October 13, 2025 • 44 mins
Discover what makes romance and cozy mysteries two of the most successful and reader-loved genres in publishing.
In this episode of The Fantasy Writers’ Toolshed, host Richie Billing sits down with bestselling authors Jami Albright and Sara Rosett to uncover what all writers can learn from these powerfully engaging genres.
Jami Albright is an acclaimed romance author known for her laugh-out-loud romantic comedies and bestselling indie success stories. Sara Rosett is a prolific cozy mystery writer whose books are filled with charm, suspense, and unforgettable characters.
Together, they share a wealth of knowledge on writing craft, book marketing, and building a long-term career as an independent author.
We explore:
How to write a book series that keeps readers coming back — from character arcs to emotional payoffs.
The secrets of romance and cozy mystery writing, including reader expectations, tone, pacing, and genre tropes that build loyal audiences.
Worldbuilding techniques that keep continuity consistent across multiple novels.
How to plan a successful book launch and make your release stand out in a crowded market.
Developing an author brand that feels authentic and memorable.
Book marketing strategies that actually work — from mailing lists and newsletters to podcast appearances, social media engagement, and creative promotions.
Writing productivity and mindset tips to help authors finish series and sustain momentum.
This conversation goes beyond genre to deliver universal lessons for storytellers. Whether you write fantasy, science fiction, romance, or thrillers, you’ll gain actionable advice on how to design stories that hook readers, market your books effectively, and build a lasting author career.
Key takeaways:
Learn how romance and cozy mystery writers use structure, reader satisfaction, and emotional beats to keep fans invested.
Understand why character-driven plots and series planning can transform your writing into a sustainable career.
Discover how to create a strong author identity that readers instantly recognise.
Find out how Jami and Sara approach marketing, launches, and branding from a professional and personal perspective.
If you’ve ever wondered how to write a romance novel, how to start a cozy mystery series, or simply how to build a loyal readership, this episode is packed with real-world experience and practical strategies.
FANTASY WRITING BOOKS, CLASSES AND TOOLS
https://www.patreon.com/TheFantasyWritersToolshed
JOIN OUR DISCORD COMMUNITY
https://mailchi.mp/395aa89d6ec0/join-richie-billings-community-of-writers
ABOUT JAMI ALBRIGHT
https://wishidknownforwriters.com/
ABOUT SARA ROSETT
GET IN TOUCH
thefantasywriterstoolshed@gmail.com
www.richiebilling.com
RESOURCES
Discover more writing tips and guides here
And learn more about writing fantasy here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Fantasy Writers
Tool Shed. I'm your host, Richie Billing,
and today I'm delighted to be joined by the hosts of the
brilliant Wish I'd Known Then podcast series and two brilliant
writers in their own right, Sarah Rosette and Jamie
Albright. Welcome to the show.
Well, thank you. We're happy to be here.
(00:31):
We are. Thank you very much for joining
me. I was fortunate enough to be a
guest on your show not long ago.We had a great chat because I've
spoken for a lot longer I'm sure, and that's why we decided
to hook up again. Really a good interest that
we've never covered on the show before.
Sarah understands that you're you've written a book on how to
(00:51):
write a series. We've never covered writing
series and like fantasy is obsessed with like mega long
series. So yeah, sounds perfect.
And Jamie, you are a bit of a whizz on the market in front,
especially for book launches. I try, yeah.
No, we are going to talk all about that today.
But to start with, it'd be nice for you to both introduce
(01:16):
yourselves to any listeners who may be unfamiliar with you and
your work. We'd like to go first.
I'll go. I write mysteries.
I write. Currently I'm writing a 1920s
historical mystery. I've always loved mysteries and
that's kind of where I spent my whole career.
I started out in cozy mystery. I just enjoy the puzzle aspect
(01:38):
of it. And my books now are more
reminiscent of like a Agatha Christie type whodunit said in
the past. In England, they're usually
country house mysteries and I'vedone a couple spin offs.
I've done some other series thatare like cozy adjacent, I guess
you'd say. I have a travel mystery series
that's cozy adjacent. So my book that I wrote was like
(02:01):
everything that I learned about writing a series I put into the
book so that other people wouldn't have to figure all this
stuff out on their own, hopefully.
And I live in Texas, I'm married, I have two grown kids.
I like to watch K dramas and Jane Austen adaptations and
that's about it. It's really hot here, so we
(02:22):
spend a lot of time indoors, so watching TV is a great hobby,
yeah. Exactly exactly and I'm I'm
Jamie Albright and I write smalltown Texas ROM coms.
They are I have two different series. 1 is a runaway bride
series and the other is just a small set in a small town sports
(02:45):
ROM com. I have, I also do author
consulting and I leave some moreworkshops.
And yeah, I like, I actually like to watch British mysteries.
That's kind of my thing. I don't write them and I I
(03:06):
probably never would because I don't think I'm smart enough to
do that. But those, those are the, those
are the things I like. I'm married.
I from Texas too. We both live in Houston and
we've been doing the podcast forabout what, five years now?
(03:28):
Yeah, we started in 2020. Yeah, accidentally.
Yeah, accidentally in 2020 and then yeah, I'm a mom, got grown
kids and I have 6 grandkids. So yeah, a lot going on, yeah.
And it both writing genres whichhave had a nice bit of a spike
(03:49):
of popularity over the last few years.
How have you how have you found sort of the I mean, romance is
probably the most popular genre at the moment.
Cosy mysteries a massive spike as well, especially ovary.
What was like Richard Osmond's books are like cosy mysteries?
Or are they? I think they have the tone of a
(04:11):
cozy mystery. Some of the elements are not
quite, but I think a cozy readerwould enjoy them, so they're
not. If you read that and then you go
looking for something exactly like it, you're probably not
gonna find it. I feel like it's one of those
that kind of pulls in a bunch ofdifferent elements, so it
appeals to a really broad spectrum of people, but the tone
is very cozy. Nice.
(04:32):
It's interesting because what Sarah writes now is different
from Cozy's. It's still a mystery and it's
still what's, what's the word I'm looking for?
It's a gentler. It's a gentler kind of mystery,
but but it's it's not cozy. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, there's like you know how every genre once you
(04:53):
get kind of down in the weeds, it gets very granular.
And so mine, I would say, are more, they're some of those
classified as traditional mysteries.
And cozies lately is going more towards super light, lots of
cats and dogs and cooking. And I mean, that seems to be
what people think of now or in the past it was more general,
you know, now it's getting more divided out, granular.
(05:17):
Yeah. So yeah, mine are more
traditional mysteries with some fun elements in them, but not as
light as some cozies. Right.
It's great, isn't it? Like how genres change and and
that's why I love fantasy so much is because you can bring in
all these different things like romances.
(05:37):
Huge cosy fantasy is also. Huge.
Yes, that's booming. Yeah.
So in terms of fight, I was thinking, because we've got got
two sides, experts, both sides, and we've got you both write
series, Marcus, and generally comes after the writing is done.
(05:58):
So I think it'd be a good place to start with this, the series
writing. And so as as specialists in
series books, what do you think the allure is in in writing this
prolonged story? I've speak to so many fantasy
writers and like especially new writers.
(06:18):
I was one of them. It's that you don't just plan
one book in your mind. Oh God, I'm going to write a
book, right? I'm going to write a five book
series. Yes, that's what people do.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I think readers love goingback to a familiar place.
And if you create, especially inCosy Mystery and the mysteries I
(06:42):
write, people want to escape theworld and all that's going on.
And so they want to go to this place that is like a, a, a cute
little town. It's safe even though there's a
murder. It's a more an intellectual
puzzle in a lot of cozies and mysteries.
And so they want to return to this place where they know the
characters, they're familiar, they like the setting, the
atmosphere, the tone, and then they get to see the characters
(07:05):
change over time. You know, people fall in love
and get married and they have people, you know, that become a
found family. And I think that's what draws
people back a lot. Even like in Jamie's books,
they're a link series, not necessarily the same main
character. Would you say it's the same?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's in romance, the standalones
(07:30):
in a series, which they're all set in the same place.
They have the same characters weaving through it, but each
book has a different hero and heroine.
So that. But people love that because
they love to revisit those characters from the earlier
books, but also the shared worlds.
(07:53):
Like you can branch off and havea like in mind.
If I were to do that, I could have a totally different town,
but they still come back to the other town occasionally, or
people from that town come to their new town.
And. And that's a great way to expand
a series. Yeah.
