Avatar the Last Airbender Book 2 – Aang's Growth, Iroh's Grief & Earth-Shattering Character Arcs and Avatar News with Luke Newton - The Fandom Portals Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
everyone's a gangster until I start singing and then
everyone's crying.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
So welcome to the phantom portals podcast, the
podcast that explores howphantoms can help us learn and
grow.
Today we have an episode thathas been a long time in the

(00:26):
making.
I'm joined once again by LukeNewton, and he is the perfect
guest to talk everything.
Avatar the Last Airbender.
He featured in an episode earlyon in the fandom portals run I
think it was episode 12 orsomething like that, but you
should go and see it, because wetalked about book one, the
airbook, and now we're backagain to talk about book two,
the Earthbook.
Avatar the Last Airbender.

(00:46):
Luke, how are you going today?
It's good to have you back onthe podcast.
Yeah, I'm good, thanks.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Aaron, glad to be back.
Good to have you back, man.
Good to have you back In totalk everything Avatar.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, everything.
Avatar.
We just did a little test aswell because we wanted to see
preferred bending was.
And do you want to reveal toour amazing audience what you
got, Luke?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I got Earthbender, which I'm not mad about.
Obviously, my favorite elementis fire, so it is what it is.
But, to be fair, I like all theelements pretty equally, but
I'll take Earthbending.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, they all have their definite upsides.
I got Firebending, which is myfavorite and also one that I
think pretty well fits me also,so my favorite character through
the series is.
Zuko.
He's a firebender, so I can'tcomplain about that either.
So we're going to start off bylooking.
Well, actually, I'll tell youwhat we're doing in this podcast
first.
So in this episode, guys,you're going to learn all about
the character arcs for book two.

(01:40):
We're going to look at AangZuko and Toph, and we might jump
into Azula there a little bitas well.
We're going to talk about someof the most meaningful episodes
to myself and to Luke, and we'regoing to look at some hot takes
from our fandom portalscommunity and have a chat about
some of the questions you guyshave sent in as well.
But before we do that, the veryfirst thing we're going to do
is going to update you on allthe avatar news so you guys can

(02:01):
know exactly what is coming outin the world of avatar the last
airbender at time of recording,which is 2025.
So what are you most excitedfor, luke, that's coming out
from the avatar world so far?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
well, I do know that they are making a new
earthbending series.
That's I'm looking forward tothat.
But I think I'm most keen foris the new adult animated
feature that they're doing.
I know it's been delayed acouple of times.
I'm not too sure exactly whenit's coming out, but I'm most
looking forward to that.
It'd be interesting to see howthey deal with the characters

(02:34):
that we all know and love Agedup a bit.
I believe they're in their 20s,or I think so because in his
30s or something.
So really cool to see how theyapproach that.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, something so really cool to see how they
approach that.
Yeah, yeah, and I've got theinformation here it is going to
be called the legend of ang thelast airbender.
It's an animated movie.
Uh, it has been delayed and isnow set to be released on the
9th of october 2026, so a littlebit of a ways off.
Uh, it says that this moviewill be a sequel to the original
animated series and it'sfocusing on those adult versions
of ang and his friends.
I know we get tidbits of thatin Korra because we see all the

(03:07):
ancestors of these characters aswell, but I think it'd be good
to dive into seeing exactly kindof what they did after the
series has concluded.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, I agree, I think it's obviously not really
explored too much, apart fromthe flashbacks with Korra, but
it doesn't really give you likea big picture of like what they
did, what happened and stuff,what sort of adversities they
faced.
So it'd be interesting to seehow they approach it.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, so far we've got Eric Nam, who is coming to
voice Aang in this series, andDave Bautista is set to be in a
role as the antagonist.
I don't know what characterhe's going to play and I don't
know if he's done any voiceacting before.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I know he's been dipping his toes in a few
different genres of film andstuff like that.
I can't recall if he's been inany animated stuff, but I'm sure
he's going to kill it anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree.
He's probably one of thewrestler turned actors that is
my favorite to watch because ofhis range and, as you know, he
moved away from the guardians ofthe galaxy and then he started
working with like directors likem night shamalan, and he's just
exploded from there and even inum oh, blade runner 2049.
If you've seen that, his smallrole in that was he just kicked

(04:15):
goals, everything that he did.
So very much looking forward tothat.
Yeah, me too.
All right, and uh, avatar sevenheavens is what the new animated
series is called as it's comingout.
The release date is set topremiere sometime in 2027.
I believe that has also beendelayed a few times as well.

(04:35):
It's said that the protagonistin this one is going to be an
Earthbender.
It's set after the time ofAvatar and Korra and it's also
been revealed that apparentlythis is going to be set in an
Avatar-esque modern time.
So our time basically and weknow that Korra sort of hits
that sort of steampunkindustrial revolution phase and
Avatar the Last Airbender ismuch before that how do you

(04:57):
think they're going to approach?
Looking at the Avatar world andhaving the Avatar in a real
world setting and it says hereas well that it's also supposed
to be set after the events of acataclysm, a big, world
shattering event yeah, that'swhat I heard too.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I heard that it was like like very much apocalyptic
type type um environment, soshould be interesting.
I've also heard that apparentlythe the twins, the avatar is
like a twin.
I don't know if they're bothavatars or if it's just one of
them is the Avatar, but I candefinitely see how they could
make two Avatars based off.
You know, you find out a littlebit more about the Avatar

(05:33):
spirits and stuff, and there'slike a good one and a bad one.
So, you know, I can see howthey could potentially be two
Avatars.
But yeah, I'm just going to seehow they approach it.
I imagine that, like we see inKorra, you know, just because
you don't have bending doesn'tmean you can't put up a good
fight with all the technologyand stuff that they do introduce
.
So it'd be interesting to seehow that's progressed as well,
like if bending is like stillthe best way to sort of fight or

(05:56):
if, like everyday people havejust become so adept at being
able to deal with benders thatit's really equal footing now
able to deal with benders.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
That is really equal footing now be interesting.
Well, I have.
I've also heard the the uh, theinfo that says that they're
going to be twin protagonistsand from what I've heard, one is
is finds out that they're theavatar as an earth bender, uh,
and then the other one is alsoan earth bender.
So whether they reveal later onthat second twin is the other
half of that avatar, the goodand the evil, that will be
interesting because it's notreally been done before.
They have said that they'regoing to release 26 episodes and

(06:28):
potentially split it into twoseasons.
So hopefully when they bringthat out, I think it's going to
be very well received.
But also something that a lotof the fans have been waiting
for for quite a long time.
Yeah, 100%, and still followingthat 2D animation that they're
well known for and I think thateverybody loves, and with the
oversaturation of not that I'mcomplaining, but the
oversaturation of 3D animated,computer animated movies and TV

(06:51):
shows, I think it's alwaysawesome to go back to that 2D
style because even watching bookone and book two of the Avatar,
the last Airbender series thatwas made like in the mid 2000s
they still hold up today like Ithink they're really really well
drawn.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, exactly, I feel like, especially with the
original series, you can seewhen they use the like they do
like the 3d sort of animationfor like the fire nation tanks
and and the blimps and stufflike that, um, that you see, um,
so that's.
It's sort of interesting.
They sort of weave it in hereand there but it still still
definitely holds up.
In Korra they use a lot more ofthe 3D animation, still makes

(07:29):
it 2D, but you can really tellwhen it switches from the like
the 2D to the 3D.
Sometimes can be a little bitjarring, but you know it's all
up to personal preference.
Some people love it, some peopledon't.
But I agree with you that the2D animation really don't see
enough of it anymore.
And I feel like it makes sensebecause when you have the 3D one

(07:50):
it's easy to, if you makemistakes, go back and fix it.
The computers can do a lot ofthe computing for you, whereas
the 2D one's very muchhand-drawn and a lot longer
process.
So I understand the logisticsbehind it all, but when you do
see those 2D animations they arequite like they're just good to
look at.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, exactly right.
We've talked about a lot of thethings that are coming out that
people can't access, butcurrently they've also released
which was released in 2024, anovel called the Reckoning of
Roku.
I know you're a fan of some ofthe novels.
Have you read that one yet?

Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, so I actually saw it at the bookstore when I was
there the other day.
I have been looking at it.
So obviously I've got both theKyoshi ones, both the Yang Chin
ones and then the Roku one I'mlooking to get.
But I'm still like on the lastYang Chin book because I've just
been pretty busy and readinghasn't been on top of my

(08:40):
priority.
But definitely will be gettingit because I know there's some
pretty good information thereabout R and then obviously a
little bit, a little bit aboutkiyoshi as well.
So I'm very excited to jumpinto that.
But yeah, it's just something Ihaven't got around to yet?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
yeah, no, it's.
It's set during the the avatarroku era, obviously, and it's
also featuring uh, ghiatso aswell, so ghiatso plays a part in
the book.
Uh, there's also heaps of comicbooks that have been released
for Avatar, the Last Airbender.
There's one set in the era ofAang the Bounty Hunter and the
Tea Brewer, which is a storyabout Iroh, and there is also

(09:12):
the Mystery of Penquan Island,which follows Mako and Bolin as
they travel to the islands there.
So if you are desperate to getsome avatar in your life and
you're waiting for these seriesto drop and you haven't
pre-watched the series for the150th time, then you can get
your hands on some of thosebooks to have a little bit of a
look at as well.
All right, let's jump into somecharacter arcs for book two

(09:35):
first of all.
Uh, if anybody hasn't realized,we are going to be spoiling
everything from from book twoand probably everything from
book one as well.
I haven't seen all all of bookthree, as we mentioned in book
one.
I'm watching these for thefirst time at the humble age of
35, because of a lot of friendrecommendations, but especially
Luke telling me how great theyare, and so far I agree.
So from here on out there willbe spoilers.
Go and watch it and then comeback and listen to this episode.

(09:57):
All right.
So with our characters in booktwo, we arrive in book two, we
arrive at these characters inseason two, episode one, and
Aang is really exploring.
Let's start with Aang.
He's really exploring thatavatar state that is revealed in
the end of book one book oneWater and he ends up going to an
Earth kingdom where he thinkshe's safe.

(10:20):
But then he learns a veryimportant and valuable lesson in
terms of how people view him asthe Avatar.
So far it has been as a savior,but he was received very
differently in this very firstepisode, and I think it was an
interesting way to start theseries because it pivots your
perspective on the Avatar andshows you a new way of how some

(10:41):
people in the avatar world seethis almost religious figure.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, I actually love the way the season
two opens.
I think that, like you said, itdoes give you a sort of shift
on how people view the avatar.
Some people see him as areligious figure, some people
see him as the bridge betweenthe worlds, some people see him
as a weapon to use in the war.
Some people see him as a weaponto use in the war.

(11:07):
So there's heaps of differentpeople see the Avatar in several
different aspects.
But the thing I like the mostabout the opening of this book
is that up until this point youknow that when his eyes and his
tattoos glow, you think, okay,my stuff's getting real now.
He ain't messing around and hejust seems to have limitless

(11:28):
power when he's in that form.
But I think what I really likeabout it is that the show
straight away you can see thequality of the animation is like
bumped up from season one, butalso the themes as well that
they introduce straight away inepisode one of season two is
like incredible.
So what I'm really talking aboutis the weight, like they add
stakes to our heroes, likehaving limitless power is all

(11:51):
well and good, but if it's justunlimited power, then you know
it's just every fighter getsinto his avatar state, he wins,
like.
You know what I mean.
So there's no, there's no likestakes, there's no like stakes,
there's no like.
Okay, the audience can sort ofget dulled by that If you just
keep doing the same thing, samething again.
But what I like is when he hasthat spirit ride with Roku and
he goes.
The Avatar state is like amechanism.

(12:12):
It's all your past liveschanneling, challenging,
challenging, channeling theenergy through you and you're at
your most powerful, but also atyour most vulnerable and also
at your most vulnerable.
And then you know, if you'rekilled when you're in the avatar
state, the cycle of the avatarwill be broken and it will cease
to exist.
Like that's crazy good, likestakes and weight of a form that
we used to think could just doanything.

(12:33):
But now you're just like oh,actually you can't just use it,
will I nearly?
Because if it does get likestruck down, then that's it like
somewhere, avatar.
So I think that's a reallygreat way of like up the first
season.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
I agree with you and I hadn't really thought about it
until you put it that way,because there has been a lot of
characters in the media that weconsume all the time that just
get too powerful and then thewriters just really don't know
what to do with them.
We've seen it with Miss Marvelin Avengers Endgame.
They conveniently put her offto the side and said she's
dealing with things in spacebecause if she was at Earth?
Off to the side and said she'sdealing with things in space

(13:05):
because if she was at Earth,she'd just destroy everything
that came into contact and therewould be real no stakes through
the movie.
So I think that this was areally clever way to negate that
.
But also imagine beingresponsible and being the one
who ended the legacy of theAvatar for everybody based on a
mistake you made.
So I think that that adds notonly weight to the audience who

(13:25):
says there's some real risk herewhen he's, you know, losing his
shit and going into the avataravatar phase, but there's also
just that as ang himself,because we know that he's a
character that can be quiteemotional and he's only just
starting to bear the weight ofresponsibility.
But once he does in that way, Ithink it's something that he
would take to heart and takequite seriously, because he does

(13:49):
have that burden ofresponsibility which he starts
to learn and grow through as hestarted as, like a lighthearted
sort of pacifist.
He definitely becomes moreconflicted through this book
yeah, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
And another thing too book yeah, yeah, 100%.
And another thing too that's um, like we should mention as well
that.
Uh, like, like you said, he, um, he starts the.
He starts the series likepretty goofy, and then as it
goes on he sort of getsconflicted with all the
responsibility.
But also he, he can't like atthis point in the series, like
he can't control what he does.
When he's in that avatar state,he gets all sort of like

(14:23):
possessed and then he just doesthings.
And then he comes to and likelooks around at the end of the
episode and he's like what haveI done to this earth kingdom?
I have just like destroyed itall.
And he's like not really awareof what he's doing.
So that's another thing too.
Like imagine having all thispower, but then you're just like
someone, like you're in thebackseat, you're not actually
conscious of what you're doing,it's just being taken for a ride

(14:44):
.
So like that's pretty scary aswell.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, I think it was definitely well planned, because
there would have been somepeople asking the question if he
can transform into that andjust destroy everybody, why
doesn't he go to the Fire Nationright now and just wipe out all
their tanks?

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Which is what the general does.
He goes we can attack the finenation now, with you leading the
way as the avatar state.
And you know it sounds like agreat idea, because at the end
of the book one you see himbecome a massive, like you know,
koi fish, with the, with theocean spirit, and he decimates
the whole fleet, fine nationfleet.
So you think, oh well, what arewe waiting for?
Let's just go right now.
But you know, once again theyjust nail it with, like, the

(15:20):
storytelling and the worldbuilding.
Um, and I also love that inthis episode you have the
parallels of Aang, and then youhave the parallels of Zuko, and
then you get introduced to, likeone of my favorite villains,
azula as well, completelydifferent from what we've
experienced in the show thus faras well.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I think they definitely kicked it off really,
really well.
But Aang sort of goes on thisjourney as well, because that's
when he starts to realize theweight of his responsibility and
then he learns that he has totry and control that power.
He's still on his avatarjourney, so he needs to actually
go through the process oflearning how to bend all the
elements.
And I've heard because youcan't live in this day and age

(16:00):
and not get any spoilers so I'dalways heard ofoph, but I had
never seen any episodes with her.
I never saw anything about her.
I know that she was a fanfavorite as well and she
premieres in this episode or inthis series as well, in the
episode six, the Blind Bandit.
Do you want to give us a littlebit of a rundown of Toph and
her relationship with Aang andwhat she does for Aang through

(16:23):
the series?
Yeah, and what?

Speaker 1 (16:23):
she does for Aang through the series, yeah, 100%.
So Toph, like you said, fanfavorite you can see why she's
like an absolute badass andeverything she does she's so
good.
But yeah, she's like the polaropposite to Aang, like Katara
even says it as well.
Like the opposite to water isfire, so the opposite to air is
earth.
But not just in the way thebending works, but also in the

(16:45):
way that they they think as well.
Like you know, airbenders are,you know, pacifists.
For the most part they like toavoid it, like they like to, um,
you know, avoid conflict andthat they only use like violence
as like self-defense lastresort.
Then you have earthbenders thatare like stubborn, headstrong,
happy to take on a fight.
They're like a rock, for lackof a better word.

(17:07):
Um, and it's just that thosetwo ways of thinking really come
out ahead, especially when youknow he's trying to learn
earthbending from toff andtoff's just like, just take it
head on, like you'll never learnif you don't do this head on.
And then he keeps avoiding therock and he won't, he won't bend
it.
And you know she calls himtwinkle toes because he's light
on his feet and she's veryobviously, you know she's blind.

