September 24, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of the "Trainer Talk" Series, our panel of fit pros dive into the controversial world of fitness professional continuing education. While staying educated and recertified is critical in our industry, the real question is: Are fit pros truly getting value from these educational opportunities...or are they just paying into a money grab? We break down the good, the bad, and the downright questionable side of continuing education, and what it really means for fit pros trying to grow their careers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Today I love this topic and I think pretty controversial on
some level, but you know talk about basically our continue
education, Cec's great investment or somewhat of a
scam. I don't know.
We're going to talk about it andwe have awesome Co host Julia
and Caroline with us today. And then Jo now thank you for
(00:24):
joining us. We really appreciate her first
podcast. So we're going to make this
amazing yes, and we'll put up. So let's just go around the
table and kind of you know, Joe,now here's your first podcast.
Let's get you going here. What's been your experience with
this topic? And then we'll just kind of
round Robin it here. So I've been in fitness for
(00:46):
almost 20 years. So I've actually had quite a few
certifications and done NASMA couple of times, oddly enough,
throughout my that entire journey.
So I got it once when I started coaching at Gold's Gym and then
had to get it again when I got to 24 because it was like a
year, like a year in between then when I got to Orange
(01:06):
Theory. So that's been my most recent
experience. I had to get another one for
working with Orange Theory. So I feel like I've got kind of
a whole taking it plenty of times.
Probably couldn't take it now without without studying for it,
but I feel like I've taken it probably more times than most.
Yeah, wow. Awesome.
So what's your experience been in terms of like recertifying
(01:31):
and going through the process and what what it's entailed for
you especially with these different places you've been
with has, has it been positive, negative?
What do you think? In a mix of both, I feel like
the when I took it, it was the difference from when I was at
Gold's to 24. Like the the information wasn't
that different but I missed the cut off date.
(01:53):
So then I had to retake the whole test and at that point I
was just starting another training, so wasn't making a lot
of money. And I think it was like maybe
four, $500. And that was probably back in
like 2011, 2012. And so that was a little
frustrating. I always feel like that
information is good to like recap, but to take it so close
back-to-back was kind of frustrating.
(02:14):
And then to have to I think between 24 and gold Turin,
between going from 24 hour to Orangetheory, I had to take
another one again. And that one wasn't quite as
intense. I think I did like a group
training one or one that was a little less, little less
intense, I guess, but just kind of was kind of sucked to have to
(02:37):
take it like back-to-back like that when I had taken him
already a few times. And I feel like the information
didn't change a lot. I don't know about now from 2011
to now, if the information is widely different.
I just felt like in that time itwas the same stuff and it was
just to kind of jump through some hoops.
But I also understand that it's kind of important to have in
this field too. So kind of good and bad I guess.
(03:00):
Caroline, what do you think? How about your experience?
Well, OK, so I did it. I was certified, I think it was
2022, spring of 2022 and I had no idea what I was doing.
So I have my mom is in the fitness industry, but she's in
the yoga industry. So that certification process,
(03:22):
which I'm sure will like chat about the different modalities
is much different than becoming like a certified personal
trainer. And so I went, I went through
nauseam and I just was like, whatever I could find, I was
like, sure, sure, check, check, check.
And I was working a full time job as an engineer.
But I got like every single timeI checked the website and it was
(03:42):
like every day or something, there was always like 45% off
sale ending in three hours. Get it now.
And I was like, is this really asale or is this really what it's
worth? And so that kind of like was
triggering as a like a red flag.But I know Nauseam is like a
very well renowned certificationto get if you wanted to work in
(04:02):
a gym or like other studios. So I did trust like the
certification. I was just like, OK, this is
they know that we need this. And then I think I got like a
bundle where it was like nutrition personal, like the
normal CPT and then corrective exercise something I think
that's like they always do that.It's like CNCCPT and CES or
(04:24):
something like that. It was like $3000 all together.
And that was like a big payment for me.
I was like a year out of college.
And again, I did have a full time job as an engineer, which
was paying me like pretty well, but it's still like $3000 to put
down. So I was like, all right,
whatever. So I took the exams and I had
(04:47):
all of that. And I thought it was a five
year. I thought you had five years to
get recertified. It's two years, which I don't
know if that changed like while I was while I had it or
whatever. So I did get recertified.
Oh, I do want to mention I also got 500 hours of my yoga
certification and in that is like really heavy anatomy.
(05:09):
And so I tried submitting that as like hours towards like a
recertification and they didn't accept it, which like really
bothered me because I just had done 500 hours of like physical
training. And they're like, it was just
like a quick no, there's no answer with anything.
And so I had to, I think then toget like those mini education
(05:30):
ones to then not have to fully recertify, it was like a couple
$100 for each one. And I was just like, I can't
because I think at the time I had quit my job and I was back
in school and I was like, I can't afford this.
So I just kind of pushed it off.And I was like, I have three
more years. And then I found out that I
missed the deadline like a couple months ago.
I was like, oh, it's not five years.
(05:51):
And so technically, yeah, I haveto now recertify.
And I'm at, I went online just before this and it's $1000 to
get that again. And I'm like, I don't, I'm not
doing that. And then I found out I went on
my profile, I've been paying $35a month for this NASM one
(06:12):
subscription. And I don't mean to like really
like hound NASM because I'm surethey all do this and I don't,
I'm starting off on a negative. And I do have a like another
side of this opinion, but this is like so sneaky of them.
And I was like, since when did Istart paying for something
called NASM 1? And it allows you.
I think the only benefit is it'slike 50% off on like certain
(06:34):
bundles and then it says like you can retest as many times as
possible. And I was like, oh, so this is
only beneficial if you fail. So I mean, and so I tried, I
emailed them right before this and I was like, get me off this.
And I don't know what's going tohappen, but it's like a 12 month
commitment. And I was like, I don't remember
committing to anything. So anyways, I think there's a
(06:54):
big part of it that's a money scheme and that they hope you're
someone like me that is in attention.
Yeah, that's. Crazy.
That's crazy. Marilyn, welcome.
Hi, everybody. Julia, let's get to what you
think Your how are you today? Yeah.
This conversation is actually very timely because I got my
(07:14):
certification last January or almost 2 January's.
I guess January's ago. I'm coming up on the point where
I have to recertify or I'm goingto lose my certification.
So I haven't actually had to go through the continuing education
process yet. And I'm like just thinking
there's got to be maybe a betterway to do this because upfront
(07:36):
when you go to the NASM website,they just promote kind of all of
their own programs. And then I know there's other
resources out there, but I thinklike having a really easy way to
find either lower cost or free opportunities is something that
needs to be introduced. So I'm like just starting to go
on the hunt for that because I don't want to lose certification
or at least I'm, I'm kind of exploring what that would mean.
(08:00):
It's I think I was one of the stockers also that when I went
to the website I must have gone up the wrong day because I think
I paid like $500 more than what the bundle I got was worth you.
Missed the debt, The discount. Deal.
I just missed it. Yeah.
So I haven't had to go through it yet.
And I'm excited to hear about everyone's kind of perspectives
(08:20):
on the the recertification that they've done and maybe learn
about some more resources as well.
Yeah, I guess I love the perspective, all these different
timelines with people not on like crazy.
I've been with the NSCACPT for over 20 years and I don't have
(08:40):
very mixed feelings about it because I mean, the
certification initially was great.
It was, it was, I had kind of AIwould say a heads up on it.
I was teaching students how to pass the NSCA exam.
I was working at a vocational college.
So our curriculum was the NSCA curriculum.
So when I was doing the exam, I was like, I'm already, I know
(09:03):
this already. So I just was easy, you know,
but over these two decades plus doing it, I definitely kind of
feel like it's, it's just a way to get money for the
organization. Sorry, NSCA, you listen to this,
It feels like every one of it's very similar.
Like I will say like they have their NSCA based events that you
(09:26):
can get a basically certification credits towards
your recertification. Then they have non NSCA events
or that. And I've always just got most of
my finish my recertification like it's a three-year window,
always got it about a year in because I would just go to a lot
of conferences and I would just knock it out because you get a
(09:47):
lot of Cecs for going to conferences.
Problem is though, especially ifyou're just starting out in the
business, conferences are expensive to go to.
It's crazy expensive. So you're spending a tremendous
amount of money to get recertified for that or you have
to basically dink and dunk your ways through little quizzes and
things of that nature. Purchasing different stuff.
(10:12):
The three-year period is feasible.
But I also just think it's like,man, I have other thoughts I'm
going to talk about this coming up.
But I do think like every time I'm just like, what's the
investment on the certificationspart on this?
Like really like it just feels like it's a good sales funnel
for them in many ways to add extra revenue to to their
(10:35):
operating income for it. But yeah, actually, I never hear
from them actually. I just only go on there to check
to see where I'm at. There's really no touch point.
There's no personal nature to the recertification.
It's like, here's what it costs,pay it, you're good.
But it's very like, empty, it feels like.
(10:56):
So that's been my experience. What about you, Marilyn?
Well, I've been at this a reallylong time and I remember in the
days when I was first AA idea, like Reebok step certified, all
the all you had were you could only get your certs and research
(11:17):
and CE CS by going to conventions.
