October 1, 2024 • 39 mins
Entrepreneurs, are you equipped to handle the emotional turmoil that inevitably comes with the highs and lows of the journey? In this insightful episode of the Fearless Road Podcast, multi-award-winning therapist and international best-selling author Santou Carter provides invaluable tools for navigating grief and loss – challenges that extend beyond the personal and deeply affect the entrepreneurial spirit. Discover the STEER method – encompassing Spirituality and Religion, Tools and Techniques, Education, Emotions, and Relationships – and gain a profound understanding of how these elements contribute to holistic well-being, especially during times of immense stress.
Learn how to break down communication barriers, overcome isolating defense mechanisms, and foster genuine connections, vital skills for any entrepreneur leading a team. This episode provides a roadmap for self-compassion, guiding you to develop a resilient new identity and recognize the immense personal growth that emerges from navigating life's transitions. Santou's wisdom extends to the importance of open-mindedness in spiritual and religious practices, encouraging us to embrace the diverse expressions of faith that fuel our inner strength.
Key Highlights:
- Introducing the STEER Method: Santou Carter shares her unique framework for coping with grief, encompassing spirituality, tools, education, emotions, and relationships.
- The Power of Self-Compassion: Michael and Santou emphasize the importance of being kind to oneself during grief and learning to self-soothe.
- Grief as a Catalyst for Change: They discuss how grief can lead to personal growth, expanded awareness, and increased compassion for others.
- Cultural Sensitivity and Diverse Perspectives: Santou highlights the need to understand and respect individual expressions of spirituality and faith traditions.
- Vulnerability as a Superpower: Michael shares his belief that vulnerability is a strength, not a weakness.
Quotes:
- Santou Carter: "Self-compassion is really, really key. Learning to be gentle with yourself."
- Michael Devous: "When I'm in grief mode, my autonomic system...begins before I even know I'm in that state."
- Santou Carter: "The work really is about expansion and an expansion of perspective and awareness."
- Michael Devous: "You must be aware that's your shifting and adapting cause all humans do, we're built to do it."
Takeaways:
- Grief is a complex and multifaceted experience that impacts all areas of life.
- Self-compassion is crucial for navigating grief and finding healing.
- Grief can be a catalyst for personal growth and expanded awareness.
- It's important to be open-minded and respectful of diverse perspectives on grief and spirituality.
- Seeking support from others is essential during the grieving process.
Persons of Note Mentioned:
- Santou Carter: Multi-award-winning therapist, international bestselling author, professional speaker, coach, and trainer.
- Michael Devous: Host of the Fearless Road podcast.
Supporting Links:
- Santou Carter's Website: griefsupport.co
- Free Resources: griefsupport.co/freeresources
- Contact Santou: griefsupport.co/contact
Important Links:
- Santou Carter's Website: griefsupport.co
- Fearless Road Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@TheFearlessRoad
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey there, everybody, and welcome to the Fearless
Road podcast, where we exploreentrepreneurial insights,
stories and advice on embracingfear, breaking boundaries and
achieving goals on the road tosuccess.
I'm your host, michael DeVue,and after years of overcoming
obstacles and tragedy, I beganto wonder how does someone
become fearless?
(00:24):
Well, that's exactly what we'regoing to find out.
In every episode, we dive intothe lives of individuals who've
learned to turn fear into fuel,face some incredible challenges
and cultivate a fearless mindsetwhile navigating their fearless
road.
So join me for in-depthinterviews with some amazing
people where we investigate moredeeply the valleys on their
(00:45):
road to success, because thevalleys are where character is
built, foundations are laid andwhere the fearless are born.
Welcome to the Fearless RoadPodcast.
(01:07):
So, hey, ladies and gentlemen,welcome back to the Fearless
Road Podcast.
I'm your host, michael DeVue,and you know it's been a little
bit of.
We've had a bit of a summerbreak, which is fine Everybody
deserves some time off, right,and we've got a special
(01:28):
interview today that has been inthe works for quite a while Now
.
She and I have known each otherfor some time, have been trying
to get together to make thishappen for you, really just sort
of exploring the avenues andthe ways we wanted to share our
experiences, both together andindividually.
Very fascinating backgrounds,very interesting crossroads of
experiences that I think couldhave a great impact and be
interesting for you, thelisteners.
(01:49):
So, without further ado, themulti-award-winning therapist,
as well as internationalbest-selling author,
professional speaker, coach andtrainer, she supports families
and community groups and hasbeen a professional for over 25
years, through many of life'schallenges of loss, health
diagnosis such as cancer afterdeath, grief and spiritual
(02:11):
crisis across many of life'sstages.
Please welcome Sansu Carter.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thank you very much, Michael.
Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You're welcome.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm good, I'm all right.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, are you ready?
Are you ready to get into someof the interesting questions?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I am.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, so when you and I were talking last time and,
by the way, you probably knowthis about me my family had gone
through a fire or whatever, andI was learning more about
Santu's grief counseling and shewas speaking to me and
supporting me in that endeavor.
Now, on the Fearless Road, wetalk about fear, at the
intersection of fear andinnovation.
(02:51):
As entrepreneurs, fear is oneof those areas that we are
constantly being faced with,because we're asking for all
kinds of challenges that comeour way by stepping into these
new versions of ourselves, right, that come our way by stepping
into these new versions ofourselves, right, and some of us
, most of us need help.
We need someone to talk to, weneed someone to support us and
(03:13):
someone who specializes in griefcounseling, as well as stress,
stress, stress, anxiety, dealingwith all of those different
things.
The way that we deal with it inour heads, emotionally,
psychologically, can be a realadvantage to ensuring that your
mental well-being is front andcenter for you on your journey
to success, because if you getthere and you're unhappy and
(03:36):
you're miserable, it's not worththe ride, right?
Right absolutely.
So you have the STEER method,S-T-E-E-R STEER method, which is
a very sort of unique holisticapproach for mental and
emotional well-being,specializing in fear and anxiety
(03:56):
and trauma.
So can you tell me, share withus a little bit about what the
STEER method is, and that'ssomething you came up with, Is
that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It is.
It is Because I think loss andgrief impacts us holistically.
It doesn't just impact ouremotions, but impacts us in so
many ways.
It impacts us physically aswell, which people don't realize
.
You can feel very heavy.
You could want to just be inbed all day.
You don't have an appetite.
(04:23):
It shuts down your brain in asense and shuts down your
appetite.
So it affects people in many,many ways, and so I was
considering how to help peopleholistically and that's how I
came up with my STEER approach.
So the S stands for spiritualityand religion.
So that's an important partbecause people will often wonder
(04:46):
either you know, if a cancerpatient is dying and I've worked
with them in the hospitalsetting they will often ask me
like what's going to happen tome, you know, after I die?
So the whole kind of aspect ofthe soul and spirituality and
what happens after one dies is abig question before and after
(05:08):
death.
So that's the S.
The S is for spirituality andreligion.
The T is for tools andtechniques to help people cope.
The E one of the E's, the firstE, is education.
So I use the psychoeducationalapproach to help people
understand what they're goingthrough, because that can really
(05:29):
help them figure out strategiesof how to do things differently
.
That's going to help them.
The other E, of course, islooking at their emotions and
how to process their emotions,how to release their emotions
within the session.
And how to process theiremotions, how to release their
emotions within the session.
That's really important becausesometimes, particularly men
don't feel able to cry in public.
(05:50):
For example, women sometimesdon't feel able to cry in public
or at work, so they'll run intothe bathroom or even at home
you might have a family membersaying why are you still crying,
right, can't you stop crying?
You know that kind of thing.
