New Mutants (2020) - Are Horror and Superheroes a Perfect Match? Transformation through Connection with the New Mutants - The Fandom Portals Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mr Sinister was actually going to be in the
movie.
Do you know who he's going toportray?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I do and I actually think it's awesome.
It is awesome, I think it wouldbe such a good casting.
Welcome to the Fandom Portalspodcast, the podcast that

(00:26):
explores how fandoms can help uslearn and grow.
This week, we looked at the NewMutants from 2020, and I'm
joined as always by Mr AdamBrasher, or, as we like to call
him, brash.
How are you going Brash?
Too bad yourself?
Oh, mate, I'm going pretty good, not too bad at all.
The New Mutants 2020,.
It was made well.
It was released.

(00:46):
That's another story, but wepicked this one as part of our
Marvel month.
It's the second one so far ofour Marvel month.
We have already done an episodeon the Fantastic Four and this
is the second installment forour Marvel month of April.
It's the 13th Fox movie in theX-Men universe and it was the
last one to be released by Fox.
It's a psychological, horrorand superhero movie.

(01:06):
In this episode, you guys aregoing to look at and learn about
how classic horror filmsinfluenced the chilling tone of
the New Mutants, how directorJosh Boone adapted the iconic
Marvel Demon Bear saga for thebig screen, how characters like
Danny, moonstar and Magic wereportrayed and whether they lived
up to their comic book roots,and how production nightmares
and the pandemic turned apromising franchise starter to a

(01:28):
box office blob Brash.
This movie is about five youngmutants just discovering their
abilities.
While held in a secret facilityagainst their will, they fight
to escape their past sins andsave themselves.
You know who directs this movie, brash?
Yes, that would be Josh Boone.
Yes, it is Josh Boone.
And yes, it is Josh Boone andit's also written by Josh Boone
and his best friend, nate Lee.

(01:48):
Big fan, big fan.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Josh Boone.
He's a big fan of the Marvelcomics.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
He actually is.
Yeah, and that shows throughthis whole movie him and Nate
Lee big fans of the New Mutantsas they sort of arrived around
the 80s and 90s and that sort ofera Got a couple of stars in
this young budding stars.
One of them that I enjoyedwatching was Charlie Heaton, the
mayor himself from StrangerThings.
He plays Sam Guthrie asCannibal.
Who are some people that youlike to watch in this one Brash?

(02:16):
Oh, annette Taylor-Joy.
She's always a joy to watch,absolutely Like her new movie on
Apple Plus.
The Gorge is also Love thatmovie, yeah, not too bad.
And then obviously she gainedfame from the Queen's Gambit and
she plays Also in our series.
Yeah, yeah, ileana Rasputin inthis one, and we've got Maisie
Williams as well, who wasobviously In Benethrones.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
She was Arya Stark.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
She can't escape that wolf vibe, can she?
No, she does a really good jobshe does in this one.
Yeah, she plays Rain Sinclair,who is obviously Wolf's bane
from the New Mutants.
She is kind of like the heartof this movie.
I would say she's the one allthe teen inmates slash patients
gather around.
You might say, yeah, all right,brash, do you know how much
this movie was made for Budget?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
I'm going to much.
This movie was made for budget,I'm gonna guess I think 2020,
five mil, no much more.
67 million, 67.
I didn't think that last far asit has a pretty significant cg
in this movie, that would be alot of money, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
So 67 million is what it was made for and it actually
only grossed 49.2 million.
That's super unfortunate, yeah,super unfortunate.
There's a couple of reasons forthat we might get into in the
podcast.
But, brash, here's a little ofreasons for that we might get
into in the podcast.
But, brash, here's a little funfact for you.
Before we get into our fandomfacts, face-off in our first
pre-facts.
A pre-fact, you might say Didyou know?
A lot of people are on thefence, you might say, about this

(03:36):
movie, the New Means, but itwas actually nominated for an
award and it wasn't a Razzie.
It was actually nominated forthe best comic book to film
motion picture adaptation for2020.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
To be fair, it is extremely accurate because Josh
Broon obviously was a huge fan.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Exactly right.
It is very accurate to theDemon Bear saga, which we'll
also be going into in today'sepisode.
The other nominees for thisaward in 2021 was Bloodshot with
Vin Diesel, Birds of Prey withMargot Robbie and the Joker.
So they didn't win becauseobviously the Joker won it, but
it is interesting to know thatthe New Means was in fact,
nominated for an award which,yeah, very interesting.

(04:15):
Alright, let's dive into ourFirst Takes segment.
Alright, this is our FirstTakes segment.
This is where we discuss ourfirst thoughts of the media and
unpack the boldest opinions,from what surprised us to what
split the room.
We'll also highlight your hottakes from our threads,
Instagram and Reddit community.
So if you wanted to getinvolved in that, make sure you
check out the show notes below.
All our social links are thereand we read out a lot of the

(04:36):
comments that we get on ourpodcast.
So, Brash, you selected thismovie the new moon so obviously
you'd seen it and you had someopinions about it uh.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
So I was so excited originally when this movie was
announced because it was goingto be that full horror like it
was going to like pretty muchdirect from the comics.
It was going to be a lot darkerthat I think they've lightened
it from what the comics sort ofwere overall still like it still
had that sort of horrorishtheme, but, um, I still think it

(05:06):
was still rated PG, I think,wasn't it?
Yeah, it was PG-13.
Pg-13, which I was still alittle bit surprised about,
because they have certain themesin there that I thought would
probably make it that sort of Mrating.
But I also because one of myfavorite Marvel characters,
maybe even just one of myfavorite mutant Marvel
characters is magic, and when Iheard that she was going to be

(05:28):
in it.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I was like hell, yeah , yeah.
And might I just say they couldnot have cast her better.
In my opinion, looks wise theway that she was portrayed and
in Taylor, joy did a fantasticjob playing Ileana Aspudin 100%,
yeah, I really hope she doescome back in some capacity, just
even as a cameo.
I think she was the shiningstar of this movie, but I was
the same.

(05:49):
I found that this movie wasn'treally my cup of tea, as is very
well documented on this podcast.
I'm not a horror guy.
I find them very, very scary.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
If it had been I mean really one of them you might
not be able to get through it.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's it .
But you know, apparently Boonedesigned this film as a
psychological horror movie.
So it explores like trauma andisolation, and the kids in the
movie are finding their identitywhich is literally what X-Men
characters in the comic booksare all about through the most
traumatic moments of their lifeduring the X-Men comic books,
because they are navigatingthrough their mutations which is

(06:27):
obviously a stand-in forpuberty as well and all of the
different things that arehappening to your body at the
time and all of the differentsocial connections that you gain
and lose during that time.
So this movie does a really goodjob of actually highlighting
that as a primary theme in X-Mencomics, which doesn't really
happen a lot in superhero movies, but it especially doesn't
happen in the old x-men uhmovies, the ones that start like

(06:47):
hugh jackman and james marsden,things like that.
They kind of skip that entireaspect of the x-men and go more
for, like the, the found familyteam of mutants with abilities,
action, superheroes blastingblah, blah, that kind of thing,
but they never really explorethe characters, which is what I
really liked about this movie isthat they actually dove into
who these people were maybe notto the full extent that some
people would have liked, but youwere able to see some of those,

(07:08):
you know, emphasizing some ofthe lower sort of consequences
of an X-Men movie.
So it was actually said as wellthat in this movie the kids in
the movie were able to talk toeach other in ways that mutants
in other X-Men movies didn'treally talk to each other in
that manner, you know.
They were actually talking toeach other as teenagers,

(07:29):
especially during the atticscene that we saw.
So for me, that was the thingthat stood out to me the most.
That was my hot take is thatthis actually looked at that
exploration of trauma, isolationand identity, where the
characters could actuallyexplore this mutation that's
happening to them, which wouldbe traumatic.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
So that explore this mutation that's happening to
them, which would be traumatic.
So that was that was my bigtake, and I like how um they
used um the character of dralice played by alicia braga.
Um alice braga, sorry um to besort of like the doctor slash,
the psychiatrist person thereand which helped like and that
helps to is like, instead ofjust having the kids in this
sort of like makeshift xavierschool to move on to the next
place, it's more of an explorer.
It helps the narrative toexplore each of their traumas.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, the mysterious element that she adds is really
good because if you're a fan ofthe comic book, you obviously
know the ins and outs of theEssex Corporation and Charles
Xavier and the kind of hintsthat they were dropping through
the middle of the movie therewith Dr Reyes.
But it's also important to notethat Dr Reyes in the comic
books is actually like a goodguy.
She plays Forcefield or she'sForcefield, a mutant who's able

(08:35):
to develop Forcefield, and she'salso a very prominent doctor.
So having her in there and theconstant references to Charles
Xavier was purposefulmisdirection and you know what
it actually worked on me.
I'm I'm like a, an avid x-menfan and I knew that this was
about like some sort of horrorelements and nothing was really
as it seemed.
But it still worked on mebecause I knew that those
characters, I knew who they wereand as a result of that, I
trusted them because they werex-men that I knew and trusted.

(08:57):
So I think that the you know,josh boone leaned into that,
being a comic book fan himself,knowing that the people that
were actually watching thismovie as comic book fans,
especially fans of the demonbear saga from 1982 would really
appreciate the changes that hemade and to this movie and the
way that, um, like people whoare like, oh, but she's a good
guy the way he could get around.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
that is because of her employer who has, who has,
in fact, many times cloned andcopied and made copies of other
myths, so she may not even bethe real Alice Reyes.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Exactly right and the pin that is on her lapel all
the time that you can see.
That is something that MrSinister usually gives to
somebody or it's on their bodysomewhere in the comic books if
they're being controlled by,manipulated, or is a clone of
somebody made by Mr Sinister,also known as Nathaniel Essex.

(09:51):
So, yeah, lots of things toreally enjoy in this movie.
What did you think of the blendof genres, Brash, if we're
talking about psychologicalhorror and the superhero genre,
because I know for some peopleit was very controversial
because it wasn't what they wereexpecting, and for others it
was a breath of fresh air.
What were your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
oh, I, I really loved it.
That's why I was really hopingfor a more darker.
I was hoping for that morebecause when, like it was first
dance, because then they had tostop production and pretty much
redo nearly the whole time moviebecause I had to make it less
bright, which was a little bitsad.
But I I was so excited becauseif you're like, look at some of
the comics like they are quitethey can be quite dark.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Oh yeah, especially the new mutants run.
The new mutants run, which wasum, primarily written by chris
claremont and pencils and inksdone by bill sinkowitz.
They were the flagship comic,that sort of sped off from the
x-men, where they were able tojust try new things.
So the x-men was always wherethey would sort of keep it a
little bit safe and do all ofthe x-men things that everybody

(10:52):
was expecting.
And the new mutants was thatspin-off where they could say,
okay, we're gonna, we're gonnasend them to space and they're
gonna meet a extraterrestrialalien called warlock.
In this episode they're gonnafight a like a spiritual bear,
like they literally just threwthings at the audience just to
see what stuck, just to see whatthey could do.
And that kind of creativefreedom for Chris Claremont and
Bill Sinkowitz, who was theartist, was really it was just
emboldening for them.
And Bill Sinkowitz is an actualmassive fan of the Demon Bear

(11:15):
saga.
He's the one that drew issue 18, 19, and 20.
If you haven't read it, Irecommend you and and pick up a
copy of it because just for theart style like it's, it was a
tonal change at the time andthere was just these visceral
ink, heavy, impressionistic,vibrant uses of colors.
It was juxtaposed with thisheavy black and it really sort
of had these heavy art linesthat showed it was almost like

(11:35):
someone was psychotic drawingthese pictures, showing these
these controversial sort of likerealism was was out the window
when it came to these comicbooks and it was like an
exaggeration of everything interms of he used character size,
for example, he would draw thesizes of the character in a
manner that would show howpowerful they were to the

(11:56):
audience as opposed to themsaying it in dialogue.
And for him to be paired withChris Claremont was really
interesting because he's a veryimpressionistic artist and Chris
Claremont is a very literal andlore heavy comic writer.
So that pairing together workedreally well for the New Mutants
and when we're talking aboutthis Demon Bear saga, I think
they adapted it really well also.

