14. From the US to Italy: A Fearless Leap with Catrin Skaperdas of Italian, For Sure

In this episode of The Fearless Road, host Michael Devous sits down with Catrin Skaperdas, a young podcaster and marketer who has moved to Italy and started her own podcast called "Italian, For Sure". They explore Catrin's journey of self-discovery, her experiences with travel and living abroad, and her insights on finding one's path in life. The conversation delves into topics such as overcoming fear, embracing new perspectives, and the challenges of starting a podcast in a foreign country.

Major Takeaways:

• Life paths are not fixed and can change throughout one's lifetime
• Traveling and experiencing different cultures can broaden one's perspective and open up new possibilities
• Overcoming fear and stepping out of one's comfort zone is crucial for personal growth
• Starting a new venture, like a podcast, doesn't require perfection - it's more important to begin and improve along the way
• Understanding that different people have different priorities and definitions of success can help in finding one's own path

Key Highlights:

[5:52] - Catrin discusses her view on life paths and how they are formed by daily decisions and experiences
[7:55] - Catrin shares how traveling impacted her worldview and opened her mind to new possibilities
[20:54] - Discussion on overcoming fears when moving to a new country and starting a new life
[26:35] - Catrin talks about her experience with imposter syndrome and how she overcame it
[40:26] - Insights into starting a podcast and the importance of "just starting" even if things aren't perfect

Best Quotes:

"For me, your path is just a combination of all of the decisions that you make throughout your life, all the information that you have received throughout your life that has allowed you to make those decisions." - Catrin Skaperdas

"Everything is made up. It's all a construct of your experiences, of what you have been exposed to." - Catrin Skaperdas

"You can adjust as you go down the fearless road. It's not fixed." - Catrin Skaperdas

Action Items or Steps:

1. Reflect on your current life path and consider if it aligns with your true desires and values
2. Seek out new experiences and perspectives, whether through travel or engaging with diverse communities
3. When starting a new venture, focus on taking action rather than striving for perfection
4. Build a strong support system to help overcome self-doubt and imposter syndrome
5. Regularly reassess your goals and be open to adjusting your path as you grow and change

References:

• Italian, For Sure podcast: https://italianforsure.com
• QC Spa of Wonders in New York (mentioned as an example of Italian business expanding to the US) (https://www.qcny.com/en) 
• "How I Built This" podcast with Guy Raz (mentioned as an inspirational resource for entrepreneurs) (https://www.npr.org/series/490248027/how-i-built-this) 

Additional Insights:

• The importance of understanding cultural differences when moving to a new country
• The value of creating content that bridges cultural gaps and provides authentic insights
• The role of podcasting in sharing diverse perspectives and experiences
• The challenge of balancing one's career aspirations with the desire for personal growth and exploration

Additional Links

• Italian, For Sure Podcast: 
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/10R9fg4Fi7oS3N1rNUzoZY?si=4af8f561729347fb 
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1737711228?mt=2&ls=1
• Italian, For Sure Website: ItalianForSure.com
• Italian, For Sure YouTube Channel:

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey there, everybody, and welcome to the Fearless
Road podcast, where we exploreentrepreneurial insights,
stories and advice on embracingfear, breaking boundaries and
achieving goals on the road tosuccess.
I'm your host, michael DeVue,and after years of overcoming
obstacles and tragedy, I beganto wonder how does someone
become fearless?

(00:24):
Well, that's exactly what we'regoing to find out.
So join me for in-depthinterviews with some amazing
people where we investigate moredeeply the valleys on their
road to success, because thevalleys are where character is
built, foundations are laid andwhere the fearless are born.
Welcome to the Fearless RoadPodcast.
Hey, ladies and gentlemen,welcome back to the Fearless

(00:58):
Road Podcast.
I'm your host, michael DeVue,and this podcast, this episode,
I was going to say this monthbecause what's happening
recently, by the way, I don'tknow if you realize.
The Fearless Road podcast, wedeep dive, we deep dive.
We dive deep into longer, morepersonal interviews, one-on-ones

(01:18):
, and because it's so long, Isplit them up into mini-sodes to
share with the public andeverything.
So I usually span that out overa month.
And while I've been waiting forthe opportunity, I haven't had
a good youth on this show yetand I've been very excited
because I had spoken to thisyoung lady last fall about her

(01:40):
journey and what she was doing.
And she was doing someincredible things in Europe
already in the field ofmarketing and podcasting, and I
was so impressed with what shewas doing.
And she was doing someincredible things in Europe
already in the field ofmarketing and podcasting, and I
was so impressed with what shewas doing I really wanted to get
a chance to bring her on hereso that you guys could hear a
fresh perspective and adifferent journey, a very
fascinating one that I thinkmight resonate with you,

(02:00):
especially if you love traveland if you love Italy for sure.
So on today's episode we havethe incredible Katrin Skopertis,
a podcaster, marketer brilliantmarketer, by the way, she
doesn't give herself enoughcredit for this and host of the
new show Italian for Sure, apodcast out of Italy that takes

(02:23):
us inside the Italian culture intheir mind and some of the
really unique things that theylove to talk about and to do
that we don't normally get tosee on all those overly produced
shows which, by the way, Iwatch and I'm a sucker for.
So let's welcome Katrin to theFearless Rogue podcast.
Hi, katrin.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Hi Michael, Thank you so much for having me on and
thank you for that amazingintroduction.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Of course You've fascinated me since, of course,
the first time we connected forthe Maria Faya interview that
was last, I think we recordedlast fall and I was so
fascinated with your energy,your spirit, what you were doing
.
In fact, I think it was becausea small part of me was envious
and jealous of what you weredoing at your age.

(03:11):
My ambitions grew over time.
I thought I was ambitious whenI was in my 20s.
I wasn't, but I did have a lotof dreams about seeing the world
and it just never seemed to beone of those barriers for me.
I always thought, well, why not?
And I didn't have a sense offear or trepidation about travel

(03:34):
at all, whereas some of myfamily and other people that I
knew needed a lot of comfortblankets, a lot of safety
blankets, before they made thosekind of needed a lot of comfort
blankets, a lot of safetyblankets, before they made those
kind of journeys on their own.
And I'm going to start out withthe first question, which is not
the one we talked about, by theway, because you say this word
path.

(03:54):
You mentioned the word path.
It comes up a lot in your notesand your conversations.
You've been focused from a veryearly age on a on a good path,
a correct path, a right path, um, not not because it's a
structured thing, uh, but morebecause it's a journey and and a

(04:15):
discovery thing for you, that Ifelt like that really resonated
.
What is path?
Developing a path, you know,finding the right path for you
look like and what does thatmean to you?

Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's a great question For me.
Your path can change throughoutlife.
So when I say path, I by nomeans mean that there's one way
of being, that there's one pathfor everybody, and if you miss
that bus and you miss getting onthe path that there's no way

(04:48):
back onto it.
We're forming our path everyday, every decision we make.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
The road, the fearless road.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
The fearless road exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
It's a winding path.
It's not direct right.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Exactly, and that's what it is.
That's the path for me.
I guess, when I talk about pathin my life as a path For me,
your path is just a combinationof all of the decisions that you
make throughout your life, allthe information that you have
received throughout your lifethat has allowed you to make
those decisions, and it's acombination of a one foot in

(05:23):
front of the other approach.
So taking everything day by day,but then also having some sort
of general direction for whereyou want that path to go in the
end, and wanting to make surethat my path it just gives me

(05:47):
the most out of this life that Ican possibly get out of it.
And that could mean a lot ofdifferent things for me.
But I probably talk about pathin that way often because I'm
always thinking about how can Imake sure that, hopefully, when
I get to the year 100, I lookback at my path and I'm really
happy with it.
I'm happy for the way that itled me, the road that I took,
the fearless path, and I'mreally happy with it.
I'm happy for the way that itled me, the road that I took,
the fearless road that I took.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I love that you say 100.
When I was your age, looking at40 was like the longest that I
couldn't see past 40, let alonelooking at 100.
You know, now I'm like 54 andI'm like God I wish I don't even
want to be.
I don't think I want to be 100.
I'm tired already.
I don't think I could get there.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
I wonder if it's because I saw my grandfather
live till 103 that it's like arealistic number in my mind.
But I, it's like I said, it'sthis combination, this back and
forth, back and forth of thisevery day, taking every day as
it comes, so living really inthe present, but then also

(06:50):
knowing that what, if, what if Ilived to be 100, making sure
I'm really happy with my life iswhen I look back at it.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
So Katrin is a successful podcast marketing
professional, has had a lot ofgreat titles behind her name
that she doesn't give herself nocredit for, but she's built her
own entrepreneurial journeythrough a lot of hard work and a
lot of effort.
But before we dive into some ofthat information, we're talking

(07:20):
about paths and we're talkingabout life's journey, life's
fearless road, the paths youtalk about in developing a
concept and an idea for you anda perspective around those paths
.
Travel while young seemed to bea big influencer for you.
What perspectives do you feellike while traveling, while
young afforded you to help youcreate your path?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
traveling while young afforded you to help you create
your path.
Traveling really allowed me tosee what my path could look like
down the road, by talking toother people and seeing how they
were living their lives.
But it's something actually thatI say that, and I say that
after the fact.
So when I was traveling, I wasin my bubble, I had my thoughts
and the way that I thought thatlife was supposed to be based

(08:07):
off of where I grew up.
And then, when I started totravel and I started to meet
people, I started to have thisrealization that, wow, many
people live very differently andthere's not one right way to
live.
Many people live very differentlives, but they're all very
happy.
And so that concept started toform when I started to travel

(08:28):
more and I started to meetpeople who are all happy, but
all living completely differentlives, having different
priorities, having differentthings that they cared about,
different things that theyfocused on in life, and it
started to open up my mind tosay well, what could make me
happy beyond what I've beentaught my life to this point by

(08:50):
the people that, of course,always thought to do right by me
?
Maybe they were teachers,parents, friends that shared
with me their perspective, butwe all shared a similar
perspective because we were allfrom the same place.
When you travel and you meetpeople and they're doing jobs
I'd never even heard of beforeand they're caring about things

(09:12):
that I had no idea that someonewould care about, or they're not
caring about things that, backwhere I came from, were so
important.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
So just being more open minded.
Really being more open mindedis really what travel has
afforded me and allowed me tomake decisions, to form event
called Leadership Navigator 2024back in March, where I had a
bunch of executive, femaleleaders, entrepreneurs coming
together to talk aboutauthenticity and leadership,
mentorship and branding andmessaging, and it was

(09:59):
fascinating to me because eachone of them came from a
different background, getting toa singular definition for what
success and happiness means.
It depends on where you camefrom, and each person had a
different idea in their mind andI realized for me as well that,
because of the world I grew upin and the people I grew up with

(10:20):
, happiness was defined byattaining these things, and so
you think those are the thingsyou need to go after.
And I heard a motivationalspeaker talking about raising
our children to reach for thelow hanging fruit.
When we talk about the fruit,the tree of success, that most
of us teach our children toreach for low hanging fruit

(10:43):
because it's what's accessibleand that's our understanding of
happiness, that's ourunderstanding of success.
But if you teach a child to gofor the higher fruit up the tree
, they can attain bigger things.
And he said what if we taughtthe child to just have their own
orchard, and I was like it blewmy mind because I was like, oh
my gosh, you know, we don't.

(11:04):
We don't see the orchard.
We see what our parents gave us, we see what our community gave
us.
We see what our little bubble,as you say, showed us, what
fruit was available?
Right, because they too hadlimited beliefs, limited
experiences, limitedperspectives as well, even
though they were trying to giveus what they thought was, you
know, for our own happiness andour own success.

(11:26):
But if you get outside of that,like you did with travel, you
begin to see that everyone'stree has different fruit, that
there's so many differentoptions out there, and I love
that you were able to have.
That new perspective, affordedyou the opportunity to sort of
look at reinventing your pathand your journey at a very

(11:46):
innate thank you.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
I appreciate that.
I mean I did have to go throughum difference of opinions with
people that meant a lot to me.
That yeah could not.
Uh couldn't see that and andsaid things to me like uh,
everybody wants to live in newYork and you don't want to live
in New York and gosh.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
No, the people in Costa Rica don't want to live in
New.
York and the people in.
I've heard that too.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Right, or when I left .
I used to be an accountant andI was working at PWC.
And when I left that job, thatcareer path, because I realized
early, early on, thankfully,that that was not the path I
wanted to go down, I was toldhow could you leave this stable
job that people dream of?
Having a job like this andyou'll have, you know, you'll be

(12:34):
secure.
But it wasn't for me and Icouldn't understand this concept
that there was just this oneway of being, let alone now I
moved from the US to Italy andthat is a whole different
conversation, but being toldwell, how could you leave the US
?
You know people come here to theUS.