So, so at least I provide asafe, supportive space where
they can really release anyemotion, including anger and
(06:11):
rage, if that's the emotion thatthey have and need to process
that through.
So that's the second E and thenthe.
The R is relationships.
So obviously, relationships areimpacted when you're in grief,
um, and the relationships I workwith could be, uh, in the
family units.
(06:31):
You know the fam, you know the,the, the married family unit.
It could be the family oforigin, so, like your, your
parents, your siblings, and itcould be extended family as well
.
So learning how to manage, oh,and friends and colleagues, of
course as well, because some ofus spend a lot of time at work
and we need to learn how to askfor support from managers and
(06:54):
work colleagues if we'regrieving um, and and from family
members, because they will allhave a different approach,
because we all have a differentrelationship with the person who
has died right.
So an aunt is not going tounderstand the intensity of your
grief for, say, a mother or afather that you are really close
(07:16):
to, so they're not going tohave the same way of relating to
you or communicating with youway of relating to you or
communicating with you.
So you will get many differentresponses from family members
and it can be a challengelearning how to communicate
effectively to communicate yourneeds.
And there's one, michael,there's one more thing, I want
(07:37):
to say that sometimes that lackof ability to communicate
effectively can cause conflict.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And it can cause family estrangement as well.
So deaths don't always bringfamilies closer together.
Sometimes it breaks them apart,and that's a really important
point to make.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
If you know what I'm saying or have experienced yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, yes, because it's interesting that you're
talking about perspectives.
There's a couple of things thatcame to mind, because we talk a
lot about the entrepreneurialjourney.
When we deal with our strainsand stresses whether that's
grief or whether that's just astrain or stress based on a new
(08:23):
endeavor, launching a product,business, what have you?
What occurred to me was thecoping skills and mechanisms
that we currently use when we'refacing the public world are not
the same as the ones when we'rein grief.
(08:43):
It's fascinating to me because Ihad some recent loss, which
you're aware of, dear family andfriend, as well as a few other
things, and when I'm in griefmode, my autonomic system, my
automatic system to protect meand deal with grief, begins
before I even know I'm in thatstate.
(09:08):
So it's automatically, you know,filtering and doing things to
keep me functioning in aspecific way for everybody else,
right that I've set up theserelationships.
People have expectations, Ineed to deliver, and it doesn't
occur to me until I break, untilI've had my emotional breakdown
, that I haven't been caring formyself because I've put these
(09:31):
automated systems that we use tocope.
Just start going a conversationwith somebody who doesn't
understand you, you can'tcommunicate because you're in
grief mode and the temporaryfunctions that your body uses to
cope, that your mind uses tocope, that your heart uses to
(09:53):
cope have run out and you'rejust left with you.
And if that person doesn'tunderstand where you're coming
from, if we lack theperspectives and the
understanding and the compassionto know when a person's hitting
that particular wall, I can seeeasily how everyone can get
their feelings hurt reallyquickly.
(10:13):
People can be separated and notcome together, you know, to
heal.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, and people don't often know how to have
those reparative conversationsin order to heal the
relationship.
And there's something that yousaid um, when you're talking
about your, your I don't know ifyou were meaning your defenses
come up or when you're talkingabout your autonomic reactions
(10:45):
that happen, I was thinkingabout fear.
So if you were meaning thatsomehow my defenses come up or I
go into a kind of mode ofsurvival mode, in a sense, it's
stemming from fear.
So you're trying to protectyourself from the other threats
in your life because, in a sense, the death that you've
(11:08):
experienced you know, if you'vehad a parent die or even a
spouse die or anyone reallythat's significant to you.
That is a threat, because youare now thinking how am I going
to cope, how am I going tosurvive?
Right, and then you see theother people who are still
living it, but in your world, apotential threat as well,
especially if they don'tunderstand or offer empathy or
(11:30):
compassion.
It is a kind of threat.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I think I was thinking of the wound side of it
.
It is, you know, when you'vegot a visible wound, you know
your coping mechanisms on how todeal with dress tend to the
wound when it's an emotionaldamage that you can't see,
especially the loss of a lovedone, right.
That process of themdisappearing from the world is
(11:57):
so difficult and so differentevery single time and it's very
hard for the brain to wrap itsbrain around its mind around
where they went, and each persondeals with that sort of like
where did they go?
Thinking very differently.
And it is a wound because thatgrief is painful.
But when we don't address itopenly, honestly, if we're not
(12:20):
aware of it, what I'm talkingabout, the automatic system of
protection starts protecting thewound from, as you say, those
threats, perceived threats orotherwise, because it doesn't
know anything else, it doesn'tknow how to deal with it.
So it just starts putting upwalls, it starts protecting you
and creating distance, anynumber of different mechanisms.
If we're not familiar with ourown coping skills or the lack
(12:42):
thereof, we could wind up in asituation, two, three, four
weeks down the road, whereyou're in the middle of a public
event or something and you'rejust falling apart and you can't
explain it and nobody knowswhat's going on, except you.
You know, I found myself in aparticular situation that a very
dear person of mine was hostingan event and I had had a little
(13:06):
too much to drink at that time,but I just broke down.
It hit me like a ton of bricksin the middle of this thing and
nobody were like, oh, what'swrong with him?
And it just started pouring out.
I just started releasing andreleasing and before I knew it I
(13:27):
was like what just happened andI wasn't even cognizant at the
time.
I was in a time-space continuumwhere my emotions were just
live, but the rest of me wasparked somewhere else, safe and
sound, away from the spilling ofemotions.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So you know that it's weird and fascinating to me,
but it's also yeah, and it'skind of like, um, a boy or a
buoy, I'm not quite sure how topronounce it, but it's or even
if you take like a big rubberball and you put it, try and
sink it under the water,eventually, as you keep pushing
(14:10):
it down and pushing it down,trying to ignore it, you know
say the ball is grief and youkeep ignoring, you push it down,
push down.
Eventually it will snap out ofyour hands and go whoosh, right
out of the water and that's andthat's the spillage of the
emotions coming up right so yeah, that's why
it's so important to processyour, your emotions, on a
regular basis with someone,rather than trying to push it
(14:32):
down, letting it out a littlebit and then trying to push it
down again to function andrelease it just a little bit.
Like, really give yourselfenough space and time on a
regular basis to really process,because there's a lot of
emotions that will come up, butthere's a lot of meaning to
process as well, and when youcan't process either of those
(14:55):
the emotions or the meaning itcan really leave you confused,
devastated, angry, like it justcreates a whirlwind uh, you know
of chaos.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
And now makes sense to me why certain things are
harder to understand, that I'mnot communicating very well or
I'm not understanding things andit's like my brain is just not
operating and functioning andI'm like what's wrong with me?
Allow ourselves to have,because we just expect us to get
(15:32):
back up and get moving, youknow, because the world needs us
, or you know, or we just, wesimply just lack, like you know,
the skills and the perspectivesand the tools to deal with this
kind of break in our body, inour minds and in our hearts.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, and you've said something really important
there self-compassion.
I mean that is one of the keylearnings I try and help my
clients understand, becauseyou're probably not going to get
the level of compassion thatyou need from others.
You could, and if you do,consider yourself very blessed
(16:16):
and very lucky, because most ofthe time people don't know how
to offer you the compassion thatyou need because they don't
know how long you're going to begrieving.
And sometimes you could be kindof, you know, progressing on
your grief journey, and thenyou'll have a relapse.
People won't know it becauseyou'll try and hide it.
So learning how to offeryourself that self-compassion is
really really key, really key.
(16:38):
Learning to be gentle withyourself.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I've dedicated yes, learning to be gentle with
yourself.
My mother God rest her soul wasone of the most compassionate,
loving individuals who used tojust do that for me.
