06. Hike the Mountain: How Jay Thompson's Transformative Journey Fosters Personal and Professional Growth

Episode Transcript
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Michael Devous (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of the
Fearless Road podcast.
I'm your host, Michael DeVue,and this week we are in studio
with the amazing Jay Thompson ofhikethemountainorg.
Now, normally I come to youfrom a nature walk or something
like that, but this week we'vehad some weather issues, so here
I am in studio doing this introthis week Jay Thompson,
hikethemountainorg.

(00:21):
This is a very interestingorganization.
Jay is an incredible leader,mentor and coach who specializes
in curating a very how do wesay it?
Like a menu of a specific hikefor you, like a literal hike.
He takes his teams your team,your organizations team, your

(00:45):
leadership team, your cultureteam, your HR team.
He takes them on a hike butbefore doing so, curates a very
specific agenda for the hike sothat each plateau, each step
along that way you're thinkingabout one of the strategies that
you want to make change in yourorganization, leadership
strategies, cultural shifts andmindset.

(01:07):
Talking about ways to createenvironments that are both safe
and vulnerable for youremployees, encouraging safe
spaces, brainstorming,whiteboarding you name it.
Like this hike can be verytailored to your specific needs
and that's what Jake specializesin, but it's also out in nature
.
You're also team building.
You're also gaining somepositive feedback and touching

(01:29):
the earth, you know which isimportant and valuable.
Jay reflects on his ownpersonal journey learning to
pivot after a baseball, having asetback in college where the
world sort of sets him on adifferent path.
He reflects on the importanceof mentors, on diverse passions
and focusing on the end goalthat can inspire comfortability

(01:50):
with change.
Jay and I discuss the power ofpersonal responsibility in
creating a workplace environmentthat your employees want to be
in, how to let go of certainhabits so that you can focus on
what you're best at, and how tonotice when it's time to make
that change in your organization.
So listen for an enlighteningconversation with Jay from hike

(02:14):
the mountain and maybe you'lldiscover a few ways that you can
embrace change in yourworkplace as a leader as well.
And if you're interested ingetting ahold of Jay, don't
forget it's Jay at hike themountainorg.
And thank you for listening tothe Fearless Road.
Remember, stay fearless.

(02:41):
Oh, ladies and gentlemen,welcome to the Fearless Road
podcast.
I am Michael DeVue, your host.
We are here in studio today andI'm very excited to have Jay
Thompson from hike themountainorg, a gentleman that I
met recently through the speakerlab, which has actually been a
bevy of incredible talent andpeople and resources For me.

(03:01):
I'm very blessed to have this,but his story and his passion
and his message really resonatedwith me and I figured it would
also resonate with our audienceand our listeners.
Jay was a former teenentrepreneur with the landscape
business.
A very ambitious young manturned a full time coach and
motivational speaker.

(03:22):
Now, whether that's hiking thepeaks of company culture or
personal development, finding ahiking partner on your journey
to success can make all of thedifference, and what Jay brings
to this particular trail, thisparticular path both the
Fearless Road and our hikingtogether, which I think is
pretty cool is going to beamazing and helpful for

(03:45):
everybody out there today.
I think we're going to get somereally cool tips and tricks and
into some fear while we hike.
I mean, what better place todiscover some of the things and
phobias and fears that we havethan on a path?
I mean the heights you know.
So let's begin, let's hit thetrail and let's let the journey
begin with Jay Thompson fromhike the mountainorg Awesome.

Jat Thompson (04:07):
Thanks, michael, I so appreciate the opportunity
to be be with you today.
I, like you, have met someincredible people through the
speaker lab, you being one ofthose top people as well, and
very seldom in life does it seemlike you can find a place with

(04:27):
a lot of like minded people thatcan encourage and challenge and
spur one another on in a waythat I found at the speaker lab,
and I think it's because of thepassion of people who have a
message to share.
There's something powerful aboutthat, and regardless of what
that message is I mean, as youwell know, we've met people

(04:49):
within that group that havemessages for businesses, for
people, for families, for peoplein crisis, for people who
experience success andeverything in between, and so
it's been been quite a journeyover the past couple of years as
I've been been with that group,and so I'm excited about that
and just looking forward totoday sharing a few things and

(05:11):
hearing always enjoy ourconversations together.
I always have my little notepadhere and I write down things,
my little Michaelisms that I getfrom these things, so like a
little nugget, little nuggetswe're gonna get it.

We're gonna find some nuggets today.
That's.
That's this journey of hikingour own particular mountain, our
own fearless road and, ofcourse, digging and mining for
gold, which is what all theseepisodes are about.
You know, we're mining for areally great nuggets of truth
and honesty and authenticity,things we can put into practice
in our lives.
I think you're right.
It's hadn't even occurred to methat you know our group at the

(05:46):
speaker lab and we'll just givea shout out to them right now,
which is the speaker labcom, ifyou are familiar with them
helping people build and createtheir journey with motivational
speaking and turn into aspeaking business, a
professional, profiting,profitable speaking business.
But what's really amazing aboutthat are the people 100%.

(06:06):
There's so many incrediblepeople with so many incredible
messages and experiences, like,like you said, in one location
right, that we just have accessto that.
Didn't even occur to me thatyou know it's our own, like
little therapy group.

That's a good description of it.

Yeah, like we're .
You know we're trying to getour messages out there, but
we're also there to listen toeach other right and and hear
these journeys.
And so many people have so manyincredible journeys that I
think you know we are not alone.
I think if you do feel like youare, feel like it's difficult
on this path as an entrepreneur,building your own dream,

(06:45):
building your own business, itcan feel slightly isolating and
an island unto yourself.
But I am here to tell you thatthere are a ton of people out
there on this journey sharingtheir successes, sharing their
stories, sharing their failures,sharing their dreams, and this
is one of those places you knowthere's most places where we're
going to share that stuff andthat experience with our

(07:07):
audience and our listeners,hopefully getting some feedback
both from you as well as otherexperienced professionals out
there who are on this journey.
And Jay, so hiking the mountain,which is a great metaphor for a
lot of things in life.
Wow, I mean congratulations ongetting thatorg and thatcom

(07:27):
domain.
Yeah, I thought the FearlessRoad was pretty cool.
I was super lucky to land onthe name and not have anybody
already taken, so I was veryhappy about that.
Now I have to live up to it.
I have to like make sure I'mnot sucking at my job, but as we

(07:48):
hike the mountain and our ownlives right towards our own
successes and towards our ownmountain tops and peaks, talk to
me a little bit about whathikedmountainorg specifically,
what that does, what you dothere and how that helps
companies and corporations andcompany culture today.
But also, how does the metaphor?
How have you seen this metaphorshape itself?

(08:10):
Like I'm assuming it was oneidea that you had, but then it's
grown into its own thing overtime.

Yeah, oh, that's a great question.
So let me let me kind of stepback and go for me this whole
process of getting to with withhike the mountain At its core.
What we do is we help bridgethe gap between belief and
behavior within a company'sculture.
As you well know, every company, every person, has their own

(08:42):
culture.
I would say that is a set ofvalues, really, that kind of
drive them, their own integrity,and so every company has a
culture.
Oftentimes the poster of thatculture that is posted on the
wall is not matched by howpeople actually behave in the
company that they work.
And so that's what I do I helpdefine ways to bridge the gap

(09:06):
between what a company andindividuals say they believe and
, ultimately, how they behave.
And so I do that in a coupledifferent ways.
I do that through somethingcalled a trail guide and a walk
and talk video, which is aweekly little one sheet PDF that
I produce for organizationsaround their values and living
those out.

(09:26):
And then I make a short littlevideo that takes maybe one of
the points that I've writtenabout in that, in that one pager
, and I talk about that a littlebit, and what I do is I have
found.
Michael, you know this, peoplelearn in a lot of different ways
.
Some people are very visual,some people like to read, some
people like to have to write itdown.
I'm kind of a mix of that.
If I'm listening to somethingand something hits me, I've got

(09:48):
to write it down and I probablyeven going to draw some kind of
a little picture that goes alongwith it.
But if I can watch or listen toa video, it's even more
powerful, so that that trailguide that I produce in the walk
and talk video.
I have companies that I do thatfor every week.
One, one bank.
I've been doing that.
I'm actually this morning itwent out as for 474 weeks in a

(10:10):
row.
I've done that for one, justone bank, and I've done it for
multiple others as well.
But so I do that.
I also help to do some personalcoaching with with teams and or
individuals around.
I call them the six switchbacksof personal development and
kind of take them on thatjourney.
As you know, a switchback isyou can go up a mountain a

(10:34):
couple of ways.
One probably easiest is hop inthe helicopter, fly the top, get
out, enjoy the view and thenfly back down.
But that's not really hiking.
That's called helicopter and Iguess.
But so it's a it's.
You know it's a.
It's quite a thing there whenit, when it comes to what we're
going, to, what we're going tobe able to do.
But how you going to hike thatmountain.

