November 19, 2025 • 54 mins
A fog machine, a crow, and a five-episode rule—how did a moody ’90s paperback morph into a CW juggernaut and a masterclass in pivoting to audience taste? We dive into The Vampire Diaries’ messy magic, the Originals’ elegant brutality, and the character shifts that made fans argue, swoon, and stay. Damon’s chaos vs. Stefan’s martyrdom, Elena’s empathy switch, and Caroline’s stealth climb from annoying to indispensable—every arc reveals how trope, timing, and tone drive obsession.
We pull back the curtain on the business, too. LJ Smith’s work-for-hire deal meant the publisher owned the characters, shaping what could be told once the TV machine demanded “more commercial.” That twist didn’t end the story; it rerouted it. From Kindle Worlds to modern Patreon strategies, there are playbooks for creators to keep earning from the worlds they build—even when platforms vanish. We share hands-on tactics: serializing short fiction on Patreon, bundling stories into anthologies, and using newsletters to deliver mainline plots while gating bonuses. One idea becomes multiple products without burning yourself out.
There’s plenty of fandom spice along the way: the New Orleans mythology that made Elijah irresistible, why the witches deserved better, and how a morality switch gave the writers license to go gloriously off-leash. We talk representation gaps and set drama, comfort rewatches and aging immortals, and why gratitude loops—between cast and fans, writers and readers—are the backbone of long-running IP. Whether you’re here for the blood bags or the business model, you’ll leave with sharper instincts about storytelling, rights, and sustaining a creative career.
Love this kind of deep dive into vampires, villains, and the creator grind? Follow the show, share with a friend who still argues Team Damon, and leave a quick review to tell us your endgame.
Want the uncut chaos + bonus episodes? Join us inside the cult at Patreon.com/TheBurnedOutMuse. Or find everything else (Discord, socials, freebies) at linktr.ee/theburnedoutmuse.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Other people's opinions about me are none of my
business.
Yeah.
Hey everybody, welcome to theFeral Fandoms Podcast.
I'm only James.
I really had to think about thatfor a minute.
(00:22):
Gay romance author or author ofgay romances.
Just romance.
Why do we have to clarify it?
I don't know.
But I'm here with Shannon, whoapparently isn't getting enough
attention from me.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Yeah.
I am very greedy with attention.
Give me all your attention.
And that's my intro.
I'm just a greedy little whore.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Today we are going to be talking about something we
actually both know a lot aboutthis time.
The vampire diaries.
The vampire diaries has been abig topic in our family since
the 90s because we both read theactual original four vampire
(01:06):
diaries books in 1992.
I didn't read them in 92.
You read them.
Well, I must not have read themin 92 either, because I read
them, gave them to Kim, and thenI gave them to you.
So you were what, a teenager?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
I was in, I think, sixth grade.
So I was 11, so that's gonna putus at like 99.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That tracks, yeah.
So I didn't read them probablyuntil all no, I didn't read them
until all four were out becauseI binged them.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
And they were so good.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
They were like crack cocaine.
They really were.
And it was like for the time, itwas exactly like that juicy,
like I mean, it had everything.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
There wasn't the arc at the the three, the well, for
me, because I was 11, it was myfirst like will they, won't
they?
Which one and I like Damienstraight out of the gate, me
too, straight out of the gate.
We've been villain lovers for along time.
It's true, but like they're nottoo villainy.
I think we've talked about thatbefore.
SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Yeah, I mean, well, Damon in in the books he was not
as bad as he is in the show.
SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, which one was theConfederate soldier?
Uh Stefan.
SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Was he a Confederate?
I thought he was a Unionsoldier.
SPEAKER_02 (02:23):
One of them, they were on the opposites.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Well, they're supposed to be in Virginia.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
And I think Virginia was a very good idea.
One of them was a Confederatesoldier.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Well, Damon never goes to Damon never goes to war,
does he?
Because I know Jasper Hale fromTwilight was definitely a
Confederate soldier.
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
I wanted it to give me.
Was Damon Salvatore aConfederate soldier?
Yes, Damon was a Confederatesoldier in the American Civil
War.
He joined the Confederate Armyto please his father before
being turned into a vampire in1861.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
That's right.
Okay, that's right.
Because Damon's older.
I knew one of them was.
I wanted it to be Stefan.
I wanted it to be Stefan.
I know.
I know.
But after Damon killed Lexi, Iwas like, not Lexi, bro.
Come on.
Like, talk about like everybodyhates a party girl.
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
They've I know she was just so cool, though.
I'm I was Lexi in the early2000s, and you know what?
I'm glad no vampires killed me.
Because look at me now in mycul-de-sac with my babies.
You can turn a whore into ahousewife.
You can, okay?
Producers, writers, directors.
You could do a little coke, givea BJ in a bathroom, and then
(03:42):
still end up on the golf course.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Did you see that TikTok?
Fuck off.
Where it's like your mom used tobe a hoe and she's like she's
dancing with the broom.
I was like, my kids will neverknow.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
Oh, they will.
Trust me.
My husband doesn't even know thehalf of it.
Thank God he doesn't listen tothis podcast.
Good thing he doesn't support mein all my endeavors.
But the show versus the book,right?
The book is so good.
I should reread them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
I think if we reread them, we would realize that
they're probably really hokey.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Not that good.
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Yeah, they're probably not that good anymore.
I used to watch that stupid teenwitch movie from like the 80s,
and I was obsessed with it whenI was a little kid.
I went back and I watched it andI was like, this is literal
trash.
This is the worst thing I'veever seen in my life.
And so I'm afraid that if I wentback and I read the vampire
(04:44):
diaries now, I would just belike crushed by how not great.
It was more simpler times.
It was simpler times.
But I did find out.
So because I was talking abouthow LJ Smith lost the rights to
her characters or whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah.
We brought that up last.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
We were talking about a different we were on a
different episode when Imentioned it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
On a tangent.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah, on our one of our usual tangents.
And but I learned that sheactually didn't create those
characters.
She was work for hire, whichback in the 90s basically meant
they handed you the stuff andwere like, write this series.
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Oh, and then you write it.
Yeah, I do.
I have I've heard about that inother books.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
So she apparently didn't have the rights to those
characters.
Alloy, who hired her, did.
Hence the reason why they gaveher the opportunity to keep
writing the stories once it gotpicked up by the CW.
But I guess they didn't like herversion.
They decided that they wantedsomething more quote unquote
(05:45):
commercial.
And she wanted more spiritual,more like mystical.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
It was more, it was more, I wouldn't call it like
gothic because it wasn't gothic.
It was like modern gothic.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Because they had like the ravens and the fog and
all the things the first fourepisodes of Vampire Diaries had
before everybody was like, Whatis a crow?
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
A random crow.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
That's why I have my five-episode rule because of the
vampire diaries, because thefirst five episodes are so
embarrassingly bad.
We were gonna watch it no matterwhat, though.
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Because one thing about us, we like to be the
people that if we read the book,we're those assholes that even
if it's trash, especiallyactually, especially if it's
trash, we we love talking shit.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
It's true.
It's true.
We love talking shit during amovie.
You people would hate to see uscome.
Watching movies with us.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Hate it.
But what was that?
What was that thing with thesci-fi theater?
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Oh, Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Yeah, that's us.
SPEAKER_02 (06:51):
We're the silhouette sitting in front of you just
talking shit, and we don't care.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Sometimes you get a good movie theater though, and
you're like, everybody's talkingshit.
Those are the best nights, likeeverybody's in on the joke.
It's so great.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Movie theaters are so dead now.
Oh, yeah.
When I went to see uh what did Ijust Did you see Sinners in the
Theater?
I did see Sinners in Theaters,but that wasn't the last movie I
saw.
Must not have been that goodbecause I don't remember.
Sinners was great.
Sinners was amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
All right, vampire diaries.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Yes.
So yeah, so I found out shedidn't actually own the rights
to those characters.
So she didn't lose them.
But I will say she was great atmonetizing it anyway because
when they basically kicked herto the curb and Julie Pleck
started writing the novels aswell as directing the show, uh,
she just went on Kindle Worldsand started writing fanfiction
(07:43):
of her own characters the wayshe wanted it to go.
So she was still monetizing herwork.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
She just How do you get money from fanfic?
I thought you can't get moneyfor fanfics.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Okay, so Kindle Worlds, which is now gone, it's
defunct, but basically Amazonmade deals with certain like one
of them was the vampire diaries.
I'm trying to think of like Ican't remember the others, but
say, like if somebody wanted towrite like Avatar fanfic or
whatever, they would go to thepublishing house and be like, we
want to license the ability tobasically pay people to write
(08:15):
fanfic for this world orwhatever.
SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
Then then they have to pay them for it, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
No.
You have to pay the publisherfor it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
I'm sure what was happening is that like Amazon
gets a cut, you know, of myroyalties.
I'm sure Amazon was getting acut, the publisher was getting a
cut, and then the author wasgetting whatever pennies were
left over, essentially.
Yeah.
You need to pick it up with yourbutt cheeks.
So I think that's how theymanaged to get away with it.
(08:43):
But honestly, I don't know whythey just I think they got rid
of it when they decided theywere gonna do Kindle Vela, which
is like their serial platform,was their serial platform that's
gone too now.
But like where you would releaselike an episode a week like I do
with like um the night moversand natural bonds.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
But that makes sense to me because you're the author,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
So well, yeah, no, these were all these, yeah, it
was all like original stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
But that's the thing about you being indie.
Nobody can just tell somebodythey can do that.
I think that's because you ownyour your people, which is good
because you made them up in yourbrain.
Yes.
I did, which is crazy.
One of the moms asked me becauseshe knows, oh, I don't know.
I told her I'm a uh I do authorservices.
I don't even know what I do.
And she goes, Oh, are you awriter?
(09:26):
And I was like, No, girl, I canbarely put together a text
message.
I don't know the plot from thebeginning to the end of my text
message.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
I'm so burnt out after doing like that whole 13
Nights of Halloween and like theThey loved it though.
They loved 13 Nights ofHalloween.
Well, I've added like sixstories for the release for the
villains and vigilantesanthology, which is all the
stories kind of like bundledtogether, which means I've
written 80,000 words in the lastthree weeks, which is an entire
book, and I'm so tired.
(10:06):
Back to the vampire daries.
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
Oh shit.
Is it canon that most peoplehate the main character of
Vampire Daries?
Because I did not hate her inthe books.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
I didn't hate her in the books either.
SPEAKER_02 (10:17):
Fucking hated her in the show.
I was like, this whiny,sanctimonious, high horse bitch.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
And what's so funny is I know that it wasn't Nina
Duv that I didn't like because Iloved her as Catherine.
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
I like, yeah.
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
So it's like sometimes you get an actress
playing a part, and you're justlike, I don't like her, not the
part.
I think it wasn't that at all.
Like, I think Nina Dubrov wasgreat.
I think she did an amazing job.
Like, she speaks like what wasit?
Pol what was she speaking in theshow?
Polish?
Like, she's no Czechazolakian.
Like, she's like, she actuallyspeaks the language.
SPEAKER_02 (10:56):
Um, and I thought all of the backstory and the
lore was fantastic, but yeah,I'm just like, she was so she
was so whiny in the show, sowhiny, and so she was like the
morality police.
You're surrounded by vampiresand werewolves and witches.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
That's funny and other shit is that Matt and her
were the exact same person,except Matt got so much shit.
Everybody openly hated Matt,like as a character, they just
hated him.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
If she didn't want vampire dick, she would have
been a fucking vampire hunter.
Yeah, that's she was racistagainst him, but then she kind
of wanted to fuck them.
She fetishized them.
Wait, I'm making connectionshere.
Who would she have voted for in2016?
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Yes, than non-Vampire Elena.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Vampire Elena was better, especially when she
turned off her uh her empathy,right?
What is that thing?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah, when her her switch, when she yeah, when her
and Caroline were both peakvampire, like when they went on
that binge, I was just like,this is great.
This is like the real girlbonding, right?
This is weird girl bondingslutting it up, and eating them.
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
This is literally girlhood, yeah.
Killing men, fucking them, andthen murdering them, like
praying mantises.
As God intended.
As God intended, as God shewould want this.
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
I think she would.
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
But but and then uh okay, so another thing about
this show, and another thing,they were orphans, right?
Oh yeah, because of the caraccident.
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
Theoretically, they were orphans, but both her
parents were still alive,remember?
Her uncle was her father, andthen her mother Oh, I forgot her
mother was yeah, because theywent way out of game.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Okay, so they went way, yeah, they went way out.
Fuck Alaric all all the wayforever.
But okay, to be fair, Alaric wasa great fucking character.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
I loved Alaric until I realized that the guy who
plays Alaric is a fuckingmonster.
Yes.
