November 11, 2025 • 54 mins
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What if the scoreboard you’ve been chasing isn’t the one that matters? Former Nike executive John Olinger joins us to unpack a life-altering season marked by a 40-day prayer, a sudden family tragedy, and a career fork that forced him to define success on purpose. John shares how losing his mother young and later his father reframed time as both scarce and uncertain and why that urgency pushed him to choose people over projects without abandoning excellence.
In this episode we discuss:
• redefining success from accomplishments to relationships
• the 40-day prayer that reframed career decisions
• counterbalance as a practical alternative to balance
• presence for kids now, training as they grow
• daily couple prayer as a protective habit
• from consuming content to taking courageous action
Be sure to check out John's book, Worthy Wins: Pointing Your Life to What Matters Most, to discover what truly matters in life.
The Thriving Family Accelerator provides an easy, 3-step process to lower stress, parent as a united team, and enjoy a true friendship with your spouse & relationship with your kids. Sign up now for this live parent coaching with proven methods for positively engaging your family and redistributing the mental load.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
At the end of your life, how will you know if you
truly won?
And I'm not just talking aboutprofessionally or financially,
but personally in your marriagewith your kids and with your own
soul.
If you're like most parentstoday, you are running at full
(00:49):
speed, work, practices,meetings, endless to-do lists.
And you're probably feeling liketwo ships passing in the night
with your spouse.
I know I can feel like that attimes, but you might be
wondering is this it?
Am I spending my time, energy,and intention on what truly
(01:10):
matters?
Listen, if that's you, pausewhatever you are doing and stay
with me because this episode isyour wake-up call.
But it's not only your wake-upcall, it's a beacon of hope.
Welcome back to the Families ofCharacter Show.
I'm your host, Jordan Langdon,and today's guest is someone who
(01:33):
knows what it's like to have itall and still feel the emptiness
of misaligned priorities.
John Olinger is a former Nikemarketing executive who worked
closely with legends like KobeBryant.
He had a thriving basketballcareer of his own and a
beautiful family.
He's married and has three sons.
(01:56):
And he also had a career thatlooked picture perfect on the
outside.
But then life hit hard.
He experienced a real loss inhis family, which forced him to
re-evaluate everything.
And that tragedy, like manytragedies do, became a turning
(02:17):
point for John.
And eventually the inspirationbehind his new book, Worthy
Wins.
John, thanks for being here.
Let's start at the beginning andtell us about some of the
mountains and valleys thatbrought you to this moment.
We're so glad to have you on theshow.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Awesome.
Thanks so much for having me,Jordan.
Honored to be with you and uhyour audience.
So mountains and valleys.
We hear that God's with us inboth of those.
And that has been the case formy life.
And uh I I grew up, had a greatlife.
I was only a child.
Um, my life first started to getuh a bit challenging when my mom
(03:00):
was diagnosed with breast canceruh for the second time.
She'd had it once before I wasborn and then had it again um
around the time I was turning10.
And um, unfortunately, herbreast cancer just ended up
ultimately taking her life.
And so when I was in sixthgrade, uh my mom passed away.
(03:21):
And that had such a profoundimpact on what happened from
there, and and even probably hasimpact on why I'm talking to you
today.
So that was a valley.
In the midst of that, which wasawesome, I um had an amazing
group of men who came alongsideme and had built this safety net
(03:42):
for me in that space.
And um, it's a longer story foranother day, but basically in
fourth grade, I started going toa young life group called
Campaigners.
It was a Bible study with highschool guys.
So I was in fourth grade hangingwith these older guys,
unbeknownst that therelationships that were being
built there would be in place tosupport me when I went through
this really difficult valley.
(04:04):
And so uh a guy named EricSchofield, amazing guy, invited
me to be a part of that group asa fourth grader.
It that was a mountain in themidst of those valleys.
So um I went on from there.
I've had some some awesomeexperiences.
I I played basketball in highschool and college and overseas,
and for sure, those weremountain moments for me.
(04:26):
I feel so grateful.
Ended up ultimately coming back,landing a job at Nike and
finding my way through um agigantic organization of highly
talented, highly intelligent,highly incredible people, and
and also a place where the onlything that ultimately the
(04:46):
company cares about is thatyou're successful at your work.
And so in the midst of my 10years at Nike, I had I had some
awesome mountaintops.
I'm sure we'll talk about someof them.
I had some low valleys whenmaybe even it might have looked
on the outside like they weremountaintops.
And then and then ultimately,you shared briefly about it in
the introduction, like my my bigvalley, my big unexpected moment
(05:10):
came when my my dad ultimatelyhad an accident.
And the and the crazy backgroundthere is that you know, I'd come
to a place in my career at Nikewhere I was really grateful, but
Nike was re-organing.
This was 2020.
Y'all know it very well.
Um, we'd be forever ingrained inour minds for different reasons,
but Nike was reorganing in thattime and it was possible I
(05:32):
wouldn't have a job.
And um so my wife had asked me,like, hey, have you thought
about moving east?
And she's from Florida, and sowe'd had that conversation a
bunch of times.
And when she ultimately asked methat question, usually when she
asked me the question the fewtimes she had before, I'd always
be like, Oh, I'm in the middleof this project or I don't know
what's gonna happen.
Like, I want to finish thisthing that is fun or uh
(05:53):
advancing my career, whatever.
But on this time, I said, youknow what?
I'm open to it because thereality was I didn't know if I
was gonna have a job at Nikeanymore.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
And so now at this time, did you have any children
yet?
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah.
We had three kids.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
We had three, you had your three boys, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
Yeah, but at that point in time they were five,
three, and one.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Not even one, five, five, three, and under one.
And so we were, you know, quitepossibly contributed to my
willingness to consider thiswas, you know, we were in Oregon
at the time, and I don't knowwhere all the listeners are at
on here, but they're all overthe country probably.
And Oregon was locked down.
Like that, that's you know, wewere we were five months into
lockdown with three young,energetic boys, and um, they
(06:39):
were they were awesome, butyeah, we were we were like
retired and we're not gettingmuch space.
And so the thought of movingeast to be a little bit closer
to family, uh to Aaron's familywas was appealing.
And um so when I said yes tothat question, she said, Well,
what are you scared?
Are you scared of leaving Nike?
And I said, I'm I'm not scaredof leaving Nike.
(06:59):
She said, Well, what are youscared of?
I said, I'm scared of leaving mydad.
And my dad was in Oregon, butlike I said, I was an only
child.
And so the thought of movingaway from him, he lived about 45
minutes away from us, wassomething that I wasn't super
excited about.
And and he and my stepmom werenot that far away, but they were
also like, it was gonna be toughif we were gonna go somewhere
else.
And so ultimately we decided topray for 40 days, and so we set
(07:25):
out on this 40-day prayerjourney of saying, like, hey,
God, shape our hearts in thistime.
Give us direction, give uswisdom, discernment about what
might be best.
And so we started praying.
And um, I think probably whenmost people set out on a prayer
journey, or at least I'll speakfor myself, there's optimism
about the good that's gonna comefrom that.
(07:47):
And and like, God, what are yougonna do?
It's gonna be awesome.
Um, and that was not ourexperience of our 40-day prayer
journey.
Um, because five days in, uh, weget to day five, and that will
be good.
Just a second.
Let me interrupt you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
All right, come on.
Because I know, I know this isgetting getting good, but I love
the details.
Okay, when you said you and yourwife set out to pray together 40
days, what does that actuallylook like?
If we're a fly on the wall, areyou guys like once a day, you're
getting together, you'rekneeling down together, you're
holding hands, whatever.
The two of you are praying, orboth of you are playing like
(08:24):
individually.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
That's a great question.
So it's both.
And and what we did, we weweren't like so.
Every night as is, we we prayevery night before bed together.
So that's like natur, naturallya rhythm already in our life at
that point, and something we'vebeen doing since basically we
got married.
And so that that was alreadythere.
And then there was individualsort of moments where we both
(08:47):
were saying, Hey, we're we'reboth leaning in, connecting with
the Lord on this, and then wewould have times in the midst of
that, outside of that, when wehad breaks in the chaos from
our, you know, our boys beinghome for where we'd where we'd
do it together.
So it was a blend, but some wastogether and some was on our own
of sort of seeking God in that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Great.
So the intention was set thatyou were going to be praying
about the move specifically for40 days and kind of on your own
together and all of that.
Love it.
Okay.
Now tell us what happened likefive days into this.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So um we're we're praying allyou know, things are things are
good.
Um, and then I get a phone callon the morning of the the fifth
day of praying, and it's mystepmom calling to tell me that
my dad has had this freakaccident.
And um he basically went to thegrocery store really early in
the morning because he was umtrying to avoid the crowds in in
(09:44):
Oregon.
And he was, you know, he was inhis 70s and he was like, all
right, I'm gonna go to thestore.
And um it was this wasSeptember, so it wasn't like it
was slippery outside, but um itwas one of these mornings where
if you're in a place where it'sbeen warm for a while, it hasn't
rained for a while, the firstrain, you know, creates some
some slippery ground.
And um, it had rained thatmorning, and somehow uh in the
(10:05):
midst of loading his groceriesin his car, he he slipped and
ended up hitting his head andended up with a traumatic brain
injury.
And so um we were like, wow,okay, God, that's not really how
we saw this this journey going.
And we decided in the midst ofthat, all right, well, we're
gonna keep praying.
This isn't like, okay, my dadhasn't had an accident, so we're
(10:27):
not we're not stopping, but thatwas definitely not how we saw
the the the journey going.
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
And so at that time, did you say could because I'm
just thinking personally, like Ican be quick to interpret what I
think is God's message.
Like, there it is, day five, dadslipped, he he had a bad injury,
that means we should stay here,right?
Because like that was a suresign that like something is
going on with him.
(10:54):
So but it doesn't sound like youguys looked at it in that way.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Yeah, it was uncertain.
And it it wasn't it, it was itwas something, but it was we we
didn't we didn't take it as thisis exactly what it is.
Okay.
But it was like, okay, let'skeep praying.
And ironically, I I was supposedto have a day of solitude that
day.
I I had like been planning to gohave that day of solitude, and
(11:22):
so still, I still went, butobviously it was uh a different
kind of day than expected.
So I I remember sitting there atthis by a lake, uh not that far
from our house, but uh by alake, a restaurant that had this
this space where you could sitoutside and just being like,
what the heck just happened?
Um and and so much uncertainty.
(11:44):
You know, he they put him inICU, but it was just not clear.
And because COVID was happening,um, it wasn't like I could go
there.
Uh because they would only allowone person per family per day to
be able to go in.
And so my stepmom went, which istotally made sense and and
right.
