluate, and see where you'reat.
So that's that that's like amicro piece of the process that
we follow.
Um, we call it pillars, but it'sthe wheel of life, same kind of
thing.
And that's been really helpfulto drive conversations about um

(55:31):
what we want to change.

SPEAKER_03 (55:33):
Excellent.
I love how you you're justtalking about first assess where
are each of you when when youthink about money and how you
think about money.
And then let's let's take a lookat a little bit deeper question
about this, and then let's justdecide like, hey, what is it one
thing that we could dodifferently?

(55:55):
And we don't have to have aperfect plan, but let's just
start or let's just put theconversation on the calendar to
have a recurring moneyconversation um on Mondays, and
then when it comes upon ourcalendar, if we don't have know
what we're gonna talk about orhave a framework or have a quick
and pulled up on the computer orwhatever, no problem.

(56:15):
Just still show up for eachother, right?
Have a conversation, don't letprogress pro the process get in
the way of making some progress.
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
And instead just get the ballrolling, right?
So just start rolling with thisfinancial conversation with a

(56:36):
spirit of curiosity about yourspouse.
That's my favorite kind oftakeaway of this whole thing is
money is gonna be with usforever, but having a spirit of
curiosity and continuing to goback to the conversation and
refine your vision is alwaysgoing to bear fruit over the

(56:58):
years.
And you're gonna find that wow,once you take a look at what's
going on in the bank accountsand debt and all of this, and
you come up with a small plan totackle this stuff and to move
you down the field, um, you'regonna be like limitless when it
comes to accomplishing some ofthe most awesome visions and

(57:18):
goals that you have for yourmarriage and your family life.
And that includes charitablegiving.
That's one of my favorite thingsto do with money.
And that could be a totallydifferent conversation, probably
ought to be.
Um but the joy people get whenthey are able to give to causes
that they don't have the time tosupport and run themselves, but

(57:40):
mean something to them, that'spart of this money vision too,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (57:45):
Definitely.
Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 (57:47):
So good.
Noelle and Jake, it has beensuch a pleasure.
I could be on here for threehours with you.
But I know parents are busy,they have a limited amount of
time uh on the content theyconsume.
So we're gonna wrap it up here.
Jake, tell us um a little bitabout Intention Craft and if
somebody wanted to was in thecoaching business or um is

(58:09):
leading small groups, how theycould engage you for uh more
ideas on how to kind of havethese conversations, these
guided conversations in ameaningful way to get them to
the outcome that they're lookingfor.

SPEAKER_00 (58:20):
Yeah, thanks, Jordan.
So um, real brief context, ifyou did listen to episode 112,
I've actually pivoted in mybusiness since then, largely uh
thanks to Jordan kind of kickingthat off by asking me for help
with your parents' night outs,kind of took me back to my um my
design uh experience designroots.
So, what I do now is I helpcoaches and consultants build
and deliver world-class groupcoaching programs.

(58:42):
And you can find me onintentioncraft.com.
And if you're interested, I haveI'm trying to pour all my wisdom
into my crash course, uh, whichyou can find just on the
homepage there, and that'llshare as much of my wisdom that
I have to share.
And then if you ever want help,you can just reach out directly
and reply to one of those and itcomes straight to me.
If you are interested in seeingwhat we did on our trip around

(59:02):
the world, by the way, we stillhave our old blog up on everyday
new adventure.com.
And we've kicked around likewriting more about what we're
doing, especially if we're gonnado, or rather, when we're gonna
do that trip with our kids.
We'll probably write it on theretoo if you're interested in kind
of peeking up, uh peeking atwhat we're doing.

unknown (59:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (59:19):
I can't wait to circle back with you uh once you
return from that trip, becauseI'm just gonna endorse those
plans right now and those goalsand say that sounds fantastic.
They will learn more in twoyears than they could in 10
years sitting in a classroom.
So I think it's a goal worthpursuing.
And I might, I don't know, thinkabout how we could do something

(59:40):
similar to that ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 (59:42):
But I think you're doing what the kids say,
shipping it.
I think you're shipping it.
I think that's the right use.

SPEAKER_03 (59:47):
Do they still say that?
They said that a few years ago.

SPEAKER_00 (59:50):
Maybe that's not what they say anymore.

SPEAKER_03 (59:51):
We're old school.
We're very, we're very hip.
We are, we are awesome.
Well, let's uh let's ship thispodcast.
Episode out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:01):
I like it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:02):
Now listen, if you liked this episode, I'm going to
ask you to first share it withyour spouse.
No surprise there, right?
Because we want to learntogether.
And then share it with a friend.
Maybe someone you're going tohave over for dinner in the next
couple weeks, someone you'regoing to see at carpool and get
the conversation going with yourfriends.
If you share this podcast withpeople in your circle, you can

(01:00:26):
really start building each otherup, taking seriously this idea
of a shared vision in yourmarriage when it comes to
finances and using money as thetool it was meant to be.
So we'll circle back and have acouple other episodes about
finances to come.
So be sure to stay tuned for ourweekly episodes that drop on

(01:00:50):
Tuesday.
And uh check out our website,familiesofcharacter.com.
Team Wisaki, thank you again forblessing our community.
Thanks for having us, Jordan.
All right, guys.
Take care and I'll catch you onanother episode real soon.