(17:27):
So she, the way she sees isthrough the vibrations of the
earth, so she, the heavier youare, the more noise you make,
the easier it is for toff tosort of you know, get get to you
and understand what you'redoing.
So having having someone liketoff that challenges the way ang
thinks about not fighting butbending, and also how he
approaches things, like you knowto be a great Earthbender, you

(17:48):
probably have to think how anEarthbender would think you know
what I mean.
So having Toph therecontinuously challenging Aang on
like who he is as a person,like how to approach situations,
I think that's like really goodfor his character arc and
growth as well.
But also Toph learns thingsfrom from Aang and Katara, as
well as Sokka, like she learnsshe obviously being an only

(18:10):
child, being a rich only child,being very sheltered for most of
her life, apart from when shesnuck out, you know, to do the,
the wrestling tournaments, thewrestling tournaments which is
awesome, by the way.
She's been very sheltered inthat sense.
So she also doesn't know how tobe around people and be a part
of a team.
It's always her, her, her.
So I think she learns a lotfrom Aang and Suga and Sokka and

(18:32):
Katara?

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, I think so too, and you know, the best thing
that I saw, being of a teachingbackground, is looking at how
Hoth approached her trainingwith Aang, because Aang's
teachers previously had verymuch panned to him or done a
gentle approach, or they try toteach him lessons through the
nuance of hyperbole and metaphor.

(18:55):
They try to get him to dosomething Karate Kid style.
If you wax on and wax off,you'll learn how to block and
things like that.
But Toph is very direct in herway.
If he does something that'sincorrect, he will give, she
will give direct feedback andsometimes it's abrasive, like
you know, pouring gravel downdown the side of a hill, and
there's an episode in this bookthat I watched and he doesn't

(19:16):
take that feedback well, becausehe's not used to it.
But in the end I feel like helearns to accept that sometimes
feedback doesn't come to you howyou would like it.
But also her intentions werevery well meant and she's trying
to help him.
And I think they go throughthis process of finding a happy
medium with each other and Ithink you know, aang realizes

(19:39):
through this that learningdoesn't always come in the way
that he wants.
But also through that episodehe realizes that power doesn't
always look what you, what youexpect it to look like, because
toff is very unassuming yeah,very much so.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
And to add on that too, is that, like, up until
this point, everything thatang's done he sort of excelled
at, like he's obviously been.
He's a master airbender at theage of 11.
He he's picked up waterbendingpretty well and he was doing
better than Katara at the start.
You know he was doing thingsthat made Katara frustrated
because she couldn't do them.
So up to this point he's prettymuch like had no issues with

(20:14):
mastering airbending and thenobviously getting the hang of
waterbending really, reallyquickly.
But then he comes toearthbending and he just he
can't.
He banging and just he can't,he's, he's not getting it
straight away.
So I think that also leads topart of his like frustration as
a character.
Like you know, he's he's neverhad to actually work at
something for long periods oftime.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
It's always just really come to him.
Yeah, I think that really worksfor him as well, because I
think this this book as a wholebook too, uh is is a book where
ang learns through challenge.
I think that's especiallypoignant in the episodes where
he loses Appa.
There's some emotionalchallenge through that.
You know Appa's lost days andthe Legai episode as well, when

(20:53):
he goes without and he actuallyrealizes some of the
consequences of this adventurethat he's doing.
He does take those momentswhere he falls back into having
those childlike emotions wherehe lashes out at those near him.
He can't fully control orcontain himself and he's
literally driven one track,minded to get up a back.
Despite the fact that you knowthe world may be relying on him

(21:15):
as the avatar, it becomes verypersonal to him in that moment
and you know he kind of.
He hits this major turningpoint and he shows how, how
grief can compromise your valueson occasion as well.
So I think those few episodeswas really good learning for
Aang as well.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, yeah, like definitely, I think he's
challenged the most in this bookin the way of like growing as a
person and whatnot.
So I definitely agree with youthere.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
And you know, when it comes to using that avatar
state and when he you know he'sgot this, he has to choose that
detachment from Katara.
He's taught that he has to havethat detachment.
That's really hard for him aswell.
Do you want to explain a littlebit about that Towards the end
of the book?

Speaker 1 (21:58):
he goes to see the guru.
I think it's Guru Pateek orsomething like that, I can't
remember off the top of my headexactly.
But yeah, he is learning tounblock his chakras so he can go
in and out of the avatar stateat will, which, as viewers,
you're just like, oh, so readyfor this.
It's sort of from the start ofbook one I'm sorry, from the

(22:20):
start of book two when Roku toldme about the avatar state and
now he's finally getting theteaching on how to control it.
You think, oh, this is going tobe awesome and you know they
deal with it like a lot of.
I really enjoy the stuff withthe guru because it actually
doesn't just like he speaksabout things that you could
potentially relate with everydaypeople, like people in the real
world, like the earth chakradeals with survival, deals with

(22:44):
survival, deals with survival,but it's blocked by fear.
Water chakra deals withpleasure, but it's blocked by
guilt.
And when he says he goesthrough all these chakras and he
goes, think about what are youguilty of.
And then like he has aflashback of him burning guitar
or him like leaving his people,you know to perish, and like
they go through all thesechakras.

(23:04):
And it's just so good, becauseyou're just like, oh man, first
of all it's hit me in the feels,but they're related to all the
things he's actually beenthrough and you forget that he's
been like they start goingthrough all these chakras and
you're just like does he feelashamed to do this?
All he's gone through all thisstuff and to see him sort of
liberate himself with thosechakras is so good.

(23:26):
But then obviously he comes tothe.
The last chakra deals withcosmic energy and it's blocked
by earthly attachments.
I think it is, and you have tolet go of everything that
attaches you to the earth.
And then he starts singing aguitar and he goes.
Then he starts pushing back,he's like why would I let go of
her?
I blah.
And then he has that momentwhere he's like okay, starts

(23:46):
focusing in and he has like thewhole ethereal thing with the
big version of himself.
He's walking towards and hesees Katara's having like she's
in trouble and then he leaves.
And then Guru's just like ifyou leave now, you're not going
to be able to go into it at allbecause you've locked the chakra
, like it's not blocked, it'snot blocked, it's blocked.

(24:06):
So and then he still decides toleave because he just can't let
go of Katara.
And it makes sense when youthink about it, because you know
they allude to the fact that,like, the love that he has for
these people and these peoplehave for him has just been sort
of reincarnated into Katara.
So you can understand why hedoesn't want to let that go.
But you know, at the end of theday he he does and we see what
happens.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
I think it's brilliant because it's obviously
very contextual to the Avatarworld and mythos.
But that's very much a lessonand a learning that lots of
people go through as well andit's been used in lots of
different media also.
But I think we are reminded inthis moment just how much Aang
has been through at such a youngage.
And it comes, you know, the theguru.
That episode is episode 19.
It comes at the very end, justbefore episode 20, which is the

(24:49):
crossroads of destiny, whereAang does sort of learn a very
valuable lesson.
So it's almost like that, likehow series used to do those
recap episodes before the finale, but I always used to hate them
because they're recapping a lotof the things that I already
know.
But in this way it was done in avery, very clever way, to the
point where I think that notonly did it reveal more about

(25:10):
Aang's character, but it gave ussome things that people
couldn't think about in terms ofhow they process grief or how
they process love or the valuethat they place on Judy over the
people that they care about.
So I think Aang is goingthrough some very human emotions
and that's what's amazing aboutthe Avatar is that he's just

(25:32):
like a normal kid that's got allof these amazing sort of
abilities and responsibilitythat's been thrust on him as
well.
Yeah, no, I completely agree.
And then we get to theCrossroads episode where Aang is
struck down by Azula'slightning and it's almost like
he learns that the path toenlightenment through this is

(25:54):
not linear, because he doessuffer a major setback, and we
said, the theme of Aang'sjourney through this is
challenge.
He definitely hits one when hemeets Azula.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So let's just, let's just getinto Azula a little bit here,
because we can't we can't speakabout Azula without first
talking about her relationshipwith Iroh Zuko, and then Mei and
Ty Lee.
All three characters Mei, tyLee and Azula great additions to
the show.
I think the best thing aboutMei and Tylee is that they're
very opposite of each other.

