04. My Fearless Road: A Transformational Journey from Bullying to Bravery with Michael Devous Jr.

Have you ever felt the sting of bullying? Well, let me tell you, I have. In honor of National Anti-Bully Awareness Month, Michael Devous Jr. takes center stage in a candid conversation with his sister and guest host, Phaedra. But this time, the roles are reversed as Phaedra turns the spotlight on Michael to delve into his personal journey of being bullied, from his early childhood to recent encounters in the workplace.

Bullying isn't just a personal story; it's a societal issue with profound implications. In this heartfelt episode, we journey with Michael as he shares his experiences, starting from his very first bully. Through raw and honest conversations, we explore how different people in his life, from teachers to peers, manifested bullying and how his parents' distinct philosophies shaped his approach to handling these difficult situations.

But here's the twist—this episode isn't just about victimhood. It's about resilience and strength. Michael opens up about how adversity can be a powerful source of inner fortitude and how modern parenting, with its increased involvement and commitment to continuous education, can rewrite the narrative around bullying.

As the discussion unfolds, societal norms that stifle self-expression are challenged, and the importance of fostering open dialogues with children is illuminated. And guess what? There's a silver lining to that dark cloud of bullying. This episode also reflects on how these painful experiences can teach valuable lessons. Learn how bullying can foster resilience and how our own journeys can empower us to support our children through their struggles.

So, are you ready to join Michael on this transformative journey down The Fearless Road? Tune in as we uncover the deeper layers of bullying, explore its societal impact, and discover how self-love and fearlessness can light the path toward becoming the greatest versions of ourselves.

Join us on this emotional and inspiring episode, and let's embark together on The Fearless Road to a brighter, bully-free future.

Don't miss it—listen now!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, welcome to episode four of the
Fearless Road podcast.
I'm your host, Michael DeVue.
I am out on a walk in theforest so please pardon the
quality of the sound.
And this week episode four isour bullying episode.
It's National Anti-BullyingAwareness Month and in honor of
that, I share my own personaljourney with bullying and my own

(00:23):
personal stories andexperiences, and my sister,
Fedra, is my interviewer.
She comes and joins me instudio to ask me some of these
really hard-hitting questionsand to get a little deeper
insight into my own personalexperience with bullying.
Trigger warning there's somecausing, there's some discussion

(00:44):
of violence, sexual abuse,other things like that.
So be forewarned.
This may not be appropriate forchildren or teens, but maybe
having any discussion with themis key, Maybe making sure that
they are included in thediscussion and that you continue
to discuss in a home to helpthem understand what bullying is

(01:07):
, how they can speak up and bepart of the action to change it.
Yeah, anti-national,anti-bullying awareness month.
Episode four of the FearlessRoad.
Thank you for coming on thisjourney with me.
Thank you for sharing it withme.
Thank you for allowing me theopportunity to discuss my truth.
I hope you enjoy it.

(01:28):
It gets a bit controversial.
I'm sure I'll piss off a fewpeople, but it's my opinion,
it's my perspective and it's myexperience and hopefully that
will resonate with a few people.
So enjoy, Stay fearless, bewell, be good to each other and

(01:49):
I will see you on Fearless Road.
Bye, Okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Fearless Road
podcast Episode, I believe, four.

(02:11):
This is what we're going to tryto do.
If I cut this out, then you'llknow what we won't know.
So I've been having struggleswith my platforms, with my
software, with my recording,with my audio a number of things
getting consistency.
I hope and pray that thisepisode is quality and is good
for you, and I will do my best,of course, to make sure that

(02:32):
that's the case.
But I do want to preface thatthis has been an ongoing
struggle for me to getconsistent quality of my
recordings so that you, thelisteners, and you, the viewers,
are receiving consistentquality across the board.
That being said, none of it hasbeen consistent, None of it has
been the same quality, and I amnot an editor.

(02:53):
So I've done my best andhopefully you've enjoyed what
you've been listening to andwhat you've been watching, and
I'll get better.
It will get better and we'llmove on from there.
So today's episode, this episode, we are celebrating National
Antibody Awareness Month for themonth of October, which is such

(03:17):
an important message, I think,especially when you think about
the fact that 25%, more than aquarter of all of us, students
and otherwise, experiencebullying, especially in school.
National Anti-BullyingAwareness Month, which is

(03:40):
important for so many differentreasons.
Obviously, it is important tome because it is, it was my
experience.
In fact, if I look back at mylife and I look back at what,
how my life was shaped andformed, it was the original
foundation of my life.
It was the, it was the, notprimitive, it was the primal,

(04:07):
the yeah, main original sourceof influence, I would say, in
how my life was shaped, how myconstitution, my character, my
upbringing, my youth was shaped,informed and impacted, was

(04:27):
bullied and I've experienced itthroughout my life, In fact, as
recent as 2021, you know, by acoworker and it's nonstop and
it's pervasive and it existseverywhere in society and it
exists in our workplaces, itexists in our school systems, it
exists in our neighborhoods, itexists everywhere and it's bad,

(04:52):
it's just bad and it shouldstop.
We should not treat each otherthis way.
We should not bully people andpeople should not bully us.
And there's somehow, there'sthis idea of a power dynamic
that I feel better when I harmyou, that I feel better by
putting you down, pushing youdown, and especially when it's

(05:14):
done in public, in front ofothers, my sense of power, my
sense of worth.
Somehow we are rewardingbullies because they wouldn't do
it if they weren't gettingsomething out of it.
So here we are.
This will be out at the 30th ofOctober, the very last, almost

(05:35):
the last day of the month ofOctober.
I apologize, but it is a way toclose out the month.
It is a way to close outNational Anti-Bully Awareness
Month.
It is a way to close out amonth worth of social media
posts and blogging andeverything that tries to draw
more attention and time andvoices to this message.
And for this particular episode, which is a very special

(05:55):
episode for me, it's also a veryspecial episode for my sister,
Phaedra, who is on the calltoday and is my co-host Well, is
my host today.
She's going to be interviewingme and she's going to be asking
me questions and I'm in the hotseat this time.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So, yeah, you guys are going to get a little more
insight into me hopefully andmaybe you'll like it and we'll
see.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
So welcome to the episode, the bullying episode.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
We will see.
You know, Welcome to theepisode and before we go any
further, I'm sure people havethis instinct but to clarify,
there will be mention of verbal,physical, psychological and
potentially sexual abuse in thisepisode.
So trigger warning, be aware,don't listen around little ears.

(06:47):
And if those are things youhave a problem with, then maybe
this is not the episode for you.
But with that being said, let'sjust dive right in with you,
michael, and let's talk aboutwhen did bullying begin for you
and Adon, who was your firstbully?