And I'm just sitting therewaiting for updates.
(12:05):
And and you know, there wasn't alot of updates other than he was
in and out of consciousness, andthey ended up intimating him.
And I ended up going to see him,I think about five days in, like
once he'd stabilized some.
So in the midst, we're justpraying and wondering and
waiting.
And I'm my stepmom and Iultimately ended up alternating
(12:26):
days.
So she'd go one day, I'd go thenext day, and we just sort of
did that for the rest of thetime.
And in the midst of praying, mymy wife at the time actually
worked for Young Life.
And so, in the in about 20,20-ish days into the praying,
she felt like it was time forher to take a step back from
that.
So she tapped out in the middle,she didn't like quit her job
(12:48):
immediately, but she let themknow, like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna transition out.
So that that happened in themidst, and then um we're still
praying, getting close to theend, and on day 39, I get an
email from HR at Nike, and andthey're like, Hey, you got a
meeting tomorrow morning.
And uh anybody who's been a partof a big organization or has
(13:08):
been in the midst of reorg knowsthat when HR sends you an email,
you're going to find out yourfate in that meeting.
So, not day 39, not day 41, day40 of the 40-day prayer journey
was the day I found out my fateat Nike.
And Nike said, We love you andwe have this great job for you.
(13:29):
The only problem was that thejob was a great job, but it
wasn't the type of job that Iwanted.
And it was a great job.
It was I was I was the and Iultimately, here's the
foreshadowing, I I took the joband I'll explain why.
But the job was leading globalbrand marketing for men's
running.
So it was a great job, a jobthat tons of people would love
(13:50):
to have.
But for me, I had been tellingthem for two years that I wanted
a different type of job.
And the type of job I wantedwasn't about title, it wasn't,
it was about influence and how Icould spend my life and my work
helping pour into people so thatthey could have an easier
journey at Nike than I did.
unknown (14:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Because I I got thrown in the deep end of the
pool and I figured out how toswim and I had had good success
in the company, but it's a verysecret swim kind of place.
I thought I could help peoplelearn to swim better.
And so I'd been telling mybosses um that's what I wanted.
But there was one problem.
Five of my six bosses were firedin the wave of job cuts before
(14:34):
me.
So all the people I had, five ofmy last six bosses were fired in
that previous round.
And so when it came time for meto get placed somewhere, and and
(16:12):
part of it was organizationally,there were just lim limits to
what they could do.
But all the people who knewexactly what I want were no
longer around either.
And so they they they showedenough to say, hey, we believe
in you, we're gonna give you ajob.
If you work and running at Nike,that is that is a they've
they've signed off and said,Hey, um, we we give you our seal
of approval.
And so when it and it was a takeit or leave it.
(16:33):
It wasn't, hey, can can I seethe menu and pick some other
item?
It was, do you want this job orwould you like to take a
severance package?
SPEAKER_01 (16:41):
Ooh, and that was day 40, all of that in that one
meeting.
SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And um, and it was still unclearwhat what was gonna happen with
my dad.
Is he gonna fully recover or ishe gonna be fully dependent on
people for the rest of his lifeand just be a shell of himself?
Those were sort of the twoextremes that we were wondering
about.
And so when they said, Hey, doyou do you want to be unemployed
(17:06):
or do you want to have a job?
I said, I'll take that job.
And when do I get to spend moreof my time on people?
And they said, uh, we don'tknow, maybe a year, maybe a year
and a half, maybe two years.
And so what that day meant forme was it was the day that I
knew that I was free to leaveNike whenever that time came.
(17:31):
Not because I wanted to, butbecause um they didn't know when
they could allow me to do thething that I had said was really
important to me.
And it wasn't that I didn't getto impact people or influence
people, but I had my my previouslike basically three years had
been like leading huge projects.
And you're you're you're leadingpeople in that, but you're all
(17:53):
your investment is into theproject, and and you get a
little bit of like osmosis intothe people by doing that.
And I I was saying, like, hey, Iwant to spend 90% of my time on
the people and helping themthrive and become the best
selves because that will improvethe way that we do work at Nike.
So we get to the end of the day,you know, and I my wife and I
(18:14):
get our kids down, and wefinally get the chance to talk
about the 40 days and say, Well,what do you she says, what do
you feel like God said in the 40days?
And I said, I think God said, Itrust you.
You're free to choose.
And she said, Yeah, I feel thesame way.
And so our choice at the end ofthat was to say, we might stay
(18:38):
or we might go, but for nowwe're gonna have this holding
pattern and see what happenswith my dad.
And we weren't ready to pack upand go, but we also weren't
ready to say, hey, we're stayingforever.
And unfortunately, like his bodyand his brain just could not get
back on the same page, and so heended up passing away about 20
days later.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Gosh, John.
That's a wild two months.
Yeah, 60 days just took usthrough.
And what I heard is the freedomthat on day 40 you felt free.
You felt this heavenly fathergive you permission to follow
(19:22):
the passion that he had putinside of you as a young boy.
Like, John, I'm joining you.
I join you in your passions.
I put these passions within youfor a purpose, right?
Like you are free.
You are free to do this, but atthe same time, you've got this
(19:45):
grief that you're about to face.
You feel freedom, right?
In in the decision to followyour passion and your career,
but then 20 days later, you gethit with this wave of loss.
Again, how do you get throughthis?
You and your wife, Erin, how doyou make sense of this?
(20:06):
How do you how are younavigating this?
You've got an idea of whatyou're gonna do with Nike for a
while, but then you'reprocessing the loss of your dad
and the news of that, and you'restill in Oregon.
How do you go about as a teammoving through that while you're
raising three kids and shutdown?
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
When you phrase it all that way, it's like, how did
we do that?
And think back to if we hadn'tbeen praying, how would we have
handled it?
And how might that have beendifferent if we hadn't entered
into that step of inviting Godin?
Because it could have easilyjust been like, all right, well,
(20:45):
do you want to move east?
And I could be like, sure, let'slet's consider it.
And am I sure that there's timesGod speaks audibly to things?
Yeah, for sure.
Most times I don't get theaudible answer, but that doesn't
mean that I shouldn't invite Godinto the journey that we
shouldn't have invited God in.
We invited God in, and that thattransformed that.
(21:05):
I don't think God was pullingthe puppet strings of and
saying, Oh, well, day five, hereyou go.
Like, here's this crazy thing.
I think like God joins us in thejourney of life as the
brokenness of the world unfolds.
So I think the reality was wewere in survival mode in the
midst of that, but also we knewwe were in it together.
Ultimately, when the dustsettled from my dad's passing,
(21:27):
um, I I told my wife that Ithink we needed to move to be
close to her family.
And that wasn't necessarily whatshe had envisioned as moving
east.
So she chose to trust me inthat, even though it wasn't
necessarily exactly what she hadplanned or wanted.
And we went on that journey ofpacking up our lives and saying
(21:48):
goodbye to some really greatfriendships and stuff in Oregon.
SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
So when you say that wasn't necessarily her idea, was
she thinking like a couple hoursaway or living on the beach?
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Yeah.
I mean, so her parents live inNortheast Florida, and so it was
more like, are we going toNashville or Raleigh or
somewhere that's like an hourflight away from Florida rather
than a full day of travel to getthere from Oregon?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:16):
And there were lots of reasons for that.
And it wasn't that I I had neverplanned either.
I wasn't thinking we'd ever moveto her hometown.
But the the change in ourcircumstances and the reality of
her parents at the state in lifethey were in and wanting to be
involved and in the mix with ourboys.
(22:39):
And for me, you know, no longerhaving my parents alive, it's
like what's it all for?
Like, why wouldn't we go be nearthem?
And and I don't think that'snecessarily the right choice for
everybody.
Every family is different andevery circumstance is different.
But for us in that moment,that's what I felt like the
(23:00):
right choice was.
And that choice was foundedbecause I wanted to pick the
pieces back up, and I wanted tofind ways for us to be connected
to our parents, and I wanted tofind ways for us to be more
connected as a couple, and uhlike having some other hands in
the in the midst was going to behelpful.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
And I can tell Erin is a godly woman because of one
word that you said, which wasshe just trusted me in this.
It wasn't necessarily the ideathat she had in mind originally,
but I felt that that's sort ofwhere I'm using my own words
here, but I hear you saying,like, I kind of felt like the
(23:39):
Lord was calling us to thatproximity to her family.
And she followed, she trustedand she allowed me as the man,
the husband in thisrelationship, the father to
these kids to lead.
Because I think as a woman, Ican say there are so many times
when I take the reins from myhusband, or I'm like, get in the
(24:02):
passenger seat or the back seat,and I'm I'm gonna get in the
driver's seat and I'm gonnadrive this decision, you know,
down the road.
And I regret it every time.
And it's the time where I canlet go of the wheel, move over
in the passenger seat, you know,allow him to be fully in the
driver's seat and taking thewheel, that it's like, this is
(24:22):
the right order.
This is what God wants, is forthis man to lead our
relationship and lead ourfamily.
And even if the decision hemakes ends up blowing up, we're
in it together, right?
Like that's that's cool, that'sgreat.
We we don't expect perfectionfrom you, but to give you that
(24:44):
kind of trust in that tendermoment in that grieving time of
you, that's a beautiful thing onher part.
And for you to to just, youknow, suggest this in confidence
to her.
I love that unity.
It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
Yeah, she she's amazing and she's so capable and
so smart and so wise.
And yet she really chose to leanin to that and say, all right,
let's do it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:11):
Yes.
Okay, so fast forward, you're inFlorida now, and uh you got your
your three kids.
What year is this now?
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
This is like We moved in 2021, so we've been
here about four years now.
Okay, okay.
And so it's yeah, which iscrazy.
We just hit four years and it isabsolutely flown by.
SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
Oh, I'm sure.
Well, you mentioned right beforethat that you said, you know,
once we got here, we were justthinking like what what matters
the most?
You know, where are we spendingour our time and you know, our
energy, and what are what are wethinking about?
You know, how did thistransition lead up to this book
(25:57):
that you just released?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
You know, the the the thing was the choice to come
here was was founded a lot bythe some of the realizations
coming out of my dad's death.
And so when my dad died, he was74 and I was 37.
And it was the first time well,I should take this back.
(26:23):
Like I knew when I was a kidthat life was finite because my
mom passed away.
I had a seriousness about myselfthat my friends that people
didn't understand becausebecause I had seen somebody
close to me die.
Yes.
But like like most things, youknow, the further you get away
from an event and experiencesomething, you know, the
sensation fades, the intensityfades.
(26:46):
And have I been prettyintentional in my life?
Would my friends describe me asintentional?
Yes, for sure.