(10:55):
You can either go straight upright and you can head straight
up hardest way possible or youcan take to switchbacks was go
back and forth up and down themountain, up and around the
mountain to ultimately get youthere.
I do some coaching around that,about that personal development
, around those switchbacks aswell.
I also do some keynote speaking.
I actually even take groups outon a hike and just call it take

(11:18):
a hike and we'll go out forhalf day or for a full day and
we'll go and do a hike and I'llshare some different things I've
learned on the trail when I'mout with them that way.
So there's a lot of differentways in which to help to
reinforce that culture when itcomes to working with the
organization.
So that's kind of what I do.

(11:39):
When it comes to businessdevelopment or personal
development, businessdevelopment and helping to
impact the culture of companiesthat's kind of the role that I
play.
The birth of hike the mountain,where that hold, this whole
thing came from, was back when Iwas 40 years old.

(12:00):
Long ago, 15 years ago now, Iset a goal to hike the entire
appellation trail before Iturned 50.
I've hiked a little over 1700miles so far on the appellation
trail and have it quite finishedyet before I was 50.
But I've done 1700 miles andI've learned a lot of things
along the trail and so that'ssomething that that's kind of

(12:23):
where my passion and stuff forhiking has come.
I go for at least two weeks,sometimes three weeks out of the
year.
Me and one of my buddies willgo and we'll hit the trail.
We actually leave November thefourth will be going from the
fourth through the 18th ofNovember this year will be in
Vermont and keep head north onthe appellation trail.
So that's that's where mypassion and my love and my I

(12:46):
would go and addiction forhiking comes from.
Michael, for some reason I'mnot hearing you right now.

(13:11):
I hate to get a pause on that,sorry.
How's that better?
There we go.

There you go, folks, you know what when you
mute yourself?
Uh, there's a lesson in there,right?

Yes, we need to learn to mute ourselves
sometimes, but then sometimeswhen we get something we're
saying, we need to remember.

Oh, if my mother were alive, the things she
would say right now.
She could mute me to save herlife.
In fact, you know, I think mymom used to suffer from
pharyngeitis Pharyngeitis I hadlaryngeitis every now and then,
losing her voice and stuff.
I mean, I think I can honestlysay that I have lived my entire
life and never lost my voice,much to this chagrin, I'm sure,

(13:56):
of my parents and other people.
Uh, where was I?
Okay?
So we were talking about thetrail.
We're talking about like the1700 miles of inspirational
trail that you've been on for along time.
What I was asking for wasactually commenting about how
late in the season it was tostart hiking in November, which
I thought would be cold or youwould have run into weather
issues.

(14:16):
Um, that was sort of like ananecdotal comment that I was
making.
But then, on top of this, likewhen along your journey of
hiking, did you begin to developthe idea that you could apply
physical steps of hiking amountain to cultural shifts and
change in the mindset, in thework, in the workplace?

Uh.
So I think for me that probablycomes back down to two things
in my, in my background and myexperience.
So back when I have I've hadthree big passions of what I
want to do in life, I guessthrough the years.
One was I wanted to be aprofessional baseball player.
So I played baseball since Iwas five years old, played all

(14:57):
through a little league highschool uh got the pitching
scholarship uh to Georgia State.
As a pitcher I was top 10 in inin my region and Georgia of in
pitching and hitting and all ofthat signed my scholarship to
pitch at Georgia StateUniversity.
Two weeks after I signed theydropped the baseball program
there.
I was devastated Uh.

(15:19):
What I learned through baseballis, especially through pitching,
is that, um, I can have all theability in the world but if I'm
not a student of the gang andno matter how hard I throw, the
batter has a baton can alwaysget a hit.
But if I will study the batter,I can.

(15:42):
I can pitch to their weak spotsand my strengths and I can
accomplish something.
So that's something I learnedfrom baseball that I that has
translated to understanding froma from a culture standpoint for
companies, is that everycountry company has a weak spot
and if we can identify areasthat they are strong in, then

(16:02):
maybe they are able to then liftup those areas of weakness and
they can see success byleveraging their strengths to
overcome their weaknesses.
So that's one of the one of thethings.
Second to that is landscaping.
Um, you'd mentioned that aboutme being an entrepreneur early.
I mean, I have mode.
I have mode, my fair share ofyards.
I have pushed a lot more aroundthe neighborhood.

(16:22):
Um, I, I, I learned to do allof that stuff, uh, when my pitch
and scholarship went away, Iended up going to Auburn
University and landscapearchitecture got my degree in
landscape architecture and whatI learned through that was, um,
I learned a design process.

(16:42):
I learned to see an end productbefore it ever existed and then
discovered the, the, the methodto come up with all the steps
necessary to create that in, inproduct, that thing that I saw,
that in design.
And so for me, how that hastranslated is uh, from a, from a

(17:03):
company culture standpoint.
It has helped me to help peopleand organizations see who they
can be and then design a processand plan to take the necessary
steps to get there.
So that's baseball.
That's uh landscape.
And then the third for me wasministry.
I've been in ministry for 35plus years.

(17:24):
You and I've talked about thatbefore, um, and that's a big
part of my life.
Faith is a big part of my life,and one of the things I learned
about faith was I have to be insomeone's life before I can
ever speak into someone's life.
Right, is that in?
Or if I can have the mostincredible truth in the world,

(17:45):
but if I've not earned the rightto be heard by somebody, it's
just going to be Charlie Brownteacher to them, right?
You know why, why, why?
that's what it's like, and uh,and so, from that, how does
ministry it's taught me from aculture standpoint with with,
with organizations, is that,instead of me coming in being
mixed or Mr Fix it, if I build arelationship with them, they

(18:07):
get to know me, I get to knowthem.
Then we can help to identifythose steps and I have the I've
earned the credibility to beable to speak into the direction
for the organization when itcomes to culture.
So all of that to say along theway of hiking hiking for me,
what I learned was the only wayto get to the top of the

(18:28):
mountain is one step at a time.
And so put all of that together.
Right, Baseball, understand,strengthen weaknesses, landscape
, see a design, and then thesteps to get there Ministry
connect first, instruct second,and then, with hiking, is that
it is a consistent.
Consistent process over timewill lead you to the greatest

(18:52):
heights you'll ever see.
But the only way you do that isone step at a time.
So put all of that together.
That's where the mountain wasbirthed, and I'm so glad we're
recording this because I don'tknow that I have formally ever
said it exactly that way.
It's an aha moment, it's agreat stop on the fearless road
here for me and I kind of gothrough this.

(19:14):
So, and I guess the takeawayfrom that is just don't discount
the moment you're in, becauseyou don't know what the moment
you're in is going to teach youabout the moment you're going to
experience in the future.
So that's just a good thingthat you let me just kind of
babble on here a little bit andkind of understand my journey.

Well, there's a lot to absorb here.
I don't know if audiences aregoing to be doing this while I'm
doing this because I'm such avisual person.
I love the idea of putting intophysical steps, you know,
literally, with your team, yourteammates, your corporate
culture, your company, anyactionable physical steps that

(19:54):
we take on this journey togetheras a group, while applying and
looking at ministry and ministry.
You know not to turn anybodyoff, you know, from the God
complex of it all and theChristianity complex of it all.
But I think we're all hereministering to our message and
to our audience in our baseabout ways to A improve their

(20:16):
lives, B hopefully improve theirbusinesses and C improve their
relationships and therelationships you talked about.
It's very important, I think, ina company culture today to
realize that you are in arelationship with a number of
things.
One you're in a relationshipwith your client, your customer,

(20:37):
your product line, that wholejourney.
You're in a relationship withyour employees, and a lot of
companies never really botheredto look at strategy from an
internal standpoint right.
We were never encouraged to dothat.
Businesses and companies werenever really encouraged to look
at an internal strategy andcorporate culture as a

(20:58):
meaningful practice ofdeveloping not just a positive
environment where good productis made and good services are
made and good services are done,but building a strong
foundation for a longer term,longer impact in the world.
Right, I think when we thinkabout building a business, I
mean you and I have to do this.