Speaker 1 (07:12):
I, if you recall.
It's funny when I recall mychildhood and I mean this in
terms of preteen kind ofchildhood I look back fondly on
my preschool, kindergarten,preschool days where I felt I

(07:33):
felt, to a certain degree, likeI had good friends and I had
good buddies.
I will say that I had teachersthat were bullies.
Now, this was the 80s no, sorry, this was the 70s and one of my
teachers was a former nun whobrought that kind of behavior

(07:57):
and I went to.
By the way, I did go to privateschool too.
I went to a Catholic school andmy teachers there were mean and
I don't know if that's bullyingso much as they had a way, I
mean most of us who were membernuns in the way they taught us
and wrapped us on the knuckleswith our, with those rulers,
yeah, with the rulers To methat's bullying.

(08:20):
So I suppose that would havebeen my first Would be the
people that were there to carefor me, teach me and guide me
Began the process of treating melike less than or what have you
.
Now, simultaneously, I will sayI had a sexual bully because at
that time I was being molestedfrom age 5 to 7.

(08:44):
So I was being bullied by mybabysitters.
If you want to think of sexualmolestation as a type of
bullying, because it's a powerdynamic, I think it falls into
the category absolutely.
But then the real bullying beganin middle school.

(09:04):
And that's where I feel likethe torture began For me, the
playground torture, the coupledwith and I've always had
teachers that did not back me up, but I also had teachers that
participated in that behavior,so mine started pretty early, I

(09:29):
would say.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
So let's skip to this one, because I feel like it
just kind of flows better, eventhough I had it laid out
differently.
So I know that each of yourparents had different individual
philosophies on how you shouldbe dealing with your bullying.
So let's start with how yourparents found out you were

(09:55):
getting bullied, and then what?

Speaker 1 (09:57):
the conflicting messages were Well, it's
probably the same way mostparents find out is that your
child is a problem child.
Most bullying situations you'veseen it in movies the bully
never gets caught.
It's the person who responds,it's the person who's getting
bullied, who acts out in eitherself-defense or whatever.
That gets caught nine times outof ten and they're the ones who

(10:21):
get to go to the principal'soffice and I was at the
principal's office constantlybecause I was getting into
fights and you know bothchildren are being punished.
Nobody cares about who the bullyis, it's just that the kids are
fighting.
You know it's a very differentworld in 1976 and 1978, and the

(10:46):
80s than it is today, todaythere's much more awareness.
There's certainly much moresupport.
You have school counselors, youhave that kind of stuff.
We didn't have that.
So there was no one to go talkto, there was no school
counselor, there was no sourcefor you to confide in and there

(11:10):
was no interest in your side ofthings.
Nobody cared about what yourside of it is.
You know Just two kids arecausing trouble and you're both
being punished If both of yougot caught.
Yes, I don't recall other thanmy bullies getting caught early,

(11:31):
and I think that's what makesbullies really good at being
bullies.
I think they know.
I think they know when toattack.
I think they know what to doand what to say.
I think they know how toprovoke and how to interrogate,
or gaslight, if you will, whichwe didn't have that term either.

(11:52):
I think they know when ateacher is looking and when a
teacher is not looking.
I think they've checked thosethings out and they're very good
at it.
They've got that skill set andthat gives them a sense of power
and authority over you.
Now, coupled with the fact thatmost of the bullies were also
bigger and stronger, and that'ssort of typical, I suppose, of a
bully.
I was always at the center ofit and my mom was a very

(12:23):
anti-violence person.
You don't solve things withfists.
You don't solve things withviolence.
She was Just ignore them,They'll go away.
Well, you must have donesomething to provoke them.
You must have said or donesomething to make them do X, Y
and Z.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
There's a lot of that .

Speaker 1 (12:41):
A lot of you know what are you doing that's
causing this.
My dad wanted me to learn howto defend myself.
My mom refused to let him teachme how to fight back, because
violence is not the answer, andyou're not supposed to date and
blah, blah, blah blah.
And so because I was not skilledat defending myself physically,

(13:01):
I became skilled at defendingmyself vocally.
I developed at a very, veryearly age a caustic and
sarcastic and biting wit andtongue.
I began to see character flawsin other people very quickly

(13:22):
that I could then use and callout when something was happening
.
It would and in antagonate,antagonize.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Antagonize.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Antagonize Right, I was thinking of interrogate.
It would antagonize them and itwould usually make things worse
, you know, for me, but it wasabout, it was my only recourse.
Really, I became so bound andconstricted and paralyzed by my

(13:58):
bullies that I would usually endup on the ground in a ball
covering my head and face toprotect myself and, yeah, field
position Crumbling, if you will,under it because I didn't know
anything else to do, and then Iwould get my shit out sideways,

(14:20):
I would, you know, later on,with sarcasm and passive,
aggressive, you know remarks andthings you know would get them
out and that, of course, wouldinstigate new retaliation from
bullies and from people, becauseI would piss them off and I
would have to say I mean, I wasmean, you know.

(14:42):
I would probably say I waspretty mean at some of the
things I would say about theseindividuals you know as my own
form of retaliation, because Ihad no other method and I had no
, I had no recourse or resource.
I had no other one to talk toabout these things, to find out

(15:02):
how to handle my emotions andhandle my thinking around it.
So it became a battleground.
School was a battleground.
Every day for me was abattleground of new forms and
styles of torture that I wouldhave to either take on and
endure or learn how to avoid andrun, or how to navigate the

(15:28):
space my spaces, I mean.
The constant energy that Ispent navigating my spaces to
avoid running into and dealingwith and getting caught by my
bullies is ridiculous.
It's absolutely fuckingridiculous that any child would
have to spend the amount ofenergy that I did trying to

(15:49):
figure out how to avoid certainhallways, how to get to my
locker, to get my things in acertain time period so I
wouldn't run into certain people, how to get to my bicycle,
where to park my bicycle, whereto lock up my bicycle.
I couldn't put it at the bikeracks because they knew that's
where I would go.
So now I had to come up withnew ideas and new ways of
parking my bike or locking mybike or hiding my bike or doing
something with it in order toget away from them.

(16:11):
It was, it was just nonstop andit was for years.
You know I had kids running.
I had kids would run, chase mehome from Dartmouth Elementary
with bags of shit, dog shit thatthey would throw at me.
Like who does this?
Like what children are beingraised to do this kind of stuff?

(16:32):
What kind of parents are wethat our kids are doing this and
we don't know?
You know?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well, and it makes me think from how you were
describing it earlier, the wholeyou know kind of character,
makeup of a bully sounds almostword for word like how one would
describe a narcissist.
So like are those two tiedtogether?