Now he's ruined Alaric for me.
So whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
Yeah, because he was a decent character.
Also, Vampire.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Top tier.
Top tier.
Yeah, oh I'm just saying.
Like, ah, also you're not I'mnot above the incest of Damon
and Swords.
That's all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
Also, I feel like vampire diars made a lot of shit
up, like the switch, themorality switch, or whatever.
I've never heard of that in anyother vampire lore.
They're just like we need areason why all of a sudden we're
just killing people.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
We need them to have a berserker mode.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
I need them to go turbo slut on these bitches.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
I need, but we need a reason.
We had to have the moralityswitch because it was the only
way to justify why nobody murkedDamon in the first season.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Yeah, and and for Alina to go, Stefan, please,
please, Stefan, it's me.
And I'm sorry, it's me.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
The most unbelievable storyline in the
vampire diaries is Stefan aslike some sort of just like
monster.
Because I'm sorry, I just cannotpicture him to it at the time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Also, them being together doesn't make any sense
either.
Sorry.
It doesn't make any sense.
What's the name of the originalsguy that I like?
Her why they abandoned that, Iwill truly is it because she
didn't want to do originals?
I don't know, because that wouldhave been so cute.
Yeah.
No, I think Grumpy Sunshine.
(14:54):
I love Grumpy Sunshine.
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
It's the best trope, but also it's like the good
girl, bad boy, like turning himinto a kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
So hot.
And his brother, too.
Okay.
Elijah's my at the same damntime.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Elijah was like chef's kiss.
Like Klaus, I get it.
I get why people think like he'shot.
I would Eiffel tower them.
But Elijah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
I would take him to Paris, baby.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
There's something so hot about a guy who's just like
super restrained and looks soput together all the time, but
then just like will flip thatswitch and murder 18 people
because you like must hisgirlfriend's.
SPEAKER_02 (15:35):
Or like when he's mean to his brother, and then
like, but someone else is meanto his brother, and he's like,
ah, I'm gonna murder 200.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
Yeah, he's like, this is not hard.
I really didn't want to getblood on this shirt, but this is
what I gotta do.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
I think I just like the setting of like New Orleans,
and I like my vampires old asfuck.
I like my vampires like I needthe I need the CEO of vampire.
You know what I mean?
Take me to the top.
Yeah, I think that's what Ilike.
I think like the Voltaire, Iwould in Twilight, I would have
been in the Volteri.
I'm like, who's the VIP in thisbitch?
That's where I'm trying to beat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:10):
I think Rebecca got the short end of the stick as
far as the vampire diaries goes,and and the originals.
Talk about somebody who just waskicked constantly while she was
down.
I don't know what class.
They put that bitch to sleep.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
They were like, you know what?
You're going back to sleep.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
They they staked Rebecca was almost comical by
the time.
Like, did she go to maternity?
I just want the people just likeI just want to go to prom and
they're like, Fuck you, back tosleep for you.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
She even rolled her eyes.
Should that be this time to gonight night for a hundred years?
It's rude.
It's so rude.
It's the patriarchy, and she hadto live it over and over.
And she just wanted to have alittle good time.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Finding out that Stefan gave her necklace to
Elena.
SPEAKER_02 (16:56):
Remember?
Stefan is the actually Stefan isthe villain.
It really is.
And and then how they endedVampire Diaries.
What?
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
When they tossed Stefan into the the river, like
still alive in that box.
I was like, good read.
SPEAKER_02 (17:17):
I need a little more closure than that.
Like, what?
I thought they ended it sosloppily.
They're like, and then we threwStefan in the river.
And we Stefan shed its hair inthe woods.
Do they kill Stefan in the endof him?
They put him in.
No, they think they put him inthe the cave.
I don't remember.
The witch dies.
The witch dies.
unknown (17:37):
Wait.
SPEAKER_02 (17:38):
Blocked it.
Wait.
The people the people arescreaming.
That's not out.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
No, that was definitely like the whole
kicking him into the oceandidn't last because they went
and got him, but which is alsohow do you find okay?
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
The vampire diars ended with Stefan's sacrifice to
kill Catherine and destroy hell.
I don't remember that.
Elena waking up from her magicalslumber.
Damon and Elena returning tolive a long human life.
I remember that together beforefinding peace in the afterlife.
Other characters also foundtheir own happy endings, such as
(18:11):
Bonnie traveling the world andcan't wait.
I thought Bonnie died.
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
No, Bonnie didn't die.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Enzo died.
Okay.
Which pissed me off.
Traveling the world and Carolineand Alaric opening a boarding
school for young supernaturalbeings.
Which was the spin-off.
I never watched it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
It was actually it was pretty decent.
It was I mean, it was more whatdo you call it?
Like a little hokier.
Definitely felt like it was morefor kids than it was like
Hogwarts?
SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
Like Hogwarts, but for vampires.
SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Kind of, it wasn't quite that, like I don't know.
It definitely had that youngadult boarding school vibe that
like you like we used to love askids to read about.
Yeah.
It definitely had that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
But I'm still reading about schools, but now
they're like magical dragons andthey be fucking.
So I don't know.
I I still like a school vibe.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
I think I think it's just a universal thing.
Like I think girl, I think girlsspecifically really loved the
idea of a boarding school.
Like get together It's true.
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
You're writing a series about a boarding school,
aren't you?
For for assassins.
SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
No, I do write a book about a school for
assassins because Hey, what's itcalled?
SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
Where could they find it?
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
It's very gay.
Shocker, I know.
SPEAKER_03 (19:33):
Shock, shock, shock.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Yeah, no.
The watch, but the watch didn'tcome from my love of boarding
schools.
The watch came because I wasobsessed with the graphic novel
Deadly Class.
SPEAKER_02 (19:43):
Oh, just so you know, I bought a month of
Peacock on your account with mywith my money.
You should watch.
I don't want to make my ownaccount because I was already
logged into yours.
But uh all her fault.
No it's just show, and I had toI had to turn it off yesterday
because I couldn't stop watchingit.
It's so good.
I haven't liked a show in years.
(20:03):
Uh Vampire Diaries?
Vampire Diaries.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Are you guys doing this care?
They know.
They just know.
If they're still tuning in, theyknow that this is they are
tuning in because I get theemails.
Yeah, exactly.
The emails that are like, youhit a new milestone.
And I'm like, holy shit.
Like, I can't believe peopleactually listen to us.
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (20:22):
Thanks, guys.
I can believe it because we'rehilarious.
Anyway, like I said, originalsbetter than Vampire Daries.
But I I watched it all.
The WB was such a loved it.
I don't know what happened withtheir or what happened, My
Little Dancing Frog.
Where did we go?
Well, it became the CW.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
As soon as it became the CW, then it like things were
definitely different.
I mean, we still had we hadsupernatural.
Yeah, you know, like it was agood time for paranormal
stories, you know.
And it was like you were comingoff that post-Twilight, like you
know, we're Vampire Diaries wasbefore Twilight for me.
(21:01):
Well, it was for me too, becausewe read the books, but yeah, I
don't know, guys.
SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
We're gonna be hipsters right now.
Like I I knew about it before itwas cool.
So before before before it was aTV show.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
The Vampire Diaries is a good is a good indication
of like how you do have to pivotthough, like when it comes to
because you have to think aboutthe fact that the vampire
diaries came out in the 90s, theearly 90s.
So when they rebooted uh in like2006, like it's a whole
different time.
Hence the Ravens and the FogMachines did not work in the
(21:38):
first five episodes.
And I'm sure they saw theratings and were like, all
right, we gotta regroup, wegotta regroup, we gotta, we
gotta figure this shit out.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Steve, get the fog machine out of here.
What?
We still have 30 days on therental.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
So I think that especially like as an author,
you kind of have to follow youraudience a little bit.
So much of my stuff has comefrom my actual readers versus my
own brain.
Like they'll make connectionsthat I didn't, and then I'm
like, oh shit, okay, well, nowthey're expecting it, and now
they think that I'm the one whoactually engineered this.
(22:14):
Like, I'm just so And we letthem believe that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:16):
And I'm just and or she'll comment things and she'll
be like, maybe in the future.
And I already know this bitch islike, open my notes app.
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Oh, please be so desperate mid book because I
don't plot anything.
Like, I'm a I'm a pantser, asthey call it.
Like, I get so that's what theycall it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
I'm calling the police.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Are you a plotter or a bit?
Lying by the seat of my pants.
Um but yeah, so like I don'tpre-like plan anything.
I just write and whateverhappens, happens.
Sometimes I get stuck and I justgo into my Patreon group and I'm
just like, hey, if you guyscould write the book yourselves,
what would you want to seehappen to these characters?
SPEAKER_02 (22:57):
I mean, I already know what I'm gonna do.
SPEAKER_01 (22:58):
Yeah, but I'm just curious.
I mean, I've already written it.
I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_02 (23:01):
Like, quick pull, quick pull.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Yeah.
Well, and like I they begged meto write this short story about
these two characters that willeventually have their own book.
And now they're like, okay,well, that was too good.
Now you need to just put yourother stuff on hold and write
these two books first.
And I'm like, but that's thatwasn't that wasn't my plan.
Like, I have two other booksthat I have to finish first.
(23:25):
Yes, Daddy, no problem.
But now I'm seriouslycontemplating, like, okay, do I
just put the watch on hold, puta pin in it, finish the last
three books for Jericho's boys,and then go back.
SPEAKER_02 (23:37):
Well, what are they what are they liking?
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
I I I get more I think Jericho's Boys is uh They
like Jericho's Boys because itstill has a huge tie to the
Mulvaneys, which is of courselike my most popular series.
So there's a lot of cameos,there's a lot of tie-in, not so
much with the watch.
The watch is almost kind of likeits own entity that just kind of
has a spin-off aspect.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Why why don't you pluck one of those Mulvaney?
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
They are, they are like two of the Mulvaneys
literally are in the watch.
SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
Teachers over there or something?
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Okay, okay, but it's just like it's not the enough
family interaction.
They like that that the banter.
Anything our Thanksgiving isbasically every day at the
Mulvaney house.
Like Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (24:23):
Are their kids old enough to get some books now?
Are they grown up?
Are they assassins?
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
No, they're definitely not old enough, but
they will be.
I will age their ass.
Do whatever you want.
I will age the ass.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
You you're like me and The Sims.
Age up, bitch.
Time for a book.
I just gotta finish all thebooks that I'm currently
finishing in the anyway.
Uh this is good for editor backto vampire diary.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
But we I think as authors, you definitely have to
be willing to kind of pivot andchange direction.
But also, I think that you haveto be able to take things as it
comes, like LJ Smith writing herown fanfic when she lost the
rights to the characters.
That Patreon is great for that.
I think it's a good way tore-monetize your own IP without
(25:08):
having to do the whole work ofwriting a whole other book.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Like, yeah, the short stories and stuff they
love.
SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
Yeah, exactly.
And I was actually talking toanother author last night about
how you can take like one thingand repurpose it in four or five
different ways.
You know, like I do my shortstories and then I bundle them
all and they become anthologies,and then like so it's Patreon
content and then it becomes abook, and then it's like family
(25:36):
and felonies.
They love yeah, family andfelonies.
Now it's villains andvigilantes.
There's a murder and mistletoeone that's gonna be done at
Christmas time.
SPEAKER_02 (25:43):
I was just gonna say, are you gonna do a
Christmas one?
Oh my god, we're like me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
It's almost like we're related.
SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
Oh my god, hive brain, hive brain.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
But yeah, so like the whole like the idea of it is
is like, so I'm you gettingPatreon content by releasing the
stories on Patreon first.
I'm getting newsletter contentbecause I'm doing the main story
in my newsletter and then bonuscontent on Patreon, and then I'm
bundling it all and I'm doing itas an anthology.
So like I'm making money off ofthat in like three separate
ways.
(26:13):
So I think that at least that'sone thing that LJ Smith got to
do was that she literally got tostill make money off of because
I mean she might not havecreated the characters, but she
definitely made them.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Like she's the one who they gave her a shell and
she breathed like exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
Like, and I guess that used to be super popular in
the 90s, like this work for hirething.
SPEAKER_02 (26:39):
I've heard of it, I've heard of it where they give
you like an idea, and then a lotof them end up being like
hallmarky type.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Yeah, I hear that there's a whole there's like
writer groups, like secretwriter groups, where people sell
their like outlines for stories,yeah, you know, and they like
are like I can't write this.
I heard about it in uh YellowFace.
SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
Yeah, Yellow Face by RF Quang is about a writer.
It's a very good book if youhaven't read it.
But yeah, she she was a topwriter and then she kind of
falls from grace from doing fromdoing some shady shit, and
that's what she ends up havingto do.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
She has to be like not a ghostwriter, but and
that's the thing, because it'slike it's somehow different than
being a ghostwriter.