So it was really hard, like you had to pray that for us on the
East Coast, that's where I am, that there was something that
was going on in either Manhattanor an area of like New York or
New Jersey or Connecticut that was within a three hour.
I mean, I literally drove to Boston 1, you know, year away,
but you know, the the affordability factor, you know,
(11:40):
the craziness of it and then theemptiness, like you said,
Darian, there's just, you know, it's so frustrating that I was
having a conversation when I waswalking out of work with a
girlfriend. She caught me and she's like, Oh
my gosh, I took a class. It's brand new instructor and
you know, she didn't even know there was a lever on the bike
and she's like, didn't like there's and it goes back to what
(12:01):
you've been saying from day one.There's no mentoring.
You get certified and then you're on your own and you just
feel like, you know, you pray toGod.
You get picked up by a studio ora fitness facility and that
somebody gives you a little bit of time and energy and
attention. But you're on your own.
And you have that two year window to figure out how do you
get another, you know, 12 credits and then your CPR, you
(12:26):
have to renew. I'm at the point now where I'm
so old and I've done everything that I just went through a yoga,
my 200 hours of yoga because I'mso tired of taking NASAM and
Alpha certs. And I mean, I even got roped
into the nutrition coach with NASAM and Alpha.
And then after I paid over $1000and the test was horrifically, I
(12:52):
mean, I might as well have gotten my dietitian degree
because it was that difficult. There's a big, you know, like
FBI warning, so to speak, where it's like this bold like
warning, you know, you are not allowed to give nutritional
advice or counseling. All you can do is recommend that
you know, they, I'm like, I justwent through all this and all I
can say to people is I have a nutrition certification, but you
(13:15):
still need to go to a registereddietitian because I can't tell
you that that your calorie intake to your, you know, your
calorie expenditure is off or you can't recommend it was.
So there's so many parts with that are frustrating,
frustrating. I do love the idea of continuing
your education and as like both of you girls are young and
(13:37):
enthusiastic. And I will say, even within the
scope of my life and my certifications, I have Les Mills
programming. I have a couple of the different
pre choreographed, but Les Millsis the only one I've kept and
stayed because I feel like at least there, there is a
component of actual follow up and care because you have three
months to make a video of yourself after you go through
(13:59):
the weekend training and you getfeedback on you know, Julie, you
did great. You know, you're, you know, if
you could work on your queuing, we're going to give you an
opportunity to re submit a videoand re So you have somebody as
frustrating and disappointing and emotional as that is, but at
least you're getting that feedback versus just not knowing
(14:20):
what the hell or taking something.
So, and as young instructors trying to build out your craft
and your just access to picking up classes, you are going to
certify and all different thingsbecause you want to be able to
get on a schedule and have maybetwo or three classes in a row,
whether it's I go from bar to math, Pilates to the strength
(14:41):
training or a cycle. So in those regards, it's great
to be able to to get all those different certifications,
continue your education, keep adding to your own, you know,
resume of expertise. But where does it go from here?
And at at some point it just, itdoes feel like it becomes a
money grab because there's nothing new going on in any of
(15:05):
the, you know, formatting or it's like really cycling is
cycling. Like, what do you mean?
Now you're now you're telling uswe can stand in this position
versus the last 20 years. We couldn't or, you know, so it
just becomes kind of frustrating.
I wish there was a way. I don't know, I don't know what
(15:27):
the answer is. I, I love that they want you to,
to stay active and be accountable, but how do you,
what is the value like? How do, how do you make it worth
your? Well, I'm going through another
nightmare with alpha right now because I, you know, I submitted
all my stuff. You know, that's the other
thing. If you go to an outside source,
you've got to write a letter, e-mail it to their board to get
(15:50):
approval because it's not a NASAmanapa.
They do offer, they do offer free, but it's like one credit,
2 credits. So as Darian was saying, like,
you know, you could pull your hair out trying to find all
those freebies and they're goingto be about really random and
bizarre stuff. Like I remember during the, it
was like, you know, teaching during COVID, like after COVID,
(16:12):
they're like, oh, we have free credits.
Teaching during COVID. I'm like, really like taking
just to take credits and get it done.
You know, you don't want it to feel like that's that's what
it's about. Like, Oh my God, I'm only doing
this because I need these 12 credits and I'm so out of my
mind and I'm just taking anything.
You just want there to be a quality factor and I don't know
(16:34):
what the answer. Is.
I think the point on feedback isreally interesting because
without that, like how do you know that what you're learning
is actually making you a better trainer, making you better at
what you're doing? If you'd like are not actually
seeing any change in the outcomeor getting feedback from
somebody that is qualified, How do you know that you you just
like checked a box? You took some quiz and some
(16:55):
people just test well, maybe there's like tests that you take
and you can you can check that off and do well, but does that
actually translate to being a better trainer?
And I think having a system for that obviously requires more
overhead. It's like why we have
standardized testing. It's an easy way to just like
check a box and filter out a lotof people, but it doesn't really
like get to the the heart of thecraft and and will gaining
(17:18):
anything with yo. The yoga teacher training, so I
did 200 hours and 300 hours and it was really, it was I think
harder than the NASM and NASM like was I thought honestly the
information there for a first time certified personal or
personal trainer, I thought was amazing.
And I really enjoyed the anatomyand understanding how the body
(17:40):
moves. And I really do think it's like
great information and really important.
And there were some addendums from years past where they're
like, actually based on this, this, this, this is not the best
thing to do. I don't know if you guys know
plow holes. That one was like a big one for
me. Right.
For years we didn't do it. Now you're kind of doing it like
(18:02):
a shoulder stance or you're doing plow again.
Yeah. And so I thought that was really
interesting and getting all of that.
But with the yoga, you do have to basically you go through the
whole hours and you audition in front of the teachers and they
will give you cues and you're auditioning throughout the
course of the 200 and 300 hours and auditioning.
Meaning like you're teaching classes, either teaching the
(18:23):
people around you or you're doing like free classes.
And I think Pilates is a great example of that as well.
You have to go through 100 hoursof teacher training, like actual
like you're teaching before you can technically be a Pilates
instructor. So I think that's really
important because in person and like actually working with
someone is very different then what's just like understanding
(18:48):
what a trap is, what a bicep is and how like on paper what that
looks like. So I do I think that would be
really nice if there was somehowan in person session for like a
first time trainer. And maybe that's, and I know
like some gyms will obviously like guide you a little and like
you can shadow, but I think there should be a little more
(19:10):
oversight with that because I definitely know people that just
do it test well and then they don't really, it doesn't that
what they learn doesn't translate into what they're
doing. Well, and and personal training
is different from group fit. You know, you could be a great
personal trainer, but to try andget in front of a room of
anywhere from 12 to, you know, 54, you know, all level open
(19:35):
level participants and think youcan lead them and coach them and
have eyes on every. It's a it's, it's a different
dynamic and, and skill set. So it's, I mean, very, very few
times and I've been at my one studio, which is a main, you
(19:55):
know, pretty, it's a pretty established gym in in my area.
I don't think my boss. Maybe once in 20 years has taken
one of my strength training classes.
I mean, it's wonderful that she trusts me and knows my level of
just self commitment to excellence.
But you know, you do a 5 minute demo if anything, or it's word
(20:17):
of mouth a lot of times, right? How you get hired and then
you're kind of on your own to figure it out.
And if your class is struggling,you're trying to figure out why
and you don't have any feedback or guidance from a manager.
I mean, it's not like you reallyhad the you didn't have a lot of
the hand holding or I love the idea of the hours, but I just, I
(20:40):
don't know, even in regular group fit.
That would be amazing if they ifstudios could do that or gyms
could do that. But I guess it's a big ask
because there's so many options from small boutique, you know,
vertical spaces to big box corporate gyms, you know, So how
do you how do you facilitate getting them all to create
(21:04):
training mentoring programs? Yeah, it's definitely a big
lift, Joe. Now what about Orangetheory?
I'm curious about how it works there.
I mean, I know about Orangetheory probably just like
a general person does, but what's the certification
recertification aspect like there?
So, so just like any gym, so youjust have to be personal
(21:26):
training. Well, when I first started in
2013, you had to have a personaltraining certification, you had
to have your CPT. And now they kind of loosened it
up a little bit to where you could have like a group training
one because obviously it's a group of people.
And kind of to Marilyn's point, like once you get that
certification, you've got 45 different types of bodies,
(21:46):
different type of personalities.Like that certification really
doesn't do you justice. So hopefully it's on like the
studio to then come in and trainyou and to help you.
And Orangetheory's awesome because they super train you on
the template because that's the goal so that everybody can
repeat the same workout, whetheryou're in Colorado or whether
you're in Texas or wherever. But where they miss some mark is
(22:08):
those personal touches. Because if I don't know if this
person can do a squat, I kind ofjust let them do their thing
versus like this person's going to get hurt.
So over the years, they've have done a lot more like in studio
training to where they call it now.
They call it your orange eye. So you're supposed to go to
people that look like they're going to hurt themselves 1st and
then you kind of tailor. But if you've never like had a
(22:30):
room of 45 people, like that's hard to do because you just
don't know what you don't know. So I liked kind of Maryland's
idea of maybe doing more the in person training or the
certification. I'm sure people would pay $1000
if it was like a three day workshop.