(26:25):
May's very gloomy and, you know, pessimistic, whereas Tylee's
very like you know, positive,centric, you know, looking at
the bright side of things,whimsical too.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
She's really whimsical.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, but you can also see that great as well,
because up until this pointwe've really only seen like
Sokka as the main non-bender.
But then we see Mei and Ty Lee,and Mei and Ty Lee are holding
their own against Katara Aangand they have no bending at all.
And obviously we learn in theseason as well that Ty Lee has
the ability to block.
She's a chi blocker, so she cando the pressure points and

(26:57):
block your points in your bodyand then you can't bend for a
certain period of time.
So that's pretty scary as wellas a bender not being able to
use the only thing that you canuse.
But then obviously we've gotAzula, which is like she's so
good.
When you first introduce her,she's just like the complete

(27:18):
opposite to Zuko.
When you first meet Zuko, he'straining with his uncle and he's
getting frustrated because he'slike I want to learn the next
set, I want to learn the nextthing.
But then you meet Azula andshe's like you see for the first
time she's lightning bendingand you're just like what?
The actual what's happeningright now?
She's like burning lightningand then you know the two twins
go, oh, only a hair out of placeand she's like, like, no.

(27:39):
And then like again, when shepulls in the ships, pulls in the
ship to dock at the bi-nationset up in the Earth Kingdom and
she goes the tides won't allowus to dock the ship, and she
goes.
I'm not familiar with the tides.
Did the tides come in the ship?
And he goes no, he's like ohwell, the tides think to us
about, like, smashing up againstthe rocky shore, or should you,

(28:09):
you like, talk to me, becauseI'm still mulling it over like
just absolutely bad.
Like just doesn't take anythingfrom anyone, you know.
And then you know she gets to,even the way she approaches this
with zuko in r.
She gets to them, she goesfather wants you home, he misses
you, he regrets your banishment, and it's not only until the
you know, the head guard goes,oh, taking the prisoners, the
prisoners home.
And then they realize it's alla trap.
And then you have that againstZuko as well.
At the end of the last book hegoes my sister was born lucky

(28:33):
and I was lucky to be born.
And you just sort of see theparallels in that episode.
Zuko's angry, he's trying toget her, and she doesn't even
fight back, she's literally justdodging.
And then she starts doinglightning.
But then Iroh comes andredirects it like the badass he
is.
But then that starts Iroh andZuko's journey in the season too
.
Like now they know like they'renot wanted by the Fire Nation,

(28:55):
they're not just banished,they're just like they actively
want to be taken back and put injail.
So now they cut their littleyou know pony in jail.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
So now they cut their little, you know, ponytails and
whatnot.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, which is like very symbolic yeah, very
symbolic, especially royalty inFire Nation, you know, cut them
and goes down the river and thenyou know we meet a very
different Iroh and a verydifferent Zuko.
Especially Zuko, he goes throughsuch a big character arc in
this season, touching on one ofmy favorite episodes of the
season.
Zuko alone, you know, he startsseeing that, you know, obviously

(29:26):
this is when he's taken back,he's, he's left Ira and he's
gone his own way and he startsto see that, you know, the fine
nation isn't, you know, thisgreat, marvelous nation.
They're sharing all their likeprosperity, prosperity with the
world, like people hate the finenation and you start saying
that, like you know, evenearthbend, like the earth
military, they prey on villagesthat don't make enough money and

(29:48):
they like overtax them andovertake their food and like
then you have, yeah, just youstart seeing that the world's
more nuanced and good and bad.
And you can start seeing thathe starts having conflicting
emotions in himself on, likewhat he wants to do, who he
wants to be, because you cantell from the very beginning of
the show that he's not just aone track character and he's not

(30:09):
like a Zula, he has aconscience and he definitely has
that conflict in his own bodyof like being good or bad and
that obviously reflects as wellwith his, with his scar as well.
You know, you've got his goodand bad sides.
so yeah it's very symbolic ofhis, of his journey this this
season I can't agree more.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
I think that the introduction of azula not only
gave us a 100 true antagonist tothis series, but I think it
also juxtaposes well with thecharacter of zuko and it shows
us exactly what fire lord wasexpecting when he wanted an heir
and what zulo zuko is, you know, trying to live up to and be,

(30:48):
and is always failing to do so.
Based on that conscience thatyou talked about, azula is.
He's so strategic in this, thisbook, to the point where she's
able to topple Ba Sing Se, whengenerations of Fire Lord or Fire
military people beforehand werenot able to do that.

(31:10):
And she just takes uttercommand of everybody that's
around her through hermannerisms with them, but also
her command of her bendingability.
She's just, she's so powerfulat this fear-based control that
she uses, and that is also verypoignant in the fact that Zuko
is a character who now seesthrough the cracks of the Fire

(31:31):
Nation, whereas Azula iscompletely indoctrinated by what
she believes that they can be.
She's very power hungry.
She throws Team Avatar offbalance in one of the early
episodes, the Chase, where sheactually has a confrontation
with Zuko and Iroh, and sheholds her own completely.
She is just a very amazingaddition to the series and I
think it's exactly what the bookneeded.

(31:53):
Yeah, she's a prodigy,definitely.
Yeah 100% a prodigy and yeah,she's brilliant.
She needed.
Yeah, she's a prodigy,definitely yeah, 100% a prodigy.
She's brilliant, she's ruthless, she's a perfectionist in her
way as well, and she's alsoemotionally detached, which is
the biggest differing point fromher and Zuko Hard to believe
they were raised in the samehouse.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, definitely you can tell one was raised by
father and one was raised by themother in a sense, even though
I know Zuko's mom obviously hada hand in raising her as well.
But, um, yeah, just twodifferent outlooks and in in in
how they perceive the world andthe people in it, I guess yeah,
I think with zuko, if we diveinto him a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
He's obviously angry at the start of this season as
well.
He fully detracts himself fromthe fire nation, but he's always
got that undertone of seekinghis father's approval.
That doesn't go away, and youknow he goes through the
teachings with Uncle Iroh.
They get extremely close.
Zuko alone, by the way, is thehighest rated episode of this

(32:50):
book according to IMDb andRotten Tomatoes.
It is the one where he realizesthat he may go ahead and do the
right thing.
He may go and help the peoplethat the Fire Nation has
destroyed.
And it plants that seed that wesee flower in the very end
episode, because even though hedid all the right things,
afterwards he is still shunnedby the people that he helped

(33:12):
because of his history, becauseof his lineage, because of who
he is, and that leaves him likefeeling devastated but also sort
of wondering what the point ofit is.
I guess you could say like hegoes through a lot of this sort
of turmoil and then, towards thevery end, you can see him offer
that betrayal to join azula inher quest once more.
Because I think without thatepisode, without that little

(33:37):
seed that showed how thecommunity reacted to Zuko,
despite the fact that he maychoose to do the right thing.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Without that, I think this turn at the end may not
have been as well received, oras the payoff wouldn't be as
good yeah exactly, I completelyagree and I think, even like you
said at the start, when he waslearning with Iroh and Iroh he
you said at the start when hewas learning with Aria and Aria
he goes I want to learn how todo lightning.
And he keeps blowing up in hisface and he goes why is it
blowing up in my face?
Like everything always does.

(34:06):
And then he goes, aria goes,he's like you've got to let go
of your shame.
And he's like I'm not ashamed,blah, blah, blah.
You know, blah, blah, blah andhe goes.
I'm as prideful as ever.
And then, like Aro goes PrinceZuko, pride is not the opposite
of shame, it's, but it's sourcelike just a quote from Aro there
.
And then he goes and he teachesZuko about the four nations and

(34:28):
that how taking knowledge fromfour different places as opposed
just to taking it from one canhelp you be a better, not just a
better bender, but a betterperson.
And then obviously I alreadyteach this to Zuko how to
redirect lightning.
But you know, zuko's still nothappy.
He's like if you won't give melightning, then I'll go out and
find some myself.
And then obviously he has thatscene where it's like raining

(34:53):
and it's thunderstorming and hestarts crying.
You can just see he's got somuch like built up like terminal
turmoil still inside of him.
He just doesn't know what to do.
And then it really comes outahead too.
And the episode I think it'slike uh Lao guy when he finds
the avatar's bison and this isprobably one of my favorite like
parts of the season.