I could be in the comfort ofher presence and feel that from
her.
Finding that that tether againto this world um is.
(17:02):
It is a long journey.
It's hard to ever find thatkind of love again.
Um, you know, mother's love isvery different.
It's very rare and when thatperson's no longer here it does
feel like this sort of large gapthat you're always wondering if
it's ever going to get filled.
She made me feel, but it is upto me to find resources,
(17:22):
relationships, support, Isuppose in some way that helps
me navigate those leftoverfeelings, adapt to the new world
(17:44):
without that tether.
I always used to say and Inever knew this, I didn't know
that I was tethered to thisplanet by my mother until she
was gone and I felt the physicaldisconnection from this earth,
from the person who brought mehere, and it was a very painful,
weird sensation of feelingunmoored and just like a ship at
(18:11):
sea just lost.
You know, I finally found mybearings and got myself both
some help but also some journalwriting or whatever.
To get back to some sense ofbalance for myself, but I think
it's important for us asentrepreneurs and business
leaders and executives.
And you know, if you'restarting a business, there are
(18:34):
two major parts of your life.
There's your business thatyou're running and then your
private life, and when somethingimpacts you enough that it
brings all of it to a stop, it'sreally important to know where
those tethers are, theindividuals in your life that
you can.
You can trust to be like helpme walk this walk, because it's
(18:57):
going to be hard and I need help, and I think a lot of us have a
hard time asking for that.
We don't want to lean too heavyon people.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
We feel like we're a burden if we do yeah, because
certainly in the Western culturewe're trained to be individuals
, you know, to be self-reliant.
So, yeah, that's huge to kindof fight and resist.
But there's a tip I want togive you, michael.
From what I heard you saying,it might be helpful.
(19:27):
You may have thought of thisalready, may have thought of
this already when your motherleft and when we experience some
major loss within our families,whether we realize it or not,
we have to develop a newidentity.
And I don't know if you've donethe work or have considered
(19:51):
this, but when you were sayingthat, you felt untethered, part
of your grief journey will be toabsorb some of your mother's
characteristics into youridentity so you can self-soothe
like your mother used to sootheyou and also, kind of, you know,
out of the two comes a greateryou know sum of all the parts
(20:13):
right.
So you're creating almost likea new identity, a new you that's
somewhat different butincorporates some aspects and
characteristics of your mother.
So I don't know if you've kindof explored that aspect of your
grief journey in relation toyour mother or not, but just
something for you to think about.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
It's interesting that you reference it that way.
Almost all the other tragediesthat I've dealt with in my life,
I reinvented myself in order toadjust to that situation and it
became a skill set that Ididn't.
I really was not aware that Iwas doing it.
I just was naturallyreinventing myself in order to
(20:51):
come out the other side.
And what's fascinating to meabout that is, you know, one of
the things I say is that youknow, I was so adamant to never
let fear impact my life anddefine who I was.
That fear ultimately impactedmy life and defined who I was.
So it's like you can't help butbe changed by life changing
(21:12):
events.
It's, it's, it's.
I love that you put this upfront, because entrepreneurs,
business leaders, executives,mentors we learn to adapt to so
many different things, but Idon't think we realize I think a
lot of people don't realizewhen something happens tragic,
difficult, challenging, youdon't come out.
Something happens tragic,difficult, challenging, you
(21:33):
don't come out.
The other side the same.
You must be aware that you'reshifting and adapting, because
all humans do.
We're built to do it.
We are built to adapt and learn.
That's what our bodies do.
Millions and millions of cellsevery second do it naturally and
we as humans also becomesomething other than what we
(21:54):
were before.
Right, and I don't know that wesometimes we don't give
ourselves that recognition inthat time to say, hey, a new me
is ready or I need to step intoa new version of myself.
Who else is going to welcome meinto this new world, right,
when the individual that youused to do that is no longer
(22:16):
with us and that space is gone,that energy is gone, the person
that took up that space in yourlife is no longer there.
You have to fill that spacewith something meaningful for
yourself and redefine thatattachment, or the detachment,
if you will, as something newfor yourself.
I love that you said thank youfor allowing me to see it
differently this way, because ithelps me understand some of the
(22:39):
ways that I process my owngrief.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And there's something else I want to add for your
listeners who may not like theword change.
Lots of people don't like theword change and they may not
like the word new either.
So they might be thinking but Idon't want a new identity.
I like the old me, with theperson that I love beside me.
I don't want to change and Idon't want to be new.
I don't want to create a newidentity.
So I'm going to I'm going toadd a different word for those
(23:08):
that may not like the word newor new identity I'm going to use
the word expanded.
So as people grieve, they havean expanded understanding and an
expanded awareness.
And what I was suggesting aboutyou incorporating your mom is
you kind of expanding to be ableto include her and bring her in
(23:31):
, and when there's two of youliving in your body, you're
expanded.
You have to make room.
You're expanding.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Along with all the other personalities that are in
here.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, so that's.
I'm not going to agree withthat.
That's up for you to decide.
But that's another way oflooking at it.
The grief can expand us and oneof the things that if we learn
to offer ourselvesself-compassion, we can then
expand our understanding ofcompassion in general and we can
(24:06):
then offer other peoplecompassion if they're in grief.
So the work work really isabout expansion, and expansion
of perspective and awareness.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, that is.
I mean, that's the journeywe're on.
I mean we're always expandingand if we understand that
through every experience wegather more information, not
only about ourselves but theworld around us, we take that
information, we use it to adaptand adopt to the world that we
want, right, the world that wechoose.
Some of us put it out there tomake things happen and some of
(24:39):
us put it internally to use as alens to look at the world and
view the world through.
Speaking of that, which I thinkis a nice segue of going into
navigating the journey, as wewere saying about cultural
sensitivity, talking about notonly the spiritual beliefs which
you mentioned earlier with theS in STEER, which is spiritual
(25:05):
and religious.
There's so many differentviewpoints on this people who
approach the world, whether it'sthrough a spiritual
understanding of their own God,of their own choosing, or
whether it's something else.
How do you do that?
How do you handle addressingthe multitude of different
(25:26):
perspectives and experiences?
As a grief counselor, what doesthat look like for you?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Well, first I want to say, and help people understand
, that culture is very much tiedto religion, or rather the
other way around Religion istied to culture and religion can
be expressed differently, likelike, for example, the Orthodox
church.
You've got the Greek Orthodox,the Russian Orthodox, the
Ethiopian Orthodox, the ArmenianOrthodox, and they all kind of
(25:55):
express themselves differentlybased on the culture that
they're in right, yes, religionand culture are very much tied
together.
How do I deal with thedifferent religious perspectives
(26:17):
and views and traditions?
I personally went on anexploratory journey of all the
different major denominations,really of Christianity in
particular, but I also, when Iwas studying for my Master's of
Divinity, I also got reallyinterested in actually even
(26:42):
before then, I got interested inother world religions as well
and studied world religions inuniversity and receptive to all
different religions, becauseyou're dealing with patients
with no discrimination, so anypatient- of any faith or
tradition or spiritual or faithtradition could call upon you to
be there for them and to bethere in the way that they need
(27:04):
or in the best way that you canoffer your service.
So I've always been open-mindedaround religion and I've always,
always had a fascinated.
I had a fascination and havealways studied it.
So to me it doesn't faze me ifsomeone from a different
tradition comes to me and youknow, and I just get them to
explore what's meaningful foryou.
And let me tell you likeindividuals practice their faith
(27:29):
and traditions in such a littledifferent ways than other
people.
So there's never one cookiecutter way of doing things, like
no human, no person will everdo faith in exactly the same way
as someone else.