(12:55):
I'm like well, people move todifferent countries all the time
and for some differentcountries and work better for
them and their personalities.
And I just have more of thismindset that there isn't a right
answer, there isn't a right oneway of living.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
There are thousands.
And, by the way, ladies andgentlemen, if you're actually
watching this episode, I am inmy hello moto, my beautiful
little moped Italian shirt thatI got in Italy last summer.
So this is my homage not onlyto Italy, but to Trin, who is in
Italy.
I love Italy, so now I'm inlove with her.
By default, it's my.

(13:31):
You know that's what's going tohappen.
She doesn't know it yet.
Thank you, michael.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
She can tell her fiance about it, or your husband
.
Is he your husband yet?
Fiance, fiance, americanhusband who loves Italy podcast.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, your pod doesn't, or something whatever.
Yeah, that's what they say.
So, okay.
So you mentioned moving toItaly.
There had to be some fear andtrepidation with taking that
step.
On how early in your careerpath was that when you decided
to make that decision?
And then, if you could let usknow how did that fear manifest?
In what ways?

(14:05):
And then, are there specificthings you did to either A
overcome it, or was it just bythe sheer fact of being there?
You kind of had to.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I decided I wanted to move to Italy, officially
November of 2021.
And I took almost that wholeyear Right after.
Covid, I think the pandemic forme was just another one of
those moments where the factthat our life is finite was
really just there in front of meand it really just had me

(14:33):
reevaluate everything.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
I think it did that for a lot of people.
I think a lot of people had tosit and reevaluate and took the
time, took that opportunity thatCOVID afforded them to
reevaluate where they were andto make a different choice.
So this is what you decided.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, exactly, and I did.
I took a year, though, beforemaking the decision.
I mean, it wasn't a rashdecision, I didn't go into it
lightly.
I really tried to think aboutevery single aspect of what my
life would look like living inItaly.
Of course, I have the privilegethat I have the ability that I
knew that if I didn't like it, Icould move back.

(15:10):
It wasn't something.
I knew that if I'm decidingthis, I could never change my
mind.
So that helped.
But it's not an easy thing tomove everything to a different
country, also to learn adifferent language and learn a
different culture, learndifferent customs, and so I did
take almost a year to really tothink about that decision.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
And you did that, but you weren't speaking the
language yet, right?
You only knew a little bit.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, when I first was thinking about it, I only
knew chow and not even really Ididn't know anything.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh Lord.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, it was really bad.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
No, it wasn't bad.
I just didn't know the language.
But I did start taking lessonsjust a couple times a week with
a tutor, and so I started to getjust the basics down.
So I was learning whilethinking about the decision and
then, of course, when I movedhere, I started to do more
intense classes, which we cantalk about.
But you mentioned fear.

(16:03):
I mean, there were so manyfears when I was thinking about
moving here that I had toeventually overcome, because I
eventually did decide toactually move here, and there
are a variety of things.
I kind of think of my life inlanes, and so maybe it's because
of this idea of paths, exactly.
And when I think of thedifferent lanes in this path

(16:24):
that I could take to go down.
It's like one's career, one isfamily, one is.
Now, I mean, learning Italianhas become one of my paths, and
so you know.
First fear am I going to missmy family and my friends here
too much?
Am I going to want to just comeright back?
Next fear I knew that the jobthat I had at the time, which I

(16:46):
really enjoyed I was themarketing director, director of
audience development at CumulusMedia Loved the company, loved
the people that I worked withand had no reason to leave other
than the fact that I wanted tomove to Italy.
And so having to find anotherjob that I actually liked in the
sector that I'm in, which ispodcasts and podcast marketing,

(17:07):
and so all of these fears, mybiggest fear was that I knew
that if I moved here, I wasmoving here with the intention
of actually staying long term.
So I talk about permanentlyrelocating.
Oftentimes, when people say I'man expat, I kind of correct
them or introduce myself as animmigrant, because I am, I'm,
I'm planning on living here longterm and, as far as I, know, I

(17:29):
think of an expat as someonewho's retired and then makes
that their home.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
That's the way I view it.
That's what I was thinking whenyou were talking earlier about
moving.
So many expats do this, but tome there's somebody who's sort
of retired and then living outthe rest of their years there,
whereas for you you're youngerand making it your new home, not
retiring, having to seek work,having to find a life, and it's

(17:54):
not just like you've got a bankaccount with money that's going
to, you know, roll in everymonth and you can, you know,
live off of it.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
No, absolutely not.
And it wasn't one of thosesituations where, you know, I
thought, oh, I just I'll save upand then I'll just use my
savings Like I wanted, tocontinue working and continue
making income and continuecontinue my life, just just in a
different location.
And one of the fears that keptcoming up over and over for me
was I do want to have kids andwill I be a bad mom?

(18:23):
Because if I'm in a place thatI don't know all the ins and
outs of how things work, will Inot be able to help them live
their best lives, especially ifI didn't end up learning the
language to the best of myability, which I'm trying.
I'm taking lessons and I dothink that by the time that I
have kids I'll be able to reallyI don't want to use the word

(18:44):
fluent, because I think thatwould take many years but really
speak very well.
But these are all fears thatpopped into my head.
And you know, moving to adifferent country, I actually
didn't even know some of thechallenges that I would even
have until I moved.
So I had all these fears.
And then, actually, when I camehere, some of the fears were, um

(19:05):
, were re, you know, wererealized, they came true, and
then I had to work through them.
And then there were alsoadditional things that I didn't
even realize until I moved here,that I have to, had to have to
deal with, but, um, at the endof the day, one one thing that I
really try to do in my life iswhen I make a decision, when I
make a choice, if that choiceends up becoming bringing me

(19:27):
challenges and is hard, I remindmyself that I am the one who
chose that and it helps me keepa positive outlook.
So, instead of when I was facedwith all these challenges when
I moved here, I mean,essentially, it's like being a
child all over again.
I had to relearn how to dogrocery shopping because, I
remember your story talkingabout.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
It's funny when you describe your experience in the
grocery store, because we have agrocery store called Central
Market in Texas.
Get your fruit, your produce orwhatever.
You have to weigh it, you haveto get the little printed
sticker for it.
Put it on your own stuff, thenbring it up to the front and it

(20:15):
became a thing you know, like acute thing that people did at
Central Market as opposed to foryou in Europe.
You're like wait, I'm supposedto bag and tag my own stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I had no idea.
I went up to the front with my.
I think I just wanted like anapple that day yeah, my own
stuff.
Challenges like those.
It allows me to keep a positivemindset and to say, okay, I

(20:46):
knew this was going to happen.
I knew I was going to have towork through some challenges.
There is a light at the end ofthe tunnel and so that has
helped me a lot.
And then getting through someof these fears, like when I
first moved here.
Specifically, I'm in Milan,italy.
The easiest way to get around,for me at least, is riding a
bike.