(12:17):
So I think that a horrorsuperhero movie for the New
Mutants was a perfect fit.
And when Bill Sinkowitzactually came on as a creative
consultant and he looked andtalked to Josh Boone, he said,
oh, this guy actually gets it.
He knows what we're going totry and do when we're going to
make a New Mutants comic book.
Back in the 80s we actuallywere trying to go with this kind
of horror vibe.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
The fact that they wanted to get a darker
psychological horror and withthe superpowers, and I think,
think, like I know some peopledon't like that blend, but I
think that blends perfect,because you've got kids who
don't understand their powers,don't understand what's
happening to them.
It would be a terrifying thingand, like you see, in like all
your yeah, like all the othermovies that you see, you've got

(12:58):
the x-men that it's a bit more,it's always a bit more lighter
and fluffier and morefantastical, whereas in reality,
like not being able to touchanyone or fear of just
considering them unless you're apsychopath, would be a fine,
terrifying.
And that's why I think it was ashame that I wasn't allowed to
go sort of that darker pathbecause, like for me, it was

(13:21):
like I don't mind horror, I likea bit of horror, and everything
was sort of like for me, justlike on the edge of being
awesome.
But it was like I don't mindhorror, I like a bit of horror,
and everything was sort of likefor me, just like on the edge of
being awesome, but it was justjust that tone down, that enough
that I was just like, ah, it'slike almost horror enough for me
, but it just yeah, never quitegot there and that's probably
why a lot of the charactersdidn't get the full expose of

(13:41):
who they are, because theycouldn't go that dark and and
like that was a lot of the.
What people didn't like was thefact that it didn't quite
explore fully all the characters, but to be fair, they couldn't
because they didn't let them goas dark as they probably could
have yeah, I agree, yeah, it's,it's never fully expressed for

(14:02):
us as well.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
And you know, I I watched a couple of interviews
with with josh boone and andthey said you know they did want
to explore this horror andsuspense-borne, psychological
thriller kind of element of theX-Men, because a lot of the
other X-Men movies were veryoperatic, so they were grand,
like you were saying, and theyusually had like global

(14:23):
consequences.
If they weren't going to stopthe phoenix force, the literal
world would end.
But this sort of drilled itright down to what happens to an
individual when the thing aboutthem that they thought was true
is utterly changed.
And that is very compelling towatch when you've got five of
these characters that are goingthrough this same sort of change

(14:44):
and trauma and they're bondingtogether to try and get through
it, which I think he said it wasa mix of Stephen King and John
Hughes, which I think isperfectly describing what this
movie is and what the NewMutants kind of tone was.
So Nate Lee actually saidsomething very poignant and
perfect I think, when he wasreferring to this movie.

(15:05):
He said a lot of X-Men moviesare very grandiose but what they
wanted to do with this movie,the New Mutants was to let it be
what it is, and that was ano-costume, no-supervillain,
character-driven, psychological,horror-filled movie and in my
opinion, I think they pulledthat off as best they could in

(15:25):
the situation that they had,because they did have some
challenges as well, which we'llprobably get into a little bit
later in the pod.
All right, shall we get intoour community's thoughts on this
movie.
Brash Sure, yes, okay.
So on our Reddit our Reddit wasa little bit quieter on this
movie.
For this one we had a couple ofpeople commenting.
We have Mickey Flynn on ourReddits that says it was great,

(15:47):
and we also have Jugoso2014 saysthat I liked it better than the
last two X-Men movies, butthat's not saying much.
They're not very positive onthe Reddit front.
On our threads, we haveDadstunich that says magic was
actually awesome and hopes shecomes back into the MCU.
They highly doubt it.
Bobby Reads Comics says theydid Cecilia Reyes dirty, like

(16:09):
they didn't even cast an actor.
That was the right skin tone,and I know that there was a
couple of different commentsregarding Roberto's casting,
sunspot's casting as well, sothat was something that sort of
surrounded the film.
Also, we have Dashiell2077 thatsays Anya Taylor-Joy was given
I'm not Russian and I'm no earfor accents at all.
Note perfect as Ileana Rasputin, I agree.

(16:32):
I think she was actuallyperfectly casted.
I think she did really wellBecause at the time, in 2017,
she was actually very young.
The movie being filmed in 2017wasn't released until 2020.
But at the time, she'd moved onto other projects before then
and this was one of her firstacting roles.
We have the misanthrope.
Runner says that it wasforgettable and it felt like it
was hacked up in the editing.

(16:52):
And we also have walter paisleythat says it was fun and the
young cast were uniformly good.
It's just another superheromovie, so fun is really all that
is required.
We also had samoliso, who is aregular commenter and also
somebody who's requested some ofour fandom portly as pics
episodes.
He says that it was fine.
It was sad and didn'tanticipate hearing wolf spade

(17:15):
talking about masturbation, butthat happened too.
So, yeah, thank you, samoliso.
Uh, so yeah, we've got somedefinite differences of opinions
out there in our hot takes forour community, I remember.
If you wanted to join in thoseand have them being read out on
the pod as well, make sure yougo to our socials in the show
notes below and become a part ofthe Fandom Portals community.
So I think it's safe to sayBrash.
It sounds to me like youenjoyed the film.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
I did, I very much did.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
And I did too.
I think it was great.
Let's jump into our fandom factface-off.
All right, this is where hostsgo head-to-head with trivia
about the focus media, learningnew facts along the way.
The host with the least pointsat the end of the month loses
and has to take the winner to anall expenses paid trip to the

(18:00):
movie.
However, this month we're doingsomething different.
This is a marvel team up,because it's marvel month.
Hosts are teaming up to collect15 points and send a lucky
listener to the movies.
However, this month we're doingsomething different.
This is a Marvel team-up,because it's Marvel Month.
Hosts are teaming up to collect15 points and send a lucky
listener to the movies.
That giveaway is open for youright now and all you have to do
is go towwwfandomportalspodcastcom and
join our emailing list and hopethat we earn 15 points.
Brash, do you remember?
I?

Speaker 1 (18:20):
think we got to.
It didn't quite get there, sowe got five.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
We did.
We got to five.
We have the potential to getsix per episode and we're doing
four episodes, so potentially wehave the points to get to 24.
But last week we only got five,so hopefully this week we get
some more for our luckylisteners to be going off to the
movies.
Remember, if you wanted to jointhat giveaway, go to
wwwphantomportalspodcastcom andjoin our emailing list.

(18:43):
All right, brash, you can gofirst with your question.
What do you got for me?

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Okay, so the majority of this film was located at
Medfield State Hospital inMassachusetts, and a lot of the
cast and crew were unsettled bythis.
Why is?

Speaker 2 (19:01):
that I know the answer to this one.
So the Medfield State Hospitalwas one of Massachusetts' first
insane asylums in the area ofBoston.
Filming at the site wasunsettling and crew members
reported hearing strange noisesand unexplained occurrences
during the night shoots andthings like that.
It was also the set locationfor Shutter Island, martin

(19:23):
Scorsese's film starringLeonardo DiCaprio, mark Ruffalo.
So it is known as a verydilapidated building, eerie and
containing some very spookyelements of the strange, we
might say.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Imagine trying to shoot a horror suicide movie and
you're at a place where there'screepy noises and shit going on
everywhere.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, yeah, I watched a behind-the-scenes video where
Josh Boone, the director,actually when he would hear some
of his crew thinking that theyheard a supernatural occurrence,
he would run to that site andhe would actually try to talk to
the supernatural to try andactually comfort the crew and,
yeah, obviously try and see ifanything would happen, because

(20:07):
it would add an element ofrealism and, you know, a
fearfulness to the cast and crew.
That would help the movie inthe long run.
So, yes, Medfield StateHospital very unsettling real
world location.
It's been used in a few otherthings as well, but I think the
main like gothic style hospitalthat we can think of is Ashfield
Hospital from Shutter Island.
So gothic style hospital thatwe can think of as Ashfield
Hospital from Shutter Island.

(20:27):
Did I answer?

Speaker 1 (20:28):
that question you did .
Okay, cool, you smashed it.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I went above and beyond.
Very good.
We know that this movie wasoriginally slated for release in
April of 2018.
It, however, faced someunprecedented delays.
Why was the new minze delayedso many times before it was
released?
There are two reasons, mainly.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Well, it wasn't only because it was too dark and they
had to reshoot because it wastoo dark and make it a little
bit less dark.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Not quite, but that is a consequence of one of the
things that happened.
So basically, josh Boone, oh,was it because Disney took over
Marvel.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, that was one of the things that happened.
So, basically, josh Boone, oh,was it because Disney took over
Marvel.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yes, that was one of the reasons, exactly right.
So when Fox was in control,josh Boone made the movie that
we see today.
He made that movie that we seetoday because Fox was really
holding the reins on what hecould do in terms of how much
horror he could instill into themovie.
However, when Disney bought Foxand they did some test
screenings and ran some teasertrailers and if you remember the

(21:27):
teaser trailer, that it was sogood, it was so good.
The Pink Floyd, another Brickin the Wall, that was just
perfect.
That tested so well withaudiences that even Disney was
like lean into that horror.
So, when they were actuallygoing to go back to do the
reshoots, they were encouraginghim to do that, which was very
awesome.

(21:49):
However, they didn't get thetime to do it for the second
reason that it was delayed.
You know what that was, I wasgonna say well, it was around
the same time as covid, exactlyright.
So the covid 19 pandemicstopped this one from being
released.
The theatrical release wasdelayed again and it was
actually going to be opened inaugust of 2020.
So I did get did get atheatrical release.
However, not many people wantedto go and see it because it was
the height of the pandemic.
Prior to that.