(17:02):
I wonder what the Venn diagramlike, how much overlap there is
between bullying and childhoodand like hardcore narcissism
later in life.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
That would be an interesting comparison to make.
Well, and, by the way you know,I would think that a lot of
these kids probably don't evenremember that they did it.
Half of them grow up and forgetcompletely that they even
behaved this way.
You know, like when you, therewas a couple of incidences where
I talked to people about highschool reunions, you know, who
had a very different perspectiveon how they treated me and how

(17:37):
I was.
You know, and it just shocks mesometimes that I wonder what
percentage of our own mentalfilters and perspectives helped
to create an environment or atleast let us think we were in an
environment that was worse thanit was.
That was, you know, and that'spart of it.

(18:00):
I mean, our perspective isbeing developed, our filters are
being developed.
When we're young and we see theworld, we experience the world,
we learn through the world fromour filters and through our
perspectives, which color andchange everything about what we
experience.
And if we're developing them atsuch a young age and we're
developing skewed filters withskewed perspectives on how we

(18:26):
are loved, appreciated andvalued in this world, what does
that do to us on our entire path?

Speaker 2 (18:37):
How does that affect?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
and shape every single choice we make for the
rest of our lives.
It has to impact it and colorit in a lot of different ways.
I'm very proud of my life andI'm very.
I won't take away any of theabuse.
I would never go back and say Iwish I was never raped, harmed,

(19:00):
bullied, punished, beaten,whatever those things are.
All the difficult tragediesthat I went through.
I don't wish them on anybody,of course, but I also know that
I am who I am today becausethat's part of my fabric, that's
part of the weave to mytapestry.
And my tapestry is a big,beautiful, large, colorful

(19:20):
experience of many differentthings, and to take those
threads out would change every,and I'm not saying it wouldn't
change it for the better.
I have absolutely no idea.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well, you don't know what you don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
And I heard a speaker .
I wish I could reference him.
I feel bad that I can'tremember.
He made a reference about whenwe teach children about
low-hanging fruit meaning here'swhat's available to you, here's
what you can reach, here's whatyou can grasp they will grasp,

(20:02):
always for the low-hanging fruit.
But when you teach a child whatis possible, they might reach
for the top of the tree.
And I wonder how many times Ijust reached for the nearest
low-hanging fruit Because, a Ithought that's what I deserved.

(20:24):
B I thought that's the onlything I could get.
And C I thought this is as faras my reach will go and I better
get that fruit If I'm going toget any at all, I guess.
I better get that fruit.
So for me, I think, when I lookback on it, I wonder would I

(20:54):
have been able to become more,would I have achieved something
more?
High school would not have beensuch a struggle for me
educationally, administrativelyand therefore I could have
excelled at certain things inschool, from a standpoint of
grades and acumen, that I didn'tachieve, Mainly because I was

(21:20):
so distracted by all the otherthings that I was dealing with.
So then, when I go on tocollege, I don't have good
grades, I can't get as much, Idon't get into good schools.
All of those things I feel likecould have been impacted and
might have been different had Ihad less abuse to deal with and
less distraction in my energy tonavigating the minefield.

(21:46):
that was my bullying and myexperience, and that's Lola by
the way, I'm sure.
If anyone heard her meow that's.
Lola, she's a little love bug.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I know, I tried to get her into bed and she's not
cooperating so she's on my lap.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
We love our children, our four babies.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
So let's go into, because you just kind of
discussed a little bit about howbullying shaped your life.
Do you feel that it made youstronger in any way?
Or, and if so, how do you feelabout that, knowing that you're

(22:39):
an anti-bullying activist?

Speaker 1 (22:43):
basically, so I've been thinking a lot about this,
because you and I have beentalking about this all month.
We've been exploring thisavenue and I've been exploring
some of my journal writings andsome of my stuff that I have, my
content that I have for myblogs and things that I want to
write that I want to put outthere, that I just got started
on this, so it's not likesomething.

(23:03):
I've been doing for a long time,although I have been writing
and I do have these stories.
I was struggling with the ideaof do I feel stronger because of
this and what I have come to,what I've decided?
I'm strong because of how Iresponded.

(23:25):
I am not stronger because ofthe bullying.
I think we can make strongchildren into strong adults
through a lot of different kindsof teaching and I don't think
bullying should be one of them.
I think you can make a strongcharacter and it builds strong
character and build a strongethics and strong moral fiber

(23:46):
and strong everything usingother methods.
And yes, am I stronger becauseof it?
Probably I probably havedeveloped a lot of certain
strengths and qualities I wouldnot have developed otherwise.
But are those in service of meor to a disservice of me?

(24:07):
And I think for a while theywere in service of me because
they helped protect me or theyhelped guide me or they helped
become a fuel that I used toburn myself, to prove myself, to
prove other people wrong.
This idea that I had of myself-worth and my self-value
came out of a world of bullyingand I responded to it.

(24:30):
Now there are others that Iknow, people in my life, friends
that I've had, who respondeddifferently to theirs, who
succumbed to the bully, whointroverted, who closed off
their light, who dumbed down,reduced themselves, made
themselves smaller, quietedtheir voice, hid and didn't

(24:55):
speak up and didn't share asoften and didn't express as much
and didn't volunteer and didn'tput themselves out there and
stopped growing and stoppedshining and stopped whatever,
and people who became victimsand used their victimhood status
to become part of theircharacter and their life and
their perspective and theirfilter, and that shaped them.
That wasn't me.

(25:16):
I was, I suppose, in some weirdway battle-ready and prepared
to take on everyone in the world, but that's also because I
thought I saw everyone in theworld as a bully.
I saw every opportunity andmoment as one where I had to be
in self-defense mode andprepared to defend myself, to

(25:41):
attack, to run, to hide, tonavigate, to you know.
And yeah, that built a lot ofskills and it built a lot of
really fucked-up skills that Ithen used because all I had was
a hammer when I needed ascrewdriver, because all I had
was a screwdriver when I neededa saw.
Like, I had only a certain setof skills and certain set of

(26:06):
tools in my toolbox that I usedto protect myself and to
navigate my world and theyworked great under certain
circumstances and didn't workwell under others, and because
of that, I believed that Inavigated towards the
circumstances where those toolsserved me best and that meant

(26:28):
more violence and more sabotageand more risk and more chaos
Because I understood how to playin that playground.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Mm-hmm.
So I have a touch of adifferent perspective.
I don't think that the bullyingmade you stronger.
I think that you were born witha very innate strength and
sense of fortitude.
I think it, probably.

(27:01):
I think the bullying broughtthose qualities forward earlier
in your life than may haveotherwise been necessary.
I mean, the rest of it ispretty spot-on.
But I don't think the bullyingmade you stronger.
I think you were strong tobegin with and it just brought
out your strengths.

