October 10, 2025 • 25 mins
Episode 196: Smart Money Moves for Family Vacations with Skyler Fleming For most families, the biggest obstacle to taking that dream trip isn’t time—it’s money. The good news? With a little planning and some smart financial strategies, you can make vacations happen without draining your savings or piling on debt. In this episode, Rob talks with Skyler Fleming, Certified Financial Planner and host of the Money Talks podcast. Skyler shares practical tips to help families budget, save, and plan so travel dreams can become travel memories. From avoiding credit card traps to involving kids in the budgeting process, this conversation is packed with actionable advice for making travel financially doable—and fun. What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- Why “splurging comfortably” is possible with the right budget
- The first steps families should take when creating a vacation budget
- Common costs families forget to plan for (and how to avoid surprise expenses)
- How far in advance you should start saving for a big trip
- Simple savings strategies that won’t eat into everyday essentials
- The truth about credit card rewards—and how to use them wisely
- Fun ways to involve kids in vacation budgeting and decision-making
- Why planning ahead reduces pressure and makes vacations more enjoyable
- Visit Skyler’s website: MoneyTalk.show
- Listen to the Money Talks podcast on your favorite platform
- Follow The Family Vacationer on Instagram and Substack
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Today on the Family Vacationer, we're talking money, specifically how
to save for your next family getaway without breaking the bank.
Our guest is Skylar Fleming, certified financial planner and host
of the Money Talks podcast. He's here to share practical,
real world tips to help you plan, save, and make
those dream vacations. The reality episode one starts right now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to The Family Vacationer with Robin.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Tracy, your go to podcast for families on the move.
Hey friends, Rob here and welcome to the Family Vacationers. Now,
if you're like most families like our family, one of
the biggest obstacles to taking that dream trip isn't time,
it's money. The good news is with a little planning
and some smart financial strategies, you can make those vacations
(00:55):
happen without draining your savings or relying on debt. Today
we're talking working with someone who knows a thing or
two about smart money moves. Skyler Fleming is a certified
financial planner and host of The Money Talks podcast, where
he helps people build strong money habits. He's here to
break down how families can budget, save, and plan so
(01:16):
travel dreams can become travel Memories. Scaler, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited for this.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Glad to have you on. Okay, before we get into
the nuts and bolts of vacation budgeting, I want to
know your stance on this. Are you more of a
splurge on experiences kind of guy?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Are you a stick to the budget? No matter what?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I am a splurge on experiences and that is because
of my wife. That is a change that has happened.
And we actually just celebrated our five year anniversary yesterday. Congratulations.
That's a change that's happened in these last five years.
It's become a splurge on experiences. And I'm sure I'm
gonna mention it, but our trip to Hawaii last year
was a splurge on experiences, but it wasn't without budgeting
and planning and really setting ourselves up to be able
(02:02):
to splurge comfortably.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, that's what I like to call it. So because
you have that foundation of the budgeting, you can splurdo.
That's that's great. All right, Well, we had so much
shaved ice.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Did you.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
My daughter just got back from her honeymoon from Hawaii.
Just got back. A couple of months ago. But but yeah,
they had the shaved ice, and did you have the
Hawaiian donuts? To forget what they're called.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I should remember, but probably I even tried raw coconut
or whatever that was disgusting. We tried a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And the rice that's no, okay, didn't that one never
crossed our plate?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah? I don't. I don't blame you. I wouldn't do
that either.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
All right, let's start with the big picture. Why is
it so important for families to financially plan for the
vacation instead of just winging it?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, well, I think if you hear what I just
talked about, where we were splurging comfortably. We were going
out to get shaved ice, probably twice a day, and
we would just drive there, pick it up, hang out
at that little park set up near the place, and
we didn't really care. And when was the last time
you were able to say I didn't really care that
I was spending money. And that's why building this I
(03:09):
guess financial plan for your vacation plan is so much
better than winging it. There's so much less guilt. You
enjoy spending that money, and there's not debt coming home
with you. You're pre saving for those things. And I
know we're going to talk about how debt and vacations
play a role together, but just the idea of being
able to spend without necessarily feeling guilty about it. Like
my wife and I have a trip to New York
(03:31):
in two weeks actually, and we've been saving for that
one since our Hawaii wan and even before then, using
some of the strategies we'll talk about today, But just
this long term approach to saving for it. We're not
we're going to go to a Broadway show. We're going
to go out to a nice dinner. Like there's all
these expenses that people dream about doing that because of
some pre planning and getting ahead of the expenses make
(03:52):
it a whole lot easier to just enjoy instead of
worry about.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So when a family sits down to create a vacation budget,
what's the very first step they should take.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
I think you just got to do a simple search
of cost estimates. I think you need to really like
actually put money into a role in this planning because
money is going to play a factor in this, whether
you can actually afford it or not. You need to
kind of get your mind wrapped around that because maybe
you just can't afford that trip and that's going to
be a harsh reality. But instead of trying to force
(04:24):
it and putting it all on debt or on credit cards,
maybe you should say, I actually can't afford that trip
right now, and you start to make it a goal
a couple of years in the future. But you need
to start with just some simple cost estimates and start
with the things that need to be paid first. Like
a flight. You're gonna have to pay that expense well
in advance, and it's not going to be like a
hotel where maybe you can place a reservation and you
(04:44):
can pay for it at the trip when you actually
get there. But start with those things that you're gonna
have to pay maybe six eight months in advance, because
those are the ones that tend to go on a
credit card because you're not even ready for the vacation yet.
It's still many months away, but you're starting to pay
for the So start with those things that'll come soonest
and try to recrimind around those.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
How far in advance would you recommend families start saving
for a big trip.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Well, it's likely that if you're thinking about these big trips,
like if I just mentioned Hawaii in New York, we're
doing that in back to back years. But that wasn't
because we just randomly thought of it in one evening.