Because I think being aghostwriter is kind of like a
lot of times it's forcelebrities for some like
somebody who has like a memoirtype story they want to tell.
Yeah, you know, or even like alot of times celebrities will
have ghostwriters for fictionnovels that they like have an
(27:34):
idea for because they know theirname will sell, even if they
don't have necessarily thetalent to write story.
But like work for hire, I guess,was more just really common.
Like it's like, oh, you're agood writer, here's a whole
story outline, just write thatfor us.
SPEAKER_03 (27:49):
And if it's an easy check.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
Yeah, and that's the thing, it's a one-time check.
Like it's a you know, and that'swhy she didn't have the rights
to the vampire, because it wasjust a work for hire.
Here's your check, thanks foryour time, have a nice day.
But I think that the problemwith that is I get too attached
to my characters.
Like if somebody had handed mealso, you're too controlling.
SPEAKER_02 (28:12):
Could you imagine?
That's why you could never bewith a publisher.
She, you for whatever you don'tlike being the boss, you do like
being the boss of your own shit.
Like, no one's gonna tell youwhat to do with your boys.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
Of course, I it's always an A plus or an F, full
stop.
So if I'm getting that F, it'sgonna be because of me.
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
You know what I mean?
I don't want to have the boysAnd then she's gonna hermit, and
then you're gonna hermit for amonth.
It's true, yeah.
So everybody tell her what agood job she's doing, please.
That's why I don't read myreviews.
Like, I like nobody shouldsomebody's who's getting in
trouble right now.
Someone's getting canceled fordoing that.
Tell us in the comments ifthere's comments.
Can you comment?
I don't know.
I mean you can't okay.
(28:58):
On Spotify comment, I willfigure out how to check it.
There's somebody, there's anauthor right now who's getting
canceled for going to readerspaces and and commenting on
critiques and reviews.
And it's a it's a traditional,it's a traditional well-known
author.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
And that's crazy because you would think the
publisher would have just beenlike, shut your fucking mouth.
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Don't shut up, just shut up, shut up.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah, you're just readers are allowed to talk.
But somebody once said otherpeople's opinions about me are
none of my business, and that'sthat's what I live by.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
Like also, they're not writing books.
There's books that I've readthat I thought were dog shit.
Okay, and I'm allowed to thinkthey're dog shit.
I think we we just talk so muchshit about 50 shades of gray for
a full hour.
Yeah, I don't think she's gonnalisten to our podcast and cry
into her billions of dollarssilk pillowcase, her silk
pillowcase padded with hundreddollar bills.
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
Well, I mean, the thing is is like books are
subjective, like you know, Ialways used to like.
Like go and look at my favoritebooks, one star reviews, to make
myself feel better.
Because I'm like, that's anamazing book.
And if somebody looked at it andwas like, that's shit, then like
you can't please everybody, youknow?
You just you just can't.
You can't please everybody.
(30:14):
So you just have to make and notevery genre is for everybody.
SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
What are you comfort dark romance?
What do you call dark romance?
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
My very first book that I wrote as an MM author was
Daddy Kink, right?
So I Where the Devil Don't Go?
Uh no, that Intoxicating, thefirst Elite book.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
Oh, is that the first book you wrote?
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Yeah, that's the first book I wrote.
And then Well, in this genre.
Well, yeah, and then I switchedand I did disciplinary action as
a standalone for a short storythat I eventually expanded.
And then I went back and Ifinished the Elite series.
But yeah, Intoxicating was DaddyKink.
And I remember getting atwo-star review, and it was it
started out with I don't knowwhy I agreed to read this.
(30:54):
I'm just not in the mood forDaddy Kink right now.
And I was just like, I don'tknow why you agreed to read it
either then.
unknown (30:59):
What the fuck?
SPEAKER_02 (31:00):
Sometimes you don't know you're not in the mood for
Daddy Kinks.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
You're in a bad mood.
SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
Like, I don't really like I don't like gays and I
don't like Daddy Kinks, but I'mgonna read a Daddy Kink roman.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Yeah.
So like you and you get a lot ofthat.
Like, especially when there'slike reviewers, um, you know,
like NetGalley, you can ask toread an art copy and make and
leave a review or whatever.
And some of these people onNetGalle, they're like, I hate
romanticy, and then they sign upfor romanticy and then they
trash it.
And I'm just like, what do youget out of this?
SPEAKER_02 (31:34):
Like, and what's to hate about romanticy?
We're just having a good time asa romanticy girl.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
But you saw did you see that girl who literally
tagged the author in a horriblereview?
And she's like, Your book istrash, and she's like, it
belongs in the garbage.
Like she was nasty for no otherreason than to be nasty.
Was it an indie or was it a bigauthor?
(31:59):
I want to say it's an indieauthor, but I'm not sure.
That's terrible.
I just thought fallout from iton threads, like everybody was
freaking out.
Because at first people werelike, Oh, well, it sucks to tag
the author in a bad review, butthis was not a critical review.
This was just being mean for thesake of being mean and then
being like, I can do whatever Iwant, I can say whatever I want.
(32:21):
And I'm sorry, but if you tag mein a shitty review and you talk
to me like that, then yeah, I'mprobably going to post something
saying something back to you.
Yeah, it would be the only timeI ever did something like that
because I just post it.
SPEAKER_02 (32:32):
I'm just gonna repost.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
But if you're asking me, like you're asking me to
look at it, you're asking me tolisten to your opinion.
So then you're gonna listen tomy rebuttal, and it's gonna
sound a lot like, hey kids, whydon't you eat my ass?
Write a book, come exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (32:48):
Can't wait to read your novel.
What's your what's your good wasyour great American novel coming
out?
Charity.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Some people just are so mean for the sake of being
mean, and I don't reallyunderstand that.
Like I get critiquing somepeople.
SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
I actually don't even do bad reviews on
goodreads.
Oh, nope, there was one, and Idon't ever write words.
I'm not a writer.
I was like, what you you dowrite words.
I've seen that.
I don't.
I on my uh on my on my reviews,it was a it was a thriller, but
really it was just torture porn.
And I could barely get throughit.
(33:23):
And I and I get through thepedophile stuff, and like I read
a lot of the not I mean likethrillers because my characters
it yeah, bad things, but it waslike on and on and on.
I think it was called Oh, Allthe Pretty Girls.
I've heard of that book.
Yeah, people were raving aboutit.
I like a thriller, it was crazy,but as you expect, okay.
(33:43):
Like I I'm down, not down forit, but like I I'm not new to
it, I'm true to it.
Like I've been here in the genrebefore, you know.
But they went into too muchdetail for no reason, right?
Like, there's I don't need toknow how this sounded and like
all the that's Stephen Kingshit.
I'm not a Stephen King shit.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
I don't that's part of the reason I think that I
don't go too into detail withlike the bad stuff.
Like, I give you just enoughinformation for you to
understand why somebody ismessed up.
I don't do torture porn, I don'tlike trauma porn, I don't like
people who who seem to like getoff on the details of that.
(34:23):
Yeah, but like if I think I seesomething that's really toxic or
that might trigger somebody, butthere's no warning about it, I
might leave a bad review.
But it's rare.
I well now it's rare because Inever fucking read.
But back when I was likereading, you know, 10 books a
week, like it was it wasdefinitely more prominent that I
was.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
You should just move on, but yeah, like you know, you
close it, you go, and then youmove on.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
And I'm on my way.
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
You already got my $20.
You got my$20.
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
I didn't steal it because I don't do that because
I'm a good person.
Yeah, and you know, and that'swhat kills me.
It's like I get some like peoplewho return books, ebooks after
they read them.
That makes me so mad becausethere was never a time before
e-readers where you could justbring a book back and be like,
this book was shitty.
I want my money back.
SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
So come on, stop it.
Cut it out.
So being cut out of the book.
Stop reading the e-books andtelling me you thought it was an
audiobook.
We can see it there.
SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
She said her piece.
SPEAKER_02 (35:23):
I doubt that anybody that's listening to this would
do that.
No, they definitely wouldn't.
They're definitely not.
You guys are for the curiousthings.
These are my diehards.
But anyway, bad.
Vampire Dires.
SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
The Vampire Darius.
I'm trying to think.
Like, because I I think they II'm probably the only one who
watched all three, like theVampire Darius, the originals,
and then Legacies kind ofafterwards.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
Yeah, because I think I even I think I even
ditched the originals.
I don't think it was because ofthe originals.
I think I just got busy orsomething and didn't come back
to it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
What I did was I ended up watching Legacies, like
the first two episodes, and thengoing back and finishing the
originals because I realizedthat I had missed like the whole
last season because I didn'tunderstand how Klaus had died.
And I was like, wait, how iseverybody dead?
Like, what do you meaneverybody's dead?
And I was just like, This isfucking bullshit.
(36:14):
What?
SPEAKER_02 (36:15):
And how is she she was a baby five minutes ago?
You took you took a nap and youwoke up and you're like,
everyone's fucking dead!
SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
It literally was like that.
I was like, Elijah dead, Klausdead, all of the uncles dead,
Rebecca dead.
It's like, what the fuck ishappening here?
Rebecca's so beautiful.
Like that actress should havebeen more popular.
SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
She was so beautiful, Rebecca.
SPEAKER_01 (36:38):
Oh, yes, gorgeous.
And the girl who played Haleywas beautiful too.
And they were both in and theywere both in H2O.
They both played mermaids andH2O.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
Well are they Australian Australian?
Oh, I didn't know that.
I Kaylee, my formerstepdaughter, she used to love
that show.
Mick used to love it.
Oh, Mikaila liked it, yeah.
Like where they get like alittle bit of water on them and
then they have to be, but thendidn't they work somewhere where
there was water?
I don't know.
There was a lot of fear ofgetting sprinkled with water.
SPEAKER_01 (37:07):
I only remember parts where they were like on
the dock and that it was kind ofhomoerotic between Rebecca's
character and Haley's character.
Like one thing we're gonna do ismake a Well, there was just a
lot of weird tension between thetwo of them.
And then when they they're I uhfrom what I understand, they're
actual friends in real life now,probably because they've been
doing shows together for solong.
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
Yeah, they're force proximity.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
Exactly.
Nothing check off.
Write them fanfics or fanfics.
SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
Write themselves, baby.
But yeah, like write that down,readers or you know writers.
SPEAKER_01 (37:40):
These people are writers, but yeah, like so they
they knew each other for a longtime, I guess, but there
definitely seemed to be some.
As far as I'm concerned, therewasn't enough gay in the vampire
diaries.
I will say that.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
It was the time.
There wasn't gay.
It wasn't enough gay anywhere.
Who was gay in that show?
SPEAKER_01 (38:00):
Not until season like five or six when the twins
do you remember when Kai showsup?
He gets Bonnie and Damon gettrapped in that world with that
fucking evil, crazy dude ChrisWood plays him.
I don't remember.
I don't know, it's been so longsince I watched the show.
(38:21):
You want to talk about a perfectvillain.
Chris Wood, sexy as fuck,absolutely unhinged in every
conceivable way, nothingredeemable about him, stabbed
his pregnant sister when she waspregnant with twins.
Like he did not give a singlefuck.
Okay, but was so sarcastic andso unintentionally funny that
(38:46):
you couldn't help but kind ofget excited when he showed up on
the screen.
Because you knew it was gonna bechaotic and bloody, and you were
probably gonna be mad when itwas over.
But he just had such greatpresence that, like, the minute
he showed up, I was like, Oh no,here we go.
But he's and he's gay.
Um, he's not, but his brother islike so he has twin siblings,
(39:11):
one's a girl, one's a boy, andthey go to school with Elena,
and that's kind of how like shegets involved in the whole
thing.
But damn, they went to schoolfor a long ass time.
They were in high, they were incollege at this point.
This was uh that's how long itwas.
That's why I'm saying it'sprobably season five.
It was after she became avampire.
Um still go to college, butyeah, exactly.
(39:33):
You can still be a vampire andgo to college as long as you
have a special magic ring, yeah.
A special magic ring and youdon't mind using like caprice on
blood bags.
SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
They use that trope in every vampire thing.
They're like, uh, how do we getit so that they're not actually
eating people blood bags?
SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
But it's so funny to watch them just like stab a
straw into that blood bag, likeit's a caprice and it makes me
laugh.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Like how they don't eat food, but they're they
always find a way for thesevampires to get a little drunk.
Always.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Well, yeah, because like drunk vampires, who
wouldn't love that?
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Drunk, sexy vampires?
But I like them a littleandrogynous, you know, a little
more like uh interview with avampire type dude.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
That's my biggest beef with with the vampire
diaries, is it was not gayenough for me.
And I'm sorry, but if you'vebeen on this planet 200 years,
don't tell me you didn't try adick at least once.