(22:10):
It was also moved aroundbecause the X-Men movie I think
it was Dark Phoenix, the laterone.
They wanted to move the date ofthis movie so they didn't
coincide.
Because when Disney purchasedFox they obviously didn't want
to double dip across theirmovies and split their audience,
so based a lot of productiondelays.
But yes, brashy, it's just sucha shame.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I think, because I thought it was because Disney
bought it.
That's why they went less dark.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
But if Disney wanted to go more dark, such a shame,
yeah, and I think that sort ofsits in line with the, the, with
the way that they've been going, because if you think of how
they didn't really hold back onDaredevil Born Again and they
haven't really held back on anyof the Deadpool movies in terms
of their R rating, because thatwas the big fear as well when
Fox and Sony were bought byDisney, that some of their

(22:57):
properties would get dulled downto accommodate a Disney
audience.
However, disney has been verygood at keeping the tone of most
of their productions how theaudience likes them.
But yeah, it was.
It was just a really, really,really big shame that this one
it was kind of always seen asthe, the ugly stepbrother, you
might say, of the, the superheromovies, because nobody really
knew what to do with it.
They sort of just left it inthe background because, as, as

(23:18):
you heard, you know, they wouldprioritize the releases of other
movies in their repertoirebefore they would release the
new mutants and then, eventually, they were holding onto it for
so long they were just like,okay, we'll drop it in august
2020.
As a result of all these delays, they weren't ever able to make
those major reshoots, for acouple of reasons, the first one
being that the actors werethree years older and they

(23:40):
weren't teenagers anymore, so itwas really difficult for them
to do that.
But from april 2018 to august2020 was how long this movie was
held in limbo.
Basically, pun intended.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's going to be something great and like cool.
If we add some sort of somesort of teasing Wolverine,
deadpool, wolverine, these guysthat would be cool as well.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I will.
You know, with everythinghappening in the Marvel Universe
, I'm not counting it as deadjust yet, because there are some
characters in here in the X-Menare coming that I would love to
see back.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I absolutely would love to see actually all five
and then they Like becauserealistically now they would be
older.
So, and even though they'reolder, I still reckon they all
sort of look still similar-ish.
Yeah, like Maisie hasn't reallyaged since fucking Game of
Thrones, really.

(24:32):
No, absolutely, she's stilllike shorter of stature and
everything like that.
And I even, out of the joy youstill reckon, I reckon she looks
a little bit older and a bitmore mature, but still looks
pretty similar to how she was inthe movies, though yeah.
I reckon that and I'm reallyhoping that they bring magic
back, especially since she'smade appearances in that Marvel

(24:54):
video game that they made.
I've got it.
I can't remember the name of it.
Now where you use cards oh,snap, marvel, snap.
I can't remember the name of itnow where you use cards, oh,
snap, marvel, snap.
No, not Marvel Snap.
It's the one Midnight Sun.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Right Midnight Sun yes, Midnight Sun.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, she's prominent in that one, and then she's in
New Marvel Rivals and you know,if we're talking about cartoon
universes as well.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
X-men 97, morph turned into magic in one of the
episodes through that as well,so she has made some appearances
since the New Mutants.
But, yes, I agree, I do hopeshe returns because, yes, a very
big, big star now but a veryawesome character to portray on
screen, especially with some ofthe comic books that came later
on down.
The New Mutants run likeInferno.

(25:34):
That is just a really awesomearc, and even the story of
Ileana Rasputin in Limbo that'sjust a really great story as it
stands as well.
I went to that rabbit hole theother night.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
We'll probably get into that a little bit later too
in the podcast, but we digress.
I believe it is your question,brash, and the score so far just
to score update everybody istwo points to add to our pool.
So we've got a total now ofseven points, which means we're
sort of halfway there.
For one of our families to goto the movies on us this month,

(26:05):
yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
All right, so Mr Sinister was actually going to
be in the movie.
Do you know who's going?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
to portray him.
I do, and I actually think it'sawesome.
It is awesome.
It would be such a good casting.
He would be an absolute amazingcasting.
I've loved this guy since.
I've seen him in baby driver,but he obviously had a really
awesome role in madman as well.
We're obviously talking aboutjohn ham.
What a great casting.
His face shape and hiseverything is so perfect.

(26:35):
Yep, absolutely perfect casting.
And you know, that's anotherthing that I hope comes back.
Uh, because, yeah, this thishad so much potential.
And you know, that's anotherthing that I hope comes back.
Uh, because, yeah, this thishad so much potential.
And you know and he actuallydid shoots like yeah, they.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Actually he had parts in the film, like he had a part
in the film, but then when theydid the reshoots they had to
cut pretty much him.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, they were movie yeah, they obviously couldn't
do any of the research reshootsto make it make sense, and that
was also seen in a couple of thedeleted scenes as well If
you've got the Blu-ray editionor you can find them online as
well.
But some of the deleted scenesactually were either some of the
horror elements that theywanted to keep in or it was some
of the elements that they werekeeping in to tie it to a couple

(27:13):
of sequel films or into thegreater X-Men box universe.
So that would have been whereit kind of would be placed, but
unfortunately again they weren'tallowed to have the the time to
to make these reshoots.
But, john ham, what an amazingchoice for mr sinister.
All right, my turn.
Here we go.
All right, here is my question.
We have noted on this podcast,on this very episode, that the

(27:36):
uh, the cgi in this movie isactually quite good, considering
it's got a budget of $67million.
We know movies that have abudget that is much bigger, that
have worse CGI.
What is the reason that the CGIwas so good and also, which
mutant's powers was hardest tovisually convey?

Speaker 1 (27:56):
This is a hard one.
I'm not sure, so I'm going totake a stab at the dark with it.
Do you want your clue?
Yeah, okay, yeah, actually I'lla hard one.
I'm not sure, so I'm going totake a stab at the dark with it.
Do you want your clue?
Yeah, okay, yeah, actually,I'll take the clue.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
All right, so it is, the mutant whose powers were
hardest to portray was the onewho, pretty much, was the most
powerful one of the five, and itwas hard to do because there
was a lot of things that theyhad to include, which combined
digital environments, creatureeffects and seamless transitions

(28:28):
between dimensions.
So obviously it's magic.
Yes, it's magic.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
And that's who I'll still go against magic, because
she has to jump through herportals.
She also has to get her leftarm whenever she summons a sword
, soul sword.
And then also you've got.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Lockheed, the dragon and the demon bear at the end as
well, and the reason that theywere able to work so hard on the
CGI was because the movie wasdelayed so long that they had a
very long post-production.
So it was really awesome to seebecause it really paid off in
terms of those teleportationsequences near perfect.
You could always see a littleelement of limbo in the

(29:06):
background as she was coming toand from different dimensions
there.
When she was in the end sceneand she was flipping over the
demon bear and slicing her soulslid through and Lockheed
himself just looks absolutelyamazing and cute.
He needs to come back as well.
But yeah, I loved every elementof the the cgi in this movie.
No notes.
I think it was great.
I've seen lots of movies thatare a thousand times worse with

(29:26):
a lot less budget.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
So tap on the shoulder for the new mutants cgi
department okay, what was, whatwas significant about this
movie being marvel entertainmentand marvel entertainment film
specifically?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
was it that marvel didn't actually have anything to
do with making this movie?
Not quite.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
It's a pretty monumental thing and it's the
last time any Marvel movie'sdone this or had this because of
the reasons for it.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'm pretty sure this has something to do with Stan
Lee being the executive produceron the production.
Is that?

Speaker 1 (30:02):
correct, that is correct.
It's the very last MarvelEntertainment film that Stan Lee
is the executive producer.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yes, obviously on account of his passing
afterwards, but this is the lastone you can see him.
This is the last one in thecredits that you see his name
going through.
Okay, last question, here we go.
There was, in early drafts ofthis film, brash in the New
Mutants film, a famous Marvelcharacter.
That was all Bruce included.

(30:29):
Well, yeah, they were, but thisis actually a member of the New
Mutants as well.
Warlock, yes, but yeah, warlock,the techno-organic alien mutant
, was originally scripted untilthe budget constraints came in,
because it would be very hard toportray all of the mutant
abilities they were trying toput in, as well as a cyborg in

(30:50):
there as well, which had veryvisceral kind of powers that
they'd have to try and put in.
Do you know who they actuallywere in talks with to play
Warlock in this movie?
I was like it was a strange onefor me too.
It was.
It was Sasha this movie.
I was like it was a strange onefor me too, it was.
It was like Sacha Baron Cohen.
Yes, correct, yeah, you lookedat the five cast and then you

(31:11):
looked at Sacha Baron Cohen.
I suppose you wouldn't actuallysee him.
No, no, he was going to bemotion captured in CGI for the
most part it never extendedbeyond initial talks, just
because that budget did sitaround 67 to 80 million dollars
at the time and which which wassmall even compared to superhero
standards.
And you know, he was initiallygoing to be almost like that
comic relief character to cutthrough some of the horror

(31:33):
elements of the movie at thebehest of fox studios.
But I think that would haveeven lessened the the impact of
those psychological horrorelements that we like so much
about this movie as well, so I'mactually glad that they didn't
include him in there.
It was actually also rumoredthat he would appear or Warlock
at least would appear in plannedsequels.
This movie had two plannedsequels one that would follow

(31:54):
the New Mutants going into aspace or alien invasion-like
adventure and the third one thatwas going to be a part of this
trilogy was going to be theInferno saga, which would have
been awesome, yeah, but I don'tknow how I'd feel about the
alien invasion, because thatjust seems like three very
distinct, different kind ofmovies that they were trying to
make and tie together.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
I suppose, though, it would be in probably perfect
new mutant fashion, but Isuppose they probably needed if
I was to watch this new mutant,and but I suppose they probably
needed if, if they're, if I wasto watch this new mutant and
then then the next one thatwould go into the invasion, I
would find it weird.
But if they were, did the newmutants like a sort of
introduction to all thecharacters and then, towards the
end, coming to warlock and wentinto space or whatever, like.

(32:38):
I'd find it a bit morerealistic, but I wouldn't be
able to see him going from thismovie as we got it to going to
how to spell, like to theinvasion.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
That'd be a bit weird .
I 100 agree.
I think it would have been toomuch of a stretch for us.
Uh, in that regard and you knoweven in the the book that this
is based off the demon bear sagain issue 18, 19, and 20, it
does cut between elements thatare occurring between Danny
Moonstar and her team in theDemon Bear and outer space

(33:07):
elements with Adam Warlock.
And if you're thinking about itfrom the perspective of somebody
that's reading these, in the80s they didn't have Marvel
Unlimited.
At the time you couldn't justgo down to the comic book shop
and pick up all of the issuesthat you'd previously had before
.
You just get the issues thatyou'd previously had before.
You just get the issues thatyou find.
And if you miss and can't findissue 18 of the new mutants,
then you literally just have togo by the recap that comes in
issue 19.
It wasn't as easily accessibleas it was now.

(33:27):
So it was.
It was kind of out of place tosee, yeah, those starfaring
elements in the middle of thisspiritual demon bear story.
But, as I said before, you knowthat's what they were trying to
do with this book.
They were just trying toexperiment and see where they
could go in the 90s with theX-Men, because Chris Claremont
was just trying new things,because he ended up being a very

(33:49):
influential writer and aflagship man in terms of
creating lots of titles for theX-Men and he was just spreading
his wings and seeing what stuck.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I would have loved I hope that's something that they
might think about in the futurebut to see these characters when
they're older and like incontrol of their powers, because
I'd love to see at thisfacility being tested on by
Cecilia Reyes to see if theycould become these killing
machines for.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Mr Sinister.
So really they were justscratching the surface of what
they could do and us, as comicbook fans know what they can do
and we love to and want to seeit on screen.