So really the question is likewhat's meaningful for you around
(27:53):
what you're saying about yourfaith, around your spirituality
and I understand the wordspirituality in a very broad way
.
To me, spirituality is aroundrelationships and what gives you
strength.
Exercise with some nurses in ahospital and I asked them to
(28:14):
stand by different pictures ofwhat spirituality meant for them
and some of them stood by pets.
For some people, pets they're,they're, they're dogs or cats is
their form of spiritualconnection.
Some people went stood bynature, some people went by
family, some people went stoodnear, like a religious
institution, symbols and images.
So different people willexplore spirituality and faith
(28:39):
in different ways and I'm hereto then guide them, you know, to
explore it further, to exploreit in a way they may not have
been able to in an institution.
They may not have been able tokind of openly say what they're
thinking, criticize, deconstructand then reconstruct their
theology or their faith.
(28:59):
So I help them explore all thatI love deconstructing religion
and faith and traditions and getthem to reconstruct it in a way
that's going to be meaningfulfor them and a way that's
effective and useful for them,because it has to be useful for
you personally.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, it's interesting because, yes, well,
and first of all, I love the.
I just love that every humanexperiences life and expresses
it differently, from alldifferent angles, whether that's
a spiritual angle or not,really would love us to remember
that when we're dealing withthe diversity and the
divisiveness of today's thinking, where others would have us be
(29:44):
separated, I think what we needto remember is that the world is
built with colorful, beautifuldiversity, and that's in all
plants, animals, insects, youname it and that even includes
us.
We are allowed to be diverse inour thinking and our expression
of who we are, and I thinkthat's beautiful.
What I love about this is thatyou know your practice of
(30:05):
helping others and guiding them.
Is it just your name, meanbridge?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yes, it means stairway to heaven, so my name
is in reference is in referenceto Jacob's ladder, which is a
bridge between heaven and earth,yeah, so, and that's what I do,
right.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And you're at your.
You're actively doing it.
You are the embodiment and theexpression of that through the
work that you do.
I think that's incredibly cool.
Did you find that out when youwere younger?
Did you always know that wasyour expression?
Did your mom tell you that?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Well, I knew what my name meant when I was young.
Did your mom tell you that?
Well, I knew what my name meantwhen I was young, but it was
only recently, when I wasthinking about my name, I think
someone asked me what does yourname mean?
That I was able to make theconnection that.
Well, actually, what I'm doingis you know my name is the work
that I'm doing.
Yeah, so I made that connection.
I love it In the last sort ofcouple of years?
(30:57):
I think Not as a child.
It in the last sort of coupleyears?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think not, not as a child, but well in the last few
years there's so much I'd loveto jump into.
You know, we always talk aboutvulnerability because I think
it's a power, I think that's asuperpower.
Vulnerability, um, there's afew of these hope and resilience
and things like that.
But before we get into thosethings, um which we may have to
do in a number round two, if youwill, because I want to talk to
you further about some of theseget into the other things.
(31:20):
How can we find out more aboutyou?
If we want to hear more fromyou and what you're doing and we
want to either work with you,get you as a coach and things
like that, what can people?
Where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, so I do have a website and I would suggest that
you go to either two particularpages on my website.
So if you're wanting some freeresources, I've got different
PDF documents that help talkabout the different types of
losses and grief right, and Ishow that clearly on my website.
(31:56):
So if you go to griefsupportcoslash free resources, you'll see
a page of at least sixdifferent types of resources, so
one for before death, so healthloss, there's one for divorce
and then there's some for afterdeath grief as well.
I think I've got threedifferent ones for different
(32:18):
types of grief or different waysof coping with grief.
So do go to that website, thatwebpage.
I should say griefsupportcoslash freeresources.
All one word Download whateveryou want from there, as many as
you want from there.
But if you want to reach out tome, contact me.
I do offer a free 30-minuteconsultation call just to see
(32:42):
how I might be able to help you,to help for you to share what
you're struggling with, what youwant help with.
So that would be griefsupportcoslash contact and there's a
contact form you can fill in andthat will get an email to me
and I'll send you a calendarlink and we can then talk on the
on zoom if you want, or on thephone, and, uh, just see how I
(33:05):
can help you.
And but to pinpoint preciselywhere you're struggling, what
aspect of your life that you'restruggling with, uh, because I I
don't I'm not a typicaltherapist that will keep you in
therapy for years and years andyears.
I tend to work kind of shortterm to medium term, you know,
(33:25):
for as long as you want really,but I can get results, I'd say,
within two, three months,because I work with a lot of
clients with grief, and I'vebeen doing it for a long time
time, so I've learned to workquickly to help people find
relief from their pain.
So it so eight weeks to me isconsidered short, you know, by,
(33:46):
you know by therapy standards,um, to you know, six months
maybe.
If you need more you can alwaysextend that, but you know,
within sort of half a year I'llget you stabilized for sure and
help you find some meaning.
And you know, if you want to gooff and do your own kind of
internal work and then if youwant to come back to me later,
(34:06):
that's fine too.
So I'm quite flexible in theway that I work, but I want to
see you having some reliefbecause and quickly, because I
suffered for a long time throughmy own different types of grief
and it's not fun living in thatkind of living in that state of
grief.
So, and my first major grief waswhen I was in my 20s and I
(34:31):
didn't think I needed help, andso I suppressed it, and so I
don't want anyone to sufferunnecessarily.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
That's what I'm here for to help relieve that the
stress or the anxiety ofsomething that I'm dealing with.
You have a very soothing andcalming spirit and I thank you
for that.
So, ladies and gentlemen, ifyou want a stairway to healthy
you're living, to a healthymindset, you should get in touch
with San to check out hermaterial and her work.
(35:14):
We'll have her back on the showbecause we're going to in round
two or chapter two, whateveryou want to call it.
We're going to take a littledeeper dive into some of the
background that got sent to onthis journey.
Think where the intersection ofwhat she and I have both been
(35:42):
through brought us closertogether by sharing some of
those experiences and wanting tonavigate that and she's also,
by the way, going to beinterviewing me as well.
So you're going to get a littlemore deeper.
I'll be the one in the hot seat, so it's going to be more
interesting to find out whatthose little journeys and
hiccups along our road were.
And, yeah, hopefully this willhelp you with your thinking and
your everyday assessment andadapting to life.
(36:05):
You know, as entrepreneurs andmentors and leaders, you are
already inviting more challenges, more obstacles and more
opportunity to grow every singleday that you step out onto that
road, and getting support andhelp from individuals like Santu
is crucial to your mentalwell-being and your emotional
well-being.
So please have compassion withyourself.
(36:27):
Treat yourself to I don't knowa 30-minute call.
Get on that call.
Find out whether or not you'reblocking.
If you need to open up a littlebit, don't be nervous, it's all
good, we're here for it.
We're here for the health andthe happy.
So thank you, guys, for joiningus today on the Fearless Road
podcast, part one of ourinterview with Santu Carter.
More will come later as we takea deeper dive into her
(36:50):
background and her life.
So thank you, santu, forsharing yourself and your
journey with us today and reallyhelping us understand more
about grief, for sharingyourself and your journey with
us today and really helping usunderstand more about grief.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Thank you, and I hope it was helpful, even in just a
little way, for others.
And if I may say one more thing, just because you've touched on
it and I don't want to forgetit in the next episode, so I
want to say it now and you knowwe can repeat it later on as
well the word growth.
So I consider myself a growthleader because part of the grief
(37:21):
journey is to grow.
We do grow.
This is where my thinkingaround we expand, we grow, and
people might find it hard tobelieve that there can be growth
from loss and from grief, butthere absolutely can be.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yes, and that's why I think we don't give ourselves
that, I don't think we allowourselves to see that when we
notice it in other things innature, we don't let ourselves
have that.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah.