It's kind of what they do more so long theory.
So once you get certified, you do go through a training
(22:50):
process, but it's still most more on like the template, the
intervals, like the programming itself first.
It's like if this person has knee issues, what do you do?
This person has back issues, what do you do?
Like that's, that's kind of the hard part.
And I think that's what makes you a really good trainer or
really not so good. And not to anybody's fault.
You just don't, you just don't know what you don't know.
(23:11):
And unfortunately, I think that's what stops most like
really good group coaches from getting to be better is that
they don't want to make those corrections or they don't want
to hurt somebody more. So they end up kind of pulling
back because you don't you can'tjust read it and then go adjust
somebody because you just don't know what it looks like in real
life. So they have gotten better with
(23:31):
like they're in part like with training and coaching.
But I think ultimately, like most of the gyms that I've
worked for, it's mainly for likethe insurance purpose, not so
much that you can get better andreally adjust people, which is
fair, which is understandable because it's still a business at
the end of the day. But if ultimately somehow the
like NASAM or a somehow put it on the company to do the
(23:53):
training, I think that would be kind of helpful too.
I don't know how you would do that.
But then that forces like the managers and the head coaches
and those people actually get inthere and help them get better
versus just like a piece of paper.
I know. I also know that a lot of gyms
like don't really stop or not hire someone because their
(24:13):
certification lapsed. So that's like also another
thing where I and I don't ever like, I think it is again really
important to stay on top of yourown like understanding and
training because I've done continuing education through
like yoga and also I've been taught by like physical
therapist and all that stuff. It's just not NASM or ACE or
(24:36):
anything like those kind of certifications, but where I was
like, Oh yeah, but you yeah. Like I just, I don't think I, I
just, I wouldn't want someone tohave to go through the whole
process again and pay $1000 whenit's like really not necessary.
Like top studios like Equinox, you can have a lapse to
(24:58):
certification and they will not say no.
If you're a good training, you'll have to I.
Have no clue about that really. Yeah, that Julie and I learned
that early on when we were starting like the Fit for All
company, we I was like big on like wanting to make sure
everyone had at least a certification only to find out
that mine had just lapsed. And then everyone else that we
(25:21):
were like getting their certifications were like, oh,
these are all lapsed and they work at Equinox, They work at
like this. And I mean, they're all really
good trainers. It's just I and now I'm totally
one of them. I'm like, I don't want to pay
$1000 for this. It's for just.
Like further, yeah. It's pretty common are.
You because like as a, as a trainer, if you have to take
(25:42):
time off, you lose your income. So you also, I'm not going to be
$1000. You don't make the, you know, 2
or $300.00 of what it is too. That's probably why please like
at Orange Theory, like people let it lapse.
They're like, well, I can't takeoff.
Unfortunately, it's kind of the nature of the business too.
The less you train people, the less money you make.
So it is kind of like a not a trap, but there's just no good
(26:04):
way to do, no good way to like get recertified.
And, and you're not guaranteed, you know, hours or a class just
because, you know, I, I finishedmy 200 hours in April and it's
as you know, Caroline and maybe everyone else, it was thousands
of dollars, thousands. I mean, I'm still paying it off
(26:25):
my credit card because, and I'm subbing a class tonight.
I'm subbing tonight. But I didn't, you know, and I, I
worked for like 3 really tremendous gyms and locations
and I don't have a set class yetbecause what's open, you know,
there's no necessarily, there's no time.
And then they're going to start,you know, nobody's going to just
(26:46):
create a window for me at a premium to.
But so you have that frustrationof, well, I'm bar certified, but
I don't have a, a specific bar class.
I'm this certified. But so it it's kind of
frustrating. Yeah, I think that's where the
online starts to grow because ofthat issue.
(27:08):
A lot of people are getting certified.
There's not. There's only so many hours in
the day. But along with that, something I
did see pop up on nauseam was like becoming like getting
certified to become like a influencer, like a fitness
influencer. And I was like, yeah, they've
had a lot a plot. Pay for that.
(27:29):
Yeah, let me let me make sure I'm not making this up because I
remember seeing it and it was like a person like holding
their. Yeah, I don't think you are.
I feel like I've seen that in the past.
I mean, listen, years ago they tried to do like local the
biggest loser coach when that show was on TV, they wanted to
connect you and I remember like submitting a resume for it.
(27:50):
And they're like, hold on. We're trying to find jersey
people that try to interview or are different for the biggest
loser show and we're going to see who's in your area.
And then it just fell apart. But I think you're right.
I think they're. Yeah, social media fitness
influencer maximize the reach and your impact by growing
social media. It's unbelievable.
(28:11):
It's $21.00 a month. How?
Many credits. You have to put down $49.00.
You have to put down $49.00 plusthe 12 payments so it's like
close to. C credits for it.
Maybe we all need to do it, yeah?
I don't even know if it counts towards your credits.
(28:31):
I don't know. I was like, I can't.
Handle. This, this is like too much for
me. Like this, you shouldn't have.
Told me yeah, yeah, I know. I like that.
Part of me was like, I almost don't even want to bring this up
but when I saw that I was like, we're done.
We're it's so. Embarrassing.
This is it, honestly. Yeah.
It's so embarrassing. Come on.
(28:53):
Yeah, I mean, they're making money where they know it can be
made. So yeah, it's just for the
proof. It's really business.
Yeah, that's another thing like that is I'm going to bring it
back to Pilates again. And also with yoga teacher
training, I think there are somelike downfalls with it in terms
(29:14):
of for specifically for yoga teacher training, there's no
governing body that like says, oh, this is good, this is bad.
They're trying to grow that because there are some people
that make that should not be creating teacher training
programs that make a lot of money off of it that have
honestly not gone through it themselves.
So that's like, not great, but Ithought you had.
(29:35):
To go through Yoga Alliance. It's not required really.
You, everyone, everyone that I tell, I'm like make sure that
you're, whomever you're doing itwith has gone through Yoga
Alliance and that it has become like more of a norm within the
past five years. But it's not a requirement.
But I do like though that it's like again, more in person stuff
(29:59):
and more like hands on if it's agood program for Pilates, I know
people like audition to even getor like what's the word not
audition interview to even become potentially to go through
the instructor certification process.
So not that I want to make it like Elite or harder to do.
(30:21):
It's just a social media fitnessinfluencer.
I if that's like the governing body that is like doing like
NASM, it has this, then I think it's a money grab at that point.
And it's, like, unbelievable. Less trustworthy, yeah.
Wow. So wait, wait, let me back up
here because my mind is too. This is too much for me.
It's actually too much for me. I have to like reel this back in
(30:44):
for me. So Equinox, you were saying they
were just OK with letting trainers certifications lapse
basically? Yeah, From what I've seen, it
might be based on like specific gym, like studio that we saw
like all, yeah, different locations.
I don't know if they manage it differently but every single
(31:06):
person that had gotten one it's was like a couple years expired.
Yeah. And we don't know if that was
during the hiring process or if they had an active cert when
they joined and then they just didn't follow up.
I think it was a little bit of both.
Yeah, I they for sure, Yeah, they definitely because I know
Equinox will cover the cost of the like whatever certification
(31:28):
you go through if you like work for them.
So a lot of people will then work at Equinox get their
certification, but I just I haven't seen any like, oh, you
have to re up it it's expiring type of.
Yeah. This is, you know, I, I ran a
club for 10 years and, and it was, it was in 33 countries.
So there was a lot of diversity with different clubs.
(31:50):
Some of them are private clubs, you know, Hoas, recreation
facilities, hotels, spas. And I, I know for sure that
there were places that just the directors didn't check to see if
the trainers or group back if they actually recertified.
And and I was always like alwaysa problem, but it always just
(32:12):
made me feel like, do we even take this seriously?
Is it like letting people work? Like, do we even care actually
about this, you know? Even with like with independent
training, like, I've never had aclient ask me, can I see your
certs like they don't know what that means they.
Don't know they. Don't they trust that if you say
you're a trainer and you like give them a good session and you
(32:34):
are helping them reach their goals, they're like, they don't
even think about it. So like, I think it's, yeah.
This further proves the point that it's really, it's a
corporation at this point. And like there's value.
I think to an extent it's I, Yeah, it's.
I mean, I, I think that I think they're trusting the honor roll
system and I, you know, my gyms ask, you know, might we get like
(32:58):
a reminder 6 months before that our certifications are coming to
an expiration at one of my main gyms.
The other one is, has a lot of their own branded programming.
It's a lifetime facility. So, you know, interestingly
enough, part of the conversationI was having earlier with
another GFI was the young gal that's now teaching cycle.
(33:24):
And it's great she was promoted from within.
Like she came out of the the child care room, but she only
did the in house training of their branded, one of their
branded cycling's. So she doesn't have a Johnny G
or a or a cycle certification from an actual, you know, just
(33:47):
authentic cycling module and program.
She's just doing the one versionof lifetimes, you know, like amp
ride, you know, or what would belike a soul cycle ride.
So, you know, that I think that was part of the reason why she
didn't even know the the mechanics of the bike that it
(34:10):
had a lever and it has an odometer and how to set the seat
and, you know, clip in the shoes.
And, you know, do is do you blame her or do you blame the
management who's just pushing a kid through who's enthusiastic,
wants to teach but is putting everybody at risk?