Or listen, they'll say they did.
These men are Damon they'retrying to Damon and Enzo, like
okay, first off, Damon andAlaric, like I said, a little
(40:36):
too much tension there.
But Damon and Enzo, there wasvery much a wink wink, like
nudge nudge, like like implyingthat they had something more
going on than they were saying.
But Enzo and Bonnie weresupposed to be endgame, and I
think that's where they lost me.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Is I didn't like their uh storyline with Bonnie
really at all.
SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
Well, because Julie Pleck allegedly hates Cat
Graham, and some people say it'srace related, some people say
they just never got along, butit was like her personal mission
to make sure that Cat Graham'scharacter was miserable all the
time.
Interesting.
(41:19):
And she was completelyunderutilized because Cat Graham
speaks like seven fuckinglanguages, and she's a singer.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Yeah, and I liked the witch vibe that they did,
like but they underutilize likeshe what she's the only witch,
her and her mom.
That doesn't really make anysense.
SPEAKER_01 (41:38):
Once you hear about the beef Julie Pleck had with
Kat Graham, then you kind oflike go back and you watch the
show with a whole different likeYeah, you know, and obviously
Kat Graham and uh the guy whoplayed Alaric did not get along.
Yeah, um yeah, he always hadbeef with her, and he was
apparently very, very hostile toher on set all the time.
(41:58):
Which is awful.
SPEAKER_02 (41:59):
Well, that makes sense.
Well, it makes perfect.
Well, yes, it makes sense as faras like I'm not justifying it.
I don't think it's good, but itmakes sense.
It definitely makes I believegirl, I believe you.
I know you're listening, Ibelieve you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
It's just crazy because I loved Alaric's
character, and then it turnedout he was more like when he
played Warner and LegallyBlonde.
SPEAKER_02 (42:18):
Oh, yeah.
What, like it's hard?
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
He played such a douche in that movie.
Yeah, just fucking person.
That's why I stopped watchingLegacies because I heard all of
this stuff about him and I sawhow he was behaving.
I'm not gonna support that shit.
SPEAKER_02 (42:33):
Yeah, you know who's so funny online is the guy who
plays uh Stefan.
Oh, what the hell is his name?
Paul not Walker.
I don't know why I was gonna sayR P R I P R P.
He's so funny.
Yeah, nobody takes was itStefusy?
(42:54):
Like he takes in Paul Wesley sohard.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Paul Wesley.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, he definitely he he'sin on the joke.
And him and Dame, uh him and IanSummerholder have a whiskey
company.
They do, which I think isthey're just goofy boys, they're
just silly goofy boys, and andthey don't they don't mind being
hippy-dippy trippy, like veryyeah, yeah, yeah.
(43:18):
Well, he used to be with theElena chick.
Oh, yeah, no, him and NitaDeBro.
I think a lot of that obviouslyis why they're like the sexual
tension between them.
It's really hard to pretendyou're in love with somebody
else when you're literally yourboyfriend's right there.
SPEAKER_02 (43:35):
And he and that's and that's your boyfriend, and
that's also your boyfriend.
I just want two boyfriends, andI want my boyfriends to be
boyfriends.
Um, is that too much to ask?
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
But Paul Wesley's wife also played in the show.
SPEAKER_02 (43:49):
Which one?
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
She played the doctor in later seasons, a
doctor who knows about vampires.
I remember that.
There's probably it should bethe blood bag supplier.
Yes, exactly.
There were so many episodes ofthat show, and I used to like it
used to be my comfort show, likeit used to be the one that just
played all the time in thebackground.
And then, like, I don't know, Ijust woke up one morning and I
(44:12):
was just like, I can't do it.
And then I found another comfortshow, which turned out to be
Buzzfeed Supernatural.
Yes, I know.
So I don't know, but yeah, forthe longest time, I would say
probably three years the VampireDiaries was running in the
background of my life, like24-7.
SPEAKER_02 (44:28):
That was me with Parks and Rec.
I don't know why.
SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
Oh god, I know, because I used to sleep in your
bed and you had that shitblasting like you were my
mother.
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Like I have never heard somebody who can sleep
with a I'm the type of personthat like don't let my dreams
don't leave my dreams up tochance.
Put a plot line in there,because this shit, this should
be this too too much, too toomuch.
Don't let it do too much.
Yeah, no shit.
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
But I just I don't know, I think that Damon and
Elena were actually like thatperfect couple because it's what
every girl kind of like secretlyloves, is just like you know,
the bad boy, but also like theone who's only nice to you, just
you.
He would literally burn down theworld just for you.
SPEAKER_02 (45:15):
Yeah, just for you.
We all love it.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Yeah, you can't get enough of that trope.
It writes itself, and then alsoStefan was such a martyr, he was
such a so was she, so was she,though.
So is she.
Oh my god.
But imagine how inseparable thetwo of them would have been as a
like a long-term couple, theywould be the couple you avoided
at every fucking party.
Stefan and Caroline?
Come on, that was silly.
(45:40):
Stefan and Caroline were likesuch good buddies, you know what
I mean?
Like, I wish they had just leftit as a friendship, but yet
again, because it means a guyand a girl can't be friends
without one of them wanting tofuck each other, apparently.
Like, so when when that wholething went down, but honestly,
MVP is Caroline.
She bagged, she banged everysingle guy in that show.
(46:02):
She fucked every single guy inthat show, and honestly, true,
fucking good for you, girl.
I would too.
I would too at the same damntime, at the same time.
And I remember just sittingthere one day going, wait a
minute.
She's literally fucked everyone.
(46:24):
She's the good girl.
SPEAKER_02 (46:25):
Yeah, don't forget, she's the goody too.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
But you know the best thing about Caroline is
she's such a type A personality,right?
Like, if you needed shit done,Caroline was the one that
everybody called.
SPEAKER_02 (46:34):
I loved Caroline.
I loved her.
I hated her.
I wanted her to my yeah, yeah,yeah.
She was hella annoying in seasonone.
They were all a little bitannoying in season one.
They were all a little bitannoying.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Caroline had the most the best redemption arc for
sure.
SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Her be when she first found out she got turned
into a vampire was one of myfavorite reactions.
She was so fucking annoyed.
SPEAKER_01 (46:55):
Yeah, she really was so annoyed by that people
thought that she couldn't likecontrol herself.
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Yeah.
And she was annoyed.
SPEAKER_01 (47:05):
She was different.
SPEAKER_02 (47:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She she wanted to do high schoollike to the most.
SPEAKER_01 (47:11):
Yeah, she would be a Cullen.
She would be the one who didhigh school over and over and
over and over again.
If she just had she could do itwith all of her friends over and
over again, exactly.
She had her built-in click, shewould have literally just done
high school forever.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, she's one of my favorites.
Yeah, and Klaus, obviously.
Call me.
I liked Vicky, Matt's sister.
SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
I wish they had kept her around a little bit more.
SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
Yeah.
Well, I I saw Vicky as a realperson.
You know, she was more real thanthe rest of these.
Who's that fucking up tight inhigh school?
Yeah.
Like these kids were walkingaround like they were 40 years
old, like, drugs, don't dodrugs, like, do some drugs, grow
up, come out.
SPEAKER_01 (47:54):
It was weird that she was hooking up with Matt,
because I think he or not Matt,Jeremy, because like what he's
supposed to be, what, 15 in theshow?
And I think she's supposed to be17, which is not a huge age gap,
but still, 15 and 17 when itcomes to a boy and a girl.
Might as well be 30 years.
But Jeremy was another one whowas like insufferable, and then
(48:16):
he became like one of myfavorite characters, and then he
became insufferable again.
SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
He's like, Oh, I want to hunt them.
Yeah, I was like, What?
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
For what do you mean you're a vampire hunter now?
Like, just just just go toalgebra.
SPEAKER_02 (48:30):
Yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (48:31):
He's an he got jacked in one of those seasons,
like when he became like thequote.
SPEAKER_02 (48:35):
He was hot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was hot.
They're all hot.
SPEAKER_01 (48:39):
I mean, they're all hot.
He's older than Elena, which isfunny as fuck to me that he
played the little brother.
SPEAKER_02 (48:45):
They all by the end of the show, they all looked 48
years old.
Yeah.
Like, graduate.
Yeah.
Go.
SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
Yeah, there was there was no.
I thought vampires don't age.
There's no age or Damon off ashigh schoolers.
SPEAKER_02 (48:58):
Well, because they put the show on a little too
long for them to not be aging.
Yeah.
Because by the end, you're like,yeah, you guys look hella
different.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
Also, Ian Summerholder has one of those
faces where it's like, you cantell early on in his life he was
like a construction worker wherehe was outdoors all the time.
And then he built like thatwhole habitat thing for like
animals and stuff.
So yeah, he's definitely aginglike somebody who was a big
thing.
We were not passing off a moral.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
Which is fine.
Neither am I, baby.
SPEAKER_01 (49:26):
Okay, neither am I.
I mean, Ian Summerholder isaging like wine.
He's great.
He looks fantastic.
I I also like the fact that hekind of just looks homeless when
he's not working and he's justlike, yeah, this is just yeah,
they both kind of look homeless.
SPEAKER_02 (49:41):
And I also like that they both interact with the fans
and they don't care that that'sall they're really known for.
SPEAKER_01 (49:46):
Well, and that's the thing.
I think it's the same thing withsupernatural.
I think they both they were alljust kind of like, we make a lot
of money to hang out with ourfriends and do this job that we
love.
Why are we acting like we needmore than this?
Like most people would kill DNRshoes.
And they love their fans becausethey get to do the same thing.
You know, like because of them.
(50:07):
They're the reason like the showlasted as long as it did.
And I think and I think thatthat's kind of like K-pop is the
same way.
Like K-pop stars love theirfans, they are extremely
possessive, extremely likeloyal, very protective of their
fans because they know howeasily they can disappear.
Like they call it the seven-yearcurse in K-pop because that's
(50:29):
how long the contracts last.
And most don't get renewed.
So like they know that at bestthey have seven years to do
this, and then hopefully theirfans will follow them into solo
careers or whatever.
So, like, you you gotta yougotta be grateful for what you
have.
And a lot of these people,especially in movie acting, I
(50:51):
think they're just always justlike, okay, I'm not Hermione
anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (50:57):
Yeah, look at my tits.
You know, I don't know if shedid that.
I don't know if she did.
I'm just saying stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
Actually, the only person I know who did that was
uh what's his name?
The one who played Harry Potter.
He got naked on stage.
He like almost immediately He ishe's like an actor.
Yeah, no, he definitely was onthe stage.
That's the nice thing, is likehe has so much money that he can
just do weird indie films forthe rest of his life, you know.
But he has a face for it.
Yeah, he does, he definitelydoes.
(51:23):
He has one of those characterfaces, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (51:26):
Character face.
If you ever say that's me, I'mgonna cry.
You know, Shannon, you have aface for character acting.
Really?
What character would that be?
SPEAKER_01 (51:35):
A beautiful woman, they say no, they say a
beautiful woman, but there'sjust certain actors that never
got like top tier.
But like, I mean, DanielRadcliffe obviously is an A-list
actor, but like there's justcertain actors you see in all
these movies, and they always dolike these epic roles, and
you're just like, why do thesepeople not get more recognition?
SPEAKER_02 (51:56):
They're like, I am a heroin addict who traveled the
world and babies children.
Yeah, yeah.
And then you're like, wow, andit's a true story.
What?
Wow.
Unless it's not and then you hadto lose 75 pounds to do it.
Whoa! Yeah, that that's theother and then you never hear
about that movie ever.
Yeah.
It just like it got shown at thecans, and yeah, exactly.
(52:19):
And they won a bunch of awards,and people were like, What is
Yeah, some guy in Manhattan'stalking about it somewhere and
in a coffee shop because he sawit.
SPEAKER_01 (52:30):
Well, I think we've exhausted this topic.
I think we had a few good pointsfor authors in there, hopefully,
somewhere along the way in ourlong rambling, whiny leave the
shop talk in there.
That's for authors too.
SPEAKER_02 (52:50):
You guys like that?
You want to hear about like her?
SPEAKER_03 (52:55):
You guys wanna sell books?
This is what it takes.
You gotta be dedicated, yougotta fucking talk about that
shit.
It's Christmas, motherfucker.
Load up that Shopify.
You got this, authors.
SPEAKER_01 (53:08):
I will say that I am reloading my Patreon course onto
the pay onto our Burned Out MusePatreon.
So if you are an author andyou're looking to finally jump
off the cliff of Patreon, I havean entire course that I'll be
dripping through our$25 tier onPatreon.
Um starting today.
(53:29):
I'm gonna put the first courseup.