And that does require kind ofsometimes just sitting in
silence meditation, if you wantto call it that or just sitting
and pondering all that we'veaccomplished, because if you've
had a devastating loss, it couldbe challenging just to get out
of bed, just to be able to cooka meal.
(38:09):
Everything shuts down so everylittle thing can be considered
an accomplishment and thoselittle accomplishments will
suddenly become like a bloomingflower and you think, oh wow, I
have accomplished a lot.
And then there's the wholelegacy work, the legacy that you
can create for your loved one.
That's a whole big project initself.
(38:30):
That's very growthful andexpanding.
So there can be a lot of growthfrom grief and you know, I help
people understand that torecognize it, to market it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Well, that's chapter two yes.
Grief and growth.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'regoing to get into it on the next
one.
As we look a little bit furtherunder the hood of what this
experience is for us and why weapproach it and the way that we
do, I think it's important forus to understand that there's
reasons why we approach griefand loss and growth the ways
(39:01):
that we do, and by having abetter understanding of that,
perhaps we can grow into betterhumans and be there for others,
especially when it's time to becompassionate.
So thank you very much, santu,for your time today.
We'll have you back again sothat we can touch on grief and
growth.
Thanks everybody, have awonderful day and we'll see you
(39:22):
at the next episode.
Bye, thank you, mike.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Thank you, Michael, thank you.
Hey there, everybody, and welcome to the Fearless
Road podcast, where we exploreentrepreneurial insights,
stories and advice on embracingfear, breaking boundaries and
achieving goals on the road tosuccess.
I'm your host, michael DeVue,and after years of overcoming
obstacles and tragedy, I beganto wonder how does someone
become fearless?
(00:24):
Well, that's exactly what we'regoing to find out.
In every episode, we dive intothe lives of individuals who've
learned to turn fear into fuel,face some incredible challenges
and cultivate a fearless mindsetwhile navigating their fearless
road.
So join me for in-depthinterviews with some amazing
people where we investigate moredeeply the valleys on their
(00:45):
road to success, because thevalleys are where character is
built, foundations are laid andwhere the fearless are born.
Welcome to the Fearless RoadPodcast.
(01:07):
So, hey, ladies and gentlemen,welcome back to the Fearless
Road Podcast.
I'm your host, michael DeVue,and you know it's been a little
bit of.
We've had a bit of a summerbreak, which is fine Everybody
deserves some time off, right,and we've got a special
(01:28):
interview today that has been inthe works for quite a while Now
.
She and I have known each otherfor some time, have been trying
to get together to make thishappen for you, really just sort
of exploring the avenues andthe ways we wanted to share our
experiences, both together andindividually.
Very fascinating backgrounds,very interesting crossroads of
experiences that I think couldhave a great impact and be
interesting for you, thelisteners.
(01:49):
So, without further ado, themulti-award-winning therapist,
as well as internationalbest-selling author,
professional speaker, coach andtrainer, she supports families
and community groups and hasbeen a professional for over 25
years, through many of life'schallenges of loss, health
diagnosis such as cancer afterdeath, grief and spiritual
(02:11):
crisis across many of life'sstages.
Please welcome Sansu Carter.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thank you very much, Michael.
Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You're welcome.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm good, I'm all right.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, are you ready?
Are you ready to get into someof the interesting questions?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I am.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, so when you and I were talking last time and,
by the way, you probably knowthis about me my family had gone
through a fire or whatever, andI was learning more about
Santu's grief counseling and shewas speaking to me and
supporting me in that endeavor.
Now, on the Fearless Road, wetalk about fear, at the
intersection of fear andinnovation.
(02:51):
As entrepreneurs, fear is oneof those areas that we are
constantly being faced with,because we're asking for all
kinds of challenges that comeour way by stepping into these
new versions of ourselves, right, that come our way by stepping
into these new versions ofourselves, right, and some of us
, most of us need help.
We need someone to talk to, weneed someone to support us and
(03:13):
someone who specializes in griefcounseling, as well as stress,
stress, stress, anxiety, dealingwith all of those different
things.
The way that we deal with it inour heads, emotionally,
psychologically, can be a realadvantage to ensuring that your
mental well-being is front andcenter for you on your journey
to success, because if you getthere and you're unhappy and
(03:36):
you're miserable, it's not worththe ride, right?
Right absolutely.
So you have the STEER method,S-T-E-E-R STEER method, which is
a very sort of unique holisticapproach for mental and
emotional well-being,specializing in fear and anxiety
(03:56):
and trauma.
So can you tell me, share withus a little bit about what the
STEER method is, and that'ssomething you came up with, Is
that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It is.
It is Because I think loss andgrief impacts us holistically.
It doesn't just impact ouremotions, but impacts us in so
many ways.
It impacts us physically aswell, which people don't realize
.
You can feel very heavy.
You could want to just be inbed all day.
You don't have an appetite.
(04:23):
It shuts down your brain in asense and shuts down your
appetite.
So it affects people in many,many ways, and so I was
considering how to help peopleholistically and that's how I
came up with my STEER approach.
So the S stands for spiritualityand religion.
So that's an important partbecause people will often wonder
(04:46):
either you know, if a cancerpatient is dying and I've worked
with them in the hospitalsetting they will often ask me
like what's going to happen tome, you know, after I die?
So the whole kind of aspect ofthe soul and spirituality and
what happens after one dies is abig question before and after
(05:08):
death.
So that's the S.
The S is for spirituality andreligion.
The T is for tools andtechniques to help people cope.
The E one of the E's, the firstE, is education.
So I use the psychoeducationalapproach to help people
understand what they're goingthrough, because that can really
(05:29):
help them figure out strategiesof how to do things differently
.
That's going to help them.
The other E, of course, islooking at their emotions and
how to process their emotions,how to release their emotions
within the session.
And how to process theiremotions, how to release their
emotions within the session.
That's really important becausesometimes, particularly men
don't feel able to cry in public.
(05:50):
For example, women sometimesdon't feel able to cry in public
or at work, so they'll run intothe bathroom or even at home
you might have a family membersaying why are you still crying,
right, can't you stop crying?
You know that kind of thing.
So, so at least I provide asafe, supportive space where
they can really release anyemotion, including anger and
(06:11):
rage, if that's the emotion thatthey have and need to process
that through.
So that's the second E and thenthe.
The R is relationships.
So obviously, relationships areimpacted when you're in grief,
um, and the relationships I workwith could be, uh, in the
family units.
(06:31):
You know the fam, you know the,the, the married family unit.
It could be the family oforigin, so, like your, your
parents, your siblings, and itcould be extended family as well
.
So learning how to manage, oh,and friends and colleagues, of
course as well, because some ofus spend a lot of time at work
and we need to learn how to askfor support from managers and
(06:54):
work colleagues if we'regrieving um, and and from family
members, because they will allhave a different approach,
because we all have a differentrelationship with the person who
has died right.
So an aunt is not going tounderstand the intensity of your
grief for, say, a mother or afather that you are really close
(07:16):
to, so they're not going tohave the same way of relating to
you or communicating with youway of relating to you or
communicating with you.
So you will get many differentresponses from family members
and it can be a challengelearning how to communicate
effectively to communicate yourneeds.
And there's one, michael,there's one more thing, I want
(07:37):
to say that sometimes that lackof ability to communicate
effectively can cause conflict.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And it can cause family estrangement as well.
So deaths don't always bringfamilies closer together.
Sometimes it breaks them apart,and that's a really important
point to make.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
If you know what I'm saying or have experienced yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, yes, because it's interesting that you're
talking about perspectives.