Yeah, when I think about the thethe series I've read and sort of
(08:16):
race through, probably like one of the most recent ones was
historical fiction 1. And it was about this character
called Aram Nestos of Platon. And he was sort of like a semi
historical figure, but he was quite instrumental in the story
to defeating the Persians. And, and you just want to, you
see him grow up and then you obviously 5 or 6 books in, you
(08:40):
want to see this final battle with the Persians and see what
happens in the end. And like you say, it's that
character and that journey and that that change the
development, the whole arc. It just you're hooked so much,
doesn't it? Yeah, you really do.
Yeah. Yeah, you really get ghosted.
I mean, yeah. My favorite fantasy is Game of
Thrones. It's like of too many
(09:01):
characters. Probably it's the characters
that keep you invested, isn't it?
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
And that was one thing that I I had to learn over time.
I was so worried, like Jamie wassaying, mysteries are hard to
write. And I was so worried about the
plot and making it make sense and having good clues and the
Mr. X. But then the thing that readers
talk about is the characters. And that's what they want.
(09:24):
Especially like in in mystery, if you have a romantic subplot,
they really want those characters to get together, but
they really don't, you know, like, they they they like the
tension, but they wanted to get together.
But as the author, you want to drag it out as long as you can,
at least in my series. Jamie's series are different
because romance is different. That would be like fighting
words if they didn't get at the end.
(09:46):
Exactly. So what do you think is the most
important elements to write in asuccessful series of books?
I think you need to know what kind of series you want to
write, and I didn't even realizethere were different kinds of
series when I started. I, I read mostly cozy because
that was my favorite and I was like, OK, I'm writing a cozy
(10:08):
mystery, so of course it's a series, but I didn't think at
all about future books 'cause you know that it was a big
hurdle just to finish one book. So when I got done with that, I
was like, oh, OK, so. She's got to.
Be involved in another mystery and with a cozy, you're dealing
with an amateur sleuth. And the longer the series goes
on, the harder and harder it becomes to get her involved in a
mystery in a logical way, 'causeyou know, you might stumble
(10:31):
across a body, but to find, you know, 5 to 10, that's like a
lot. And then and then you're doing
the Oh well, her friend found the body or somebody has been
unjustly accused. So it just gets harder and
harder. So if you can, think about how
you can set it up in the beginning so that you can
continue the series. And it doesn't have to be
mystery. Like any genre you need to
(10:51):
figure out is your series open-ended or is it closed like.
Like a flat arched character is perfect for a long running
series that you don't really have plans to turn off anytime
soon. Like a Perot, a Miss Marple.
Jack Reacher. Yeah, they, they kind of drop
in, they do their thing and thenthey go on.
And it's easy to extend that 'cause you're not, you don't
(11:14):
have such a big character arc with them.
But if you have a protagonist that's doing this huge project
and they achieve their goal, then does the series end there
after 2345 books? You know, if you want to
continue it, you have to give them a new goal, change
something. So like if you can figure out
what, what structure you want touse and certain genres learn
(11:36):
more towards certain structures.I've like mystery leans towards
this really open-ended flat art character, whereas maybe science
fiction and fantasy is more likea robust art where the character
goes on this journey, completes it, and then the series ends.
So I think if you can have that in mind, that helps a lot.
And I think romance is similar, right?
(11:58):
It's similar. I would.
I would. Yeah, I would.
First of all, it's hard when youfinish that book and you're
like, oh, good, I finished a book.
Oh, gosh. I mean, I probably need more
books. And if you don't bake that into
the first one as far as characters, or at least for some
foreshadowing or something, it'shard then to carry it through.
(12:21):
But I think one of the most important things in this series
is having something that the readers can connect to.
In a series like Sarah writes, it's the main character, you
know, it's it's our protagonist.In series like I write, it's the
town and some of the people in the town.
Like in My Bride series, I have an Aunt Honey and Aunt Honey is
(12:45):
in all the books and she's very flamboyant and crazy, but also
the town itself is a character in a lot of ways.
So if you if you write a series,if you write a series, like a
standalone in a series or standalones in a series where
you don't have that one consistent character going
through, if you can create side characters that are consistent
(13:07):
or like I've read some books that were like a football team
was the the consistent thing or like a club is the consistent
thing throughout all the books and all the characters kind of
come in and out of that. But there has there needs to be
some consistency, if some time to really tie the whole thing
(13:29):
together. Interesting what you're saying.
What side characters? Because sometimes they can steal
the show altogether. Yeah, they can.
You have to be very careful. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. So then that opens new doors
then, doesn't it, For you to go span this series in an
interesting way? Yeah, it might be.
Writers go wrong when it comes to writing series.
(13:51):
I mean, we've said the most important elements, but what do
you think the biggest mistakes are?
Because the last thing you want to do as a writer is commit
yourself to hundreds of thousands of words only for
people. Yeah, Yeah.
I think sometimes if you limit like you need to have a world
big enough that you can support a series and whether that's like
the town they live in or maybe it's a theme you want to
(14:13):
explore. Like if you want to write about
somebody who's a rare book collector or something like
that, there are endless stories or art, you know, there's
endless missing paintings that you could have for your theme
that will run through your series.
But if you make your world too small, you may explore
everything in, you know, two or three books.
And then you're like, man, I just don't know if but you there
(14:37):
are ways to solve that. Like you could bring in some new
characters, you could give your protagonist a new interest or
hobby that will launch them on this other new arc of things to
explore. But I think that can be a
problem. Can't think of any more.
That I'm not planning ahead. I mean, we already said that,
(14:57):
but but not really planning ahead.
I think that's can be a problem.I think not sticking with the
series longer than you should. You know, if you've got a couple
of books out, three books out and the series hasn't really
gone anywhere, then cut your losses and start a new series.
(15:19):
You know that that's one of the big issues.
People hang on to series, I think longer than they should.
And sometimes people do that because the series is selling
and their readers want more. Hardly ever do readers say, oh,
no, I'm done with that. You know, if they love a series,
they want more. And so you people, I know
authors keep writing in the sameseries when they really their
(15:39):
heart is really not in it and they want to do something else.
And so sometimes it might be better just to wrap that up and,
you know, write a spin off with one of those characters that's
so interesting that hopefully your readers would follow them.
I mean, you know, that's a, you know, there's a risk in doing
that, but it might be better foryou creatively because if you
(16:02):
write something that you don't like, it's going to be just
drudgery. Yeah, you sound like a chore.
So in in your experience that I'm writing series, what what do
you think is being the best piece of advice that you've
found or that you've implemented?
Make sure that you've sort of ticked all the boxes.
You've you've done things like you said Jamie about like
(16:25):
foreshadowing, making sure that you invest people in the next
book. I'm, I'm going to answer this by
saying the thing that I did thatI didn't do that I should have
done. Don't be like me.
So my bride series, they're fivebooks.
In those five books, there's a rock star, there's a a former
(16:48):
child star, there's a millionaire, and there's a
country music star and then the DA.
But you know, some pretty famouspeople live in this tiny small
town. Well, when I was thinking about
doing the next series, I createdan entire Newtown and an entire
(17:11):
new place in Texas far away frommy original town, so that
there's no overlap at all. And I should, because I thought,
well, I can't have a famous football player from the same
small town. I mean, why are all these famous
people people flocking to this town?
That was a huge mistake. I should have 100% done that
(17:34):
because readers would have lovedit.
I was thinking logically and notemotionally and emotionally.
My readers would have loved thatbecause they would get to see
the other characters, even though this was a new series.
So that's what I should have. I should have made the second
(17:58):
Series A spin off of the first in one some way or another.
And I didn't do that. So that's the thing you should
not do. And and now it's too late.
I mean, I've set, I've created this entire world in the second
series and I can't change it to fix, you know, and fix it.
(18:19):
I just have this second series. Yeah.
I, I might, could cause one's inNorth Texas, one's in South
Texas. I could maybe meet them in the
middle somewhere. And yeah.
Have some overlap there. Yeah, yeah.
Texas is big enough I could do it.
But yeah, that's for me. I think that had I done that, I
(18:41):
would have seen more read through because people that read
My Bride's books go on to read the other series.
But a lot of times people that read the other series don't go
on to read My Bride's books as much.
So I think I would have had moreread through had I done that.
What about you say? What do you say?
(19:02):
Well, I would say I think I stumbled into this.
I didn't read it or plan it, butin my most recent series, I
decided I'm I don't I can't planout like a long series.
Like my brain can't handle it. Even when I'm writing a book, I
can only handle like a little portion at a time.