(34:36):
But unfortunately we weren'table to and hopefully we do.
But right now we're going tojump into our set secrets
segment with a total of sixpoints from that segment.
Brash, that means we all gotperfect scores and we have a
total of 11 points going intoour next round of the phantom
facts face-off.
So we need four more points,not too bad very achievable, but

(34:57):
it was probably.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
It was pretty hard for me to try and find questions
that you probably wouldn't know, because you're I mean, I love
x-men.
I think you're more in that,even more an x-men fan than I am
.
X-men is my jam.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Ultimate comic nerd, nerddom, I sit in x-men.
It's the earliest thing that Iremember reading yeah, yeah,
x-men's, my x-men's, my jam.
So yeah, it is a hobby, youmight say but yeah, all right,
let's jump into our set secretssegment.
This is where hosts look behindthe scenes of the focus movie

(35:33):
to give you all the informationon what went right, what went
wrong and what was interestingabout the way the movie was made
.
We're talking about the newMutants movie, made in 2020.
And we're also going to lookquite deeply here at the Easter
eggs that are presented in thismovie, because there is some
very strong influences fromhorror movies and there's also

(35:53):
some very strong X-Men ties inthis movie as well.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
I know Nightmare on Elm Street was one of the
specifically Nightmare on ElmStreet 3.
One specifically Nightmare onElm Street 3 was one of the
inspirations the Breakfast Club,if you know me enough, and Once
Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, yeah.
So Once Flew Over the Cuckoo'sNest was a very claustrophobic
sort of psychological thrillermovie starring Jack Nicholson,
and in a lot of those scenes inthe movie they were in almost
like therapy sessions, which iswhat we saw, with these mutants
sitting in a circle talking withuh, with Dr Reyes as well

(36:31):
during those movies and the theclaustrophobic settings that was
really kind of confining andadded to the tension of this
movie was also present in in oneof the cookies nest.
And you're absolutely right,the Breakfast Club is, you know,
that classic 80s movie.
They're all in there fordetention, they're trapped in
there.
There's five of them, there'sfive of these new mutants.
I definitely think that Ileanahits the burnout vibe in these

(36:52):
ones from the Breakfast Club and, yeah, and you know, roberto
fits the jock because in themovies Roberto, or Sunspot, is
actually a soccer player as well.
I just think that that's theJohn Hughes connection that they
were talking about in thismovie as well, with Josh Boone
saying that he was veryinfluenced by Stephen King and
John Hughes and he also saidthat he was especially

(37:14):
influenced by it and Stand by Meas well, which is another sort
of coming of age flick where,you know, children and teenagers
become friends in adultsituations.
That was definitely a biginfluence in it as well.
And what was the other one yousaid?
Nightmare on Elm Street.
Nightmare on Elm Street 3.
Yeah, the Dream Warriors.
Yeah, the Dream Warriors,danny's powers being nightmare

(37:36):
fueled, you might say.
Is, you know, people relivingtheir deepest fears, very
reminiscent of Freddy Krueueger,one of our favorite horror
movie villains I've heard I'venot, I'm not a horror guy, but
yeah, that that dream warriorone.
Apparently they're all in alike a dream sequence and all of
them have to work together totry and beat freddy and get out
of the dream sequence, which iskind of very similar to how they

(37:58):
adapted this demon bear thatwas then actually physically
attacking people, not onlyhaunting people's psychological
dreams as well.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
And they had to band together to fight the evil dream
.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yep, that's it.
Alright, we also have theShining.
There were some elements of theShining in this movie as well,
also starring Jack Nicholson.
Yeah, the Shining, yeah, yeah.
A lot of the long hallways andthe flickering lights were
influenced by the shining.
Especially the scene where yousee Sam and Ileana and a lot of
the Smiley Men sort of closingin on them.
That long shots of the hallwayswas influenced by the shining.

(38:32):
And also the way Ileana wouldtalk to her puppet yeah, like
the little girl, yeah, yeah, wasvery reminiscent of yeah, danny
, yeah, and he was talking inTony's voice with a finger.
Yeah, I think Annie Taylor-Joydoes that with the Lockheed
puppet as well.
So that was influenced by theShining.

(38:52):
Now on the TV, brash in thefacility, these five teenagers
would always watch a show behindthem.
Do you remember what it was?
It was Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, yes,and Josh Boone has gone on
record to say that he is anabsolute fanatic of Buffy the
Vampire Slayer.
The two episodes that featurenumber one was the Body, and
that was an episode thatfeatured one of the first

(39:16):
on-screen kisses from two femaleindividuals.
That was obviouslyforeshadowing the kiss that
happened between Danny and Rainin this movie and then later on
you saw the episode titled Hush,which was a Buffy episode where
it was mostly silent and theywere facing these evil villains
called the gentlemen, which werethe look of them was very much

(39:37):
inspired by all the smiley menwere very much inspired by the
gentlemen from the Buffy moviesand franchise.
So there was that connectionthere as well and, comic book
wise, the Smiley Men wereactually very heavily influenced
by a anti-mutant force calledthe Right and they always wore
those smiley masks and they wereinto things like human

(40:00):
trafficking and doing things tomutants that weren't really
human rights violations, youmight say, and trading them
across borders, using them assources of power.
So yeah, the right is whatinfluenced those Miley men in
Ileana's backstory as well.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, lockie was in the movie, even though
realistically, lockie isactually meant to be a pet of
Kitty Pryde's, not of Ileana's.
But then, because Ileana andKitty Pryde were such good
friends, lockheed would switchperson depending on who was more
prominent in the comic at thetime.
At the same time, lockheedwould be with Ileana, and
sometimes Lockheed would be withKitty Pryde because they were

(40:39):
best friends.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah it kid would be with uh key pride because
they're their best friends.
Yeah, it also played to theconnection of iliana rasputin
obviously being colossus'ssister and kitty pride having a
long-standing relationship withcolossus in the x-men films.
So even that sort of familyconnection in terms of
sister-in-law situation,lockheed was the there's the
device to that.
You might say iliana as well.
When she was fighting the demonbear, she referenced two
particular movies, not horrormovies, and it was within like
seconds of each other.

(41:07):
Do you remember what that was?

Speaker 1 (41:08):
no, I, I do, actually I remember, I remember it, but
like because I watched it liketwo months ago and now I've
forgotten she goes lions andtines.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh yeah, and that's from wizard of oz.
And in that same line shecalled him Yogi Bear, which is
from the cartoon Yogi Bear, interms of the X-Men references in
this movie.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, Xavier, obviously when they're saying,
oh, we're going to be an X-Man.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, so that was interesting to me because it
suggests that in this universethose kids know who the X-Men
are, they're famous, which tellsme that, canonically.
If they're talking about wherethis would be set, it's
obviously set before the movieof Logan, which was made in 2029
, because that's when all theX-Men have obviously been
destroyed and mutants are nolonger occurring.
Naturally They've been poisonedby humanity.

(41:54):
It may occur sometime after theDark Phoenix restored timeline
in 2024, so it hits somewhere inbetween those two levels.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Well, joss Brum was saying that it was meant to be
canonically set during X-MenApocalypse.
Well, he wanted it to, butcouldn't.
Because they wanted JamesMcAvoy and Alexander Shipp to
come in as Storm Storm and VersaX to be a part of it, but they
couldn't because of all therewriting and being COVID-ish

(42:28):
era.
Yep.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
They couldn't do it.
Yeah, and you know Raya'scontinually saying this is the
man I work for, or my superiorhas a school for gifted
youngsters.
Using that specific languagethat everybody knows is
associated with Charles Xavieris purposefully misleading to
X-Men fans.
And even there was a scene whenthey're talking in the attic
and Roberto Sunspot is actuallywheeling himself on a wheelchair

(42:51):
at the time and they say who doyou think's in charge of all of
this?
And he says can't you tell?
And he does this gesture to hishand, with his hand to his
temple, which we know issynonymous with Charles Xavier
as well.
So they're very familiar withthe X-Men.
But that also is a way tomislead the audience in saying
these characters think thatCharles Xavier is in charge and
they're also eventually going tobe X-Men, when in fact the real

(43:11):
villain was Mr Sinister.
Throughout the movie the EssexCorp branding is seen throughout
.
So on the computer systemsobviously you see the Essex Corp
, even the actual hospital name,which was Milbury Hospital.
Yeah, newbury, newbury, milbury.
Yeah, nathaniel Milbury was analias of Nathaniel Essex, who

(43:34):
was Mr Sinister as well.
So that's the very first littleEaster egg that you get from Mr
Sinister.
We talked earlier about the pinas well with the diamond signal
.
That Essex corp logo alsooccurred at the end in one of
the end credit scenes of theearlier x-men movies where the
dna is being taken.
So there are a lot of thosesort of homages you might say
back to that.
That villain that we have neverreally gotten, he's the biggest

(43:55):
villain that we haven't gottenin a live action x-men movie yet
.
So I think in this MCU durationhe's going to be the one that
is coming at us.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Mr Sinister usually is one of the biggest.
Yeah, he's like the Doctor Doomof X-Men.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, he's very responsible for a lot of our
favorite heroes.
Turning to the dark side, youmight say, in X-Men 97, he is
responsible for Cable'stechno-organic virus.
He's extremely obsessed withthe Summers lineage as well as
the Greys lineage and havingthose two together is just like
a scientist's wet dream, youmight say, for him.

(44:35):
He just loves seeing those twogenealogies mixed together to
see what mutant combinations cancome from that he's responsible
for.
In an alternate timeline, drHenry McCoy Beast becoming Dark
Beast and actually going furtherdown the rabbit hole of a dark
scientific sort of explorationof his abilities as well.
He's always associated withturning those good heroes bad,

(44:56):
which is very interesting whenit comes to the MCU because I'm
wondering how he's going to comeinto the fold.
But in terms of this New Mutantsmovie, he's definitely the one
behind the scenes Longest drinksNever fully seen, and you know
it comes to the point on thecomputer screen where it says

(45:17):
you know more tests required forDanny Moonstar's powers, but
then eventually it gets toexterminate more trouble than
she's worth.
Basically yeah.
And then it signs off with theEssex Corporation, which is the
big twist and the big reveal.
I will say that that was alittle bit.
It wasn't such a big twist anda reveal for me because
obviously I'm very familiar withthis and I think for people
that aren't familiar with thecomics they'll see okay.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Essex Corporation that aren't familiar with the
comics they'll see.
Okay, that's cool.
Yeah, because they won't know,doctor's there.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
They won't know.
It's sinister.
But for people like myself andyou who know that kind of thing,
you know that there's thislooming fear up in the sky, up
in the background, who's verydangerous, who could appear but
also is running a facility likethis.
That's very exciting and veryenticing for us as viewers
because it keeps us hooked andengaged.
They're in a bad situation now,but it could definitely get
worse, and I think thatdefinitely gets lost if you're

(46:04):
not familiar with the lore ofX-Men.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, I would have liked a sort of subtle hint to
Colossus, like not even sayingthe name, but like Iliad, like
at one point when she's tellingthem that they're trapped in
there and they can't escape, at,like the start, what she's
saying you can't leave, you're abird in a cage, blah, blah.
Like something, maybe even justdropping um, uh, don't worry,
my brother will find me, orsomething like that.
Some sort of some sort of hint,because obviously her brother

(46:29):
would be part of x-men and herbeing in this place and her
brother being x-men, and thenbeing fooled that this is an
x-men sort of free facility,like she would probably have
some sort of thought that I am,my brother's an X-Men, surely
like.
And this being an X-Menfacility, surely at some point
he'll come because he knows I'mhere.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, that's also probably one of the biggest
criticisms that critics had,obviously connecting Ileana and
Peter, peter Rasputin, colossusbeing her brother.
There are a couple of ways youcan explain it.
If you wanted no-transcript, itsafe.