(27:21):
Maybe not in the ideal way, butyou know it was the 70s and the
80s.
Bullying was A part of life.
It was, oh, you know, oh,whatever, michael's being
bullied again, oh, well, youknow.
And?
And how many parents in thisday and age Would just sit there
and go okay, well, don't ignorethem, go, you know it'll, it'll

(27:41):
work itself out.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Oh, everybody goes.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
You know, parents are getting over principles and
teachers involved and takingkids to therapy, which is all
great and all needed, and itjust sometimes it's just so
disappointing that parents wereso Out of it.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
I think they I mean we know they did the best they
could, and that's always acaveat.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
I know they did.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
For all of us, even the parents today, by the way.
If you're a current parent,guess what you did?
The best you could, you'regonna do the best you can, and
then someone's gonna look backand go well.
They did the best they could.
I don't know if that's goodenough.
I Don't know.
And I, and, and, and, while Ilove my parents and you know,

(28:28):
even though our mom's gone, butI Would, never blame her for any
of that, you know.
I mean, it would never blameeither of them for for it.
They did what they understoodhow to do, but I don't write, a
lot of which was passed onparents should sit back and go
well, I did the best I couldknow you gotta do better.

(28:49):
You have to be more engaged andmore involved in a way that says
I Want to make sure Iunderstand what my child is
going through and not dismissthose moments when their lives
are being affected by somethingin someone.
And I know you're busy and Iget that.
We all have, you knowdistractions and life takes on
these things and Sometimes ourkids don't even all us what's

(29:09):
happening to them and they don'tcommunicate.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
But we have one opportunity to get it right with
one chance and well, something,yeah, something I find very
Fascinating is and it's justkind of clicked into place in my
brain is we see so many peopleTalking about oh well, I'm going
, you know, I'm taking thiscontinuing education class so I

(29:34):
can do better at my job for this, or I'm gonna go to this
conference so I can learn moreabout that, or I'm gonna do this
and I'm gonna do that.
We study all of these differentthings and all of these
different aspects of our life.
How many parents are studyingand learning about being better
parents?
It's like so many people striveto be better in all of these

(29:59):
aspects of their life and thisone needs a little, a Little
help sometimes and there'snothing wrong with that, like we
shouldn't.
I think there's too muchreliance on the concept of
natural parenting skills and howfar they will take you in
developing your you know andhelping your child to develop

(30:20):
into the person that you wantthem to be, and I think there's
More of that out there.
I think there's content outthere for parents and, and, and.
Anyway, it just it makes mewonder how many people actually
do that well, not many.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
And we don't have to, because there's no requirement
to be a parent.
You can have sex and have ababy.
Oh, there's no, there's no classyou have to take.
There's no light you have tohave a license to drive a car or
fish or hunt or do anything.
You have to be trained and takea class on some.
But I will tell you, probably85% of all kids get it, that get
born, are born accidentally.

(31:03):
They're born because it wasn'tplanned, which means you weren't
ready, which means you weren'tprepared to be a parent, which
means, all of a sudden, yourparenting a child that you don't
know anything about.
You know nothing about thisother than what your parents
taught you.
And if that's an example ofwhat we have Our parents who
just did the best they could,and that's the caveat we leave
ourselves, that's the disc,that's the disclaimer Disclaimer

(31:24):
.
Every generation says Then, yeah, as a society, no, we're not
doing better as a society.
We don't put this first.
We don't have parenting classesin school.
They don't have classes onDevelopment, any kind of
character development of anykind, like how to become a
better person, ethics and moralsand standards.

(31:46):
We don't have any of that.
We leave that up to the Parents.
We live that up to the churchesin the schools, like women, the
churches.
We don't even leave it up tothe school.
So I'm not sure that I shouldbe surprised, or any of us
should be surprised, that we endup the way we do.
In fact, I am surprised.
I'm more surprised that wedon't end up with the worst
society, that we don't end upwith more terrifying situations

(32:08):
which we do, by the way.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
We're the number one country on the world today isn't
even more fucked up that it?

Speaker 1 (32:13):
I don't know the number one country in the world
with Killers and people killingchildren in schools.
Look at our society, I meanlook what we have.
Look at the record.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (32:21):
and then we wonder how could this happen?
Well, look at what we've gotand look at where we are, like
if we decided that this wasimportant to raise better kids.
We're not doing it.
We're simply not doing itAnywhere you know, some parents
are.
Congratulations to those of youwho take the time and really
make an effort, congratulationsto some of the schools that have

(32:43):
a really good program.
But when we look at a countrythat is developed on and based
on the idea of a free educationthat is consistent and equal for
all, which is not it's not atall period.
We are failing, we're failingour kids, we're failing our
future.
And if I mean that's the recipefor a disaster, how do we
expect to get great Americansand great and a great future out

(33:07):
of that recipe?
You know, especially when wedon't put time and energy into
ensuring that that what our kidsget in terms of their
experience Is a loving,embracing and knowledgeable and
accepting experience.
You know, and if we're going toallow the alternative by not

(33:32):
providing Better resources,better opportunity, better equal
, you know, class, theinstruction classes and
environments and saferenvironments, we have ourself to
blame.
We only have ourselves to blamefor what we get and we only have
ourselves to blame for the deadchildren and we only have
ourselves to blame for thebullying and for the pain and
the torture that it causes, andlifetimes of People who have

(33:54):
experiences and will continue tohave experiences, and kids that
will grow up with theseexperiences because we aren't
prepared to change, and that's,I Guess that's you know.
I don't know if that's mymessage, but I guess that's just
how it is, how I see it.
I suppose maybe that's me beingbitter, apologies for the birds
and the sounds, but Okay, sothat last conversation led us

(34:21):
into the the next questionperfectly.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
If you had children, what would you Teach them and
what would you tell them if theywere being bullied?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Well, and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of this
from from, from people out therewho are like you don't have
kids, you wouldn't know, andit's that kind of thinking that
means you're not ready to learn.
Mm-hmm, I, if you don't want tohear my story in my perspective
as a person who was bullied,then you don't want to hear
anyone else's either.