And yet at the same time, likemost people, I think, I'm doing
the best I can, trying to tryingto live about what I can, but
life is going and it's movingfast.
And the more variables that comein, the the more likely that's
the case.
And so we're going along and weget there, and then it's like,
(27:09):
oh man, I might be halfway done.
And my dad, my dad being mebeing half my dad's age, was
like that, like could I livelonger?
Yeah.
Could I live shorter?
Yeah.
But the reality is if I live aslong as he did, then I'm at the
halfway point.
Yes.
And and you know, when thingsstart to become scarce and we
know that they're running out,they become more valuable.
(27:31):
And so for me, it was thisrealization of like, I don't
want to waste any of thisvaluable time that I have left.
And what happened was Iultimately ended up saying, I'm
gonna, I want to share myreflections with my friends
because most people my agehadn't lost both their parents.
(27:53):
And so I had a perspective thatmost of my friends didn't have.
And so I said, All right, I'mgonna start writing a weekly
email to about a hundred guysall over the country, all over
the world, people that I love,and just say, hey, I'm gonna
reflect on what does it mean towin in the places that matter
most.
(28:14):
And so I started writing thisemail, and guys, you know, were
responding and just encouragingme to keep going and being
talking about how they relatedand talking about how it was
causing them to think.
And so I that was sort of thefoundation of where worthy wins
came from.
And uh, as I went along, youknow, I was writing the email
and people sent it to a friend,and then I ultimately turned the
(28:34):
newsletter public and juststarted just wanting to
encourage people to learn fromthe things that I had learned.
Not because I had it all figuredout, but because I had a
perspective that other peoplemay not have.
And ultimately what I realizedthrough my time at Nike, and
this is where the Nike partcomes in, you know, I would go
sit in these conference rooms,Jordan, and there'd be 20 people
(28:57):
around the table, all amazing,bright, competent people.
And all 20 of them would have adifferent idea about what
success looked like.
And so that taught me this truththat is true in organizations,
but it's so true in our ownlives.
(29:17):
So the biggest takeaway I hadfrom my time at Nike was this
learning that winning issubjective.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
And in order to truly win, we have to, we have
to make it objective.
Otherwise, we could do allinvest all of our time, energy,
and attention into something andactually get to an outcome that
isn't what we desire.
SPEAKER_01 (29:35):
And yes.
Like you're saying, uh at theend of your life, how have you
spent your time, energy, andattention?
What was it going towards yourvision of success?
And as Christians, right, ourvision of success has to look
different from the world.
SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
And, you know, there's the reality is we're not
all the same either, just in thesame way as those conference
rooms, like we're all wired,created different.
God, God has said that eachperson is unique.
They have, you know, their ownstory.
So, so not everybody's gonnadefine success the same in our
lives.
But what we're at risk of isultimately winning at things
(30:18):
that don't matter.
And the world is gonna tell us abunch of things that matter.
You know, our devices are gonnapull us into things that don't
actually matter in the end.
And so it goes back to that thattime at Nike.
So I'd sit in these conferencerooms and everybody would have a
different idea of success.
And so then I'm sitting in thisrole where I'm the global brand
(30:38):
director for Kobe Bryant.
And Kobe has this tragicaccident, his daughter dies,
these other wonderful peoplepass away unexpectedly and
tragically.
And I'm one of the few people inNike that has Kobe in their
title at that point.
And my job as the global branddirector is to help steward the
brand of Kobe.
And so, what that ultimatelymeans is that amongst all the
(31:00):
well-intentioned, amazing peoplein Nike, ultimately I need to be
the one who helps Steward.
What are we gonna do in responseto his passing?
And because winning issubjective, how are we gonna
make sure that whatever we do isactually successful?
And you have people from China,Europe, the Philippines, New
(31:22):
York, LA, Chicago, Oregon, wherewe were, everybody had an
opinion.
And so what we had to do is wehad to get extremely clear about
what success looked like.
And so ultimately there ended upbeing one slide that went into
every single deck that wentaround the company.
And the slide said this it said,our objective is to pass Mamba
(31:43):
mentality on to the nextgeneration of athletes, starting
with Gen Z girls.
Wow.
And it didn't mean that otherpeople didn't matter, it didn't
mean that Gen Z boys didn'tmatter, it didn't mean that you
know, older generations, itdidn't mean that any of those
people didn't matter, it justmeant there's gonna be tons of
ideas about what we could dohere.
If your idea doesn't pass mamamentality on to the next
(32:05):
generation of athletes startingwith Gen Z girls, we're not
doing it.
Very clear.
Yes.
But then you in China, you inEurope, you in New York, LA,
great.
If you're doing that, awesome.
Have at it.
Like do it your own way, do itthat thing.
But like we had to we had to geteverybody clear about what
success looked like so that thenthey could go pursue success.
(32:28):
There was actually when we gotto the end of the project, we
were going to say, hey, we wegot there.
SPEAKER_01 (32:35):
Whoa.
That is awesome.
So many things are popping upfor me first.
One of the things I want tocomment on is that I I totally
see the red thread throughoutthis whole thing.
It's like the loss that youexperienced with your own
parents from the time you were,you know, in sixth grade through
(32:57):
the loss of your father and thento be the global brand marketing
guy for Kobe Bryant and thenexperience his loss.
This was just God's design tohave you in this role and for
everybody to be looking at youand saying now what are we going
to do?
(33:17):
What are we going to do now thatthis amazing famous athlete has
been tragically killed alongwith others in this horrible
accident you know what is mostimportant and their eyes are on
you it sounds like you are theone that had to make kind of
this decision on what doessuccess look like now for the
(33:43):
followers of this fine athleteand then for you to be like and
your team to say we're we'repassing on the Mamba mentality
to specifically Gen Z girls likewe are passing on the legacy of
Kobe Bryant in this way.
(34:04):
Like I just see it like it justmakes sense like God sets us up
for these things in life that wecould never see coming or never
really truly understand why am Iin this role?
You know why is everybodylooking to me for this but it's
like with your experience andyour personal connection to loss
(34:28):
it had to have given you theplatform to understand what
people who maybe idolized Kobewere going through or just
looked up to him you know neededin that moment.
Wow.
Thank you for sharing that andjust the inner workings of the
business and like what happensright you could all put your
(34:50):
ideas in and everybody could goin a million different
directions but ultimately that'snot going to pass on the legacy
of this man.
And so it sounds like thatparticular situation in
combination with the otherlosses that you've experienced
in your life and just listeningand hearing from God is like
(35:10):
okay what really matters rightwhat is a worthy win like what
is winning when it comes to yourlife and and your wife and your
kids and your soul at the end ofit all is that kind of was that
the springboard for like thisreflection email that you
started sending out and and sortof this following that you had
(35:34):
to consider what you're doingwith your time your energy and
your attention yeah yeah becauseultimately right the the world
tends to define success by whatwe accomplish and it doesn't
mean that accomplishments arebad.
SPEAKER_02 (35:51):
You know God is God has put us on the planet to
steward the planet and do thingsand do well.
But if we overinvest inaccomplishments and underinvest
in relationships then we'reultimately going to get to the
end of our lives and not haveone in the places that mattered
most.
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
And so we can't afford to do that.
We don't have time.
SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
No and we don't the two truths about time that have
become abundantly clear for methrough this process is is one
for everybody time is runningout so it's it's scarce.
And the second one is that it'sindefinite we don't actually
know how much time we have youknow we might have tons we might
have not very not very much andso if we spend too much time
(36:34):
focused on our accomplishmentsthen we're at risk of of missing
on things that that matter most.
And so I I wrote the book in away you know my my faith is
laced through it and it will itwill encourage people who are
followers Jesus and it also is abook that I wanted to write in a
way that my bosses, my VPs, theleaders at Nike who have given
(36:55):
their whole lives to Nike couldread it and say wow what do I
really want to win at?
What really matters?
And I start the I start the bookwith a a question from John
Ortberg where or a quote fromJohn Ortberg that's basically
like hey the world doesn't teachus to pay attention to what
matters and so the startingpoint for all of us is like so
(37:16):
what really matters?
What is most important?
And we're all going so fast.
Just like people were going sofast on that project with Kobe
they had all their ideas wecould do this we could do this
we could do this we could dolike everybody's just going.
And so worthy wins is a is acall to action to just pump the
brakes for a second and stop soyou can define what what
(37:37):
actually matters the most toyou.
And it might be different thanwhat matters the most to me.
But the the things that matterthe most at the end ultimately
are relationships.
And the accomplishmentaccomplishments matter as well
but the relationships matter themost and for me you know that
starts with my personalrelationship with the Lord it
starts with my physical healthbecause if I'm not if I'm not
(37:59):
healthy haven't taken care ofmyself then and haven't and if
I'm I'm not connected to Godthen that impacts everything.
So that's the starting point andthen okay my wife she's a
relationship at the end of mylife I want to be able to say
hey we were connected in a worldof disconnection we were
(38:20):
connected and so how do we fightfor that and in my current age
of my kids and right seasonschange the current age of my
kids at their age like presenceis the thing that I'm trying to
bring them.
As they start to get a littlebit older that's gonna like
still presence is important butI'm gonna transition more into
training and helping preparethem that much more for them
(38:42):
going out on their own.
But if I if I'm missing on thosefirst three buckets myself in
connection with God, my wife andmy kids great and so I tell a
story in the book where aboutseven years into my journey at
Nike I'm leading this awesomeproject.
So I'm the basketball lead forthe Olympics for 2020.
(39:03):
And that basically means allright well I'm leading the
basketball work and so we'regonna tell this awesome story
and you can read the book Idon't need to tell you all the
details about it.
They don't really matter here'swhat matters two weeks or two
months before we're supposed tohost all these athletes on
Nike's campus, my wife has ourthird son, which is awesome.
I take a few weeks off I go backto work and it's this is like
(39:23):
right after Thanksgiving and sowe're sprinting because we're
gonna host all these athletesright after January 1st.
unknown (39:29):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (39:29):
So we're sprinting and yet at home my wife's
suggesting to have a third kidyou know at that point we have
we have three boys four andunder so it's it's chaos and
this is pre-COVID but it's stillit's still and I'm just cranking
and and this is like pre-Zoomculture anything.
So like we're doing likeconference calls but I'm
coordinating all these peopleacross Nike you know eight or
(39:50):
nine different departmentsgetting everybody on board.
Great we're all lined up it'sI'm going going going um and I
get to Christmas Eve and I havethis harsh realization Jordan I
didn't get my wife a meaningfulChristmas present.
And it wasn't that she wanted itwasn't about money spent.
It was that what she wanted toknow was she was thought of that
(40:13):
she was worthy of my time,energy and attention as she
raises our then six week oldchild.