You know, when you when you build in like, oh, I can just
(34:34):
go, I don't have to get, I don'thave to get certified in a
professional way. I just can just get picked up
there and you know, do their online school, you know, their
course trainings and you know you can't.
She's not taking that anywhere outside of lifetime and think
she's getting hired. And if she does, shame on that,
you know, gym owner or or studioowner even more.
(35:01):
Well, I think that's to Maryland's point kind of the
hard part, right? Because we need, we tell people
I have to have the certificationand then it kind of falls on the
company to either train them or to support them or to help them.
So even if the even if that certification lapse like there's
still no support to help them get better.
So it's almost like it should belike that paper I'm sure is
required for insurance purposes as far as I understand with
(35:24):
Orangetheory, because when Orangetheory was like smaller,
they didn't really care about it.
Like it was more just did you follow the template?
Did you follow the program? And the good coaches, the one
that clearly had a bad friend, you could obviously tell.
So those ones got better and better where people would just
like constantly drop off and that's not full either.
So I feel like that kind of takes the fitness industry back
a little bit with all these justkind of like random people and
(35:47):
random instructors doesn't like help the credibility.
But at the same time, like there's got to be somebody after
that certification to help you get better and to help you know
how to do this in real life. Otherwise it just kind of falls
flat. But.
I mean, it really needs to be the GFM or the Group X director
and a lot. I mean, I know even like my one
(36:08):
Group X manager, she's not even certified.
She's really like an admin gal. She knows how to use the
computer and make a pretty poster to promote, you know,
Julie's Pilates, you know, pop up class.
But she's, she's not certified to give feedback or show
somebody. And I mean, I've been in a
position at at my one club wherenew girls have come in and it I
(36:32):
was so thankful that my boss waslike, she just got certified.
Will you? And she graciously was like,
I'll give you like half your half rate or I'll pay you for 30
minutes if you can mentor her for like, you know, but we got
like 4, you know, 2 full hours or, you know, four half hour
(36:55):
sessions. And and then they're like, yeah,
OK, she's good. Because they don't want to pay.
She don't want to pay me anymore.
So, you know, I spent like the better part of, you know, less
than a full 7 day work week trying to help one or two
younger instructors. I mean, there's still girls
teaching in a mirror. You know, they're not even
they're your their butts are in your face versus them facing you
(37:17):
and having like understanding what your instructor right is
and leading a class, looking at the audience or, you know,
setting everybody up and being able to be comfortable and
confident enough in their own ability, but also to go up and
say, Hey, is it OK if I touch you?
I just want to yeah, help you out.
You're doing great. But just here's my hand.
Push back. Don't push.
See how you're pushing into my your knees, pushing into my
(37:39):
hand, shift your hips back. And yeah, great, Now you got it.
Terrific. You don't even have people doing
understanding and doing the basics like that.
I mean, I'm horrified sometimes when I actually take a class and
you know, you see the bad form on a clean press or squat or a
lunge and or or plank, you know,I mean, half of them are doing
(38:01):
weird versions of a down dog, you know, and A and a neck
strain. So, you know, how do you get
group fit managers and and directors to take take the
anybody you know, shadow go in. Like somebody was saying it like
shadow the classes go in, give ait doesn't have to be 100 hours,
(38:22):
but maybe it needs to be, you know, 30 hours within a AA28 or
one month cycle. Get to 30 hours of classes or,
you know, get to my, you know, get to the, the manager's
classes or let make sure the manager gets in.
The manager needs to get in and and be and be taking the classes
and giving constructive feedback.
(38:43):
You know, that's how you learn. This doesn't sound promising.
I'm just going to be honest here.
It doesn't sound. Great.
Yeah, I, I honestly think and I,I think it really comes down to
the studio and the gym for them to take responsibility over
(39:05):
whomever they're hiring. And I do think based on like
when I interviewed at Spaces andwhen I worked at Spaces,
obviously it looks bad on the studio if they have a bad
trainer. So there is a level of, for the
most part that I've seen of studios kind of taking a bit
more responsibility over their trainers when they first come
(39:27):
on. And a good example is Equinox,
like you, you have to work the floor for 8 hours or something
hit a certain amount of hours before you can like start being
like a personal trainer out likeon your own time.
And so I think there, I think a lot of studios do have that, but
I do wish that that was part of kind of the governing body of
(39:47):
becoming a personal trainer. And I think it sounds like we're
all kind of in agreement with that, that learning online is
very different than trying to actually come in person.
And again, everyone's body is different.
So you really have to see it to understand it.
And yeah, that's just not part of the program.
No, no, it's definitely not. And I feel like as many people
(40:11):
I've talked to those over the years that feel like the
recertification process and the whole deal is they're just
trying to get through it. They're not excited about it.
So like, and you're and you're like, oh, I want to learn,
continue to get better. That's like the hope for the
industry and for individual people.
But everyone I talk to feels like it's just like something
that's in the way for them. It's like, oh, I got to do this.
(40:33):
It's an. Obligation.
It's a burden. It's a burden and an obligation,
and it takes the fun out of it. That's exactly right.
Passion out of it because you'vegot to get these.
You're worried you're just right, you're just worried about
the Cecs and what? And that's why you do scramble
online because you know, when you're you're probably working a
full time job, you're teaching classes as a as a passion side
(40:58):
gig, you maybe have a dog or a family or a significant other or
somebody. Like there's so many other
distractions and obligations in your life that you do start
saying like, Oh my God, what canI do online that I can just get
in, get done, race through it, submit the forms, you know, keep
my fingers crossed it all gets approved and I submitted it.
(41:18):
All right. And just know I'm good for
another two years. You know, it, it kind of, I
mean, that's at this point in mylife, there have been many an an
honest moment where that's all it was for me is just ruling
through it to make sure I, I cuzyou don't ever want to have to
go back to your primary cert. You know, that's just God awful.
(41:39):
And another, you know, couple $100 to be like, really, you
know, you kick yourself if you let it expire.
But then I think, Caroline, you were saying it 'cause I have the
NASAM AFFA, like buy for life, you know, pay 500 now and, you
know, be automatically. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait a
minute, what did I pay $500.00 for if it's not automatically
(42:02):
renewing me and you're telling me that I still need it lately.
So yeah, I'm like, what did I just, oh, I don't have to submit
the $25 every time. I'm, I just paid 1000 for 12
credits. So yeah, it makes you wonder
what the hell your money is going to.
I, I, it's funny because I have to and it's, and I'm like, you
(42:26):
know, it's like the PTS syndromeof I have an e-mail from them, I
and I have to go back and find it because it's, I submitted all
my yoga credits and I'm like, Ohmy God.
I just read the headline. Hi.
You know, we saw you did something and I'm like, oh, no,
Oh no. What, what did I do now?
And I it's like on my list to goback and do and get on the phone
(42:49):
and wait for 2 1/2 hours callingCalifornia to get connected to a
live person, you know, to try and talk my way out of.
What do you mean I didn't do it right, you know, or, or what am
I missing or what? How much more money do I need to
pay to get it approved? Yeah, so true.
(43:10):
But you know, listen, we love it, We love what we do and for
the most part, I would imagine we all have a great impact on.
So, you know, I, I was corporateinterviewing for a job a week or
two ago and the woman was like, you're you, you teach exercise.
And I'm like, I save at least 10lives a day like we are.
(43:34):
So our words, our movement, you know, even a song on your
playlist. I'm sure we all have that
experience of somebody thanking you at the end of the class or
the training session for really just, you know, saving their
life in that moment. And that in itself is so
gratifying. You know, it's our passion.
(43:57):
So we're all going to keep plugging along and hoping it
gets better. And if it doesn't, we're still
going to plug along and keep ourcertifications active and know
that we truly make a difference in the lives of our members, you
know? Yeah.
Wow. Amazing.
I learned something. Very.
You know, Caroline, I really wish you didn't bring that up.
(44:17):
You blew my mind today. You can go back.
You blew my mind and it's not a good way.
It's not a good way. It's it's I just and it's funny
and I really from our first podcast together, you know,
unfortunately I get hooked sometimes into the schemes
(44:38):
considering. Yeah, we know I remember that
came out like do I this because I got like an e-mail about it or
something and I was like, oh, aninfluencer package.
Yeah, thankfully they'll. Ask your revenue.
So do you buy that and then put influencer?
Like IST and certified, certified, certified.
(45:02):
I think it was like ISM or something like that, like
influencer social media or something like that.
Yeah. Do you see anyone with like nods
on ISM? Yeah.
And it's, I think it turns out being probably like $500.
Yeah. MoneyGram.
Yeah, if it's 12 credits, I might have to do it.
(45:24):
I think, I don't know if it associates to credits, but yeah,
if it's 12 credits I I'm sure it's like point O1.
Oh God, Point O yeah, I know. Man, wow, what a conversation.
I this is better than I even thought.
These, I love these topics. These are amazing topics for us
to discuss and gosh, a lot of our colleagues need to listen to
(45:48):
this one especially. There's a lot, if nothing else,
just to hear the craziness that's coming out.
ISM all day, all day ISM. Well, thank you everyone for
being here. I really appreciate your time,
your effort, and Julie and Caroline, thanks for always
being here for this trainer talkseries that we have.