(21:19):
When we were talking about, andSpeaker Lab talks about, what
is your why?
What is your purpose?
What's your positioning?
Expert positioning statementJust taking the time to develop
these vision mapping strategies,which is what you were
discussing earlier, which is howto reverse engineer a vision
mapping strategy for getting youwhere you want to go, right,
Whether that's the landscapeidea of the final product, the

(21:39):
beautiful garden and the bermsand the flowers, where they're
going to go, how we're going toplant them, how often are we
going to water them, whatwatering systems are we going to
need in place, Like all ofthose different things are the
same as looking at a finalversion and vision of what you
want to be, what your companywants to be, and then reverse
engineering that map and thesteps it takes to get there, and
I think anybody that isn'tlooking at a cultural strategy

(22:02):
from an internal standpoint isgoing to miss the boat.
You cannot be running asuccessful company these days
without considering what, whenyou define success, how does
that correlate to your internalcompany culture?
How does that correlate to theservices that you provide, both

(22:24):
as a company, to your employees,but services that you provide
outside of that to the public?
And finally, what are you goingto do?
How do you define successwithin that right?
So it's not just the profitsthat are coming in, it's not
just the amount of items andwidgets that are being sold.
It's a larger idea aboutsuccess and value.

(22:46):
I was talking to another personearlier, actually from someone
from this big lab who I think isgoing to be on the show, which
I'm very excited about, talkingabout gratitude.
That's, his specific topic isabout giving back and charitable
behavior, practices and thingslike that as a company culture,
and what does it mean to addthat to your strategic vision?

(23:11):
Mapping right, and I wastalking to him about?
Well, I think part of thereason why this is important and
crucial is it's how we definesuccess.
I think you and I grew up withthe idea that entrepreneurs and
businesses define success from abottom dollar concept, from a
shareholder mentality, and notfrom a corporate culture

(23:32):
standpoint, and one of thethings that I was looking at
recently about value, likeself-worth and value.
How do we begin to define whatthat looks like?
Am I living by somebody else'sidea of what value and integrity
is and success means to them,or am I living it by my own
standards and I can't be thebest that I can be and give the

(23:54):
best that I can give to thecompany, the organization or the
people or community if I'm notliving in my authentic integrity
right and when you're comingfrom that place, when you've
established that part ofyourself, what you end up
providing and giving, not onlyto the organization you work
with but all the people, isultimately some of the best

(24:15):
stuff out there, some of thebest you can possibly give.
I think right now we're in aspace where redefining what that
looks like is happening in anumber of ways, including hike
the mountain, which I think asksthe question if you're going to
build a set of steps to get youto a particular goal.
Have you begun to look at whatthe value systems are?

(24:36):
Have you begun to look at yourintegrity?
Have you begun to look at yourimpact and your cultural impact,
both internally and externally,and how do you want to get
there?
Why do you want to get there,Like what's the purpose, if you
haven't defined it yet right?
Why do you want to have theimpact you claim that you want
to have with your product, withyour services, with your company

(24:57):
culture?
And I don't know that?
A lot of places are asking thatquestion.
Do you find yourself in aunique position to help them
find their way?

Yeah, I think it was.
John Maxwell said if you findyour why, you find your way.
Simon Sinek said you have tostart with why, his whole
concept of that book, and youknow, as he talks about, that
your why determines your whatyou do, and your what ultimately
determines how you do it.

(25:30):
Right, we started.
Most of the time, everybodytypically starts on how they're
going to do something and thenwhat that is, and then you know,
or it's the why, the how, thewhat, right, this is what we're
going to make.
We're going to make thesewidgets.
How are we going to do it?
We're going to do it throughthese processes.
And why are we doing it?
Because we want to make a tonof money.
Well, at the end of the day thatI don't know that.

(25:52):
That continues to get you upevery Monday to keep getting
after what you need to get after.
Right, it is the, a bigger why,a bigger purpose, a bigger
accomplishment.
That way and I think that issomething that falls on the
leadership of every organizationis two things One is to remind

(26:19):
everybody in the organizationthat what they are doing is
valuable and why it's that,communicating that message, and
secondly, I think one of thesecond, if there's a one in a
one, a one a for leadership is,this is not only to remind
people that what they're doingis valuable, but to help the

(26:39):
people see that they arevaluable as well.
And I think that's thedisconnect a lot of times is,
one, they don't see how they fitand two, they're not perceived
or recognized as being valuableto the organization.
And I think that is one of thethings from a culture standpoint

(27:00):
, how the greatest investmentany company is going to make is
not in a better process, not,ultimately, even in a better
product.
It's in.
It's in helping to make sureyou have better people, making
the people that are there better.

(27:20):
Yes if people always say thisway you have to be something
before you can do somethingright, and I think that is from
a leadership standpoint in anorganization.
You've got to help peopleunderstand their be before you
harple them on what they do, andif you reinforce who they are.

(27:43):
It'll it'll impact what they do.

Well, and this comes back to the real basic, we
are human beings, not humandoings.
Right, you know, if?
And I think the second part ofthis that struck me was, we're
asking our leaders, our companyleaders, corporate leaders,
executive leaders, and, by theway, y'all have a big task, big
task in front of you,40-some-odd years and I'm going

(28:08):
to speak about my particularhistory, which is 53 years on
this planet and the majority ofthat was during a time when
leadership did not ever includeembracing, building up and
supporting your employees.
It wasn't about us, it wasabout your product or about your
service, and it had nothing todo with the staff or the

(28:29):
employees.
And I think the reason why weare where we are now is we can't
sustain it.
In fact, the entire resignationgeneration, which I think yes,
I would probably say Gen Z's,but Gen X's are the ones who put
up with this stuff for so manyyears where we thought making

(28:51):
money was where it mattered.
And now we're so dissatisfiedwith that thinking and that
process, with that that, thatwe're asking for more.
We're asking for a differenttype of world, and I think the
younger culture that's coming upunderneath us is recognizing it
so quickly that they're nowdemanding it and we're putting
in our leaders in a positionwhere it's tough to be a leader.

(29:18):
And with this type of ministry,this type of messaging, this
type of culture, company culture, change in mindset shifting,
when we are individualsourselves who don't know how to
define our own self-worth andvalue outside of the
deliverables that we provide fora company, right, if we're

(29:39):
always meeting the bottom lineand company quarterly reports
and things like that, and that'swhere we found our value.
Now we're shifting the entiremindset to the value is inherent
in the individuals that webuild up and support and build
integrity and self-worth in ourcompany.
That then, therefore, as aresult of their satisfaction
going up, their happiness goingup, their gratitude going up,

(30:02):
deliver a better set of productsand services for us on our
behalf.
Right, no one's ever looked atit that way.
You know, tending to the rootsof a system, not just the
branches and the fruit that comeoff of it.
Right, we haven't looked at itthat way and we're asking a lot
from our leaders.
Wouldn't you work with them atHike the Mountain?

(30:22):
What are some of the biggestchallenges you find right now,
with leaders who have to take onthis role themselves if they're
not in a position ofunderstanding their own
self-worth and value.

I think it comes back to this whole thing that
you talk about so often is thefear, and I think one of the
number one greatest fears formost leader I'm gonna say sea
level folks, that kind of stuff,people that I've connected with
and work with is the fear ofvulnerability.

(30:55):
They don't want people to beable to see behind the curtain.
They don't want there's thefear of what happens if
everybody realizes I don't haveit all together or I don't have
all the answers, or I don't youknow, and so that fear of
vulnerability, I think is one ofthe biggest obstacles.

(31:17):
Let me keep it in my genre ofhike in the mountain Yep, that's
one of the biggest obstaclesgetting to the place that they
want to be.
And I think, to go back to that, you're talking about my
generation, your generation.
We grew up loving the cliches.
You know saying this, we couldmake a living off of cliches If

(31:41):
we had a dime, yeah, Right.
The challenge and I think whatit is going on right now is this
is I think people today arelike I want the reality of what
I want the truth of what thecliche is.
Don't, don't feed me the linewithout giving me the truth.
And so to say you know I?

(32:01):
There's no I in team.
That's easy to say, but that'snot how we live.
Yeah.
You know that.
You know that we recognize youreffort but we reward their
results.
That's what we do and that'sthe disconnect.
Is that if?
Because, again, that the wholetruth of um, for people, what,

(32:25):
what you reward, is what'srepeated.
So we, we've rewarded probablythe wrong things, and a lot of
times and I'm not going to saywe, I have rewarded the wrong
things in my own life that havebeen repeated.
And I'm repeating things in mylife and I'm like, why do I do
that?
It's because I reward myselfwith that and I need to change
that.
And so, before I'm going topoint fingers there, I think and

(32:47):
I have seen with people I'veworked with, but I see for
myself, is that fear ofvulnerability that for me to to
let them see the man workingbehind the curtain is not really
Oz, the great wizard of Oz,he's just a man pulling some
levers like everybody else.
Um, I think that's scary forfolks.

