Letting Go of Judgment & Embracing Curiosity with Arlene Miller

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, Melissa Crook here from The Field Podcast.
We have ways to engage for today's episode with embracing
kindness, patience and tolerancewith Arlene Miller.
We talk a lot about here a lot here on the Field podcast.
Let me start that over again. We talk about living out of our

(00:23):
own expectations a lot here on The Field Podcast, but do you
consider what expectations you put upon other people?
Are they fair and reasonable? Are you making a quick judgment
of someone else and what you expect from them to do for you
to show up for you? The work begins with us and we

(00:45):
should keep these thoughts in the back of our mind as we
continue to grow and evolve. So just keep in mind we want to
be the ones to set our own expectations and communicate
those to others and but it's easy to fall into the trap of
then ourselves setting expectations for someone else.
So if you don't know what their expectations are, rather than

(01:08):
making assumptions, maybe. Ask them.
Maybe they've never thought about the fact before that they
need to communicate their own expectations to you.
So we hope this helps you engagethis week with our episode
today, embracing kindness, patience and tolerance with
Arlene Miller. Thanks so much for being with
us. Hello and welcome to The Field

(01:44):
Podcast. I'm your host, Melissa Crook,
and I'm here today with a new friend, Arlene Cohen.
Miller and I met Arlene through our good friends at Pod Match
and I'm excited to share her voice today.
She's got a rich background and history, both personally and
then also what she offers professionally on multiple

(02:05):
levels. She's got a heart.
For. Women, and you're going to see
that unfold as we talk today andgo through these talking points.
But Arlene describes herself as authentic, compassionate,
courageous and loyal. And she referred to them as
sacred qualities. And I love that way of thinking

(02:26):
about our character traits. Arlene, welcome to the Field
podcast. Thank you, I'm really grateful
to be here. I'm grateful to have you.
OK, let's get right into it. Talk to me about prioritizing
self-care in your life. You've gone through a various
seasons where you've been a working mom and wife.

(02:46):
You've been a single mom and working.
You've been and been married again and you've, So you've seen
different iterations of what it looks like to try to balance
taking care of yourself, showingup well for yourself, showing up
well for others in A and, and we're all we hear women talking
about all the time trying to balance it all, trying to make

(03:08):
space for it all. And you're able to help people
with that now. But talk to me about your
journey and getting there, understanding that.
Yeah, I just want to point out one thing with our words and our
words are so powerful. If we try to do something, we're
going to be left trying. So it's really important to
choose and find a way to make ithappen.

(03:29):
You know, even if, if our self-care is like 15 minutes a
day or whatever it is or, or will we have that time for
ourselves, we have to really choose it.
And. And not just try because
otherwise, like you said, we'll be left trying it.
And I'm lots of times we don't hear how we're talking to
ourselves and what's, how powerful those words are.

(03:52):
And so yes, self-care has alwaysbeen really important to me.
I just, I think like a light bulb went off like my freshman
year of college, like, like the brother of one of my dear
friends was like, you got me into running into working out.
And it just became more of a part of my life.
And so by the time my son was born, I I became pregnant when I

(04:16):
was 29 and he was born when I was 30.
And when when I became pregnant,I had I got my law degree from
University of Kentucky with my ex-husband.
We moved up to the Cleveland, OHarea.
So I had to retake a bar exam the second time.
All of our family was in Kentucky.
All my like my peers and my law school friends, you know, would

(04:39):
be a support were practicing mostly in Kentucky and Indiana.
And so I had nothing. And my my ex-husband was doing
his residency at the Cleveland Clinic.
So I had like a roof over in my head and I was taken care of,
but I didn't have him as a physical person there to assist
me as I opened this business andI was pregnant.

(05:01):
So I just had to like, develop my own tribe.
There weren't any like work lifebalance and harmony coaches back
then. That wasn't reality.
And so I just had to sort of like go by the seat of my pants.
But I guess, and I got a lot of Flack back because, you know,
back then I was a runner. Now I do yoga and I always

(05:24):
prioritize, maybe because I would internalize breath a lot.
I just needed an outlet and, and, and that kind of
exercising, those endorphins were just such a great outlet
for me. I did something.
So I ended up like finding a, a place.
It was like a big workout club that had babysitters for the
kids and some other women that had young kids and a couple of

(05:45):
guys I really liked too. And we would just go out for
runs together or we'd work out just some weights in the gym.
But it was like we were, I founda group of like minded souls to
support me and I supported them because it's not easy being a
working parent at all. And so, you know, the kids would
play together, they'd be OK. Sometimes they fight, sometimes

(06:07):
they wouldn't. But you know, life goes on.
But sometimes that's really a nice way to do it.
You know, if we had younger kidsto find ways to, you know, have
friends or even your good acquaintances, which is what
they were, that we had a common interest, we can give this to
each other together. Yeah.
And maybe commiserate a little bit, let off some steam, and

(06:28):
then be better parents, you know?
Absolutely, absolutely. I love that you point that out
of one to choose and not try andbecause that is so important in
the end. It's like in that saying yes to
yourself and choosing yourself and knowing you're worthy and
valuable of that time. I relate to the running piece.
I ran for years. I ran competitively in high

(06:50):
school, a little bit in college,ran half marathons when my kids
were little, when I was in my 30s.
My hips finally started screaming at me in my early 40s
and I, I've switched switched modes, but I understand the
power of that. Just just releasing it.
Even though I wasn't tending to other parts intentionally

(07:10):
necessarily, there was still a relief and a physical relief and
a movement of things through. And I just took that time to
clear my head and have that space by myself.
But you got to value yourself and your time enough to be
willing to do that. But doing it in community with
other people that will hold you accountable, expect to see you

(07:30):
there. You expect to see them there.
So you can take, you can hold each other accountable as well.
But there's so much power in that and that you were able to
grab onto that. It's such a early time.
That's so important. And I'm thank you for sharing
that. That's really powerful.
How did that evolve from there? Like you understood that early

(07:51):
on, but you've moved into since then really helping other women
and other men too, But especially you really have a
heart for working moms and working women in this space.
So how did you go from thinking,OK, I, I figured this out for
myself and I know what's important for me.
I think I can help others with that too.