It's an older course that I didlast year, but I'm gonna
repurpose it because it's got alot of good information in
there.
Um but yeah, so you can find uspatreon.com slash the burned out
muse.
You can find us anywhere atslash the Feral Phantoms Podcast
or slash the burned out muse,depending on what you're looking
for.
Um, but yeah, so we will, Idon't know what we're talking
(53:52):
about next week.
I haven't decided yet.
It'll be a surprise to all ofus.
SPEAKER_02 (53:56):
Uh it's always a surprise to me.
Yeah, I know.
I'd love to surprise you withtopics.
Like, oh I just show up.
I'm just the straight man here,I think.
SPEAKER_01 (54:06):
Never has that been more true.
Wait, am I a straight man?
SPEAKER_02 (54:12):
No, that's my nightmare.
Does it sound like a nightmare?
I mean, in this economy, itwould be nice.
SPEAKER_01 (54:18):
No shit.
All right, guys, we will see younext week.
Bye.
Bye.
Other people's opinions about me are none of my
business.
Yeah.
Hey everybody, welcome to theFeral Fandoms Podcast.
I'm only James.
I really had to think about thatfor a minute.
(00:22):
Gay romance author or author ofgay romances.
Just romance.
Why do we have to clarify it?
I don't know.
But I'm here with Shannon, whoapparently isn't getting enough
attention from me.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Yeah.
I am very greedy with attention.
Give me all your attention.
And that's my intro.
I'm just a greedy little whore.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Today we are going to be talking about something we
actually both know a lot aboutthis time.
The vampire diaries.
The vampire diaries has been abig topic in our family since
the 90s because we both read theactual original four vampire
(01:06):
diaries books in 1992.
I didn't read them in 92.
You read them.
Well, I must not have read themin 92 either, because I read
them, gave them to Kim, and thenI gave them to you.
So you were what, a teenager?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
I was in, I think, sixth grade.
So I was 11, so that's gonna putus at like 99.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That tracks, yeah.
So I didn't read them probablyuntil all no, I didn't read them
until all four were out becauseI binged them.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
And they were so good.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
They were like crack cocaine.
They really were.
And it was like for the time, itwas exactly like that juicy,
like I mean, it had everything.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
There wasn't the arc at the the three, the well, for
me, because I was 11, it was myfirst like will they, won't
they?
Which one and I like Damienstraight out of the gate, me
too, straight out of the gate.
We've been villain lovers for along time.
It's true, but like they're nottoo villainy.
I think we've talked about thatbefore.
SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Yeah, I mean, well, Damon in in the books he was not
as bad as he is in the show.
SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, which one was theConfederate soldier?
Uh Stefan.
SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Was he a Confederate?
I thought he was a Unionsoldier.
SPEAKER_02 (02:23):
One of them, they were on the opposites.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Well, they're supposed to be in Virginia.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
And I think Virginia was a very good idea.
One of them was a Confederatesoldier.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Well, Damon never goes to Damon never goes to war,
does he?
Because I know Jasper Hale fromTwilight was definitely a
Confederate soldier.
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
I wanted it to give me.
Was Damon Salvatore aConfederate soldier?
Yes, Damon was a Confederatesoldier in the American Civil
War.
He joined the Confederate Armyto please his father before
being turned into a vampire in1861.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
That's right.
Okay, that's right.
Because Damon's older.
I knew one of them was.
I wanted it to be Stefan.
I wanted it to be Stefan.
I know.
I know.
But after Damon killed Lexi, Iwas like, not Lexi, bro.
Come on.
Like, talk about like everybodyhates a party girl.
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
They've I know she was just so cool, though.
I'm I was Lexi in the early2000s, and you know what?
I'm glad no vampires killed me.
Because look at me now in mycul-de-sac with my babies.
You can turn a whore into ahousewife.
You can, okay?
Producers, writers, directors.
You could do a little coke, givea BJ in a bathroom, and then
(03:42):
still end up on the golf course.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Did you see that TikTok?
Fuck off.
Where it's like your mom used tobe a hoe and she's like she's
dancing with the broom.
I was like, my kids will neverknow.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
Oh, they will.
Trust me.
My husband doesn't even know thehalf of it.
Thank God he doesn't listen tothis podcast.
Good thing he doesn't support mein all my endeavors.
But the show versus the book,right?
The book is so good.
I should reread them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
I think if we reread them, we would realize that
they're probably really hokey.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Not that good.
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Yeah, they're probably not that good anymore.
I used to watch that stupid teenwitch movie from like the 80s,
and I was obsessed with it whenI was a little kid.
I went back and I watched it andI was like, this is literal
trash.
This is the worst thing I'veever seen in my life.
And so I'm afraid that if I wentback and I read the vampire
(04:44):
diaries now, I would just belike crushed by how not great.
It was more simpler times.
It was simpler times.
But I did find out.
So because I was talking abouthow LJ Smith lost the rights to
her characters or whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah.
We brought that up last.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
We were talking about a different we were on a
different episode when Imentioned it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
On a tangent.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah, on our one of our usual tangents.
And but I learned that sheactually didn't create those
characters.
She was work for hire, whichback in the 90s basically meant
they handed you the stuff andwere like, write this series.
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Oh, and then you write it.
Yeah, I do.
I have I've heard about that inother books.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
So she apparently didn't have the rights to those
characters.
Alloy, who hired her, did.
Hence the reason why they gaveher the opportunity to keep
writing the stories once it gotpicked up by the CW.
But I guess they didn't like herversion.
They decided that they wantedsomething more quote unquote
(05:45):
commercial.
And she wanted more spiritual,more like mystical.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
It was more, it was more, I wouldn't call it like
gothic because it wasn't gothic.
It was like modern gothic.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Because they had like the ravens and the fog and
all the things the first fourepisodes of Vampire Diaries had
before everybody was like, Whatis a crow?
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
A random crow.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
That's why I have my five-episode rule because of the
vampire diaries, because thefirst five episodes are so
embarrassingly bad.
We were gonna watch it no matterwhat, though.
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Because one thing about us, we like to be the
people that if we read the book,we're those assholes that even
if it's trash, especiallyactually, especially if it's
trash, we we love talking shit.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
It's true.
It's true.
We love talking shit during amovie.
You people would hate to see uscome.
Watching movies with us.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Hate it.
But what was that?
What was that thing with thesci-fi theater?
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Oh, Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Yeah, that's us.
SPEAKER_02 (06:51):
We're the silhouette sitting in front of you just
talking shit, and we don't care.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Sometimes you get a good movie theater though, and
you're like, everybody's talkingshit.
Those are the best nights, likeeverybody's in on the joke.
It's so great.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Movie theaters are so dead now.
Oh, yeah.
When I went to see uh what did Ijust Did you see Sinners in the
Theater?
I did see Sinners in Theaters,but that wasn't the last movie I
saw.
Must not have been that goodbecause I don't remember.
Sinners was great.
Sinners was amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
All right, vampire diaries.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Yes.
So yeah, so I found out shedidn't actually own the rights
to those characters.
So she didn't lose them.
But I will say she was great atmonetizing it anyway because
when they basically kicked herto the curb and Julie Pleck
started writing the novels aswell as directing the show, uh,
she just went on Kindle Worldsand started writing fanfiction
(07:43):
of her own characters the wayshe wanted it to go.
So she was still monetizing herwork.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
She just How do you get money from fanfic?
I thought you can't get moneyfor fanfics.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Okay, so Kindle Worlds, which is now gone, it's
defunct, but basically Amazonmade deals with certain like one
of them was the vampire diaries.
I'm trying to think of like Ican't remember the others, but
say, like if somebody wanted towrite like Avatar fanfic or
whatever, they would go to thepublishing house and be like, we
want to license the ability tobasically pay people to write
(08:15):
fanfic for this world orwhatever.
SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
Then then they have to pay them for it, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
No.
You have to pay the publisherfor it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
I'm sure what was happening is that like Amazon
gets a cut, you know, of myroyalties.
I'm sure Amazon was getting acut, the publisher was getting a
cut, and then the author wasgetting whatever pennies were
left over, essentially.
Yeah.
You need to pick it up with yourbutt cheeks.
So I think that's how theymanaged to get away with it.
(08:43):
But honestly, I don't know whythey just I think they got rid
of it when they decided theywere gonna do Kindle Vela, which
is like their serial platform,was their serial platform that's
gone too now.
But like where you would releaselike an episode a week like I do
with like um the night moversand natural bonds.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
But that makes sense to me because you're the author,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
So well, yeah, no, these were all these, yeah, it
was all like original stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
But that's the thing about you being indie.
Nobody can just tell somebodythey can do that.
I think that's because you ownyour your people, which is good
because you made them up in yourbrain.
Yes.
I did, which is crazy.
One of the moms asked me becauseshe knows, oh, I don't know.
I told her I'm a uh I do authorservices.
I don't even know what I do.
And she goes, Oh, are you awriter?
(09:26):
And I was like, No, girl, I canbarely put together a text
message.
I don't know the plot from thebeginning to the end of my text
message.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
I'm so burnt out after doing like that whole 13
Nights of Halloween and like theThey loved it though.
They loved 13 Nights ofHalloween.
Well, I've added like sixstories for the release for the
villains and vigilantesanthology, which is all the
stories kind of like bundledtogether, which means I've
written 80,000 words in the lastthree weeks, which is an entire
book, and I'm so tired.
(10:06):
Back to the vampire daries.
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
Oh shit.
Is it canon that most peoplehate the main character of
Vampire Daries?
Because I did not hate her inthe books.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
I didn't hate her in the books either.
SPEAKER_02 (10:17):
Fucking hated her in the show.
I was like, this whiny,sanctimonious, high horse bitch.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
And what's so funny is I know that it wasn't Nina
Duv that I didn't like because Iloved her as Catherine.
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
I like, yeah.
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
So it's like sometimes you get an actress
playing a part, and you're justlike, I don't like her, not the
part.
I think it wasn't that at all.
Like, I think Nina Dubrov wasgreat.
I think she did an amazing job.
Like, she speaks like what wasit?
Pol what was she speaking in theshow?
Polish?
Like, she's no Czechazolakian.
Like, she's like, she actuallyspeaks the language.
SPEAKER_02 (10:56):
Um, and I thought all of the backstory and the
lore was fantastic, but yeah,I'm just like, she was so she
was so whiny in the show, sowhiny, and so she was like the
morality police.
You're surrounded by vampiresand werewolves and witches.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
That's funny and other shit is that Matt and her
were the exact same person,except Matt got so much shit.
Everybody openly hated Matt,like as a character, they just
hated him.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
If she didn't want vampire dick, she would have
been a fucking vampire hunter.
Yeah, that's she was racistagainst him, but then she kind
of wanted to fuck them.
She fetishized them.
Wait, I'm making connectionshere.
Who would she have voted for in2016?
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Yes, than non-Vampire Elena.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Vampire Elena was better, especially when she
turned off her uh her empathy,right?
What is that thing?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah, when her her switch, when she yeah, when her
and Caroline were both peakvampire, like when they went on
that binge, I was just like,this is great.
This is like the real girlbonding, right?
This is weird girl bondingslutting it up, and eating them.
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
This is literally girlhood, yeah.
Killing men, fucking them, andthen murdering them, like
praying mantises.
As God intended.
As God intended, as God shewould want this.
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
I think she would.
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
But but and then uh okay, so another thing about
this show, and another thing,they were orphans, right?
Oh yeah, because of the caraccident.
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
Theoretically, they were orphans, but both her
parents were still alive,remember?
Her uncle was her father, andthen her mother Oh, I forgot her
mother was yeah, because theywent way out of game.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Okay, so they went way, yeah, they went way out.
Fuck Alaric all all the wayforever.
But okay, to be fair, Alaric wasa great fucking character.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
I loved Alaric until I realized that the guy who
plays Alaric is a fuckingmonster.
Yes.
Now he's ruined Alaric for me.
So whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
Yeah, because he was a decent character.
Also, Vampire.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Top tier.
Top tier.
Yeah, oh I'm just saying.
Like, ah, also you're not I'mnot above the incest of Damon
and Swords.
That's all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
Also, I feel like vampire diars made a lot of shit
up, like the switch, themorality switch, or whatever.
I've never heard of that in anyother vampire lore.
They're just like we need areason why all of a sudden we're
just killing people.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
We need them to have a berserker mode.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
I need them to go turbo slut on these bitches.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
I need, but we need a reason.
We had to have the moralityswitch because it was the only
way to justify why nobody murkedDamon in the first season.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Yeah, and and for Alina to go, Stefan, please,
please, Stefan, it's me.
And I'm sorry, it's me.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
The most unbelievable storyline in the
vampire diaries is Stefan aslike some sort of just like
monster.