Appreciate everyone's time. Have an awesome rest of your day
(46:11):
and look forward to getting thisone out for sure.
Today I love this topic and I think pretty controversial on
some level, but you know talk about basically our continue
education, Cec's great investment or somewhat of a
scam. I don't know.
We're going to talk about it andwe have awesome Co host Julia
and Caroline with us today. And then Jo now thank you for
(00:24):
joining us. We really appreciate her first
podcast. So we're going to make this
amazing yes, and we'll put up. So let's just go around the
table and kind of you know, Joe,now here's your first podcast.
Let's get you going here. What's been your experience with
this topic? And then we'll just kind of
round Robin it here. So I've been in fitness for
(00:46):
almost 20 years. So I've actually had quite a few
certifications and done NASMA couple of times, oddly enough,
throughout my that entire journey.
So I got it once when I started coaching at Gold's Gym and then
had to get it again when I got to 24 because it was like a
year, like a year in between then when I got to Orange
(01:06):
Theory. So that's been my most recent
experience. I had to get another one for
working with Orange Theory. So I feel like I've got kind of
a whole taking it plenty of times.
Probably couldn't take it now without without studying for it,
but I feel like I've taken it probably more times than most.
Yeah, wow. Awesome.
So what's your experience been in terms of like recertifying
(01:31):
and going through the process and what what it's entailed for
you especially with these different places you've been
with has, has it been positive, negative?
What do you think? In a mix of both, I feel like
the when I took it, it was the difference from when I was at
Gold's to 24. Like the the information wasn't
that different but I missed the cut off date.
(01:53):
So then I had to retake the whole test and at that point I
was just starting another training, so wasn't making a lot
of money. And I think it was like maybe
four, $500. And that was probably back in
like 2011, 2012. And so that was a little
frustrating. I always feel like that
information is good to like recap, but to take it so close
back-to-back was kind of frustrating.
(02:14):
And then to have to I think between 24 and gold Turin,
between going from 24 hour to Orangetheory, I had to take
another one again. And that one wasn't quite as
intense. I think I did like a group
training one or one that was a little less, little less
intense, I guess, but just kind of was kind of sucked to have to
(02:37):
take it like back-to-back like that when I had taken him
already a few times. And I feel like the information
didn't change a lot. I don't know about now from 2011
to now, if the information is widely different.
I just felt like in that time itwas the same stuff and it was
just to kind of jump through some hoops.
But I also understand that it's kind of important to have in
this field too. So kind of good and bad I guess.
(03:00):
Caroline, what do you think? How about your experience?
Well, OK, so I did it. I was certified, I think it was
2022, spring of 2022 and I had no idea what I was doing.
So I have my mom is in the fitness industry, but she's in
the yoga industry. So that certification process,
(03:22):
which I'm sure will like chat about the different modalities
is much different than becoming like a certified personal
trainer. And so I went, I went through
nauseam and I just was like, whatever I could find, I was
like, sure, sure, check, check, check.
And I was working a full time job as an engineer.
But I got like every single timeI checked the website and it was
(03:42):
like every day or something, there was always like 45% off
sale ending in three hours. Get it now.
And I was like, is this really asale or is this really what it's
worth? And so that kind of like was
triggering as a like a red flag.But I know Nauseam is like a
very well renowned certificationto get if you wanted to work in
(04:02):
a gym or like other studios. So I did trust like the
certification. I was just like, OK, this is
they know that we need this. And then I think I got like a
bundle where it was like nutrition personal, like the
normal CPT and then corrective exercise something I think
that's like they always do that.It's like CNCCPT and CES or
(04:24):
something like that. It was like $3000 all together.
And that was like a big payment for me.
I was like a year out of college.
And again, I did have a full time job as an engineer, which
was paying me like pretty well, but it's still like $3000 to put
down. So I was like, all right,
whatever. So I took the exams and I had
(04:47):
all of that. And I thought it was a five
year. I thought you had five years to
get recertified. It's two years, which I don't
know if that changed like while I was while I had it or
whatever. So I did get recertified.
Oh, I do want to mention I also got 500 hours of my yoga
certification and in that is like really heavy anatomy.
(05:09):
And so I tried submitting that as like hours towards like a
recertification and they didn't accept it, which like really
bothered me because I just had done 500 hours of like physical
training. And they're like, it was just
like a quick no, there's no answer with anything.
And so I had to, I think then toget like those mini education
(05:30):
ones to then not have to fully recertify, it was like a couple
$100 for each one. And I was just like, I can't
because I think at the time I had quit my job and I was back
in school and I was like, I can't afford this.
So I just kind of pushed it off.And I was like, I have three
more years. And then I found out that I
missed the deadline like a couple months ago.
I was like, oh, it's not five years.
(05:51):
And so technically, yeah, I haveto now recertify.
And I'm at, I went online just before this and it's $1000 to
get that again. And I'm like, I don't, I'm not
doing that. And then I found out I went on
my profile, I've been paying $35a month for this NASM one
(06:12):
subscription. And I don't mean to like really
like hound NASM because I'm surethey all do this and I don't,
I'm starting off on a negative. And I do have a like another
side of this opinion, but this is like so sneaky of them.
And I was like, since when did Istart paying for something
called NASM 1? And it allows you.
I think the only benefit is it'slike 50% off on like certain
(06:34):
bundles and then it says like you can retest as many times as
possible. And I was like, oh, so this is
only beneficial if you fail. So I mean, and so I tried, I
emailed them right before this and I was like, get me off this.
And I don't know what's going tohappen, but it's like a 12 month
commitment. And I was like, I don't remember
committing to anything. So anyways, I think there's a
(06:54):
big part of it that's a money scheme and that they hope you're
someone like me that is in attention.
Yeah, that's. Crazy.
That's crazy. Marilyn, welcome.
Hi, everybody. Julia, let's get to what you
think Your how are you today? Yeah.
This conversation is actually very timely because I got my
(07:14):
certification last January or almost 2 January's.
I guess January's ago. I'm coming up on the point where
I have to recertify or I'm goingto lose my certification.
So I haven't actually had to go through the continuing education
process yet. And I'm like just thinking
there's got to be maybe a betterway to do this because upfront
(07:36):
when you go to the NASM website,they just promote kind of all of
their own programs. And then I know there's other
resources out there, but I thinklike having a really easy way to
find either lower cost or free opportunities is something that
needs to be introduced. So I'm like just starting to go
on the hunt for that because I don't want to lose certification
or at least I'm, I'm kind of exploring what that would mean.
(08:00):
It's I think I was one of the stockers also that when I went
to the website I must have gone up the wrong day because I think
I paid like $500 more than what the bundle I got was worth you.
Missed the debt, The discount. Deal.
I just missed it. Yeah.
So I haven't had to go through it yet.
And I'm excited to hear about everyone's kind of perspectives
(08:20):
on the the recertification that they've done and maybe learn
about some more resources as well.
Yeah, I guess I love the perspective, all these different
timelines with people not on like crazy.
I've been with the NSCACPT for over 20 years and I don't have
(08:40):
very mixed feelings about it because I mean, the
certification initially was great.
It was, it was, I had kind of AIwould say a heads up on it.
I was teaching students how to pass the NSCA exam.
I was working at a vocational college.
So our curriculum was the NSCA curriculum.
So when I was doing the exam, I was like, I'm already, I know
(09:03):
this already. So I just was easy, you know,
but over these two decades plus doing it, I definitely kind of
feel like it's, it's just a way to get money for the
organization. Sorry, NSCA, you listen to this,
It feels like every one of it's very similar.
Like I will say like they have their NSCA based events that you
(09:26):
can get a basically certification credits towards
your recertification. Then they have non NSCA events
or that. And I've always just got most of
my finish my recertification like it's a three-year window,
always got it about a year in because I would just go to a lot
of conferences and I would just knock it out because you get a
(09:47):
lot of Cecs for going to conferences.
Problem is though, especially ifyou're just starting out in the
business, conferences are expensive to go to.
It's crazy expensive. So you're spending a tremendous
amount of money to get recertified for that or you have
to basically dink and dunk your ways through little quizzes and
things of that nature. Purchasing different stuff.
(10:12):
The three-year period is feasible.
But I also just think it's like,man, I have other thoughts I'm
going to talk about this coming up.
But I do think like every time I'm just like, what's the
investment on the certificationspart on this?
Like really like it just feels like it's a good sales funnel
for them in many ways to add extra revenue to to their
(10:35):
operating income for it. But yeah, actually, I never hear
from them actually. I just only go on there to check
to see where I'm at. There's really no touch point.
There's no personal nature to the recertification.
It's like, here's what it costs,pay it, you're good.
But it's very like, empty, it feels like.
(10:56):
So that's been my experience. What about you, Marilyn?
Well, I've been at this a reallylong time and I remember in the
days when I was first AA idea, like Reebok step certified, all
the all you had were you could only get your certs and research
(11:17):
and CE CS by going to conventions.
So it was really hard, like you had to pray that for us on the
East Coast, that's where I am, that there was something that
was going on in either Manhattanor an area of like New York or
New Jersey or Connecticut that was within a three hour.