(08:12):
Well, I think it's really important for people to
understand I'm a coach and a mentor.
So there's a difference. And as a coach, and I do this as
a mentor to what I've learned through coaching and mentoring
because I have like a diploma incoaching and mentoring and also
a diploma in transformational holistic counseling from
Australia. I can't practice in the US, but
I wanted to have those skills and abilities.

(08:33):
And I'm also like a certified meditation facilitator.
I got all that was still practicing law in my law.
I I just had this. Well, there was a reason because
law school does not teach you how to listen.
And I was like a negotiator in my second law firm and I was a
marketer. And it's really important to

(08:54):
know how to actually listen to people so they feel heard,
understood. And there's that connection not
from a manipulative sort of place, but from an authentic
place. And I just realized I need these
skills and I didn't. I wasn't really thinking at that
time I was going to leave the law and go into coaching and
mentoring. I just felt like I really need

(09:14):
an upgrade here. And so there is a big difference
between coaching and mentoring what Ioffer to people because
coaching is like, I know that like you have all the answers
inside of you. If you're my clients, a coach
and that so I'm going to be asking you powerful questions.
I'm going to be reflecting things back that I've heard.

(09:35):
It's going to be noticing your body language.
The words that you use may be asking meanings.
I might have an intuition that Ishare with you, but I'm always
handing things back to you and you're deciding as a client in a
coaching situation and what to do with it.
It's really empowering. It's very empowering because you

(09:55):
feel like a pretty self empowered person too.
And I know personally that I, I do want to evolve and move
forward, but someone pointing their finger and telling me what
I have to do doesn't work very well with me.
No, no. And so to to be with someone and
to hold this huge judgment free,unconditionally loving space for
them where they have the opportunity to be explored and

(10:17):
heard. But they are in the driver's
seat can be a very new experience for a lot of people,
and it's like my pleasure to provide that experience.
But I know that whatever they come up with or whatever they
get to in each coaching conversation is much better than
anything I could tell them. Yeah, because I think once we

(10:38):
know how to tap into ourselves and listen to ourselves and
trust ourselves, no one knows this better than us.
Sometimes we just need that reminder that freedom, a few
tools to access that. So I love that empowering piece
that you use and also it's so interesting the different
degrees that are out there, especially things like lawyers

(10:58):
and doctors that are these high level, high states positions
where you're helping people in serious need.
Many times how important it is to be able to listen bit yet all
of us can identify in our lives.Most likely maybe not, but I
would say most people can identify in their lives a health

(11:21):
practitioner, a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer.
That was not a good listener. They had all the answers, you
know, answers in quotes, but they had no idea who had to
listen to what people actually needed, which is the most How
can you help people properly if you don't know how to listen?
So I think that's so interestingthat when you had the intuition

(11:43):
and understanding, it was necessary, but two, you had to
go find that somewhere else. I think that is really speaks a
lot to what's happening in so many of these spaces where they
educate you on the science and the practices and the resources
and the laws and rules, but theydon't necessarily tap into

(12:07):
those. Those what's the word?
I'm looking for those non scientific skills.
There's a word. I'm just not crapping it.
Right. That's right.
Words. And you don't always find each
other either. But yeah, you're not that.
They talk a lot about, oh, that liberal arts education.
Well, that liberal arts education is going to talk with

(12:28):
arts and humanities and teach you how to communicate and
relate to people. And if you can't communicate and
relate to people, then you. Yeah.
So I think it's so interesting that process, but that you were
willing to do that and have whatyou that has LED you to, you
know, since then. You just never know where these
things that you tap into are going to take you on this
journey that. We're on.

(12:49):
Yeah. And I'm not going to give myself
the whole credit. I have some really cool friends.
I I believe that, you know, likeminded people sort of gravitate
to each other. And so one of my dear friends
got a diploma in coaching and mentoring, loved it, was very
successful with it and just really felt like it's great.
But there's no heart there. They really don't teach you

(13:10):
that. They talk about it from the
head, but they don't really giveyou that advance a feeling of
just being held and understood and then you're in the space
where you can share anything andis confidential.
I mean, it's not. There's no confidential laws
with being a coach, but I just don't take notes.
There's nothing. You can.
Find any, any notes I take, I RIP up afterwards.
I just use it to help me during the coaching conversation so

(13:33):
that you know, my clients are protected.
But I was really lucky with that.
And I had another friend who became a like a certified
counselor and she felt the same thing.
And so she's both of them offered those, you know, got
registered was they were able tooffer these diplomas and and
we're kind of like knitting me this would.

(13:54):
Be really good for. You, Arlene, and I will.
I would have to tell you that I did have my head of a little bit
of a dark place for a while. I thought I was way too good for
that. I had, I had, I had a degree
from Emory University and I had a law degree and you know, like
I was hot stuff or something. I didn't need anything else.
But they, you know, after about three years of really looking at

(14:14):
myself, I'm like, let's be reflected back to me here.
And best thing I, best thing I ever did.
Best thing, yeah. Yeah, well, it goes to, you
know, it's academia is an interesting place.
My husband's worked in higher Edacademia his whole career.
So and so it's an interesting space because when you Emory
isn't excellent school, like a really, really, really high

(14:37):
level academic institution and you take that with a lot degree,
not to mention the money you spend and time you put into
that. I can understand, especially the
young age when you come out, do you feel like based on these
elite places I've been and this money that I've spent and time
that I've invested, I should have all the tools and sometimes
life will be like, oh, but wait a minute, there's more.

(14:57):
So, you know, I always, you know, really nice to say that
to. Me, but I.
Think it happens a lot though. I think it happens a lot and
that's not uncommon, but continuing to be a learner, I
mean, I think that's the most important thing we can do.
And listening and being a good listener and being listened to,

(15:17):
that is all part of the that being heard about our being
valued, you know, I mean, out, you know, supporting each other
in community. There's so much value in that.
It's tremendous because most people, if you're talking to
them also doing is thinking about what they're going to say
next. Yeah, hold that space of I have
no clue where this conversation is going to go, but I'm too.