There's a couple of things thatcame to mind, because we talk a
lot about the entrepreneurialjourney.
When we deal with our strainsand stresses whether that's
grief or whether that's just astrain or stress based on a new
(08:23):
endeavor, launching a product,business, what have you?
What occurred to me was thecoping skills and mechanisms
that we currently use when we'refacing the public world are not
the same as the ones when we'rein grief.
(08:43):
It's fascinating to me because Ihad some recent loss, which
you're aware of, dear family andfriend, as well as a few other
things, and when I'm in griefmode, my autonomic system, my
automatic system to protect meand deal with grief, begins
before I even know I'm in thatstate.
(09:08):
So it's automatically, you know,filtering and doing things to
keep me functioning in aspecific way for everybody else,
right that I've set up theserelationships.
People have expectations, Ineed to deliver, and it doesn't
occur to me until I break, untilI've had my emotional breakdown
, that I haven't been caring formyself because I've put these
(09:31):
automated systems that we use tocope.
Just start going a conversationwith somebody who doesn't
understand you, you can'tcommunicate because you're in
grief mode and the temporaryfunctions that your body uses to
cope, that your mind uses tocope, that your heart uses to
(09:53):
cope have run out and you'rejust left with you.
And if that person doesn'tunderstand where you're coming
from, if we lack theperspectives and the
understanding and the compassionto know when a person's hitting
that particular wall, I can seeeasily how everyone can get
their feelings hurt reallyquickly.
(10:13):
People can be separated and notcome together, you know, to
heal.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, and people don't often know how to have
those reparative conversationsin order to heal the
relationship.
And there's something that yousaid um, when you're talking
about your, your I don't know ifyou were meaning your defenses
come up or when you're talkingabout your autonomic reactions
(10:45):
that happen, I was thinkingabout fear.
So if you were meaning thatsomehow my defenses come up or I
go into a kind of mode ofsurvival mode, in a sense, it's
stemming from fear.
So you're trying to protectyourself from the other threats
in your life because, in a sense, the death that you've
(11:08):
experienced you know, if you'vehad a parent die or even a
spouse die or anyone reallythat's significant to you.
That is a threat, because youare now thinking how am I going
to cope, how am I going tosurvive?
Right, and then you see theother people who are still
living it, but in your world, apotential threat as well,
especially if they don'tunderstand or offer empathy or
(11:30):
compassion.
It is a kind of threat.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I think I was thinking of the wound side of it
.
It is, you know, when you'vegot a visible wound, you know
your coping mechanisms on how todeal with dress tend to the
wound when it's an emotionaldamage that you can't see,
especially the loss of a lovedone, right.
That process of themdisappearing from the world is
(11:57):
so difficult and so differentevery single time and it's very
hard for the brain to wrap itsbrain around its mind around
where they went, and each persondeals with that sort of like
where did they go?
Thinking very differently.
And it is a wound because thatgrief is painful.
But when we don't address itopenly, honestly, if we're not
(12:20):
aware of it, what I'm talkingabout, the automatic system of
protection starts protecting thewound from, as you say, those
threats, perceived threats orotherwise, because it doesn't
know anything else, it doesn'tknow how to deal with it.
So it just starts putting upwalls, it starts protecting you
and creating distance, anynumber of different mechanisms.
If we're not familiar with ourown coping skills or the lack
(12:42):
thereof, we could wind up in asituation, two, three, four
weeks down the road, whereyou're in the middle of a public
event or something and you'rejust falling apart and you can't
explain it and nobody knowswhat's going on, except you.
You know, I found myself in aparticular situation that a very
dear person of mine was hostingan event and I had had a little
(13:06):
too much to drink at that time,but I just broke down.
It hit me like a ton of bricksin the middle of this thing and
nobody were like, oh, what'swrong with him?
And it just started pouring out.
I just started releasing andreleasing and before I knew it I
(13:27):
was like what just happened andI wasn't even cognizant at the
time.
I was in a time-space continuumwhere my emotions were just
live, but the rest of me wasparked somewhere else, safe and
sound, away from the spilling ofemotions.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So you know that it's weird and fascinating to me,
but it's also yeah, and it'skind of like, um, a boy or a
buoy, I'm not quite sure how topronounce it, but it's or even
if you take like a big rubberball and you put it, try and
sink it under the water,eventually, as you keep pushing
(14:10):
it down and pushing it down,trying to ignore it, you know
say the ball is grief and youkeep ignoring, you push it down,
push down.
Eventually it will snap out ofyour hands and go whoosh, right
out of the water and that's andthat's the spillage of the
emotions coming up right so yeah, that's why
it's so important to processyour, your emotions, on a
regular basis with someone,rather than trying to push it
(14:32):
down, letting it out a littlebit and then trying to push it
down again to function andrelease it just a little bit.
Like, really give yourselfenough space and time on a
regular basis to really process,because there's a lot of
emotions that will come up, butthere's a lot of meaning to
process as well, and when youcan't process either of those
(14:55):
the emotions or the meaning itcan really leave you confused,
devastated, angry, like it justcreates a whirlwind uh, you know
of chaos.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
And now makes sense to me why certain things are
harder to understand, that I'mnot communicating very well or
I'm not understanding things andit's like my brain is just not
operating and functioning andI'm like what's wrong with me?
Allow ourselves to have,because we just expect us to get
(15:32):
back up and get moving, youknow, because the world needs us
, or you know, or we just, wesimply just lack, like you know,
the skills and the perspectivesand the tools to deal with this
kind of break in our body, inour minds and in our hearts.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, and you've said something really important
there self-compassion.
I mean that is one of the keylearnings I try and help my
clients understand, becauseyou're probably not going to get
the level of compassion thatyou need from others.
You could, and if you do,consider yourself very blessed
(16:16):
and very lucky, because most ofthe time people don't know how
to offer you the compassion thatyou need because they don't
know how long you're going to begrieving.
And sometimes you could be kindof, you know, progressing on
your grief journey, and thenyou'll have a relapse.
People won't know it becauseyou'll try and hide it.
So learning how to offeryourself that self-compassion is
really really key, really key.
(16:38):
Learning to be gentle withyourself.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I've dedicated yes, learning to be gentle with
yourself.
My mother God rest her soul wasone of the most compassionate,
loving individuals who used tojust do that for me.
I could be in the comfort ofher presence and feel that from
her.
Finding that that tether againto this world um is.
(17:02):
It is a long journey.
It's hard to ever find thatkind of love again.
Um, you know, mother's love isvery different.
It's very rare and when thatperson's no longer here it does
feel like this sort of large gapthat you're always wondering if
it's ever going to get filled.
She made me feel, but it is upto me to find resources,
(17:22):
relationships, support, Isuppose in some way that helps
me navigate those leftoverfeelings, adapt to the new world
(17:44):
without that tether.
I always used to say and Inever knew this, I didn't know
that I was tethered to thisplanet by my mother until she
was gone and I felt the physicaldisconnection from this earth,
from the person who brought mehere, and it was a very painful,
weird sensation of feelingunmoored and just like a ship at
(18:11):
sea just lost.
You know, I finally found mybearings and got myself both
some help but also some journalwriting or whatever.
To get back to some sense ofbalance for myself, but I think
it's important for us asentrepreneurs and business
leaders and executives.
And you know, if you'restarting a business, there are
(18:34):
two major parts of your life.
There's your business thatyou're running and then your
private life, and when somethingimpacts you enough that it
brings all of it to a stop, it'sreally important to know where
those tethers are, theindividuals in your life that
you can.
You can trust to be like helpme walk this walk, because it's
(18:57):
going to be hard and I need help, and I think a lot of us have a
hard time asking for that.