(21:06):
Now I know how to ride a bike,but where I come from in the US
is more of what they would callhere a countryside.
So I'm from Long Island.
I wouldn't call it acountryside.
People in Italy call it acountryside, but it's not a city
and you don't ride your bike.
You get into a car and youdrive places, and so I hadn't
rode a bike in a very long time.

(21:27):
And here now I had to learn howto well get back on a bike.
Let's say, not learn how toride a bike, but learn how to
ride a bike next to cars.
Learn that if a pass on smallstreets or big streets, but big
from Italy, from Milan, butnavigating.
If the parked car on the sideopens up the driver's door and

(21:47):
that's unexpected to not veerinto traffic, it's better to
just go into the door or to getthe good lock, because when you
park you have to lock your bike.
But make sure that the polethey are using to lock your bike
doesn't come out of the ground,because sometimes that's a
little trick.
So that's and it's all thesethings and I think that this is
something I've done in my lifewith other things as well, like
I ran the New York City Marathon, and when I do hard things and

(22:10):
I get through them, like I gotthrough riding a bike in the
city, it helps me get throughthese other things, like
learning how to grocery shop,learning XYZ I can't think of
other examples right now that ifI can do that first hard thing,
I can do all these other hardthings.
And I need to push past thefear Even when I was on that

(22:31):
bike, crying, heart racing,feeling like there's no way I
can do it pushing throughknowing I can do it, and then
when I do it, the rest of mychallenges seem lighter.
If that makes sense Well.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
So this is one of the things that I talk about often.
It's a statement that I makeoften, which is I specifically
with entrepreneurship.
When we announce to theuniverse that we want to do,
have or be something other thanwho and what we are today, we
are telling the universe we wantto grow into this next great

(23:06):
version of ourselves, we want tostep into this next version of
ourselves, the most authenticversion of ourselves, because we
see an opportunity thereversion of ourselves, the most
authentic version of ourselvesbecause we see an opportunity
there.
Well, when you do that and youannounce to the universe that
you want to do, have or becomesomething other than who you are
today, it comes with thosechallenges.
You are inviting theopportunity to grow, which means

(23:27):
it comes with those challenges.
And I say you can't go intoGold's Gym and say I'm inviting
the opportunity to grow musclesbut you're not going to pick up
a weight.
That's not how that worksExactly.
And the bigger the dream, thebigger the thing you tell the
universe you want to have.
By the way, those challengesare going to come and the fact

(23:49):
that you already A accepted thatyou made this choice, owning
responsibility for the choicethat you made to step fully into
that experience.
Number one.
Number two, that it would comewith these challenges some you
might anticipate and others youwouldn't.
And then, finally C, that youwould tackle every one of them

(24:09):
along the way and know thatyou're going to grow from them
and learn from them and come outthe other side, to grow from
them and learn from them andcome out the other side.
Having that mindset, I think, iswell.
First of all, I think whatputting yourself in those
experiences, by the way, buildsneuroplasticity.
It's one of the things I'vetouched on a couple of times in
other episodes talking about.
If we place ourselves inuncomfortable situations,

(24:30):
getting outside our comfort zone, and we challenge the
neuroplasticity of our brain aswe begin to tackle those things,
the more we get comfortablewith tackling them.
Then, when those otherchallenges come along, they're
not so intimate and fear doesn'thave the same power that it
used to have before.
Do you find that to be true foryou as well?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Absolutely, and you put that into beautiful words.
It's exactly how I feel thatwhen something feels
uncomfortable, I know that it'suncomfortable because I haven't
done it before and it's likeexercising a muscle.
It's funny, you use the Gold'sGym example and I always talk
about that exercising a muscleand it could be as simple.

(25:15):
As you know, flying for somepeople is a fear, but you know,
maybe you get on a flight that'sjust an hour, so that the next
time you get on you see, ok, ifI did that, maybe I could do the
one that's three hours and thenI could do the one that's six
hours.
So you know, starting small,but I absolutely do believe that
that if you exercise the muscleof whatever is uncomfortable

(25:35):
for you, it will get easier andthat could even journey out into
other things, like the bikeriding example.
Or I mentioned really briefly,I ran the New York City Marathon
in 2019.
That was really challenging forme.
I'd never run a marathon before, or even a half marathon, or
even a 5K.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
So why not?
Why not take on the bigot?
Yeah, right, hello.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
But because I did it now, when something else is hard
, especially, for example,physical things, like if I'm in
a workout class or something I'mlike.
Come on you ran the New YorkCity Marathon.
You can do this, but yeah.
Or if your bicycle gets a flatand while you're in Italy,

(26:19):
you're like it's only a fewhundred blocks, I can do this.
I'll just run it Exactly.
Well, listen, nothing preparesyou more for challenges than
Italian bureaucracy.
If anyone's ever dealt withItalian bureaucracy, that comes
as no surprise.
But yeah, no, I joke, but it'strue.
Exactly what you said is true.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Red, white and green tape Exactly so you describe.
Uh, it's a part of theexperiences that you have, you
know, while being there andrebuilding your life and
reinventing yourself and takingon new roles and opportunities,
experiencing imposter syndrome,um, early on, and how?

(26:53):
So?
A lot of people, entrepreneursspecifically, really, you know
we feel that we feel impostersyndrome because we're stepping
into something that's new to us.
We're trying to take on a newrole and a new responsibility
and a hundred different hatsthat we're trying to wear to
build our business, and impostersyndrome is a tough thing
because it's part of our brainthat tells us we're not worthy

(27:15):
of stepping into this thing thatwe want because we haven't
learned enough, we haven't theskill set isn't quite there.
Who do we think we are?
Are we?
You know what I mean?
It's, to me, it's always aself-worth issue and
understanding that, your value.
Do you have the right to takethis on and do it?
When you were experiencingimposter syndrome, tackling all

(27:35):
of these different things inItaly and in Europe, how do you
describe that for you?
Was it feelings of self-doubtor self-worth for you, or how
was imposter syndromemanifesting itself for you there
?