(34:57):
Like yeah, then just don'tlisten and keep on not listening
and don't change, like I getthat you may think because I
don't have kids, I don't knowwhich I think is bullshit.
We know we Lived through it.
We were kids once.
All of us have a story and allof us have a memory and all of
us have an experience that wecan call on.
That was not pleasurable andwas not good and was not kind,

(35:20):
and none of us likes it.
So, yeah, guess what?
You probably have a bully inyour life.
You probably have a kid who'sbe, who's going to bully someone
at some point I did.
I was bullied and then Ibullied like I used my mouth and
I got to bully other people.
You know, I mean, it'ssomething you learn and pass on
it, something you do.
It's reflexive.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Even when it's retaliatory, exactly even when
it's retaliatory, and I see itas self-defense.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
It is still a form of bullying, mm-hmm, and it harms
people, and so there is no spacein here where we get to give
ourselves and our kids a passjust because you think you know
better or your kids are better,or you think you because someone
else doesn't have kids, thatthey don't know better.
We can learn from everybody'sexperiences, and if we really
truly want to create a world ina better place where bullying

(36:07):
does not exist, then we have totalk to our kids, we have to
accept that we Mm-hmm may nothave the answers, but we need to
find out from them what's goingon.
So I guess if I had kids I wouldbe up there, but Probably With

(36:28):
wanting to know how things aregoing in school, I would be that
I would sneak in and monitor,like I would come to school and
be like I'll sit at the back ofthe classroom and be like I'm
watching, which is probablygonna make a worse experience
for my children, like, oh my god, my dad's here, like I Would
want to be that.
You know, I understand thathelicopter parenting thing like

(36:48):
you don't.
I mean you're hovering overthem constantly because you want
them to have a Good experience,but you're also wanting to
monitor who's behaving poorlyaround them and what kind of
influence are they having andwhat kind of things are they
going through.
And it's it's a verychallenging Way to be because,
on one hand, you want to leavethem to their own Experiences so
that they can develop their ownExperiences, they can make some

(37:11):
judgment calls about theirexperiences.
But at the same time, like youknow, I Guess I would.
I would, on the first thing, Iwould establish and develop a
way to have I would take classes, courses, whatever.
I Would teach myself how todialogue with a child.
I would, I would take some kindof class and I would have,
hopefully, a consistent andongoing relationship with a

(37:34):
therapist, psychologist,philosopher, whoever it is, who
is my Sounding board for myrelationship with my kids, so
that I could be always talkingabout what's Difficult and
challenging for me, so that Icould get feedback and advice
from somebody who knows well andknows better a Child
psychologist, if you will abouthow to communicate and how to

(37:57):
speak to and how to Relate to mykids.
I Do realize that by the timethey hit teens it's up in me
Game over.
I mean, you got a tiny littlewindow right there up to about
10 and 11 and then all of asudden they don't care what you
have to say anymore andeverything that comes out of
your mouth is well, well on.

(38:18):
They're never gonna hear you.
And that's just because they'retrying.
They're, they're going 90 milesan hour developing their own.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Person wanting to chart their own course.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, and they want to be different.
They want it'll want to be likeyou.
They want to be like somethingelse.
They don't know what it is, ofcourse, and they have no idea,
and if you ask them, theycouldn't tell you.
You know, give me a 500 wordessay and they wouldn't be able
to write 10 words on who theyare and what they've walked out
of life.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
But they could certainly say it isn't you and
it certainly doesn't look likeand then, when they grow up and
they reflect back, all of thebest qualities they have were
inherited from their parents orlearned or both, and that I can
say 100 freaking percent.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
My parents were awesome people.
My friend, my Okay mom wasawesome.
She's gone mom was my dad is.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Dad to be a person.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, and he's an incredible.
He's an incredible human beingand his wife is also.
You know, these are incrediblehumans that I have learned they
are to have and develop a Such abeautiful relationship with
that I didn't see when I was ateen, but I think that's
important.
I do think that that's part ofour right of passage, if you

(39:27):
will, for us to deny that whichis the expression of our parents
and what we see around us, sothat we can go out and become
our own thing.
The very Rejection ofeverything that was my parents
and what they wanted for me wasmy way of going and becoming and
finding my own path.
And I see a lot of kids thesedays who don't even do that, who

(39:48):
have no desire to try, have noambition to become anything
other than and don't look anddon't want us to get out of
their parents, home and thecomfort zone that is mom and dad
, that is the comfort blanket,that it is the, the, the
financial support and all thosethings they are fine with not
trying and getting out, and Ithink that's terrible.
I think they're not gonnadevelop.
I Don't think.

(40:08):
I don't think that necessarilythe way that.
I did it specifically is thebest way either, like rejecting
everything and going out andTrying everything until you
nearly cure yourself is not thebest way either.
But having a healthy sense ofadventure and risk, healthy
sense of risk.
Let me say this again having ahealthy sense of risk,

(40:29):
developing a healthy sense ofrisk, is a skill set that you're
going to do.
Whether your parents teach itto you or not.
You will develop your own senseof risk and if it is, if it is
a small, little, tiny version ofrisk, you're not gonna try
things in life.
You're not gonna try things inlife.
You're not gonna go out andgrow, you're not gonna expand
past the borders of your ownlittle experience and your own

(40:50):
little world and then you'regonna judge and you're having a
shortened and narrow perspectiveof the world around you and you
will be smaller.
So if you want to shine yourlight and you want to grow and
you want to be bigger, I wouldteach my kids to express
themselves, to find their mostauthentic voice, to not be
afraid of being shamed and beingtold that who and what you are
and how you dress and how youwant to express yourself is

(41:13):
wrong or bad.
And this society at where therewards conformity can go to
hell like Conforming is nothealthy.
I Don't name one scenario whereconforming is is good.
That isn't a result of anegative impact.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
No, and Brené Brown talks about the importance of
belonging versus the concept offitting in.
And if you're fitting in,you're changing yourself based
on the situation you're in where, if you belong, you're being
accepted for who you truly are.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
But that's because we have a society that rewards
conforming.
We have schools.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Well, it does, I think I think the pendulum is is
coming back the other way, andI I definitely with With the
people I know who are parents.
That's definitely where I see abig change compared to our
parents Is they're doing a muchbetter job of allowing their
kids to be who they are anddevelop into who they want to be

(42:20):
, without basically squashing itlike like we had yeah, well, I
mean, we're seeing.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
We were kind of, you know, to that point.
I think we're seeing thebattleground has been laid On
one side of this fence.
You've got parents like you'redescribing, who are embracing
and supporting and encouragingtheir kids to find Themselves
and to dress how they want andto wear makeup or not wear
makeup or whatever they need tobe to express themselves, to
find their true authenticity,right which?

(42:50):
by the way nobody wants to waittill they're 40 or 50 to figure
that out.
Like life's gone already halfof it's over by the time you go.
I'm not living my authenticlife and my purpose.
And then you wonder why you'renot happy and you wonder why you
struggle and you're Wonder whyyour relationships are good and
you wonder why your marriagefall apart.
Well, guess what?
It's because we are raised toconform and not be our authentic

(43:10):
selves.
And now the the battlegroundsare being laid and we've got
bullies out there like DeSantisand Abbott, grab gunner Abbott
and others who are Big timebullies telling us and our
children you can't learn this,you can't read this, you can't
express yourself this way, youcan't dress like that, you can't
be.
You have to be exactly what wetell you, you have to be

(43:32):
according to our rules.
Whatever those are who gavethem the power and the authority
to make these suggestions, whotold anyone in our society that
you get to tell other people howto be, other than, I suppose,
societal rules about killing andmurdering and Running red
lights?
Like why do you get to tellanyone at all how they get to be

(43:56):
, other than to say Be your bestself, be the most most
beautiful and all that.
In fact, I would.
I would challenge anyone whotold me that God didn't want us
to be the most beautifulVersions of ourselves, that we
didn't come down here to becomeand to be the most beautiful
expression of who we want to be.