(47:26):
But I definitely think it wouldhave been awesome for fans,
awesome for us, especiallyseeing colossus in the deadpool
movie yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
So I mean like she's actually directly like, say,
like peter or colossus ringlights.
But if, if she just says, likejust mentioned my brother, my
brother or something like that,um, it would just uh, it was
just.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
We would like to say a subtle nod to all the x-men
fans like oh, we know who you'retalking about yeah, exactly,
it's always good when they dothat, hey, because you feel like
you're part of the the in crowdand that's what you go home and
you look up, you know when youwhen you're not in in that sort
of situation where you know it.
But one of the last ones thatI'll bring up for this part of
the set secrets segment is therewas footage used in this movie

(48:05):
that was not used in the Loganmovie.
So the Logan movie obviously hadfootage shot on a mobile phone
of of kids being fermented onand pulled in various different
directions and tested, and ayoung Daphne Keene is actually
visible in some of the scenes inthis New Mutants movie, which
was another little X-Men easteregg, showing some, some of the

(48:27):
footage from Logan that DannyMoonstar saw when she was being
drugged by Dr Reyes and herpowers began to kick him.
Oh, they're all the easter eggsthat you might have missed.
They're all the easter eggsthat you might have saw from the
New Mutants.
But there's a lot to see, a lotof inspirations and also a lot
of tidbits from the x-men forfor fans like us to dive into,
which is kind of why I liked it.
It was just enough for me,without it being overbearing,

(48:49):
because you know when they tryto just shove it down your
throat throw it to me and thewhole thing just becomes a fan
service instead of an actualmovie exactly.
I think they didn't compromisethe story in terms of what they
were doing here.
I think what they were doingcomplemented the story, added a
little bit more for those fans.
However, I'd probably like totalk to somebody who wasn't so
associated with the comics tosee what they thought of some of

(49:10):
those pretty important plotelements.
Hanging on the fact that youdid need to know who Nathaniel
Essex was.
Know that the stakes are prettyhigh here.
That would have beeninteresting for me because I
think that would have been a bigflaw in the movie if you didn't
know, and it may have affectedmy rating if I didn't, but I do,
so my rating's high.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
My thought going into it is like the whole time,
because most people at leastknow who the X-Men are and
especially watching this, peoplewho take told to kill Mirage.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
That's sort of when it's like ooh, yeah, that's when
the penny drops, that's whenthe twist happens in the second
act.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
And then they're like oh, maybe these aren't, maybe
this is the next day, maybethese aren't good guys.
Yeah, so I think if for someonewho's not overly accustomed
like that is enough of the twistto be like, oh no, they're not
in a safe space.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
They're in a fucking, but not safe space.
Yeah, like a like a mentalinstitution that's definitely
going to do them harm and I, Ido, uh, also think.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Um, now I'm thinking about it and thinking about the
shining, because I have you seenthe shining?

Speaker 2 (50:23):
I haven't, but I've seen lots of clips of the
shining out of context and thatis why I know.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
So this you'll see.
Like at one one point themother is sort of covered in
blood and I was just thinkingthat, dr Razz, when she gets cut
up by Wolfbane and how shelooks, I'm like she looks
reminiscent of how the motherlooked in the movie, just like
sort of blood just all down theface and everything, and I was
like huh.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, I also saw in a deleted scene as well that was
pretty much ripped straight from.
Actually there were two scenesripped directly from from some
horror movies one from anightmare on elm street three
where uh, danny's in thesolitary confinement cell and
you can see the faces beginningto push through the walls.
That is a direct scene fromnightmare on elm street three.
So I've read.

(51:08):
And there's a scene from Psychoas well, ripped straight from
Psycho Maisie Williams in ashower screaming when the
Reverend is coming towards her.
That's a shot-for-shot remakefrom Psycho as well.
So even more sort of history.
That's all this stuff got mebecause one of the posters for
the movie was all their facescoming through the wall Very
creepy, but yeah, unfortunatelythat was one of the scenes that

(51:37):
they they cut and out of all ofthose sort of horror movie flick
scenes, that one okay, likethat that wouldn't be as scary
to me as seeing some of theother things.
But we digress.
Let's move on to our characterspotlight segment.
All right, so this is ourpopcorn perspectives character
spotlight, where we dive intostandout characters from the
movie.
Each host picks their favoriteand takes a closer look at how
they evolve through the story.
We broke down the character'sjourney and give our personal
take on why this characterdeserves your attention.

(52:00):
This week, brash, you had Magicyou did played by Anya
Taylor-Joy, and I had thecharacter of Danny Moonstar, or
Mirage, also known as Psyche,played.
I had the character of DannyMoonstar, or Mirage, also known
as Psyche, played by Blue Hunt.
You're going to go first today,brash, you're going to tell us
all about Magic.
She is definitely one of themore powerhouse-like characters

(52:21):
in this movie and also one of myMarvel rival mates.
She is annoying to verse inMarvel Rivals I'll say that Her
and also Iron Fist Anyone thatgets up close and personal.
But she also, yeah, she hasthat added ability, where she
can just teleport away.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, 100%, so good, but I bear this.
So, as Hela Joy plays,obviously, magic, ileana
Rasputina, who is the sister ofColossus in the comics Not
mentioned in the movie,unfortunately, but she is Deal
with it.
So in the comic she's had alike the movie, troubled

(53:01):
upbringing.
In the movie she appears tohave been caught by the spy men
who are from the group that usedto try and use the riot, that
use all the mutants for theirown personal gain, even though
they despise them also, who arefrom the group that used to try
and use the Rite, that use allthe mutants for their own
personal gain, even though theydespise them also.
But that's what people do whenthey hate things, they use them.
Yep, I think, even though theychanged the backstory a little

(53:25):
bit for Magic, she still is thesame type of character and I
think Anne played it really wellbecause she is the very like
sort of in the comics she is abit of a smile, yeah, yeah,
she's married in volatile and um, yeah, and she pretty much
plays.
If, when I was, when I wasreading the comics of magic and

(53:47):
then watching our tale of joy, Iwas like damn, that's like
almost like, yeah, taken fromdirectly from the paper of how
she acts and even though sheisn't german, uh, also russian,
um, her russian accent.
I'm not no linguist person oranything like that, but um, I
think she's done a terrific job,um, trying to capture that sort

(54:08):
of accent accent and she isknown for doing those sort of
accents.
Just like um in the newestmovie.
She's in gorge.
The sort of transformation shegoes through.
She in this movie she goes likefrom the get-go, from straight
up, she was the mean girl.
The new girl came she said look, the gate's open, you can run
if you want to.
And yeah, let danny ran fullsteam into the force field and

(54:31):
like, when she's talking to theLockheed puppet and he's like,
what's that Lockheed?
You hate her, me too.
And then, and like we bumpedinto her and like especially,
yeah, she was very, verystandoffish with Danny.
Yeah, a lot at the start.
And you see a slow progress.
You see her start to sort ofwarm up to all the characters,

(54:55):
especially because each of themsort of, even though they know a
bit about each other, asbecause wolf bane explains to
dan some of the backstories ofsome people to her, but she
doesn't really know everyone'sstories as they all, especially
when they're up in the attic andthey start doing this club
moment.
Um, they start learning a bitmore about each other.
I think she finds some sort ofkindred ship with them that, oh,

(55:19):
hang on, she's probably not theonly one who's had it a bit
rough yeah, and I think that'sthat's very apparent.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
When she's sitting there on the lie detector test
and she said they say you knowhow many men have you killed, or
something along those lines,and she, she reveals to them how
many people she's actuallyended the lives of, and you know
they're shocked.
But they still want to hang outwith her after that and you
know that's kind of comfortingfor her.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I guess you could say well, and yeah, you can see it,
because when she tells them shesort of has this sort of like,
she's like a like, especially,she's all those yeah, yeah, and
she's like uh, and it's like youcan see it on her face that
she's sitting there.
She's like all right.
Now, here is the moment whereeveryone disconnects from me,
runs away from me, and then theydon't, and then you sort of see
her face.

(56:00):
You can see her face sort ofshift from that smirk to the oh
yeah, they're not like callingme a murderer or they're not
scared of me or running away.
And I think that's really bigfor her because all she's really
known is well being fuckingkept as a prisoner and then sold

(56:20):
and used and used and abusedand um by these.
When, like, and her depictionthat daddy brings forth from her
memories of the Smiley man,like they're like a Splendor man
, creepy kind of vibe,terrifying, and you'd think that
in With the Mask that, likethey said, from the right, then

(56:43):
they look like they would be theright, because it's the only
really comic related thing I canthink of.
That's similar.
Because it's the only reallycomic-related thing I can think
of.
That's quite similar.
But the fact that they're notjust men by the mask, they're
full-on creatures long, creepy,slender fingers with the long
nails.
The mask is like.
You can see.
It's a mask.

(57:04):
There's also the face and likethe sharp teeth yeah, it's like.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
She associates them with a monstrous entity and not
human at all, which is obviouslywhat she did as a survival
tactic to go through that abusethat she went through.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Yeah, they weren't actually people.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
They were just monsters that she had to run
from yeah, faceless as well,which was the important part
with her.
But yeah, I definitely thinkshe masks her pain with cruelty
at the start.
She's this character thatprojects this confidence, like
you said, because internallyshe's completely haunted and
it's obviously projected outwardby.
She's kind of frozen in thischildlike fantasy state with

(57:42):
Lockheed.
She's very protective of thatpuppet, she talks to it like
it's her only friend and that isvery common and it reflects
like disassociation andpsychological scarring with her
character, which is like andAnya played it perfectly and
what little we did get from thisbackstory that we've given with
magic.

(58:02):
It's very obvious that she'sthe character that is obviously
putting up this emotional wallto stop people.
And I love what you said abouthow there is a moment where she
you can see it starting to comedown, because it definitely
defines her in the later part ofthe movie.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah, and I think a very winging part of the movie
is when they get sent toisolation, her and Danny Yep,
and the first thing, like onceshe's all like big notes, until
she gets into that room and whenthe door's closed and
everything shut up, you see herwhen she gets into the bed.
She gets in there and curlsinto a ball, yeah, with the

(58:38):
puppet, and they're sittingthere like basically face to
face with the lucky puppet andis sort of like trying to show
up, because I think, um, as muchas she wants to get off that
gravitas, her being alone andisolated in a tiny room is
probably the most scariest thingfor her.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah, yeah, four walls no escape.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
No escape Pretty much probably what she had to deal
with when she was a child lockedin a room, because when you see
the nightmares of her when shewas younger, you see her in a,
in the same position in um, likein a cot stranded with the
creepy smiley men looming overthe top, and so I think being in
that isolation room was astough as she was trying to put

(59:21):
on like the tough act.
As soon as she was alone there,she was extremely vulnerable
and just tightened up and justcurled into that field position
and there I think that that wasa um, looking at that moment was
a moment when because all ofyou seen her so far is that she
was a bitch.
And then you see this part andyou're like, oh damn, like

(59:44):
there's something else beneaththe surface I kind of like the
other manifestations of herpowers as well.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Obviously she's got that, uh, teleporting ability to
escape the reality.
That it's almost like all ofthese mutant abilities she has
originates from her trauma.
So she's got the teleportingability to get her out of danger
whenever she feels like she'sin it.
And then she's got thisextremely armored exterior along
her arm and that can almost beseen as like like you know how

(01:00:10):
some people, when they've beenhurt, they put on a protective
outer coat.
They don't want anybody to seethe gooeyness that's inside or
the hurt that's inside, so theyput on this armor that everybody
sees like.
She's got that metallic platingacross her arm and she's also
got her soul sword as well.
Now, later on in the movie sheobviously uses those two
abilities in an offensive,attacking sort of manner, and I
think that's also very poignantas well, because she shows these

(01:00:32):
signs of vulnerability to theother members of the facility
and then she gets extremelyloyal to them, like really loyal
, straight up, really quick.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So she creates those bonds and then she ends up
fighting for them and withouther they would have been very
poorly situated and I kind offeel like when she was younger
she was taken by the right andwhen she was really young, I
kind of have a feeling, becauseyou don't really know their ages

(01:01:04):
realistically, technically.
Well, I know with Anya'scharacter with magic, you don't
really know, but I know withangela's character with magic,
you don't really know her ageand to me she always seemed like
the older one, along with umsunspot, yep, um, they seem like
the oldest, and then possiblyalso um sam sam as well.
They seem like older, likeolder teens.