(15:39):
I'm shuffling. Anything that's about me in my
life is over there and I'm goingto just be here with you and I'm
going to be the best coach or best mentor that I can be.
It, it can be like a you can feel it.
And I have felt it, you know, aswhen I'm coached or when I
mentored. And I think it's one of the most
incredible spaces that we can give to people.
And you know, you don't have to do that much a lot of that.

(16:02):
You need the skills, but the being there like that in itself
is transformational, I think forus as the facilitators and for
the people that we're with. Yeah, there's a lot of power in
learning to be present and learning to be mindful in
moments. Absolutely.
Well, I'm going to touch on thatone little bit later, but before
we do that, talk to me about confidently setting boundaries

(16:23):
with your time with, you know, you talked about earlier
choosing when we choose, that means we're setting a boundary
on our time that we're going to give to ourself, that we're
going to allow space, that we'regoing to say no to some things
so we can say yes to some other things.
Talk to me about, you know, you seem to understand that pretty
early on. I'm going to make a space for

(16:44):
this is that is that something that's come naturally to you or
talk to me about your journey with that.
I mean when? I first started practicing law.
I really had to learn the hard way.
I didn't end up in. I was there for 12 years, but I
just, I didn't have the boundaryskills and other skills to
handle. It I.
Mean I came from a middle class suburb in Louisville, KY and I

(17:06):
was a divorce attorney. That's when I learned when I got
out of practice in law by you really have to, to learn from
other attorneys. And and when I went out on my
own, there was divorced in childcustody and I got appointed
sometimes by the domestic relations court to be a guardian
at light and representing children, you know, when the
parents will, you know, had drugor alcohol or other problems and
they didn't want either one to be the primary custodian.

(17:29):
And so I didn't have clear strong boundaries in the early
part of my law practice. And I was really affected by the
negativity in the profession by the judges, by how other
attorneys behaved and were allowed to behave and get away
with it by the judges. And it sort of really bowled me
over. And my, my journey of beginning

(17:52):
to work with all this kind of more spiritual stuff actually
was when I got divorced when my son was almost three, he
developed ADHD pretty severely. And I went on a journey to heal
him. Yeah.
As his mom. And I think the universe was
there to help me heal myself. So I did, you know, I think it
had encouraged strong and appropriate boundaries with a

(18:15):
child or if you have children, to me has been the biggest
learning experience because withhim, you know, for years, I
wanted to make sure he didn't feel it.
Anything, they just have to havethose experiences I did.
And what I learned in the process is that he came on this
planet just like I did, to learncertain skills and abilities and
lessons. And if I didn't let him fail, he

(18:37):
was not going to be able to makeit in the world.
And I had to learn to step back.And those hardest thing I ever
did as a mom, but I did it because I knew in my heart of
hearts that what I was doing wasnot OK.
It was really actually arrogant.It was trying to make my life
easier. But in the meantime, he needed
to learn that. He had to stand up for him
himself, take care of himself, and he, if he, if he failed to

(18:58):
have it, pick himself back up. And so a lot of my lessons in
learning how to set those clear,strong and appropriate
boundaries was from our interactions and the pain of
letting all that stuff go. It was the best thing I ever
did. But but as as a parent it was
not easy. Yeah, no, it it is.
I think that's so normal for us as parents.
We've got three. I've got 3 grown daughters now.

(19:19):
But yeah, you that learning to like you got to let them learn
how to fly or if you're going tohave they're going to have any
chance, they've got to understand what consequences are
where you're there to kind of guide them through.
OK, this happened. How are we going to respond now?
What are some, you know, tools and resources, But it's hard.
You want to protect them from everything.
And especially when they're dealing with something hard

(19:41):
already, I think that instinct goes into play even more.
But the best thing we can do forthem is actually model, you
know, this is how we, you know, speak up for ourselves.
This is how we take care of ourselves.
I'm going to take care of myselfright now.
I want you to know that that's OK so that when you're an adult,

(20:01):
you'll feel emboldened to do that as well.
I mean, there's I mean, it's if you look back on it, you're
like, yeah, it was the right thing.
But in the moment, it is very difficult.
So thank you for sharing that. I think it's so important that
we just. Own that yeah, I didn't really
say it in those words too at thetime, but you know he's really
with my I have two ex husbands with my second one.

(20:23):
They're really really close and so he knows he can call us
anytime and he doesn't live thatfar away from us.
And so it's only later in his life like he's coming back and
asking he's like like for money he's doing really well
financially or you know he wanted to have something in
mind. I'm like, no, I'm really going
to say no now. Just no explanation.

(20:44):
And he just sort of looks at me like because he knows that he
can do it himself, but sometimeshe's just funny.
As an adult, he still sort of tests those waters and I just
have to laugh. It's like, no, you're a grown up
man, you can handle this and he can.
He's very successful and I'm really proud of him.
But it's, it's funny. Mothers and sons, I don't know.

(21:07):
I'm sure mothers and daughters have this stuff too, but.
Yeah, no, they do. And I thank you for those
examples because I what I've learned too is adult parenting,
adult children is a whole new Ave. of figuring out how to show
up, when to show up, when to pull back, when to be there.
I mean, it is a whole new. And we, you know, with us, we'd

(21:28):
be like, OK, this one needs us this way, this one needs us this
way, this one needs us this way.And we even have to have
different kinds of boundaries with each of them because based
on what they asked and what theyneed and what season they're in
because that's yeah, it's a whole different ball game.
So thank you for all of that, because I think sometimes we can

(21:49):
feel really lonely and isolated when we're trying to make these
decisions for ourselves and figure out what's best to know.
Like, no, we all got to figure it out.
We've all got it. We've all got to take this
journey and, and, and there's, and you're not alone in this as
you figure this out too. And there's resources out there
to help you and support you. All right, taking care of our

(22:10):
emotional health as much as our physical health, our mental
health, so much of what you do is that.
So talk to me about your journeyin making all of those
connections and how these feed off of each other and the
importance there is to tending to them.
And you use a lot of different modalities within this, but talk
to me about your journey and learning about that.