Because I'm sorry, I just cannotpicture him to it at the time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Also, them being together doesn't make any sense
either.
Sorry.
It doesn't make any sense.
What's the name of the originalsguy that I like?
Her why they abandoned that, Iwill truly is it because she
didn't want to do originals?
I don't know, because that wouldhave been so cute.
Yeah.
No, I think Grumpy Sunshine.
(14:54):
I love Grumpy Sunshine.
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
It's the best trope, but also it's like the good
girl, bad boy, like turning himinto a kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
So hot.
And his brother, too.
Okay.
Elijah's my at the same damntime.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Elijah was like chef's kiss.
Like Klaus, I get it.
I get why people think like he'shot.
I would Eiffel tower them.
But Elijah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
I would take him to Paris, baby.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
There's something so hot about a guy who's just like
super restrained and looks soput together all the time, but
then just like will flip thatswitch and murder 18 people
because you like must hisgirlfriend's.
SPEAKER_02 (15:35):
Or like when he's mean to his brother, and then
like, but someone else is meanto his brother, and he's like,
ah, I'm gonna murder 200.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
Yeah, he's like, this is not hard.
I really didn't want to getblood on this shirt, but this is
what I gotta do.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
I think I just like the setting of like New Orleans,
and I like my vampires old asfuck.
I like my vampires like I needthe I need the CEO of vampire.
You know what I mean?
Take me to the top.
Yeah, I think that's what Ilike.
I think like the Voltaire, Iwould in Twilight, I would have
been in the Volteri.
I'm like, who's the VIP in thisbitch?
That's where I'm trying to beat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:10):
I think Rebecca got the short end of the stick as
far as the vampire diaries goes,and and the originals.
Talk about somebody who just waskicked constantly while she was
down.
I don't know what class.
They put that bitch to sleep.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
They were like, you know what?
You're going back to sleep.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
They they staked Rebecca was almost comical by
the time.
Like, did she go to maternity?
I just want the people just likeI just want to go to prom and
they're like, Fuck you, back tosleep for you.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
She even rolled her eyes.
Should that be this time to gonight night for a hundred years?
It's rude.
It's so rude.
It's the patriarchy, and she hadto live it over and over.
And she just wanted to have alittle good time.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Finding out that Stefan gave her necklace to
Elena.
SPEAKER_02 (16:56):
Remember?
Stefan is the actually Stefan isthe villain.
It really is.
And and then how they endedVampire Diaries.
What?
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
When they tossed Stefan into the the river, like
still alive in that box.
I was like, good read.
SPEAKER_02 (17:17):
I need a little more closure than that.
Like, what?
I thought they ended it sosloppily.
They're like, and then we threwStefan in the river.
And we Stefan shed its hair inthe woods.
Do they kill Stefan in the endof him?
They put him in.
No, they think they put him inthe the cave.
I don't remember.
The witch dies.
The witch dies.
unknown (17:37):
Wait.
SPEAKER_02 (17:38):
Blocked it.
Wait.
The people the people arescreaming.
That's not out.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
No, that was definitely like the whole
kicking him into the oceandidn't last because they went
and got him, but which is alsohow do you find okay?
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
The vampire diars ended with Stefan's sacrifice to
kill Catherine and destroy hell.
I don't remember that.
Elena waking up from her magicalslumber.
Damon and Elena returning tolive a long human life.
I remember that together beforefinding peace in the afterlife.
Other characters also foundtheir own happy endings, such as
(18:11):
Bonnie traveling the world andcan't wait.
I thought Bonnie died.
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
No, Bonnie didn't die.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Enzo died.
Okay.
Which pissed me off.
Traveling the world and Carolineand Alaric opening a boarding
school for young supernaturalbeings.
Which was the spin-off.
I never watched it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
It was actually it was pretty decent.
It was I mean, it was more whatdo you call it?
Like a little hokier.
Definitely felt like it was morefor kids than it was like
Hogwarts?
SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
Like Hogwarts, but for vampires.
SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Kind of, it wasn't quite that, like I don't know.
It definitely had that youngadult boarding school vibe that
like you like we used to love askids to read about.
Yeah.
It definitely had that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
But I'm still reading about schools, but now
they're like magical dragons andthey be fucking.
So I don't know.
I I still like a school vibe.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
I think I think it's just a universal thing.
Like I think girl, I think girlsspecifically really loved the
idea of a boarding school.
Like get together It's true.
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
You're writing a series about a boarding school,
aren't you?
For for assassins.
SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
No, I do write a book about a school for
assassins because Hey, what's itcalled?
SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
Where could they find it?
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
It's very gay.
Shocker, I know.
SPEAKER_03 (19:33):
Shock, shock, shock.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Yeah, no.
The watch, but the watch didn'tcome from my love of boarding
schools.
The watch came because I wasobsessed with the graphic novel
Deadly Class.
SPEAKER_02 (19:43):
Oh, just so you know, I bought a month of
Peacock on your account with mywith my money.
You should watch.
I don't want to make my ownaccount because I was already
logged into yours.
But uh all her fault.
No it's just show, and I had toI had to turn it off yesterday
because I couldn't stop watchingit.
It's so good.
I haven't liked a show in years.
(20:03):
Uh Vampire Diaries?
Vampire Diaries.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Are you guys doing this care?
They know.
They just know.
If they're still tuning in, theyknow that this is they are
tuning in because I get theemails.
Yeah, exactly.
The emails that are like, youhit a new milestone.
And I'm like, holy shit.
Like, I can't believe peopleactually listen to us.
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (20:22):
Thanks, guys.
I can believe it because we'rehilarious.
Anyway, like I said, originalsbetter than Vampire Daries.
But I I watched it all.
The WB was such a loved it.
I don't know what happened withtheir or what happened, My
Little Dancing Frog.
Where did we go?
Well, it became the CW.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
As soon as it became the CW, then it like things were
definitely different.
I mean, we still had we hadsupernatural.
Yeah, you know, like it was agood time for paranormal
stories, you know.
And it was like you were comingoff that post-Twilight, like you
know, we're Vampire Diaries wasbefore Twilight for me.
(21:01):
Well, it was for me too, becausewe read the books, but yeah, I
don't know, guys.
SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
We're gonna be hipsters right now.
Like I I knew about it before itwas cool.
So before before before it was aTV show.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
The Vampire Diaries is a good is a good indication
of like how you do have to pivotthough, like when it comes to
because you have to think aboutthe fact that the vampire
diaries came out in the 90s, theearly 90s.
So when they rebooted uh in like2006, like it's a whole
different time.
Hence the Ravens and the FogMachines did not work in the
(21:38):
first five episodes.
And I'm sure they saw theratings and were like, all
right, we gotta regroup, wegotta regroup, we gotta, we
gotta figure this shit out.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Steve, get the fog machine out of here.
What?
We still have 30 days on therental.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
So I think that especially like as an author,
you kind of have to follow youraudience a little bit.
So much of my stuff has comefrom my actual readers versus my
own brain.
Like they'll make connectionsthat I didn't, and then I'm
like, oh shit, okay, well, nowthey're expecting it, and now
they think that I'm the one whoactually engineered this.
(22:14):
Like, I'm just so And we letthem believe that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:16):
And I'm just and or she'll comment things and she'll
be like, maybe in the future.
And I already know this bitch islike, open my notes app.
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Oh, please be so desperate mid book because I
don't plot anything.
Like, I'm a I'm a pantser, asthey call it.
Like, I get so that's what theycall it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
I'm calling the police.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Are you a plotter or a bit?
Lying by the seat of my pants.
Um but yeah, so like I don'tpre-like plan anything.
I just write and whateverhappens, happens.
Sometimes I get stuck and I justgo into my Patreon group and I'm
just like, hey, if you guyscould write the book yourselves,
what would you want to seehappen to these characters?
SPEAKER_02 (22:57):
I mean, I already know what I'm gonna do.
SPEAKER_01 (22:58):
Yeah, but I'm just curious.
I mean, I've already written it.
I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_02 (23:01):
Like, quick pull, quick pull.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Yeah.
Well, and like I they begged meto write this short story about
these two characters that willeventually have their own book.
And now they're like, okay,well, that was too good.
Now you need to just put yourother stuff on hold and write
these two books first.
And I'm like, but that's thatwasn't that wasn't my plan.
Like, I have two other booksthat I have to finish first.
(23:25):
Yes, Daddy, no problem.
But now I'm seriouslycontemplating, like, okay, do I
just put the watch on hold, puta pin in it, finish the last
three books for Jericho's boys,and then go back.
SPEAKER_02 (23:37):
Well, what are they what are they liking?
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
I I I get more I think Jericho's Boys is uh They
like Jericho's Boys because itstill has a huge tie to the
Mulvaneys, which is of courselike my most popular series.
So there's a lot of cameos,there's a lot of tie-in, not so
much with the watch.
The watch is almost kind of likeits own entity that just kind of
has a spin-off aspect.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Why why don't you pluck one of those Mulvaney?
SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
They are, they are like two of the Mulvaneys
literally are in the watch.
SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
Teachers over there or something?
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Okay, okay, but it's just like it's not the enough
family interaction.
They like that that the banter.
Anything our Thanksgiving isbasically every day at the
Mulvaney house.
Like Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (24:23):
Are their kids old enough to get some books now?
Are they grown up?
Are they assassins?
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
No, they're definitely not old enough, but
they will be.
I will age their ass.
Do whatever you want.
I will age the ass.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
You you're like me and The Sims.
Age up, bitch.
Time for a book.
I just gotta finish all thebooks that I'm currently
finishing in the anyway.
Uh this is good for editor backto vampire diary.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
But we I think as authors, you definitely have to
be willing to kind of pivot andchange direction.
But also, I think that you haveto be able to take things as it
comes, like LJ Smith writing herown fanfic when she lost the
rights to the characters.
That Patreon is great for that.
I think it's a good way tore-monetize your own IP without
(25:08):
having to do the whole work ofwriting a whole other book.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Like, yeah, the short stories and stuff they
love.
SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
Yeah, exactly.
And I was actually talking toanother author last night about
how you can take like one thingand repurpose it in four or five
different ways.
You know, like I do my shortstories and then I bundle them
all and they become anthologies,and then like so it's Patreon
content and then it becomes abook, and then it's like family
(25:36):
and felonies.
They love yeah, family andfelonies.
Now it's villains andvigilantes.
There's a murder and mistletoeone that's gonna be done at
Christmas time.
SPEAKER_02 (25:43):
I was just gonna say, are you gonna do a
Christmas one?
Oh my god, we're like me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
It's almost like we're related.
SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
Oh my god, hive brain, hive brain.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
But yeah, so like the whole like the idea of it is
is like, so I'm you gettingPatreon content by releasing the
stories on Patreon first.
I'm getting newsletter contentbecause I'm doing the main story
in my newsletter and then bonuscontent on Patreon, and then I'm
bundling it all and I'm doing itas an anthology.
So like I'm making money off ofthat in like three separate
ways.
(26:13):
So I think that at least that'sone thing that LJ Smith got to
do was that she literally got tostill make money off of because
I mean she might not havecreated the characters, but she
definitely made them.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Like she's the one who they gave her a shell and
she breathed like exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
Like, and I guess that used to be super popular in
the 90s, like this work for hirething.
SPEAKER_02 (26:39):
I've heard of it, I've heard of it where they give
you like an idea, and then a lotof them end up being like
hallmarky type.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Yeah, I hear that there's a whole there's like
writer groups, like secretwriter groups, where people sell
their like outlines for stories,yeah, you know, and they like
are like I can't write this.
I heard about it in uh YellowFace.
SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
Yeah, Yellow Face by RF Quang is about a writer.
It's a very good book if youhaven't read it.
But yeah, she she was a topwriter and then she kind of
falls from grace from doing fromdoing some shady shit, and
that's what she ends up havingto do.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
She has to be like not a ghostwriter, but and
that's the thing, because it'slike it's somehow different than
being a ghostwriter.
Because I think being aghostwriter is kind of like a
lot of times it's forcelebrities for some like
somebody who has like a memoirtype story they want to tell.
Yeah, you know, or even like alot of times celebrities will
have ghostwriters for fictionnovels that they like have an
(27:34):
idea for because they know theirname will sell, even if they
don't have necessarily thetalent to write story.
But like work for hire, I guess,was more just really common.
Like it's like, oh, you're agood writer, here's a whole
story outline, just write thatfor us.
SPEAKER_03 (27:49):
And if it's an easy check.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
Yeah, and that's the thing, it's a one-time check.
Like it's a you know, and that'swhy she didn't have the rights
to the vampire, because it wasjust a work for hire.
Here's your check, thanks foryour time, have a nice day.
But I think that the problemwith that is I get too attached
to my characters.
Like if somebody had handed mealso, you're too controlling.