Like the Hawaii trip. My wife was in PA school
to become a physician assistant, and at the beginning of
PA school she mentioned in going to Hawaii, and then
I mistakingly floated the idea of telling her I would
(05:30):
take her after PA school graduation. So then once I
said that, she's like, are you serious? And I was like, well, shoot,
I guess I am now. So because I knew the
expense of a potential Hawaii trip, because we had talked
about the idea before. Yeah, once you start talking about
those ideas, it was several years before the trip actually happened.
That's when you got to start thinking about it. Financially,
it's several years. And understand that if you're looking at
(05:51):
cost estimates now for something, maybe it'll go up and
you need to plan a little bit more because it's
a couple of years away. But no trip is suddenly
thought of overnight. You're not thinking about your big New
York City trip or your big trip to Canada or wherever.
You want to go, You're not just randomly thinking about it.
You're planning it for years. Social media is giving you
those reels and YouTube shorts and whatever years in advance
(06:13):
that are planting those seeds. So start thinking about the
money then as well, so that you can actually be prepared.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What are the cost categories that families often forget when there,
when they're making their budget.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I think one of the main ones that we've seen,
my wife and I and our vacation planning is what
kind of things are you going to need for the trip?
So our trip to Hawaii, we wanted to bring our
own snorkel gear because we were going to do a
lot of swimming, and it's not super expensive. But those
are the kind of things that maybe new clothes, maybe
you need new shoes because you're going to do a
lot of walking. It's the things that you're not actually
(06:46):
spending money on the trip or actually at the location,
but rather you're spending it for the location or to
get there. Those are the things that just quickly get ignored.
They get thrown on your in your Amazon cart and
you never really think twice about it. And then, of course,
the one that everyone's budgets, both at home and on vacations.
It's food, right, how are you going to eat? Where
you can eat? How much money are you gonna spend?
It's going to be more expensive that shady dice that
(07:08):
I mentioned. It is really expensive for ice. It's just ice,
but that sort of stuff adds up quickly, and then
suddenly you're breaking your budget and you're starting to go
into debt for your trip.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Which nobody wants. Let's talk savings strategies. What are some
practical ways to consistently set aside money for travel without
cutting into your essentials.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Your everyday needs.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Budgeting for it every single month. And I know budgeting
is kind of a bad word, but I host the
Money podcast, so it's very much in my lingo. So
if you want to call it something else, like spend
planning or planning to spend or whatever you want to
call it. But my wife and I have our vacation
budget category that we budget something into, but it's hardly
ever close to how much we're actually spending in that
specific month. So I'm going to keep talking about the
(07:55):
Hawaii trip because it's a perfect example. We did this
really well, and we have this big vacation we were
saving for. We saved for it for probably two or
three years, but there would be months where we were
maybe putting a few hundred dollars into this vacation fund,
but maybe we would spend like thirty bucks out of
it because of some little camping trip we did. Right,
that's still a vacation, right, but it's not six hundred
(08:15):
dollars worth. So now we have five hundred and fifty left.
And that is how we built up just some extra
money over time to have several thousands of dollars that
we were able to take with us to Hawaii to
not have to worry about going into debt. So setting
a regular, repeating, continual budget that you can stick to
and make sure it's realistic, because it's not going to
be realistic when you're approaching the vacation and you got
(08:37):
four or five thousand dollars you need to save. Most people,
I don't know where my wife and I would come
up with one thousand dollars a month to be able
to save for it in those last couple months before
a trip. Yeah, So don't put so much pressure on
yourself and spread it out.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Do you recommend using specific saving tools or opening account
specifically for you know, the vacation money that you're setting aside.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, that's the specific account is a great idea. Even
beyond vacation, could we could get into this too, but
even just beyond vacation, just your normal savings, having somewhere
that it's separate from your checking account is going to
make sure that it's actually saved and protected. But especially
for vacation stuff, you're probably, like I just said, planning
for it a year or two in advance. Something like
(09:21):
a certificate of deposit or they're often called CDs, that
could be a great place to just park the money,
let it earn some little bit of extra interest. It
has some restriction on it, so you're not going to
pull it out and spend it. And then even some
credit unions and banks have what's called like a dedicated
savings account where it's similar to a CD with some
restrictions and a higher interest rate, but you can add
money to it. Those are a great way to kind
(09:43):
of lock yourself out of the money. And I know,
like retirement accounts, right, they have these rules that you
can't access the money until a certain point. That is
to make sure you actually keep the money in there
for retirement. So set up your vacation account in the
same way. Like if you want it to be for
a vacation in two years, find a two year see
put your money in there that you have saved, and
then you can't really touch it without some sort of
(10:04):
penalty or maybe some drawbacks on it. So that's going
to help you stick to it and make sure the
money's actually used. But that's what we use for ours,
and we made a couple hundred extra bucks on the
money that was just sitting there, and that paid for
whatever we wanted to when we were there because we
didn't really have to worry about it.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, I know many families use credit card points or
loyalty programs, and I know that companies spend lots of
money on researching these. They don't do it out of
the goodness of their heart. What's the best way to
maximize these without falling into debt traps?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah? I know what you can handle. And for me,
like you would think, oh, you're a podcast host, you
talk about money all the time, you're probably big in
the credit card space. I am not. This is an
area that gets overwhelming for me, and I just don't
really want to bother with it because it is so overwhelming.
There can be so much going on. And one thing
that I want to give all your listeners permission, if
(11:00):
you just want a cash back card, stick with it.
Just stick with some sort of basic cash back, because
these reward and loyalty programs are so confusing and complex
on purpose, right, Yeah, they want to make it. I
heard it explained like those old coupon books that you
used to get it, like for school fundraisers or whatever.
But there would be like certain parameters or you'd have
to buy three get two free, like just these weird
(11:21):
rules that were like just above the thresholds of what
you were comfortable with spending. Yeah, and that's the same
sort of stuff they do with the credit card awards.