Like I'll know the whole art kind of, but I can't do the
whole thing. So I can't do you know, A10 book
(19:24):
outline of this is what I'm going to do for the next 10
books. But what I decided to do is,
like, I would have a plan for the first three books would have
a general theme of, like, the main character's name is Olive.
And, you know, she figures out that she's good at solving
mysteries in the first three books.
And then, and I was like, OK, ifthe series does well, I can
continue it. And so then it did.
(19:45):
And so then like the next three books, I was like, I thought,
OK, if the first three books do well, then the next three can be
about her, you know, taking on cases from family and friends.
And then the next three books can be she's becoming more of a
professional detective for people that she doesn't know or
bring her cases. And even just that little like
organizational thing in my mind helped me figure out kind of how
(20:08):
her arc would go. And it was enough that I could
kind of stay within it and give it, you know, how to leeway
enough that I could change it. And it also gave me a point that
I could end it if it wasn't going well.
And you and I didn't want like it.
I didn't want readers to not be happy.
And wondering, oh, what happened?
You know, I left them hanging, you know, at book 4.
(20:29):
And it really that arch needed two more books, you know, to
close out. So that, to me, has helped me a
lot. When I think about the series
now, I think, OK, three books and then we'll see where we're
going from here. Nice.
Yeah. It's a great answer, yeah.
So I think we've done a good jobon the series front.
So let's say our series is written.
(20:51):
Now it's time to get out to the world.
One of the biggest challenges weall face as writers, and
especially if we go down the independent routers, is getting
out there and finding the right people.
So Jamie, this is your area. Yeah.
Well, I was fortunate. You said you need to write the
(21:14):
book and then marketing comes. And I would sort of disagree
with you on that because I thinkyou need to think about
marketing when you're writing your book and because you need
to be thinking about who this book is for.
The worst thing anybody can say to me when when I'm doing
consulting is, you know, if I ask them, well, what genre does
(21:35):
your book fall in or, you know, something like that?
And they say, well, it's like nothing anyone's ever read
before. And I'm like, oh, Dang it,
that's not good. Because it needs to be readers
like similar but different. They like the familiar.
And so when you're writing, it needs to be similar enough to
(21:58):
the other books in the genre you're writing in to for them to
be comfortable and then different enough that they go,
oh, that's fun. And that's tricky.
You know, that's hard. But so when you're writing, you
need to be thinking about who amI writing for?
I would also say building a newsletter before you release
(22:21):
100% will change the trajectory of your writing career.
I did. I was able to do that with just
a preview of my book, and I had 1200 people on my newsletter
before the book released. And I knew that at least those
(22:41):
1200 people wanted my book. If no one else bought it, those
1200 people were interested in my book.
But what happened was because they were the right readers,
they were ROM com readers. When they started buying the
book, it populated my also bots with the other ROM com books
(23:02):
that they had written and that told Amazon who to send my book
to. So it it told them told Amazon
to send my book to other ROM comreaders.
And because of that, that book stayed very sticky at A at
between 1003 thousand in the in the Amazon store for six months
(23:28):
until the 2nd book came out. And then I mean it continued but
without anything from me except some very small ads.
It stayed in that in that space because Amazon was delivering it
to the right people and showing it to the right people.
So really understanding genre, understanding reader
(23:53):
expectations within that genre while you're writing is so
important because once then you can present this book to those
readers and say this is exactly what you want.
This is exactly what you want, and know that you're fulfilling
that promise. So do you kind of hone in on
(24:15):
similar books that are popular or similar authors like the?
Yeah, I mean, you know, I know what they do.
I don't, you know, I don't thinkI copied them, but we, but I
understand what they're doing. Like I'll look at their blurbs
and I'll, I'll adjust my blurbs to the blurbs in the top 50, you
(24:35):
know, especially the top 20. If, if my blurb doesn't look
like theirs or, or have the samesort of tone as theirs, then I,
I adjust it because I know that's what readers are looking
for. And I've changed my blurbs
multiple times mostly because ofthat, because things change.
(24:55):
Like when I started writing backin 2017 when I put out Running
from a Rock Star, I wrote that book in third person, close POV
so. But now most romances in ROM
coms are written in first person.
(25:16):
Usually first person present. But first person past is pretty
common too. So the the later books that I
wrote, the 2 the new series is written in first person.
And did you notice the difference then?
No, I don't notice the difference at all.
I mean, and people will even sayI didn't realize your book was
third person because it's very close POV and so I don't think
(25:41):
people really notice it. Also, like Lucy Score, who is
very big in in my genre, she writes a lot of her books still
in third person. So, you know, it just depends.
Yeah, I would say romance changes so much faster, I think
than a lot of other genres. So I don't think I've changed.
I've updated my blurbs over time, You know, I'll go back and
(26:04):
look at them and think, oh, that's these can be tightened
up. But I haven't changed the the
mystery seems to be pretty standard.
Whereas I think romance, like romance covers have changed
quite a bit now they're much more illustrated, right.
And so you want, you have to keep have more of an eye on that
I think than I do. Right, right.
Yeah, I do. And probably even more than like
(26:27):
fantasy fantasy's pretty much, you know, I don't know that it
changes that much. I read a lot of fantasy though.
I don't know that it I, I haven't noticed a lot of changes
in the way the stories are told.But yeah.
So that's, that's really the biggest thing I think I would
(26:48):
tell people is for marketing is like when you first start
writing, you're kind of just writing, you don't know, but but
before you, I mean, as you're refining that book, do it with
the reader in mind, because we're, we're not writing for us.
We're writing for our reader andwe are not our reader.
(27:10):
And that is a big thing to remember too, that things that
may turn us off like e-mail lists, you know, we don't like
to, I don't want emails. I don't want people sending me
emails. Well, that's not how your reader
feels. If your reader signs up for your
newsletter, they want to hear from you.
That's important. And so because of that, you need
to be sending an e-mail regularly.
(27:33):
And you know, it's everyone willtell you your e-mail list is
your most valued tool because itis, you know, every I've sent
out thousands of emails over thelast almost eight years or eight
years. And every time I send out an
(27:54):
e-mail, I sell books every time.And so, and there are people
that have been on my list since 2017.
So it's you can't just assume because someone is on your
e-mail list or in your Facebook group that they've read all your
books. Yeah, people see things at
different times, don't they? Yeah, they do.
(28:16):
Yeah. And.
So e-mail plays a central role in in what you do.
So have you got any advice for anyone who's looking to grow
their? E-mail, yeah, I would, I would
say offer. The best thing that I've ever
done to, to grow my list is offer like in Romans, a second
epilogue. So at the end of my first book,
(28:39):
it's, you know, the bookends. I don't put the end.
I tell people never put the end.You skip down, you know, you
come down a space or two spaces.You can put a little scene break
like I do 3 asterisks sometimes,but sometimes I don't.
Sometimes I just come down and it says at the end of the first
book. If you want to know what happens
(29:01):
to Scarlett and Gavin a year later, click here.
It involves a hot rock star, a naked trip to the barn and the
Baptist preacher. And who's not going to click
that? So they click and to get that
extra and it is just a scene. It's a 1500 word scene.
To get that, they have to give me their e-mail list.
(29:21):
And they know that. I mean, it's it's clear.
Yeah, and I use book Funnel for that.
Yeah. So I, I've used second
epilogues, I've used deleted scenes.
My deleted scenes have always done really well for growing my
e-mail, e-mail list. And those are things we already
have, you know, just if you delete something, never throw it
(29:42):
away. Stick it in a folder because you
you can use it later. That's really.
Nice idea. I've never ever seen anyone use
the deleted teams people. You're given something extra
that you're not getting. Anywhere else yeah.
And if you, if you said, like for me in the book that I use
it, it have you that I use it inI, there's they talk about what
(30:03):
happened at the wedding. Well, what Oh, let's not talk
about it. You know, they, they allude to
what happened to the wedding allthroughout the book.
And I had written it, but to, touse it, I would have had to
done, I would have had to do a, a pretty big flashback.
And I don't like flashbacks. So I chose to take it out and
(30:24):
just talk about it. And they eventually talk about
some of what happened, but you get to see the whole thing in
the deleted scene. So people really like that
research material. I know a lot of historical
authors will use research material maps.
(30:46):
What are some other things? Well, I was going to say like
for cozies, like recipes, if yougive away recipes or some people
do like a little cookbook of different things from the the
stories. For me, I've focused more on
giveaways to get readers. And I mean, you could, you know,
(31:07):
do this at the back of the book too.