(44:17):
Nope, I'm gonna make you in myimage, but don't be big.
I'm gonna make you my image,but don't be bright.
I'm gonna make you my image,but don't be colorful.
Did he say that to thebutterflies and the zebras and
everybody else?
And fucking it?
You know a nature?
No, be one color,monochromistic and be like that
all the time.
No, he didn't.
We aren't.

(44:37):
We shouldn't be.
Whether you believe in God ornot, this world is a colorful,
abundant world of diversity, andwhy can't humans be an
expression of that diversity?
Why can't we be that?
And that's what bullying is.
It's trying to take away yourdiversity and your authenticity.
It's trying to dumb you down.
It's trying to shut off yourlight and blow out your candle.

(44:59):
Well, I think we need, we need,we need people who are heroes
in that regard, that help holdour light up and protect our
light and Keep it protected fromthe storm, the storm that is,
the bullies of society in thisworld.
That would shut us down andshut our lights off and just be
like you can't be who you wantto be in this world.
Well, nobody gave you the right,so go away, you know just go go

(45:25):
away, go be wherever you wantto be and do whatever you want
to do, but don't take that rightfrom other people and don't
push it on other people.
I know they think that those ofus who are Leftist or whatever
you want to call it, those whowant to express ourselves, are
pushing our lives on you.
We're not asking you to change.
We're not asking you to doanything different.
Mm-hmm, you don't have toadjust.

(45:48):
We're sharing our experiencesyou don't have to adjust how you
live.
You don't have to adjust thetype of clothes you wear, what
you read, what you watch.
You don't have to anything.
In fact, you can.
You can actually change thechannel and do whatever you'd
like and not see those things ifyou want to.
But you can't shut us out.
You can't tell birds not to fly.
You can't tell butterflies notto be colorful.
You can't tell zebras to getrid of their stripes.
It doesn't work, it never willand it's not going to and we're

(46:12):
not going anywhere.
Colorful, beautiful, diversehumans is what we should embrace
.
And as bullies in school, oneof the first things they do is
teach us to hate ourselves.
They teach others to hate on us.
They encourage it.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Kids that gather around because they pick on all
the things that are wrong.
Oh well, they're perceived aswrong.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
They make that determination right right 67 to
68 percent of students if they,if they see bullying, don't say
anything.
That's the other problem.
This is what I would teach mykids.
One Embrace your authenticityand embrace your weirdness and
embrace whatever it is thatmakes you you and go find that
To.
If you see anybody doingdifferently, if you see anybody

(46:53):
Harming somebody else or takingaway their light, you defend
them.
And you either defend them bystepping up or you defend them
by speaking up.
So those are two things youstop up or you speak up.
One or the other right so IGuess that answers that question
, but that was a big.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
That was a big roundabout, kind of sorry
tangential journey there, butthat's okay.
So now that we circled backaround to the point, it is a
road I didn't say the lastquestion- Sorry.
Let's let's look at theopposite side of that scenario.

(47:38):
If you had children and youfound out one of your children
was a bully, how would youhandle that?

Speaker 1 (47:46):
That's hard, because part of me would be very.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Like how dare you?
You know, and I would it wouldbe very challenging not to shame
them into.
You know, how dare you behavethis way, whatever?
How?
I've never taught you to dothis.
Who do you think you are?
But I think something's goingon there.
I think most bullies are bullied.
I think most bullies are inpain, hurt people, hurt people.

(48:17):
It's the truth.
And most bullies are comingfrom a home space, an
Environment that is giving themcause to out lash or or or lash
out Sorry to lash out and andthat's coming from a pain that
they're carrying.
So something's wrong, mm-hmm, Imean something's harmed them

(48:38):
and they are lashing out atothers because they're hurting.
Now the rare incidents, Isuppose, is a child with
psychological and mentalchallenges, that that emotional
challenges they're in theirdevelopment.
I mean that needs to beaddressed and if you're paying
attention and you need to getsupport, obviously, like I was
saying, if I had that childpsychologist or friend or person

(49:00):
or whatever that I rely on,it's now time to have that
Meeting.
It's now time to set up thoseappointments.
It's now time to begin thatdialogue and allow them to speak
now, if that it most likely.
If your child, if you discoveryour child's a bully, they're
not talking to you, they're notcoming to you for help, but
they're not turning to you forsome sort of resource they're

(49:21):
lashing out because they can'tUse you.
They look, hear you, so they'regonna need to get you out of
there, you, so they're gonnaneed an alternative source to
talk to, and I think one of theother things that I would
probably Do for my kids is makesure they had a mentor In the
brothers and spig brothers andbig sisters club of America,

(49:42):
mm-hmm, something similar likethat, where they have someone
that's older, that's not aparent that they can turn to and
they can talk to in it in a waythat's different than me.
You know, our kids just shuttheir ears off when they get to
a certain age.
They just can't hear it comefrom you, and you and somebody

(50:02):
else could say the same exactthing you just said to your
child and all of a suddenthey're like oh, so it's a
little off.
Fifth, I don't know why younever said it that way.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Well, I totally did the other day and you've only
told you every day for the last10 years.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, you know, but that's in their development and
that's because they develop afilter against you and that's, I
really believe that's part ofour upbringing, it's part of our
hormonal and mental andemotional and psychological
development, that we have tostop listening to this and try
something new.
That's just part of what we doas humans, I think, is when we

(50:40):
grow and bless you if you're aparent who has a really positive
health relationship with yourchild, who doesn't reject you.
That's amazing.
I think that'd be pretty cool.
But I do think that's part ofdevelopment, I think making sure
or ensuring that not just thecircle of friends that they have
, but there's that other adultthat you know, that you trust,

(51:02):
that you know they can alwaystalk to and they have a
different relationship with thatperson than they do with you.
I think that would be crucialto ensuring that they have
another resource to talk to incase they get into one of these
scenarios where you can'tcommunicate with them.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
So your experience with bullying and you mentioned
it earlier today and I've hearda few stories included your
teachers as some of yourtormentors.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat and then, if you want to,
if not, or we can I do just makeme think about what happened.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
It just makes me angry.
It just makes me, it does make.
It still makes me angry todaywhen I look back and be really
sink into it.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
So what would you so let's skip that part and not get
into the anger If you couldspeak to those teachers today
that were bullies towards you,what would you say to them?