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Imposter syndrome in general in my life has
manifested itself probably themost in my career path.
As you mentionedentrepreneurship I did mention
earlier, I started my workinglane in accounting.
Now I'm a podcast marketer andyou kind of briefly touched on

(28:11):
it in the beginning that I've,you know, I've done a lot of
different things and I'velearned a lot of different
skills along the way and now Idefine myself as a podcast
marketer and there have been alot of moments along that
working lane that I have hadthis imposter syndrome and this
idea of well, who am I to beteaching others or growing other

(28:34):
people's podcasts, et cetera,et cetera.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Of course, we're getting paid to do, or getting
paid or getting paid the rightamount.
I have priced myself very low.
I remember you mentioned whereyou were like your first invoice
and you were like I did notprice myself.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
No Value myself.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Let's, let's call that value myself by enough.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Exactly yeah that has ?
Yeah, that's myself by enoughExactly.
Yeah, that has.
Yeah, that's manifestedAbsolutely.
I anticipate it's going to.
Probably, you know, impostersyndrome is going to come up
again when I am hopefully a mom,which is something I want to be
.
I'm sure I'm going to doubtmyself then.
But I will say, the thing that'shelped me overcome it initially

(29:16):
is a support system, becauseover time I've been able to beat
imposter syndrome by justactually proving to myself by
actual results that I know whatI'm doing and I can get really
good results.
For, for example, now inpodcast marketing for podcasts,
I can grow audiences forpodcasts very well and I know

(29:38):
what I'm doing there.
But that takes time because youhave to get past imposter
syndrome to actually start to dothe thing to get the results.
So in the beginning, having areally good support system is
really, really important, and Ihaven't always had that.
There's been moments in my lifewhere it's been stronger than
others.
Currently in my life it isextremely strong.

(30:00):
I have a very amazing supportsystem and so that has
definitely helped me push pastdoubt in times where maybe I
wanted to price myself lower.
I didn't want to give myselfthat value for whatever reason.
I am having external factorswhich of course we want to look
within before we look externally.
But sometimes when it's hard tohaving that good support system

(30:22):
, to externally say, hey, no,you're worth more, you're doing
a great job, actually, you'rereally good at that Helps a lot
to kind of push through thoseinitial first moments of doubt.
First moments of doubt.
And then I think just somethingthat really helped me was
continuing to practice and learnmy skill and my craft.

(30:43):
So I'm always learning andtrying to be better at what I do
so that I can't doubt myself.
I almost have.
I don't have time to doubtmyself because if I'm not
actually doing the work, I'mlearning how I can do it better.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
And so I was going to say can you give someone else
some tips and tricks, which youjust did, I think, on doing that
, one of the things that I talkabout and we actually talked
about this on LeadershipNavigator as well was imposter
syndrome, which I kind of takeoffense at as entrepreneurs.
I firmly believe if you're anentrepreneur and you've stepped

(31:20):
onto this path, onto yourfearless road, and you are
tackling the things you need totackle to learn, to become the
thing you want to become, you'renot an imposter.
You are in the becoming rightand the journey of becoming is
not fake.
There's nothing fake about it.
Every step you take, everystumble, every struggle, every

(31:41):
obstacle you've overcome to getthere is part of a journey to
become the thing that you'reclaiming you want to step into
and to be.
That journey is no lessvaluable than having attained
the actual title.
The actual title.
And to me, to suggest that it'simposter behavior, it's not fair
and I don't like it, and I'mtrying to reframe it for all of

(32:01):
us, because I feel like ifyou're genuinely becoming an
entrepreneur and you're steppingout onto a path just like you
did, not only are you steppingout onto a path, you're stepping
onto it outside of your owncountry, in a whole new country,
learning a new language andtaking on a new set of roles and
responsibilities, using thoseskill sets that you already are
passionate about to develop acareer, and I honor you and I

(32:22):
admire you for doing that andnow role modeling it for others.
So congratulations, you are notan imposter to me.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Thank you so much, Michael.
Your words are very kind and Ilove your work.

(32:52):
To try to rephrase imposter,because it's true, Nobody just
you know was born as asuccessful owner of a, and all
the episodes that came out wherethe one that stuck with me was
Dyson and Dyson wanted to createthis new vacuum and everyone
was like who are you kidding?
Hoover has the vacuum market.
You're never going to be biggerthan hoover yeah, um, and then

(33:14):
he, he did and I think there'smore to that story like he got
kicked out of his own companybecause he had like um, at that
point he didn't own 100 anymoreand they really thought like
this guy is nuts and and youknow.
But he did it and he pushedthrough and now he's.
Everyone, I think, knows what adyson is.
Um, if you don't, they sellvacuums and hair blow dryers for
your hair and other accessories.

(33:37):
But yeah, it's a good, it'staking in information, like you
said, like you want to helppeople with this podcast.
You know this is amazing thatyou're doing this podcast
because hopefully others canhear this and have a light bulb
moment, that you know, oh shoot,I'm feeling imposter syndrome.

(33:57):
But you know, actually I'm juston my path and you know it's OK
and I'm just going to workthrough my path to keep getting
better and eventually I won'tfeel this way anymore.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
So well, let's dive into podcasting.
I love that you're passionateabout that and I love that not
only were you passionate abouthelping others bring their
message to market and reallycreate better impact which I
might actually you know offlineask you for some help and some

(34:25):
ideas on how to get morelisteners for me now that you do
it so well but you took whatyou knew and your passion for
Italy and then you turned itinto your own podcast and you
were talking about not on thisepisode, but we were talking
previously about Just Start,when I was learning to do my

(34:53):
motivational speaking, when Iwas learning to do my coaching
and consulting, when I waslearning to create a number of
different things over the lasttwo to three years from my
entrepreneurial journey.
Do you know that the number onepiece of advice I have seen and
heard written down in almostevery single course and class
that people say is to just getstarted.

(35:14):
It doesn't have to be perfect,it doesn't have to be good, Just
get it going.
And that very act of energy,that very act of just getting
started, does something for usas entrepreneurs.
That's different from otherexperiences.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwe're getting to that, like how
you, what you did to just start, and then we're going to talk

(35:36):
about Italian for sure.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Absolutely so.
I got the advice to just startwhen I was thinking about my
podcast idea, and I had beenthinking about it for so long
because what I was doing was Ihad gotten the equipment at this
point.
You know I'm not a podcastproducer, but I learned a lot
about podcast production.
I had, you know, reached out tothe guests I wanted to talk to.