I mean, I literally drove to Boston 1, you know, year away,
but you know, the the affordability factor, you know,
(11:40):
the craziness of it and then theemptiness, like you said,
Darian, there's just, you know, it's so frustrating that I was
having a conversation when I waswalking out of work with a
girlfriend. She caught me and she's like, Oh
my gosh, I took a class. It's brand new instructor and
you know, she didn't even know there was a lever on the bike
and she's like, didn't like there's and it goes back to what
(12:01):
you've been saying from day one.There's no mentoring.
You get certified and then you're on your own and you just
feel like, you know, you pray toGod.
You get picked up by a studio ora fitness facility and that
somebody gives you a little bit of time and energy and
attention. But you're on your own.
And you have that two year window to figure out how do you
get another, you know, 12 credits and then your CPR, you
(12:26):
have to renew. I'm at the point now where I'm
so old and I've done everything that I just went through a yoga,
my 200 hours of yoga because I'mso tired of taking NASAM and
Alpha certs. And I mean, I even got roped
into the nutrition coach with NASAM and Alpha.
And then after I paid over $1000and the test was horrifically, I
(12:52):
mean, I might as well have gotten my dietitian degree
because it was that difficult. There's a big, you know, like
FBI warning, so to speak, where it's like this bold like
warning, you know, you are not allowed to give nutritional
advice or counseling. All you can do is recommend that
you know, they, I'm like, I justwent through all this and all I
can say to people is I have a nutrition certification, but you
(13:15):
still need to go to a registereddietitian because I can't tell
you that that your calorie intake to your, you know, your
calorie expenditure is off or you can't recommend it was.
So there's so many parts with that are frustrating,
frustrating. I do love the idea of continuing
your education and as like both of you girls are young and
(13:37):
enthusiastic. And I will say, even within the
scope of my life and my certifications, I have Les Mills
programming. I have a couple of the different
pre choreographed, but Les Millsis the only one I've kept and
stayed because I feel like at least there, there is a
component of actual follow up and care because you have three
months to make a video of yourself after you go through
(13:59):
the weekend training and you getfeedback on you know, Julie, you
did great. You know, you're, you know, if
you could work on your queuing, we're going to give you an
opportunity to re submit a videoand re So you have somebody as
frustrating and disappointing and emotional as that is, but at
least you're getting that feedback versus just not knowing
(14:20):
what the hell or taking something.
So, and as young instructors trying to build out your craft
and your just access to picking up classes, you are going to
certify and all different thingsbecause you want to be able to
get on a schedule and have maybetwo or three classes in a row,
whether it's I go from bar to math, Pilates to the strength
(14:41):
training or a cycle. So in those regards, it's great
to be able to to get all those different certifications,
continue your education, keep adding to your own, you know,
resume of expertise. But where does it go from here?
And at at some point it just, itdoes feel like it becomes a
money grab because there's nothing new going on in any of
(15:05):
the, you know, formatting or it's like really cycling is
cycling. Like, what do you mean?
Now you're now you're telling uswe can stand in this position
versus the last 20 years. We couldn't or, you know, so it
just becomes kind of frustrating.
I wish there was a way. I don't know, I don't know what
(15:27):
the answer is. I, I love that they want you to,
to stay active and be accountable, but how do you,
what is the value like? How do, how do you make it worth
your? Well, I'm going through another
nightmare with alpha right now because I, you know, I submitted
all my stuff. You know, that's the other
thing. If you go to an outside source,
you've got to write a letter, e-mail it to their board to get
(15:50):
approval because it's not a NASAmanapa.
They do offer, they do offer free, but it's like one credit,
2 credits. So as Darian was saying, like,
you know, you could pull your hair out trying to find all
those freebies and they're goingto be about really random and
bizarre stuff. Like I remember during the, it
was like, you know, teaching during COVID, like after COVID,
(16:12):
they're like, oh, we have free credits.
Teaching during COVID. I'm like, really like taking
just to take credits and get it done.
You know, you don't want it to feel like that's that's what
it's about. Like, Oh my God, I'm only doing
this because I need these 12 credits and I'm so out of my
mind and I'm just taking anything.
You just want there to be a quality factor and I don't know
(16:34):
what the answer. Is.
I think the point on feedback isreally interesting because
without that, like how do you know that what you're learning
is actually making you a better trainer, making you better at
what you're doing? If you'd like are not actually
seeing any change in the outcomeor getting feedback from
somebody that is qualified, How do you know that you you just
like checked a box? You took some quiz and some
(16:55):
people just test well, maybe there's like tests that you take
and you can you can check that off and do well, but does that
actually translate to being a better trainer?
And I think having a system for that obviously requires more
overhead. It's like why we have
standardized testing. It's an easy way to just like
check a box and filter out a lotof people, but it doesn't really
like get to the the heart of thecraft and and will gaining
(17:18):
anything with yo. The yoga teacher training, so I
did 200 hours and 300 hours and it was really, it was I think
harder than the NASM and NASM like was I thought honestly the
information there for a first time certified personal or
personal trainer, I thought was amazing.
And I really enjoyed the anatomyand understanding how the body
(17:40):
moves. And I really do think it's like
great information and really important.
And there were some addendums from years past where they're
like, actually based on this, this, this, this is not the best
thing to do. I don't know if you guys know
plow holes. That one was like a big one for
me. Right.
For years we didn't do it. Now you're kind of doing it like
(18:02):
a shoulder stance or you're doing plow again.
Yeah. And so I thought that was really
interesting and getting all of that.
But with the yoga, you do have to basically you go through the
whole hours and you audition in front of the teachers and they
will give you cues and you're auditioning throughout the
course of the 200 and 300 hours and auditioning.
Meaning like you're teaching classes, either teaching the
(18:23):
people around you or you're doing like free classes.
And I think Pilates is a great example of that as well.
You have to go through 100 hoursof teacher training, like actual
like you're teaching before you can technically be a Pilates
instructor. So I think that's really
important because in person and like actually working with
someone is very different then what's just like understanding
(18:48):
what a trap is, what a bicep is and how like on paper what that
looks like. So I do I think that would be
really nice if there was somehowan in person session for like a
first time trainer. And maybe that's, and I know
like some gyms will obviously like guide you a little and like
you can shadow, but I think there should be a little more
(19:10):
oversight with that because I definitely know people that just
do it test well and then they don't really, it doesn't that
what they learn doesn't translate into what they're
doing. Well, and and personal training
is different from group fit. You know, you could be a great
personal trainer, but to try andget in front of a room of
anywhere from 12 to, you know, 54, you know, all level open
(19:35):
level participants and think youcan lead them and coach them and
have eyes on every. It's a it's, it's a different
dynamic and, and skill set. So it's, I mean, very, very few
times and I've been at my one studio, which is a main, you
(19:55):
know, pretty, it's a pretty established gym in in my area.
I don't think my boss. Maybe once in 20 years has taken
one of my strength training classes.
I mean, it's wonderful that she trusts me and knows my level of
just self commitment to excellence.
But you know, you do a 5 minute demo if anything, or it's word
(20:17):
of mouth a lot of times, right? How you get hired and then
you're kind of on your own to figure it out.
And if your class is struggling,you're trying to figure out why
and you don't have any feedback or guidance from a manager.
I mean, it's not like you reallyhad the you didn't have a lot of
the hand holding or I love the idea of the hours, but I just, I
(20:40):
don't know, even in regular group fit.
That would be amazing if they ifstudios could do that or gyms
could do that. But I guess it's a big ask
because there's so many options from small boutique, you know,
vertical spaces to big box corporate gyms, you know, So how
do you how do you facilitate getting them all to create
(21:04):
training mentoring programs? Yeah, it's definitely a big
lift, Joe. Now what about Orangetheory?
I'm curious about how it works there.
I mean, I know about Orangetheory probably just like
a general person does, but what's the certification
recertification aspect like there?
So, so just like any gym, so youjust have to be personal
(21:26):
training. Well, when I first started in
2013, you had to have a personaltraining certification, you had
to have your CPT. And now they kind of loosened it
up a little bit to where you could have like a group training
one because obviously it's a group of people.
And kind of to Marilyn's point, like once you get that
certification, you've got 45 different types of bodies,
(21:46):
different type of personalities.Like that certification really
doesn't do you justice. So hopefully it's on like the
studio to then come in and trainyou and to help you.
And Orangetheory's awesome because they super train you on
the template because that's the goal so that everybody can
repeat the same workout, whetheryou're in Colorado or whether
you're in Texas or wherever. But where they miss some mark is
(22:08):
those personal touches. Because if I don't know if this
person can do a squat, I kind ofjust let them do their thing
versus like this person's going to get hurt.
So over the years, they've have done a lot more like in studio
training to where they call it now.
They call it your orange eye. So you're supposed to go to
people that look like they're going to hurt themselves 1st and
then you kind of tailor. But if you've never like had a
(22:30):
room of 45 people, like that's hard to do because you just
don't know what you don't know. So I liked kind of Maryland's
idea of maybe doing more the in person training or the
certification. I'm sure people would pay $1000
if it was like a three day workshop.
It's kind of what they do more so long theory.
So once you get certified, you do go through a training
(22:50):
process, but it's still most more on like the template, the
intervals, like the programming itself first.
It's like if this person has knee issues, what do you do?