And you could drive people to a page where they can sign up and
you'd have a continuum giveaway.I did that for a while where you
could sign up and you, you know,could get a get being entered in
this giveaway that I think once a month I was giving away the
box set, ebook box set. But I've done a lot of like
Goodreads giveaways, library thing giveaways just to get the
(31:30):
word out. So that's like more towards like
you. I was trying to draw people to
the series. So I once I had several books, I
would do a giveaway and just give away book one for free to
get people in and get them on mylist.
Yeah. In exchange, you know, you sign
up for my list, you can get, youknow, a free download of this
book. You can do that with a short
(31:51):
story, too. I did a short story for a while
until I had more books in the series because I did the same
thing with. There's a little throwaway line
about, well, you know, Oliver's very clever.
She figured out that thing with ladies, Sophia Sapphires.
And so I have this little short story, ladies, Sophia the
sapphires. And it's kind of how like her
first unofficial case, you know,so people would read that in
(32:15):
book 1 and then they would think, oh, I want to get on the
list. So I could use that as A at the
end of the book, you know, for people to sign up to get to find
out the story that they hadn't wasn't included in the main
story. Or I can do it as a giveaway,
you know, in the beginning to get people, give them the short
story to get them to buy the book.
And then later I just switch to giving away the book because I
(32:38):
feel like that's an even better giveaway, as if you give me a
whole. Book I I have AI, you know, have
a free novella on my website that I give away for people to
sign up as well. So if you go to my website, it
says if you want a free a free book, then you can click here.
And so to get it, they have to sign up.
(32:59):
Well, I had a, a book that I didn't have an A second
epilogue. I was actually pretty sick of
those characters by the time I finished, and I didn't want to
write anything about them anymore.
So I offered the free novella atthe end of the book because new
people to me would not have seenthat novella.
(33:20):
And so it was just a way to use it in two places.
So yeah, you can do that. I've done, you know, the book,
book funnel, newsletter builders.
Those are great too. I think that the readers coming
from there are not just there for the freebie.
(33:40):
They'll they're pretty good. There are some others that we've
used, but yeah, so I think that those are those are just good
ways to to get people on your list.
And I will say this, so at the at the end of my book, you've
got the hey ghost, go read this novella.
(34:04):
And then right after that, no scene break, no nothing.
Just if you want to read the first chapter of the next book,
click here and it takes them or keep reading.
And so it takes it, they can read the first chapter of the
next book. And at the end of that, there's
the buy link or the pre-order link for the next book.
(34:25):
Nice. But if they click away and go
read my second epilogue, they probably aren't going to come
back to the book to read this first chapter.
So at the end of my second epilogue I have the 1st chapter
of the next book with the pre-order link and buy link in
that so that they don't have to click back.
(34:47):
But I'm still getting them to click that pre-order link,
whether they go one place or theother.
It's. Like creating a little
ecosystem. Yeah, it is ecosystem.
Yeah, that's. Brilliant.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So something else that is quite
I find quite interesting is rather than the idea of of
promoting books, is the idea of building your offer brand.
(35:11):
Because at the end of the day, it's it's you down writing the
books, it's the reader who sort of attaches themselves to to
yourself. So what do you think about this
sort of idea of creating an author brand, and how would you
recommend writers go about sort of developing that?
Well, this is what I say about brand.
Your brand is the promise you'remaking your reader and if your
(35:33):
brand does not fulfil that promise, then you've let your
reader down. So if I'm telling my readers
that I write sexy swoonies, pee your pants, funny small town ROM
coms and I don't deliver that, then I don't know.
I mean, then I've lost their trust and I've lost them as a
(35:54):
reader. So I feel like that that is the
first thing you need to rememberis that your brand is your
promise. So whatever your and if you
promise this as an author, you deliver that in every book that
you write. Now, does that mean you are
stuck in one genre? Not necessarily because I'm
(36:17):
right now writing a book outsideof ROM com.
It's it's not even a romance. It's a women's fiction or maybe
even a book club fiction book. But it is, you know, Steel
Magnolias and Dukes of Hazzard had a baby.
This book would be that. So it's still funny.
(36:38):
It's still swoony in some ways. It's still very emotional.
And so I will have to change my kind of tagline branding because
I'm not going to change my name.No, I'm not.
I'm going to keep it under my name because I think it's close
enough that that it's still, I still fulfill the promise of, of
giving readers an emotional, funny book that kind of hits all
(37:03):
the fields. So but you need to think about
that and you just need to think about what is the promise you're
making your reader. And then after you've decided
what that promise is, you just fulfill it every time you write
and you fulfill it every time you write anything at Facebook,
post your newsletter, a social media, you know, a Tik Toker,
(37:26):
Instagram, all of those things should fall in line under that
promise that you've made your reader.
Yes, it's a good, very good philosophy.
Yeah. So what do you think about that?
I would add you probably want tothink about visuals and I am not
good at graphics and things likethat.
I took a course one time pretty recently and one of the things
(37:48):
that was so helpful to me was there was one of the exercises
was make a list of words that describe your, your tone, your
style, what you want to convey, and then find images that show
that. And that was so hard because,
you know, a word like, like for me, my books, I feel like
(38:10):
they're puzzling. They're atmospheric, they're
light hearted, elegant, you know, I want to appeal to that
type of reader. He wants that.
And that's what my visuals had to show.
And I, I found some images and Ishowed them, you know, we were
in like a Zoom thing. And the woman looked at them and
she said, OK, these are too dark.
(38:31):
If you, if your books are light hearted and mystery, you know,
tends to, you know, they tend tohave like a, a darker cast or
it's like the crime scene tape and blood spatter.
She's like, you want to go bright and light?
And I was like, oh, OK, So once I understood that, then I could
apply that even in my amateur efforts and I could tell people
who were creating graphics for me, you know, it needs to be
(38:52):
light and bright and to show that that's the tone.
And I think that's, and I carry that across everything.
So I've done the 1920s mysteriesand I've done a spin off that's
set in Egypt. Those are my most recent books.
And they still have that really bright, colorful feel to them,
even though they're different main character.
(39:14):
My readers will look at that andthey'll go, OK, this is similar
to what she's written before. Even though it's slightly
different, it's still the same tone.
And visually it lets them, I think it makes them feel
comfortable. So I think if you can figure out
like what images and colors, perhaps shades convey what you
want, that can really help. And it helps when I'm creating
(39:37):
something or looking at different things, I can go, OK,
not this, not this, not this, but yes, this one.
These are too dark. These are these are lighter,
these are brighter. Let's go with these.
It just I need that kind of A orB eliminate these to help me.
And and things like that help give you guardrails as you're
riding because if you if you arefound yourself veering off and
(40:02):
crashing through those guardrails to go darker or
whatever, then you maybe one haven't understood what you.
You know what your brand is. And two, you might need to beer
pull it back onto the road and get it between those guardrails
again so it it can help you whenyou're riding.
(40:24):
Yeah, that's a fantastic bit of advice and I've one I've never
tried and it's something I am going to try is to write that
list of words and see if it matches the.
See what you come up with. I have a feeling mine's too dark
as well. Well, I mean, it can be dark if
that's if that's the kind of thing you're writing, like dark.
(40:45):
Fantasy, yeah. So that's OK.
I can wait with that a bit. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, well, thank you very much, Julian, Sir.
It's been absolutely fantastic with you both.
And you, you've shared some fantastic insights.
So all different sides of writing.
It's so it's ridiculous how muchwe've got to know.
Terrible. It's crazy, but it's nice to to
(41:07):
bring in the perspectives from other genres which are really
popular at the moment and and tohear how you are adapting to
sort of your readers expectations, which, which did
you change an awful lot. So it's it's fantastic and thank
you very much. I really appreciate it.
Sure. Thanks for having.
Me. Yeah, it's been great.
(41:27):
The best place to If anyone wants to learn more about you
and your books, where's the bestplace for them to go?
You mean it is? I'm on Amazon, I'm in KU and all
my books are in KU on Amazon. My website isjamiealbright.com
and that's JAMI no E so jamiealbright.com and I also do
(41:53):
author consulting. So there's on my website it says
author consulting or author services, something like that.
If you click on that, you can book a session with me.
I'd love to help, very. Nice.
And my website is Sarah rosette.com.
It's just SARAROS ett.com. If you want to buy my books, I
(42:17):
have a bookstore, which is SarahRosette books.com.
If you're interested in the series book that's available
everywhere. I'm wide with all my books.