And I think we are talking about systemic
issues, um, that our systems,especially ones you and I grew
up with, had a reward based umsetup for rewarding, conformity,

(33:31):
rewarding you, just, you know,deliver these things.
Stay in this place, dress likethis, look like this.
You get this perfect house,that perfect wife, this car,
that job, that 401 K, and theidea was that, by conforming to
all these things, happinesswould be yours.
You know, this American dreamwhatever that's supposed to mean

(33:52):
these days, which is, you know,to me, and American dream is
what it should be called, notthe American dream, because
anyone can build their dream inAmerica and it could be
different every single time, andit should be.
It should be as colorful as theflag is, it should be as
beautiful as the rainbow, itshould be as creative as as as

(34:14):
we are as a nation, asindividuals, right and not just
conforming to one set mindset ofwhat success and value needs to
be.
Um, that vulnerability, thatfear.
You know, yeah, our leaders aregoing to need to step up and
they're going to need support.
They're going to need a set ofsystems and a set of shows and
podcasts and hiked mountains andwhatever out there in order to

(34:36):
help them become the people weare now asking them to be.
We are now demanding from ourexecutive leaders, our
leadership in companies andcorporate culture, to make these
changes.
And um, you know it's notwithout um.
It is our responsibility to ahold them accountable but B
provide them the support thatthey need.

(34:56):
We can't just be like you didit wrong and point the finger.
We have to be in that arenawith them, helping them figure
out how to climb that particularmountain, how to develop that
corporate strategy and thatmindset.
And if it is a challenge and ifit is difficult and you work in
a corporate company where thatculture is a mess and that
system isn't working and they'retrying to make change, be a

(35:19):
part of that change, not aridiculer, not a criticizer.
Nobody needs somebody sittingin the in the cheap seat
pointing fingers.
We have plenty of people whoaren't willing to get down into
the dirt and into the arena anddo the hard work, right, like
there's a lot of people whocould sit in on chair
quarterback all day long.
But when we are talking aboutreal change, meaningful,

(35:40):
impactful corporate culturechange, it's everybody at the
table, all hands on deck.
Um, do you find that that'sthat that's a disconnect as well
, that that that the employeesare still waiting to be led like
sheep out of a out of the dark,you know, by by some great
leader, as opposed to being theleader you want to see be the
change you want to make, kind ofa scenario.

I think there's a.
I think there's different camps, if you will, there, there are
those that are like um, I'm onlygoing to stay in my lane, this
is what I want to do.
This is what I get paid to do.
I'm only going to, I'm going tostay right here, that's what,
and I'm not.
I'm going to do what's expected, but not more.

Yes.

Um and and that's, and there there are people that
are that way.
Uh, I also think there arepeople that are, that are
willing to follow leadership, ifthey, but they're not right now
, because they either don'ttrust the leader, they don't
even know the leader.
There's a disconnect there.

Yes.

Um, I think that's a group and I also think there
there is a group as a smallgroup.
Last stat I saw was about uhsix.
You know, uh 30, 35% of peopleare quote unquote engaged in
their work.
Uh, the other 65% aredisengaged and of that, of that,
16% of those uh last stat Iread are actively disengaged.

(37:16):
That's mean they're doingthings.
There's a group of people outthere that are doing things to
take the company down and andmake that.
I mean it's so.
So again, I don't, I don't thinkthat's, I don't think that's
where we need to be at all.
Uh, uh, that that format.
Yeah, I think the challenge isthis you said a minute ago um,

(37:38):
if you only point out problems,you're going to frustrate
yourself and everybody else, butif you can recognize a problem,
own the part of it that that isyours and provide paths for
solutions for everybody involved, I think that is being real and
being authentic in thatsituation as a leader.

(37:59):
And I think one of the thingsthat that I have found is this
is when people have come up,when leaders have come up to
that sense of that vulnerabilityor that fear of vulnerability,
of being real and beingauthentic, sometimes in front of
everybody in the organization.
I, what I have done in in isI've been able to come along

(38:19):
beside them, listen to them andbe able to help them communicate
in a realistic way kind oftheir story.
Where they're at, um, there's a.
There's a great disconnectoftentimes, um, because, like
between a CEO or a COO andpeople on their team that work

(38:44):
on the team underneath them, ifyou will, there's a disconnect
because, um, they don't know howto, they don't know how to to
to take what's what's importantand speak that in a, in a, in a
language that the, the troopsunderstand, if you will, that
that are doing that, and that'sone of the things that that I

(39:07):
work with as I work with them toto go, let's, let's find common
language and let's help me.
I help them tell their story ofwhere they want to go and who
they are and that kind of stuffin a way that connects more with
with the average person on thein the organization, as opposed
to um doesn't sound like I do,that.

(39:29):
I'm just listening to myselftalk here, going like I'm not
even thinking.

I don't think I'm communicating this in a, in
a clear way, but I think youpointed yeah, I think you
pointed it out, you hit the nailon the head here which is
developing the language.
Um, we don't have that.
That language is not inherentin our current systems of
corporate culture, of company,organization or culture.
Uh, the language to use thatwe're talking about, which is

(39:56):
the language of vulnerability,the language of connecting, the
language of and this is what Iwas going to ask you a minute
ago Do you think it's importantand valuable for us as a company
, as a company and organization?
Is it important to admit themistakes of the past before
beginning to move forward?
Meaning, if we're going toestablish a new set of a new
paradigm, a shift in our, in ourthinking and a co-company
culture, and we want buy-in fromthe, the employees, we want

(40:18):
buy-in from everybody, right?
Is it important to start with afresh slate by saying, hey,
this is what we used to do, thisis how we used to be.
Um, you know, when I got cleanand sober, I had to admit my
wrongdoings to my family members, I had to make amends to them
in order to begin to make mysteps move forward, and then I

(40:40):
had to hold myself accountableand my own integrity by
continuing to make good andpositive steps.
Um, when you're a CEO, a COO, aCFO, and you speak on behalf of
a company, these issues, thesebehavior problems, these um
challenges may not be somethingyou developed, may not be
something that it's not you whodid it, but you now have to take

(41:03):
ownership of it and order inorder to make the change.
What does that look like?
When we're asking someone totake responsibility for a
company and its behaviors andits choices over the last
however many years it it we'retalking here and then to an act
and begin to ask for change,what language would you

(41:28):
recommend or do you offer these,these, these CFOs, the
executive leaders, to help themstart developing a way to
communicate and a way to makethat, to get that message across
, so that we can begin to seeprogress and actionable steps?

There.
That's a huge challenge of um.
I think.
I think you have to just beopen and honest and recognize
the the situation that you're in.
I would say this if it'ssomething that you did as the
leader, and it's, it's it's yourold crap moment right, yeah,

(42:13):
yeah.
I mean I messed up.
I um, if, if you're open andhonest about something people
may, people may go.
Well, man, jay's a jerk, but atleast he understands he's a
jerk, I mean.
So there's, there's a.
There we can begin to findcommon ground that we all agree
that I'm a jerk and was a jerk.

(42:34):
Now, how do I not be a jerkmoving forward?
So I think you got to.
How?

do.
I ask you to not be a jerk Likethis is what we're doing, is
we're?
We're basically saying pleasechange who and how you are, but
I have to do that first, Like Ihave to represent that change
Right For the company.

I think the right challenge is when it was not
something that you were a partof and it and again, you know
you have to.
You have to recognize it and go.
I know this a challenge.
I know there's, I know there'sbaggage.
I understand there's hurt.
I understand there's brokenrelationships.
I understand feeling the blankof whatever that is.

Sure.

I recognize that.
What I know is this I can't fixwhat has happened, but together
we can chart a path of whatwill happen in the future.
So that's where, in the onlyway I know that you can ever
demonstrate that commitment thatyou want to change is to is to

(43:37):
change.
I mean, I know, you know my, my, my dad always, and my dad
always said this it takes awhole lot of of that a boys to
make up for one.
Oh shit, right, and in lifethat's true.
So if there's a, if there's amess up in the past, the only

(44:00):
way you're going to show thatthere's a change is you do a
whole lot of you make the rightthings and do the right things
moving forward, and you andagain there comes a point in
time where you got to recognizeit, but then then we've got to
let it go, yes, and you need tomove forward.

Yeah, there's a time for acknowledging and then
there's a time to like.
Okay, now we're in.
We're in the stasis of progress, right?
We're no longer reflecting onWhatever right pick, pick a
place in the past and reflect onit.
We are now in the midst ofthose changes and here are the
ways and steps that those aregoing to be.