This person has back issues, what do you do?
Like that's, that's kind of the hard part.
And I think that's what makes you a really good trainer or
really not so good. And not to anybody's fault.
You just don't, you just don't know what you don't know.
(23:11):
And unfortunately, I think that's what stops most like
really good group coaches from getting to be better is that
they don't want to make those corrections or they don't want
to hurt somebody more. So they end up kind of pulling
back because you don't you can'tjust read it and then go adjust
somebody because you just don't know what it looks like in real
life. So they have gotten better with
(23:31):
like they're in part like with training and coaching.
But I think ultimately, like most of the gyms that I've
worked for, it's mainly for likethe insurance purpose, not so
much that you can get better andreally adjust people, which is
fair, which is understandable because it's still a business at
the end of the day. But if ultimately somehow the
like NASAM or a somehow put it on the company to do the
(23:53):
training, I think that would be kind of helpful too.
I don't know how you would do that.
But then that forces like the managers and the head coaches
and those people actually get inthere and help them get better
versus just like a piece of paper.
I know. I also know that a lot of gyms
like don't really stop or not hire someone because their
(24:13):
certification lapsed. So that's like also another
thing where I and I don't ever like, I think it is again really
important to stay on top of yourown like understanding and
training because I've done continuing education through
like yoga and also I've been taught by like physical
therapist and all that stuff. It's just not NASM or ACE or
(24:36):
anything like those kind of certifications, but where I was
like, Oh yeah, but you yeah. Like I just, I don't think I, I
just, I wouldn't want someone tohave to go through the whole
process again and pay $1000 whenit's like really not necessary.
Like top studios like Equinox, you can have a lapse to
(24:58):
certification and they will not say no.
If you're a good training, you'll have to I.
Have no clue about that really. Yeah, that Julie and I learned
that early on when we were starting like the Fit for All
company, we I was like big on like wanting to make sure
everyone had at least a certification only to find out
that mine had just lapsed. And then everyone else that we
(25:21):
were like getting their certifications were like, oh,
these are all lapsed and they work at Equinox, They work at
like this. And I mean, they're all really
good trainers. It's just I and now I'm totally
one of them. I'm like, I don't want to pay
$1000 for this. It's for just.
Like further, yeah. It's pretty common are.
You because like as a, as a trainer, if you have to take
(25:42):
time off, you lose your income. So you also, I'm not going to be
$1000. You don't make the, you know, 2
or $300.00 of what it is too. That's probably why please like
at Orange Theory, like people let it lapse.
They're like, well, I can't takeoff.
Unfortunately, it's kind of the nature of the business too.
The less you train people, the less money you make.
So it is kind of like a not a trap, but there's just no good
(26:04):
way to do, no good way to like get recertified.
And, and you're not guaranteed, you know, hours or a class just
because, you know, I, I finishedmy 200 hours in April and it's
as you know, Caroline and maybe everyone else, it was thousands
of dollars, thousands. I mean, I'm still paying it off
(26:25):
my credit card because, and I'm subbing a class tonight.
I'm subbing tonight. But I didn't, you know, and I, I
worked for like 3 really tremendous gyms and locations
and I don't have a set class yetbecause what's open, you know,
there's no necessarily, there's no time.
And then they're going to start,you know, nobody's going to just
(26:46):
create a window for me at a premium to.
But so you have that frustrationof, well, I'm bar certified, but
I don't have a, a specific bar class.
I'm this certified. But so it it's kind of
frustrating. Yeah, I think that's where the
online starts to grow because ofthat issue.
(27:08):
A lot of people are getting certified.
There's not. There's only so many hours in
the day. But along with that, something I
did see pop up on nauseam was like becoming like getting
certified to become like a influencer, like a fitness
influencer. And I was like, yeah, they've
had a lot a plot. Pay for that.
(27:29):
Yeah, let me let me make sure I'm not making this up because I
remember seeing it and it was like a person like holding
their. Yeah, I don't think you are.
I feel like I've seen that in the past.
I mean, listen, years ago they tried to do like local the
biggest loser coach when that show was on TV, they wanted to
connect you and I remember like submitting a resume for it.
(27:50):
And they're like, hold on. We're trying to find jersey
people that try to interview or are different for the biggest
loser show and we're going to see who's in your area.
And then it just fell apart. But I think you're right.
I think they're. Yeah, social media fitness
influencer maximize the reach and your impact by growing
social media. It's unbelievable.
(28:11):
It's $21.00 a month. How?
Many credits. You have to put down $49.00.
You have to put down $49.00 plusthe 12 payments so it's like
close to. C credits for it.
Maybe we all need to do it, yeah?
I don't even know if it counts towards your credits.
(28:31):
I don't know. I was like, I can't.
Handle. This, this is like too much for
me. Like this, you shouldn't have.
Told me yeah, yeah, I know. I like that.
Part of me was like, I almost don't even want to bring this up
but when I saw that I was like, we're done.
We're it's so. Embarrassing.
This is it, honestly. Yeah.
It's so embarrassing. Come on.
(28:53):
Yeah, I mean, they're making money where they know it can be
made. So yeah, it's just for the
proof. It's really business.
Yeah, that's another thing like that is I'm going to bring it
back to Pilates again. And also with yoga teacher
training, I think there are somelike downfalls with it in terms
(29:14):
of for specifically for yoga teacher training, there's no
governing body that like says, oh, this is good, this is bad.
They're trying to grow that because there are some people
that make that should not be creating teacher training
programs that make a lot of money off of it that have
honestly not gone through it themselves.
So that's like, not great, but Ithought you had.
(29:35):
To go through Yoga Alliance. It's not required really.
You, everyone, everyone that I tell, I'm like make sure that
you're, whomever you're doing itwith has gone through Yoga
Alliance and that it has become like more of a norm within the
past five years. But it's not a requirement.
But I do like though that it's like again, more in person stuff
(29:59):
and more like hands on if it's agood program for Pilates, I know
people like audition to even getor like what's the word not
audition interview to even become potentially to go through
the instructor certification process.
So not that I want to make it like Elite or harder to do.
(30:21):
It's just a social media fitnessinfluencer.
I if that's like the governing body that is like doing like
NASM, it has this, then I think it's a money grab at that point.
And it's, like, unbelievable. Less trustworthy, yeah.
Wow. So wait, wait, let me back up
here because my mind is too. This is too much for me.
It's actually too much for me. I have to like reel this back in
(30:44):
for me. So Equinox, you were saying they
were just OK with letting trainers certifications lapse
basically? Yeah, From what I've seen, it
might be based on like specific gym, like studio that we saw
like all, yeah, different locations.
I don't know if they manage it differently but every single
(31:06):
person that had gotten one it's was like a couple years expired.
Yeah. And we don't know if that was
during the hiring process or if they had an active cert when
they joined and then they just didn't follow up.
I think it was a little bit of both.
Yeah, I they for sure, Yeah, they definitely because I know
Equinox will cover the cost of the like whatever certification
(31:28):
you go through if you like work for them.
So a lot of people will then work at Equinox get their
certification, but I just I haven't seen any like, oh, you
have to re up it it's expiring type of.
Yeah. This is, you know, I, I ran a
club for 10 years and, and it was, it was in 33 countries.
So there was a lot of diversity with different clubs.
(31:50):
Some of them are private clubs, you know, Hoas, recreation
facilities, hotels, spas. And I, I know for sure that
there were places that just the directors didn't check to see if
the trainers or group back if they actually recertified.
And and I was always like alwaysa problem, but it always just
(32:12):
made me feel like, do we even take this seriously?
Is it like letting people work? Like, do we even care actually
about this, you know? Even with like with independent
training, like, I've never had aclient ask me, can I see your
certs like they don't know what that means they.
Don't know they. Don't they trust that if you say
you're a trainer and you like give them a good session and you
(32:34):
are helping them reach their goals, they're like, they don't
even think about it. So like, I think it's, yeah.
This further proves the point that it's really, it's a
corporation at this point. And like there's value.
I think to an extent it's I, Yeah, it's.
I mean, I, I think that I think they're trusting the honor roll
system and I, you know, my gyms ask, you know, might we get like
(32:58):
a reminder 6 months before that our certifications are coming to
an expiration at one of my main gyms.
The other one is, has a lot of their own branded programming.
It's a lifetime facility. So, you know, interestingly
enough, part of the conversationI was having earlier with
another GFI was the young gal that's now teaching cycle.
(33:24):
And it's great she was promoted from within.
Like she came out of the the child care room, but she only
did the in house training of their branded, one of their
branded cycling's. So she doesn't have a Johnny G
or a or a cycle certification from an actual, you know, just
(33:47):
authentic cycling module and program.
She's just doing the one versionof lifetimes, you know, like amp
ride, you know, or what would belike a soul cycle ride.
So, you know, that I think that was part of the reason why she
didn't even know the the mechanics of the bike that it
(34:10):
had a lever and it has an odometer and how to set the seat
and, you know, clip in the shoes.
And, you know, do is do you blame her or do you blame the
management who's just pushing a kid through who's enthusiastic,
wants to teach but is putting everybody at risk?
You know, when you when you build in like, oh, I can just
(34:34):
go, I don't have to get, I don'thave to get certified in a
professional way. I just can just get picked up
there and you know, do their online school, you know, their
course trainings and you know you can't.