(22:34):
Well, I've been in like a mentoring group for a very long
time and that's been very, very helpful.
So I always have like this groupof like minded souls that I can
come together with. And I really recommend that for
everybody because it's really being the lone wolves and trying
to do it by ourselves in the world.
I think it's a really rough roadand I don't think it works that
well. But if we come together with a
group of like minded souls, it can be friends in our community,

(22:55):
friends we find online because we have a common interest.
And as long as it's a positive and uplifting experience and not
someplace where people just cometo complain and moan in how
horrible their life is. Because then we're, we're
focusing on what we don't want to have in our lives.
Let's not do that. It, it can be really, really
helpful and it can help us to move forward, especially where
we hear, well, this person did this and this person did that

(23:18):
and, and we know that we're not alone.
You know, you don't have to get the answers from them, but just
know we're not alone. And that's what's what's been a
real help for me, you know, justto have some mentoring groups
that I'm a part of where I know that no matter what I'm going
through, I'm not alone. And another thing that I really
learned through this and, and just in my own experience, and I

(23:41):
see it in a lot of people that Iwork with, is that there's this
thing out there in humanity thatI'm, I'm selfish and I should
feel guilty if I love myself, God forbid, and I feel of my own
cup with love. And to me that just, if you
really step back, it's so counterintuitive.

(24:02):
If I could, that's the nice. That's what it is, Yep.
And The thing is, is that when we fill ourselves up with love
and we share the overflow of that love with other people,
we're not going to go through the silly cycle where we're I'm
not judging it, it just, you know, it just seems like it is a
silly cycle where we it's not helpful.
It's like, OK, I'm giving and giving and giving and giving me

(24:24):
my cup is run dry. Now I'm getting frustrated and
angry and maybe I lash out at somebody.
Then I feel guilty and horrible about myself for doing it.
And then I go back into being someone who over gives, who's a
doormat and feels totally drained and doesn't have
anything to give. So when we go through that
cycle, we're hurting both ourselves and the other people.

(24:45):
If we're filling ourselves up with love, we don't really need
anything from the other people that we're loving.
And we're coming. There's a whole person and that
changes everything. And one of the ways that I found
to do this is, is that I think Ifeel very strongly as a matter
of fact, that we all have these skills where if a friend of ours

(25:07):
is telling us all the things that are going wrong in their
life, but it's really just it's us talking.
This is our stuff, but we're hearing it from us.
Then we would know how to champion them.
We would know how to support them.
We would know what to say to them.
We would encourage them. We would say we love them or
they're from them. And if they really had their
head of a dark place, we, we give them some tough love in, in
the best way we could. So we already have those skills,

(25:30):
we don't have to learn it from anywhere else, we just have to
give ourselves permission to turn around and give that to
ourselves, no matter how uncomfortable it feels.
Practice makes permanent. And the more we do that, the
more we acknowledge ourselves. For every little small step we
take forward with filling ourselves up with self-care and
self love, the easier it becomes, the more natural it is

(25:51):
for us. Absolutely.
It's that retraining your nervous system because we start
getting scripts, especially as little girls about how we're
supposed to show up and be nice and tape everybody else first.
Otherwise, you know, putting people yourself versus selfish
and and you're exactly, I've said this before too.
It is counterintuitive. Nobody wins when we show up

(26:11):
irritable, tired, feeling like amartyr.
Then it we go into codependency and enmeshment to try to find
our value through affirmation there.
And it's a terrible cycle to be in that nobody wins where we
actually are told from the get go, take good care of yourself
so that you can show up refreshed and authentic and

(26:34):
whole and be the healthiest version of yourself for you and
everybody else around you. Your mood is different, you feel
refreshed, you feel rejuvenated,and you're surrounding yourself
with people that value that as well.
You talk about finding your tribe.
You're going to draw in and attract those kinds of people
with that kind of energy that want the best for you.

(26:57):
But there's so many impacts on our mental, emotional, physical
health when we don't put those things into play, you know, and
it's just, it's a trickle down effect.
And if we just can address it upfront and get rid of that
idea, but yeah, you got it. You've got to keep practicing it
because it's not the first thingwe're taught.
And so we have to train our brain, our nervous system be

(27:18):
like, no, no, no, no, no, we're going to do this now.
This is what's actually healthy in and best for me and stay with
it and keep choosing that the interest our inner knowing.
We're also told not to trust ourselves as it when we're very
young, especially as little girls and women and learning
that those cues to let us know what we need are there to help

(27:39):
us. They're our bodies aren't
against us, they're for us. They're trying just trying to
give us wisdom and insight to what it is we need.
So viewing it from that aspect will help us to make sure we're
eating all the parts of us that need attention.
Yeah. And I'd like to add something to
that, you know, because I can feel like a lot to do by
ourselves, but we also feel likea lot just to do with like

(28:00):
minded people. But there's another way we can
do it that can be maybe easier and more supportive and not like
a red flag for other people. Like we're sure what are you
doing? And that's like if let's say
you'd like to you've always wanted to learn how to throw
pottery, or you'd like to learn how to paint or draw, or you
want to learn how to play the guitar, or there's something
musical, or you'd like to garden.
You know, maybe there's a GardenClub.

(28:22):
Maybe there's there's got to be some group of people that like
to do something that you would like to learn or already like to
do. You're just coming together with
them and maybe it's once a week and you're enjoying that
activity together that's going to fill you up with love.
You're doing something you love and enjoy, but it's just, it's
not going to be like a little red flag for everybody that
you're different. But you're finding a way that

(28:45):
that is an easier way than just how do I do this by myself or
even some on the group? If we, if we don't have like
someone that's really there all the time helping us, it's a
really beautiful way to to beginto give that to ourselves.
It doesn't feel so daunting. Yeah, yeah, that's a great way
to look at that. That's a great, yeah.
And I talk about it and we'll talk about, you know, the find

(29:06):
those activities that nourish you.
What is that thing that lights you up?
What's that thing that you haven't engaged with in a while
but brings you a lot of energy? And yeah, I, I think and taking
the pressure off of it being something and just go do
something you enjoy rather than I've got to go do this and it's
supposed to give me this result.Just find those things that, you

(29:27):
know, and taking the pressure off that too.
That's a really good point. Thank you for that.
All right, how we can support ourselves and other women in
living unapologetically. We are the say sorry champions
of the world so many times. And it's like, you know, take,
you know, really feeling empowered to show up as our

(29:50):
authentic selves and bring otherwomen along with us.
Talk to me about your journey with us.
I think the best thing that we can do starting as, you know,
someone who's been through a life, we all have been through
trials and tribulations and challenges and ups and downs
moments, is that when we sort ofget something like what, what

(30:11):
we're talking about, we both sort of get this, you know, we
can, we can hold the space and model that for others.
And also it's just like we can sort of like shout it out in a
way energetically. This is so amazing.
When I practice this, when I, when I, when I love myself, you
know, through the arts that I do, through the music I do,
through the yoga that I do, It'sjust what I do now.