And so against Christmas Eve andrealize that I don't have one
and there's nothing I can do tosalvage a meaningful gift.
And so I had to do this walk ofshame where I went and confessed
to her hey I babe I d I droppedthe ball.
(40:35):
And she was gracious but sohurt.
Oh and I didn't intend to notget my wife a Christmas present
right I believe you I didn'tintend that but intentions
aren't gonna get us there ontheir own and so like I don't
want to and to the project atwork winning.
(40:58):
Everybody loved it everybody washappy received super well at
home I lost in you know thesecond most important
relationship in my life and sothat was a really that was a
really pivotal moment for me andin thinking through you know all
all my time at Nike was wasteaching these lessons and
weaving it together butultimately you know then my dad
passes away after that and allthis stuff and it's like hey I'm
(41:22):
at risk of winning at thingsthat don't actually wow and I
think everybody else is too Iagree with you.
SPEAKER_01 (41:29):
I agree with you we are all just a hair away from uh
these misaligned priorities andand if you're listening right
now going uh I'm my prioritiesare misaligned right now I am
more focused on on work.
I love my career John I lovewhat I do at families of
character coaching parents doingall this and at the end of the
(41:52):
day if I prioritize this over myspouse my kids my relationship
with God the whole thing hasbeen flipped on its head yeah
and and I am actually idolizingmy career and my work and my my
business and so I I heard yousay you know it was the walk of
(42:16):
shame man I had to come to herand admit that I had prioritized
this project over people overher right and that there wasn't
anything I could do with it.
I I was caught red handed andshe wasn't gonna have something
the next day and uh again awoman of God she has grace right
(42:37):
she's able to forgive even inher hurt uh I had a client one
time and she had she had lost achild and and a nurse told her
she said you know during yourgrieving the thing that is going
to feel most unfair to you isthat you're going to have to
forgive people you're the onethat experienced the loss but
you're going to have to forgivepeople they're gonna say the
(43:01):
stupidest things the mostinsensitive things you're gonna
compare their story to yours andwhatever and you are called to
higher ground.
You are called to forgive themin your own pain.
And I hear that that's what yourwife did that maybe it wasn't
perfect the way she did it orher response to really well
considering the circumstancesshe did awesome.
(43:22):
Man but that's another teachingpoint for us listeners is like
you know you're not gonna get itright personally I'm gonna fall
down and I'm gonna need theforgiveness of my spouse and
Josh is going to forgive me overand over when I prioritize
things above you know ourrelationship with God and our
relationship with each other andour kids and the important part
(43:43):
is that we get back on the horseright that we go okay this is
the turning point it's time toreorder the priorities in our
lives and uh focus on whatmatters most those things that
are worthy wins.
SPEAKER_02 (43:58):
Yeah yeah and and here's here's the other part
that I I think for a long time Ifelt like in order to do worthy
wins I needed to walk a tightrope and that I needed to have
perfect balance and that was theonly way that I was going to get
worthy wins.
And I was I was sitting withthis pastor his name's Daniel
(44:18):
Grothy from Colorado Springs andI was sitting with him a couple
years back and he's similar tome a little a little further on
in life than me but same thingthree kids you know big
responsibilities at his churchwife you know lots lots of
things going and I'm like heyman how do you balance it all
and he's he looks at me Jordanand I'll I I will never forget
the look he just says balance isa myth.
(44:41):
You dropped the mic bro and nowI need to know now I need to
know more.
So can you tell me more and hegoes on to tell me like
ultimately the reality is lifeis constantly going to pull us
out of balance and so if if wethink that we're somehow going
to walk the perfect typerope itit's not realistic.
And and even like the truth islike to accomplish significant
things things maybe God's put onour life to do it's gonna pull
(45:04):
us out of balance.
And so he's like I actuallyfocus on counterbalance as a as
a tactic rather than balancebecause counterbalance he said
if you think if you think aboutit visually look at a helicopter
and a helicopter has everyhelicopter has two rotors
whether they're stacked on topof each other or one in the back
and one in the front and thereason they have two rotors is
(45:25):
because they could fly with onebut they couldn't be in control
and make sure they safely got totheir destination they they
they'd lose control.
But the second rotor createscounterbalance all that power
all that stuff so they canultimately end up in the place
they want to go and land safelyand travel safely and so in our
lives it's the same thing.
How do we counter withinvestments of our time energy
(45:48):
and attention to pull us back inand it doesn't mean that we
should always be going to theextreme and never spend any time
but the reality is seasons oflife are going to pull us out of
balance and big investments ofour time energy and attention to
invest in things that aremeaningful and are important
might pull us out of balance.
So like it may not mean thatwe're home every single night at
(46:11):
5 p.m to be home for dinner.
And so Daniel was giving thisexample he's like hey sometimes
at church there'll be like threeweek sprints where we're deep in
it.
And so he was like what I reallytry to do is I try to try to
communicate really clearly withmy family about what's going on.
I make commitments to what I'mgonna do to counterbalance in
(46:32):
the midst of that and then Ihave to follow through on those
things.
So he gave the example he's likeyou know I might say hey I'm a
three week sprint but the threedays before that I'm gonna be
off work and I'm gonna be homeand I'm gonna be present I'm all
in.
And then I can't be home fordinner every night but uh
Thursdays and Sunday nights I'mfor sure going to be home in the
midst of those three weeks.
And then when the when thatthree week sprint's over I'm
(46:53):
gonna take a few days off andI'm gonna be back in and and
those were his examples ofsaying like here's how I
counterbalance in the midst ofcrazy seasons.
And so I think for yourlisteners who whether regardless
of the age of their kids oranything that's going on like we
are going to get pulled out ofbalance and it's that is okay.
That's reality.
That's what like if it and theworld handles things differently
(47:14):
than us the problem is if wedon't have the counterbalance to
pull us back in we'll just keepgoing and going and going and
going.
SPEAKER_01 (47:21):
That's right.
That's such great advice yes Ilove the counterbalance and just
the analogy of the helicopterright you got to have that
second rhetor to be able to toget where you want to go and I
appreciate that the practicalexamples of like you're not
trying to be home every night atfive o'clock and and just have
(47:43):
this structure that's exactlythe same all the time like this
life that God has called us tois a wild ride.
We prioritize we communicatewhat's going on with our spouse
you know and to our kids and wemake the moments that we have
with them matter make themmeaningful and fully attentive
(48:05):
right we put work aside we putour devices away and we give
them our full attention thatthat may look way out of balance
to someone else but it is doingwhat matters most and and
winning in a worthy way right isto to take the sort of ride that
God's got us on and adjust to itand still keep in priority order
(48:30):
our relationship with God, ourrelationship with our spouse and
the unity of our family.
I love it.
John, we have an acceleratorprogram.
It's called the Thriving FamilyAccelerator and it's a coaching
course where we take about sixcouples through six weeks where
they write a faith-filled familymission statement.
(48:51):
So they identify a vision wheredo we want to go what is the end
game for us here that's what wedo right off the bat.
And then we teach couples how topray together as husband and
wife just like you talked aboutat the very beginning of the
podcast.
You said, you know, we havealways kind of prayed together
that's just been part of ourrelationship since we got
(49:12):
married.
There's a statistic that showsthat you know 75 or 50% of
people are married couples aregetting divorced.
If you get married a second timeyou have a 78% chance of that
marriage failing.
Even worse yeah second timearound you go to church with
your spouse you have a 26%chance of divorce.
(49:33):
Okay we're getting better thisthere's hope here right get the
family to church go to churchthis is good if you pray
together as husband and wifeevery day not family prayers but
just the two of you just a shortit could be 30 to 90 seconds a
day you have a 0.0006% chance ofdivorce less than 1% everything
(49:58):
you talked about today is pointsback to that union with your
spouse and inviting God in yeahlife is throwing us curveballs
all the time right and God'sokay with that he understands we
can handle the curveballs oflife he's prepared us equipped
us to lose our parents to youknow get fired from jobs to have
(50:23):
a total pivot you know in yourcareer and if we invite him in
collectively as a married couplein our into our union we're like
unstoppable yeah right that thatwill bring us to the end of our
lives where you know we we lookback and are able to say you
(50:44):
know for me and my house we haveserved the Lord we have followed
the path we have answered thatgreat call the commission to go
out and share our lives withother people you know and that's
that's what it all means.
Yeah I was gonna tell you justsomething that popped up in my
mind right before we got on thisinterview is I was thinking you
(51:07):
know I thought there's this kindof the word on the street about
you know listening to podcastsor going to talks at your church
or going to a workshop thatsomeone puts on about parenting
that that uh there's there's 20%like this 20% of people go to
80% of the things or listen to80% of the podcast right there's
(51:28):
there's a small percentage ofpeople the same kind of people
that are doing these things.
But the negative word on thestreet about us folks is that we
are consumers that all we wantto do is read the book is listen
to that episode and and go tothat talk because there's a part
of us that feels like we are notequipped and and we are
(51:52):
deficient in some way.
And so we need this knowledge weneed to go hear from John.
We need to go hear from Jordanat this thing at church or
whatever and we we've got thesedeficits that we've we have to
fill up.
And so we do that but then itgoes nowhere.
All this information thisknowledge just sits with us and
(52:13):
it struck me that you know whatthis 20% of people who are
listening who are going to theseworkshops who want to develop
their intellect we've got toengage our will also if we just
fill our minds with informationbut we fail to answer the call
(52:36):
which is what I heard you sayyou did when when you were in
that space where you thought youknow what I feel I feel a nudge
to just email a hundred guysthat I really love and just
share something that's on myheart with them.
You could have said no that wasa crossroads we have freedom
right to choose whether we dothe thing we feel the Holy
(52:58):
Spirit's nudging us to or we gobut what will they think?
If I send an email and you know75 of them don't open it, that's
not winning.
That's not success.
You know no you just went I feelcompelled to share my
reflections and myself withother guys and look what it's
led to right that's what theGreat Commission is about.
(53:20):
Go out and and spread the goodnews share your life the gospel
with others in whatever uniqueawesome way God has equipped you
to do that.
So John, thank you for yourwillingness to not keep your
story to yourself because that'sa choice that you always have is
to just keep that within you butby your willingness to share it
(53:44):
through email through podcastepisodes like this interviews
through your work now that youare part of at Unite Us right
this is where where the Lord islike setting you on fire right
he's like yes I'm joining you inyour passion so that you can
(54:04):
prepare people to reallyunderstand worthy wins.
First your relationship with Godthen your spouse then your kids
make it count.
So thank you for being with ustoday John this message has been
amazing.