She's not taking that anywhere outside of lifetime and think
she's getting hired. And if she does, shame on that,
you know, gym owner or or studioowner even more.
(35:01):
Well, I think that's to Maryland's point kind of the
hard part, right? Because we need, we tell people
I have to have the certificationand then it kind of falls on the
company to either train them or to support them or to help them.
So even if the even if that certification lapse like there's
still no support to help them get better.
So it's almost like it should belike that paper I'm sure is
required for insurance purposes as far as I understand with
(35:24):
Orangetheory, because when Orangetheory was like smaller,
they didn't really care about it.
Like it was more just did you follow the template?
Did you follow the program? And the good coaches, the one
that clearly had a bad friend, you could obviously tell.
So those ones got better and better where people would just
like constantly drop off and that's not full either.
So I feel like that kind of takes the fitness industry back
a little bit with all these justkind of like random people and
(35:47):
random instructors doesn't like help the credibility.
But at the same time, like there's got to be somebody after
that certification to help you get better and to help you know
how to do this in real life. Otherwise it just kind of falls
flat. But.
I mean, it really needs to be the GFM or the Group X director
and a lot. I mean, I know even like my one
(36:08):
Group X manager, she's not even certified.
She's really like an admin gal. She knows how to use the
computer and make a pretty poster to promote, you know,
Julie's Pilates, you know, pop up class.
But she's, she's not certified to give feedback or show
somebody. And I mean, I've been in a
position at at my one club wherenew girls have come in and it I
(36:32):
was so thankful that my boss waslike, she just got certified.
Will you? And she graciously was like,
I'll give you like half your half rate or I'll pay you for 30
minutes if you can mentor her for like, you know, but we got
like 4, you know, 2 full hours or, you know, four half hour
(36:55):
sessions. And and then they're like, yeah,
OK, she's good. Because they don't want to pay.
She don't want to pay me anymore.
So, you know, I spent like the better part of, you know, less
than a full 7 day work week trying to help one or two
younger instructors. I mean, there's still girls
teaching in a mirror. You know, they're not even
they're your their butts are in your face versus them facing you
(37:17):
and having like understanding what your instructor right is
and leading a class, looking at the audience or, you know,
setting everybody up and being able to be comfortable and
confident enough in their own ability, but also to go up and
say, Hey, is it OK if I touch you?
I just want to yeah, help you out.
You're doing great. But just here's my hand.
Push back. Don't push.
See how you're pushing into my your knees, pushing into my
(37:39):
hand, shift your hips back. And yeah, great, Now you got it.
Terrific. You don't even have people doing
understanding and doing the basics like that.
I mean, I'm horrified sometimes when I actually take a class and
you know, you see the bad form on a clean press or squat or a
lunge and or or plank, you know,I mean, half of them are doing
(38:01):
weird versions of a down dog, you know, and A and a neck
strain. So, you know, how do you get
group fit managers and and directors to take take the
anybody you know, shadow go in. Like somebody was saying it like
shadow the classes go in, give ait doesn't have to be 100 hours,
(38:22):
but maybe it needs to be, you know, 30 hours within a AA28 or
one month cycle. Get to 30 hours of classes or,
you know, get to my, you know, get to the, the manager's
classes or let make sure the manager gets in.
The manager needs to get in and and be and be taking the classes
and giving constructive feedback.
(38:43):
You know, that's how you learn. This doesn't sound promising.
I'm just going to be honest here.
It doesn't sound. Great.
Yeah, I, I honestly think and I,I think it really comes down to
the studio and the gym for them to take responsibility over
(39:05):
whomever they're hiring. And I do think based on like
when I interviewed at Spaces andwhen I worked at Spaces,
obviously it looks bad on the studio if they have a bad
trainer. So there is a level of, for the
most part that I've seen of studios kind of taking a bit
more responsibility over their trainers when they first come
(39:27):
on. And a good example is Equinox,
like you, you have to work the floor for 8 hours or something
hit a certain amount of hours before you can like start being
like a personal trainer out likeon your own time.
And so I think there, I think a lot of studios do have that, but
I do wish that that was part of kind of the governing body of
(39:47):
becoming a personal trainer. And I think it sounds like we're
all kind of in agreement with that, that learning online is
very different than trying to actually come in person.
And again, everyone's body is different.
So you really have to see it to understand it.
And yeah, that's just not part of the program.
No, no, it's definitely not. And I feel like as many people
(40:11):
I've talked to those over the years that feel like the
recertification process and the whole deal is they're just
trying to get through it. They're not excited about it.
So like, and you're and you're like, oh, I want to learn,
continue to get better. That's like the hope for the
industry and for individual people.
But everyone I talk to feels like it's just like something
that's in the way for them. It's like, oh, I got to do this.
(40:33):
It's an. Obligation.
It's a burden. It's a burden and an obligation,
and it takes the fun out of it. That's exactly right.
Passion out of it because you'vegot to get these.
You're worried you're just right, you're just worried about
the Cecs and what? And that's why you do scramble
online because you know, when you're you're probably working a
full time job, you're teaching classes as a as a passion side
(40:58):
gig, you maybe have a dog or a family or a significant other or
somebody. Like there's so many other
distractions and obligations in your life that you do start
saying like, Oh my God, what canI do online that I can just get
in, get done, race through it, submit the forms, you know, keep
my fingers crossed it all gets approved and I submitted it.
(41:18):
All right. And just know I'm good for
another two years. You know, it, it kind of, I
mean, that's at this point in mylife, there have been many an an
honest moment where that's all it was for me is just ruling
through it to make sure I, I cuzyou don't ever want to have to
go back to your primary cert. You know, that's just God awful.
(41:39):
And another, you know, couple $100 to be like, really, you
know, you kick yourself if you let it expire.
But then I think, Caroline, you were saying it 'cause I have the
NASAM AFFA, like buy for life, you know, pay 500 now and, you
know, be automatically. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait a
minute, what did I pay $500.00 for if it's not automatically
(42:02):
renewing me and you're telling me that I still need it lately.
So yeah, I'm like, what did I just, oh, I don't have to submit
the $25 every time. I'm, I just paid 1000 for 12
credits. So yeah, it makes you wonder
what the hell your money is going to.
I, I, it's funny because I have to and it's, and I'm like, you
(42:26):
know, it's like the PTS syndromeof I have an e-mail from them, I
and I have to go back and find it because it's, I submitted all
my yoga credits and I'm like, Ohmy God.
I just read the headline. Hi.
You know, we saw you did something and I'm like, oh, no,
Oh no. What, what did I do now?
And I it's like on my list to goback and do and get on the phone
(42:49):
and wait for 2 1/2 hours callingCalifornia to get connected to a
live person, you know, to try and talk my way out of.
What do you mean I didn't do it right, you know, or, or what am
I missing or what? How much more money do I need to
pay to get it approved? Yeah, so true.
(43:10):
But you know, listen, we love it, We love what we do and for
the most part, I would imagine we all have a great impact on.
So, you know, I, I was corporateinterviewing for a job a week or
two ago and the woman was like, you're you, you teach exercise.
And I'm like, I save at least 10lives a day like we are.
(43:34):
So our words, our movement, you know, even a song on your
playlist. I'm sure we all have that
experience of somebody thanking you at the end of the class or
the training session for really just, you know, saving their
life in that moment. And that in itself is so
gratifying. You know, it's our passion.
(43:57):
So we're all going to keep plugging along and hoping it
gets better. And if it doesn't, we're still
going to plug along and keep ourcertifications active and know
that we truly make a difference in the lives of our members, you
know? Yeah.
Wow. Amazing.
I learned something. Very.
You know, Caroline, I really wish you didn't bring that up.
(44:17):
You blew my mind today. You can go back.
You blew my mind and it's not a good way.
It's not a good way. It's it's I just and it's funny
and I really from our first podcast together, you know,
unfortunately I get hooked sometimes into the schemes
(44:38):
considering. Yeah, we know I remember that
came out like do I this because I got like an e-mail about it or
something and I was like, oh, aninfluencer package.
Yeah, thankfully they'll. Ask your revenue.
So do you buy that and then put influencer?
Like IST and certified, certified, certified.
(45:02):
I think it was like ISM or something like that, like
influencer social media or something like that.
Yeah. Do you see anyone with like nods
on ISM? Yeah.
And it's, I think it turns out being probably like $500.
Yeah. MoneyGram.
Yeah, if it's 12 credits, I might have to do it.
(45:24):
I think, I don't know if it associates to credits, but yeah,
if it's 12 credits I I'm sure it's like point O1.
Oh God, Point O yeah, I know. Man, wow, what a conversation.
I this is better than I even thought.
These, I love these topics. These are amazing topics for us
to discuss and gosh, a lot of our colleagues need to listen to
(45:48):
this one especially. There's a lot, if nothing else,
just to hear the craziness that's coming out.
ISM all day, all day ISM. Well, thank you everyone for
being here. I really appreciate your time,
your effort, and Julie and Caroline, thanks for always
being here for this trainer talkseries that we have.
Appreciate everyone's time. Have an awesome rest of your day
(46:11):
and look forward to getting thisone out for sure.
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