(30:33):
I, I show myself, I love myself.I'm with this lovely community
and it's so amazing. And then when we sort of shout
that out to the ethers, it's like other people in the whole
world can feel it and find it when they're ready for it.
When they're like, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do. And it'll be like in that kind
of lower ether area of of thoughts and feelings of

(30:53):
humanity and there'll be new things for people to grab on to
to go wow, I could learn to playthe guitar I already played.
Wouldn't be fun to be in a groupof people who just sort of
played around the guitar together every week, whatever it
is. And that would really like my
heart. That would be so much fun.
And you find a group, you know, just look around and Craigslist

(31:14):
or whatever it is or yes, aroundto some friends.
And, and we, we model the behavior that we, when we learn
stuff and we sort of like shut it out to the universe.
You know, this is so cool, this is so amazing.
You've got to try this. That can really help people.
You know, every time we learn something, every time we have
one of those kind of experiences, I mean, we all have

(31:36):
little experiences of filling our heart up with love every
single day. Yeah, maybe we just have this
really cool 32nd conversation with a checkout lady at the
grocery store or with a friend or with just a little passing
thing. It's just like, oh, that's nice.
And if we really acknowledge that and appreciate that and
feel it, it's it we're helping other people to ground in the

(31:57):
screen set as well, especially when we're like, wow, that was
really cool. I'm not going to forget this.
And we acknowledge ourselves forbeing fully present in that that
moment, recognizing it and enjoying it.
Yeah, really good stuff there. Thank you so much.
And I think, too, when people see us living that way, they
also want to know, what are you doing?

(32:17):
I mean, because it comes off of us, the way our aura, the way we
carry ourselves, our mood, that's also attractive to people
as well, I think. But I love that talking to, you
know, that sharing with people and being open with people and,
and letting them know like you can make those choices too.
And, you know, let me know if you'd like some resources or

(32:39):
have you thought about this? I mean, I just love the way you
approach that. Thank you so much for that.
All right, the importance of setting and coming back to your
why and your values and what youchoose to do and who you choose
to surround yourself with, who you decide to work with.
Talk to me about the place and the the part that they play in

(33:03):
helping you decipher those things.
I just really feel like it's so important to be flexible and
adaptable and, and that what I endeavor to practice is always
to greet myself and you every day and every moment and the
people that I'm seeing every dayand every moment because you're,
you're one way right now. But if I assume you're going to

(33:23):
be the same way the next time I meet you, then I'm sort of
putting you in a box. And if I always assume that I'm
going to be one way because thisis the way I am now that I'm
putting myself in a box. And so I think it's really
important to just drop a lot of expectations with which are
judgments and let our values, wedo have core values.
But I really think that I love that can just flow like I gave

(33:44):
you authenticity, compassionate,courageous and loyal.
Tomorrow I might choose something else.
I might choose like unconditional love, worthiness,
calm assurance. And I don't know, something else
will come to me, some other sacred quality.
Because we have all those sacredqualities available to us.
We can embody them all. And so I really feel it's
important to go with the flow and, and to listen where I where

(34:08):
I get myself in most trouble. If I really, I have this feeling
like don't do this, Arlene and Isort of override it.
And then I have to go through this whole field, through the
consequences of it. I'm like, I knew it from the
beginning. I didn't listen.
How many times am I going to do that?
But don't beat. It's not important.
We don't want to beat ourselves up for that.
Yeah, this is another mistake. It's an opportunity to learn and

(34:30):
grow. But you know, when we listen to
our own hearts knowing, when we listen to our intuition, even if
the head is saying, but you've got to do this, you know, step
back. And sometimes the best thing to
do is just say, you know, I'm not going to make a decision for
2448 hours. I'm I'm just going to let things
flow a little bit because sometimes we get into urgency,

(34:52):
like we have to do something now.
Yeah, yeah, I was talking to a aguest yesterday about the power
of the pause and taking a momentis so important.
Another guest that I had on a couple seasons ago, she has that
like kind of unwritten rule in her life where she says yes or
no to nothing. She's like, give me some time to

(35:13):
think about. And she in her head gives
herself a minimum 24 hours to consider, go back, think on it.
How's it sitting with me? What's my calendar look like?
Whatever. What other commitments have I
made? Yeah, that importance of.
And I love what you said about not putting people in boxes
because we get this list and it it's from society, from culture,

(35:36):
from a very young age of what isexpected, how we'll show up in
the world versus, you know, what's actually true of us.
And that allows us to be authentically.
And that which really goes nice into talk to me about living out
of your own expectations versus others.

(35:56):
You, you have done that, you aredoing that.
You have learned through life and processes and journeys and
mistakes to do that. And you also really are
passionate about supporting other, you know, women and
people with that. So talk to me about, you know,
and also it communicate. I think the other part of it
expectations is, you know, living out of our own, figuring

(36:18):
out who we authentically are andwhich are values and can really
help inform. But then we got to communicate
them too. We can't assume that people just
know and and if we don't want them to define this a certain
way, then we have to like, no, no, no, no.
Actually, my expectation for this is actually that.
But talk to me about what you'velearned about those, about

(36:41):
expectations I. Really like the word, I mean, I
guess I should word clear because everyone uses it in a
different way because from the expectations or judgments and
and things that kind of like this in a little, you know, I
like to notice when I'm having expectations and maybe reframe
it and do it in a different way.So it just feels to me that we

(37:03):
get ourselves in trouble when we're, when we try to think
everything out, make pros and con lists, we're all in our
head, which we go around and around and around in circles
like a little hamster and the wheel running really fast and
getting nowhere. If we stop and breathe.
And we like ground. I like to ground.
Like I pretend like I'm a tree. There's there's roots of light
from my heart down my body, out my feet into the heart of the

(37:26):
planet. So I'm connected heart to heart
with her. And I'm really so present here
now and you know, all the way upto source.
So there's like this lovely connection and really be fully
present here now in my heart andnotice if I'm contracting and
allow myself to stand out. So there's plenty of room for
making decisions and moving forward.