It's blessed me personally anduh I can guarantee it will bless
(54:25):
many people for months and yearsto come.
SPEAKER_02 (54:27):
Thank you Jordan it's been a pleasure and I'm so
excited about what you're doingwith your work too.
So it's been fun to get to knowyou and see the awesome work
you're doing in the world.
SPEAKER_01 (54:36):
Thanks.
Let's stay connected and guyscheck out his book you can get
it wherever books are sold andon Amazon Worthy Wins by John
Ohlinger.
Thank you so much and we willcatch you on another episode of
our show real soon
At the end of your life, how will you know if you
truly won?
And I'm not just talking aboutprofessionally or financially,
but personally in your marriagewith your kids and with your own
soul.
If you're like most parentstoday, you are running at full
(00:49):
speed, work, practices,meetings, endless to-do lists.
And you're probably feeling liketwo ships passing in the night
with your spouse.
I know I can feel like that attimes, but you might be
wondering is this it?
Am I spending my time, energy,and intention on what truly
(01:10):
matters?
Listen, if that's you, pausewhatever you are doing and stay
with me because this episode isyour wake-up call.
But it's not only your wake-upcall, it's a beacon of hope.
Welcome back to the Families ofCharacter Show.
I'm your host, Jordan Langdon,and today's guest is someone who
(01:33):
knows what it's like to have itall and still feel the emptiness
of misaligned priorities.
John Olinger is a former Nikemarketing executive who worked
closely with legends like KobeBryant.
He had a thriving basketballcareer of his own and a
beautiful family.
He's married and has three sons.
(01:56):
And he also had a career thatlooked picture perfect on the
outside.
But then life hit hard.
He experienced a real loss inhis family, which forced him to
re-evaluate everything.
And that tragedy, like manytragedies do, became a turning
(02:17):
point for John.
And eventually the inspirationbehind his new book, Worthy
Wins.
John, thanks for being here.
Let's start at the beginning andtell us about some of the
mountains and valleys thatbrought you to this moment.
We're so glad to have you on theshow.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Awesome.
Thanks so much for having me,Jordan.
Honored to be with you and uhyour audience.
So mountains and valleys.
We hear that God's with us inboth of those.
And that has been the case formy life.
And uh I I grew up, had a greatlife.
I was only a child.
Um, my life first started to getuh a bit challenging when my mom
(03:00):
was diagnosed with breast canceruh for the second time.
She'd had it once before I wasborn and then had it again um
around the time I was turning10.
And um, unfortunately, herbreast cancer just ended up
ultimately taking her life.
And so when I was in sixthgrade, uh my mom passed away.
(03:21):
And that had such a profoundimpact on what happened from
there, and and even probably hasimpact on why I'm talking to you
today.
So that was a valley.
In the midst of that, which wasawesome, I um had an amazing
group of men who came alongsideme and had built this safety net
(03:42):
for me in that space.
And um, it's a longer story foranother day, but basically in
fourth grade, I started going toa young life group called
Campaigners.
It was a Bible study with highschool guys.
So I was in fourth grade hangingwith these older guys,
unbeknownst that therelationships that were being
built there would be in place tosupport me when I went through
this really difficult valley.
(04:04):
And so uh a guy named EricSchofield, amazing guy, invited
me to be a part of that group asa fourth grader.
It that was a mountain in themidst of those valleys.
So um I went on from there.
I've had some some awesomeexperiences.
I I played basketball in highschool and college and overseas,
and for sure, those weremountain moments for me.
(04:26):
I feel so grateful.
Ended up ultimately coming back,landing a job at Nike and
finding my way through um agigantic organization of highly
talented, highly intelligent,highly incredible people, and
and also a place where the onlything that ultimately the
(04:46):
company cares about is thatyou're successful at your work.
And so in the midst of my 10years at Nike, I had I had some
awesome mountaintops.
I'm sure we'll talk about someof them.
I had some low valleys whenmaybe even it might have looked
on the outside like they weremountaintops.
And then and then ultimately,you shared briefly about it in
the introduction, like my my bigvalley, my big unexpected moment
(05:10):
came when my my dad ultimatelyhad an accident.
And the and the crazy backgroundthere is that you know, I'd come
to a place in my career at Nikewhere I was really grateful, but
Nike was re-organing.
This was 2020.
Y'all know it very well.
Um, we'd be forever ingrained inour minds for different reasons,
but Nike was reorganing in thattime and it was possible I
(05:32):
wouldn't have a job.
And um so my wife had asked me,like, hey, have you thought
about moving east?
And she's from Florida, and sowe'd had that conversation a
bunch of times.
And when she ultimately asked methat question, usually when she
asked me the question the fewtimes she had before, I'd always
be like, Oh, I'm in the middleof this project or I don't know
what's gonna happen.
Like, I want to finish thisthing that is fun or uh
(05:53):
advancing my career, whatever.
But on this time, I said, youknow what?
I'm open to it because thereality was I didn't know if I
was gonna have a job at Nikeanymore.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
And so now at this time, did you have any children
yet?
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah.
We had three kids.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
We had three, you had your three boys, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
Yeah, but at that point in time they were five,
three, and one.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Not even one, five, five, three, and under one.
And so we were, you know, quitepossibly contributed to my
willingness to consider thiswas, you know, we were in Oregon
at the time, and I don't knowwhere all the listeners are at
on here, but they're all overthe country probably.
And Oregon was locked down.
Like that, that's you know, wewere we were five months into
lockdown with three young,energetic boys, and um, they
(06:39):
were they were awesome, butyeah, we were we were like
retired and we're not gettingmuch space.
And so the thought of movingeast to be a little bit closer
to family, uh to Aaron's familywas was appealing.
And um so when I said yes tothat question, she said, Well,
what are you scared?
Are you scared of leaving Nike?
And I said, I'm I'm not scaredof leaving Nike.
(06:59):
She said, Well, what are youscared of?
I said, I'm scared of leaving mydad.
And my dad was in Oregon, butlike I said, I was an only
child.
And so the thought of movingaway from him, he lived about 45
minutes away from us, wassomething that I wasn't super
excited about.
And and he and my stepmom werenot that far away, but they were
also like, it was gonna be toughif we were gonna go somewhere
else.
And so ultimately we decided topray for 40 days, and so we set
(07:25):
out on this 40-day prayerjourney of saying, like, hey,
God, shape our hearts in thistime.
Give us direction, give uswisdom, discernment about what
might be best.
And so we started praying.
And um, I think probably whenmost people set out on a prayer
journey, or at least I'll speakfor myself, there's optimism
about the good that's gonna comefrom that.
(07:47):
And and like, God, what are yougonna do?
It's gonna be awesome.
Um, and that was not ourexperience of our 40-day prayer
journey.
Um, because five days in, uh, weget to day five, and that will
be good.
Just a second.
Let me interrupt you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
All right, come on.
Because I know, I know this isgetting getting good, but I love
the details.
Okay, when you said you and yourwife set out to pray together 40
days, what does that actuallylook like?
If we're a fly on the wall, areyou guys like once a day, you're
getting together, you'rekneeling down together, you're
holding hands, whatever.
The two of you are praying, orboth of you are playing like
(08:24):
individually.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
That's a great question.
So it's both.
And and what we did, we weweren't like so.
Every night as is, we we prayevery night before bed together.
So that's like natur, naturallya rhythm already in our life at
that point, and something we'vebeen doing since basically we
got married.
And so that that was alreadythere.
And then there was individualsort of moments where we both
(08:47):
were saying, Hey, we're we'reboth leaning in, connecting with
the Lord on this, and then wewould have times in the midst of
that, outside of that, when wehad breaks in the chaos from
our, you know, our boys beinghome for where we'd where we'd
do it together.
So it was a blend, but some wastogether and some was on our own
of sort of seeking God in that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Great.
So the intention was set thatyou were going to be praying
about the move specifically for40 days and kind of on your own
together and all of that.
Love it.
Okay.
Now tell us what happened likefive days into this.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So um we're we're praying allyou know, things are things are
good.
Um, and then I get a phone callon the morning of the the fifth
day of praying, and it's mystepmom calling to tell me that
my dad has had this freakaccident.
And um he basically went to thegrocery store really early in
the morning because he was umtrying to avoid the crowds in in
(09:44):
Oregon.
And he was, you know, he was inhis 70s and he was like, all
right, I'm gonna go to thestore.
And um it was this wasSeptember, so it wasn't like it
was slippery outside, but um itwas one of these mornings where
if you're in a place where it'sbeen warm for a while, it hasn't
rained for a while, the firstrain, you know, creates some
some slippery ground.
And um, it had rained thatmorning, and somehow uh in the
(10:05):
midst of loading his groceriesin his car, he he slipped and
ended up hitting his head andended up with a traumatic brain
injury.
And so um we were like, wow,okay, God, that's not really how
we saw this this journey going.
And we decided in the midst ofthat, all right, well, we're
gonna keep praying.
This isn't like, okay, my dadhasn't had an accident, so we're
(10:27):
not we're not stopping, but thatwas definitely not how we saw
the the the journey going.
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
And so at that time, did you say could because I'm
just thinking personally, like Ican be quick to interpret what I
think is God's message.
Like, there it is, day five, dadslipped, he he had a bad injury,
that means we should stay here,right?
Because like that was a suresign that like something is
going on with him.
(10:54):
So but it doesn't sound like youguys looked at it in that way.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Yeah, it was uncertain.
And it it wasn't it, it was itwas something, but it was we we
didn't we didn't take it as thisis exactly what it is.
Okay.
But it was like, okay, let'skeep praying.
And ironically, I I was supposedto have a day of solitude that
day.
I I had like been planning to gohave that day of solitude, and
(11:22):
so still, I still went, butobviously it was uh a different
kind of day than expected.
So I I remember sitting there atthis by a lake, uh not that far
from our house, but uh by alake, a restaurant that had this
this space where you could sitoutside and just being like,
what the heck just happened?
Um and and so much uncertainty.
(11:44):
You know, he they put him inICU, but it was just not clear.
And because COVID was happening,um, it wasn't like I could go
there.
Uh because they would only allowone person per family per day to
be able to go in.
And so my stepmom went, which istotally made sense and and
right.
And I'm just sitting therewaiting for updates.
(12:05):
And and you know, there wasn't alot of updates other than he was
in and out of consciousness, andthey ended up intimating him.
And I ended up going to see him,I think about five days in, like
once he'd stabilized some.
So in the midst, we're justpraying and wondering and
waiting.
And I'm my stepmom and Iultimately ended up alternating
(12:26):
days.
So she'd go one day, I'd go thenext day, and we just sort of
did that for the rest of thetime.
And in the midst of praying, mymy wife at the time actually
worked for Young Life.