Speaker 1 (52:15):
It's tough, I think you know.
Are you aware or do you haveany idea the damage you did?
Hmm, Number one, number two andmaybe you, as an adult, thought
this was educational orconstructive or creative, or I

(52:41):
don't know how you painted thepicture for yourself or what
filters and perspectives you hadthat said, it was okay to put
me in a cardboard box at thefront of the class and let kids
write on it.
I don't know what told you.
It was okay to let kids makecutouts of my footprint and
write my names on it and thentape them to the floor of the
building from the front doorleading to my desk, because

(53:03):
Michael couldn't find his way tohis desk on time.
So let's help him pilotingeverybody, tape a footprint with
his name and write it on there.
Oh my God, I don't know whattold you, it was okay to when I
talk too much, put me under yourdesk and shove my sock in my
mouth and let the kids watchwhat I don't know.
I have no idea why you thoughtthis was okay.

(53:26):
I don't know where this idea ofbehavior as a teacher came from,
but I can tell you it's notteaching.
It certainly isn't teaching theright things.
It's teaching the other kids.
They can behave this way andhate on a child.
It's teaching the otherchildren that it's fine to
torture this kid.
It's okay to pick on him,because I have a proof and shown

(53:47):
you that he is not of value,that he is less than everybody
else, and you may pick on him.
So I don't know what I would sayto them, other than I'm so
angry at you for this and Ican't imagine who else you did
this to.
How many kids went through yourclass, year after year after

(54:10):
year, that you did this to.
I mean, I imagine today, well,they're probably dead, but I
managed and eventually they gotweeded out, because we don't
allow that in schools anymore.
The teachers get called out onthat stuff.
Kids won't put up with this,but we didn't have that power
and I don't know.
It just makes me angry thathumans would treat kids this way

(54:35):
and use their classroom as apublic forum for emotional and
psychological fucking torture.
It just don't understand, yeahit's horrible, it's horrific,
it's so disturbing.
That's why it makes me angry,because I don't have any place
to put that, I don't know whatto do with it, and I know, and

(54:56):
I'm pretty sure at least I hopeI am that teachers don't do that
these days and kids have waymore power than they used to,
way more power than we ever had,to speak up and say something,
and yet they treat each otherlike crap and let there's
bullies and stuff in school,like, even though they have the
authority and the power to dostuff, and teachers no longer
have the authority to punishwhich I think, by the way, was

(55:19):
probably pretty good to a degree.
They no longer have theauthority to do that, to control
kids the way that they used to.
You know, and I feel likethat's also a bit of a
disservice.
I think consequences andpunishment are two different
things.

(55:40):
I think, we need to be taughtconsequences and there need to
be consequences for our actions,but we also need to be taught
that there's an equitable way ofwhat that looks like.
And it's really unfortunatebecause the environment, that a
school, where we exist insidethat world right, where things
are equitable, it doesn't exist.

(56:02):
It didn't even exist in thereal world.
But we're supposed to try tomake it exist for kids when
they're growing up.
We're supposed to try to createan environment that is both
safe and equitable, that theycan have a safe environment
where they can not just learnabout life and learn the lessons
, and learn school and educationand things like that, but also
have a way to develop as a humanin any equitable environment,

(56:25):
and I just don't think that thatexists either.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Well, no, we don't have one in our society, and
especially not in Americanculture, and that's a whole
different conversation forentirely different episodes, so
we won't go any further on thatone.
So how can our schools andteachers do better in the fight?

(56:53):
Open forums against bullying?

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Open forums, open forums, open forums, open forums
there has to be.
You have to shine light.
Shame and this kind of behaviorcannot exist when light is
shined on it, when love andforgiveness and open talking and
communicated forum is provided.
We had school assembliesregularly but that was to

(57:20):
announce stuff to us.
That wasn't to help us dialogueabout our feelings, that wasn't
to help us talk about what goeson.
I mean, I would imagine a placewhere kids are encouraged to
join and participate in anongoing forum of communication
to learn how to communicate notonly the feelings you're having

(57:45):
but to share them in front ofothers in a safe environment
that allows the expression ofour feelings in front of other
people.
And that's one thing.
We're never taught as kids,we're never allowed as kids in
schools.
I mean, maybe they are today, Idon't know.
I'm not there so I don't have ateacher and somebody in the
current program or format thatcan share that with me.
But I can tell you right nowthey're not consistent and

(58:08):
they're not across the board.
They're not in every school,they're not in every school
system.
They may be occasional at someschools and some forums and some
classrooms with some teachers,but they're certainly on a
consistent platform where weencourage kids to learn how to
discuss and have an opendialogue and an open forum about
their experiences with oneanother, not just with adults,

(58:29):
with each other.
The playground is not a formatand a platform for this.
The playground isn't.
That's not that space.
And if we're going to teachkids on how to express
themselves accordingly,appropriately, and we're going
to teach them how to share theirworld and their space with one
another without harmingthemselves or harming other

(58:51):
people as a result because weall get angry, we all get upset,
we might harm other people todo something in a lash out, and
that's just normal, but doing itin a cloistered and closed off
environment, creating shame ordarkness around it, hiding it
from others and not discussingit, that isn't productive at all
for anybody ever.

(59:11):
So yeah, I would tell schoolsyou need to create a system
where we begin to teach kids ata very young age how to have an
open dialogue and an open forumin front of other people about
your experience and yourthoughts and your feelings.
One, with expressing themappropriately and accordingly,
without attacking and harmingand saying other bad things.

(59:31):
And two, receiving informationand understanding what that
person is going through withoutshaming them or bullying them or
punishing them.
There's a power dynamic wedevelop as kids.
That is part of our humandevelopment and you will either
learn to develop that powerdynamic and use it to either
take it out on other people oryou will use it to empower

(59:53):
yourself.
And there's a shift that goes onhere right, and that practice
of establishing my space in thisworld is what each child has to
do, and if they're taught thatexpressing themselves and having
an opinion and being who theyare is bad, they will shut
themselves down and lash outBecause there's no place for

(01:00:17):
that energy to go, there's noplace for that expression to go.
So they either will harmthemselves or harm somebody they
know, or they will lash out onother people.
There is no healthy outcome withthat kind of behavior and I
hope that schools are doingbetter and I hope that parents
and teachers are trying to finda way.
But I listen to the news and Ihear the things that are going
on on our school systems and thefrustration that parents have
and the frustrations thatteachers are going through, and

(01:00:41):
there doesn't seem to be anyspace available for this and I
think that's very, very sad.
I think it's very sad because Ithink we're going to end up
with generations of kids thatare harshly broken, moving
through the world, taking onresponsibilities and jobs
through that lens and to methat's not reaching for the top

(01:01:06):
of the tree.
That's low hanging fruit andit's usually rotten.
There's a reason why they callit low hanging fruit, because
it's usually not good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Right, do you have a message for your bullies?
Is there anything you'd like tosay to them?