SPEAKER_02 (28:12):
Could you imagine?
That's why you could never bewith a publisher.
She, you for whatever you don'tlike being the boss, you do like
being the boss of your own shit.
Like, no one's gonna tell youwhat to do with your boys.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
Of course, I it's always an A plus or an F, full
stop.
So if I'm getting that F, it'sgonna be because of me.
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
You know what I mean?
I don't want to have the boysAnd then she's gonna hermit, and
then you're gonna hermit for amonth.
It's true, yeah.
So everybody tell her what agood job she's doing, please.
That's why I don't read myreviews.
Like, I like nobody shouldsomebody's who's getting in
trouble right now.
Someone's getting canceled fordoing that.
Tell us in the comments ifthere's comments.
Can you comment?
I don't know.
I mean you can't okay.
(28:58):
On Spotify comment, I willfigure out how to check it.
There's somebody, there's anauthor right now who's getting
canceled for going to readerspaces and and commenting on
critiques and reviews.
And it's a it's a traditional,it's a traditional well-known
author.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
And that's crazy because you would think the
publisher would have just beenlike, shut your fucking mouth.
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Don't shut up, just shut up, shut up.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah, you're just readers are allowed to talk.
But somebody once said otherpeople's opinions about me are
none of my business, and that'sthat's what I live by.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
Like also, they're not writing books.
There's books that I've readthat I thought were dog shit.
Okay, and I'm allowed to thinkthey're dog shit.
I think we we just talk so muchshit about 50 shades of gray for
a full hour.
Yeah, I don't think she's gonnalisten to our podcast and cry
into her billions of dollarssilk pillowcase, her silk
pillowcase padded with hundreddollar bills.
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
Well, I mean, the thing is is like books are
subjective, like you know, Ialways used to like.
Like go and look at my favoritebooks, one star reviews, to make
myself feel better.
Because I'm like, that's anamazing book.
And if somebody looked at it andwas like, that's shit, then like
you can't please everybody, youknow?
You just you just can't.
You can't please everybody.
(30:14):
So you just have to make and notevery genre is for everybody.
SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
What are you comfort dark romance?
What do you call dark romance?
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
My very first book that I wrote as an MM author was
Daddy Kink, right?
So I Where the Devil Don't Go?
Uh no, that Intoxicating, thefirst Elite book.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
Oh, is that the first book you wrote?
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Yeah, that's the first book I wrote.
And then Well, in this genre.
Well, yeah, and then I switchedand I did disciplinary action as
a standalone for a short storythat I eventually expanded.
And then I went back and Ifinished the Elite series.
But yeah, Intoxicating was DaddyKink.
And I remember getting atwo-star review, and it was it
started out with I don't knowwhy I agreed to read this.
(30:54):
I'm just not in the mood forDaddy Kink right now.
And I was just like, I don'tknow why you agreed to read it
either then.
unknown (30:59):
What the fuck?
SPEAKER_02 (31:00):
Sometimes you don't know you're not in the mood for
Daddy Kinks.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
You're in a bad mood.
SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
Like, I don't really like I don't like gays and I
don't like Daddy Kinks, but I'mgonna read a Daddy Kink roman.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Yeah.
So like you and you get a lot ofthat.
Like, especially when there'slike reviewers, um, you know,
like NetGalley, you can ask toread an art copy and make and
leave a review or whatever.
And some of these people onNetGalle, they're like, I hate
romanticy, and then they sign upfor romanticy and then they
trash it.
And I'm just like, what do youget out of this?
SPEAKER_02 (31:34):
Like, and what's to hate about romanticy?
We're just having a good time asa romanticy girl.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
But you saw did you see that girl who literally
tagged the author in a horriblereview?
And she's like, Your book istrash, and she's like, it
belongs in the garbage.
Like she was nasty for no otherreason than to be nasty.
Was it an indie or was it a bigauthor?
(31:59):
I want to say it's an indieauthor, but I'm not sure.
That's terrible.
I just thought fallout from iton threads, like everybody was
freaking out.
Because at first people werelike, Oh, well, it sucks to tag
the author in a bad review, butthis was not a critical review.
This was just being mean for thesake of being mean and then
being like, I can do whatever Iwant, I can say whatever I want.
(32:21):
And I'm sorry, but if you tag mein a shitty review and you talk
to me like that, then yeah, I'mprobably going to post something
saying something back to you.
Yeah, it would be the only timeI ever did something like that
because I just post it.
SPEAKER_02 (32:32):
I'm just gonna repost.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
But if you're asking me, like you're asking me to
look at it, you're asking me tolisten to your opinion.
So then you're gonna listen tomy rebuttal, and it's gonna
sound a lot like, hey kids, whydon't you eat my ass?
Write a book, come exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (32:48):
Can't wait to read your novel.
What's your what's your good wasyour great American novel coming
out?
Charity.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Some people just are so mean for the sake of being
mean, and I don't reallyunderstand that.
Like I get critiquing somepeople.
SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
I actually don't even do bad reviews on
goodreads.
Oh, nope, there was one, and Idon't ever write words.
I'm not a writer.
I was like, what you you dowrite words.
I've seen that.
I don't.
I on my uh on my on my reviews,it was a it was a thriller, but
really it was just torture porn.
And I could barely get throughit.
(33:23):
And I and I get through thepedophile stuff, and like I read
a lot of the not I mean likethrillers because my characters
it yeah, bad things, but it waslike on and on and on.
I think it was called Oh, Allthe Pretty Girls.
I've heard of that book.
Yeah, people were raving aboutit.
I like a thriller, it was crazy,but as you expect, okay.
(33:43):
Like I I'm down, not down forit, but like I I'm not new to
it, I'm true to it.
Like I've been here in the genrebefore, you know.
But they went into too muchdetail for no reason, right?
Like, there's I don't need toknow how this sounded and like
all the that's Stephen Kingshit.
I'm not a Stephen King shit.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
I don't that's part of the reason I think that I
don't go too into detail withlike the bad stuff.
Like, I give you just enoughinformation for you to
understand why somebody ismessed up.
I don't do torture porn, I don'tlike trauma porn, I don't like
people who who seem to like getoff on the details of that.
(34:23):
Yeah, but like if I think I seesomething that's really toxic or
that might trigger somebody, butthere's no warning about it, I
might leave a bad review.
But it's rare.
I well now it's rare because Inever fucking read.
But back when I was likereading, you know, 10 books a
week, like it was it wasdefinitely more prominent that I
was.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
You should just move on, but yeah, like you know, you
close it, you go, and then youmove on.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
And I'm on my way.
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
You already got my $20.
You got my$20.
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
I didn't steal it because I don't do that because
I'm a good person.
Yeah, and you know, and that'swhat kills me.
It's like I get some like peoplewho return books, ebooks after
they read them.
That makes me so mad becausethere was never a time before
e-readers where you could justbring a book back and be like,
this book was shitty.
I want my money back.
SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
So come on, stop it.
Cut it out.
So being cut out of the book.
Stop reading the e-books andtelling me you thought it was an
audiobook.
We can see it there.
SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
She said her piece.
SPEAKER_02 (35:23):
I doubt that anybody that's listening to this would
do that.
No, they definitely wouldn't.
They're definitely not.
You guys are for the curiousthings.
These are my diehards.
But anyway, bad.
Vampire Dires.
SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
The Vampire Darius.
I'm trying to think.
Like, because I I think they II'm probably the only one who
watched all three, like theVampire Darius, the originals,
and then Legacies kind ofafterwards.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
Yeah, because I think I even I think I even
ditched the originals.
I don't think it was because ofthe originals.
I think I just got busy orsomething and didn't come back
to it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
What I did was I ended up watching Legacies, like
the first two episodes, and thengoing back and finishing the
originals because I realizedthat I had missed like the whole
last season because I didn'tunderstand how Klaus had died.
And I was like, wait, how iseverybody dead?
Like, what do you meaneverybody's dead?
And I was just like, This isfucking bullshit.
(36:14):
What?
SPEAKER_02 (36:15):
And how is she she was a baby five minutes ago?
You took you took a nap and youwoke up and you're like,
everyone's fucking dead!
SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
It literally was like that.
I was like, Elijah dead, Klausdead, all of the uncles dead,
Rebecca dead.
It's like, what the fuck ishappening here?
Rebecca's so beautiful.
Like that actress should havebeen more popular.
SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
She was so beautiful, Rebecca.
SPEAKER_01 (36:38):
Oh, yes, gorgeous.
And the girl who played Haleywas beautiful too.
And they were both in and theywere both in H2O.
They both played mermaids andH2O.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
Well are they Australian Australian?
Oh, I didn't know that.
I Kaylee, my formerstepdaughter, she used to love
that show.
Mick used to love it.
Oh, Mikaila liked it, yeah.
Like where they get like alittle bit of water on them and
then they have to be, but thendidn't they work somewhere where
there was water?
I don't know.
There was a lot of fear ofgetting sprinkled with water.
SPEAKER_01 (37:07):
I only remember parts where they were like on
the dock and that it was kind ofhomoerotic between Rebecca's
character and Haley's character.
Like one thing we're gonna do ismake a Well, there was just a
lot of weird tension between thetwo of them.
And then when they they're I uhfrom what I understand, they're
actual friends in real life now,probably because they've been
doing shows together for solong.
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
Yeah, they're force proximity.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
Exactly.
Nothing check off.
Write them fanfics or fanfics.
SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
Write themselves, baby.
But yeah, like write that down,readers or you know writers.
SPEAKER_01 (37:40):
These people are writers, but yeah, like so they
they knew each other for a longtime, I guess, but there
definitely seemed to be some.
As far as I'm concerned, therewasn't enough gay in the vampire
diaries.
I will say that.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
It was the time.
There wasn't gay.
It wasn't enough gay anywhere.
Who was gay in that show?
SPEAKER_01 (38:00):
Not until season like five or six when the twins
do you remember when Kai showsup?
He gets Bonnie and Damon gettrapped in that world with that
fucking evil, crazy dude ChrisWood plays him.
I don't remember.
I don't know, it's been so longsince I watched the show.
(38:21):
You want to talk about a perfectvillain.
Chris Wood, sexy as fuck,absolutely unhinged in every
conceivable way, nothingredeemable about him, stabbed
his pregnant sister when she waspregnant with twins.
Like he did not give a singlefuck.
Okay, but was so sarcastic andso unintentionally funny that
(38:46):
you couldn't help but kind ofget excited when he showed up on
the screen.
Because you knew it was gonna bechaotic and bloody, and you were
probably gonna be mad when itwas over.
But he just had such greatpresence that, like, the minute
he showed up, I was like, Oh no,here we go.
But he's and he's gay.
Um, he's not, but his brother islike so he has twin siblings,
(39:11):
one's a girl, one's a boy, andthey go to school with Elena,
and that's kind of how like shegets involved in the whole
thing.
But damn, they went to schoolfor a long ass time.
They were in high, they were incollege at this point.
This was uh that's how long itwas.
That's why I'm saying it'sprobably season five.
It was after she became avampire.
Um still go to college, butyeah, exactly.
(39:33):
You can still be a vampire andgo to college as long as you
have a special magic ring, yeah.
A special magic ring and youdon't mind using like caprice on
blood bags.
SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
They use that trope in every vampire thing.
They're like, uh, how do we getit so that they're not actually
eating people blood bags?
SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
But it's so funny to watch them just like stab a
straw into that blood bag, likeit's a caprice and it makes me
laugh.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Like how they don't eat food, but they're they
always find a way for thesevampires to get a little drunk.
Always.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Well, yeah, because like drunk vampires, who
wouldn't love that?
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Drunk, sexy vampires?
But I like them a littleandrogynous, you know, a little
more like uh interview with avampire type dude.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
That's my biggest beef with with the vampire
diaries, is it was not gayenough for me.
And I'm sorry, but if you'vebeen on this planet 200 years,
don't tell me you didn't try adick at least once.
Or listen, they'll say they did.
These men are Damon they'retrying to Damon and Enzo, like
okay, first off, Damon andAlaric, like I said, a little
(40:36):
too much tension there.
But Damon and Enzo, there wasvery much a wink wink, like
nudge nudge, like like implyingthat they had something more
going on than they were saying.
But Enzo and Bonnie weresupposed to be endgame, and I
think that's where they lost me.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Is I didn't like their uh storyline with Bonnie
really at all.
SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
Well, because Julie Pleck allegedly hates Cat
Graham, and some people say it'srace related, some people say
they just never got along, butit was like her personal mission
to make sure that Cat Graham'scharacter was miserable all the
time.
Interesting.
(41:19):
And she was completelyunderutilized because Cat Graham
speaks like seven fuckinglanguages, and she's a singer.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Yeah, and I liked the witch vibe that they did,
like but they underutilize likeshe what she's the only witch,
her and her mom.