Can I?
Can I add one thing to that Isthis is, I think, the the best
way to do that is moving forwardas, as success has happened.
Don't only tell the successstories of the leaders.
If you can become a successstory, share of other people,

(45:03):
other people within theorganization.
Again, I love to me it's greatwhen I hear that my leader has
accomplished something, but Ifeel even better when my my
leader shares a story of how myteam in the organization
accomplished something, and so Ithink that is this, is that To
to, to acknowledge that from thepast and to move forward is

(45:26):
that you have to thenacknowledge this incremental
successes along the way ofEverybody in the organization as
much as possible.
Tell the entire story, telleverybody's story, because
people identify with that andthey're like, when you know,
it's one thing for it's onething for me to share something

(45:47):
I've done.
It's a whole another thing whenmy wife brags on something that
I've done with a group ofpeople, I'm with man that makes
me feel a ton better, right, and, and so I think that would be
what would?
the advice that I give is Shareeveryone's success story, and

(46:08):
one of the organizations I workwith they do that Phenomenal.
They have an innovationsuggestion Platform that people
can share, but then the CEO willsend out a company-wide email
on Sarah's innovation suggestionwas phenomenal.
We were able to do this, thisand this.

(46:28):
Thank you so much for that.
So again, it's not look howgreat we are, it was look how
great you are.
You've made us and they tellthat, yes, and that that's the
way to, I think, have impactmoving forward.

I Think what you're describing because we
were taught you had mentioned.
How do we find the languageright?
How?
do I help you as a company andfind the language to communicate
this moving forward, and that's, I think, right there You've
hit it.
That's one of the ways.
In order to Be well, in orderto be a good leader In the way

(47:06):
that you're describing you, youhave to also be a good listener
of what's going on in thecompany.
Most you got.
You remember, nationallampoon's Holiday.
It's having chase Christmasvacation.
Oh yeah, his boss.
His boss would just comethrough like, oh, give me
somebody, put somebody on thephone.
Everyone remembers thatcorporate boss that didn't do

(47:29):
anything, but we all count howto.
Now we're shifting from thatindividual to more.
We're asking him to be morevulnerable so we don't have to,
you know, kidnap him and hiswife on the holidays.

So I'm gonna be on either cousin Eddie in our life
to take care of those moments,I guess all right, oh my god.

So the it's just a great movie.
There's this.
This place of being able tolisten to what's happening in
the company means you have toask for those stories and
inviting those innovationmoments, inviting those
opportunities.
So my dad worked for Eli Lillyand During COVID they enacted
one of those things where theywanted feedback from everybody.

(48:16):
They wanted an open forum forpeople to offer their ideas and
their thoughts on every fromeverything from manufacturing,
logistics, distribution,development, science, you name
it so that people felt like theywere being heard.
But then there's a.
You can get a cacophony ofstuff coming in.
So it's your responsibility todevelop a platform in a way to

(48:36):
gather that that, that feedback,that information that's coming
in, and then Acknowledge, whenit does work, how to implement
it.
If you decide you're going to.
But the very act of doing thatright when we're asking for
change, we're asking you tocreate change in your company
culture, we're asking you tohike this particular mountain
and deliver to us, the employees, a better Work-life balance and

(48:59):
experience all the way around.
One of those steps is by takingthe time to hear and listen to
what your, your employees, yourcompany, your people are doing
and Then recognizing it.
Right, that's in a step ofinvolvement that perhaps most
places and people haven't seenbefore.
Right, so that could be areally great beginning To

(49:22):
developing and getting thatprogress we're talking about and
company culture change.
Which is how do I begin, as aleader, to take acknowledgement
for these things, how do Iparticipate in this and then set
the example?
Well, that's one great wayOffer opportunities for voices
to be heard, recognize thosevoices when they are heard, and
then not just that, but actuallyImplement something, like I've

(49:43):
seen them go it was a great ideaand that was a great suggestion
and dot it off, but no one evertakes action.
Right, right, everybody's gotlots of buckets of ideas, but
where's the action behind it andwhen do we get to see what that
looks like?
You can pat everybody on theback all day, but you're just
gonna end up with the sore elbow.

Yeah, you know, you got to actually have some
action in there, yep so one ofthe things that that I do with
companies is I help them.
That I've done with that isSpecifically will with some of
the.
Some of those organizationswill do like a just a virtual
company wide quarterly update.
What's that?
What's going on?
This is where this is where weat kind of moving forward some

(50:23):
things to know and Within thatupdate, we always go over.
This past quarter, x number ofinnovation suggestions were made
.
Of those, three have beenimplemented, seven are in
progress, two are underevaluation and three couldn't be
done because of APNC, and soagain, it is recognizing the

(50:45):
progress that has been made forthem, and so that is again
that's just a way of You'reyou're seeing that it has been
implemented, and and another waythat we do that is for some
organizations.
I'll do some.
Some call this a huddle in themorning.

Yes, I can stand up right.

I can do this either in person for them or
I've done it virtually as well,but, but again, not not
everybody has the ability tostand up in front of somebody
and and share and make somethingconnect.
So so with that I either Ieither do that myself or I train
the department directors or thebranch managers and that kind

(51:29):
of stuff and and and all they dois is five minutes and it's two
purposes one is to inform andone is to inspire.
And so we in that, in thatinspire piece, is some kind of
something there to kind of, youknow, just encourage people in
what they're doing, and it'stypically tied to somebody's
success story within theorganization that you know we're

(51:51):
talking about.
You know, you know geese flytogether and they do that in the
v formation and that helps topull people along and Helps that
.
Not everybody has to exert the.
Not every goose has to exertthe same amount of effort to
move forward.
Somebody's carrying more theload and that kind of stuff, and
then we switch it around.
Well, for example, when Terrywas working with her team, she

(52:12):
was the lead goose many times.
But over the past few weeksWe've seen, you know, see this,
come on, and now they, they'rehelping to fly together and
they're making an impact andthey're doing ABC and so, and
again, in just a couple ofminutes You've, you've inspired
them about something andrecognize an achievement.
And then it's again when peopleare With, when, when there's

(52:36):
some kind of you smile, you'rein the story, you're, you're,
you celebrate a little bit andthen you put some information
around that that informationsticks much better.
So if it's like, okay, now dothat and don't forget coming up,
we need everybody to go throughand go on the employee
engagement survey, get thatfilled out.
Or there's a new process thateverybody needs to come when it

(52:58):
comes alone, or origination,make sure you go on to do, do,
do, do, do.
But if you can tie thatinspiration information together
, that sticks.
And so now that information isnow connected to that story of
inspiration and it's typicallyremembered much more positively
to begin with, and it is in anegative way On some of that

(53:20):
information.
Sometimes it has to bedelivered.
So that's one of the one of thethings I've figured I've had an
opportunity to be a part ofover the past 10 or 12 years is
helping the internal messagingof Organizations.
That in specifically how itimpacts or culture, and I've you

(53:42):
know that's, that's one of theways that we've been able to do
that, so that goes by?

are you examining?
Are you examining rewardsystems at all, like?
The reason why it occurs to meis what's gonna ask the question
, which is how do we rewardVulnerability?
Right, we're asking not onlyour leaders to be vulnerable but
and show by example whenthey're asking for developing
and vision mapping for culturalchange, internal cultural change

(54:07):
but then we're also asking theemployees to be vulnerable
because they're gonna get up andshare ideas, concepts, new
thoughts, processes, suggestions.
When it's a failure, or whenit's and I don't like to call it
a failure because if you'velearned something from it, then
technically You're not failing,you're just falling and learning
.
How do we ask Not just to sharethe successes but some of the

(54:34):
trials that we go through andbeing vulnerable?
How do we reward vulnerability?
What does that look like?

I'm working vulnerability.
That's a good question.

Or how do we begin to look at rewarding?
Going back, what?

you said there is that the way you reward
vulnerability and Failure,mistakes, whatever when it comes
, every how you want to couchthat the head is Focusing on
what was learned Through that isis so because of that, now we

(55:10):
know we're going to we.
It led us to this next step,and that, had this not happened,
we may never have gotten tothis step, and so I think it is.
What's the sound of music?
Is it is no, no, no, is it MaryPoppins?
A spoonful of sugar makes themedicine go down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah right.

So I Think the way you reward vulnerability, you
reward authenticity and you howyou, how you reward that for
people is you take people on thejourney of what we learn
through that and when that, howthat has helped us to move

(55:55):
forward.
I think, if you can couch itthat way, that it's not just
point out the problem with theissue or the failure or the
vulnerability.
But you know, I Was writing oneof the the weekly resource
trail got things.
I was writing that today and itI was talking about some
financial stuff and this is thatyou have to track your money.

(56:16):
You have to know where you'respending it.
If you don't know where you'respending it, you can't change
how you're spending it, and thatsometimes the vulnerability is
the willingness to track whereyou're at so that you can get
where you want to be.
You can't get somewhere if youdon't know where your starting
point is.
Is what that that whole thingis.
So I think that is how youreward that.

(56:36):
If the reward is not so much, Ithink the reward is is seeing
the next step, as opposed tobeing Focus on how you were
stuck, if that makes sense.