And so, in the in about 20,20-ish days into the praying,
she felt like it was time forher to take a step back from
that.
So she tapped out in the middle,she didn't like quit her job
(12:48):
immediately, but she let themknow, like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna transition out.
So that that happened in themidst, and then um we're still
praying, getting close to theend, and on day 39, I get an
email from HR at Nike, and andthey're like, Hey, you got a
meeting tomorrow morning.
And uh anybody who's been a partof a big organization or has
(13:08):
been in the midst of reorg knowsthat when HR sends you an email,
you're going to find out yourfate in that meeting.
So, not day 39, not day 41, day40 of the 40-day prayer journey
was the day I found out my fateat Nike.
And Nike said, We love you andwe have this great job for you.
(13:29):
The only problem was that thejob was a great job, but it
wasn't the type of job that Iwanted.
And it was a great job.
It was I was I was the and Iultimately, here's the
foreshadowing, I I took the joband I'll explain why.
But the job was leading globalbrand marketing for men's
running.
So it was a great job, a jobthat tons of people would love
(13:50):
to have.
But for me, I had been tellingthem for two years that I wanted
a different type of job.
And the type of job I wantedwasn't about title, it wasn't,
it was about influence and how Icould spend my life and my work
helping pour into people so thatthey could have an easier
journey at Nike than I did.
unknown (14:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Because I I got thrown in the deep end of the
pool and I figured out how toswim and I had had good success
in the company, but it's a verysecret swim kind of place.
I thought I could help peoplelearn to swim better.
And so I'd been telling mybosses um that's what I wanted.
But there was one problem.
Five of my six bosses were firedin the wave of job cuts before
(14:34):
me.
So all the people I had, five ofmy last six bosses were fired in
that previous round.
And so when it came time for meto get placed somewhere, and and
(16:12):
part of it was organizationally,there were just lim limits to
what they could do.
But all the people who knewexactly what I want were no
longer around either.
And so they they they showedenough to say, hey, we believe
in you, we're gonna give you ajob.
If you work and running at Nike,that is that is a they've
they've signed off and said,Hey, um, we we give you our seal
of approval.
And so when it and it was a takeit or leave it.
(16:33):
It wasn't, hey, can can I seethe menu and pick some other
item?
It was, do you want this job orwould you like to take a
severance package?
SPEAKER_01 (16:41):
Ooh, and that was day 40, all of that in that one
meeting.
SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And um, and it was still unclearwhat what was gonna happen with
my dad.
Is he gonna fully recover or ishe gonna be fully dependent on
people for the rest of his lifeand just be a shell of himself?
Those were sort of the twoextremes that we were wondering
about.
And so when they said, Hey, doyou do you want to be unemployed
(17:06):
or do you want to have a job?
I said, I'll take that job.
And when do I get to spend moreof my time on people?
And they said, uh, we don'tknow, maybe a year, maybe a year
and a half, maybe two years.
And so what that day meant forme was it was the day that I
knew that I was free to leaveNike whenever that time came.
(17:31):
Not because I wanted to, butbecause um they didn't know when
they could allow me to do thething that I had said was really
important to me.
And it wasn't that I didn't getto impact people or influence
people, but I had my my previouslike basically three years had
been like leading huge projects.
And you're you're you're leadingpeople in that, but you're all
(17:53):
your investment is into theproject, and and you get a
little bit of like osmosis intothe people by doing that.
And I I was saying, like, hey, Iwant to spend 90% of my time on
the people and helping themthrive and become the best
selves because that will improvethe way that we do work at Nike.
So we get to the end of the day,you know, and I my wife and I
(18:14):
get our kids down, and wefinally get the chance to talk
about the 40 days and say, Well,what do you she says, what do
you feel like God said in the 40days?
And I said, I think God said, Itrust you.
You're free to choose.
And she said, Yeah, I feel thesame way.
And so our choice at the end ofthat was to say, we might stay
(18:38):
or we might go, but for nowwe're gonna have this holding
pattern and see what happenswith my dad.
And we weren't ready to pack upand go, but we also weren't
ready to say, hey, we're stayingforever.
And unfortunately, like his bodyand his brain just could not get
back on the same page, and so heended up passing away about 20
days later.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Gosh, John.
That's a wild two months.
Yeah, 60 days just took usthrough.
And what I heard is the freedomthat on day 40 you felt free.
You felt this heavenly fathergive you permission to follow
(19:22):
the passion that he had putinside of you as a young boy.
Like, John, I'm joining you.
I join you in your passions.
I put these passions within youfor a purpose, right?
Like you are free.
You are free to do this, but atthe same time, you've got this
(19:45):
grief that you're about to face.
You feel freedom, right?
In in the decision to followyour passion and your career,
but then 20 days later, you gethit with this wave of loss.
Again, how do you get throughthis?
You and your wife, Erin, how doyou make sense of this?
(20:06):
How do you how are younavigating this?
You've got an idea of whatyou're gonna do with Nike for a
while, but then you'reprocessing the loss of your dad
and the news of that, and you'restill in Oregon.
How do you go about as a teammoving through that while you're
raising three kids and shutdown?
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
When you phrase it all that way, it's like, how did
we do that?
And think back to if we hadn'tbeen praying, how would we have
handled it?
And how might that have beendifferent if we hadn't entered
into that step of inviting Godin?
Because it could have easilyjust been like, all right, well,
(20:45):
do you want to move east?
And I could be like, sure, let'slet's consider it.
And am I sure that there's timesGod speaks audibly to things?
Yeah, for sure.
Most times I don't get theaudible answer, but that doesn't
mean that I shouldn't invite Godinto the journey that we
shouldn't have invited God in.
We invited God in, and that thattransformed that.
(21:05):
I don't think God was pullingthe puppet strings of and
saying, Oh, well, day five, hereyou go.
Like, here's this crazy thing.
I think like God joins us in thejourney of life as the
brokenness of the world unfolds.
So I think the reality was wewere in survival mode in the
midst of that, but also we knewwe were in it together.
Ultimately, when the dustsettled from my dad's passing,
(21:27):
um, I I told my wife that Ithink we needed to move to be
close to her family.
And that wasn't necessarily whatshe had envisioned as moving
east.
So she chose to trust me inthat, even though it wasn't
necessarily exactly what she hadplanned or wanted.
And we went on that journey ofpacking up our lives and saying
(21:48):
goodbye to some really greatfriendships and stuff in Oregon.
SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
So when you say that wasn't necessarily her idea, was
she thinking like a couple hoursaway or living on the beach?
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Yeah.
I mean, so her parents live inNortheast Florida, and so it was
more like, are we going toNashville or Raleigh or
somewhere that's like an hourflight away from Florida rather
than a full day of travel to getthere from Oregon?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:16):
And there were lots of reasons for that.
And it wasn't that I I had neverplanned either.
I wasn't thinking we'd ever moveto her hometown.
But the the change in ourcircumstances and the reality of
her parents at the state in lifethey were in and wanting to be
involved and in the mix with ourboys.
(22:39):
And for me, you know, no longerhaving my parents alive, it's
like what's it all for?
Like, why wouldn't we go be nearthem?
And and I don't think that'snecessarily the right choice for
everybody.
Every family is different andevery circumstance is different.
But for us in that moment,that's what I felt like the
(23:00):
right choice was.
And that choice was foundedbecause I wanted to pick the
pieces back up, and I wanted tofind ways for us to be connected
to our parents, and I wanted tofind ways for us to be more
connected as a couple, and uhlike having some other hands in
the in the midst was going to behelpful.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
And I can tell Erin is a godly woman because of one
word that you said, which wasshe just trusted me in this.
It wasn't necessarily the ideathat she had in mind originally,
but I felt that that's sort ofwhere I'm using my own words
here, but I hear you saying,like, I kind of felt like the
(23:39):
Lord was calling us to thatproximity to her family.
And she followed, she trustedand she allowed me as the man,
the husband in thisrelationship, the father to
these kids to lead.
Because I think as a woman, Ican say there are so many times
when I take the reins from myhusband, or I'm like, get in the
(24:02):
passenger seat or the back seat,and I'm I'm gonna get in the
driver's seat and I'm gonnadrive this decision, you know,
down the road.
And I regret it every time.
And it's the time where I canlet go of the wheel, move over
in the passenger seat, you know,allow him to be fully in the
driver's seat and taking thewheel, that it's like, this is
(24:22):
the right order.
This is what God wants, is forthis man to lead our
relationship and lead ourfamily.
And even if the decision hemakes ends up blowing up, we're
in it together, right?
Like that's that's cool, that'sgreat.
We we don't expect perfectionfrom you, but to give you that
(24:44):
kind of trust in that tendermoment in that grieving time of
you, that's a beautiful thing onher part.
And for you to to just, youknow, suggest this in confidence
to her.
I love that unity.
It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
Yeah, she she's amazing and she's so capable and
so smart and so wise.
And yet she really chose to leanin to that and say, all right,
let's do it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:11):
Yes.
Okay, so fast forward, you're inFlorida now, and uh you got your
your three kids.
What year is this now?
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
This is like We moved in 2021, so we've been
here about four years now.
Okay, okay.
And so it's yeah, which iscrazy.
We just hit four years and it isabsolutely flown by.
SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
Oh, I'm sure.
Well, you mentioned right beforethat that you said, you know,
once we got here, we were justthinking like what what matters
the most?
You know, where are we spendingour our time and you know, our
energy, and what are what are wethinking about?
You know, how did thistransition lead up to this book
(25:57):
that you just released?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
You know, the the the thing was the choice to come
here was was founded a lot bythe some of the realizations
coming out of my dad's death.
And so when my dad died, he was74 and I was 37.
And it was the first time well,I should take this back.
(26:23):
Like I knew when I was a kidthat life was finite because my
mom passed away.
I had a seriousness about myselfthat my friends that people
didn't understand becausebecause I had seen somebody
close to me die.
Yes.
But like like most things, youknow, the further you get away
from an event and experiencesomething, you know, the
sensation fades, the intensityfades.
(26:46):
And have I been prettyintentional in my life?
Would my friends describe me asintentional?
Yes, for sure.
And yet at the same time, likemost people, I think, I'm doing
the best I can, trying to tryingto live about what I can, but
life is going and it's movingfast.
And the more variables that comein, the the more likely that's
the case.
And so we're going along and weget there, and then it's like,
(27:09):
oh man, I might be halfway done.
And my dad, my dad being mebeing half my dad's age, was
like that, like could I livelonger?
Yeah.
Could I live shorter?
Yeah.
But the reality is if I live aslong as he did, then I'm at the
halfway point.
Yes.