(35:14):
And then Iroh goes.
He finds him.
He's like ooh, I wonder whothis could be.
And he's like how'd you find me, uncle?
And it's just like now that youfind the advertised vice, what
are you going to do with it?
And he goes I gotta, you know,get it out of here.
And then he starts Iroh veryrare Iroh moment where he
screams like, starts.
And then what?
This is the same thing thathappened at North Pole.

(35:35):
If you had him, and then youhad nowhere to go, I would have
figured something out.
It's like no, if you didn't, ifhis friends didn't grab you,
you would have frozen to death,you would have died.
And he goes stop it, uncle,stop it, little blind.
It's like I'm begging you,please look within yourself,
start asking yourself the realquestions.
This is a destiny that someoneelse has put out for you, not

(35:55):
the one that you want.
And then that really, he getsangry, slams his swords down.
It's just such a good passagethat's a good passage.
You can just see the way Tophchallenges Aang Iroh challenges
Zuko in this season.
It's just so good.
It's literally so good.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, and I think that in this book Toph and
Aang's relationship get closerbecause they're able to find a
middle ground, Whereas Iroh andZuko come to a head, to the
point where by the end of thisepisode they see each other so
completely differently, whereone goes one way and the other
goes a completely differentdirection, Like in the episode
18, the Earth King.
When Zuko starts to experiencethat sort of fever dream and he

(36:35):
has that sort of sickness, hedoes something good because he
eventually does sort of returnup in his own way and it's
almost like it's that symbolicbattle between the old Zuko and
the new sort of better self thathe's becoming.
That sickness is like ametaphor for the turmoil that's
going on within him.

(36:56):
But that trauma just still sitswithin him where he's seeking
that approval and in the end heends up betraying Iroh and he
sort of stands next to Azula inthat victory pose at the end and
you can see the look on herface is complete and utter pride
.
But if you look at Zuko you cantell he feels like he's made
like a catastrophic emotionalmistake.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I think he's questioning everything that he
made the choice.
But then as soon as he's donethat, he's like well, have I
done, have I made the rightchoice?
And you know it's differentbecause he's had Arya on his
side always, no matter what Zukosaid to him or the way he's
talked, spoken to him, no matterlike.
Zuko has spoken to Arya reallybad in the previous episodes,
like in book one and book two,and Iroh's always just stuck

(37:37):
with him.
But then, you know, zuko looksat him and Iroh sort of just
like puts his head down andcloses his eyes.
And then Zuko's like, you know,if Iroh's sort of his moral
compass in a way, because Irohdoesn't want to borrow him, then
Zuko's like have I made theright decision now?

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Like you know, I've made this decision, but you can
tell that he's just really notsure if he's done the right
thing.
Yeah, it's sort of like he'sbeen chasing this approval all
of this time and it feels likethat is the attainable thing
that he absolutely wants andhe's working so hard to get it
and he's taking advantage of thefact that he's got Iroh there
by his side through thick andthin.
It's a classic case of when youfinally get what you want, you

(38:18):
look around and you realize it'snot as great as what you
thought it was, especially whenhe looks around and to his side
Iroh is no longer there.
So he gets that value and herealizes that he, in this moment
, had chosen fear of abandonmentand legacy over the love and
growth that he had with hisuncle, Iroh.
And that's why I loved his arcwhere he was running the tea
shop with Iroh.
I thought him in Ba Sing Serunning that tea shop.

(38:40):
That was perfect, Zuko.
That was him beginning to moveon through a healing sort of
journey.
You could see him beginning towork through some things.
He actually took some time forhimself.
In one of my favorite episodes,the Tales of Ba Sing Se, you
can see him actually go on adate.
What a good episode.

(39:01):
Oh man, that hits you in thefeels, that one can we, can we
just we really, after youmentioned that we're gonna stop
and talk about it like, yeah, Ithink so.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
I think it's so good.
It's literally like you thinkthe episode starts and you go.
Tales of passing say thissounds this is a throwaway, yeah
it sounds like this coulddefinitely be a throwaway
episode, and then, oh, like all,all the stories are good in
their own right, but obviouslythe iroh story is everyone's a

(39:24):
gangster, until iroh startssinging and then everyone's
crying.
So I 100.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Agree, and you know the.
The most special part aboutthis is obviously this is
dedicated to, to mako, who wasthe, the voice of uncle aro as
well.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
At the end, that's the, that's the little end tag
credit yeah, in honor of uh mako, I believe it is yeah, yeah
exactly it's.
It's crazy too because, like,obviously that was his final um,
um, you know appearances as arothe ba, but then obviously it's
continued by greg baldwin inthe next season.
Um, and and obviously I'm notgoing to get into book three

(39:59):
because this is about book two,but I think Greg does such an
amazing job taking it over fromMarco.
For me it's sort of hard to,especially when I was a kid.
I had no idea that the VAchanged because he does such a
good honor to that VA.
Obviously he's not the same,but pretty close to it.

(40:19):
But yeah, no, it was such atouching episode and just you
know he goes.
I wish I could have helped youthe way I've helped everyone
else.
And he's just like littlesoldier boy leaves from the vine
.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, man, I'm getting goosebumps now and I
like how he had sung thatpreviously in his little segment
of the Tales of Ba Sing Se.
He'd sung that previously whenhe was helping somebody out,
just sort of casually, but youcan see how emotional that song
really does hit him and howspecial it is when he does that
ceremony for his son and you'dheard previously before that you
know he'd lost a son in thebattle but he really holds so

(40:50):
much like guilt about that andit's it he's honoring him in
such a special way.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And you can see, especially after this episode,
you can see why he sort of like,attaches to Zuko because it's
like the son that he lost.
You know, this is like a sonthat he can like and especially
the last three, four years he'sbeen traveling around
exclusively with Zuko and youdon't travel around with someone
for three, four years and notget that attachment.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
You know Exactly and I think that's why, simply five
episodes later, when he iseventually betrayed by Zuko, it
hits him so hard in this sort ofmoment as well.
But you know, this episode alsohighlights elements of the
other characters as well that wekind of don't really get to see
.
Like we saw that Toph andKatara were having trouble sort
of getting along because theywere the two girls in the Avatar

(41:37):
group group.
They were two completelydifferent girls and they never
really sort of got along.
But in this episode the talesof passing say they enjoy a
girl's day out together andagain they learn to embrace
their differences and actuallycome together and and blossom a
friendship, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
And just on that too, this is a little tidbit that I
don't know if you, if you,picked up on, but I really like
this episode too and that littlesegment of the episode, because
obviously Toph goes to, kataragoes Toph, you're actually
really pretty.
And then Toph goes.
I've never really cared aboutwhat anyone thinks about me, but
she obviously still gets upsetwhen people are mean to her,

(42:15):
because she's still a littlegirl, you know what I mean,
doesn't matter how good she isat earthbending.
Then Katara goes like you know,you're really, you know you're
really pretty.
And she goes like really, andshe goes yeah, you really are.
And the thing I like about thatis that Toph can tell she's
lying.
So obviously she knows she'snot, she is telling the truth,
because you know how Toph cantell people who's lying by their
heartbeat to the thing.

(42:35):
So it's really even better whenKatara says that and she can
tell that she's telling thetruth.
So that's just really nice.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, I love how they built that connection too,
because I think Toph had been inthe series for about 10
episodes previous to that and wehad seen her being very cold
towards Aang and she's kind oflike the shake-up that the Aang
crew needed in terms of addingan extra character.
I think they couldn't have donebetter than with Toph and it
helped them grow to the pointwhere it brought out something

(43:05):
new in each of the originalthree, in Katara, Sokka and also
Aang and, yeah, the Tales of BaSing Se.
It's just, it takes a moment tolook at each character and it
tells us every character we'relooking at here has a story and
every person carries burdensthat we might not know about,
and that's a lesson you can takein life as well.