(01:01:28):
Even if, if iliana was say like17, possibly going on 18, even
better, 18 year ish, and if shewas say like six, seven, when
she was captured, there is afair few years where it could go
into her actual backstory ofwhen she was put into uh limbo,
into went to limbo and that'swhere she and learned how to use

(01:01:50):
the sword and that could be how, like, she got revenge on the
uh right, possibly, and how sheended up killing 18 men.
So there is that possibility ofher backstory still being sort
of comic related and that's sortof how she knows, because it
was even cool to see whenevershe went to the portal.
You could see into the portaland see the background.
See, there's like weird sort oflandscape, yeah, like a lot of

(01:02:12):
filled, yeah, and I thought thatwas a um a really good.
It's not like just like a um drstrange portal where it sort of
, yeah, until it opens up, yousee the other side and you just
like step through like it is.
As soon as it opens up, you seeit's like different landscape
and every time she opened up itwas sort of like a little bit
different and I like thoughtthat was a really good little

(01:02:33):
tidbit for her abilities.
And then when you actually seeLockheed, that was so cute
because Lockheed was so cute hewas.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
He was.
That.
That was a highlight at the endof the movie when he started
moving.
I knew it was like herimagination, but even so, even
the CGI on that was like it waspinpoint, perfect.
I thought when they were goingto do that it would be really
jittery, but it was reallyreally awesome.
And also, you know, seeing hergo through that final battle,
one of the famous line at theend, when she goes to to do that

(01:03:01):
she, she says, you know, takeDanny to a safe place and I'll
take care of this bear.
And then then rain says, uh,yeah, he's right, it's magic.
And then eliana says, yeah, ohmy, that.
That line there like obviouslymic drop moment, but that's

(01:03:21):
ripped straight from the demonbear comic book.
That is exactly what she says.
She says I am also magic and shein the comic book is the one
that defeats the demon bear,also because she has the power
to do it with the soul sword,yeah, extremely powerful
artifact that she obviously getsas part of her journey through
limbo, being imprisoned byalaska, alaska through there.
Uh, but yeah, I think that that, that last part, that line, is

(01:03:43):
where she shifted from beingthis vulnerable, childlike,
traumatized, emotionally walledoff, mutant to now.
She's a heroic warrior,grounded in solidarity with the
friends that she's made, andshe's on the journey of
self-acceptance now becauseshe's using her abilities to
help people she loves and alsostepping into that leadership

(01:04:05):
role, exactly, yeah, as probablythe only person who actually
has like, because it seems to melike, as much as she's closed
off, worn off, she has the mostcontrol over her abilities
compared to everyone else.
Yeah, I think that also makessense because in X-Men, lore,
mutants develop their abilitiesthrough a traumatic moment or

(01:04:28):
through puberty, and because shesuffered a traumatic moment so
young, obviously her mutantability is manifested a lot
earlier, giving her more time tomaster them.
So she's definitely in morecontrol of them, for sure, and I
think they portray that reallywell in this new mutants movie.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Yeah, she's that protector and well, another
reason why I think, after theordeal with the spying men,
that's still traumatized though,obviously because, like
anything that happens to youthat young will continue to
traumatize you well intoadulthood the fact that, like
she had this whole sword, likethat that's all part of her
journey.
She had in limbo and like, likeher saying that she's magic is

(01:05:04):
also on the fact that not onlyis she a mutant, she's a
sorceress and has that abilityto use magic which I think
defines for me, even though thatmight not be what they were
going for in my mind that's how,that's what happened to her.
So she had a traumaticexperience when she was younger.

(01:05:24):
Then she had that stint inLimbo, but something might have
happened.
And instead of, like, say, inthe comics where Kitty,
something might have happenedand instead of like, say, in the
comics where kitty pride pullsher out of limbo when she
escapes, she could have beenpulled out and down by, like, dr
reyes yeah, yeah, becausethat's the other thing we're not
got.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
We haven't gotten on any of the characters is how
they actually got to thefacility.
Yeah, and I think is we alljust assume they got there the
same way, danny, they had atraumatic event.
They ended up being unconsciousand then brought to the
facility by a mysterioussuperior who knows when, to find
people when their mutantabilities originate.
So, yeah, I think that that's a.

(01:06:03):
Really.
I also thought the same thingin terms of Eliana's trips to
Limbo.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
I think she also was obviously becoming more
proficient with sorcery whileshe was there as well, and
because I don't see her being inthat facility, since she was
that young age.
Yep, like that for me seemslike for her to be, because that
would have been like,especially if she is that like
16, 17, 18 year old, that wouldbe like what 17, 18-year-old,

(01:06:31):
that would be like what 10, 12years of being in this place,
and like at some point you haveto be like what is this place
again?

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Yeah, I get the feeling from all of them that a
lot of them haven't been therefor very long at all.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Yeah, like Sam would have been the second, probably
earliest, which was Danny.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
He had to have been old enough to work when he'd got
there because obviously hisaccident happened at a work site
in the mineshaft, with hisfather there.
And then, if you're talkingabout Roberto, that was also
another link to the X-Men.
We didn't go through in the setsecrets because his parents are
members of the Hellfire Club,which is basically a really
prominent villain of the X-Men,and their little underling team
is called the Hellions, and theHellions and the New Mutants are

(01:07:13):
like the equivalent of the TeenTitans.
They're bashing each other allthe time.
So that was the little tie-inthere, and apparently Antonio
Banderas was in talks to playhis father until obviously,
sequels didn't come through, butthat would have tied it to the
grand X-Men universe as well.
But, as we were saying, I thinkthat none of them had been

(01:07:33):
there for very long, because ifthey started to figure things
out, it was Danny's arrival thatreally kickstarted it and
really got their suspicionsarisen to the fact that things
aren't right here.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
It was brought on by a demon bear that got them from
nightmare powers, my nightmarepowers, but yeah, yeah, main
question, like, oh, because theywere, it was just a normal
hospital for them before theyrocked up and then, when she
started up and brought thenightmares with her, it sort of
turned into a bit of a hellscapefor him.
Oh, yeah and um yeah, and sortof being ray as being the only

(01:08:12):
person there.
It got too much further.
Handle all these young mutantsthat are now just like no, we
have to get the fuck out of herethat was also suspicious, ray,
as being the only one there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
It was.
Either you know, as deadpoolwould say, the network couldn't
afford another x-man, yeah, oryou know too it was.
It's a secret facility that notmany people know about and
she's there housing these fivemutants on her own.
Like, at what number does theratio increase in supervision to
get two mutants there assupervision?
You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
And the powers being the force field, basically
trapping them in and not lettingothers in.
Yeah, it was more of like ahokay, this is meant to be a
friendly, nice place and you'rebasically trapping these people
here yeah, I, I loved at the endwhen all five of them began
like they had their bags packed,they were walking out together.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
That was very breakfast club as well, yeah,
and you know, at the end ofbreakfast club there's that
thing to do.
Yep, I'm a famous sort ofmoment that's done by by judd n
Nelson in that moment, and Ithought one of them was going to
do it I really did and then yousee Maisie Williams just go and
adjust her hair and I was like,oh, is she no?

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
I thought maybe Roberto would have done it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, or maybe evenSam, I think that Anya
Taylor-Joy's performance in thiswas absolutely amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
I put it down as one of the highlights in my review
for this.
She was really great.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Of all the cast, she was the most closest and
probably the perfect casting forher role.
I agree, like 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Yeah, I agree, if we're going to rate her 5 out of
5.
Oh, 100%, 5 out of 5.
Yeah, couldn't get any better.
All right, let's go on to mycharacter, who is Danny Moonstar
, who is also known as Mirage,who is also known as Psyche and
played by Blue Hunt.
Now, danny Moonstar is aCheyenne woman.
She is also, in the comics, aValkyrie woman and she's also an

(01:10:13):
American and a Krakoan, soshe's always this mutant that's
worn many, many hats in thecomics and she does actually
spend a lot of time in thecomics depowered.
So a lot of the time throughthe early 2000s she is a
depowered mutant but stillallowed to hang around the
mutant facilities as a teacher,so she does get that sort of
respect through there as well.
And then in the latest run, inthe 2019 run, she actually is
repowered and becomes the leaderof the new mutants again and
she's sort of the team's moralcompass and guide and we do

(01:10:34):
start to get a few of thosesorts of uh inclinations in this
movie as well.
But we start this movie withher being the emotional and
narrative center of this movie.
She's the main character andthe demon bear that is rife
throughout.
This movie brings a richcultural and mythological
symbolism to this story thatwe're seeing, and the demon bear

(01:10:56):
is really like a manifestationof both her own grief and also
her powers coming to fruition.
So her powers is that she'sable to manifest the fears and
desires of others into psychicprojections, and sometimes she
can manifest them into physicalprojections as well.
And she actually this character, serves as the catalyst for a

(01:11:17):
lot of the horror elements inthis film.
In the comics, in the 1982comics, she also explores themes
of trauma and identity and Ithink that's also rife
throughout this part of themovie as well.
She's constantly on the runfrom the trauma that she faced
having her tribe be destroyed,and then obviously the guilt

(01:11:41):
associated with the wonderingthat she may be responsible for
that.
So that clashes with heridentity as well in these
moments in the film and createsthis almost fearful, trauma-like
blockade that is represented bythe demon bear that comes out
to get everybody as well.
In the comic books the demonbear is actually afraid of Danny

(01:12:01):
Moonstar and Danny Moonstar isafraid of the demon bear.
So it's that reciprocalrelationship of fear that if you
feed it it grows.
But obviously you are also theonly one who can conquer your
own fears, you can get externalhelp, but through this movie
Danny learns you do needexternal help to be able to
conquer your fears, but in theend it's got to be you that does

(01:12:22):
it as well.
Her role in this movie is almostlike we'll call her the
audience surrogate.
She's the one that learnsthings as we do.
She's the one who drives a lotof the narrative.
She's quiet a lot of the timeand she does create that quick
bond with Rain SinclairWolfsbane as well.
And that relationship is alsoapparent in the comic books as