And and you know, when thingsstart to become scarce and we
know that they're running out,they become more valuable.
(27:31):
And so for me, it was thisrealization of like, I don't
want to waste any of thisvaluable time that I have left.
And what happened was Iultimately ended up saying, I'm
gonna, I want to share myreflections with my friends
because most people my agehadn't lost both their parents.
(27:53):
And so I had a perspective thatmost of my friends didn't have.
And so I said, All right, I'mgonna start writing a weekly
email to about a hundred guysall over the country, all over
the world, people that I love,and just say, hey, I'm gonna
reflect on what does it mean towin in the places that matter
most.
(28:14):
And so I started writing thisemail, and guys, you know, were
responding and just encouragingme to keep going and being
talking about how they relatedand talking about how it was
causing them to think.
And so I that was sort of thefoundation of where worthy wins
came from.
And uh, as I went along, youknow, I was writing the email
and people sent it to a friend,and then I ultimately turned the
(28:34):
newsletter public and juststarted just wanting to
encourage people to learn fromthe things that I had learned.
Not because I had it all figuredout, but because I had a
perspective that other peoplemay not have.
And ultimately what I realizedthrough my time at Nike, and
this is where the Nike partcomes in, you know, I would go
sit in these conference rooms,Jordan, and there'd be 20 people
(28:57):
around the table, all amazing,bright, competent people.
And all 20 of them would have adifferent idea about what
success looked like.
And so that taught me this truththat is true in organizations,
but it's so true in our ownlives.
(29:17):
So the biggest takeaway I hadfrom my time at Nike was this
learning that winning issubjective.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
And in order to truly win, we have to, we have
to make it objective.
Otherwise, we could do allinvest all of our time, energy,
and attention into something andactually get to an outcome that
isn't what we desire.
SPEAKER_01 (29:35):
And yes.
Like you're saying, uh at theend of your life, how have you
spent your time, energy, andattention?
What was it going towards yourvision of success?
And as Christians, right, ourvision of success has to look
different from the world.
SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
And, you know, there's the reality is we're not
all the same either, just in thesame way as those conference
rooms, like we're all wired,created different.
God, God has said that eachperson is unique.
They have, you know, their ownstory.
So, so not everybody's gonnadefine success the same in our
lives.
But what we're at risk of isultimately winning at things
(30:18):
that don't matter.
And the world is gonna tell us abunch of things that matter.
You know, our devices are gonnapull us into things that don't
actually matter in the end.
And so it goes back to that thattime at Nike.
So I'd sit in these conferencerooms and everybody would have a
different idea of success.
And so then I'm sitting in thisrole where I'm the global brand
(30:38):
director for Kobe Bryant.
And Kobe has this tragicaccident, his daughter dies,
these other wonderful peoplepass away unexpectedly and
tragically.
And I'm one of the few people inNike that has Kobe in their
title at that point.
And my job as the global branddirector is to help steward the
brand of Kobe.
And so, what that ultimatelymeans is that amongst all the
(31:00):
well-intentioned, amazing peoplein Nike, ultimately I need to be
the one who helps Steward.
What are we gonna do in responseto his passing?
And because winning issubjective, how are we gonna
make sure that whatever we do isactually successful?
And you have people from China,Europe, the Philippines, New
(31:22):
York, LA, Chicago, Oregon, wherewe were, everybody had an
opinion.
And so what we had to do is wehad to get extremely clear about
what success looked like.
And so ultimately there ended upbeing one slide that went into
every single deck that wentaround the company.
And the slide said this it said,our objective is to pass Mamba
(31:43):
mentality on to the nextgeneration of athletes, starting
with Gen Z girls.
Wow.
And it didn't mean that otherpeople didn't matter, it didn't
mean that Gen Z boys didn'tmatter, it didn't mean that you
know, older generations, itdidn't mean that any of those
people didn't matter, it justmeant there's gonna be tons of
ideas about what we could dohere.
If your idea doesn't pass mamamentality on to the next
(32:05):
generation of athletes startingwith Gen Z girls, we're not
doing it.
Very clear.
Yes.
But then you in China, you inEurope, you in New York, LA,
great.
If you're doing that, awesome.
Have at it.
Like do it your own way, do itthat thing.
But like we had to we had to geteverybody clear about what
success looked like so that thenthey could go pursue success.
(32:28):
There was actually when we gotto the end of the project, we
were going to say, hey, we wegot there.
SPEAKER_01 (32:35):
Whoa.
That is awesome.
So many things are popping upfor me first.
One of the things I want tocomment on is that I I totally
see the red thread throughoutthis whole thing.
It's like the loss that youexperienced with your own
parents from the time you were,you know, in sixth grade through
(32:57):
the loss of your father and thento be the global brand marketing
guy for Kobe Bryant and thenexperience his loss.
This was just God's design tohave you in this role and for
everybody to be looking at youand saying now what are we going
to do?
(33:17):
What are we going to do now thatthis amazing famous athlete has
been tragically killed alongwith others in this horrible
accident you know what is mostimportant and their eyes are on
you it sounds like you are theone that had to make kind of
this decision on what doessuccess look like now for the
(33:43):
followers of this fine athleteand then for you to be like and
your team to say we're we'repassing on the Mamba mentality
to specifically Gen Z girls likewe are passing on the legacy of
Kobe Bryant in this way.
(34:04):
Like I just see it like it justmakes sense like God sets us up
for these things in life that wecould never see coming or never
really truly understand why am Iin this role?
You know why is everybodylooking to me for this but it's
like with your experience andyour personal connection to loss
(34:28):
it had to have given you theplatform to understand what
people who maybe idolized Kobewere going through or just
looked up to him you know neededin that moment.
Wow.
Thank you for sharing that andjust the inner workings of the
business and like what happensright you could all put your
(34:50):
ideas in and everybody could goin a million different
directions but ultimately that'snot going to pass on the legacy
of this man.
And so it sounds like thatparticular situation in
combination with the otherlosses that you've experienced
in your life and just listeningand hearing from God is like
(35:10):
okay what really matters rightwhat is a worthy win like what
is winning when it comes to yourlife and and your wife and your
kids and your soul at the end ofit all is that kind of was that
the springboard for like thisreflection email that you
started sending out and and sortof this following that you had
(35:34):
to consider what you're doingwith your time your energy and
your attention yeah yeah becauseultimately right the the world
tends to define success by whatwe accomplish and it doesn't
mean that accomplishments arebad.
SPEAKER_02 (35:51):
You know God is God has put us on the planet to
steward the planet and do thingsand do well.
But if we overinvest inaccomplishments and underinvest
in relationships then we'reultimately going to get to the
end of our lives and not haveone in the places that mattered
most.
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
And so we can't afford to do that.
We don't have time.
SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
No and we don't the two truths about time that have
become abundantly clear for methrough this process is is one
for everybody time is runningout so it's it's scarce.
And the second one is that it'sindefinite we don't actually
know how much time we have youknow we might have tons we might
have not very not very much andso if we spend too much time
(36:34):
focused on our accomplishmentsthen we're at risk of of missing
on things that that matter most.
And so I I wrote the book in away you know my my faith is
laced through it and it will itwill encourage people who are
followers Jesus and it also is abook that I wanted to write in a
way that my bosses, my VPs, theleaders at Nike who have given
(36:55):
their whole lives to Nike couldread it and say wow what do I
really want to win at?
What really matters?
And I start the I start the bookwith a a question from John
Ortberg where or a quote fromJohn Ortberg that's basically
like hey the world doesn't teachus to pay attention to what
matters and so the startingpoint for all of us is like so
(37:16):
what really matters?
What is most important?
And we're all going so fast.
Just like people were going sofast on that project with Kobe
they had all their ideas wecould do this we could do this
we could do this we could dolike everybody's just going.
And so worthy wins is a is acall to action to just pump the
brakes for a second and stop soyou can define what what
(37:37):
actually matters the most toyou.
And it might be different thanwhat matters the most to me.
But the the things that matterthe most at the end ultimately
are relationships.
And the accomplishmentaccomplishments matter as well
but the relationships matter themost and for me you know that
starts with my personalrelationship with the Lord it
starts with my physical healthbecause if I'm not if I'm not
(37:59):
healthy haven't taken care ofmyself then and haven't and if
I'm I'm not connected to Godthen that impacts everything.
So that's the starting point andthen okay my wife she's a
relationship at the end of mylife I want to be able to say
hey we were connected in a worldof disconnection we were
(38:20):
connected and so how do we fightfor that and in my current age
of my kids and right seasonschange the current age of my
kids at their age like presenceis the thing that I'm trying to
bring them.
As they start to get a littlebit older that's gonna like
still presence is important butI'm gonna transition more into
training and helping preparethem that much more for them
(38:42):
going out on their own.
But if I if I'm missing on thosefirst three buckets myself in
connection with God, my wife andmy kids great and so I tell a
story in the book where aboutseven years into my journey at
Nike I'm leading this awesomeproject.
So I'm the basketball lead forthe Olympics for 2020.
(39:03):
And that basically means allright well I'm leading the
basketball work and so we'regonna tell this awesome story
and you can read the book Idon't need to tell you all the
details about it.
They don't really matter here'swhat matters two weeks or two
months before we're supposed tohost all these athletes on
Nike's campus, my wife has ourthird son, which is awesome.
I take a few weeks off I go backto work and it's this is like
(39:23):
right after Thanksgiving and sowe're sprinting because we're
gonna host all these athletesright after January 1st.
unknown (39:29):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (39:29):
So we're sprinting and yet at home my wife's
suggesting to have a third kidyou know at that point we have
we have three boys four andunder so it's it's chaos and
this is pre-COVID but it's stillit's still and I'm just cranking
and and this is like pre-Zoomculture anything.
So like we're doing likeconference calls but I'm
coordinating all these peopleacross Nike you know eight or
(39:50):
nine different departmentsgetting everybody on board.
Great we're all lined up it'sI'm going going going um and I
get to Christmas Eve and I havethis harsh realization Jordan I
didn't get my wife a meaningfulChristmas present.
And it wasn't that she wanted itwasn't about money spent.
It was that what she wanted toknow was she was thought of that
(40:13):
she was worthy of my time,energy and attention as she
raises our then six week oldchild.
And so against Christmas Eve andrealize that I don't have one
and there's nothing I can do tosalvage a meaningful gift.
And so I had to do this walk ofshame where I went and confessed
to her hey I babe I d I droppedthe ball.
(40:35):
And she was gracious but sohurt.
Oh and I didn't intend to notget my wife a Christmas present
right I believe you I didn'tintend that but intentions
aren't gonna get us there ontheir own and so like I don't
want to and to the project atwork winning.