So if you want 1920 books, if you want the how to write a
series that's available. It's also available in audiobook
and also in libraries. You can find it there like in
(42:38):
Hoopla or something like that. And don't forget the podcast,
which I know then where you can find us.
So we have a lot of things wherewe're different, like Jamie's
and KU and I'm wide and we talk about a lot of different things
and different ways to do things,and the differences in writing
are different genres. That's what we should do then.
Yeah, we, we, we talked to a lotof authors, very successful
(43:00):
authors and authors that have just started out at about what
they wish they'd known and how and industry professionals about
what they wish they'd known about working with authors.
So yeah. And what they wish authors knew
about their platforms. So yeah, that's.
The it's nice to see the the contrasting approaches because
(43:22):
you say the more experiments writers try and the test the
waters to see what works, the more we all learn.
It's a great idea. Yeah.
Thank you very much again. You're welcome.
Thank you everyone home for listening.
Thank you for listening to the Fantasy Writers Tool Shed.
If you'd like to join our writing community on Discord and
(43:42):
get access to fantasy writing classes and books on Patreon,
check the links in the description.
And if you don't want to miss any future episodes, be sure to
follow or subscribe. And to support the show, leave a
quick rating on Spotify or iTunes and share this episode on
social media or with anyone who you think may be interested.
(44:03):
Thank you very much for listening.
Enjoy the show.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Fantasy Writers
Tool Shed. I'm your host, Richie Billing,
and today I'm delighted to be joined by the hosts of the
brilliant Wish I'd Known Then podcast series and two brilliant
writers in their own right, Sarah Rosette and Jamie
Albright. Welcome to the show.
Well, thank you. We're happy to be here.
(00:31):
We are. Thank you very much for joining
me. I was fortunate enough to be a
guest on your show not long ago.We had a great chat because I've
spoken for a lot longer I'm sure, and that's why we decided
to hook up again. Really a good interest that
we've never covered on the show before.
Sarah understands that you're you've written a book on how to
(00:51):
write a series. We've never covered writing
series and like fantasy is obsessed with like mega long
series. So yeah, sounds perfect.
And Jamie, you are a bit of a whizz on the market in front,
especially for book launches. I try, yeah.
No, we are going to talk all about that today.
But to start with, it'd be nice for you to both introduce
(01:16):
yourselves to any listeners who may be unfamiliar with you and
your work. We'd like to go first.
I'll go. I write mysteries.
I write. Currently I'm writing a 1920s
historical mystery. I've always loved mysteries and
that's kind of where I spent my whole career.
I started out in cozy mystery. I just enjoy the puzzle aspect
(01:38):
of it. And my books now are more
reminiscent of like a Agatha Christie type whodunit said in
the past. In England, they're usually
country house mysteries and I'vedone a couple spin offs.
I've done some other series thatare like cozy adjacent, I guess
you'd say. I have a travel mystery series
that's cozy adjacent. So my book that I wrote was like
(02:01):
everything that I learned about writing a series I put into the
book so that other people wouldn't have to figure all this
stuff out on their own, hopefully.
And I live in Texas, I'm married, I have two grown kids.
I like to watch K dramas and Jane Austen adaptations and
that's about it. It's really hot here, so we
(02:22):
spend a lot of time indoors, so watching TV is a great hobby,
yeah. Exactly exactly and I'm I'm
Jamie Albright and I write smalltown Texas ROM coms.
They are I have two different series. 1 is a runaway bride
series and the other is just a small set in a small town sports
(02:45):
ROM com. I have, I also do author
consulting and I leave some moreworkshops.
And yeah, I like, I actually like to watch British mysteries.
That's kind of my thing. I don't write them and I I
(03:06):
probably never would because I don't think I'm smart enough to
do that. But those, those are the, those
are the things I like. I'm married.
I from Texas too. We both live in Houston and
we've been doing the podcast forabout what, five years now?
(03:28):
Yeah, we started in 2020. Yeah, accidentally.
Yeah, accidentally in 2020 and then yeah, I'm a mom, got grown
kids and I have 6 grandkids. So yeah, a lot going on, yeah.
And it both writing genres whichhave had a nice bit of a spike
(03:49):
of popularity over the last few years.
How have you how have you found sort of the I mean, romance is
probably the most popular genre at the moment.
Cosy mysteries a massive spike as well, especially ovary.
What was like Richard Osmond's books are like cosy mysteries?
Or are they? I think they have the tone of a
(04:11):
cozy mystery. Some of the elements are not
quite, but I think a cozy readerwould enjoy them, so they're
not. If you read that and then you go
looking for something exactly like it, you're probably not
gonna find it. I feel like it's one of those
that kind of pulls in a bunch ofdifferent elements, so it
appeals to a really broad spectrum of people, but the tone
is very cozy. Nice.
(04:32):
It's interesting because what Sarah writes now is different
from Cozy's. It's still a mystery and it's
still what's, what's the word I'm looking for?
It's a gentler. It's a gentler kind of mystery,
but but it's it's not cozy. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, there's like you know how every genre once you
(04:53):
get kind of down in the weeds, it gets very granular.
And so mine, I would say, are more, they're some of those
classified as traditional mysteries.
And cozies lately is going more towards super light, lots of
cats and dogs and cooking. And I mean, that seems to be
what people think of now or in the past it was more general,
you know, now it's getting more divided out, granular.
(05:17):
Yeah. So yeah, mine are more
traditional mysteries with some fun elements in them, but not as
light as some cozies. Right.
It's great, isn't it? Like how genres change and and
that's why I love fantasy so much is because you can bring in
all these different things like romances.
(05:37):
Huge cosy fantasy is also. Huge.
Yes, that's booming. Yeah.
So in terms of fight, I was thinking, because we've got got
two sides, experts, both sides, and we've got you both write
series, Marcus, and generally comes after the writing is done.
(05:58):
So I think it'd be a good place to start with this, the series
writing. And so as as specialists in
series books, what do you think the allure is in in writing this
prolonged story? I've speak to so many fantasy
writers and like especially new writers.
(06:18):
I was one of them. It's that you don't just plan
one book in your mind. Oh God, I'm going to write a
book, right? I'm going to write a five book
series. Yes, that's what people do.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I think readers love goingback to a familiar place.
And if you create, especially inCosy Mystery and the mysteries I
(06:42):
write, people want to escape theworld and all that's going on.
And so they want to go to this place that is like a, a, a cute
little town. It's safe even though there's a
murder. It's a more an intellectual
puzzle in a lot of cozies and mysteries.
And so they want to return to this place where they know the
characters, they're familiar, they like the setting, the
atmosphere, the tone, and then they get to see the characters
(07:05):
change over time. You know, people fall in love
and get married and they have people, you know, that become a
found family. And I think that's what draws
people back a lot. Even like in Jamie's books,
they're a link series, not necessarily the same main
character. Would you say it's the same?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's in romance, the standalones
(07:30):
in a series, which they're all set in the same place.
They have the same characters weaving through it, but each
book has a different hero and heroine.
So that. But people love that because
they love to revisit those characters from the earlier
books, but also the shared worlds.
(07:53):
Like you can branch off and havea like in mind.
If I were to do that, I could have a totally different town,
but they still come back to the other town occasionally, or
people from that town come to their new town.
And. And that's a great way to expand
a series. Yeah.
Yeah, when I think about the thethe series I've read and sort of
(08:16):
race through, probably like one of the most recent ones was
historical fiction 1. And it was about this character
called Aram Nestos of Platon. And he was sort of like a semi
historical figure, but he was quite instrumental in the story
to defeating the Persians. And, and you just want to, you
see him grow up and then you obviously 5 or 6 books in, you
(08:40):
want to see this final battle with the Persians and see what
happens in the end. And like you say, it's that
character and that journey and that that change the
development, the whole arc. It just you're hooked so much,
doesn't it? Yeah, you really do.
Yeah. Yeah, you really get ghosted.
I mean, yeah. My favorite fantasy is Game of
Thrones. It's like of too many
(09:01):
characters. Probably it's the characters
that keep you invested, isn't it?
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
And that was one thing that I I had to learn over time.
I was so worried, like Jamie wassaying, mysteries are hard to
write. And I was so worried about the
plot and making it make sense and having good clues and the
Mr. X. But then the thing that readers
talk about is the characters. And that's what they want.
(09:24):
Especially like in in mystery, if you have a romantic subplot,
they really want those characters to get together, but
they really don't, you know, like, they they they like the
tension, but they wanted to get together.
But as the author, you want to drag it out as long as you can,
at least in my series. Jamie's series are different
because romance is different. That would be like fighting
words if they didn't get at the end.