They're like, you spend four nights, you get five free.
They probably know the research is most people only stay
three nights, so they're trying to bump you up a
couple extra nights to earn some extra spending. They know
what they're doing, and I think that's the biggest thing.
These credit cards have twenty eight, twenty five thirty percent
(11:42):
interest rates on them, right especially the ones that are
really built for travel rewards, if you had some sort
of investment that was making you twenty five percent interest,
like these credit cards are for the credit card companies.
Put yourself in their shoes, and now you understand why
they market them so heavily, why there's so much money
going into marketing credit cards and trying to get you
to sign up for these bonuses, because they are going
(12:03):
to make so much money off you if you let
that debt roll over. But I could keep going on
credit cards. So please, if you have any other questions,
I'd love to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Oh, I try to stay away from them.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
For families who might be tempted to put the entire
vacation on a credit card, what would you say to that.
I have a feeling you have a pretty distinct opinion
about this one.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, don't do it. Vacations are a want, their desire, like,
they're not something that you should be financing with debt.
And that's a tough reality and a tough pill for
people to swallow, because sometimes it can be hard to
save for those vacations and actually save up. I don't
think there's anything wrong with using credit cards. It all
comes into carrying that balance on them. And if you're
(12:46):
using a credit card to pay for your vacation six
twelve months after the vacation happened, that's just going to
stain those wonderful memories that you made on the vacation
by making you think about, I'm still paying off the
shaved ice or whatever it is the place you're going.
That seems so silly when you start getting down the
road further and it just becomes such a I guess
anchor and like chain around your neck. That just ruins
(13:09):
the vacation, honestly is how I view it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Well, yeah, and it does that later, but it also
I think puts pressure on parents when they're on the vacations,
Like we're spending all this money, so there's all this
added pressure to have a good time, or your expectations
get raised because you're spending more than you know, like
going to Hawaii, Like you're spending quite a bit of money,
so your expectations are higher. And you know, sometimes we
(13:34):
transfer that onto the kids and they don't have the
same concepts of money. It's not fair to put pressure
on them. Likely you have to have a good time
because we're spending x amount of money so.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, and even just to your point there, my wife
and I we just recently got a credit card with
a sign up bonus. And this is something that if
we have a moment, I'd love to talk about how
you can use those for your vacation. But we just
got a credit card for a sign up bonus for
a New York trip. It's actually the second one that
we've got to be able to get some points on
because of our spending. But I think that's where credit
card rewards can be extremely useful, as if you know
(14:06):
there's spending that's going to allow you to meet a
sign up bonus, then go for it. We got a
card that has I think it's a four hundred dollars
annual fee, right, that's crazy, It's crazy in my book.
I don't know if we'll keep it and renew it,
will probably downgrade it because you can do that. But
this card is going to allow us to get a
ton of points because the spending is going to be
very easy. We did the math on like the hotels
that we already have reserved that we're going to have
(14:27):
to pay for at the location, and it gets us
within like eight hundred dollars of the bonus. Now most families,
you're probably spending at least eight hundred dollars over a
couple months, so you just have to look at it
and really plan ahead and then you can pull the trigger.
Never pull a credit card sign up bonus thinking you're
going to manage to get it, because my wife and
I did that at the very beginning of our marriage.
(14:49):
We were like, hey, here's a cool credit card bonus.
We've heard of this, let's do it. And we found
ourselselves towards the last month of the credit card bonus
period buy an extra stuff that we didn't really need,
kind of making up excuses, and that's where it gets
super dangerous. Now, it wasn't a massive amount, thankfully we
weren't in debt over it, but that can easily land
you in credit card debt, especially when you're on your
(15:10):
trip and you think, hey, we need to spend an
extra three hundred dollars to meet the sign up bonus,
but you don't really need to spend it. Now, you're
just trying to find something to spend money on. And
if you want to just give away money, I'll happily
take it, but don't just give it to the credit
card companies, and then also to your point of just
spending for spending sake, then the kids don't really have
a good grasp of what's expensive or what we're just
(15:32):
spending on that credit card that we just got with
the sign up bonus has a thirty thousand dollars line
of credit that is way more money than we would
ever need to spend on a credit card, let alone
within a certain window. That is so dangerous. We completely
ignore our credit card limits because they're never going to
be within our budget and they're never going to be
less than a realistic amount of spend because they want
(15:53):
to push you up higher and higher into maxing out
all these credit cards. So my advice is only get
a credit card when you know you can meet the
sign up bonus ahead of time. If you're left wondering,
I don't know if we'll make it or it'll be
kind of tight, just don't bother. It's not worth it,
and then ignore the credit card limits. Ignore them because
you should have your budget or cash flow set up
(16:14):
so that you can pay it off regardless of how
much balance is on there. If you can't, then you
start getting into tricky territory. But don't think I have
thirty thousand dollars to spend. Think I have two thousand
dollars to spend because that was my budget.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
You know, it's almost like the credit card companies are
in it to get you in debt. It's almost like
they plan for that. Oh they are oh a little
sarcasm there.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They don't make money off of these free rewards, right right.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I love the idea of involving kids in the vacation process.
How can parents make vacation budgeting fun and still teach
our kids something in that whole experience.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, this is a method that I've heard applied to
other areas of money with kids as well. I don't
have kids on my own. With many and my wife,
we don't have any children. But I have talked on
my podcast on or per two hundred episodes, so I've
had a great handful of people and to help me
in this area. So I've picked up a few tips
(17:17):
from them. Yeah, and one of them is to get
the kids involved in specific areas or give them. Maybe
you're sixteen or seventeen year old is really wanting to
learn how to budget and how to save money. Maybe
you give them an entire day of the trip to
plan the finances around it. Or maybe you're ten or
eleven or twelve year old, maybe you give them one
(17:38):
specific element of the trip, so like that you give
them all the lunches or something like that, or you
give them, hey, these four hours we're going to be
at the park. You get to spend one hundred and
fifty dollars or whatever at the park for the family.