(37:47):
And then really, you know, feel into, you know, I would love to
now, you know, how may I best serve, you know, in it.
Sometimes there's not a definitive yes or no.
And sometimes what we just have to do is like this feels like
the best thing right now. And I always visualize it is
like we've gotten so far in our life and we're standing on the

(38:07):
top of a Cliff. There's this beautiful skies out
there, but it looks like we'd step off the Cliff.
We're going to fall into the abyss.
But I feel, I don't know, whatever the way you want to
say, it's Spirit God, the universe said, if I take a step
forward, you know, we have to dothe work on the ground.
If I take a step forward, also just take one step, how does
that feel underneath me? I'm being held and then I can

(38:29):
feel into that and then what's the next step from there?
And if I need to maybe vary it alittle bit, I will do that, but
I don't have to. I, I stopped trying to figure
everything out. Yes, I do have goals of, of, of
things I'm working on. But within that, I really feel
that when we have that adaptability and flexibility and
we don't put that pressure on ourselves that I have to know my

(38:51):
6 month, my one year, my five year plan of how I'm going to be
different and what I'm going to do.
And I don't know, she's like that.
Yeah. Well, yeah, it can be really
restricting when you try to tie yourself into a plan.
And life is nuanced and things happen that we don't see coming.
And so if we get so locked into something that leaves no room to

(39:13):
adapt, when we have to be adaptable and, and, and, and
give ourselves the space so thatwe're not frozen when that
unexpected thing comes because we're so locked into this one
way of being. Right, Yeah, we are, we might
have like those horse blinders on that this is the only way
forward when all these other opportunities are coming there

(39:35):
that are really like, that's whyI like to call my, my business
is jewel consultants because they're all different sides of
the diamond, but they all work together to form that beautiful
jewel. Yeah, or that beautiful crystal
or stone or whatever it is. And so it might be an amazing
opportunity. This is just another part of the
jewel of the overall experience that we're having is perfectly

(39:56):
within and what we're seeking tobe more of and to accomplish in
our lives. And if we have those blinders
on, they can only be one way then then we've missed a
beautiful opportunity. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
Thank you for that. That was so good.
All right, Accepting the layeredaspects of ourselves, all those
parts of us, all those pieces that make up who we are.

(40:17):
Some we love, some we don't. Decisions we wish we wouldn't
have made, you know, all those things.
I really feel like to get to a place of peace and contentment
and really knowing your value, you've got to find a way to to
come to grips with all of that in a very non judgmental way.
And something I've learned over the last five years, especially

(40:38):
when I really got serious about getting OK with my layers, was
getting being curious rather than judgmental.
It makes it enables me to be kinder to myself, which then
enables me to be kinder and lessjudgmental of others as well.
So, so talk to me about your layers journey and how how
that's felt for you. Well.

(40:59):
I want to acknowledge you because curiosity is just a
beautiful sacred quality. Because when we're curious,
you're right, I wonder, you know, we're wondering and we're
curious. It helps us to allow all that
judgment to fall away. And that's a a great thing for
all of your audience to know andto work with.
That's a beautiful sacred quality.
I sort of work with acceptance. Like I love it and accept myself

(41:21):
as I am right here, right now. Warts and all, I know there's
some ugly bits under there. I know there's some beautiful
shiny bits and I'm choosing not to judge it.
And, and basically that's a partof saying that all the mistakes
I've made are just opportunitiesto learn and grow and that we
can play with them on a daily basis.
If we've made a humding or even a small mistake, it's like, OK,

(41:43):
I made this mistake. It's an opportunity to learn and
grow. How could I do that differently
next time? Something because there's it.
Maybe not the exact same thing, but since we didn't learn from
it, we have more learning there.The situation will come up again
so we can visualize and feel ourselves.
Like if something similar comes up again, how could I handle it

(42:03):
from a more expanse of loving space and really feel and
visualize it now and even go to sleep with that visualization.
So it'll work with us in the dream state.
And then when we're, when we have something similar come up
again, we have a tool kit that we can use.
We might, it might be too havingtoo fast to think about it, but
we already have it like in our hearts.

(42:25):
And if we make that a practice, then you know, it's, it's more
of a fast track to stop judging ourselves for all those
mistakes. We can't go back and change the
past, but we can and use it as alearning tool for the future.
And you know, the greatest inventors, the people that did
the most amazing things on this planet throughout all time and

(42:45):
everything beyond even what was in recorded history, they've
made more mistakes, they've had more failures.
They fall another face more times than we have even tried.
And they had a different attitude about it.
And that's the attitude that I'mtalking about in your curiosity
and wonder. It is is another facet of that
attitude. Yeah, I mean, and I think it
keeps us from living in that fear space too, that fear of

(43:09):
seeing things as opportunities rather than failures.
I mean, failure as a word, I think it gets thrown around in a
way that it's like, OK, it was it a failure or was it just a
step in the direction that I needed to go through to get to
the space I'm in now? So I really think we even have
to reframe the way we think about that word and what it and

(43:31):
how we handle that and and look at that.
Yeah, in a way that I love it isthat it's like a mentor or
someone you can hear things thousands of times and then
someone says it a little bit differently and you you no
longer get in your head if you get in the heart and the penny
drops. And so maybe another way to look
at it is I came in this lifetimeto learn certain things.

(43:52):
And so I'm going to have challenges and obstacles and
things that don't feel pleasant.And I can either push them away
or and do it kicking and screaming and throwing a little
tantrum on the ground like I'm 3.
Or, you know, I can sort of begin to handle it the way we've
been talking about. And it's not always easy just
kind of looking to fall on our face and forget.
And, you know, when we, you know, it's like, OK, that that

(44:13):
can work. But what I like to also tell
myself is that that's not who I am.
I'm a soul. I'm a spirit having a human
experience. Yeah.
My thoughts, my feelings, those are not who I am.
And what I, what we can also tell ourselves is, well, that's
not like me. That's not like me.
I'll do better the next time or we can tell them ourselves.