(43:26):
You don't know why people areacting the way that they're
acting.
We say in the schoolyard allthe time people come to school
with a backpack full of thingsthat you don't know, and we're
not talking about a backpackwith their lunchbox.
We're talking about we don'tknow what happened to them this
morning.
We don't know why they'reacting angry when they're
usually acting quite happy.
You know, you really have totake that moment to get to know

(43:46):
them and this episode allowed usto do that with a lot of the
characters.
Yeah, it showed us thatconnection sort of matters most.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
I actually can't get enough ofthese little character moments
that we have.
Obviously, we'll chat a littlebit before the episode started,
but I think book two, while it'snot my most favorite book out
of the three, I still think bookthree is my favorite, just for
other reasons we'll get into inthe next episode.
I think book two definitely isthe best in terms of
storytelling and pacing.
I think that two definitely isthe best in terms of

(44:18):
storytelling and pacing.
I think that you know, in bookone you had the obligation of
introducing all these characters, introducing the world, the law
, you know what you can andcan't do, the limits, the
boundaries, all that type ofstuff.
So it sort of suffers a littlebit from that Not suffers, but
you know the story has to sortof dictate it by that.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah has a job to do.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, in book three it's got the job of wrapping up
the series, tying up all theloose ends and obviously
finishing up all those characterarcs, whereas book two just has
the ability to world build alittle bit more, going to have
these little character momentsand have all these different
stories.
You have the drill episode, youhave the library, you have the

(44:59):
serpent's past.
You have, you know, when hegoes to the guru.
You know you have all theselike episodes in this book that
are just free to do what theywant because they've already
established all these, the swamp, even like all these episodes,
you know they're just so goodbecause they're not burdened by
having to do anything.

(45:19):
The only thing I have to do isget from point a to point b
magnesium, earthbending, andthat's sort of all we.
That's all we're expecting outof this book and that's.
But we get a whole lot more um,which I think is, I think,
benefits a lot.
So I think, while not myfavorite book personally, I can
definitely see why it would be alot of people's favorites and
it definitely, I think, bestpacing.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, I think so.
I haven't seen book three,obviously, but this is
definitely mine.
I do like book one and can seewhy it's so highly rated, but I
think I'm a really big characterguy.
It's no secret on the FandomPortals podcast, if there is a
good character journeythroughout a movie, I'll rate it
very highly.
To the point where, if thecharacter arc serves as story,
I'm happy with that as opposedto like a plot occurring, just a

(46:03):
character growth, and throughthis we see character growth
from start to finish.
No character begins the exactway that they finish at the end
of this book, which is what Ilove about it most.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah Well, another episode that I like as well is
the return to Omashu episode,because what I really appreciate
about this too, that Iappreciate about book two and
just the series in general, isthat up until this point as well
, we've been in book one, andpretty much every place we go to
it's either an Earth Kingdom, awater tribe, or it's like a
little village that's been likeoccupied by this fine nation.

(46:34):
So we go to Omashu.
It's obviously an Earth Kingdom.
You meet Bumi, blah, blah, blahblah.
They go back to Omashu to learnfrom Bumi Earthbending.
That's what he wants to go to,that's his first like point
contact.
But when they get there theyrealize that it's been invaded,
it's been taken over by the FireNation, which I which I think
is another positive for the show, because it makes us realize oh

(46:57):
wait, you know, there actuallyis a war going on.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah this thing's happening off camera.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Obviously, we're following our main protagonist,
but this one really hits home.
It's like, well, while they'vebeen going to the North Pole,
the Financially has actuallybeen doing shit.
They've actually been going toplaces.
They're still invading placesand I think seeing Omashu being
occupied by the Fire Nationreally hits home.
It's just like well, justbecause, like you know, we're
thinking, yeah, they're going togo to Omashu, it's going to be
the same, but then it's likeit's actually now occupied and

(47:24):
it's like it's really like alived in world and things are
happening.
So, you know, there's a warhappening, people are dying,
people are really illustratesthat, which is another great
thing towards the season and theshow.
And then also Avatar Day.
I think it's a severelyunderrated episode.
You know, go to this town.
They're celebrating the Avataror what we think they're

(47:46):
celebrating.
It's like, oh yeah, you knowthey got Aang, they got Rotary
and they got Kyoshi.
You know statues that they'remarching around and then they
start burning them and it's likewhat the hell?
And then you find out moreabout what happened with what's
the name?
Commander Chin, I think it was.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
I can't remember who.
You've hit names on the head sofar.
Let me look.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Killing Chin.
Is it Chin yeah Tong?
Because it goes into K Kyoshikilling their old um commander
Chin, back in the you know three, four hundred years ago.
And then obviously you haveSokka doing his detective work,
which is pretty funny.
And then you have that momentwhere Kyoshi actually takes over
Aang and he goes, yeah, look, Idid, I pretty much, yeah, I did

(48:31):
kill Chin, like obviously hefell to his death, but like she
doesn't see it any other way,she would have killed him anyway
.
So yeah, he pretty much admitsto it.
And then you know they go whathappened, and he's like, oh, you
can't confess to that killingChin.
And he's like, oh, and then theFire Nation comes and then he
gets community service and Ijust think it's a cool episode

(48:53):
forward.
You get to learn a little bitmore about a past life in the
yeah in, in kiyoshi, and howkiyoshi island was made, which
is a you know a place we wentthrough in the first season.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
So that's a cool episode I like oh yeah, and I
think it also serves as givingus a little bit of history in
terms of the avatar's pastancestors, but also the impact
that that has on variousdifferent cultures around this
world, because, you know, noteverybody loves the avatar.
Some people have been wrongedby the avatar and it goes to
show the impact that it has onthe current avatar as to what
your past live iterations haddone.

(49:22):
So it it also deepens thestakes for Aang in terms of what
his actions are going to do inthis season and how he is going
to impact the next avatar thatcomes after him or the world.
So it just goes to show, youknow, things that happen in
history aren't forgotten and thethings that he's doing as part

(49:44):
of his role as the Avatar reallydo matter.
So I think that's what it didfor me.
It really sort of expanded thatmythos of what the Avatar was
to other people and also how thepast life, even though it
wasn't his responsibility.
He has no responsibility andhas to take no accountability
for it, because it wasn't himthat did it, but due to his role
and responsibility as theavatar, he once again was taking
on the responsibility ofsomebody else and having to

(50:04):
answer for that.
So, and that's what happens asa result of the avatar, he's
doing lots of these things thisseason that he doesn't really
want to do, but he has thatresponsibility due to his title.
So I think it's it's a nuancedepisode as well.
But I just think it's so smarthow they laid the episodes out,
because it gave us time in thefirst five or so episodes
between the Avatar state and theAvatar day to really explore

(50:26):
some of the nuanced part of thecharacters.
Like even in the cave of twolovers we get to really deepen
in Aang and Katara'srelationship with one another
and it really sort of steps upinto that episode where you do
realize there is this unspokenthing, as Star-Lord and Gamora
would say, that they're sort ofnavigating through as as young
people.

(50:46):
But then there was also anepisode I wanted to look at.
Oh, I wanted to talk as wellabout the political undertones
that strike through this season,especially in the later
episodes when they're actuallyin Ba Sing Se and the Earth
Kingdom is really sort of theyhave a political agenda and it's
still propaganda, like there'sa lot of propaganda like there's

(51:10):
, everything on the outsideworld is fine, there's no war,
blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
No one knows of the war.
It's very.
You come to the city, you think, oh, they're gonna be so well
prepared because it hasn't likefallen in a hundred years.
So you're like, oh, these guysreally know what they're doing,
but really it's just a big asswall that the fire nation can't
manage due to the time period.
They're like you know, theyhave a drill in that episode.
That's like the first time I'veactually had any technology to

(51:36):
get.
Like, you know, you put fire upagainst a massive, thick brick
wall.
Nothing's going to happen to it.
So like, yeah, up until thispoint, you think, oh, you think,
oh, the blasting state's goingto be really well equipped.
But it really is just a reallybig wall and they haven't had to
do much else.
Well, that's what it feels liketo me.
They're all hiding behind theirwalls.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Yeah, and then you know Long Feng and Dai Li.
They're the sort of heads ofthis and they're almost not so
much ignorant, but they'repushing the ignorance throughout
.
So there is no unrest throughthe city.
It's like burying your head inthe sand and, like the Avatar
team, go to try and enlightenthem in this way, and it comes
to a head when, when they findjet in basing say and he's a

(52:18):
return character from an episodein book one, and you know they
end up discovering this, thissort of secret, that's flooding
throughout the city.
Brainwashed, yeah, brainwashed.
And instead of having basingsay as being the biggest ally
and probably defender to thefire nation, they're in a really
vulnerable spot.
And I think that you know thisis all the things that are going

(52:39):
on politically in terms of alike this is a kid's show, so to
speak, in quote marks, like Ithink it's got some really big
themes to fill, and it waspretty brave at the time as well
to put that sort of thing in toshow that you know, people that
are in charge aren't alwaysright for one, but for two.
They they're not always smart.
So I think that that was reallyimportant.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Sometimes they're being used too Exactly Like the
king.
He's like just a puppet really.
And then obviously you haveanother thing I like about it is
that you see the inner ring andouter rings of bars.
You see the outer ring reallyfor poverty, a lot like this,
yeah there's a car system.
Yeah, and that's a pretty bigtheme to tackle for a
quote-unquote kids show.