(01:12:43):
well.
Not a romantic relationship inthe comic books, however.
Josh Boone thought that hewanted to emulate Joss Whedon in
that moment in in the buffyfranchise, where he had a
romantic same-sex relationshipon on screen, but also he he
wanted to dial that relationshipup to you know, 11, you might
say, or up to 10, and you cankind of read it through that

(01:13:05):
lens even in the 80s comics aswell.
But it was always associatedwith the Cheyenne's affinity or
connectedness to nature andanimals and Wolfsbane obviously
being a character that isnatural and native, as a wolf
would be.
But I think I liked theirconnection in this movie.
I thought it felt like a niceplace of comfort and I thought

(01:13:27):
that it was good that sheconnected with Rain Sinclair
early because it gave us as anaudience obviously another bond
for her to have.
But it started to catalyze thefact that these five are
actually getting closer and it'snot just five individuals that
are trying to face theseproblems all by themselves.
And it was interesting to seeas well that Rain Sinclair was

(01:13:48):
like.
She was friends with everybodyBasically.
They all really really reallyliked her with danny.
Her inability to control herfear-based powers is probably
what caused a lot of the chaosin the movie and, yeah, her
journey does represent thatinherited depressed grief but is

(01:14:09):
also like a metaphorical andliteral confrontation with with
fear throughout the movie andshe grapples with survivor's
guilt as well from an unknownunknowable really nature of her
gift.
That occurs and her turningpoint in this movie comes when
she chooses to face the beast atthe end instead of runs from it
.
She's obviously drugged and allher friends stand up for her in

(01:14:31):
that moment, being extremelyloyal and confronting the fear
which is evident in the comicsas well.
But what this movie does thatthe comics don't is that in the
comic books in the Demon Bearrun.
All of Danny Moonstar'steammates defeat the Demon Bear
and Danny wakes up and thanksthem for it, whereas in this
movie they really help her alongthe journey and she's the one

(01:14:54):
that actually gets the couragein the end and transforms her
fear from a destructive forceinto a source of strength, and
she ends up reclaiming agencyover both her powers and her
identity.
So I really like the characterof Danny in this.
I think Blue Hunt played itreally really well.
I don't think she's had manyother roles in movies that I saw

(01:15:15):
.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
No, I don't think so.
Oh, she was in the originals.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
She had a six-episode run in the originals as the
Hollow in Ardu, but before thatnothing really.
And I think that in the comicsat the end of this arc, danny
Moonstar is actually paralyzedfrom trying to attack the bear
on her own and gettingabsolutely mauled for it and a
lot of the last issue.

(01:15:40):
She's obviously in the hospitaland the doctors take the time
to try and fix her up while herfriends battle the demon bear on
her behalf.
But I think that is also a goodmetaphor for trying to go
through these challenges alone,which I think she did a really
good job of sort of coming tothat conclusion in the end.

(01:16:01):
And my favorite quote that shepresented from this movie is the
opening and closing when she'stalking about the two yeah,
that's such a good one, yeah,yeah, yeah.
The two bears from the NativeAmerican proverb where there's
two bears in every person andone is everything that's good
and the other one is everythingthat's evil.

(01:16:21):
And then you know.
That's where the quote stops atthe start of the movie.
But at the end we get the lastbit of the quote where she says
you know which one wins, andthen she says you know which one
wins, and then she says the oneyou feed, yeah, exactly right,
that's such, yeah, that's suchpowerful, yeah, and I think that
epitomizes her arc really,really well and moves her into
that source of strength whichmirrors the comics, where she
ends up being a moral compassand a guide.

(01:16:43):
So I think Danny Moonstar,played by Blue Hunt, really well
done in this movie, and I thinkher journey journey written by
Chris Claremont in the comicsbut also written by Josh Boone
in this movie was very loyal tothe origins and also it adapted
enough for us to see it in a newlight, including elements of
the romance with Rain Sinclairand also elements of her taking

(01:17:06):
agency, of her own journey withthe demon bear.
I liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
But her character in itself, because in the comics
she takes on more of aleadership role?

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Yeah, she does in the later parts of the New Mutants
In the beginning.
It wasn't until this arc, thedemon bear arc, where she really
sort of started to do itafterwards.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
I do like that they're all in the same sort of,
they're all at the same levelon themselves, they're all like
at the same level on themselvesand sort of find that sort of
and do it together Together.
Yeah, yeah, I like that BecauseI don't.
I probably wouldn't have likedit as much if there was someone
who just took charge because,like, whenever there's like, or
whenever you're in a new group,like don't, we'll mainly just go

(01:17:47):
, I'm in charge.
Yeah, like don't, will mainlyjust go, I'm in charge.
Yeah, usually that person islike why the fuck are you in
charge?
Yeah, what gives you the rightto be in charge?
And then the only person Icould see sort of become sort of
like in that leadership rolewas only Ileana at the end,
because she, full on, was justlike everyone, stand back, I'm
going to protect you, I'll fightthe bear, you just get everyone
else in safety.
And it sort of stood up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Yeah, even then, I think leadership comes in many,
many forms and Ileana definitelytakes that protective style of
leadership.
But I think even Rain Sinclairbeing very in touch with
everybody's emotions andfeelings and making sure
everybody's okay and being therewhen people feel like they need
a shoulder to cry and that's aform of leadership as well.
Being the strategic mind in asituation where you know when to
run and you know when to cry,and that's a form of leadership

(01:18:30):
as well.
Being the strategic mind in asituation where you know when to
run and you know when to fight,that's kind of a good element
of leadership as well.
And that's what I love about theX-Men is that every single time
a new book comes out, I love tosee how the writers actually
come up with the way that a teamis made up altogether, and
sometimes they do it by ability.
So they need a big, strong guyand they need somebody that's

(01:18:53):
also got some passive psychicpowers, and then they also need
somebody who has the elementalpower, and sometimes they also
do it by personality, which isthe ones that I like more, and I
think that in this movie, whenthese five characters came
together, and also in the comics, when these five characters
came together, their abilitieswere very niche and when the New
Mutants actually startedstarted, everybody sort of

(01:19:14):
looked at these people with theabilities.
You know danny moon star havingdream projection, because magic
wasn't in the original lineupof the new mutants, so they had
wolfsbane, who could turn into awolf, you had sunspot and you
also had magma, who didn'tappear in the movie but she had
a very similar power set tosunspot as well.
But they were all likeculturally and identified

(01:19:35):
differently and their roleswithin the team were different
as well.
And this is really probably oneof the only and few movies that
I've seen a young cast ofmutants come together and their
team actually feel like a groupof x-men, because the best thing
about x-men is that they don'talways have all the answers, but
they work together, help eachother through their weaknesses,

(01:19:56):
use each other's strengths totry and get to that answer.
And I really liked how the fiveof these kids in this movie,
the New Mutants they actuallydid that and it felt like an
X-Men movie and that's how Iknew Josh Boone was a fan Even
before I read anything about it.
I was like the guy that madethis movie knows X-Men because
he knows how to bring five kidstogether who are struggling
through a trauma and how to leanon each other to achieve a goal

(01:20:17):
.
That's literally the joy ofX-Men, and I really hope other
people either listen to thispodcast or find it somewhere and
give this movie a chance,because it's really, really good
.
I like it.
I love that passion.
Thanks, man.

(01:20:38):
All right, let's go into ourmost valuable takeaway segment.
All right, this is the Heartand Soul of the Podcast, where
we break down the one thing thathit hardest, stuck longest or
taught us something new fromwhat we just watched.
It is our moment to spotlight atakeaway that made us think,
feel or see things differently.
This is what we learned fromthe New Mutants from 2020.
Brash, you're going to takeaway our MVT today because we

(01:20:58):
found that our MVTs often align,so we've decided we'll come up
with a group MVT and we'll talkto you guys about it together.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Yes, yes.
So I think the most fundamentalone and the most obvious mbt
for this film is friendship andbonding, especially um, over
when you're feeling isolated.
And you bond over that sort oftrauma you've all gone through
something and you findconnection in that and um
develop that sort ofrelationship where it's almost

(01:21:30):
like you can't trust anyone butyou found these people that I
can't.
I can trust these people in mylife, sort of bonds.
And I think this movie is for amovie that has a runtime.
The way that these kids bond isit almost seems so, like it
doesn't seem forced, it alwaysseems natural.

(01:21:50):
So, like it doesn't seem forced, it always seems natural.
So danny and rain automaticallyhad this strange like
connection, because rain is justthat's who rain is.
She's just a friendly sort ofbubbly sort of character who is
like, like wants to be friendswith everyone and I think that
comes because of her powers.
She's being cast out as a witch, she was branded by the

(01:22:17):
psychotic reverend and justbeing isolated, she just does
her best to try and befriendpeople and I think, coming into
this, knowing that everyone elsehas powers and is also a mutant
like her, she's sort of like oh, this is my pack.
This is somewhere where I canbelong and that's why she's so

(01:22:39):
friendly and tries to geteveryone else to be a friend and
, as you said, it's sort of likethe heart of the group because
she feels she's being portrayedby those that she thought were
her family and doesn't want tohave that feeling and doesn't
want others to have that feelingand that's why she tries to
like glue everyone together and,um, she straight off hits it

(01:23:02):
with danny and I think that alsobrings up their connection in
the comics, because in thecomics they had that telepathic
connection because of danny'sbackstory and her heritage.
She had that telepathicconnection with um rain, um, and
so that made it a sort of morenatural and easy bond, I think,
for those two in the movie,because they just she's new,

(01:23:24):
she's friendly, she's a newplace where she doesn't know
anyone.
Danny wakes up and handcuffed toa bed and while she's sort of
hesitant around the rest of them, uh, rain sort of is the first
one to extend the hand of likethe help and, especially after
hitting that force field, she'sthe one that's there and helps
her up and then shows her,actually shows her around,
instead of what iliana did toher.

(01:23:45):
I think all of them have gonethrough up, like all of them
have gone through a point andeach of them have gone through,
like all of them have gonethrough a point and each of them
have done something that theyconsider to be extremely bad,
and just that closeness thatthey create is as much as they
closed off throughout the movie.
They start to realize thatthey're all not so different and

(01:24:08):
where they think they're allunique in a bad way, it turns
out that they're all unique in agood way for each other.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Yeah, I agree with that, because I think it felt a
little bit out of place when Ifirst saw it the scene where
they all went to the attic.
But I also think that thatscene was so necessary in this
movie and it was really, reallyawesome because it showed that
these characters were able toget to bond as teenagers and
that's that, that John Hugheselement we were talking about

(01:24:37):
before.
And it was actually said aswell that these five cast
members actually got reallyclose filming this as well,
because they were in a verycreepy setting, a very creepy
situation, and they were.
They were some of them actingfor the first time, some of them
had been in other things, butthey're all learning from each
other, getting to know eachother, while their characters on
screen were getting to knoweach other.