That doesn't really make anysense.
SPEAKER_01 (41:38):
Once you hear about the beef Julie Pleck had with
Kat Graham, then you kind oflike go back and you watch the
show with a whole different likeYeah, you know, and obviously
Kat Graham and uh the guy whoplayed Alaric did not get along.
Yeah, um yeah, he always hadbeef with her, and he was
apparently very, very hostile toher on set all the time.
(41:58):
Which is awful.
SPEAKER_02 (41:59):
Well, that makes sense.
Well, it makes perfect.
Well, yes, it makes sense as faras like I'm not justifying it.
I don't think it's good, but itmakes sense.
It definitely makes I believegirl, I believe you.
I know you're listening, Ibelieve you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
It's just crazy because I loved Alaric's
character, and then it turnedout he was more like when he
played Warner and LegallyBlonde.
SPEAKER_02 (42:18):
Oh, yeah.
What, like it's hard?
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
He played such a douche in that movie.
Yeah, just fucking person.
That's why I stopped watchingLegacies because I heard all of
this stuff about him and I sawhow he was behaving.
I'm not gonna support that shit.
SPEAKER_02 (42:33):
Yeah, you know who's so funny online is the guy who
plays uh Stefan.
Oh, what the hell is his name?
Paul not Walker.
I don't know why I was gonna sayR P R I P R P.
He's so funny.
Yeah, nobody takes was itStefusy?
(42:54):
Like he takes in Paul Wesley sohard.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Paul Wesley.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, he definitely he he'sin on the joke.
And him and Dame, uh him and IanSummerholder have a whiskey
company.
They do, which I think isthey're just goofy boys, they're
just silly goofy boys, and andthey don't they don't mind being
hippy-dippy trippy, like veryyeah, yeah, yeah.
(43:18):
Well, he used to be with theElena chick.
Oh, yeah, no, him and NitaDeBro.
I think a lot of that obviouslyis why they're like the sexual
tension between them.
It's really hard to pretendyou're in love with somebody
else when you're literally yourboyfriend's right there.
SPEAKER_02 (43:35):
And he and that's and that's your boyfriend, and
that's also your boyfriend.
I just want two boyfriends, andI want my boyfriends to be
boyfriends.
Um, is that too much to ask?
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
But Paul Wesley's wife also played in the show.
SPEAKER_02 (43:49):
Which one?
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
She played the doctor in later seasons, a
doctor who knows about vampires.
I remember that.
There's probably it should bethe blood bag supplier.
Yes, exactly.
There were so many episodes ofthat show, and I used to like it
used to be my comfort show, likeit used to be the one that just
played all the time in thebackground.
And then, like, I don't know, Ijust woke up one morning and I
(44:12):
was just like, I can't do it.
And then I found another comfortshow, which turned out to be
Buzzfeed Supernatural.
Yes, I know.
So I don't know, but yeah, forthe longest time, I would say
probably three years the VampireDiaries was running in the
background of my life, like24-7.
SPEAKER_02 (44:28):
That was me with Parks and Rec.
I don't know why.
SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
Oh god, I know, because I used to sleep in your
bed and you had that shitblasting like you were my
mother.
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Like I have never heard somebody who can sleep
with a I'm the type of personthat like don't let my dreams
don't leave my dreams up tochance.
Put a plot line in there,because this shit, this should
be this too too much, too toomuch.
Don't let it do too much.
Yeah, no shit.
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
But I just I don't know, I think that Damon and
Elena were actually like thatperfect couple because it's what
every girl kind of like secretlyloves, is just like you know,
the bad boy, but also like theone who's only nice to you, just
you.
He would literally burn down theworld just for you.
SPEAKER_02 (45:15):
Yeah, just for you.
We all love it.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Yeah, you can't get enough of that trope.
It writes itself, and then alsoStefan was such a martyr, he was
such a so was she, so was she,though.
So is she.
Oh my god.
But imagine how inseparable thetwo of them would have been as a
like a long-term couple, theywould be the couple you avoided
at every fucking party.
Stefan and Caroline?
Come on, that was silly.
(45:40):
Stefan and Caroline were likesuch good buddies, you know what
I mean?
Like, I wish they had just leftit as a friendship, but yet
again, because it means a guyand a girl can't be friends
without one of them wanting tofuck each other, apparently.
Like, so when when that wholething went down, but honestly,
MVP is Caroline.
She bagged, she banged everysingle guy in that show.
(46:02):
She fucked every single guy inthat show, and honestly, true,
fucking good for you, girl.
I would too.
I would too at the same damntime, at the same time.
And I remember just sittingthere one day going, wait a
minute.
She's literally fucked everyone.
(46:24):
She's the good girl.
SPEAKER_02 (46:25):
Yeah, don't forget, she's the goody too.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
But you know the best thing about Caroline is
she's such a type A personality,right?
Like, if you needed shit done,Caroline was the one that
everybody called.
SPEAKER_02 (46:34):
I loved Caroline.
I loved her.
I hated her.
I wanted her to my yeah, yeah,yeah.
She was hella annoying in seasonone.
They were all a little bitannoying in season one.
They were all a little bitannoying.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Caroline had the most the best redemption arc for
sure.
SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Her be when she first found out she got turned
into a vampire was one of myfavorite reactions.
She was so fucking annoyed.
SPEAKER_01 (46:55):
Yeah, she really was so annoyed by that people
thought that she couldn't likecontrol herself.
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Yeah.
And she was annoyed.
SPEAKER_01 (47:05):
She was different.
SPEAKER_02 (47:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She she wanted to do high schoollike to the most.
SPEAKER_01 (47:11):
Yeah, she would be a Cullen.
She would be the one who didhigh school over and over and
over and over again.
If she just had she could do itwith all of her friends over and
over again, exactly.
She had her built-in click, shewould have literally just done
high school forever.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, she's one of my favorites.
Yeah, and Klaus, obviously.
Call me.
I liked Vicky, Matt's sister.
SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
I wish they had kept her around a little bit more.
SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
Yeah.
Well, I I saw Vicky as a realperson.
You know, she was more real thanthe rest of these.
Who's that fucking up tight inhigh school?
Yeah.
Like these kids were walkingaround like they were 40 years
old, like, drugs, don't dodrugs, like, do some drugs, grow
up, come out.
SPEAKER_01 (47:54):
It was weird that she was hooking up with Matt,
because I think he or not Matt,Jeremy, because like what he's
supposed to be, what, 15 in theshow?
And I think she's supposed to be17, which is not a huge age gap,
but still, 15 and 17 when itcomes to a boy and a girl.
Might as well be 30 years.
But Jeremy was another one whowas like insufferable, and then
(48:16):
he became like one of myfavorite characters, and then he
became insufferable again.
SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
He's like, Oh, I want to hunt them.
Yeah, I was like, What?
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
For what do you mean you're a vampire hunter now?
Like, just just just go toalgebra.
SPEAKER_02 (48:30):
Yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (48:31):
He's an he got jacked in one of those seasons,
like when he became like thequote.
SPEAKER_02 (48:35):
He was hot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was hot.
They're all hot.
SPEAKER_01 (48:39):
I mean, they're all hot.
He's older than Elena, which isfunny as fuck to me that he
played the little brother.
SPEAKER_02 (48:45):
They all by the end of the show, they all looked 48
years old.
Yeah.
Like, graduate.
Yeah.
Go.
SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
Yeah, there was there was no.
I thought vampires don't age.
There's no age or Damon off ashigh schoolers.
SPEAKER_02 (48:58):
Well, because they put the show on a little too
long for them to not be aging.
Yeah.
Because by the end, you're like,yeah, you guys look hella
different.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
Also, Ian Summerholder has one of those
faces where it's like, you cantell early on in his life he was
like a construction worker wherehe was outdoors all the time.
And then he built like thatwhole habitat thing for like
animals and stuff.
So yeah, he's definitely aginglike somebody who was a big
thing.
We were not passing off a moral.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
Which is fine.
Neither am I, baby.
SPEAKER_01 (49:26):
Okay, neither am I.
I mean, Ian Summerholder isaging like wine.
He's great.
He looks fantastic.
I I also like the fact that hekind of just looks homeless when
he's not working and he's justlike, yeah, this is just yeah,
they both kind of look homeless.
SPEAKER_02 (49:41):
And I also like that they both interact with the fans
and they don't care that that'sall they're really known for.
SPEAKER_01 (49:46):
Well, and that's the thing.
I think it's the same thing withsupernatural.
I think they both they were alljust kind of like, we make a lot
of money to hang out with ourfriends and do this job that we
love.
Why are we acting like we needmore than this?
Like most people would kill DNRshoes.
And they love their fans becausethey get to do the same thing.
You know, like because of them.
(50:07):
They're the reason like the showlasted as long as it did.
And I think and I think thatthat's kind of like K-pop is the
same way.
Like K-pop stars love theirfans, they are extremely
possessive, extremely likeloyal, very protective of their
fans because they know howeasily they can disappear.
Like they call it the seven-yearcurse in K-pop because that's
(50:29):
how long the contracts last.
And most don't get renewed.
So like they know that at bestthey have seven years to do
this, and then hopefully theirfans will follow them into solo
careers or whatever.
So, like, you you gotta yougotta be grateful for what you
have.
And a lot of these people,especially in movie acting, I
(50:51):
think they're just always justlike, okay, I'm not Hermione
anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (50:57):
Yeah, look at my tits.
You know, I don't know if shedid that.
I don't know if she did.
I'm just saying stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
Actually, the only person I know who did that was
uh what's his name?
The one who played Harry Potter.
He got naked on stage.
He like almost immediately He ishe's like an actor.
Yeah, no, he definitely was onthe stage.
That's the nice thing, is likehe has so much money that he can
just do weird indie films forthe rest of his life, you know.
But he has a face for it.
Yeah, he does, he definitelydoes.
(51:23):
He has one of those characterfaces, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (51:26):
Character face.
If you ever say that's me, I'mgonna cry.
You know, Shannon, you have aface for character acting.
Really?
What character would that be?
SPEAKER_01 (51:35):
A beautiful woman, they say no, they say a
beautiful woman, but there'sjust certain actors that never
got like top tier.
But like, I mean, DanielRadcliffe obviously is an A-list
actor, but like there's justcertain actors you see in all
these movies, and they always dolike these epic roles, and
you're just like, why do thesepeople not get more recognition?
SPEAKER_02 (51:56):
They're like, I am a heroin addict who traveled the
world and babies children.
Yeah, yeah.
And then you're like, wow, andit's a true story.
What?
Wow.
Unless it's not and then you hadto lose 75 pounds to do it.
Whoa! Yeah, that that's theother and then you never hear
about that movie ever.
Yeah.
It just like it got shown at thecans, and yeah, exactly.
(52:19):
And they won a bunch of awards,and people were like, What is
Yeah, some guy in Manhattan'stalking about it somewhere and
in a coffee shop because he sawit.
SPEAKER_01 (52:30):
Well, I think we've exhausted this topic.
I think we had a few good pointsfor authors in there, hopefully,
somewhere along the way in ourlong rambling, whiny leave the
shop talk in there.
That's for authors too.
SPEAKER_02 (52:50):
You guys like that?
You want to hear about like her?
SPEAKER_03 (52:55):
You guys wanna sell books?
This is what it takes.
You gotta be dedicated, yougotta fucking talk about that
shit.
It's Christmas, motherfucker.
Load up that Shopify.
You got this, authors.
SPEAKER_01 (53:08):
I will say that I am reloading my Patreon course onto
the pay onto our Burned Out MusePatreon.
So if you are an author andyou're looking to finally jump
off the cliff of Patreon, I havean entire course that I'll be
dripping through our$25 tier onPatreon.
Um starting today.
(53:29):
I'm gonna put the first courseup.
It's an older course that I didlast year, but I'm gonna
repurpose it because it's got alot of good information in
there.
Um but yeah, so you can find uspatreon.com slash the burned out
muse.
You can find us anywhere atslash the Feral Phantoms Podcast
or slash the burned out muse,depending on what you're looking
for.
Um, but yeah, so we will, Idon't know what we're talking
(53:52):
about next week.
I haven't decided yet.
It'll be a surprise to all ofus.
SPEAKER_02 (53:56):
Uh it's always a surprise to me.
Yeah, I know.
I'd love to surprise you withtopics.
Like, oh I just show up.
I'm just the straight man here,I think.
SPEAKER_01 (54:06):
Never has that been more true.
Wait, am I a straight man?
SPEAKER_02 (54:12):
No, that's my nightmare.
Does it sound like a nightmare?
I mean, in this economy, itwould be nice.
SPEAKER_01 (54:18):
No shit.
All right, guys, we will see younext week.
Bye.
Bye.
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