We don't want to lean too heavyon people.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
We feel like we're a burden if we do yeah, because
certainly in the Western culturewe're trained to be individuals
, you know, to be self-reliant.
So, yeah, that's huge to kindof fight and resist.
But there's a tip I want togive you, michael.
From what I heard you saying,it might be helpful.
(19:27):
You may have thought of thisalready, may have thought of
this already when your motherleft and when we experience some
major loss within our families,whether we realize it or not,
we have to develop a newidentity.
And I don't know if you've donethe work or have considered
(19:51):
this, but when you were sayingthat, you felt untethered, part
of your grief journey will be toabsorb some of your mother's
characteristics into youridentity so you can self-soothe
like your mother used to sootheyou and also, kind of, you know,
out of the two comes a greateryou know sum of all the parts
(20:13):
right.
So you're creating almost likea new identity, a new you that's
somewhat different butincorporates some aspects and
characteristics of your mother.
So I don't know if you've kindof explored that aspect of your
grief journey in relation toyour mother or not, but just
something for you to think about.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
It's interesting that you reference it that way.
Almost all the other tragediesthat I've dealt with in my life,
I reinvented myself in order toadjust to that situation and it
became a skill set that Ididn't.
I really was not aware that Iwas doing it.
I just was naturallyreinventing myself in order to
(20:51):
come out the other side.
And what's fascinating to meabout that is, you know, one of
the things I say is that youknow, I was so adamant to never
let fear impact my life anddefine who I was.
That fear ultimately impactedmy life and defined who I was.
So it's like you can't help butbe changed by life changing
(21:12):
events.
It's, it's, it's.
I love that you put this upfront, because entrepreneurs,
business leaders, executives,mentors we learn to adapt to so
many different things, but Idon't think we realize I think a
lot of people don't realizewhen something happens tragic,
difficult, challenging, youdon't come out.
Something happens tragic,difficult, challenging, you
(21:33):
don't come out.
The other side the same.
You must be aware that you'reshifting and adapting, because
all humans do.
We're built to do it.
We are built to adapt and learn.
That's what our bodies do.
Millions and millions of cellsevery second do it naturally and
we as humans also becomesomething other than what we
(21:54):
were before.
Right, and I don't know that wesometimes we don't give
ourselves that recognition inthat time to say, hey, a new me
is ready or I need to step intoa new version of myself.
Who else is going to welcome meinto this new world, right,
when the individual that youused to do that is no longer
(22:16):
with us and that space is gone,that energy is gone, the person
that took up that space in yourlife is no longer there.
You have to fill that spacewith something meaningful for
yourself and redefine thatattachment, or the detachment,
if you will, as something newfor yourself.
I love that you said thank youfor allowing me to see it
differently this way, because ithelps me understand some of the
(22:39):
ways that I process my owngrief.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And there's something else I want to add for your
listeners who may not like theword change.
Lots of people don't like theword change and they may not
like the word new either.
So they might be thinking but Idon't want a new identity.
I like the old me, with theperson that I love beside me.
I don't want to change and Idon't want to be new.
I don't want to create a newidentity.
So I'm going to I'm going toadd a different word for those
(23:08):
that may not like the word newor new identity I'm going to use
the word expanded.
So as people grieve, they havean expanded understanding and an
expanded awareness.
And what I was suggesting aboutyou incorporating your mom is
you kind of expanding to be ableto include her and bring her in
(23:31):
, and when there's two of youliving in your body, you're
expanded.
You have to make room.
You're expanding.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Along with all the other personalities that are in
here.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, so that's.
I'm not going to agree withthat.
That's up for you to decide.
But that's another way oflooking at it.
The grief can expand us and oneof the things that if we learn
to offer ourselvesself-compassion, we can then
expand our understanding ofcompassion in general and we can
(24:06):
then offer other peoplecompassion if they're in grief.
So the work work really isabout expansion, and expansion
of perspective and awareness.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, that is.
I mean, that's the journeywe're on.
I mean we're always expandingand if we understand that
through every experience wegather more information, not
only about ourselves but theworld around us, we take that
information, we use it to adaptand adopt to the world that we
want, right, the world that wechoose.
Some of us put it out there tomake things happen and some of
(24:39):
us put it internally to use as alens to look at the world and
view the world through.
Speaking of that, which I thinkis a nice segue of going into
navigating the journey, as wewere saying about cultural
sensitivity, talking about notonly the spiritual beliefs which
you mentioned earlier with theS in STEER, which is spiritual
(25:05):
and religious.
There's so many differentviewpoints on this people who
approach the world, whether it'sthrough a spiritual
understanding of their own God,of their own choosing, or
whether it's something else.
How do you do that?
How do you handle addressingthe multitude of different
(25:26):
perspectives and experiences?
As a grief counselor, what doesthat look like for you?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Well, first I want to say, and help people understand
, that culture is very much tiedto religion, or rather the
other way around Religion istied to culture and religion can
be expressed differently, likelike, for example, the Orthodox
church.
You've got the Greek Orthodox,the Russian Orthodox, the
Ethiopian Orthodox, the ArmenianOrthodox, and they all kind of
(25:55):
express themselves differentlybased on the culture that
they're in right, yes, religionand culture are very much tied
together.
How do I deal with thedifferent religious perspectives
(26:17):
and views and traditions?
I personally went on anexploratory journey of all the
different major denominations,really of Christianity in
particular, but I also, when Iwas studying for my Master's of
Divinity, I also got reallyinterested in actually even
(26:42):
before then, I got interested inother world religions as well
and studied world religions inuniversity and receptive to all
different religions, becauseyou're dealing with patients
with no discrimination, so anypatient- of any faith or
tradition or spiritual or faithtradition could call upon you to
be there for them and to bethere in the way that they need
(27:04):
or in the best way that you canoffer your service.
So I've always been open-mindedaround religion and I've always,
always had a fascinated.
I had a fascination and havealways studied it.
So to me it doesn't faze me ifsomeone from a different
tradition comes to me and youknow, and I just get them to
explore what's meaningful foryou.
And let me tell you likeindividuals practice their faith
(27:29):
and traditions in such a littledifferent ways than other
people.
So there's never one cookiecutter way of doing things, like
no human, no person will everdo faith in exactly the same way
as someone else.
So really the question is likewhat's meaningful for you around
(27:53):
what you're saying about yourfaith, around your spirituality
and I understand the wordspirituality in a very broad way
.
To me, spirituality is aroundrelationships and what gives you
strength.
Exercise with some nurses in ahospital and I asked them to
(28:14):
stand by different pictures ofwhat spirituality meant for them
and some of them stood by pets.
For some people, pets they're,they're, they're dogs or cats is
their form of spiritualconnection.
Some people went stood bynature, some people went by
family, some people went stoodnear, like a religious
institution, symbols and images.
So different people willexplore spirituality and faith
(28:39):
in different ways and I'm hereto then guide them, you know, to
explore it further, to exploreit in a way they may not have
been able to in an institution.
They may not have been able tokind of openly say what they're
thinking, criticize, deconstructand then reconstruct their
theology or their faith.
(28:59):
So I help them explore all thatI love deconstructing religion
and faith and traditions and getthem to reconstruct it in a way
that's going to be meaningfulfor them and a way that's
effective and useful for them,because it has to be useful for
you personally.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, it's interesting because, yes, well,
and first of all, I love the.
I just love that every humanexperiences life and expresses
it differently, from alldifferent angles, whether that's
a spiritual angle or not,really would love us to remember
that when we're dealing withthe diversity and the
divisiveness of today's thinking, where others would have us be
(29:44):
separated, I think what we needto remember is that the world is
built with colorful, beautifuldiversity, and that's in all
plants, animals, insects, youname it and that even includes
us.