(44:34):
That's more like me. I'll have more, more of that.
So we're working sort of with that positive affirmation, law
of attraction stuff without taking out the the what we used
to do in older religions. You like those false.
We have this bloody back and you're suffering to be holy and
all that stuff. Yeah.
So yes, it's a better way to do it.

(44:55):
Absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah, Agree 100%.
And I, you know, I really like the way you laid that out that
it was really good. And I think it just again, it
takes away that fear piece and, and, and because fear can be
such a restrictive thing for us and, and keep us stuck in
spaces. But when we can approach it with

(45:16):
that way, it just, it just creates a lot more freedom for
us. Yeah, you know, just a lot more
freedom. All right, in living out, feel,
finding empowerment, embracing layers, which which you do, you
have done. You do you've, you've, you've
it's evident in your our discussion today in your life's

(45:36):
work. Talk to me about how that's
impacted your relationship with yourself as well as your
relationship with other people. You are very cognitive of the
power of community and and connecting with those that are
like minded than support and love us.
So so talk to me about how that you've evolved into that.

(45:58):
That's something that you have avery clear understanding of.
Well, I think there's some synchronicity in the universe.
I went to this well, I was looking for a long time, you
know, it felt like a long time. I mean, I ended up going to this
conference in Mount Shasta and wandering around in this cute
little store. And I opened this door and then

(46:18):
it was this like flyer of of this mentoring group that I'm a
part of that I've been a part offor years.
And so I just sort of like, oh, this seems cool.
And I ended up just like heart singing moment, you know, fell
into it. But I had a lot of, you know, I
had, it's really interesting when I was still practicing law
in Cleveland, OH, I was sharing this space with another attorney

(46:40):
and I'm never there at night. But my ex-husband had my son or
son and I had some work to do. So I came in the office was like
7:00, no one was there. I got this phone call and this
woman became like my best friend.
And anyway, she had no money, but she was very much like a
spiritual, my first spiritual teacher and didn't have

(47:02):
attachments. She was an astrologer and but
she didn't do it the way most people did it.
She was just, she did it so thatwe could step into more of our
own knowing and be more of our best selves.
And so I took a lot of free readings from her in exchange
for just getting a dissolution from a husband that had been
gone for years because she wanted to remarry.
It was a really pretty easy thing.

(47:22):
And you know, I just feel like she was like a blessing that
sort of fell in my life. And, you know, somehow I was
there and she made the phone call and I picked up the phone.
And there's we have those moments of just beautiful
synchronicity if we're open to them to help us and we take
advantage of them just to step forward.
And I am really grateful for theones that I've had in my life.
And I know that we all have. And I'm sure I've missed a bunch

(47:44):
of them, but I'm grateful for the ones that I actually took
advantage of. Yeah, absolutely.
And the impacts of those relationships have.
And I think too though that was a great example of there was an
exchange and through that exchange you found ways to work
together and that created this long term connection.
And I think that's so beautiful too.

(48:04):
What's possible and what can unfold out of that?
You, you seem to have a, a really strong, like accountable
inner confidence, like you own what you've done and the
mistakes, but also we're very confident moving forward.
Where do you when do you feel like you've got to that space

(48:25):
of, of just being able to be present like that?
Well, that's very kind of you. I always feel like I'm a work in
progress. You know, I think if people say
that they get there and they're like, you know, they're like
really full of themselves. It's like, whoa, that's the kind
of person like, thank you very much, but no, thank you.
So yes, I have made a lot of progress, you know, and I'm very

(48:46):
grateful for it, for the coachesand the mentors that I've had to
help me move forward because I don't think I could have, I know
I could have gotten this far in this life by myself and just to
have the, the, the, the knowing that, that, that I needed to
connect and work with these people in these groups.
So, but I don't ever feel like I've gotten there, you know, and
there's always moments where I make a mistake and I have to

(49:09):
backtrack and really learn from that, from that mistake less and
less to the school of Hard Knocks.
But it still comes knocking every down there.
You know, there's no, it's not like I'm like made it somewhere.
So I just, I'm grateful for how far I've come and and I'm I know
that I'm always a work in progress.

(49:30):
Yeah, yeah. And, and I think too, that
having that confident humility, and I think that's the thing
that we don't talk about enough,confidence, humility is a really
beautiful thing. It's like I own who I am, I'm
authentic, this is who I am, andalso I know that I'm continuing
to grow. I think that people are drawn to

(49:53):
people like that we because there is a a really empowering,
empathetic presence about that. It's very comforting to other
people. Have you found that to be the
case, that you're kind of drawn to other people that carry
themselves that way too? Yeah, the ones that are a few
steps ahead of me then say, Arlene, you need to look at this

(50:16):
part of you is not so pretty. I can remember when I was early
in my life, I just I had a person and it was close to me in
my family that I just every timeI saw them, my blood would boil.
They would trigger me because I thought they were selfish and
arrogant and self-righteous and know it all.
And I finally got this message like, don't you think you ought

(50:37):
to turn around and look at yourself to see where that's in
you? Otherwise you wouldn't be being
triggered. So that can be that can be.
It was very humbling. Very grateful for that because
it helped me to let go of a lot of defensiveness I would have if
someone was talking to me and telling me to do stuff that I
didn't want to do or share stuffI didn't want to share.
To be in a place where I could bring more of a sense of humor

(51:00):
or maybe remove myself or just say, hey, I'm not, I'm not going
to talk about that, but not haveany reaction.
So I think we get a lot of our lessons from what other people
nearer to us. And I'm always on the lookout
for that If if it it helps to keep me humble.
But yeah, yeah, I guess that's what I felt this year.

(51:21):
I don't know what your question was, but that's what came out.
That no, that was perfect. That's exactly what I was, what
I was. Don't know.
It was beautiful. And I think, you know, it's
interesting whenever I've something I've learned to do and
I have learned. I have not always said it, but I
have learned, especially the last few years, is if the
defensiveness is coming up in me, that's the clue.