Well, yes, and I think a Good way to Share this
I suppose one is.
I would occurred to me like, inproject management, we have
what's called lessons learned,and that is at the, usually at
the end of an iteration, or whathave you, when they talk about
lessons learned, so that theycan begin to take an Apply, or
in those lessons forward?

(57:09):
I think the other side of thisis In Vulnerability.
Isn't the act of pointing outwhat was done wrong.
It's the Presence, awarenessand availability of recognizing
how you're living, who you'rebeing and what you're doing, and

(57:31):
that there are changes thatcould be made in order to move
forward.
Right, right, and Truevulnerability it's just
recognizing that that's wasgreat, but that's not where we
want to be now and we want tomove in this direction.
So those, if those thingsaren't serving us, then that's
okay.
It isn't a judgment about,though.

(57:51):
They're not good or bad,they're just not serving where
we're headed now.
And true vulnerability is ableto recognize that, point them
out and to make suggestions forhow to begin to move forward and
make those changes.
And I think Gratitude, I thinkyou know we need to look at.
Thank you for sharing yourlesson learned, thank you for

(58:12):
taking the time and the energyto walk down that particular
path.
You doing it in your departmentnow saved 30 30 other people
than other departments.
Not having to make that step orthose 23 steps and realizing
that this is where we can go now.
Right, that is valuable havingthat information.

(58:33):
I now know it was Edison said.
I now know 10,000 ways not tomake a light bulb, like we need
the 10,000 steps, we need theother 10,000 steps, we need the
knowledge and the information ofwhat was gained in taking those
10,000 steps.
And I think a lot of companiesjust bypass those steps and was
like well, we just want the endresult, we just want to know how
it was.
Well, no, there's experience tobe had.

(58:56):
What taking those actionablesteps and recognizing A why they
did or didn't work, what youcan get out of them, how they
can be applied in other ways.
And, by the way, having thatperspective means that you can
now take a look at those 10,000steps and say they didn't work
here.
But something I realized whiletaking those steps is that 2,373

(59:18):
of them could be applied overhere and make this entire
department more efficient.
Most of us don't think aboutthat.
A lot of executives probablydon't realize that, while our
staff are taking those 10,000steps, there is value to be had
from those lessons and from thatinformation, and if it is put

(59:38):
into a way that can then beutilized for progress in other
departments, it's a totalwin-win.
I think you got productivity,efficiency, you've got all those
different things that areimproving as a result of
allowing people to take the timeto be vulnerable and take those
steps.
So let's jump back a little bit.
Your OG story with fear.

(01:00:00):
Your origin story with fear.
As an entrepreneur, I startedout when you were in college,
losing your opportunity to playbaseball, do you?
When you were talking to mebefore about this?
It's interesting, because Iknow a lot of people don't have
the moment that happenedsimultaneously, where they

(01:00:23):
recognize opportunity.
Right, you add that huge changewhere, all of a sudden, the
dream that you were building andwhat you were heading towards
suddenly just disappeared andyou were able to pivot and sort
of put your energy into thecreativity and landscaping and
the business.

(01:00:45):
How does one prepare themselvesfor these spaces?
Especially when you're young,it can seem, first of all,
daunting.
Second of all, oh my God, whatdo I do?
The world is everything's.
The world, it's all the world,and it's so much bigger and it's
so much the sky is falling forus that we realize when you get
older and you've had hindsightand you and I can look back and
go like dude, trust me, there'sgonna be 83,000 more of those

(01:01:08):
coming.
So just relax, it's gonna begood.
Now is the time to look atopportunity and figure out how
you can pivot, and I think wedon't teach pivoting a lot.
We don't really teach beingprepared.
I don't wanna call it, have aplay and be, have a backup or
whatever.
You know, our parents used toalways say well, what are you
really gonna do, like, if thisdoesn't work out?
Suggesting that you're going tofail.

(01:01:29):
Most of us didn't wanna hearthat message.
We didn't wanna hear that wewouldn't succeed, because we
felt like that was underminingour progress at where we were.
But there is something to besaid for having these skillset
to pivot when it's necessary.

Jat Thompson (01:01:48):
Yeah.
So I'm gonna frame my answerwithin the sports world, if
that's good.
So nowadays, my son-in-law andI coach a travel girl softball
team and what it seems like insports nowadays is kids have

(01:02:10):
become so focused on one sportthat they're missing out on what
they learn from other sportsthat can make them better in the
one that they're the best at.
So for me, what I guess whatallowed me to pivot, is one I

(01:02:33):
was blessed to have incrediblementors in my life my mom and my
dad, my aunt and my uncles, mygrandparents.
Some mentors I had frombaseball and from faith and some
different I've just been.
I was blessed with a greatmentor, so I guess seven of one
is.
Make sure you surround yourselfwith good people would be.

(01:02:53):
It's hard to pivot by yourself.
Secondly, I would say, is thatthe best way to pivot is to be
all in on what you're doing butbe open to other opportunities
that you can learn.
So I would say that, in thesports metaphor, I became a
better baseball player when Iplayed football and I played

(01:03:15):
basketball when I was in schooland I played soccer.
I was the worst soccer playerthat has ever lived in this
entire world.
Ever I played.
I didn't even know that theyhad full backs, but there was a
position called full back onsoccer.
My, here's what I did kick themin the shin or kick the ball,
but one way or the other theywere gonna stop.

(01:03:36):
That was me in soccer.
I am not a soccer player, butwhat I learned in soccer is the
flow of a team and how one thingon one end of the field has an
incredible impact on the other.
That translates to baseball, man, Right, I mean that translated
for me from a baseballstandpoint.
So the only way I know to beable to pivot when the

(01:04:00):
scholarship goes away is that ifI put all my eggs in one basket
and I'm only learning one setof skills and not being open to
learn other things along the way, you have nothing to pivot to.
True, you think you havenothing to pivot to Right and

(01:04:24):
again.
So I think the combination ofhaving the right people and you
pursuing as many other passionsas possible while you're going
after that, whatever that is inyour life that when the door
gets shut, it's not the onlydoor, it's not the only way to

(01:04:46):
do that.
And wow, that is easy to sayand hard to live.

Michael Devous (01:04:50):
Right so Well.
I think it speaks to the factthat, especially when we're
talking young adults here,developing young adults, knowing
what you're capable of is ahuge statement.
It's a huge move.
And if what you've been doingand your parents have been only

(01:05:12):
supporting you in baseball forthe last five or six years while
you're in high school, or onespecific sport, one specific
action, one specific set offocuses, it's gonna be really
challenging for that person torecognize what they're capable
of when there aren't otherpieces of evidence that show

(01:05:32):
what you're capable of.
How, as a parent raising futureentrepreneurs which, by the way,
y'all are out there doing itright now, ladies and gentlemen,
you're out raisingentrepreneurs because they are
growing fast and furious,especially post COVID.
There are so many entrepreneursand people with entrepreneurial
spirit and thank God, I love it.
I think we should be.
I think everybody is a littleentrepreneur.

(01:05:53):
We're all like little creators.
We should be encouraged to dothat.
But in order to be really goodat being an entrepreneur, being
able to pivot and A know whatyou're capable of are two
crucial elements, I think, interms of your own personal
progress.

Yeah, I think it is for me.
I would love to say, michael,that I just immediately pivoted
to landscape, but I didn't pivotthat dramatically.
The first I was like, okay, I'mgonna find another school to
play at, I'm gonna go try out.

(01:06:30):
And so sometimes the only wayyou can make the big pivot is
that you're willing to make thesmall little ones along the way.
That what I found is this Iwent to another school, went to
have a bad tryout.
Things just didn't work out,didn't get there, went on to
school locally.
Coach never talked to me aboutplaying at that school.

(01:06:55):
My buddy went to play who got ascholarship at that school.
Coach came to him and goes man,where's Jay?
Why is he coming out?
He goes, well, he's not coming.
You never talked to him.
And so what I did was this isthe only way I pivoted from
baseball to landscape is therewere some small little shifts

(01:07:15):
along the way to prepare me tomake that.
Okay, I had to realize Ipivoted from one, lost it,
pivoted to another one thought Iwas gonna do it didn't work out
.
There is that you have to makethe realization that the door's
closed and stop trying to kickthat one in and start looking
for the cracks on the other ones, and sometimes it's small

(01:07:38):
little pivots along the way thatgets you to the one.
That's there's the open door,and that's for me what it was.
And so I tried, I tried, justdidn't.
Work went on.
Landscape was something I lovedas well.
I had done that for myself, forother people, as I was a kid,
like I told you.
I mean, I'd be nine years old,pushing a mower around.