(09:46):
Exactly. So what do you think is the most
important elements to write in asuccessful series of books?
I think you need to know what kind of series you want to
write, and I didn't even realizethere were different kinds of
series when I started. I, I read mostly cozy because
that was my favorite and I was like, OK, I'm writing a cozy
(10:08):
mystery, so of course it's a series, but I didn't think at
all about future books 'cause you know that it was a big
hurdle just to finish one book. So when I got done with that, I
was like, oh, OK, so. She's got to.
Be involved in another mystery and with a cozy, you're dealing
with an amateur sleuth. And the longer the series goes
on, the harder and harder it becomes to get her involved in a
mystery in a logical way, 'causeyou know, you might stumble
(10:31):
across a body, but to find, you know, 5 to 10, that's like a
lot. And then and then you're doing
the Oh well, her friend found the body or somebody has been
unjustly accused. So it just gets harder and
harder. So if you can, think about how
you can set it up in the beginning so that you can
continue the series. And it doesn't have to be
mystery. Like any genre you need to
(10:51):
figure out is your series open-ended or is it closed like.
Like a flat arched character is perfect for a long running
series that you don't really have plans to turn off anytime
soon. Like a Perot, a Miss Marple.
Jack Reacher. Yeah, they, they kind of drop
in, they do their thing and thenthey go on.
And it's easy to extend that 'cause you're not, you don't
(11:14):
have such a big character arc with them.
But if you have a protagonist that's doing this huge project
and they achieve their goal, then does the series end there
after 2345 books? You know, if you want to
continue it, you have to give them a new goal, change
something. So like if you can figure out
what, what structure you want touse and certain genres learn
(11:36):
more towards certain structures.I've like mystery leans towards
this really open-ended flat art character, whereas maybe science
fiction and fantasy is more likea robust art where the character
goes on this journey, completes it, and then the series ends.
So I think if you can have that in mind, that helps a lot.
And I think romance is similar, right?
(11:58):
It's similar. I would.
I would. Yeah, I would.
First of all, it's hard when youfinish that book and you're
like, oh, good, I finished a book.
Oh, gosh. I mean, I probably need more
books. And if you don't bake that into
the first one as far as characters, or at least for some
foreshadowing or something, it'shard then to carry it through.
(12:21):
But I think one of the most important things in this series
is having something that the readers can connect to.
In a series like Sarah writes, it's the main character, you
know, it's it's our protagonist.In series like I write, it's the
town and some of the people in the town.
Like in My Bride series, I have an Aunt Honey and Aunt Honey is
(12:45):
in all the books and she's very flamboyant and crazy, but also
the town itself is a character in a lot of ways.
So if you if you write a series,if you write a series, like a
standalone in a series or standalones in a series where
you don't have that one consistent character going
through, if you can create side characters that are consistent
(13:07):
or like I've read some books that were like a football team
was the the consistent thing or like a club is the consistent
thing throughout all the books and all the characters kind of
come in and out of that. But there has there needs to be
some consistency, if some time to really tie the whole thing
(13:29):
together. Interesting what you're saying.
What side characters? Because sometimes they can steal
the show altogether. Yeah, they can.
You have to be very careful. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. So then that opens new doors
then, doesn't it, For you to go span this series in an
interesting way? Yeah, it might be.
Writers go wrong when it comes to writing series.
(13:51):
I mean, we've said the most important elements, but what do
you think the biggest mistakes are?
Because the last thing you want to do as a writer is commit
yourself to hundreds of thousands of words only for
people. Yeah, Yeah.
I think sometimes if you limit like you need to have a world
big enough that you can support a series and whether that's like
the town they live in or maybe it's a theme you want to
(14:13):
explore. Like if you want to write about
somebody who's a rare book collector or something like
that, there are endless stories or art, you know, there's
endless missing paintings that you could have for your theme
that will run through your series.
But if you make your world too small, you may explore
everything in, you know, two or three books.
And then you're like, man, I just don't know if but you there
(14:37):
are ways to solve that. Like you could bring in some new
characters, you could give your protagonist a new interest or
hobby that will launch them on this other new arc of things to
explore. But I think that can be a
problem. Can't think of any more.
That I'm not planning ahead. I mean, we already said that,
(14:57):
but but not really planning ahead.
I think that's can be a problem.I think not sticking with the
series longer than you should. You know, if you've got a couple
of books out, three books out and the series hasn't really
gone anywhere, then cut your losses and start a new series.
(15:19):
You know that that's one of the big issues.
People hang on to series, I think longer than they should.
And sometimes people do that because the series is selling
and their readers want more. Hardly ever do readers say, oh,
no, I'm done with that. You know, if they love a series,
they want more. And so you people, I know
authors keep writing in the sameseries when they really their
(15:39):
heart is really not in it and they want to do something else.
And so sometimes it might be better just to wrap that up and,
you know, write a spin off with one of those characters that's
so interesting that hopefully your readers would follow them.
I mean, you know, that's a, you know, there's a risk in doing
that, but it might be better foryou creatively because if you
(16:02):
write something that you don't like, it's going to be just
drudgery. Yeah, you sound like a chore.
So in in your experience that I'm writing series, what what do
you think is being the best piece of advice that you've
found or that you've implemented?
Make sure that you've sort of ticked all the boxes.
You've you've done things like you said Jamie about like
(16:25):
foreshadowing, making sure that you invest people in the next
book. I'm, I'm going to answer this by
saying the thing that I did thatI didn't do that I should have
done. Don't be like me.
So my bride series, they're fivebooks.
In those five books, there's a rock star, there's a a former
(16:48):
child star, there's a millionaire, and there's a
country music star and then the DA.
But you know, some pretty famouspeople live in this tiny small
town. Well, when I was thinking about
doing the next series, I createdan entire Newtown and an entire
(17:11):
new place in Texas far away frommy original town, so that
there's no overlap at all. And I should, because I thought,
well, I can't have a famous football player from the same
small town. I mean, why are all these famous
people people flocking to this town?
That was a huge mistake. I should have 100% done that
(17:34):
because readers would have lovedit.
I was thinking logically and notemotionally and emotionally.
My readers would have loved thatbecause they would get to see
the other characters, even though this was a new series.
So that's what I should have. I should have made the second
(17:58):
Series A spin off of the first in one some way or another.
And I didn't do that. So that's the thing you should
not do. And and now it's too late.
I mean, I've set, I've created this entire world in the second
series and I can't change it to fix, you know, and fix it.
(18:19):
I just have this second series. Yeah.
I, I might, could cause one's inNorth Texas, one's in South
Texas. I could maybe meet them in the
middle somewhere. And yeah.
Have some overlap there. Yeah, yeah.
Texas is big enough I could do it.
But yeah, that's for me. I think that had I done that, I
(18:41):
would have seen more read through because people that read
My Bride's books go on to read the other series.
But a lot of times people that read the other series don't go
on to read My Bride's books as much.
So I think I would have had moreread through had I done that.
What about you say? What do you say?
(19:02):
Well, I would say I think I stumbled into this.
I didn't read it or plan it, butin my most recent series, I
decided I'm I don't I can't planout like a long series.
Like my brain can't handle it. Even when I'm writing a book, I
can only handle like a little portion at a time.
Like I'll know the whole art kind of, but I can't do the
whole thing. So I can't do you know, A10 book
(19:24):
outline of this is what I'm going to do for the next 10
books. But what I decided to do is,
like, I would have a plan for the first three books would have
a general theme of, like, the main character's name is Olive.
And, you know, she figures out that she's good at solving
mysteries in the first three books.
And then, and I was like, OK, ifthe series does well, I can
continue it. And so then it did.
(19:45):
And so then like the next three books, I was like, I thought,
OK, if the first three books do well, then the next three can be
about her, you know, taking on cases from family and friends.
And then the next three books can be she's becoming more of a
professional detective for people that she doesn't know or
bring her cases. And even just that little like
organizational thing in my mind helped me figure out kind of how
(20:08):
her arc would go. And it was enough that I could
kind of stay within it and give it, you know, how to leeway
enough that I could change it. And it also gave me a point that
I could end it if it wasn't going well.
And you and I didn't want like it.
I didn't want readers to not be happy.
And wondering, oh, what happened?
You know, I left them hanging, you know, at book 4.
(20:29):
And it really that arch needed two more books, you know, to
close out. So that, to me, has helped me a
lot. When I think about the series
now, I think, OK, three books and then we'll see where we're
going from here. Nice.
Yeah. It's a great answer, yeah.