(36:08):
I had planned the episodes, theepisode outlines, I had done,
you know, all of the thingsyou're supposed to do audio only
, or video and audio and therewas so much planning going on
and I guess I'm a perfectionistin that I really just wanted to
get everything perfect before itwent out, and probably there

(36:38):
was definitely fear of knowingthat this product that I was
putting out into the world issomething that people will then
know and be able to listen toand judge me for.
And I don't say that in a badway, it's just naturally.
We do that right.
We listen and we consume thingsand then maybe we have a
thought about them, and so Iwanted to make sure it portrayed
my best work and my bestability.
It portrayed my best work andmy best ability, but that

(37:03):
thought was just rolling and itwasn't helping me get started.
And I remember being at apodcast event here in Milan and
somebody from a podcast networkhere just said those two words
to me.
They were like just start.
And I don't know why, Maybeother people had even said it in
the past but when he said thosewords just this person that I'm
connected here throughpodcasting I was like okay, and
maybe it was because I reallywas ready at that point.

(37:24):
I mean, really I had gotteneverything prepared and ready.
So there really wasn't anythingthat I left to do.
But I think for me, what JustStart meant was it doesn't mean
start with absolutely no plan.
I do believe that you know youshould probably think a little
bit and plan, but if you'regetting held back by making sure

(37:45):
, trying to make sure thateverything is absolutely perfect
before you go ahead and launchthe thing, so, for example, with
podcasting, it's putting it outfor other people to listen, to
Just put it out, and especiallywith something like podcasting,
specifically because it'susually a long journey, exactly
a long path, a long road.

(38:08):
When you put out a podcast,unless it's a series or fiction
or something like that.
The style of podcast I'm doingI plan on doing for many, many
years and I've being in thepodcast industry have heard
other podcasters.
I've heard their first episodeand I've heard their hundredth
episode and it's often verydifferent and I you know, listen
, I'm not sitting there going,oh, but their first episode was

(38:29):
so bad, it's like, well, that'snot what I'm thinking.
I'm thinking you know how greatit is now, or how great that
they started, or how great thatthey decided to even take the
journey, because you know, it'sas you mentioned before that it
takes confidence to go ahead andstart that journey.
So I think I really just had toself, I had to think about what

(38:49):
I would, what advice I wouldgive to someone else, and so
when that person said, juststart to me, I was like that's
advice I think I would givesomeone else that was in my
position, and so I said OK, andI think I curves.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
There is some video that I can't use because I cut
my head off, and there is othertimes where I remember when you

(39:22):
were trying to like, do B-rollwith your, with your, with your
phone camera and you, I didexactly the same thing.
I thought I'm going to getB-roll from the left side and
I'm going to do this, and then Igo back and look at it.
It's like you could see half ofmy nose and my face and I was
like, darn it.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, so you know that's the one, one, one video.
My camera completely dies halfthe way through, so it's like
yeah.
So, you know I had to go.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Who hasn't experienced that?
The art of finding the, youknow, the permanent battery pack
or the power source?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Well, now I plug it in.
I've learned, I plug it in.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Plug it in.
Plug it in.
It's not just air freshenerfolks, it is actually good
advice for your camera For yourcamera, for your video podcast.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
But I think it was also acceptance acceptance that
it doesn't have to be perfect,and it doesn't even a hundred
episodes later.
It doesn't have to be perfect,and especially in the podcast
industry specifically.
Things are constantly evolving,they're constantly changing.
There's new technology, there'snew best practices.
Now we're doing video.
Before we were just doing audio.
So I think I had to get out ofmy own way and just start and I

(40:31):
give that advice to anybody.
If you're at a point whereyou've already done the planning
and the plotting and thethinking and you're like getting
close to releasing the productand for some reason you just
can't press the big green buttonthat just puts it out into the
world, set a date, make sureeverything's ready, set that
date and get it out there,because it's going to be great,
it's going to be fun.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
So you just gave us tips about overcoming the fear
of launching.
Put that date on the calendar,folks.
One of the things that thisparticular audience on the
Fearless Road podcast I may nothave mentioned, the Ascend Hub,
which is a new online membershipcommunity that I am launching
August 19th.
I'm holding you to that I am,well, I am.

(41:11):
So it's aspiring entrepreneurs,mentors, leaders, people who
are looking for a community ofindividuals and resources to
help guide them on thatparticular journey.
One of the things I experiencedand even in my 54 years or 52
years when I did this, ofexperience I've had marketing
careers, production careers,multimedia performance, you name
it Even with all the skill setsthat I had, and I considered

(41:33):
myself to be pretty savvy andtechnically proficient was
challenging to both be isolated,overwhelmed by the tech,
overwhelmed by the informationoverload, and feeling alone on
my journey.
I wanted to create a space forall of us where we could do it
together and share thoseresources and that knowledge and
that experience.

(41:54):
And one of the things that Irealized that the community
could do was to hear otherpeople say just get started.
One of the things I found wasyes, I believe that it is you
have to sort of be ready, that apart of you has to have reached
that space where you're readyto hear that message, even
though a hundred people might'vesaid it to you before, but what

(42:17):
I love about this onlinecommunity is that you might hear
it said from others, fromsomebody else in a certain way
that finally comes through foryou, that finally gets through
and sinks in and gets you totake that action, that you need
to go ahead and be successful,to take that chance on yourself.
And I love that you were inthat space, that mindset to take
that chance on yourself, and Ilove that that, that you were.

(42:37):
You were in that space, thatmindset to do that.
Um, what so you said you hadobviously your experience was in
podcast marketing.
You knew enough, like to get introuble, having having seen
what everybody else was doing,and I think it was a bit of a

(42:58):
roadblock for you.
Knowing as much as you did, Ithink if you'd come from it from
a place of ignorance, you mighthave just done more right right
away.
Um, what was the turning pointthat led you to go ahead and
start?
Italian for sure?
And then, why italian for sure?
Like we'll talk about, tell usabout the podcast, let's's go
ahead, and like that, let's goahead?
And, yeah, did you find knowingtoo much to be sort of that

(43:21):
getting what you said, gettingout of your own way?

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Absolutely.
You hit the nail on the headwith that, because being in the
industry, being in the podcastindustry, I knew that this
podcast, while I hope that itwould find the right people and
I'll talk about what the podcastis about in a second in the
target audience, I also knewthat the industry might look at
it, and that is also areflection of my work, and so I

(43:46):
wanted to put my best footforward for my career path as
well, and so it was kind ofthese two lanes, as I mentioned,
kind of combining my careerlane and also now this podcast
lane where, for example, someonewho knew that maybe being on
camera doing a video podcast wassomething that was a block for
me because I was a littlenervous to be in front of the

(44:07):
camera, they said, well, juststart with audio.
And I said, I know disrespectto people who are starting with
audio, but all the podcasts thatI'm working with now are all
getting set up for video becausethat's the direction that we're
going in the podcast industry.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Thank you, YouTube.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
And so it just I couldn't do it because, being in
the industry, I said how can Igo out with an audio only
podcast now, knowing what I know?
As you said, how could I notget the Shure SM7B mic?