(01:08:00):
Somebody's gotta have theirgrass mowed in the neighborhood,
I mean.
So just walk around and lookfor the bad yards and knock on
the door right.

I mean, that's what you do.
You're talking about seeingopportunity.
You know, as a kid I thoughtyou know mowing the lawn.
I do it for my parents.
Why would I wanna do it foreverybody else?
My God, it takes up myafternoon, you know, and I think
there's a different mindsetbetween the young arts Prenuer
and me, which was, you know,seeing this lawn mower and the

(01:08:29):
gas can and realizing but if Idid this and I made 20 bucks off
my lawn and I did this for 20lawns in the area and I got $400
, I just did math real quick bythe folks you know.
My dad is listening to thisright now, shaking his head
because he knows I can't add, Ihave my own origin story with
math, which was just math wasnever my thing and I have this

(01:08:50):
whole concept.
It was like funny because I wascoming from college.
My dad was so sweet, he alwayssupported me no matter what,
even in my stupidity, and heused to give me this gas
cartexco gas card.
And I'm on the side of the road, I've run out of gas, I'm
pissed and irritated and I'mcalling him because I can't
understand how I could end upout of gas, because I know that

(01:09:14):
there's another quarter of atank in there.
There's five quarters, and Ionly spent four of the quarters
of the tank, so there's gotta beanother quarter.
And he's like what are youtalking about?
What's funny?
Five quarters, son.
And I'm like yeah.
He's like are you sure there'sfive quarters?
Yeah, dad, I was looking at itright here.
It's got five lines.

(01:09:35):
You know markings in there andI hadn't used up all of them.
That's why I started myconsulting company.
It's called Fifth QuarterConsulting, because there's
always room in the tank.
There's always something.

That's hilarious.
I loved it.

We're gonna find that fifth quarter, we're gonna
implement that and we're gonnamake that happen.
So I think you know learning topivot is key.
I think being surrounded bymentors and I think that's the
difference, like you're talkingabout you know you can be
surrounded by important people,influential people, but a real
mentor like having a real mentorin your life can be a game

(01:10:15):
changer at what you believeyou're capable of doing.
There's a difference betweensomeone who gives good advice
and someone who shows you a wayforward, and I've had mentors
that have shown me the wayforward out of where I was.
That's different.
Like just showing you how to dosomething or how something can

(01:10:38):
be done is very different thanshowing you how to get out of
where you are.
Especially if you've dug anddug yourself in and you're, like
me, a stubborn son of a bitchwho just can't seem to get his
head figured out, and you'restuck in a place because you
made some bad choices, it's hardto see how to get out of there.
And a good mentor, I think youknow, whether that's ministry or

(01:10:58):
coach or whatever could be thatkey to helping you see how to
pivot from where you are out andinto the next version of
yourself.

Yeah, my dad.
You know I got a lot of quotesfrom my dad through the years
that you know kind of havealways stuck with me, but he
always said yes.

I'll thank dads right now, that's right.

He said that and they're quote.
Yeah, that's right.
He said that you know somelessons you have to learn the
hard way yourself, but if youcan learn a lesson from someone
else, that's even better,because you know you don't have
to go through all the hard partof it to have learned that.
And so I think that's what amentor does is they are.

(01:11:46):
They help you understand whichobstacles you need to go through
and which obstacles you shouldplow around, because they know
that going through certainobstacles is going to make you
better.
And they know that certainobstacles are better for you not
to waste your time with that,because the experience is not

(01:12:09):
going to move you forward and Ithink that's the valuable part
of a mentor.
Speaking of mentors, so I wasdoing some training in Atlanta
for a company I work with somebusiness development training
and I met Stephen Falk.
He is an author, wrote the bookcalled Intrinsic Motivation
incredible book and you weretalking about seeing these

(01:12:34):
opportunities and that you know.
You saw a mower that you neverwanted to touch after your dad
made you mow your grass.
I would see the mower and I didthe math in my head, going I
can, I counted up how many yardswere around the block and I
could do all that kind of stuff.
Stephen Falk in IntrinsicMotivation he talks about.

(01:12:54):
Here's the book in a nutshellit's a FEO.
Focus on exciting outcomes, asopposed to the process or the
pivot that has to happen.
Focus on the outcome if thepivot does happen and I think
that is the thing is focus onthe exciting outcomes.
And he said this he learned tomake doing taxes fun Because and

(01:13:18):
the way he said that is becausehe understood this is that when
he got the taxes done right, hefocused on an outcome, that was
, the taxes were done and he wasable to do this.
I was telling this.
I was telling this recommendthis book to somebody, the other
day and I was talking to themand they're like I told them
about the taxes, they didn'tlaugh like you did, which most
everybody does.

(01:13:39):
He had the biggest smile cameon.
Gary's face and he said man, Ilove tax season.
He says because the way I'vegot it set up, I know this.
What I get back on taxes everyyear funds the family vacations,
the family vacation for us, andso I can't wait for the taxes

(01:14:01):
to get done.
What he's done is this insteadof focusing on the dread of
doing taxes, he is going tofocus on the exciting outcome
that, once the taxes are done,what it brings for him and his
family.
And to me, that what Stephenwrites about in that book, that
intrinsic motivation within us,is that if we see the outcome as

(01:14:24):
opposed to all the stuff thatit.
You know, pivots are not easyand pivots are not always
comfortable.
Right, the only way we can becomfortable being uncomfortable
is when we focus on the excitingoutcome on the other side of
the pivot as opposed toeverything that's going to
happen when the pivot has tohappen.
To me, great book.

(01:14:46):
Great.
I got a chance to pick hisbrain.
He was in some of the trainingand during the breaks and stuff.
I just sat there and had a listof questions that I just went
through and I was like justgetting stuff from him and stuff
like that.
But great book intrinsicmotivation focus on exciting
outcomes.

Well, I think this speaks to some of the
things I talk about, both in thespeech which is making for your
friend, but also on the showI've mentioned a few times.
The human brain loves to tellstories.
It's one of the things that wejust do naturally, which is we
need a beginning, middle and anend.

And.

I think for those of us who spend a lot of
our energy and time, we do great.
One of the things we do as kidsand this is what humans do too
is we dream.
We dream big.
We dream about life, or dreamabout becoming superheroes, or
dream about becoming doctors andspace astronauts, and you name

(01:15:42):
it.
We dream and then, as we getolder, we those dreams become
hobbies and projects.
Those dream become businessstartups.
Those dreams become Changingwho and how we live and what
we're gonna do in the nextmoment to become the next great
version of ourselves.
But that doesn't mean that thatthere isn't an unknown to this
right.

(01:16:03):
The end is always unknown.
We don't know what tomorrow isgonna bring.
We don't know what's gonnahappen.
If I put my time on energy andbuilding this company, I don't
know that the outcome is gonnabe positive.
I could die, it could disappear.
Who knows right?
But our brain does this funnything or it's desperate to fill
in the end for us.
It needs to know.
For some reason it has to havean answer.

(01:16:24):
And if you don't Focus onexciting outcomes, if you don't
put an exciting outcome on theend of that story, your brain is
gonna fill it in with thethings that you doubt.
It's gonna fill it in with thethings You're not sure about.
It's gonna make you think, oh,you're not worthy of this,
you're not capable of this, youmay not have enough money for
this, you didn't get trained forthis.
Who do you think you are?

(01:16:45):
Imposter syndrome, all thosethings that could come creeping
on in right and get in our way.
And I love the idea of focusingon the exciting outcome, because
if you can write it down, ifyou can put it on a dream board,
a vision board or whatever, andyou can write it down, you are

(01:17:06):
Engaging with the outcome.
You're engaging with yourfuture.
You're engaging with potentialright, not just waiting and
wondering, not just making someplans and hoping for the best.
You're engaging with it, whichmeans that the fear, the doubt,
has less opportunity to infuseitself into your future and into
your energies, and thatpotential for that outcome, that

(01:17:28):
good, focused, exciting outcome, has greater opportunity to
present itself, greateropportunity to manifest in your
life Because you are activelyputting energy towards that
right.
I think that's wonderful.
I mean so what?
That's the tip for today, folks, we're gonna end the show right
here.
You can go.
Don't be successful by doingexactly that focus on exciting

(01:17:51):
outcomes.
Um, I think that's part of it.
I think that's part of whatentrepreneurs do is we focus on
exciting outcomes?
That's why we even start thebusiness to begin with, because
we see this incredibleopportunity, this incredible
gift, this incredible service oror product or whatever it is,
and then we have to Take all thesteps to get there.