(01:24:57):
So in that manner, it felt veryauthentic in the way that the,
the five characters, were reallystarting to bond and open up
and become vulnerable.
So were the actors, becauseit's a human experience, and I
think that's where it comes tothe MVT of where we're looking
at the importance of friendshipsand not going through something
in isolation if you don't haveto, leaning on others where you

(01:25:19):
can, letting them.
Use your strengths as well,which is very fundamental to the
X-Men but also very fundamentalin this cast of characters.
All five of them have thingsthat they regret, as you said,
but they were still able to seethe human elements of them, see
things that were likable, seethings that they could move
forward with and were able toovercome a very challenging

(01:25:41):
situation together.
Overcome a very challengingsituation together and I think
moments like that they allwalked out that gate together,
which I think was the bestending ever, because if they
walked away staggered or if itwas one after the other, it
wouldn't have hit right, but ifall five of them literally
walked out in a line togetherand I think that was absolutely
symbolic, because each one ofthem got there at a different

(01:26:02):
time at a different place, butthrough that experience they
bonded and were able to getthrough it and then leave as a
group together.
And that togetherness wasimportant for this movie too,
which I really loved from it alltogether, that that importance
of friendship and that thatfight against the, the common
theme as arrived throughout thismovie, and also the feeling of

(01:26:26):
being an outsider, I think wasbig through this as well,
because, as we sort of noted.
All five of them felt like anoutsider, not knowing that all
five of them were feeling theexact same thing Exactly and
that's something that we canlearn about in real life as well
is because you might be feelingsomething that's very, very
strong and very off-putting, butthere's probably lots of people
around that feel that exactsame thing, which is why lots of

(01:26:48):
people tell you, you know, whenyou're going through something
big is to reach out to friendsor find a community group.
That's sometimes the best wayto heal from things is to talk
to people who've gone through asimilar experience to you.
And I think that that feelingof being an outsider is
something that a lot, yeah, alot of people feel, and it's
something that we really need topush towards connecting.

(01:27:09):
And when this movie came out,as well during COVID times,
everybody was feeling like theywere isolated, like they were an
outsider, because a lot oftheir connections had been
severed.
So I think, in that regard,with with this, it might have
been a really good movie to seeduring COVID times, because it
had those themes of ofconnectedness, togetherness,
overcoming something that wasreally big, that felt really big
and you know, uh, you and yoursmall group of people are trying

(01:27:32):
to fight this thing.
That's really, really big.
I just think that everyone wasgoing through it.
Yeah, I think that this felt tome, at least in the character
sense, as more of an x-men moviethan any of the the recent fox
x-men movies.
At the very least, I think so I.
I enjoyed this a lot.
Let's get on to rating it.
Hey, let's, let's see whatwe're.

(01:27:52):
We're gonna write it all.
Right, this is our fandomportals on a board.
It's the time that we rate itand rank it.
Each host gives the movie ascore out of five and then we
take the average and add it toour official letterboxd on a
board.
If you want to follow that, youcan find and track our rankings
anytime at Letterboxd, which isat fandomportals.
So, brash, I'll go first forthis one.

(01:28:15):
I gave this a four out of five,but I kind of want to give it a
4.5.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
I was going to say I was going to give it a 4.5.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
I think it does have some very like we talked about.
I think it does have somepretty obvious flaws, but I
think what it lacks it kind ofmakes up for in the things that
it does really well in terms ofbeing an X-Men movie, yeah.
So I'm going to proudly givethis a 4.5.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
Yeah so am I Like?
To me it hits all the marks.
Yeah, there are things that aremissing, that were forced to be
taken out because of um, thedifficulties at the time it was
being filmed at the um, theproblems or the issues that come
with the changing of theownership of the companies.
Yep, it's low budget, lowbudget, yeah, fairly low budget

(01:28:57):
for um, for a superhero movie,definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
And even with that, it's still like their cgi was
like the bear was fuckingamazing, absolutely the lighting
when it pushed through, likethere was like a fluoro light
that hit just on its nose andyou could see it like light up
the the bear in just a fashion,and you could see the snowflakes
flicking down on it and then inother elements you just saw the
red light of the eyes justprotruding through.
Really well done, lockheed.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Amazing, yeah, so cute, um, but yeah, um, I I
honestly, besides like knowingwhat other things could have
been in the movie, I think iswhat half is the thing that's
like?
Oh, he has people to trackingit because if I didn't know that
all these other things aregoing to be the movie, well

(01:29:41):
could have been in potentiallyin the movie.
Bums me a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
I think for this one.
I obviously do know that thereare some elements to this that
are not a 4.5 movie, but I thinkoverall, when you're talking
about the tone and the feel ofit and the way that it connected
with me and the way that itpaid tribute to its origins as
an X-Men book this is the 13thmovie in the Fox X-Men universe.

(01:30:09):
It's the last one.
It's the coda of that franchiseand a lot of people say that it
wasn't done well, but I thinkthat was the truest iteration of
an X-Men team on screen thatI've seen yet.
So for me it's a 4.5.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Yeah, yeah, I could not agree more.
So for me it's a 4.5.
Yeah, yeah, I could not agreemore.
Yeah, the only way I could haveseen this being a getting
probably a solid fight isprobably if it had the like John
Hamm's sinister.
That would be, yeah, I couldjust having John Hamm's sinister
.
That would have just made itfire straight away, like even if
he was only in it for like asecond, like even at the very
end when, like they walk out,and then they could have like a

(01:30:43):
post cut for the scene where yousee Dr Sinister there and he
has because Dr S has been takingblood from the kids, yeah, or
he's looking at the securitycameras yeah, like the old
security cameras and you justsee like a backward shot.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
Oh man, we should have wrote this Like a backward
shot of Mr Sinister in his chairlooking at the kids walking out
of the gate, and then theperspective changes so the kids
aren't seen on the TV anymore,like it's still there.
But you see in the reflectionthe red eyes and the diamond of
Dr Sinister, john Hamm and hisface, and then just like a smile
.
That would have been perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Yeah, yeah, holy shit .
And then I was like fuck Five,five, good, all right, 5.5, 5.5
let's put it on our board, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
So our current position right now number one,
we have the crow that sits in anaverage of 4.25 and with our
scores of 4.5 and 4.5, thisactually becomes our new winner
on the Phantom Force honor board.
It topped the crow and thenobviously, second, phantom of
the Opera, but I'm happy with itto sit there, brash, if you are

(01:31:44):
, I am yeah.
Yeah, yes, it's controversial,but I think this connected with
me really really well and I'mjustified in my decision.
I will fight off all the haterswith a soul sword.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
And I have for me, especially with comics like
Marvel, dc, the other groups,not the main groups.
The other groups I always lovethe other groups.
Same, I never read the Slagshiptitle.
Yeah, your New Mutants, yourDefenders, your S-Force, x
-Files, lava, runaways I lovethe Runaways.

(01:32:19):
And then you got Floken Daggeryeah, I love the Misfitsfits
brad.
Oh yeah, it's just, I lovethose characters.
Those are always like turningmy face, like I always have.
Like one character I love fromlike the main groups, like
hawkeye is like one of myfavorite characters of all time.
Yeah, these are, these are myjam, like miss marvel and
squirrel girl and oh, yeah,those ones.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
I feel like they have to rely on the character being
likeable or relatable in someway over people liking that
character because theirabilities are cool, cool as shit
.
Yeah, yeah, and that's why Ithink I, at least I relate to
them more, because I feel liketheir characters are more
developed, as opposed to uslooking at panels and panels and
panels of them blowing up allthese different facilities
because they've got awesomelightning powers or something.
Yeah, I'd much rather be about.

(01:33:04):
Yeah, looking at you, thor,with your big new storm.
Yeah, dive storm is actuallypretty fucking awesome I'd much
rather read about, you know, acharacter that turns into a wolf
, that has this terriblytraumatic backstory, that finds
connection with teenagers,something similar like I.
All right, it's official, brash.
We've put it at the very top ofour fandom portals.
On a board it sits at numberone, toppling the crow.
After many, many weeks of itsitting there, I wasn't sure

(01:33:26):
that was going to get topped.
For a long time, bro, I wasn'tsure either, because it's
obviously a very good movie,like cult classic status, but I
think we've found it Alright.
Let's get on to our final.
Alright, that has been thisepisode of the Phantom Portals
podcast featuring the NewMutants from 2020.

(01:33:46):
We have a new leader on thePhantom Portals on a board list,
guys, it is the New Mutants.
All right, if you are enjoyingthis, make sure you tell a
friend about this podcast.
Tell a friend that some peopleon the internet have rated the
New Mutants higher than the Crow.
Go and tell them.
Let them know we're happy toanswer their emails.
Our email is fandomportals atgmailcom.

(01:34:07):
If you have any questions aboutthe show or if you want to
recommend a movie for us, makesure you email us there too.
It is marvel month, guys, sothat means all our content for
this month will be marvelrelated.
Next week, brash, go and tellthem doing we are doing
guardians three.
Yes, we're doing.
Guardians of the galaxy threeanother found family flick, I
think to prepare for this brash,I'm just gonna watch all three

(01:34:29):
yeah, and as much as I do on newmutants.
We might have a new.
We might have a new winner.
Maybe you'll have to tune inand see guys, you have to tune
in it depends on how.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
It depends on how I feel watching it, because I've
only watched it once before same.

Speaker 2 (01:34:44):
I only watched it once.
In movie theaters and cinemasSame Same.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Because there's a part in that movie that I really
loved and it was really sad andI was full on crying.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
So yeah, yeah.
Well, it depends how it sits.
Now I think, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
Now I'm watching it again and I have that same
feeling as when I was, Becausethat's how I felt with the first
Guardians, Because the firstGuardians was fucking amazing.
When I first watched that I'mlike no other Marvel movie will
ever top this movie.
And then I watched it again andI'm like, oh yeah, it's pretty
good.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
Yeah, it came at the perfect time for me.
It did, because I was like I'mback.
I think it was.
Yeah, it was like a revival andit just revamped.
Miles was like it is going tobe Guardians of the Galaxy 3 by
James Gunn.
That is going to be next.
Guys, make sure you tune in tothat next week, and while you're
waiting for that episode tocome out, you should go on over

(01:35:35):
to our website, which iswwwfandomportalspodcastcom.
It's in the show notes below.
If you don't like typing, youcan click instead and you can
see our website.
At our website, there is thisawesome thing called a mailing
list.
We won't email you too often.
We'll just send you onenewsletter a month, but in that
newsletter you'll also be thefirst to know about any
giveaways that we are doing.
And guess what?
Brash, we're doing a giveaway.

(01:35:55):
We're doing a giveaway.
We're doing a giveaway rightnow.
We're doing one.
All right, if you want to sendyour family or even yeah, or
yourself four times to themovies, then you can join our
giveaway by joining our mailinglist, which is on our website,
and all you have to do after youjoin our mailing list is hope
that Brash and I get four morepoints in our Fandom Facts

(01:36:15):
Face-Off across two weeks.
Very doable, very doable, verydoable.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
We might have to bump up our questions because, yeah,
we smashed our.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
Too knowledgeable.
Too knowledgeable, alright, sodefinitely go and check out that
website, guys.
Check out that mailing list.
Sign on if you love movies andyou want to get sent to one for
free.
This has been Aaron for thePhantom Portals podcast and this
is Brash.
Keep learning, keep growing,keep loving fandoms.
Bye guys, bye guys, bye.

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New Mutants (2020) - Are Horror and Superheroes a Perfect Match? Transformation through Connection with the New Mutants

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}New Mutants (2020) - Are Horror and Superheroes a Perfect Match? Transformation through Connection with the New Mutants