(40:58):
Everybody loved it everybody washappy received super well at
home I lost in you know thesecond most important
relationship in my life and sothat was a really that was a
really pivotal moment for me andin thinking through you know all
all my time at Nike was wasteaching these lessons and
weaving it together butultimately you know then my dad
passes away after that and allthis stuff and it's like hey I'm
(41:22):
at risk of winning at thingsthat don't actually wow and I
think everybody else is too Iagree with you.
SPEAKER_01 (41:29):
I agree with you we are all just a hair away from uh
these misaligned priorities andand if you're listening right
now going uh I'm my prioritiesare misaligned right now I am
more focused on on work.
I love my career John I lovewhat I do at families of
character coaching parents doingall this and at the end of the
(41:52):
day if I prioritize this over myspouse my kids my relationship
with God the whole thing hasbeen flipped on its head yeah
and and I am actually idolizingmy career and my work and my my
business and so I I heard yousay you know it was the walk of
(42:16):
shame man I had to come to herand admit that I had prioritized
this project over people overher right and that there wasn't
anything I could do with it.
I I was caught red handed andshe wasn't gonna have something
the next day and uh again awoman of God she has grace right
(42:37):
she's able to forgive even inher hurt uh I had a client one
time and she had she had lost achild and and a nurse told her
she said you know during yourgrieving the thing that is going
to feel most unfair to you isthat you're going to have to
forgive people you're the onethat experienced the loss but
you're going to have to forgivepeople they're gonna say the
(43:01):
stupidest things the mostinsensitive things you're gonna
compare their story to yours andwhatever and you are called to
higher ground.
You are called to forgive themin your own pain.
And I hear that that's what yourwife did that maybe it wasn't
perfect the way she did it orher response to really well
considering the circumstancesshe did awesome.
(43:22):
Man but that's another teachingpoint for us listeners is like
you know you're not gonna get itright personally I'm gonna fall
down and I'm gonna need theforgiveness of my spouse and
Josh is going to forgive me overand over when I prioritize
things above you know ourrelationship with God and our
relationship with each other andour kids and the important part
(43:43):
is that we get back on the horseright that we go okay this is
the turning point it's time toreorder the priorities in our
lives and uh focus on whatmatters most those things that
are worthy wins.
SPEAKER_02 (43:58):
Yeah yeah and and here's here's the other part
that I I think for a long time Ifelt like in order to do worthy
wins I needed to walk a tightrope and that I needed to have
perfect balance and that was theonly way that I was going to get
worthy wins.
And I was I was sitting withthis pastor his name's Daniel
(44:18):
Grothy from Colorado Springs andI was sitting with him a couple
years back and he's similar tome a little a little further on
in life than me but same thingthree kids you know big
responsibilities at his churchwife you know lots lots of
things going and I'm like heyman how do you balance it all
and he's he looks at me Jordanand I'll I I will never forget
the look he just says balance isa myth.
(44:41):
You dropped the mic bro and nowI need to know now I need to
know more.
So can you tell me more and hegoes on to tell me like
ultimately the reality is lifeis constantly going to pull us
out of balance and so if if wethink that we're somehow going
to walk the perfect typerope itit's not realistic.
And and even like the truth islike to accomplish significant
things things maybe God's put onour life to do it's gonna pull
(45:04):
us out of balance.
And so he's like I actuallyfocus on counterbalance as a as
a tactic rather than balancebecause counterbalance he said
if you think if you think aboutit visually look at a helicopter
and a helicopter has everyhelicopter has two rotors
whether they're stacked on topof each other or one in the back
and one in the front and thereason they have two rotors is
(45:25):
because they could fly with onebut they couldn't be in control
and make sure they safely got totheir destination they they
they'd lose control.
But the second rotor createscounterbalance all that power
all that stuff so they canultimately end up in the place
they want to go and land safelyand travel safely and so in our
lives it's the same thing.
How do we counter withinvestments of our time energy
(45:48):
and attention to pull us back inand it doesn't mean that we
should always be going to theextreme and never spend any time
but the reality is seasons oflife are going to pull us out of
balance and big investments ofour time energy and attention to
invest in things that aremeaningful and are important
might pull us out of balance.
So like it may not mean thatwe're home every single night at
(46:11):
5 p.m to be home for dinner.
And so Daniel was giving thisexample he's like hey sometimes
at church there'll be like threeweek sprints where we're deep in
it.
And so he was like what I reallytry to do is I try to try to
communicate really clearly withmy family about what's going on.
I make commitments to what I'mgonna do to counterbalance in
(46:32):
the midst of that and then Ihave to follow through on those
things.
So he gave the example he's likeyou know I might say hey I'm a
three week sprint but the threedays before that I'm gonna be
off work and I'm gonna be homeand I'm gonna be present I'm all
in.
And then I can't be home fordinner every night but uh
Thursdays and Sunday nights I'mfor sure going to be home in the
midst of those three weeks.
And then when the when thatthree week sprint's over I'm
(46:53):
gonna take a few days off andI'm gonna be back in and and
those were his examples ofsaying like here's how I
counterbalance in the midst ofcrazy seasons.
And so I think for yourlisteners who whether regardless
of the age of their kids oranything that's going on like we
are going to get pulled out ofbalance and it's that is okay.
That's reality.
That's what like if it and theworld handles things differently
(47:14):
than us the problem is if wedon't have the counterbalance to
pull us back in we'll just keepgoing and going and going and
going.
SPEAKER_01 (47:21):
That's right.
That's such great advice yes Ilove the counterbalance and just
the analogy of the helicopterright you got to have that
second rhetor to be able to toget where you want to go and I
appreciate that the practicalexamples of like you're not
trying to be home every night atfive o'clock and and just have
(47:43):
this structure that's exactlythe same all the time like this
life that God has called us tois a wild ride.
We prioritize we communicatewhat's going on with our spouse
you know and to our kids and wemake the moments that we have
with them matter make themmeaningful and fully attentive
(48:05):
right we put work aside we putour devices away and we give
them our full attention thatthat may look way out of balance
to someone else but it is doingwhat matters most and and
winning in a worthy way right isto to take the sort of ride that
God's got us on and adjust to itand still keep in priority order
(48:30):
our relationship with God, ourrelationship with our spouse and
the unity of our family.
I love it.
John, we have an acceleratorprogram.
It's called the Thriving FamilyAccelerator and it's a coaching
course where we take about sixcouples through six weeks where
they write a faith-filled familymission statement.
(48:51):
So they identify a vision wheredo we want to go what is the end
game for us here that's what wedo right off the bat.
And then we teach couples how topray together as husband and
wife just like you talked aboutat the very beginning of the
podcast.
You said, you know, we havealways kind of prayed together
that's just been part of ourrelationship since we got
(49:12):
married.
There's a statistic that showsthat you know 75 or 50% of
people are married couples aregetting divorced.
If you get married a second timeyou have a 78% chance of that
marriage failing.
Even worse yeah second timearound you go to church with
your spouse you have a 26%chance of divorce.
(49:33):
Okay we're getting better thisthere's hope here right get the
family to church go to churchthis is good if you pray
together as husband and wifeevery day not family prayers but
just the two of you just a shortit could be 30 to 90 seconds a
day you have a 0.0006% chance ofdivorce less than 1% everything
(49:58):
you talked about today is pointsback to that union with your
spouse and inviting God in yeahlife is throwing us curveballs
all the time right and God'sokay with that he understands we
can handle the curveballs oflife he's prepared us equipped
us to lose our parents to youknow get fired from jobs to have
(50:23):
a total pivot you know in yourcareer and if we invite him in
collectively as a married couplein our into our union we're like
unstoppable yeah right that thatwill bring us to the end of our
lives where you know we we lookback and are able to say you
(50:44):
know for me and my house we haveserved the Lord we have followed
the path we have answered thatgreat call the commission to go
out and share our lives withother people you know and that's
that's what it all means.
Yeah I was gonna tell you justsomething that popped up in my
mind right before we got on thisinterview is I was thinking you
(51:07):
know I thought there's this kindof the word on the street about
you know listening to podcastsor going to talks at your church
or going to a workshop thatsomeone puts on about parenting
that that uh there's there's 20%like this 20% of people go to
80% of the things or listen to80% of the podcast right there's
(51:28):
there's a small percentage ofpeople the same kind of people
that are doing these things.
But the negative word on thestreet about us folks is that we
are consumers that all we wantto do is read the book is listen
to that episode and and go tothat talk because there's a part
of us that feels like we are notequipped and and we are
(51:52):
deficient in some way.
And so we need this knowledge weneed to go hear from John.
We need to go hear from Jordanat this thing at church or
whatever and we we've got thesedeficits that we've we have to
fill up.
And so we do that but then itgoes nowhere.
All this information thisknowledge just sits with us and
(52:13):
it struck me that you know whatthis 20% of people who are
listening who are going to theseworkshops who want to develop
their intellect we've got toengage our will also if we just
fill our minds with informationbut we fail to answer the call
(52:36):
which is what I heard you sayyou did when when you were in
that space where you thought youknow what I feel I feel a nudge
to just email a hundred guysthat I really love and just
share something that's on myheart with them.
You could have said no that wasa crossroads we have freedom
right to choose whether we dothe thing we feel the Holy
(52:58):
Spirit's nudging us to or we gobut what will they think?
If I send an email and you know75 of them don't open it, that's
not winning.
That's not success.
You know no you just went I feelcompelled to share my
reflections and myself withother guys and look what it's
led to right that's what theGreat Commission is about.
(53:20):
Go out and and spread the goodnews share your life the gospel
with others in whatever uniqueawesome way God has equipped you
to do that.
So John, thank you for yourwillingness to not keep your
story to yourself because that'sa choice that you always have is
to just keep that within you butby your willingness to share it
(53:44):
through email through podcastepisodes like this interviews
through your work now that youare part of at Unite Us right
this is where where the Lord islike setting you on fire right
he's like yes I'm joining you inyour passion so that you can
(54:04):
prepare people to reallyunderstand worthy wins.
First your relationship with Godthen your spouse then your kids
make it count.
So thank you for being with ustoday John this message has been
amazing.
It's blessed me personally anduh I can guarantee it will bless
(54:25):
many people for months and yearsto come.
SPEAKER_02 (54:27):
Thank you Jordan it's been a pleasure and I'm so
excited about what you're doingwith your work too.
So it's been fun to get to knowyou and see the awesome work
you're doing in the world.
SPEAKER_01 (54:36):
Thanks.
Let's stay connected and guyscheck out his book you can get
it wherever books are sold andon Amazon Worthy Wins by John
Ohlinger.
Thank you so much and we willcatch you on another episode of
our show real soon
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