We are allowed to be diverse inour thinking and our expression
of who we are, and I thinkthat's beautiful.
What I love about this is thatyou know your practice of
(30:05):
helping others and guiding them.
Is it just your name, meanbridge?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yes, it means stairway to heaven, so my name
is in reference is in referenceto Jacob's ladder, which is a
bridge between heaven and earth,yeah, so, and that's what I do,
right.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And you're at your.
You're actively doing it.
You are the embodiment and theexpression of that through the
work that you do.
I think that's incredibly cool.
Did you find that out when youwere younger?
Did you always know that wasyour expression?
Did your mom tell you that?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Well, I knew what my name meant when I was young.
Did your mom tell you that?
Well, I knew what my name meantwhen I was young, but it was
only recently, when I wasthinking about my name, I think
someone asked me what does yourname mean?
That I was able to make theconnection that.
Well, actually, what I'm doingis you know my name is the work
that I'm doing.
Yeah, so I made that connection.
I love it In the last sort ofcouple of years?
(30:57):
I think Not as a child.
It in the last sort of coupleyears?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think not, not as a child, but well in the last few
years there's so much I'd loveto jump into.
You know, we always talk aboutvulnerability because I think
it's a power, I think that's asuperpower.
Vulnerability, um, there's afew of these hope and resilience
and things like that.
But before we get into thosethings, um which we may have to
do in a number round two, if youwill, because I want to talk to
you further about some of theseget into the other things.
(31:20):
How can we find out more aboutyou?
If we want to hear more fromyou and what you're doing and we
want to either work with you,get you as a coach and things
like that, what can people?
Where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, so I do have a website and I would suggest that
you go to either two particularpages on my website.
So if you're wanting some freeresources, I've got different
PDF documents that help talkabout the different types of
losses and grief right, and Ishow that clearly on my website.
(31:56):
So if you go to griefsupportcoslash free resources, you'll see
a page of at least sixdifferent types of resources, so
one for before death, so healthloss, there's one for divorce
and then there's some for afterdeath grief as well.
I think I've got threedifferent ones for different
(32:18):
types of grief or different waysof coping with grief.
So do go to that website, thatwebpage.
I should say griefsupportcoslash freeresources.
All one word Download whateveryou want from there, as many as
you want from there.
But if you want to reach out tome, contact me.
I do offer a free 30-minuteconsultation call just to see
(32:42):
how I might be able to help you,to help for you to share what
you're struggling with, what youwant help with.
So that would be griefsupportcoslash contact and there's a
contact form you can fill in andthat will get an email to me
and I'll send you a calendarlink and we can then talk on the
on zoom if you want, or on thephone, and, uh, just see how I
(33:05):
can help you.
And but to pinpoint preciselywhere you're struggling, what
aspect of your life that you'restruggling with, uh, because I I
don't I'm not a typicaltherapist that will keep you in
therapy for years and years andyears.
I tend to work kind of shortterm to medium term, you know,
(33:25):
for as long as you want really,but I can get results, I'd say,
within two, three months,because I work with a lot of
clients with grief, and I'vebeen doing it for a long time
time, so I've learned to workquickly to help people find
relief from their pain.
So it so eight weeks to me isconsidered short, you know, by,
(33:46):
you know by therapy standards,um, to you know, six months
maybe.
If you need more you can alwaysextend that, but you know,
within sort of half a year I'llget you stabilized for sure and
help you find some meaning.
And you know, if you want to gooff and do your own kind of
internal work and then if youwant to come back to me later,
(34:06):
that's fine too.
So I'm quite flexible in theway that I work, but I want to
see you having some reliefbecause and quickly, because I
suffered for a long time throughmy own different types of grief
and it's not fun living in thatkind of living in that state of
grief.
So, and my first major grief waswhen I was in my 20s and I
(34:31):
didn't think I needed help, andso I suppressed it, and so I
don't want anyone to sufferunnecessarily.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
That's what I'm here for to help relieve that the
stress or the anxiety ofsomething that I'm dealing with.
You have a very soothing andcalming spirit and I thank you
for that.
So, ladies and gentlemen, ifyou want a stairway to healthy
you're living, to a healthymindset, you should get in touch
with San to check out hermaterial and her work.
(35:14):
We'll have her back on the showbecause we're going to in round
two or chapter two, whateveryou want to call it.
We're going to take a littledeeper dive into some of the
background that got sent to onthis journey.
Think where the intersection ofwhat she and I have both been
(35:42):
through brought us closertogether by sharing some of
those experiences and wanting tonavigate that and she's also,
by the way, going to beinterviewing me as well.
So you're going to get a littlemore deeper.
I'll be the one in the hot seat, so it's going to be more
interesting to find out whatthose little journeys and
hiccups along our road were.
And, yeah, hopefully this willhelp you with your thinking and
your everyday assessment andadapting to life.
(36:05):
You know, as entrepreneurs andmentors and leaders, you are
already inviting more challenges, more obstacles and more
opportunity to grow every singleday that you step out onto that
road, and getting support andhelp from individuals like Santu
is crucial to your mentalwell-being and your emotional
well-being.
So please have compassion withyourself.
(36:27):
Treat yourself to I don't knowa 30-minute call.
Get on that call.
Find out whether or not you'reblocking.
If you need to open up a littlebit, don't be nervous, it's all
good, we're here for it.
We're here for the health andthe happy.
So thank you, guys, for joiningus today on the Fearless Road
podcast, part one of ourinterview with Santu Carter.
More will come later as we takea deeper dive into her
(36:50):
background and her life.
So thank you, santu, forsharing yourself and your
journey with us today and reallyhelping us understand more
about grief, for sharingyourself and your journey with
us today and really helping usunderstand more about grief.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Thank you, and I hope it was helpful, even in just a
little way, for others.
And if I may say one more thing, just because you've touched on
it and I don't want to forgetit in the next episode, so I
want to say it now and you knowwe can repeat it later on as
well the word growth.
So I consider myself a growthleader because part of the grief
(37:21):
journey is to grow.
We do grow.
This is where my thinkingaround we expand, we grow, and
people might find it hard tobelieve that there can be growth
from loss and from grief, butthere absolutely can be.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yes, and that's why I think we don't give ourselves
that, I don't think we allowourselves to see that when we
notice it in other things innature, we don't let ourselves
have that.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah.
And that does require kind ofsometimes just sitting in
silence meditation, if you wantto call it that or just sitting
and pondering all that we'veaccomplished, because if you've
had a devastating loss, it couldbe challenging just to get out
of bed, just to be able to cooka meal.
(38:09):
Everything shuts down so everylittle thing can be considered
an accomplishment and thoselittle accomplishments will
suddenly become like a bloomingflower and you think, oh wow, I
have accomplished a lot.
And then there's the wholelegacy work, the legacy that you
can create for your loved one.
That's a whole big project initself.
(38:30):
That's very growthful andexpanding.
So there can be a lot of growthfrom grief and you know, I help
people understand that torecognize it, to market it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Well, that's chapter two yes.
Grief and growth.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'regoing to get into it on the next
one.
As we look a little bit furtherunder the hood of what this
experience is for us and why weapproach it and the way that we
do, I think it's important forus to understand that there's
reasons why we approach griefand loss and growth the ways
(39:01):
that we do, and by having abetter understanding of that,
perhaps we can grow into betterhumans and be there for others,
especially when it's time to becompassionate.
So thank you very much, santu,for your time today.
We'll have you back again sothat we can touch on grief and
growth.
Thanks everybody, have awonderful day and we'll see you
(39:22):
at the next episode.
Bye, thank you, mike.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Thank you, Michael, thank you.
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