Give them a specific area. And this extends beyond vacations
to especially I've heard this in the summer where parents
(17:59):
will give their kids a summer treat budget, and one
of my guests shared that their kid took that treat
budget and spent it all within like three days. Now,
those are the most sugar filled best days of their
life of the summer. But a month later, when they
had no money to spend on treats, they had to
quickly learn the consequences. So maybe you give your kid
a specific budget to spend for a specific day and
(18:21):
they have to manage it for the whole family, and
when you run out, you tell them you're out, and
you got to figure out the consequences. And of course,
as a parent, like know your kids and know if
they're going to overspend, maybe you plan a little bit
of buffer for that, because you don't want to be
left without any food on your vacation. But that kind
of idea is just giving them ownership over a specific area.
And this actually happened for me. I was just thinking
(18:43):
about this. My parents did this with one of our
first trips to Disneyland. They told us maybe a year,
year and a half in advance. We saved all of
the money we made from like cleaning up our grandparents' house,
mowing their lawns, neighbors lawns, whatever, right, And I remember
I prepared. I saved a whole lot of money, and
when we got there, I spent it all on one
big item. But it was one big item that I
(19:03):
had planned the entire time. I looked at it, like
every time we walked past the store in Disneyland, and
I enjoyed that toy forever. Yeah, now, it was because
it was my money. I really wanted this one item.
I really thought about it. I put a lot of
thought into it. I still know where the toy is
at my grandma's house, and I enjoy I think of
this memory every time I look at it. But I
was able to save my own money. I was able
(19:23):
to be intentional about spending it. It wasn't just my
parents handing me four hundred dollars or whatever to spend
over the trip, because that probably would have been blown
on just treats and candy and whatever, because it wasn't
my money. So adding some level of intentionality to it
and some intention and ownership to it, yeah, it can
be a huge deal for kids.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
We one of the greatest things that we have ever
done was give our kids a souvenir budget at Disney
and then watch them, you know, because you're you go
to the bathroom, you come out, there's a souvenir shop, right,
I mean, Disney doesn't do anything by accident, and they've
got souvenir shops everywhere. And just watch them, you know,
passed by things that I know that they would just
(20:03):
drop money on in a heartbeat. But there they stop
and they're thinking, wait a minute, if I spend this now,
I won't have you know. And so having to make
those decisions as we're going along was so interesting. I
mean it was almost it was almost to us like
an experiment, just to see what they would do, and
they made, I mean as reasonable decisions as you can
(20:24):
make buying souvenirs at Disney. They made some pretty good
rational decisions. So it was extremely interesting. Well, finally, if
you could give families just one piece of financial advice
for making vacation dreams, you know, become a reality, what
would it be.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, I think this is going to be regular meetings
for me, And I know it sounds business. Ye, it's
not romantic. It's not lights and like shiny objects and
stuff like that, but regular, consistent, one planning meetings around
your vacation so you actually know what you're gonna do
and what you're going to spend money on. And then two,
just extending into your normal personal finance. This is a
regular money talk or money conversation where you're sitting down
(21:05):
and saying, hey, I think we're spending too much on Amazon.
This is something my wife and I are dealing with
right now. We've learned that somehow I've become a spender.
We came in, but I'm the person that's going to
throw something on the Amazon order and just buy it
right away without thinking too much about it. So we've
implemented an Amazon cart day which is just a simple
(21:26):
minder on our phone. Every Friday night we look at
the cart and say, no, we don't really need anything
in there, and sometimes we do need something, but it's
just that extra layer of checking and that regular, consistent
conversation that helps so much. And so when it extends
to your vacation planning, one you actually know what you
want to do when you get there. You're not just
trying to find random things or letting the ads determine
everything that you want to do. So then you know
(21:47):
what you want to spend money on. You're able to
think ahead of it of how are we actually going
to save for this? Maybe maybe you do need to
work some overtime in order to pay for it, but
wouldn't you rather work that beforehand to say for it,
rather than after the fact trying to get get climb
out of the hole you dug yourself into. So just
really planning and setting some specific time aside before the
trip and just in general in your finances would be
(22:09):
the biggest tip that I give for people.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Well, you know, studies show that the anticipation of a
vacation is almost greater than actually enjoying the vacation.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Itself.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Now, I don't know how much I believe that, you know,
because I enjoy going on vacation, But I think it
would be a lot easier to work for something that's
coming as opposed to trying to pay something off on
the back end.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
So that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Enjoy your job a whole lot more. Yeah, doing it
ahead of time versus your crappy boss right telling you
what to do, and then you're also trying to get
out of this debt hole that you've dug yourself into.
So put the effort beforehand. It makes it a whole
lot more enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I just want to say I have a wonderful boss.
In case they're listening anyway.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Talking about too, I'm unemployed, So.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Talk about your podcast. Where can our listeners find you?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, Money Talk Dot Show the website where you can
find everything. Find the podcast. It's on YouTube. I would
send really anyone there if you have any questions. Of course,
there's a contact for them, but it's just really easy
to type in. It sounds exactly like you'd spell it
and everything Money Talk Dot.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Show awesome, Skyler, Thank you so much for coming on
the show and sharing your expertise.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I think a lot of families are going to walk
away from this episode with some really doable ways to
make their next vacation happen and happen without that financial stress.
We'll have links to Skyler's money Talks podcasts and his
other resources in the show notes, so be sure to
check all of that out. And speaking of planning for trips,
I am excited to let you know that my very
(23:40):
first book, The Family Vacationer, is coming soon. It's filled
with stories and tips and inspiration to help you create
your own unforgettable family travel memories. So stay tuned here
on the podcast and on our socials for that release date.