(53:20):
So I think that's reallyinteresting too how they go
through, and you can sort of seewhen they're on the outer ring
and then a bit ghetto-y, andthen they go through the tunnel,
they go to the second innerring and then it's much more
pristine, People have nicerclothes, the streets aren't as
dirty, yeah and ignorant to thestruggles of what's happening on
the outer rings too.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
They don't really care.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, so much learning that's gone through.
We usually in the PhantomPortals podcast, we usually do a
most valuable takeaway and wetalk about the one or two things
that you learned from the media.
But I think through this we'vetalked so much about the lessons
that all of these episodesdeliver and it's just so action
packed and I think that is whythis series has lasted through,

(54:01):
uh, the years and has continuedon to generate lots and lots of
spinoffs, because it's it'sgenerational yeah, yeah, and I I
agree, um, yeah, like, like yousaid, the lessons you learn and
also just like the 2d animationreally learned itself to like
holding up across, you know, thetest of time.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Um, and then you know you've got episodes like the
library when you can expect tobook one, how zhao found
stumbled across the library, butthen you find out that the team
avatar have also like stumbledacross the same library and
that's like really cool as well.
You got like up his last days,which is like sad and also a bit
heartwarming, but mainly sad.

(54:39):
You know, you've got that whole.
You got so many like littlesubplots going on that you sort
of like, when I, when I get backand I think about this book, I
forget how much, how many layersthere are to it.
But yeah, it's just like I canliterally we can sit here and we
could probably talk 30 minutesabout each individual episode
and what they bring and how goodit is, because that's how good
the season is.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah, I think that's totally on point.
In terms of we know that booktwo is now coming to the Netflix
show.
We'll pivot a bit to that.
Given how nuanced this show isand how many layers there are,
how do you think they're goingto go?
Because I have not yet seen thelive action Avatar, the Last
Airbender.
Does that Netflix adaptation ofbook one do it justice?

(55:20):
Are you hopeful for book two?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
I don't know, I have to sort of separate myself from
being an Avatar fan when I gointo the live action show,
because obviously, you know,with a live action show it's a
really hard balance betweentrying to tell something a
little bit new, because I don'twant to do exactly beat for beat
as a show, because then peopleare going to be like, well, it's
just the same thing, you know.
But then yeah, but thenobviously you don't want to

(55:45):
change too much or it doesn'teven feel like it's the
reminiscent of the show thatit's inspired by.
I think they.
I personally think there aresome things I liked and there's
some things I didn't like.
I didn't like how they changedlike I just wish they would.
I don't know, I can't.
I always struggle to get mythoughts, um, out about my

(56:07):
opinions, out about the show,because I think there are some
things I really did like, butthere's some things I just I I
think if it didn't have theavatar name to it, I don't think
it would have been as wellreceived as it has been.
I think it got a lot ofeyeballs to it because there's a
lot of fans of the originalshow.
But I think, you know, if theydon't label Avatar and they
label it something else.
They could probably change afew more things and you could

(56:29):
probably market it as a wholedifferent show.
You know what I mean?
I I'm not a yeah, I have to gointo it as not an Avatar fan,
because if I try and go into itas an Avatar fan, I just this
thing is just, I don't like thatyou pick out the faults, I
guess.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
But it's really hard, you know, because this is so
beloved by a lot of people andit's like it's the perfect show
really.
There are some episodes likethe lowest rated episode that I
can see from this book on IMDbis 7.3 and that is still like
7.3 out of 10 and that is still.

(57:02):
That is the Avatar Day episodethat we were talking about.
Oh, really yeah lowest rated,but a lot of them are averaging
in the nines.
So it's a very hard show toadapt, not only because of the
nuance and the layers, but alsobecause it was done so well the
first time.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
It's hard to hit lightning in a bottle twice,
really yeah, yeah I don't, Idon't, um, I don't envy anyone
who has to try and recreate ordo a live action version of a
show that is just well, so well,beloved by so many people.
I think, no matter what you do,you're gonna piss off some
people.
Yeah, I try to go into it withan open mind, but you know, I

(57:39):
usually try and separate the twobecause I think that,
especially after the originalcreators left the project, I'm
just like, well, you know, ifit's, if it's not good enough at
to their vision and they wantto leave the show and they have
their own avatar studios now,then it makes me think that you
know, what did they like?
Obviously, they must havechanged stuff that they weren't,
but it's going to be likenon-negotiable.
So, yeah, I sort of, yeah, I'monly going to go into it with an

(58:03):
open mind, but I just I feellike if I don't have any
expectations, I can't bedisappointed.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
So that's what good way to look into it, and you
know, when we do book three onthe podcast, we might be able to
have a chat about how yourreception of book two was on the
live action front as well.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
So yeah, very looking forward to the book three.
It's going to be a good chatthat one?

Speaker 2 (58:22):
yeah, I think so it'll be good.
We are just about to finish,but before we do, we had some
listeners, threads, communitysend in some questions for us
because they knew we were goingto do an episode on avatar book
2.
So we'll read some of thosequestions out and answer them
for you now.
If you do want to be a part ofthe podcast in terms of adding
your question or your quote, orif you want to add your thoughts

(58:44):
on some of the media that we'redoing, we usually always show
you our programming and tell youwhat's coming up next.
So if you want to give us youropinion, then you can do so on
our threads, which is at FandomPortals.
We're also on Instagram atFandom Portals, or you can email
us fandomportals at gmailcom.
This question here comes fromat Cactus Sipper, and this
person says that if you had toshow one episode of book two to

(59:08):
somebody who just wants toexperience the show for the
first time, which episode wouldthat be?

Speaker 1 (59:15):
and why?
Ooh, it's a very good question.
It's tough, especially frombeing in book two.
It's like such a middle pointof the series.
Ooh, I think it would eitherhave to be.
I think this is going to be avery boring answer, but I feel
like the first episode does areally good job of introducing
us to a little bit more of theworld again.
Yeah, so that's the Avatarstate.

(59:36):
Yeah, but if I had to pickanother episode to introduce
people to it, I would.
This is a really tough one.
I'd probably say I'm going togo a bit of a different answer,
but I'm going to say the Blindbandit because I think the
action points in that, with allthe earthbending and stuff, I
think it's a really cool displayof what the animation is

(59:58):
capable of and how fun it can bethe fire sequences.
So I'm going to say either theAvatar state or the blind bandit
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
I love that answer because the blind bandit we
didn't really talk about it, butthat episode features Mick
Foley as the boulder, who's adirect ripoff of Dwayne Johnson
the Rock, and it's just so funto see, just like a wrestling
match in the world of Avatar.
It shows that they've alsocommodified bending for one,
like they're making money off ofthis thing.
And it is an awesomeintroduction to the character of

(01:00:26):
Toph because it gives us thefact that she's this.
She's got this dual identitywhere she is definitely living
in the richer part of town andshe's got that expectation upon
her.
But she also has these dreamsand desires of her own to bend
rock, to be the best, to havesome sort of accolade, and I
think it also is good.
We didn't really touch on thiseither, but it's good because
this is a character that has aphysical impairment, she's

(01:00:50):
vision impaired and she's justas powerful as anybody in this
world.
So I think it's good advocatingfor that too, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
And, like you know, I wanted to say, you know, zuko
alone or Tales of Buzzing, say,for a first episode.
But I think those episodesreally lend themselves to you
knowing the characters already.
So introducing them someone tothese episodes, I feel like they
just wouldn't hit as hard.
So that's why I'm going to goover something a little bit more
sort of general, so that way itjust gives people an idea of,
like, how fun the world can be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Yeah, I think that's actually perfect.
I don't think there's a betteranswer that we can come up with.
If you haven't seen any of theAvatar and you're looking and
dipping your toe in, go andwatch the Blind Bandit from so.
That's a good one, alright.
Next person is Lotus Rules.
At Lotus Rules 89, and theysent in a question that says do
you think Toph was Avatar's orAvatar Aang's best teacher that

(01:01:43):
he ever?

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
had good question definitely would say she is the
most different teacher to anyonehe's ever had.
I definitely think I don't.
I don't know if she's the bestteacher.
I feel like he anyone he's everhad.
I definitely think I don't.
I don't know if she's the bestteacher.
I feel like he has got a lot ofhis wisdom and and bending
prowess from a bunch ofdifferent teachers, all you know
, excelling in their own sort ofway.
But yeah, I think I could.