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
It's okay.
You don't have to tell otherpeople to feel good and I'm
sorry that you were hurt.
I'm sorry that something wasdone to you.
In fact, it's been done, I'msure, to all of us.
If you could only know.
You know everybody gets hurt atsome point, but there's better

(01:01:52):
ways to express ourselves thantaking it out on another human
being and I would like for youto know you can be loved and you
can be appreciated differently,and it's okay if others don't
understand you.
But please don't bully, pleasedon't harm other people.

(01:02:14):
If you need a place and a wayto express yourself, think hard
and long before you do it at theend of a fist, before you do it
at the end of a caustic commentor cyber bullying on your
phones.
There's a better world outthere for all of us if we all

(01:02:35):
learn to respect and value otherhuman beings and their
experiences.
Whether we like theirexperiences or not, whether we
judge their experiences or not,whether we understand their
experiences or not.
It is not for us to judge, itis not for us to decide, it is
not for us to punish and harm.
It is for us to learn andaccept and embrace their

(01:03:00):
differences and their uniqueness, especially if we want them to
embrace ours.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
You know, I don't know if that's helpful Very well
said Is there anything elsethat you want to share with us
today?
Is there any specific onemessage or anything that you

(01:03:27):
want people to take from yourstory other than don't bully?
Yes, I guess, which is prettyclear at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
That's what I've done with the, with the Fearless
Road.
I think, in a sort ofroundabout way, I've created my
own platform in space wherethose of us who've experienced
trial and tribulation, who'veexperienced tragedy and
difficulties and challenges,have grown up and become
individuals in a world where wehave to build our own lives and

(01:03:57):
our own businesses using theseskill sets and, as a result, we
end up somewhere down that pathand down that road when the
challenges that we face are nowpart of this tool set and skill
set that we had to develop inorder to face the world we live
in.
And this is a community wherewe get to express that.

(01:04:20):
This is a community where weget to share that.
This is a community where thosetools and those skills that
we've used to deal with fear, todeal with our challenges, with
our own personal field Because,by the way, you might have
bullied me and you might havebeen mean to me when I was a kid
, but it's nothing compared tothe shit I did to myself.

(01:04:40):
As a result, I became my ownworst enemy, I became my own
bully, I became my own torturerbecause I didn't learn to love
myself, and I didn't learn tolove myself because of how I was
treated Because I was told Iwasn't valuable.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
No, you believed your bullies.
Yes, eventually, and you boughtin.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Even though I fought it as a kid, even though I tried
to fight it.
I will tell you that sunk inthose words and that were
repeated, and that behavior thatwas repeated and all of that
eventually became a brokenrecord in my head that I began
to believe, I began to act onright and now I built a life and

(01:05:22):
a career using that set ofskills.
It has served a lot of people.
It has come to in use in anumber of ways and perhaps today
the best of all of those is theFearless Road, where I get to
reach out to other people whoare also using those skillsets
on their Fearless Road, try todevelop a life and a business

(01:05:42):
and a cause and a message basedon a set of filters and tools
and skillsets that perhaps onlytaught us to reach for the low
hanging fruit.
And what you and I are trying todo is reach for the top of the
tree, and we're constantlytrying to reach for that top of
the tree and I'm here for you,I'm here for that, I'm here to

(01:06:05):
celebrate that and to rewardthat, and if you need that kind
of encouragement, if you needthat kind of platform, if you
need that kind of dialoguethat's what I'm here for is to
help us look beyond the lowhanging fruit and see that the
top of the tree is just thebeginning of what our potential,
because we're beautiful humanswho could do amazing things, and

(01:06:29):
we should be told that andtaught that and experienced that
as often as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
So I love that and that's that.
I guess, I think that's it.
Thank you so much for being soopen and vulnerable.
As you know, it's the theme ofthe podcast.

(01:06:58):
However, it's different for youto do it more than the guests.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
It is different.
And I do get on my soapboxeswith my guests.
I'm sure I get, I like to talkand I get down these candles and
stuff, but it's I don't thinkI've looked at it holistically
from a standpoint of like mylife got here because of all of
that.
You know, it's been pieces forme and I think, looking at it

(01:07:25):
from a distance and saying, wow,there's been all of this
building and all of theseincidences and everything and
they have shaped you and youcan't deny that that impact is
real and it's there.
But how can you begin to use itto give back?
How can I begin?
How can I begin to use it togive back?
How can I begin to use it tomake an impact of the world that

(01:07:46):
is meaningful?
And I feel like this is thespace for me to try to do that.
And it has to start with me IfI'm going to ask other people to
share.
Giving a little bit of myselfeach time and allowing the
creation of that safe space andthat opportunity to express
yourself and to dive deeper intothose things.

(01:08:07):
That I'm not feeling is rude.
That's how we become fearless.
We fear less of life, we fearless of risk, we fear less of
opportunity, we fear less ofourselves.
When we're ready to jump outthere and reach for the stars
and reach for the bigger fruitat the top of the tree, when we
want to build something, when wewant to do, be or have
something other than what we areright now, to be greater and to

(01:08:31):
be the greatest expression ofthe greatest diversion of
ourselves that we possibly canbe, then we have to begin to
have dialogues and to open upspaces where that's possible.
And then we got to ask whatdoes it look like?
What does that look like Havinga world and a space where you
can be the best version and thegreatest version of you?
And I think I challenge a lotof people out there to come with

(01:08:57):
me to try.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
So thank you, Well, let's walk the fearless road
then.
Shall we.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
We shall, I'll pack a bag.
We already are.
Thanks everybody I reallyappreciate you all for being
here and listening and lendingyour beautiful, wonderful ears
for another dialogue here on theFearless Road podcast.
And then I'd like my sister,fedra Joanyaki, for being my
host today.
You will begin to see more ofher on the show as she has
opportunities to join me in thedialogue and conversations and

(01:09:28):
do some of her own hosting,hopefully here in the future on
the program.
So if you want to know more,you want to do more, you want to
be more, please reach out to usat thefearlessroadcom or on any
of our social media channels.
On what do we have?
Instagram, linkedin andFacebook.
You can find us there.
Yeah, okay, so you know themessage.

(01:09:49):
Excellent, everybody be good toeach other.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
And stay fearless, my friends, Okay much love.
Have a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Bye Little.