Don't forget to subscribe to The Family Vacationer on your
favorite podcast platform and connect with us on Instagram or
(24:02):
substack for even more family travel ideas and inspiration. Remember, folks,
to keep your passports and your heart open. Safe travels everyone.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I've got it.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
All the beach places and the hotel spaces, amusement park
rides and water.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Slides, mountain ranges and seasonal changes.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I'm here to serve on the family vacations. I've got
in food on all the beach places and hotel spaces,
amusement block rids and water slides, mountain ranges and seasonal changes.
(24:57):
I'm here to serve on the family vacationers, your family vacation,
Your family vacation. Now, I've got to let me want
to see a frame. It's this a mist do.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Go lost it?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Not stain me, said Change
Today on the Family Vacationer, we're talking money, specifically how
to save for your next family getaway without breaking the bank.
Our guest is Skylar Fleming, certified financial planner and host
of the Money Talks podcast. He's here to share practical,
real world tips to help you plan, save, and make
those dream vacations. The reality episode one starts right now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to The Family Vacationer with Robin.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Tracy, your go to podcast for families on the move.
Hey friends, Rob here and welcome to the Family Vacationers. Now,
if you're like most families like our family, one of
the biggest obstacles to taking that dream trip isn't time,
it's money. The good news is with a little planning
and some smart financial strategies, you can make those vacations
(00:55):
happen without draining your savings or relying on debt. Today
we're talking working with someone who knows a thing or
two about smart money moves. Skyler Fleming is a certified
financial planner and host of The Money Talks podcast, where
he helps people build strong money habits. He's here to
break down how families can budget, save, and plan so
(01:16):
travel dreams can become travel Memories. Scaler, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited for this.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Glad to have you on. Okay, before we get into
the nuts and bolts of vacation budgeting, I want to
know your stance on this. Are you more of a
splurge on experiences kind of guy?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Are you a stick to the budget? No matter what?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I am a splurge on experiences and that is because
of my wife. That is a change that has happened.
And we actually just celebrated our five year anniversary yesterday. Congratulations.
That's a change that's happened in these last five years.
It's become a splurge on experiences. And I'm sure I'm
gonna mention it, but our trip to Hawaii last year
was a splurge on experiences, but it wasn't without budgeting
and planning and really setting ourselves up to be able
(02:02):
to splurge comfortably.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, that's what I like to call it. So because
you have that foundation of the budgeting, you can splurdo.
That's that's great. All right, Well, we had so much
shaved ice.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Did you.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
My daughter just got back from her honeymoon from Hawaii.
Just got back. A couple of months ago. But but yeah,
they had the shaved ice, and did you have the
Hawaiian donuts? To forget what they're called.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I should remember, but probably I even tried raw coconut
or whatever that was disgusting. We tried a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And the rice that's no, okay, didn't that one never
crossed our plate?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah? I don't. I don't blame you. I wouldn't do
that either.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
All right, let's start with the big picture. Why is
it so important for families to financially plan for the
vacation instead of just winging it?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, well, I think if you hear what I just
talked about, where we were splurging comfortably. We were going
out to get shaved ice, probably twice a day, and
we would just drive there, pick it up, hang out
at that little park set up near the place, and
we didn't really care. And when was the last time
you were able to say I didn't really care that
I was spending money. And that's why building this I
(03:09):
guess financial plan for your vacation plan is so much
better than winging it. There's so much less guilt. You
enjoy spending that money, and there's not debt coming home
with you. You're pre saving for those things. And I
know we're going to talk about how debt and vacations
play a role together, but just the idea of being
able to spend without necessarily feeling guilty about it. Like
my wife and I have a trip to New York
(03:31):
in two weeks actually, and we've been saving for that
one since our Hawaii wan and even before then, using
some of the strategies we'll talk about today, But just
this long term approach to saving for it. We're not
we're going to go to a Broadway show. We're going
to go out to a nice dinner. Like there's all
these expenses that people dream about doing that because of
some pre planning and getting ahead of the expenses make
(03:52):
it a whole lot easier to just enjoy instead of
worry about.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So when a family sits down to create a vacation budget,
what's the very first step they should take.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
I think you just got to do a simple search
of cost estimates. I think you need to really like
actually put money into a role in this planning because
money is going to play a factor in this, whether
you can actually afford it or not. You need to
kind of get your mind wrapped around that because maybe
you just can't afford that trip and that's going to
be a harsh reality. But instead of trying to force
(04:24):
it and putting it all on debt or on credit cards,
maybe you should say, I actually can't afford that trip
right now, and you start to make it a goal
a couple of years in the future. But you need
to start with just some simple cost estimates and start
with the things that need to be paid first. Like
a flight. You're gonna have to pay that expense well
in advance, and it's not going to be like a
hotel where maybe you can place a reservation and you
(04:44):
can pay for it at the trip when you actually
get there. But start with those things that you're gonna
have to pay maybe six eight months in advance, because
those are the ones that tend to go on a
credit card because you're not even ready for the vacation yet.
It's still many months away, but you're starting to pay
for the So start with those things that'll come soonest
and try to recrimind around those.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
How far in advance would you recommend families start saving
for a big trip.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Well, it's likely that if you're thinking about these big trips,
like if I just mentioned Hawaii in New York, we're
doing that in back to back years. But that wasn't
because we just randomly thought of it in one evening.
Like the Hawaii trip. My wife was in PA school
to become a physician assistant, and at the beginning of
PA school she mentioned in going to Hawaii, and then
I mistakingly floated the idea of telling her I would
(05:30):
take her after PA school graduation. So then once I
said that, she's like, are you serious? And I was like, well, shoot,
I guess I am now. So because I knew the
expense of a potential Hawaii trip, because we had talked
about the idea before. Yeah, once you start talking about
those ideas, it was several years before the trip actually happened.