(01:02:06):
You can make an argument thatshe's probably one of the best
teachers he's ever had, but Iwould say that I get another
boring answer he's ever had.
But I would say that again,another boring answer.
But I would probably say thatyou can see throughout the whole
series that he gets so manydifferent life lessons and
abilities from his other mastersthat they all add to who he is
as a person.
I wouldn't be able to say oneperson, one teacher that was the

(01:02:30):
best.
But as far as actual bendingability goes, I'd say that toff
is the best.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Yeah yeah, because he's had um monk, gyatso, who
was his airbending teacher, andthen katara is pretty much his
waterbending master.
Toff is the earthbending masterthat he's had, but he's also
had some spiritual andphilosophical mentors in the
term, like his past lives,avatar roku being one, and then
the Guru as well.
So I think they all, he meetsthem all in the exact point

(01:02:57):
where he requires them most.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
So even Iroh, when he's going and barring down to
the catacombs underneath thepalace to rescue Katara and Zuko
and you know he goes apparentlyreally good advice and Iroh
gives him just some words ofwisdom and like even that, you
know, just a great teachingmoment as well for him.
So, yeah, I definitely think toanswer the question as far as

(01:03:20):
raw bending ability goes, Ithink Toph, yeah, probably is
the best, but yeah, I think inthe context of the whole show
he's got everyone he sort ofcomes across gives him so much
different variety in differentways.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, I think that's a really good answer because I
feel like Toph had the hardestjob.
As we spoke about before,earthbending's opposite to
airbending, and Aang was veryresistant at the start as well.
Yeah, I think that he's hadlots of good teachers.
Toph had the hardest job.
That's my opinion on it anyway.
Yeah, I can agree with that100%.
Okay, last question, this onecomes from juicehead67.

(01:03:58):
Juicehead says was ang's choiceto abandon his spiritual
training for katara in the guruepisode?
Was it necessary for him toassert his humanity?
So I guess that question iskind of asking.
It sort of highlights hisinternal conflict, as we sort of
talked about before, his dutyversus personal connection.
And there is an argument to saythat the thing that makes Aang

(01:04:21):
strong is his connection tothose people that he loves.
There's more powerful things inthe world than bending and he's
able to find strength throughothers and the love of others or
the love that he has for others.
But we've seen lots of peoplewho aren't benders go up against
elemental benders and holdtheir own.

(01:04:44):
So I think there's lots ofdifferent ways to exemplify
strength.
It's like that sort of Jediconundrum, isn't it?
Connections across mentalclarity Is it worth it?
Is it something that Aangshould have done.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a really interesting
question.
I feel like you pretty muchnailed it on the head there,
Aaron, but I definitely thinkyou know, as Ari says as well,
he thinks he's very wise forpicking love and connection over
.
You know cosmic energy and theAvatar state, but yeah, I think

(01:05:17):
I don't really have much more toadd to that.
I think you nailed it on thehead there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
We do have a question here about Iroh, and if he sort
of, if Iroh stayed and foughtAzula and Zuko, how do you think
it would have gone down?

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I think that I personally think if Iroh because
Iroh's always been the type ofcharacter who won't fight unless
it's for a purpose or toself-defense or to make a point
type thing he's never just forthe satisfaction of fighting
that's not who Iroh is, at leastnot since we've known him in
the series.

(01:05:50):
Obviously we don't know whathe's done previously, before the
series started, when he wasstill involved with the Fire
Nation, but like you know, yousee, I think he's going to have
some big reservations aboutfighting Azula and Zuko in the
catacombs at that point, becauseZuko's just betrayed him.
But he also still sees him ashis son, you know, his surrogate
son.
So, like, I think it's reallyhard for me to imagine Ari going

(01:06:14):
to the catacombs instead ofAang and Katara and fighting
Azula and Zuko.
I just don't think he would.
I just don't think he would um,and he even like, obviously he
does fight them when Aang getsstruck by lightning, um, and he
jumps down and goes go, I'llhold him off for as long as I
can.
And then he like, as soon asKatara and Aang escape up the
waterfall, he literally juststops fighting and lets himself

(01:06:36):
get captured.
So I don't think Iroh wouldactually fight Azula and Zuko.
I just don't think that's wherehis character's at at that
point in the story.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, I think he stood the line.
He was trying to teach Zuko tostand that line and he obviously
felt like he failed at that.
So he stood that line physically, but I feel like he also felt a
lot of I don't want to sayshame shame is not the right
word but like a sense of failure, because he saw what Zuko had
done and he thought that Zukohad come a lot further than that

(01:07:08):
.
So I think not only would henot fight in that instance to
defeat Azula and Zuko, like he'snot the kind to lay a beat down
to teach you the lesson that hewants to teach, because I think
he's wise enough to know thatthe best lessons are learned
when you get to the conclusionyourself, instead of having it
forced in front of you and stop,because he felt like he had

(01:07:31):
also failed.
So not only had he done theright thing and let the Avatar
go, but he also felt that senseof failure in what he was trying
to.
His goal was, which was toguide and lead Zuko to do the
right thing.
So I think that's anotherreason why he probably wouldn't
have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Yeah, he's sad, Sad that Zuko picked the wrong
choice.
I guess and I know we're goingto talk about this, otherwise
people are going to get angry atus but Toph being a metalbender
at the end of the series, ohyeah, Goated moment like so good
, how cool she's a metalbender.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Yeah, and it opens up that, like we were talking
about before, the additionalsort of subset of bending to
each of the four elements andyou know, we saw Azula with
lightning, but Toph being theone to actually bend that metal
in a moment of like absolutedesperation as well.
For me it opens up the door,lore-wise, to see, like just how
powerful she can get and justhow much more she can do.

(01:08:33):
So, yeah, I think it's a goodlittle addition that we saw.
It's like a little tease, alittle Easter egg to what's
coming and what's happening nextExactly.
Yeah, 100%, yeah, all right,speaking of what's happening
next, that's all we have herefor Book 2.
With my good buddy, luke, weare going to do an episode on
Book 3 and that'll happen whenyours truly has finished
watching those.
I want to thank you so much,luke.

(01:08:54):
You are a wealth of knowledgewhen it comes to Avatar.
It's always great to talk toyou about this kind of stuff.
So thank you so much forjoining us on the pod.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
No, thank you so much .
I also like that when you speakabout some of the episodes, you
know you have your own takenever thought of before too, so
it's nice to hear your takes onit, and it gives me another
layer on top of a show that Ireally love.
So thank you yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I appreciate that as well, and I thank you for your
deep knowledge too, because youalso see things in a very
interesting way and depth wisetowards the characters that I
really never thought of on afirst viewing.
So I think it's good that we'vegot you, who's a very much sort
of seasoned viewer of Avatar,and me, who's a fresh viewer.
It's a good sort of dynamic forany people that are in between.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Yeah, I think it bounces off each other pretty
well, like you know the themesand the ideas, so you know it's
really good to hear yourperspective as a sort of
newcomer to the series.
Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
And thank you everybody for listening to the
Fandom Portals podcast.
Remember, guys, if you wantedto be a part of the show, you
can do so by joining us on oursocials, which is at Fandom
Portals, on Instagram and onthreads.
You can email us any questionsthat you have at FandomPortals
at gmailcom.
If you would like to sign up toour newsletter, you can do that
.
We'll send you one email amonth.

(01:10:08):
We're not annoying, we don'tsend you lots of spam.
We'll only send you one a monthand that will give you all of
the updates on the FandomPortals podcast, everything that
the hosts are doing andeverything that's coming up in
the month ahead.
It will also automatically giveyou an entry into any giveaways
that we ever do.
So if you wanted to do that,you can find us at
wwwfandomportalspodcastcomwwwfandomportalspodcastcom.

(01:10:28):
And that is all from me.
Love the fandoms, love Avatar.
Go and watch the Blind Bandit.
Thanks again, luke.
We'll see you next time, thanksfor having me All right, see
you guys.

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Avatar the Last Airbender Book 2 – Aang's Growth, Iroh's Grief & Earth-Shattering Character Arcs and Avatar News with Luke Newton

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Avatar the Last Airbender Book 2 – Aang's Growth, Iroh's Grief & Earth-Shattering Character Arcs and Avatar News with Luke Newton