Speaker 1 (44:34):
and you know, dip into my Sagan.
I'm envious of it because Ihave the other Shure, but I
really want that one.
I haven't upgraded yet, butI'll get there.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
No, and you know what , though?
There's so many podcasts thatsound amazing and they don't
have like whatever level ofequipment and you don't need it
anymore, but I just I reallywanted that.
I had that perfectionistmindset, and, who knows, now, if
I look back, maybe I could havestarted with, you know, not
taking on video right away, notthe best equipment, and would it
have turned out fine?

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Probably yeah, but these are all just things that I
think I had in my mind, becauseI work in the industry
absolutely but don't you thinkthat the audience is also way
more savvy nowadays and theirexpectation level of performance
and productive product qualityof production has has increased
as a result of better qualitystuff coming out all the time?

(45:23):
Like back in the day, five, tenyears ago, you could tolerate a
poor quality podcast because itwas a podcast you're like.
Well, they're not supposed tobe and they're not overproduced
and they're not, you know,they're not done by the big
studios and things like that.
So for us I think ourexpectation levels were much
lower and nowadays I think it'smuch higher.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Absolutely.
Someone said to me recently ohhey, I listened to your podcast
and it sounds like the otherpodcast that I listened to from
from some network I won't evenyou know mention names, it
doesn't matter, but it was likea highly produced network that
probably put a lot of money andresources behind that podcast.

(46:02):
And it's interesting that thatwas the kind of compliment that
they wanted to give me and itwas for me because I'm in the
industry, and I said thank you,and I've gotten compliments on
my setup.
When I went and did a recordinghere at the Spotify office with
someone there and I brought allmy equipment and I set it up
and they said, wow, this is oneof the most professional
recording setups that I've seen.

(46:23):
And so it's these things that Ithink are coming from the fact
that I'm in the industry, notnecessarily just because of what
I want to do, what I'm, whatthe podcast is about, which I'll
tell you.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yes, that's segue.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
So the podcast is called Italian for sure, as we
mentioned before, and theoverall mission of the podcast
is to help spread accurateinformation about Italian
culture.
It's in English.
Target is Americans who maybethey have, maybe their ancestry
is Italian, or maybe they arejust fascinated by Italy, as

(47:00):
many are, or they studied abroadin Italy or new fan or maybe
they're they just they want togo to Italy and so they want to
kind of get like a guidebook ofthe culture before they go.
The idea of Italian culture inAmerica is sometimes skewed
because we have this strongItalian-American kind of

(47:24):
subculture, and so there's this.
Sometimes there'smisinformation about what is
actually Italian culture andwhat is Italian-American culture
, and so part of the mission isalso to kind of create that
divide and to say, okay, this isactually Italian from Italy
culture.
But I didn't feel it was rightfor me, as an American, to just

(47:44):
start a podcast where I amtalking about Italian culture
just alone by myself, and so Ithought it was a wonderful
opportunity.
This is the beauty of the formatto interview Italians and to
say, hey, this is what I'venoticed as an American, maybe a
difference.
And then we talk about thatpart of Italian culture, because
it's the perspective ofsomething that an American would

(48:04):
find interesting, because I'mnoticing that difference.
And then they talk about it.
And you know, I've talked toAndrea Quadrio Curzio from Cucci
Terme, which opened up in theUS.
It's now rebranded to QC Spa ofWonders in New York.
If you're ever in New York, onGovernor's Island there's QC Spa
.
So I've talked to founders ofbig companies, international

(48:27):
companies, and then I also I'mtalking to street performers and
I'm talking to everyone inbetween and I'm talking to
people from Milan and Rome andSicily and all different regions
.
There's 20 regions in Italy.
Those were not the names ofregions, so just don't come for
me.
Those are names of cities.
But you know, I had thismission and desire to start this

(48:50):
podcast, um, and, and I've beenthinking about it now probably
for two years, because I waswriting down every time there
was one of these interestingcultural differences.
I wrote it down in a note andit just got to the point where
that note in my phone was solong, I was like I should do
something with this.
Um, and it started Italian.

(49:11):
For sure because it's Italianculture, for sure because you're
hearing it from Italians.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
So for sure is, it's not just a like, for sure,
because it's Italian culture,For sure, because you're hearing
it from Italians.
So for sure is, it's not just alike, for sure, like it's not
like a statement, or what wasthe, what was that part?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
That part.
I had thought so long about thename to try to have a name that
one did not give the impressionthat the podcast was about Italy
and traveling around Italy,Because there are a lot of
podcasts about traveling aroundItaly and I had tested a lot of
names with different groups ofpeople and people kept saying,
all right, I wouldn't tell themwhat the podcast was about and
they would say, oh, it's abouttraveling in Italy.

(49:45):
And I say no.
And I finally got to Italianfor sure, which didn't give that
.
Of course, maybe you're notsure that it's certainly about
culture, but it didn'timmediately say to you or give
someone the impression that itwas about travel, and so for
sure was, it's for sure, italian.
Don't take my word for it, notbecause I'm American, but let's

(50:07):
talk to Italians and get them tosay what's actually Italian and
what's not.
For example, do not cut thepasta.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Or in Italy, Do not break the spaghetti.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
In Italy they absolutely do not use the spoon
to twirl the pasta.
Maybe if you're a kid andyou're learning, but definitely
not as an adult.
No, and then we really gobeyond the stereotypes, and
that's another thing.
I really wanted to haveconversations that go beyond
pasta and pizza and Vespas.
We have fun talking about thosethings, but then we also talk

(50:42):
about a lot of various things.
I mean recently, in the episodethat I released last week, we
talked about silence.
So in Italian culture,especially in the north because
often it does vary between northand south and we always talk
about what region or what areaof Italy we're discussing but
especially in the north,italians have this way of being

(51:07):
where they're comfortable beingwith others, but in silence, and
what I mean by that is, as anAmerican, I noticed that often
we talk over each other.
Someone ends a sentence andsomeone immediately starts
talking, like there's no silentgap in between talking.
In Italian culture, from whatthis person was describing and

(51:27):
also from what I've noticed,there is more silence and just
being.
That's an activity.
That's an activity to just bewith somebody in silence.
It's hard to describe, but thisis exactly why I'm not the one
describing it.
You can listen to the episodeand hear an Italian person
describe it.
But yeah, we talk about avariety of different things and

(51:50):
it's a really, really we have alot of fun.
It's a mix of educational,because you're learning about
another culture, andentertaining, and it kind of
full circle back to thebeginning of this conversation
here on this podcast aboutopening your mind by learning
about different cultures.
And if you're unable to travelas much as you would like,

(52:13):
because it's not always easy foreverybody, now we have these
other ways of learning aboutdifferent cultures and different
ways of living through podcastsor through social media or the
internet, and so it could be away also just to learn something
that you didn't know before andhave that fun party fact when
you go to a party and you're theone that knows that cool thing
about Italy.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
And I would concur, ladies and gentlemen, if you
have any fascination whatsoeverwith Italy, if you haven't been
yet, listen to Italian.
For sure it does give you anincredible, insightful viewpoint
into some of the ways toappreciate Italy and all its
nuanced experiences, experiences.