That's when you got to start thinking about it. Financially,
it's several years. And understand that if you're looking at
(05:51):
cost estimates now for something, maybe it'll go up and
you need to plan a little bit more because it's
a couple of years away. But no trip is suddenly
thought of overnight. You're not thinking about your big New
York City trip or your big trip to Canada or wherever.
You want to go, You're not just randomly thinking about it.
You're planning it for years. Social media is giving you
those reels and YouTube shorts and whatever years in advance
(06:13):
that are planting those seeds. So start thinking about the
money then as well, so that you can actually be prepared.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What are the cost categories that families often forget when there,
when they're making their budget.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I think one of the main ones that we've seen,
my wife and I and our vacation planning is what
kind of things are you going to need for the trip?
So our trip to Hawaii, we wanted to bring our
own snorkel gear because we were going to do a
lot of swimming, and it's not super expensive. But those
are the kind of things that maybe new clothes, maybe
you need new shoes because you're going to do a
lot of walking. It's the things that you're not actually
(06:46):
spending money on the trip or actually at the location,
but rather you're spending it for the location or to
get there. Those are the things that just quickly get ignored.
They get thrown on your in your Amazon cart and
you never really think twice about it. And then, of course,
the one that everyone's budgets, both at home and on vacations.
It's food, right, how are you going to eat? Where
you can eat? How much money are you gonna spend?
It's going to be more expensive that shady dice that
(07:08):
I mentioned. It is really expensive for ice. It's just ice,
but that sort of stuff adds up quickly, and then
suddenly you're breaking your budget and you're starting to go
into debt for your trip.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Which nobody wants. Let's talk savings strategies. What are some
practical ways to consistently set aside money for travel without
cutting into your essentials.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Your everyday needs.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Budgeting for it every single month. And I know budgeting
is kind of a bad word, but I host the
Money podcast, so it's very much in my lingo. So
if you want to call it something else, like spend
planning or planning to spend or whatever you want to
call it. But my wife and I have our vacation
budget category that we budget something into, but it's hardly
ever close to how much we're actually spending in that
specific month. So I'm going to keep talking about the
(07:55):
Hawaii trip because it's a perfect example. We did this
really well, and we have this big vacation we were
saving for. We saved for it for probably two or
three years, but there would be months where we were
maybe putting a few hundred dollars into this vacation fund,
but maybe we would spend like thirty bucks out of
it because of some little camping trip we did. Right,
that's still a vacation, right, but it's not six hundred
(08:15):
dollars worth. So now we have five hundred and fifty left.
And that is how we built up just some extra
money over time to have several thousands of dollars that
we were able to take with us to Hawaii to
not have to worry about going into debt. So setting
a regular, repeating, continual budget that you can stick to
and make sure it's realistic, because it's not going to
be realistic when you're approaching the vacation and you got
(08:37):
four or five thousand dollars you need to save. Most people,
I don't know where my wife and I would come
up with one thousand dollars a month to be able
to save for it in those last couple months before
a trip. Yeah, So don't put so much pressure on
yourself and spread it out.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Do you recommend using specific saving tools or opening account
specifically for you know, the vacation money that you're setting aside.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, that's the specific account is a great idea. Even
beyond vacation, could we could get into this too, but
even just beyond vacation, just your normal savings, having somewhere
that it's separate from your checking account is going to
make sure that it's actually saved and protected. But especially
for vacation stuff, you're probably, like I just said, planning
for it a year or two in advance. Something like
(09:21):
a certificate of deposit or they're often called CDs, that
could be a great place to just park the money,
let it earn some little bit of extra interest. It
has some restriction on it, so you're not going to
pull it out and spend it. And then even some
credit unions and banks have what's called like a dedicated
savings account where it's similar to a CD with some
restrictions and a higher interest rate, but you can add
money to it. Those are a great way to kind
(09:43):
of lock yourself out of the money. And I know,
like retirement accounts, right, they have these rules that you
can't access the money until a certain point. That is
to make sure you actually keep the money in there
for retirement. So set up your vacation account in the
same way. Like if you want it to be for
a vacation in two years, find a two year see
put your money in there that you have saved, and
then you can't really touch it without some sort of
(10:04):
penalty or maybe some drawbacks on it. So that's going
to help you stick to it and make sure the
money's actually used. But that's what we use for ours,
and we made a couple hundred extra bucks on the
money that was just sitting there, and that paid for
whatever we wanted to when we were there because we
didn't really have to worry about it.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, I know many families use credit card points or
loyalty programs, and I know that companies spend lots of
money on researching these. They don't do it out of
the goodness of their heart. What's the best way to
maximize these without falling into debt traps?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah? I know what you can handle. And for me,
like you would think, oh, you're a podcast host, you
talk about money all the time, you're probably big in
the credit card space. I am not. This is an
area that gets overwhelming for me, and I just don't
really want to bother with it because it is so overwhelming.
There can be so much going on. And one thing
that I want to give all your listeners permission, if
(11:00):
you just want a cash back card, stick with it.
Just stick with some sort of basic cash back, because
these reward and loyalty programs are so confusing and complex
on purpose, right, Yeah, they want to make it. I
heard it explained like those old coupon books that you
used to get it, like for school fundraisers or whatever.
But there would be like certain parameters or you'd have
to buy three get two free, like just these weird
(11:21):
rules that were like just above the thresholds of what
you were comfortable with spending. Yeah, and that's the same
sort of stuff they do with the credit card awards.
They're like, you spend four nights, you get five free.
They probably know the research is most people only stay
three nights, so they're trying to bump you up a
couple extra nights to earn some extra spending. They know
what they're doing, and I think that's the biggest thing.
These credit cards have twenty eight, twenty five thirty percent
(11:42):
interest rates on them, right especially the ones that are
really built for travel rewards, if you had some sort
of investment that was making you twenty five percent interest,
like these credit cards are for the credit card companies.