So I think we've done a good jobon the series front.
So let's say our series is written.
(20:51):
Now it's time to get out to the world.
One of the biggest challenges weall face as writers, and
especially if we go down the independent routers, is getting
out there and finding the right people.
So Jamie, this is your area. Yeah.
Well, I was fortunate. You said you need to write the
(21:14):
book and then marketing comes. And I would sort of disagree
with you on that because I thinkyou need to think about
marketing when you're writing your book and because you need
to be thinking about who this book is for.
The worst thing anybody can say to me when when I'm doing
consulting is, you know, if I ask them, well, what genre does
(21:35):
your book fall in or, you know, something like that?
And they say, well, it's like nothing anyone's ever read
before. And I'm like, oh, Dang it,
that's not good. Because it needs to be readers
like similar but different. They like the familiar.
And so when you're writing, it needs to be similar enough to
(21:58):
the other books in the genre you're writing in to for them to
be comfortable and then different enough that they go,
oh, that's fun. And that's tricky.
You know, that's hard. But so when you're writing, you
need to be thinking about who amI writing for?
I would also say building a newsletter before you release
(22:21):
100% will change the trajectory of your writing career.
I did. I was able to do that with just
a preview of my book, and I had 1200 people on my newsletter
before the book released. And I knew that at least those
(22:41):
1200 people wanted my book. If no one else bought it, those
1200 people were interested in my book.
But what happened was because they were the right readers,
they were ROM com readers. When they started buying the
book, it populated my also bots with the other ROM com books
(23:02):
that they had written and that told Amazon who to send my book
to. So it it told them told Amazon
to send my book to other ROM comreaders.
And because of that, that book stayed very sticky at A at
between 1003 thousand in the in the Amazon store for six months
(23:28):
until the 2nd book came out. And then I mean it continued but
without anything from me except some very small ads.
It stayed in that in that space because Amazon was delivering it
to the right people and showing it to the right people.
So really understanding genre, understanding reader
(23:53):
expectations within that genre while you're writing is so
important because once then you can present this book to those
readers and say this is exactly what you want.
This is exactly what you want, and know that you're fulfilling
that promise. So do you kind of hone in on
(24:15):
similar books that are popular or similar authors like the?
Yeah, I mean, you know, I know what they do.
I don't, you know, I don't thinkI copied them, but we, but I
understand what they're doing. Like I'll look at their blurbs
and I'll, I'll adjust my blurbs to the blurbs in the top 50, you
(24:35):
know, especially the top 20. If, if my blurb doesn't look
like theirs or, or have the samesort of tone as theirs, then I,
I adjust it because I know that's what readers are looking
for. And I've changed my blurbs
multiple times mostly because ofthat, because things change.
(24:55):
Like when I started writing backin 2017 when I put out Running
from a Rock Star, I wrote that book in third person, close POV
so. But now most romances in ROM
coms are written in first person.
(25:16):
Usually first person present. But first person past is pretty
common too. So the the later books that I
wrote, the 2 the new series is written in first person.
And did you notice the difference then?
No, I don't notice the difference at all.
I mean, and people will even sayI didn't realize your book was
third person because it's very close POV and so I don't think
(25:41):
people really notice it. Also, like Lucy Score, who is
very big in in my genre, she writes a lot of her books still
in third person. So, you know, it just depends.
Yeah, I would say romance changes so much faster, I think
than a lot of other genres. So I don't think I've changed.
I've updated my blurbs over time, You know, I'll go back and
(26:04):
look at them and think, oh, that's these can be tightened
up. But I haven't changed the the
mystery seems to be pretty standard.
Whereas I think romance, like romance covers have changed
quite a bit now they're much more illustrated, right.
And so you want, you have to keep have more of an eye on that
I think than I do. Right, right.
Yeah, I do. And probably even more than like
(26:27):
fantasy fantasy's pretty much, you know, I don't know that it
changes that much. I read a lot of fantasy though.
I don't know that it I, I haven't noticed a lot of changes
in the way the stories are told.But yeah.
So that's, that's really the biggest thing I think I would
(26:48):
tell people is for marketing is like when you first start
writing, you're kind of just writing, you don't know, but but
before you, I mean, as you're refining that book, do it with
the reader in mind, because we're, we're not writing for us.
We're writing for our reader andwe are not our reader.
(27:10):
And that is a big thing to remember too, that things that
may turn us off like e-mail lists, you know, we don't like
to, I don't want emails. I don't want people sending me
emails. Well, that's not how your reader
feels. If your reader signs up for your
newsletter, they want to hear from you.
That's important. And so because of that, you need
to be sending an e-mail regularly.
(27:33):
And you know, it's everyone willtell you your e-mail list is
your most valued tool because itis, you know, every I've sent
out thousands of emails over thelast almost eight years or eight
years. And every time I send out an
(27:54):
e-mail, I sell books every time.And so, and there are people
that have been on my list since 2017.
So it's you can't just assume because someone is on your
e-mail list or in your Facebook group that they've read all your
books. Yeah, people see things at
different times, don't they? Yeah, they do.
(28:16):
Yeah. And.
So e-mail plays a central role in in what you do.
So have you got any advice for anyone who's looking to grow
their? E-mail, yeah, I would, I would
say offer. The best thing that I've ever
done to, to grow my list is offer like in Romans, a second
epilogue. So at the end of my first book,
(28:39):
it's, you know, the bookends. I don't put the end.
I tell people never put the end.You skip down, you know, you
come down a space or two spaces.You can put a little scene break
like I do 3 asterisks sometimes,but sometimes I don't.
Sometimes I just come down and it says at the end of the first
book. If you want to know what happens
(29:01):
to Scarlett and Gavin a year later, click here.
It involves a hot rock star, a naked trip to the barn and the
Baptist preacher. And who's not going to click
that? So they click and to get that
extra and it is just a scene. It's a 1500 word scene.
To get that, they have to give me their e-mail list.
(29:21):
And they know that. I mean, it's it's clear.
Yeah, and I use book Funnel for that.
Yeah. So I, I've used second
epilogues, I've used deleted scenes.
My deleted scenes have always done really well for growing my
e-mail, e-mail list. And those are things we already
have, you know, just if you delete something, never throw it
(29:42):
away. Stick it in a folder because you
you can use it later. That's really.
Nice idea. I've never ever seen anyone use
the deleted teams people. You're given something extra
that you're not getting. Anywhere else yeah.
And if you, if you said, like for me in the book that I use
it, it have you that I use it inI, there's they talk about what
(30:03):
happened at the wedding. Well, what Oh, let's not talk
about it. You know, they, they allude to
what happened to the wedding allthroughout the book.
And I had written it, but to, touse it, I would have had to
done, I would have had to do a, a pretty big flashback.
And I don't like flashbacks. So I chose to take it out and
(30:24):
just talk about it. And they eventually talk about
some of what happened, but you get to see the whole thing in
the deleted scene. So people really like that
research material. I know a lot of historical
authors will use research material maps.
(30:46):
What are some other things? Well, I was going to say like
for cozies, like recipes, if yougive away recipes or some people
do like a little cookbook of different things from the the
stories. For me, I've focused more on
giveaways to get readers. And I mean, you could, you know,
(31:07):
do this at the back of the book too.
And you could drive people to a page where they can sign up and
you'd have a continuum giveaway.I did that for a while where you
could sign up and you, you know,could get a get being entered in
this giveaway that I think once a month I was giving away the
box set, ebook box set. But I've done a lot of like
Goodreads giveaways, library thing giveaways just to get the
(31:30):
word out. So that's like more towards like
you. I was trying to draw people to
the series. So I once I had several books, I
would do a giveaway and just give away book one for free to
get people in and get them on mylist.
Yeah. In exchange, you know, you sign
up for my list, you can get, youknow, a free download of this
book. You can do that with a short
(31:51):
story, too. I did a short story for a while
until I had more books in the series because I did the same
thing with. There's a little throwaway line
about, well, you know, Oliver's very clever.
She figured out that thing with ladies, Sophia Sapphires.
And so I have this little short story, ladies, Sophia the
sapphires. And it's kind of how like her
first unofficial case, you know,so people would read that in
(32:15):
book 1 and then they would think, oh, I want to get on the
list. So I could use that as A at the
end of the book, you know, for people to sign up to get to find
out the story that they hadn't wasn't included in the main
story. Or I can do it as a giveaway,
you know, in the beginning to get people, give them the short
story to get them to buy the book.