(52:58):
I think what we get as travelers, especially if we're, you know,
we're going to Italy, is we getthe car ride conversation, we
get the taxi viewpoint, you know, or the hospitality individual
at the hotel who's sharing thosethings, but it's really not
what I would call local and Ifeel like they give us what we
want to hear, yes, and if youget outside of that, that pat

(53:20):
response, if you will and youget to see the countryside and
you get to experience the people, katrin's show actually shares
with you some of those thingsyou might not hear, most likely
won't, if you're just visitinginside the city centers and
you're in the most traveled,americanized, if you will,
spaces in Italy, which they arefor sure, in almost every part

(53:40):
of Europe there are Americancenters, americanized
experiences, and it's really, Ithink, valuable to get outside
that.
So we're going to wrap this up alittle bit the power of
perspective which I feel like,this is paths and perspectives.

(54:01):
You can see them both as thesame right Lanes and paths and
each one has a differentperspective.
So share with our audience thelast viewpoint that you have
with regards to identifying yourpath, the last sort of last
like viewpoint that you havewith regards to identifying your
path, finding your lane andadopting new perspectives to

(54:28):
help with fear and life.
Everything is made up.
Yes, you talked about thisbefore.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
It's all a construct.
It's all a construct of yourexperiences, of what you have
been exposed to, of what youknow, whether that now is, you
know, internet based, or whetherthat's the real life
experiences or in person Ishouldn't say real life, but in
person experiences.
Everything is made up meaning,and what do I mean by that?
It's something that reallyhelped me go beyond what others

(54:55):
thought was the right path forme Was that maybe for somebody,
what they're wearing, theclothes on their back, having a
great fashion sense, is reallyimportant to that person, but
for you it doesn't feelimportant and so for you it's

(55:17):
not.
It doesn't mean that it is andyou don't care, or that it's not
and that person cares too much.
It means that it's made up.
For that person it's important,and that's totally fine.
For you it's less important,and that's totally fine.
You have the ability to move toa different country and you
want to try moving there andsomeone tells you well, how
could you leave the country thatyou're from?
Because you know it's better,or whatever they might say from

(55:41):
that person.
That might be fact.
It is a better place to livefor them, but it is not a better
place to live for you.
And so it's trying to remove allof these opinions and judgments
and trying to understand whatyou actually want, like almost
instead of figuring out who youare thinking of, like peeling

(56:02):
back the layers of an onion tofind, like, who you've always
been, but has the opinions fromother people kind of blocked you
from taking the path that youactually wanted to take.
So my advice would be keep thatin mind.
Everything is made up.
Continue to expose yourself tonew experiences, new
perspectives.
Talk to people I would say tostrangers, but in a safe way,

(56:29):
just talk to people.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Learn new things.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Or listen to Dalyan, for sure you can hear strangers
on her podcast all the time,exactly, in a safe way, from
your living room, in a safe wayexactly.
Yeah, learn about the authentichow to find an authentic
restaurant in Italy and not beworried that someone's going to
attack you.
No, so it's really that, Ithink, would be.
The best advice that I couldgive is just really keeping an

(56:54):
open mind.
But to form an open mind, Ithink the easiest way to do that
is to just keep taking in otherperspectives so that you can
understand what resonates withyou and try things.
If you go down a path and youfind out five years later that
that working path, that languagepath, that relationship path,
that whatever path, actuallywasn't the right way to go, turn

(57:19):
around, go a different way, um,you can adjust as you go down
the fearless road Um you.
it's not fixed.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Well, and speaking of um, where can every if people
want to find out more about youand what you're doing, the great
Katrin Spakartis I have thisdyslexic thing that's going on
Share with us where we can findyou, what are your handles?
What are your at mentions?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Sure, so it's ItalianForSurecom, if you want
to go to the website, and youcan find all of the links to the
different podcast platforms.
So ItalianForSurecom on YouTube, italian for sure channel on
Instagram and TikTok, italianfor sure is the handle and yeah,

(58:04):
and all the platforms.
You can just look up and searchItalian comma for sure and
enjoy the podcast.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Well, Katrin, thank you so much for sharing your
journey, your fearless road.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
You've enlightened a lot of us on some things.
I think that we can make somereally great points, which is,
ladies and gentlemen, if you arein a place where you're
wondering you're thinking aboutgetting started and fear or the
idea of what other people'sopinions about your actions
might take.
Take some advice from Katrintoday A get started, Just get

(58:43):
started on a path, and thataction alone will invite the
universe to bring to you allkinds of new opportunities, even
the ones you don't expect foryou to grow into the next
greatest version of yourself.
While traveling your fearlessroad and enjoy the journey.
Open yourself up to as manyperspectives and as many
opportunities for experience asyou can, because one of the

(59:04):
things you're going to learn asKatrin has helped us understand
about ourselves and our journeyis the power of perspective, and
the power of experience canhelp shape the rest of our lives
and actually help us find realhappiness.
So thank you again, Katrin, forbeing on the Fearless Road
podcast.
You've been a blessing, You'vebeen a treat, and I'm a fan of

(59:25):
Italy and I'm a big fan of yoursnow, so thank you very much.
Do you have any last words foranybody?

Speaker 2 (59:31):
No, I think that I've said all that I can say for now
, but thank you so much forhaving me on, Michael.
It was really a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Of course, and as I say before we close out,
everybody stay fearless, have afearless mindset and travel the
world, whether it's through yourpodcast, even on Catrins, which
is Italian for sure, italianfor sure.
And this has been the FearlessRoad, with Michael DeBoot and
Catrin Capertus Enjoy Bye, bye,this has been a Fearless Road.

(01:00:01):
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