(01:18:13):
And during that journey is whenwe can get knocked down.
During that journey is when weneed to pivot.
During that journey is when weneed to recognize what we're
capable of and you know Ratesrefit ourselves to meet the
dream.
Right, we got to adjust.
I'm not always gonna end up thesame person that I started out
with.
You know One of these greatquotes that I love from

(01:18:36):
conversations with God, neilDonald Walsh, who wrote this,
this series of books aboutconversations with God.
He was asking that same questionabout, like, why do we go
through some of the things we gothrough?
Why do we have to go throughthese hard things?
And a lot of God's response inthis, where he was very.
He said sometimes we have to,sometimes we have to become that

(01:18:57):
which we are not in order tounderstand and know that which
we were meant to be.
Hmm, and A boy does that notSpell out some of the shit In my
life, bro?
Like okay.
So it took me a long time torealize that which I needed to

(01:19:19):
be, because I had to go througha lot of that which I was not,
and go.
I definitely know that's not me.
I definitely know that's notwhat I want to do, because I've
done it and I don't like it andI don't want Do it.
Other people are like my dad whoare like why did you have to go
do it?
I could have told you it was nogood.
You know, because he sees it.
He's that mentor who's like,yeah, don't do that.

(01:19:39):
I'm like, but I got to, I gotto do that stupid thing first
before I can do this reallysmart thing over here.
It's like I'm stuck.
You know I'm like one of thoseindividuals who has to do the
dumb put my hand on the hotplate, hit ten times.
Well, are you sure?
Is it the same with the right?

(01:19:59):
Because I don't know.
I mean, maybe the left is supersensitive or the right's not.
You know I'm my brain does that.
That's what my brain does.
It's like well, I'm gonna testevery you could be wrong once
and if I get it right, just inthat one moment, I feel
vindicated for making the stupidchoice.
But you know, trust me folks,there's a lot of us out here

(01:20:20):
who've stumbled and you don'thave to make them choices.
If you want to learn from us,you know, get, listen to a show,
get a mentor, find somebody tohelp you focus on those exciting
outcomes, because that's that,that is Possible and you can
pivot, which is great.
I think these lessons arereally, really good for us.
Before we move to, you know,saying goodbye Any major

(01:20:43):
obstacles, challenges and thingsyou currently face that you see
that we need to address, or asa culture, society or a company,
especially when you'reproviding coaching and
consulting for these kind ofservices.

I would wrap it up this way from a culture
standpoint is the only way youfix culture is Taking personal
responsibility for yourself inthe culture first.
I Can't fix it before I fix me,and I have to.

(01:21:21):
What I mean by that is I can'thave, I can't expect people, I
Can't expect people to be thetype of culture I want to be in
if I'm not willing to be thatmyself.
Well, yeah, I mean that's thechallenge right there a lot of
times is we, the.
The big challenge is today, iswe live in this?

(01:21:45):
A overall human being culturetoday of Talking about the
things that everybody else isdoing wrong and not being
willing to address the things inour own life first, and I think
that's the.

Apologize for that, that's human nature.

No worries, that's , that's just.
But that's human nature and ofitself.
And I think my I had a.

I'm not gonna say who I had this conversation
with, but it was recently.
Now he may know who he is whenhe hears me talk about it.
Son, here he has mentioned onrepeatedly to me.
You know I Like meet up withhim and catch up with him.
How are things going?
How are things?
I'm still working, you know, I'mworking on letting go of blah

(01:22:35):
blah blah and I'm like what'sinteresting, you, you've been
working on letting go of blahblah blah for Three, four or
five years now.
Is there a certain point whenyou just actually let go and
don't talk about letting go anddon't Think about letting go,
but just actually let go?
And I and I wondered about thatas a, as an idea.

(01:22:56):
We become so focused on theStrategy, the concept of change
right, the idea of culturalchange, that we spend so much
time writing about it, talkingabout it, thinking about it, we
don't actually do the change.
Is there something we can helplight, a match for folks to be

(01:23:20):
like okay, it's time to shit andget off that pot.
Or you know, yes, it's awesomethat you want to implement
change, it's great that youthink you can have a strategy or
whatever, but let's talk aboutsome real steps you can take as
a leader in your organization tobegin to make this happen.
Hmm.

I Would say if I had someone in a leadership
position, ask, ask me for thatadvice.

I would say higher J Thompson and hiked a
mountain.
That's step number one.

Yeah, outside of that, the second thing I guess
no, I would say this is that youhave to spend some time
identifying the things that onlyyou can do as a leader.
Good and then, once you'veidentified that, anything else
that's not on that list you needto let go and give off to

(01:24:13):
somebody else Okay, becausechances are they can do it
better and more efficient thanyou can and the amount of return
that you're gonna get fromdoing that versus doing the
things that only you can do as aleader Not gonna get that
return.
So that's not maybe letting goof something bad, I think.

(01:24:34):
I Think the greater challengeis letting go of something
you're good at so that you cando what you're best at.

That's the hard nice to let go of.
Yes, remember that, ladies.
Let's repeat that one more time, would you, for everybody.

Yeah, I think the harder thing to let go of is
what you're good at, so that youcan do what you're best at.

Amen, and I think a Little bit of
introspection and a little bitof understanding about what it
is You're really good at whatyou're best at, I should say, as
opposed to what you just goodat and then learning to Delegate
the good out to others who arebest at it right, so that you
can save your energy for thethings you really need to be

(01:25:14):
amazing at.
Is is a key, is does the hike,the mountain?
Help leaders identify thosethose things?

Yeah, I mean that's more just in the.
What we do with the, with ourone-on-one coaching and stuff
like that is asking that I meanpart of those switchbacks of
personal development.
Part of that is Defining whoyou are, what you do, what you
do best, and part of that isalso accountability.
So there's a switchback ofdefinition and the switchback of

(01:25:43):
accountability and that's partof that process is Of letting
someone coach you is not thatthey've got the answers, but
they lead you to discover thosefor yourself, and I think that's
what that's one of the thingswe do a hike the mountain from a
coaching standpoint.

Well, there's been I mean, golden nuggets
galore on this particularJourney today, ladies and
gentlemen, of hiking themountain on the fearless road,
by the way, which is you know itfocused on exciting outcomes
mentorship, being able to pivotCultural change from the inside,
understanding what you're bestat so that you can help others

(01:26:23):
be good at what they're good at,or letting go of what you're
good at and Delegating that sothat you can focus on what
you're best at Chalkful ofreally amazing stuff.
And, if you are curious aboutwhether or not you Want to
address your switchbacks, makesome cultural change.
I got Jay Thompson and hike themountain org, where I think you
can discover Some prettyincredible things about yourself

(01:26:46):
and what you're capable of.
But also, I think you're gonnadiscover what Jay is capable of
and he can bring some magic andyou brought some for us today
some incredible Advice and tipsand and insights.
Thank you very much for sharingyour time with me again.
My friend, I love talking toyou.
You know we can spend hours atthis table, this particular
table, listening to each othertalk about this stuff, but we

(01:27:08):
may have to have you back onagain to do a follow-up, but I
really appreciate your time.
I'm grateful to you and yourfamily.
I hope you have a wonderfultrip.
You're going to cure Sal.

Yeah, gonna be my son's getting married gonna get
to do that.
That ceremony is actually aweek from today, so excited
about that.

That's incredible.
I love that for you.
You have to share that with mewhen you get back in town.
I love to hear about it and seethe pictures that save travels,
my friend, please.
And then tips and tricks,ladies and gentlemen.
They want to find out moreabout Jay Thompson.
Where do they go?

Ah, easiest is probably just go to the website
hike the mountainorg that's orgnot calm.
Or you can just email me atthis Jay y at hike the mountain
org and I'll be love to connectand figure out.
You know what it looks like tohike the mountains that are in

(01:28:02):
your life when it comes to that.
So absolutely need help touchwith me that way.

Yep, and if you need to look at your switchbacks
or whatever, I'll put the linksand things down below so you
guys know where you can get moreinformation about today.
Jay, thank you so much forjoining us on the fearless road,
hiking our own particularmountain For success.
This has been an incrediblejourney and we've learned a lot,
and I can't wait to learn somemore from you.

Be blessed.
Be well, my friend.
I appreciate it, it's you'revery welcome.
I appreciate you giving me theopportunity.
Like I said, I always get alittle bit of my Michael isms
from you and Got some good stuff.

Quarters of a tank.
You know, I got some gems.
Let me tell you if you ever, ifyou ever wonder.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks everybody for listening
, for lending your ears andtaking the time.
Have a blessed and amazing day,stay fearless, hike your own
mountain and remember, if youever need help and support, we

(01:29:06):
are here Jay Thompson at hikemountain org.
Michael DeVue at the fearlessroad.
So yeah, have a great weekeverybody.
We'll see you next time.
Thanks you.

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06. Hike the Mountain: How Jay Thompson's Transformative Journey Fosters Personal and Professional Growth

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