And then later I just switch to giving away the book because I
(32:38):
feel like that's an even better giveaway, as if you give me a
whole. Book I I have AI, you know, have
a free novella on my website that I give away for people to
sign up as well. So if you go to my website, it
says if you want a free a free book, then you can click here.
And so to get it, they have to sign up.
(32:59):
Well, I had a, a book that I didn't have an A second
epilogue. I was actually pretty sick of
those characters by the time I finished, and I didn't want to
write anything about them anymore.
So I offered the free novella atthe end of the book because new
people to me would not have seenthat novella.
(33:20):
And so it was just a way to use it in two places.
So yeah, you can do that. I've done, you know, the book,
book funnel, newsletter builders.
Those are great too. I think that the readers coming
from there are not just there for the freebie.
(33:40):
They'll they're pretty good. There are some others that we've
used, but yeah, so I think that those are those are just good
ways to to get people on your list.
And I will say this, so at the at the end of my book, you've
got the hey ghost, go read this novella.
(34:04):
And then right after that, no scene break, no nothing.
Just if you want to read the first chapter of the next book,
click here and it takes them or keep reading.
And so it takes it, they can read the first chapter of the
next book. And at the end of that, there's
the buy link or the pre-order link for the next book.
(34:25):
Nice. But if they click away and go
read my second epilogue, they probably aren't going to come
back to the book to read this first chapter.
So at the end of my second epilogue I have the 1st chapter
of the next book with the pre-order link and buy link in
that so that they don't have to click back.
(34:47):
But I'm still getting them to click that pre-order link,
whether they go one place or theother.
It's. Like creating a little
ecosystem. Yeah, it is ecosystem.
Yeah, that's. Brilliant.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So something else that is quite
I find quite interesting is rather than the idea of of
promoting books, is the idea of building your offer brand.
(35:11):
Because at the end of the day, it's it's you down writing the
books, it's the reader who sort of attaches themselves to to
yourself. So what do you think about this
sort of idea of creating an author brand, and how would you
recommend writers go about sort of developing that?
Well, this is what I say about brand.
Your brand is the promise you'remaking your reader and if your
(35:33):
brand does not fulfil that promise, then you've let your
reader down. So if I'm telling my readers
that I write sexy swoonies, pee your pants, funny small town ROM
coms and I don't deliver that, then I don't know.
I mean, then I've lost their trust and I've lost them as a
(35:54):
reader. So I feel like that that is the
first thing you need to rememberis that your brand is your
promise. So whatever your and if you
promise this as an author, you deliver that in every book that
you write. Now, does that mean you are
stuck in one genre? Not necessarily because I'm
(36:17):
right now writing a book outsideof ROM com.
It's it's not even a romance. It's a women's fiction or maybe
even a book club fiction book. But it is, you know, Steel
Magnolias and Dukes of Hazzard had a baby.
This book would be that. So it's still funny.
(36:38):
It's still swoony in some ways. It's still very emotional.
And so I will have to change my kind of tagline branding because
I'm not going to change my name.No, I'm not.
I'm going to keep it under my name because I think it's close
enough that that it's still, I still fulfill the promise of, of
giving readers an emotional, funny book that kind of hits all
(37:03):
the fields. So but you need to think about
that and you just need to think about what is the promise you're
making your reader. And then after you've decided
what that promise is, you just fulfill it every time you write
and you fulfill it every time you write anything at Facebook,
post your newsletter, a social media, you know, a Tik Toker,
(37:26):
Instagram, all of those things should fall in line under that
promise that you've made your reader.
Yes, it's a good, very good philosophy.
Yeah. So what do you think about that?
I would add you probably want tothink about visuals and I am not
good at graphics and things likethat.
I took a course one time pretty recently and one of the things
(37:48):
that was so helpful to me was there was one of the exercises
was make a list of words that describe your, your tone, your
style, what you want to convey, and then find images that show
that. And that was so hard because,
you know, a word like, like for me, my books, I feel like
(38:10):
they're puzzling. They're atmospheric, they're
light hearted, elegant, you know, I want to appeal to that
type of reader. He wants that.
And that's what my visuals had to show.
And I, I found some images and Ishowed them, you know, we were
in like a Zoom thing. And the woman looked at them and
she said, OK, these are too dark.
(38:31):
If you, if your books are light hearted and mystery, you know,
tends to, you know, they tend tohave like a, a darker cast or
it's like the crime scene tape and blood spatter.
She's like, you want to go bright and light?
And I was like, oh, OK, So once I understood that, then I could
apply that even in my amateur efforts and I could tell people
who were creating graphics for me, you know, it needs to be
(38:52):
light and bright and to show that that's the tone.
And I think that's, and I carry that across everything.
So I've done the 1920s mysteriesand I've done a spin off that's
set in Egypt. Those are my most recent books.
And they still have that really bright, colorful feel to them,
even though they're different main character.
(39:14):
My readers will look at that andthey'll go, OK, this is similar
to what she's written before. Even though it's slightly
different, it's still the same tone.
And visually it lets them, I think it makes them feel
comfortable. So I think if you can figure out
like what images and colors, perhaps shades convey what you
want, that can really help. And it helps when I'm creating
(39:37):
something or looking at different things, I can go, OK,
not this, not this, not this, but yes, this one.
These are too dark. These are these are lighter,
these are brighter. Let's go with these.
It just I need that kind of A orB eliminate these to help me.
And and things like that help give you guardrails as you're
riding because if you if you arefound yourself veering off and
(40:02):
crashing through those guardrails to go darker or
whatever, then you maybe one haven't understood what you.
You know what your brand is. And two, you might need to beer
pull it back onto the road and get it between those guardrails
again so it it can help you whenyou're riding.
(40:24):
Yeah, that's a fantastic bit of advice and I've one I've never
tried and it's something I am going to try is to write that
list of words and see if it matches the.
See what you come up with. I have a feeling mine's too dark
as well. Well, I mean, it can be dark if
that's if that's the kind of thing you're writing, like dark.
(40:45):
Fantasy, yeah. So that's OK.
I can wait with that a bit. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, well, thank you very much, Julian, Sir.
It's been absolutely fantastic with you both.
And you, you've shared some fantastic insights.
So all different sides of writing.
It's so it's ridiculous how muchwe've got to know.
Terrible. It's crazy, but it's nice to to
(41:07):
bring in the perspectives from other genres which are really
popular at the moment and and tohear how you are adapting to
sort of your readers expectations, which, which did
you change an awful lot. So it's it's fantastic and thank
you very much. I really appreciate it.
Sure. Thanks for having.
Me. Yeah, it's been great.
(41:27):
The best place to If anyone wants to learn more about you
and your books, where's the bestplace for them to go?
You mean it is? I'm on Amazon, I'm in KU and all
my books are in KU on Amazon. My website isjamiealbright.com
and that's JAMI no E so jamiealbright.com and I also do
(41:53):
author consulting. So there's on my website it says
author consulting or author services, something like that.
If you click on that, you can book a session with me.
I'd love to help, very. Nice.
And my website is Sarah rosette.com.
It's just SARAROS ett.com. If you want to buy my books, I
(42:17):
have a bookstore, which is SarahRosette books.com.
If you're interested in the series book that's available
everywhere. I'm wide with all my books.
So if you want 1920 books, if you want the how to write a
series that's available. It's also available in audiobook
and also in libraries. You can find it there like in
(42:38):
Hoopla or something like that. And don't forget the podcast,
which I know then where you can find us.
So we have a lot of things wherewe're different, like Jamie's
and KU and I'm wide and we talk about a lot of different things
and different ways to do things,and the differences in writing
are different genres. That's what we should do then.
Yeah, we, we, we talked to a lotof authors, very successful
(43:00):
authors and authors that have just started out at about what
they wish they'd known and how and industry professionals about
what they wish they'd known about working with authors.
So yeah. And what they wish authors knew
about their platforms. So yeah, that's.
The it's nice to see the the contrasting approaches because
(43:22):
you say the more experiments writers try and the test the
waters to see what works, the more we all learn.
It's a great idea. Yeah.
Thank you very much again. You're welcome.
Thank you everyone home for listening.
Thank you for listening to the Fantasy Writers Tool Shed.
If you'd like to join our writing community on Discord and
(43:42):
get access to fantasy writing classes and books on Patreon,
check the links in the description.
And if you don't want to miss any future episodes, be sure to
follow or subscribe. And to support the show, leave a
quick rating on Spotify or iTunes and share this episode on
social media or with anyone who you think may be interested.
(44:03):
Thank you very much for listening.
Enjoy the show.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.