Put yourself in their shoes, and now you understand why
they market them so heavily, why there's so much money
going into marketing credit cards and trying to get you
to sign up for these bonuses, because they are going
(12:03):
to make so much money off you if you let
that debt roll over. But I could keep going on
credit cards. So please, if you have any other questions,
I'd love to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Oh, I try to stay away from them.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
For families who might be tempted to put the entire
vacation on a credit card, what would you say to that.
I have a feeling you have a pretty distinct opinion
about this one.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, don't do it. Vacations are a want, their desire, like,
they're not something that you should be financing with debt.
And that's a tough reality and a tough pill for
people to swallow, because sometimes it can be hard to
save for those vacations and actually save up. I don't
think there's anything wrong with using credit cards. It all
comes into carrying that balance on them. And if you're
(12:46):
using a credit card to pay for your vacation six
twelve months after the vacation happened, that's just going to
stain those wonderful memories that you made on the vacation
by making you think about, I'm still paying off the
shaved ice or whatever it is the place you're going.
That seems so silly when you start getting down the
road further and it just becomes such a I guess
anchor and like chain around your neck. That just ruins
(13:09):
the vacation, honestly is how I view it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Well, yeah, and it does that later, but it also
I think puts pressure on parents when they're on the vacations,
Like we're spending all this money, so there's all this
added pressure to have a good time, or your expectations
get raised because you're spending more than you know, like
going to Hawaii, Like you're spending quite a bit of money,
so your expectations are higher. And you know, sometimes we
(13:34):
transfer that onto the kids and they don't have the
same concepts of money. It's not fair to put pressure
on them. Likely you have to have a good time
because we're spending x amount of money so.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, and even just to your point there, my wife
and I we just recently got a credit card with
a sign up bonus. And this is something that if
we have a moment, I'd love to talk about how
you can use those for your vacation. But we just
got a credit card for a sign up bonus for
a New York trip. It's actually the second one that
we've got to be able to get some points on
because of our spending. But I think that's where credit
card rewards can be extremely useful, as if you know
(14:06):
there's spending that's going to allow you to meet a
sign up bonus, then go for it. We got a
card that has I think it's a four hundred dollars
annual fee, right, that's crazy, It's crazy in my book.
I don't know if we'll keep it and renew it,
will probably downgrade it because you can do that. But
this card is going to allow us to get a
ton of points because the spending is going to be
very easy. We did the math on like the hotels
that we already have reserved that we're going to have
(14:27):
to pay for at the location, and it gets us
within like eight hundred dollars of the bonus. Now most families,
you're probably spending at least eight hundred dollars over a
couple months, so you just have to look at it
and really plan ahead and then you can pull the trigger.
Never pull a credit card sign up bonus thinking you're
going to manage to get it, because my wife and
I did that at the very beginning of our marriage.
(14:49):
We were like, hey, here's a cool credit card bonus.
We've heard of this, let's do it. And we found
ourselselves towards the last month of the credit card bonus
period buy an extra stuff that we didn't really need,
kind of making up excuses, and that's where it gets
super dangerous. Now, it wasn't a massive amount, thankfully we
weren't in debt over it, but that can easily land
you in credit card debt, especially when you're on your
(15:10):
trip and you think, hey, we need to spend an
extra three hundred dollars to meet the sign up bonus,
but you don't really need to spend it. Now, you're
just trying to find something to spend money on. And
if you want to just give away money, I'll happily
take it, but don't just give it to the credit
card companies, and then also to your point of just
spending for spending sake, then the kids don't really have
a good grasp of what's expensive or what we're just
(15:32):
spending on that credit card that we just got with
the sign up bonus has a thirty thousand dollars line
of credit that is way more money than we would
ever need to spend on a credit card, let alone
within a certain window. That is so dangerous. We completely
ignore our credit card limits because they're never going to
be within our budget and they're never going to be
less than a realistic amount of spend because they want
(15:53):
to push you up higher and higher into maxing out
all these credit cards. So my advice is only get
a credit card when you know you can meet the
sign up bonus ahead of time. If you're left wondering,
I don't know if we'll make it or it'll be
kind of tight, just don't bother. It's not worth it,
and then ignore the credit card limits. Ignore them because
you should have your budget or cash flow set up
(16:14):
so that you can pay it off regardless of how
much balance is on there. If you can't, then you
start getting into tricky territory. But don't think I have
thirty thousand dollars to spend. Think I have two thousand
dollars to spend because that was my budget.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
You know, it's almost like the credit card companies are
in it to get you in debt. It's almost like
they plan for that. Oh they are oh a little
sarcasm there.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They don't make money off of these free rewards, right right.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I love the idea of involving kids in the vacation process.
How can parents make vacation budgeting fun and still teach
our kids something in that whole experience.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, this is a method that I've heard applied to
other areas of money with kids as well. I don't
have kids on my own. With many and my wife,
we don't have any children. But I have talked on
my podcast on or per two hundred episodes, so I've
had a great handful of people and to help me
in this area. So I've picked up a few tips
(17:17):
from them. Yeah, and one of them is to get
the kids involved in specific areas or give them. Maybe
you're sixteen or seventeen year old is really wanting to
learn how to budget and how to save money. Maybe
you give them an entire day of the trip to
plan the finances around it. Or maybe you're ten or
eleven or twelve year old, maybe you give them one
(17:38):
specific element of the trip, so like that you give
them all the lunches or something like that, or you
give them, hey, these four hours we're going to be
at the park. You get to spend one hundred and
fifty dollars or whatever at the park for the family.
Give them a specific area. And this extends beyond vacations
to especially I've heard this in the summer where parents
(17:59):
will give their kids a summer treat budget, and one
of my guests shared that their kid took that treat
budget and spent it all within like three days. Now,
those are the most sugar filled best days of their
life of the summer. But a month later, when they
had no money to spend on treats, they had to
quickly learn the consequences. So maybe you give your kid
a specific budget to spend for a specific day and
(18:21):
they have to manage it for the whole family, and
when you run out, you tell them you're out, and
you got to figure out the consequences. And of course,
as a parent, like know your kids and know if
they're going to overspend, maybe you plan a little bit
of buffer for that, because you don't want to be
left without any food on your vacation. But that kind
of idea is just giving them ownership over a specific area.