(51:42):
There's something going on with me that isn't, you know, So
what's going on there? What's bringing up the
defensiveness? Why?
Yet it's there's a difference between feeling like anger,
righteous anger that motivates you to do something or make a
change versus a defensiveness that just puts you on garden.
I've had to learn to like get curious about that.

(52:04):
Why, why did that set you off somuch?
And my husband's actually great.He's like, why did that set you
off so much? I feel like, you know, and I
will do the same for him. Like maybe we need to take a
closer look at that. But it's a good it's a good
practice to have in place to step back and and keeps again,
keeps you humble, keeps you learning, keeps you aware of

(52:26):
we're in process. There's two, there's two sides
to everything in the other side is sometimes the reason that we
get defensive where all this stuff comes up for us is someone
is either projecting us or they're trying to like suck our
energy out or dump in our energy, feel a lot of negativity
because our boundaries aren't strong enough.
And so that might be like that might be like I need to remove

(52:48):
myself from this situation. I need to be recalibrate myself
to love. And so it doesn't always have to
be that we're triggered. I mean, we could be triggered in
that process because it feels like, you know, crap, but it not
necessarily within us except that we didn't allow our
boundaries to drop. Yeah.
That's a very good point. That's a very good point.

(53:09):
Thank you for that. That was really.
Yeah, that was very intuitive. All right, we are down.
We're wrapping up here. Name 5 activities that nourish
you. Five.
Well, yoga definitely nourishes me.
I love going up to the Hot Springs and in Colorado there's

(53:29):
some wonderful ones in the mountains.
My son, his wife and my grandsonwent up there over New Year's
Eve and Oh my God, it's wonderful.
I love being up high for some reason, just like, and even
with, you know it when it's a little bit warm around, just
just taking some time and just saying, OK, I've had it and just
taking a ride up the mountains and wherever I get to, I get to,

(53:49):
I get out. There's always the Colorado
River coming down somewhere you can just be around.
And there's something about being at a higher altitude that
just does something for me. So I love being out in nature
and connecting with her. So that's that's a big thing.
How many do I have to come up with a yoga and nature and
there's and I guess music, you know, there's a lot of times

(54:12):
music just or, or just watching some of that just sing something
so beautifully in a way that it just really touches your heart.
Yeah, that, that's, that's one thing that really helps me.
I'm not, I guess I'm getting a getting a little bit of a
wallet. I guess we're just taking care
of myself. You know, I've had to modify my
diet in recent years to stay healthy.

(54:34):
And. Yeah, and being the people that
I love is always is always helpful.
Yeah, yeah. I'm being surrounded by the
people you love and the community and that that's good
for our health. I don't think we give enough
credit to what that does for ourhealth, for our the good, the
serotonin hormones and all thosegood things that it brings up in

(54:55):
us. Thank you so much for that.
And five words on how you hope to feel the next six months. 5
words. Joyful in calm assurance.
Like peaceful, not just regular peace, but like that peace that

(55:19):
is beyond all experience, you know, and just like, and like
harmony, like harmonizing thingsinside of myself, you know, So
they're not fighting anymore. Yeah, many words.
Is that 3/4? What was the last one?

(55:40):
Be a contentment is just coming up.
Just because we have that, it's a choice to be content with
where we're at and what we have and not look outside of
ourselves that I want this, sorry, want that, or, you know,
someone else has blah, blah, blah.
Just to be really content. Yeah, it is.
I think that's a real gift. I think so too.
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much for those,

(56:01):
Arlene. Tell people where they can find
you, follow you how they can work with you.
This will all be on our website at embracinglayers.com on our
resources page. Don't worry, listeners, but
share with us right now and, andall the ways that people can
work with you because I can. I just know from talking to you,
you've got so many tools and resources that can be so many

(56:23):
help, so helpful, so many of ourlisteners.
Yeah, So you can find me at my website, Jewel JEWEL like the
like the Diamond consultancy.comIoffer coaching, mentoring and
within mentoring, Ioffer Soul readings, which is where I work
with cards and I do it online aswell as in person.
But it's another way of of heartconnecting with people to know

(56:46):
what obstacles are there, what challenges are there, what
opportunities are there. And I just find this a really
hard expanding experience, especially for adults, you know,
because the visuals there, the auditories there, the hard stuff
is there. So those three things are what
Ioffer in terms of services on my website.
I also have some really cool videos that are free about
leadership and about being calm and centered.

(57:09):
And I have a, a very large blog where you can get answers to a
whole lot of stuff if you GoogleArlene Cohen Miller.
Cohen is my middle name. You, I'm the only person that
comes up. There's a lot of Arlene Miller.
There's only one Arlene Cohen Miller.
So you'll find all the differentplaces that I am on the

(57:29):
Internet. And if that resonates with you,
great. And you can always contact me,
I'm happy to hear from you. Oh, great.
All right, thank you so much forthat and thank you so much for
your time today. I've enjoyed this conversation
and and just all that you have learned that again, I I'm just
going to think of you as confident.
Humility is the is the phrasing that comes and I think that's

(57:51):
such a beautiful combination. So thank you for how you show up
in the world and how you help others too in your heart for
others to have these tools and resources as well.
I think it's so important that when we you approach it in such
an empowering way, and that's soimportant, it enables other
people to have this within themselves as well.

(58:13):
And it just creates more peace and contentment.
And heaven knows, we could all use more of that.
Oh my gosh. But thank you so much for your
time today. Thank you.
You bet listeners, these resources are available to you
find some peace and contentment in yourself this week sit there

(58:34):
and be mindful take a pause listen to what you take those
blinders off. We can get going down the road.
We get going on our To Do List and all the the busy things that
we have going on in our lives. Take a moment and, and just give
yourself some chance to breathe and open up to, to all the
different things that might be there for you.

(58:54):
And just even just sit in the column.
Just give yourself time and to reset and, and recalibrate.
But we appreciate you being herewith us today.
Take good care of yourselves andhave a great week.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

True Crime Tonight

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Letting Go of Judgment & Embracing Curiosity with Arlene Miller

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

True Crime Tonight

All Episodes

Letting Go of Judgment & Embracing Curiosity with Arlene Miller

Stuff You Should Know