And this actually happened for me. I was just thinking
(18:43):
about this. My parents did this with one of our
first trips to Disneyland. They told us maybe a year,
year and a half in advance. We saved all of
the money we made from like cleaning up our grandparents' house,
mowing their lawns, neighbors lawns, whatever, right, And I remember
I prepared. I saved a whole lot of money, and
when we got there, I spent it all on one
big item. But it was one big item that I
(19:03):
had planned the entire time. I looked at it, like
every time we walked past the store in Disneyland, and
I enjoyed that toy forever. Yeah, now, it was because
it was my money. I really wanted this one item.
I really thought about it. I put a lot of
thought into it. I still know where the toy is
at my grandma's house, and I enjoy I think of
this memory every time I look at it. But I
was able to save my own money. I was able
(19:23):
to be intentional about spending it. It wasn't just my
parents handing me four hundred dollars or whatever to spend
over the trip, because that probably would have been blown
on just treats and candy and whatever, because it wasn't
my money. So adding some level of intentionality to it
and some intention and ownership to it, yeah, it can
be a huge deal for kids.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
We one of the greatest things that we have ever
done was give our kids a souvenir budget at Disney
and then watch them, you know, because you're you go
to the bathroom, you come out, there's a souvenir shop, right,
I mean, Disney doesn't do anything by accident, and they've
got souvenir shops everywhere. And just watch them, you know,
passed by things that I know that they would just
(20:03):
drop money on in a heartbeat. But there they stop
and they're thinking, wait a minute, if I spend this now,
I won't have you know. And so having to make
those decisions as we're going along was so interesting. I
mean it was almost it was almost to us like
an experiment, just to see what they would do, and
they made, I mean as reasonable decisions as you can
(20:24):
make buying souvenirs at Disney. They made some pretty good
rational decisions. So it was extremely interesting. Well, finally, if
you could give families just one piece of financial advice
for making vacation dreams, you know, become a reality, what
would it be.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, I think this is going to be regular meetings
for me, And I know it sounds business. Ye, it's
not romantic. It's not lights and like shiny objects and
stuff like that, but regular, consistent, one planning meetings around
your vacation so you actually know what you're gonna do
and what you're going to spend money on. And then two,
just extending into your normal personal finance. This is a
regular money talk or money conversation where you're sitting down
(21:05):
and saying, hey, I think we're spending too much on Amazon.
This is something my wife and I are dealing with
right now. We've learned that somehow I've become a spender.
We came in, but I'm the person that's going to
throw something on the Amazon order and just buy it
right away without thinking too much about it. So we've
implemented an Amazon cart day which is just a simple
(21:26):
minder on our phone. Every Friday night we look at
the cart and say, no, we don't really need anything
in there, and sometimes we do need something, but it's
just that extra layer of checking and that regular, consistent
conversation that helps so much. And so when it extends
to your vacation planning, one you actually know what you
want to do when you get there. You're not just
trying to find random things or letting the ads determine
everything that you want to do. So then you know
(21:47):
what you want to spend money on. You're able to
think ahead of it of how are we actually going
to save for this? Maybe maybe you do need to
work some overtime in order to pay for it, but
wouldn't you rather work that beforehand to say for it,
rather than after the fact trying to get get climb
out of the hole you dug yourself into. So just
really planning and setting some specific time aside before the
trip and just in general in your finances would be
(22:09):
the biggest tip that I give for people.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Well, you know, studies show that the anticipation of a
vacation is almost greater than actually enjoying the vacation.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Itself.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Now, I don't know how much I believe that, you know,
because I enjoy going on vacation, But I think it
would be a lot easier to work for something that's
coming as opposed to trying to pay something off on
the back end.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
So that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Enjoy your job a whole lot more. Yeah, doing it
ahead of time versus your crappy boss right telling you
what to do, and then you're also trying to get
out of this debt hole that you've dug yourself into.
So put the effort beforehand. It makes it a whole
lot more enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I just want to say I have a wonderful boss.
In case they're listening anyway.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Talking about too, I'm unemployed, So.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Talk about your podcast. Where can our listeners find you?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, Money Talk Dot Show the website where you can
find everything. Find the podcast. It's on YouTube. I would
send really anyone there if you have any questions. Of course,
there's a contact for them, but it's just really easy
to type in. It sounds exactly like you'd spell it
and everything Money Talk Dot.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Show awesome, Skyler, Thank you so much for coming on
the show and sharing your expertise.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I think a lot of families are going to walk
away from this episode with some really doable ways to
make their next vacation happen and happen without that financial stress.
We'll have links to Skyler's money Talks podcasts and his
other resources in the show notes, so be sure to
check all of that out. And speaking of planning for trips,
I am excited to let you know that my very
(23:40):
first book, The Family Vacationer, is coming soon. It's filled
with stories and tips and inspiration to help you create
your own unforgettable family travel memories. So stay tuned here
on the podcast and on our socials for that release date.
Don't forget to subscribe to The Family Vacationer on your
favorite podcast platform and connect with us on Instagram or
(24:02):
substack for even more family travel ideas and inspiration. Remember, folks,
to keep your passports and your heart open. Safe travels everyone.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I've got it.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
All the beach places and the hotel spaces, amusement park
rides and water.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Slides, mountain ranges and seasonal changes.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I'm here to serve on the family vacations. I've got
in food on all the beach places and hotel spaces,
amusement block rids and water slides, mountain ranges and seasonal changes.
(24:57):
I'm here to serve on the family vacationers, your family vacation,
Your family vacation. Now, I've got to let me want
to see a frame. It's this a mist do.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Go lost it?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Not stain me, said Change
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